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Mike BOS
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 18:44
Why are people taking about the pitch so much, I watch every ball and nothing happened that would indicate it was a bad pitch.

This is from cricinfo report on the second day by Sam Norwell.

"I think it's a good cricket wicket. Yes, it's low scoring, but if you are going to be highly critical there is a lot of batsmen error as well as good bowling. There is pace in the wicket and a bit of nip, but I'd much rather play on these wickets and I think a lot of people would much rather watch cricket on these wickets than just getting to the third innings and shaking hands."
Somerset have batted in a frenzy in this match, regarding the surface with fatalism. The result of that was scores of 209 and 164 and an average run rate across the two innings of more than four an over. It was primarily down to Norwell that they subsided to 78 for 7 and it was largely in his absence that Craig Overton organised some late-order resistance for the second time in the match.


Also at the Q&A last night Andy Hurry said he hadn't been approach about the pitch.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 18:53
You didn't see balls leaping off a length or just short of one, then, Mike?

I did.

For example, the over from Henry Brookes to Timmy G, where the ball reared off a length and would have hit him a horrible blow, had the line been straighter (nearly clocked him anyway). You may remember the over because Timmy then flat-batted him for six 2 or 3 balls later.

There were, IMO, a number of lifters from the Pavilion End where the ball bounced far more than it should have done from a length. There was also the odd one that kept a little low as well. I'd think we weren't that far from being docked points for consistent uneveness of bounce, which grounds for failing a pitch.

Mr Hurry is hardly going to publicly say that there was something wrong with this deck, with the threat of a points deduction hanging over us!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/05/2019 19:02 by AGod.

 
cricketjerry-mouse
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:00
Some Somerset supporters (including not a few on Grockles) have an amazing propensity for moaning however well their club is doing.

When I first heard members in the Colin Atkinson pavilion complaining today that the public had been allowed in free, I assumed it must be a joke. But in reality, it soon became clear that they were unhappy with the situation because they were still having to pay full whack for membership.

Give me patience.

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:02
Likewise Mike I agree with your first line comment above

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:03
This is from David Hopps' report. I will make my comment on it below:

"If they (Somerset) lack anything, it is one more batsmen with an old-fashioned desire to bat long, a Sam Hain in other words."

1. We do need more stickability than was shown in this match.

2. But his claim that we simply don't have such a player is based on the team being picked this season.

3. We do, in fact, have a young man with the desire to occupy the crease for extended periods playing in our second XI. His name is Eddie Byrom, and he's just made 170 in the twos..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/05/2019 19:07 by AGod.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:09
This from Jason Kerr:

"I encourage the cricketers to adapt themselves (sic) but there's no doubt we need to adapt as well. There is always a fine line. I am still not comfortable at the minute. There are too many soft dismissals. But the way we are operating as a bowling unit is arguably getting us out of a little bit of trouble with the bat."

 
Tom Seymour
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Tom Seymour (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:13
A good win by any standards - well played to Somerset who seem to be playing as a team right now.

Also well played by Warwickshire who fought to the end to try to secure what was an unlikely win for them, as indeed it turned out. This morning had some moments of tension for any Somerset supporter, but it was well worth the effort of me attending to see the end result.

I am not sure how AGod comes to his conclusion that this was a bad pitch. Of course one or two lifted off a length, one would expect that to happen occasionally, but I saw nothing that kept low. Perhaps you need to be there to witness it at first hand rather than on one's computer screen - admirable though the streaming service is.

That's enough from me.



A glass half - empty or a glass half - full?
Regardless, both glasses need filling up.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:43
No, Tom, one doesn’t. The view of the pitch from the camera is extremely good and one need not see anything else outside of the view of the pitch to see how it’s playing (at least as well as anybody not actually playing on it). On a good pitch, there shouldn’t be balls rearing off a length. There were deliveries lifting disconcertingly, at times even from bowlers with neither great height, nor pace.

What may have saved us is that all of the trouble seemed to come from one end (Pavilion). The bounce did seem consistent from the River End.

 
Ralphindevon
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Ralphindevon (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 19:43
It wasn't a bad pitch, it was a low scoring pitch though, so little chance of max points.
As Jason Kerr said, were doing well but still not perfect. For all those saying everything is brilliant, that's probably the attitude that got us more runner's up trophy's than any other professional sporting club in the country this century.*
There's nothing wrong with striving for perfection.

* I made that bit up but it's probably true

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:12
All that matters is that management not assume that all is rosy. Kerr seems to know that the batting hasn’t been performing but the question remains as to whether he will do anything about it, viz, potentially dropping Trescothick, for example, or putting Hildreth back into the slot (4) where he should be batting.

