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Grockles.com
Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockles.com (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 13:19
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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chunkyinargyll
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 14:24
'I am not the Kim Jong Un or the Donald Trump of Grockles'

We know that.

More like Basil Fawlty.

[www.youtube.com]

(Sm100) TiC (Sm100)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 14:54 by Grockle.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 14:57
Possibly. I've certainly known that level of frustration with certain situations at certain times.



(Sm72)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 20:20
I've removed two posts from here. Posters (Tom Seymour and Cricketharris) who say this is all about me.

In Tom's case it is because he simply posted to say he won't comment and in CH's case because he simply seems to want to fight me. I've referred him to the PM system

I'm happy to remove this whole thing if people think it is about 'me'. I thought it was about the site and what might need changing in the way we deal with each other or whatever. I'd rather not talk about 'me'.

Please either attack me personally via PM and I'll happily accommodate you or come on here and talk about Grockles without personalising it. You've been given ample opportunity to attack me - that avenue has been open to you for nearly 10 years but very few have used the thread given over to that very function in that time.

If you think this site is about 'me' and you don't like that/me then I can only suggest that you stop posting on it and find something else. Either that or explain yourself and suggest ways in which the site can be depersonalised from the 'me' bit.

CH says I don't 'get it'. Well sir explain 'it' without the personal aggression and maybe we can do something about 'it'.

One suggestion I have had is that I remove posters with a negative attitude. Then we wouldn't have this would we? But I'm personally of the opinion we might lose more than that. Am I wrong?

Some people think Grockles has lost something. I'm just opening the conversation to see if we can find out what it is.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 20:39 by Grockle.

 
cricketharris
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
cricketharris (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 20:40
Shouldn’t you remove your post of 20.20, Grockle? Or , at least, the personal parts.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 20:45
Nope CH.

If you read the material above I did say that if people couldn't keep their own personal aggression out of the posts I would try and take it out for them but give their opinions if possible. If you want them to be anonymous I'm happy to remove them so let me know but you posted under your own pseudonym the first time around so I assumed it would be OK.


I'll remove them if you'd rather I did.



(Sm72)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 21:28
I have another post to try and summarise from a poster who wants to personalise this entirely. It is a point I am sure he/she will find many agreeing with him/her about. It is relationships between posters.

Posters dislike it when they are shown disrespect so don't do it to others. Mutual respect makes for better dialogue.

I added to that the point that some have been here a long time and expect certain responses from those they interact with here.

Sometimes they expect that to be disrespectful and react quickly and sometimes inaccurately because of that.

If something seems to be 'iffy' do we have to immediately react to it? Is it not possible to check whether we have the right end of the stick first? We have a PM system for a reason and we don't use it enough

Could we all work on changing relationships we have with people we think we 'know' but only via text which is not a great medium for providing meaning?

Could we make a post clearer? (TiC) emoticons to show humour or whatever?

Should we count to 10 before we respond?

Should we respond at all?

Accepting something is wrong is one thing. Accepting we may all have some responsibility for it being wrong or for putting it right is another.

Are we all so perfect that it is all someone else's fault in every case? Isn't improvement a two way thing?

Do both sides of the problem want to improve things for the mutual benefit of all and if not should that be allowed to stand?

Sorry there is more than the initial post from my posting colleague. Got away from me a little.



(Sm72)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2018 09:45 by Grockle.

 
Shepton Paul 2
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 21:37
I love the site - the pub-style comment and banter that keeps an exile like me in touch with the county I call home.

I get a bit fed up with the petty squabbles and one or two who seem only ever to be negative about individual players, the club or the sport - tho I'll admit to my own hypocrisy in being happy with often-unfair negativity towards Surrey, the ECB and Australia - as long as it's largely good-natured, it's fine. On the whole, it's a shame to have lost the likes of Frome Exile and Big Jim, but Farmer White's reports are a great addition.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 21:51
Thanks Shepton. I miss some who graced the pages as well. I hope BJ may be in a position to return at some time. But as one door closes another opens re Farmer White and others.

Has the world just become squabblier?

I also take the point about the constant negativity but is the solution to remove that entirely? Should we require balance and if we do, how do we impose it?

The post above does highlight that we can be more aware of squabbles if that is a major issue.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2018 09:46 by Grockle.

