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Success in Sussex CC1


Use him while he's here!

By Grockle et al
May 22 2013

The departure of important players has started with the move of Nick Compton to the England camp for the summer (we all hope).  George Dockrell is already with the Irish camp and will soon be followed by Jos Buttler and Alviro Petersen who soon join their respective CL squads.  Therefore in 8th place with only 33 points in the bag the county has to get on a forward roll while these people are still here.  David Nosworthy says this is the start of the way back - we have to hope he is right.

v Sussex CC1 @ Hove Wednesday 22nd May 2013

Scorecard

Commentary

With a few absentees and some injuries in the squad the number of players up for selection has limited Marcus Trescothick's options for this game.  However, some runs to his front end batsmen against Middlesex on sunday has helped, Arul Suppiah for example has a decent score behind him now.

The choice is from;

Trescothick, Suppiah, Petersen, Hildreth, Buttler, Trego, Thomas, Kirby, Leach, Waller, Overton J, Barrow, Meschede

Lewis Gregory was included but has been forced to pull out because of a side strain and that has allowed Craig  Meschede to join the group.  Some discussion has taken place about a two spin attack with both Leach and Waller being picked but that might be a step too far.  It is more likely that the side will be mostly unchanged from the Middlesex week with maybe Alex Barrow or Meschede being given an opportunity.  It would be an important game for Barrow who did not impress in his first chance this year.  A win with maximum bonus points would push us to a solid 7th place we presently stand nearly 50 points behind our opposition.  Any win would be a boost of confidence which is what some players seem to need to get their heads up and working towards improvement. 

We have won the toss and have elected to bat.  The selectors have left out Max Waller and Craig Meschede, going instead for a seam attack and the return of young batsman Alex Barrow.  Personally I see a place for Craig M and have yet to be impressed with Alex but it is early days for the two and opportunities may be coming thick and fast as places come up for grabs to replace absent colleagues.

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Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 10:41

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:16:49:28 by Grockle.

 
More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 17:40

When we get maximum points from Sussex we will move up to a safe seventh!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:20:05:54:04 by Grockle.

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 17:48

How many more times do you need to be told, old boy?

Wednesday is Market Day!

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 17:52

And I predict that if that happens we'll then be involved in a long and difficult mid table battle.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Norwich SCCC (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 18:01

Don't forget sex on Sunday. Thats always the best.

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 18:06

Sex what's sex? When baywatch comes on the telly I look at the boats!!

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 18:23

There are boats?



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 22:17

Are you blind?

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 22:43

Once the theme music starts I see nothing but the great characterisation and acting abilities of the Hoff and Pamela. What is scenery when you are in the presence of such great dramatic talent.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 22:47

... and what, Grockle, are you doing awake at this time of the night! Is is thoughts of Baywatch (which, alas, I have never seen) that are keeping you awake in the small Omani hours?

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 18/05/2013 22:52

It'll be the boats LOL no doubt about it!!

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2013 03:09

I haven't seen it either because it has the Mighty Hoff and Pamela in it. I saw him in "Nick Fury Agent of Shield" and that was enough for me.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2013 10:30

A poster has pointed out that this Beach stuff has nothing to do with the cricket (or class of any kind really) and he is quite right.

So if anyone wants to continue with this then the 'pointless post' thread is there for extension. I've also just asked AG to stop talking footbal somewhere else and moved something of Botham's for the same crime so Sussex or nothing here from now on please.

Thanks



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: BristolRob (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2013 22:15

Horsham is Michael Munday's Club.
I wonder if we'll use a leg spin bowler?



Who put the A in Trego?

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 03:43

What's he doing all the way over there? I thought he was in Cornwall.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 05:55

Quote:
Norwich SCCC
Don't forget sex on Sunday. Thats always the best.

Well you know your 'Sex Norwich because you certainly weren't wrong!!



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 07:28

None of the other strugglers are playing this week so we must take advantage of a solid weather forecast and at least hope for a full bonus points draw.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 11:20

Still no word, yet, on Alf.

Difficult to believe the very late switch can have been motivated by anything other than injury or illness though so probably reasonable to assume that, unless stated otherwise, he is in doubt for Horsham.

I suppose Adam Dibble may be most likely to come in, having been in the squad for Middx? Or will they gamble on one last attempt to make the Hussain move pay dividends?

Lewis Gregory will presumably be replaced by Craig M?

Arul must now be considered probable to start at Horsham, even if he wasn't before yesterday?

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 14:34

Sussex are resting their four leading bowlers - Magoffin, Anyon, Panesar and Jordan - in the YB40 match with the Netherlands today, ahead of Wednesday`s four-dayer at Horsham.

England Under-19 bowler Zacariah Finch (sounds like a character straight out of The Old Curiosity Shop) is making his debut.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 14:49

...or a professor at Hogwarts?

 
Re: More Sex next Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 20:45

Quote:
BristolRob
Horsham is Michael Munday's Club.
I wonder if we'll use a leg spin bowler?

Will Beer also plays in the same side as MKM.

Each man recently took four wickets as they handed Chichester a heavy defeat.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 20:55

I wonder if Thomas will feature in the starting line - up at Horsham?

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2013 21:46

I think Alfie and Kirbs could be under threat for Wednesday.
Dibble was in the squad last week, maybe he'll get a run out, and maybe even Craig O.
Can't see any change to the top 7, unless Lewis doesn't make it in which case i'd guess Alex or Meschede will have to take his spot as a batter (have we got anyone else!?)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 05:14

Or To Kill A Mockingbird...

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 10:28

Craig Meschede and Hussain playing for the seconds today so would assume not travelling with the first team squad.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 10:35

Not sure what Craig M has to do to get a chance?

Maybe Dave N just doesn't fancy him for first-class cricket?

As I recall he had both runs and wickets in the most recent second XI game?

It would be slightly surprising if Lewis Gregory, having had to pull out of his spell on Sunday would then be risked for a four day game starting just three days later?

Perhaps we should also assume, in view of the above post, that Alf may be fit after all?

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 11:00

Looking at the seconds I notice the non selection of Waller M

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 11:11

And it's a one-day game, too, so you'd think he'd normally be in partly because of his fielding?

I can't really say that I thought he bowled so well on Sunday that he should suddenly be in CC contention, but then perhaps we are expecting a dry pitch (?) and George D is on international duty.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 11:30

Could just be back up for Leach, just in case (it is an away game). I can't see us going in with two spinners and extending our batting tail given the present state of our middle order.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 11:41

Max has just tweeted that he us on the bus to Horsham so must be a chance he will play!!!

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 12:08

IF the track is dry, Grockle, then it's possible that Max could replace one of the seamers without, necessarily, extending the tail?

I agree, though, that it is probably unlikely that he would play.

However, it's possible that Dave N wants a look at him in first-class action.

I certainly do not forsee Max replacing Jack as we'd lose too much control as a consequence.

Max could possibly replace Kirby or Jamie if we want to rest either man without any deleterious effect on the batting.

He, arguably, could even replace Lewis Gregory without much fall-off in batting given that Lewis only averages 11 in the CC anyway.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 12:11

Will Beer playing against Somerset at Taunton Vale today so probably unlikely that he will be appearing for Sussex against us at Horsham.

But then Sussex already have Monty as main front-line spinner and Chris Nash as a useful off-spinner.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 12:16

CM does not appear to be in the team according to the scorecard,Team has been changed on the main site as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:21:12:18:10 by nelliec.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 12:31

How slow is the official website with team/squad selection news?

If Max is on the Coach, then the squad MUST already be known.

Quite poor, IMO, that it is not listed on the official website given that the match is less than 24 hours away.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Harry_quin (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 13:08

Quote:
SheptonPaul
...or a professor at Hogwarts?

well his first name is Harry so maybe he's a wizard

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 13:41

Reverting to the second XI match against Sussex, 17 year old Cameron Steel is Captain!

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 16:18

Heavy defeat looking probable in that second XI game.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 19:36

Any visitor from the planet zog to the official website would have no idea that there is a first team game starting tomorrow.

I really think it's poor that there's no team news or even mention of the game.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 19:47

So do I, AGod.

The Sussex squad is as follows:-

JE Anyon
BC Brown (wkt)
JS Gatting
RJ Hamilton-Brown
CJ Jordan
CJ Liddle
MW Machan
SJ Magoffin
CD Nash (capt)
MS Panesar
LWP Wells
LJ Wright
MH Yardy

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 19:52

It'll stop the Zogites from supporting Somerset certainly.

It is poor.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 20:02

Thanks for the Sussex squad, Clarence.

I have found out from the 'This is Somerset', website that Lewis Gregory has a side strain and was sent for a scan.

DN was claiming that he'd be '50:50 for Sussex, depending on the scan.'

Personally, even if the scan is clear I wouldn't think it sensible to send a guy who couldn't complete a spell on Sunday into a four-dayer on Wednesday.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 20:06

Casomer and I will be looking to cheer Somerset on tomorrow. Weather forecast seems OK. Somerset 450 for say 5 or 6 would seem to be the ideal - enough so that Max can run through them later!!!(Sm150)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 20:12

Well I have to say I hope you guys see us build from Sunday rather than return to old 4 day ways whoever they send out. Will Lewis be up for a place anyway? Get Craig M in, let's see what he can do.



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 20:15

Would assume looking at the 2nd team today DN must have taken a squad of 16 or 17 to Horsham today, with last weeks team plus Gregory,Cove,Dibble,Max,Barrow,Craig M??
Alf? Any news anywhere?CK? Any news?
Totally agree that feedback on injuries/Squad etc is very poor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:21:20:16:11 by nelliec.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 20:35

Yeah, all we can do is make deductions by a process of elimination.

Forecast seems fine for tomorrow and Saturday but Friday looks cold and damp.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 20:43

Had a look at the last two Horsham fixtures and plenty of wickets for spin in both games... So maybe Max is in with a shout of joining Leach in the side.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 21:27

It's on the main site now: Somerset will name their starting line up from the following squad of players- Marcus Trescothick (captain), Alex Barrow, Jos Buttler, Lewis Gregory, James Hildreth, Steve Kirby, Jack Leach, Jamie Overton, Alviro Petersen, Arul Suppiah, Alfonso Thomas, Pete Trego and Max Waller.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Somerset Wolfie (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 21:28

Quote:
AGod
Any visitor from the planet zog to the official website would have no idea that there is a first team game starting tomorrow.
I really think it's poor that there's no team news or even me

[www.somersetcountycc.co.uk] of the game.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 22:11

So no Overton and meschede. And barrow gets another chance. Can't think that's the right decision unless of injuries. A lot of strange decisions getting made this year all round. I hope for their sake they are proved right!!

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 22:17

Jamie is in the squad.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 22:22

Craig I meant mike!! Not in the seconds nor the firsts. Neither is dibble nor meschede and Gregory who can't be fully fit is!!!

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 22:23

So Craig M did not play the seconds game and isn't in the first team squad either?

Did not suffer any obvious injury on Sunday.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Connaught Opener (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 22:54

What looked like a decent squad 2 weeks ago appears to have been decimated by international call ups and injuries. Gemaal Hussain must wonder who all his team mates are in the 2nd XI this week! Must be like being back at school with a 17 year old captain! Good luck to the XI selected tomorrow. Will still be a strong team.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 23:00

Maybe a bit of a team bonding exercise AG, to get them all away together.Trying to get the one day feel good factor into the 4 day changing room.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2013 23:02

Fully expect unchanged team.
Cant think any chance we'll play 2 spinners, especially with Arul in the team.
Only change may be Alex in for Lewis should he not prove fit to play.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 03:11

If Lewis is a doubt to bowl I think he would also be a doubt to start ahead of Alex - big game for Mr Barrow if he does start. Must agree about two spinners. Just because Meschede isn't on the team list on the main site doesn't necessarily mean he is not in the squad... not always 100% accurate I'm afraid



(Sm72)

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 07:30

Yes, site may have it wrong.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: BristolRob (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 07:36

Radio Bristol have just reported Lewis is out and Craig Meschede has been added to squad.



Who put the A in Trego?

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 08:11

Not surprising. Side strains and playing cricket don't really go hand in hand!!

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 09:36

Certainly not for four days shortly after being unable to complete a one day spell!

Remains to be seen whether Craig M is the intended replacement for Lewis. It could be that Barrow is the intended replacement. One assumes that, after Sunday, Arul will definitely start so it seems unlikely that Barrow is there as a potential replacement for Arul.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 10:39

Won the toss and Bat.No Waller or Meschede.

 
Re: More Sex this Wednesday
Posted by: West Country Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 10:58

Some surprises in the squad then

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:01

Tres only toss winning captain to be batting first in current round of games.

Is it at all bright down there?

Gloomy in London.

Forecast suggests brighter, but very cold with showers tomorrow, wash-out on Friday, bright and dry on Saturday.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:03

Seems that DN rates both Barrow and Gregory above Craig M, with the bat then?

Equally, although Alex bowls some "phantom seamers", the selection suggests that Gregory's bowling was unimportant in getting him the vote to play in the previous game.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:17

In the words of an early Eagles song "Arul's Already Gone"



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:29

Yet another collapse imminent, one fears.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:30

That's the problem with batting..... once you get into a rut, it's awfully difficult to get out of it again.

If this proves another match of batting failure, then Dave N is surely going to have to think long and hard about trying to pack the team with as much batting as we can for the next couple of games, just to try to "stop the rot"?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:34

Well, AG's written this one off - we're gonna collapse and the game's gone - just as well go home now...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:37

Not what I said, as you well know, SP.

But can you really say you are at all confident of some great recovery in this innings?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:41

Why not wait until the collapse has happened before deciding what to do about it?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:44

Forward planning.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:50

Has Barrow come in ahead of Buttler?

If so, why?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:54

Well Alex gets his chance to re-establish his first team credentials early as none of the guys struggling in the top five seem to have moved forward all that far.

Well so much for that as I type.....

Probably moves Mr Meschede up the list.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:22:11:58:36 by Grockle.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:54

Not the best of starts, I'm sure we'd have hoped for better.
Still plenty to play for, a decent stand will see us right back in the thick of things.
Now for coffee...shall I have whiskey or cream in it?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:55

Radio have corrected themselves.. It was Alex.

And now it's Jos.

One does wonder whether batting first under heavy cloud was wise?

BUT.. when your batting line-up is so thoroughly out of form, then it's difficult to be sure if that's the main problem?

Sounds fairly shambolic yet again, though.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:57

Jim .. Have BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 11:58

They had gone before I posted...the latter at the same time as.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:00

Some of us manage to be simultaneously fearful of collapse and hopeful of recovery without being confident of either - what is the problem with not knowing what's going to happen.

Still, the collapse has undeniably happened, which is most satisfactory.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:00

Forecast implies a three day game, but seems very likely we'll still contrive to lose inside that time.

Time for Mr Nosworthy to show his mettle, me thinks....

Meanwhile, one does have to rather wonder about FE's point on the other (elephant) thread..... perhaps Brian Rose did work wonders with a group of pretty ordinary players?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:00

Disappointing stuff I'm afraid, somebody has stand up and accept responsibility.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:00

Oh dear. Down to a man about to leave for international climes and a man who has struggled to get a Championship run this season....

Bloody hell they are going faster than I can type!!



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:02

Very, very, very disappointing!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:02

I can't believe that we won the toss and batted, with the forecast and current conditions. Sussex must have felt like they'd won the lottery!

Alex Barrow is a surprise choice, given that he has generally not inspired confidence, but some on here were calling for him.

