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Eating away over the winter

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Discussion started by freddie tittlemouse , 20 September, 2020 16:25
freddie tittlemouse 20 September, 2020 16:25
Assuming we have something like a full cricket season in 2021 what conclusions can we draw from this seasons truncated hotchpotch?

Our pace bowling has reached a crossroads. It's pretty certain that we are going to see less of TRJ, Finn and Harris as they can none of them be described as rising stars. Murtagh is phenomenal, shows no sign of waning ability or performance and could well continue in the same vein for at least another season, possibly 2. Do we have sufficient pace bowlers of quality coming through.

The batting clearly needs strengthening and one or two faces need replacing. Handscomb presumably may come in as captain but I do not see much reliable batting to accompany him.

Spin is an unknown quality. We have two young but as yet unproven spinners and they could make a breakthrough.

We still lack a no. 7 .

On balance I see a bit of improvement but not enough to believe we will storm through to win any of the competitions.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/09/2020 10:21 by BarmierKev.

Re: 2021
chunkyinargyll 20 September, 2020 16:48
I doubt if any big names will leave this winter, mainly because I don't think any of them are out of contract, so any experienced departures will only happen if someone with a year or more left asks to leave (and if it's a case of saving money, we might agree.

I'm not sure I would put Walallawita and Hollman in to the 'unknown quantity' bracket. Hollman particularly looks like the 'real deal'. Okay, it's T20, but his batting also is impressive (a reverse sweep 6 in today's match shows someone who already feels and acts like he belongs in the first team. Don't want either of them blocked, and there is also Sowter, so spin wise, I think we're okay.

Bamber only got one 4 day outing in this truncated season, partly because we wanted to get Cullen started and at this stage it would be too risky to have both in the same side. Cullen also a decent bat who can bat as high as 8 (who knows- maybe higher than that)

Agree we need another batsman as well as Handscomb. If it was me, Id go for Derbyshire's Luis Reece, someone I've long admired, who would also strenthen T20 batting.

I would say Andersson at 6 in the 4 day side, which in turn answers who bats at seven (Simpson).

We will start 2021 knowing we can trust our youngsters with some first team opportunities (as in Cullen or Bamber, and Hollman or Walallawita, and Cracknell or White- meaning one or other, but not both in each game as they get more experience. At some point son of Atherton will probably get a debut too.

In fact, the future doesn't look too bad.

Re: 2021
VincentVanDerVictory 20 September, 2020 22:06
In 2021 I predict the batting will still be a bit of an issue but much less so if lthe two overseas batting recruits materialise as SL intimated in his interviews.

It's a huge season for TRJ because he really needs a ( very) good season having missed far too much cricket through injury. The seam bowling in red ball remains fine enough with Legend Tim Murtagh, the reliable Cummins TRJ hopefully, Helm, Cullen ,possibly Bamber and with Andersson the real find if he can continue his knack of picking up lots of wickets but he too needs to improve his batting to be genuinely considered an allrounder.

I am unsure of when James Harris contract expires but I definitely would not renew it, as he has been very disappointing for too long and too often. Finn's contract runs out at the end of next season and depending on his form in T20 next season maybe he could be offered a 1 year white ball extension thereafter.

I am not sure why Robson has suffered so many low scores but I expect him to still be in tne mix again next season for what would surely be his last chance saloon.

I think Middlesex sadly will not improve much in red ball next season finishing around 4th in Division 2 but I do predict they will have a much stronger white ball season with the three young Middlesex spinners of Hollman, Wala and Sowter potential very exciting helping Middlesex to qualify for the T20 finals day , yes you read that right the T20 FINALS DAY, but on the given that SL keeps to his word and recruits 2 overseas power batters.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 21 September, 2020 11:45
Keep our players and build is the requirement for 2021.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 21 September, 2020 11:47
Vincent covered the situation thoroughly.

Re: 2021
dingy bags 28 September, 2020 16:15
One snag. I could be wrong but I think it is likely 'Miggy' will be classed as an o/s player next year (though thankfully 'Tills' won't). If Handscomb comes, as planned, we can't have him and two o/s batsmen in cc. If he plays in T20, again only one more o/s.

Please correct me if I am reading this wrongly.

Re: 2021
chunkyinargyll 28 September, 2020 16:33
I think you're right, DB.

So Handscomb and Cummins our two overseas in championship and 50 overs.

I think the suggestion was Handscomb wouldn't play T20, so we could sign someone else (Marsh?) for T20.

Walallawita english qualified before 2021 season starts, so no problem there.

I wonder if Cummins will try to revive his West Indies career (assuming the rules allow it) as it now has no bearing on his availability for us.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 12:20
Luke Wells anybody. Released by Sussex. Age 30. Av 35.19 18 tons 33 half tons 1000 twice. Could be handy top three.

Re: 2021
chunkyinargyll 03 October, 2020 12:28
Problem with Luke Wells is he won't add anything to the T20 side, as he is a bit of a crease occupier, which would be fine if we didn't already have one non T20 batsman in Sam Robson, and a reluctance to play Nick Gubbins in T20 as well.


His strike rate in one day cricket (even 4 day cricket) isn't good.

Whoever we get needs to play all formats.

Maybe wise to just sit back a bit and see who else becomes available.

Re: 2021
adelaide 03 October, 2020 13:09
Whenever I saw Wells play he looked like a walking wicket, so he would fit in well in our top 3. I (or he) may just have been unlucky, I suppose.

He is a useful spinner as well but I'm inclined to say "pass".

