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ddddddd
Max
24 June, 2010 13:15
I would pick Chanderpaul over M.Waugh. Massive effort by him to average nearly 50 playing for a team that has been weak for most of your career.



India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
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Birbal
01 July, 2010 21:13
Max.. you need to pick the next H2H...smiling smiley

ddddddd
Max
02 July, 2010 08:35
Ok how about: Gordon Greenidge vs Mathew Hayden?



India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!

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Birbal
02 July, 2010 16:31
Interesting.... I think there was a Hayden v. Sehwag H2H earlier.

This one is similar... it is a hard one again... especially since Hayden never had to face the Windies Pace quarter of old... but just by numbers I'd give it to Hayden marginally...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2010 16:40 by Birbal.

audioman
audioman
06 July, 2010 17:15
Quote:
Birbal
especially since Hayden never had to face the Windies Pace quarter of old...

Neither did Gordon. Hehehe.

This one, IMO, is actually a much better comparison than Sehwag and Haydos. Sure, Viru played in the same kinda era as Hayden, but his style is an unbridled mix of agression and silken touch. Greenidge and Hayden are a lot similar in the fact that, these two were more about build, power, shot-making than Viru will ever be. Hayden and Greenidge often delivered the opening salvo for their teams, a kind of dismissive plonk-my-foot-half-a-mile-down opening that set the mood for their teams as well as the opposition.

A large part of Greenidge's success should be attributed to his opening partner in such hineous crime, Desmond Haynes. Haynes was actually the quality player among the two. He had the basics of an opener well covered - he could cover drive all day long and you would still be enthralled. He had a very good back and across technique that suitably helped him handle the outswinger that was the most popular weapon of his time. He could pull well, but was a plain bad hooker. Greenidge, on the other hand, was almost at the other end of the spectrum. Though he was a decent front foot player himself, his bread and butter strokes were all off the back foot - the cuts, the pulls and the hooks. Contrary to a lot of beliefs, given that Haynes was from Guyana, Gordon was actually a very wristy player, but was just not that good against quality spin bowling. In that sense, the two of them totally complemented each other, a rare combination of silken touch and brute force coming together at the top of a batting order.

Hayden, on the other hand, was so obviously a better player of spin, and was as good off the front foot as he was with the pull and the cut. And he was all on his own for a long time, with Slats and Langer for company. Slater was a one of a kind daredevil himself, and Hayden did very well with him too. And when the more sedate Langer took over from Slats, Hayden became the more dominant partner, the one that Australia banked on to set up an entire test match for them. Hayden was able to adapt himself to both, and that is the main reason he gets my vote against Greenidge. Yes, Greenidge might have done well himself, but we'd never know and so I'll leave that out of the equation.

Gordon Greenidge is actually one of my favorite players of all time, with that one-legged pull shot in particular sending me into raptures every single time, a shot I'd try and try, in vain, to copy into my cricket vocab. But I reckon he was overrated, Haynes was clearly the more gifted player. A Steve vs Mark Waugh kind of a scenario, with the less quality player ending up achieving a LOT more.

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ananthd
09 July, 2010 16:06
Haynes more gifted and Greenidge overrated?

While I agree that Haynes was the more patient and grinding one, Greenidge was a supreme player of both pace and spin(he essentially hit 2 100s in his debut Test against Chandra, Prasanna & Venkat, for example). A guy with lesser repertoire is not necessarily a lesser player, if he employs it better!
Yes Greenidge merely hooked, cut or drove mainly in the V(he rarely flicked or swept), however he did it so well, that it rarely mattered.

There's a big difference between match winners and match savers: Greenidge clearly was one(as is Sehwag and to an extent Hayden). Haynes was more the Gavaskar vintage in that he's carried his bat a couple of times, but he hasn't hit 214 of 340 necessary to win within a day....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

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Birbal
09 July, 2010 16:50
Quote:
Haynes was more the Gavaskar vintage in that he's carried his bat a couple of times, but he hasn't hit 214 of 340 necessary to win within a day....

But Sunny did hit 221 out of 430 odd to nearly win...if only the later batsmen had done a bit more...

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ananthd
09 July, 2010 18:13
Quote:
Birbal
Quote:
Haynes was more the Gavaskar vintage in that he's carried his bat a couple of times, but he hasn't hit 214 of 340 necessary to win within a day....

But Sunny did hit 221 out of 430 odd to nearly win...if only the later batsmen had done a bit more...

