Latest news:


WELCOME TO THE MIDDLESEX ROOM, THE ONLY MESSAGE BOARD ON THE INTERNET DEDICATED TO MIDDLESEX CCC

Eating away over the winter


Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
Somerset not raking in the points
Discussion started by rod/ed , 18 November, 2019 20:55
Somerset not raking in the points
rod/ed 18 November, 2019 20:55
Points deduction for poor surface
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
chunkyinargyll 18 November, 2019 20:58
Oh dear.

How sad.

Never mind.

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
chunkyinargyll 18 November, 2019 21:03
Also another 12 points suspended for two years.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

When their groundsman moved to Hampshire he was described by Andy Hurry as producing pitches 'second to none', so how come the points deduction? (asking for a friend)

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
adelaide 18 November, 2019 21:08
"Second to none" in poor pitch preparation?

I thought that a second offence had to be within twelve months of the preceding one, which this wasn't.


Adelaide

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
BeefyRoberts 18 November, 2019 21:13
It's for uneven bounce as well.
I must admit though,is this typical ecb,waiting 2 months after the season finished?
Playing County games at the rear end (being polite) of September can give all sorts of conditions.
Will there be more counties having points deducted next season with the possibility of games being played same time of year?
Ok,I know they prepared the wicket to suit themselves,but,who wouldnt to try and win the title?

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
chunkyinargyll 18 November, 2019 21:16
Adelaide- I think you're right, but this was really taking the p- as in they were perfectly capable of providing good pitches until the moment they were past 52 weeks and needed a result.

There is a clear and undeniable pattern of intent here. Every time it happened was when there was everything to gain, and nothing to lose (or so they thought.

The 'second to none' comment is the paragraph under the roller.

[www.somersetcountycc.co.uk]

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
hantssabre 18 November, 2019 21:36
Shame there aren’t points deductions for contrived results in the CC!

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
adelaide 18 November, 2019 22:08
Just as well the match was won by the weather. Can you imagine the row if Somerset had been stripped of the title?


Adelaide

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
chunkyinargyll 18 November, 2019 22:22
Yes, I can.

I look upon it like buying a new car,

You clean it and polish it every week to keep it looking as good as new - cricket equivalent - keep shining the ball, and prepare the best track possible.

Or you're a bit lazy, so you don't wash your car and it gets a bit dirty- cricket equivalent- don't shine one side of the ball in the hope it might swing, or maybe over (or is it under) water a pitch, (that could be a genuine misjudgement) so maybe there is seam movement (but not dangerous- not up and down movement with one ball head high, and the next a grubber)

Or you take a knife to your car and scratch the paintwork. Why on earth would you do that? Cricket equivalent- ball tampering, or taking a rake to the pitch.

In scenario 3 you have definitely crossed the line. It is not in the same category as seam movement (which might be down to it being cloudy rather than sunny) To have a ball turning square within 30 minutes of day one requires positive decisions by the groundsman and can't be explained away as an accidental misjudgement.

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
hantssabre 19 November, 2019 08:31
I think Somerset would/have been shafted either way. Had we won the Championship by 11 points or less then I’m sure we would have been docked the points and stripped of the title (although you would have thought the decision would have been made a bit quicker!). You could not let the result stand and enforce a points deduction next season in the circumstances as it would set the wrong precedent. Therefore based on that assumption as a Somerset didn’t win the CC then the points deductions should still have applied to the 2019 season but as Somerset ended up 41 points clear of 3rd place then it wouldn’t have made any difference so I guess the ECB want to teach us a lesson.

Was the pitch dodgy? Yes it was but in fairness it was nearly winter when the game was played and it was on TV so were limited to which wickets could be used. Im sure the ECB are getting their own back for Andy Nash’s outburst at the Select Committee! Makes next season interesting!

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
chunkyinargyll 19 November, 2019 08:51
A points deduction for the season just gone would be meaningless, and no punishment at all, so of course it has to apply to next season.

I do wonder if Simon Lee moved to Hampshire because he wasn't happy at being asked to produce such pitches. Maybe he is one of the good guys and wasn't happy seeing his integrity brought in to question every time his bosses demanded such a pitch be prepared.

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
hantssabre 19 November, 2019 08:53
I guess we will see at the Rose Bowl next summer!

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
adelaide 19 November, 2019 11:07
I'm reminded that at least one football club (it might even have been Leeds) went into administration very late in the season, possibly after relegation was certain, in the hope that the points deduction associated with administration would be applied that season (when it made no difference) rather than the next one. That was seen through.

