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Back in White - South Africa 3 Day

First ball intro
By Grockle
June 29 2008
So the Twenty20 is over for another year and we are back in the true colour of cricket against the tourists on a Sunday. Decent crowd and the first part of the new stand open to the public -changes are coming people and this may not be part of the future in the brave new world so enjoy it while you can....

v South Africa (Tourist)@ Taunton 29 June 2008

Scorecard

White clothing, international batsmen at the crease, an abundance of Platinum members in the crowd and a full press box.  It must be a dream!  But no, it's the tourist game on a Sunday.

The Somerset promise of the Bok's versus the cream of "English" Somerset youth is about right but not what we expected entirely. The side that lost the toss and have been put in the field is;

Edwards, Suppiah, Hildreth, Trego, Durston, Kieswetter, Jones, Turner, Caddick, Munday AND (fanfare) de Bruyn

I have absolutely nothing against Zander but I fail to understand the logic of this.  No Banks (injury?).  No Gazzard with the gloves (with Craig as a batsman)? No Blackwell (poor Twenty20 does he need to rest really)? But we have chosen a South African - must be because the skipper doesn't have faith in the backbone of the front five (may have a point but wouldn't Ian have been a consideration as well - too many spinners perhaps).

So we field and Neil Mckenzie faces his ex-teammate AC to start the game.  The following conversation oculd have taken place.

"Hello Neil welcome back to Taunton.  I won't be facing you in the Tests but why don't you go and ponder your strategy for those games while I get my teeth into the rest of you.  Oh I'm Andy Caddick by the way".  Neil seems to agree with this suggestion, puts his pad in front of the ball AND the wicket and goes LBW first ball of the morning.

Somersets Andrew Caddick celebrates taking the wicket of South Africas Neil McKenzie during a Tour M

Caddick says goodbye to McKenzie

It all looks promising but Amla and Duminy are not phased and get into their zone despite the aggression of Turner and Jones and the persistence of Caddick.  They reach 50 in the 12th and the 100 comes in the 21st (very slow over rate) along with Amla's 50 (63 balls with 8 fours).  Munday is introduced at the OP in the 22nd and Duminy follows his partner off 67 balls (with the same number of boundaries).  Fair first over by the young guy - one wide delivery gives the batsman his half ton.

South Africas Hashim Amla             South Africas Jean-Paul Duminy reaches his fifty during a Tour Match at the County Ground, Taunton.

Amla                                                                         Duminy 

By the 29th and lunch the tourists look ominously in touch on 136 and we don't look like worrying them in overcast cnditions where we'd expect the likes of Willoughby et al to be worrying these blokes.  I know it's that kind of game but it doesn't look that much of a contest at the moment.

After lunch Mike M stays on at the OP but it's that man Caddick who gets the next one - as the Soput African press are waxing lyrically about Jean-Paul Duminy, the big man sends one down the leg side which the batsman flips and Craig Kieswetter takes in a full length dive at 146.  The man goes for 64 and we welcome Jaques Kallis to the middle.

Amla has taken a real shine to MM though and just after the 150 comes up in the 33rd he opens up at the spinner.  The six ovedr wide long on is followed by three consecutive boundaries and a century for the batsman (105 balls 15 fours and that six), 18 off the 34th and a deep hole for our young slowie to get himself out of. 

South Africas Amla 100

Caddick shows the way with a maiden in the 35th but the SA batsmen milk him for another 9 in the 36th and by the 40th, with the captain showing faith in the man the tourists have pushed the score past 200 as Kallis also gives the young man some welly.  201 up at the end of the 39th.

Arul Suppiah ends the pain of Munday's 10 for over 70 in the 41st but the two batsmen continue on with Kallis simply taking over where Duminy left off and by the end of the 53rd they are looking at passing the 25 mark.  The only question is will it take kallis from 48 over the half ton or will it simply add to Amla's move towards 150 (although he has taken the back seat since Kallis arrived).  It is still 247 for 2 at the end of the 54th but it all seems inevitable, even though we now have Mark Turner and Steffan Jones working away for us.  Suppiah's spell was a very creditable 6 overs for 16.

The 250 comes at 54.4 overs courtesy of a sublime four to Kallis splitting the fielders with real precision. His fifty is almost identical to the first two of the innings - 64 balls and 8 fours. 35 over to go and a score well into the 300's is looking very very possible.

South Africas Jacques Kallis

Jacques opens his shoulders

At Tea things have gone almost entirely South Africa's way and they have moved on to 274 for 2 with 30 overs of the day to go.  Amla is on 136 and Jacques Kallis has moved to 67.  Based on that kind of score, 400 by the end of the day is definitely on.

The 274 has turned into 330 plus by the 70th and moving Suppiah to the River end and then Munday seems to make no difference.  Amla moves past 150 and at 341 Kallis moves past 100 with a ton off 125 balls with 13 fours and a six (seems like more than that actually).  A good workout for the batsmen?  You might say that while I.......

So...who wants the ball?  with 350 up and two batsmen into three figures Caddick introduces....Wes to the attack!  Just what you want, your first bowl to two men seeing it like a baloon.  To give him credit he probably has Kallis dropped by Kieswetter off his second ball and Amla strolls down the wicket on his last ball and is run out by Zander de Bruyn for 172 - the highest score by an SA batsman against Somerset.  362 for 3!!  Amla called as the ball went to backward point but he sort of realised that he wasn't going to get there and he gave up.  Then again, when you've cracked 172 you've done your job for the day I suppose.  But well done Wes and Caddy for stupendous strategic changes of field and bowling. Great innings from Amla one has to say (217 balls with 22 fours and 1 six).  Ashwell Prince, the South African captain for today comes out with his side well on top in this game and Kallis looking to pile on even more before the end of the day.

It seems that Wes has shut down one end and now Jonah is getting the hammer - though Kallis is trying real hard to hit anything near him (or far away for that matter).  Unfortunately he keeps on connecting.  But Mr Durston is keeping them down at the OP so the captain brings Arul back at the River in the hope of more of the same because with 12 overs to go they are 13 from the magic 400.

After 80 overs they haven't quite made it - the score is 398.  The captain brings himself on for the 81st over with Kallis looking to finish off the day by passing Amla's new record of an individual score of 172.  The first ball goes to the boundary, sending Jacques over 150 (153 balls 2 sixes and 21 fours) and the Boks over 400.  Caddy isn't particularly impressed with this and puts a bit more in.  the third balls of the over rears unexpectedly and belts Kallis on the point of the elbow....very painful.  However, after a bit of sorting he is fit to continue and then proceeds to smack Caddick's next two balls for 4. But that looks like a bit of bravado because we next see Mr K walking off to the pavilion.  It seems that it is just bruised - no structural damage - but that announcement came very quickly so one wonders how much they've been able to assess and it could be a problem.

