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Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Grockle 16 April, 2017 15:15
Seems it was a con'ciderabell' cockup all in all.

Though I suppose we ought to say well batted Alistair Cook who had something to do with it as well if we give the other side any credit for turning up and playing at all.

(Doubt its going to happen but I suppose its worth a try)

Has Rodders posted yet?


Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Nailsea_Fizz 16 April, 2017 15:33
Too busy throwing his toys out of the pram already. :-) Relegation bound already I tell thee.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
chunkyinargyll 16 April, 2017 15:43
Warwickshire will almost certainly end up on just 3 points after 2 completed games- which is totally abject #always someone worse off than yourself (unless you're Warwicks

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
AG on apple 16 April, 2017 15:51
I'm sure the Captain won't have made his decision without consulting others, Grockle. And we can be certain that Essex also wanted to bat and it's perfectly possible that their Captain (whoever it is) may have consulted the erstwhile England leader on the same.

From what I heard there was still some unevenness today.

Either way, let's not pretend that we've lost because of either the pitch or the call we made at the toss. We've lost because we batted like absolute clueless mugs vs leg-theory bowling in our second innings and in a generally feckless manner in our first.

As per comments on here, only Davies and VDM were actively bowled out by good deliveries (vs throwing their wickets away) in the first innings. Then a whole bunch of guys flapped at short stuff from Wagner and hit it down fielder's throats in the second.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You cannot win a CC without playing disciplined and, at times, attritional cricket at at least some points of the season. We are certainly capable of disciplined performances in the field at times. Batting? In my lifetime we've never really done it often enough and this was a most unpromising start if we are going to reverse that trend in 2017.

Mr Rogers? A ton of work ahead of you, sir, to inculcate the kind of discipline that you showed for much of your career with the bat.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2017 15:54 by AG on apple.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
rodders 16 April, 2017 16:19
Why are you interested if I have posted or not Grockle as you seldom consider my opinion worth very much anyway - though come to think of it in your case that applies to the vast majority of posters does it not ?
Utter rubbish from our batsmen but all credit to the bowlers. I fear we are not strong enough with the willow and will be mid table at best - too many past its and too many not quite made its IMO ! Maybe in a few years time....................!

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
mikeindex 16 April, 2017 16:49
A distinctly disappointing three days on balance. What sounds like a highly impressive performance in the field in Essex's first innings (unfortunately I wasn't able to see the best bit in person) squandered by some pretty horrible shot selection and/or execution, abetted by the pitch's (possibly unexpected) placidifying, supposing for the moment that that is in fact a word.

Anthony Gibson reckoned it played pretty much like the Lancashire game last year when Marcus and Chris played out time on the last day (yes, I confess I was back home on the radio by the time the winning hit was made - blame my computer battery), and I tend to agree. I certainly saw only slow and unthreatening turn today whereas a couple from Harmer on the first day turned and bounced quite strikingly. This is, however, no excuse for Somerset's defeat which was down to bad batting.

It's always easy to accuse a batsman who gets out playing an attacking shot of irresponsibility (concealing from ourselves that with slightly better timing we'd have been praising him for a magnificently struck four or six) - but I'm afraid yesterday's efforts against Wagner were woeful, not least in their repetitiveness. Wagner's left-arm angle and consistency in getting the ball up to between rib and shoulder height do make him extremely difficult for a right-hand batsman (particularly one with an Overton-sized frame) either to play or to avoid - compare Jamie O's short balls which usually arrive at or above head height and so are very easy to duck - but seeing Roley, Lewis, JO and, after a worthy but still unfulfilled knock, CO, perish in turn couldn't but remind me of playing Lemmings on my computer of bygone years. JO in particular has undeniable talent as a batsman and no clue whatsoever how to play the short one - his one option seems to be a vague sort of muscle-rippling front-foot cross between a tennis forehand and a fly-swat.

