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Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 28 September, 2020 11:02
Have to say Adelaide that awhile back, probably in the Russell Grant era. The 40 Middlesex MPS, said that that the County was not abolished, ( in Parliament) just the Council. So it appears that the Westminster hierarchy still recognises that there are Middlesex MP's..

A guy from your area said correctly, that is not law. True. This I believe (40 MPs statement) was recorded in Hansard which gives that statement weight.

I still see absolutely no reason to remove from the map of England, the County of Middlesex on that basis. Indeed, I did suggest to Mr Pickles Department how that could be (restored) done.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 28 September, 2020 12:33
SM - I'm sure you have mentioned it before at least once. I'm equally sure that I have pointed out before that it was an Early Day Motion and never debated or voted on. There are thousands of such motions each session. So not much weight at all really.

Must admit I am struggling to imagine what practical difference the existence of Middlesex as a geographical (but not administrative) county would make to anybody. What could we do that we cannot do now?

Emotional difference, maybe.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
dingy bags 28 September, 2020 16:21
Oliver's Island and Chiswick Eyot (I think there are other islands in the river) - in Middlesex or the other place?

Re: Happy Middlesex day
selincourt 28 September, 2020 19:57
Adelaide, I think you protest too much that postal addresses are irrelevant (which they are) when you only seem troubled when Middlesex survives as the address. Of course, those few parts of Middlesex that retain the address do not constitute all of Middlesex. Stepney and Southgate are as much part of Middlesex as the western fringes. I presently live in Wanstead. It has an East London postcode, however, many residents consider themselves part of Essex (which they are ).

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 28 September, 2020 22:25
Selincourt

Again, my only reason for mentioning (for example) the Denham one is to show its irrelevance. At one stage there were people claiming that the presence of Middlesex in their postal address proved that Middlesex still existed. If nobody believes that it is relevant any more, then my work is done!

Out of interest, which side of the Roding do you live on? The western side appears to be E11 while the eastern side is IG4. I was wondering before whether that postal distinction - London vs Essex - affected where people think they live (though it shouldn't).


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
selincourt 28 September, 2020 23:07
Adelaide, all of Wanstead is west of the Roding, Ilford is east of the Roding. Both areas are in the London Borough of Redbridge. In my experience residents of both areas have an attachment to Essex (as you will know the Essex county ground used to be in Leyton, E10). That Essex continues to have a county council and Middlesex doesn't is irrelevant, for both Middlesex and Essex have geographical boundaries.
You seem to have a problem with people thinking they live in Middlesex (when they do) - get over it !



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 28/09/2020 23:17 by selincourt.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 28 September, 2020 23:55
Selincourt

I don't have a problem with people thinking they live in geographical/historical areas called Middlesex, Essex, Wessex. I think I draw the line at Narnia. They may not agree on what Middlesex or whatever comprises but, as none of it has any practical implications that I can think of for their lives, that does not really matter.

Where it all goes awry in my opinion is when it spills over into this "bring back Middlesex County Council" argument. As you imply, the two are completely separate.

I'd actually turn it round and suggest that some people seem to have a problem with people thinking they live in London (when they do). Perhaps they should get over it.



Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
freddie tittlemouse 29 September, 2020 09:36
Adelaide by your line of thinking you'd have no concerns if our club decided to change its name to "North West London"

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 29 September, 2020 12:49
Freddie

I'd be very concerned. Obviously it should be Outer North, North West, West London and a few bits of South West London.

Seriously, this is the whole problem with this discussion. Private organisations can call themselves whatever they want, end of story (apart from the twerp who SM says wanted the club renamed Greater London). They are nothing to do with each other; "Wessex Water" does not mean that Wessex still exists in any meaningful sense.

Nobody has yet responded to my question as to what practical difference the ongoing existence of a geographical or historical makes to our lives.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 29 September, 2020 13:10
Adelaide: my solution to restore Middlesexshire to the map as I suggested to Mr Pickles.

