Somerset
CC1 the Second - Abell finally gets his "Wark"ing Orders!!
By Grockle
August 15 2014
Will it be Jack in white or George? Will they be able to squeeze Johann into the team and if not what is the opening plan? Will one of the Overtons play? Will Tim Groenewald make his CC1 debut? All questions for the restart of the Championship season after s stupidly long lay off. I thought they had sorted this out!! And the surorise is that Tom Abell makes his debut!! Sorry about the headline.
v WARWICKSHIRE CC1 @ Taunton Friday 15 August 2014
TuneIn App BBC Live Event Number 15
A delayed start at Taunton because of a wet outfield. Marcus has won the toss and on a greentop (greener than any other wicket I've seen here) he has put the visitors in.
The side has a couple of suprises;
Trescothick, Myburgh, Compton, Abell, Hildreth, Barrow, Trego, Gregory, Overton C, Thomas, Dockrell
Tom Abell gets his chance after a sensible decision is made about Alviro Petersen who flew in overnight and was taking his luggage out of the car first thing this morning. A number of supporters have been asking about when Abell wold get his chance and here we are. The other suprise is the inclusion of George instead of Jack Leach who has done nothing wrong in his games. The management say it is no comment on his performance so one wonders what the reason is. I hope someone has explained it to the young spinner.
The pitch is far across in front of the Gimblett with a sight screen at the end of the OP. An unusual choice for this part of the season and possibly forced by the weather?
Thomas opens for us against Chopra (who makes loads of runs here) and gets him 4th ball with one that he snicks to gully and the grateful hands of Lewis Gregory. Porterfield arrives a little earlier than he would have been expecting here and the decision to bowl seems a sensible one. A more tentative Warwickshire partnership then tries to establish itself against Lewis and Alf. They have reached 31 by the 10th and Trego is introduced at the OP for the 11th. Two balls later they get a let off as Westwood snicks a pretty regulation chance to Lewis at third slip. He goes for it, misses and smashes into Nick in the gully. First drop of the day and one he probably should have left to the gully fielder!!
It seems Alviro has an 'unspecified knee problem' and would not have played. He had a fitness test before travelling and according to Ivo he was taxied from Heathrow.
No more worries for the opponents before lunch at 1:15. They go in at 62 for 1 after 18 overs. Somerset would have probably wished for a little more than that and will want to come out firing after the break.
That is exactly what they do. Lewis takes the ball and with his third delivery skittles Porterfield with only two more runs added. Jonathan Trott strides out, hits two consecutive fours with great authority, takes a single and prepares to face Craig Overton who has him caught behind off his first ball of the second spell. Warwickshire are not having a great post lunch experience.
The Somerset position has improved markedly and they probably feel this is where they ought to have been at 78 for 3 after 20 overs. They keep the foot very firmly on Hain and Westwood. It isn't until the first ball of the 26th that the latter reaches his 50 off 74 balls with 9 fours. He takes his county past 100 with another boundary off the next ball. It's the 31st before they get to 110 and the vefy next delivery from Lewis, Hain swishes and is pouched in the slips by the skipper.
Ambrose arrives at 110 for 4 with Westwood holding the Burmmie's innings together and runs very hard to come by under the attack of Gregory and Overton followed by Gregory and Thomas.
Progress is slow as Ambrose and Westwood set themselves and they think they've got away with one when Trigger dropped Ambrose at first slip at 127 for 4 off Thomas. Their relief is short lived though because he then gets the same bagsman to feather one to the keeper at 144 adn we have them 5 down.
George comes on for the first time in the 45th after a Westwood four takes the Bears past 150 in the 42nd. It's all a bit slow but steady and so it remains as the session meanders through the afternoon towards Tea, neither Westwood or Clarke are particularly expansive or eager to move the game along and while the Somerset bowlers applu themselves to the task manfully there isn't a lot there to worry the batsmen unduly.Tea arrives at 4:10 with 177 for 5 to the opponents and 52 overs of the day completed. The break doesn't seem to change much and the strolling nature of this first day continues into the final session.
Speed does pick up slightly and the 200 duly arrives with a Clarke boundary halfway through the 57th. We need to split these two before they get motoring. The breakthrough finally comes from Craig Overton at the end of the 58th when he gets Clarke to make a mistake which Trego picks up and Warwickshire are 211 for 6. Time for Dockrell to come back and push it through.
Westwood goes to his first 100 for 2 years in the 63rd off 182 balls with 14 fours (at 224 for 6). A valuable contribution to his county's total but not the most memorable three figures you'll ever see. Still it is what he is there for and the Brummies just keep grinding it out while we look vainly for wickets.
This has become one of those games where you wait for the next milestone to report and can think of very little hapoening in between. Warwickshire do this to us quite a lot as well. They just trundle forward and wear us down. The 250 arrives halfway through the 67th with a SIX off Dockrell who has looked pretty ineffective in this game and ceryainky has yet to justify his preferment over Leach. Not loose but not threatening in the slightest. With 18 overs to go, a late finish is on the cards but there is little to suggest that anything will happen other than Warwickshire will continue to accumulate runs at the present rate.
But I'm wrong as Jones tries to pull Trigger and is caught behind at 264 for 7 with 42 to his name. The consensus is that Somerset have dropped 4 today. The most obvious is the Westwood spill by Gregory on 24 but it hasn't been good and is becoming something of a normal state of affairs. Pete was credited with another drop but he was too far back and it did not carry. Is that a drop because he was misplaced? We seem to have suffered at first slip since the Boss has reliquished the position. But I digress. The Warwickshire 300 is looming and I must prepare. It arrives without further mishap following two smashed fours from Patel off Trego at the end of the 79th when the same batsman finally gets Overton's 5th ball of the 80th over the slip cordon for a single.
That's me done for the day..... as Somerset take the new ball.
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
StumbleuponAbell finally gets his "Wark"ing Orders!!
Discussion started by Grockles.com , 15/08/2014 10:46
Grockles.com
15/08/2014 10:46
15/08/2014 10:46
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:24:04:23:28 by Grockle.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:24:04:23:28 by Grockle.
HURRAH!
Let's hope the short format, one-day, limited overs, RLODC, T20 inconsistencies can be quickly left behind as we prepare for a crucial match.
Let's hope the short format, one-day, limited overs, RLODC, T20 inconsistencies can be quickly left behind as we prepare for a crucial match.
Just need to win them all. CK back from Cape Town but probably not ready yet. Alviro back from international duty, thank you Colin Ingram. Will Jack stay in or is George looking for a return. It's all good stuff and probably be our only focus after next week.
CK surely will not be ready until next season?
Which of ourselves or Warks can make the adjustment back to "first-class," bowling lengths and "first-class," batting mind-sets most quickly?
How (if at all) will CC form be affected by recent events in one-day stuff?
We must hope that, in the case of opening batsmen, the answer is closer to "not at all," because Chopra (who usually goes well on our ground) had had a rubbish CC season, but has suddenly had a very good 50 over tournament and, for us, Tres has been short of runs n 50 over and the "other opener," from our CC team has barely been seen at the crease in first-team cricket (whether you consider the other opener to be JM or CJ).
On the other hand, might the likes of Peter Trego, Lewis Gregory and (if he cracks the team) Tim Groenewald find themselves in tip-top CC batting form in the "engine room," positions in our CC side?
Which of ourselves or Warks can make the adjustment back to "first-class," bowling lengths and "first-class," batting mind-sets most quickly?
How (if at all) will CC form be affected by recent events in one-day stuff?
We must hope that, in the case of opening batsmen, the answer is closer to "not at all," because Chopra (who usually goes well on our ground) had had a rubbish CC season, but has suddenly had a very good 50 over tournament and, for us, Tres has been short of runs n 50 over and the "other opener," from our CC team has barely been seen at the crease in first-team cricket (whether you consider the other opener to be JM or CJ).
On the other hand, might the likes of Peter Trego, Lewis Gregory and (if he cracks the team) Tim Groenewald find themselves in tip-top CC batting form in the "engine room," positions in our CC side?
Well if they don't we'd better hope the front end refinds its form or we are stuffed
I'm booked in for all four days and so I am hoping a four-day match doesn't prove to be a one-day one like [cricketarchive.com]
Now that's what I call one-day cricket!
Now that's what I call one-day cricket!
Brian Langford must have begun having second thoughts about his career choice.
the real stuff? I dont remember 4 day cricket/cc cricket ever being called that before.... whats going on?
Doesn't your compadre use that term?
Surely the "general cricket supporter" uses that term all the time.
Hang on, give me a couple of hours, and I'll find an article where it is used in a vague context related to four day cricket.
All joking aside, it may now be the only format that we have any real hope of featuring in at the end of competition in 2014
Surely the "general cricket supporter" uses that term all the time.
Hang on, give me a couple of hours, and I'll find an article where it is used in a vague context related to four day cricket.
All joking aside, it may now be the only format that we have any real hope of featuring in at the end of competition in 2014
I see Aliviro is in JHB according to his twitter account this morning.
I take that to mean Johannesburg.
So will he be back for Friday?
I take that to mean Johannesburg.
So will he be back for Friday?
Seems doubtful that he would be both back and rested enough to play - I think the flight is about ten hours?
Has Ingram left the country, do we know?
I was always sceptical about the info given that AP would only miss one CC match because there's usually some snag nowadays such as pre-tour training camps, or being kept behind for fitness tests or what have you.
Has Ingram left the country, do we know?
I was always sceptical about the info given that AP would only miss one CC match because there's usually some snag nowadays such as pre-tour training camps, or being kept behind for fitness tests or what have you.
Alviro is available for Friday...don't know how else to say it. Colin leaves today.
I suspect that if his tweet said precisely "JHB" that he is/was at the airport.
james hildreth's bedsit?
justoutside hatch beauchamp?
jon hardy's bungalow? (one for the youngsters there)
justoutside hatch beauchamp?
jon hardy's bungalow? (one for the youngsters there)
Quote:Grockle
Doesn't your compadre use that term?
Surely the "general cricket supporter" uses that term all the time.
Hang on, give me a couple of hours, and I'll find an article where it is used in a vague context related to four day cricket.
All joking aside, it may now be the only format that we have any real hope of featuring in at the end of competition in 2014
If that's reference to me exactly who is my compadre?
I've watched 3 "proper games " this season-all away. Durham (a winning draw) Notts ( the less said the better) and Northants (where we very kindly made sure I watched plenty of cricket before winning)
I'm on my way to Taunton for Friday so, am more than hopeful of a win- and I shan't grumble if it finishes early.
I'm on my way to Taunton for Friday so, am more than hopeful of a win- and I shan't grumble if it finishes early.
...although not as early as the Langford debut game? Wasn't that a benefit match or am I confusing it with another game at Bath?
Former Worcestershire fast bowler Richard Jones, who joined Warwickshire at the start of this season and almost immediately went out on loan, has been recalled from Leicestershire and is playing against Glamorgan in the one-dayer at Swansea today.
With Warwickshire`s length injury list in this department, and Woakes again in the Test squad, he may well play against Somerset at Taunton tomorrow - as will Oliver Hannon-Dalby, who was Somerset`s menesis with the bat at No.11 in the equivalent match last season. But perhaps Nick Cook won`t be umpiring.
With Warwickshire`s length injury list in this department, and Woakes again in the Test squad, he may well play against Somerset at Taunton tomorrow - as will Oliver Hannon-Dalby, who was Somerset`s menesis with the bat at No.11 in the equivalent match last season. But perhaps Nick Cook won`t be umpiring.
Yes, GM, that, very sadly, was Bertie Buse's Benefit Match. Benefits were an awful lottery in those days.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Here we go squad for Friday(Including Alivro)
Somerset will choose their team from the following squad-Marcus Trescothick, Alex Barrow, Nick Compton, George Dockrell, Lewis Gregory, Tim Groenewald, James Hildreth, Jack Leach, Johann Myburgh, Craig Overton Jamie Overton, Alviro Petersen, Alfonso Thomas and Pete Trego.