If deductions could not be carried over, you would be giving a free hit to a county to do what they wanted in the last match of the season if there was all to gain and nothing to lose. Whatever you think about the pitch in question, there has to be a meaningful sanction against going too far.

It is fair comment to say that some counties look as if they are producing pitches to favour their seam attack but it is much harder to prove and visiting teams have, at least for the time being, the option of putting the home team in, which would be pointless on a bunsen.


Adelaide

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
Seaxe_man1 19 November, 2019 12:20
i'm sure that Messrs Dawson, Crane and Lyon are happy that the Somerset groundsman has moved to Hampshire. Possible Champions in 2020!

As regards the Rakeshire game back in 2017. We were generally poor in that game anyway.

One exception was Ravi who used the conditions and took twelve wickets.

His reward was to be shown the door by The Chuckle Brothers with the usual unquestioning hierarchy onlookers.

The queue through the Lords exit turnstile is now a long one. Initially kicked off by The Chuckle Brothers.

There is no compensating crush on the Marylebone or St John's Wood esculaters of players demanding admittance.

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
adelaide 19 November, 2019 12:44
SM

The absence of a queue of counties seeking Ravi's services suggests that the Chuckle Brothers had a point. Yes, he took bundles of wickets on that pitch but it took him some time to get it right and the wickets were much more expensive than their three spinners' hauls. Our three were Ravi, Stirling and Malan, so I suppose it could be argued that Ravi's figures suffered from the lack of claustrophobia that a second good spinner could have induced. We chose not to go with Sowter. but I doubt it would have made much difference.

Adelaide

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
BeefyRoberts 19 November, 2019 13:18
Reading many comments on various social network sites about this decision.
And,one thing stands out...The wicket Somerset used was already a used one,had plenty of games on it,and had to be virtually in the middle as Sky were broadcasting live.
Bit like at Lords,and other grounds I suppose,that the television camera gantry dictates where the wicket has to be.
I'm not sticking up for Somerset,as,if my memory serves me,they were warned before about the wicket,but just a couple of points about the wicket location.

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
adelaide 19 November, 2019 13:26
Quote:
BeefyRoberts
Reading many comments on various social network sites about this decision.
And,one thing stands out...The wicket Somerset used was already a used one,had plenty of games on it,and had to be virtually in the middle as Sky were broadcasting live.
Bit like at Lords,and other grounds I suppose,that the television camera gantry dictates where the wicket has to be.
I'm not sticking up for Somerset,as,if my memory serves me,they were warned before about the wicket,but just a couple of points about the wicket location.

And they had absolutely no warning that TV was coming and therefore which wicket would have to be prepared? Remarkably convenient for a team which had done similar for a previous vital last match of the season. Admittedly they were opening it up for Harmer as well as their own triumvirate but it had to be a win.


Adelaide

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
Primrose Hillbilly 19 November, 2019 16:01
Given how all these offences come about with a suspended sentence applicable to the next season too, does this mean that Chunky can have his posting privileges on Grockles reinstated, or backdated, or should just we wait a few months now, just in case?

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
chunkyinargyll 19 November, 2019 16:51
I'm allowed to post on there Primrose, but I have no intention of doing so.

What angered me was the moderator of that forum lying to his posters by saying I had been disrespectful of all of them in my dealings with sportnetwork. That was categorically not the case. It was done to try to set his posters against me and was completely and utterly untrue. At no stage did I single out or mention any Grockles poster when I complained to SN (apart from the moderator himself)

Re: Somerset not raking in the points
Seaxe_man1 19 November, 2019 19:32
Quote:
adelaide
SM
The absence of a queue of counties seeking Ravi's services suggests that the Chuckle Brothers had a point. Yes, he took bundles of wickets on that pitch but it took him some time to get it right and the wickets were much more expensive than their three spinners' hauls. Our three were Ravi, Stirling and Malan, so I suppose it could be argued that Ravi's figures suffered from the lack of claustrophobia that a second good spinner could have induced. We chose not to go with Sowter. but I doubt it would have made much difference.

Adelaide
there is a rumour circulating that everyone was warned off. Given the other many misjudgements of The Chuckle Brothers, two of whom are county captain's, maybe the Chuckle boys were worried about being proven wrong again. He is now Director of Cricket at Harrow At Mary's. Likely get a job at Mx as has Keith Dutch also ditched in dubious circumstances. Pre Chuckles though.

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net