Seems to be down to Jos and Tregs again.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:02

What the hell did Magoffin have for breakfast this morning and where can I buy it!!



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:02

What? Every time I refresh the page, we've lost TWO more wickets!

AG, is your time zone ahead of yours and you knew about this already?

sad smiley

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:02

No, MikeIndex, it's only "satisfactory," if one has money on Sussex for the win.

I don't and I could not be less pleased at fears being realised.

I suppose the one thing that can be said for Tres's decision to bat first is that at least he did not hide our batsmen/batting. The other thing that could be said, is that perhaps it should have been hidden.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:05

Whatever Jim's having, can I have a large one!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:06

Someone on commentary had never heard of Alex Barrow and is under the impression that Jack Leach is Jamie Overton. Surely it's not too much to expect commentators to prepare themselves by spending an hour or so familiarising themselves with basic details like the names of the opposing team and which way round they bat?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:08

Agree, Mike Index.

If conditions are as helpful as the commentary implies (I won't say as the score implies as I don't trust our batting as an accurate barometer of conditions) then should we do a Justin Langer and declare NOW?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:08

Rehman must be wondering how many runs he'll have to bowl at when he gets here?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: West Country Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:08

What more can you say, I think it`s best that I say nothing

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:09

Well at least we've avoided the follow-on.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:09

Have we ever been all out before lunch?

What is the use in winning the toss.

This is going to spoil my lunch.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:09

I went to get ready to go out just as Petersen was out. Having got ready I did not believe my eyes when I saw we had 7 down. I am an optimistic sort of fellow but I cannot believe that we can get anything having watched last week's bowling. When I come home at tea time I am hoping to find Marcus and Arul well into a good partnership

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:09

I work about 40mins from Horsham & had booked the afternoon off. Didn't expect Arul to be there by the time I arrived, but thought we should have most of the batting intact, but at 43-4 I started wavering. Rang a colleague to advise reconsidering my afternoon & during the phone call we lose 3 more. So, will be staying at work now, it's not exactly lovely cricket watching weather anyway.

Forescast not great for Thu/Fri in these parts so maybe I'll be lucky & the game will still be on Saturday & I can pop down to see us save the game (Sm147)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:09

Let's hope somebody at the club is wise enough to have a word in DN's shell-like to keep him away from Twitter this evening....

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:14

Let's hope Dean Elgar is R G Pollock in a (poor) disguise.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:26

Didn't Sussex bowl Yorkshire out for 60-odd at the start of the season? Not at Horsham, I'm sure, but maybe it's one of those streaky things.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:28

It sounds like Magoffin is unplayable.

He's a good bowler. And a tall one.

But either batting must be massively incompetent and or pitch hugely favourable for bowling for him to prove quite this devastating?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:29

It was in Leeds, SP, that Yorkshire got bundled out for naff all.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:32

@Mike I'm sure we were all out before lunch dozens of times in the Sammy Woods era, the 1950s and other undistinguished periods of our history! (I'm sure I've read an account by Cardus of one such game at Old Trafford in the 20s).

I can't comment on the decision to bat first without having seen the conditions - maybe Marcus was partly influenced by the way the alternative strategy turned out against Middlesex?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:32

I believe that, in the Horsham game last year, Surrey batted first (though I don't remember if that was by choice) and Surrey made about 122.

Unsurprisingly, they were heavily beaten in the match.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:32

Why allow Sussex to get easy bowling points, let's declare and see how we do?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:34

"I can't comment on the decision to bat first without having seen the conditions - maybe Marcus was partly influenced by the way the alternative strategy turned out against Middlesex?"

Maybe, but you really should not second-guess yourself as a captain, in that way?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:36

...any more than we should second-guess a guy who has 20,000 more runs and played dozens more Test matches than any of us, sitting as we are in our offices, homes and cars...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:36

Botham - you are not allowed to declare for the purpose of denying bowling points.

If we were to declare we'd have to convince the ECB that we did so because track was damp and we wanted to bowl whilst some dampness remained and/or because weather was heavily overcast and we wanted to bowl under that cover, before it cleared.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:40

Quote:
AGod
Maybe, but you really should not second-guess yourself as a captain, in that way?
Agreed - you shouldn't.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:42

SP - We can all hear what has been said about the weather, however.

UNLESS a pitch starts very dry* (meaning that it'll be expected to turn) or unless there is reason to think that the pitch will become markedly uneven*, then what we can say is that batting first under heavy cloud cover is not the obvious or orthodox choice.

That said, as only one Sussex bowler has really done anything, perhaps we have to put it down to a sensational performance by that one guy.

However, with only one guy doing anything, that gives less excuse for the massive batting collapse as our guys should surely have been setting themselves with the though of seeing the main guy off, so as to get easier pickings later?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:42

I can't place the thread it was on - something to do with our choice of overseas player, before we signed Alviro - but didn't someone say something here a few months ago to the effect that Magoffin wasn't that much of an acquisition?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:44

I highly doubt it, Mike, because he played for them last season, too.

So if anyone said that, it would have been before the 2012 season, surely, as totally illogical comment before the 2013 season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: uncle morpheus (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:48

Oh dear!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:48

I don't think Magoffin was being suggested as a possible for us - rather included in a list of other counties' overseas players who weren't that great.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:54

Well, he did rather well for them last season, so if anyone said that before this season, they evidently ignored that fact (or, perhaps, were ignorant of it).

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:55

I blame old boy, casomer, Wickham and LoL, assuming they are at the match as threatened! Surely they should have done better than this.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:56

With us listening to the commentary all we can go by is what we hear, they said they were surprised we batted first with the conditions as they are.

And then we make our judgement on how the batsmen are out from what we hear.

if a batsman is out playing a loose shot what are we to think.

Somebody said on here nobody is above criticism.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 12:56

Have to say that I'm not even sure that he is their registered overseas player? I don't think they have one?

Magoffin does not seem to meet the work permit criteria for an overseas player but I think he is here due to British parentage or something like that.

I suppose he is their overseas player in the sense that they have him in lieu of one?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:11

One suspects, Mike, that Marcus probably mis-read the pitch.

He could obviously see the weather but, presumably, he thought the pitch flat and so thought we'd only have to deal with a possibility of swing due to the cloud cover?

Of course, Marcus may also have known that it was forecast to brighten up later today and may have thought that he could trust our batting line-up to get through the morning session under the cloud blanket.

In the event, it sounds like it has seamed around and, as so often, our batsmen have simply not been up to the task of dealing with a seaming ball.

Marcus's biggest problem as captain remains his own lack of batting form.

This season, Petersen started off as though he was going to carry us, but he now seems to be getting dragged down by the general lack of confidence/form.

If you look back, there's a strong element of SCCC's batting having been carried by Nick Compton in 2012. Having been carried by Marcus in 2008, 2009 and 2011 and having been carried by Tres and Hildreth in 2010.

Consistent batting as a unit has not really been a great SCCC strength in the CC for the past several years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:22:13:14:32 by AGod.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:25

We're going to win the YB40 this year.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:27

Might well do.

Be interesting to see what attitude the Somerset Board takes towards Dave N if, having brought him in to 'get us over the line,' we end up winning a one-day trophy but he presides over relegation to CC2.

And, let's face it, relegation to CC2 is looking an even money proposition at this precise juncture.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:35

Who do we have there to tell us? Anyone checked Twitter? Is George there?



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:42

""The Horsham groundsman was quoted this morning as saying "the pitch is likely to be slow and low so might not be the most thrilling game again.""

The above was contained on the cricinfo cricket feed. It claims to have come from the "Horsham press tent," but no way of verifying.

Another comment says that eyebrows were raised when Somerset chose to bat first as looked a perfect morning for swing bowling.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:46

One other comment that was probably on point;

"The Somerset batsmen could make the M4 look like a dodgy track at the moment."

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:53

Come back Rosie - all is forgiven!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:54

Who is "Kirkby."

Is it a new player?

Surely his name should not be a tough one to pronounce correctly?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 13:56

I'm amazed we chose to bat simply on the fact that our batting has not instilled confidence at all this season.

If we had to go with our present "strength" then bowl first unless you were looking to fool the side into thinking it was a one day game!!

But for that you would have had to send Trigger in first - might not have been a bad idea to be honest - couldn't have done much worse.

As they are going at just over 4 and over and are just about to pass our second wicket total with the loss of none I think I'll go with the prediction that it's going to be a long day in the field for our boys to ponder their position.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: litlekeithy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:05

I have suspicion that the bat first choice was because they didn't want to face Panesar in the last innings. If so it does show how unconfident the batting is.

From Warwickshire onwards the choices that have come home to haunt us appear to be based on covering up perceived weaknesses either in tired bowling or poor batting.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:13

Dave must be sitting where ever he is sitting watching his task just get harder and harder. When Somerset hit that confidence slump watch out world.

Coming in to get an 'almost' team 'over the line' must have seemed a challenge but what do you do with a squad which presently seems to be in long format batting meltdown which is getting potentially weaker by the week because of departures.

Dean Elgar, as someone said earlier, had better be damn good!



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:30

Steve Magoffin is Sussex's overseas player, in his second season for the county (he has played for other counties inc Worcestershire and Leicestershire.)

He qualifies for a work permit because he has a British wife.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:37

Who the hell writes our game plans??!

Time to tear them up and start again.

Back to the drawing board!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:44

Of course, if the ECB hadn't brought back the heavy roller this season Sussex would be eight down by now (Sm10)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:50

Well, Thursday's forecast seems to be getting steadily worse.

Friday's is still dire.

So we might yet get the three points for the draw!!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:50

Don't panic, the lovely Wendy on BBC weather this morning was predicting rain tomorrow & Friday, & we'll bat long enough Saturday to get another draw. Looking forward to it, though if she's wrong, I'll be doing the gardening instead....

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:56

Dare me to go and ask DN, who is sitting about 30 yards away whether this is success or happiness (see his tweets)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 14:58

I dare you, Casomer!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:01

Just back in.
If our bowlers can't do it, then we need to.
Let's get to work boys and girls, I've got the back row dog in me, let's rip 'em up.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:04

I double dog dare you, Casomer...please tweet his response.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:04

What is it Cas? Dodgy Batting? Dodgy pitch? Excellent bowling? Nash seems to like it...



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:05

Bagpuss - maybe the god-forsaken heavy roller is beginning to wear off?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:08

BJ's 15:01 as post of the day!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:10

Well Alf is still alive anyway..... Start of the Sussex rot?

I'm off to see Benedict Cumberbatch destroy the universe. I expect to see someone has destroyed Sussex's when I get back!!

Beam me up Scotty!



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:10

Just for the sake of interest, I've done a quick search, and the only remotely negative commentI've found here about Magoffin is this one.

Quote:
Re: Overseas signing for 2013
Posted by: Hants01 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 October, 2012 23:11

I don't see why Somerset won't struggle like everyone regarding signing an overseas player next season.

It is sobering to glance at next season's overseas player list SO FAR. Only FOUR of the eighteen counties know their recruit. No disrespect to Nash (Kent), Magoffin (Sussex),North (Glamorgan) and Rogers (Derbyshire), but they are hardly Crowe,Garner, Richards types (or Marshall and Greenidge sorts from my county).

Apart from New Zealand and Australia touring and the other one stuff next season, what about the county scheduling? If the T20 is to be played on a Friday and a Sunday (as envisaged and as it should be) over the season (good), this isn't conducive to getting a few top players in for a few weeks for the T20, to say nothing of the county season as a whole.

I can't really see the point of recruiting these players of, how shall I say? Not vintage pedigree.

It was rapidly followed by several regular posters extohlling his virtues, and some saying they'd be more than happy if he signed for us.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:11

At their throats now, no holding back.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:15

And, to be fair to him, Hants 01 is right that none of those listed are/were Crowe, Garner, Richards, Greenidge or Marshall types.

Heaven only knows what we'd have made against Garner and Marshall!!!?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:16

This season is progressing in the same way that the 1985 season did, in my opinion.

We then had Richards and Garner in our midst and were of course captained by Ian Botham.

The result? We finished in 17th (bottom) place in the County Championship, and were sadly (as I recall only too well) a laughing stock by virtue of the manner in which we played our cricket, amongst not only the other counties, but the cricket media at large.

Thankfully, it is not for me to decide what should or should not be done, but there must surely be signs of apprehension amongst those with whom the responsibility lies.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:26

Oh dear he saw me and old boy coming and ran away.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:28

Maybe he ran to his computer?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:33

Treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggoooooooooooooo

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:45

Thanks FE for seeking that out. That was the post I was thinking of though I remembered it as slightly more derogatory.

I have just noticed the 'Search' option at the top and feel rather silly on two counts.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: BristolRob (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 15:56

I've e-mailed Radio Sussex to ask them to tell the commentator to pronounce Pete's name correctly. It really does annoy me.
Don't expect it will change anything though.
I wonder what's happened to the Somerset based commentator this game.



Who put the A in Trego?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 16:37

Old Boy tried to approach DN again but he was in animated conversation with MT and AH, and so decided that discretion was the better tactic, also that if only our bowlers would....you know the rest. But also that Max is doing a great job with the water bottles!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 16:48

Well, I suppose it's in our interests that Sussex not collapse in a hurry, otherwise would just leave us longer to try to save this game.

Might not be much play for the next two days, so might come down to a question of can we dredge up enough resilience to bat out most of Saturday?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 16:58

I fall asleep and we go to pieces...bois bach, what's going on mun?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 17:04

Chris Nash says Sussex would have "definitely bowled first," joking that he "already had his pads on," when he saw that Tres had won the toss.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 17:17

Second team also being dominated by their Sussex equivalents, thus far.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: WyvernRose (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 18:34

I'm just without words for what's going on. We've even managed to strip AP of his batting ability.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:02

Well posters let us get honest ( not my normal pessimist / realist labels ) !
We cannot in truth put this down to just a bad day at the office once again. There is obviously something very wrong at this beloved club of ours. We are all out 76 and then everyone of our bowlers goes for 4 an over or thereabouts on the same track !
We can say MT is a poor captain ( which I believe to be true for a variety of reasons ) or that AH would not be subject to a rush of interest if left without a job or that we are missing Rosie or that too many players are past their sell by date or whatever but too simplistic sadly.
I believe ( someone will correct me if I have got it wrong ) that Yorkshire won the championship one season and then got relegated the next with pretty much the same squad. If you want answers look there and as per another thread look at the Richards / Garner / Botham season.
I still have good friends among ex players ( although I accept they are years " ex " nowadays ) and I do not like what I hear about the intrinsic behind the scenes problems at SCCC or the not revealed reasons behind some happenings over the last year.
I do not believe we will suddenly come good in the CC and I fear we will not sustain our short form for long enough.
Please discuss with an open mind - we are in the brown stuff and on current performance could well get relegated which would let us say - not be good !

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:11

It's easy to look at current results and say that something must be rotten behind the scenes.

But it could be as simple as Tres being past his best, Compton being with England, Craig K being injured and Hildreth being out of nick?

It looks awful from Nosworthy's point of view - from the outside it looks as though he has arrived and we've quickly forgotten how to play CC cricket.

But did a combnation of rain and an annus mirabilis from Compton paper over the cracks last season?

We did try to strengthen the squad over the winter but were not successful - will we have more luck next winter because, Lord knows, the squad looks like it needs beefing up?

Rodders - if you've got something to say about events behind the scenes, I'd rather you came out and said it!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:13

We followed Yorkshire down that season after following them to the top the season before.

This ay very well need something more than "learning the lessons of the game" because we certainly don't seem to be doing that.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:23

Once in a rut, very difficult to get out.