Somerset will choose their team from the following squad-Marcus Trescothick, Alex Barrow, Nick Compton, George Dockrell, Lewis Gregory, Tim Groenewald, James Hildreth, Jack Leach, Johann Myburgh, Craig Overton Jamie Overton, Alviro Petersen, Alfonso Thomas and Pete Trego.
14. One spinner but which one? Jamie or Tim? Which bat for Alviro? The rest will sort of pick itself I suppose.
For me it would be Tim and Jack in.
But Just wonder if they might rest Thomo, and give Jamie a go.
As for Alviro .....possibly J???
But Just wonder if they might rest Thomo, and give Jamie a go.
As for Alviro .....possibly J???
Nah. Alviro. All the messages have been saying since Sunday that AP will return to the four day side tomorrow.
Maybe neither Overton will play and we'll use JM as another slow man.
It's a good position to be in but after a lay off it is uncertain who is in form for this and who isn't until half way through Day 1.
Maybe neither Overton will play and we'll use JM as another slow man.
It's a good position to be in but after a lay off it is uncertain who is in form for this and who isn't until half way through Day 1.
I have some sad news to report a good friend of mine Geoff Turner has lost his fight against a long illness.
A long time supporter of Somerset cricket, He was well liked by so many people in Taunton and will be sadly missed by all those who knew him.
My thoughts are with his wife Lyn their family and friends at this sad time.
The reason I have posted this sad news on this thread is because I will be going to Geoff's funeral on Monday so I will not be going to watch the cricket that day, because of that there we be no photos of the match for Monday.
A long time supporter of Somerset cricket, He was well liked by so many people in Taunton and will be sadly missed by all those who knew him.
My thoughts are with his wife Lyn their family and friends at this sad time.
The reason I have posted this sad news on this thread is because I will be going to Geoff's funeral on Monday so I will not be going to watch the cricket that day, because of that there we be no photos of the match for Monday.
I'd be quite surprised, Grockle, if Craig O was de-selected for tomorrow.
Spin is the only 'on paper,' strength that Warks will have so I would be surprised if we produce anything even vaguely dry for this one.
We might even do our best to produce something very green and seam friendly and not pick any spinner? If SW weather has been anything like SE in the past few days then thrre will have been plenty of moisture!!
For both Middx and Northants, I think I'd like to see us produce deliberately dry pitches and pick both of Jack and George.
I would not be shocked if JO was re-introduced tomorrow.
Spin is the only 'on paper,' strength that Warks will have so I would be surprised if we produce anything even vaguely dry for this one.
We might even do our best to produce something very green and seam friendly and not pick any spinner? If SW weather has been anything like SE in the past few days then thrre will have been plenty of moisture!!
For both Middx and Northants, I think I'd like to see us produce deliberately dry pitches and pick both of Jack and George.
I would not be shocked if JO was re-introduced tomorrow.
Please let us know how you plan to get both of the twins in. Jack being added could cause a worry about the batting which is why Johann may be considered.
As I say a good situation to be in.
As I say a good situation to be in.
Could pick (for the final two home games) something like:
Two openers
NC
AP
JH
AB
PT
CO or AT (but AT to bat after LG if playing)
LG
Jack
George
Two openers
NC
AP
JH
AB
PT
CO or AT (but AT to bat after LG if playing)
LG
Jack
George
Two spinners if Jack plays will be Jack and Johann. The confidence in the batting will not be high enough to accept George and Jack in the side I would suggest.
Who is your second opener because you know who the other one will be.
Tom Abell is not in the squad so Nick will probably open with the skipper making a gap for someone else. Johann might come in as the number 2 of course.
Tim G not a consideration for the CC1 side as a three year bowling signing? They may give him time to get a feel for the pitch of course.
Who is your second opener because you know who the other one will be.
Tom Abell is not in the squad so Nick will probably open with the skipper making a gap for someone else. Johann might come in as the number 2 of course.
Tim G not a consideration for the CC1 side as a three year bowling signing? They may give him time to get a feel for the pitch of course.
JM will open unless the idea that neither NC nor AP should open is abruptly abandoned.
Team I would expect based on our last win at Northants would be to leave out Jamie, a spinner and Tim.
With no Jones then Myburgh clearly opening rest of top 7 picks itself as always.
George or Jack will play, unless he has found his radar Jamie will not.
So straight choice between Craig and Tim, assuming no way we'd consider leaving out Lewis or Alfie.
With no Jones then Myburgh clearly opening rest of top 7 picks itself as always.
George or Jack will play, unless he has found his radar Jamie will not.
So straight choice between Craig and Tim, assuming no way we'd consider leaving out Lewis or Alfie.
Apparently we're delayed by a wet outfield - anyone know how long this might be for?
The news seems to be that IF we pick a spinner it will be George. Nothing against Jack it seems though I'm not sure Jack will see it that way and I'm not sure why that is the case.
My guess, for what (if anything) it is worth, is that we will omit Tim G, Jamie O and George D.
Good stuff. The club has seen sense and will not play Alviro who arrived this morning. They've decided instead that TOM ABELL id old enough and ready and he will play.
We won the toss and have asked Warks to bat.
We won the toss and have asked Warks to bat.
I hope we deduct Alviros wages accordingly. We knew about this well in advance as this early flight thing was planned.
It would have made more sense for Alviro to arrive over the weekend and for Ingram to stay on another week. IMO of course.
It would have made more sense for Alviro to arrive over the weekend and for Ingram to stay on another week. IMO of course.
Good,luck to the young man.
It does rather beg the question why AP, who was apparently in Jo'burg on Wednesday, didn't get an earlier flight.
It does rather beg the question why AP, who was apparently in Jo'burg on Wednesday, didn't get an earlier flight.
Nearly 20 mins since the team announcement and no AG? Is he allright? Should we report him as a missing person?
With the delayed start, does anyone know what time play will finish today please? Is it 6.30pm?
Cut off is 6:30 but the captain's can go to 7 if they want to but it doesn't seem likely. Earlier start tomorrow is that possible?
Don't think they do early starts under any circs. Cricinfo say strip is unusually green - is that true, or is it just that their correspondent doesn't know what he's talking about and expects all Taunton strips to be 400-2 roads?
Not from their point of view FE. May change it now that Tom is playing. Something better will come I hope.
So would AP have played if not for knee injury, or had we already decided he was too tired to play anyway?
LG and Pete a bit expensive but Trott a huge wicket.
A bit gutted for Jack L.
Notts and Yorks not going particularly well.
LG and Pete a bit expensive but Trott a huge wicket.
A bit gutted for Jack L.
Notts and Yorks not going particularly well.
This game is grinding to an virtual halt as we move towards 20 overs to go in the day. 250 up with only Craig getting anything past the bat. Very little worrying the batsmen.
Just read the front report. When exactly did the "boss" ever field at first slip (except to spinner). Hildreth has been doing it fir last 3 seasons at least and has done a pretty good job.
Really? I'll take your word for it. Well it's been a while since he's done it either because he had a nightmare in the Lancs game here or the Notts game at TB when he dropped a lot of stuff. Didn't think that was at first but someone will confirm one or the other and I'll change the front if you're right
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:16:00:26:44 by Grockle.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:16:00:26:44 by Grockle.
Hildy first slip and tres second usually. Except When spinner on. Most definitely grockle.
Today's photos.
I have struggled today because most of the wickets were caught off camera.
You will never get a full day of perfect bowling and today was one of them, for me Craig Overton was the pick of the bowlers he didn't give much away all day, I couldn't understand why Marcus let him bowl with the second new ball and took off after bowling only one over with it and he took a wicket.
Looking at the scorecard Ian Westwood scored 129 but he was troubled by so many ball that is why he is in several of the photos.
When Lewis Gregory bowled where he should bowl which is not often enough for my liking he can trouble the batsmen, Ian Westwood was troubled by this ball from Lewis G the ball flying up to his face off the bat.
This is one wicket I did manage to take, William Porterfield bld Lewis Gregory.
Alfonso Thomas beating Ian Westwood's bat.
George Dockrell also beating Ian Westwood's bat.
Ian Westwood reached his 100 with this shot, I should think he didn't care if he missed a few balls.
Richard Jones tried to play a short ball from Peter Trego.
He wish he hadn't done so after being caught by Alex Barrow.
I have struggled today because most of the wickets were caught off camera.
You will never get a full day of perfect bowling and today was one of them, for me Craig Overton was the pick of the bowlers he didn't give much away all day, I couldn't understand why Marcus let him bowl with the second new ball and took off after bowling only one over with it and he took a wicket.
Looking at the scorecard Ian Westwood scored 129 but he was troubled by so many ball that is why he is in several of the photos.
When Lewis Gregory bowled where he should bowl which is not often enough for my liking he can trouble the batsmen, Ian Westwood was troubled by this ball from Lewis G the ball flying up to his face off the bat.
This is one wicket I did manage to take, William Porterfield bld Lewis Gregory.
Alfonso Thomas beating Ian Westwood's bat.
George Dockrell also beating Ian Westwood's bat.
Ian Westwood reached his 100 with this shot, I should think he didn't care if he missed a few balls.
Richard Jones tried to play a short ball from Peter Trego.
He wish he hadn't done so after being caught by Alex Barrow.
Have we any logic for hour delay today?
I'm sorry but the outfield was not wet, it was blazing sun from early morning.
If there was a wet outfield bad enough to cause such a delay then there was no sign of any mopping up from 10.15am onwards, why?
There was talk around that wet had got on the pitch under the covers?
Cricket just kills itself when you have a super hot day, blue sky and sun and they wait an hour to start. It cant have been that different between 11am and midday, it just can't.
If it had been a T20 game with 7500 in would they have delayed things by an hour? I suggest not.
We made back 30 mins but 8 over are now lost, you'd argue they could have been all out otherwise and our innings underway.
Oh and pitch inspector out for full lunch and tea interval, hopefully nothing to come of that.
Needless to say in blue sky and scorching sun the crowd were not allowed on the pitch at either interval, clearly were concerned of the damage to the already sodden outfield!!!
Cricket pretty even but see how we go tomorrow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:15:22:07:31 by wsm fan.
I'm sorry but the outfield was not wet, it was blazing sun from early morning.
If there was a wet outfield bad enough to cause such a delay then there was no sign of any mopping up from 10.15am onwards, why?
There was talk around that wet had got on the pitch under the covers?
Cricket just kills itself when you have a super hot day, blue sky and sun and they wait an hour to start. It cant have been that different between 11am and midday, it just can't.
If it had been a T20 game with 7500 in would they have delayed things by an hour? I suggest not.
We made back 30 mins but 8 over are now lost, you'd argue they could have been all out otherwise and our innings underway.
Oh and pitch inspector out for full lunch and tea interval, hopefully nothing to come of that.
Needless to say in blue sky and scorching sun the crowd were not allowed on the pitch at either interval, clearly were concerned of the damage to the already sodden outfield!!!
Cricket pretty even but see how we go tomorrow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:15:22:07:31 by wsm fan.
Arrived 15 mins late cursing my inefficiency, so was quite pleased about the unexpected delay !
Felt we stuck to our guns pretty well, for most of the day, albeit were clearly tired towards the end, when we looked somewhat impotent.
Agree with Mike that Cove was by far the most threatening bowler. His spell after lunch was excellent & he could easily have ended up with a five-for.
Not sure how this will play out. We need to bat long & with application, so let's hope we do just that.
Nice to meet LoL, Bristol Rob & Mile the lens again. What a lovely place Taunton is to be on a day like today !
Grizzzly
Felt we stuck to our guns pretty well, for most of the day, albeit were clearly tired towards the end, when we looked somewhat impotent.
Agree with Mike that Cove was by far the most threatening bowler. His spell after lunch was excellent & he could easily have ended up with a five-for.
Not sure how this will play out. We need to bat long & with application, so let's hope we do just that.
Nice to meet LoL, Bristol Rob & Mile the lens again. What a lovely place Taunton is to be on a day like today !
Grizzzly
I was told the reason for delay was water had got under the covers during the night.
Once again missed catches, have cost us any advantage we might have had.
Nine down, and I was hoping our openers would not have to face 3 or four overs tonight, in saying that let's hope this last pair are dismissed quickly in the morning.
