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Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders

Flanders & Swann
By Ruby September 8 2008
Ruby writes an excellent and heartfelt review of the Pro40 match between Middlesex and Notts. An excellent debut match report, Ruby pulls no punches and lets us all know exactly how she feels. With intriguing insight along with the "from the heart" reporting, this is not easy reading, but is essential reading for the Middlesex fan.

Ruby Takes Her Love of Middlesex To Town

I really didn't want to have to do this.



Let me explain. Geography (bienvenue, Glasgow) and the demands of having to work for a living mean that I only get down to see games about once a month. Sky and the internet radio have to make up the rest. So I try and take a positive view when I can actually be here. And you know, last live game of the season, first match report and all, I was really hoping to be able to report a good win. A fluky win. A close loss. To be honest, anything but this.



Because today, we were awful.



Not disastrously awful. Not bowled out in twenty overs awful, or anything like that. Just limper than the lettuce in a Big Mac. When we needed to be Sarah Palin, we only managed Alistair Darling.



Sigh. I should get on with it, shouldn't I. I apologise for the length; I just have so much to whinge about. Indulge me.

Win the Toss and Bowl



Shaggy won the toss and bowled. A fair shout, in the circumstances; it drizzled on and off during the Notts innings and it was pretty murky when they came out. Nannes' initial overs were... moderate. The difficulty was Murtagh, who bowled as if hungover and went for 21 off 2 overs. Scott in desperation stood up to him during the second over, but unfortunately, the Middlesex Pie Shop then opened for business at both ends and Jefferson and Swann made the most of the offering of juicy four balls. Murtagh was eventually yanked unceremoniously out of the attack in favour of Henderson, who did slightly better.

I should note at this point re conditions that there was rain in the air and the light was rotten; I've been down brighter coalmines. But the Notts openers looked very assured and seven overs in, hadn't given a decent chance between them. Middlesex looked so uninterested in the field that I wasn't sure if they actually knew they could be relegated. They may though just have been knackered from the bewildering array of field changes they were put through.

I appreciate Shaggy's only been in charge for two games, but he has played with this team all season. He should by now have some idea of what their best fielding positions are; he doesn't seem to be sure of this. He was sending catchers out to the boundary when the spinners were on, but not Morgan who is our most assured catcher in the deep; very odd. There seemed to be a lack of a plan of how to get out any batsman during the Notts innings. I don't know whether homework on opposing batsmen - technique, known weaknesses and suchlike - just isn't being done, but Shaggy's tactics today mostly consisted of shifting the fielders aimlessly around and throwing the ball to the quicks and hoping for the best. Quite the contrast with the Notts fielding, but we'll come back to that.



Murtagh was brought back in the ninth over; we still unbelievably hadn't generated a single chance. This was slightly better from Tim; more sausage rolls than actual pies. Suddenly the fielders snapped to life and Malan conjured a run out for a desperately-needed wicket. The highlight of the game then followed; a small blonde child ran onto the field carrying drinks and bananas. No, not Adam London, but the mascot, who was our best performer on the day. The lads were energised by their bananas and Murtagh strung together a decent second spell, picking up a couple of wickets, with the extremely vocal encouragement of Scott, who seemed to be trying to cheer him up.

By now Tim's figures were quite respectable, camouflaging the shocking nature of his first two overs. My heart sank when Prince came to the wicket; I feared he would bat until Lords was in darkness and hell froze over. Surprisingly, he offered a chance early on which flew between keeper and slip. The light improved, Henderson bowled well... and the rain began.

Play continued as Daria and I sought refuge in the Long Room, muttering that we had been off most of Friday and Saturday for conditions no worse than those we were currently playing in. Patel and Prince scored very slowly whilst Daria chastised me for my sartorial choices (fishnets are completely appropriate attire for the Long Room) and elderly gentlemen blocked my view of Steven Finn. The rain went off, we went back out, Nannes came back and lo and behold, a wicket. Oh joy, oh rapture, 76 for 4, were we at last going to win a game?