I can think of only two recent examples of teams getting out.

1) Durham last season. Changed captain from Mustard to Collingwood and results did an almost instant 180. But that's going from a cricketer of lesser stature to one of greater stature within the game.

SCCC do not possess anyone of greater stature within the game than Tres.

2) Warks three seasons ago. Their batting was awful all season long - truly pathetic, but they managed to stay up by preparing dust bowls at Edgbaston on which Imran Tahir took bucket-loads of wickets.

Even if Rehman could do that again, he's only here for about the final five games (if we get the work permit in time) and it might be too late by then?

Getting Dockrell back might help but I'm not even sure if DN considers him first-choice, as of right now?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:28

AG - I would love to tell all I know ( and I mean know ) but no chance given where I get it from - I would honestly lose good friends overnight.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:30

Having said the above about the captaincy, one does wonder if certain styles of leadership might be more appropriate for certain situations than others?

For example, Marcus's amiable style might have been perfect for keeping a successful show on the road/not rocking the boat etc?

But perhaps the boat now needs to be rocked?

But I don't know if SCCC have that kind of person in the club? Nosworthy strikes me as the amiable type and of those that might want to be captain, then Alf and Pete both strike me as guys that would be more ebullient than Tres but not sure either would be a hard task-master?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:39

Well, we have heard it said so many times by captains, coaches and indeed, I believe, from the new Director of Cricket, so there can be no doubting as to its validity:-

I refer of course to the hackneyed phrase - "We can take a lot of positives out of this."

In the case of today's play that is 3 bowling points, and I suspect that should there be a full days play tomorrow, then the team will be on their way home by tomorrow evening.

And Rodders12, I agree with you wholeheartedly on your posting of 19.02.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 19:46

Forecast is poor for the next two days, with lots of heavy showers.

As an outground, Horsham might not dry fantastically quickly either.

Saturday is forecast to be nice batting weather.

However, I wouldn't put so much as a penny on our batting line-up getting us out of this jam. Not one.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 21:37

Thanks CP - perhaps you are in contact with the same people as me as I guess we were in our prime around the same era of SCCC !!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 22:13

Thinking about what the weather will do is not going to help us one jot. Basically we made a very poor decision to bat first and we lack a strike bowler, who can bowl fast and accurately, rather like Glen McGrath.

Very worrying to hear discontent behind the scenes - there have certainly been some strange, bewildering decisions in recent times.

We're behaving like old grannies stuck on a roller coaster.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 22:22

Nosworthy, on the official site, did not even offer an explanation as to why we opted to bat first noting, simply, that it 'didn't work out.'

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 22:28

That's cos he hasn't a clue why. No point lying. Check his twitter in the morning. More seagulls and water margin garbage. More sense out of that!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 22:36

'Nothing is particularly hard if you break it into small jobs.'

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 22:38

Botham - McGrath may have been accurate, but he was never fast.

Rodders - if you can't tell us about, don't hint at it. There's nothing more tedious, in my opinion, than "I know something you don't know".

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 22:42

Neither is magoffin!! You just have to know where to bowl it!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2013 23:24

Can't argue with that, ronnie.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 04:23

Can I suggest that those who don't like Mr Nosworthy's Twitter don't follow him, it isn't gong to change and he's going to tell you nothing about this kind of problem in 140 letters.

As most people do he seems to use it for things that cross his mind rather than things that cross his desk.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 07:36

FE, he was fast enough.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 07:40

Whatever happened to the mighty L J Wright?

I thought he was supposed to be playing this one?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 07:44

I had a very nice day among friends after a pleasant journey through beautiful countryside, to watch some cricket on a good ground. Unfortunately most of the best cricket was demonstrated by our opponents on this day, with our lads showing more of the failings that had previously been illustrated in the CC games against Warwickshire and Middlesex.

To begin at the beginning, I would have batted first as Marcus did. The wicket looked fine and true, even when I had a close look at lunchtime. The only factor appeared to be the cloud cover, and the forecast was that that would very soon be replaced by sunshine. It so happened that the sun broke through about 1255 - five minutes into Sussex's knock.

Somerset's batters were faced with bowlers, and particularly Magoffin, bowling fast medium on a perfect length at the stumps. Frankly nothing more than that, but certainly in Magoffin's case I don't remember even one ball which wasn't exactly as described above. A wonderfully controlled spell of medium paced bowling. Bowling balls in that way the batsmen were candidates for bowled, lbw or catches in the slips or keeper if there was any deviation. I remember Magoffin bowling just as well at Taunton last year without the same devastating results. If Australia have better bowlers in their touring team, I would be amazed. I don't think IMO any of the Somerset players got out to bad shots, other than perhaps Jos who by the time he got out was quickly running out of partners.

When they batted our bowlers did not have the discipline of Magoffin and his mates, and gave away too many scoring opportunties with ill-directed off target and short deliveries. But one of the ways Nash combated any good length straight balls that Somerset bowled was that virtually everything that was like that was turned into half-volleys by him taking a stride or two down the wicket, which would clearly have upset the bowlers rythym.
Despite desparate calls from the boundaries by one or two of us, and apparently no action from Marcus, Jos or the DOC and Coach watching from the pavilion to get Jos to go up close behind the stumps to stop Nash, Nash just went on his destructive way.

When I left with Sussex 248 - 8 even with the faults, that was not a bad effort by Somerset on a pretty good wicket. AS usual it appears the tailenders were allowed to knock another 50+.

My personal assessment is that it is our bowling which needs changing, although in the batting as well one or two may well have run out of further chances.

Hey-ho!!



Kartik is a ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:23:07:50:08 by old boy!.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:12

I'm sick of hearing about short-pitched bowling from our lot.

Short-pitched bowling is effective, what, about 2 percent of the time at most?

We don't seem to learn this lesson at all.

Make the batsman play is bowling 1-0-1 as far as I am concerned. Of course, it's conceivable that the reason our guys did not show sufficient discupline is that they were straining too much in defence of an undefendable total put together by our 'batsmen.'

As for the batting, the Sky report certainly implied some failings rather than guys getting anything unplayable - for example they said Marcus played away from his body and Arul was bowled 'through the gate.' Regardless, it should not be beyond the wit of professional batsmen to deal with accurate medium-fast bowling although the successes of guys like Murtagh, David Masters and Alan Richardson imply that a great many batsmen on the circuit simply cannot cope with it.

If you have 3 or 4 bowlers ALL bowling really accurately then I can see the problem in terms of patience vs need to score. But when an opponent has only one metronome? Should be able to do better, IMO.

Still, Old Boy, your report seems to imply that you think that this is basically a decent batting track. Which possibly does not say much for the Sussex batting either, given that we do not appear to have bowled particularly well but still got 9 wickets in 2 sessions.

Still, one expects that Cricket Field Road will not see the Sussex batsmen again in this match.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:17

Just to keep you correct Botham,You havn't heard of "discontent". You have read something from someone who was told something by someone who had heard something from someone else - allegedly. And then isn't prepared to substantiate this.
In any case, why would discontent cause someone to waft a bat outside off stump, to play down the wrongline, to plant their front foot and play across it? Are our players only discontent when playing against a red ball but are entirely happy in each other's company when only playing for one afternoon?
What is happening is longstanding technical and mental deficiencies now being compounded by a catastrophic loss of confidence when confronted with the longer form of the game.
Is it the job of our cricketing top brass to deal with this? Of course it is, and if that means a degree of ass kicking then so be it. Is it the job of us, the supporters to help rebuild that confidence? You bet it is, and telling us that "I know something you don't know and it must be true because the person that told me used to play lots of years ago" is a pretty @#$%& way of showing that support.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:24

I can add little insight to OB's considered analysis of our failings, except that to my eye, many of our batsmen played tentatively. That could of course have been induced by the bowling, but also by general lack of confidence.

The coach's account on the main site seems to offer neither analysis nor encouragement, which is disappointing. Hope better behind closed doors.

I am among the critics of DN's tweets, my main regret is that outsiders will not gain a particularly positive impression of the club from the trite platitudes he seems to favour.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:23:08:29:12 by Casomer.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:25

My Personal opinion is that the batting order is all wrong.Why does AP not open with Tres?Surely Hildy and Jos should be 3 and 4.Undestand him batting at 3 when Compo is available, but why put pressure on Arul to open,when you have a test opener in your team.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:29

Casomer - my worry about the twitter stuff is if this is the sort of stuff that DN stands up and utters in the morning team-talk!

I don't care what he puts on twitter but if he utters that kind of meaningless pseudo-philosophical nonsense as part of team talks then I cannot imagine it helping the players one iota.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:31

Incidentally he does not appear to have used his feed since the Friday of the Middx game when, in response to one of his 'bounce back' tweets a member responded to say it was the worst day's performance that they had seen in 18 years as a SCCC member so it will need 'a hell of a big bounce back.'

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:32

Well said Railboy. Unless Rodders is prepared to tell us who these ex- players are who supply him with this inside information and then tell us exactly what is alleged to be going on, I shall assume that it is idle gossip and that things are reasonably satisfactory with a club which finished second in the CC and performed well in the one day competitions last year.

Which is not to say that I'm happy with our CC form this year. I shall be at Horsham today hoping to see a good batting perfomance.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:33

Nellie - i suppose they see little point in moving AP now, given that Arul will have to open next week anyway?

Bet the Yorkshire bowlers cannot wait to renew acquaintance with our batsmen..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: WimborneJohn (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:50

Excellent summary of yesterday's play at Horsham, Old Boy! [7.44 post], and good to meet you.

My abiding memory of the day is of Steve Magoffin's outstanding bowling in the morning cloudy conditions. His 8 for 20 would have been 9 but for a dropped catch [the only one all innings] off Jamie when he came in at no.11.

Some Sussex members I was talking to yesterday couldn't believe their luck that he has so far escaped from under the Aussie's radar. So if any of Starc, Pattinson, Siddle, Bird etc. don't last this summer, I suspect he would be a far more effective replacement than Mitchell Johnson!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:51

I've just looked at Mr. Nosworthy's twitterings for the first time. Can't believe what I'm reading! At the risk of being accused of making a snap judgement, I'd send him back to South Africa today!!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 08:53

And they are unlikely to last, Wimborne, John. Australian pacemen these days (apart from Dear old Mitchell) seem to mainly be made of glass.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:02

I agree with OB's measured description of the day's play (and of the beautiful and congenial surroundings), though not necessarily with all of his opinions.

I agree also with FE and Railboy that innuendo is unhelpful and potentially unfair.

The forecast is iffy for today, so I will give today's play a miss.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: WimborneJohn (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:05

I meant to put this comment on my earlier post.

The bowling from the other end yesterday morning was from Anyon and Jordan - neither looked really threatening and they both leaked runs. But it was just all happening with some great bowling at the other end.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:32

One thought re:One day form vs 4 day;

The 1 dayers have been played on flat track belters.

Most of the 4 day tracks seem to have done a bit.

That may explain more about the difference in batting success than different formats?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:34

This is the stats so far, the top four batting is what I expect the rest needs to improve a lot. [stats.espncricinfo.com]

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:36

Pretty good summary Railboy. Two years ago at the start of the season we were given an object lesson in how to play a four day game by Warwickshire. Where our batsmen were wafting, swatting and flicking they were forward with a full bat to anything straight and waiting for the bowler to make the mistake. They scored loads and we scored 50.

The thing that has held us together in the past couple of years when these kinds of things happen was tight disciplined bowling on line and length. Not necessarily pretty but effective at staunching runs and making the batsmen look for openings.

The batters do not seem to have learned anything at all from the Warwickshire mauling (except for probably the one player not available at the moment - Craig Kieswetter) and the bowling unit seems to have lost some of its consistency.... and here we are.

If you fail to keep your wicket and bowl the opposition short and wide stuff you will lose games. It's not a particularly hard equation.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:38

Exactly.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 09:50

No AG, unfortunately for us all DN is still tweeting his inanities, the latest I can find was on Tuesday

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 10:07

Casomer - don't torture yourself. The man "tweet inanities" so don't follow him. As I asked the other day, do you expect him to provide his inner thoughts, strategies and plans for Somerset in 140 character sound bites on Twitter?

It's called 'TWITter for a reason. Anyone who does not use it for "inanities" really doesn't understand its function.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 10:29

At ground. Spitting. A woman on the gate has already enquired as to what time the snow is due!

Pitch covers just being brought on.

Hopefully that doesn't mean that the rain radar looks grim.

The sky does not look that bad and the sun is attempting to come out.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 10:37

Clearing and brighter.

Should be good weather for batting, at least initially..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 10:43

Taking of snow, today in Taunton it has gone back to a very cold strong wind again.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 10:59

Yet another piece of poor judgement in deciding to bat first. It's become a theme already this season. Or let me re-phrase that slightly for those who don't share this view..yet another poor performance having won the toss. We may have made the correct decision but then failed to take advantage of it.

Either way, yesterday was another shambles. Embarassing.

Let's hope for a big performance today, as the match isn't dead yet obviously, after just one day.

Come on Somerset. Fight for the badge.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:02

Well, we'll have to bat in 10 mins.

Got the impression that Magoffin was through his shot a little early.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:11

I did just wonder whether when we had them at 240 odd for 8, that if we wrapped up the last 2 for 10 or so runs, there was just an outside chance of a shock still. 'Just' get 320 or so from 2nd innings & who knows, a couple of early wickets & there might be a Sussex panic. But 50 runs for the last 2 wickets & no chance now of even a draw unless the rain does it's bit. Still planning to go for Saturday's play if the game's still going by then!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:15

Our chickens are coming home to roost this season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:16

Yes I saw your opinion the other day, Grockle, but I have my own, which does not coincide with yours, particularly the generalisation in your last sentence. A new user to Twitter, mainly a reader, I haven't found it at all difficult to come across interesting news and thoughtful opinions, and pointers to them. It is not all dross by any means.

It is of course DN's choice on how he presents himself on Twitter, but my view is that it is part of the public face of the club.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:22

A little seam movement. Nothing outrageous.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:23

Then as you say Casomer we differ because if what is said on Twitter has become part of the public face of an organisation then in the words of another poster - we are all doomed!!

I agree there are some people who use it to point to other things - I stopped following Tim Harford the economist because he used it to point to about 300 things a day.

I'm just saying that Mr Nosworthy obviously doesn't do that other than as musings on sports philosphy as a whole rather than the ins and outs of his present job. Therefore IMHO is 'twitterings' are meaningless though, as you say people will see it differently if they tweet or use it as a point of reference.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:31

Dave Nosworthy will be judged on one thing and one thing alone.

Not his tweets.

Not his conversations with supporters around the ground.

Not his quotes on the official website or to the press.

But RESULTS.

You can make your own mind up as to whether you think he's succeeding so far and was the impressive choice the club claim, or whether he was simply a cheap option in an underwhelming field.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:32

Neither appeal was remotely convincing. Arul got nowhere near the one from Magoffin.

Jordan appeal vs Tres too high.

Arul got a good leg-cutter from Jordan for the nick for four.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:36

Ball from Jordan kept really low, bottom edged through slips for 4 by Tres.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:37

Arul has his his half-century - unfortunately, it is for the season as a whole.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 11:47

Bit of a flat footed waft at one that nipped across him from Tres. Disappointing.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:01

That's the peril of trying to use the AP/Smith technique on a pitch that seams a bit. Turn the face too early, leading edge.