Think Jack Leach should be playing and not George.
Once again missed catches, have cost us any advantage we might have had.
Nine down, and I was hoping our openers would not have to face 3 or four overs tonight, in saying that let's hope this last pair are dismissed quickly in the morning.
Think Jack Leach should be playing and not George.
There's a report on most of the play on the front page WSM. I had to go at 6 just before the centurion lost his wicket
There seemed to be no doubt at all that George would play in the spinner role well before 11. No explanation except to say that it was no comment on Jack's contribution to the one day games.
As I said in the report, I hope they made that clear to Jack because it seems to have made no sense to most people and unfortunately George contributed little in the way of teeth to the attack I'm afraid.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:16:00:32:53 by Grockle.
There seemed to be no doubt at all that George would play in the spinner role well before 11. No explanation except to say that it was no comment on Jack's contribution to the one day games.
As I said in the report, I hope they made that clear to Jack because it seems to have made no sense to most people and unfortunately George contributed little in the way of teeth to the attack I'm afraid.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:16:00:32:53 by Grockle.
Well I wanted to go down today, but I have to try and create a wicket in a swamp 
.
Anyway, when we're 50-6 tomorrow don't blame me.
.
Anyway, when we're 50-6 tomorrow don't blame me.
Same old story, putting opposition in then dropping catches. May as well bat first. They are now well on top.
Its highly doubtful that anyone would have batted first had they won the toss. Had we done that its also highly likely you would have had some other 'same old story' of yours to moan about. I've rarely seen a pitch here so green. It's a shame there was a delay. It would have been a damned sight harder to bat on at 11.
Re commentsre George. In my view he's been pretty toothless all season!!
Botham - I think the stats show that, of the last 17 CC wins at Taunton, 15 of them were by sides that batted first.
Batting first at Taunton is usually a fool's errand as the best you can hope for is a draw.
Disappointing to hear of yet more chances going down though especially as weather likely to be more conducive to bowling for the rest of the match.
Batting first at Taunton is usually a fool's errand as the best you can hope for is a draw.
Disappointing to hear of yet more chances going down though especially as weather likely to be more conducive to bowling for the rest of the match.
Your post makes no sense AG - do you want to edit it - as it stands you contradict yourself !
So Mr Abell doesn't open, lets hope by the time he gets in well have a good base.
I don't really want to know but it's one of those curious things that weigh on your mind once you think of it.
I wonder what the average number of overs a Trescothick innings has consisted of in 2014 is. I bet it's more than it was in 2013 but not by much.
It is such a weight on the rest of the side when your opener is more than likely to return to the hutch within 3.2 overs of a CC1 first innings. Though to be fair his CC1 innings times are probably his strongest by a considerable margin.
If it was anyone else but Banger would we not be discussing this in stronger terms. Would anyone else still be opening?
I wonder what the average number of overs a Trescothick innings has consisted of in 2014 is. I bet it's more than it was in 2013 but not by much.
It is such a weight on the rest of the side when your opener is more than likely to return to the hutch within 3.2 overs of a CC1 first innings. Though to be fair his CC1 innings times are probably his strongest by a considerable margin.
If it was anyone else but Banger would we not be discussing this in stronger terms. Would anyone else still be opening?
This year, in home championship games, Trescothick averages 26 overs in the first innings'and 22 in the second. Last season it was 12 and 17 overs respectively.
And he is our leading run-scorer in the Championship, with the highest average!!!
Thank you Cricketharris. I'm pretty encouraged by that. Thank heaven's it is only a perception that it is much less - brought on by watching too much one day cricket I suppose. Phew.
Still think he should move down the order though.
Still think he should move down the order though.
..............or even a double ton - sad really how we constantly flatter to deceive !
Well NF as at now their number ten scored more runs than anyone in the Somerset team and on the same pitch with much the same weather.
If you don't find that sad I wonder what would cause you such an emotion.
One or two failures you expect but for a team with ambitions of winning the big prize we have quite honestly been c**p most of today and a fair bit of yesterday.
Even after 66 years I still can't get used to it or learn to like it !
If you don't find that sad I wonder what would cause you such an emotion.
One or two failures you expect but for a team with ambitions of winning the big prize we have quite honestly been c**p most of today and a fair bit of yesterday.
Even after 66 years I still can't get used to it or learn to like it !
Update - Abell has now scored more than their number ten !
The other 6 of our top 7 managed 83 between them !
The other 6 of our top 7 managed 83 between them !
Great stuff Cape (thanks Chunkers).
If and when he is dismissed, he will be top of Somerset's first class averages.
If and when he is dismissed, he will be top of Somerset's first class averages.
Great 50 in difficult circumstances. Someone else should make way when AP returns!
As the great David Coleman would have said-
Quite remarkabell.
Ok, I'll stop now, I promise.
Quite remarkabell.
Ok, I'll stop now, I promise.
Nice to see Gregory going after the ball, he looks like he's starting to blossom into that all rounder Somerset thought he would.
He still scored another 17 runs or so after I wrote that, so I don't feel wholly responsible.
Wish I was there today to see young Abell. He seems to be showing some of the grit and determination that is lacking in some of his senior colleagues!
One of the board's senior contributors has texted me to say that he has seen the future.
What a shame.
But more importantly, what an effort. The future, indeed. Surely, he has cemented his place for the remainder of the season.
But more importantly, what an effort. The future, indeed. Surely, he has cemented his place for the remainder of the season.
I wonder how many AG was right posts we'll get tonight? Well there's one I know won't happen. Apparently toms giving lessons to Trescothick hildreth and trego. If I was them id listen and watch closely !!
Marcus Trescothick as captain today appeared clueless in my opinion as to how to end the annoying last – wicket partnership.
He is not a natural leader of men and neither motivates nor inspires the rest of his team on the field.
I remained at the ground until the fall of our 6th wicket, and each and every one of the six were dismissed as a consequence of poor shot selection.
Tom Abell played with confidence and maturity, and one might have thought that he was a senior player in the team, as opposed to someone making his First Class debut.
Very well played young man. I am sorry that you could not achieve the hundred on debut, but your time will come – of that I am confident.
He is not a natural leader of men and neither motivates nor inspires the rest of his team on the field.
I remained at the ground until the fall of our 6th wicket, and each and every one of the six were dismissed as a consequence of poor shot selection.
Tom Abell played with confidence and maturity, and one might have thought that he was a senior player in the team, as opposed to someone making his First Class debut.
Very well played young man. I am sorry that you could not achieve the hundred on debut, but your time will come – of that I am confident.
Well said CP - well said indeed !
As I am known for posting MT is many good things but a captain he is not and never has been and never will be !
Meanwhile we have too many past their sell by date I fear !
As I am known for posting MT is many good things but a captain he is not and never has been and never will be !
Meanwhile we have too many past their sell by date I fear !
Well all that matters to me right now is that thanks to the efforts of Abell, Gregory, Overton & others, we still have a chance to win this match. That's all that counts for the next 2 days.
Correct my man. But if the a senior players continue on the way they have been forget it. Abell and Gregory can't do it without help!!
Abell can replace jones then. wish someone had a pair to make hat decision earlier.
Quote:He is not a natural leader of men and neither motivates nor inspires the rest of his team on the field.
Odd then how there is almost total unanimity ftom the rest of the players regarding what an inspiration he has been and continues to be.
I certainly would no disagree with your posting of 19.02 CP.
My friends around me at each game would also agree, but within the squad at the present time we see no alternative, James the present vice captain and one assumes Captain elect, seems even less in the picture as the season has progressed.
It's that time of year again when contracts come up for review, not sure how many will go, but sounds like several will not be around next year.
Tom Abell performance today look very confident, a good runner, and fielder, but I suppose for the next couple of years he will be only available part seasons due to his Uni place.
My friends around me at each game would also agree, but within the squad at the present time we see no alternative, James the present vice captain and one assumes Captain elect, seems even less in the picture as the season has progressed.
It's that time of year again when contracts come up for review, not sure how many will go, but sounds like several will not be around next year.
Tom Abell performance today look very confident, a good runner, and fielder, but I suppose for the next couple of years he will be only available part seasons due to his Uni place.
Very well played to young Tom today, seems like an excellent knock and it's hard to deny that he has showed up some of his elders and betters today. I hope and trust it's the start of a long and illustrious career for SCCC.
Otherwise, I agree with brt above - a lot of work to put in tomorrow to get a win out of this one - hope Tom's innings will have inspired his teammates for the next couple of days. I rather feel that 260-280 is what we should have got them out for yesterday - seems as though the bowlers made the chances, but the catching let us down. An improvement tomorrow would be great - would love to see rodders on here in 24 hours time saying what a great day it's been.
Otherwise, I agree with brt above - a lot of work to put in tomorrow to get a win out of this one - hope Tom's innings will have inspired his teammates for the next couple of days. I rather feel that 260-280 is what we should have got them out for yesterday - seems as though the bowlers made the chances, but the catching let us down. An improvement tomorrow would be great - would love to see rodders on here in 24 hours time saying what a great day it's been.
Roger
- "It's that time of year again when contracts come up for review, not sure how many will go, but sounds like several will not be around next year. "
Who do you expect to go? Who do you want to go?
Marcus is top run scorer and highest average, I guess we want to keep him despite this!?
Myburgh I think has done ok in patches, im happy he stays.
Compo, a poor year by his standards but don't think we want rid do we?
Hildy - vice captain, a poor year yes but recently signed new deal?
Kiesy - 1 of best keeper/batters in the land, signed new deal last year
Overseas player - maybe not Alviro but guess we want one?
Tregs - surely not even a debate
Cove, Lewis, - both come on leaps and bounds
George - patchy but still young as a spinner
Jove - stepped backwards but still young and huge potential
Mesch - gone backwards but still got something and young.
Timmy G - just signed new 3 year deal and not even debuted in proper stuff
Jones we know has gone
Tom A - I think we'll keep him!
Who do we actually want to get rid of then? names?
- "It's that time of year again when contracts come up for review, not sure how many will go, but sounds like several will not be around next year. "
Who do you expect to go? Who do you want to go?
Marcus is top run scorer and highest average, I guess we want to keep him despite this!?
Myburgh I think has done ok in patches, im happy he stays.
Compo, a poor year by his standards but don't think we want rid do we?
Hildy - vice captain, a poor year yes but recently signed new deal?
Kiesy - 1 of best keeper/batters in the land, signed new deal last year
Overseas player - maybe not Alviro but guess we want one?
Tregs - surely not even a debate
Cove, Lewis, - both come on leaps and bounds
George - patchy but still young as a spinner
Jove - stepped backwards but still young and huge potential
Mesch - gone backwards but still got something and young.
Timmy G - just signed new 3 year deal and not even debuted in proper stuff
Jones we know has gone
Tom A - I think we'll keep him!
Who do we actually want to get rid of then? names?
Agree wsm, not much I'd argue with there. I guess there are a few of the recent 2nd XI regulars who might be most vulnerable.
There's always a few in the heads-must-roll brigade after a few bad days, regardless of what may have gone before.
I'd be interested to know how bad AP's knee is, and whether Colin Ingram would be in the frame (I mean for next yr, tho conceivably this if AP's knee is bad).
There's always a few in the heads-must-roll brigade after a few bad days, regardless of what may have gone before.
I'd be interested to know how bad AP's knee is, and whether Colin Ingram would be in the frame (I mean for next yr, tho conceivably this if AP's knee is bad).
Day two photos.
Some of the senior players must start performing otherwise it will be much harder to win the championship.
A day when a young 20 year old showed all those on a much higher wage how to play for the team.
Now where have I seen this shot before from Marcus Trescothick I know lots of times.
Caught by Varun Chopra bowled by Oliver Hannon-Dalby.
Nick Compton getting a bottom edge on to his stumps (almost) off the bowling of Oliver Hannon-Dalby.
James Hildreth was not in complete control of this shot bowled from Richard Jones it was skied high into the air and caught near the boundary by Oliver Hannon-Dalby.
Alex Barrow and the fielders looking towards the catcher Ian Westwood bowled by Jeetan Patel.
