The Taunton AGM
By Grockle
October 21 2008
It's the meeting season again - the regionals first and this is the central one. We are going to get the ECB presentation tonight so that should be interesting. Both Richard Gould and Andy are on the top desk and Andy Nash and Roy Kerslake are int he audience. We shall see what we shall see.
October 21 2008
It's the meeting season again - the regionals first and this is the central one. We are going to get the ECB presentation tonight so that should be interesting. Both Richard Gould and Andy are on the top desk and Andy Nash and Roy Kerslake are int he audience. We shall see what we shall see.
The Taunton AGM - Old Pavilion Tuesday 21 October 2008
Top Table Richard Gould, Andy Hurry, Mary,
Andy Nash and Roy Kerslake in the audience but less than 50 here. Usual suspects in the main the meeting was held in the Old Pavilion so there might have been a few who come late. Richard mentioned that the Gimlett “Hill” (seems to be the name we are going with) will look really good when its done. We’ll keep our eyes open for developments.
Mary read the minutes of the last meeting and then gave her Honorary Secretary's report. Good CC1 performance. We would have settled for 4th at the start of the season. No comment on our one day stuff. £2.5K to MT's benefit.
The Treasurer's report is regional to a great extent but Taunton always work hard and the Fitzhead BBQ event is always good (guest cooks Ian Blackwell, Andy Caddick and Marcus Trescothick) and the committee raised well over £12,000 - excellent effort from volunteers. £9K went to the club and they've proudly funded the new scoreboard with their donations of £20K over 2 years. Brilliant stuff.
A late comer is Brian Rose who pops in at the back for the Chairman's report (been at the dentists). Thanks to the car parking volunteers. The Chair's report matches Mary's to a great extent but he mentions the fact that we were lucky to stay in the Pro40 and seemed to throw away the last CC1 game from a commanding position (not sure I agree but there you go).
The main part of the meeting is the Andy and Richard show.....
He thanks the area committee - the Ascot Ladies day was a 'good session' it seems.
Richard presents the presentation Somerset delivered to the ECB on Monday.
Cricket - He starts with a chart of our performances since 2004. We were top of 20/20 rankings in 2005 but we were 17th in the others in the same year. 2006 between 15th and 18th in all competitions - some of the youngsters weren't going to make it. Since 2006 (Brian Rose and Andy Hurry era).
Next comes a Venn diagram with all the role of the main people Head Coach, Director of Cricket and Captain. Team selection? The final decision is in the hands of The Director of Cricket.
On to Team philosophy in 2006 - We are the pride of Somerset, one team in a working and winning environment believing in feedback not blame but with individual responsibility. The team commit to and follow leaders and regularly celebrate success. This was developed by the team.
Then 'Elite Performance Behaviours' - about 20 of these and the players decided high performance standards to measure their performance. Things like - Food, Planning, Warm Up, Lifestyle. They also identified Average performance indicators - alcohol. levels of sleep etc
Richard listed the players. Craig Kieswetter qualifies in 2010. One's to watch. Peter Trego should get recognition...missed agian. Good list of "up and comers" James Burke, Chris Jones, Jos Butler, Adam Dibble (all looking at contracts after finishing A levels next year). Niel Edwards has been picked up by the ECB Skills sets recently and Mark Turner and James Hildreth have both been noticed, Arul Suppiah is still qualifying but that is expected to happen next year.
The club is expecting to reach about £2m in playing costs this season so they are throwing money at it since 2006.
Income - subscriptions were up this year (7th or 8th in the counties this year). We sell on watching Somerset. Game receipts are going up. ECB revenue has dropped - partly because of an increase in Kolpaks and income from Marcus playing for England is no longer there.
Maps of membership came next - there's a lot of them and they are looking to get the "odd watchers" on board in the next few years.
Richard thanked the members for their patience during the building work. The new stand will have 3,000 seats. Part of the 'flat stuff' includes 4000 sq feet of restaurant and retail space owned by the club which should have a client by the start of next year?
We've missed the crdit crunch so we will finish what we've started. The "Gimblett Hill" will blend in with the churchyard. We had an artists impression - it looks interesting, and they plan trees, the park benches and planters on it. The top of the wall is planted with things along its wholoe length.
The "Club Hub" - changing facilities are 26 years old. Improved facilities = increased professionalism. Physio, hydrotherapy, rehab gym etc plus offices etc. It joins to the indoor school with this inside of the 'hub' being mostly glass to gell the club. It started 7 weeks ago and will be complete by June 1.
The club has commited £5.3m for 2006 to 2009 to deliver these projects without 'significant additional borrowing'.
No money from Sport England (possibly 2012 took most of that) or the ECB! Hope that they may respond to this point after Monday.
Next is the CA Pavilion - conference and banqueting facility. We saw a revamp with a 'Long Room'. Planning is in for that in next 3 months and a decision will be made early next year. There will therfore be an enhanced membership system for use of the Long Room - VP's may exist after all. Life members may have to upgrade to use it.
The OP is looking a bit ragged and this was emphasised to the ECB "Cricket can't wait". Planning permission exists for the next 5 years but we have no money for it at the moment. - looking to the ECB for some support - it isn't about Test cricket alone boys!!
