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FAKE2020 CC1The Big One? Yorkshire @ Headingley
Discussion started by Grockles.com , 15 June, 2020 15:05
FAKE2020 CC1The Big One? Yorkshire @ Headingley
Grockles.com 15 June, 2020 15:05
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/06/2020 14:24 by Grockle.

FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Grockle 11 June, 2020 12:10
The 10th game of the FAKE2020 Championship season is away to Yorkshire at Headingley.

We are some 18 points ahead of them on the table and a significant number beyond Essex in 3rd (113 I believe) so THIS could be the game that swings it one way or the other.

At the moment EVERYONE is fit. Questions? Suggestions?

I'll run through to the game and see what comes up if anything later today and look to start this one over the weekend probably.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2020 12:10 by Grockle.

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 11 June, 2020 13:04
Cove definitely in for Roelof with Azhar a second spinning option if required to bowl a few overs.
Has Davies scored enough runs lately to prevent Banton having an outing??

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 11 June, 2020 13:05
Have you got the latest Batting averages Grockle

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 11 June, 2020 14:56
I can almost hear the words "From the River End, Jack Leach"

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 11 June, 2020 15:31
Did you mean the Truman or Emerald end

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 11 June, 2020 19:40
It's been a long time Nelliec. Which one is the Kirkstall Lane End and the Football Stand End?

Can we have Ben Stokes?

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 11 June, 2020 20:24
I wish I knew.It would be a good quiz question to name all the old names and their equivalent nowadays

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 11 June, 2020 20:30
Maybe it still is officially the Kirkstall Lane end An end and a stand are probably different in most cases

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 12 June, 2020 10:58
What are people's views on selecting Tom Banton? Farmer, you are a man of wisdom...

He played the first match and didn't do much with the bat. Since then the batsmen have all come good, the competition for places keeping Carberry and Kervezee away.

The consensus at the start of the season was for Davies to keep the gloves.

My view is that he should come back for the following game (Warwickshire) at the latest, possibly letting Davies open to see if that 'improves' his average. Is it worth doing this now and who would we drop?

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 12 June, 2020 11:56
If Cove and Banton come in you would probably have to drop Roelof or Brooke’s for Cove.and Davies or Byrom for Banton



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2020 11:57 by nelliec.

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Farmer White 12 June, 2020 12:02
Enough wisdom Somerset La La La to spend my life supporting Somerset ...

Selection it seems is a tough old job with a winning team and others pushing for places.

For what it is worth, in four-day cricket my selection starts with Davies. He is the best keeper. Catches win matches and a top keeper keeps batsmen honest. I always go back to the question someone put to me at a match when Davies' place was under scrutiny: "If you were Jack Leach who would you want behind the stumps?" So, to my mind, Davies keeps. As to his batting, he has not set the world afire in the Fantasy CC and he didn't in the 2019 CC. However, when I was putting my 2019 reports together for my book I was struck by the number of times Davies was the glue who batted through with the tail and scored useful 30s or thereabouts which often turned a headache score into a manageable one. He gets in on his keeping alone and, in the real game, often achieves more with the bat than is immediately obvious. I don't have easy access to the fantasy facts so can't say to what extent his fantasy work with the bat reflects his 2019 contribution but his runs are a bonus, his keeping is essential.

As to Banton, tough though it is, I would stick with the batting formula that has worked, with the notable exception of the Essex math, this far unless someone starts to flag, in which case Banton would have to be thought hard about alongside Kervezee and Carberry.

Leach, assuming he is fit, in for VDM is fairly straightforward I think much as I like VDM's combativeness.

The toughest choice is whether or not to keep Bess. Given the three seamers plus Abell formula has worked well thus far, I would, especially as we are getting deeper into the season, pitches may start to develop some turn and Yorkshire topped 500 at Headingley in last year's match. And a spinner turning it in each direction adds to the variety and the questions that are asked of the batsmen

If Bess is retained that creates another tough choice. Stick with the three successful seamers from the last match or drop one for Craig O? Gregory has to play, so that leaves two from Jamie O, Craig O and Brooks. I would want Jamie's pace and Craig's accuracy and lift at Headingley so it is Brooks that goes. Perhaps the toughest decision of the lot because, although I have always worried about his consistency in the real game, he has performed consistently well in the fantasy game. I just think the two Overtons and Gregory are the best mix for Headingley.

Thus speaketh the wisdom of the Farmer SLLL. You should though be aware, my wisdom has an awful habit of metamorphosing into the sort of farce that Brian Rix would have been proud of; or, as my old English teacher would have insisted I put it: of which Brian Rix would have been proud.