Craig Overton waiting to see if the umpire made the correct decision of not out, he did.
Lewis Gregory played a nice innings, this is one of his three sixes.
Unfortunately Lewis was out going for another big shot and was caught by Recordo Gordon bowled by Richard Jones.
A day I will remember for the brilliant batting of Tom Abell, I haven't look but I wonder if all the senior players scores were added together it still wouldn't add up to 95
Tom Abell walking off the ground after being dismissed for 95, what a shame he deserved a 100 after holding the side together and falling just short of his 1st first class hundred.
It was good to see several Warwickshire players shake his hand after he was dismissed.
Some of the senior players must start performing otherwise it will be much harder to win the championship.
A day when a young 20 year old showed all those on a much higher wage how to play for the team.
Now where have I seen this shot before from Marcus Trescothick I know lots of times.
Caught by Varun Chopra bowled by Oliver Hannon-Dalby.
Nick Compton getting a bottom edge on to his stumps (almost) off the bowling of Oliver Hannon-Dalby.
James Hildreth was not in complete control of this shot bowled from Richard Jones it was skied high into the air and caught near the boundary by Oliver Hannon-Dalby.
Alex Barrow and the fielders looking towards the catcher Ian Westwood bowled by Jeetan Patel.
Craig Overton waiting to see if the umpire made the correct decision of not out, he did.
Lewis Gregory played a nice innings, this is one of his three sixes.
Unfortunately Lewis was out going for another big shot and was caught by Recordo Gordon bowled by Richard Jones.
A day I will remember for the brilliant batting of Tom Abell, I haven't look but I wonder if all the senior players scores were added together it still wouldn't add up to 95
Tom Abell walking off the ground after being dismissed for 95, what a shame he deserved a 100 after holding the side together and falling just short of his 1st first class hundred.
It was good to see several Warwickshire players shake his hand after he was dismissed.
Tres has our highest number of runs, most centuries and highest average, I just don't get this knocking him or moving him down the order.
Captaincy yes I don't say he's the best, but not sure we've a better option, and I think he gets a lot of stick undeserved. He doesn't bowl long hops, leg side rubbish.
He gets little/no praise for us bowling a team out, but if we go round the park, fail to bowl out a tailender it's his fault.
Need a huge morning tomorrow, 4 by lunch, all out by tea and we can restrict this chase to 300/320, game on then!!!
Captaincy yes I don't say he's the best, but not sure we've a better option, and I think he gets a lot of stick undeserved. He doesn't bowl long hops, leg side rubbish.
He gets little/no praise for us bowling a team out, but if we go round the park, fail to bowl out a tailender it's his fault.
Need a huge morning tomorrow, 4 by lunch, all out by tea and we can restrict this chase to 300/320, game on then!!!
Had other commitments most of today, so only arrived at HQ at 5.15 p.m.. Hadn't heard any score on the radio, so winced when I saw seven wickets down.
Lewis then got out, but really impressed with Tom A.. Looked extremely competent, unfussy & as safe as houses, until he unexpectedly holed out on 95.
At least one part of our future looks very bright indeed.
Pity the more senior batsmen can't be the ones setting an example however.
Grizzzly
Lewis then got out, but really impressed with Tom A.. Looked extremely competent, unfussy & as safe as houses, until he unexpectedly holed out on 95.
At least one part of our future looks very bright indeed.
Pity the more senior batsmen can't be the ones setting an example however.
Grizzzly
The senior players are the issue grizz. Hildreth particularly!! I see notts and yorks were in trouble this morning. Not now. There's a difference and our players need to see that and step up. Personally I think theres a reason trego et al haven't made the international grade.
Yes, you're right Ronnie, JH, PT and others clearly have been nothing like consistent enough for international honours. However, their records and efforts for Somerset have been good, often very good, for a number of years. I think we should recognise and be grateful for that.
I'd love it if MT, JH, NC, PT got 50s and 100s for us all the time, but it won't happen. On Thursday, Hales, Taylor and Patel looked world-beaters for Notts. On Friday, the fell feebly against the tinpot Northants attack. Ours aren't the only ones who are inconsistent. I bet there are some out there tonight saying Abell should have got 100 today, if he'd played for another county he'd be stronger, cos he's grown up around MT and JH he's too soft, never be any good, don't renew his contract, ect ect...
We are Somerset, for good and bad, in strength and weakness. Let's hope the step-up gets going tomorrow
I'd love it if MT, JH, NC, PT got 50s and 100s for us all the time, but it won't happen. On Thursday, Hales, Taylor and Patel looked world-beaters for Notts. On Friday, the fell feebly against the tinpot Northants attack. Ours aren't the only ones who are inconsistent. I bet there are some out there tonight saying Abell should have got 100 today, if he'd played for another county he'd be stronger, cos he's grown up around MT and JH he's too soft, never be any good, don't renew his contract, ect ect...
We are Somerset, for good and bad, in strength and weakness. Let's hope the step-up gets going tomorrow
Frustration for me Ron s that they all have proven & undoubted ability.
It's the inconsistency & inability to focus that concerns me. Really don't know where the core problem lies, but I do feel we have to look at the Captaincy again at the end of this season.
We need more 'edge'.
Can't say I have the answer as to who will provide it though.
Grizzzly
It's the inconsistency & inability to focus that concerns me. Really don't know where the core problem lies, but I do feel we have to look at the Captaincy again at the end of this season.
We need more 'edge'.
Can't say I have the answer as to who will provide it though.
Grizzzly
Yep . Can't disagree. Hildreth when the chips are down is always a disappointment though . Had been for a while. Shame. Love watching him in full flow!!
WSM, I did not say I wanted anyone to go, but some will not be offered new contracts I feel, or not accept what's offered. I am Certainly not the of the head must roll brigade,after a few disappointing matches, been a member for to long to be that.
Tres will no doubt remain Captain of the CC side until he retires, but IMHO I would like to see him move down the order, not that I can see that happening, Tres sees that as his position and responsibility. I see our assumed Captain elect (James) as a similar type as Tres, and that concerns me, both being very knowledgeably Cricketers, but not strong on field characters.
Tres does get undeserved stick, but that come with the position of leadership, WSM, like you I cannot see a better option within the present squad.
Tres will no doubt remain Captain of the CC side until he retires, but IMHO I would like to see him move down the order, not that I can see that happening, Tres sees that as his position and responsibility. I see our assumed Captain elect (James) as a similar type as Tres, and that concerns me, both being very knowledgeably Cricketers, but not strong on field characters.
Tres does get undeserved stick, but that come with the position of leadership, WSM, like you I cannot see a better option within the present squad.
Who will not be offered a new contract then?
First team standard cricketers are very hard to sign.
Alex Barrow, Leach, Dibble, Max, Mesch I guess are the ones most on the fringes so guess may be some question marks there but the main 12/13 who make up our regular playing teams I would not want any to leave.
With Jones going we are going to be light on numbers for top order batters.
Tom A looks like he will help plug that gap but we still need 1 or 2 others putting pressure on our normal top 6/7
First team standard cricketers are very hard to sign.
Alex Barrow, Leach, Dibble, Max, Mesch I guess are the ones most on the fringes so guess may be some question marks there but the main 12/13 who make up our regular playing teams I would not want any to leave.
With Jones going we are going to be light on numbers for top order batters.
Tom A looks like he will help plug that gap but we still need 1 or 2 others putting pressure on our normal top 6/7
I agree we will be short on Top Order batters, particularly if Tom Abell is not available for first two months of the 2015 season.
I do think we have missed Craig K in our batting line up, I expect Myburgh to be offered a contract, and they may well continue to open with him if Tom Abell is not available.As far as who will not be offered contracts, like you say I think these will come from the fringe players, maybe two.
I do think we have missed Craig K in our batting line up, I expect Myburgh to be offered a contract, and they may well continue to open with him if Tom Abell is not available.As far as who will not be offered contracts, like you say I think these will come from the fringe players, maybe two.
Very poor technique vs short ball by Hildreth from the look of Mike's photo of his dismissal.
Against such a heavily depleted Warks' pace attack then yesterday must surely count as a disappointing effort, young master Abell apart.
Against such a heavily depleted Warks' pace attack then yesterday must surely count as a disappointing effort, young master Abell apart.
Roger, for what it's worth (probably not much) the Beeb commentators on our game keep saying that 'Hildreth is a very different character to Trescothick.'
They have, however, never elaborated on the point.
They have, however, never elaborated on the point.
As for getting rid of people?
We need MORE batsmen, not fewer to provide some competition for places.
If SA do move on from AP and he becomes a Kolpak, then signing an overseas bowler would not be the only option. If neither NC nor AP are going to open (and they didn't want to use Tom there yesterday either!!) then if AP becomes a Kolpak then maybe we should sign an opening batsman that Dave Nosworthy IS happy to use as an opener!?
We need MORE batsmen, not fewer to provide some competition for places.
If SA do move on from AP and he becomes a Kolpak, then signing an overseas bowler would not be the only option. If neither NC nor AP are going to open (and they didn't want to use Tom there yesterday either!!) then if AP becomes a Kolpak then maybe we should sign an opening batsman that Dave Nosworthy IS happy to use as an opener!?
A quote from Tom on the ECB site.
"I tried to stabilize things when I went out and tried not to give my wicket away cheaply. The people I batted with helped me through and kept me ticking along and the partnerships I had along the way were a massive help."
Perhaps it should have been the other way round.
"I tried to stabilize things when I went out and tried not to give my wicket away cheaply. The people I batted with helped me through and kept me ticking along and the partnerships I had along the way were a massive help."
Perhaps it should have been the other way round.
Do we have anyone other unearthed gems coming up through our ranks ?
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
He no doubt did not mean it in that way,but Tom's 'tried not to give my wicket away cheaply,' could be seen as a slightly pointed comment!
Any TA1 weather updates?
Been hosing down in Weston for last few hours but brightening up now.
If we start on time should be perfect bowling conditions before the predicted sun arrives this afternoon.
4 by lunch, 6 by tea, then set about chasing 315 to win, today is the day!!!
Notts nailed on to win, Yorkies appear to be on course for a good batting draw if not more. If we lose this it's all over, even a draw only gives us 11 points but key will be it keeps Warwicks behind us.
Been hosing down in Weston for last few hours but brightening up now.
If we start on time should be perfect bowling conditions before the predicted sun arrives this afternoon.
4 by lunch, 6 by tea, then set about chasing 315 to win, today is the day!!!
Notts nailed on to win, Yorkies appear to be on course for a good batting draw if not more. If we lose this it's all over, even a draw only gives us 11 points but key will be it keeps Warwicks behind us.
Quote:AGod
He no doubt did not mean it in that way,but Tom's 'tried not to give my wicket away cheaply,' could be seen as a slightly pointed comment!
Only by those that look for such things in ever comment, I would suggest.
it is going to be one of those day's, it is now raining the covers are on.
Alfonso seems to be bowling rather well in this match when one bears in mind that he is past it and coming to the end of his useful cricketing life!
My apologies for yesterday WSM if your comments about 'knocking' MT were pointed my way. I honestly was not attempting to knock him but having only really seen half the season and a lot of early dismissals I was genuinely of the perception that although he had made scores he had not been there anything like as long as Cricketharris informed me he had on average.
I want to preserve the man's importance to the county and personally think he has more years in him. But not as an opener. I'm not sure who would be the opening partnership and he may be there because the alternatives are not reliable. I also understand his desire to pit himself against the best.
I haven't come out and just said this. I seriously believed the theory of last year that against a slightly older ball and a slightly more tired opening bowler Marcus could be devastating and losing him in the first 5 overs of short format cricket is a blow to us every time.
The removal of himself from the T20 unfortunately suggests that it is opener or nothing. I think that is sad because I think there is a place in this side for him as long as his desire for the game is there. However presently he will retire on that basis before he should
But if he wants to go out as the opening batsmen that is entirely his choice. I'm glad he's making runs but I do personally believe he could be doing that for some time to come but not at 1 or 2.
