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Wickham
2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD & NEW (CLSD)
Wickham (IP Logged)
15 January, 2017 17:37
A charming interview with Somerset's oldest surviving player: Tony Sutton interview



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 09:02 by Grockle.

 
Following on
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Following on (IP Logged)
18 January, 2017 11:50
Cricinfo reporting that Dean Elgar has been signed as an overseas player. South Africa touring England in July & August and have a training camp in May, so not available for the whole summer.

[www.espncricinfo.com]

 
cricketjerry-mouse
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
18 January, 2017 13:42
Elgar man-of-the-series in recent Tests against Sri Lanka.

Yorkshire and Durham were both after his signature, but as a Kolpak.

 
nelliec
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
nelliec (IP Logged)
18 January, 2017 14:33
If Edgar gets out of the SA training camp he would probably miss all T20 , but only the CC game with Surrey on the 7th of August. This may open the door for two possible T20 signings!!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Grockle (IP Logged)
18 January, 2017 16:22
And the period of his absence might allow the signing and re-signing to be done properly this time.



(Sm72)

 
Scotsman19
Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Scotsman19 (IP Logged)
19 January, 2017 12:56
I've just read the interesting article regarding Peter Roebuck on Cricinfo. As much as I am, was aware that there was some "interesting" times during the 1980's can someone please fill me in as to what actually happened during this time? I'm really interested in both the facts as well as the personal views of those who were a lot closer to events than someone from Scotland

 
Farmer White
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Farmer White (IP Logged)
19 January, 2017 13:29
People who were around at the time will have different views on what happened. It was immensley divisive.

I attended the Shepton Mallet AGM and travelled from the South East to be there which, together with the fact that about half the membership attended a pretty remote location inaccessible by public transport gives an indication of the strength of feeling.

My recollection of the speeches is that the 'rebels' spoke with emotion particularly the person who led for them and Peter Denning, the supporters of the committee with more precision, particularly Nigel Popplewell, who interestingly shared a crucial stand with Ian Botham in turning a losing cause into a winning one in a cup semi final at Lords in the early eighties. From my recollection Popplewell's intervention was crucial in producing the size of the majority in favour of the committe if not the majority itself. I was always inclined to vote with the committee in spite of their poor handling of the situation because the team was by then failing and it was time to move on but Popplewell left me in no doubt.

Feelings may still run on this and others on here may differ in their view and recollection. You may wish to wait for further contributions before forming your own view.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2017 16:13 by Farmer White.

 
rodders12
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
rodders (IP Logged)
19 January, 2017 13:43
Totally agree with your penultimate paragraph FW and share your belief that the Popplewell intervention was key to the outcome partly due to his considerable intelligence and excellent articulation.
I was there and remember it as you outline but a long while back now..........!

 
Scotsman19
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Scotsman19 (IP Logged)
19 January, 2017 13:57
Thanks for your replies....In terms of what was the right decision or choice made, time will have been the best judge! Ian Botham, certainly no shrinking violet at the forefront defending his friends and workmates, however classified as a rebel yet has a stand named for him! For me I personally don't know enough about this time I am therefore grateful to those who were a lot closer to the action.

 
Mike BOS
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
19 January, 2017 14:05
I wondered why the conclusion on Peters death was buried out of sight, now we know. [www.espncricinfo.com]

I hope another enquiry will give Peter's family the answers they looking for on his sad death.

 
Clarence Parker
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
20 January, 2017 14:01
Indeed, so do I Mike.

I read the 'Cricket Web' article which was attached to Farmer White's posting. Some of the comments made at the foot of it were as disdainful and vitriolic as some that have appeared on this site in the past, on the subject of Peter Roebuck.

I did not know him personally but did correspond with him on one occasion and was delighted to receive such a kind and understanding reply in return.

I confess to having been an admirer and supporter of him as a cricketer, as a captain and as one of the finest (if not the) cricket writers / broadcasters of certainly my time.

Of course he did wrong as we learnt from the proceedings at Taunton Crown Court in 2001 when he was given a suspended jail sentence. IMO that wiped the slate clean.

Towards the end of last year I read with great interest and sorrow a book by Tim Lane and Elliot Cartledge entitled ‘Chasing Shadows – The life & death of Peter Roebuck’. As well as being a dark book in places, it was for me painful to read.

