cricket
Latest News:


WELCOME TO THE MIDDLESEX ROOM, THE ONLY MESSAGE BOARD ON THE INTERNET DEDICATED TO MIDDLESEX CCC

Winning catch. More of the same at Taunton, please!

 

Current Page: 14 of 19
 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Ivor's Tache (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 20:44
Overall, Gus is in credit. If he views his future with England rather than us, so be it. Unfair on Eskinazi who really needed a break from the first XI. No complaints if Compton or/and Franklin left. Whatever their previous contributions, they are not players for the future. Stirling appears to have confirmed he is a bish bash bosh player.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
adelaide (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 20:50
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I can't believe some of what I am reading. We are not football.

"I've been saying Gus should go for years" - were you saying that this time last year?

"Eskinazi should pack his bags" - a young player hitting problems halfway through season 2. Why Eski and not Nick Gubbins? I suppose if you've got as short enough memory you would have forgotten about him.

25% of the teams in the division get relegated. Three more points and we would have been fourth. A lot went wrong but we weren't uniquely bad.

"We should be pursuing ECB in the courts". Well, let's think about that one. Lawyers cost money, relegation probably has very little financial effect. And while the ECB decision looks bone-headed in context, what about the precedent set for when a match someone is about to win is stopped in similar circumstances? So (in my view) a substantial financial risk and not much chance of winning. Getting relegated by those two points hurts a lot but I think we just have to forget it and fight back next year. The biggest worry to me in the Cricinfo report was the hint that there were deep divisions in the dressing room, because that would get in the way of said fightback. I have no idea whether that is true, though if it is I could hazard a guess at some of the causes, such as what looks to be the divisive effect of the T20 structure.


Adelaide

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
28 September, 2017 21:13
Someone has to put a bit of pride and passion back into the team and unfortunately Gus is not that man - wearing the three Seaxes should be an honour not an excuse to pick up easy money.
Agree with Penguinsaremine about Franklin - resigning Compton was an old boys act by Gus (didn't he walk out on us last time we were relegated) - jury is still out with Ezkinazi he started well and faded and in all fairness Stirling is more of a white ball player.
Adam Vogues (when available) has shown a complete lack of interest and apparently his attitude whilst batting at Taunton was a disgrace (comment by a Somerset fan)
Sam Robson has peaked and gone backwards this season and is destined to be another Billy Godleman and John Simpson (my player of the year last season) has had a nightmare both with bat & glove.s

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
phillie (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 21:16
Adelaide agree with a lot of that especially regarding players hopefully having a temporary loss of form. Will stop there regarding Compton who seems to have been non contributing for ages and then gets a two year deal. However also please explain with regards the potential precedent at Oval with what similar circumstances that might occur as I find it difficult to recall anything in the past history of the game which would cause a game to be abandoned abruptly bar the weather

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
PaulR_enfield (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 21:51
As others have stated the club will, no doubt, be doing a thorough review of what's gone wrong this season and decide on what to do but in Division 1 cricket there is not much between most of the sides so it only needs a few things to go against you and you find yourself relegated.

Personally I don't think Gus should go (unless he wants to) as even after this season I reckon we are in a far better place than when he came back.

Whoever stays or goes it's up to the team to prove that they are as good as they (and most of us hopefully) think they are and win Division 2 conclusively next year.

Speaking from North London so not having been anywhere near Taunton this week, had we not beaten ourselves before the game even started by being so negative about the pitch? (although I do feel that Somerset have taken the proverbial but probably knew they would get away with it)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/09/2017 21:56 by PaulR_enfield.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
adelaide (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 21:53
Quote:
phillie
However also please explain with regards the potential precedent at Oval with what similar circumstances that might occur as I find it difficult to recall anything in the past history of the game which would cause a game to be abandoned abruptly bar the weather

There is no precedent in county cricket that I am aware of, though there may well have been riots or crowd issues with a similar effect overseas. There was the George Davis is innocent campaign years ago but of course that would just have been about the result, not bonus points or over rates. That match was of course declared a draw.

So The Oval becomes the precedent for the ECB for anything that might happen in the future. We get our two points back, fine, everyone agrees it makes sense. But suppose the arrow had been fired in with someone on the point of winning. Award a win or stick with the draw? Has to be the latter at the moment, but (the argument would go) the moment you predict the future in one case, you open up the argument for doing so in other cases, even if they are different in nature.

I'm sure that the ECB would have been happy for the umpires to so what they had promised and massage the problem away before it landed on their desks. The umpires are probably mortified at the impact their omission has had but you can hardly blame them for messing up in such a frightening situation.


Adelaide

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
pantherlike (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 22:12
In relation to games being called off for reasons other than the weather: there was a game in Richmond in 1664, or was it 1666, that was unable to be finished due to crowd violence. Something about betting I think.....


