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MESSAGES->author
Meet_New_Mr_India
07 November, 2012 23:49
Andrew Strauss vs Justin Langer..

MESSAGES->author
ananthd
08 November, 2012 07:52
Langer...

He was the more attractive free flowing batsman and set the tone for one of the great teams of the modern era....

Strauss is a plodder for me, Gary Kirsten mould...



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2012 07:52 by ananthd.

MESSAGES->author
ananthd
08 November, 2012 07:56
Aravinda De Silva vs Kevin Pietersen....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

Sennen Lad
Sennen Lad
08 November, 2012 13:16
Hang on.....Strauss, a plodder???

I don't think there's much doubt that Langer would be chosen as the better player out of the two, but Struassy was much better than a simple "plodder".

audioman
audioman
08 November, 2012 17:25
Quote:
ananthd
Langer...
He was the more attractive free flowing batsman and set the tone for one of the great teams of the modern era....

Strauss is a plodder for me, Gary Kirsten mould...

Swap the two names, and most of that would have been my post. Hehe. A lot of Langer's success stemmed from having Haydos at the other end. To me, Strauss was easily the more attractive player. And Strauss' captaincy skills should tip the scales a bit.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
08 November, 2012 18:02
both Strauss and Langer, made the most of somewhat limited talents... hard for me to argue one way or the other...

Let's see what the numbers show:

Langer:

Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
Tests 105 182 12 7696 250 45.27 14192 54.22 23 30 912 40 73 0

Strauss

Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
Tests 100 178 6 7037 177 40.91 14385 48.91 21 27 867 10 121 0

MESSAGES->author
Meet_New_Mr_India
08 November, 2012 18:13
Langer was a very good player.. I don't quite agree that his success was due to hayden at the other end. I remember he had played some match saving/winning innings when the great Aussie team was in trouble.. Strauss was more stylish of the two but I would give slight upper hand to Langer as he was quite stubborn at the crease..

audioman
audioman
08 November, 2012 18:44
He averages a mere 41 before pairing up with Haydos at the top, where he averaged close to 50 almost and racked up 16 hundreds. Having Hayden at the other end had a lot to do with Langer's success. Good bloke, but not as good as Straussy.

MESSAGES->author
ananthd
08 November, 2012 18:46
Quote:
audioman
Quote:
ananthd
Langer...
He was the more attractive free flowing batsman and set the tone for one of the great teams of the modern era....

Strauss is a plodder for me, Gary Kirsten mould...

Swap the two names, and most of that would have been my post. Hehe. A lot of Langer's success stemmed from having Haydos at the other end. To me, Strauss was easily the more attractive player. And Strauss' captaincy skills should tip the scales a bit.

In modern times, openers with under 50 SRs are equivalent to 30 SR guys of the 80s....

Langer was a bit reckless, but his risks always seemed
calculated to me, reminded a little bit of Roy Fredericks...

And we weren't comparing captaincy only as batsmen....

By a plodder I didn't mean it in a pejorative sense, only that Strauss was of the Boycott/Wessells/Kirsten mould...

All these guys were fine players....

I'm a little partial to foolhardy openers...



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

MESSAGES->author
ananthd
08 November, 2012 18:57
Quote:
audioman
He averages a mere 41 before pairing up with Haydos at the top, where he averaged close to 50 almost and racked up 16 hundreds. Having Hayden at the other end had a lot to do with Langer's success. Good bloke, but not as good as Straussy.

In that period, Langer was in the middle order and didn't open the batting. So maybe it was just a position change.

Similarly, Strauss for the early part didn't open.

As an opener, I'll pick Langer over Strauss, as a middle order player Strauss over Langer.



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!

audioman
audioman
09 November, 2012 17:30
Quote:
ananthd
In that period, Langer was in the middle order and didn't open the batting. So maybe it was just a position change.