So...Kallis off with 160 at 410 for 3 and De Villiers replaces him for the time being at least to finish the day against Caddick and the returning Turner at the OP.  The big question is can the 'gold and greens' get over 450 before the end of the day.  At the end of the 87th it looks highly likely with 442 up and 3 sets of six to go.

As an aside...I took a wander over to the new members stand that has replaced the River Stand.  It holds about 450 and is fully open now. not a bad view ether really.  The only problem with it is that you cannot get around the back of it so people will have to walk across the front to get to any other part of the Brewhouse side but it does give you a very nice view of play, especially frm the higher seats.

Anyway, a fairly decent over from Turner provides 4 dot balls and then one four before ending with a dot.  446 with 12 balls to go.  450 will come and Somerset must view the day in perspective.  We faced a big batting side and did not hold them.  Too many short balls, Mike Munday did not contain from the OP (he looked better from the River but by then the damage was done) and at times served up boundary fodder.  Amla batted beautifuly, but was allowed to, we really missed the accuracy of Willoughby and Thomas.  The younger players have to learn the lesson that presently thay are not pushing to replace the four seam attack of Caddick, Willoughby, Phillips and Thomas.  We have yet to see what the batting line-up has to say for itself.

The 450 arrives off Caddick's third ball of his last over and Turner finishes off the proceeddings from the OP.  They have stuck to their tasks manfully and heads have not dropped noticably but they've also been given a lesson in where not to bowl to good batsmen on a batting wicket - a hard day in the cricket academy.  Let's hope lessons have been learned.  456 for 3 (4) at the end of the 90th.  Welcome to the real world gentlemen.

 

 

 

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Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 12:14

Back in White - South Africa 3 Day

Somerset vs South Africa.
Posted by: VictheFish (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 05:18

Welcome back to:

real cricket in whites.

Andy Caddick.

Neil MacKenzie.

Neil meet Andy, oh ...

That didn't last long!

VtF.

Re: Somerset vs South Africa.
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 05:30

Beat me to the punch, VtF!

Re: Somerset vs South Africa.
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 06:05

It's overcast and they are 61 for 1 now. only 15 overs in the first 90 minutes - gonna be a looooong day. Frontpage will be up and going in about 20 minutes.



(Sm72)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 07:22

136 for 1 at lunch and it looks like a really long day in the field unless somene gets a breakthrough. It isn't going to be Zander, it doesn't look like it's going to be Mark or Jonah so it's down to Andrew C or Mike Munday....and that doesn't look all that likely on this morning I'm afraid.



(Sm72)

The team against South Africa
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 08:07

I like Brian Rose’s idea for the team against South Africa, playing the young guns as he calls them, even all our younger players are experienced players.

Andy Caddick could captain the team if fit, the team may include; Hildreth, Trego, Suppiah, Durston, Turner, Edwards, Francis, and Munday.

If no Kolpak players and he intend to rest the senior players who else would we like to see play with those mentioned above?

This is from the other site.



http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Smiley-photographer-animationTony.gif

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 08:22

Alley?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 08:32

Though not the youngest of guns, Steffan Jones should be given a chance to state his case for inclusion in the CC side.

Yes, and let's see young Alley, given that his beloved grandgather is no longer available.

I love the thought of that youngest of all guns, ARC,leading his charges into the fray. What an inspiration that will be.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 08:43

Is anyone else still in the positon of seeing "Turner" on the list and thinking first of Rob?
Had to chuckle at the thought of Noddy amongst the young guns.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 08:53

FE: you can therefore identify with my first reaction to seeing the name Alley.

And I think Gazzard should be given a game and Kieswetter given a rest.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Palairet (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 09:16

I agree with LoL that Kieswetter should be given a rest.

After all, AGod in his earlier thread on this very topic did suggest that Somerset should "Somerest"!

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 09:24

I hope you're not just agreeing with the last speaker a la Giles Clark, Prof.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 09:32

I'm looking forward to seeing what Mark Turner can do against South Africa. It goes without saying that I also want to see AC back in rhythm and primed for the Durham game. Not sure about Saturday's forecast, though, looks a bit iffy, maybe?

But if AC and Turner can both come through the SA game with good results, then we should have a really exciting attack to take up to Chester LS. Charl would join them, obviously, and on recent exploits I would suggest that the fourth pace bowling place (assuming Pete is not fit to bowl) should go to Alfonso.

Even if Pete isn't fit to bowl he should possibly be considered as a specialist batsman for the Durham game.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 10:05

I do indeed identify with that LoL.
Excellent suggestions, one and all.
AC and MT sharing the new ball is something to which I think we've all been looking forward.
Gazzard definitely deserves a go; and Craig definitely deserves a rest.

Sow we're agreed then:
Francis, Edwards, Hildreth, Durston, Suppiah, Trego, Alley, Gazzard, Turner, Munday, Caddick (capt).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:24:10:20:51 by Frome Exile.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 10:16

It doesn`t matter about Saturday`s forecast, AG, because the match doesn`t begin then. Fine weather predicted for Sunday, when it does start.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 10:44

I think we've just rendered the estimable Mr Rose redundant.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Palairet (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 11:01

Apparently, South Africa are holding a pre - tour Press Conference at the County Ground, Taunton on Thursday at 1.00 p.m.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 12:34

Probably to announce their surrender ahead of their match against that brilliant team we've selected.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 14:51

If you put numbers to names it gives you an idea where the gaps are;

1. Edwards
2. Francis
3. Suppiah
4. Hidreth
5. Trego
6. Durston
7. Gazzard
8. Jones
9. Caddick
10. Turner
11. Munday

Oh there aren't any!! That's yer side then! Doesn't look that bad actually.



(Sm72)

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 15:03

I'm not certain that Jonah will play. He and Caddy were scheduled to have played a 50 over second XI game yesterday.

Whether or not Jonah plays might depend on whether or not Pete is able to bowl (and whether Mr Rose wants him to bowl.)

If Pete is going to bowl, I wouldn't be surprised if we found a place for somebody like Robin Lett?

p.s. I don't know about anyone else, but i am exceptionally glad that we have a 'buffer,' game between the hit and giggle and the resumption of the proper cricket. The reason for this is that I would like any first-team players that do play versus SA to have a chance to blow the 20:20 impetuosity out of their systems.

Incidentally, I'm also not totally sure that Zander will not play. After his ton vs Yorks, there's every reason to assume that Mr Rose will view him as a first-choice player for the Durham game, but he's had very little time in the middle since the last CC game and so, logically, it might make sense to give him a game?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 16:15

I think it is highly likely that Jones will play and I'll be very surprised if they pick a kolpak over an 'english' player for this game.

