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Rogers and Not Out


Poll: England player avaliability
28 January, 2012 20:53

Should England's out of form players go back to their counties to practice?

Yes: they need the practice against spin.
No: they should stay on and man up.
No: they should go play IPL.
Yes: County sides need their experience.
No: why should counties unbalance their sides.
Other (if so please state what) to please Kev.

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9 Votes

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After the horror show that was the second Test v Pakistan in the desert there will be calls for players to be dropped. Not quite as big as the ones for Laxman,Tendulkar etc though in India.

Views and votes on returnees playing for their counties,not singling anyone out,all players,all counties here please.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
28 January, 2012 22:37
Diamond- You gave me too many options there as I wanted to tick three.

When you see Pieterson and Morgan fail it always looks worse because they are attacking batsmen who play in the IPL, so rightly or wrongly it gives the impression they do not have the technique to play patient, defensive innings, or have just plain forgotten how to do it. Therefore those two do need to play county cricket. It would severely dent Pieterson's ego, and I honestly wonder if Morgan would be that bothered if he wasn't in the test side. Tell both they cannot play in the IPL this spring, because their test match form isn't good enough to let them off playing 3 or 4 championship games.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
28 January, 2012 22:51
My vote is for "Yes: County sides need their experience", as I would welcome Middlesex's three England players into our team. Andrew Strauss and Steven Finn are Middlesex through and through, so I expect they would enjoy playing for us, while I hope Eoin Morgan would be motivated if he was told he had to score runs for us in order to retain/regain his England place. However, I am sure that many supporters would be sad if a regular had to make way, although my personal preference is for Middlesex's line-up for each match to be as strong as possible, something I believe would be achieved by selecting our England players if they are available. I know that the issue of Morgan in particular divides opinion. If it was presently the county season, then I would like to think that all England players would be made available for their counties, but at this time of the year, that cannot happen. I would be happy for opposition teams to include their England players in their line-ups, so long as we can do so too.

Two things that are difficult to do in county cricket are practice against spin, which can only be done on certain pitches and against certain opposition, and practice in sub-continental conditions.

It wouldn't surprise me if, come this summer, England will be firing on all cylinders and showing they are the best team in the world, in which case there would probably be no calls to send players back to their counties.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
29 January, 2012 06:31
Some very good points raised by both of you gentlemen.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Vic. (IP Logged)
29 January, 2012 09:34
You don't become bad players overnight. Form and class and all that. How many players have been written off in the past only to come back and bite a few bums? The last 2 Aussie captains for a start. Wholesale changes does no good whatsoever. This squad has taken England to no1 in the World, dismantle after 2 poor games?

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
29 January, 2012 10:11
True Vic though one or two of them have been in a poor run of form for some time. As JW says though it is more difficult at this time for them to gain any form by being withdrawn from the squad as there is no County cricket for them to play.

The question is posed more from the Counties point of view rather than any "England bashing" of the likes of Morgs or KP,both of whom are not exactly in the form of their lives at present but we all hope are one knock away from it.

No chance of us seeing Hi Fi back too soon I think,he is the future for England's bowling attack.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
BarmierKev (IP Logged)
29 January, 2012 11:55
I say Other a bit of 4 options.

I feel strongly that once a player chooses IPL Circus over county cricket they for go their right to be considered for test cricket. Look how the Indian test team have declined since IPL, no co-incidence. Moggie has to be told to initially fight for his place in Middlesex side.

Some very good points all round made above by the way.



Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
BristolRob (IP Logged)
29 January, 2012 15:38
Send them to Somerset for some quality practice!!!!



Who put the A in Trego?

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
29 January, 2012 18:28
In the snow?

Stay warm next week Bob,gonna be a cold one down your way.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
BristolRob (IP Logged)
29 January, 2012 18:37
No probs Diamond.Got to get used to playing in the snow.February start next year.60 T20 games to be cpmpleted by end March to fit in with new hit and giggle league in Lesotho and Botswana.
You know it makes sense.



Who put the A in Trego?

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
29 January, 2012 19:11
On the subject of players having to be sent to Somerset to find a first-class match between the summer's two Test series, the structure of the 2012 summer means that there are no first-class matches in this country for a four-week period after the end of the Test series v West Indies on Monday 11th June, after which seven County Championship matches start in a five-day period, while Kent play South Africa. The next round of Championship matches coincide with the start of the Test series v South Africa. Therefore, any members of England's Test side who need to play first-class cricket between the two Test series will only get a maximum of one chance to do so, and may get none at all if their county are one of the three who do not have a first-class match in this period (maybe some player(s) will be loaned to Kent). Thankfully, Middlesex do have a first-class match in this period, when we play Nottinghamshire at Uxbridge, so there will be no need for Andrew Strauss to turn out for someone else this year. However last summer, some teams had two first-class matches between the two Test series (although we had just one, which is why Strauss had to play for Somerset), so the fact that this year everyone has either zero or one match is an adverse variance.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
BristolRob (IP Logged)
29 January, 2012 19:29
That may be the situation now JW but the ECB could quite easliy order teams to rearrange a CC game in that period and order them to give whichever player/players require practice a game.



