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Somerset LaLaLa
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 11:01
He also holds an Irish passport.

There was an interesting debate a few weeks ago on the Jeremy Vine show over the Lord Tebbit nationality Cricket Test.

More generally, it is sad people don't know their national allegiance these days though no chance Fraser or any other village 3rd team selector will be calling me

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
21 October, 2017 21:00
Why sad? I myself was born in this country of a Ukrainian father and an English mother. It means I have two teams to cheer on at World Cups.

What's not to like?!

 
AGod
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
AGod (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 22:11
Er... neither is very good!?

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
22 October, 2017 10:32
Yes. Double the disappointments.

As an aside, one of the reasons I prefer club sport to international sport is that when I say I love Somerset CCC and feel part of it, nobody's going to accuse me of not really being a supporter on account of only having moved to the county 29 years ago.

But on the other hand, if I'd still felt attached to Middlesex, because they were the local county I watched until I left home at 18, or to Surrey because my mother spent the first 18 years of her life within sight of the Oval, then there still wouldn't have been any of the political fallout which characterizes people's choice of national team to follow.

 
Wickham
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Wickham (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 16:39
I think that one of things which characterises County Championship cricket supporters is that, first and foremost, they are cricket lovers. They appreciate good play - and characters - in other teams, as well as their own. And only the tiniest minority display any hostility to other teams or players.

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 16:47
To clarify, the sadness is that a cricketer should wear his or her national shirt with the greatest pride - playing for England or Ukraine is surely the highest honour. In some sports players seem to change nationality, e.g. only by living purposely on a territory for 5 years as an adult, to have the better chance of playing internationals. Not only does this devalue the virtue of the team it also denies others their place

 
Wickham
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Wickham (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 17:27
When I spoke at a workshop in Kyiv a few years ago, the American introducing me went completely over the top about her love for, and feeling of affinity with, Ukraine. I realised that, while I couldn't match her sentiments, I needed to say something on those lines. After casting my mind around for something suitable to say, I began my comments by pointing out that Ukraine and UK were next to each other in lists of countries and claimed that this showed how close the two countries were. Then I heard the Ukrainian translation, which sounded like "Ukrainy, Grand Bretanya" and realised that my opening gambit hadn't really worked.

 
stevecav
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
stevecav (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 19:09
Wickham: this site needs a 'like' button!

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
22 October, 2017 22:06
I have a three-year-old cousin out there who's a huge fan of Паровoзик Томас (Thomas the Tank Engine), so our nations do have something in common.

I've tried to explain to his father that four summer days watching a single game of cricket at the County Ground is as good as life gets, but he finds it hard to believe - "Four days for one game ...!"

Returning to thoughts for 2018 ... I'd be wary of adding or changing too much in the way of personnel. To me that risks squandering the lessons a mostly very young team learned the hard way in 2017, by sticking together, and somehow finding a way to get the runs and wickets and victories in the end.

Unless an obviously top-class overseas batsman becomes available, for whom nobody could feel aggrieved for losing their place, I'd be inclined to stick with the squad we have and draw the dividend you'd expect from having battled through the hard times.

I certainly wouldn't be looking for any Kolpak all-rounders to keep the likes of Gregory or Bess out of the side. And certainly not when you still have Pete Trego on your books. To me he was no more guilty than anyone else for the lousy first half of the season, and quite why he in particular should have been the one mournfully wheeling his gear out of the ground on the first morning of the Yorkshire game was never clear to me.

You go right back to the first game, where we squandered that 79-run first-innings lead against Essex. Who top-scored for us? Trego with a 100-ball 48. Then he was second-highest scorer in the draw vs Warks, with 52, while the next four batsmen mustered 0,0,8 and 0 n.o.

When he was finally allowed back, he showed he could still make an impact, at the Oval, with that 5-67, then top-scoring in the second innings.

You'd be doing well to find a Kolpak all-rounder who made those kinds of impacts when supposedly out of form.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 23/10/2017 15:05 by That Bloke With The Dog.

 
Grizzzzly
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Grizzzzly (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 23:29
Yes TBWTD, you get the feeling there may have been a falling out with MM.

