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Eating away over the winter

Saracens fallout?
Discussion started by adelaide , 25 January, 2020 13:27
Saracens fallout?
adelaide 25 January, 2020 13:27
The travails of our prospective neighbours at Barnet Copthall are all too well documented and I don't want to comment on that as such. I haven't watched them since they left Bramley Road, where a Clinton McGregor sidestep would make the earth move.

However, are there possible implications for MCCC? For example, what level of working together (if any) with Saracens is assumed in the Barnet plans? In a worst case scenario where Allianz Park was left to tumbleweed, would our scheme be viable?

There is also the involvement of Edward Griffiths, now back at Saracens at CEO and, shall we say, seen as a bit toxic now. He has been working as a consultant at Middlesex (to do with Copthall perhaps?).

According to press reports, Griffiths is also potentially being looked at for having acted as an unregistered agent. Specifically it says that he offered advice to the agent-free Dawid Malan about his move away from the county. If it is free advice (as Grifftiths says), I can't see a problem (and if there is one at all it is not for MCCC) but with being economical with the truth running through the whole Saracens imbroglio everything come sunder suspicion.

Finally, has Griffiths still got consultancy links with Middlesex?

There may be no problems at all for us and I certainly have no inside information but I thought it worth flagging it up.

At least we can be sure that MCCC has not broken the salary cap. Most counties cannot afford to spend up to the cap.


Re: Saracens fallout?
Seaxe_man1 26 January, 2020 10:36
Adelaide. As you say. No chance of Mx breaking salary cap as that would suck up our remaining reserves. According to Mx hierarchy there is no formal link between Mx Copthall and Saracens. Rather suspect Barnet Council is more important. I can remember when Wasps played at Repton Avenue seeing a giant of a bloke called Ben Clarke playing for Saracens.

Re: Saracens fallout?
adelaide 27 January, 2020 11:14
SM - It's the involvement of Griffiths at both organisations which gives me pause for thought.

The worst case scenario for Saracens is that they go under, leaving the tumbleweed blowing through another stadium in Barnet, to go with Underhill and the cricket pitch and pavilion next to it. Total mess and the references to honesty and humility above the stand could go on the Oxymorons thread.

My memories of Bramley Road go back to watching George Sheriff play. Those were the days when he was Saracens' only international (possibly ever!). A well aimed clearance kick could score a direct hit on the 29 bus going down the main road.


Re: Saracens fallout?
dnb 28 January, 2020 14:30
Report from the Cricketer...


Re: Saracens fallout?
chunkyinargyll 28 January, 2020 14:56
Doing some of the things you might expect an agent to do, but not acting as an agent.

Presumably Dawid Malan has an agent (indeed I thought even young players did) but it seems more likely it was George Scott who he helped arrange a move.

Unregistered agents (if found guilty of acting as an agent) sounds like the sort of thing that in a worse case scenario might attract a fine or a points deduction, the problem being the club would have known he wasn't an agent. Maybe he didn't take an agents fee for negotiating a move, but as we were paying him for 'consultancy work' he didn't need to.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Jeff Coleman 28 January, 2020 19:57
Edward Griffiths has resigned as Interim CEO of Saracens with immediate effect.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Seaxe_man1 28 January, 2020 22:59
As you say Adelaide. No smoke without fire. ECB investigation don't sound good for Mx.

Re: Saracens fallout?
adelaide 28 January, 2020 23:34
There often is smoke without fire, particularly on the internet!

There is stuff an agent might do that anyone can do. It's the stuff which only an agent should do which would make it a problem but would Middlesex have known (for example) if Griffiths had been advising a player on how to get the best deal elsewhere? They would have known if he had come in with a player trying to negotiate a new deal at Middlesex but it is hard to imagine that they could have let that happen.