We don't really have techniques in this line-up suited to seaming tracks, I'm afraid.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:09

Aimless waft outside off from Hildreth, then lbw next ball.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:10

So how do you become a professional cricketer of, in some cases, 10 years standing without these techniques AG?

Is it just they've been incredibly lucky making the runs that got them where they are?

Sweeping sweeping generalisation. They may not be USING the techniques but they must have had them in the past!!

Or maybe the whole of our line up have never played on a 'seaming track' before in the whole of their professional cricketing lives.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:16

Why Barrow ahead of Jos again?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:16

We often say, don't judge the pitch / conditions until both teams have batted, so it's particularly disappointing that we collapsed yesterday, then they get 300 and now we collapse again.

I wonder if Alviro struggles on damp pitches / conditions? Were his big scores on dryer pitches?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:16

This is just getting silly now... James out for 0 - 7 balls!!

This is going to be very bad people prepare yourself. I doubt the rain will be our saviour in this one



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: West Country Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:27

I`m afraid this is what I`ve been banging on about for the last 3 or 4 years but most times I post here I get drowned out by the other view. This is shaping up to be very embarrassing and I`m not remotely surprised, There has been a need to strengthen the batting for 3 or 4 years and losing Compton was really the last straw he was the pillar that holds the batting together and now he`s not there.

Too late this year obviously but please can we sign TWO batsmen for next season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:34

I take the points made about the contents of my post. However, if I said simply xyz is the case then someone would ask " how do you know " so I can't really win can I - in future though I will keep my comments to myself as requested. Re what I posted you may all believe what you like of course - it matters not to me. Something is very wrong though, very wrong at our club.
Answers on a postcard to DN I guess !

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:37

Looks like I'm doing the kitchen tap Saturday now. oh well, looking forward to going to the next YB40 in these parts, at Lords in a week or so instead....

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Tumbles (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:43

Looks like defeat in a day and a half.

Pathetic.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:43

We're back to the Trego, Buttler show.(Sm103)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 12:46

The other side have "drowned you out" because three members of the side you have been "banging on about" are seen as the best in England and another captained the second England Eleven just over a year ago and one other was voted the MVP in Domestic cricket last year.

Please name the people who were available to replace them and make this side better.

Like AG's generalisation about having 'no technical skill' this comment about along the lines of we should have replaced them three or four years ago does NOT identify the problem at Somerset.

Players with the levels of ability some of the men here have do not suddenly forget what got them where they are. This is something endemic in the way they think. train, work together, view their role.

I don't personally know what it is but maybe it has come to a head this year as Naxxar suggests. Maybe there are some kinds of divisions/inadequacies exist in the Somerset setup. We hear rumours but they are unsubstantiated. Langer solved it for a while but it beat Rosie.

If any of these things are the case then you could have brought in 20 players of the same type and probably found yourself in the same position as the side does now.

It is something more than just a lack of cricketing ability - though I can't for the life of me put my finger on it. It has been going on for so long to a greater and lesser extent.

This certainly isn't the first time we've been 50 for 4 or 5 in the last decade with a potential county beating batting line-up. It happened before Marcus opened for England, it happened before Blackie went to Durham.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 13:04

I can't remember a match as bad as this, I will admit my memory is not what it was.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 13:43

I did not say no technique, Grockle.

I said technical deficiencies when the ball is seaming around.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 13:46

Time to push on and set Sussex a formidable target.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: edinburghbil (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 13:58

Don't want to get into the doom and gloom and blame game, but is is developing into a full blown crisis. It can be turned around,BUT it's going to have to be the same personel, plus Jones and the two overseas players and the the return of CK that are going to have to do it. Of Course, we are minus Jos for part of the summer too.

Odd as it seems, I wouldn't completely rule out seeing more of Compo. I do sense there will be pressure to move Root up to open, unless, he scores plenty of runs in the next 2 tests.Probably depends on the vaguaries of KP's selection as anything else. England's batting in NZ test 1 wasn't much better than ours.

COve looked decent with the bat last year ;-)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:01

Get some loans... Why not?

Get a couple of loans and Elgar and that's three guys not in a slump.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: edinburghbil (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:02

I'm not overly convinced that the new coach knows what our strongest XI is at the moment, although, he is probably not alone ;-)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:17

Maybe Marcus should step down and concentrate on his batting. Too many bad decisions at present and in case anyone wonders, I'm not laying all the blame on MT. It's a team game and no-one suddenly becomes a bad player. Perhaps get a hypnotist in?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:19

If we decide to godown the loan route, then we've lost the plot anyway. If our team has become not good enough since
September,- for whatever reason- then that's the way it is; we put up with it this season and take remedial action for 2014.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:21

I don't know whether Middlesex at 35 for 5 encourages me that this sort of thing happens to anyone or depresses me when I think about last week.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:28

GM - surely we have to try to stay up, by whatever means?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:37

Too many bad decisions? - Botham - without reference back to check please name them!!



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:37

Most important is we live within our means. Too many clubs have tried to buy success and for most it fails.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:41

So what does that mean, Botham?

Go the 'Old Boy,' route and pick the reserve youngsters that almost never score for the first team?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:43

At the toss, Grockle and then playing balls that don't need to be played, perhaps due to loss of concentration, which is most unlike Tres.

This has to be our worst couple of days for many a year - still all the more time for golf.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:47

Is Alviro supposed to be a steady batsman? He came, started well now has whatever it is, Nick has not fired particularly well I think most would call him a steady batsman.

Who are these loan players who are going to turn this around?

And at the end of the year? Do we intend to remove Hildreth, Suppiah, Trego, Barrow, Gregory, Buttler and replace them with new batsmen? Has Marcus come to the end of the road earlier than we thought?

This lot got us here. This lot must get us out of this or they must take the blame for whatever comes of it.

Shift the batting order around by all means, drop the miscreants who can't buy a run. Play Meschede, play Steel even but the squad we have is the squad we have and it stands or falls as the squad we have until September.

The other 'solutions' sack the captain - replace him with who?

Sack the DoC? Well at least he's still in his probationary period but I'd sue for compensation if I got the sack in charge of an underachieving side after it underachieved for 5 weeks under my control. And replace him with who? Rosie?

Sack Andy Hurry put Jason in charge!!

Short term gut reactions are not going to solve this, they haven't in the past and they won't this time. A fundamental re-think might sae the season and a very very harsh winter might save the county's reputation but this is something bone deep and it is going to be very difficult to deal with.

Ohh we lost while I was typing. Have to agree with you Mike this is up there with the worst losses I've ever seen. We survived three days against Warwickshire didn't we. Did we make a day and a half on this one?

You would hope a bunch of professional cricketers would say to themselves individually "I NEVER want to be this low again". But you might have thought that after the Warks game but here we are.

(Sm147)



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:23:14:50:50 by Grockle.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:49

Quote:
AGod
So what does that mean, Botham?
Go the 'Old Boy,' route and pick the reserve youngsters that almost never score for the first team?

I'd rather have an average club for the long-term, rather than a short-term success story, followed by financial ruin.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:59

Captaincy decisions Botham.

All those ones you've seen and commented on this year.

At the toss, most people it seems had an initial issue about the overcast conditions but they disappeared as it seems they were predicted to do. So...Mr Retrospect what other ones are you talking about?

If you are saying give it to someone else to save poor Marcus' batting, are you going to buy someone in who is batting better to take his place because none of his fellow teammates are doing any better and he can't carry the side on his own even if he suddenly starts hitting three figures in his captain free state.

Realism just hits you smack in the face sometimes doesn't it.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 14:59

Quote:
AGod
GM - surely we have to try to stay up, by whatever means?

No AG I don't think we have to. If we stay up and become a "Surrey" then we've lost any way in my opinion.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:02

I think Marcus would stand down as captain before he is removed, he is that sort of person.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:07

As we always disagree, grockle, I'm not going to debate this with you. There is no point, Mr Alwayshasthelastword.

Signed

Mr Retrospect

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:10

No point, and no need looking for loan players. Who are we going to get? No Division 1 team is going to offer us a lifeline, if only because it may be them that replaces us in the drop zone should a loan player revitalise our fortunes. So we would be looking at players that currently cannot get in 2nd Division teams.
We have batters who have got us to 2nd place twice in 3 years, and a crop of youngsters we hear much about (one of whom is just 19 and top scored in a couple Lions matches last winter!). The toughest task ever to face our current captain and management is to deal with the deamons that currently infest our minds, not bring in players with less potential than the ones we currently have

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:14

Come up with better arguments Botham.

You can't back this one up because you have no background knowledge and you can't just push a button and hope others will jump on board.

And please stop taking any criticism of your point of view as a personal attack. I asked you to backup a statement. If you can't then say so or don't make the statement in the first place.

Others have a valid case which the are willing to argue - the position is a matter of opinion and some have been watching carefully. Naxxar for example could probably argue this. You haven't and you can't. Come prepared old man with a little bit more than the trusty personal snipe at me should you get in a fix.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:14

Before I looked at Grockles when I got home this afternoon, I thought I'll check on the latest score.

Ruddy hopeless BBC Sports set-up showing every latest score except Sussex and Somerset - I had been expecting MT and Arul to be putting up a decent show second time around. So where is it?? Surely not under results?

Good God (not Agod of course) - lost by an innings!! I don't know how many bad shots this time around, but I still say our bowling is just as ineffective as the current batting form.

In for a penny, in for a pound, bring on all the promising youngsters, including Abel, Meschede, Gregory, Dibble, Cove plus six of the rest. Take MT, AT and SK out of the firing line for CC cricket for 2/3 matches, and then see where we are!
If he is fit make Kieswetter captain while MT has a break.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:23:15:17:18 by old boy!.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:14

If we can't pick a team from all those in the above photo (I know one or two are not available) we are in a bad way.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:18

Sums it up really Mike. Some deep navel gazing tonight I think. We ought to go and resurrect the last few pages from two years ago and see what was said then.

This is all about Somerset pride now as someone posted earlier you have to play for the badge and what it represents because today is certainly not it or certainly not what any of us want it to be.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:18

Agree, Mike.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:32

Look no further than the Somerset Women, I see they won four out of four of their CC matches last Sunday. winking smiley

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:39

Grockle, I'll admit, you've found me out. I cannot find an argument to defeat you, but I'm happy chatting in the playground with anyone who doesn't want conflict.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:49

I don't want conflict.

I want realistic and relevant discussion. Not sound bites with no substance. At least you haven't taken you ball home Botham. Good for you. Now how the hell do we solve this bloody mess?

Twitter is talking and Peter Trego is taking few prisoners who might question his commitment.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 15:55

Sitting in the boozer after a day and a bit of a four day cricket. I'd make trego captain by the way. Get the passion back in at least.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 16:00

Quote:
Grockle

Twitter is talking and Peter Trego is taking few prisoners who might question his commitment.

I see his tweets, but who's he tweeting to or to what tweets is he referring?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 16:12

If SCCC had had anything about them we could have had a great day of cricket... Bright and sunny and sod all rain.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 16:16

Old Boy - I think that the GREAT MT might retire at season's end.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 16:37

Well there ought to be blood on the dressing room walls after that 'performance'. Truly terrible.

Not suggesting players aren't trying but it seems all confidence has gone out of the batters and our opening bowling is not as good as we thought. Much as I admire Trigger he ought to be a first or second change.

Talking of changes - there needs to be some for the next 4 day - but who?? No-one in the seconds seems to be beating down the door!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 16:47

Hugely disappointing but wholesale changes are not necessary, though it is inevitable there'll be a lot of knee jerking going on over the next few days.
We have not suddenly become a bad side, we have a squad packed with some of the finest cricketers in the land, we all know they're capable of great things, that has not changed in a few short weeks.
We must have faith that those who make the decisions do the right thing, get back to basics, nuts and bolts stuff, get the confidence back, get those lights shining brightly again.
It's at times like this we need to stick together more than ever, ripping the team, and each other apart is counterproductive in the extreme.
We'll be back, we just need to sit tight and believe.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Tumbles (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 16:47

Quote:
Sloop John B
Talking of changes - there needs to be some for the next 4 day - but who?? No-one in the seconds seems to be beating down the door!!

In a sense they can't be any worse. I'd at least try Craig M and to be fair while he didn't take wickets last time around C Overton at least went at less than 2 an over from memory.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 17:10

BJ - there could be a case for a change of leadership - PT???

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 17:14

My view on our leadership is well known, but I firmly believe that once the season is underway we back the boys to the hilt
It's not the right time.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Slow Left Chinaman (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 17:24

Tres is my king.

But if he was to step down, I don't think PT would be the right choice (Flintoff?) - is he even certain of his place in the 4-day side?

Craig K is the only one who seems to be a good candidate to me, although of course he has no experience, and it may be too much to take on.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: geoff_k (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 17:45

I see that AH says we have to increase our 'volumes'

Now is not the time to be reading books.

Seriously, though, these low scores are alarming. I fear for our prospects against Yorkshire even without Messrs Root and Bairstow.

I thought it was impossible to become a bad team overnight but we seem to be making every effort to do so.

I come from Yeovil who have had some sporting success recently but I think even 'Magic' Johnson would have a hard time resolving this situation favourably.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 17:48

Link to Tres's response to the defeat recorded on BBC Somerset.

BBC SOMERSET

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Casomer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:12

"Once the season is under way"???

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:17

Marcus is right, IMO, to be embarrassed by what has happened.

We looked a pretty sorry outfit today.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:20

But I come back to the idea that we should at least look at loan ideas. No point not considering down with them and going down by default.

Met RonnieSabre (and his good lady) today and he mentioned Tom Smith of Lancs as one possible candidate - why not look at him?

Bagpuss?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:30

I personally don't believe we are a terrible team. We've been very consistent (without actually winning anything) for several seasons now..and you don't suddenly become bad overnight. We're not on a good run in the 4 day game it's true, but sides have recovered from similar starts in the past and stayed up.

However, I do believe chickens are currently coming home to roost. We're one of the richest counties around in terms of making huge profits, yet were outbid for every player we tried to sign during the winter. The impression given (and it may just be an impression) is that we attach more importance to ground development to get an England international, than to strengthening our squad. The squad itself is a mix of some terrific players coming to the end of their careers and some promising young players, who may or not be over-hyped, but so far few have seized the day and won us a match in the way a certain ITB did v Leics in the B and H all those years ago.

We talk ourselves up as a great batting side, and we're certainly not as bad as our last 2 CC matches suggest, but in truth we rarely bat as a unit. Losing Compo this season has been a real blow, but he used to get booed when he first arrived, because he didn't fit the wham bam style so many of our followers seem to want to see. Right now, we're playing a bit like we did in the glory days, we'll beat anybody over 1 day but don't really have the patience or discipline to last for 4.

Brian Rose leaving, after so many years with us and all the knowledge and experience he brought, seems to have left a big hole, short term at least. Way too early to judge his successor, but surely recruiting somebody (with little experience of English cricket) who couldn't start face to face work with the players for several weeks wasn't ideal.

Our captain is one of the best players we've ever had..and a thoroughly decent man too, whose fight to battle his demons I find inspiring. But we never won a trophy under him. Were we too 'frightened' to consider changing our leader? Or did nobody else even want the position?

I've always believed there should have been more soul searching a couple of years ago. For me the big question was 'why do we keep coming ONLY 2nd'? because for me, coming 2nd was a failure. Maybe to the club it wasn't. Maybe they sat back and basked in the glory of being consistent, of always challenging, of not being a Leicestershire or a Gloucestershire or whoever. I know people here felt we were still in a good place. Me, I just looked back at the empty cabinet and felt sad that the era of Marcus and James and Alf and Compo all at their peak still resulted in nothing. Looking back now, am I the only one with regrets?

