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Somerset LaLaLa
Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
30 May, 2019 17:49
RLODC Winners 2019 against the CC Winners 2018, at Guildford Mon. 3rd June

130 miles from the comfort of Taunton, but we’ve got Jamie Overton back. And hopefully a few canine friends to accompany us on the way



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2019 18:09 by Grockle.

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 12:51
Reading between the lines it appears we are going to be lining up as follows.......

Tres Azhar James Tom George Steve Craig Jamie Tim Jack Jack

I do not expect to see Lewis again this month, maybe not until T20s if its a proper side strain.

At least we have our 2 tallest fastest aggressive fast bowlers to try and avoid a repeat of last years Guildford effort.

After the results this week we have a huge chance this month on the road to really get some daylight on the rest.
If we can beat Surrey that's our biggest threat extinguished by early June.

Essex could be our main threat.
Not scared of Yorkies and Hamps hit by WC now & a VERY aged seam attack.

 
Mike BOS
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 12:55
Still Tres??

Opening partnerships.
30
5
19
10
13
8

I need to add, Marcus was not the first batsman out in all cases.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/05/2019 13:07 by Mike TA1.

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 13:26
Yes still Tres.
He played 2s match this week which doesnt suggest he is being dropped or intending to pack it in.
We have won 3 out of 4 with him in the team.
Runs are of course his currency but he is a huge part of our set up.
He has to score runs soon but i'm pretty sure he will get Guildford & Canterbury before our next week off.

Nothing suggests the club are ready to drop him, or him walk away, yet.....

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 13:47
We won games inspite of Trescothick, not because of him.

It’s always flawed thinking to think ‘Team won, keep same team.’

The correct question should always be ‘How can this be improved upon?’

Personally, I also think we’d be daft to gamble on the fitness of Jack Brooks. Didn’t play the seconds game. Has a long injury history behind him. Not worth the risk until he has proven *match* fitness (not a Test in the nets).

Lower order also too long in that team.

Not saying they won’t pick that team, just that it would be inadvisable to do so.

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 14:02
As for Marcus playing the seconds game, that should have been seen as a chance for him to provide a strong case for his inclusion, NOT as an indication that he should be a shoo-in.

53 runs, vs Eddie Byrom’s unbeaten and match-saving 93, conspicuously failed to provide said strong case.

I fear that we shall soon be in a Maynard - Allenby type situation, where personal links confound what should be an objective team selection decision.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Grockle (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 14:10
How is Marcus 'huge part' of 'our setup' wsm?

As an experienced player and mentor I can see that but as a team mate? He will be a calming influence in the dressing room - but doesn't have to play to be that.

On the field? He tends to be there as a batsman with Ali and Hilda... he's rarely there longer.

He doesn't bowl and he isn't captain so other than an advisor and a gifted close fielder, how is his inclusion more 'huge' presently than Max Waller's would be?

He has stuff to offer but he won't offer it in the batting order where we need it and can offer his other contributions offield in a senior capacity.

If he is a 'huge' part of our onfield setup then we need to move away from it because his onfield time is sadly limited going forward.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/05/2019 14:20 by Grockle.

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 14:11
Let me also say this: Keep picking any pro player for long enough and they’ll eventually score some runs, by the law of averages.

But that fact doesn’t mean that the ‘decision to keep faith with them,’ is automatically vindicated. Such vindication can only come if the first score after a bad run is then swiftly followed by more good scores. So, if Trescothick makes, say, 80 runs in the match at Guildford then that would only vindicate keeping with him if more good scores were subsequently made.

Otherwise, if you get naff all - naff all - naff all - naff all - 80 - naff all - naff all, then by ‘keeping the faith,’ what you’ve actually got in return is one 80 and two naff alls (still wouldn’t be good enough)PLUS the opportunity cost of other runs that might have been made by somebody else in previous games, had the struggling player been dropped sooner.

I suppose one thing in MT’s favour is that it’s away. Taunton has become a house of horrors for him, to the extent that I’d use the word ‘indefensible,’ about his inclusion for this game, were it at home, given average at home of about 8 since the start of 2018.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/05/2019 14:33 by AGod.

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 15:02
As i say, nothing has been done or said by the club or Marcus to suggest he wont play on Monday.

Most on here have written him off but from those that actually count there has been no hint he will not be opening at Guildford.

It has not even been a press story overly, just on here i have seen any real debate.

Fingers crossed Marcus along with Andy Jason & Tom know more what is best for the club than Agod & chums.

We seem to have done fairly well thus far beung unbeaten in the champo & winners of a Lords final, maybe they actually know what they are doing.

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 15:49
.... so maybe they also knew what they were doing when Jamie was encouraged to go to Wantage Road...... what think you, WSM?