Birbal, I'm simply pointing out the general style of Haynes was to be solid than intimidating(which Gordon was).....

Of course SMG >>>>> Haynes or any other opener EVER(due respect to Viru, Sunny was in a class by himself)....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2010 18:14 by ananthd.

audioman
audioman
09 July, 2010 18:41
Quote:
ananthd
A guy with lesser repertoire is not necessarily a lesser player, if he employs it better!

But clearly is the less "gifted" one? Yeah? Yup, thats the point I was making. As for Greenidge being over-rated, I guess that is just my personal opinion. I have a gut feeling Haynes would have a very good player in most teams and most eras. I am just not that sure about Gordon.

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Birbal
09 July, 2010 18:59
How about Greendige v. Barry Richards

They both played for Hampshire, though I am not sure who did better....

ddddddd
Max
17 July, 2010 07:26
Will go with Greenidge, as he was a proven Test performer. Barry Richards didn't play more than a handful of Tests. Greenidge was also a more attacking batsman IIRC.

Ok how about Ranatunga versus Ganguly (both as players and captains?



India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/07/2010 07:48 by Max.

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Birbal
17 July, 2010 15:12
Max that was too quick a dismissal of the Greenidge v. Richards comparison...

I remember seeing them both playing for Packer and Richards looked as good or better than Greenidge...and no Barry was no less an attacking batsman than Gordon...

The way he plonked Lillee to the boundary of the back foot was breathtaking...

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Birbal
18 July, 2010 03:29
Barry Richards for Hampshire

Hampshire 204 342 33 15607 240 50.50 38 91 264

Gordon Greenidge for Hampshire

Hampshire 275 472 35 19840 259 45.40 48 100 315


Kinda similar but Barry's record is better....

wah
wah
27 July, 2010 11:16
M Jhonson v Zaheer Khan?

For me ZAK .... Uses more brain and swing ....

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Birbal
28 July, 2010 07:00
This is a good one... MJ has more pace... and better batsman... ZK is a better bowler...but he has many more years of experience over MJ...

ddddddd
Max
28 July, 2010 08:52
Quote:
Birbal
and better batsman

Not too sure about that. Johnson's batting has deteriorated badly over the last year. He is more of a tailender these days.



India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!

audioman
audioman
02 August, 2010 14:54
I think that is a VERY unfair comparison. One, we are talking of a player that has played almost everywhere in the world, and also has county cricket experience behind him. MJ is just barely into a test career so far. But one thing both do have in common is how they started out their careers. Both entered via the ODI arena. While Zaheer's entry was spectacular and had him getting annointed immediately as a future spearhead, MJ probably had the buzz going from a lot early on in domestic cricket, like is the case with most Aussie players. Both were hit-the-deck-hard bowlers initially who had to spend a LOT of time learning the art of swinging the ball in to the right-hander, a skill most left-armers are born with. While Zaheer has given up on pace in an effort to make the ball talk, Mitchell Johnson still insists he wants to bowl fast, accurate and be able to move the ball around.

Out of the two, MJ is clearly the better bat, no questions. While Zaheer has a clear edge mentally, I think that comes with time and experience in the game, something MJ does not have at the moment. If you look at where ZK was 3 years into a test career, he was almost a trundler that was getting outperformed by almost everyone else in the lineup. MJ is not in that bad a shape currently, but he is not doing too much better than that either. At this point in time, I'd pick Zaheer in my team, only just. But overall, I think Johnson will end up with a lot more brilliant career than Zaheer.

audioman
audioman
04 August, 2010 18:14
Arite, I go now I guess, given no one has posted since.

Srinivas Venkataraghavan vs Maninder Singh.

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ananthd
04 August, 2010 19:24
Maninder was another story of what could have been....

He had more talent(If Pragyan Ojha had Maninder's talent, India wouldn't be in this position in this series)....

Unfortunately, the guy lost his head and his control...

Venkat was a grinder, but his relatively poor Test stats were also due to a strong spin core for India at the time and having to constantly compete with Prasanna and therefore having a haphazard on-again/off-again career....

Venkat by a hair, for his general obduracy and excellent all around fielding ability(Maninder was outstanding in the field too, but Venkat was an awesome close & outfielder)...

Besides Venkat was also very useful tailend batter....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2010 19:27 by ananthd.