A few net sessions for all the batsmen with Craig and/or Jamie pinging them in from round the wicket might be a useful preparation for the return Essex game, supposing Wagner will still be with them.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Grockle 16 April, 2017 16:58
Just wondered whether you'd got on the keyboard to comment on the cockup sir as you are not backward at coming forward on days like this

I think I disagree with mostly with the unbalanced 'minority' actually Rodders.

It's just that if you only come on when there are bad days you only see people like you posting and no others so you think you are the majority.

Having said that I don't think I'm disagreeing with you today and if there are more days like today you may be on quite a lot.

Are the 'past its' going to be your theme for this year? Who are the 'not quite made its'?

Anyway a stronger Lancashire next.


Re: And so it all starts with Essex
rodders 16 April, 2017 17:22
Actually Grockle that is not true - you disagree with most posters most of the time and AG all of the time but that is your right and fair enough.
I accept that I ( and my fellow poster CP ) are most definitely half empty glass supporters but if you ever reach the age of 74 and have supported Somerset for 64 years you might well be in the same category. Regardless of leaders, player signings, captains and grounds men we have failed to win the ultimate prize even once and given our financial success and numerous support that does take some accepting with a smile. Why is it - who knows but there has to be something wrong somewhere. Perhaps Will Carling had it right.............

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Wickham 16 April, 2017 17:23
AG; you said - presumably, in response to my comment from yesterday evening - that "I don't really follow the 'track flattening out,' fears". But I have seen virtually every ball and it was pretty obvious to me towards the end of yesterday's play that the wicket was beginning to die, which is why I made my comment. That concern was borne out by events. Somerset bowled worthily today, but they couldn't conjure much penetration - and the Essex batsmen played very well.

I have already commented on our batting - mikeindex has since put it better than I did. Incidentally, by all accounts the ball to which Trescothick was given LBW pitched outside the leg stump (and so he should, of course, have been given not-out).

We are only one match into the season and I am far from down-hearted.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
AG on apple 16 April, 2017 17:49
To cap an awful day the seconds contrived an absolute humiliation - a 9 wicket defeat by Devon in which only Bess, Bartlett and one other made it into double figures. Ugh.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Grockle 16 April, 2017 18:09
Well I'm not going to argue with you Rodders because you are obviously right and I have never ever agreed with AG..... ever period full stop and all that. It's a flaming miracle I can talk to anyone at the ground I disagree with them all so much.

I'm afraid I don't care how long you've been watching this lot. LoL (who I of course disagree with regularly) has been watching as long and seems to have managed to maintain a level of positivity and critical balance along with many others. I've spent over 20 years chatting to Tractor and this pain of massive loss doesn't seem to have done his enthusiasm any harm at all. Long may that continue.

It isn't what you see it's how you see it and where you start from. When I reach 74 I pray I still enjoy watching cricket and can see a cock up for a cock up and a decent performance for more than mediocre. If Somerset win the CC then whooppee. If they don't then each game is a new opportunity for better and there's always tomorrow to be more than just miserable about.

Looking to a future that may be better is a hell of a lot more fun than dwelling in a past you can't change.

I thought you were thawing a bit last year and emerging from your slough of despond....maybe I was too optimistic.

Ahh well on to Friday.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2017 18:11 by Grockle.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Loyal of Lhasa 16 April, 2017 19:01
I'm glad you made that point in your most recent post, Grockle. I am actually the same age as Rodders but remain cheerful and optimistic about our team, but I suspect that that has much more to do with our respective temperaments than with the doings or non-doings of Somerset's cricketers.

And I expect you to disagree with me about that!


Seventy-one Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2017 22:04 by Loyal of Lhasa.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Wickham 16 April, 2017 19:17
Happy birthday for yesterday, LoL. I hope that your cake was as good as those which Bagpuss kindly provided on the first day and for her birthday yesterday. It was Tony in the P of D who provided homemade biscuits today. This is rapidly becoming a tradition of which I heartily approve.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Mike TA1 16 April, 2017 19:21
Day three photos.

A disappointing end to the match but not unexpected after the bad batting yesterday.