 
Grizzzly
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
12 June, 2018 23:04
Love the site, the jocularity, the forthright (& occasionally informed) opinions and all of us (some more than others - ahem !) wearing our hearts on our sleeves. Plus of course, Mike's photo's.

Don't think 'negative' posts should be removed, (unless they are abusive/offensive). One man's 'negativity' is another persons constructive criticism !

Here's to another 20 years.

Grizzzly

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 09:35
Thanks Grizzz. I understand those who feel the squabbles and negativity take away from the general nature of Grockles that you identify.

Some seem to find it difficult to compatrmentalise that and it has led to people making a decision to decrease or end their involvement. But is the site honest if it does not allow those comments inside the rules?

In a good season there is less of it but I know you and I have both found ourselves agreeing with a promminent 'dissenter' in part quite recently.

The reason we have been able to do that is because moderation has caused adaptation and posts of a less abrasive personal manner with points worth making and discussing in them from said poster. Is that progress or "kowtowing'?

Blanket bans might see a handful of posters disappear and a return to more 'cosy' times but is that the aim of a site discussing Somerset cricket where things are rarely 'cosy' for long?

I think I'm with you but still looking for the fabled... 'middle way'



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2018 09:47 by Grockle.

 
Loyal of Lhasa
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 11:14
Some very sensible stuff here, notably from SP2 and Grizzzzly. I too greatly appreciate the site, not least because of the friendships it has brought me.

From my point of view I feel that some take everything to do with Somerset cricket just a little too seriously. I admit to becoming passionate about our wonderful team - but only when they are doing well. If they perform less well, I remember that there are worse things in life, as the great Lord Tresco said about his broken foot.

As for the occasional insults and sheer rudeness we sometimes see here, I try to live (though sometimes failing to do so) by my personal mantra which is Never waste your abuse on people you don't actually like. Bobstan, BJ and others will understand.



LoL

Seventy Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Shepton Paul 2
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 13:01
Great mantra, LoL, you old b******

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 13:26
Wise words from the 'Gandalf of Grockles'. I have to say that the initial quite aggressive reaction to this thread did make me think along the same kind of lines. 'Why post if you don't like the concept/site/moderator'.

I am by no means a saint here but the number of times I find myself in personality clashes rather than cricketing clashes after 1 misperceived/ or ill made post on one side or the other has certainly increased in the last few years. It becomes 'banter' with some quite quickly. Flares and goes.

Others it is deeper, aggressive and off the cricket topic very soon. There are those who bear grudges for slights they percieve or have received in the past which colour posts or create agendas they cannot/will not let go of.

As you say LoL. Life is a little short for that stuff and maybe this the the area to build bridges or remove them. It's all grist for the present mill.

Thanks



(Sm72)

 
Loyal of Lhasa
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 14:18
Good to see you understand me, SP2. Not bad for a bloke from Shepton.



LoL

Seventy Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
somexile
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
somexile (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 17:33
As someone who now lives in an extremity of East Anglia and usually get to see Somerset for two days a year I find this site invaluable to keep up to date with events etc.
By going on regularly it does not take long to work out the characters behind their posts. I find some too critical and negative as im sure no one goes to play without wanting to do their best.
farmer White's reports are some of the best piece of writing I have seen on any sport in a long time and sum not only the play but also the atmosphere around the ground.
Long may the site continue.

I might even contribute as will be at Chelmsford for the first day

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 18:19
Well you've been here a while now so you know more about most of us than many.

It is great that we have people in other parts of the world who pick the boys up when they go out of the West into those dangerous parts of the UK!!



(Sm72)