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ananthd
04 August, 2010 19:25
Maninder & L Siva were criminal cases of wasting god given ability on booze & drugs....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

audioman
audioman
04 August, 2010 19:49
Interesting, Maninder being a good fielder is not a story I've read often. Have seen quite a bit of Maninder the bowler, and going from memory, I can remember a LOT of games where he was totally outbowled by Ravi Shastri, of all people. That is the thing, though, isn't it. A man that can make full use of his limited reportoire is always a better bet than a hugely talented one that doesn't even try.

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Birbal
04 August, 2010 21:25
Venkat for sure...

If he was not Indian...he would have played 40 more Tests...and taken 150 more wickets...

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ananthd
04 August, 2010 22:12
Maninder waxes nostalgic here....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

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Birbal
10 December, 2011 19:17
Let me start this up again...

Dale Steyn v. Allan Donald

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Birbal
28 January, 2012 21:32
Nobody interested in comparing White Lightening with his successor...?

I think Donald was the more complete bowler who could bowl on any kind of wicket... Steyn relies more on some help from wicket or conditions....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/01/2012 21:33 by Birbal.

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Birbal
07 July, 2012 00:12
A couple of years ago I'd have picked Donald no questions...but this is becoming a more legit comparison day by day...Donald v. Steyn.... who would you pick?

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ananthd
07 July, 2012 06:40
Still Donald for me...

White Lightning shouldered the load for a second rate team for his early Test career and really made them a respectable attack...

Steyn has much more support....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

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Birbal
07 July, 2012 22:26
Yes, that is true...but look at Steyn's strike rate... over a long period of time... including playing in the subcontinent...unbelievable...

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Birbal
10 July, 2012 15:01
AA Donald 1992-2002 72 15519 7344 330 8/71 12/139 22.25 2.83 47.0 20 3
DW Steyn 2004-2012 54 11135 6307 272 7/51 10/91 23.18 3.39 40.9 17 4

Donald slightly better avearge... Steyn slightly better strike rate...

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Birbal
14 July, 2012 04:27
How about Brett Lee v. Jeff Thomson?

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ananthd
16 July, 2012 19:57
Thomson at his best was more intimidating by way of slinger & pace....

Lee overall, for being more consistent and being the spearhead in the post McGrath era(a good 5-6 years)



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

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Birbal
16 July, 2012 22:00
Actually if you look at their bowling records not that different...

Thommo had Lillee... Lee had McGrath and Gilespie...

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Birbal
04 November, 2012 18:52
Ajmal v. Saqlain

I personally think Ajmal is the better bowler... but Saqlain was really very good too... Saqlain brought into vogue a whole new delivery the "Doosra"...which will always be his calling card...

audioman
audioman
05 November, 2012 20:53
Saqlain was a magician. He was brilliant with the ball. He could bowl seriously good off-spinners and a beautiful doosra. He was not half as bad a chucker as Ajmal is, which in itself is good enough for me to rank him over Ajmal. Saqlain was a terrific ODI bowler too, and would consistently bowl in the first 15 overs and do a terrific job.

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Birbal
05 November, 2012 21:13
Well Saqlain had the two Ws and others to help him out...

Ajmal is carrying the burden of attacking bowling all by himself... one can barely classify Umar Gul or others even as good as Aquib Javed let alone the 2 Ws and Shoaib Akhtar...

audioman
audioman
06 November, 2012 16:04
The same could be said on a head to head of Lara vs Sachin, you know. But I'm not sure you would head in the same direction for that discussion.

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Birbal
06 November, 2012 19:07
Or for Gavaskar v. Haynes, Greenidge, Richards... and I am not sure you will head in that direction either...smiling smiley

audioman
audioman
06 November, 2012 21:26
I never headed in that direction at all. You did.

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ananthd
07 November, 2012 00:53
Quote:
Birbal
Well Saqlain had the two Ws and others to help him out...
Ajmal is carrying the burden of attacking bowling all by himself... one can barely classify Umar Gul or others even as good as Aquib Javed let alone the 2 Ws and Shoaib Akhtar...

Birbal, this is double edged sword, we can also claim, Ajmal has more opportunities, ala Murali as the spearhead, than did Saqlain.

For me, Saqlain was a class apart, the best off spinner I've ever seen, besides Murali. I've seen Venkat in a Ranji Match in the tail end of his career, the guy was more Embureyish.



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

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Birbal
07 November, 2012 21:47
ananthd... pick the next H2H...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2012 21:48 by Birbal.

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