Not just position change. Here is why I think he lived his career off of Hayden. This is a list of all his centuries as an opener, and the corresponding opening partnership:

102 against England - 158 run opening partnership
104 against NZ - 224 run opening partnership
123 vs NZ - 223 run opening
116 vs RSA - 80 run opening
126 vs RSA - 219
250 vs England - 195
146 vs WI - 37
111 vs WI - 242
121 vs India - 73
117 vs India - 147
166 vs SL - 40
162 vs SL - 255
215 vs NZ - 137
191 vs Pak - 6
105 vs Eng - 185
100 vs Eng - 68

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
09 November, 2012 17:54
Quote:
ananthd
Aravinda De Silva vs Kevin Pietersen....

That is a very odd yet intriguing H2H... they are so dissimilar... one short, stocky, touch player, other tall, wiry, power player.. but yet in the end both are middle order bats who bowled off spin...

I'd pick KP by a whisker...but any captain would love to have either or both in their team...

audioman
audioman
09 November, 2012 18:49
^ Don't derail the thread. I wanna hear what more Ananth has on the Langer-Strauss discussion. Save this post for later.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
09 November, 2012 18:56
You don't need to respond...and the thread wont be "derailed"...

To me Langer v. Strauss is a non-issue...and we need to move on... IMO...both played beyond their natural lack of talent...and not much to choose between them... if pressed I'd pick Strauss only because he also had burden of captaincy...

MESSAGES->author
Meet_New_Mr_India
09 November, 2012 20:02
you are free to think that he lived off hayden but your list also proves that he scored centuries on his own too.. hence Langer over strauss as pure opening batsman point of view..

MESSAGES->author
ananthd
09 November, 2012 20:03
Quote:
audioman
Quote:
ananthd
In that period, Langer was in the middle order and didn't open the batting. So maybe it was just a position change.

Not just position change. Here is why I think he lived his career off of Hayden. This is a list of all his centuries as an opener, and the corresponding opening partnership:

102 against England - 158 run opening partnership
104 against NZ - 224 run opening partnership
123 vs NZ - 223 run opening
116 vs RSA - 80 run opening
126 vs RSA - 219
250 vs England - 195
146 vs WI - 37
111 vs WI - 242
121 vs India - 73
117 vs India - 147
166 vs SL - 40
162 vs SL - 255
215 vs NZ - 137
191 vs Pak - 6
105 vs Eng - 185
100 vs Eng - 68

Ok, Let me turn this around...

What were Hayden's career numbers in the period 94-00?

Can we say his career took off because he started opening with Langer?

These are Langer's career numbers in the period(He retired after 2006 season).

2000 - 2006: 76 Tests, 18 100s, 48 avg, 59 SR.

Hayden's in the same period:
2000 - 2006: 82 Tests, 26 100s, 55 avg, 60 SR.


I'd be hardpressed to call this an uneven partnership, given that Hayden's probably greatest Aussie opener by the numbers atleast....

You are making this look like the Sehwag-Gambhir partnership with Sehwag where Gambhir has clearly benefited by having Sehwag around to cart the bowling at 9O+ SR...


For me, both Hayden & Langer were late bloomers who were slightly miscast early in their careers with established openers like Tubby Taylor or Slater around....

When those guys winded down, these guys naturally flourished...



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 20:04 by ananthd.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
09 November, 2012 20:45
KP v. Greg Chappell...that would be a good comparison...

audioman
audioman
12 November, 2012 14:37
Quote:
ananthd
Ok, Let me turn this around...

What were Hayden's career numbers in the period 94-00?

Can we say his career took off because he started opening with Langer?

Good shout. But, to look at Matthew Hayden, I believe we need to look at his record post 31 Mar 2000, when he made a comeback into the Australia team, against New Zealand. The Hayden before that was not as good a player. After a gap of close to 3 years, he finally made it back into the Australian team as a better player. (Kinda like how you would tend to ignore the Damien Martyn of 7 years before he became the solid player) Between 31 Mar 2000 and the first time he opened with Langer (final test of the 2001 Ashes I believe, and possibly the same one where Butcher made a brilliant hundred to help England win, if memory serves me right), Hayden still managed a very good 48 with the bat. So, as much as it helped him to pair with Langer, he was already doing really well as an opener. But looking at it from Langer's perspective, though, the average jumps from a paltry 41 into the 50s. That is a remarkable jump.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
13 January, 2014 00:56
Starting this up again...