We maybe unable to afford anyone in any case.


Take the bucket round Adelaide I will chip in. Chris Nash released by Notts. Plays all forms but is 37.
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 13:17
Chris Nash released by Notts plays all forms. Is 37 though. Walking wickets Adelaide. Wells could join the club. Currently the Gang of Four. Not 1947 vintage.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2020 13:21 by Seaxe_man1.

Re: 2021
chunkyinargyll 03 October, 2020 13:26
Wouldn't be against Nash, but a bit of a sticking plaster solution (good for a couple of years, but no more).

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 13:30
You must have seen Wells in 2019 Adelaide. 14 games 500 odd runs 2 50s average down to 23.95 which puts him alongside our top four. So your advice looks sound on his 2019 form.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 13:34
I understand that the ECB has paid the bribe in full to the counties of 1.3 million. An assistance for covid-19 pandemic say ECB. That gives a little wriggle room.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 13:40
Correct Andy. Brexit ends kolpaks so Cummins o/s. I see no reason why chunky that he, Cummins, is not available for West Indies or Harmer for South Africa. Restores status quo afore the Czech handball player. That it applied to English Cricket says it all.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 13:52
Wouldn't be against Nash, but a bit of a sticking plaster solution (good for a couple of years, but no more).
Nash's career record a lot better. Average 37 .23 24 tons 67 half tons 1000 4 times.

Re: 2021
Seaxe_man1 03 October, 2020 13:57
Nash white ball record pretty handy. At Edgbaston, weather permitting.

Re: 2021
tallliman 05 October, 2020 17:52
Wouldn't be against Nash, but a bit of a sticking plaster solution (good for a couple of years, but no more).
Nash's career record a lot better. Average 37 .23 24 tons 67 half tons 1000 4 times.

Nash's last 4 fc seasons;

2017: 21 inns, 578 runs, 27.5 avg
2018: 17, 383, 22.5
2019; 24, 667, 29
2020; 4, 78, 19.5

Not sure id want him in the side

Re: 2021
Primrose Hillbilly 07 October, 2020 14:05
20201 sees the Lawman halfway through his 4 year deal.

His job description was – broadly – to get us back asap into Div 1, and massively improve our white ball performances, such that we were - at least in the mix for prize money. Finals Day for the T20 in either 2021 or 2022 would be really fantastic.

In an ideal / normal world, he would have drawn all conclusions needed by now and would be putting them into practice. I am assuming that the Board are not going to be lenient on him, and just grant a stay of execution, as it is - by and large - the same for all. So, no leeway, and he needs to act.


CC Side : Sam Robson is looking very shaky at the top of the order. Nick Gubbins is too. Eskinazi’s form may be affected by the burden of captaincy, but his side competed against sides in Div 1, and were not completely outclassed. At the top of the order, the only bright spot was the emergence of Max Holden as a competent opener.
Robbie White looks like he is worth his place in the side, as does Martin Andersson, replacing James Harris as a potential all rounder.
John Simpson ........... just the ultimate team man and player, so versatile and a great keeper.
Tim .......words cannot do him justice.
Miggy.........a shrewd signing.
Thilan .... never looked out of place, so keep him in the side
Ethan and Blake, - just didn’t get enough overs for a verdict, but they have youth on their side.

I have to believe that a bloke as big as Toby cannot have any more injuries, but by gosh, he’s been unlucky, and time is not on his side. Err........ he started his career as an opening batsman - just saying.
Can anyone tell me what became of Tom Helm?

Discards – I hate to say it, but Harry is not to be persevered with unless injuries require, nor is Finn.

Main Conclusion
We desperately need a guaranteed 1,200 runs a season rock in the top 3 on which the rest of our batting can be based. That alone is a lot more batting points. Uncertain that Handscombe will still come over next year, in any case. I'd rather not depend on a hired gun for one year - look how Roseberry fell away once he was robbed of the solidity of Desmond at the other end.

We know what “the established” first team picks are capable of – Robson, Gubbins, Eski, and it has been massively disappointing, so give youth a chance. Step up de Caires, Hollman and anyone else from the Seconds. Start the season with a clear slate, but give all younger players the benefit of doubt, as they can improve. Start them with one credit to their name against the old brigade, and see which of them can partner Max as opener.

Sadly, on our current squad, we will be still be in Div 2 this time next year, so the Lawman will have it all to do in 2022.

Red Ball - T20
We became a harder team to beat, is about best to sum it up. The tie against Kent demonstrates the virtue of taking the game to the last over. However, in the instances of both games against the Mexicans, we didn’t, and some form of reversion to previous type occurred against Hampshire (bet Phil Catchpole was pleased, though....) chasing a low score, while we took Sussex to the last over to take down our 165 - 5, which they reached with 7 down at the end. A bit more dash when batting might have made more difference there, and placed more strain on their lower order’s run making ability.

Continued improvement is on the cards, I feel. We now have a core squad, and we can build on every player knowing their own game and role in the side, and learning from this season. The T20 format is fairly formulaic, and it can therefore be adapted to and worked with.

Improvement tends to be exponential, so I am looking forward to us being in the frame on Finals Day.

Re: 2021
chunkyinargyll 07 October, 2020 15:05
Harris and Finn both have a contract until this time next year, so unless they opt to leave for pastures new, we are contractually obliged.

I don't think any senior capped players are out of contract, so departures may be non existent.

Dan Lincoln is out of contract. Would it be harsh to make a judgement based on not many opportunities? It's just that he seems to be the only one out of contract who might be vulnerable.

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