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05 May, 2019 22:00
Tom did turn up with a grudging sentence or so on one emphatic win of ours.

But does come back with lots when the tide turns. One just has to hope it turns back as predictably so will Mr S. Ignore him WSM he's an aberration.

Yes LoL I was talking about Max as a more permanent member of our 50 ball unit. His 3 starts last year probably confirm the 'myth' I suppose.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2019 22:06 by Grockle.

Somerset LaLaLa
Somerset LaLaLa
05 May, 2019 22:09
Well let's not let one person's comments take over the thread.

Anyway, quick question who has Somerset's best batting average in the RLODC this season?


Keep scrolling down the list, you will come to them eventually

05 May, 2019 22:14
I think it was Overton before today wasn't it?


05 May, 2019 23:08
Still is.

Really puzzled by JL seemingly being out of favour with Jason Kerr re the 50 over format. How is he supposed to show what he can do, if he isn't given the chance ?

I know we have to gauge selection game by game, but as the Hants spinners showed today, a lot of pressure can be generated by taking the pace off the ball.

Possible Team v. Surrey:

1) Banton/SD (both a bit of a risk t.b.h.)
2) Ali
3) Trego
4) Hildreth (please return to genius format, not infuriatingly lackadaisical format).
5) Tom
6) George
7) LG
8) Cove
9) RvdM
10) Jack L
11) Jack B

Suspect more likely that both 'Jacks' will be left out, but with Dom coming in for JD or Jove.


wsm fan
wsm fan
05 May, 2019 23:16
If Dom comes in for a seamer we will only be playing 3 seamers.
From the first 7 matches we have made it clear we dont see Trego or Abell as serious options.
Very very likely it the same team.
Only chance Dom gets is in for George but dont see that.
One of Jason's quotes was he doesn't see us as a 2 spinner side.
Things will be pretty clear by 11am tomorrow as the 2s take on Sussex away.

Somerset LaLaLa
Somerset LaLaLa
05 May, 2019 23:20
A story in February (Daily Mail?!) came up about Jack wanting to seek a loan move to play white ball cricket

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2019 23:21 by Somerset LaLaLa.

05 May, 2019 23:42
My above XI contains seven possible bowlers, (excluding AA):

Seamers: Cove, LG, Jack B, Tom A & PT

Spin: RvdM & Jack (or Dom).

Questions re your/JK's thoughts WsM:

a) Why aren't we willing to look at playing two spinners(especially given that AA has bowled)/what is the downside of doing so ?

b) Don't see any reason why Tom &/or PT can't fulfil the fourth seamer role if needed.

As others have said, and Jack himself has intimated, if we don't use him, we run the risk of losing him.


wsm fan
wsm fan
05 May, 2019 23:47
I'm commenting on what is most likely given tje known facts.

Some want a 2nd spinner. Jason clearly does not.

Some think Tom & Peter are bowling options, again Jason clearly does not.

So from todays 13 (Brooks wasnt there i looked hard) unless we bring back Timmy G then per the above it will be an unchanged team.

06 May, 2019 00:01
Bit late for changes. This side got us here in this position so they should finish it off one way or the other.

If Jack wants white ball then I'm not sure where he plans to go for 50 over. Will he be a T20 option? I'd be very surprised. Dom would be the only slow chabge option.

It's the batting that's not maintaining its quality. Shoving Steve D in doesn't seem a solid option. Eddie would have been in by now so this lot are it for Tuesday I think and they stand or fall as a unit/mess.


06 May, 2019 00:39
Yeah too late to change it now. Should have played the extra spinner in Bristol. Max.

06 May, 2019 07:17
Personally, I think Mr Kerr's comment to have been a lame one.

"We don't think we're a two spinner side."

Presumably, this can be said to mean "We don't think there's a need for two spinners at the moment."

In which case............WHY oh why is Azhar Ali bowling?

Or does Mr Kerr's statement mean something else, more akin to "We don't think we can afford to pick anybody who doesn't have the capacity to score a quick 50 later on, should our batsmen drop us in the brown stuff again"?????

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 08:39 by AGod.

06 May, 2019 07:26
Jack averages 1-46 in List A cricket, at 1.3 wkts per game. Apparently he is "insufficiently proven."

Here are the figures for everyone else, that we have been picking and all of whom, must be (to judge from JK's words) considered ""proven""

Roelof 1.5 wkts per game for 48 runs*

Craig 1.4 wkts per game for 53 runs

Lewis 1.5 wkts per game for 60 runs

Josh 1.2 wkts per game for 54 runs*

Tim 1.2 wkts per game for 56 runs

Jamie 1.2 wkts per game for 63 runs

Roelof and Josh's figures will include some games at high international level, such as the World Cup, but also some lower standard (than county) Associate level international games, I think the combo of some higher level and some lower level probably roughly balance themselves out.

