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WELCOME TO THE MIDDLESEX ROOM, THE ONLY MESSAGE BOARD ON THE INTERNET DEDICATED TO MIDDLESEX CCC

Eating away over the winter


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Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 26 May, 2020 18:45
Miles Kington wrote for Punch. I suspect that Instant Sunshine would struggle to get on radio or TV nowadays, the word "clever" having become an insult (and Punch having been laid to rest). We don't do subtlety any more.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 26 May, 2020 18:49
Correct Adelaide. As GLCCC the Oval would be a home ground. Also Beckenham and assorted Essex grounds. Spoilt for choice.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 26 May, 2020 19:03
Harrow owns three of the mountains Adelaide. Brockley Hill, Stanmore Hill and Harrow Hill.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 26 May, 2020 19:08
Going back to BMC. I worked for them for number of years. We used to build the Austin Princess in NW9. A poor man's Rolls constructed on a chassis with a wooden body. We sold a few to Arab Sheiks. Haven't seen one in years.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 26 May, 2020 19:14
Cutler did indeed shoot himself and us in the foot. He swiftly moved from Harrow to Chorley wood knowing the rates explosion coming. Got bit there as Junction 19 on M25 was built close to his shack. Had that mumbo jumbo been fully explained and put to a referendum. Cutler wouldn't have won it. Cutler knew that so didn't have one.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 26 May, 2020 20:57
I don't know where the actual hill is but Harrow only owns the northbound lane of Brockley Hill! The road is a condominium with Barnet.

A little curiosity for you. Totteridge was in Hertfordshire pre-1965 according to my old map but was in London N20. That pesky Post Office was the Dominic Cummings of uts time - it did what it wanted!


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 26 May, 2020 20:58
Quote:
Seaxe_man1
Going back to BMC. I worked for them for number of years.

Ah, that explains why they were going bust!


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 27 May, 2020 09:04
I also worked for BA for 35 years Adelaide. Still with us.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 27 May, 2020 09:15
Going back to the wind of change or evolution. That is movement from colony to self government. I have absolutely no problem with that. Natural progression. The first to be granted that was Canada in 1874., Followed by Australia in ,1901 and South Africa after the second Boer War. All fought with us in WW,1 and 2. We have just returned from colony status after the Chuckle Brothers experiment though it seems some still hanker colony status.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/05/2020 09:18 by Seaxe_man1.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 27 May, 2020 13:05
Apologies for being so far off topic but really...

SM

If "colony" means "member states with universal suffrage in the same position as every other member state, with the ability to leave if we wanted" then, yes, we were a colony. Actual colonies would have loved to be in that position.

I don't think that allowing countries with governments comprised of people who "looked like" and were often descended from us was much of a wind of change. There was India, with whom I think we always had a different relationship, in 1947. It wasn't until the 1960s that it got carried through to most of the Empire.

South Africa did indeed offer sterling support in the fight against a regime based on ideas of racial superiority but did not seem to appreciate the irony of doing that and then institutionally embedding apartheid.



Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 27 May, 2020 17:00
India. Adelaide. There we left behind the world's biggest democracy. Had we never been there or any of those countries do you reckon there would be Test cricket and any other sport today. The largest ever single British Army was the 14th Forgotten Army. Bill Slim said rations were for one million men two thirds of whom were Indian. Since sovereignty has been passed on: 57 have opted to stay in the Commonwealth. So clearly they attach value. The fact that some think we get some things right is Mozambique, a former Portuguese colony who has opted to join the Brits. By the way. I left BMC long before Chuckle Brother Harold entered with his poison chalice common market. The huge subs for not much was not not advertised by fellow brother Ted. Run by 27 unelected commissioners amusing not mentioned by the fourth estate currently banging on about Dom. I would think the quids we have passed across the Brussels bank counter over 47years makes the current pandemic bill small change.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 27 May, 2020 19:04
Cameroon joined as well, so yes. South Africa was outside for many years for obvious reasons. Fiji has been in and out, so too Pakistan. Of course the UK cannot enforce its will upon Commonwealth members, unlike in Empire days, which is probably why, along with trading links, former colonies joined up.

Decisions in the EU are ultimately taken by the representatives of the (elected) governments. The commissioners run the EU civil service. The big difference compared with (say) the UK is that only the Commission can bring forward legislative proposals but if enough member states want something, the Commission cannot simply ignore it. If enough member states don't like what is brought forward, it doesn't happen.

Inevitably in those circumstances no country always gets what it wants (no, not even Germany). We decided to leave. But please, don't provide us with a Trump-style misrepresentation of how the thing worked in the first place.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 28 May, 2020 09:53
Nothing Trump style Adelaide. They are the facts. I lived through it. Like Cutler, consulting the electorate was avoided until the deal was done. Wilson recall, on devaluing the pound, claimed it wasn't the one in your pocket. It was somebody else's. Duplicity pure and simple. A hallmark of that era. I rest my case m'lud. Anyway moving on. I note that Richard Gould is hopeful of some county cricket this year. With maybe a five day Lords Final. He is hopeful that some spectators could attend at the Oval, but if not, happy behind closed doors. Good for England and players he thinks. Elsewhere, Eoin Morgan is hopeful England will play this year. Gould also is opposed to equity investment in cricket. I agree. At odds with member clubs he says. Hard to disagree. The ECB are studying the accounts of all counties to ascertain what can be afforded next year. Unusually sensible. Btw Surrey reported a record profit for the financial year of £6.3 million pre tax. Assisted with 13500 members. Middlesex a £16000 loss which to be fair, is a vast improvement on recent years.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 28 May, 2020 11:38
SM

Your description of how the EU is run was almost complete tosh, I'm afraid. You may have lived through the years but I lived through the process for some (admittedly not vitally important) EU legislation. Was I sick by the end of it of Brussels and back in a day! It is a long way from perfect but light years from the cartoonish picture you draw.

