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DeanSwift
Does it feel like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
DeanSwift (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 14:51
thoughts?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/08/2017 14:51 by Grockle.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 15:04
Here till 2019



(Sm72)

 
DeanSwift
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
DeanSwift (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 15:10
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 15:57
It's an actual thing according to him good or bad.

To some on here it will never be a good thing irrespective of what happens in the next two seasons.

The club gave him a two year extension which will keep him here. Not sure who was involved in that decision, it seemed to be fait accompli done quite quickly.

Somerset have been a side in transition for a while now. He may find he has the newer squad next year in a position he did not want them in.

Is this position MM's creation? Is this just natural? Is there some conspiracy to keep him in place? You'll get all answers here.

Probably six of one and half a dozen of another in the end.



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 16:04
It is an actual thing according to him.

But the man doesn't employ himself.

If we want a real guide on this we presumably need to hear from Mr Cooper on this point - and it's unlikely to be appropriate for him to say anything until the season is over.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 16:11
He's not going to say it in an interview if he is uncertain of his position AG no matter what you think is going on in the committee rooms.

Not after the last month. MM has no intention of leaving and no one is telling him he is in trouble and may have to leave.

You wanna put your money where your pseudo psycho analysis is and lay odds on him NOT being here next season? More money than sense if you do.



(Sm72)

 
Clarence Parker
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 16:38
Maynard has been here for 3 years, but IMO the make - up of the squad (both in terms of composition, strength and age) has not been particularly ideal for years - even going back to before Maynard's tenure.

Look at the ages of some of our present squad: -

Trescothick 41
Trego 36
Allenby 35
Myburgh 36

plus several others in their 30's.

Alfonso Thomas went on till he was about 38 I believe.

There is then generally a marked gap between them and our younger players who are making a name for themselves at First Team level.

The Overtons, Gregory, Abell, Leach, Bess & Co. are all in their early / mid twenties. The drawback is that there is very little aged in between to replace the 'Seniors', so when they go (and some or all of them could at the end of this season) the young players will have to grow up and step up quicker than perhaps is ideal without the presence of senior players in the team.

This re - building should have started in Nosworthy's time here, and despite him having done some good things whilst he was with us he didn't, by means of appropriate recruitment, address the situation.

I think that Maynard has followed a similar route. We have some promising young players, some of whom will be found wanting and be on their way. Others hopefully will be here for years to come.

The question was - "Have we gone backwards under Matthew Maynard?"

IMO, we haven't moved forwards, and will have to bite the bullet as to whatever happens.

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 16:45
Yes, the youth development side of the club has had spell where it didn't really produce enough players and that has left a gap. Of course, the two that were produced got away for different reasons - the two 'keepers.

As I mentioned before, since James Hildreth's debut very little came through on the batting front with the exception of those two.

Grockle mentioned the likes of Wood and Edwards but they debuted before Hildreth.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 16:51
Have to agree with Clarence about the age issue. We lost a bunch of 20 somethings at the same time through injury etc and therefore found ourselves with a distinct lack of middle 20 year old players at a time when we needed to say goodbye to some 30 somethings. This made introduction difficult and transition a little less stable because of the age gap.

How much of a problem this has been and who should have got hold of it is the matter of debate. Nosworthy looked to the young but his tactics for using them was very strange at times. MM has moved some on and left others in favour of experience. He also seems to have a pigeon hole mentality in some areas - seeing some players as one dimensional in terms of format.

This may change next year depending on the end of this year.



(Sm72)

 
Clarence Parker
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 20:01
If you agree with anything that I write Grockle, it will deny me any Street Cred when I next visit the County Ground.

TIC.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 August, 2017 21:17
Well there's a shame then Clarence. If those who you know base their view of Somerset on disagreeing with me then it's a sad situation I hope they grow out of one day.

When you post something in a considered way I probably will agree with you. There are some aspects that aren't brilliant and they need to be recognised.

My opinion is one of many and I'm happy that very few see it as a deviant view of Somerset as a county. Few i know need me to give them street cred. I'm just happy that I talk about this with like minded posters who see Somerset as an unfinished project with good and bad aspects and appreciate both sides of that picture in a realistic and balanced way.



