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Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 16:01
Quote:
Clarence Parker
Tommy Greenhough?
Good question Clarence - sorry, only just noticed it.
Tommy Greenhough was still playing for Lancs when I got interested in cricket, but his Test career was shortly before my time. I'm not sure if I ever saw him play but if I did I'd have been too young to appreciate his skills properly.
His first-class career record (751w @ 22) is certainly pretty impressive, and his limited Test one (16w, also @ 22, in four Tests) likewise.
Cricinfo's profile says, "Tommy Greenhough had the misfortune to be a legspinner with a decent googly in an era when the art was increasingly considered unfashionable".
My impression is that between Tommy's last Test in 1960 and Robin Hobbs' first in 1967 there was a massive U-turn in popular opinion from "wrist-spinners are a liability, we need finger spinners who can bat" to "the art of wrist-spin is dying, we need to encourage it". (Hobbs ended up playing seven Tests to Greenhough's four, and took 12 wickets at 40).
The advent of one-day cricket, in which spinners were notoriously scorned by both captains and selectors, probably had an impact of a perverse kind in terms of the (not unjustified) backlash from traditional cricket lovers.
Hobbs wasn't a bad bowler by any means, but his record suggests he wasn't up to it at the top level - despite which he was selected seven times ahead of at least one finger-spinner of the class of Titmus, Illingworth, Allen, Gifford, Mortimore, Wilson, Langford, the ageing Lock, the young Pocock and the young Underwood - all of whom I would tend to rank above any England-qualified spinner currently playing with the possible exception of Jack Leach.
Greenhough on the other hand was discarded in favour of very much the same options (apart from the last two).
Funny old world.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 17:24
Tommy Greenhough was certainly a useful bowler at county level.

What I remember mostly about his bowling was his lengthy run up for a spinner, and with arms flailing around all over the place.

When circumstances permitted (e.g. when a CC match was heading towards an inevitable draw and there was thus nothing to play for) some players used to impersonate his run up and delivery solely to give some amusement to the crowd.

It is better to be remembered for that rather than to not be remembered at all.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 17:48
"Geoffrey Boycott apologises 'unreservedly' for perceived racist comments during first England vs. West Indies Test."

[www.mirror.co.uk]

It was most certainly a crass comment.

Perhaps Boycott should realise that the Knighthoods handed out to West Indian players are not necessarily British knighthoods.

For example, I believe that Richards' honour was bestowed upon him by the Government of Antigua, as was probably Curtly Ambrose's.

On that basis alone, I discount their relevance in Britain, as should perhaps Boycott.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 20:08
Boycott's an ass. I've been saying that for forty years, and have yet to come across any evidence to the contrary.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 20:17
Boycott is an idiot, as is anyone who thinks his comments display racism rather than simple idiocy.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 22:03
Maybe Boycott believes the Democratic People's Republic of Yorkshire should have its own honours system.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Farmer White (IP Logged)
22 August, 2017 22:23
On leg spinners I once met Godfrey Evans, briefly, perhaps about five years before he died. He was presented at a cricket talk I went to. Can't remember why. I took the chance at the end to introduce my young teenage son to him so that he could say he had once met Godfrey Evans. He doesn't remember of course but I do.

My son was bowling leg spin at the time and so I introduced him as such. Evans' eyes lit up and his tired frame suddenly became animated. "Leg spinner! Leg spinner! I loved leg spinners. Plenty of chances! Plenty of chances!" he said almost hopping about and then the moment passed.

One meeting my son does remember was with Shane Warne. I entered him into a national newspaper competition for a one off coaching session with Warne. He won one of the ten places and off we trouped to somewhere in deepest Surrey for the session conducted by Alec Stewart and Warne on the 1992 Ashes tour I think.

After an hour or so of coaching the lads they were all allowed one ball at Warne fully padded and gloved up. Warne gently knocked the ball back to each contender in turn. My son was last in the queue. He hit Warne on the pad straight in front of the stumps. Warne immediately said, "That's out! Well bowled! Got to be honest with yourself if you are to get on lads."

I complimented my son on having the nous to bowl Warne a straight one when all the others had bowled legspinners especially as he used to turn his leg break quite a bit. He replied, "I didn't. I put a real tweak on it but they gave me a smooth ball with no seam at all and it went straight through." Got to be honest with yourself I suppose.