Anyway,


Agree with Adelaide, that one just can't start making off the cuff statements about he's no good, they've got to go, get a new board etc

This was a unique season since it began. Positive match positions were snuffed out by weather, then we had the events at the Oval day that ended with a (now relegating) decision by the ECB.

Our batting form wasn't good early on, and I saw danger signs that we would be in a relegation battle early, and now the wet September of dread has shut the big heavy bolted doors.


Dressing room discontent would be our biggest issue to address. It seemed unnecessary to watch a champion side fold up in a session. This is what the Windies, or Pakistan do when they're making a point. Something's amiss and it's hard to work that bit out from down here!

Also we've had injuries, one could go on and on....

So: we either spend loads of dosh on lawyers or we get our heads out of our collective behinds and make sure 2018 is a season of promotion!

GO Middle!!

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
phillie (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 22:15
Sorry it's simple really
It was in anybody's opinion extraordinary circumstances which just needed a realistic approach from the ECB but no they had to be intrangient. They are not God and can and should be challenged over it. Why make excuses for them

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
adelaide (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 22:27
Quote:
phillie
Sorry it's simple really
It was in anybody's opinion extraordinary circumstances which just needed a realistic approach from the ECB but no they had to be intrangient. They are not God and can and should be challenged over it. Why make excuses for them

Because it could cost big money to do so?

I think the ECB's point would be that they are indeed not God so they do not know what would have happened without the arrow. Of course we are 99.99% sure in this case but there is always a tiny possibility of the game stopping because a player or spectator needs urgent medical attention. But they don't want to be asked to play God in less clearly defined circumstances. Not an excuse for them but I can see where the argument would come from.

If the deduction were to be reversed now, other teams would then claim that they would have approached their games differently. Somerset's pitch would have had to be a little less extreme to enable a wider bonus point gap to open up; Hampshire would have gone for the win and so on...


Adelaide

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
phillie (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 22:31
I agree with the previous poster who mentioned how dum it was to announce we would not be contesting the ECB decision. Even a suggestion we might have gone that route might have had some effect without pending costs. They probably would not have liked the surrounding publicity especially if the media show them in a bad light. Even tonight on Sky Sport News there as been some points raised regarding this and which the Media might have got more involved as most would regard it as an injustice

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
phillie (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 22:46
Not sure I understand why you are making it so complicated for the ECB we are talking about points being fined here as a result
It was extraordinary circumstancesnew and we had no chance with an abrupt end to fix our over rate. Draw given nothing else should apply. Simple

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
lower pavilion (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 22:57
Sadly my post on page 13 seems to have had little affect
I say again, these are basically the same coaches and players that gloriously won us the title last season for the first time since 1993 and surely that alone should command some respect and a bit of leeway.

We are all bitterly disappointed, but let us all take a step back and let the club have an internal review and see what they come up with.

Surely we do not want cricket to resemble modern day football, where managers and coaches are dismissed after one bad season and indeed in one instance after just four games.

I remain optimistic that we will come back strongly next season.

Middle Middle Middle.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 28/09/2017 23:09 by lower pavilion.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Big Harvey (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 23:09
However sickened I am about relegation the last thing I want is a Bransgrove style reprieve via the boardroom or worse still the courthouse. Whatever the shortcomings of the Taunton pitch, it turned out to be nothing like as bad as we thought after the first day. In the end it turned out not to be impossible to bat on and they simply made a better job of both batting and bowling on it than we did. If Somerset deserve a point deduction for that pitch, then in all honesty we deserve one for the Lord's pitch v Lancs, not to mention of course for the Uxbridge fiasco.

I agree with LP's comment that we mustn't be hasty. The dividing line between success and failure in that division is incredibly fine.

Something I do think we need to look at and start preparing now is a winter bootcamp like the one we had before the season we won promotion last time. If you remember it seemed to work an absolute treat, and we hit the ground running as soon as the season started.

Another thing we need to sort out is an outground that's fit for purpose. We are probably unique in the fact that we are compelled to use outgrounds, and we need to have at least one that we can rely on, whether we own it ourselves or come to some arragement with the club that does for proper drainage and if possible spectator facilities to be provided. Continued use of Uxbridge - at least in its current form - is an ongoing source of embarrassment to the club.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Seaxe_Man (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 23:11
[quote phillie]Sorry Freddie think I have to correct you on Uxbridge your not correct
I went to Uxbridge first day beautiful hot sunshine and got there just after 11 am
By 11.30 no not a later inspection one would have thought but day called off completely as unfit. Why? the outfield was pretty bone dry but was told it was because not enough care was taken ( or suggest Middx supervision) over actual wicket cover which water had leaked under on the wicket.It was not the outfield although the drainage is non existent there. playing the match there was a farce in late summer. Went the next day on the same ticket and still got charged again for car park. Rained off after brief rain and saw about 45 mins total farce!
and they wonder why attendances are not there. Obviously not totally Middlesex fault they played there. Perhaps with the Oval debacle they should grow some with dealing with the powers ECB etc![/qu

Sorry have to correct you. No water got under the covers onto to the wicket. That was a theory put around by a website.

