Northampton Saints
News: My Perfect Cousin?
By Phil Hollis
July 15 2010
In a bid to ease the boredom of the off-season, COYSDC editor, Phil Hollis, talks rugby union, technology and (eek!) football...
MY PERFECT COUSIN?
Well, here we are, in the deepest of the deep, dark depths of the off-season and the start of the Aviva Premiership season seems a long, long way away.
As a rule I enjoy most sport so I’ve passed my time watching some cricket, a little golf and a couple of nut-cases named Mahut and Isner at Wimbledon. Very pleasant. Of course, the sporting behemoth which has dominated the back pages has been the football World Cup which I thought would just pass me by but having a couple of round-ball loving basket-cases for friends, I was slowly drawn into the event.
First things first, this is not intended as an article about football per se. It’s just my look at the biggest sport in the world and what I believe it can learn from its 15 man a-side gobby cousin. There seemed to be so many incidents in South Africa which could have been handled so much better if the football authorities had adopted some of the practices employed in rugby union. So, where to start?
Let’s kick-off with one of the basics. Timing. I was listening to Radio 5 Live’s broadcast of Portugal’s goalless bore-fest with Brazil and the commentators were struggling (like me) to stay awake. The fourth official held up the “added minutes” board at the end of normal time and indicated perhaps another four. “Lord, help us!” cried Alan Green, “just put us out of our misery!” It’s a situation we see time and time again in the high profile matches with managers bemoaning either, a) the lack of extra minutes or b) where in heaven’s name did they find that time from? Surely, the simple solution is the countdown clock as used in our rugby Premiership and also Rugby League. The referee signals time off and on for all major incidents and everyone knows where they stand.
This is going to be all about technology isn’t it? Probably. Frank Lampard scores a stunner just before half-time against Germany to bring a poor England team level only for it to be ruled no-goal as Sir deems it hasn’t crossed the line. In fact, the only people in the Free State Stadium who didn’t see the goal was good were the officials. But here’s the thing. How long after the ball had crossed the line had we seen replays telling us it was a legitimate score – 10 seconds? Opponents of the video referee system argue that it would take too much time to get the play reviewed. Tosh! Sir peeps “time off” and we go upstairs. There is so much at stake at the highest level of all sport that if systems are available then they must be used.
The video referee would also have come into play when Ghana’s hearts
were broken by the cynical goal-line hand ball of Uruguay striker Luis
Suarez. Yes, the player was sent-off, yes Ghana had a
penalty opportunity but isn’t there a case for a penalty goal to be awarded in
instances such as this? A player has illegally stopped a certain goal (insert “try”
for Union) and the
referee should have the power to punish the offender accordingly. It’s not as
if the penalty try law is used that often. How many times did Northampton
Saints earn such a try last season – 3, perhaps 4 times is my uneducated guess. A similar law in football would be used even less, perhaps once a season.
Of course, the video referee isn’t perfect, just ask Soane Tonga’huia.
The other thing that caused me to start thinking about this article was the Final itself and how it would have been refereed differently in a Union match. I refer of course to the sin-bin. Howard Webb had a thankless task given Holland’s thuggish tactics against a Spain side trying to play football. Indeed, I expect to see a grubby lorry bearing the legend “I wish my wife was as dirty as the Dutch football team” any day now. Mr Webb had booked five players within the first 28 minutes of the game but his use of the cards didn’t seem to change the mindset of the men in orange. My argument would be that if the first two of those bookings had led to a ten-minute spell in the sin-bin then perhaps the game wouldn’t have spun away from Mr Webb’s grasp. Don’t get me wrong, I think he did a fine job. I just believe that being able to give offenders a spell on the sidelines would have made his life easier.
It seems to me that, unlike Rugby Union, League, cricket and tennis, Association Football is averse to change. FIFA President Sepp Blatter argues that football should be the global sport, played under the same rules everywhere from Wembley to depths of Papua New Guinea. It’s a noble aim but it is just not practical at the top end of the game. If someone (me) for whom football is not “a matter of life and death” (it’s far less important than that) can see the need for innovation then why can’t the authorities? In Rugby Union, the high-end matches make full use of the technology available but if it's an Old Clungefarts XV taking on another local side on the Racecourse of a weekend then they just get on with it and nobody complains.
To end, and for the sake of balance, I’ve been trying to think of what Rugby Union can learn from football to improve it as a game and spectacle and, do you know what, I can’t think of anything.
Discuss.
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
Stumbleupon15/07/2010 14:19
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
One thing rugby union can learn from soccer, in particular the FIFA World Cup..... ban vuvuzelas!
15/07/2010 15:48
Flip side is you can't have it boths ways and which do you prefer to have priority - club or country? Premiership title or World Cup?
There does appear to be so much more play acting in football now than when I used to watch it more regularly. The players get so good at it leaping in the air at the merest contact and sometimes when there is no contact at all. Sadly for me the winning team weere one of the worst offenders and they got away scot free.