You could have cut the tension with a marshmallow as Shaggy brought himself and Kartik on to try and drive down the run rate. Owais took a good catch to remove Prince, but to be honest I was increasingly bored by this time and was amusing myself trying to discern some sort of I-Ching like pattern to Shaggy's field changes, the principal result of which was to make Joyce pout like a five year old on the boundary. By the 27th over, I was bored of admiring Joyce's sulking too and fell to admiring Read's captain's knock: 109 for 5, 13 overs left, and blocking every ball. Play proceeded in this manner for a while, Notts unable to get the ball off the square, and Nannes brought back into the attack.


It was at about this time that I was astounded to catch sight of the official club captain in the pavilion, a man as difficult to shift as a cold sore. I find his persistent attendance in the dressing room on match days extremely difficult to comprehend, particularly now that he is confirmed as out for the season. Whether or not the Times rumours of his sacking are true, I have to say that if I was off work sick for an extended period of time, the last thing that whichever of my colleagues covering for me would find helpful would be for me to limp into work and rasp in their ear "You don't wanna do that; you wanna do this". I expect I would be sent sharply on my way, and it is difficult to see how Smith's conduct this season has assisted both the stand-in captains.


In the 34th over, Henderson removed that batting titan Read, and the impetus of the Notts late innings with him. Some people who weren't me appeared to be enjoying the game, judging from the tuneless rendition of "Championes" emanating from elsewhere in the ground. Must be Notts fans. Must be taking strong drink. We bowled pretty well at the end, cleaning up the tail thanks to some good catching from Malan and Joyce and a run-out off the last ball.

And Then To Bat


By the time our innings began, I had goosebumps where none should be thanks to the marvellous weather and was hoping for a decent run-chase to 181 to keep me warm. I shouldn't have got my hopes up; from the first over of the Notts innings it was clear that these were much, much better bowling conditions that we had made them look.

Joyce's first act on taking the field had been to complain about the light, and he did have something of a point. But Notts had managed in the gloom. At least Joyce can take some comfort from the fact that Udal seems even less able to conjure a decent performance from the squad. Increasingly, they look like a bunch with one eye on Antigua and the other on their holidays. But returning to a point of earlier, Read had a plan. He had Krusty the Clown - er, sorry, Charlie Shreck come round the wicket to our lefties and every one of them struggled with that. Every one. Also, Read puts his fielders where he wants them to be and the bowlers bowl to the field, not the other way around.

I know, I know, Shaggy's only been in charge a week, etcetera... but. It demonstrates a level of preparedness, a level of tactical forethought, that we just didn't show today and that our new director of cricket will have to instil in us if we want to go back to the big league. Where was I? Ah yes, the customary limp Middlesex batting display. This is beyond depressing now. These are good, talented players. They really are. But they appear to be going backwards rather improving. Is a specialist batting coach needed for next season to help them move their games to the next level? Is this something that the Messiah - I mean, the new Director of Cricket needs to consider?


I must give Notts their due though; they got plenty out of the new ball and generated numerous chances. The quality of the Notts tactics and the ability of their bowlers to implement them is best illustrated by this: of the recognised Middlesex batsmen, only Morgan wasn't out either bowled or LBW. Strauss was lbw in the 13th over, Shreck ended his sport with a thoroughly miserable-looking Joyce not long after he cracked a superb couple of boundaries, and Owais... well.

England have kept the real Owais and sent us Ian Bell in disguise. Ace came in in the 5th over, and by the beginning of the 12th, still hadn't summoned a single run. The light was failing, and the Duckworth-Lewis kept getting away from us. Shah and Morgan, the two finest stroke players in the side, couldn't get the ball off the square. It was like an Ingmar Bergman film, but with extra cricket. Notts were simply rattling through their overs thanks to fewer field changes: they got through 14 in 45 minutes. Shah and Morgan finally opened up a bit, and both played some beautiful shots. There was only a hint of our traditional suicidal running. Someone needs to sit Eoin down and explain that not everyone in the team is as jet-heeled as him. Owais departed lbw in the 17th over and Eoin was joined by Malan.