Questions
This is where we got the real stuff of this meeting!Will the ECB provide floodlights? The ECB is promising about 500K for floodlights but Somerset are holding fire on decisions because we're not sure how useful they would be. It changes the demographic of the supporting public as well. The club is not yet convinced about them and there are all sorts of planning issues for them at the County Gorund
What's happening to Barnicotts? In the short term we may rent it as use as an incubation unit for small business's. We had to buy it. Without it we would have had problems with other deveopments. But what to do with it is still a discussion pointImprovement of the covers? We will be looking to improve them and pitch drainage. And in comes Brian Rose and the meeting really gets going!
We need to make the pitch cricket friendly with a better outfield - possibly spending money on the outfield is a better investment than spending on floodlights.
This cricket ground is going to be the best ground in the world outside of Test match grounds (Brian Rose).
Then unsolicited comment....
Personalities in cricket teams are difficult to manage. By 2010 we will have 8000+ seating and the best possible players we can get. Some of the people we have might not get there and there are very difficult decisions to be made.
We have 5 players in the U17 England setup - that is important and most of them will come onto the playing squad.Brian is going to take hard decisions whether we like it or not. The game is changing and we have to change with it.
One dayers – Ian Blackwell. Why did he not play in our pro40? Brian will tnot tell a public forum what he has discussed with players confidentially. If we want the managers to operate a full and open dialogue with the playing staff about what they need to do to improve then he can’t tell the members the nature of those conversations. Players have to know that they can trust their management (and that includes all the players one would imagine). Trust the management to make the right decisions.
Has Ian got a future here? Some supporters do not believe in the captain at the moment (hear hear from some members). What matters to Brian is that we have players who will play for us in the next 4 or 5 years. That is all that counts. He will take the decisions that are important and if he doesn’t make the right ones then they can ask for his resignation. He will personally take responsibility for the decisions – the buck stops with Brian.
That came over very very clearlyAre we happy that Mark Turner will be working with Kevin Shine? Mark made the decision aabout working within the England format. He has a huge future in the game and with this club. Shame he was injured at vital parts of the season but he wants to play at the top level and being involved with the national side is important in that.
When are players back? They return to start work on 10 November with 2 objectives - to be stronger and fitter and to drastically improve their one day performances.
There was then more support for Ian Blackwell from the floor suggesting that he was one of the most important players in the eyes of the majority of the supporting public (went over the top a bit really) and this was an issue of man management and needed sorting.
Brian became very passionate at this point. This is not an issue about Ian Blackwell. It's about SCCC and the future. If you dpon't like that then leave. Brian is in charge it isn't about individual players and people need to support the collective and he will make the decisions he believes right whether we like it or not.
Richard spent most of this part of the meeting pouring oil on stormy waters but he did make a good point that all the main club officials were in fact present to answer these questions and Brian was certainly up to the task even if some did not like the answer.
Would any problems with Pegasus affect the club? No we had already got the main benefits from our deal with them. We would have no problems?
The meeting ended at 9:00
The message is....
Brian Rose is in charge and he will take the decisions that are best for the future of Somerset County cricket Club and take responsibility if his decisions do not get the club where it should be.
Clear enough to me - I now understand where the buck stops
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The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 18:43
The Taunton AGM
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 20:59
No mention of Blackie, yet. I shall be asking the question, either in person or by proxy at the South Somerset meeting.
Sounds like lots of waffle and pancakes.
Sounds like lots of waffle and pancakes.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 21:08
Thanks for the report Grockle.
I am still digesting it.
[
I am still digesting it.
[
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 21:31
May I plead that we respect our greatest ever home-born batsman by spelling his name correctly as Gimblett? It's been written incorrectly several times recently on this site and I can bite my tongue no longer.
But thanks for the speedy report, Grockles.
LoL
Sixty Seasons a Somerset Supporter
But thanks for the speedy report, Grockles.
LoL
Sixty Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 21:42
Sorted LoL
I got what I needed from this.
There are issues with Ian (and possibly other 'personalities'?) within the club which are being dealt with in a full and open manner.
The man in charge is Brian Rose and he is dealing with it.
He will make the decisions that he feels are best for SCCC
If we don't like it - tough - and if the decisions don't poduce the goods Brian will offer his resignation and take responsibility.
What he won't do is take the club "back 30 years" - take that how you want to.
Hmmm....
Mr B - if you ask the same question I think you'll get the same answer because it seemed to have been discussed and this was the response of the officials whoever they were.
I got what I needed from this.
There are issues with Ian (and possibly other 'personalities'?) within the club which are being dealt with in a full and open manner.
The man in charge is Brian Rose and he is dealing with it.
He will make the decisions that he feels are best for SCCC
If we don't like it - tough - and if the decisions don't poduce the goods Brian will offer his resignation and take responsibility.
What he won't do is take the club "back 30 years" - take that how you want to.
Hmmm....
Mr B - if you ask the same question I think you'll get the same answer because it seemed to have been discussed and this was the response of the officials whoever they were.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Tractor (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:05
Good report Grocks. Sounds like a corker of a meeting.
I'm keen on the suggestion of VPs getting something back after something was taken from them - something which might just tip the balance in favour of another VP purchase next year rather than the standard membership (the yearbook and the tourist game don't quite measure up as VP benefits I'm afraid - please don't mention the twenty20s), but lifers might 'have to upgrade to use it'??? Another tier of membership could apply perhaps: 1)members, 2)VPs, 3)Lifers, 4) Upper Lifers?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:21:22:27:22 by Tractor.