Then again, although I will accept no other opinion but my own at any time I have been known to be proved wrong on more than one occasion. Although of course I will never ever admit that on these pages through totally illogical unwillingness to do so.
I want to preserve the man's importance to the county and personally think he has more years in him. But not as an opener. I'm not sure who would be the opening partnership and he may be there because the alternatives are not reliable. I also understand his desire to pit himself against the best.
I haven't come out and just said this. I seriously believed the theory of last year that against a slightly older ball and a slightly more tired opening bowler Marcus could be devastating and losing him in the first 5 overs of short format cricket is a blow to us every time.
The removal of himself from the T20 unfortunately suggests that it is opener or nothing. I think that is sad because I think there is a place in this side for him as long as his desire for the game is there. However presently he will retire on that basis before he should
But if he wants to go out as the opening batsmen that is entirely his choice. I'm glad he's making runs but I do personally believe he could be doing that for some time to come but not at 1 or 2.
Then again, although I will accept no other opinion but my own at any time I have been known to be proved wrong on more than one occasion. Although of course I will never ever admit that on these pages through totally illogical unwillingness to do so.
I love your 13:23 post, Grockle - one of your best. I agree with your thoughts on the way forward for the great Marcus.
I hope it's not the moscato secco talking! Me, not you.
I hope it's not the moscato secco talking! Me, not you.
Well, we've done a decent job of not letting them get away from us but aren't taking wickets quickly enough, IMO, to make me think that we'll bowl them out cheaply enough for us to be anywhere near favourites.
If it isn't the booze talking Bob you obviously aren't drinking it fast enough :0)
Unfortunately this game is not exactly steaming along. 77 for 3 in 35 at lunch has turned into 144 for 4 in 53 and no one looks like they are the one to take the next wicket.
It seems like the only questions that have to be answered are. What are they going to give us to chase and when are they going to ask us to chase it. Lead over 250 with 5 wickets still in hand. A Warwickshire batting collapse is not on the cards here IMHO.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:17:16:06:03 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:17:16:06:03 by Grockle.
Doesn't sound great from our stand-point, at least not from a winning the game stand-point.
Everything now depends on how badly Warks want to win it.
If they really want it, they'll bat for no more than an hour after tea.
If they really want it, they'll bat for no more than an hour after tea.
I have the feeling that other counties haven't come to terms with our present batting line up and assume that we are capable of chasing big totals at 4+ an over as we have done a few years ago and would rather be safe than sorry. However. having seen the batting in the first innings Warwick may decide that they only need a day - plus 5overs tonight to take the first wicket.
We've let Chopra do his usual accumulating ton (though Westwood took the role in the first innings). Warwickshire don't go mad but they are damned hard to get out and their front end is always 'sticky'.
Over 400 to chase? I'd back myself against the possibility of Somerset not imploding and chasing it down. As you say Geordie, especially if they get the wicket tonight. But while there is the possibility it makes for a more interesting last day because it certainly is not beyond us IF we keep wickets
Over 400 to chase? I'd back myself against the possibility of Somerset not imploding and chasing it down. As you say Geordie, especially if they get the wicket tonight. But while there is the possibility it makes for a more interesting last day because it certainly is not beyond us IF we keep wickets
Well it is only 4 on over. Keep wickets in hand until lunch and see how it goes
Well with notts and yorks likely to win we really have to go fir it so it should be exciting
So we need 403 off 96. Illness stopped me travelling down but tomorrow ought to be great.125 for 2 at lunch 270 for 5 at tea. 133 off the last 32. We must gamble our 5 draw points (which we might not even get if we try to defend) for the 16 win points-especially as has been pointed out Notts and Yorks are on course for a win) If we don't try then we shall declare that we have given the season up and I promise not to grumble if we perish trying Carpe Diem
Couldn't agree more, we have to go for it.
It wont be easy but absolutely nothing to gain playing for a draw.
I guess money men may prefer 3rd prixe money to 4th, 5th, 6th but as a fan all I want is the title.
If we go down trying to win I shall not complain at all.
Have to be sensible.
110-2 by lunch, 240-4 by tea then give it a go, we bat properly to 9 now, Alfie no mug and even Dockers has found some shots.
It wont be easy but absolutely nothing to gain playing for a draw.
I guess money men may prefer 3rd prixe money to 4th, 5th, 6th but as a fan all I want is the title.
If we go down trying to win I shall not complain at all.
Have to be sensible.
110-2 by lunch, 240-4 by tea then give it a go, we bat properly to 9 now, Alfie no mug and even Dockers has found some shots.
I agree - don't go mad but try to win - then, if a win is out of the question around tea-time, shut up shop and play for the draw points.
Sounds easy, dunnit!
Sounds easy, dunnit!
Day three photos.
How do we hope to win a match when I believe we have missed a total of eight catches.
Other will have commented on today's play so I will leave it at that and only comment on my photos.
This was a good wicket for Lewis Gregory, Ian Westwood edging the ball-
-to Marcus Trescothick who leans to his left and catches the ball.
William Porterfield playing at a short ball from Lewis Gregory he didn't make contact lucky for him.
William Porterfield made contact with this ball from Alfonso Thomas and was caught by Alex Barrow.
Jonathan Trott gave Alex Barrow another catch off the bowling of Peter Trego.
Lewis Gregory thought he had the wicket of Tim Ambrose the umpire thought otherwise.
Marcus Trescothick next job will be a juggler, all that effort catching the ball made no difference Varun Chopra never touched the ball off George Dockrell.
George Dockrell disappointment showed when the ball just missed the stumps of Rikki Clarke.
How do we hope to win a match when I believe we have missed a total of eight catches.
Other will have commented on today's play so I will leave it at that and only comment on my photos.
This was a good wicket for Lewis Gregory, Ian Westwood edging the ball-
-to Marcus Trescothick who leans to his left and catches the ball.
William Porterfield playing at a short ball from Lewis Gregory he didn't make contact lucky for him.
William Porterfield made contact with this ball from Alfonso Thomas and was caught by Alex Barrow.
Jonathan Trott gave Alex Barrow another catch off the bowling of Peter Trego.
Lewis Gregory thought he had the wicket of Tim Ambrose the umpire thought otherwise.
Marcus Trescothick next job will be a juggler, all that effort catching the ball made no difference Varun Chopra never touched the ball off George Dockrell.
George Dockrell disappointment showed when the ball just missed the stumps of Rikki Clarke.
To be fair, Westwood's shot in the first pic looks a load worse than Tres's in the first pic yesterday!
Thanks Mike.
PS From what I've read, it also seems to me that the catching has been the biggest difference between the teams in this match, up to now...
Thanks Mike.
PS From what I've read, it also seems to me that the catching has been the biggest difference between the teams in this match, up to now...
So our whole season stands or falls on tomorrow. No half measures, we have to believe we can do it and get it done. We are certainly capable of it.
Thought we bowled admirably before lunch, but somewhat less so in the afternoon, especially after tea, when it all looked pretty toothless.
Not really confident of our ability to chase down 400, or even survive the day, but wouldn't it be nice if we showed everyone what we are truly capable of.
Grizzzly
Not really confident of our ability to chase down 400, or even survive the day, but wouldn't it be nice if we showed everyone what we are truly capable of.
Grizzzly
As for tomorrow, we don't have many of our top five in real form.
Nobody that was there has commented on whether or not the track seems to be following the usual pattern of getting flatter and flatter - comments?
Nobody that was there has commented on whether or not the track seems to be following the usual pattern of getting flatter and flatter - comments?
It showed signs of turn for both JM and GD.
They were in full flow and our fields defensive but caused a few problems.
Patel is better than both, will bowl 35/40 overs tomorrow and will have 3 or 4 around the bat all day, it will be tough.
But best way to get rid of those fielders is to be positive, not reckless but positive.
Using out feet seems to be a real issue, against spin we so often sit back and wait for a good ball. Tres can play spin superbly well, so if he can survive for a while he will help take runs off Patel.
I just hope we show some intent, it will be tricky but I always feel we look best when being attacking. Have to be measured but sitting back and prodding will stop us winning and in reality probably help us lose as it'll just increase the vultures around the bat.
They were in full flow and our fields defensive but caused a few problems.
Patel is better than both, will bowl 35/40 overs tomorrow and will have 3 or 4 around the bat all day, it will be tough.
But best way to get rid of those fielders is to be positive, not reckless but positive.
Using out feet seems to be a real issue, against spin we so often sit back and wait for a good ball. Tres can play spin superbly well, so if he can survive for a while he will help take runs off Patel.
I just hope we show some intent, it will be tricky but I always feel we look best when being attacking. Have to be measured but sitting back and prodding will stop us winning and in reality probably help us lose as it'll just increase the vultures around the bat.
Makes no difference what form we are or are not in. Tomorrow we have to chase 400 and get it or its mid table and nothing in the cabinet. Couldn't be simpler really.
There are no real hypotheticals, it doesn't matter who gets the runs or how we go about it. Whatever has to be done has to be done tomorrow and it has to be done if we are to mount any more of a challenge in any competition in 2014.
Whether it was 8 or not is debatable but it was far too many that is for sure, we have to sort out our slip cordon which has really struggled.
There are no real hypotheticals, it doesn't matter who gets the runs or how we go about it. Whatever has to be done has to be done tomorrow and it has to be done if we are to mount any more of a challenge in any competition in 2014.
Whether it was 8 or not is debatable but it was far too many that is for sure, we have to sort out our slip cordon which has really struggled.
I was going by Cricinfo yesterday write-up when they said six dropped catches and we dropped two today.
Unless there was more late on (after Westwood's dismissal) the general consensus was four unless you counted Trego's - when the ball did not carry to him because he as standing too far back. But it doesn't really matter when you are up to counting them on two hands!!
Will be interesting to see if we tweak the batting order to allow say 3 or 4 batsmen (Trego, Gregory, Abell, Barrow)to have a right go at it, with say Compton and Hildreth held back to protect the draw. I think the Nosworthy/Trescothic mindset is naturally cautious - as it was against Durham on the last day at CLS in April, so I expect no tweaks Today however, it's $$$$ or bust, so I'm hoping for some lateral thinking.
NBJ - I was also thinking about tweaks if we are going to go for it - I'd suggest possibly holding back Compton and Barrow to try and shut up shop later, if necessary.
Trego and Gregory are my obvious candidates for promotion.
I'd consider:
Tres
JM
Hildreth
Abell
Trego
Gregory
By way of a top six. The 'plan,' would be top four try to bat normally until lunch and if it's gone according to plan then we'd only be two down and then we'd look at Pete and LG as the next two men in to add impetus.
Patel would be the obvious danger man on paper and, based on WSM's comments, it sounds like he will be on grass.
But we surely must aim to put the likes of Hannon-Dalby and Jones - reserve bowlers - under pressure.
Trego and Gregory are my obvious candidates for promotion.
I'd consider:
Tres
JM
Hildreth
Abell
Trego
Gregory
By way of a top six. The 'plan,' would be top four try to bat normally until lunch and if it's gone according to plan then we'd only be two down and then we'd look at Pete and LG as the next two men in to add impetus.
Patel would be the obvious danger man on paper and, based on WSM's comments, it sounds like he will be on grass.
But we surely must aim to put the likes of Hannon-Dalby and Jones - reserve bowlers - under pressure.
I think we have to go for it before lunch AG - maybe after 10 overs or 1 wicket down. We need over 4 an over, and could manage that if we are aggressive early enough.
However with 3 games left - including 1 at home to Northants, and 1 against Yorks which is a double pointer, I suspect that Nosworthy/Trescothic might consider a draw acceptable on the basis that we could still win the CC, and therefore shut up shop too early - especially if the normal batting order is used. I hope I'm wrong.
However with 3 games left - including 1 at home to Northants, and 1 against Yorks which is a double pointer, I suspect that Nosworthy/Trescothic might consider a draw acceptable on the basis that we could still win the CC, and therefore shut up shop too early - especially if the normal batting order is used. I hope I'm wrong.
Let's get all statistical.
We need 403 from 96 overs which is 4.2 po
We can assume 100 from the last 20 if we are still in business so 3.95 will do for most of the day.