Then, it all went to hell.


Morgan, who was well set and had played some beautiful, clever shots, strolled down the wicket, flicked an innocuous pie from Ealham high into the air, and gave Adams catching practice in the deep. Now, Morgan is a truly special player, with a truly special range of shots and the ability to execute seemingly any of them at will. Morgan in full flow is a glorious, matchwinning sight. But this is not the first time this season that his brain has gone missing at a crucial interval in the match and left us royally screwed. His shot selection at times is incomprehensible, even - especially - when well set. He is in danger of turning into a small Irish Michael Slater. He is very young still, but he needs to be taught to be more responsive to match situations. We were chasing a reasonable total with him well set, and only two recognised batsmen to come in after him. I'll only say that some top-level coaching would probably help him with this, and then move on, because he did play exceptionally up to that point.


From then on in, the depressingly familiar writing was on the wall for us. The light brightened right up, depriving us of the faint hope that the rain and darkness would bring the pain to an early end. Malan perished to a pice of shot selection that I can't even bring myself to describe. Swann came on, we were behind Duckworth-Lewis again (don't even ask about the run rate. No, really, don't.) and the trudge to defeat began. Henderson hit a few crowd-pleasing sixes (strong drink was being taken in quantities by this point, judging by the singing), got out in the 30th over to Patel, but the game had been obviously lost since the Morgan hara-kiri. Scott and Udal struggled along for a while, before Udal was caught and bowled by Swann, the ultimate indignity. Murtagh came in, but I must admit by now I was too weary of the mediocrity to pay much attention. A shambolic, primary school run out between Kartik and Nannes ended the match and put everyone out of their misery.



I'm sorry. I tried to be positive, I really did. But it seems like the end of the season can't come quickly enough for the team. It certainly can't come quickly enough for the rest of us.

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Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Brian Wilson (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:10:20:26

Bit harsh on the bowlers and Shaggy's field placings; the outfielders certainly seemed to be in the right place for the several catches in the deep. But your piece does capture the gloom in both senses that hung over HQ yesterday.
The noisy fellows you mention were indeed Middlesex fans. Normally I snooze in the Mound from round about the end of fielding restrictions until taking afternoon tea in the Warner but no chance yesterday.
A little aside for them and all other champeones chanters; its Spanish and its campeones. Please get it right.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: LOVERBOY (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:12:38:21

Well,not sure I was at the same game as you two,because I thought we fielded and bowled well and kept the Notts.score within reasonable bounds.
We 'd have been happy chasing just 180.I don't disagree that shot selection was again poor,and a refusal for any to take responsibility to bat for a sustained period most worrying.
In the end we lost by 19 runs to the best team in the division,and we should not have done,but hardly the unmitigated disaster that's portayed here.
As for the critiscism of Ed Smith for actually turning up,I find that totally unacceptable.Whatever you may read in the papers he remains the club captain and his prescence at matches is welcomed ,despite his frustrating injury.
The captain on the field is in sole charge,and Ed is not there to interfere in any way ,but give encouragement, help,and advice when needed.
He may not be the most popular man at the club,but can you imagine the critiscism if he did NOT bother to show his face.
Whether captain or not,he is determined to regain full fitness and remain at the club next season.
Your comments are unnecessary and uncalled for Ruby,he deserves our support rather our condemnation.
Presumably Ruby you're the redhead rather than the blonde?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008:09:08:12:58:27 by LOVERBOY.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Tommy Enthoven (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:13:34:50

I think we should still have won the match even after Morgan was out. Scott should have been able to shepherd the tail to such a modest target.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: daria (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:13:44:13

Why, Loverboy, if you recognised us, you should have come to introduce yourself. We'd have been honoured, even if you did get it the wrong way around (I'm the redhead, Ruby is blonde.)