I'm keen on the suggestion of VPs getting something back after something was taken from them - something which might just tip the balance in favour of another VP purchase next year rather than the standard membership (the yearbook and the tourist game don't quite measure up as VP benefits I'm afraid - please don't mention the twenty20s), but lifers might 'have to upgrade to use it'??? Another tier of membership could apply perhaps: 1)members, 2)VPs, 3)Lifers, 4) Upper Lifers?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:21:22:27:22 by Tractor.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:09
Very informative report, thanks Grockle.
Lets hope Brian is true to his word and does sort things out. Sounds like he is working very hard at the future of the club so we need to trust what he's doing.
He surely knows Blacky's cricketing ability so if the worst does happen and he leaves we need to trust that Brian honestly thnks that is for the best of the club. Clearly he knows all the facts and we dont, and arent going to.
Lets hope Brian is true to his word and does sort things out. Sounds like he is working very hard at the future of the club so we need to trust what he's doing.
He surely knows Blacky's cricketing ability so if the worst does happen and he leaves we need to trust that Brian honestly thnks that is for the best of the club. Clearly he knows all the facts and we dont, and arent going to.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:10
I would suggest that if Brian Rose isn't prepared to discuss the IB situation openly and honestly with the people who pay his wages, then he should resign.
His replies, as reported, are unacceptable to me.
I want guarantees that our best players will be playing. If not, perhaps he should take his rudeness elsewhere.
His replies, as reported, are unacceptable to me.
I want guarantees that our best players will be playing. If not, perhaps he should take his rudeness elsewhere.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:14
Trouble is we dont know the facts and Brian does.
Until we are told we wont know if its something we should be aware of or not. Clearly Brian isnt going to give us the chance to decide for ourselves.
So it is just trust him or lump it...
Until we are told we wont know if its something we should be aware of or not. Clearly Brian isnt going to give us the chance to decide for ourselves.
So it is just trust him or lump it...
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:24
Well you'll be able to tell him so at your AGM Both in person or by proxy.
He wasn't at all rude. He was forthright and clear in what he saw his job as. The impression he gave was that there was two sides to this but he wasn't going to break confidence to let us into what was happening from both sides.
His message was pretty simple. Support the club or don't but the club wqas bigger than one player (and I read that as a reference to more than just Ian).
So don't take offence. If you feel strongly then his solution is don't take out membership. But if you do you will have to trust the management to do the right thing.
So...if you're gonna question them I suggest you take a different tack to tying it to a question about Ian.
He wasn't at all rude. He was forthright and clear in what he saw his job as. The impression he gave was that there was two sides to this but he wasn't going to break confidence to let us into what was happening from both sides.
His message was pretty simple. Support the club or don't but the club wqas bigger than one player (and I read that as a reference to more than just Ian).
So don't take offence. If you feel strongly then his solution is don't take out membership. But if you do you will have to trust the management to do the right thing.
So...if you're gonna question them I suggest you take a different tack to tying it to a question about Ian.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:29
Sounds fine to me Grockle.
We have to trust him as what he says is right, the club is and always should be bigger than any player, or management.
In an ideal world all players and management would get on perfectly but this is rarely the case. Therefore as much as any one player may be liked by the fans the best way forward for the club has to be paramount.
Im very hopeful that all (ie Rose, Langer and Blacky) have the very best interests of SCCC at heart so fingers crossed all will be resolved and all will be there come April ready for the 2009 campaign...
We have to trust him as what he says is right, the club is and always should be bigger than any player, or management.
In an ideal world all players and management would get on perfectly but this is rarely the case. Therefore as much as any one player may be liked by the fans the best way forward for the club has to be paramount.
Im very hopeful that all (ie Rose, Langer and Blacky) have the very best interests of SCCC at heart so fingers crossed all will be resolved and all will be there come April ready for the 2009 campaign...
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:46
It's pretty clear WSM.
Do you have faith in Rose's ability to manage the situation?
If so then let him get on with it. If not then he'll manage it anyway and take the consequences and you can do what you like but don't join this year and then complain because it isn't explained to you. it won't be.
I'm gonna have to think about that one myself but at least I'm perfectly clear who is in charge now. Do I think he sees the situation clearly? I don't have the facts so i have to decide if I have the faith.
The issue of player confidence is always a tricky one and we've been here before. If you want them to talk openly then they have to be sure that what they say stays in the club. It's a tightrope walk for administrators and a hell of a balancing act for players and managers alike.
Has Rose got it right? Have to think about that myself but he believes he has and will work on that basis irrespective of what I think.
Do you have faith in Rose's ability to manage the situation?
If so then let him get on with it. If not then he'll manage it anyway and take the consequences and you can do what you like but don't join this year and then complain because it isn't explained to you. it won't be.
I'm gonna have to think about that one myself but at least I'm perfectly clear who is in charge now. Do I think he sees the situation clearly? I don't have the facts so i have to decide if I have the faith.
The issue of player confidence is always a tricky one and we've been here before. If you want them to talk openly then they have to be sure that what they say stays in the club. It's a tightrope walk for administrators and a hell of a balancing act for players and managers alike.
Has Rose got it right? Have to think about that myself but he believes he has and will work on that basis irrespective of what I think.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: VictheFish (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 22:57
Just out of interest,
Did AH look directly at BR or was he more shiftilly looking at the desk in front of him?