Using the London Transport method to illustrate their lines by using different colours.

So the Middlesex outline for me would be Piccadilly Blue since it is contained within The Middle. Other colours could relate to the rest.

Happy to bowl down there myself and do it for them.

55 years down the road, the schools in this area still have the county badge on their coat of arms and I have seen likewise in those at H and F.

This suggests to me that no one is interested in the GLC outside of the overpaid lot on the other side of the River in I think the so called County Hall..Lol....is Khan the county chief?

Should he be invited as a Middlesex CCC or GLC CC Vice President depending on your fancy.

Btw dinghy. Chiswick Eyot like Blackfriars Station: belong to The Middle. Never heard of Oliver's Island. Can you advise?

We once played the Australians at Chiswick Park in I think 1877.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 29 September, 2020 15:27
SM

Colours on a map - it's just froth. Tell me how that would change anything.

If crests etc have not been changed, that could just indicate that nobody is interested one way or the other.

Oliver's Island, like Chiswick Eyot, falls within the London Borough of Hounslow, so presumably used to be Middlesex.

Just for accuracy, it is the GLA in City Hall, not the GLC in County Hall!


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
chunkyinargyll 29 September, 2020 15:34
It's going to be a long 6 months till April.....

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 29 September, 2020 16:06
Either way Adelaide. Both a waste of money. To answer your question. Most people like to relate to something they understand. Quien sabe.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 29 September, 2020 16:10
Winter solstice not until December 21st chunky. In the meantime still got seven games of T20 left. Be happy.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 29 September, 2020 16:16
Quote:
adelaide
SM
Colours on a map - it's just froth. Tell me how that would change anything.

If crests etc have not been changed, that could just indicate that nobody is interested one way or the other.

Oliver's Island, like Chiswick Eyot, falls within the London Borough of Hounslow, so presumably used to be Middlesex.

Just for accuracy, it is the GLA in City Hall, not the GLC in County Hall.


Adelaide
Cheers for Oliver's Island info Adelaide. Middlesexshire outlined in blue would look great. The bits of Surrey should be brown to reflect the Brown Caps.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
freddie tittlemouse 29 September, 2020 17:01
I see Adelaide as the Middlesex equivalent of Vichy France - un collaberateur.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 29 September, 2020 18:42
Je suis un Londoner, Freddie!

SM - if you think most people under 60 find it easier to identify primarily with a Middlesex they cannot draw, let alone define, than London, I think you are kidding yourself.

Identifying is an emotional thing rather than a real world difference - my question remains unanswered, methinks.


Adelaide

Re: Happy Middlesex day
Seaxe_man1 30 September, 2020 10:10
That's the spirit Adelaide. With the charge for an average property approaching two grand to support the political entity called the GLC it would be interesting to know the level of non payment. Either because they can't or won't. Khan has persisted in jacking the charge up year on year. Eventually it will reach the point where large numbers cannot pay. What happens then? All in the slammer. A daft idea in the first place. One of many from that era which we are trying to unlumber from now. High time to move on from the GLC nonsense. A holiday home for the political class and pals.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
dingy bags 30 September, 2020 11:54
Thanks also from me for info on Chiswick Eyot and Oliver's Island. The latter is close to Kew Bridge. It is also the name of a Fuller's ale.

I see from a map that there are other islands opposite Kew Gardens, presumably also part of the Middle. Inhabited by a colony of herons last time I looked.

Re: Happy Middlesex day
adelaide 30 September, 2020 12:17
DB

I think the border between boroughs (and presumably between former counties) is roughly down the middle of the river. There are three islands at the northern end of Kew Gardens. One of them (Long Ait) is in Hounslow while the other two are in Richmond, rather ironically since they appear to be called Brentford Ait.

I'm wondering if the split between Hammersmith and Wandsworth councils explains why nobody has been taking proper responsibility for Hammersmith Bridge.


Adelaide

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