The book revealed that many questions concerning the circumstances that led up to his death remain unanswered.

I simply hope that his family will find the answers that will give them closure on their personal loss.

 
Grizzzly
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
20 January, 2017 15:17
Whatever his on field merits, I'm afraid I feel deeply uneasy every time I hear PR's name. This unease has only deepened after reading the book CP mentions above.

I feel similiarly uncomfortable every time I walk past his 'Hall of Fame' portrait.

Grizzzly

 
Angell Face
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Angell Face (IP Logged)
20 January, 2017 16:37
"There's so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it hardly becomes any of us to talk about the rest of us". Attributed to Edgar Wallis Hoch (1849-1925) but disclaimed by him.

 
Farmer White
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Farmer White (IP Logged)
20 January, 2017 16:39
Clarence

Thank you for pointing out the comments on the 'comments' thread at the bottom of the article which I posted. I must confess I had not read beyond the article itself, in fact not beyond the section about the Shepton Mallet meeting. Having read some of the comments (which were not in the article itself) I felt uneasy about having posted the link because of their nature. I make no judgement on Peter Roebuck. I would prefer that the Authorities properly investigate and come to a conclusion if possible. I have therefore removed the link (the remainder of my post stands on its own) because my intention had been simply to provide information about the Shepton Mallet Meeting and that was the best on-line description I found.


Farmer

 
Mike BOS
Re: Peter Roebuck (Cricinfo Article)
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
20 January, 2017 16:48
FW, I congratulate you for doing that.

I will leave my link because there are no readers post after it.

 
Mike BOS
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2017 11:19
Leicestershire have signed Surrey allrounder James Burke on a season-long loan deal. [www.espncricinfo.com]

Good luck to him but his career hasn't taken off since leaving Somerset.

 
Mike BOS
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2017 11:50
Another piece on Peter Roebuck. - [www.espncricinfo.com]

I remember something being said at the ground about that notice on Peter's locker around the same time this was all happening.

 
cricketharris
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
cricketharris (IP Logged)
26 January, 2017 17:14
Ladies - and maybe others- may appreciate photograhs of topless cricketers, including Nick Hutton, on pages 60 to 64 of February's Tatler magazine.

 
Grizzzly
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
26 January, 2017 18:32
Think I'll give that a miss CH !

Grizzzly

 
Bagpuss
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
27 January, 2017 10:24
Congratulations to Jack Leach and Lewis Gregory who have been selected for the MCC in the Champions County match season opener v Middlesex in the UAE in March.

 
Clarence Parker
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
02 February, 2017 16:30
Quote:
Mike TA1
Another piece on Peter Roebuck. - [www.espncricinfo.com]
I remember something being said at the ground about that notice on Peter's locker around the same time this was all happening.

Sadly, I remember it all too well, Mike. It led of course to the biggest internal strife that has ever taken place at Somerset CCC, and I hope never to witness its likes again. Even way back in 1986, I had been watching and following Somerset for many years, and thus got to strike up friendships with a number of people. Several of the "rebels" were amongst these friends, and although I vehemently disagreed with the stance that they took, I still have a chat with them when our paths cross. Sadly, a few have passed away in the meantime.

They are mentioned (some by name and some not) in the newly published Diaries of Peter Roebuck. I have linked them below for they take some reading.

The reported actions of two of our 'star' players disgust me as much now as it did then - only Joel Garner came out of it with his reputation unscathed in my opinion.

Perhaps I am letting off steam, for I know that I must let it go, but when I see something new written (in this case some very poignant diary entries) it sadly brings it all back again.

However, perhaps some will care to read through them to discover something of what went on before and after that cataclysmic decision of 1986.

[www.peterroebuck.com]

 
sfwithers
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
sfwithers (IP Logged)
02 February, 2017 17:54
I read vast chunks of the Peter Roebuck diaries just after reading Ian Botham's autobiography (I'm not a big fan of sporting biogs but I was on jury service, the book was in the waiting room and I was doing a lot of waiting), so I read it. Seeing the same story from two different perspectives within days was very illuminating, and I think Roebuck comes out of the whole sorry tale much the better.