Each batsman needs to score 37 at a strike rate of 57 (for the first 75 overs) and we need to lose wickets at no greater frequency than every 10 over and 4 balls.
Well, it will keep me amused if nothing else.
We need 403 from 96 overs which is 4.2 po
We can assume 100 from the last 20 if we are still in business so 3.95 will do for most of the day.
Each batsman needs to score 37 at a strike rate of 57 (for the first 75 overs) and we need to lose wickets at no greater frequency than every 10 over and 4 balls.
Well, it will keep me amused if nothing else.
When you put the required strike rate at 57 it sounds easier.
The averaging 37 bit sounds tougher though what that really means is that there will have to be a 74 for every duck, a 64 for every 10 etc.
I think Hildreth owes the team rather a lot of runs after what I would view as an underwhelming run that has extended to 28 CC matches since the start of 2013.
The Beeb Warks commentator is always going on about how heavily Hildreth usually scores against them and today would be a fine day to bring that guy's fears to resolution.
The averaging 37 bit sounds tougher though what that really means is that there will have to be a 74 for every duck, a 64 for every 10 etc.
I think Hildreth owes the team rather a lot of runs after what I would view as an underwhelming run that has extended to 28 CC matches since the start of 2013.
The Beeb Warks commentator is always going on about how heavily Hildreth usually scores against them and today would be a fine day to bring that guy's fears to resolution.
I'm proposing 11.23am as the time when, having not already gone off at 5 an over without losing wickets, somebody on here starts moaning and/or panicking.
There is no hurry.
It's a big total but we need to remember that we reached a total less than 50 runs below this in less than 50 overs on this ground not a month ago.
There is not a time constraint on this. There's a people constraint. If we conserve wickets and get players past the 'start' towards 50 then we have a chance as long as some go over that half ton. The initial objective for each player is a score of 40. Anything over that takes the pressure off another player.
It's a big total but we need to remember that we reached a total less than 50 runs below this in less than 50 overs on this ground not a month ago.
There is not a time constraint on this. There's a people constraint. If we conserve wickets and get players past the 'start' towards 50 then we have a chance as long as some go over that half ton. The initial objective for each player is a score of 40. Anything over that takes the pressure off another player.
You are right in that 57 does look manageable. If I'd typed the proper figure of 67 it doesn't look quite so good. The maths was OK =but not the keyboard skill.
Perhaps guys need to think in terms of not allowing their personal scoring rates to dip below 50, with the understanding that the likes of Pete, Lewis G and Craig O would be asked to score at something like 70-80 per 100 balls.
If we're going for it we can't afford for someone like Compton to get stuck. 50, say, from 130 balls would really not be good enough and transfer too much pressure to others.
That's one reason why I'd move him down the order. The other is that arguably the best way to put a fielding side under pressure without massive risk is to emphasise very sharp running between the wickets. Such a tactic is much more fraught with risk if NC is batting.
Tres is a great judge of a quick single and Hildreth, Myburgh, Abell and Gregory are all extremely fleet of foot between the timbers, with Pete certainly no slouch either.
If we're going for it we can't afford for someone like Compton to get stuck. 50, say, from 130 balls would really not be good enough and transfer too much pressure to others.
That's one reason why I'd move him down the order. The other is that arguably the best way to put a fielding side under pressure without massive risk is to emphasise very sharp running between the wickets. Such a tactic is much more fraught with risk if NC is batting.
Tres is a great judge of a quick single and Hildreth, Myburgh, Abell and Gregory are all extremely fleet of foot between the timbers, with Pete certainly no slouch either.
Is there really any other option than to 'go for it'? What would be the point of any other decision?
Won't Marcus's ankles prevent him from running quick singles. Maybe Nick can transfer his T20 form of late to the run chase.
Could be exciting am looking forward to all those manufactured one day shots come them end. .
Could be exciting am looking forward to all those manufactured one day shots come them end. .
Think that's right on all counts AG. Sharp singles and ones into twos not only rotates strike but disconcerts the fielding side.
12.12. is 6 an over... more than enough.
12.12. is 6 an over... more than enough.
Seems as though we might have settled for a draw at start of play !
30 runs from 14 overs is not particularly aggressive.
Mind you that might be the best option I guess as we certainly can't afford to lose !
30 runs from 14 overs is not particularly aggressive.
Mind you that might be the best option I guess as we certainly can't afford to lose !
We have done neither one thing nor the other. We have not challenged the total (too many dot balls) and we are now losing wickets. We could afford to lose if we do so in the cause of trying to win. We cannot afford to lose in the cause of trying not to lose.
A few quick early wickets will slow things down - no choice now but try to consolidate for a while, and then see where we are later.
Having recently logged, I prefer the various prognoses set out above (each of which involved us winning) to the actuality (which doesn't).
My statistical forecast-for what it's worth showed us 123 for 3 at this stage. We are 83 for 3. All is not lost as we need 5 an over, and Yorks and Notts are making heavy weather of things.
Our championship challenge is over unless we win isn't it? A draw puts us too far behind?
Presently, staying in this is going to be a big job anyway. Can't believe that Nick has only scored just over 20. Slow and he' now gone to Trott in athletic fashion it seems
Presently, staying in this is going to be a big job anyway. Can't believe that Nick has only scored just over 20. Slow and he' now gone to Trott in athletic fashion it seems
Sadly I feel that our season may effectively end today - not with a bang but with a whimper.
Have to be honest though and admit that overall we got what we deserved - I will just have to try and live a bit longer to see my dream come true !
On an aside - don't really feel much impressed by what Mr Nosworthy has brought to the club.
Have to be honest though and admit that overall we got what we deserved - I will just have to try and live a bit longer to see my dream come true !
On an aside - don't really feel much impressed by what Mr Nosworthy has brought to the club.
If people want to take that any further PLEASE start another thread.
I think you're right in the season assessment Rodders unfortunately. We have been short in a couple of areas and it's shown. We'll have to see how new contract offers and future plans of players pans out and see where that leaves us. It does give us free rein to play a few others in games over the next few weeks. Jamie can have a run out. Young Reagan could get a game? Abell can get the feel. Maybe even Adam Dibble will bowl a first team ball
I think you're right in the season assessment Rodders unfortunately. We have been short in a couple of areas and it's shown. We'll have to see how new contract offers and future plans of players pans out and see where that leaves us. It does give us free rein to play a few others in games over the next few weeks. Jamie can have a run out. Young Reagan could get a game? Abell can get the feel. Maybe even Adam Dibble will bowl a first team ball
All going Pete Tong 
Had three very heavy rain showers since 11am in Swindon - why none in TA1?!
Had three very heavy rain showers since 11am in Swindon - why none in TA1?!
Barrow out - 142 for 6. Good draw if we can get it, but season now over bar the totting up of the place winnings. Methinks a radical re-think at end of season beckons - could be bloody.
Quite right folks. A draw was no good anyway but I wish the loss-as I now imagine it will be -had been a glorious one. This ends the season effectively and I shall likewise have to live a bit longer. We are in a transition and must blood some of the ones coming up- who look just about ready.
Not waving but drowning!!! At least my illness saved me a miserabledrive home tonight.
Only one player got a 50 in our two innings. There's a lot of negatives to take away but Gregory, Abell and Overton all contributed well in various parts.
I imagine being a Somerset fan is very similar to being a Spurs fan.
I imagine being a Somerset fan is very similar to being a Spurs fan.
Dismal, rodders dismal.
Its easy with hindsight but we beat a poor Sussex twice, Northants and an under strength Durham. Put us up against a better team and we come up short.
We have a lot to address Im afraid.Going nowhere with Nos I'm afraid but thats for a different thread
Anyway, now thats out of the way lets get back to the real cricket....oh hang on...........
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:17:08:17 by Ronniesabre.
Its easy with hindsight but we beat a poor Sussex twice, Northants and an under strength Durham. Put us up against a better team and we come up short.
We have a lot to address Im afraid.Going nowhere with Nos I'm afraid but thats for a different thread
Anyway, now thats out of the way lets get back to the real cricket....oh hang on...........
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:17:08:17 by Ronniesabre.
The transition is ongoing: Jones and Kirby are part of the past; Abell has joined a pleasingly long list of those who have indicated that they could be significant elements of a brighter future.
I think talk of "radical" or "bloody" shake-ups is borne out of an admittedly very poor defeat.
Marcus is 5 runs short of 1000 F/C runs, again, so clearly isn't finished yet.
The big question, for me at least, is whether a continued determination to compete in all three competitions is either realistic or desirable.
I think talk of "radical" or "bloody" shake-ups is borne out of an admittedly very poor defeat.
Marcus is 5 runs short of 1000 F/C runs, again, so clearly isn't finished yet.
The big question, for me at least, is whether a continued determination to compete in all three competitions is either realistic or desirable.
but we havent competed in all 3 this year FE?
And its not doing Warks any harm.
And its not doing Warks any harm.
Witless batting (at least in the first innings) and abject catching are a pretty sound recipe for a heavy home defeat against any oppo, even one missing four senior pace options.
Questions have to be asked about our propensity to summon particularly poor performances at the most inopportune moments.
That's three crummy home performances in successive games, the first two of them 50 over games.
Questions have to be asked about our propensity to summon particularly poor performances at the most inopportune moments.
That's three crummy home performances in successive games, the first two of them 50 over games.
But it is always our stated intention: and we always pick largely the same first-choice "core". That's what I meant.
Should it be? Should we use one comp, probably the 50 over stuff, to rest the older pros abd blood the youngsters?
Should it be? Should we use one comp, probably the 50 over stuff, to rest the older pros abd blood the youngsters?
All so disappointing that a season that at times promised so much could and probably will, to all extents and purposes, be over in terms of trophies by Wednesday night.
Undoubtedly some individual highlights, especially Gregory, Tresco's return to CC form, Thomas's CC wickets and Cove's development too. And Abell's first-innings debut.
But too many underperformers, dropped catches and bad decisions at tosses, or at least 'right' decisions not taken advantage of.
I believe Hildy, Kieswetter (when fit) and even Compo will all look back on their seasons and feel they could have scored more runs. Myburgh's been a useful addition to the ranks but has only one innings of real substance, his debut. Never really 'failed as an opener but never seems to get past 30 either. George seems to have gone backwards, without a wicket in this match while Wark's spinner helps bowl them to victory. Will Alex feel he's really taken advantage of Craig's absence? Mesh hasn't had the season many of his supporters, like me, felt he had in him. Jove has obviously gone backwards in an alarming, and sad to watch, way.
Yet there is the talent there in our squad. Let's hope that the powers that be, apart from no doubt crowing at the end of the season about another year of high gate receipts and a new stand on the way, will also have the honesty and know how to look at the situation and take some tough decisions if neccesary.
To win the toss in a crucial game and therefore to have 'control' of the situation, and then to bowl, bat and catch so badly and end up losing by over 200 runs is inexcusable. Ditto being top of the 50 over table half way through the competition, only to fall to 5th with one match left. We're a good squad with some very good players..over to you guys to sort it out.
Undoubtedly some individual highlights, especially Gregory, Tresco's return to CC form, Thomas's CC wickets and Cove's development too. And Abell's first-innings debut.
But too many underperformers, dropped catches and bad decisions at tosses, or at least 'right' decisions not taken advantage of.
I believe Hildy, Kieswetter (when fit) and even Compo will all look back on their seasons and feel they could have scored more runs. Myburgh's been a useful addition to the ranks but has only one innings of real substance, his debut. Never really 'failed as an opener but never seems to get past 30 either. George seems to have gone backwards, without a wicket in this match while Wark's spinner helps bowl them to victory. Will Alex feel he's really taken advantage of Craig's absence? Mesh hasn't had the season many of his supporters, like me, felt he had in him. Jove has obviously gone backwards in an alarming, and sad to watch, way.
Yet there is the talent there in our squad. Let's hope that the powers that be, apart from no doubt crowing at the end of the season about another year of high gate receipts and a new stand on the way, will also have the honesty and know how to look at the situation and take some tough decisions if neccesary.
