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Dead man's pass.
Discussion started by Gezza, , 12 February, 2020 21:15
Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 12 February, 2020 21:15
No not an old western movie, but the story about the bloke facing jail time after being convicted of jibbing into the pavilion at Lords with an MCC pass he bought on e-bay.
Would someone be kind enough to post a link to this story for others to comment on as being new to this board I am incapable. Thank you

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2020 22:02 by gezzaofthemiddle.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Jonathan Winsky 12 February, 2020 22:58
An article about this can be viewed on the Daily Mail’s website.

Although it is difficult to condone the idea of someone obtaining a membership card of an MCC member who died in 2014 in order to effectively jump ahead of a 29-year queue to access the Lord’s Pavilion on a day of an Ashes Test in 2019 (although I have alternatively read this happened at an England v India Test in 2018), it would be harsh to sentence James Lattimer to two years in prison, not least because there are plenty of people around who get less or no jail time for arguably more serious offences.

Lattimer’s barrister, Jonas Milner, argues that Lattimer merely took “advantage of security measures that are trusting” and “trespassed into an area he shouldn't have been in”, while I will make the argument that Lattimer paid for ground admission (albeit at the price of the cheapest ticket available) and appears to have only entered the Pavilion once (or maybe he was only caught out once), so it doesn’t sound like he entered the ground without paying, he persistently offended or he posed some sort of security threat.

A lot of occasions that people get sentenced to or - threatened with - time in prison for what seems like a minor offence is because they have other convictions, meaning that the minor offence effectively becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back. I don’t know whether the judge will take into account the fact that this offence only came to light because Lattimer was accused, but then cleared, of committing sexual assault in the Pavilion. As he was cleared of sexual assault, then it shouldn’t have any bearing on whether he gets sentenced for his entry to the Pavilion.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 13 February, 2020 00:27
Thanks for the link, Jonathan. The alleged sexual assault took place at the India Test in 2018 and he was arrested at the Ashes Test in 2019 when the victim identified him, but mainly due to the lack of CCTV evidence he was acquitted of the sexual assault. So we know he used the pass at least twice. We can only speculate as to if he used the pass on other occasions even to watch Middlesex which some would claim would have been punishment enough, but it would seem likely he did, as it was stated in court his main hobby was watching cricket.
The transfer and misuse of passes at Lords have
been rife for years, although recently introduced security measures make it more difficult for offenders it will always go on.
So let's hear any tales of jibbing anywhere any of you may have, come on guys we've all done it!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2020 12:38 by gezzaofthemiddle.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Seaxe_man1 13 February, 2020 13:14
Sounds an unpleasant an devious individual. Extremely lucky to be found not guilty of sexual assault due to lack of evidence rather than being innocent it sounds like.

The young lady was intercepted by Lattimer going to the loo. Pressed up against the wall , groped and kissed without her permission according to her evidence.

It is unlikely she would forget his face in a hurry as the assault took place in broad daylight at close quarters.

The problem of lack of security is because MCC, like many at that level dwell too much on trivia rather than the real deal.

ie. checking the dress code rather than the pass.

The Telegraph report today on page 3. States . That Lattimer's lawyers say that MCC fake passes are readily available online for £4.99.

Should not MCC Security be looking into this and a more rigorous check be made on passes rather than collars, footwear etc.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 13 February, 2020 13:40
I do not think those on e-bay are fake SM but presumably ones from previous years, with the year for use not clearly displayed. Like yourself I've never been a member so cannot be sure,
Back in the poverty-stricken 30s as a small boy, were you never tempted to squeeze through that hole in the fence down at The Cottage?

Re: Dead man's pass.
Seaxe_man1 13 February, 2020 18:03
Geza. My first love was Edgware Town as I was born there. The White Hart Ground if memory doesn't lie. Used to sell progs for them. A shilling a hundred wages and got in free, so no need to bunk in. FFC. First game 1953. Back in those days crowds varied between 15000 to 40000. Nine pence to get in. Fortunate to see our England men Haynes, Robbo, Jezzard and Charlie Mitten. Plus Arthur Stevens with a howitzer shot. Happy Days.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 13 February, 2020 18:17
Always had you down as a paragon of virtue SM.
Joe Bacuzzi and Archie Macaulay could almost qualify for another thread on this message board.

Re: Dead man's pass.
adelaide 13 February, 2020 18:20
Careful, chaps. If someone is found innocent, that is it. Implying that they are almost certainly guilty on a public forum could be taken as libel, so unless you are very sure of your ground...

I haven't come across the word "jibbing" in this context before. Perhaps it is from some weird dialect or other - whereabouts is Gezza from, I wonder?


Re: Dead man's pass.
Seaxe_man1 13 February, 2020 18:31
Said lucky Adelaide rather than guilty. Telegraph report as guilty today of false use of MCC pass. So in the public domain as was the previous case.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 13 February, 2020 19:04
I did say 'alleged' Adelaide and 'not guilty' is not the same as innocent, if the bloke wants to sue me for libel he's most welcome.
I was born and brought up in the leafy suburbs of northwest London not far from Lord's, and bunking in somewhere for free has always been known as ''jibbing'' where I came from.
So how about yourself Ad, never had your mates hold the exit doors open for you at Saturday morning pictures at The Old Southgate Ritz?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2020 19:13 by gezzaofthemiddle.

Re: Dead man's pass.
adelaide 13 February, 2020 19:29
Innocent until proved guilty, thus not guilty is innocent (in law). The Scots have not proven as well.

The odd bus fare didn't get paid, if the conductor could not be bothered to do the job properly but other than that I was a good boy (in that sense)! I had a mate who used to watch the last half hour of football matches because he would go in for free when the doors were opened to let the terminally fed up leave early but that just seemed plain odd, like only watching the last few minutes of a film.

The Ritz/ABC in Bowes Road survives as a Kingdom Hall, though developers have their eye on it. The Odeon was more local to me, then it was renamed the Capitol but now it is a block of flats.


Re: Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 13 February, 2020 20:17
The best jibbing story I've heard is about a Yorkshireman who was pulled up at Headingley one day under suspicion and freely admitted the life member's pass he produced was issued to his father who had died about ten years previously, leaving him all his possessions, and as Yorkshire CCC kept sending a new one each season he felt fully entitled to use it. He had a point.
Well, the club disagreed, confiscated the pass and suspended him for the rest of the season. The best part of the story, however, is that Yorkshire then sent him a new card the following season together with a standard letter thanking him for his unswerving support. enduring devotion. and faithfulness to the club and inviting him to enjoy the new season, and no he never used it.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Haringey Racer 13 February, 2020 20:43
[quote Seaxe_man1]Geza. My first love was Edgware Town as I was born there. The White Hart Ground if memory doesn't lie.

White Lion, surely? Now a Travelodge or similar, I believe.

Re: Dead man's pass.
Gezza, 13 February, 2020 21:09
He is 98 HR, memory does fade a bit at that age.confused smiley

Re: Dead man's pass.
Seaxe_man1 13 February, 2020 21:17
HR. Correct. I was thinking Lion. Old Ma Lunes used to steady herself against me flogging programmes outside the pub afore

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