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AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 09:36
I'm not sure what you mean with your question - you know full well that we have CR now, so I assume that's not what you mean.

So far as I'm aware there was no batting coach in DN's first season. Presumably he thought he did not need one - and at least he was less stubborn on this point than MM wa, changing his mind after one poor year of batting, rather than waiting it out for two full seasons a la MM.

I have no idea who the batting coach was, if any, under Brian Rose - can anyone else help?

But one thing we can say, of course, is that for several of Brian's seasons Mr Trescothick was peerless so if we didn't have one, maybe that helped us get by without. Per the other thread Marcus has been better, since 2007, in terms of run scoring by more than 20% than anybody else (and we all know that most of those runs came before DN or MM took over)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2017 09:37 by AGod.

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 09:41

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 09:41
Chunky - is Dave Houghton still in charge of batting at Middlesex?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Grockle (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 09:43
I've read very little criticism if Chris on here yet the batting has not exactly turned a corner. Why shouldn't I be referring to him? Is he Mr Teflon?



(Sm72)

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 09:55
Did not Peter Sanderson have the title of Batting Coach for several years, he quotes so in his CV.

Was given various roles during his prolonged time with the Club, now at Taunton School.

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 09:56
According to him, Matthew has him spend his time overwhelmingly with the second XI. You could say "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?" but, to be fair, I think he said this very early in the season. Chris said something about 'oh, first team players don't really need coaching,' or something like that earlier in the season.

So what happens to the first XI? Your guess is as good as mine.. does Matthew still deal with the first XI himself? Did Matthew never deal with the first XI, and instead spent the last two years coaching the second XI batsmen?

If the first XI batsmen have received next to no coaching since DH left, that might explain quite a lot.

But, whichever way you want to look at it:

a) It's Matthew's decision as to whether or not we have a batting coach.

b) It's Matthew's decision as to who we hire.

c) It's Matthew's decision as to how he directs that coach to work (viz time with firsts or seconds).

I note that, when DH was signed, DN said that DH would work across the entire club - clearly implying that he wouldn't be restricted just to the seconds which is what Rogers was saying about this season.

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 10:02
Whilst looking for the article with CR's comments, I instead found this, which I don't believe has been shared on here before. It might be interesting for anybody with any interest in coaching.. it's a piece written by Chris Rogers all about his approach to coaching...

[cricketmentoring.com]

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 10:06
[www.somersetcountycc.co.uk]

Here's the piece I was looking for. To be fair, CR doesn't say that he hasn't worked with the firsts, just that it's difficult to have that much impact on them.

However, as folks will see, the thrust of his first article is all about how even the best batsmen should be constantly seeking to make adjustments to improve so, if Chris has found that he hasn't been able to have so much impact on first-teamers, that may not be because he, himself, does not believe that changes are desirable .. perhaps we have batsmen like those in the sub-heading to Chris's own piece... ones that do not want to change..

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 10:19
Roger- yes, it seems that Peter was batting coach from 2008-2012 after which he became 'club analyst.'

[uk.linkedin.com]

I note that Mr Sanderson mentions lots of first-team players but I've no idea whether that's because he did loads of work with them, more so than the seconds, or simply because it looks good on his career history to namecheck them!

 
Bagpuss
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 10:24
Sky Cricket have a 'coaching session' on the Saturday morning prior to the start of play in the Test match. Last Saturday the guest was Marcus. Too much to recall or go into here; the session covered how his batting developed and evolved over his career-particularly his international career. The bit on how he batted v spin particularly good.

He did say that he was still looking to learn and improve, and there were things he worked on with Matt Maynard last off season.

Also interesting that Nasser Hussain commented on how quickly and easily he picked up on tips and adapted whilst he was with England whilst others (Flintoff the named example) would take months of work for changes to become established.

I don't know if Sky has an iPlayer equivalent but worth watching

 
Bagpuss
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 10:26
Jimmy Cook used to spend some early season time as a batting consultant during the Brian Rose years.