If anything I'd expect experience to come in the form of Ian Blackwell rather than Zander if anyone



(Sm72)

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 16:24

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Cricket South Africa might have some say as to whether Charl and zander can play gainst them?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 16:26

I doubt it. But, if they did, their preference would, presumably be for a tough work-out? If they had a vote, their vote would therefore be for Charl to play?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2008 18:21

I'm glad you used the " "over the word English Grockle as we don't want to offend Steff do we?
Imagine call someone from Llan English.
Whatever next?
Gareth Edwards Scottish?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 25/06/2008 09:16

After much consideration then I've decided that, unless they show really well vs SA, I'd probably leave out either Neil or James vs Durham (in favour of Peter Trego.)

If NE was left out, I'd move JL up to open and move everyone else up one place, with Pete at six. If JH was left out, I'd move Zander and Ian up one place each, with Pete at six. This is assuming that Pete is not yet fit to bowl, with him playing as a specialist batsman instead.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 25/06/2008 09:18

It would be better, though, if Pete was fit to bowl. At the minute, subject to performances vs SA and Pete not being fit to bowl. I'm imagining an attack of Caddick, Turner, Willow and Thomas. This would appear to constitute an overly long tail but it's, nevertheless, the bowling attack that I would most like to see for the Durham game (albeit that's based on the idea of Caddy as he was last season and Turner as he was vs Lancs at OT.)

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 25/06/2008 09:45

Neil tends to do well against the tourists. It's where he first made a name for himself.

Not sure assessing him in a knock opening with John Francis is the same as looking at him in an opening partnership with Marcus though.

I think John's performance would have to come into that analysis as well. It's a pivotal innings for him I think.



(Sm72)

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 25/06/2008 10:00

Well, these tourists are likely to have a pretty damn good pace attack out. And we'll be facing a pretty damn good pace attack at Chester LS too, so if Neil can make runs against SA, it should stand him in pretty good stead for Chester LS.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: The Diamond ruled ok (IP Logged)
Date: 27/06/2008 18:50

Their pace attack will be fueled by energy drinks shipped in from South Africa .

I delivered them to the Holiday Inn this evening in Taunton.

Overtime over watching Sex beat Surrey at the Oval,what a martyr to the coin I am .

Nice hotel that one,bit expensive though , I'm more a B&B man myself.

Having travelled down from London in pouring rain the sun came out as I got over the County boundary on the M5 into Somerset . Let's hope the weather stays good for the course of your game . Not much chance really , it is Glasto weekend after all.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 28/06/2008 18:03

Cheers Diamond and good luck to you lot in Uxbridge quite soon

So
Edwards
Suppiah
Hildreth
Durston
Trego
Banks
Kieswetter
Jones
Caddick
Turner
Munday

Interesting. No Gazzard, No Francis No South Africans for us No Smith for them

Interesting front 3.



(Sm72)

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: fRed (IP Logged)
Date: 28/06/2008 18:55

Who's this So opening the batting?



Cricket's the winner.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 01:40

Our first Chinese Kolpack?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 02:22

Surprised there's no John Francis - is he injured?

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 03:47

A needle pulling thread maybe?
Doh,maybe I'm wrong again.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 04:37

James, you're a little ray of sunshine.
Me, I'm off to make a cup of coffee.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 04:55

Don't go to far Bobs.
Me,I'm having tea.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 05:09

Is it far, to far?
Far too far.
Far too far, to far?
Yes: to far, far too far!

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 06:21

So, so, FE.

Re: The team against South Africa
Posted by: samaithai (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 07:21

Cricinfo has De Bryun playing but no Banks. Have they got it wrong again

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 07:51

This looks like a very strong South African team, with probably only Smith and Steyn missing from the side for the First Test, assuming they are both fit.

It's not quite our best side... and it's beginning to show, but it will be great exposure for the young guns.

And now the genius of LoL has struck again, for as I wrote the above Duminy was out to the bowling of our most promising colt.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 08:27

As Banks / de Bruyn (whichever) and Suppiah seem to have bowled already, I would venture that Trego still isn't fit to bowl - a shame as I think the CC team needs him bowling as well as batting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:29:08:28:14 by SheptonPaul.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 08:28

The press pack reckon that we'll have a good work out against their pace attack!! They look very very fast



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:29:09:23:30 by Grockle.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 09:24

What's more they'll have a decent number of runs to bwl with as well!! This is going to be a big total unless something fun damental alters quite quickly.



(Sm72)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 15:45

Photo's from first day

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7581/nkckenzielbwcaddickfirsmi5.jpg

N McKenzie out lbw first ball of the day off Caddick

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/7472/jkallishitonelbobycaddium1.jpg

J Kallis hit on the elbow off Caddick's bowling.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/9494/jkallisretiredhurtafterks9.jpg

J Kallis retired hurt on 160.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6950/jduminyctkieswetterbldctb7.jpg

J Duminy ct Kieswetter bld Caddick off this delivery

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1287/jduminyctkieswetterbldcbj4.jpg

Congratulations to Caddick for Duminy's wicket.



http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Smiley-photographer-animationTony.gif

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: VictheFish (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 16:55

No two ways about it,

these Yarpies are seriously good, are here to make a point (despite quotas) and the very comfortable and possibly complacent England squad really need to have a long, hard look at themselves to see if they really can walk the walk.

If I'm not too much mistaken, if these 'Lions' have taken their collective eye off the ball to gaze on the spendours of Mr. Stanford's coffers then thay have not only given up the right to wear the cap, but they will also screw up this Summer.

Regardless of the possible Captaincy dilemmas that may result from a diabolically slow over-rate (hiding p*ss poor decision making), this team seems unable to focus on what it has been set to achieve. Is it because of Indian distractions ("I could've made a million in just six weeks," says the new England Captain just weeks before his appointment.

No doubt he'd not be around if his charges had to go into battle around the time of the IPL circus. Nor if he had to lead a team into Basra - "sorry fellas, just got to go and parade a few horses around a palace and sh*g a few models. BRB."

I digress. Collingwood, take him or leave him, is at least a leader who deserves some respect. In his absence we have very little - period, as the Americans say.

I really think that England could take a seriously bloody nose this summer. Regardless of format, unless we take the initiative and get some momentum going I think we could see ourselves slipping down the rankings whilst still eyeing up dollar signs ...

But then again, I'm always pessimistic and the best England seam bowler will blow away the Yarpies tomorrow no worries and our Second string will rack up 800 for s*d all.

VtF.

S.S.A.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:29:18:48:01 by VictheFish.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 17:30

Are you OK, Vic? This outburst seems a little out of character?!