(Sm72)

 
Monkey Butler
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Monkey Butler (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 10:24
I think we have been pretty good in bringing through youth. Until recently we have struggled to bring through enough batting prospects, but Byrom, Rouse along with others are on the fringes of stepping in regularly.

I don't really know why we need players in-between the ages of the younger players and older players? Are they more likely to get poached? Counties will go after good players, Compton wasn't a young gun when he left.

Presuming we don't have a mass exodus of our younger talent. The players are already there to take the mantle from the older pros. Gregory and Abell have both captained the team this season. Gregory would make sense to captain the one day side next year.

We even have batting talent coming through now. Rouse and Byrom look like they may be able to make the step up.

Maynard has made a lot of mistakes in the way he has managed his resources (and not supported them with coaching). But he has also helped oversee the decision to help turn taunton into a results pitch (which we need if we don't want to just make up the numbers.

I am of the belief that he isn't the man to take us forward. However, I'd rather have him taking us forward than Nosworthy.

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 11:16
Apart from the Houghton business, his biggest mistake was probably the recruitment (and continued selection) of Jim Allenby.

Surely MM was very closely acquainted with Jim's game and its level of quality, and so he should have been better placed than most to realise that Jim wasn't capable of the step up to CC1 level...

.. However, my suspicion is that Maynard was, himself, insufficiently acquainted with the standards required in CC1, having been coaching abroad, in CC2 etc and I think this may have been the problem - that he underestimated the standards of CC1 and thus thought Jim would be up to it.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 11:19
Players who are good enough ought to get their chance. The only reason why people feel better if there is an age spectrum across the side is for continuity. As people move out at the top, people move in at the bottom and the core is strong and dynamic. As players develop they learn from the established experience and are pushed by the new talent.

A few years ago because of a few problems we lost part of our core. That affected progression, competition and side development. The transition hasn't been smooth and its affected balance I think.

Not an easy situation for anyone to come into and you may be right that it didn't fit MM's particular skill set. It certainly didn't fit DN's.

As we develop next year it may fit MM a little more. Have to hope so. Don't think there's any chance of a change in the DoC.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/08/2017 11:20 by Grockle.

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 11:25
The question is: If there is really no chance of a change in DoC, come hell or high water, then is that really because there is no better man for the job, or is it more because we don't want to eat two years of the contract that the man was awarded 12 months ago?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 12:33
What difference does it make? How does knowing one way or the other make anything change



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/08/2017 12:38 by Grockle.

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 12:42
Because the former reason would be a good reason to keep somebody, the second one a bad reason.

Equally, if it's the first reason then that opinion might change whereas if we just cannot afford to pay-off his contract, then that's presumably a budgetary fact and unlikely to change, come hell or high water.

As to 'Why does it make anything change?" you do realise that you could say that about almost any question and answer given on this board..

For example "Do we know if Jamie Overton will be fit for the final few games?"

Answer "There's no point in us knowing because it won't change the fact of whether or not he's fit, so there's no point in our knowing the information."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/08/2017 12:55 by AGod.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 12:59
Jamie's fitness is an entirely different thing. If he's fit he plays. If he isn't he doesn't. If MM is the best we can get then he is the DoC in 2018. If his contract is too expensive to break he is the DoC in 2018. How are they the same

What is important is how effective he is not why he is there.



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 18:25
As for the 'efficacy question,' the ledger shows that, in Matthew's 3 seasons we've done quite well in 50 over cricket, poorly in T20 cricket and have had one good vs two bad seasons in the CC.

That doesn't particularly scream 'effective,' does it?

And the club accounts still say we're a top 25% wage payer so excuses about 'little old Somerset,' lack weight.

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 20:58
if I heard correctly AGod, at the Q & A last week, it was stated the Club players wage bill was one the three highest of the counties, as a percentage of income.

I did try to ask if I heard correctly at the end of the meeting but unable to speak to Guy or M.M.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 22:05
I think that is probably right Roger. It may fall next year. I think the club are quite proud of their percentage investment in cricket as a whole but there must be some big incomes at Taunton. Some have been there a long time and will be on big deals one would imagine.

If some go and they are replaced by younger guys who have come through the Academy it might decrease bit I'm not sure it will be significant.