Trouble now is that nobody associated with running Saracens has any credibility left so if someone says "but I only did X" people jump to thinking they also did Y and Z. Particularly if they denied doing X for months on end. Griffiths was not at Saracens during the three years for which they were initially done but he was there before that and the rugby world seems to believe that naughty stuff has been going on for a long time.


Re: Saracens fallout?
chunkyinargyll 29 January, 2020 07:39
Presumably it would have to be proven that he took money to act as an agent.

If he acted as an agent but took no money then even if he did give advice to a player on how to arrange a move it is no different to a friend or relative or another player giving free advice.

The difficult bit is Middlesex paying him as a consultant (paid but under a different job title?) but why would it be in Middlesex's interests to help a player leave if they wanted him to stay?

Hopefully that last point puts us in the clear. The ECB (and anyone else for that matter) would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt deliberate deception took place. Thinking it might is one thing, but I reckon they'd have a hard job proving it, so will probably give us the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Seaxe_man1 29 January, 2020 08:35
When the brown stuff hits the fan it spreads and sticks rapidly. Mx won't relish that. Fortunately here, unlike elsewhere, you are innocent until proven that you are guilty. Though the smell can linger chunky.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Primrose Hillbilly 30 January, 2020 10:48
My recent dealings with our Management do not fill me with confidence as to their ability to deal with anything like this.

I just hope that there is genuinely "nothing to see here", and that it will be the press who discover this for themselves.

All I can see our lot achieving would be to fan the flames of the dying Embers (sorry), by issuing an energetic denial just as everyone was losing interest.

Clint McGregor - wow - saw him score a final at Twickenham for Middlesex in the county championship final one very cold early January day way back when. By the time we'd walked back to Richmond, my feet had just about thawed out. He must have crashed over from all of a yard.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Seaxe_man1 31 January, 2020 17:28
Likely Edward Griffith's ticked the ABU box. Wouldn't wanna miss out on that one.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Jonathan Winsky 29 June, 2020 20:19
Confirming what he said at 25:14 in the YouTube video of last week’s virtual Middlesex AGM, Richard Goatley has said in an article in the Hampstead & Highgate Express that Middlesex’s hopes of building a facility at Barnet Copthall are (to use a term he used at the AGM, but not in the aforementioned article) “currently dead”, as Saracens’ relegation means that there is less potential for the location to earn the amount of commercial matchday income it would have gained from rugby being played next door compared to had Saracens remained in the Premiership. However, he has not ruled out the scheme being revisited in a couple of years’ time.

I would have written about this announcement last week, but I was worried that I would have betrayed the request that the club made for members to not disclose what was discussed.

Re: Saracens fallout?
adelaide 30 June, 2020 00:25

Thanks. My original post on this in January seems to have been on the button.

It is clear that Saracens are planning on being back in the Premiership for the season after next, rather than fading away and the gap between a relegated team and the rest of the Championship is pretty huge so that does seem likely. Given that our new ground would not be built in a few months, on the face of it by the time it is built the same opportunities would be available as when planning started. The first question mark would whether Saracens maintain attendances if promoted again. Rugby fans are pretty loyal so probably yes.

The second and rather bigger question mark is Covid related because the future of professional rugby union on its current scale is open to question and all but Exeter were making a loss already. If the game shrinks then so does the income for Saracens. Maybe they will have to return to Bramley Road!

The article seems also to confirm my thoughts on another thread somewhere that not owning the main ground was beneficial in these circumstances. MCC would be bearing those costs initially. Was anything (repeatble) said at the AGM about whether MCC is reducing its payment to MCCC this year?


Re: Saracens fallout?
dingy bags 30 June, 2020 07:56
No. Probably depends to an extent on what can be managed this season.

Re: Saracens fallout?
Seaxe_man1 03 July, 2020 09:23
Richard Goatley talked about some spectator entrance at Lord's. Presumably if allowed would assist in the lump sum calculation. T20 on that basis could still be an earner as I imagine the five games as agreed previously would be staged there. The Sky dough another issue.

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