It is so difficult to spot in real time so the referees have an impossible task. But often when the replay was shown it could be clearly seen that there had been play acting.
A possible answer would be a citing officer. Review after the match and hand out bans and fines to offenders. Might help prevent what I feel is one of the biggest blights on the game.
Saint til I die
Quote:Mattysaint
The national football team doesn't play at the same time as the club sides. Can you imagine what Ferguson would be like if England started taking Rooney away in November, February and March to play in a series of internationals while United were fighting for the league title?
Flip side is you can't have it boths ways and which do you prefer to have priority - club or country? Premiership title or World Cup?
Ah, but the Premiership (RU) has the play-offs which means that it is not imperative to finish top of the pile at the end of the regular season. Well done, Chelsea, you have finished top but now you have to play Spurs for the right to play the winners of Utd or Arsenal for the title. Can't see that happening...
Quote:Howlin said,
A possible answer would be a citing officer. Review after the match and hand out bans and fines to offenders. Might help prevent what I feel is one of the biggest blights on the game.
Very good idea Malc but can you just imagine the lawyers for the overpaid prima donnas jumping up and down with un-righteous indignation when the citing officer sent in his report. The subsequent uproar would be worse than a Scouse wedding!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:07:15:17:15:51 by Stockers.
In the soccer world cup it was all about who was going to or was leaving which premiershgip soccer teams.
The "was it a goal or wasn't argument" can be solved without the use of video evidence. Follow ice hockeys' example with a light on top of the goal. When the puck breaks the planes of the goal line, posts and cross-bar, the light is illuminated. sensors in the posts detect the passing of ONLY the puck over the goal line. The technology exists to change the sensors to recognise the shape and density of a football, as it's already been developed for one sport.
The reason i choose this is because i have to ask at what point do you blow the whistle and call time off? The ball is technically still in play,and no foul has occured, plus one team loses the advantage of possession...
If England were awarded a re-start, where would it be from and how many german players would now be behind the ball and able to defend?
Then, how do you re-start the game? drop ball from where? Maybe the germans were in counter-attack mode with so many english in advanced positions - they're penalised whilst the officials "go upstairs".
The beauty of the TMO in rugby is that when it's used, the passage of play is dead, i.e. the ball is over the line.
In football, you're wanting to stop a game when the ball is still in play and that's where the real arguments will start...
With regards to the equivalent of the penalty try, you're talking too much common sense for that idea to be taken seriously.
Soccer has addressed the cheats charter in this instance by saying in their laws that if the ball has not crossed the line, it's a penalty kick and a red card for the perpetrator. If the ball HAS crossed the line, it's a goal and a yellow card.
They see those sanctions,i.e. denying a clear scoring OPPORTUNITY as a red card offence, as justice. I agree with you, i'd like to see the goal (in instances like that) being awarded and a red card as well. The problem is managers would reach a state of apoplexy in an instant - they'd see it as a double punishment...
Ginger - The Colour of Sexual Rejection
Quote:GP
they'd see it as a double punishment...
But that's only half what they deserve!
Good Piece Phil
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
Saint til I die
I agree with GP relating to goal-line technology, within 4 seconds of the ball going over the line the Germans had broken away and nearly scored. They would have been livid if play had been stopped and the ball hadn't crossed the line.
The penalty goal seems sensible.
As for sin bins, I cannot agree. When teams lose a player now they almost always go into defensive mode and put all their players behind the ball. It makes for boring spectacles and would be even worse if it was happening throughout the game.
One thing that might improve attitudes of the players is to supply the referees with microphones as in rugby. It may be ugly at first but hopefully the players would be shamed into showing more restraint to the ref.
Quote:GP wrote...
The "was it a goal or wasn't argument" can be solved without the use of video evidence. Follow ice hockeys' example with a light on top of the goal. When the puck breaks the planes of the goal line, posts and cross-bar, the light is illuminated. sensors in the posts detect the passing of ONLY the puck over the goal line. The technology exists to change the sensors to recognise the shape and density of a football, as it's already been developed for one sport.
I was vaguely aware of this technology didn't realise that it had been incorporated in top-level sport. Knocks my theory into a coked hat, especially with regard to the ball in play being "dead". Thank you.
Quote:hoddros
As for sin bins, I cannot agree. When teams lose a player now they almost always go into defensive mode and put all their players behind the ball. It makes for boring spectacles and would be even worse if it was happening throughout the game.
One thing that might improve attitudes of the players is to supply the referees with microphones as in rugby. It may be ugly at first but hopefully the players would be shamed into showing more restraint to the ref.
I take your point and agree about the "miked-up" ref. Indeed, it's something that I should have addressed in my article. However, surely it's better for a team to go defensive rather than continuing kicking seven bells of whatever out of the opposition.
Penalty goals would not work in football imo. Controversy would reign supreme, referees would be under intolerable pressure from both sides, and it wouldn't prevent the Suarez incident from happening. It works in rugby, but the culture is entirely different in football. Suarez was sent off, a penaly awarded and Suarez banned from the semi - I think that's good enough.