Farmer

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 12 June, 2020 14:11
There is a logic to sticking with the batting formula that has worked, especially in such an important game. If Somerset win, then we can afford to make a few tweaks for the run-in. And if we do as we did against Yorkshire last year then some changes will be necessary anyway.

I will make a case for the inclusion of Banton against Warwickshire on his batting merits alone.

One thing that has struck me in the fantasy game, is that the first innings of a 'star' player (e.g. Carberry, Hildreth, Gregory, Ali, Byrom, Kervezee, vdM) or changing the batting order for someone underperforming (Bartlett, Abell) can result in them making a big score. Even Cove made a lot of runs the first time he came back from injury.

Therefore, Davies may benefit from being opener, a position he held for about 4 matches at the end of last season. That decision can wait for me until we see what happens against Yorkshire.

I also want to play just 4 main bowlers at some point, which could be another route in for Banton.

The computer likes to reward the rotation of some bowlers as well and I don't believe it was a coincidence that Gregory and Jove mopped up the wickets last time, after their rest. It was your suggestion to originally rest Gregory which worked brilliantly.

Leach is taking about 6 wickets a game and for that reason we don't really need an extra spinner. Cove should come back strongly and Brooks has proved himself to be consistent throughout the fantasy competition. A break may do Bess good, he has played in all but one match so far

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 12 June, 2020 14:13
My team:

Ali, Byrom, Bartlett, Hildreth, Abell, Davies, Gregory, Cove, Brooks, Jove, Leach

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Farmer White 12 June, 2020 14:26
SLLL

I wouldn't argue too strongly in a selection meeting against a straight Bess/Brooks swap for the reasons you give, particularly giving Bess a break if that is how the computer operates, although I would probably stick with Bess because I like the control and pressure two good spinners operating in tandem can bring.

As to Davies opening, he started well last year - a century against Warks from memory, but faded. Opening the batting and keeping at the skill level he does with all the concentration that must involve is a very big ask. I would retain his opening for emergencies only I think. I wouldn't want it to undermine his keeping - if the computer is that sophisticated.

Farmer

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 12 June, 2020 14:29
The computer also does not take into consideration having to rotate players to keep others happy so they don’t feel the need to swap clubs

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 12 June, 2020 15:19
My mindset is playing against lines of code and a database, I wouldn’t select the same side in reality (or want to make the decision).

Some of the discussions though are really absorbing in these cricketless times, such as whether to play 2 spinners, when to declare and whether to enforce the follow-on. Hopefully we won’t lose our fantasy players to other counties, that’s another dimension I suppose.

There is an interesting fantasy competition for the Guardian that normally runs in parallel with the championship. It is based on selecting a team each week that scores points according to actual performance. I did ok last season based on my large Somerset cohort, but fell flat because of my lack of knowledge on second division players.

But thanks as ever to Grockle for having the idea and going with this in the first place. Cricket Captain seems quite realistic, particularly fun when playing with a few others

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Grockle 13 June, 2020 11:57
Lots of conversation since Thursday. Sorry - reports time in Bermuda!!

Stats


Azhar Ali Bat 39.64 SR 41.6% Bowl 46W 43.02 Econ 3.71

Tom Banton 11.2 (hasn't batted a lot) 41.5%

And
Mike Carberry 41.18 SR 50.9% Remember Carberry is an offspinner 17W @ 36.59 Econ 4.11

Also
Alexie Kervezee 30.33 SR 61.4% with 8 wickets @47.25 Econ 3.53

Just to cover all the bases

Has anyone heard of 'K Barrie' or 'J Ramshaw' - they have just been promoted from the 'youth programme' into the Somerset first team squad. Do they exist in the real world?



(Sm72)

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Grockle 13 June, 2020 12:11
Here are the match conditions

http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/59/59_0_1592046601.jpg



(Sm72)

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Grockle 13 June, 2020 12:15
Who are the team definites?

1 Ali?
2 Eddie? Banton? Carberry? Davies?
3 Bartlett
4 Hildreth? (hasn't been doing particularly well recently)
5 Abell
6 Davies? Banton?
7 Gregory
8 Bess
9 Cove
10 Brooks? Jove? Davey?
11 as above

For a side doing very well there are a few questions to ask. Jack Leach is a definite anyway.



