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Winning catch. More of the same at Taunton, please!

 

Current Page: 17 of 19
 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
01 October, 2017 12:00
Personally I would rather watch a game with spinners in action getting turn than the dead bore draw wickets that Mr Hunt has been dishing out for the past few years at Lords. But then I come from an era when every county team had 2 spinners and 20+ overs an hour was the norm. So more Tauntons please.
I may be in a minority but I find the whinging by senior Middlesex persons mildly unedifying.
If you don't want to be docked points keep your over rates up. Arrowgate has taught us a lesson (I hope!)
The loss at Somerset was as much due to mindset and inadequate batting technique as to the pitch. Hildreth isn't Bradman but he managed to score a century.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
AGod (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 12:31
I certainly feel that Voges failed to provide the requisite example to your players. He spent the first evening ostentatiously shrugging at the umpires as if to say 'this is impossible,' and whilst that might have suited his purposes viz trying to engender a points deduction, I don't think it did anything good for the mind-set of his team.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Dave_LW (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 13:21
Quote:
freddie tittlemouse
Personally I would rather watch a game with spinners in action getting turn than the dead bore draw wickets that Mr Hunt has been dishing out for the past few years at Lords. But then I come from an era when every county team had 2 spinners and 20+ overs an hour was the norm. So more Tauntons please.
I may be in a minority but I find the whinging by senior Middlesex persons mildly unedifying.
If you don't want to be docked points keep your over rates up. Arrowgate has taught us a lesson (I hope!)
The loss at Somerset was as much due to mindset and inadequate batting technique as to the pitch. Hildreth isn't Bradman but he managed to score a century.

Agree with this totally freddie.

We've struggled with over rates for a few years and it seems to be only the supporters who have been concerned.

Let's show some dignity.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Sussex Seaxe (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 13:56
I too agree with Freddie. To have points restored would make us a laughing stock and fuel the suspicion, I believe totally wrongly, that Middlesex are somehow favoured by the ECB. We have constantly failed to maintain a proper over rate and have now got our reward. Much as I am disappointed to be relegated, on this I have no sympathy whatsoever.

On the wider point of next season and a hoped for bounce back, I have read the comments on here with interest. I don't believe there is any need for a drastic change in personnel, but I do believe there is a need for a different approach. This involves a more attacking mindset, a need to be seeking the win first, not the avoidance of defeat and a 'let's get on with it' philosophy.

This certainly should include Gus at the top, but like many others, I think that Compo, Voges and Franklin have served us well but their days are gone. I would like to think that Malan will stay, but haven't seen enough to convince me that he would lead the philosophy I mentioned above. Simmo would be a good call for skipper. Sadly he appears not to be in the England frame, so could devote himself to the role. My only reservation is his position as keeper, which makes so many demands, but others, eg Chris Read have done it well. I also think that the suggestion of Harris is not a bad call.

In any event, I hope we all get behind them, encourage our younger players who will have to step up and see some good cricket next summer.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 14:00
Quote:
Grockle

The pitch inspectors do not agree with you because you are wrong.

If the assessment changes it has nothing to do with the pitch and quite a lot to do with the central agenda post 2020.


I'm intrigued to know how you know in advance the pitch inspectors don't agree with me.

If there was nothing wrong Noon could have said so on day 1 2 3 or 4, but he didn't.

I first time I read the term Ciderabad was on Grockles. I'm not absolutely sure if that person coined the word themselves, or if they repeated it from a comment elsewhere, but Ciderabad has only gained common currency because Grockles posters themselves use it all the time.

I note if the verdict goes against you tomorrow the get out excuse has already been prepared 'central agenda post 2020' and then you get upset because I said some Somerset supporters have a persecution complex (ECB don't like us, because we're not a test ground etc) You've just demonstrated that paranoia in the piece I've quoted.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
AGod (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 14:39
Actually, Wayne Noon has already delivered his verdict.

According to the ECB's rules on this it is standard practice for a second CLO to also investigate.