The last two previous days the headline was Cook, Cook when there were others playing in the match, today he deserve the headline with his name in it.

He didn't have it all his own way, there were several shouts for lbw, none given.
Craig Overton thought he had Alastair Cook out with this shout for lbw.

AC did show Somerset batsmen how to bat, 4 runs for him with this shot.

I am not sure what happened in this photo, all eyes are on the fielder even Alastair Cook look interested, he wasn't out.

Another big appeal for lbw turned down against AC off the bowling of Roelof van der Merwe.
Only those watching directly inline could say how close these appeals were.

One of the rare good moments for Somerset today was when Jamie Overton had Nick Browne caught by Steve Davies.

Tom Westley gave AC support with a good 50 plus runs, this four got fifty up on the scoreboard.

The only way is up for Somerset.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
old boy! 16 April, 2017 19:36
I suppose we are consistent. Every year we seem to start badly - now lets hope it continues because we have consistently improved later each season!
I have to say that there is a lot, an awful lot of effort needed by the coaches to show the batters how to bat. And I really don't know where it leaves the new skipper if he fails again in the next match. His job surely is about being confident in his workplace and we need to hope that he doesn't lose his confidence this early in the season.
Old Boy!

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
JuliaW 16 April, 2017 19:42
Happy birthday for yesterday, LoL. I hope that your cake was as good as those which Bagpuss kindly provided on the first day and for her birthday yesterday. It was Tony in the P of D who provided homemade biscuits today. This is rapidly becoming a tradition of which I heartily approve.

Indeed the supply of cakes and biscuits is a splendid thing which is to be much encouraged!

With regards to the game it was a disappointing performance, there is no getting away from that, with yesterday's batting performance being the undoubted low point.

I'm off to Old Trafford on Friday with the expectation that the team will pull their socks up and put in an improved performance up north!

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Clarence Parker 16 April, 2017 19:50
Hello Rodders, it is good to hear from you once more, and I consider your posting of 17:19 to be absolutely spot on.

On the showing in this match, if we end up mid table at the end of the season, we will have done well. Our batting is simply not strong or consistent enough.

I was ashamed at how we batted in both innings, especially yesterday and frankly I cannot see a ready - made solution anywhere in the offing. Our present position has been brought about by our successive DoC's failures to strengthen the batting over a number of years. For too long they have said - we have got Trescothick (for as long as he wants to play), Hildreth, Trego and a bunch of "promising" youngsters in the Second XI. As you said Rodders, we are getting dangerously close to the point where we have "too many past it and too many not quite made it."

How many "promising youngsters" actually go on to become seasoned professional cricketers? Only a small minority, so why put all one's misguided faith in the young players who have been hammered by Devon in a Second XI match today? If they can't perform consistently at Second Team level, then what is their future?

Good luck to Tom Abell, a very talented batsman at school level but (ignoring the current match) he did poorly last season. Opposition captains and bowlers have exploited his weaknesses and he is struggling. Professional county cricket is a tough environment, and we all, I am sure, hope he can battle his way through. It will involve a lot of discipline, dedication and hard work on his part.

He though must not be singled out. I have been dismayed and disgusted by our team's batting in this match. It is interesting, and for this site uncommon, for all the contributors who witnessed it at first hand to be of one mind as to the total inadequacies of it all.

Don't let me read comments from Maynard, Kerr or anyone else to the effect that "we can take a lot of positives out of this match", because nobody can. We move on to Lancashire with not many options available to chose from. I am no ardent fan of Jamie Overton and said at the start of the match that Tim Groenewald would have been a better selection on that pitch.

Anyway, what's done is done, but I sadly do not have the confidence that we will never bat like that again. It's in our DNA I feel, and reminiscent of the inept batting that we used to witness in the Botham, Richards and Garner era when other counties' players would laugh at the way we played to finish up bottom and near to bottom in the CC with such a talented group of 'star' players. We do not have any 'star' players now of course, but we still adopt the same laissez - faire attitude far too often.