Yes, I think England will struggle against the South Africans, largely because they're much better cricketers than our guys and nothing to do with any money they may be offered in India or the Caribbean.

So, yes, KP might have made a million in India in the spring - so what? He's quite right to have said what you quote him as saying...it's not his (or any of the other players - why is KP always singled out!) fault that some fools want to offer them huge amounts of money to play cricket.

The South Africans may beat us this summer - I hope they don't - but this won't necessarily be because our players are "eyeing up dollar signs". It might just be because, for all the promise of Bell, Cook, Broad and Co, we're just not good enough yet.

Vic (et al) - lay off the players! Please don't convict them of doing something that they may not be guilty of doing. The bit about Basra and the models is seriously out of order, IMHO.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: VictheFish (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 18:45

SP,

sorry, sometimes I get a bit passionate and my earthy, combative nature comes out when it shouldn't.

I really do think that six months of (non-entirely convincing) games against the Kiwis has actually masked some failings in our national team.

I still don't think we're anywhere nearer a settled keeper, who knows his role and why he was picked.

I still think that some of our bowlers get by at this level of opposition, when truly world-class performers should be absolutely dominating the games. Sidebottom and Broad can only bowl so many overs, Anderson and the others are hardly lining up to knock them over consistently.

Against SA I really hope we do well, but I'm not so sure that we have the batsmen to fight a rearguard action in case Cook and Strauss and the out of form Vaughn go early.

In 2005 we were led by Banger, no two ways about it, and scored heavily and quickly. The SA line-up seems to do the same. I'm afraid we don't have anything like that at present and will struggle to match them.

Unlike 2005, when the Aussies lost an H&G at the Rosebowel and then at Taunton, this lot are likely to hit the ground running, and hard at that. I really hope that I'm wrong but I can feel a summer of attrition coming on ...

I admire the Southern Hemisphere attitude to sport and can see it at Taunton week in, week out. However, I seldom really see it at national level. If we are really to maintain our status in the rankings at Test level we have to compete (and beat) these guys waiting for the true test in 2009.

However, I seriously think that the white ball and easy money may have taken the national team's eye off the ball.

VtF.

P.S. I still wouldn't go to war with KP, just don't trust him not to leave a man behind - something sacrosanct to my old lot.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 18:59

Sorry Shep. Basra and models?



(Sm72)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: VictheFish (IP Logged)
Date: 29/06/2008 19:38

SP was quoting from my earlier post Grock.

I admit I was probably in poor taste for having said it so hope that I've put things right in my most recent posting.

I think SP was defending KP (not our one) and said it was seriously out of order. Personally, I think KP's a very talented show-pony who has used the international qualification loophole to his advantage - financial, playing, and media exposure advantages all included.

However, it's been done before (even by one of our own when Mr. Hudson got hold of him!) so I can't begrudge the bloke taking advantage (KP not SP).

It just riles me when KP keeps banging on about how he could've picked up millions of dollars playing IPL instead of England games this Spring.

Yes, he works hard at things. Yes, he visualises a switch-hit in bed with his new wife. Yes, he's box-office and millions of kids try to copy him (and fail dismally but think they're great).

Sorry the cricket gets in your way Kev, we'll just bend over backwards shall we. Wonder if that's the attitude that got his kit thrown over the balcony at Trent Bridge?

I'm not senior enough to fully remember but did Allan Lamb and Robin Smith act like this? Tony Greig probably did and he's a really popular ex-England Captain nowadays!

It takes all sorts but, as a role model, I'd rather have a Banger anyday ...

VtF.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 01:54

Fair enough, Vic, no argument from me on your second post (@18:45) from a cricketing point of view. SA will be a tough bunch for England to beat, much tougher than NZ certainly. However, I suspect that Moores, Vaughan, Collingwood et al realise that - I don't think they're complacent or dreaming of millions of dollars, I think they know this is going to be a very tough couple of months for a promising but not great bunch of players.

I'm not Pietersen's greatest fan, but I do believe that he suffers from the Beckham syndrome: an undoubted very-good player who courts the media spotlight but who is also the first target when things go wrong, often not through any fault of his own. I think there are lots of lazy journalists out there who (esp while Freddie's injured) just say KP this, KP that, without checking facts, use a KP picture when they could use Vaughan or anyone else, caption it something like "KP could get / could lose millions of dollars" knowing that'll get their article printed when if they'd put "Bell / Anderson / Strauss blah blah blah", it won't have the same impact.

I feel better now, must go pick up daughter from Glastonbury!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:30:01:56:01 by SheptonPaul.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:24

I made my first trip of the season to Taunton yesterday.

The only passage of play worth reporting was that immediately after lunch. That was when Caddy bowled his second spell.

You will, I'm sure, all know what I mean when I say that he found "the Caddick length." He was hitting the pitch hard. He bowled a good line. He bowled with sufficient pace.

At one point Jacques Kallis was totally squared up by a superb Caddy delivery. I stood up and yelled 'well bowled Caddy," and applauded loudly.

Caddy glared in my general direction. No doubt, the fact that the ball had sped to the boundary at ftm irked him considerably. Personally, I could not give a monkeys.

The salient point was that here was our great fast bowler, playing the game that he needed to get under his belt, and here he was totally squaring up one of the best players in the world on the flattest pitch in the world. And that's all you really need to know about Caddy yesterday. This spell began with a leg-side strangle of Duminy. I can't tell you about the first wicket because I was detained against my will by Great Western Farcical Trains at that point (very angry.) What i saw of the rest of his first spell was him easing into it. When he took the second new-ball later he looked tired. As one would after 20+ overs after not much bowling all season. But the second spell is what you all need to know about.

He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:26

As for the rest of it?

Grist to KT's mill, I'm afraid.

And I note that Caddy had plenty to say about it afterwards,too.

I'm afraid that, when Caddy was not bowling, it was largely mind-numbing stuff as the combination of a hopeless pitch (for bowling) and a big differential in quality between their batsmen and our bowlers meant that any 'contest,' between bat and ball was purely notional.

On the one hand, this should provide a chance for batsmen to hit form again before Durham. On the other hand conditions at Chester LS are extremely unlikely to resemble those on show yesterday.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:36

As for more detailed info on those others that bowled;

Turner - erratic, I'm afraid. Did not beat the bat at all. Too much short. Too much leg-side.

Munday - When he flighted it, he looked quite good. There were two mis-hits by Amla where I thought that the fielder should have been on the fence and wasn't. Both dropped over the fielders head and went to the boundary. On both occasions the fielder was Michael's captain. Whenever he did not get the ball above the batsman's eye-line, he looked very easy to play indeed. Otherwise, far too much short stuff that was easily dispatched through the leg-side. It was a chilly day for the most part and, therefore, not ideal for bowling wrist-spin. He did manage to turn one ball past Amla's outside edge in the afternoon and had a couple of lbw shouts.