The best thing with sport is opportunities soon come round again. It feels bad tonight. Lick the wounds, try and see where things failed. And then next week, another fixture comes round. Another chance to get the CC season started.

If you believe the club is well led, well coached, and made the right appointment when Rose left, if you believe in the Overtons and the Barrows and the Leachs and the Gregorys, if you believe the experience of Marcus and Alf and Steve K will pull us through, then surely this bad start to the season will be just a temporary blip.

And if it isn't, then we really are in trouble...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:34

On Tom smith, were you more attracted by his batting average of less than 30 last season or his 4 wickets for 236 runs?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:35

How can one really believe in Barrow/Gregory in the CC, Nacxar?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:36

Wickham - less than 30 is probably double Barrow/Gregory...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:38

Great post Naxxar and agree with most of that - however I think we really are in trouble - temporary blips don't last this long !
As you observe we need well paid players to play a 4 day game as a 4 day game and not think they are so good they can hit every ball to the boundary but I have posted this before so will shut up .................

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:41

It's not a 'blip.'

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:53

I don't see us turning the CC around witn the current squad.

Little or no depth in the real world.

I suspect Tres might retire at season's end.

Won't want to go back to Div Two.

Hopefully, we can develop some of the young bowlers over the second half of the season.

But we need to recruit new batsmen from without.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:57

LOAN PLAYERS

Are we even in a position to go for loan players, and even if we were, why should we.

We have the third largest Salary in County Cricket.
Would the present under performers, (which is most of the CC Squad) take a cut in Salary.

No, and why should they.

Stick with what we have, and sort it out at the appropriate time, at the End of the Season.
Meanwhile we must continue to support our team.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 18:59

So, meekly await our fate, Roger Ivanhoe?

Do not even attempt to get better other than through hoping the current inadequate batting group save us... Is that your prescription?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:07

I don't see it as a blip either. I was just trying to be balanced and not over-react to another poor showing.

Cricketers are workers, like the rest of us. Why do people underperform at their job? Well, occasionally coz they're not up to it. But most of our team have proved in the past they are, although obviously doubts still persist over some younger ones being over-promoted.

So why else then? What would stop you performing well in your day job? Bad leadership/management? Inadequate coaching/training? A lack of competition to take over doing your job if you did it badly for a while? Lack of motivation?

I said 2 years ago that we were failing by not winning things. I got shouted down by the 'yes but we've nearly won lots' brigade. Maybe that attitude is prevalent at the club too, that we only have to keep on turning up and sooner or later our bad luck will end and we will win something.

And in fairness, maybe this season we will..maybe we'll win a 1 dayer but get relegated in the CC and under the terms I've argued over the past few seasons, I guess that would make this season a success...

But right now, it doesn't feel that way.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:11

I would abhor the idea that a Pro 40 win and CC demotion would be a 'success.'

I 'd gladly concede all one day comps now in exchange for CC survival

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:12

Btw thanks to Wickham for kindly and discreetly pointing out I should have said Hampshire not Leics when referring to ITB's bouncer from Andy Roberts and the teeth spitting out incident!

I'd feel fraudelent if I edited it now!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:19

If the Championship is the 'Holy Grail' then we do need to be in the top division to win it!

I too would sacrifice some of our one-day success for keeping that status.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:20

AGod.

No we do not meekly await our fate,but you cannot buy success.

We have squad of 20 or so available, bringing in a player, with respect that is not good enough to get into their current county team is not the answer.
One player will not win the championship or keep us up.

Do you really believe a loan option is the answer? Or is the only option you can come with.

Have faith, rather than your usual negative views.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:26

Well Naxxar and maybe others I for one think you are right. I draw a real comparison with my other great love - Bath Rugby. They also have a strong and talented squad, great support and are financially secure but not only do they win nothing they have lately been bottom end.
They also prove from time to time they can beat anyone but generally they do not. They also seem to think they only have to turn up to win and if they don't then shrug and move on ! After all they are Bath rugby. After all we are SCCC and we have nearly won everything but have actually won nothing ( recently ).
Too big for our boots ?
Too many overpaid prima donnas !
Poor captaincy / leadership ?
Not the best coaching team in the competition !
Too ready to accept defeat as just another day at work ?

The above five points have been posted ad nauseum on the Bath Rugby forum - perhaps there are parrallels ???

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:28

I belive a loan option or two 'could', help, Roger.

That's better than having a closed mind/blind faith in something that is clearly not working.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:43

Quote:
AGod
That's better than having a closed mind/blind faith in something that is clearly not working.

Are you saying that the Club,the Management,the Players have a closed mind and our blind to the situation.


What part of SOMERSET COUNTY CRICKET CLUB do you support?

If Any!!!!!


Name the loan player(s) that will transform SCCC.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:46

None of the above, Roger.

I was saying that YOU appeared to have a closed mind as to how we could improve.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 19:51

Roger. You are well named cos we got rogered today. Rather than sitting slagging off other posters who gsppen yo go to the ganes so glibly as you seem very good at what do you suggest we do? Or are you happy that we live up to your name every week as it seems to me. It's easy saying stick with what we have. Sorry mate. Have you seen hidreth lately? Give me strength man.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:00

A couple of points from me.

1. I too am a Bath Rugby fan, and I fail to see the parallel. We have essentially the same squad as has been successful for a number of years. The Bath squad seems to me to have getting progressively weaker for a number of years.

2. Someone earlier mentioned a suspicion that Compo would be back soon. I thought all along that even if successful he would (not necessarily justifiably) prove to be something of a "stop-gap" for England given his age. I half expected him back before now. When he is back, and when Marcus has had enough, I'd like to see him given the captaincy.

3. I think that without a dramatic upturn in performance between now and September, Arul should be released.

4. Loan signings would be pointless. There isn't any quality available. Except perhaps Bilal Shafayat! winking smiley

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:03

Quote:
AGod. None of the above, Roger

So you do not support SCCC.

And you cannot suggest any Loan Players.


As for me I certainly do not have a closed mind or have blind faith, and will continue to support my Club.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:04

I think we're all rather shocked by what has happened. The question of whether last season was a good team at its peak over performing I think is an important one. There are a number of factors that may be at work

Key players under performing. Senior players like Trescothick Kirby and alfonso Thomas have had extremely poor starts. You could cope with one or even two but not half the side.

The lack of conmpetition for places is key. Who is challenging for a specialist batting place to replace Suppiah. Who can can come in for Kirby? What on earth has happened to Dibble or Hussain?

The absence of a top player Compton who we relied on last season has been discussed.

The absence of leadership. Rose was a real presence in Somerset cricket. Marcus and Nosworthy do not seem to filling the breach.

On he positiv side Joverton, Leach Meschede and Gregory look promising. And Trego has done well.

It is worth pointing out that any county would have swapped their battling line up for ours. I wonder if th collapses have coincided with poor weather and seaming conditions and playing at Taunton our batters have become sloppy in their technique.

I would suggest though it is the bowling that is the biggest problem and the lack of magoffin style wicket takers despite the progress of Joverton and manly efforts of Trego.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:05

One was suggested earlier, Roger.

Get your Ostrich head out of the sand.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:06

FE - do not really agree re: the captaincy but do tend to agree that NC will probably not become an England fixture.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:13

Another possible loan signing; also from Lancs but has been out of favour for CC cricket: Stevon Moore, ex of Worcs..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:16

Meant Steven Moore.

17 first-class tons.

17 more than Barrow or Gregory, I'm afraid.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:17

Quote:
Kentish Townie

It is worth pointing out that any county would have swapped their battling line up for ours. I wonder if th collapses have coincided with poor weather and seaming conditions and playing at Taunton our batters have become sloppy in their technique.

I would suggest though it is the bowling that is the biggest problem and the lack of magoffin style wicket takers despite the progress of Joverton and manly efforts of Trego.

As is understood, I don't agree with a lot of your posts, but having seen Magoffin at Taunton last year and at Horsham yesterday, and seen our lack of bowling success against Warwick and Middlesex, plus the stuff yesterday, IMO you are absolutely right to suggest the real problem is the quick bowlers. The 'coaching' apparently being offered to the quickies (judged on the execution being displayed) is totally misplaced. Whoever is advocating short pitched deliveries as almost standard deliveries (seen the evidence with my own eyes) is not doing us any favours. I have tweeted to DN. All the quickies should be forced to sit down and watch Magoffin "master class" from the first innings yesterday.
I repeat. IMO there was very little wrong with the pitch - and few of the Somerset batsmen gave their wickets away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:23:20:19:36 by old boy!.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:26

Everything I read about Nick Compton's application, single-mindedness and dedivation to self-improvement suggests to me that he could prove a very positive influence as a leader.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:29

Short - pitching is dross, Old Boy.

But when a team has totalled fewer than 200 runs in a match?

It's stretching a point to paint the bowling as the main problem.

Sussex fans sat around me today did say that all of our bowlers, bar Alf, were ordinary, but still..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:31

FE - I'd take Neil Burns and the techniques he employs with Compton as Coach.

Apparently, the lights are dimmed in the nets and the bowling machine speeds go above 90 mph.

Compton credits such techniques with helping him - would not mind seeing them more widely applied.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:39

And the temperature and humidity are cranked up to simulate India etc etc.
I don't think I've ever agreed with you more!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:44

A couple of points from me.

1 There is no excuse for rudeness

2 Difficult to release a player during his benefit season

Looking forward to next 1 day match that I am here for. Just need to bat in the CC with the same confidence. As for the bowling, I'm still scratching my head.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:46

Yep.. Philosophy is to make practice harder than any actual match could ever be ( at least in theory).

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:47

I do not accept that any side would have swapped their batting line up for ours - sorry but a rubbish comment in my opinion - MT past his best, AS never good enough for a CC opener, NC away, JH inconsistent for two years etc, etc.
Also crazy to blame the bowlers although they are not very good - given our scores what have they to bowl at !!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:50

Lot of sense written there KT.

Very little from Mr Ron and AG, AG because loan players are simply not going to help - team spirit or cohesion. But hey lets buy eleven of them if they win us a game eh?

Ron - simply don't understand your post.

I remember a guy who we brought in who scored 127 on debut, we put him in loads more times anyone remember Greg Kennis?

We also brought in a batting machine from South Africa. I can never remember his name because he was almost invisible.

Then there was that star batsman Sanath something or other..... Yep didn't do so well.

This Moore guy. If he's got 17 centuries to his name why isn't he playing first class cricket? Most people are on the loan system for a reason, the older you are the more of a reason there usually is.

Bring 'em in as stopgaps but don't ever think of them as saviours. In this situation, as we can see, stats mean nothing. As much as you put it forward it simply isn't going to happen.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Slow Left Chinaman (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 20:56

James Bryant?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Peros66 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:01

Quote:
rodders12
I do not accept that any side would have swapped their batting line up for ours - sorry but a rubbish comment in my opinion - MT past his best, AS never good enough for a CC opener, NC away, JH inconsistent for two years etc, etc.
Also crazy to blame the bowlers although they are not very good - given our scores what have they to bowl at !!

MT past his best, you don't say! Generally in most sports your probably past your best at that age!

Along with Jos, still our best player!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:02

Quote:
Ronnie
Roger. You are well named cos we got rogered today. Rather than sitting slagging off other posters who gsppen yo go to the ganes so glibly as you seem very good at what do you suggest we do? Or are you happy that we live up to your name every week as it seems to me. It's easy saying stick with what we have. Sorry mate. Have you seen hidreth lately? Give me strength man.

I am sorry if you feel I am slagging off other poster,certainly not my intention, just debating IMHO.
Who goes to games? ..... I have only missed two matches(including away matches) so far this year.
Stick with what we have got....just my opinion.
Mate.....Not sure about that!!
Hidreth ..... I did see Hildreth last Sunday, he along with others is out of touch, remember last year.
Strength, maybe we all needs a few pills.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:05

Grockle - we need a temporary boost.

I neither stated nor implied that loans would be of long-term benefit.

But no sense or point in trotting the same failing line-up out every week.

They have zero form, zero confidence and they are producing zero production.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: litlekeithy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:11

The seam bowling is a worry. Most of the stand out bowling performances over the past three years have been the spinners, even in the early part of the season. The seamers success has been as a unit but that's clearly not happening, the Warwickshire game was instructive in this regard about who took the wickets and the tiredness claim.

In the short term there could be some changes (Kirby hasn't impressed for a while) and a new bowling order as we have the young players who want to bowl who have pace and height.

The problem with the poor batting is that in the short term there's not a lot you can do about it as there aren't players knocking at the door.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:15

Which is why you need to at least consider loan signings for the batting ( because thers's naff all in the seconds)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:23

Personally, if I was DN I'd ask the groundsman to produce the flattest track possible at home to Yorks.

Our guys need maximum crease time and a max points draw would be a good result, compared to recent ones.

You have to start somewhere..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:39

I just hope we can lose a few tosses!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:40

So, Meschede's 72 today and runs in the previous match amount to naff all?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:42

Quote:
FE
3. I think that without a dramatic upturn in performance between now and September, Arul should be released.


In our Chairman's book, he does mention Arul's ongoing knee problems and he said he would not be surprised that this might be his last season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:43

He's all we have in reserve and will surely play the next one instead of Barrow. I think he should have been in instead of Gregory/Barrow, neither of whom did anything in the seconds last season, for the past couple anyway.

But there's no point whatsoever kidding ourselves that we have much in reserve from a batting stand-point.

We do not.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:44

Shame, Roger, if that's the case.

Might be, partly, why he's been given a benefit.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:46

Any news on CK? Do we have a keeper next week ?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:47

Story was he'd be better. We can but hope...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 21:59

Would NC be available if there's a result in 4 days?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:01

Unlikely, unless he gets a pair or something in the Test?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:15

Quote:
Botham
A couple of points from me.
1 There is no excuse for rudeness

2 Difficult to release a player during his benefit season.

If that's directed at me then I'd appreciate you pointing out where you feel I've been rude.

And as for Arul, I made no suggestion he should be released during this or any season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:27

The team returns.

“We will do as much as we possibly can and we will be practicing again on Friday to make sure we get our volume in and making sure that we are positively reinforcing that this is the group of players that we want to keep going forward with. [www.somersetcountycc.co.uk]

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:34

Stephen Moore is currently playing for Lancashire in the current match against Hampshire so can't imagine he would be available

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:36

Right, I guess Horton has been dropped/injured then because Moore had been dropped last August and hadn't played a CC game since.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:48

Botham is clearly well capable of answering for himself,FE, but I really didn't get the impression that his comment was aimed at you.

The loan argument seems to me to be the classic:-
We need to do something; this is something, therefore we need to do this.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:55

No, FE, don't think it was aimed at you - and I think Both just misunderstood your point re Arul / releasing end-of- rather than mid-season...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:55

We need to consider doing something. As distinct from doing nothing.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 22:59

Thanks roger. Mate is a Marcus term I forgot you are his mate but you will never never be mine. Don't you forget it. Glad you get out and enjoy the cricket perhaps you will be good enough to your fellow spectators as you are not to your fellow posters. Do say hello when I'm around I'd be glad to meet you, us Scottish are paticlarly partial to buckfast but one probably had one pigeoned holed anyway. 1 and a bit day defeats are spiffing dont you think?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 23:27

Ronnie, I wish Marcus would not use the term so frequently, but that's up to him.
I am certainly not happy with the performance of the squad, in any way, and would have been upset to witness it live,
Listening to it was bad enough.
I feel that by calling for loan players, is a sign of lack of confidence in the current squad.
It's not long since we and others were saying we had a good squad, apart from the speed attack.
Somebody said... Bring back Rosie.....this is actually Rosie's squad.
But everybody is entitled to an opinion, and debate as such.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2013 23:32

Did anyone really think we had good batting depth, Roger?

