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Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Sussex Seaxe 13 August, 2020 17:12
I am concerned about this. Whether he has England DNA or not, whether he has a hissy fit or not, the issue for me is a trend of young players who have been developed in the club, leaving for pastures new.

If we have a number of younger, better, batsmen coming through, it is maybe fine, but if not it simply encourages our players to think that they should look elsewhere and other counties to think they can cherry pick our young players.

I do hope someone other that Gus or the Lawman are having exit interviews with those who leave, to check that there is not a deeper issue that might need addressing.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
adelaide 13 August, 2020 17:26
Let's just say that an exit interview with Gus to ascertain the root of the problem might not be the best way of getting the answers.


Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
wembleylion 13 August, 2020 17:52
Something wrong with this club. If Ethan Bamber goes that's me finished.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
chunkyinargyll 13 August, 2020 18:06
I'm sure a sensible discussion will have been attempted.

'Just be patient for a couple of games, and which ever one of the top 5 isn't producing will be left out and you'll get your chance'.

But if someone won't even be patient for a couple of games then it's better to find out sooner, rather than later.

I mean, Max Holden was left out for a lot of last season, but he didn't say to his agent, 'I'm a celebrity. Get me out of here', he did what you are meant to do- fought to get his place back.

If he had left there would have been cries of, 'He's got our highest List A score. How could we let this happen'

You learn a lot when someone is left out. Do they fight to get back in to the side, or do they get on the phone to their agent?

Better to find out sooner, rather than later. At some point in the next year or two Lace might have been left out if his form dipped, so presumably at that point he would have wanted out.

Maybe Mr Law wanted to see how committed Tom Lace was, so set him a test of, 'I'll make him wait a couple of matches, to see how he reacts.

To be honest I'm disappointed we let him sign a contract that said he could leave if he didn't make the starting eleven for the first match. That proves we must have rated him, but completely ridiculous to have allowed that clause.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Fozzie 13 August, 2020 18:36
Hmm. That seems really motivational management:

Gus: "We're going to send you to Derby to see how you do, Tom".

Tom: "743 runs in 10 matches, 3 centuries, average 43".

Stuart Law "Tom will be a great addition to our middle order. A talented batsman, a great character in the dressing room, and a Middlesex man through and through" (Laws's words on Lace renewing his contract)...."But we're going not going to pick you, just to test your commitment".

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
chunkyinargyll 13 August, 2020 18:44
You can't have players picking the side though.

I don't care how talented they are.

Anyone demanding a place (whoever they are) should always be pointed in the direction of the door marked 'EXIT'.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Seaxe_man1 13 August, 2020 18:56
Already about fifteen taken your advice.chunky, county captain's of Division one sides among them. Not the 1950/1960s anymore when Glamorgan had a 50 year old wicketkeeper. In any event the club were happy with the release clause.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Seaxe_man1 13 August, 2020 19:13
This problem predates Stuart Law by a long time chunky. 2009 to be precise, since when there has been a steady trickle now a flood. The year 2015 was ticketgate which cost us Chris Rogers, not replaced, and the CEO. Apart from the temporary blip of 2016 downhill ever since and it is uncertain as to whether it has bottomed out.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Mark Drukker 13 August, 2020 19:20
It happened long before Rossington, e.g. Metson and also Bob White in the 1960s.

If this were football, Middlesex would have asked for a big transfer fee with add-ons.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
chunkyinargyll 13 August, 2020 19:22

What annoys me about this departure is Tom Lace wasn't even willing to give it a go.

If he had been in and out of the first team for a season and a half and wanted to invoke his ;guarantee of a first team place' clause then fair enough. Both sides would have given it a go and we would have been unable to meet his requirements.

What annoys me is that he must have invoked his right to move clause at the very first opportunity.

So no patience or understanding that the team is bigger than his own personal requirements at all.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
dnb 13 August, 2020 19:24
Can’t see that Lace did anything wrong. He clarified the basis on signing his new contract and when that wasn’t realised during either of the first two games he left and joined a Division 1 county. He was obviously not satisfied with the basis of selection and didn’t want to waste any further time at Middlesex.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Seaxe_man1 13 August, 2020 19:56
Plus he was loaned out at Derby for experience and did well but no end product. Dnb gives a fair summation with which I agree. It's not as though we have any current Test batsmen and on current form they are way down the pecking order.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
freddie tittlemouse 13 August, 2020 19:58
Given the choice between (not) playing for an increasingly moribund second division team and a clearly ambitious highly motivated 1st Division team on the up, it really is no contest.
At least our top 5 picks itself for the rest of the season.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Jonathan Winsky 13 August, 2020 20:29
Had this been a normal season with 36 matches across the County Championship and group stages of the two limited-overs competitions, then I would have expected Tom Lace to have played for Middlesex at some point. However, the fact that the 2020 season has been truncated had meant that he reached the middle of August still waiting to play for us! I don’t have any issue with the fact that he has not played in our two Bob Willis Trophy matches so far, as the batsmen who have played all have a legitimate case to have played, although had any of the batsmen yet to fire had a poor match v Kent at Canterbury, then Lace would have been justified in claiming that he ought to have been given a go for at least one of our final two group matches. He also would have had a chance of being in contention to play in our T20 Blast campaign.