Jones - solid and steady to start with, but with no menace. Completely lost his head bowling short rubbish at Kallis in the afternoon though. Was repeatedly hooked and pulled to the boundary. I can only assume he got bored with pitching it up and being met with leaves or forward defensives. But a bowler of his experience should have known better.

Arul - accurate but no menace at all. Bowled arrows which are really dull to watch in the first-class game. Especially when there's no real turn in the wicket.

Wes - actually beat Amla all-ends up when he was on about 150 with an arm-ball in what, I think, was either his first or second ball!! Flighted the ball and had better control than Munday and more menace/interest than Arul.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:38

"Regardless of the possible Captaincy dilemmas that may result from a diabolically slow over-rate (hiding p*ss poor decision making),"

Vic's not alone in this view.

Martin Crowe has said that;

"Tactically, he's never seen a worse captain (than Collingwood.)"

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:39

I agree with Shep re Basra etc.
Can we lay off the racial slurs, too, please?

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:40

As for our prospects versus SA.

In the one-dayers we will lose to nil (not sure how many games are being played?) We will be totally out-classed.

However, I think the Test series could be extremely good and interesting and Monty could be the difference in our favour. Of course, that will only happen if the batsmen re-discover the art of long innings...

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:42

"I'm not senior enough to fully remember but did Allan Lamb and Robin Smith act like this? "

Certainly not, Vic. Robin Smith, in particular was a very popular player and a great guy.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:45

I think Jeremy Coney intimated the same on yesterday's "Cricket Writers on TV" (bit distracted by kids and housework!). We should, though, be gracious enought to concede that he's only a few games into his captaincy career, having not really served any kind of apprenticeship as a skipper.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 03:55

I'm afraid I have a somewhat different view of our prospects. I think the biggest failing of this England team (and the same is true of many England teams in many sports over the years) is its ability to play down to the level at which it anticipates its opposition operates.
We have been utterly complacent about New Zealand; twice in rapid succession. And on the first occasion (at their place) there were no Stanford millions to blame for their taking the eye off the ball.
I believe, however, that we will raise our game, and will quite possibly beat South Africa in both the Tests and ODIs, although I accept that Test victories are more likely. The fact that Freddie will almost certainly be back, and quite possibly Simon Jones also, will help. The downside is that we will then see largely the same group of players once again believeing that they are world-beaters, when they are far from the finished article.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:30:04:00:21 by Frome Exile.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 04:01

I think, FE, that one (as a team) would have to be particularly stupid to be complacent about the same opponent, in two separate series, in short succession.

I think we lost the one-dayers because we are not good enough at that form of the game. In particular, we still miss desperately a Banger type player that can take full advantage of the fielding restrictions. We can be sure that Graeme Smith, on their side, is more than capable of taking advantage of the restrictions. Indeed, Pietersen is the only player in the ODI XI that has played recently that would be a good bet, on any given occasion, to score at a run-a-ball or better, even on very good batting tracks. With an opening pair of Bell and Cook, we'd be better off preparing trick batting tracks, than flat tracks, IMO.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 04:20

Look back at the coverage, AG. 3-0 in the Tests and winning by the odd one in five ODIs was the general tenor of the predictions, from within and without "the bubble".
Yes; one would have to be very stupid: one was; and not for the first time.

As for your South African predictions: yes GS is capable of taking advantage of the fielding restrictions. He's also more than capable of falling over his stumps in the first over, particularly against swing. 25 times in 131 innings he's faced 12 balls or fewer.

KP has only scored at anything like a run a ball twice in 2008: his 50 at Napier and his 100 at Chester-le-Street. He looks so flighty at times recently that I wouldn't consider him a good (safe) bet for anything! That's part of his charm, of course! Feast or famine?

Incidentally, I fail to see why Caddick's coments in response to a particular issue with ECB instructions on preparation of the tour match pitch, should particularly be grist to KT's mill?

Another thing I think that works in our favour is the schedule; Tests first. Not only is that our stronger suit, but it means that by the time the ODIs start in August, some of their old boys will have a fair few miles on the clock, whilst some of their key one-day specialists (Gibbs, Albie Morkel, Johan Botha) could be short of meaningful cricket.

They've also lost quite a few key players from their one-day side; Pollock, Hall, Langeveldt, Kemp all played significant roles in getting them to the number one spot. This will be their first significant test since the loss of Polly and Charl.

The final thing that works in our favour is their appointment of Jeremy Snape as performance coach. He did wonders for our lot at the World Cup, didn't he! With their second warm-up game being at Lord's, I'm thinking of buying a couple of pedaloes and setting up a rental operation on the Serpentine!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:30:04:53:08 by Frome Exile.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 04:44

Caddick was deploring the fact that we had to bowl on a totally flat, pancake like pitch. It did produce, on the whole, the kind of flat game of cricket that KT was saying overly flat pitches produce.

We didn't manage to push home the win against Hants or Sussex. If the pitches for that game were anything like the one which I saw yesterday, then that would qualify as no surprise whatsoever.

It's true that we did lose to Yorks. An old-stager that was sat next to me yesterday, though, was firmly of the opinion that we should never have lost that one (he watched it all). He claimed that various committee members made known their view that it was poor to have lost on what they viewed as a very flat pitch (and, to be fair, the Yorks radio guys said throughout that the Yorks players thought the track to be very, very flat too.)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 04:46

I wasn't meaning to suggest, FE, that KP was, in any way, reliable. I was just suggesting that, when he comes off, he can at least score quickly. The central problem with too many members of our ODI side is that, even if they 'come off,' as in get a decent score, they most of them will not do so quickly.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 05:09

My point was exactly that. In the article Caddick is deploring this pitch in particular, and the ECB for decreeing that this pitch in particular should be prepared in this way. The ECB have no say in how we prepare our CC wickets, other than that they must not ber "unfit".

I had a look at the wicket on the Saturday of the Yorks game and it was surprisingly uneven. I also listened in on a conversation between another spectator and a member of the ground staff who indicated that Frosty was pretty unhappy with the amount of preparation time he'd had leading up to the game, and he wanted it flatter. It's entirely possible that under those circumstances, day two offered the worst batting conditions of the match, with the under-preparedness coming to the fore (and any underlying dampness coming out?) before the weekend of glorious sunshine flattened things out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:30:05:11:14 by Frome Exile.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 05:22

Yes, Frost said there was more moisture in the pitch for that one than he had hoped. The old-stager was talking about the SCCC 2nd innings, though, and saying it was very flat indeed by then. Apparently various committee members were dissappointed with the manner of the performance on the final day, when they thought we should comfortably have been able to bat out a draw (had we not given away wickets early in the piece.)