 
Bobstan
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Bobstan (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 10:45
Was Cook not also batting coach at Glamorgan during Matthew Maynard's last season there?

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 11:54
Quote:
AGod
or simply because it looks good on his career history to namecheck them!


I think you are correct...... long time Mates of Marcus, and Kerr also.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Grockle (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 12:40
Did David Houghton work primarily with the firsts then?

The certainty that Rogers did most of his work with the seconds has turned to he might have.

If our batting coach... Rogers assessment was there was little he could do with the firsts and so he was directed to work with the seconds.... MM has power over this. Why isn't Matt getting some credit for Eddy, Adam Hose, Tim, etc? Why aren't BOTH the DoC and his batting coach getting slated for not dealing with first team problems?

As always....something goes wrong DoC's fault.

Something works WITHIN the structure no credit to DoC. It happens despite him.

Criticise by all means but not EVERYTHING is wrong so not everything MM controls turns to.........



(Sm72)

 
Farmer White
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Farmer White (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 12:42
Here is a bit of clarity:

[www.somersetcountycc.co.uk]

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 12:51
So it sounds to me as though the ECB very possibly objected to any plan to potentially bowl Jamie before the end of the season.

 
Loyal of Lhasa
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 16:03
I am sure we all wish LG and JO a thorough recovery between now and Christmas. It would be good if the ECB has some representative cricket in mind for them in the early months of next year.



LoL

Seventy Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Grockle (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 16:12
Beat me to it Farmer.

This is the clear stuff we'd like to have. We know it all but it is gleaned from this but and that bit rather than being a clear statement from the club. I was looking for the press release that clarified it but the website pretty much tells it as it is.



(Sm72)

 
Tom Seymour
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Tom Seymour (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 17:52
I have never before heard of a club discussing a player's future with the ECB's medical team.

Jamie Overton is probably always going to be a player who is fit one minute and then off for half a season or more the next. He has not I’m afraid proved to be a sound investment in the six seasons since his debut, and before long the club is going to have to cut their losses and, sad as it may appear to some, say enough is enough.

When I saw him play at Taunton for the England Under 19 side some years ago, I was excited by the promise that he showed. Don’t think that Craig was on the scene then. Not quite sure what has happened since to Jamie, but his stats. in the CC are very mediocre and he has missed huge chunks of several seasons to boot.

Lewis Gregory’s condition is also a worry, not for the first time. To his great credit he has shown a willingness to play when obviously not fully fit, and I hope his surgery next week goes well.

Some Somerset pace bowlers who had to give up the game through injury were mentioned on here recently. The player who I feel was the biggest loss to the game in recent years was Matt Bulbeck. He was tipped by those in the know for International honours but similarly a back condition was the reason for him quitting the game at the age of 23.

At the time people were saying that his back problem was accentuated and worsened by the demands of the fitness work required of him. That may be right and it may be wrong or it may be partly right or wrong. But looking at the subsequent breakdown of our young fast bowlers, I wonder if anyone at the club has taken on board the possibility that it may be true.

The club always needs to be on the lookout for bowlers (in particular pace bowlers) because a couple of injuries or early retirements means our resources are very limited.

Good luck to them both, but I am not overly optimistic that they will be on the scene for many years to come.



A glass half - empty or a glass half - full?
Regardless, both glasses need filling up.

 
chunkyinargyll
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 17:54
AGod- sorry for late reply to your question (I do get out sometimes!)-

Yes, Dave Houghton still Middlesex batting coach.

Prefers to be low profile. I don't think he's given an interview all season.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Grockle (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 22:00
Has Jamie actually missed 'huge chunks' of 'several seasons'? I'm seriously asking anyone with the data.

Enjoyed watching Matt play in those days but I struggle to recall experts in the field at the time suggesting that his injury was 'accentuated and worsened' by the fitness regime he was under. I think Matt was playing in the time when regulations were in place to protect young bowlers and as the people dealing with Matt were professionals then he really ought to get the experts who said that to put it in writing so that he can sue the trainers for professional malpractice if that was the case.