Or is this a case of they only ‘know what they’re doing,’ when they agree with you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/05/2019 15:56 by AGod.

 
Angell Face
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Angell Face (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 16:27
Brilliant A God, especially the last sentence. "Pot" and "Kettle" come to mind.

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 16:32
Yes thats right they got that one very wrong.
As Jamie proved Saturday.
And injuries to Brooks Davey Lewis "may" have been avoided if we had used our squad of 6 quicks better, guess we'll never know.
I understood the use of Davey Brooks etc in April given conditions but we could have managed / done things better as we were always going to need a fit happy bunch to get us through to September.

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 16:41
Also how do we know Jamie was encouraged to go to Northants?

As per his interview today it sounds to me very much as though it was Jamie who wanted/needed to go to play some cricket.

There was no 2s match and that level is no good for him anyway so he sought competitive action elsewhere rather than. A brave and commendable move.

Given Brooks injury after Surrey im very sure given the choice Andy/Jason would have liked the options of having Jamie on hand to use as from clubs perspective we'd want all options available to us.

 
Roger ivanhoe
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 16:43
WSM, So are you saying that you believe that Marcus is involved in the Team Selection, and that he will decided when to step down, and give Eddie, or Tom B a chance.

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 16:50
There was intense debate this time last year on the dropping of Alastair Cook from England. Now look at his form for Essex and he won't even be in the Ashes.

Marcus is wise enough to know when to go and should make his own decision. It will be incredible for him to bow out as part of the title winning team. However, if it's in jeopardy at any point of the season because of his scoring, he should stand aside

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 16:52
Nope not involved in selection.
But a huge influence on the team.
The rest look up to him.
I imagine his advice on the field to Tom is invaluable also.
Bottom line is he needs to score runs and he will know that more than anyone.

There is also the effect leaving him out and press etc around that may upset what we have going currently.
But equally he cant keep out Banton Byrom etc if he isnt scoring.

I expect him to get Guildford & Canterbury.
If they both go badly i'm sure discussions internally may happen before Chelmsford naturally.

 
Somerset LaLaLa
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Somerset LaLaLa (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 17:11
3 of Surrey's 4 matches have been away from home, I wonder if other counties are preparing pitches to nullify them. The draw at Taunton was a good result for us.

That said, what kind of pitch is expected at Guildford? No one is saying to go with 2 spinners despite the Batty and Patel show yesterday. So maybe a more lively track?

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 17:35
LaLa - game was at Edgbaston!

Angell Face - not denying kettle and black
at all, but at least I admit it.

WSM - I don’t buy that press story on Marcus being left out could possibly have worse effect on team morale than seeing him trudge back to the dressing room, disconsolately, after yet another failure.

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 17:36
Also, WSM, has it not occurred to you that maybe - just maybe - Jamie performed better last Saturday, than he otherwise would have done, had he played seconds stuff?

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 17:41
Also, WSM, you seem to have done a reverse-ferret on the Jamie move. All the talk, including from Jove himself was about how ‘difficult it was,’ to be away from the boys (implying he wasn’t thrilled about it) and you were full of how bad a decision it was by the club...yet now you suggest Jamie fully embraced going out (as he should have done, IMO)
M

 
Cleavo
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Cleavo (IP Logged)
31 May, 2019 19:40
WSM fan Tres is a Somerset legend and nobody can take that away from him as he fully justifies that tag, but what must Eddie Byrom be thinking who has scored big runs in the 2nds during recent weeks?

Yes, I know 2nd team cricket isn’t the same level or quality, however he’s banging on the door hard and the management have some big decisions to make as Tres can’t go on forever.

What message does this send out if someone who is only averaging 9 with a high score of 23 appears undroppable?

When Byrom has played in first team he has done an openers job more often than not in seeing off the new ball and before you say anything I do realise he hasn’t gone onto get that big score for us yet.

As for Jamie Overton we know your his biggest fan and I’m a fan too. At the time when the loan move to Northants got announced I wasn’t convinced it was the right move, but we appear to have reaped the rewards at Lords as he has come back sharper having played first team cricket elsewhere.

The key for me from a Jamie Overton perspective is fitness and being able to come back later during a Championship day to bowl quick/sharp second, third or even fourth spells.

He’s gone to Northants and done just that bowling a combined total of 55+ overs in the 2 CC matches he played in. Jamie has come back unscathed and firing, which can only be great from the club’s point of view and Jamie personally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/05/2019 19:42 by Cleavo.

 
That Bloke With The Dog
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
31 May, 2019 21:11
The Lord's victory was incontrovertible evidence that it was the right decision to send J Overton to Northants for a week or two. Almost a stroke of genius, however it came about.