So, what do we have?

3 of the 6 have been *marginally* more penetrative than Jack.

6 of 6 have been more expensive than Jack, some signficantly so.


The idea that Jack is really unproven is more management pet theory than actual reality.

Yes, Jack has played fewer games but through no fault of his own - a few missed through injury (the fractured skull thing, for example) and plenty by simply being ignored for no apparent reason.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 08:52 by AGod.

06 May, 2019 07:33
Whilst I accept that, sadly, WSM is right, and they'll just trot the same lot out again vs the Brown Caps, I reject absolutely the logic that "it's too late to make changes," or whatever the reason for inaction is. Why is it too late? Have those on the sidelines turned into pumpkins? I think not.

As Jason said, in what was, pretty much, a crunch game (Jason didn't say the first bit, that's my reading of that match), we turned in a performance that was all but an embarrassment (he did say that bit).

And we weren't exactly a million miles from being embarrassed at Radlett, either. Anytime you lose by more than 100 runs in a white ball game? Yep, I'd say that's fairly embarrassing.

Yes, I know we had a huge win vs Kent but, let's be honest about that, we played against a very, very severely weakened Kent batting line-up, minus four men who would walk into that team. If it had been Kent at full strength vs SCCC minus four first-choice top six players, how do we think that might have gone? (remembering how most Kent full-strength vs SCCC full strength white ball games have actually gone!)

06 May, 2019 07:37
Anyway, personally, I'd pick both Eddie and Jack for the final game and I'd drop Azhar (has scored too slowly across these games as a whole, failing to take advantage of the powerplay) and one of the seamers (not Craig or Lewis), but otherwise I don't much mind which one. Yes, Pete and/or Tom might have to fill in a few overs BUT - for the love of God, in what universe are Pete and Tom really worse bowling options than Azhar? I mean, really!?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 08:56 by AGod.

06 May, 2019 07:45
I also note that Jason said that Jack has had "limited chances at Second XI level in white ball, too." Jason did **not* say that Jack has been injured or ill recently. Have there not been a number of second XI short form games played recently? In which case, why, on God's green earth, as the GREAT Matthew Jack Leach not been given a chance to play in more than one of them? (according to Cricinfo he played in one of them vs the Welsh). I don't imagine he got many overs, but he had the truly appalling figures, in that game, of, er, 1-8.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 08:51 by AGod.

wsm fan
wsm fan
06 May, 2019 08:37
The quotes re 2 spinners yesterday were from Jason Kerr not Andy Hurry.

Jack has played several of the 2s games in recent weeks. Not just the 1.

06 May, 2019 08:42
Duly corrected, WSM, on the Jason/Andy front.

Evidently, Cricinfo hasn't updated itself recently enough to include the more recent seconds games (last listed for Jack was 23 April). However, his overall career figures for List A will, obviously, be up to date.

06 May, 2019 08:50
Okay, so I've found the two other games that Jack played.

10 overs, 1-40 vs Essex at Billericay. Admittedly, Max also managed decent figures - 1-22 off 7. The Essex spinners, however, got battered on the same surface.

And a game against a University (Exeter) - 8 overs, 1 for 33.

I think Jack was supposed to play against Gloucestershire, but it was washed away.

Somerset LaLaLa
Somerset LaLaLa
06 May, 2019 09:00
The team is being selected to satisfy the players rather than for team.

Banton as a Davies replacement, Azhar because we can't drop an overseas, Trego for his swansong, Abell at 5 as he wants that, Bartlett 6 to help his development, Jove in because we have him and Brooks left out as the newbie.

I've no reason for the spin twins omission and nor apparently does anyone else. At least we're not showcasing them for the Hundred.

The selection won't change much as was already decided a long time ago.

Some players seem visibly frustrated and there was some choice language from Cove on the boundary at Bristol. To his credit he did sign a boys hat yesterday between collecting fours.

Our role in the tournament will now be quickly forgotten, and if we make it to the quarters, some will call it a success.

Edited as I muddled up the semis with quarters and thirds (or whatever they're called)

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 09:09 by Somerset LaLaLa.

06 May, 2019 09:10
By the time Jack gets a chance, it will be in the 50 over competition that the Evil Cricket Board, would prefer nobody watch (next year)

06 May, 2019 09:13
As for keeping our players happy, La La La?

I don't suppose that an England international is thrilled to have played all of one first team match by the 06 May...

Sloop John B
Sloop John B
06 May, 2019 09:19
We need change to break a losing run. JL for me. He will give the Skip a different option.
Jason's obduracy could be our downfall.

06 May, 2019 09:25
Was it the batting that was an issue yesterday or the bowling? So unless Jack bats at 3 not sure what difference it would or in the future make! The batting depth in our squad is the issue.