Will be very interesting to see how AH handles things moving forwards. At least he won't have to spend much time getting to know the place.

Grizzzly

 
Grizzzzly
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Grizzzzly (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 23:29
Duplicate post - deleted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/10/2017 00:15 by Grizzzzly.

 
Farmer White
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Farmer White (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 23:58
There is a story told of Tom Courtenay. He was touring with a play in the United States in days long before the internet turned all our lives upside down. One evening one of Courtenay's fellow British actors saw him poring through the football results in a several days old British newspaper he had managed to find. On discovering that Courtenay was desperately trying to find the Hull City football result at a time when Hull City were struggling to hold on in the lower reaches of the old Football League the actor asked Courtenay, "Why on Earth do you support a team like Hull City?". "You don't pick your team," replied Courtenay, "Your team picks you." And so it does or at least that is how it was for me.

Funny things, allegiances to sporting teams. For supporters at least. The allegiences of professional sportsmen who have to make their living from their sport may be another matter of course. As to supporters their allegiance to the team they support, whichever team it is, however they came by it is unlikely to have been within their gift. Rather like the colour of their eyes. There is no logic in it, or in which team picks them. Somerset picked me when I was born, or not long after, or more probably before. I cannot remember a time when I could not rest until I knew the Somerset cricket score.

There are many things beyond place of birth that can determine our allegiance. I know two people who are lifelong Somerset supporters but who have never lived in or anywhere near the county. It was the allegiance of their respective father’s which determined their allegiance but it is none the less strong for it. They hurt just as much as I do when Somerset lose or come second again.

I lived thirty years in a land ruled by Essex CCC as far as cricket allegiances go but never had the slightest inclination to support Essex or even to watch them unless they were playing Somerset. Others I have met have moved from the county they support to another and have over time found their allegiance moving from the old county to the new. They didn’t really know why it happened and I suspect they cannot now do anything about it even if they wanted to. Once their new team had picked them they shared the edge of the Somerset seat just as I did. If Tom Courtenay is right and your team picks you then you don’t have a vote on the issue.

Football is a different thing altogether from cricket with me. I was brought up with Exeter City my nearest Football League Club but have never had the remotest interest in Exeter City. I lived in Leeds in the Revie years but never felt the remotest attachment to Leeds United either or in Yorkshire CCC for that matter. I worked for over two decades in London. As I have said on here before Somerset is my home but London is my city. Yet I have not the slightest attraction toward any of the London Premier or other League clubs. I have no idea why other than none of them have picked me.

Now Nottingham Forest is another matter. I worked in Nottinghamshire for five years. I very quickly gained an interest in Nottingham Forest and still take an interest in their results to this day although I have very little interest in football at all and left there over 35 years ago. My interest has nothing to do with football and everything to do with Brian Clough. He managed Forest in my Nottinghamshire days.

He was a deeply flawed individual with a huge streak of sheer and unmatched managerial genius. In spite of his flaws he attracted such deep loyalty from Forest supporters, and from well beyond the team’s core support, it was irresistibly infectious. I didn’t pick Nottingham Forest to keep a lifelong, if casual, interest in. It picked me, or rather Brian Clough did. Leeds United on the other hand, nor another flawed managerial genius, Don Revie, made no claim at all.

And if you have two sporting allegiances in the same sport what are you to do about it other than follow both and enjoy or suffer the double allegiance? If two teams happen to have picked you, you can’t shed one of them. It is not in your gift to do so. The world doesn’t work like that. If Tom Courtenay is right, even if your two teams play each other you still won’t be able to choose which one to support over the other. Neither, I suspect, will you be able to decide to support them equally or to suspend your support for the match. Your teams will decide all that for you and try as you will when the middle stump goes flying or the goal goes in whether you feel elation or dejection will not be your call.

And to my mind, should anyone ask, no-one should need to say how they feel when one of their teams sends a middle stump flying or scores a goal against the other and neither should it be an issue if they do.


Edited to correct the spelling of Tom Courtenay after reading mikeindex's subsequent post. I assume he is not worth arguing with when it comes to spelling.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 25/10/2017 13:26 by Farmer White.