 
cricketharris
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
cricketharris (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 20:30
How can I join in this debate and say what I think about this site without our moderator removing what I write because he doesn’t like it? Generally I gain alot of positives [oh, the jargon) from the postings especially from members who really have something to say and not just post there endless views of what might happen if etc etc. Or one-liners about the state-of-play which mean nothing unless you actually witnessed what is going on. (Most frustrating that].Farmer White’s writings are excellent to understand the days play. It is a shame we cannot send him to away games, too. Bagpuss’s contributions are always worth reading. A fount of news. But there are a two negatives. One is that one or two people seem to post every few minutues with any thought that might be going through there head at that time. Very boring but they can be ignored. It adds nothing to the content of this site except verbiage. The other is the tone of the site when the moderator acts as if it is his fiefdom and he heavy-handedly, but ironically of course, tramples all over posters who may have issued something that he feels he has to chop-down.I don’t mean, what he calls personal abuse but when a posting just contains something that is just an opinion (sometimes a silly one] or some speculation. He has to have the last word even if it to say to get over it and that the world will keep turning or somesuch. It just turns the site into a rather nasty atmosphere - of course always in the name of irony. Other counties sites do not seem to suffer from this edge and conflict. Ours would be far better off and altogether more enjoyable if the moderator moderated himself. Unfortunately, in this pub you cannot avoid him and his agressive manner.He doesn’t agree with this analysis (and, believe me, it isn’t just me that thinks this) and that is what i mean when I say that he doesn’t get it. Nothing will dissuade him from being right. Why can’t we just have just less aggression? I don’t suppose this will be left to be read for long. Cries of abuse from the moderator but he asked for ways of going forward and I believe that he must be one of the the subjects. Now, I’m off to wash a few more pots in this pub.

 
stevecav
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
stevecav (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 20:46
I have a really simple view of this site. I have been a Somerset supporter since the days of McCool, Alley, Stephenson, Langford, Greetham, Roe, Virgin, Palmer, Biddulph, Sully et al. And I used to spend all my school holidays watching Somerset at Taunton, Bath, Weston, Imperial Ground Bristol, even Street(or was it Glastonbury?). Played cricket with a young Dasher in front of the pavilion at Keynsham after a day scoring, and played cricket with Marcus's Dad too. Then adult life got in the way. My chances to see Somerset at Taunton became much less frequent, though I do get to Lords and also Guildford sometimes, but I am as passionate about Somerset cricket today as my three score and ten is about up, as I ever was. In some ways more so now, after the obvious frustrations. My Dad is 94 now and is still desperate for us to win the only thing that matters. We don't live close, but there is NEVER a day when Somerset are in action I don't call him with updates, and on a day like yesterday it was about 10 times.'Keep me posted' he says. Until the last few years - he and I have been our 'Somerset supporters group', because other Somerset supporters to talk to have been rare in my life and his. Since discovering this site about the time of the draw with Warwickshire where we didn't make them follow on, I have been able to feel more in touch with all things Somerset, and more a part of the Somerset community than at any time for about 50 years. I read it all the time, whether I post or not. To me it's an invaluable way to get some clue what is going on down there, and why. And I can keep my Dad posted. And now there's the live feed too which is life changing for a SCCC lover who can't be there. I learnt gradually what was the wrong tone to use if I wanted to avoid Grockle's icy responses. I am amused by some of the relationships which don't always read like we are all on the same side. I would hate to lose this site. Keep up the good work Grockle. And don't let the @#$%& grind you down!

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
13 June, 2018 21:29
I don't think a group of pub regulars is a good analogy for this site really. Somerset (and the West Country) is a massively diverse area socially, and a shared appreciation of cricket doesn't necessarily mean we're going to share anything else, whether in terms of backgrounds, locations, general opinions or ways of expressing ourselves.

With that in mind, we're all going to rub someone up the wrong way at some point: that's inevitable with the anonymous nature of the 'net. But it means you have to react differently from the way you would in a face-to-face conversation around a table. While you might on occasion justifiably take personal offence in the latter situation (where you'd expect people to take into account exactly whom they're talking to), on here, by contrast, you just have to ignore a tone of voice or a background squabble you don't like, and simply deal with the opinion expressed. Play the ball, not the man. It just doesn't work online otherwise.

Put it this way: I've seen characters as diverse as an MP, a grizzled Cary hedgelayer, a Yeovil bookmaker and a Devon racehorse trainer rub shoulders quite civilly at the County Ground, because they instinctively know how not to make it personal. But if they were to be coralled anonymously into an online chatroom, it'd kick off spectacularly, unless each party understood it's NOT personal, despite how it might sound when you read it.

I'm not offering a solution, I'm afraid. Just pointing out that the medium invites friction, and the only people who can diffuse it are the contributors themselves. Moderation can just turn out to catalyse even more seething resentment.

(Edited, spelling)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2018 21:33 by That Bloke With The Dog.