BTW, do you have the same reservations about NATO, given that in theory we are obliged to go to war if another NATO member (Turkey, say) is attacked? Breaches of sovereignty can't get much bigger than that.

Are you sure you are not getting Horace Cutler mixed up with Desmond Plummer, who was the first Conservative leader of the GLC? Cutler may have been the bearded eminence grise behind it all but it was a long time in gestation and his biog suggests he was far too junior to have had such influence.

The differences between the sizes of Surrey's and Middlesex's membership bases was discussed on a Surrey board. The conclusions were, broadly, that the relationship between Middlesex and MCC made comparisons pretty useless but someone also said that a fair few of the Surrey membership were only interested in priority for the Oval Test, not Surrey.

As far as finances go, I suppose that Middlesex has much less to lose in terms of income associated with the ground than Surrey and other counties, because most of it is not ours to lose in the first place. On the other hand, maybe the MCC income disappears. We must hope that all counties emerge from this in reasonable shape but it may be that having an expensive Test ground to maintain through the pandemic becomes a hindrance rather than a help.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 01 June, 2020 08:11
Almost complete tosh. So some isn't. I think Barnier gives a good insight. No problem with NATO but Barnier has. Cutler a Harrow builder as I said had a vested interest in GL. Btw Jonathan Agnew lives in Rutland. Initially in the Heath's map absorbed into Leics since reinstated. High time Mx was put back on the map of England. When Pickles was Local Government Minister I wrote to him suggesting how that could be achieved. He was a man who believed in counties. MCC finance. They are not paying back subscriptions and have furloughed staff. Now selling 80 thousand pound memberships. So I expect them to survive. Mx have no ground to hire out so won't miss that. They do have 85 staff to look after, Finchley, Radlett and a number of hubs. There are costs there. The other outgrounds look after themselves. Uxbridge say they are ok until August.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 01 June, 2020 10:41
SM

By "MCC income" I meant "MCCC income from MCC". Never any doubt that MCC will survive, with a huge waiting list to replace anyone who objects to no refund.

You seem to have a thing about Cutler but I can't find anything that suggests he was one of the architects of the GLC plan. Nor why it should benefit his building company more than the previous local government structure.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 01 June, 2020 11:00
I agree that income is under threat.. Cutler as a builder wanted pre 1964 to build motorway boxes. Then, he would have had to deal with five county councils for permission. So the wheeze was. Make it into one and get myself elected. Now as you say, the second didn't happen but that was Cutler's dream. As I said. When the elites know they won't win. They avoid reference to the electorate. An old trick still in use.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 01 June, 2020 12:09
Did Cutler's firms ever build roads? Big projects were usually the domain of the Wimpeys, McAlpines and Costains of this world, not some family firm from Harrow.

The planned motorway box was, I would think, within the old LCC area, so no benefit to him there. The M25 is almost entirely outside the GLC (though probably not as first proposed in 1957) so no benefit to him there. Apparently the M25 ended up going through part of his garden! I can vaguely recall some talk of an outer London ring road somewhere between the circular roads and the M25 but if it was ever a serious thought I suspect it would have been a South Circular style road signs thing, like sticking a label on the road between Barnet and Enfield, rather than a serious construction job.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
freddie tittlemouse 01 June, 2020 15:58
Horace Cutler inherited the family firm which specialised in developing derelict buildings. That went bust so he turned his skills to opening coin operated launderettes. He never had any connection to road building.

Ringway 1, the inner London Motorway Box would have been entirely within the old LCC boundaries. Only a small section was ever built including the West Cross Route in Shepherds Bush. Ringway 2 would have replaced the North and South Circular Roads and probably would have been in part outside the LCC boundaries. I don't think any of that ever happened to judge by the state of the South Circular Road which is a bad joke and ends at the Woolwich Ferry.
Ringway 3 never got beyond some bright spark sitting over a map with a ball point pen.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 01 June, 2020 17:50
Cutler Freddie. I believe what you say was the eventual outcome. However, it was widely reported here, Harrow, that at that time was his interest. He may have had a link up with bigger companies. Bigger than many of those was Ernest Marples a minister who owned a tarmac company. Just by chance lol Beeching was put in to close the railways creating a need.for tarmac, oceans of it. 8000 miles of track closed. Leaving the car as an option
In global warming times not looking too good. Later a bloke called Serpell made another report. He recommended closing the entire system bar Euston to Glasgow. PM Thatcher wisely put that in the shredder. Cardiff and Edinburgh no railway lol. Ringway 3 Freddie describes Middlesex's fate rather well.

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