I think it's more folks thought the first XI batting was really good.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 00:17

Potentially AGod, on paper we have a good batting squad, when you include Compo, Craig, and Alviro. When they are missing or not firing then we have to hope that somebody else comes off. In the County Championship we are folding like a pack of cards. I do feel some juggling around with the order might help,Tres down the order, Jos up.
But got a feeling that Tres is more likely to retire than move down the order. Jos certainly seems to be trying to prove he is worthy of a higher position in CC this season.

It should be remembered that the same squad has won our three 40 over matches so far with ease.
Watching our performance in the CC against Middlesex and then the 40 over it was like watching a different squads in action.

Are we saying that the last few years of the academy has been wasted, and we need to start again, Barrow, Gregory,Dibble,Waller,Jones etc not up to 1st team cricket?.

I just cannot believe that importing 1 loan player will instil confidence into a squad that is (IMO) just lacking confidence not ability.
Perhaps Elgar will provide the inspiration needed.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 00:23

Roger, your posts this evening have been brilliant, as was KT's.
When I finally make it down to Taunton please seek me out, I'd like to buy you a drink.
Talking of which...does anyone know if LoL is alright, he's very quiet at the moment.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 05:52

As far as I can see we have Craig Kieswetter returning from injury - the most promising batman in our front end this season before his injury. Someone called Dean Elgar who DN rates I believe and Craig Meschede who has yet to have the opportunity to show his value in this four day side. Naff all... some new definition of 'naff' I assume.

And... as your examples don't seem to be available... naff all (original definition) to buy in if it was even being considered.

I assume that you are forgetting Lewis Gregory's first season (one of the last couple you refer to) where as a one day bowler he was a real asset at the end of an innings, was playing for the U19 International squad (I believe) and developing into an allrounder prospect. Last season injury may have changed all that but it's one of those AG sweeping statements to say he didn't do anything.

I don't know what he is now to be honest but I'm probably more willing than you to give him more than a game before I write him off completely.

If that isn't enough to give this side a boost then you are advocating wholesale change and that has to be done with what Somerset has because I doubt there is the budget or the resources available for this glorious loan solution of yours.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 06:53

The naff all related to the reserves/seconds. Neither Craig K, nor Elgar are in the seconds.

As for Craig K it will be new experience for him in his professional career to come into a line-up where almost everyone is consistently failing around him. Won't be easy for him, coming off injury, to do that.

I don't know if Elgar has ever had to play in a side that folds like a cheap suit before. But he is short of first-class experience in England so, again, tough, tough challenge for him.

Craig M? Should have already been in CC team if you ask me but DN does not seem to rate him for CC cricket, having picked each of Gregory and Barrow ahead of him for the past couple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:06:59:01 by AGod.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 06:55

As for Lewis Gregory, Grockle, all of my comments relate to CC cricket. And in relation to him I mean CC BATTING.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 06:57

Roger - re: juggling the order;

SCCC seem obsessed with the idea of Jos at six to the exclusion of any other idea.

It made little or no sense to me to send Barrow in ahead of him in either innings of this latest procession, but there you go.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 07:42

Ahh but you see AG your reference to naff all suggested that the seconds were the only fresh impetus we had and that isn't the case now is it?

Lewis has not been particularly tried in terms of CC BATTING this season and looking at last season is pointless as wwe've explained to you so many times before... the winter is where one works of deficiencies. As I said I have no idea what Gregory has in store but I'm not writing him of quite yet.

The 'something' analogy seems very apt for your mindset in this. You seem too believe that your loan idea is the only option available when there are a nmber of other things being suggested that you will not countenance as doing anything. Those blinkers do create tunnel vision for you where the "AG way" is the only way.

None of the options are particularly wholesome but they have to be considered I agree. the loan option has been considered and you seem to be in a company of one. others will be considered and one hopes introduced and if they fail then Nosworthy has a reconstruction job to do in the winter of 2013.

Marcus considering retirement? Where did that little nugget come from? Don't write him off just yet in your 'rush to destruction' scenario.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 07:48

Quote:
Big Jim
Talking of which...does anyone know if LoL is alright, he's very quiet at the moment.

He was definitely alive and kicking (ten bells out of Tractor!) on Wednesday!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 07:56

Nothing else has been suggested bar things that will happen anyway e.g. Craig K coming back or things that SCCC won't do in a month of Sundays e.g drop Tres down the order.

Grockle - it was Roger that mentioned Tres retiring, so can you please address any destruction comment in respect to that to him.

Basically, Grockle the more players we can change (amongst the batsmen) for the next game the better, IMO. Because at the moment we have walking wickets with zero confidence and they don't look like they could buy a run.

The only other thing I can see is preparing a hopelessly flat-track so that even our confidence-starved batsmen would struggle to fail on it.

I hope to hell Craig K and Elgar do well - and Craig M too if he plays but it will be tough for them coming in to play alongside 3 batting colleagues that look devoid of confidence.

There's no way that Horsham track that I saw yesterday was a get bowled out twice for fewer than 200 combined runs track - not even close.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 07:56

Quote:
Roger ivanhoe
Ronnie, I wish Marcus would not use the term so frequently, but that's up to him.

As far as I'm aware "mate" is used when you are talking to somebody who's name you can't immediately remember or know. A more polite way than just saying "you". Anybody can call me mate any time they like! I remember 50+ years ago while I was living in Leicester on National Service, everybody called you "jack" and for a while back home I starting saying it!
(Sm128)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 07:58

Marcus calls everyone mate, from what I can gather, be they known to him or not.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 08:09

In Scotland we say Jim!! But that would be confusing on this board!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 08:25

It really is remarkable how important cricket (and indeed other sports) appear to be in some people's lives; sometimes unhealthily so, it might appear to the impartial observer.

I'm far from impartial' having followed my county faithfully since 1949 - well, I'm a mere youngster! But some perspective is still possible. Although folk who say "It's only a game" are remarkably annoying at times of sporting crisis, they may have a point. Perhaps more important things have happened this week.

Of course that doesn't preclude strong but civilised discussion about Somerset CCC. Some, maybe all, of the comments on here tell us as much about the person making them as about the current problems with our team. A statement of the blindingly obvious maybe! Sorry then.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 08:46

What a wise old (sorry "young") sage you are Bobstan.

Thank you for that very profound posting.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 08:55

It must be 'old' CP; I've never been accused of being profound before, ta!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 08:57

AGod, my reference to Tres, was that I felt that he is more likely to retire than move down the order, or want to.
It's also my opinion that he is likely to continue to Captain the side until he retires.
But who knows, just my thoughts.

I also would like Jos to be given the responsibility of going in up the order (No4).

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 08:58

Don't actually get what your point is Bob but I'm sure you are right.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:12

Quote:
AGod
I suspect Tres might retire at season's end.....

Shall I let SN know someone is posting under your registered name then AG?

There are other suggestions here that were not things that were going to be done anyway. And even if they were they are 'other something's' as opposed to doing 'nothing' as you suggest we are doing if we don't employ second hand extra players.

Elgar is an injection. Meschede may be. Gregory is not yet a busted flush.

I don't understand the absence of Dibble unless he has become one. Hussain must be on his way out and seems to be an expensive passenger this year.

As much as I wish Nick all success in his international career I can't say I'd be heart broken if he came back thirsty to show the England setup the stability he provides.

We have to pray Abdur makes a difference and George is back to full fitness (as the one dayer yesterday suggests).

We also have to hope that Chris Jones returns eager to start a significant career as a Somerset opener especially given your suspicion that the skipper may retire and Arul may have to

This is going to be a long road but there are still things to try and we have to try them all but a lot of them come before we get the desperate cash out and try buying our way out of trouble with other county offcuts.

Maybe we should all be grateful this year for the T20 break because it gives us time to regroup and possibly refuel.



(Sm72)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:09:18:53 by Grockle.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:28

Quite right Bobs...

Injuries permitting, who's available for the next CC game? I'm assuming that Compton, Petersen, Gregory and Dibble are not...taking into account short-term form, longer-term reputation and a "normal" Taunton pitch, my XI would be:

Tres
Edgar (does he open? Even if not, I'd give Arul a rest)
Hildreth
Kieswetter
Buttler
Meschede
Trego
Thomas
Overton
Dockrell
Overton

I think I've dropped Suppiah, Barrow and Kirby on form, with Petersen now unavailable. I've been tough on Leach, who's done little wrong, but if George is available, I'd consider him ahead of Jack. I don't think Trego should be opening the bowling.

I'd keep Tres as captain, and trust him to decide when he feels he should hand it over. I don't think that should be mid-season, although he may take a break from out for the T20 / limited-over period.

I still maintain we have a strong line-up on paper, but they're virtually all out of form at the same time - goodness knows why. I do agree we may have over-performed in recent years - or at least relied on a small number of players in each season (eg Nick last year) - especially individual batsmen rather than 4 or 5 consistently performing well. In contrast, I'd say the bowlers have performed more as a unit (two or three bowlers often taking 2 or 3 wickets per innings), rather than regular five-fors by individuals. That's just a feeling - I haven't looked up any stats.

We have a weak line-up in reserve - lots of potential but very little reality. Many postulated in the winter that this may be a rebuilding season - looks very like it now - I'd settle for staying in Div One and good runs in the YB40 and T20 (ideally winning at least one winking smiley)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:33

SP - isn't Jos off to England now? Champions Trophy preparation and all that.

So far as I know, Elgar usually bats sort of 3 or 4, but might be wrong.

For SA, as the "spare," batsman he'd been all the way down at 7 but then, obviously, that's a very strong batting line-up.

So that means Arul can't "rest" unless we either play Barrow yet again or bring in somebody from without?

Although I saw Arul's dismissal yesterday I really have no idea why he chipped the ball up to mid-on... it was a most curious dismissal. Prior to that, he did get a few balls in the middle of the bat, which was a few more than some of the others.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:35

"The slide towards defeat was as execrable as it was quick with a succession of poor shots and soft dismissals."

These were the words (or more significantly the 'e' word) appearing in a report of yesterday's play in the 'Daily Telegraph' and penned, by a new writer to me, under the name of Kate Laven.

One wonders whether 'Kate Laven' has been a visitor to this site in the past, or maybe the now notorious 'e' word is bandied about the Press Box with some regularity wherever Somerset are playing.

Just a thought.

(Sm111)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:39

I still think it will be a big ask for both Elgar and Craig K to come into a failing line-up without recent form behind them. The SA season ended a while ago, and Craig K has been injured, hence why I say neither will have recent form behind them.

At the moment you could make a case for dropping pretty much everyone from the top six apart from Jos - and I don't think he's going to be available for Yorkshire anyway.

If there's anything in the track at all for the seamers, then Yorkshire will expect to go through us like a knife through butter.

Grockle - I think it will be too late if we're hoping for the T20 break to be some sort of saviour for us - I think there are three more CC games before that?

I heard somewhere that Pakistan now have a tour in August, so I'm not sure if Rehman will be available to take up his contract anyway?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:09:39:47 by AGod.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:41

Clarence - I've got another "e," word for what happened yesterday ... embarrassing.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:45

Personally, I'd happily forfeit all the one day games now, if I could trade them for CC survival.

Obviously, that's not a trade I can make.

We might prove capable of winning the Pro 40, although one suspects that the CC form will soon act as a drag on the one-day side, too, especially with no Jos available.

I also wonder what will happen as and when we get on a one-day track that is seaming around? (as opposed to the three flat tracks that we've played on thus far).

I don't believe that we will win the T20 because the Finals Day (should we reach it) will probably be played on yet another slow turner and I'm afraid that SCCC's batting in one-day cricket has been consistently poor on that type of surface. And we've never seemed to learn any lessons either ... I think that was the straw that broke the back of Brian Rose's camel.... as he said "I seem to be telling the Captain and Coach the same thing again and again."

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:46

Quote:
Frome Exile
Quote:
Botham
A couple of points from me.
1 There is no excuse for rudeness

2 Difficult to release a player during his benefit season.

If that's directed at me then I'd appreciate you pointing out where you feel I've been rude.

And as for Arul, I made no suggestion he should be released during this or any season.

FE, apologies for not making myself clear, but it seems my learned friends have already interpreted my OP correctly, so I'll let it ride.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:47

...excruciating.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:47

....enervating.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:47

I though AG had the copyright on execrable - time to instruct Sue, Grabbit & Run, AG...

If Jos isn't available next week, and our only potential opening partners for Tres are Arul and Alex, it's gonna be tough! Elgar and Kies have no choice but to come back into a struggling line-up - not much anyone can do about that!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:50

Eviscerated.

That's what Sussex did to us.

And I'm afraid their attack is not exactly Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Garner.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:52

Quote:
AGod
Marcus calls everyone mate, from what I can gather, be they known to him or not.

Even my mate, Marmite!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 09:54

I didn't say it would save us AG. I said it was a time for rebuilding and refuelling

What will save us is winning CC games.

The fact that two professional cricketers have not played cricket for a couple of weeks is not a reason to ignore their possible contribution to a side with weak confidence.

Kieswetter and Elgar were not part of his Sussex debacle. What do you suggest we do? Wait until they somehow get first team match practice? Can't see how that can be done without actually playing in the first team.

You want to be a significant player? You step up when your side make the 'big ask'.

There is only one way to stop the Press using execrable CP.

Start looking excellent, energetic, enlivened and winning emphatically.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:11

Yep, of course Kieswetter and Elgar will have to come in, Grockle.

Certainly not suggesting they shouldn't play.

But I'd still like the club to also look at the loan market as I think the chances of both CK and DE doing well, irrespective of their own form, would be enhanced by having as few "survivors," of Horsham in the line-up as possible. Lack of confidence seems to be almost contagious in a cricket team.

If we could I'd put all of the top five from Horsham in the second XI for next week. Of course, it's unlikely we'd be able to find enough other players to do this, but there you go.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:12

Quote:
Bobstan
It really is remarkable how important cricket (and indeed other sports) appear to be in some people's lives; sometimes unhealthily so, it might appear to the impartial observer.
I'm far from impartial' having followed my county faithfully since 1949 - well, I'm a mere youngster! But some perspective is still possible. Although folk who say "It's only a game" are remarkably annoying at times of sporting crisis, they may have a point. Perhaps more important things have happened this week.

Of course that doesn't preclude strong but civilised discussion about Somerset CCC. Some, maybe all, of the comments on here tell us as much about the person making them as about the current problems with our team. A statement of the blindingly obvious maybe! Sorry then.

The equivalent of a Facebook 'like'!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:17

And the loan options also bereft of first team cricket possibly for longer will do so much better?

No faith in those already here but loads of faith in those cast offs who may be available for a price?

What a strange idea of logic and support you do have. But each to their own. Personally I think I'll stick with mine for now



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:17

I like that team SP. if Buttler not playing what about Gregory? They said he might be able to play purely as a batter shortly!!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:19

Quote:
AGod
Personally, I'd happily forfeit all the one day games now, if I could trade them for CC survival.

They're the only ones I can usually get to. However, I'm getting closer to the time when I might buy one of the Pegasus stables, so one never knows.