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 00:30
Rally behind the team(s) of your folks and if you are lucky enough to be taken at an early age you will be with them for life. It helped me there was the annual festival at Weston and many of the local kids went, Taunton came later

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 14:05
Came across this:

[www.kyivpost.com]

In the context of the thread, some friendly games for Somerset next season?

 
RRANDREWS
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Old Boy! (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 20:21
Having seen my first county match in 1948 at the age of 9 in Taunton, I have never considered being anything other than a Somerset supporter, even when my national service took me to that very successful club (then) Leicester! My concern for 2018 is that we may well lose Cove to England in all formats by then. I can see him being a big success down under this winter. That could also happen to Jack if he gets a bit of luck. What the hell do we do then?

Old Boy!

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
24 October, 2017 09:59
I'd be confident that L Gregory, J Overton, T Groenewald, P v Meekeren and P Trego could cope with C Ove's absence. You'd like to think that Gregory's and J Ove's operations and lengthy absences this year will have finally sorted out their problems.

As for Leach, well, even if he does get the job as England's preferred drinks carrier (which, let's face it, is all a specialist spinner is ever going to be for home Tests), at least it would mean a guaranteed spot for Dom Bess, and that's got to be good news.

Does anyone know whether v d Merwe is going to be back next year? I hope so. I love the guy.

 
mikeindex
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
mikeindex (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 12:38
Well said FW, and Tom Courtenay.

"Your team chooses you" - I've said the same thing myself when discussing sports support with my ex-wife and son (both NFL fans - she supports the Dallas Cowboys and he the New England Patriots, for no obvious reason. Personally I have a soft spot for the Green Bay Packers).

I once made a conscious decision to switch my cricket allegiance from Somerset to Essex. I was living in Essex at the time, I respected their ability and loved their approach, and I was feeling a bit disenchanted with various things about Somerset cricket. Besides which we had by then won our first trophies, so I didn't feel like a rat leaving a sinking ship. (Though come to think of it, leaving a sinking ship seems an extremely sensible thing to do, whether you're a rat or not).

It didn't make the slightest difference. When I opened a paper it was still the Somerset score I looked for first, and with the greatest anticipation/anxiety/both at once. After a week or two I realised it was a pointless gesture, Somerset had chosen me.

I hope no-one is too shocked by this revelation. It was a long time ago - damnfool ideas you get when you're young.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/10/2017 12:39 by mikeindex.

 
Bobstan
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Bobstan (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 13:45
I am shocked and appalled, Mikeindex. I suppose the age card gets you out of jail free.

 
sfwithers
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
sfwithers (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 16:04
I saw my first Somerset match in Bath in the early 70s, just about remembering Kerry O Keeffe, and they had at times a very unathletic-looking team... Kitchen, Parks, Burgess... but there was never any question of following anybody else. I was born in Bath, my father has followed SCCC since the late 1940s, and my parents used to sign a holiday form so I could take a week off school for the Bath festival week (wouldn't be allowed now, of course, but it didn't stop me getting a degree); I even worked on the secondary schoolboard, the one near the pavilion not the one near the sports centre, for a few years, which was the first time I ever did paid work - it was voluntary but we were given a fiver at the end of the week! Still, that was when a fiver was worth something.

As for next year, anything other than a season-long struggle against relegation!

 
Loyal of Lhasa
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 16:58
Obviously, Mikeindex, you had no choice about your allegiance, though you should never forget that the winner of the rat race is still a rat.

I am sure I have mentioned here that I too had no choice in my allegiance, despite having been born in Durham through a gross misjudgment on the part of my parents. That was their last misjudgment, for they brought my two-year old self to Somerset where they had lived before the war. Both were firm supporters of England's finest county, though neither had been born there. Indeed my father was born ten thousand miles away but was lucky enough to go to school in Somerset, while my mother would travel from her home in South Devon to watch cricket at Taunton in the Twenties and Thirties. (She was there when Hobbs overtook Grace's record number of centuries). Old boy! got to the ground a year earlier than I did (Did you see Bradman's Invincibles?) but three years older than I was on my first visit.

