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Bagpuss
We're Going To Scarbados
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 08:04
Yorkshire have won 5 of their last 6 matches at Scarborough, and despite England call ups still have a strong squad to choose from

Bresnan(c)
Brook
Coad
Handscomb
Hodd
Kohler-Cadmore
Leaning
Lees
Lyth
Patterson
Plunkett
Rashid
Sidebottom



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2017 23:56 by Grockle.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Grockle (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 09:23
Weather form and distance put me off this one.

Hope it stays dry for those who travel. Great place to watch cricket on a sunny day though any miseries going will meet their match in North Yorkshire!

Good luck to Lewis, Rousey and all the guys. No better place to start a comeback than in Viking country.

It'll be raight sithee. Gerrem on"t run and keepem thear.



(Sm72)

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 09:25
Batting looks, potentially, weaker than for some time. But then again compared to ours they probably look like Bradman's invincibles. Their bowling looks stronger than it was at Taunton which bodes ill for us. The one game that Yorks did not win in the last six was an overwhelming innings defeat by Middx in which Rayner spun them to their doom in the third innings of the match.... dare we hope that the track might turn?

Logic says we shall probably lose by 200+ runs (that being the sort of margin that Yorks have been winning North Marine Road games by) or, should we elect to bat first, by ten wickets or an innings. Cricket isn't, however, always logical and we must hope and pray that the likes of Hildreth and Davies, who owe us vast numbers of runs this season, will actually turn up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2017 09:26 by AG on apple.

 
Tom Seymour
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Tom Seymour (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 09:33
Yes still a strong looking squad. On paper too strong for our motley crew.

I haven't an in depth knowledge of the Yorkshire playing squad - does anyone on here? But with Test calls, injuries etc. they can always call upon other experienced players to step in.

Can Somerset? No! We bring in an untried youngster or two and subject them to a baptism of fire before they are always ready and they will be tried, tested and found out by the opposition.

Our squad is simply not deep enough. We have too many players in no form whatsoever with the bat who are kept in the side game after game because there is nobody else to replace them. Even when one or two names are mentioned there are conspiracy theories put forward to account for their continued non - selection - i.e. Myburgh and Trego. They may not be so conspiratorial as some people imagine. (Sm22)

Scarborough is not the right place to go because the club's playing side is all at sea, and with Maynard the bearded admiral on board we are heading for the rocks.

Enjoy the sea air Bagpuss and write a report to tell us where it all went right if you please.



A glass half - empty or a glass half - full?
Regardless, both glasses need filling up.

 
sandhills
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
sandhills (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 10:00
What a pair you two are.

 
Shepton Paul 2
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 10:06
But then, Tom, we aren't Yorkshire - or Surrey, or Warwickshire, or Middlesex , or Division Two counties like Notts.

 
Tom Seymour
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Tom Seymour (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 10:12
We all know that Shepton, so your point is?

Is there one?



A glass half - empty or a glass half - full?
Regardless, both glasses need filling up.

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 10:18
It's called reality, Sandhills, you should try and find the smelling salts yourself sometime. The batting has been abject, end of, and it seems very unlikely that they will rectify it vs a Yorkshire attack that is infinitely stronger than the heavily weakened unit which they sent to Taunton (+ Bresnan, Coad, Plunkett and Rashid this time out).

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 10:24
As for the 'we're not Test counties,' schtick, we've been told time and again that we are one of the biggest payers in the land - for several years we were told top three or four. So, if that's really been the case and if it's really the case that our squads are weaker than the aforementioned lot (Surrey apart as they always out-spend everyone tô no effect) then one must conclude, must one not, that Somerset must have got a poor amount of bang for our buck..

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 11:30
Well, 8 overs without losing a wicket which represents progress compared to the nadir of the second innings vs Hants.

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 11:38
And now Sidebottom forced out of the Yorks attack - need every break we can get.

 
Bagpuss
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 11:50
Trescothick c Handscomb b AGod.....

 
Angell Face
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Angell Face (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:10
One would think that the usual suspects would wait at least until lunchtime on day one before telling the rest of us that there is no hope.

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:17
30 for 3. Plus ça change. Zero sympathy for Maynard given continued and perverse decision to ignore obvious candidate for a top three spot, in Myburgh, plus failure to even try to find external replacement for Elgar. Maynard is truly woeful and should go.

Angell Face - if you require telling, then you have not been paying attention.

 
chunkyinargyll
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:19
Deja vu all over again.

Rouse did no better, and no worse, than the skipper would have done.

 
geordie moonraker
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:22
I am at a total loss as top why we batted. WE know that that is the weakest part of our game at the moment. If we bowl we have a chance of restricting Yorks and then batting. To bat puts us in the back foot to start with and I will not in the circumstances hear talk of bowling last. I also wonder why if Myburgh is fit he is not playing. I am normally a cheerful chappie but am totally baffled.

 
Farmer White
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Farmer White (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:39
As we approach lunch some thoughts I started to pen over the weekend between the mayhem of family visiting from all directions.

