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England v West Indies Test series
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 17:03
Mark Stoneman and Mason Crane have been called up for the first Test at Edgbaston next week, whilst Chris Woakes returns after injury.

Dawson, Finn and Jennings the three to drop out of the squad of 13.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
AGod (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 17:06
Windies usually awful versus wrist-spin so I suppose it might give Crane some cheap scalps, get his confidence up etc... but can't help thinking that it would be a false dawn.

Having all three of Stokes, Woakes and Mo in the same team gives a very powerful engine room to the side.

Stoneman's call-up seems well deserved. However, there is again the issue that he might score millions vs Windies, but the tour Down Under will be a far tougher proposition. I think they may regret not getting a look at Stoneman vs Morkel, Rabada et al.

In general, those marginal selections that have got the call in the second half of the summer may consider themselves fortunate compared to those picked vs SA.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 18:00
England's selectors pursuing their time-honoured philosophy of chucking any leggie who gets a few county wickets into the Test side (cf. Schofield, Salisbury and to a lesser degree Hobbs).

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Wickham (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 18:48
... and Borthwick.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
AGod (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 19:03
Yes, it's all a bit desperate, really.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 19:30
Tommy Greenhough?

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
AGod (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 20:22
By and large, we'd be better accepting that our very poor climate mitigates against the development of high quality wrist-spinners, rather than desperately jumping on prospective leg-spinners and trying to shoe-horn them into our team.

Let's face it, the ECB has no doubt poured considerable resources in recent times (probably over the past 25 years or so) into desperately trying to develop quality wrist-spinners but there has not been so much as a single conspicuous success, thus far - not even in county cricket, much less in Tests.

There are two main reasons why our climate mitigates the development of decent leggies. First of all, the volume of rain produces slow and low pitches. Arguably the biggest asset for any leggie is bounce, ordinarily. And all spinners are better if the ball turns quickly.

The element that receives less attention is the sheer cold. Anybody that has ever tried to bowl wrist-spin, at any level, will tell you the same thing: the rotation of the shoulder involved in wrist-spin is not a completely natural movement of the kind that is necessary for all other types of bowling. The body doesn't really want to rotate like that at the shoulder. And when it's cold (and often damp too) the shoulder does not co-operate properly and this is one of the primary reasons that accuracy is so hard to come by for the overwhelming majority of English wrist-spinners, including ALL of the ones of recent vintage...

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
nelliec (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 22:02
At least there will be no Woakes for Warks in the CC game,and probably no Crane in the T20 last game at the Rose Bowl

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Scrumper (IP Logged)
10 August, 2017 22:16
I don't think any kind of bowling is natural AGod. My shoulder doesn't function very well below 20°C, 30+ years bowling sheer pace takes it toll.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
AGod (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 10:09
These things are all relative.......one's body is designed in such a way that one can bring the arm over at the shoulder but the rotation of the shoulder required to bowl wrist-spin is distinctly abnormal.... and when the body resists it, the timing is thrown off resulting in the ball either being released too early (something floaty, probably a full-toss or certainly something with too much air unless you've managed to imprart enough revs on it to get it to dip late) or too late (a useless half-tracker).

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 11:49
... my body is designed in such a way that it would have been best for all concerned to have conveyed it directly from the cradle to the coffin. Pity about all the intervening years.



LoL

Sixty-nine Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
17 August, 2017 14:12
After Phil Tufnell has said Stoneman could be the one... oh well, highlights at 12am

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
19 August, 2017 17:59
Get home at 6.00, screen shows WI 38/1, Brathwaite and Hope not out in teens. Temporarily forgetting which opener was not out last night, think "must be tea or rsp, showing yesterday's highlights".
Full scorecard flashes up on screen. Oh dear.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
RadstockRob (IP Logged)
19 August, 2017 18:51
The cricket seems to be interuppting the pop concert!

I'm going up the club.

It's bingo night tonight!

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
21 August, 2017 19:55
Thoroughly cogent, balanced and literate commentary from the generally reliable George Dobell here:
[www.espncricinfo.com].

I totally agree with his view of the balance of the side, namely that England do not need an extra batsman with Moeen at 7 and that their current plethora of all-rounders is a God-given opportunity to play six bowlers and cover all bases.

George wants Woakes at 8 and a second spinner in for TRJ (tough on TRJ, as he acknowledges) -personally I'm not convinced that Broad on recent form is more worthy of a place than TRJ or that Woakes has fully proved his fitness, but I'd certainly go with two of the three. GD doesn't specify which spinner he'd pick, but with one off-spinner assured of a place surely the only remotely sensible options (fine cricketer as Ollie Rayner is) are Rashid and our boy Jack.

Making it a pretty good bet on the national selectors picking someone else.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
21 August, 2017 21:18
As a side line, Chris Gayle and Marlon Samuels have been named in the West Indies squad for the one-day series against England.

That must be good for the West Indies

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
21 August, 2017 22:43
Mason Crane is the second spinner in the squad. If they decide to play two he'll be the one

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
wsm fan (IP Logged)
21 August, 2017 23:18
Westley & Cook could play against us.
Test starts Friday so they'll be finished well in time for Monday!

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 11:42
Quote:
Bagpuss
Mason Crane is the second spinner in the squad. If they decide to play two he'll be the one
Like I said...

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 12:02
Quote:
Mike TA1
As a side line, Chris Gayle and Marlon Samuels have been named in the West Indies squad for the one-day series against England.
That must be good for the West Indies

Courtney Browne, an estimable former WK who is currently saddled with the job of WI chairman of selectors, is quoted on Cricinfo as saying, "With regards to the selection of the ODI squad, the panel welcomes back Chris Gayle and Marlon Samuels, who will both add value to our batting and help with the nurturing of the young batsmen in the team".

Both will undoubtedly add greatly, in talent and charisma, to the WI batting if they feel like making the effort. The last half-sentence strikes me as somewhere on the optimistic side of realism.

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