Swann v. Ajmal



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/01/2014 00:57 by Birbal.

bhagatghavri
bhagatghavri
06 May, 2014 04:25
The camprison between Richards and Tendulkar is not good. Its tough. Because both are the best in his era. But I like most Tendulkar Because of his dedication.

KBS1986
KBS1986
30 April, 2016 07:58
Seems like a cool thread but you guys should honestly try playing some fantasy leagues if you really think you know the game. I just started on Fanzoosport.com and they seem awesome. Completely free entry and won Rs 5000 last week itself. Check them out at Fanzoosports.com
they just launched a Rs 10,000 league so I am about to collect some big cash

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
16 June, 2016 21:05
Reboot...

Steve Smith v. Virat Kohli...

MESSAGES->author
ananthd
17 June, 2016 06:18
In Test matches, Smith by a whisker, the guy is an absolute leech on a bowling side when he gets set, besides, Smith is a useful leggie in Tests and a better slipper....


Virat's been great, but still I have questions about him and the moving ball, he sometimes goes at with hard hands.....


In all other formats, it's not even a debate, Kohli is the best limited overs(F50/T2O) player in the world....



24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/06/2016 06:28 by ananthd.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
18 June, 2016 14:43
Smith is as behind Virat in limited overs format as Virat is behind him in Tests...but I think Virat can improve as a Test batsman...more than Smith can as an ODI/T20I guy... so overall Virat is my pick...

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
18 October, 2016 02:27
Williamson v. Root..Both middle order guys... and I think Root will soon be captain too...

Both average 50 ish... Williamson just got found out by Ashwin in India... Root is coming to India soon... so we will see...

But it is awfully close between them...

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
29 October, 2016 18:33
Both also bowl a bit of off spin...that's another similarity...

Akbar
Akbar
30 October, 2016 23:19
I think Kohli's better days in Tests are ahead of him. He has got a taste of double hundreds, I expect him to score at least one during England series and many more during his career.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
11 February, 2017 22:53
Quote:
Akbar
I think Kohli's better days in Tests are ahead of him. He has got a taste of double hundreds, I expect him to score at least one during England series and many more during his career.

Well predicted... Jahanpannah....smiling smiley

Akbar
Akbar
12 February, 2017 03:43
Quote:
Birbal
Quote:
Akbar
I think Kohli's better days in Tests are ahead of him. He has got a taste of double hundreds, I expect him to score at least one during England series and many more during his career.

Well predicted... Jahanpannah....smiling smiley
Wow! Can't believe I predicted this.

Cheers.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
09 January, 2019 02:44
Quote:
Birbal
Smith is as behind Virat in limited overs format as Virat is behind him in Tests...but I think Virat can improve as a Test batsman...more than Smith can as an ODI/T20I guy... so overall Virat is my pick...

Was on the money... Virat has snuck up on Smith in Tests... Smith has not been able to improve that much in ODIs/T20is... Virat now 50/50/50 in all three formats...Smith 60/40/20....

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
09 January, 2019 02:48
Quote:
Birbal
Williamson v. Root..Both middle order guys... and I think Root will soon be captain too...
Both average 50 ish... Williamson just got found out by Ashwin in India... Root is coming to India soon... so we will see...

But it is awfully close between them...

Root did much better than Williamson with bat IN India...but as captains both struggled...
Not much to choose between them...is there?

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
09 January, 2019 02:49
New one....Ravindra Jadeja v. Shakib al Hassan

Akbar
Akbar
10 January, 2019 21:24
Has to be Shakib. I don't want to split hairs but Shakib has performed consistently home and away.
Jadeja is at another level in bowling in home conditions but apart from that Shakib is better in everything.

MESSAGES->author
Birbal
10 January, 2019 23:04
Quote:
Akbar
Has to be Shakib. I don't want to split hairs but Shakib has performed consistently home and away.
Jadeja is at another level in bowling in home conditions but apart from that Shakib is better in everything.

Agree right now Shakib is better all rounder... but if given the chance I think Jaddu can match him...

both can aim to be 40 odd batting and 20 odd bowling average... nobody else in that league...

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