The ice hockey example is interesting to resolve the goal line debate, or the incident could just be reviewed whenever the ball next went dead, maybe allied to some sort of challenge system as per American Football. I also think key offsides could be included in this. I don't think it would be that difficult to do - and what does it matter if referrals or video technology is not available on Hackney Marshes?
Don't like sin binning either, I think play acting to get others booked would just intensify. Howard Webb should have issued second yellows & reds at least once in the first half and was too soft (incredible considering the number of cards he ended up giving out)!
Referee mics have been tried before in football (early nineties if I remember with David Ellery). Tony Adams certainly wasn't shamed into modifying his language!!
I saw the Meath-Louth Leinster final as well! And they have judges behind the goal as well - something else FIFA thinks may cure goal line controversy!!
Agree football timing would be better if they used the rugby system of timing.
And you know what, I can't think of anything rugby can adopt from football either!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:07:16:00:20:37 by DorsetSaint.
16/07/2010 11:20
Quote:Phil.Quote:Mattysaint
The national football team doesn't play at the same time as the club sides. Can you imagine what Ferguson would be like if England started taking Rooney away in November, February and March to play in a series of internationals while United were fighting for the league title?
Flip side is you can't have it boths ways and which do you prefer to have priority - club or country? Premiership title or World Cup?
Ah, but the Premiership (RU) has the play-offs which means that it is not imperative to finish top of the pile at the end of the regular season. Well done, Chelsea, you have finished top but now you have to play Spurs for the right to play the winners of Utd or Arsenal for the title. Can't see that happening...
Sorry for late reply! Doesn't the removal of key players durng a season put even a top 4 finish at risk though? For the EPS players they could be missing 4-6 Prem games during international windows next season, plus enforced rest weekends. That is a big chunk of the season, potentially 24-30 points or more at stake. Huge respect to Tigers who manage to overcome this every year.
Not trying to be contorversial, honest! Just thought this might be one possible negative from rugby's side of things compared to football.
Flip side is England RU made it to last 2 world cup finals, winning one. So again it's down to preference of club or country.
Firstly, I'm old-school and therefore believe that the side that has finished top of the league should be crowned accordingly & not have to play a further two games to win it. They may have finished the season several points clear, only losing one or two games along the way and finishing several points clear of the rest, only to see 4th place snatch the title.
Secondly, and I think this could very much impact on the Saints, the loss of so many key players during the AI's & 6N, even if none of them pick up injuries, could be telling come the end of the season. I really think that all Premiership fixtures should be cancelled whenever theres a clash with Internationals, but I guess this would only add to an already congested fixture timetable.
16/07/2010 14:06
now it's going to be strictly policed (other than for multi-nationals perhaps) wisps seem to have drastically reduced their contribution and tigs have somewhat reduced theirs
The international weeks also give other players within clubs squads opportunity for game time and that's no bad thing either.
The playoffs are a good point though, I suppose rugby would be better following football's lead and not have any - not going to happen though!!
I believe that this was trialled a couple of years ago (on the Channel Islands, perhaps?) but is there any reason whatsoever why the football authorities can't crack down hard on the swearing at referees and the constant back-chat by players? If the Union law of only the captain being allowed to talk to Sir was rigorously enforced (ten yard penalty for first offence, yellow card/sin-bin thereafter) then surely the "spectacle" of the round ball game would be improved...
I'd instigate 10 yards for every infraction, allowing the ball to end up on the edge of the penalty area. That way, a direct free kick can still be taken - anything inside the box is either penalty (direct) or for obstruction (indirect).
Nearly every team has someone who is a free-kick specialist, so being a mouthy so-and-so could end up playing into their hands (or should that be feet?).
The authorities will claim their "respect" campiagn works, but when you look at how many referees are leaving the game and how many clubs can't play because of lack of officals, there has to be something done.
I'm a PE teacher and it bugs me to have to tell players in school teams, that we are NOT what we see on tv.
I think Basketball sets the standard here - you can foul out of the game with 5 personal fouls,and also with only 2 technical fouls.
Technical fouls include verbal abuse of the officals and opponents, questioning decisions, throwing the ball away and such like. It's a huge deterrent when you stop play and inform the teams the first time something like this happens. Immediately,standards of behaviour improve.
The biggest problem anyone has is being able to reach the decision makers when they say there is nothing wrong with their sport. It's heads in the sand at HQ...
Ginger - The Colour of Sexual Rejection
Saint til I die
More Northampton Saints headlines
- Weekend Rugby 15th August
- TV Rugby 7th - 11th August
- End of season how the squad was used analysis
- This weeks rugby 1st - 5th July
- Weekend Rugby 27th/28th June
- Weekend Rugby 19th - 20th June 2026
- Weekend Rugby 12th - 14th June 2026
- Weekend Rugby 5th - 7th June 2026
- Weekend Rugby 29th - 31st May 20206