Arul played excellently on Sunday, so why can't he do the same in a 4 day game? I think we need a team psychologist or hypnotherapist in our midst.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:22

Why is bad CC form more likely to drag down the one-day performances than good one-day performances are to lift the CC form?
And why is it unreasonable to expect any significant contribution from Elgar and Kieswetter because they're short of match practice and coming into a struggling side, but perfectly realistic to expect top-notch performances from hypothetical loan players who can't get near their own county's first team (hence, by definition, short of match practice, at least at the top level) and will be coming into exactly the same struggling side?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:27

Re team for the next match -

Jos will probably have to join up with England this week. I guess there is an outside chance he can play the first day of the Yorkshire match an be replaced with a named substitute but unlikely.

I would be amazed if Craig K is ready to play next week. Next Tuesday is only 4 weeks and a day from the time of his injury. There are no signs as yet he is doing any sort of cricket related activity with the digit - be it batting or keeping work. I expect it to be a couple more weeks at least before he's back in the first team (although I would love to be proved wrong.) I would also be happy to see him bat at 3 when he's back in the team; he made a good job of this at Durham.

So we will probably have to bring in a keeper. Maybe this is why Barrow got the nod to play at Horsham; after the performance there I would expect Regan may have more of a chance of playing. Either way I would be far more confident bringing a new keeper into a batting line up that was scoring plenty of runs, when any scored by the new keeper could be seen as a bonus rather than a lifeline.

As I said somewhere else Craig Overton is out injured so can't see him being in next week's team (though again would be happy to be wrong)

Oh and Kate Laven has written for the Telegraph on cricket (and some other sports, noteably sailing) for I would guess at least 5 years.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:33

Hello Bagpuss welcome to the bunfight (Sm101) (Well its not a 'fight' as such but a full and frank exchange of views - don't ya just love these?)

We did discuss last week that Craig might be rushed in to cover Jos before he is ready. The other option is Reagan - is he ready for this mess I wonder?

I'm glad I'm not alone in my view of the seemingly inconsistent AG reasoning Index. I'm sure it will be explained to us all shortly.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:40

Regan is not ready either as a batter or a keeper I don't think and it would be difficult for him to come into this mess. I read a report of last weeks game about not taking straight forward catches etc. I would say if CK can't make it that barrow may be the man to don the gloves. Assuming jos cant play. Is this us down to bare bones again?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:10:41:48 by Ronniesabre.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:40

I don't think looking for a loan is the answer at all - EXCEPT maybe for a keeper if Jos and CK both unavailable, Barrow out of form and maybe unrealistic to expect Regan to lift the team with runs.

I would propose Bates from Hants, though I think Wheater's injured there, so that wouldn't be on (and he was dropped cos he couldn't bat well enough) - oh, it's tough isn't it!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:45

Quote:
Grockle
And the loan options also bereft of first team cricket possibly for longer will do so much better?
No faith in those already here but loads of faith in those cast offs who may be available for a price?

What a strange idea of logic and support you do have. But each to their own. Personally I think I'll stick with mine for now

For me to have faith in those already here then, at the very least, they would need to have faith in themselves, Grockle!

No evidence of that yesterday - they looked a beaten team from the very start of the innings. As if they had absolutely no expectation of being able to compete with Sussex.

They all need to get away from the spotlight and quietly rebuild confidence. I think it we keep wheeling them out in the first-team they'll just keep failing for the rest of this season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:49

I've love to take Bates, SP - great keeper.

Having an absolutely terrific keeper might provide a lift in the field.

Is Wheater injured? Should never be in the team ahead of Bates anyway, but that's Bransgrove's mess to sort out.

I certainly don't think we can rely on either Regan (who has not been scoring runs at second XI level, or Barrow).

If not Bates and if CK is not fit (although the club were trying to claim that he would be, I thought?) then we definitely need a loan keeper in, IMO.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:50

Let's not forget that at the start of the 2010 season, when Craig K had got into the England one-day side, several people here were very worried about letting some kid from Glastonbury take the gloves in his absence!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:52

Quote:
mikeindex
Why is bad CC form more likely to drag down the one-day performances than good one-day performances are to lift the CC form?
And why is it unreasonable to expect any significant contribution from Elgar and Kieswetter because they're short of match practice and coming into a struggling side, but perfectly realistic to expect top-notch performances from hypothetical loan players who can't get near their own county's first team (hence, by definition, short of match practice, at least at the top level) and will be coming into exactly the same struggling side?

I think we'll find that the only reason we've done well in one-day games this season is that the tracks have been absolute flat-track belters which is the only thing our batsmen can handle at the minute. Bet we struggle at Grace Road if it seams around.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 10:56

Oh and Mike, I'm certainly not forecast top-notch performances from any loan players that we might bring in... just ones that may be less (in the very short term) bad than a group of guys who are absolutely shot to pieces from a confidence stand-point.

More to the point, the move would be designed to give the players whose long-term performance levels are important a break and a chance to have a breather, re-build their games etc.

You should have seen the body language yesterday. The whole thing stank of relegation.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:08

We aren't talking about the people who were involved in the Sussex game - you may need to check back to get that clear in your head.

We (Index and I at least) are talking about Craig Kieswetter - who showed a good solid work ethic in his innings'' before his injury and I would imagine is desperate to get back into the fight he was removed from through no fault of his own. The other new arrival Elgar should be looking to show what he is made of as well and has no reason to be lacking confidence seeing as he has had nothing to do with the present difficulties.

It's those already here and READY to play who have not yet or have had limited involvement we are talking about. Nice attempt at a side step but it didn't quite work.

The other Craig is already here and has also not been involved in the CC as yet. Lewis is already here and has had very limited involvement in the CCC as yet. Dibble if he is to be involved is already here and has had no involvement in the CC as yet. Craig Overton has had limited involvement but is already here.

You have more faith in trying to bring in newbies from the benches of other counties? Good for you but please don't put your health at risk holding your breath waiting for that option to be undertaken. We have a bit of a bench full of our own to try first.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:11

Yes, Grockle, and I'm talking about those who were in the Sussex game who WILL have to play alongside CK and DE unless we magic up some new players from somewhere.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:13

As for our "bench"?

Dibble is injured.

Craig Overton is injured.

Gregory is injured.

But nevermind..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:14

Oh and CK? Very possibly still injured too.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:21

AGod- I was at Horsham yesterday and saw a very poor batting display. But body language stinking of relegation? Where do you get this rubbish from?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:31

They looked totally dejected to me, Angell Face. Batsmen trudging in and out, looking at the floor.

You're entitled to your own opinion/"rubbish" however.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:39

So you have changed the nature of the conversation to fit your argument. Cool. We'll stay talking about the new injection which is where you started this.

Are these three men injured for the rest of their lives? They will have no chance to play any part in the CC in the 2013 season?

Were you perhaps hoping to move 6 people into the next CC side on the 28th?

Were you looking to pop down the 24hour 'CricketersRUs' shop and pick up a six pack?

While you get on with your loan plan I think the rest of us will deal with reality and look at the make-up of the side for next Tuesday from the actual options that will be available and hope the next set of possible injectees get over their minor (hopefully) injuries that may not have written them off as options for the rest of 2013.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 11:45

Hoping, yes.

Not realistic, no.

But then I'm not exactly on my own with a lack of reality here, Grockle.

After all, it was only a few short days ago that you were trying to deny that this team was in relegation trouble..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:01

Quote:
AGod
Batsmen trudging in and out, looking at the floor.

Well I suggest you watch the actions of the majority of our batters in and out more often.
Tres, is a typical example, even if he has scored a ton, he does not look up to acknowledge the crowd until he gets to the exit gate.

Pete & Jos probably the exception.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:02

"They looked totally dejected to me, Angell Face. Batsmen trudging in and out, looking at the floor."

What on earth were you expecting, AG? They were getting stuffed, bowled out very cheaply, thrashed, with a performance their skipper said was embarrassing! You were after a song and dance routine, a bit of "Bring Me Sunshine", "Happy Days are here again"...?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:03

I didn't say that I said they wouldn't be relegated.

I didn't deny anything I just said I had more faith than you that relegation would not be an issue and you've amply produced evidence of your own negativity today.

I also said it did not stop me discussing the options to ensure that we stayed in CC1. If you remember I stated that if we won CC games then relegation would not be an issue as far as I know that is still the case.

But divert it away from your contradictions if you like the reality is still the same.

There will be no CC loans appearing next week unless we pull in a wickie.

Elgar (if your work permit prediction does not come true) will become an option this week.

Craig may be here or not but he is an option for future games as are all those other people with minor injuries.

Abdur arrives soonish and the T20 provides for a period of reflection and rethinking. I think they are all facts and not speculations.

So you keep playing at shifting your goal posts if you like and the rest of us will look at the real options available



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:05

I've had an email from the club this morning saying that Elgar has arrived - presumably no work permit issues...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:07

No, SP, wasn't expecting any displays of happiness - they would have been inappropriate, obviously.

But people on their way IN to the wicket seemed to me to have the weight of the world on their shoulders - it wasn't just those who had already failed and were trudging back to the pavilion.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:08

Quote:
AGod
No evidence of that yesterday - they looked a beaten team from the very start of the innings. As if they had absolutely no expectation of being able to compete with Sussex.


The vivacious Kate Laven (to whom I referred in an earlier posting) also said in her report in the 'Daily Telegraph' this morning that - "Peter Trego's catch behind off Chris Jordan was met with derision from the Sussex crowd......"

Not exemplary grammar by any means, but did those who were there yesterday detect that the Sussex fans were exhibiting dissent at our poor display, or was it simply a few disgruntled Somerset fans?

I have to confess to feeling very sorry for some Somerset supporters known to me, who had planned to spend 3 or 4 days at Horsham as part of their annual holiday, only to witness an unmitigated disaster literally from the very start.

Quote:
Botham

Arul played excellently on Sunday, so why can't he do the same in a 4 day game? I think we need a team psychologist or hypnotherapist in our midst.

As far as I know, Botham, Somerset has the services of a ‘Sports Psychologist’ within their set – up. His name is Jon Pitts, and he appeared on the official team photograph at the start of this season with the title of ‘Performance Coach.’

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

I found the following ‘Concept’ on his website: -

“The critical element to effective training is taking as much time as it takes to understand the athlete and their world. Only when an understanding is gained of the culture and environment in which potential is to be achieved, is it possible to create the methods to achieve. Jon has learnt that the key is in the application of the knowledge to the situation. This often requires lateral thinking, innovation and a dedication to developing the right solutions, utilising the best that science can provide. Without this foundation, performance can only be limited.”

Can somebody kindly wake me up when they discover what it means?

As an afterthought, maybe the players heads are being filled too much with such thought processes, in the place of sound cricket technical advice?

I clearly do not know, but would hasten to add that Victor Marks, in his role as Chairman of Cricket at Somerset, needs to be involved PDQ!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:09

"I didn't deny anything I just said I had more faith than you that relegation would not be an issue and you've amply produced evidence of your own negativity today."

So when you said that we were "Not," in a relegation battle, this was not a denial of anything?

Okey doke.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:10

Well we did say we didn't think they would announce him if there were any. Good news Shep. I hope he's a man up for a fight because he has a hell of a scrap in front of him.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:10

Wheater has a side strain which he sustained in the warm up before the YB40 match on Wednesday when Bates had to rush back from a 2nd team match in Middlesex to play in the match and is subsequently keeping wicket in the CC match against Lancashire. Suspect also he may get a chance in the T20 too so can't see him being a viable loan option

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:14

"Not exemplary grammar by any means, but did those who were there yesterday detect that the Sussex fans were exhibiting dissent at our poor display, or was it simply a few disgruntled Somerset fans?"

I would say there was a measure of incredulity, Clarence, at how poor Somerset seemed to have become.

Sussex fans began the day worried about the weather forecast and how much time would be left in the game but I think they quickly realised that it did not really matter as Somerset were obviously going to succumb very quickly indeed.

So incredulity/relief were, I think, the main impressions that I got from "Sussex fan."

Those around me simply could not believe that Tres had opted to bat first and I think they thought that taking ten wickets would prove much more difficult second time around. Little did they know...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:17

Did I? Please show me that in context on the thread and I'll try and help you out. Your recollections of what was and wasn't said by yourself and others has been a little sketchy today.

Although only waste your time if you feel it is really justified because I think most people have a decent idea of where we both stand without another bit of pedantry to try and prove your case is, beyond question, the right one.

I'm more than happy most intelligent people know my position but if you feel it helps YOUR case please be my guest. Bring some more of it on I'm waiting or the Headingly rain to stop



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:21

However, I'm getting closer to the time when I might buy one of the Pegasus stables, so one never knows.

Botham, moving to Taunton is one of the best things I have done, getting nearer to the cricket and making new friends.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:34

Having a Sports Psychologist called Pitts rather seems to sum up things at the moment smiling smiley

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:36

"But as you say and with apologies to Roger S, we aren't in a "difficult relegation battle" and we won't be."

----------------------------------------------------

There you are, Grockle. From yourself on the Middx thread. It appeared on 18 May at 7:40 AM (our time, not yours, I assume).

Looks like a denial to me, but there you go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:12:39:34 by AGod.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:38

I don't envy Mr Pitts at the moment, Naxxar.

I don't think these players have got over the failure to finish off Warks, IMO.

Felt like a defeat at the time - the players looked totally gutted - and CC performances since have, surely, been the worst since 2006.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:41

Chickens coming home to roost, AG!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:43

(but things can and do change very quickly in sport..16 points for a win and still 10 matches left..)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 12:52

In the CC, once the batting goes into a deep rut, it's notoriously difficult to get out of it.

It will take something (or somebody?) exceptional, IMO, to pull this team out of this batting slump.

And if we can't do that, then our only (slim) hope of staying up would be to find one or more bowlers that can take insane amounts of wickets between now and the end of the season and, thus, win 4 or 5 low-scoring contests.

I've no idea whether Dave Nosworthy is adequately equipped for this challenge.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 13:00

I suspect that Kate Lavender heard one of the spectators shout out "execrable" and incorporated the word into her report.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 13:04

Well it wasn't me before anyone accuses me!

I was more speechless than vocal about what was going on.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 13:22

Quote:
Clarence Parker
I found the following ‘Concept’ on his website: -

“The critical element to effective training is taking as much time as it takes to understand the athlete and their world. Only when an understanding is gained of the culture and environment in which potential is to be achieved, is it possible to create the methods to achieve. Jon has learnt that the key is in the application of the knowledge to the situation. This often requires lateral thinking, innovation and a dedication to developing the right solutions, utilising the best that science can provide. Without this foundation, performance can only be limited.”

Can somebody kindly wake me up when they discover what it means?


Hello CP,
What absolute rubbish IMO is that gobbledegook!! If you are right and the management are trying to get that concept into the players' heads, no wonder they are in a daze. At the tea interval on Wednesday I saw Tres in deep private conversation with Hurry and Nosworthy. Tres was appearing to be trying demonstrate something with his hand and arm about the ball moving both ways or something else - perhaps he was trying to develop the right solution, or utilising science?? At the time Sussex were having a rest from despatching a lot of short pitched stuff and off line deliveries to different parts of the ground.

I think most of all, we need young minds on the field who have no perception of fear - the sort of mentality you need to succeed in the shorter versions of cricket - in fact, of course, we have it in those games!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 13:30

That passage above does look rather as though it might appear in a DN tweet near you, at any moment...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 13:54

At least you knew where you were with Rose. Straight talker. Usually said what he thought.

Thoroughly nice chap that he is, Andy Hurry seems to talk in cliches, whenever I've heard him interviewed.

