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Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Jonathan Winsky 25 September, 2017 19:55
Maybe I didn’t make my points clearly when I used the same paragraph to mention the fact that there is some talk that Somerset may be deducted points due to the state of their pitch, and the fact there is hardly any possibility that Middlesex may be deducted points to a slow over rate. Our Twitter feed times Somerset’s innings as finishing at 4:38pm, by which time we would have needed to have bowled roughly 82 overs to have achieved a rate of 16 an over. However, we bowled 84.4 overs, so I am in the rare position of feeling certain that our over rate is positive.

However, as I have said, I don’t think the possibility of Somerset losing points is currently anything more than speculation or something that Middlesex would like to see happen. We will have to see how the pitch plays in the coming days.

It would make for an unexpected twist in the relegation battle if anyone is deducted points!

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Edgedtothekeeper 25 September, 2017 19:57
I must say after Ravi Patel not managing to do anything for the 2nd team this year suddenly becomes unplayable at Somerset? Having seen the history with Somerset preparing rubbish, I'd like to see Middlesex declare at say 4 or 5 down. Somerset will win the game but will still go down. Anything in the laws about doing that?

Then see how Somerset likes being stitched up.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll 25 September, 2017 19:59
Yes- There is something in the laws preventing that.

Ravi Patel leading wicket taker in the seconds this year.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll 25 September, 2017 20:12
Threat of pitch penalty-


No need to be too severe.

2 point penalty will do (to make up for crossbow which umpires promised to sort)

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
DeanSwift 25 September, 2017 20:36
The whining coming out of Middlesex is embarassing considering the utterly tedious wickets produced at Lords over the years.

Then, suddenly, out comes a green top as they beat Lancashire last week.

Middlesex hero Andrew Strauss wants counties to produce spinning conditions and develop talent.

I think eight of the Somerset dismissals were down to sweeps, reverse sweeps and a run out today - 236 doesn't suggest a bad track.

Compton nicking off to seam, again, and Eskinazi and Robson producing feeble defensive prods should be looked at rather than moaning at the pitch.

Would be an utter disgrace if Middlesex whinging gets in the way of things - the batting has been feeble all season.

Would be classic case of a bigger county getting their way if this comes to pass.

Middlesex should some some fight and get on with it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/09/2017 20:37 by DeanSwift.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
AGod 25 September, 2017 22:10
Let's face it, almost no English County pro has a scooby of how to play against a turning ball.

The only real difference between this track and that which was produced for the Middx vs Lancs game at Lord's is that the average county batsmen is a little bit less clueless on a track loaded in favour of the seamer than they are on a track loaded in favour of the spinner.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
adelaide 25 September, 2017 22:17

The bore draw pitches disappeared a few months ago. The Lancashire pitch turned out to be not too different from those for the Yorkshire and Warwickshire matches. Were these all at Middlesex's behest (if Middlesex has any influence at Lord's anyway)? Given that the Test pitch was also similar, I doubt it. It looks to me more like general pitch preparation problems. The dreaded fuserium?

The problem with the pitch was not so much the greenness, which wore off by mid afternoon, but the cracks and the dodgy bounce. Both teams felt this was the bigger problem, which was why they both wanted to bat, to most spectators' surprise.

I don't have a problem with pitches that assist spinners but when spinners of as yet unproven quality can get a bag load of wickets on day one I'm not sure that it is teaching them how to bowl on 99% of wickets. Yes, it might teach batsmen something but if you only see such a pitch once a season. In short, it's not that it gives assistance. It's the extreme nature of the assistance, coupled with home team familiarity, that leaves a bit of a taste in the mouth.

I'm not suggesting that this particular wicket is more extreme than (say) those produced towards the end of last season and they did not result in points deductions, so I very much doubt this will either. I have a feeling that the regulations are concerned more with danger than any concept of fairness, in which case a pitch could turn square from ball one and still not attract any sanction.

I agree with the gist of what you are saying, that without poor performances we would not be worrying about any of this. But if results pan out a certain way this week, we could end up with four teams with barely a cigarette paper between them and six within fifteen points or so. The difference between second (whoopee!) and seventh is pretty marginal in most seasons, so let's not run away with the idea that we have been absolutely shocking if, as I fear, seventh is where we end up.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Darren Gosling 25 September, 2017 22:22
It's not just Middx 'whining' though is it Dean.
Last year every county in Div 1 complained about Somerset preparing pitches all season.
None of them were sorry to see Somerset lose out on the title.
I'm happy for Somerset to win this match as long as Middx declare 5 wickets down...

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll 25 September, 2017 22:27
Bagpuss has made a good point on Grockles.

A wicket can be rated 'poor' (note it doesn't have to be dangerous) if there is excessive turn on days one and two AND is liable to disciplinary action (which must mean points deduction) if it is the second such pitch within 12 months.

Which is why Wayne Noon has said he will announce his decision after close of play tomorrow.

So, the first 'poor pitch' is like a private warning (for excessive turn) and the second could result in a points deduction.