 
Loyal of Lhasa
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 22:48
For the record Somerset used to play an annual CC match at Glastonbury (Avalon Acres for those with long memories) from the early fifties, starting with Harold Gimblett's Benefit Match in 1952, in which the great man scored a century. One year the ground was considered unfit and the match was transferred to Street (the Millfield School ground). I think that is the only time that first-class cricket was played at Street.



LoL

Seventy Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Shepton Paul 2
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 22:55
I saw some of a Som v Notts game at Glastonbury, I'd guess circa 1972-ish - I remember Sobers and Basher Hassan batting for Notts...I think.

 
stevecav
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
stevecav (IP Logged)
13 June, 2018 23:56
Somerset played Warwickshire at Street (Millfield) in July 1961 - I checked - I remember it because big Jim Stewart made a hundred.

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
14 June, 2018 09:35
I came to Grockles many decades after starting to follow Somerset but have found it sufficiently vibrant and really informative.

It would be nice if someone from the club at a community level made themselves known with semi-official updates from time to time e.g. floodlights, temporary stands, other initiatives. We could then politely challenge them and raise any other points. "Disabled toilets locked before close of play, I'll have a look into that for you"

By this I don't mean someone from the committee to spout about their corporate synergy impact or reaching out on marketing initiatives.

It may serve a purpose alongside the members Q&A sessions, getting to a much wider audience

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
14 June, 2018 10:18
We used to get a little of that from Nashy but it went a little more corporate with Mr Cooper.

Peter Anderson wanted it ONLY that way in the deep past and saw us all as malcontents and dissidents.



(Sm72)

 
kzmccl
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
kzmccl (IP Logged)
14 June, 2018 19:04
After >10 years of reading this site, I just registered in order to second everything that stevecav said because I have a similar history. (I was a Junior Member of SCCC but only went to matches in Bath. I went to school in Keynsham when it was a Grammar School. I moved away after University and later emigrated to the USA, from where at first it wasn't easy to follow the club's endeavours until I could do it through the Internet and especially in the last many years, through grockles.com.)

As stevecav said ... "I would hate to lose this site. Keep up the good work Grockle. And don't let the @#$%& grind you down!"

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
14 June, 2018 19:04
We certainly got off to a dicey start Steve and that was down as much to me as to you.

The difference was that you contacted me off site and we discussed the issues we seemed to have (but found we actually didn't). I think you are the only poster who has come new to the site and done that when it didn't quite go as planned.

Since then the world has become a quieter place for more than just us two and the world moves on. I hope we have both adapted and become a little more thoughtful about posts.



(Sm72)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
14 June, 2018 19:51
How can I join in this debate and say what I think about this site without our moderator removing what I write because he doesn’t like it?

Well CH you can start by reading the initial post in its entirety and follow the request made there.

Your first post was simply an agreement with Mr Seymour about 'him' (me) posting all about ME and commending TS for his courage in saying so. It had little to do with the debate and was particularly personal when I had requested posts not to be.

I offered you PM fisticuffs if you wanted them, toned down both your posts and reposted them as I said I would. So you did 'join the debate' and your point was made just without insulting me in the process.

Thanks for the rest of your second post which is useful and avoids the aggressive and dismissive tone you yourself can use at times but not always - like the rest of us.

There is no need to remove it. There are posters with their little 'foibles'. You mention one who is singularly missing at the moment I hope for no serious reason. Most people point out when he is going a little over the top and many deal with him on an almost affectionate basis. We can ignore his posts if we want to and some do. I rarely have to remove material from them although he can become patronising at times - as can we all.

One thing about him though, repetitive as they are, his posts are almost always about cricket and stay away from other grievances or personal issues with posters - most of the time.

On the basis of operating this site like my 'Fiefdom' well sometimes there is no avoiding that I am afraid. Some people need moderating at times. However I have made every attempt to provide ways in which posters who feel that way can let me know they think I am going over the top without affecting the main flow of the site.

Unfortunately, to date very few of the critics do what is requested, they insist on putting it all in the public view, affecting the use of the site by others and wanting a public punch up. Sometimes they get it but usually now they find I treat the site like a 'fiefdom' and remove their voice because they will not follow their own complaint and keep this stuff off the main site. They then return to complain their voice is not being heard.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I can only think of one time you have used this process yet it seems to bug the hell out of you on a pretty regular basis. Complain CH BUT not in the middle of a thread other people, not involved in your issue with me, are using.