The story that I was told was that Banger and Neil Edwards were none too impressed with the committee's views and responded that 'they had scored many runs this season batting in an attacking manner and saw no reason to change for the 2nd dig.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 05:23

Nick Knight had an interesting take on the whole "taking advantage of the restrictions" argument the other day.
He postulated that most of England's recent ODI successes have come when we have batted relatively sedately early, kept wickets in hand, and accelerated dramatically in the last 10-20 overs. He suggested that our inconsistencies have come, to some extent, from attempting to play in a way that doesn't suit our more competent upper order players like Cook and Strauss, attempting to make good players like Bell into pinch-hitters, and generally not playing our natural game, either as individuals or as a team. Banger is not there, and we don't have a Gilchrist, but there is more than one way to post 300.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 05:30

Quote:
AGod
Apparently various committee members were dissappointed with the manner of the performance on the final day, when they thought we should comfortably have been able to bat out a draw (had we not given away wickets early in the piece.)

They were only 40 runs short of winning it, with a front-line batsman ninth man out. At what stage should they have settled for a draw? I'm not surprised Banger gave that idea short shrift.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 05:35

Also it's pretty clear from the same article
Quote:
"The day started well then all went bad from there," said Caddick.
that he doesn't share your assessment of his bowling, so I'm not surprised you got the glare. He probably thought you were being sarcastic!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 11:40

How do you know, FE, that he isn't talking about the day from the point of view of the team, as opposed to his own personal bowling?? I was certainly not alone, at all, in my assessment of Caddy's second spell. Those around me were also encouraged by that second spell.

It would be a very odd supporter that would sarcastically applaud their stalwart pace bowler for producing a brute of a delivery to Kallis!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 11:42

"At what stage should they have settled for a draw? I'm not surprised Banger gave that idea short shrift."

Apparently, the view of the committee was that a cautious approach should have been adopted, with acceleration then coming in the 2nd half of the innings, if deemed appropriate, depending on how many wickets had been lost at the time.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 12:11

“I was pleased with how things went from a personal point of view.”

On the “other,” site this is the first quote that tumbled from Caddy’s mouth, FE.

So I certainly tend to think that he was talking about things from the team perspective rather than his own personal one in that quote you were talking about. And if you’d seen the way in which things unfolded for the team as a whole, I suspect you’d agree with him.

Having said that, however, Mr Amla said that he thought 'they bowled well,' so perhaps we bowled better, as a whole, than it seemed to me, unless Amla is just being kind.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 12:17

Quote:
How do you know, FE, that he isn't talking about the day from the point of view of the team, as opposed to his own personal bowling?

Because
a) I'm assuming that the all in "all went bad" includes his bowling, and
b) the comment is followed up with "I was virtually pain-free which is nice, but I didn't have much rhythm today, which is a little annoying."

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:05

Hildreth gone for another duck unfortunately.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:06

Perhaps AC is the kind of man who is just very hard on himself?

All I can tell you is that batsmen of the calibre of Kallis and Amla did not look comfortable during his second spell. And that on a pancake of a surface.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:10

Grave news for James.

If he can make runs after lunch, then one would expect that Mr Peter Trego will have graduated to a position where he's in the first team (batting at six) even without being able to bowl.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:10

It doesn't look quite such a flat deck today, does it!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:23

Well, one wicket was a run-out and Hildreth is totally out of form anyway. Of course, those that were bowled may have been yorked too, in which case the pitch, by definition, would be irrelevant.

Meantime, Neil Edwards is extraordinary. I'd love to know whether - as I suspect - he was in no trouble at all and, apparently, in complete command until he was suddenly dismissed. That's certainly what happened at Whitgift and, with each passing innings, I become more convinced that the reason that Neil does not play one-day cricket is because they are trying to calm him down a bit in the longer stuff.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:48

Then again, having said what I just about James/Pete, it's also possible - sadly - that James will get a 2nd chance later on today.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:49

I was referring not only to the falling wickets, but also to the fact that if you take Neil's innings out of the equation, the rest are crawling along at 1.9 rpo.
I looks like Peter might remedy that somewhat.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 13:57

Yes, that's true, FE. There's also the possibility (probability?) that Jamie Cox's "scoreboard pressure," may be having an effect.

Of course, in terms of first-class cricket, somebody like Arul will not have seen anyone even approaching the quality of the SA quicks for some considerable time, given that he's been confined to the second XI.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 14:28

In an otherwise abject 2006 campaign for our SCCC batsmen, Wes Durston managed to average 38, I think it was, often coming in with the team having not very many for quite a few on the board.

And here today, against the South African quicks?

A similar situation seems to have obtained.

Wes is actually, I think 27 years of age. He can no longer qualify as ‘young,’ in pure chronological terms.

He hasn’t really had a look in, so far this season, but perhaps he should be given one?

I suspect the powers-that-be favour playing Peter Trego as a batsman, if they do not want to play James. But perhaps it would be better for Pete to focus on regaining bowling health as soon as possible? Or perhaps we’d be best off picking only three specialist bowlers – Caddy, Charl and Alfonso for the Durham game and going in with both of Pete (even as a specialist batsman) and Wes? In that scenario, Ian would be the 4th bowler and some combination of Wes and Zander would be the fifth bowler. We would have Ian at five and then could argue about which of Wes and Pete would come next, with someone as talented as Craig as low as eight.

I think that I have actually just talked myself into favouring the above line-up for the Durham game. That is the one with both Pete and Wes in it.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 14:56

Although he bowled credibly yesterday he has to make his mark with the bat from now on. He certainly wasn't a Twenty20 success with the ball and won't get a look in with it dsuring the one day Pro40. He has to make a rep as a consistent bat.

I have a lot of time for him in this role - he doesn't flap and he doesn't usually panic. He makes runs most times and he calms things down.

But is that enough in a team were there are loads of people going for the 6 to 8 positions?



(Sm72)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 15:03

Ordinarily?

Perhaps not.

But if Ian is going to bat at five due to James missing out, and if Pete can't bowl...?

Perhaps the greatest pity about this ECB-mandated road might be that Mr Rose might not pay too much attention to runs scored on it, no matter the quality of the opposing attack.

By contrast, if someone like Mark Turner had rushed out 3 or 4 South Africans on the road, then he surely would be picked for Durham.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 15:10

damn. The end might come quickly, one would imagine, now. Our tail don't have much recent experience of 90mph quicks.

Still, facing these quicks should - in terms of their speed through the air - be a good rehearsal for facing Harmison, one would have thought, even if the pitch isn't a good rehearsal?