So we already know what Noon thinks - excessive turn, but no question of uneveness, therefore below average but not poor. We also know - because Noon said so - that this was also the opinion of multiple other people with whom he spoke.

We are waiting on the verdict of Phil Whitticase and, IMO, he has been told to say nothing until the ECB has sorted out its excuses, one way or the other, viz The Oval.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Lifer (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 17:14
Whitticase has spoken and said the pitch was below average for excessive spin from day 1. However since they have not been reported for a below average pitch previously this season there will be no points deduction.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 17:34
I can't find anything on the internet yet, but if i'm interpreting Lifer's post correctly, this means a warning to be carried over to next season, which sounds fair enough.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
AGod (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 17:53
Lifer - do you have any link to whatever PW said?

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
adelaide (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 18:08
Quote:
Lifer
Whitticase has spoken and said the pitch was below average for excessive spin from day 1. However since they have not been reported for a below average pitch previously this season there will be no points deduction.

So logically it would follow that either the pitch was worse than previous Taunton pitches this season, or that others have been similar but just not reported?

Not that logic seems to have too much to do with any of this, mind.


Adelaide

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 19:47
Whatever the merits of Middlesex's case Chunky, there is no way Angus Fraser should be rampaging around like a Trump in a China shop, publically bleating, moaning and whining about Middlesex's fate.

He is an England selector, obviously has contacts at the most senior level of the ECB & is clearly in a position to influence (or try to) the outcome of all this.

Somerset are obviously not in a position to get into a public slanging match with him whilst the final investigation/determination is still being undertaken, so for Fraser to abuse his position by facilitating damaging and potentially libelous press headlines is an utter disgrace.

In the context of the game at Taunton last week, how does it inspire any of your players and batsmen, to see your Chief lumbering around with a chip on his shoulder the size of a freight train, morosely conveying feelings of doom and gloom ? The same goes for some of the senior players - Voges in particular.

SCCC batted dreadfully in the first three quarters of this season, but fortunately - for them - managed to get their act together when it really mattered. The match was won by 231 runs, with SCCC scoring an aggregate of 486-19 (notwithstanding some pretty stupid shots at times) & M/sex 255-20. Young batsman Byrom scored a 50 & Hildreth a ton. Aside from Stirling reaching a respectable 41 in your first innings, the rest of your batting was dismal.

Mr Fraser needs to look in the mirror. The reason you have been relegated (at least until tomorrow) lies not with everyone else, but with yourselves.

By his actions over the last few days Angus Fraser has shown himself to be utterly classless and completely devoid of integrity.

Take some damned responsibility man and stop bleating.

Grizzzly

P.S.As for arrowgate, the stoppage was of course unforeseen. Much like some weather interventions. But you knew you were behind the required over rate & you took that risk. Next time Middlesex come off for rain in a ODI next season, and are 10 runs behind the D/L target, presumably you'll lodge an appeal on the basis that if it hadn't rained you would have caught up in the remaining overs ?

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
hdo (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 20:52
Well, I'd be astonished if Middlesex found themselves playing an ODI, for a start.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Lifer (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 21:38
His comment was reported on 5 Live Sports Extra after it all ended on Thursday

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 22:24
As the D/L method means that the advantage goes to whichever team got themselves in front of the eight ball at the point of abandonment, I expected the ECB to penalise Middlesex due to our over rate being behind the eight ball when the match at The Oval was abandoned. Therefore, it came as no surprise to me that we lost two points, although what did surprise me was it later being revealed that the umpires assured us they would not report our poor over rate when the match was abandoned. Still, I have always felt uncomfortable with the idea of us trying to get the deduction overturned.

Obviously, there is no way we would lodge an appeal if we lose a limited-overs match due it being abandoned at a juncture when we are behind on D/L!

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
adelaide (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 22:41
Quote:
Grizzzly

P.S.As for arrowgate, the stoppage was of course unforeseen. Much like some weather interventions. But you knew you were behind the required over rate & you took that risk. Next time Middlesex come off for rain in a ODI next season, and are 10 runs behind the D/L target, presumably you'll lodge an appeal on the basis that if it hadn't rained you would have caught up in the remaining overs ?