You can gauge a lot by body language ...
He types.
VtF.
Did AH look directly at BR or was he more shiftilly looking at the desk in front of him?
You can gauge a lot by body language ...
He types.
VtF.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2008 23:02
Not sure Vic. He was sitting and Rosey was standing in front of him. Andy took the last questions about Turner and a bit of a dig at one of our ex-head coaches. Bit of a concerted effort really although Rosey was not there at the start and stood at the back for the first two thirds of the meeting after arriving from a visit to the dentist in Bristol it seems. Maybe his teeth were still hurting.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: BristolRob (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 00:20
"We sell on watching Somerset" and"looking to get odd watchers on board" won't increase membership or attendance.
Most odd watchers watching Somerset would probably attended a Pro40 match and watched a weakened side and would not be inclined to come again.
Most odd watchers watching Somerset would probably attended a Pro40 match and watched a weakened side and would not be inclined to come again.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Congar (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 04:19
I am not a member so I appreciate these reports of the AGMs. However, three of my family are VPs so I feel they were shortchanged by decisions not to select the strongest team for the Pro40 tournament.
I also feel that,in mid-season, we became a non-competitive team and lost momentum which affected our performance in the CC. This was the most disappointing aspect of a season that potentially could have been the most successful in our history.
I have great respect for Brian Rose, he was an outstanding captain of a team that must have been difficult to lead. However, the confidentiality argument is beginnig to wear thin. At some point he has to be able to agree what he is going to say with all concerned. That would be showing respect for the supporters.
BR is looking at a 4-5 year planning period, for me Ian Blackwell has to be part of the team to achieve success in any competition during that time. Reassurance that he is also part of BR's plans would be great.
The Director of Cricket resigning as we subside into the CC 2nd Division is not an appropriate vision.
I also feel that,in mid-season, we became a non-competitive team and lost momentum which affected our performance in the CC. This was the most disappointing aspect of a season that potentially could have been the most successful in our history.
I have great respect for Brian Rose, he was an outstanding captain of a team that must have been difficult to lead. However, the confidentiality argument is beginnig to wear thin. At some point he has to be able to agree what he is going to say with all concerned. That would be showing respect for the supporters.
BR is looking at a 4-5 year planning period, for me Ian Blackwell has to be part of the team to achieve success in any competition during that time. Reassurance that he is also part of BR's plans would be great.
The Director of Cricket resigning as we subside into the CC 2nd Division is not an appropriate vision.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grizzzly (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 05:11
Thanks Grockle.
Much as I have always admired Brian Rose, I'm not sure that simply saying words to the effect that "I'm in charge, so I'll do what I want", really fits the situation.
It is not a question of supporting SCCC - we all do that in whatever way we see fit. It is more a case of trying to understand the seeming undercurrents that plagued much of our one day season in 2008.
It rather sounds from a distance that BR protesteth too much. Maybe a follow up question at a suitable opportunity would be 'what would convince you that IB is ready to return to SCCC's one day team ?
Was anything said re the relationship between JL & IB (& others ?) Grockle ?
Grizzzly
P.S. As for the four/five year player timescale, well surely a key point here is that JL certainly will NOT be here across that period (at least not as a player), whereas many would hope that IB/PT etc. will be !!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:22:05:15:18 by Grizzzly.
Much as I have always admired Brian Rose, I'm not sure that simply saying words to the effect that "I'm in charge, so I'll do what I want", really fits the situation.
It is not a question of supporting SCCC - we all do that in whatever way we see fit. It is more a case of trying to understand the seeming undercurrents that plagued much of our one day season in 2008.
It rather sounds from a distance that BR protesteth too much. Maybe a follow up question at a suitable opportunity would be 'what would convince you that IB is ready to return to SCCC's one day team ?
Was anything said re the relationship between JL & IB (& others ?) Grockle ?
Grizzzly
P.S. As for the four/five year player timescale, well surely a key point here is that JL certainly will NOT be here across that period (at least not as a player), whereas many would hope that IB/PT etc. will be !!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:22:05:15:18 by Grizzzly.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 08:13
Quote:Grockle
Well you'll be able to tell him so at your AGM Both in person or by proxy.
He wasn't at all rude. He was forthright and clear in what he saw his job as. The impression he gave was that there was two sides to this but he wasn't going to break confidence to let us into what was happening from both sides.
His message was pretty simple. Support the club or don't but the club wqas bigger than one player (and I read that as a reference to more than just Ian).
So don't take offence. If you feel strongly then his solution is don't take out membership. But if you do you will have to trust the management to do the right thing.
So...if you're gonna question them I suggest you take a different tack to tying it to a question about Ian.
Quote by Grockle
"Brian became very passionate at this point. This is not an issue about Ian Blackwell. It's about SCCC and the future. If you dpon't like that then leave."
The last line appears to be rude.
I feel that club management should be answerable to members reasonable questions. The Blackie issue is a major concern to everyone that I talk to, in fact the only concern!
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 08:41
I guess BR was referring back to the time of Richards, Garner and Botham and the blood-letting that happened back then.
It was never quite clear then (at least to me) what the undercurrents were that led to the non-renewal of contracts but it was very likely that those three had not been managed closely and had been allowed to do what they wanted.
