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World T20 2014
Discussion started by Grockle , 17 March, 2014 03:21
World T20 2014
Grockle 17 March, 2014 03:21
Well done to the predominantly indigenous Nepal side for smashing the predominantly Indian/Pakistani Hong Kong side in their first match of the competition by a massive 80 runs.

It's good to see the associate members getting some coverage before the big boys weigh in though Afghanistan under-performed unfortunately.

It heavily upsets the cricketers here in Oman who feel they could be there except for mismanagement of their playing resources. They may be a little over optimistic but there are a few at Nepal's level who will want more opportunities in the future in this format at least.

Still think there should be some level of requirement for at least a 50% indigenous player quota. A lot of the sides are supported very heavily by their Asian ex-pat base.



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Frome Exile 17 March, 2014 08:08
Chris Jordan? Jade Dernbach? Eoin Morgan?

Indigenous?

Discuss.

Re: World T20 2014
SheptonPaul 17 March, 2014 10:01
...but I'd have thought we'd pass a 50%-test, FE (without having done the extensive research to back this up smiling smiley)...?

Re: World T20 2014
AGod 17 March, 2014 12:19
Circumstances are different, anyway.

With the Associate Members, the aim is surely to develop the game in those countries and it would surely be beneficial to develop as wide a base of players as possible.

Re: World T20 2014
Frome Exile 17 March, 2014 12:57
My point was more that the concept of indigeneity is not only increasingly meaningless in the modern world, but also has some rather distasteful undertones.

Not, I hasten to add, that Grockle meant its use in any such way.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 17/03/2014 13:02 by Frome Exile.

Re: World T20 2014
AGod 17 March, 2014 13:26
[www.espncricinfo.com]

Exemplary figures for George, including what seems to have been the key wicket in the Zimbabwean innings, as the Irish got off to a winning start.

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 17 March, 2014 16:47
I'll happily discuss it FE when the English side becomes 80 to 90% "non English" and is deemed by the indigenous players themselves to be against the development of the domestic cricketers.

I don't mean not born in England but English like CK, I mean 9 or 10 "KP's" in a side none of whom developed their game in the country they are now representing. As far as I am aware there are no Emiratis in the UAE side though it might have changed recently.

It's a nice academic debate for people in countries who have a system and a supply of their own players as well as some who choose to change their nationality.

It's not so cut and dried when non indigenous players flood the leagues and also the administration of the game in a country. The ICC ought to set limits. We'd lose some countries but at least others would be highlighted and would have something to develop the game amongst their own people for.

This is a distinct difference between developing the game in a country and simply providing another place for players who already have cricketing skills to play international cricket under a different flag.

I'm certainly not against people having a role in that development and some of the players give excellent service to their adopted countries but surely a side should not be an associate cricket nation until they can field a significant number of people who developed their game in their own land. I personally think 5 players is not an unreasonable number. I have no problems with Caddicks or Pietersens.

I simply have a problem with 10 of them calling themselves the national side for an adopted country and that country being legitimised as a "developing cricket nation" by the world ruling body

I think anyone in any of the Test playing nations would have the same issue, discussing it or not.

I'm not sure how Jade Dernbach is any less qualified to play for England than anyone else. He was educated in Woking and hasn't played anywhere else since 2003 it seems. Morgan and Jordan I know less about but some minor nations dream of 2 out of 11.



(Sm72)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 17/03/2014 17:17 by Grockle.

Re: World T20 2014
Frome Exile 17 March, 2014 17:16
I appreciate the point you are making, Grockle. Perhaps, had you used another word, I would not have reacted at all.

It is just that it is a fairly pejorative term: as odious as it is to many of us, there are still plenty of "little-Englanders" who, Tebbit-like, would have you believe that no player of African or Asian origin is "indigenous" to this country, and by those standards, SP, we would have frequently failed a 50% Test!!
And would Australia ever have passed one?

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 17 March, 2014 17:24
Give me a better term FE.

I can't talk about 'nationals' or 'citizens' because those terms are used by some cricket authorities to legitimise the people they buy in.

Native suggests born there and that shouldn't be the case (and isn't in Craig or Jade's)

I'd appreciate an alternative that covers this rather than pontification about the term which takes away from the point trying to be made.



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Frome Exile 17 March, 2014 17:31
Home-grown?

But I'll pontificate no more.

Except to say that even Andy Flower was, I believe, embarassed that Dernbach was, until just last year, travelling to and from England games on an Italian passport!

Re: World T20 2014
AGod 17 March, 2014 19:36
Whereas he should just have been embarrassed about Jade's bowling..

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 17 March, 2014 20:11
"Home grown" still infers that the side can be produced using players not of the nation who just happen to play their cricket there.

Oman has many young Indian, Pakistani and Sri Lankan players dominating their leagues who work and play the game in the country. They are employed by large sub continental corporations to do so and make up most of the top Omani leagues.