Some bowling actions can take it and others can't. Caddy's could. Matt's couldn't. Paul Bird lost his shoulder. Dibble hardly made it off the table. A decade of bowling through injury and poor professional management nearly did for Johnno. The guys who seemingly did for Matt put Johnno back in an England shirt.

I'm also not sure how you marry your view of two bowlers together. In one paragraph you seem to be accusing professionals of aiding in the destruction of another professionals career while earlier on you congratulate Lewis for playing through injury - putting his own well being at risk.

Horses for courses I suppose. Maybe you should pop around to Daz Venness with Matt Bulbeck and suggest he destroyed Matt as a bowler. Or maybe ask Matt for his opinion. He is still about the place.

It's a delicate and dangerous business being a fast bowler but I don't think any of them get to Jamie's level nowadays without many discussions with medical professionals if they are being looked after properly.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2017 16:22 by Grockle.

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 22:48
I'm somewhat bemused that, as per Maynard's comments on the website we seem to have allowed LG to over-rule the surgeon.

There seems to be the suggestion that, even though he doesn't need an operation, Jamie cannot possibly bowl at the moment for fear of long-term consequences whereas, although LG definitely needed one, it was fine to let him elect to defer it.

I thought that LG had a stress fracture whereas Jamie's is supposed to have been that 'hot spot,' business which is a weakness with the potential to become a stress fracture, but not an actual fracture.

Either way, it's very worrying that both have had so many back issues.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Grockle (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 23:40
But wasn't it the case that whatever Lewis' injury was it wasn't doing any more damage but pain control was short term only. Not sure how those two marry together but there ya go



(Sm72)

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 07:57
Well let's hope the surgery went well and that he will soon be well on the road to recovery.

He produced some yeoman efforts this season.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Grockle (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 10:10
We all hoped he'd be a bit òf both and it's turning out that way. At least if the back unfortunately does not hold up he is still a batsman who can help us in the future. Hope it all goes well.



(Sm72)

 
Mike BOS
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 16:36
Email from the club.

Johann Myburgh has become the latest Somerset player to put pen to paper on a new deal.

The 36 year old has signed a contract which will keep him at the Cooper Associates County Ground for all white-ball cricket next season. This means that he will be available for both the NatWest T20 Blast and the Royal London One-Day Cup competitions in 2018.


Some of our feelings on Johann were correct, I am happy with that news.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/09/2017 16:56 by Mike TA1.

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 16:56
As per rumour last week, just news awaited on Josh Davey.

 
AGod
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
AGod (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 17:00
Well good news on Mybs but still have no idea viz the apparent refusal to even consider the man for red-ball cricket. If he were too injured to even be considered for red ball cricket next season, then it seems unlikely that we'd be giving him a new contract for white ball stuff. He definitely wanted to play red ball this season as he said as much on the radio. Perhaps that's no longer the case so far as next season is concerned but the club announcement being worded in this way seems to make it clear that he won't be seen in red ball.

 
mikeindex
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
mikeindex (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 17:03
Remarkable - I doubt I would have signed a new contract in JM's place.

Perhaps he sees his livelihood as lying mainly in sports tuition in the near-to-medium future and, sensibly enough, is happy to gain extra income from a contract which will see him employed, if at all, mainly in the school holidays.

Will this mean that, being on Somerset's books, he is eligible to play in the Championship too (academic commitments permitting)? Just in case of injuries/international calls impacting on our top order?

 
wsm fan
Re: So here's a bit of Clarity
wsm fan (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 17:27
Davey is already under contract for next season.
So i believe that is everyone known now.

The reading between the lines suggests Myby has not played red ball this season as he is now white ball only. Whether it wholly our choice or his i for one dont know.

Obviously the best assumption on here is to batter Maynard for not picking him this season but maybe Myby had no desire or contract to do so?

Anyway we now know how we lie moving forwards. All eyes on the upcoming 100% bore draw at the Oval.....

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