What was implied was that they had become unmanageable and that there were factions within the dressing room which led to a less than united (or effective) front on the field.
It was a very bad time for SCCC and I (and many others) walked away at that point. I certainly believed that the club had been badly let down by weak management.
IF BR feels that there is a risk of that happening again then he is right in taking a very firm line - even if it means losing one of our best-loved sons. No one man can be greater than the team - whoever it is.
I do trust BR's judgement and will accept the decisions he makes. But they do need to be proved right in the fulness of time.
We do not have a right to know in detail what goes on in the SCCC dressing room - and I suspect that many of the committee aren't party to that either.
If BR does get it wrong he will be man enough to admit it and fall on his sword.
It was never quite clear then (at least to me) what the undercurrents were that led to the non-renewal of contracts but it was very likely that those three had not been managed closely and had been allowed to do what they wanted.
What was implied was that they had become unmanageable and that there were factions within the dressing room which led to a less than united (or effective) front on the field.
It was a very bad time for SCCC and I (and many others) walked away at that point. I certainly believed that the club had been badly let down by weak management.
IF BR feels that there is a risk of that happening again then he is right in taking a very firm line - even if it means losing one of our best-loved sons. No one man can be greater than the team - whoever it is.
I do trust BR's judgement and will accept the decisions he makes. But they do need to be proved right in the fulness of time.
We do not have a right to know in detail what goes on in the SCCC dressing room - and I suspect that many of the committee aren't party to that either.
If BR does get it wrong he will be man enough to admit it and fall on his sword.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 08:48
Less money from the ECB because of our Kolpak players, who fault is that?
We had a least two to many. Banks was only played to justify his signing, where Blackwell would have done a better job.
I hate that attitude like it or lump it.
replying to letters even to say b… off would be a good start.
If you have one bad apple and it is affecting three or four others,(It is not only Blackwell) you don’t get rid of the affected ones and keep the bad one.
I crossed the last paragraph out it may only make sense to me.
Edited :- I have removed a remark that upset someone.
[
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:24:10:48:50 by Mike BOS.
We had a least two to many. Banks was only played to justify his signing, where Blackwell would have done a better job.
I hate that attitude like it or lump it.
replying to letters even to say b… off would be a good start.
I crossed the last paragraph out it may only make sense to me.
Edited :- I have removed a remark that upset someone.
[
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:24:10:48:50 by Mike BOS.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: evelyn34 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 09:03
Thank you Grockle for that very concise report of the Taunton meeting.
I am very disapointed with Brians answers( or evasions.) As loyal members and supporters we should have a right to better than that.
I am wondering about the "upgrading" for the life members Also If we don`t like what BR is doing can we get our money back?
I am very disapointed with Brians answers( or evasions.) As loyal members and supporters we should have a right to better than that.
I am wondering about the "upgrading" for the life members Also If we don`t like what BR is doing can we get our money back?
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 09:05
Just as you thought it was safe to go back onto the Grockles website again, along come the AGMs.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 09:40
Quote:Mike BOS
If you have one bad apple and it is affecting three or four others,(It is not only Blackwell) you don’t get rid of the affected ones and keep the bad one.
I crossed the last paragraph out it may only make sense to me.
I have had my suspicions for a while, Mike. Dips in players form, resting etc leads to conclusions.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 09:43
I did get the impression that Brian was very conscious of the 'bloodletting' era in the club - perhaps a little too conscious? He did say that Somerset was never about Viv and it isn't about Ian in one of his answers so he sees the comparison - although I myself don't to that degree.
One thing I do think we all need to be careful about - and it was brought up at the very start of all this - is that we don't damage Ian's reputation with the club by "bigging him up" as almost the reason why the club performs well or not based on his presence in the team. I don't think he's ever said that but it might be interpreted that way if it keeps coming up in suporters meetings in those terms. Ian is one of many, he's just a significant absence from the one day setup.
Nothing was said about any relationship of any player to anyone else.
Rosey did react to references to Ian in a very matter of fact way - no jokes, no smiles. Whatever is happening is serious and I'm not sure it has been solved or will be solved to our satisfaction. One can only hope that a positive plan has been included in the strategy for next year and it is one agreed by all parties and one they are working on.
Supporters did make it clear that they were vocalising what they believed were the thoughts of the general membership and Richard Gould took that point.
Oh and Botham. How you think something was said and how it actually was said are two entirely different things. You weren't there so you do have a problem being pedantic about it
Just take it from someone who actually heard it that there was no rudeness and no-one felt that it was intended that way. I'm sure if he's rude to you or your proxy in Dorset you'll put him straight.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:22:12:24:46 by Grockle.
One thing I do think we all need to be careful about - and it was brought up at the very start of all this - is that we don't damage Ian's reputation with the club by "bigging him up" as almost the reason why the club performs well or not based on his presence in the team. I don't think he's ever said that but it might be interpreted that way if it keeps coming up in suporters meetings in those terms. Ian is one of many, he's just a significant absence from the one day setup.
Nothing was said about any relationship of any player to anyone else.
Rosey did react to references to Ian in a very matter of fact way - no jokes, no smiles. Whatever is happening is serious and I'm not sure it has been solved or will be solved to our satisfaction. One can only hope that a positive plan has been included in the strategy for next year and it is one agreed by all parties and one they are working on.
Supporters did make it clear that they were vocalising what they believed were the thoughts of the general membership and Richard Gould took that point.