It now looks as though both Surrey and Hants will win, so maybe shaping up to be a 3 way race for the title - or perhaps as many as 5 if Yorks and Essex have a say?

Not sure if we’ll be too any more given that, if Hants win, they’ll do so with more bonus points than we got.

 
wsm fan
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
wsm fan (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:12
Oh Tom, if only you'd told me you were coming we could have met up in your Botham stand seat & cheered all 4 wickets together!
I am quite happy to agree with your pitch assessment, as most in the know have said, it was a good cricket wicket, just not enough batting application on either side and our attack is on top form.
And i also concur absolutely nothing beats being there to experience proceedings live.
No computer screen can replicate the naked eye for how a pitch behaves or the players react to it.

 
Cleavo
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Cleavo (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:26
AGod if Hants win as expected by my calculations they’ll pick up 22 pts, but we’ll still be top by 2 pts. Interestingly though in the round of CC matches scheduled for next week we aren’t featuring in they travel to Yorkshire.

Another good win this week with the bowlers outstanding again. Mr Extras for us surely man of the match?

From 78-7 in our 2nd innings things were looking very bleak, but crucial lower order runs from Craig Overton especially and a cameo from Timmy G got us up to score we could defend.

As for the pitch nothing wrong with it. Sam Hain proved that today and credit to Hannon-Dalby for the application he shown. More than shown by the top orders from both teams.

 
Wickham
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Wickham (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:40
Great photos, Mike - each one tells a story.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:41
Not true, WSM. You see nothing with the naked eye, so far as lateral movement and bounce are concerned that you don’t see through the camera. And, in fact, if you’re sitting anywhere other than slap-bang behind the arm, you have a worse view with the naked eye than with the camera.

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:42
It will probably benefit us for several counties to be chasing the title as they will beat eachother across the course of the season, rather than have a run away leader like Surrey or Essex.

Recent champions have lost no or few matches, which is really really difficult to do. We are seemingly impregnable at home and have the experience of last year's loss at Guildford.

However, even having a great side and not troubled with player absentees, we cannot afford to take excessive risks or suffer an 'execrable' match. As with Surrey last week, we may have to tolerate a few more draws for the greater good

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:42
I think today, Cleavo, the track did less than on previous days. I wouldn’t have given tuppence ha’penny for Hannon-Dalby’s chances of batting that long on a track behaving as it was in their first innings, for example?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22/05/2019 20:44 by AGod.

 
wsm fan
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
wsm fan (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 20:50
Ah ok thanks Agod.
I wont bother going Saturday then as i'll know more if i wait for you to tell me what i haven't seen on a 14" computer screen.

 
Cleavo
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Cleavo (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:02
AGod you are right it did do less today. I had a perfect view throughout the match as was sat in the upper tier of new pavilion virtually slap bang behind the arm where the camera was positioned for live stream.

Maybe because the ball was older and the fact day 3 tends to be the best day for batting?

Even last night Hain showed application, patience and discipline during his innings.

Andy Hurry alluded to this at the Q&A last evening stating that Warwickshire adopted a more methodical approach to their batting. Even Craig Overton yesterday was very sensible in what balls he looked to score off. The 86 runs added for our last 3 wkts in 2nd innings having been reduced to 78-7 were crucial along with the 47 extras Warwickshire conceded in 1st innings, which Abell alluded to in his interview.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/05/2019 19:20 by Cleavo.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:02
I was at the ground from 2 wickets down on day one, through to close of play yesterday.

Respectfully, I can't agree with the view that the wicket was a good one. Yes, it was 'sporty', 'lively', or whatever other descriptive phrase comes to mind, but I don't agree it was a good one.

I'm not sure that we would collectively have been quite so sanguine if we had lost on that surface.

No SCCC batsman reached 40 throughout the game and in both of our innings our top scorer made 36 (coming in at number 9 & 8 respectively). Nobody else got more than 23 in either innings.

The game finished after one session of day three and the game yielded a paltry aggregate total of a single batting point.

There was sporadic, and occasionally significant variablity in bounce from the pavillion end and few batsmen on either side ever looked comfortable.

None of the above says we batted recklessly, but we won primarily due to tremendous bowling, fielding and team spirit, all of which bode excellently for the future.

I get completely that we have to win games at Taunton to achieve the goal of winning the Championship, but I tend to the view that we could have done so on a rather more conventional pitch than this one. Particularly against Warwickshire.

My suspicion is that the pitch did rather more than was expected. As a result, the game lasted only just over two days.

If we could prepare a surface that would facilitate a result game lasting three and a half days, I think everyone would be happy, including the 'batting bonus points' column.

But given the challenges and uncertainties of pitch preparation, perhaps that's an impossible/idealistic dream !

