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Cricinfo has more details-
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2017 15:30 by chunkyinargyll.
Cricinfo has more details-
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2017 15:30 by chunkyinargyll.
Thanks for the news flash, Chunky.
Adelaide
Adelaide
One if the reasons he changed counties was because he was looking for greater exposure.
If you're going to flash - flash hard !!
Will he be forced to retire? Or will he decide to stick it out for another year or two?
Just further proof that the property market is slowing down, and starting to droop.
Some estate agents will do anything to generate a sale.
Some estate agents will do anything to generate a sale.
I have heard the Warwickshire Bares have singed him up.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Shiv Thakor has now been arrested.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Last week there were conflicting reports. One set of online articles suggested two female estate agents showing him round a house (in other words, one incident) whilst another set suggested two separate incidents three hours apart.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Last week there were conflicting reports. One set of online articles suggested two female estate agents showing him round a house (in other words, one incident) whilst another set suggested two separate incidents three hours apart.
Found guilty.
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
what I don't quite understand is that he was found guilty by the judge (so not a magistrate)
at the magistrates court, so that suggests no jury, so whole case was decided in one day, with verdict given after 7 pm.
He will be sentenced on 24th November.
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
what I don't quite understand is that he was found guilty by the judge (so not a magistrate)
at the magistrates court, so that suggests no jury, so whole case was decided in one day, with verdict given after 7 pm.
He will be sentenced on 24th November.
Found guilty by a District judge, formerly known as stipendary magistrates. They are professional lawyers, whereas magistrates are laypersons. Perhaps District Judges hear the more serious cases but I don't really know
Adelegalaide
Adelegalaide
I think he may have had a choice if he wanted trial by jury, or accept the verdict of the judge.
[www.hg.org]
I'm guessing that if you let a judge decide you might get a more lenient sentence, because you have saved the state the expense of a jury, and it is quicker (decided in a day, whereas a jury would have taken it in to at least a second day)
But I would have thought a judge would be more likely to hand down a guilty verdict. To do otherwise would mean he didn't believe the witnesses, or agree with the CPS decision to bring the case to court.
With a jury, you only need to have three or more with reasonable doubt (witnesses might be mistaken) or just feel sorry for defendant (although that isn't meant to be relevant) and you are either aquited, or if jury can't agree, CPS has to decide id a retrial is in the public interest.
[www.hg.org]
I'm guessing that if you let a judge decide you might get a more lenient sentence, because you have saved the state the expense of a jury, and it is quicker (decided in a day, whereas a jury would have taken it in to at least a second day)
But I would have thought a judge would be more likely to hand down a guilty verdict. To do otherwise would mean he didn't believe the witnesses, or agree with the CPS decision to bring the case to court.
With a jury, you only need to have three or more with reasonable doubt (witnesses might be mistaken) or just feel sorry for defendant (although that isn't meant to be relevant) and you are either aquited, or if jury can't agree, CPS has to decide id a retrial is in the public interest.
Is the judge going to call him a stupid Thakor?
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Chunky
Surely the requirement for proof beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal cases is the same whether a judge or jury takes the case? If the judge finds someone not guilty it does not mean that they did not believe witnesses, simply that they were not sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Similarly, it does not mean that the judge thinks that the CPS was wrong to want the evidence tested in court.
You would expect a judge to understand the law (and sometimes the evidence) better than a jury but that could cut both ways.
A judge should of course be totally unbiased, as we will see when Judge Angus Fraser tries the mad archer of The Oval...
Adelaide
Surely the requirement for proof beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal cases is the same whether a judge or jury takes the case? If the judge finds someone not guilty it does not mean that they did not believe witnesses, simply that they were not sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Similarly, it does not mean that the judge thinks that the CPS was wrong to want the evidence tested in court.
You would expect a judge to understand the law (and sometimes the evidence) better than a jury but that could cut both ways.
A judge should of course be totally unbiased, as we will see when Judge Angus Fraser tries the mad archer of The Oval...
Adelaide
Adelaide- I agree it shouldn't make a difference, but a judge will decide who he believes and that's it. With juries it's not uncommon to have several 'not outers' in the twelve- in other words they will get all emotional, and feel sorry for a defendant, and think how it will spoil his future chances in life etc- or maybe they just can't deal with the responsibility of finding someone guilty, so a jury is more likely to deliver a not guilty verdict, or be unable to reach a decision than a judge.
Chunky
Many years ago I was in one of those job interview sessions where you had a group exercise. Ours was to discuss how we would go about ascertaining how a jury goes about reaching its decisions. I was beyond caring by this point as I already had a good job offer elsewhere. After listening to ten minutes waffle I suggested bugging the jury room. But that's illegal, I was told, to which I responded that the question we had been asked did not specify that the approach had to be legal! Believe it or not, they offered me a job, though I stuck with the first offer. The objection which could have been raised was that extreme nor outers or outers probably would not reveal their thought processes to the rest of the jury.