Oh and Botham. How you think something was said and how it actually was said are two entirely different things. You weren't there so you do have a problem being pedantic about it
Just take it from someone who actually heard it that there was no rudeness and no-one felt that it was intended that way. I'm sure if he's rude to you or your proxy in Dorset you'll put him straight.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:22:12:24:46 by Grockle.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 09:50
Thanks, Grockle, for the excellent report (although LoL would be disappointed if I didn't point out that there's still a Gimlett in the bold text near the top).
This all simply confirms to me what I have believed throughout, that there are issues between employer and employee about which we have no "right to know", but that a firm competent hand is on the tiller.
Don't get me wrong; I fervently hope that the issues that exist can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction; but I have no doubt that Brian Rose has the club's cricketing best interests, in the most holistic sense, at heart.
This all simply confirms to me what I have believed throughout, that there are issues between employer and employee about which we have no "right to know", but that a firm competent hand is on the tiller.
Don't get me wrong; I fervently hope that the issues that exist can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction; but I have no doubt that Brian Rose has the club's cricketing best interests, in the most holistic sense, at heart.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 09:59
I do think that's the best we can hope for FE (I'll sort the other one out later - Thanks). I'm more worried about the "baggage from Shepton" this morning than I was last night I do have to admit. But I know who's in charge now which is a step in a right direction.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 10:26
Quote:Grockle
Oh and Botham. How you think something was said and how it actually was said are two entirely different things. You weren't there so you do have a problem being pedantic about it
Just take it from someone who actually heard it that there was no rudeness and no-one felt that it was intended that way. I'm sure if he's rude to you or your proxy in Dorset you'll put him straight.
Pardon me for having an opinion and for having the temerity to express it.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 12:46
Thanks again for your report Grockle, it was so detailed that having read the report on the other site I wonder if it was the same AGM (lack of detail).
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Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 14:29
One thing I will contact Richard Gould and suggest is that a shortened version of their ECB presentation could go on the site for those members and others who do not go to the AGM's. It seems to be in the public domain so I don't see an issue...anyway it's worth a try. There was some interesting stuff and we didn't get to look at it all in detail on the night.
It sells the club well and it would be a shame to just bin it.
It sells the club well and it would be a shame to just bin it.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Ronnie sabre (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 14:58
Grockle your report on the AGM is excellent. I am from Scotland and only get down to Taunton around twice a year for the cricket. For me, and I have been supporting Somerset since 1975, it is the highlight of my year. I can't wait for next year personally. BR was one of our best captains and I also trust him with the way things are going. But similar, to one player not being bigger than the club, how can one man (i.e him) be bigger than the club. Bottom line is he isn't and I hope for all our sakes that he is doing the "right thing"
Looks to me like Buttler, Jones, Burke et al might also be in our team come 2010 and I for one, look forward to that. What we need to ensure that there is enough experience and talent in the team to help them flourish and also to ensure Somerset continue to be successful.
I look forward to the reports on the other AGM's. It keeps the dark nights and supporting Motherwell FC at bay.
All the best
Ronnie
Looks to me like Buttler, Jones, Burke et al might also be in our team come 2010 and I for one, look forward to that. What we need to ensure that there is enough experience and talent in the team to help them flourish and also to ensure Somerset continue to be successful.
I look forward to the reports on the other AGM's. It keeps the dark nights and supporting Motherwell FC at bay.
All the best
Ronnie
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: tony in the pit of despair (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 19:10
I attended the meeting at Taunton.
In my view Brian Rose was both rude and bullying. The very senior member who asked a supplementary question about Ian Blackwell was spoken to in the manner of a hectoring Victorian schoolmaster. Should a respected member be told that if was not happy he should go to Gloucestershire? What an insult - Gloucs of all places.
Mr Rose's interpretation of being in charge would seem to be that he has dictatorial powers and will not brook any criticism.
My view is that Mr Rose should attend a prolonged course on man-management and public relations.
This should then be followed by a course on how to pick the strongest XI in differing forms of cricket and apply appropriate tactics.
Let commonsense and reason prevail
In my view Brian Rose was both rude and bullying. The very senior member who asked a supplementary question about Ian Blackwell was spoken to in the manner of a hectoring Victorian schoolmaster. Should a respected member be told that if was not happy he should go to Gloucestershire? What an insult - Gloucs of all places.
Mr Rose's interpretation of being in charge would seem to be that he has dictatorial powers and will not brook any criticism.
My view is that Mr Rose should attend a prolonged course on man-management and public relations.
This should then be followed by a course on how to pick the strongest XI in differing forms of cricket and apply appropriate tactics.
Let commonsense and reason prevail
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Palairet (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 19:11
Thank you for your report Lord Grockle, on what sounds to have been a much more animated meeting, than some which I have attended in the past.
I appreciate that it is solely a report, and one that appears to be very comprehensive at that; but you end it by saying: -
“The message is....
Brian Rose is in charge and he will take the decisions that are best for the future of Somerset County Cricket Club and take responsibility if his decisions do not get the club where it should be.”
I wonder whether Brian said exactly where he thinks the club should be: –
i.e. County Champions for the first time in about 120 years of trying; mid – table in Division 1; yo – yoing between Divisions 1 and 2?
