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BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
Discussion started by Grizzers , 07 August, 2020 23:19
BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
Grizzers 07 August, 2020 23:19
Lots of debate regarding which of Jack or Dom should be in the England Test team.

Which makes me wonder who we would pick if both were currently fully fit and available ?

I assume Jack would remain our first choice.

(In which case why isn’t he for England ?).


Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
AGod 08 August, 2020 07:02
His name is the GREAT Matthew Jack Leach.

Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
AGod 08 August, 2020 07:10
p.s. England never really have a clue... they're always bedevilled by an obsession with batting - hence Dom, not Leachy and Jos Buttler behind the stumps even though his glovework to spinners is very clearly sub-par...

I mean, the GULF between Rizwan and Buttler is truly immense...... if England lose this match, you really can very easily pin it on Rizwan vs Jos, I'm afraid. The former flawless, the latter having had a nightmare.

Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
Grockle 08 August, 2020 07:33
The first question begs the second


Usually it is to bat in the tail and not go for runs while the seam attack has a rest. It is rarely to take wickets hence no need for a keeper who can handle spin or practices to do so.

Anyone think the Pakistani spinners are playing on that same basis? Even Warne thinks Bess is bowling to 'raise his confidence' and then is as surprised as Buttler when he has the batsman in trouble.

It's been this way since Swann and even he took years before they took him seriously and used him as a weapon.

Mushtaq Ahmed came on to take wickets and did because the side and the opposition knew he intended to try. THAT is the way you build CONFIDENCE in your spinners. Treat them as a weapon to use to win the game. Not as some 'add on' you turn to while you rest and regroup and replan how to win.

If England can't do that then send ours home and let us use them properly


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2020 12:57 by Grockle.

Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
AGod 08 August, 2020 09:03
Quite right, Grockle.

A combination of the way Dom is being used and Jos's performance behind the timbers is most unlikely to be providing a fillip to Dom's confidence. At the same time - and in a not unconnected event, Dom has generally bowled too short in this second innings.

Of course, it's not Jos's fault that he's clumsy vs spin as it's not his fault that:

a) There are so few spinners in county cricket


b) He barely plays county cricket anyway.

He'll probably manage to hang on to this place as the selectors will surmise that "it probably won't turn much in Hedge End anyway."

But the idea of taking Jos, as keeper, to India this winter (should the tour materialise) would be patently absurd..... not that that would necessarily stop England doing it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2020 09:59 by AGod.

Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
Bagpuss 08 August, 2020 12:49
A respected pundit - I forget who - said during the Ireland ODI series that England's best current spinner was Adil Rashid and he should return to the Test team.

I'm not getting into a discussion re the correctness of this statement but even starting from the assumption that Adil is England's best spinner, if he was parachuted into the Test team his success would be doubtful because of the change in captain and their attitude to their spinner. Eoin Morgan treats Rashid as his secret weapon and will even bowl him right up to the death overs, whilst Root uses the traditional gin and tonic approach to giving his spinners overs - one before lunch, two before tea.

Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
Grockle 08 August, 2020 13:02
Spinners are on for Pakistan and have been causing trouble

There was a debate about whether Dom would bowl at all and even the commentators don't expect England to use spin - including on of the greatest spinners of all time.

Don't pick them then. Let Root bowl to change ends or vary with slow stuff for a couple of overs - why waste a professional specialist when you have little intention of using their specialism.

Either they don't classify them as good enough or they don't appreciate the skills they have.

The English first question seems to be the same as with keepers 'can he bat?'


Re: BWT/Championship cricket - who is our first choice spinner ?
AGod 08 August, 2020 13:11
Bagpuss - in fact I saw Joe Root's debut as a Captain in first-class cricket.

It produced perhaps the most humiliating loss ever suffered by any County ... as Yorks saw Middx successfully chase about 565 to win. That's not a mis-print.

Rashid was bowled extensively that day (unlike Liam Plunkett was was banished to the outfield in disgrace, never again to be seen that day, after only about 3 overs) , and was alone in giving Chris Rogers - who I think made about 290, any problems.

So.... I certainly wouldn't rule out that England might go that way... or parachute Mo back in.

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