Looks like this could be the second.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Leprechaun 25 September, 2017 22:47
Just as a bit of reassurance to everyone we were plus 5 at the end of the Somerset innings. We have a lot to concern ourselves in this match but overate is not one of them!

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
hantssabre 25 September, 2017 22:57
Stop preaching about pitches and concentrate on getting some better covers for Uxbridge then you probably wouldn't have been in this position and everybodies most hated County would have been

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Jonathan Winsky 25 September, 2017 23:19
Ravi Patel has spoken to Middlesex’s Audioboom page about today.

Until reading some posts on this thread, I was unaware of how unpopular Middlesex seem to be within Somerset's fanbase and allegedly elsewhere too. Previously, I assumed the two sets of supporters had a good relationship considering both counties have messageboards on Sportnetwork, and several players have represented both counties in the last 25 years. Had we not won last season’s County Championship, I would have liked Somerset to have won it instead. Indeed, when we tried to present Yorkshire from achieving their fourth batting point in last season’s final match, I was motivated by the fact that doing so would guarantee that the title would be won by either Middlesex or Somerset, although of course Yorkshire did get that point, which arguably helped us.

Although hardly any play took place in the Middlesex v Hampshire match at Uxbridge, that is a lot more than took place in the Derbyshire v Kent match at Chesterfield last week, which was completely rained-off. Derbyshire have vowed to not schedule any more matches there in September, and it would make sense if we do the same with Uxbridge. Of course, a lot of people would be happy if we vowed to stop scheduling matches at Uxbridge full stop!

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
freddie tittlemouse 25 September, 2017 23:19
Regardless of Arrowgate and Uxbridge Marshes do we actually deserve to stay up on merit? Far too much time has been spent patting ourselves on the backs for last season and imagining this season would take care of itself.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
AGod 26 September, 2017 06:27
No, Chunky, turn is not a criterion for a 'poor,' wicket.

Uneven bounce is and I heard that Middx moaned about that yesterday (though I saw little evidence of it).

It is probably for that reason that Noon is holding fire - to see how the track behaves today. In general, the wicket gets flatter as the game progresses so that should help you in the match but not viz a deduction.

The only way they can get us on turn alone is if this track is deemed 'below average,' and it is the second such track within 12 months... bear in mind we are MORE than 12 months ahead, now, of the final game of last season, so only this season's games would count.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll 26 September, 2017 07:01
Somerset's little county persecution complex (based on no evidence whatsoever) can be tiresome at times.

I've deliberately kept off their match thread, as I has a feeling emotions would run high.

If big counties are favoured, how come 'Arrowgate' wasn't sorted in our favour? (in which case Somerset would already be down).

Seems clear to me there is excessive turn if you open with Leach, and he looks more dangerous than Shane Warne (I was watching the live video feed)

We all knew Somerset would prepare a 'helpful' pitch, but there are limits.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll 26 September, 2017 07:20
I note it is the same wicket they used for a championship match a couple of weeks ago, and 'raked'

They have 'previous' with wickets (like a last minute change last year when they realised Tim Murtagh wasn't available)

If this is the second poor pitch this season (and no one made them deliberately use an old pitch) it seems the correct sanction is a points deduction.

After close of play could be most interesting.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
Edgedtothekeeper 26 September, 2017 07:48
The fact that Middlesex don't have any control over what pitches they are given at Lords kind of puts the argument about Lords to bed. Mick Hunt is paid by the MCC and actually doesn't really care about Middlesex too much. They play on what they are given. The fact the last match game Middlesex played on was a bit green but it was the overhead conditions that would have helped the bowlers more than the actual pitch.

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
BarmierKev 26 September, 2017 08:03
The pitch is a disgrace. However, we should have taken our early chances to make it more of contest. I'm Warwickshire till Thurs die

Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
AGod 26 September, 2017 08:21
Here's a philosophical question for the "pitch is a disgrace," brigade:

What's the difference between a track that starts flat and then turns a lot later in the match and a track that turns a lot early on and then becomes flat?

The latter is what tends to happen at Taunton - it's usually very hard to take wickets by day four and, if tomorrow's forecast is correct, then day four is likely to occur in this match.

One problem for your pitch complaints is this: Somerset have an appalling batting line-up - a mix of novices and experienced players who have barely made a run all year (all averaging in the twenties, pretty much) who played a host of shocking shots yesterday...... but they still made the highest score of the day. Had Somerset shown any kind of shot selection skills at all yesterday, they would probably have made 300 on the the 'disgrace,' of a pitch...

Re: Somerset at Ciderabad 25-28 Sept 2017
chunkyinargyll 26 September, 2017 09:22
A pitch is 'unfit' if dangerous (and by looks of things can incur an immediate penalty, with no previous warnings).

Excessive turn on days one and two means a pitch can be rated 'poor' for which you need two occurances in the same competition in 12 months.

The second paragraph is why Somerset might have a problem.

Uxbridge, for instance, may or may not have been 'poor' but, even if it was, it would only be the first instance, rather than repeatedly and deliberately pushing the boundaries of what is 'acceptable'

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