(Sm72)

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 13 June, 2020 13:02
Bouncy track so Jove,Cove and Gregory should definitely play.Assuming Bess also plays I would play Banton as the extra batsman with Tom and Azhar providing alternative bowling options.A draw wouldn’t be the worst result

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Grockle 13 June, 2020 14:18
Banton where? Number 7?



(Sm72)

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 13 June, 2020 14:51
I would personally.Farmer might disagree and prefer another bowler

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Grockle 13 June, 2020 15:56
Sorry guys. No Leach. Out for at least another 3 weeks.

So presently

Ali, Byrom, Bartlett, Hildreth, Abell, Davies, Banton, Gregory, Bess, Overton C, Overton J

Seems to be the plan?



(Sm72)

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Farmer White 13 June, 2020 16:33
Nelliec

I always think five bowlers is best and with Gregory and Abell in the side and the strength of our lower order batting we should be able to manage it. The pitch is due to be 'good'. Last year Yorkshire topped 500 on it. We may need to bowl a lot of overs and there are still four matches to come so we don't want to find ourselves having to overbowl anyone. With Leach and Bess in the side that should not be necessary. Looking at Grockle's list, with good bounce too I would stick with my original thought of Jamie O ahead of Brooks.

As to Banton I take the view that players currently holding a place in the side should retain that place until it is clear they shouldn't and I don't think that applies to Davies or any of the top five batsmen. Hildreth has had a bit of a lean time of late but he had a very powerful start to the season and he has proven pedigree. He is very reliable at first slip too. I wouldn't be moving him out just yet. If at some point Banton forces his way in then, as with the others, he should keep the place he gets unless it becomes clear he shouldn't.

All that of course is based on an underpinning theory of selection. Namely that:

Your best side has to be as balanced as possible in terms of bating, bowling and attacking fielding positions, and Gregory, Abell, the fielding of most of our bowlers and their lower order batting provide an excellent opportunity to put out a very balanced side.

Bowling should be as varied as possible and having Abell in the side makes it possible to have two spinners turning the ball different ways and whatever combination of pace fits the situation.

You should always play your best keeper in four-day cricket, especially if you have two class spinners. Maximum security behind the stumps raises bowler morale and cannot help opposition batsmen's morale.

Subject to the need to rotate bowlers, stability in a side, provided it is producing performance over time, enhances the way a team works and provides a secure setting for any new player who is needed to come in.


It is the last two that are keeping Banton out, but, should he come in at some point the last one will keep him in if he performs.

So, that is where I come from on selection and it is where anything I suggest comes from.

Other selection theories are available which is what makes selection such an endless, and ultimately unresolvable, point of discussion. And which helps make this fantasy cricket good fun when there is no real cricket to watch. And so I add my thanks to Grockle for thinking this up, but above all for keeping it going. Providing he promises he will not get to the end of match 12 or 13 and then lose the will ...

Farmer

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Farmer White 13 June, 2020 16:46
Ah! Hadn't seen Grockle's post when I posted mine. However, I would stick to the principle in my post and simply bring in Rolef VDM for Leach. Bess is an attacking spinner and not always the most economical. Roleof can bowl a tight line and restrict scoring if needed.

Farmer

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 13 June, 2020 17:49
I think it comes down to Maharaj if he’s playing.My theory was that the tail just rolled over last year,but I suppose RVDM as he showed against Harmer last year that he could take Maharaj on as well.As long as we don’t win the Toss and bowl again

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Somerset LaLaLa 13 June, 2020 20:40
Quote:
Grockle
Sorry guys. No Leach. Out for at least another 3 weeks.

Oh Grockle.

With no Leach we can't risk just 4 main bowlers and need Bess plus vdM. Cove should also play.

I'm not sure whether Farmer agrees with my logic, but we end up with the same 5: Gregory, vdM, Bess, Cove and Jove.

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
nelliec 13 June, 2020 21:56
Agree

Re: FAKE2020 CC1 Yorkshire and the fate of the Fantasy?
Farmer White 13 June, 2020 23:11
SLLL

I think we should always have five main bowlers, except just possibly on an April ultra-greentop (George Bartlett was a seventh batsman in the first match of 2019 v Kent and without his knock in the second innings we might well not have got over the line). And with Abell in the side we can afford the variety of a second spinner if we have one that fits the bill. I suggested VDM ahead of Brooks because, although he is not in Leach's league as a slow left arm spinner, he has taken wickets for us in red ball cricket, but crucially because he can bowl a tight line and give Abell some control if needed. To that extent I suspect our logic may be similar.

On the toss I am with Nelliec. I do not want to re-live last year. Even in fantasy!

Farmer

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