06 May, 2019 09:43
Is batting depth an issue, Sandhills?

Absolutely it is, albeit that it seems we have some promising players coming through, for the future, with the likes of Lammonby.

However, it's also something that we can't do much about - in the very short-term, wouldn't you concede?

We could have had Mushy and Warne yesterday, and we'd still have lost after our batsmen contrived to take zero advantage of a very fine pitch for batting (not only not much movement, but also some pace and bounce and a consistent pace).

In some of the other games, though, a case could certainly have been made for an additional option - i.e during the epic last wicket stand vs Glam (which was eventually broken by spin), or at Radlett where we gave away what I thought was a total that was too high (Jason seems to think that our batsmen should have chased it down anyway, but even so).

Jason's line about not being a one spinner team is coherent only if we were actually bowling only one spinner in the games. The fact that Tom has been turning to Azhar, rather than himself or Peter would seem to suggest that Tom is hardly convinced that the track and conditions have been loaded in favour of the seamers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 09:44 by AGod.

06 May, 2019 10:00
Marcus Trescothick, Steve Davies, Eddie Byrom, Jack Leach and Jack Brooks - out of the possible replacements tomorrow against Surrey - all playing for a strong Second XI in a Trophy match away to Sussex today.

06 May, 2019 10:06
Dear Agod, Dom Bess played at Cardiff, both he and RVDM had enough overs from recollection after cove took the 9th wicket to bowl out. The error here was poor captaincy, watching it felt rvdm only came on as he or bess had to bowl 1 between them so Gregory or Gronners could bowl out.

The error is Mr Hurry and signing of players, the last thing the club needed over the winter was bowlers of any sort for any comp, we needed batters.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 10:13 by sandhills.

06 May, 2019 10:21
And i suspect going to one spinner after Cardiff has more to do with batting then bowling!

wsm fan
wsm fan
06 May, 2019 10:34
Second XI Coach, Greg Kennis has named the following squad for todays fixture:

Marcus Trescothick, Steve Davies, Eddie Byrom, Tim Rouse, Ben Green, Tom Lammonby, Ben Wells, Jack Leach, Ollie Sale, Jack Brooks, Nathan Gilchrist and Charley Reed.

Today is a 50 over game.
Tue Wed Thu is a red ball 3 dayer.
Whilst we can do as we please it is VERY likely the 12 on duty today will be the 12 on duty tomorrow.

No Max in the 2s squad above i notice, maybe he is flying back in to rescue the campaign.....

06 May, 2019 10:43
Strikes me that team selection has been hamstrung by our early success. 4 wins in 4 and the mantra is "don't change a winning team". Bristol was "a blip" at a ground that seldom suits us, in a derby match (and they often defy the form books). On to Radlett. A bad day at the office. Away. An outground. Poor outfield by some accounts. (Insert excuse of your choice here). We'll be fine in the next match back at Fortress Taunton.

Except we weren't. We were playing the team at the top of the table, which didn't help (insert excuse of your choice here).

So now we're left with a s£!t or bust match against Surrey tomorrow. As far as team changes go I think it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. (Personally I think Tom should just hand a team sheet to Rory Burns at the toss with 11 Roelof van de Merwes). I do wonder if some of the bowlers are feeling a bit jaded - Craig, Lewis and Josh have played every match this season I think, they have been awesome (and their batting has proved as important as their bowling) but its all miles in the legs (overs, runs and fielding). Plus there is a lot of season to go.

The batting on that well-known cricketing surface, paper, is as good as anyone's (I will admit to being unsure about Azhar, but he's averaging 43+ (above the Salt, England's latest call-up). Banton was the new Messiah after the Kent game, now he's playing ahead of Davies to 'keep him happy'? Really? Trego made a hundred a couple of weeks ago. Hildreth and Abell have made important contributions without the big score.

I am concerned about the team-one-spinner mantra as that plays into our opponents hands at away games. I understood bringing in Jamie O - he was our highest wicket taker in white ball cricket last season. But he needs a score to defend. He's unlikely to be the bowler to give you 10-2-38-0, more the 9.2-0-62-4. And that's ok. Having a bowler who can blast out the tail in his 2nd/3rd spell is great but he needs batsmen to score runs and other bowlers to knock over a few at the top, along with some to keep a squeeze on those middle overs so there is pressure to score. Does that mean Jack Leach? Maybe. I don't remember seeing him play list A. Max? Most teams seem to want a wrist spinner/googly bowler and he gives you 20 runs in the field if not with the bat.
Tbh I have no idea!

06 May, 2019 10:55
No Bess as well as no Waller in that squad, WSM. Perhaps we’ve decided to be a ‘one spinner,’ team at seconds level too... or maybe there might be a small chance, after all, of going to a less seam heavy attack.

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