I think I have also mentioned a friend who moved to London from Hull and became an Arsenal supporter. His explanation was that on arrival in the metropolis he looked around for a football team to support and chose the Gunners. He had no convincing answer to my question as to what was wrong with continuing, like Tom Courtney, to support Hull. My own interest in football is about as advanced as Farmer White's. If there is any result that I look for, it is that of Newcastle and there are probably three reasons for that, firstly because of my very early years in the North East, secondly because, if I remember correctly, they won a couple of cup finals in the very early Fifties, and thirdly, and now most importantly of all, they are one of the few senior side who still play in proper football shirts. Not that I have ever watched Newcastle play - or any other side from the top four divisions.



LoL

Seventy Seasons a Somerset Supporter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/10/2017 17:53 by Loyal of Lhasa.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Grockle (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 17:05
RvdM is back next year Bloke.



(Sm72)

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
24 October, 2017 18:03
Thanks. Great!

He really should change his first name to Rofl to reflect where his follow-through seems to take him when he's batting for boundaries ... well, when he's batting full stop really.

But it's his bowling which makes him someone I like to have in the four-day side. In that amazing win over Durham last tear, where they were skittled out and defeated in the first hour on the Saturday morning, he was every bit as potent as Jack Leach.

What makes it all the more admirable is that he really was a flat, one-day run-choking spinner for years before he arrived here for his second coming, but he's become a real wicket taker now: an overseas player who's adapted to what his team needs from him.

 
Demon of Frome
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Demon of Frome (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 21:03
Glad RvdM is coming back.

As I was leaving the ground after the conclusion of the Middx game he was discussing a small dent in his SCCC car with a female club official who was of the opinion that he would have to pay for the damage. I felt like pointing out that he had just taken four wickets to help keep us in Div 1 and that this alone should justify complete exoneration but I wasn't sure that either party would welcome my intervention so I kept walking.

 
Farmer White
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Farmer White (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 21:10
The dent wasn't caused by one of the two sixes hit off him as he took those four wickets was it? In which case it might be that he could be held vicariously liable for the damage done by the batsman.

 
nelliec
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
nelliec (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 13:44
Are there any pending announcements regarding 2018 fixtures yet ??

 
cricketharris
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
cricketharris (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 13:47
Yes, they are pending.

 
Bagpuss
Re: County championship thoughts for 2018
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 22:05
They usually come out at the end of November. End of next week or more likely beginning of following week would be my guess.

 
AGod
2018 Current CC1 games
AGod (IP Logged)
14 April, 2018 17:08
A pretty dimsal start for Mr Northeast.

According to this week's Evening Standard, every CC1 county *apart* from Surrey made huge offers in a bid to sign Northeast.

Of course, Mr Bransgrove had the ECB 'compensation payment,' up his sleeve to buttress his offer. But said offer has paid no immediate dividends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/04/2018 17:42 by Grockle.

 
hantssabre
Re: 2018 Current CC1 games
hantssabre (IP Logged)
14 April, 2018 21:02
He did play a lovely shot for 4 to his first ball in the second innings but was out the next. Worcestershire have a decent seam attack and shouldn't be taken too lightly. They might even end up beating Hampshire. Looks like an interesting next couple of days although the weather forecast isn't great for tomorrow but 2 full days so far and really hot in the sun this afternoon

 
Hants01
Re: 2018 Current CC1 games
Hants01 (IP Logged)
15 April, 2018 13:27
One might have thought that the Somerset season of 2017 with a pitch controversy and a relegation battle might have yielded a bit of humility. Somerset are mightily lucky to be in Division 1. They might not be in it too much longer if a number of pundits are proven correct.

Northeast went to Hampshire and it was a logical choice. Staying in the South East, he knows many of the Hampshire players anyway, plays at a Test ground and he has also- although I despise the idea- cited Hampshire as a host of the new franchise.


Worcestershire need 324 to win and are 17-1 at present, in what I think is an evenly poised contest. Yes, Northeast has failed twice and given nobody so far has managed a ton, only Dawson and Livnigstone with one wicket each has given spin any wicket-taking representation, the scores have been very low, is Northeast's start surprising?

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