To win the toss in a crucial game and therefore to have 'control' of the situation, and then to bowl, bat and catch so badly and end up losing by over 200 runs is inexcusable. Ditto being top of the 50 over table half way through the competition, only to fall to 5th with one match left. We're a good squad with some very good players..over to you guys to sort it out.
I think that its every counties agenda to compete in all 3 comps.
Some manage better than others. I think when we were doing it we were lucky with injures, not so recently.
You also need to strengthen the squad at the right time, and I think maybe recently we have failed to do that also.
Some manage better than others. I think when we were doing it we were lucky with injures, not so recently.
You also need to strengthen the squad at the right time, and I think maybe recently we have failed to do that also.
Quote:Might it not be that all cricket teams - apart from the all-conquering ones like 50s Surrey, 60s Yorks, 1890-1950 passim Yorks, 1976-95 WI etc - have a propensity to play well at times and less well at others?AGod
Questions have to be asked about our propensity to summon particularly poor performances at the most inopportune moments.
That's three crummy home performances in successive games, the first two of them 50 over games.
A very dispiriting performance and there are issues with batting, bowling and fielding that need to be addressed.
Our top-order batters have underperformed as a group and that solidity we seemed to be growing earlier in the season has vanished. We don't have a front line spinner at the moment although Jack must be in line for a four-day berth. Dropping eight catches in a match is very poor in a generally athletic team.
Nos needs to start earning his money again!! And the coaches must be tearing their hair out.
Our top-order batters have underperformed as a group and that solidity we seemed to be growing earlier in the season has vanished. We don't have a front line spinner at the moment although Jack must be in line for a four-day berth. Dropping eight catches in a match is very poor in a generally athletic team.
Nos needs to start earning his money again!! And the coaches must be tearing their hair out.
With Nosworthy or the players?
It might be a time to keep in mind that we are in a much better place than we were this time last year and I don't think we are going to fall into relegation land before the end of the season so things are looking up.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:19:19:24 by Grockle.
It might be a time to keep in mind that we are in a much better place than we were this time last year and I don't think we are going to fall into relegation land before the end of the season so things are looking up.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:19:19:24 by Grockle.
"I think talk of "radical" or "bloody" shake-ups is borne out of an admittedly very poor defeat."
Not really FE, the core of players (especially batsmen) has not changed much for about 4 or 5 years, and in that time relative performances in all competitions have declined (certainly since 2010). There seems to be no steel in the team, no grittiness that makes the best out of all circumstances. As an analogy, the team is akin to a football team composed of midfielders with no big, dirty central defenders, and with ageing strikers. It just isn't working.
Not really FE, the core of players (especially batsmen) has not changed much for about 4 or 5 years, and in that time relative performances in all competitions have declined (certainly since 2010). There seems to be no steel in the team, no grittiness that makes the best out of all circumstances. As an analogy, the team is akin to a football team composed of midfielders with no big, dirty central defenders, and with ageing strikers. It just isn't working.
I think Little Bird has summed things up pretty well. There is talent there, but it's underperforming too often, or still young, promising but understandably inconsistent.
I heard the Lancs' BBC commentator a few weeks ago saying how they essentially had three very different line-ups for the three competitions. I don't know how much they differ, Baggy would be better qualified to judge. I'm also not convinced it's done them much good but it shows it is an option at least.
Certainly lots to address, from the DoC downwards. It's not all about heads rolling, radical shake-ups or total clearouts (which is even more unrealistic in cricket than it is even for football, which is where most of those who call for huge numbers of new bowlers and batsmen - from where? - generally have their main attention).
Anyway, as I said elsewhere, the day of a defeat isn't really the best time for rational consideration, sensible reflection or clear thinking as emotions are too raw.
I heard the Lancs' BBC commentator a few weeks ago saying how they essentially had three very different line-ups for the three competitions. I don't know how much they differ, Baggy would be better qualified to judge. I'm also not convinced it's done them much good
but it shows it is an option at least.
Certainly lots to address, from the DoC downwards. It's not all about heads rolling, radical shake-ups or total clearouts (which is even more unrealistic in cricket than it is even for football, which is where most of those who call for huge numbers of new bowlers and batsmen - from where? - generally have their main attention).
Anyway, as I said elsewhere, the day of a defeat isn't really the best time for rational consideration, sensible reflection or clear thinking as emotions are too raw.
We also need to wait for releases, new contract, retirements etc as we have no idea what the construct of next seasons playing staff will be until that is done and we can look at what there is and what there isn't.
After last years LVCC showing what did we really expect this year?
Poor display this week granted but we have only lost 2 from 13, and competed well in virtually every game.
Last year we got stuffed on a regular basis, a lot of our draws were losing draws, where we kept getting shot for under 200 and never in the games.
We have gone back in the one day stuff largely down to Jos leaving, Marcus not getting us off to good starts and Alfie being way short of his normal level.
We have lots to be positive about, we are virtually guaranteed of yet another division 1 season.
We have Cove and Lewis who have come on loads. Abell could be special.
Tres back to 4 day form.
Jove and Meschede have stalled but still bags of potential there.
Rather than complain let's have suggestions, which of our first team squad do people want rid of?
Hildy, Trego, Alfie, Myburgh, Dockrell? Who are we wanting to letting go?
Nos has improved us from last year, no question. By no means the finished article but last year we struggled in LVCC, scraped through to T20 quarter and got nowhere in P40, so this year has seen an improvement.
Poor display this week granted but we have only lost 2 from 13, and competed well in virtually every game.
Last year we got stuffed on a regular basis, a lot of our draws were losing draws, where we kept getting shot for under 200 and never in the games.
We have gone back in the one day stuff largely down to Jos leaving, Marcus not getting us off to good starts and Alfie being way short of his normal level.
We have lots to be positive about, we are virtually guaranteed of yet another division 1 season.
We have Cove and Lewis who have come on loads. Abell could be special.
Tres back to 4 day form.
Jove and Meschede have stalled but still bags of potential there.
Rather than complain let's have suggestions, which of our first team squad do people want rid of?
Hildy, Trego, Alfie, Myburgh, Dockrell? Who are we wanting to letting go?
Nos has improved us from last year, no question. By no means the finished article but last year we struggled in LVCC, scraped through to T20 quarter and got nowhere in P40, so this year has seen an improvement.
Can't share that assessment wsm.
Having seen quite a bit of this game (fortunately not today), we simply didn't compete for large sections of the match. Some sessions we were good, but too many the opposite. The body language was also mixed (Nick Compton fielding looked detached & bored witless for long periods on Sunday).
The consistent pattern over recent seasons is that we turn in inspired performances, but all too infrequently.
The only constant is that as a team, we underperform badly relative to the individual abilities of the players.
Responsibility of course is shared between the Players, Captain & DofC/coaches etc..As regards where the lions share of culpability lies, that is a matter of conjecture, but from my own viewpoint I simply don't beieve we will ever win anything under the Captaincy of Marcus.
Carry on batting by all means (likely down the order), but we need more drive, more passion & more will to win. Marcus has been Captain under both Brian & Dave Nosworthy, and by no assessment can he be viewed to have got the best out of his players.
For that reason alone, we must surely look elsewhere for future leadership.
Grizzzly
Having seen quite a bit of this game (fortunately not today), we simply didn't compete for large sections of the match. Some sessions we were good, but too many the opposite. The body language was also mixed (Nick Compton fielding looked detached & bored witless for long periods on Sunday).
The consistent pattern over recent seasons is that we turn in inspired performances, but all too infrequently.
The only constant is that as a team, we underperform badly relative to the individual abilities of the players.
Responsibility of course is shared between the Players, Captain & DofC/coaches etc..As regards where the lions share of culpability lies, that is a matter of conjecture, but from my own viewpoint I simply don't beieve we will ever win anything under the Captaincy of Marcus.
Carry on batting by all means (likely down the order), but we need more drive, more passion & more will to win. Marcus has been Captain under both Brian & Dave Nosworthy, and by no assessment can he be viewed to have got the best out of his players.
For that reason alone, we must surely look elsewhere for future leadership.
Grizzzly
How strange. We're 4th in the top tier of the CC with 3 matches to play having lost only 2 matches so far. Can't work out how we got there given that our batting and fielding are apparently dreadful and our bowling is not much better. Yes, I've just seen two poor performances in the 50 over competition and we should have done much better against Warks weakened bowling attack but I'll reserve my judgment until the season is over.
Yes and as much as you keep saying it WSM (it will get less raw 
) our one day and T20 woes have had very little to do with the absence of Jos Buttler.
Much more to do with a lack of tactical sense on an individual and team basis, a lack of flexibility plus variation/pressure in our bowling attack.
We weren't as much a batsman short (though they did bat like headless chickens at times) but a bowler with something like the Steve Kirby slow ball short.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:20:52:00 by Grockle.
) our one day and T20 woes have had very little to do with the absence of Jos Buttler.
Much more to do with a lack of tactical sense on an individual and team basis, a lack of flexibility plus variation/pressure in our bowling attack.
We weren't as much a batsman short (though they did bat like headless chickens at times) but a bowler with something like the Steve Kirby slow ball short.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:20:52:00 by Grockle.
Wsm you may have memory loss I thought we got to the p40 semi final. I don't think that's nowhere do you? If that nowhere what's this years effort . I don't think you can say candidly there will be an improvement . What hapoens if we lose 2 of our last 3 and finish 5th or 6th. Entirely feasible on this showing. And that was about last years position albeit without the relegation fears of last year!!!
Quote:Frome Exile
But it is always our stated intention: and we always pick largely the same first-choice "core". That's what I meant.
Should it be? Should we use one comp, probably the 50 over stuff, to rest the older pros abd blood the youngsters?
Your original point interested me.
Obviously, SCCC could decide to regularly rest our most important CC players from either form of white-ball cricket.
I seem to remember that you suggested that I was guilty of 'cynicism of the highest order,' when I suggested, previously, that we might consider doing this mainly in away games on the basis that the club Treasurer would not want to see vastly diminished gates for home games!
But, seriously, if Somerset were to make an absolute priority of the CC - and I think the club have previously said that the CC is the number one priority (as well as having said that we wish to compete for honours on all fronts) - then one could go further and actually begin a process of re-calibrating the composition of the squad?
It would not, could not, happen overnight, but we all know that some professional cricketers are much better in long form cricket than in shorter forms. Over time, if Somerset wished to do so we could start to base any and all recruitment decisions (including retainment of existing playing staff) mainly around the over-riding prerogative of wanting to win the CC?
[stats.espncricinfo.com]
Our County Championship averages are very interesting - and probably better than some might expect after today's loss. Alfie's bottom, averaging a reasonable 17, while I'd say only James Hildreth's numbers are especially disappointing (apart from Chris Jones). Yes, Nick, Alviro, Craig, Johann could all have been better, but they're not what you'd call bad.
Bowling-wise, the top two are exceptional, Cove's very good for a young player, PT's very good as an all-rounder combined with his batting contribution. GD's figures are decent for a young spinner, albeit we'd like more (esp to look more threatening on day four / helpful pitches - tho even Patel's today were not that great for a much more experienced, international, spinner). The likes of CraigM and Jove are young back-up bowlers this season.
Looking purely at stats and at the CC, there's not a lot wrong...and as wsm says above, we've only lost 2 of 13 and there have been some steps forward from a poor 2013.
Our County Championship averages are very interesting - and probably better than some might expect after today's loss. Alfie's bottom, averaging a reasonable 17, while I'd say only James Hildreth's numbers are especially disappointing (apart from Chris Jones). Yes, Nick, Alviro, Craig, Johann could all have been better, but they're not what you'd call bad.
Bowling-wise, the top two are exceptional, Cove's very good for a young player, PT's very good as an all-rounder combined with his batting contribution. GD's figures are decent for a young spinner, albeit we'd like more (esp to look more threatening on day four / helpful pitches - tho even Patel's today were not that great for a much more experienced, international, spinner). The likes of CraigM and Jove are young back-up bowlers this season.
Looking purely at stats and at the CC, there's not a lot wrong...and as wsm says above, we've only lost 2 of 13 and there have been some steps forward from a poor 2013.