The predominantly Asian coaches and trainers and advisors populate the national side with these 'home grown' players while neglecting Omani cricketers who, until last year, populated the lower leagues with no access to their own top A grade except as the 'token' Omani needed for registration.

They then find themselves in a catch 22 situation. No quality cricket and so no skill development therefore no national trails and no selection. The government washes its hands of the game as it is doing little to develop Omani players and effectively give control to those maintaining the sub continental status quo.

The ACC stepped in to remedy this in part and demand Omani representation in the top leagues. The OCC finally agreed to allow one full side in. A move towards development in my eyes.

Then suddenly the OCC is applying for associate membership! Oman as a cricket side have lost ground consistently over the past 3 years and have only two regular full Omani players in their side. Omani players still refuse to go to national trails because they see no progression through them an are offered none.

How is this a developed minor nation in cricketing terms? Lip service to the concept of development at best with other plans published but none looking like being in place any time soon.

Meanwhile the ICC inspection team laud the progress being made and Oman, 17th in the world rankings 7 years ago, languishes in the 4th division being regularly beaten by sides full of African and South East Asian cricketers from Uganda, Nepal and Kenya while Omani cricketers play T20 cricket on bare sandy wickets and the sub continental 'national' side takes advantage of the grass wickets of Al Amerat alongside corporate A league sides with names like 'Passage to India'



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Mike TA1 18 March, 2014 10:31
Things are getting very nasty in the World T20.

MUTINY is afoot in Netherlands’ cricket, and an Australian batsman is unwittingly at the centre of it. [www.foxsports.com.au]

Re: World T20 2014
Bagpuss 19 March, 2014 01:34
This by Barney Ronay for the Guardian. Some bits I don't entirely agree with and others that make me want to stand and applaud

[www.theguardian.com]

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 19 March, 2014 10:56
Great to see Zimbabwe have a couple of end of innings bowlers who understand that if the ball is in the blockhole it is very difficult to get away for runs.

straight Yorkers...maybe they could do a masterclass for Jade and Chris



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/03/2014 10:57 by Grockle.

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 19 March, 2014 12:15
And an excellent controlled response from the Dutch. "You need 7.5 an over? We'll allow you no more than 6"

Zimbabwe struggling to get the total they need as the Dutch press from ball one. Intelligent T20



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Bagpuss 20 March, 2014 14:54
Somerset's cricket chairman's words from Bangladesh

[www.theguardian.com]

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 20 March, 2014 17:02
There have been some really excellent close games in the group stages between the associate sides and Bangladesh. Hong Kong beat Bangla tonight.



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Wickham 20 March, 2014 17:16
And there will be dancing in the toles of Kathmandu after Nepal's apparently well-deserved win today.

Re: World T20 2014
AGod 20 March, 2014 17:27
What's a tole?

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 20 March, 2014 17:37
It was an excellent victory to be sure Wickham.

Afghanistan tried to smash their way to the win but the Nepalese are a canny bunch of bowlers and they have some very secure pairs of hands in the outfield. The Afghan big hitters were too eager and Nepal were too good.

They don't half enjoy their games as well. I've only seen them in passing highlights before but they certainly know what they are doing.



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Bobstan 20 March, 2014 17:43
Don't you know what a tole is, AG?

No, nor do I.

Re: World T20 2014
Grockle 21 March, 2014 05:11
Bet ya Wickham does.



(Sm72)

Re: World T20 2014
Bobstan 21 March, 2014 07:47
I know it's lacquered or painted 18th or 19th Century metalware. Obviously, everyone knows that!! I just don't see the relevance of that to Kabul.

I feel sure that Wickham will enlighten AG and myself at some point. I bet our Tibetan correspondent knows, but he won't tell.

Re: World T20 2014
Wickham 21 March, 2014 08:51
Tole = street in Nepali (and I think it can also mean area of a town or city).

My phrase was in fond memory of Bill McLaren (" they will be dancing in the streets of Melrose tonight").

Re: World T20 2014
Bobstan 21 March, 2014 09:07
Thank you, Wickham.

Yes, I remember the Bill McLaren. I also remember "... dancing on the streets of Raith." Raith of course actually being based in Kirkaldy.

Re: World T20 2014
Wickham 21 March, 2014 11:23
Are we sure we signed the right Myburgh?

Re: World T20 2014
hantssabre 21 March, 2014 12:16
What an incredible win by the Dutch, absolutely amazing batting

Re: World T20 2014
Wickham 21 March, 2014 12:23
I completely agree hantssabre. Fantastic hitting - and they did very well to keep their nerve.

Who will be the favourite when England play the Netherlands?

Re: World T20 2014
AGod 21 March, 2014 12:32
The bookmakers will certainly have England as favourites.

I would put no money whatsoever on England.

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