There is little to be said about the dropping of Tom Abell that is not obvious. Except to wish him well in his batting rehabilitation and the rebuilding of his confidence. I would just add that any young batsman who can score 95 on his first class debut; can carry his bat twice in a season; can score a century on a minefield of a pitch at Edgbaston which defeated most others; can captain the side on the field with calm and precision in spite of having had the poorest possible year with the bat himself; and all that in the cauldron of First Division Championship cricket, must have something special about him. I trust he and those working with him will focus on those achievements, on the innate ability and belief he must have from deep within himself to have carried them off, and on the fact that such ability will still be there. If he can release it he has shown the ability and class to be a formidable player.

And so where does this leave Lewis Gregory and the team? Clearly they have a mountain to climb. They have to turn around the desperate situation in which the Club finds itself. More than that though they have to turn back the tide of history that flows heavily against them and which few other Counties have turned.

Nothing has changed in the Championship since I posted my thoughts on Somerset’s predicament at the head of the ‘Battle resumed against Warwickshire’ thread in the middle of May apart from the fact that the problem has now become entrenched and the road to salvation more treacherous. Essex are still at the top of the table and Somerset and Warwickshire are now rooted at the bottom. Apart from some signs that Stephen Davies may be finding some form with the bat at six the experienced batsmen continue to labour without result. It is still the case that the batsmen have rarely had the best of the conditions in any match and that has made their job all that much harder but it does not explain the persistence and depth of the problem.

As the team start at Scarborough I return to the point I made at the head of that Warwickshire thread. In short most of the historical evidence of the two division County Championship is that membership of the First Division is cyclical and time limited. The first half of this season has added to the weight of that evidence. The harsh reality arising from that evidence is that teams have a limited life span in the First Division and Somerset have far exceeded the normal span.

To summarise the facts: Somerset, at 10 seasons, have remained longer in the First Division than any other county except Durham (11). Only three teams have been continuously in the First Division since 2012. They were the top three at the end of that season. They are the bottom three now. The two rooted at the bottom are the Division’s longest standing members: Somerset at 10 seasons and Warwickshire at 9. Middlesex, third from bottom have been in the Division 7 seasons. After that come Yorkshire at 5 seasons, only half Somerset’s stay. The other four have been in the Division less than that. That suggests that the likelihood is the longer a team stays in the First Division the harder will it struggle to stay there. There may be more to Somerset’s woes than just what has happened during this season.

It is difficult to understand why Counties cannot remain longer in the First Division but virtually all the evidence is that it is a fact that they cannot. It is a fact that now stares Somerset in the face and one that should not be ignored. Perhaps strong teams have to rebuild from time to time and cannot sustain the strength and quality required to compete in the First Division while they do it. This may be a factor in Somerset’s case for our young batsmen are maturing two or three seasons behind most of our young bowlers who have really come into their own over the second half of last season and this.

Perhaps also a season comes when teams simply cannot ‘go again’ in a Division where there is no respite and with Somerset’s tendency to finish either near the top or near the bottom they will have been under as much continuous pressure as any. For most or all of every season teams are either challenging for the Championship or fighting to stave off relegation. Last season was Nottinhamshire’s 9th in the Division. They were 3rd in 2015. They went into freefall into the Second Division in 2016. Inexplicable in the context of the previous season. Perhaps all but inevitable in the context of the previous decade.

The only team to have stayed in the First Division longer than Somerset are Durham. Yet in 2012 with six games to go, Somerset now have seven, they were adrift at the bottom of the Division and generally accepted to be effectively relegated. Paul Collingwood was abruptly appointed Captain, five out of the last six games were won and Durham avoided relegation. It was a feat at County level to match that of Brearley at International level in 1981. Miracle and good fortune. Had it not been for the presence in the team of Collingwood with his England career over and looking to make another major contribution to cricket Durham would almost certainly have been relegated after 6 seasons leaving Somerset and Warwickshire well ahead of the pack when it comes to First Division longevity.

If Somerset are to stay in the First Division they will have to repeat, under Lewis Gregory, Durham’s feat under Collingwood when they have been in the First Divisions four seasons longer than Durham had been in 2012. Collingwood had a distinguished international and domestic record, huge experience, a powerful personality and an absolute determination to keep Durham in the First Division. It is quite an act for Gregory to emulate.

But Collingwood and Durham did show that what is required is possible. Added to that Somerset have shown a remarkable resilience in recent seasons when at the wrong end of the table and have pulled off some outstanding end of season rallies and charges at both ends of the table. Last season not least among them when they won five of the last seven matches. That would do nicely now and something very near it may be needed now. The fact that the bowlers have continued to perform in spite of the batting woes shows considerable spirit given they have had to do much of the batting too and is a positive which Somerset take into the second half of the campaign. If the batting can be turned around and the bowlers hold their form there might just be room for hope.