Who put the A in Trego?

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
31 January, 2012 00:10
The Daily Telegraph say that any England central contracted-players participating at the IPL will have to return to England by 5th May, which is 12 days before the first Test of the summer v West Indies and 22 days before the tournament finishes. Therefore, there is a chance of Middlesex and Nottinghamshire being at full-strength for their County Championship meeting at Trent Bridge which begins on Wednesday 9th May, as the ECB may insist on all central contracted players playing so they can reclimatise to first-class cricket in England. There is also the possibility of Eoin Morgan saying what he said in 2011, when he implied that if he couldn't get into the Test side then he would prefer to return to the IPL rather than play in the Championship.

On the subject of the strengths of ourselves and Notts, anyone who had their hopes up of both teams being at full-strength for their Championship meeting at Uxbridge beginning on Wednesday 11th July will be disappointed to know that it is unlikely any members of England's one-day side (like Morgan, Steven Finn, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, Alex Hales and Samit Patel) will be able to play in the match due to it starting the day after the final match of England's one-day series v Australia, which will be a day/night match at Old Trafford. Or maybe there will be some full substitutions made to allow the players to get a first-class match under their belt.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
31 January, 2012 19:18
Relax everyone. I think there is an England Lions game starting on May 10th, so if Eoin has play a warm up game prior to the test it will probably be for Lions rather than us- isn't that what happened in 2010? So long ago I'm not sure now. Really Lions should be used for players the selectors don't know about, rather than ones they do. We shall see...

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Darren Gosling (IP Logged)
31 January, 2012 23:07
Reluctantly voted for IPL option.
Only becuase if it's practise against world class spin they need then there's more chance (sadly) of batting against this in the IPL than the Cch (albeit the format is different).
In Morgan's case he's only played 37 Cch matches for Middx anyway over 6 seasons (effectively only 2 and a bit seasons), so he'd hardly be going back to his county.
NB Morgan has now played 80 Twenty20 matches in all formats in comparison to his 37 (Div 2) Cch appearances so it could be argued that he was picked for England in the longer format before he was ever really tested sufficently.
Kev - not sure on your comment re India's decline since IPL - they were actually the No.1 Test team until England recently replaced them......

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
04 February, 2012 11:14
As great as it would be for England players to gain experience in sub-continental conditions by playing at the IPL, it seems that only six Englishmen and only three members of the Test side will be playing at the 2012 edition, namely Kevin Pietersen, Stuart Broad, Eoin Morgan, Paul Collingwood, Michael Lumb and Dimitri Mascarenhas. Everyone else will have to make do with playing county cricket. A list of players with IPL contracts can be viewed here.

In an ideal world, members of the England Test team would prepare for tours of the sub-continent by playing first-class cricket for local teams, similar to how foreign players get used to English conditions by playing county cricket.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
04 February, 2012 11:56
I think its even money on which we will see first - Eoin Morgan playing for Middlesex in a four day game or the next appearance of Hailey's Comet.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
dingy bags (IP Logged)
05 February, 2012 20:48
Well, if Morgan doesn't get some runs soon, he'll be back with us to get some - which would produce an interesting selection dilemma or two.

 
Re: Poll: England player avaliability
Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
09 February, 2012 23:25
Quote:
Jonathan Winsky
In an ideal world, members of the England Test team would prepare for tours of the sub-continent by playing first-class cricket for local teams, similar to how foreign players get used to English conditions by playing county cricket

Richard Gibson of thecricketer.com hints that Andrew Strauss and Ian Bell will be sent to Sri Lanka earlier than other members of the Test side with the hope of them being able to play for a local team, so that would be great. They might as well arrive earlier than the rest of the squad, as neither of them will be playing on England's limited-overs series v Pakistan.

I am not sure how realistic it is that England's Test players can get ready for series in Asia by turning out for local sides, but if the team wishes to improve their poor record in that part of the world, then this is something that should be looked at. Warwickshire's Varun Chopra and Worcestershire's Moeen Ali appear to have had no difficulty in finding local clubs, as they have both played in Sri Lanka this winter.


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