Grizzzly

 
cricketharris
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
cricketharris (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:07
I am beginning to think that I must be the only one on here who just watches the whole game and not being primarily interested in what the ball is doing, what the pitch might be doing, what the view is from exactly behind the bowlers arm etc. etc. As for saying that the best view of a cricket match is on a computer screen from a static camera, well, how sad.

 
Phrench Phil
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Phrench Phil (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:25
An excellent post cricketharris, with which I concur wholeheartedly.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:44
So far as I know there won’t be any live feed on Saturday, WSM. But I’ll be at the game anyway, hopefully as close as possible to being behind the arm. But if the game is actually being televised in any form, then I promise you that people watching, for example, a replay of a dismissal, will have a better idea about said dismissal than folks sat in the Mound or Tavern stands.

CricketHarris, I didn’t say the best view of the whole match is from the Static camera - it’s obviously useless for things not in shot. But it’s true that it’s much better for judging the line of the ball and movement etc than being at the ground anywhere other than behind the arm. If one is sat at mid-wicket, or point, for example, one wouldn’t have a scooby, really, about lbws. One is not well placed to judge movement etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22/05/2019 21:52 by AGod.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:51
Agree,,Cleavo. Pitch usually loses some pace by day three. So there was less in the way of steepling bounce. And it had dried out, somewhat, so there was less lateral movement (though still enough to work with).

Ironically, had we been able to bat for much longer in either innings, then Warks would have been left with more wkts in hand to use on the less tricky day three pitch. Perhaps the knowledge that track will flatten plays its part in our batting approach?

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 21:58
It's all kicking off this evening and, while not wanting to take sides, I will say that one of the worse things to happen to cricket in my lifetime was the loss of free to air tv coverage.

There is a whole generation of children now who are not into cricket. Yes, many local school children had the benefit of free admission yesterday, but a lot of other people haven't the slightest clue that Somerset are in the final.

This would not have been the case in days long gone, with live mainstream coverage of the limied over competitions, Sunday league and test matches.

Next year people will have a chance to watch free live cricket at home and maybe go to a ground. The sadness is that it is a made up competition, with made up teams and you'll have to travel far to watch it.

 
Bagpuss
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
22 May, 2019 22:37
Since the static cameras are positioned high up behind the bowlers arm I think the view they give as regards up-and-down movement isn't perfect (there are variations in a bowler's action and pace that may create more or less bounce on different deliveries too). Sideways movement is a bit easier to see, although again can be varied by more than just the behaviour of the pitch.

The best view of the pitch, and how the ball behaves, of course, is possessed by the umpire. As far as I know the umpires in this match have not expressed any concerns.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Scrumper (IP Logged)
23 May, 2019 00:01
Damn your Vulcan logic.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
23 May, 2019 07:38
Yes, Bagpuss. But at the vast majority of grounds eye-witness spectators, if behind the arm at all, will also be at elevation (as we all will be on Saturday, for example).* So no advantage for the naked eye viewer there.

Nobody is disputing that the umpires have the best view.

As I say, I think the fact that things were consistent from the River End (bounce wise) was probably our saving grace.

I don't know how much lateral movement is necessary for it to be deemed "excessive," under ECB rules (although I'd assume it's rather subjective!).

I note Jason Kerr's comments, to the effect that we had back-to-back games, so there wasn't much time for preparation. However, I strongly suspect that, had the position been reversed, such that we were playing Warks first, and then Surrey, there's no way that the second track would have been like this - we'd surely have taken considerably more grass off it.

 
AGod
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
AGod (IP Logged)
23 May, 2019 07:40
And I still think there's a daft double standard, where if it turns a lot, as vs Lancs, we should - apparently - be censured, but if there's a ton of lateral movement off the pitch and unpredictable bounce from one end, then that's fine.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Grockle (IP Logged)
23 May, 2019 14:12
I'm watching the games by necessity on a tv screen and I'm damn grateful for the work of Ben Warren snd Somerset for that.

I'm not there live on Saturday because the ECB couldn't organise a @#$%& up in a brewery or find their own @#$%& with a map.

I am luckier than many who can't be there because streaming services in Bermuda are not illegal and sports pubs show cricket games. No free to air in our 'summer of cricket' well domestically anyway.

Live is best unless you want to draw trajectory maps for every ball and analyse it to death. It's all about the day. Thinking the game through comes later after the excitement.



(Sm72)

 
phantom74
Re: Warks CC1 Taunton
Phantom (IP Logged)
24 May, 2019 11:03
Quote:
Grockle
I'm not there live on Saturday because the ECB couldn't organise a @#$%& up in a brewery or find their own @#$%& with a map.

I hate to be the one to ask, but why is it the ECB's fault you are not there?

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