As appears to have been the case with Ryan Higgins, it sounds like Lace gave up hope of ever becoming a regular at Middlesex, which is something I had confidence that both Higgins and Lace could have become had they held on.

We will have to see how everyone looks back on this move in the future. I imagine that Higgins and Harry Podmore are both happy with their moves, although it is too early to say about George Scott. When Higgins left, I anticipated that he would be a success and that everyone at Middlesex (OK, maybe just our supporters rather than our management) would rue the fact he had left, and I have been proven correct. When Podmore left, I wasn’t too sad, as I didn’t anticipate a scenario whereby anyone at Middlesex would wish he still played for us, but he has proven me wrong. When Scott left, I wasn’t too sad, as I was a bit underwhelmed with his performances for us, and his departure has paved the way for Martin Andersson. So, the question is will Lace make Middlesex rue his departure, or will his career fail to follow a trajectory in which it is felt he is up to the standards of the batsmen in our side? I suppose the answer to this question will not only be determined by how well Lace performs at Gloucestershire, but also by how well the batsmen who play for us in the coming years perform.

I have heard some suggestions that playing for Middlesex is not as enjoyable compared to playing for a county based at a non-Test venue due to players perceiving that the coaches at non-Test venue counties will be more patient than at Middlesex if the player has a couple of bad matches. The fact that there are calls to drop some batsmen to have played in our two Bob Willis Trophy matches does nothing to disprove my point! Maybe that is why we seem to regularly see good players leave. I suppose that the club need to find a balance between aiming to be a winning side and ensuring that players don’t feel inhibited when they play for us.

A regular destination for players leaving Middlesex used to be Somerset, but the Great Western Railway engineers appear to have diverted the last section of this well-trodden path to Gloucestershire!

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
dnb 13 August, 2020 20:49
A little extract from the Gloucestershire website suggests that they are rather pleased and they have given him a contract to the end of 2023!

“Gloucestershire Cricket is thrilled to announce that 22-year-old batsman Tom Lace will join the Club with immediate effect and has signed a contract taking him to the end of the 2023 season.

One of the most promising players in the county game, Lace was the tenth highest scorer in Division Two in 2019 having scored 835 runs for Middlesex and Derbyshire at a strike rate of 49.97. Ryan Higgins was the only other player under the age of 25 in the top ten.”

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
adelaide 13 August, 2020 21:43
Mark Drukker
It happened long before Rossington, e.g. Metson and also Bob White in the 1960s.

I think we are getting desperate if we are invoking Bob White, who left us as a batsman and ended up as a bowler and No 11! He was competing with a young Clive Radley.

Moves between counties are common now. My problem is that all the movement seems to be out and none of it is in.

I don't think the clause in the contract is particularly objectionable but I suspect that the hierarchy are a little perturbed by it being invoked so quickly. I suspect in any case that if Glos had made an approach now even without the clause it would have been hard to resist the player's wishes.

There is an argument that squad sizes will have to shrink following the Covid crisis. Perhaps our management should be praised for realising this and getting players off the payroll sooner rather than later. Or perhaps the death stares should be braved and they should be asked what the hell they are playing at.


Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Bring back the Crusaders 14 August, 2020 00:04
It seems if your face doesn't fit at Middx you might as well leave because you will not be given any opportunities. The remaining batsman have no real incentive as they know they cannot be dropped as there is no-one to replace them. Beginning to think we are just an 'Old Boy Network' with no real ambition.

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
adelaide 14 August, 2020 01:04
Although Bob White has been mentioned in this thread, Robbie White's name has not come up, which perhaps indicates that he has not pushed on. Presumably we are looking to him, Cracknell and Lincoln to put some pressure on but all are unproven. One of the batsmen will have to drop out next year for Handscomb, assuming he still comes.

We now have a squad light on batsmen and (experienced) spinners but still heavy on seamers.


Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Seaxe_man1 14 August, 2020 01:20
Has there been any comment from our two hatted Board on this fiasco?

Re: Tom Lace leaves - for Gloucs!
Seaxe_man1 14 August, 2020 01:23
First to go under this regime was Owais Shah back in 2009. Thought to not be a good dressing room influence.

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