I like the fact that Roebuck left the 'Judas' sign on his locker because he felt it would be seen as a sign of weakness if he removed it. And in the Botham biog he (Botham) does come across as a bit of a highly self-regarding (tries to find a safe-for-work word) buffoon. Yes, he was one of the greatest cricketers to ever play for Somerset, but there was no doubt that Roebuck's analysis of the situation was essentially correct, and that neither Botham nor Richards were then playing to their potential for Somerset. As Clarence says, Garner comes out of both versions of the story with his reputation undamaged.

It would seem to be the case that Botham, I suspect like a lot of world-class sportspeople, isn't very good at taking anything resembling criticism. Though to be fair, he does acknowledge that he was often his own worst enemy. One example of this is that after a successful first season with Queensland - batting average of 34 and 29 wickets at 27.75 - which should have led to many more lucrative seasons with a team he really enjoyed playing for, he ballsed it all up with oafish, drunken behaviour on a plane (not violent per se but he did lay his hands on a fellow passenger) and, not for the first time, the police were involved. As a result of this he was sacked. And there are many other similar stories.

It's also clear that Roebuck had a massive respect for Botham the cricketer, writing a book with him that got spiked by a publisher. Even through the time of greatest animosity that respect was always apparent in Roebuck's writing. But he had very little regard for Botham the person or his time as Somerset's captain, when he was apparently always promising great signings that never materialised.

I know that Roebuck's life is a difficult one to look back on comfortably, but I do urge people to read his diaries, as they are very revealing on so many levels. I was also surprised at how bad some of his spelling is, considering his Cambridge education, with some quite odd mis-spellings! (Yes, I know I'm setting myself up for being criticised here, especially as I work as a sub-editor...)

 
Clarence Parker
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
02 February, 2017 18:53
I thank you very much for those words, sfwithers.

 
Sloop John B
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Sloop John B (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 08:37
I like your analysis sfwithers and it largely accords with my memories of the time.
Roebuck was badly let down by a management and committee who made the fateful decision and then left Roebuck to face the flak alone.
Botham's behaviour off the field was far from exemplary before the incident but because of his cricketing prowess was given far too much slack.
I always felt the management and committee at the time should have resigned as they had allowed a situation where Viv , Joel and Both had been allowed to coast and they had built a divisive coterie around them. (Joel in my view was the least culpable of the three).

 
Clarence Parker
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 10:39
Good luck, Jacko!


[www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
Angell Face
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Angell Face (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 10:40
Whatever Roebuck's failings, and I'll not judge him, no one reading the diary can doubt his courage and his total commitment to the Somerset cause. And in that dreadful season 1986 when,in his first season as Captain, it was all falling about his ears he still came top of the batting averages with 1288 runs at 47.70.

 
Loyal of Lhasa
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 11:14
I am fairly certain that I have already mentioned on an earlier thread that I attended the Shepton Mallett meeting and sat in front of Botham's parents, who were clearly deeply upset by the way things had turned out. And I recall particularly moving speeches, in very different styles and on opposing sides of the argument, by Denning and Popplew. Although I think now and thought then that the committee's decision was the right one, I expressed by my vote my lack on confidence in them for letting the situation deteriorate so badly, as so well expressed by SJB in his posting of 8.37 this morning.



LoL

Seventy Seasons a Somerset Supporter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 15:49 by Loyal of Lhasa.

 
sfwithers
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
sfwithers (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 13:53
Clarence, I echo your thoughts re Mr Leach, and hopefully the changes to his action won't have caused any problems; it certainly sounds like he's happy enough withe the revised delivery. The surprise for me is that there was never a sniff about any issues before this, which considering he was the leading wicket-taker last season is a little surprising. Anyway, here's hoping! He also comes across very well.

 
Grizzzly
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 15:12
Yes, echo that entirely sfw & CP.

I just hope that no over zealous umpire seeks to get his name all over the Cricket press by 'calling' Jack for an illegal action at some stage during the season.

Grizzzly

 
Clarence Parker
Re: 2017 SCCC PLAYERS OLD AND NEW
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
03 February, 2017 21:21
So do I, Grizzzly.

As far as I know, only two Somerset players have been 'no - balled' for throwing. They are E.J. (Ted) Tyler and Eric Bryant. Tyler played once for England, but both were slow left -arm bowlers.

Let us hope that 'Jacko' isn't a third.

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