And in the one – day format – winning the Twenty 20 competitions at the cost of everything else? Should we continue to go for a ‘quick fix’ Kolpak solution to our shortcomings? Should we groom prospective leaders to act as our captain instead of importing overseas players to fulfil this vital role; players who can simply walk away (as I am sure that Langer will do) with the possibility that much good work that might have been done prior to their appointment, might have been undone and nullified by a leadership style that is not in the best interests of the whole club?
The club must surely have a vision, and that vision must extend beyond the fact that we have a number of young players currently in the England Under 17 or Under 19 squads. For them, it is a great achievement and I wish them well. But don’t get too excited about it – it sounds like just more spin and really does not mean a great deal. These young players are a million miles away from establishing themselves as day – in, day – out county cricketers. I really hope for their sakes that they make the grade – each and every one of them – but there are so many who don’t. In recent years, Rob Woodman, Michael Parsons, Jamie Grove, Joe Tucker, Jason Kerr, Andrew Payne, Jeremy Hallett and others have played for England at representative level, but failed to make the grade at county level.
I recall that Brian Rose was a surprise appointment to the captaincy of Somerset in 1978. I supported that choice because he was one of the game’s thinkers and he proved that the decision to award the stewardship of the club to him was indeed a very wise one.
I supported his appointment in the newly – appointed post of Director of Cricket, and still do. When he says, “What he won't do is take the club back 30 years", he would appear to be referring to the time that he took over as club captain. It has been well – documented that Richards, Garner and Botham were allowed to seemingly do as they pleased, and the non – renewal of contracts to the two West Indians led to the abrasive special general meeting at Shepton Mallet some 8 years later. It is perfectly understandable that Brian does not want to see any discontent that there may be, continuing to rumble along for many years.
Having said that, I am a great believer that appropriate man – management can achieve a great deal. This is where I have concerns over Justin Langer in particular. On at least two occasions in 2006 and 2007, he has been reported as having visible altercations with members of the public at Taunton. Furthermore, he was lampooned by the national press this year, when they reported that he refuses to give an after – match interview after any game that Somerset loses. These are not the qualities that I expect from a leader of Somerset County Cricket Club, but then perhaps I expect too much?
Neither do I consider that he is a good leader in the one day format of the game, and if I were Ian Blackwell and was told by Langer that I would not feature in the Pro 40 competition then, who knows, I might well react by questioning the captain’s form and leadership in that particular format of the game.
And a final question to VictheFish, who I believe has disclosed on here before that he has enjoyed some form of working relationship with Andy Hurry. I know from press comments that Justin Langer thinks very highly of “Sarge" Hurry’s coaching methods.
However, a personal fault of mine is that I always try to read what may lie behind the lines that are written. I respect that you may not (and probably don’t) wish to elaborate on the following posting of yours.
Perhaps if we could have seen A.H’s body language, we too might have gauged a lot from what Brian Rose said!
Thank you once again, Grockle. I am sure that your report has given some food for thought to those who are intending to attend other Area A.G.M’s
I appreciate that it is solely a report, and one that appears to be very comprehensive at that; but you end it by saying: -
“The message is....
Brian Rose is in charge and he will take the decisions that are best for the future of Somerset County Cricket Club and take responsibility if his decisions do not get the club where it should be.”
I wonder whether Brian said exactly where he thinks the club should be: –
i.e. County Champions for the first time in about 120 years of trying; mid – table in Division 1; yo – yoing between Divisions 1 and 2?
And in the one – day format – winning the Twenty 20 competitions at the cost of everything else? Should we continue to go for a ‘quick fix’ Kolpak solution to our shortcomings? Should we groom prospective leaders to act as our captain instead of importing overseas players to fulfil this vital role; players who can simply walk away (as I am sure that Langer will do) with the possibility that much good work that might have been done prior to their appointment, might have been undone and nullified by a leadership style that is not in the best interests of the whole club?
The club must surely have a vision, and that vision must extend beyond the fact that we have a number of young players currently in the England Under 17 or Under 19 squads. For them, it is a great achievement and I wish them well. But don’t get too excited about it – it sounds like just more spin and really does not mean a great deal. These young players are a million miles away from establishing themselves as day – in, day – out county cricketers. I really hope for their sakes that they make the grade – each and every one of them – but there are so many who don’t. In recent years, Rob Woodman, Michael Parsons, Jamie Grove, Joe Tucker, Jason Kerr, Andrew Payne, Jeremy Hallett and others have played for England at representative level, but failed to make the grade at county level.
I recall that Brian Rose was a surprise appointment to the captaincy of Somerset in 1978. I supported that choice because he was one of the game’s thinkers and he proved that the decision to award the stewardship of the club to him was indeed a very wise one.
I supported his appointment in the newly – appointed post of Director of Cricket, and still do. When he says, “What he won't do is take the club back 30 years", he would appear to be referring to the time that he took over as club captain. It has been well – documented that Richards, Garner and Botham were allowed to seemingly do as they pleased, and the non – renewal of contracts to the two West Indians led to the abrasive special general meeting at Shepton Mallet some 8 years later. It is perfectly understandable that Brian does not want to see any discontent that there may be, continuing to rumble along for many years.