My only experience from being a juror was that outers ("they must be guilty or they would not have been charged") were as prevalent as "not outers". The best, though, was when a fellow juror asked me what would happen if the judge disagreed with out verdict! Point missed somewhere along the line. Fortunately, it was not the most serious of cases and jail was (I think) never likely. Other jurors at the Crown Court had to handle much more serious cases, right up to murder.
Adelaide
Many years ago I was in one of those job interview sessions where you had a group exercise. Ours was to discuss how we would go about ascertaining how a jury goes about reaching its decisions. I was beyond caring by this point as I already had a good job offer elsewhere. After listening to ten minutes waffle I suggested bugging the jury room. But that's illegal, I was told, to which I responded that the question we had been asked did not specify that the approach had to be legal! Believe it or not, they offered me a job, though I stuck with the first offer. The objection which could have been raised was that extreme nor outers or outers probably would not reveal their thought processes to the rest of the jury.
My only experience from being a juror was that outers ("they must be guilty or they would not have been charged") were as prevalent as "not outers". The best, though, was when a fellow juror asked me what would happen if the judge disagreed with out verdict! Point missed somewhere along the line. Fortunately, it was not the most serious of cases and jail was (I think) never likely. Other jurors at the Crown Court had to handle much more serious cases, right up to murder.
Adelaide
One thing I have noticed-
If you look at the second link in my first post on this thread, what he ended up being charged with doesn't tally with the cricinfo report.
I'll let the viewers speculate on why that might be.
I've done two stints of jury service (and managed to avoid another two) I reckon all MTWD posters would be capable of understanding their responsibilities, and quickly work out what was, or wasn't relevant.
One case I did involved a 3 man robbery. Listening to the evidence, the only logical conclusion was all three in the dock did it. However, we ended up with a few 'snowflakes' (not that the term had been invented then) who felt sorry for one of the three, because 'he's so nice, and doesn't look like he could have done it, and he's brighter than the others, and could get a decent job if we give him a chance'
All completely irrelevant- but the trade off became the snowflakes agreed to find the other two guilty if we let the younger nice one off. So 2 guilty, 1 not guilty.
I've no idea what the judge must have thought. He must have guessed we'd done a 'compromise trade off' so at least 2 were found guilty, but on the evidence it had to be all three.
If you look at the second link in my first post on this thread, what he ended up being charged with doesn't tally with the cricinfo report.
I'll let the viewers speculate on why that might be.
I've done two stints of jury service (and managed to avoid another two) I reckon all MTWD posters would be capable of understanding their responsibilities, and quickly work out what was, or wasn't relevant.
One case I did involved a 3 man robbery. Listening to the evidence, the only logical conclusion was all three in the dock did it. However, we ended up with a few 'snowflakes' (not that the term had been invented then) who felt sorry for one of the three, because 'he's so nice, and doesn't look like he could have done it, and he's brighter than the others, and could get a decent job if we give him a chance'
All completely irrelevant- but the trade off became the snowflakes agreed to find the other two guilty if we let the younger nice one off. So 2 guilty, 1 not guilty.
I've no idea what the judge must have thought. He must have guessed we'd done a 'compromise trade off' so at least 2 were found guilty, but on the evidence it had to be all three.
Derbyshire have sacked Shiv Thakor.
It is sad that his career has completely derailed, as Angus Fraser mentioned at a forum a couple of years ago that Middlesex considered signing him during the winter of 2014/15, when Gareth Berg moved to Hampshire, Thakor moved from Leicestershire to Derbyshire, and James Franklin ended up being Berg’s replacement at Middlesex.
We will have to see whether Thakor can attract another county, although he may not be available for some time depending on the outcome of Friday’s sentencing.
It is sad that his career has completely derailed, as Angus Fraser mentioned at a forum a couple of years ago that Middlesex considered signing him during the winter of 2014/15, when Gareth Berg moved to Hampshire, Thakor moved from Leicestershire to Derbyshire, and James Franklin ended up being Berg’s replacement at Middlesex.
We will have to see whether Thakor can attract another county, although he may not be available for some time depending on the outcome of Friday’s sentencing.
I think he'll be spared jail, but he is bound to end up on the sex offenders register.
Footballers have done worse, and survived, but would a sponsor want to be associated with him? And the 'friendly cheeky banter' he is likely to get from away fans at T20 games.
Derbyshire have paid him for last 5 months.
Maybe a year out of the game, and another county (not us) give him a chance in 2019.
Footballers have done worse, and survived, but would a sponsor want to be associated with him? And the 'friendly cheeky banter' he is likely to get from away fans at T20 games.
Derbyshire have paid him for last 5 months.
Maybe a year out of the game, and another county (not us) give him a chance in 2019.
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