I'd also like to point out, as I have to another poster who has this issue, that I do NOT remove posts without letting the poster know why and offering the right of reply or revision. Most if the time I will hide a post and let the poster decide what to do with it. I also remove posts very rarely. This year I have removed or asked for revision of less than 10 posts and 3 of them are on this thread.

'Why can't we have less agression?' Damn good question. Tell you what, you send a little less my way and I'll do the same. Maybe we'll start a trend and others will follow it?

I stand and fight when I am attacked. Many in that situation have all the traits you identify as mine. I would with respect include you in that when you lose it. We are all as bad as each other. So as you say. Let's all look to avoid starting public punch ups.

Nowadays I walk away from the 'last word' you accuse me of more often than not because I've found that is a way to stop aggression - no response. I would, as I always do, refer you to the number of times I have admitted I am wrong on things but it rarely has an effect on that generalisation. I also don't hold grudges. As LoL says 'Life is too short' and this is just a website.

Backing down when the same argument is put forward over and over again? That's a different thing.

I am part of the problem. I know that. I'd appreciate some help rather than hinderance from other posters to help me deal with my issues. But I'm not the only poster with this particular foible so in some circumstances my response is - I'm looking for ways to sort my issues out, what are you doing about yours?

Aggression on this site does not all come from OR start in Bicknoller Towers so to some of the 'physicians' with their perfect cure. Have a go at healing yourselves while you are at it and the whole place may just be a better environment for all.

I was told when I put most of this in a PM yesterday to a poster that it was POINTLESS talking to me. Well there is no real way to come back from there. If that is where you think you are then I see no way of going forward with you. I am offering to adapt and listen. If your response is that I am not doing that I don't know what to say to you other than 'goodbye'.

Thanks for feeling the need to put this on CH. I hope I haven't marginalised it and I hope there can be forward movement on the conflict front. BUT it is all those who get into these things not just one poster. We have no regular trolls though that does not mean some posters go that route at certain times.

I suppose we'll see whether we can put our keyboards where our complaints are and do a more 'positive' job for the good of all. You are right. Less aggression would be a good place to start.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2018 22:58 by Grockle.

 
Tom Seymour
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Tom Seymour (IP Logged)
15 June, 2018 21:48
"Your first post was simply an agreement with Mr Seymour about 'him' (me) posting all about ME and commending TS for his courage in saying so. It had little to do with the debate and was particularly personal when I had requested posts not to be.

I offered you PM fisticuffs if you wanted them, toned down both your posts and reposted them as I said I would. So you did 'join the debate' and your point was made just without insulting me in the process."


If by mentioning "both your posts" you are referring to my post of 12 June, and Cricketharris's post shortly afterwards, you have not reposted them.


Why do you say you have?

Do you want me to put mine on here again?



A glass half - empty or a glass half - full?
Regardless, both glasses need filling up.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Where and What are we - Introspection Episode 1
Grockle (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 11:13
Missed out 'toned them down' Tom. I refer you to the section of the thread intro;

"If you want to make this personal then can I please ask you to reply by PM rather than using a public forum to vent your spleen? I'd like the discussion on the site to be positive. If you can't do that without aggression then please be aggressive off site and I'll calm it down and put your point on the site with a little less provocation. I do reserve the right to do that anyway if some posters can't manage to do that themselves (it has been known in the past)"

I reposted the main points of both of them. If you want to repost please do but - for the same reason - I will remove it as it simply said this was an ego trip and you wouldn't be commenting further.

Or are you saying that wasn't what the post said?

Repost it to my PM if you think I have been unfair and I'll have another look. However the decision about it being relevant here will remain while I do that - shouldn't take long, it was a short post.

You have decided not to comment here - you have not been banned from relevant comment of the correct nature.

A relevant comment is welcome, disruptive provocation won't be. The latter will include an attempt to debate what your view of 'disruptive provocation' is. If you want to discuss the nature of that then please do it via PM as it has nothing to do with the conversation taking place here (though the result of the discussion may determine the level that is acceptable on Grockles).

We'll hear from you or we won't. Your choice on how you go from here.



(Sm72)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/06/2018 11:56 by Grockle.

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