Re Trescothick, he's taken catches, been part of three winning teams this season, and played his part if the club finally wins the pennant. Good. But at some point Eddie Byrom has to be in the first XI, because if he's not, he will be somewhere else eventually. He's too good not to be.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Grockle (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 00:02
Quote:
wsm fan
Most on here have written him off...
Fingers crossed Marcus along with Andy Jason & Tom know more what is best for the club than Agod & chums.

We seem to have done unbeaten in the champo & winners of a Lords final, maybe they actually know what they are doing.

If you can't take the debate on here then don't wsm. We are here to debate....it is our raison d'etre.

Please don't denegrate that with comments about those who disagree with your view.

'Most' on here have not 'written him off' as you suggest. People have questioned his inclusion in a side as a player struggling for form. Many have suggested the usual attempt to solve this - time in the seconds.

There is no 'Agod & chums'. I for one have my own opinion and express it individually. If it corresponds to the view of anothr poster so be it. But it is MY opinion and I take exception to being boxed in as if those who do not agree with you are some 'cabal' grouping around someone you don't necessarily get on with.

Marcus' inclusion in a four day game has nothing at all to do with winning the RLODC.

Marcus' inclusion as a batsman has had very little to do with winning our 4 day games. His inclusion as a fielder has had more influence but only slightly. If you think he has an influence then please illuminate us as to how?

Others have outlined how others might have a positive effect on the batting. Your response seems to be.... don't react until something goes wrong? We can't wait for that and compete for the trophy.

In the opinion of some it already has gone wrong and it may well have already affected our collection of batting points but the form of others has neutralised it in terms of results. THIS SEASON and UP TO NOW.

We are suggesting a player is not bigger than the team and I suggest to you that if this was George Bartlett we were talking about you would have little argument ON THE BASIS OF FORM ALONE.

Marcus is an institition. We are honoured that he plays for Somerset. Andy Caddick is also one. He doesn't bowl any more and there is a reason for that. It may just be time to TEST if form is still temporary. The class Marcus Trescothick quite obviously has will always speak for itself

So please,,,

Compliant received about inappropriate language used in a moderator request. Complaint upheld and the inappropriate language has been removed

… stop treating those who also support this club but don't necessarily worship the pitch MT walks onto presently as enemies.



(Sm72)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2019 01:04 by Grockle.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Scrumper (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 00:23
Smacked bottom wsm.

 
wsm fan
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
wsm fan (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 05:34
Well that's me told!

I dont really need a lecture on what or how to post thanks all the same.

Yes all are welcome to an opinion, informed or otherwise.
I am quite content with how i support my team and what is or isnt posted on an anonymous forum by those with a varying level of actual attendance i really wont lose too much sleep over.

It seems several want to have it all ways, criticise when they feel like it then revel in the glory of a win 5 minutes later, that's a very easy way to be i guess.

Cricket is a game of opinions, too many at times rather than being based on actual facts.

See you all at Guildford no doubt.....

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 07:04
Still think it’d be a significant risk if we throw Brooks straight back in. I’d fear at least a 25% chance of an in-game breakdown. They’ve not been infrequent in his career. And with LG already out, I think that gives us more of a reason (rather than less of one) to avoid that gamble.

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 07:08
Yes, see you there, WSM.

We can discuss rolling over ‘The Jamie bet,’ once again, if you like..

As for this season’s edition, you’re welcome to count the 5 or so wkts that Jamie took at Northants against this season’s haul.

Bet wise, I guess the LG injury gives you a glimmer.

But England selectorial stupidity (won’t pick Leachy that much) will keep the door firmly shut, IMO.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 07:20
I’m guessing that Tom may well bowl more at Guildford, which is no bad thing.

Our batting is the bigger concern for me. Whoever is in our batting line up, methinks our first innings is going to need more than 200 and it would be welcome indeed to see us gain a few batting bonus points.

Grizzzly

 
Bagpuss
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 07:45
From the look of the current forecast he match may be more of a bonus point exercise anyway. Here's hoping we aren't in "batting points are for wimps" mode.

 
AGod
Re: Surrey - We’re Coming To You
AGod (IP Logged)
01 June, 2019 07:50
Indeed, Grizzly.

The top 3 needs sorting out.

Across the country, batting averages are way up, compared to the historical lows of last season: But our top 3 have absolutely failed to share in that prosperity.

I still believe that batting Hildreth out of position makes little sense for James, and less for Somerset.

It was never likely, in my view, that he’d make an ideal number 3 and less likely, still, that he’d suddenly be parachuted into the England team at that spot.

Now, 4/5 games in, he must be miles and miles and miles behind the likes of Sibley and Ballance.

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