Dave Nosworthy tweets deep and meaningful quotes that seem far removed from the reality most of us have been forced to watch.

And now this, from the Sports P.

Cricket's about a bat hitting a ball.

Maybe these people think they will appear more knowledgable if they write/tweet/speak in such deep terms. Recent results suggest otherwise.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 14:06

Naxxar - I just hope and pray that Nosworthy does not SAY the sort of thing to the players that he tweets.

I mean what would a player be supposed to make of it if his Coach were to say all of that stuff to him?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Slow Left Chinaman (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 14:46

Quote:
It will take something (or somebody?) exceptional

Tres.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Slow Left Chinaman (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 14:51

Also, pro changing rooms are always filled with what might seem like ridiculous quotes to some here, so I doubt it would be anything out of the ordinary if he was. As with most other coaches around the country.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 14:51

Yes that was a denial of the fact that Roger said we were in a difficult relegation battle and we weren't at that point in time.

If we had beaten Sussex we would have been a clear 7th not in the relegation area so we were not in a 'difficult' relegation battle because with 15 games in a season after 5, no one is in a relegation battle.

They may have problems but they are nearer winning than losing. Even now we are presently NOT in a 'losing' season. We have not yet lost more than we have drawn with 9 to go. We are 17 points behind Warwickshire in 6th and then the others start to pull away.

Sussex are a mere 53 points from relegation - are they in a relegation 'battle'? Seems a run of 3 bad games will put you there.

I'd admit that after the Sussex match I'd say to Roger the difficulty had increased but it is still not difficult to avoid positions 8 and 9 with the time and opportunities provided.

I did say 'in context' AG. One sentence from that discussion does not provide that 'as you well know'. You asked questions after that and I more than explained my position.

It's a matter of faith that people will get their act sorted. I and others have it and you have none. If our belief comes to pass we will not come close to a 'relegation battle' or need to worry about one.

Ask again when we need about 60 points to avoid the drop and have 4 games to play.... that might be different but we are not anywhere near there yet.

I hope that helps explain.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 14:55

Some of the players are outside in the nets (not many), I saw Marcus driving on his way out of the ground, it could be that the rest of the players have done their volume already.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 14:58

"Yes that was a denial of the fact that Roger said we were in a difficult relegation battle and we weren't at that point in time."

And the point that I took up with at the time was not actually whether we were or weren't but on your assertion (which I deemed brave/foolish) that "We won't be."

That, to me, was the most significant aspect of the denial of the relegation threat.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:01

SLC - I don't know about Tres? Is he an exceptional leader?

Or perhaps you mean that he still has enough playing ability to lead the charge out of the mire?

It's possible. But the 2011 season was the last one in which he scored heavily....he may be losing the battle with Father Time?

I personally suspect that he can no longer carry the team as he once did.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:05

No it isn't. It is a statement of faith - you really do struggle with that concept don't you.

I don't deny it because it isn't an issue yet.

It won't be because I have a belief that my side can get out of this.

I know they are difficult concepts for you to process but they are no less valid than your dire warnings of impending doom because both are only presently possible and not yet fact of any kind.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:15

It already IS an issue, Grockle.

That's the reality.

We're;

a) playing badly.

b) losing matches.

c) in the relegation area.

In light of the above, it's borderline-mad to not view it "as an issue yet" irrespective of whether you hope (as we all do) that we'll have found some way out of it by the end of the season.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:21

Rather than psychobabble, it might be worth reminding our batters that last September they scored 396 for 5 in the fourth innings at Hove against Magoffin, Anyon, Panesar and co. to win the match.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:25

Certainly could have been worth it before play yesterday. Or before the match started. Or shortly after we had opted to bat first, but before the innings had started.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:27

Funnily enough, we were only one Nick Cook decision away from having won the same number of CC matches at this stage of the season than we had after 6 games in 2010, the year we were 1 point away from being champions.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:27

No we're not we are 7th as of today

Just because we are playing badly it is not a provable fact that we will continue to do so

We have only lost three matches of the six we have played and we have nine more to participate in.

See - the need to solve the "issue" is the same. The view of the picture is different.

You just don't get it AG... give up. It's a "supporter" thing and you just aren't - at least as far as any definition I'd recognise.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:15:29:40 by Grockle.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:29

Maybe so, Naxxar, but we weren't losing bucketfuls of wickets per session in 2010.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:31

After 6 matches in 2010.....Won 1, Drawn 3, Lost 2.

Final position 1=


After 6 this season. Won 0, drawn 3, lost 3.

One of the draws was by the narrowest 'unwinning' margins ever.


Not for one moment am I deluding myself that we are in good shape or likely to suddenly rise up the table like we did 3 years ago.

But I'm just comparing seasons, to show that you can't fully write off a 16 match season (with a break in the middle) quite so soon...

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:36

In 2010 we did have one poor performance -- which, as so often, came in the first game.

We then lost a very close second game at Trent Bridge, chiefly because they had Hashim Amla in their team. The defeat was by only two wickets.

We did not lose games 3, 4, 5 or 6 in 2010.

The biggest difference this season is that performances are getting worse as we go along.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:36

Grockle - I'm a fan.

I don't claim to be a "supporter," as you call it if that means being delusional.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:37

Quote:
Grockle
Hello Bagpuss welcome to the bunfight (Sm101)

Bagpuss is a lady, and as such, doesn't throw buns.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:38

Naxxar. The rule is stats are only relevant when they prove AG's particular view of things you should know that by now.

Hit him with belief.... he struggles with that concept because he can't measure it.

It isn't where we are. It's where we will be at 6 on the final day of the season. You can't predict that with certainty any more than anyone else can..

You can hypothesise as much as you want but your points are no more valid than the belief of a supporter simply because they are supposedly backed up with what has gone before. The Sussex game may be your indicator of a lost cause but it could also be the catalyst... you know as much as the rest of us and trying to quantify it does not change that in any way at all.

Especially if you tend to be selective about what you include and what you don't.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:42

Quote:
AGod
Grockle - I'm a fan.
I don't claim to be a "supporter," as you call it if that means being delusional.

And asinine comments like that indicate a sadly inflated ego but never mind it takes all sorts.

Just lost this one though little boy must try harder to keep control.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:43

Not being selective about anything.

We are currently in a whole heap of trouble, with our captain publicly admitting that he does not know why things are going so badly awry.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:45

And the second sentence of your 15:42 post does not appear to be English, or at least not in a form that I recognise.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 15:52

Yep there are lots of things you don't understand... part of the problem.

I'm personally done with you and this. The moment you start insulting, the game is over and it's not worth the tapping time. A bientot



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:25:10:00:51 by Grockle.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Naxxar (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:00

My health has deteriorated so badly lately, I don't think if we go down, I will ever see us win the CC, considering it would then be 2015 at the earliest. I so need us to stay up sad smiley

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:03

The "doom and gloom" merchants on here, and down my local pub as well, all predicted on Wednesday evening that Somerset would lose the Sussex match by an innings.

They were all of course correct.

But, is that defeatist mindset in the heads of the players, as well as Old Frazer and company?

I suspect that it very well may be.

But the question is, how do the players get out of it?

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:03

Not much comfort from the second eleven scoreboard I fear - must be catching !
And sadly GH must go down as the worst signing ever ( or up there anyway )

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: rodders12 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:10

Well CP - someone much better at sport than me - Lynn Davies the long jumper actually - once said to me that success in sport is 20% ability, 20% fitness and 60% in your head. I know that he exaggerated the figures to make his point but I always remember the conversation over dinner because he was quite robust in his argument. He followed up by saying that good losers never win anything.
Doesn't mean he was right of course but he was Olympic / World / European champion so he is worth giving credence to I reckon !

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:25

Clarence - as I say the players certainly looked to me as though they expected to fail/lose yesterday.

Of course, I also expected them to do that but my expectations shouldn't have any effect on their performance level, whereas their own expectations...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:16:34:15 by AGod.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:26

Naxxar, sorry to hear that.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:31

Personally, I don't think it's at all likely that we will win a CC unless and until we go to a more "balanced," batting line-up with a greater number of guys that are prepared to value crease occupation and putting a high price on their wicket, rather than a heavily stroke-player based line-up.

Brian Rose said something to the effect of "We could win the CC with a more attritional approach to our batting, but I don't think Somerset fans would want to see that."

Well, ultimately, the club is surely here to win things?

And if the Director of Cricket believed that a more attritional approach to batting would be more likely to deliver the CC, then I think Brian should have re-calibrated things accordingly.

I believe that the reason Brian mentioned this was because both Lancs and Warks had used an attritional approach in their recent CC successes.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:34

Quote:
Naxxar
My health has deteriorated so badly lately, I don't think if we go down, I will ever see us win the CC, considering it would then be 2015 at the earliest. I so need us to stay up sad smiley

Sorry to hear about your health issues. Heres some good news!
If the management (perhaps via the Chairman of the club reading Grockle) undertakes some of the suggestions, particularly regarding the bowling in my case, and batters in others, I am confident we will win at least five matches and finish in the top five.

Now I'm sure your health will immediately improve!(Sm86)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:38

I still can't believe, Old Boy, that management are deliberately following a policy of having the bowlers bowl short?

Surely it must be faulty radars from the bowlers?

If the short stuff is a management mandated policy?

Then I think management should be sacked.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:40

Quote:
rodders12
Not much comfort from the second eleven scoreboard I fear - must be catching !
And sadly GH must go down as the worst signing ever ( or up there anyway )

Regan made all of nine to go with not many in the first dig so certainly would not appear to be in great form, should we be forced to call upon him in the absence of both Jos and Craig K.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Slow Left Chinaman (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 16:53

It's always easy to say "pitch it up" - we always hear it said about England.

The trouble is, if a bowler consciously forces himself to pitch up, then the ball often floats onto a drive length - I think it needs to come from longer term changes to their 'natural length' than a quick instruction.

Also you would presume Joverton's best length should be slightly back, and I think Kirby has always been an on or back of a length bowler. Thomas is different (and has bowled with more success...).

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 17:52

SL: your comments seem, to this layman, to be spot on. In the last two matches, Kirby has given away more runs through over-pitching, rather than through bowling short. Thomas tends to bowl a fuller length and kiss the surface. Magoffin bowled a good length and beat batsmen through a bit of movement off the seam.

While Jove's natural length is, as you say, slightly back of a length, he has an effective yorker (which he might use more frequently).

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 18:36

Try not to worry too much, we won't go down, we won't win the thing this year, but we won't go down...given our wobbly start I'm afraid it's going to be mid div mediocrity come the time the slightly portly girl lubricates her vocal chords...but hey-ho, we can't win em all.
Can we?
As I said earlier, we don't need to alter to much, if we need to change anything at all.
When things suddenly go wrong with quality sportsmen, when you can't work out why, then it really is a case of back to basics, lots of nets, lots of honesty, washed down with plenty of laughter.
We really are one session away from getting things back on track, the failure to knock over that last Warwickshire wicket may have left a bigger mental scar than we thought.
Fear not chaps and chapesses, things are going to be fine.

If not then blame LoL, he made me do it.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 18:48

I also think that Steve, because of his temperament is also likely to be one who tries to hard solve problems and sometimes over compensates. Wearing your heart on your sleeve doesn't always work in your favour. Some times you have to step back and take a breath

He'll be burning over this whole thing. Wouldn't want to be the one to tell him he isn't playing in a game in the next couple of weeks.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grizzzly (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 23:05

Have been unable to view the Grockles site for some weeks, due to technical issues (anyone know what 'error 503' is ?), so have had to resort to using someone else's laptop in a coffee shop !

What can one say about our four day decline ? For once AG's favourite word seems entirely appropriate.

Don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but a lack of confidence as bad as this suggests a major change is needed & I really do wonder whether Marcus is the man for the Captaincy any longer.

It is all about momentum. We have it in spades,............. trouble is it's reverse momentum.

(Although the opposite aplies in the 40 over version - seems nuts to me that a talented team can play like demons in one competition & like a bunch of fairies in another) ?

Can't help thinking that things could/would have been so much different if we had enforced the follow on against Warwickshire. We were on top big time, but let them off the hook. That (presumably) was the Captains decision and i.m.h.o demonstrated once again our lack of conviction.

A change mid term is never ideal, but frankly, if we carry on like this I fear we will regret not giving someone else at least the chance of keeping us up.

Marcus can still flourish at what he is best at. I don't think that is being Captain & also can't help wondering if he will come to that conclusion himself if we put in yet another embarrassing performance.

As for DN, well, early days I suppose, but he needs to read the riot act to quite a number of the players. Arul, James & Barrow to name a few.

Shape up or ship out chaps. If you can stomach continually performing like you have recently, then please leave the room now.

If not, then please stand up & be counted.

Grizzzly

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 23:21

Grizzzly.

Have been unable to view the Grockles site for some weeks, due to technical issues (anyone know what 'error 503' is ?), so have had to resort to using someone else's laptop in a coffee shop

Grockle will tell you I had a problem where I couldn't get on this site with similar reasons given.

I solved the problem by switching the router off for a while at the mains (I did it overnight) when I switched it on again verything worked okay.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2013 23:35

BJ says you can blame me and that's fine. I can take it if I am guilty of not sinking into despair, of still holding out some hope for this season and even more for seasons to come, and of still enjoying a day at the cricket, even if on Wednesday I wore a winter coat but returned home with sunburn (possibly caused by the wind), for I had hugely enjoyed being with old friends and meeting two new ones, namely the sprightly old boy! and the coltish Casomer.

There's no need for me to add to the analysis and I am not equipped to do so anyway, though I would add we were treated to a magnificent display of metronomic fast medium bowling on day one, of which Caddick or McGrath would have been proud. It's a recurrent theme: Caddick bowls out Lancashire and we marvel at his magnificence; Somerset are dismissed by (on the day) an equally fine display of bowling and we wail at our ineptitude.

Of course things are not going well and there are technical (and possibly psychological) things to put right, but there is too much talent for the side to sink totally and none of us has aged more than twenty-four hours a day this week (or if we have our priorities are wrong).



LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:23:54:19 by Loyal of Lhasa..

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2013 00:23

Psychologically, defending awful totals must be tough. There might be a tendency to attempt too much. And that's a general comment rather than SK specific.

Edited to remove pointless poster quote



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:25:11:13:26 by Grockle.

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2013 07:57

Quote:
Loyal of Lhasa.
the sprightly old boy! and the coltish Casomer.
there is too much talent for the side to sink totally and none of us has aged more than twenty-four hours a day this week (or if we have our priorities are wrong).

The last bit is put very well LOL, although the last couple of days cold weather has affected my sprightliness and I reckon Casomer will have put back on his winter coat before he runs in the Derby!!

(Sm154)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2013 08:33

Calmly collected assessment as always LoL. These youngsters, too hot blooded, too serious, sweating the small stuff far too readily.

There's still cricket at the ground and jam for tea.



(Sm72)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2013 15:10

Quote:
Botham
Quote:
Grockle
Hello Bagpuss welcome to the bunfight (Sm101)

Bagpuss is a lady, and as such, doesn't throw buns.

Just so's you know, I have never thrown a bun in my life.
I always keep my elbow impeccably straight!

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2013 16:11

Of course - if you had you would have been a hot cross bunny!!!(Sm46)

 
Re: Success in Sussex CC1
Posted by: mikeindex (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2013 19:51

I have an inkling that Bagpuss's throw, if required, would be formidably fast and straight. I for one would not wish to get in the way of the bun in question.

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