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: LOVERBOY (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:14:06:26

Daria,Loverboy is a shy and retiring individual,very wary of introducing himself to young ladies.
I,ve been in trouble for that sort of thing before,and besides I was accompanied by another young lady yesterday.
However it did not take me long to work out the identity of two such striking looking babes,and I look forward to meeting both next season,that's if I,m still allowed on this board by then,where I can assure you the pleasure will be all mine.
In the meantime,please not so harsh on our brave lads.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Ruby (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:14:27:16

Aww, you should have done. We could have done with the company; it was awful cold.

Anyway. I shall affix a coda re the bowling. The old adage of not knowing what a good score is until you've batted on the pitch was true of us and our bowling yesterday. Obviously I write the report with the benefit of hindsight: I thought 180 was a gettable score, Notts are a decent batting side and I thought we'd restricted them fairly well. (Barring the first half-dozen or so overs, which were not of the standard that Murtagh in particular is capable of.)

But Notts just bowled better. For one indicator, they gave away 3 extras to our 16. Our openers couldn't settle, and they made life hard for us all the way through, which we didn't do as well. They made better use of decent bowling conditions. When your skipper wins the toss and chooses to bowl, he clearly expects the opening partnership to do well up front, and I just don't think they did that well.

Also, although the batsmen could and should have done better, I'm wary of the persistent refrain (not from you) that every time we lose, it's the fault of the batsmen. As a unit, they have substantially underperformed this season. There's no getting away from that. But not every bad result (and boy, have there been some) can be laid at their door. It wasn't them who let the Glos nine and ten bat out for a draw. The bowlers have been a pretty hard worked unit this season, and mostly they've done very creditably. But I just don't feel that blaming the batsmen for everything is a helpful mindset.

Sigh. Maybe I'm just disappointed. I had some hopes for the Pro40 after the T20 success. I certainly though we'd avoid relegation. I know it's been a long difficult season. I know they're tired. But it just feels like one long rolling slab of doom at the moment, you know?

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: LOVERBOY (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:14:41:01

Fair comment Ruby,and a far more balanced opinion than I,ve heard from many of our detractors on here.
As you may have noticed I,m always keen to put a positive spin on our performances and am oft accused of not being critical enough,be it of the batters or the bowlers.
You're perfectly correct in your assesment that the fault could be more evenly distribited,however yesterday,and I acknowledge that Notts.bowled very well,it was that the batters were more culpable.
''Ruby,Ruby,Ruby,do ya,do ya ,do ya know what you're doing to me''will always keep you in mind when the Kaisers theme blasts out at Elland Road this winter.
Do either of you get up North at all?

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Ruby (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:14:53:44

Elland Road and its environs are of course, the South for me. (Sm14)

The batsmen didn't do well, totally agreed. I would have laboured the point more in the report but by that point I felt sad and had to stop. I do think Morgy is getting a bit more stick than he deserves. I think on another thread it was noted that if our lineup regularly leaves so much responsiblity on the shoulders of players as young as him, Malan, etcetera, they will make the mistakes of inexperience. Yesterday was an unfortunate example. Not the first this season, but well, them's the breaks. We ought to count ourselves extremely fortunate to have him, frankly.

(I do like the Kaisers, but it was Kenny Rogers I had in mind at the time.)

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:15:06:24

Ruby a great report, you are a gem. However, next time can you try to say what you really think.

Re match, until Hendo out I would say it was 50/50 and was close under Vera. I was partially responsible for Morgs dismissal having texted Ged in my ball by ball commentary, saying he was looking comfortable on 35.

I do have an issue with your comments re Ed O. Damned if he was there, damned if he wasn't. I actually see no harm in offering advice in geeing up team in his absence from field. It is not as if he is off for stress. Perhaps, on reflection Ruby you would like to review this comment.

Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Ruby (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:15:20:10

Noted, and I shall tone down the tact/diplomacy even further next time. Or possibly just submit the first draft?

I have reviewed comment re Smith. I still honestly don't get why he does it. It's something that has been occupying my mind most of this season. Is he there to play a full but non-playing role in the team, or not? Does he retain a decision-making role when injured? I'm genuinely not sure, and whatever light people have to shed, I would appreciate.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: LOVERBOY (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:16:23:08

Well Ruby,Smithy's part of the team,in fact he's club captain and does need to be around.
He does not have any descision-making role whilst he's not playing,and although no doubt some would rather he stayed out of the dressing room for evermore,others welcome him and are grateful for his imput.
He'll never out stay his welcome and certainly not intrude on the authority of Joyce or Udal when they are in charge,but he does need to consult with the coach and keep all informed of his current situation.
He's often there with his other half,or his Mum or Dad,and makes himself available to members as well.
I know him not very well,but always polite and charming ,I speak of him as I find rather than listen to the opinions of others.
As I,ve said before he's a year yet of his contract to run,and aims to see that out at least.

Well ---The shadows on the wall tell me the sun is going down on another season RUBY,but perhaps I'll catch you both at KIDDYMINSTER or HAMPTON NORTH,and just in case you're in doubt,LOVERBOY is another of those KENNY ROGERS lookalikes!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:09:08:16:35:11 by LOVERBOY.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: daria (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:17:20:41

LB

Sadly it is extremely unlikely that either Ruby or myself will be at any of the remaining matches of the season, as we both have to work for a living (hair dye and posh frocks don't come cheap). But we'll be back next season.

Your comments on Smith are noted; as the partner of a long time Kent fan my opinion of him may, I admit, be slightly biased.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Ged (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:17:29:43

As I said on the match thread, Daisy and I heard most of the Notts innings on the IR and received text messages from Barmy Kev to cover most of the Middx innings, so we are hardly in a position to wax lyrical about what happened, but it certainly brought on a severe attack of the late season blues for us two.

Excellent match report, although I personally agree with some of the "critique of the critique" that has followed on this thread.

But to me the great benefit of the Sportnetwork system is this ability to post editorial material with a message board thread attached so people can discuss the content and add to the debate.

The debate on this thread, as well as the match report has been excellent.

I would like to claim credit for the Kenny Rogers reference, as I added that section heading myself.

And before anyone recommends "Coward of the County" for one or more MTWD regulars, I would like to put in a word for my (oft-mentioned) favourite pastiche, the Heebee Geebees artiste pseudonymed "Kenny Rogerd" who sang the iconic ballad "You're a B*stard". Not aimed at anyone in paticular by me, I assure you.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Ed the Duck (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:17:34:17

I thought someone said they saw Smith before play.

Anyway on the 181 we needed to get was a decent chase but again our batting was woeful, but hay ho we have won a trophy, FFS, we have won one game since the 20-20 Final, that is unacceptable from where i am sat. We put ourselves in a position to win the game but then lost our heads.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Bluebadge (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:19:15:46

I felt that it was a very shabby batting performance yesterday, especially from the middle order, who looked like they wanted it over with quickly in a six and out fashion. The exception I felt was Scott who was nudging it round nicely in the way that those higher up the order should have been from the beginning. It was only when he ran out of decent partners that he started doing the sillies. A run-ish a ball for the last ten overs or so shouldn't have been beyond our capacity, although some credit is due to the Notts bowlers who bowled very well.

What has disappointed me since the Twenty20 win has been the lack of applied effort at winning matches. I've taken two guests to matches since Finals day, both of them potential new members. Trying selling Lord's to them on a murky September day with even murkier performances. I really enjoyed party night at the Nursery but someone seems to have forgotten that winning one trophy doesn't make you a great team, and with our players we should be at least a Division 1 team in both forms of the game.