It's going to be a long season Rodders with not a lot to shout about. If a side gets into a bad run, then psychologically it can be difficult to pull out of it.

But then I think that we both know that.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Grockle 16 April, 2017 20:35
Good luck with the misery Clarence. Hope that expressing it gives you release.

How are you going to cope IF the non stars of Somerset actually get into a run this season under their inadequate captain - you put him down soooo nicely.

My God they are almost doing you and Rodders a medical service.

But never mind, you can always harp back to three players who are nearly in their 70's as well for remedial misery if you find any present day success too hard to take.

It is priceless how hard you work at being miserable about everything to do with the county you profess to want to do well.


Re: And so it all starts with Essex
sandhills 16 April, 2017 21:25
Clarence you are a yawn. Try writing something else.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Scrumper 16 April, 2017 21:33
AG on apple
To cap an awful day the seconds contrived an absolute humiliation - a 9 wicket defeat by Devon in which only Bess, Bartlett and one other made it into double figures. Ugh.

Played at Sidmouth I see. I played there once, the blighters wanted £80 for teas! By coincidence today I found out that my great uncle once removed married a girl from Sidmouth in 1921, ancestry free weekend has kept in my bunker.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Clarence Parker 16 April, 2017 21:44
Do you really expect me to respond to such sad bilge, Grockle?

I wouldn't do you the pleasure.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Bagpuss 16 April, 2017 21:49
Warwickshire have gone the other way - recruitment rather than development. Before Sam Hain the last player to come through their academy to current first team squad was Chris Woakes, who made his debut 10 years ago.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Grockle 17 April, 2017 02:56
But isn't that a response CP? I'd get more pleasure from silence I have to say.

Unless there is something worthwhile to post rather than the 'bilge' as you aptly define it. I'd take the 'g" out myself but what do I know? I quite like the game and the county and don't wallow so much in the bad days when they haven't become a trend yet.

Supporters New Season Optimism I suppose not yet beaten down by constant defeat some 3 days into a season.

Hey ho!! Sorry to say thst I hope the next game does not give you the same opportunity for such miserable release though.

I do hope any decent play might give you some light to move towards from under that black cloud of dark expectations you seem to allow to float over your summer every year. It must be hard for you to watch year after year getting heavier and heavier.

Maybe there is respite just up ahead. We'll have to wait and see.


Re: And so it all starts with Essex
RadstockRob 17 April, 2017 05:05
Be like me Clarence be selective with which posts and posters you read.


Re: And so it all starts with Essex
wsm fan 17 April, 2017 07:20
I rarely post anymore as the balance on this site is ridiculous.
Some manage to watch the play. Many offer in depth analysis from looking at a scoreboard only on a computer screen from 100s of miles away.
I appreciate several of you have been watching for 60/70/80 years so know far more than me but still!

Somerset supporters should "support"
As a supporter it is perfectly acceptable to be positive about your team & maybe even bias towards it.
Equally we all have the right to an opinion but its rarely helpful just battering the whole team and management.

I can guarantee you the bowlers and captain were trying 100% yesterday, they dont lose games on purpose. And they will be hurting 10 times more today than we are.

I'm not saying we are perfect, our 2nd innings batting was less than great. But its 1 match.
We came 2nd last year. Losing Chris was big but he is upstairs and for me on paper we are stronger. SD at 5 will make a huge difference. Our 3 young seamers all have an extra years experience.
As for Tom just leave the guy alone.
Yes he has been made captain too early and yes it may well effect his batting.
But rather than moan give me the alternative?

Tres has done it (badly most on here say)
Dean only here 2.5 months.
Hildy wont/cant/doesnt want it?
S Davies -brand new/quiet - but yes maybe?
Trego- popular guy but captain?
Jim- not in our top 8 batting options
Jack- maybe?
Seamers- liable rotation, injury, lions?