The area concerned was a patch to the side of the wicket affected by heavy overnight rain.

You state that drainage is non existent there, How do you know? In fact Middlesex had drainage put in yonks ago.

The brief rain you mentioned second day dumped about an inch of rain in 20 minutes. Would have stopped play anywhere.

Car park charges at outgrounds are at the behest of Middlesex members. And no county will give you free car parking. The current charge at Hampshire is 90 quid a season or 8 quid a day as an example. And it is at your risk if no play occurs. And they will charge you again next day.

Attendances will be low when its raining anywhere. About 5500 turned up for the T20's as it was sunny.

We are there as with all of the other outgrounds cos we don't own a ground. Food for thought maybe. Especially when the Graves Big Bash gets going in mid summer at Lords.

And the Uxbridge ground curator was there at 4.45am each morning which ensured some cricket was played.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
28 September, 2017 23:35
Quote:
lower pavilion
Sadly my post on page 13 seems to have had little affect
I say again, these are basically the same coaches and players that gloriously won us the title last season for the first time since 1993 and surely that alone should command some respect and a bit of leeway.

Hello -- Chad Keegan's Mohican here. Longtime listener, first-time caller. Thought I'd chime in for the first time to add my support to LP's calls for caution. As the man said: these are the same players and coaches who brought us our first title in a quarter-century. Plus, there were just three points between us and fourth. Wholesale firings and hirings surely aren't the answer -- and nor are they necessary.

There are questions to be answered, though. Personally, I still feel very disappointed about our failure to push for wins early in the season against Essex and Surrey. The decision not to chase down Surrey's total at Lords was unbecoming of a champion county looking to hold onto its title. And, as it happened, of a county hoping to retain Division One status.

Then the failure to enforce the follow-on against Essex -- and subsequently to bat on for 50 runs too many in our second innings -- again smacked of a team that didn't truly want to win. And yet a victory in either game would have kept us up. And who knows: a victory against Essex, at that early stage in the season, might have derailed their title challenge.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
PaulR_enfield (IP Logged)
28 September, 2017 23:35
Quote:
Big Harvey
However sickened I am about relegation the last thing I want is a Bransgrove style reprieve via the boardroom or worse still the courthouse. Whatever the shortcomings of the Taunton pitch, it turned out to be nothing like as bad as we thought after the first day. In the end it turned out not to be impossible to bat on and they simply made a better job of both batting and bowling on it than we did. If Somerset deserve a point deduction for that pitch, then in all honesty we deserve one for the Lord's pitch v Lancs, not to mention of course for the Uxbridge fiasco.
I agree with LP's comment that we mustn't be hasty. The dividing line between success and failure in that division is incredibly fine.




Agree with most of this, had we batted first on Monday would we have been 90-1 at lunch?

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
29 September, 2017 00:20
On this seasons form more like 60-4 at lunch

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Westrock (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 08:09
How is it decided whether to have a toss or not? The sporting thing for Somerset to do on a pitch prepared for their bowlers would have been to let us have first bat.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 08:12
To anyone who thinks we should 'sack the lot'

Who are you going to replace them with?

Sack Gus Fraser- alternatives Matthew Maynard and Chris Adams.

Never replace someone until you are sure you have a better replacement.

So- the next person who says 'sack 'em' needs to give realistic (people who are available) alternatives.

Never forget Gus's principled refusal to sign Pietersen (he definitely wanted to join us, and, as on central contract, would have been free). But Gus knew the arrogant big head would ruin the team spirit he had worked so hard to build up. Sign anyone who is 'difficult' and that person will inevitably lure a few of his team mates down the same path, and everything you've worked so hard to achieve will quickly fall apart.

All the time Gus is here we will sign the right kind of people, with due thought if they will blend in with the type of characters we already have. Not everyone takes that much thought when assembling a championship winning side, so it is really disheartening that his 'reward' should be the sack.

We all know the one big error was Franklin, because appointing him captain meant (until last couple of matches) tjhat he had to play, when he was never 100% worth his place on merit.

Compton may be near the end, but not for the want of trying (his 28 not out v Surrey when he had a back problem saved us that match as much as Simmo's 90 odd) So maybe people subcontiously lose their appetite when they know England is no longer achievable, but it won't be deliberate

Holden will play next year, because he's already proved he can handle Division 2 with Northants, or should we sign someone to block him?

So- the next 'sack them' poster needs to give me viable, better, realistically available alternatives, and I might start listening.

Otherwise I'm not.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 08:15
Westrock-

The away team has the right to make the home team bat first (no toss)

If the away team wishes to bat first, you have the conventional toss, which you may, or may not win.

Current Page: 14 of 19

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?