Having said that, I am a great believer that appropriate man – management can achieve a great deal. This is where I have concerns over Justin Langer in particular. On at least two occasions in 2006 and 2007, he has been reported as having visible altercations with members of the public at Taunton. Furthermore, he was lampooned by the national press this year, when they reported that he refuses to give an after – match interview after any game that Somerset loses. These are not the qualities that I expect from a leader of Somerset County Cricket Club, but then perhaps I expect too much?
Neither do I consider that he is a good leader in the one day format of the game, and if I were Ian Blackwell and was told by Langer that I would not feature in the Pro 40 competition then, who knows, I might well react by questioning the captain’s form and leadership in that particular format of the game.
And a final question to VictheFish, who I believe has disclosed on here before that he has enjoyed some form of working relationship with Andy Hurry. I know from press comments that Justin Langer thinks very highly of “Sarge" Hurry’s coaching methods.
However, a personal fault of mine is that I always try to read what may lie behind the lines that are written. I respect that you may not (and probably don’t) wish to elaborate on the following posting of yours.
Quote:VictheFish
Just out of interest,
Did AH look directly at BR or was he more shiftilly looking at the desk in front of him?
You can gauge a lot by body language ...
He types.
VtF.
Perhaps if we could have seen A.H’s body language, we too might have gauged a lot from what Brian Rose said!
Thank you once again, Grockle. I am sure that your report has given some food for thought to those who are intending to attend other Area A.G.M’s
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 20:15
An excellent and well thought out post, Palairet.
I hope to be able to attend at least two meetings and I expect some satisfactory answers to the Blackie affair and not the 'brush off'.
Membership subscriptions are quite high if one can only attend about 2/3 of the 1 day games, so we should expect some honesty from those whom we employ.
I hope to be able to attend at least two meetings and I expect some satisfactory answers to the Blackie affair and not the 'brush off'.
Membership subscriptions are quite high if one can only attend about 2/3 of the 1 day games, so we should expect some honesty from those whom we employ.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 20:25
Well Tony you were there and your entitled to a view on his manner.
The supplementary questioner didn't seem to be phased by Brian and the two people who did bring the subject of Ian up both seemed to be well prepared.
I thought the second person had the last word in the exchange and I can't be sure but I think the Gloucestershire reference was fromm Richard in an earler part of the meeting. However you may be right because I did have to plug my machine in at one point in the conversation.
Brian was certainly animated. Was he at the first regional meeting does any one know? Was it just that he'd already been asked these things? If it was he's going to be well peeved by the end of the series if he plans to go to many of them!
Mr P - my summing up quote needs some clarification - the reference to what was "good for Somerset" was by Brian's definition. He didn't make any reference to the specific targets just that we were going to be awesome on an awesome pitch by sometime around 2010 and some people here now may not survive the changes.
Andy did refer to an emphasis on one day improvements (but surely that was a pretty obvious thing to say anyway).
The supplementary questioner didn't seem to be phased by Brian and the two people who did bring the subject of Ian up both seemed to be well prepared.
I thought the second person had the last word in the exchange and I can't be sure but I think the Gloucestershire reference was fromm Richard in an earler part of the meeting. However you may be right because I did have to plug my machine in at one point in the conversation.
Brian was certainly animated. Was he at the first regional meeting does any one know? Was it just that he'd already been asked these things? If it was he's going to be well peeved by the end of the series if he plans to go to many of them!
Mr P - my summing up quote needs some clarification - the reference to what was "good for Somerset" was by Brian's definition. He didn't make any reference to the specific targets just that we were going to be awesome on an awesome pitch by sometime around 2010 and some people here now may not survive the changes.
Andy did refer to an emphasis on one day improvements (but surely that was a pretty obvious thing to say anyway).
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: tony in the pit of despair (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 21:31
Grockle, Brian Rose's comment about Gloucs was made with a flourish of the right hand and seemed to be directed at the wall rather than to a more northerly point. However it was said with some vehemence. The questioner was disturbed by the abruptness of the reply as confirmed in later conversation.
The main point is though that we have a director of cricket who seems unwilling to listen to the views of others, so convinced is he of the rightness of his own view.
Regardless of the argument about Ian Blackwell, surely it is commonsense to pick the strongest team for each competition.
This did not happen last season.
The main point is though that we have a director of cricket who seems unwilling to listen to the views of others, so convinced is he of the rightness of his own view.
Regardless of the argument about Ian Blackwell, surely it is commonsense to pick the strongest team for each competition.
This did not happen last season.
Re: The Taunton AGM
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2008 22:10
No argument from me Tony. It was discussed to death here during the Pro40.
Maybe the questionner should have commented at the time if he was disturbed - seems to be the best way to deal with people attempting to brow beat. I certainly didn't get the impression that Brian had got the upper hand in the conversation but that could be because I agreed with the points being made by the supporter.
Whether he brooks no criticism or not I think he got it clearly. He might not like it but he can't shut you up and I doubt your going to go away (and certainly not to Gloucestershire!)
However, what do you suggest as the next step?
I'm not certain that the majority of supporters lack faith in
Maybe the questionner should have commented at the time if he was disturbed - seems to be the best way to deal with people attempting to brow beat. I certainly didn't get the impression that Brian had got the upper hand in the conversation but that could be because I agreed with the points being made by the supporter.
Whether he brooks no criticism or not I think he got it clearly. He might not like it but he can't shut you up and I doubt your going to go away (and certainly not to Gloucestershire!)
However, what do you suggest as the next step?
I'm not certain that the majority of supporters lack faith in