It would have been wonderful though to have been the father of a son who out thought Shane Warne with a cricket ball. I was tempted to leave out the bit about the seamless ball but as the man said: Got to be honest with yourself.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Wickham (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 08:17
If your son had been Shane Warne, he would have given that delivery a name - such as zooter - and proclaimed it to be his new mystery delivery.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Bobstan (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 11:57
There are those - I will mention no LoLs - who are appalled that as a boy I had a WK hero (Godfrey) who was not Harold Stephenson. You may be in trouble, JCW.

Godfrey was interesting in that I can think of no subsequent WK whose performances for England differed so much from his county form. In Tests he was superb, for Kent he really wasn't. As my county keeper I would far rather have had Arthur McIntyre.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 12:24
I need no winding up when it comes to reminiscing about the great Harold Stephenson, without doubt Somerset's finest ever keeper. Obviously, we were biased in favour of our man in those distant days, but I think we particularly disliked what we regarded as the showy style of Evans ("Always showing off" is what we thought of him) compared with the unobtrusive brilliance of Stephenson ("stumped Stephenson bowled Lawrene" before you could blink).

Treasured memories indeed.



LoL

Sixty-nine Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Farmer White (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 12:34
I never met Harold Stephenson but I did meet a man who did. I could I suppose say I shook hands with a man who shook hands with the Prince of WKs. The person concerned had been a club wicket keeper all his cricketing life. He met Stephenson on a cruise and they spent some time together chatting in the corner of the bar. Apparently the main point of interest between them was an extended comparison of their knarled, misshapen hands.

If it helps LoL I am happy to shake your hand next time we meet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/08/2017 12:36 by Farmer White.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Bobstan (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 12:47
It was Godfrey's ebullience and obvious enthusiasm, that may have bordered on showing off, which so endeared him to his England colleagues. It kept them going through long days in the field.

Has his out-of-character record of batting for 97 minutes before scoring in a Test ever been surpassed? Those who have every Wisden since the start of the 20th Century may be able to find out. Or those who know how to use the internet.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 12:50
After years of communicating with Bobstan my hands are too gnarled to open my Wisdens. Allenby's knuckles are in perfect shape in comparison.



LoL

Sixty-nine Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
mikeindex (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 14:43
I think Geoff Allott of NZ batted just over 100 minutes for 0 a few years back.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Bobstan (IP Logged)
23 August, 2017 16:45
Ah, thanks, Mike. Stuart Broad 103 mins before notching a run.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
25 August, 2017 12:54
Quote:
Farmer White
I never met Harold Stephenson but I did meet a man who did. I could I suppose say I shook hands with a man who shook hands with the Prince of WKs. ...
If it helps LoL I am happy to shake your hand next time we meet.

I am sure we DID shake hands, JCW, when we met earlier in the summer - if we didn't actually do so, we certainly did so in spirit, for we discovered much in common in our approach to the world, of which cricket is just a little part.

I think you are already aware that in my teens I got to know Harold Gimblett well through my friendship with his son. So that gives you one vicarious honour. I can offer you even greater glory by telling you (as I wrote on this site before you were a regular contributor) that in the latter half of the Sixties I played cricket in Uganda on many Saturdays in the same side as one Hugh Dinwiddy, who died in his late nineties a few years ago. As a young man Hugh had played some first-class matches for Cambridge University and Kent. In one match Hobbs was on the opposing side and in another there was Bradman. He is believed to be the last man to die who had played against both those greats. It is no secret which of the opponents he found to be the kindlier man.

So you are only a couple of shakes away from members of a truly celestial team.



LoL

Sixty-nine Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
25 August, 2017 19:31
Is this the Hugh Dinwiddy who was my History tutor at Royal Holloway around 1979/82?!

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
25 August, 2017 20:21
No, I don't think so, for I believe it was his nephew John Dinwiddy who taught at Royal Holoway. He was also a very good cricketer with whom I played several matches.



LoL

Sixty-nine Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
25 August, 2017 21:05
I saw him play in staff and, I think, local club matches. Thanks LoL.

 
Re: England v West Indies Test series
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
28 August, 2017 09:54
Was this a no-ball? [www.bbc.co.uk]

Most people thought so, the man that mattered didn't.

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