As to Lewis Gregory I noted a comment made by Matthew Maynard at the last Q&A when Gregory’s season was still in doubt. He said something along the lines of Lewis being a major positive influence in the dressing room even when he wasn’t playing. He will now need to use that influence and his leadership skills to the full. At least the captaincy has come to him when he is taking wickets but in particular when he may finally have discovered how to bat in Championship cricket.

30-3. If Gregory had any doubts about the size of the challenge which faces him they will be gone now. Perhaps too signs that however poorly the experience players are playing and however loud the calls for young players to be introduced exposing c20 year olds to a losing team in the First Division was always going to be a questionable strategy. In my view it has always been more likely that the experienced players would come good this season rather than that the youngsters would fill their shoes so soon. That said there is doubtless a reason or at least a rationale as to why Rouse was played ahead of Myburg. It would be interesting to know what it was. Let us hope the youngsters find or keep their feet soon. Whatever the outcome let us remember the tide of history against which the team are battling.

 
Rod1883
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Rod1883 (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:39
Looks like Sidebottom will not bowl again this match, so IF the middle order and tail can get us up to circa 250+ first innings, then you never know......

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Grockle (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 12:42
Please don't revert to 'end of'. In a debate it's something a child would say when they can't think of anything else... and I'm sure you can



(Sm72)

 
mikeindex
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
mikeindex (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 13:59
I cannot begin to understand why Hildreth is still in the side, why Myburgh isn't and why Rouse, fine prospect as he undoubtedly is, is preferred to Bartlett.
Nor indeed why, even with the selected XI, Rouse is thrust in at No. 3 and Hose, with a fair amount of experience of opening in List A games, is held back.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Grockle (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 14:08
Well you have just joined the 'Great Mystified' Mike. Though James got over 30



(Sm72)

 
sandhills
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
sandhills (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 14:15
Yorkshire also wanted to bat . Sidebottom swung it and it seamed. The bounce looks variable too.

 
mikeindex
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
mikeindex (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 14:43
If it's seaming and swinging, why bat first (especially if your top order is of known if unaccustomed fragility)? Perhaps because you expect it to take spin later.

But if you expect it to spin later, why leave out Dom Bess?

 
sandhills
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
sandhills (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 15:15
Perhaps its expected to rain tomorrow and become even more seamer friendly. Im sure those that watch scorecards have a better opinion.

 
brt1919
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
brt1919 (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 15:19
Well done Adam Hose. There was a very good post a while back & yes, we have no divine right to be in CC1. CC cricket is very different from Premier League football in that most teams are either fighting for the title or to avoid relegation most of the time, there's not much time to consolidate as a mid table side & not a lot of warning or time to fix things if they go wrong.

We can't blame the weather either for the position we find ourselves in, & my word, if the likes of Hildreth/Trego/Tres had been in good form this year like they've been for so many seasons, then things would be so, so different right now. But that's life.

 
Mike BOS
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 15:24
It is hard to criticize somebody that has scored 32, but there are times when we don't need runs scored at over a run a ball.

Did anybody hear how JH got out?

 
Farmer White
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Farmer White (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 15:30
Toss decisions are notoriously difficult except on a flat pitch under blue skies.

I recently posted about Somerset's toss decision at Lord's when we elected to bat in helpful bowling conditions. There was heavy criticism then when Somerset found themselves 80-5 although they ended up ahead on first innings.

I looked at all toss decisions in Middlesex CC games at Lord's since the start of 2015.

Here is a summary:

In the 15 CC matches at Lords since the beginning of 2015 (at the middle of June) there have been:

8 decisions to bat first. On 6 occasions the result has been a draw. For sides which elected to bat there has been 1 victory and 1 defeat.

7 decisions to insert. I think it would be reasonable to assume that all or at least most of those decisions were made because conditions looked favourable for bowling on the first day. On 2 occasions the result has been a draw, on 1 one of those drawn occasions the side (Essex) which inserted the other was 8 down and 292 short of victory at the end. On 1 occasion the side which inserted the other won. On 4 occasions the side which inserted the opposition lost.

Middlesex never lost having been inserted.


I have just looked at the last six CC results at Scarborough.

Twice Yorkshire won the toss, batted and won.

Once Yorkshire won the toss, batted and lost.

Once Yorkshire won the toss, inserted the opposition and won.

Twice the opposition inserted Yorkshire and lost.

These outcomes, whilst not as conclusive as the Lord's ones, do suggest that insertions are risky and more likely to result in defeat than victory. It is true of course that Yorkshire have been a stronger team in most matches over the last three years and their one defeat was against Middlesex but the table suggests they are the stronger team in this match and so the above results are relevant.

 
sandhills
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
sandhills (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 15:32
Perhaps Yorkshire bowled well too. Scarborough is very pleasant. Cant see AG here although he got a wicket.

 
Rod1883
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
Rod1883 (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 15:59
200 for 7 at Tea, so something near 250 is still possible - just over would be nice for the extra batting point.
We could have a game if we can get that to sort of score I think.

 
AG on apple
Re: We're Going To Scarbados
AG on apple (IP Logged)
03 July, 2017 16:09
Well done, Adam.

Allenby ineffectual as ever.

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