And a swift conclusion to this innings would give Neil and James another chance to put a score on the board.

I suppose Smith might call the dogs off and bowl Harris and some part-timers more in the follow-on too.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 15:36

Resistance at the minute.

I hope SA don't bat again. I'd much rather that we had the batting practice, than them. I suppose Caddy could have some more overs, but I'd have thought that 27 would suffice?

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 16:16

I wouldn't take the follow-on for granted. Smith (or even Prince) might decide that he should bat again and let Boucher open with McKenzie as both still need some middle time.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 16:30

Do you think Harmison might suddenly get recalled for England, FE? Would be good not to have to face him at Chester LS.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 17:03

I doubt it. I can see Hoggard or Jones getting back in for Anderson, but doubt Harmison will play for England again.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 17:11

Great to see the captain banging out two sixes. Lovely stuff. But now, I fear, we will have to bowl again.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 17:25

Just looked at Duminy's record.

It's impressive to say the least - 52 in first-class cricket.

He looked decent yesterday, too, until Caddy strangled him down the leg-side.

Looks a very handy guy to have in reserve for the Safas.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 18:09

Boucher in at first drop: easy lark this capaincy!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 22:18

Interesting cricketer Jean-Paul Dominy. He is half French (not too many international cricketers can say that) and has played Minor County cricket for Devon.

He even appeared for them in the old Cheltenham & Gloucester Trophy against Lancashire at Exmouth in 2003, in the good old days when Minor counties played in the early rounds.

He was on a one-summer South African Academy contract with one of the Devon clubs at the time. I wonder if he might be interested in returning to the West Country to play county cricket one day?

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 30/06/2008 22:29

Day 2 Photo's

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/5446/wdurston2mediumwebviewgz4.jpg

A near one for Durston.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1241/asuppiahbldmmorkelmediumy4.jpg

A Suppiah unable to keep that one out off Morkel

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/585/ckieswetter4runsoffnelmdf4.jpg

C Kieswetter 4 runs off Nel's bowling.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7455/ckieswettermediumwebvieth8.jpg

C Kieswetter making somebody jump.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8377/wdurstonanelandasuppiahcp0.jpg

I like this one.

Durston and Suppiah taking a run off Nel



http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Smiley-photographer-animationTony.gif

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 01:16

Caddick is clearly angry at the pitch and the reports certainly back claims it was in the batsmen's favour.

There's no doubt SA are a very atrong side however I do worry about the demoralising impact this experience could have on our young and up and coming bowlers like Turner and Munday who got a caning.

I've often speculated one of the reasons for our dismal track record of bringing through new bowlers is that they're given little encouragement by the Taunton wicket.

You can of course argue, if they're not good enough, they're not good enough etc, however it really can't be much fun to be a bowler at Taunton, and Langer has made it very clear the kind of wickets he'd like to see..

So the question is when two of the club's most senior players are calling for more balanced wickets, why are we still getting biased pitches that risk ruining the confidence of our tyro bowlers?

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 06:15

You don't think the pitch is killing cricket do you KT?

That would never do would it?

Maybe you should wait and see what the Boks do against an England line up first before blaming it all on the pitch once again.



(Sm72)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 08:57

Oh, change the record KT, for goodness sake!
We're five points off the top of the table with half a game in hand; and we have more bowling points than batting points.
Caddick is angry at this pitch, that the ECB mandfated be prepared in the batsman's favour.
There is nothing whatsoever in this interview which hints at general discontentment with the Taunton wicket.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 09:13

I didn't note a massive batting performance by Somerset in response to the innings by one of the world's more impressive batting line-ups.



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 09:28

Perhaps not, LoL, but we did have two "silly run outs," to quote the Times. And they removed two of the relatively few senior first team players that were appearing in this match. I'd have thought we'd have managed a good 300 (at least) without the silly run-outs. SA also had a pretty silly run-out in their first-innings, too. And one other wicket was a leg-side strangle.

There is no doubt that this strip is very, very flat, or at least was when the game started.

There is also no doubt that we have yet to win at home in the CC so far this season. It may prove to be the case that we won home games last season as a result of herculean efforts from Caddy and Willow combined with a certain lack of quality and/or fighting qualities on behalf of some of our opponents. A better standard of opponent, and the threat of relegation making opponents fight harder for draws may very well mean that we will need to pick up most of our wins away from Taunton this season.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 09:40

Furthemore, the other site reports that Suppiah was yorked by Morkel (pitch irrelevant.) And the luckless James played on.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 09:51

But of course the converse argument would state that the pitch is equally irrelevant in terms of why our bowlers weren't able to put the ball in the right areas consistently enough to either york batsmen or induce false strokes.
Really, the whole question of pitches is spectacularly over-played these days IMHO. The pitches at county (not out-) grounds are all good these days; some are just quicker and bouncier than others, and those are characterisitics which the right kind of bowlers should be able to take advantage of just as much as others take advantage of sideways movement.
Even at club level, provided a pitch is consistent, batsmen should be able to play on it, and good bolwers should be able to put the ball in the right spots four or five times out of six.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:07:01:09:53:37 by Frome Exile.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 10:49

"bowlers weren't able to put the ball in the right areas consistently enough to either york batsmen."

As far as yorkers were concerned, we did bowl a handful of yorker length balls. I strongly suspect the difference was simply that Morkel probably bowled his yorkers at a pace of 90mph or close to it. Admittedly, had Turner managed an on-target yorker, he might have got through, but yorkers from Caddy and Jonah were, I think, simply insufficiently quick to defeat batsmen of such stature.

Of course, when I said that the pitch was irrelevant in terms of yorkers, I should have qualified that by saying that it's irrelevant to the specific ball that took the wicket i.e the ball, by definition, did not pitch until it was under the batsman's bat. However, on a quicker, bouncier pitch, it is easier for a bowler to force the batsmen to camp on the back foot and the yorker may then be more of a surprise than it would be on a pitch where most short balls sit up and says "hit me, please," to a batsman, as they did on Sunday.

p.s. having said that Jonah got completely carried away with short rubbish at Kallis and should have known better, I should not, in the interests, of balance that his captain was saying that 'if you can't get the batsman out, then you should at least hurt him.' Therefore, I wonder if Jonah was carrying out Caddy's "plan," to a certain extent?

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 10:59

Speaking of Caddy, the old-stager that was next to me on Sunday was telling me that he went to some benefit dinner – I assume he meant at the end of last season. He said he was talking to Parsie, whom he described as a thoroughly good egg.

He said that Parsie told him that it was his [Parsie’s] opinion, that Andrew Caddick had “never bowled better than he did last season.”