My point being good on him for taking it on. He must know its a bit early, and despite best efforts bound to effect him. For me we almost need to thank him for helping the club out, if you disagree then please offer a sensible alternative option not just slate a 23yr old who has captained in 1 first class match for 3 days.
Its up to us & club to give him every support.
He is the nicest and politest player i have ever met (says hello to all) and clearly a bright guy, lets back him.

I saw all 3 days of the Essex match & am heading up 7am Friday for the first 3 days of the Lancashire match.
I'll be supporting all 11 from ball 1 win lose or draw.
Many just really dont realise how lucky we are. We have a great team, top bunch of players & a fantastically run club with arguably the nicest home venue in the country to watch our cricket.
Try supporting Glos, Leics, Derby if you arent happy with what Somerset offer.

Oh and to stoke the fire of many who like speculating Mr Bayliss was spotted on the ground yesterday, not seen it reported anywhere else.
Clearly he wasnt looking at any of our players though being we are relegation fodder.....

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Sloop John B 17 April, 2017 07:33
A welcome post wsm fan. Says what I think about our club and our trolls. I also have almost stopped tweeting because of the vitriol some bring.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Nailsea_Fizz 17 April, 2017 07:54
Nice post WSM and I particularly agree with your point re balance. I do find it hard to understand how anyone can get dismayed, disgusted and ashamed over an innings of cricket.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
AG on apple 17 April, 2017 08:49
Bayliss possibly not a great mystery - Cook, A N.

If we are being optimistic maybe he came, specifically, to not just check on ANC but to see how Jack bowled to him?

Re: Tom Abell, WSM, I don't really think that people are 'on his back.' I do think that it's a worrying sign that he has already mentioned that 'I am trying to separarte my batting from my captaincy.'

This is worrisome, I think, because it implies that he thinks one may be affecting the other.

We do not know, WSM, whether there were other 'realistic options.' Tom might, genuinely, have been picked because he is seen as outstanding captaincy material.

If he was picked 'because there was nobody else as an option,' then I'm afraid that's rather an indictment of both a) the club's planning and b) our other players.

Personally I cannot see why Pete could not have done the job. James Hildreth did a perfectly good job before and the story, at the time, was that he didn't want to only be the In-field Captain when somebody else (Tres) was still the overall captain. That situation no longer obtains.

Regardless, I have always been with Richie Bensud on this one...pick your best XI then find somebody to Captain it. The last thing any team needs is a situation where somebody gets picked because they are Captain. If Tom does't find form over the first quarter of the season, I highly doubt it would do him any good (nor the team) if we keep picking him regardless of form.

So the club will need a Back-up plan in which case, WSM, let's doubly hope that Tom was not picked 'because there was no alternative.'

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Bagpuss 17 April, 2017 09:38
I suspect were Tom to seek the advice of Alastair Cook he would tell him the important thing is to separate his captaincy from his batting. He should not be thinking about batting when the opposition is 8 down; nor should he be worrying about how those last 2 wickets added an annoying 50 runs as he comes out to bat. Clear thought required for each job.

Re: And so it all starts with Essex
Loyal of Lhasa 17 April, 2017 10:15
What an excellent and reassuring post by wsm fan. Many thanks for that. In response to his sentence:

I appreciate several of you have been watching for 60/70/80 years so know far more than me but still!

I would suggest that the length of one's cricket-watching experience may not hugely increase one's knowledge of the technicalities of the game but may bring a greater sense of perspective. Following yesterday's exchanges about the frustrations of supporting our mercurial team, I started to think that were I to find myself on my deathbed (which could be as early as later today for all I know) and granted a few minutes of reflection on my life, during whose course Somerset had still not won the County Championship, I would not die with any great sense of regret but with huge gratitude for all the pleasure watching and supporting the side has given me. Perhaps I might have hoped that one of my offspring had played for England, gained a PhD from Harvard or conducted a symphony orchestra at the Albert Hall; the fact that none of these things had happened would in no way lessen my thankfulness for all the happiness that child had brought me.


Seventy-one Seasons a Somerset Supporter

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