Come off it! The weather is the weather and is a foreseeable risk, even if the specific bit of weather is unexpected or comes quicker than expected. Over rate deductions and D/L decisions get accepted, even if the losing team sometimes feels D/L has stitched them up.

The issue with the arrow is whether a completely unforeseeable criminal act should be allowed to influence outcomes. The umpires said they would make sure it wouldn't but then forgot to do it. Once it got to the ECB unamended that made a real problem. Suppose, after all, something similar had happened last week with Middlesex seven wickets down. Outcome - a draw and Somerset go down. Would Somerset supporters, players and officials be saying "oh, that's tough luck on us but we'll have to accept it"? Yet there is more of a case for declaring a draw (because there was still the tiniest chance of holding out) and the ECB would have argued that they could not decide it on the basis of probabilities. That, it seems to me, was their problem once they got the umpire's report on The Oval, even though tidying up the over rate was an absolute certainty as it would have been entirely under Middlesex's control.

While the original deduction was in my view wrong, I think reversing it at this stage would also be wrong.

As far as the pitch is concerned, it seems pretty clear to me. The pitch was within the rules, perhaps not by much but preparing a below average pitch for such a crucial match could be seen as unsportsmanlike (or professional, as footballers would say). Middlesex did not have the bowlers or experience of the conditions to take advantage of the pitch; Somerset did. That appears to have been compounded by bad attitude and fatalism about the outcome, but I really think that only affected the scale of the defeat, not the result itself.

The defence of "it's within the rules" works by definition but (quite rightly) Somerset did not accept that defence when Kartik mankaded Barrow! No, they raised merry hell. A bit like Fraser now? I don't think it looks good either but I can understand why he is seriously hacked off. I think a little bit of putting ourselves in others' position might cut out some of the aggressiveness that has crept into postings.


Adelaide

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Grizzzzly (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 23:16
Fair point Adelaide.

Don't mind anyone (including AF) being hacked off and can understand the reasons why he might feel so, but his press/media rants have been massively over the top and entirely inappropriate.

Grizzzly

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
01 October, 2017 23:59
Quote:
Karseng
Bring back The Crusaders. Regarding your comment re Simmo how you can say he has had a nightmare with the gloves when he has finished the top keeper of Division 1 & 2 with regard to victims. Also the least number of byes is beyond me. He has also scored just short of 1100 runs across all formats and whilst this is not as good as last season and I knowhe will be disappointed himself how many times this season has he had to go in when the team has been 32for 4 etc or try and graft an innings out due to us being in a bad position. He was denied possibly a century at Surrey also.
I should really amend my comment about Simmo having a nightmare season with bat and gloves to disappointing by his own high standards.
The statistics given reference the runs on the board are slightly misleading but there is one interesting fact.
Season 2016 - 20 partnerships of over 100 - 8 away and 12 at home - Simmo involved in 5 of those partnerships
Season 2017 - 11 partnerships of over 100 - 3 away and 8 at home - Simmo involved in 1
Maybe the problem is we relied on him to much to either win or save us the match and this season for one reason or another it didn't materialise.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
selincourt (IP Logged)
02 October, 2017 00:10
The fact that Somerset haven't been penalised during the last year for producing a sub-standard pitch surely speaks volumes for producing a sub-standard pitch for the relegation decider n'est ce pas ? Just saying.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
selincourt (IP Logged)
02 October, 2017 00:10
The fact that Somerset haven't been penalised during the last year for producing a sub-standard pitch surely speaks volumes for producing a sub-standard pitch for the relegation decider n'est ce pas ? Just saying.

 
Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
selincourt (IP Logged)
02 October, 2017 00:11
The fact that Somerset haven't been penalised during the last year for producing a sub-standard pitch surely speaks volumes for producing a sub-standard pitch for the relegation decider n'est ce pas ? Just saying.
Received moderation message in error.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2017 00:13 by selincourt.

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