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 22:07
Yes, indeed, Roger.

I checked through the accounts the other week, and two separate things have been said in recent times:

a) We are in the upper quartile (top 25% of 18) in terms of total playing wage bill.

b) We are in the top two ( I think it was?) in terms of percentage of our total income which is spent on cricket.

So two different statements, the first of which shows that we pay a lot of money, in absolute terms, on wages compared to 75% of other counties and the second of which shows that we are directing a relatively very high percentage of our total income to the playing side of the club.

Only the first statement is relevant in terms of whether or not we should regard ourselves as being a smallish club and, therefore, have low expectations, results wise.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 22:16
Why is the first statement the only one that is important in your opinion AG?



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 22:30
The second statement tells one nothing about the absolute amount of money spent, that's why.

For example, if Derbyshire were number one in terms of % of their total income (from all sources) expended on cricket and Surrey were number two, then this would tell you absolutely nothing useful about the financial resources that Derbys are able to bring to bear, relative to Surrey.

In fact, Surrey are a good example. Their total turnover is huge compared to us. But because their income is so large and because (thankfully) a salary cap is in operation, they actually spend a far, far lower percentage of their total turnover on cricket than we do... but what's relevant in terms of how competitive we should expect our club to be is the absolute amount of money that we can spend on wages compared to our rivals in CC1.
..

... And, from the figures presented, we must conclude that there are (or have been in recent seasons) 4-5 CC1 sides that have less spending power, wage-wise than we do (or at least have chosen to spend less than we have).

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
15 August, 2017 22:40
But as a 'small' county it tells us that we invest a largish amount of our limited income in the sport the club is set up for which is significant.

A figure that would be useful is how much of the spending is on the wage bill I suppose but a club investing a larger percentage of its total income in its product must at least see that as important - depending on what that percentage is.

It also tells a supporter that they are spending money on more than just the professional squad numbers - as long as their spending is not just on wages (which I believe is the case at Somerset however large our wage bill is)

In our case as well, as we make an operating profit it suggests investment in the sport rather than simply maintaining the debt created by cricket related assets that they have overspent on.

I'd love to see what the spending is on but it is certainly significant that the club sees cricket as marginally more important than others perhaps?



(Sm72)

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
16 August, 2017 12:11
Personally I feel the Club do very well financially for a "small" club, very difficult to compare us with the likes of Surrey, Middlesex etc, however you look at the accounts.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Feels like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
16 August, 2017 12:46
Very true Roger.



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: Does it feel like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
16 August, 2017 16:20
But unless we're saying that we don't believe the accounts, then what the club is saying is that we out-spend (in absolute terms) all but 3 (or possibly 4) other counties (the calculation is that we are in the top 25% of 18 teams. Obviously 18 is not exactly divisible by 4)

Therefore, if we are getting "bang for our buck," then we should expect to be one of the foremost counties, seriously competing to win things and, dare I say, actually winning things on occasion.

To have won nothing since Mr Smith led us to victory over Mr Flintoff at The Oval in 2005 is a poor return for the amount of money that this club has invested in player wages over that period (the same line has been in the accounts for years and years and years, showing that we've been outspending other counties for years and years and years). The powers-that-be who have produced commercial success at the bank would have a right to feel that they have been let down, at least somewhat, by those to whom they have paid such relatively high wages (compared to other counties).

Back in the 1980's, for example, when our position in the relative wage paying table would have been nothing like as high (I think we'd have been near the bottom of it) then it ought to have been a surprise when we did well (as it would reflect punching above our weight).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/08/2017 16:24 by AGod.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Does it feel like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
Grockle (IP Logged)
16 August, 2017 16:25
Don't we have a number of guys who have had long careers at the ground though? One might argue that we have got more 'bang for our buck' than Surrey in a number of recent years.

It will be interesting to see how the wage bill alters if some of the players do move on at the end of the season.



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: Does it feel like we are going backwards under Matthew Maynard
AGod (IP Logged)
16 August, 2017 16:35
It will, indeed, be interesting.

Common sense suggests that in cricket, as in more mundane occupations, greater seniority tends to bring greater pay. And we may shed at least three very experienced men, perhaps four.

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