I also heard another story, the details of which I will not repeat here, which leads me to think that, subject to fitness and form, AC is unlikely to call time on his career any time soon.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 11:40

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd say that De Bruyn bowling so much, so early in the 2nd innings, is an indication that we will play only three specialist bowlers at Durham (Caddy, Charl and Alfonso, I would imagine) and that we will lean on Zander as the fourth seam bowler, should we need one. This assumes that Pete won't be fit but even if he will be fit to bowl, he won't have had any bowling, so I'd imagine he'd still play as a batsman only, anyway.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 12:01

It might mean nothing of the kind. It might simply be that there's nothing to be gained by bowling the returning Caddick too much in this dead game, and that Turner, too will simply have a couple of spells this afternoon to oil the wheels before inclusion in the side for Durham.
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 12:31

I would be very surprised if Turner plays against Durham, FE. Unless he's suddenly bowling like a dream today then he has not done enough in this game to demand inclusion unless there are injuries of which I am unware.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 12:40

I was actually a bit worried, FE, about the fact that Caddy was not bowling (injury flaring up or something awful like that.)

It would have surprised me a great deal had he simply not wanted to bowl and it now seems that he is, indeed, doing plenty of bowling after all.

He's now up to 41 overs for the match, I think it is. I wonder if the second XI have another 3-day game between now and a week on Saturday?

Another 30 or so overs in that might be ideal for him.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 13:39

wow.. perhaps the captain was very much less than impressed with the first innings bowling effort and demanded a response. Looks like he might have it. Hopefully, that wicket of Neil McKenzie will be very good for Michael Munday's confidence. I imagine that SA will just bat on, in which case let's hope MKM can add a couple more this afternoon.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 13:48

Another run out - they're collapsing - only 409 ahead - if we'd picked Blackie, we'd have this won by tea!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:19

I agree, SP!!!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:21

Prince bowled by Arul.

James must be desperately hoping that we can finish them off to give him another crack at the wicket.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: tufnell parka (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:23

It appears that Arul is outbowling Munday in this match.

I don't think this is a very good thing.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:29

In the first innings, TP, Arul bowled darts that were quite accurate but carried no menace whatsoever.

When MKM got the ball above the batsman's eyeline, they looked like they had to work hard (espeically Amla who struggled somewhat with the flighted ball) It was certainly the case that Munday bowled much more loose stuff, but also the case that he carried more threat.

Obviously, I don't know how they've bowled today.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:31

SA have quit their innings. James and Neil will get another chance.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:33

Hopefully, Neil and Arul will knock off the 482 runs required and James won't be needed!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:37

I wonder if we might even send James out to open?

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like;

Neil
James
Zander
Peter
Wes

as a 2nd innings batting line-up (based on who Mr Rose would prefer to play up at Durham.)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:38

... before tea



LoL

Sixty-two Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:40

Michael's wicket was taken with a full-toss.

However, he was also the victim of a dropped catch by his captain.

IMO, Caddy should probably twice have been on the boundary to hold miscued drives off MKM in the first innings too, so a bit of a rough game for MKM.

[content-uk.cricinfo.com]

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:44

I see Neil's adopting a cautious approach again...

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 14:53

James in at three.

Really think Neil needs to take stock and seek to play a lengthy innings sometime soon...

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 16:41

Well, it will surely be a travesty of justice if Wes is not given a chance at Chester LS. Indeed, I would have thought that if he is just ignored for Chester LS, then he might start looking at the Matt Wood route out of town.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: tufnell parka (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 17:01

cheers a god - nice insight

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 17:11

Wes now has a first-class career average which is but a half-run below 40.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 17:38

The devil's advocate would point out that this is significantly helped by 20% of his first-class innings being not-outs, and would also draw attention to his one hundred in 51 innings.
James (who one might assuming is your candidate for replacement) also averages 40, but has 10 hundreds in 116 innings with relatively fewer (approx 9%) not outs.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 17:58

Arul certainly outbowled Michael in this game although while he was bowling well at the OP wen Langer for some unknown reason moved him to the River end he struggled.

Meanwhile, when Munders was tried at the River his performace jumped a number of levels.

The game limped to a conclusion at 5:00 with the shaking of hands. Only saw one dismissal - Arul - the tamest catch you could imagine. Lobbing it up to the fielder would have been an understatement.



(Sm72)

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 20:21

Photo's from day 3

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6923/mboucherbldsjonesmediumxl9.jpg

M Boucher bld S Jones -- It is unusual to see two stumps remaining with the bail on.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6956/asuppiah4runsmediumwebvtq5.jpg

A Suppiah top scored in second innings, this is one of his four's

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6831/aprincemediumwebviewpa5.jpg

C Kieswetter making a good stop down the leg side, A Prince batting

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/104/aprincebldasuppiahmediuei7.jpg

A Prince bld A Suppiah.



http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Smiley-photographer-animationTony.gif

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 21:03

You have a real flair for this Mike.
These photos are great!

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 01/07/2008 21:07

Thanks FE I think I am getting better the more I use the camera.



http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Smiley-photographer-animationTony.gif

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/07/2008 09:42

Yes, FE, I pointed out myself in an earlier post that the one foible in Wes's record as a batsman is the poor ratio of converting 50s to 100s. On the other hand, he's had lots of games batting at six and some at seven, I would guess, so, I assume, he's simply run out of partners on occasion and been forced to hit out with non-batsman (such as Willow, for instance) at the other end at other times.

To me, the greatest point in Wes's favour is that I think he showed character in the 2006 season in which only Cameron White performed as one might have hoped. Wes battled away and got, I think, eight 50s that year.

Another thing worth mentioning is that we played a game on a shocking pitch at Swansea where bowlers totally dominated. We were left to get not many but were, swifly, not very many (and not close to the 'not many,') for 3 or 4. Wes then showed great maturity to - with the aid of Parsie - get us to our target for no further loss. I'm sure there have been quite a few times over the years where we would have folded in that situation.

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 02/07/2008 10:56

AG - I like your reference to Wes and Parsie at Glam because I have long felt that Wes is the epitome of Parsie in his 'Somersetness'

Home grown, down to earth, hard working and with talent. Intelligent but unassuming. The grit to see it through.

I see Wes as taking on the KP mantle (the real KP not the show-pony).

Re: Back in White - South Africa 3 Day
Posted by: Mike BOS (IP Logged)
Date: 04/07/2008 18:04

Looks like England will have their work cut out against South Africa, not only did they do well against us they are also going well against Middlesex.

At the moment South Africa are 337 for 4 in 87 overs, Middlesex’s Richardson has good figures 19 overs 8 maidens 2 for 34 less than two per over.



http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Smiley-photographer-animationTony.gif

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