I'm not normally so trenchant but I was really p'd off yesterday.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Primrose Hillbilly (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:08:19:17:48

Dear Ruby,

thank you so much for your write up and for your turn of phrase. Quite a delight to read.

I was on the point of putting a pair of shoes on and toddling over to the Nursery End at about Middx 58 - 2 with Shah and Morgan going well, but thought better of both it and of our potential for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, so I did my tax return instead.

Reading your description so catches some of the frustration (that has now turned into being resigned to our fate), with our results this year that I feel.

Please, if you feel like doing a match report in the future, don't hold back. You say it like you saw it, and "Damn the Torpedoes" - and for that matter, the feelings of anyone else.I'm sure that if we'd followed up restricting Notts with a good batting performance, you'd have called it so, but the fact is, in case it needs labouring, our batting let us down ...again.


Is there any chance you could draft a similarly elegiac Motion of No Confidence to help put some backbone into our underachieving batters for the End Of Season bash?

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: The Diamond ruled ok (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:09:05:21:30

Swann may have made it look like Flanders but a few of our batsmen made right "Neds" of themselves .

Stylish report Ruby,reported well and with heart, blow what anyone else says , let them disagree with parts of it if they wish but don't be put off just because they don't like what you saw .

As PH says above "Full ahead and damn the torpedos".

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: dynamo_harrow (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:09:08:01:58

Marvellous, descriptive report - thank you so much. Although, like Diamond, the heading made me expect Ned to pop over the garden fencerino.

The P40 form is hard to explain - same formula which worked so well for the shorter bash. It's not clear to me whether other teams had found a way of responding (and we lack a Plan B/6th bowler/reliable batsmen); or whether the team has gone off the boil and/or has end of term fever.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: LOVERBOY (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:09:10:25:50

An excellent report I agree,but why damn and blow what anyone else thinks.
If one disagrees or takes a differing view then this thread is the ideal place to express such views.
Surely as Ged says this is exactly the sort of lively debate we should indulge in far more often and exactly what MTWD was designed for.
Hypocrisy rears it's ugly head again when Diamond and The Hillbilly dismiss the views of others who offer a differing take on events, and condemn them out of hand.
No need either for the patronising tone of both your posts,Ruby needs no encouragement to contribute worthily in the future,and has demonstrated already her deep knowledge and understanding of events in the middle as has Daria before her,and their ability to report succintly, entertainingly,and with much imagination.
An ability sadly lacking in some of our other long-time posters and reporters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:09:09:10:43:34 by LOVERBOY.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Seaxe_Man (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:09:11:40:43

The opening overs that you report were spot on Ruby: though there were a couple of lucky edges off Dirk by Flanders and Swann which flew over the slips. At 54 off 7 overs they were in the box seat. However: as they only added a further 126 off 33 overs: this suggests that our out cricket improved from that point. There were three excellent catches in the deep by Shah + 2 by Malan which suggests they were in the right place. I agree totally with your descriptive summation of the batting: 181 was score that we should of got regardless. As you rightly say: the middle order who looked as if they could of won the match when they liked: got out with ridiculous shot selection: similar story to the Durham/Hants matches both of which should have been won. For those that can remember: either G.D.Barlow or C.T.Radley would have got us over the line in this situ: Morgan and Malan could/should have done that. A very descriptive report that no man could have managed. SM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:09:09:11:51:18 by Seaxe_Man.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: LOVERBOY (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:09:13:40:28

Given time SM,Morgan,Dawid, Billy,Danny and others will hopefully develop into the sort of reliable batsmen,that Rad and Ed Barlow were.
They were both Middlesex legends whose memory will live long in our hearts.
A bit unfair to compare our young braves with them ,at this early stage of their careers.

Re: Swann Makes Lord's Look Like Flanders
Posted by: Seaxe_Man (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:09:09:16:13:42

Lover: fair point. Bit short of experience. However, they still gave the impression it was theirs for the taking.

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