Can I please ask those that were there:
What happened at the start? Myburgh made 20 odd* so we obviously did not lose an instant wicket.. SO.. what was going on with Marcus? Was he visibly trying to be aggressive but so hopelessly out of form that he made only 4 from 42 balls? Did he come out looking as though he was interested only in blocking? Or was the Warwickshire bowling so brilliant that Tres playing each ball on merit resulted only in a succession of dot balls?
* Myburgh is an odd case. He's seldom dismissed early. Most openers are dismissed early, it seems to me, much more frequently than he is, yet he seems to (almost) always get to 20 and 30 or so and then get out... does anyone have any kind of explanation for this?
What happened at the start? Myburgh made 20 odd* so we obviously did not lose an instant wicket.. SO.. what was going on with Marcus? Was he visibly trying to be aggressive but so hopelessly out of form that he made only 4 from 42 balls? Did he come out looking as though he was interested only in blocking? Or was the Warwickshire bowling so brilliant that Tres playing each ball on merit resulted only in a succession of dot balls?
* Myburgh is an odd case. He's seldom dismissed early. Most openers are dismissed early, it seems to me, much more frequently than he is, yet he seems to (almost) always get to 20 and 30 or so and then get out... does anyone have any kind of explanation for this?
Quote:North Berwick John
Barrow out - 142 for 6. Good draw if we can get it, but season now over bar the totting up of the place winnings. Methinks a radical re-think at end of season beckons - could be bloody.
I wouldn't hold your breath, NBJ.
I personally rather fear that Mr Nash (or whoever has the final call on such decisions) will simply present DN with an extension to his deal (the last year of which is currently in 2015).
Suffice to say, I don't think we should do that. I think next season should very much be a "prove it," year for DN...
Would you make this decision open to the supporting public and alter the ticket prices of the 'less significant' competition matches accordingly while you were re-calibrating your squad?
In a squad of 23 (where some are coming in and others are struggling with injury/age so you aren't sure what is what with that group), how many would you expect to rest from the one day squad and T20 matches?
It would have to be 3 or 4 to make any difference wouldn't it?
Would you have separate captains - we are already in a position where we have two and a VC.
Would you have one 'core squad' or two? four day and limited over?
Would you still pay your specialists the same or would there be different pay structures according to how many formats you played in?
It's not a simple system to operte and until you do it are you sure it will work?
In a squad of 23 (where some are coming in and others are struggling with injury/age so you aren't sure what is what with that group), how many would you expect to rest from the one day squad and T20 matches?
It would have to be 3 or 4 to make any difference wouldn't it?
Would you have separate captains - we are already in a position where we have two and a VC.
Would you have one 'core squad' or two? four day and limited over?
Would you still pay your specialists the same or would there be different pay structures according to how many formats you played in?
It's not a simple system to operte and until you do it are you sure it will work?
Quote:mikeindexQuote:Might it not be that all cricket teams - apart from the all-conquering ones like 50s Surrey, 60s Yorks, 1890-1950 passim Yorks, 1976-95 WI etc - have a propensity to play well at times and less well at others?AGod
Questions have to be asked about our propensity to summon particularly poor performances at the most inopportune moments.
That's three crummy home performances in successive games, the first two of them 50 over games.
I intended my post to be read with 'inopportune,' as the operative term in the sentence, Mikeindex.
This was the first of a four game "Championship contender run-in," against a heavily depleted attack and we responded with what must have been our worst CC performance of the season, all things considered. In that sense it can be added to some very poor recent performances in certain finals, especially the 40 over (I think it was?) final vs Surrey at Lord's and a dimsal T20 Final performance against Leicestershire, at Edgbaston.
Well that dream turned out to be about as real as my dreams about Anna Ivanovic saying yes!
Plenty of good assessments already posted so not much to add. There is plenty to feel positive about. Much of our success this year has been on the back of the young guns and if Jove, Mesch, George can recharge their potential over the winter we have the core of a great young team. But there are plenty of issues to address, how long do we tolerate underperformance from senior players? Why do we so frequently crumble at critical moments? Is our decision making both at strategic and battlefield tactical level satisfactory? The coming months will be both interesting and critical.
In the meantime, I presume the end of season party will be delayed until Wednesday night
Plenty of good assessments already posted so not much to add. There is plenty to feel positive about. Much of our success this year has been on the back of the young guns and if Jove, Mesch, George can recharge their potential over the winter we have the core of a great young team. But there are plenty of issues to address, how long do we tolerate underperformance from senior players? Why do we so frequently crumble at critical moments? Is our decision making both at strategic and battlefield tactical level satisfactory? The coming months will be both interesting and critical.
In the meantime, I presume the end of season party will be delayed until Wednesday night
SP I'm really interested in Alfie's bottom averaging 17. If that's what his bottom can do just think what he could average with all his body.
"Rather than complain let's have suggestions, which of our first team squad do people want rid of?
Hildy, Trego, Alfie, Myburgh, Dockrell? Who are we wanting to letting go? "
Personally, my answer is "nobody."
I would like whatever scouting system we have to scour the world for any possible signings that we could have to augment the squad and increase competition for batting places - because that's where I think most of our problems continue to lie. Look for every possible player that has a British passport, or British relatives that would allow them to count as English etc... for example, Sussex managed to turn up this Cachopa guy who seems to have started well, Kent have Brendon Nash who is not their official overseas player etc
As for the rest of this season IF we have anybody else in the Second XI (in addition to Mr Abell) who is clearly talented, has been productive and is judged to have real potential, then I'd be tempted to get them in there. If Peterson gets fit, I'd be tempted to return him to the team instead of James Hildreth... I think it's time for the message to go out to Mr Hildreth that the past 28 games, taken as a body of work, have not been good enough, and to serve a reminder that nobody has an automatic right to a place and that the club expects a better level of production from somebody of his talent level.
Hildy, Trego, Alfie, Myburgh, Dockrell? Who are we wanting to letting go? "
Personally, my answer is "nobody."
I would like whatever scouting system we have to scour the world for any possible signings that we could have to augment the squad and increase competition for batting places - because that's where I think most of our problems continue to lie. Look for every possible player that has a British passport, or British relatives that would allow them to count as English etc... for example, Sussex managed to turn up this Cachopa guy who seems to have started well, Kent have Brendon Nash who is not their official overseas player etc
As for the rest of this season IF we have anybody else in the Second XI (in addition to Mr Abell) who is clearly talented, has been productive and is judged to have real potential, then I'd be tempted to get them in there. If Peterson gets fit, I'd be tempted to return him to the team instead of James Hildreth... I think it's time for the message to go out to Mr Hildreth that the past 28 games, taken as a body of work, have not been good enough, and to serve a reminder that nobody has an automatic right to a place and that the club expects a better level of production from somebody of his talent level.
Today's heavy defeat was all too predictable to my eyes.
Marcus Trescothick made the wrong decision at the toss by inserting Warwickshire, and we were always thereafter on 'the back foot'.
The pitch may have had a green tinge to it on the first day, but that has rarely in the past meant that there was a lot in it for the bowlers on the first morning / day.
We did not perform well overall as a team in all aspects of the game, and I do not believe that there is much 'left in the tank' for the remainder of this season.
The team has marked deficiencies in both batting and bowling, and whilst I welcome the advancement of a couple of the younger players this season, that in itself is not enough.
Some young players have fallen away, and others have 'marked time'.
I wholly agree with Grizzzly that the body language of some players has not been good again this season, and I too do not consider that we will win any titles under the present captaincy.
In the past few years, we have tried to sign established players from other counties, and I firmly believe that Somerset is not a county that they wished to join.
Perhaps the set - up at the club is too 'cosy' for those who are already a part of it.
Marcus Trescothick made the wrong decision at the toss by inserting Warwickshire, and we were always thereafter on 'the back foot'.
The pitch may have had a green tinge to it on the first day, but that has rarely in the past meant that there was a lot in it for the bowlers on the first morning / day.
We did not perform well overall as a team in all aspects of the game, and I do not believe that there is much 'left in the tank' for the remainder of this season.
The team has marked deficiencies in both batting and bowling, and whilst I welcome the advancement of a couple of the younger players this season, that in itself is not enough.
Some young players have fallen away, and others have 'marked time'.
I wholly agree with Grizzzly that the body language of some players has not been good again this season, and I too do not consider that we will win any titles under the present captaincy.
In the past few years, we have tried to sign established players from other counties, and I firmly believe that Somerset is not a county that they wished to join.
Perhaps the set - up at the club is too 'cosy' for those who are already a part of it.
SP - the bowling figures could be an awful lot better than they are, without any actual improvement in the bowling!!! They look pretty good to me given the number of drops in the slips this season.
I think Marcus chooses to bowl when he wins the toss at home, not because he really expects to skittle the opposition cheaply, but because he's played there long enough to believe that the only chance of there being anything in the pitch at all for the bowlers is on morning one. We all know there will be nothing, green or otherwise, on days two and three, and that it doesn't really turn on day four.
I'm not saying this is the right or wrong policy, but it's at least justifiable and makes some sense.
I'm not saying this is the right or wrong policy, but it's at least justifiable and makes some sense.
Grockle - no we couldn't be certain of anything with any change to club philosophy/operating procedures.
Equally, we can be certain of nothing if we keep to the philosophy of "going hard," in all three competitions.
As far as this season was concerned, one could have made a case for not playing certain players who has struggled in the T20 in the 50 over stuff (e.g. Tresco) for fear that an extended run of poor 50 over form may then affect their CC form. I would draw a distinction, in this regard, between players struggling in a game played once a week (T20) and being interspersed with constant CC fixtures (allowing those players that are better in CC stuff to keep up their form) versus the situation with the 50 over stuff where the "pause," button was hit on the CC season and we had three solid weeks or so of 50 over stuff.
Equally, we can be certain of nothing if we keep to the philosophy of "going hard," in all three competitions.
As far as this season was concerned, one could have made a case for not playing certain players who has struggled in the T20 in the 50 over stuff (e.g. Tresco) for fear that an extended run of poor 50 over form may then affect their CC form. I would draw a distinction, in this regard, between players struggling in a game played once a week (T20) and being interspersed with constant CC fixtures (allowing those players that are better in CC stuff to keep up their form) versus the situation with the 50 over stuff where the "pause," button was hit on the CC season and we had three solid weeks or so of 50 over stuff.
I don't think that DN will be here beyond the end of next season, even if things improve, AG.
I think that MT (whose contract expires at the end of next season) is the Director of Cricket-in-waiting, and I think DN probably thinks that too - which might explain his alleged candidacy for the Sri Lanka job. I hope MT gets an offer from SKY he can't refuse - a Pareto outcome.
I don't think the blame for the poor performance can be laid wholly or even largely at DN's feet. He has improved the coaching structure and has given the young players opportunities that BR might not have. There has been an improvement this season in the CC results over last year, but whether it is down to Somerset's or other teams' performances is hard to gauge.
I don't think changing the DOC would have any effect.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:21:17:34 by North Berwick John.
I think that MT (whose contract expires at the end of next season) is the Director of Cricket-in-waiting, and I think DN probably thinks that too - which might explain his alleged candidacy for the Sri Lanka job. I hope MT gets an offer from SKY he can't refuse - a Pareto outcome.
I don't think the blame for the poor performance can be laid wholly or even largely at DN's feet. He has improved the coaching structure and has given the young players opportunities that BR might not have. There has been an improvement this season in the CC results over last year, but whether it is down to Somerset's or other teams' performances is hard to gauge.
I don't think changing the DOC would have any effect.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:21:17:34 by North Berwick John.
Our County Championship averages are very interesting - and probably better than some might expect after today's loss. Alfie's bottom, averaging a reasonable 17, while I'd say only James Hildreth's numbers are especially disappointing (apart from Chris Jones).
AG I know you've got to pick him out and make a point because you've made a big noise on another thread but I'm very surprised if you think Chris' figures are disappointing yet you are happy with the batsmen within 1.5 runs of his average (28.25).
Besides the poor Hildreth numbers (though it is not beyond possibility that he will increase that before the end of the year as he has only had one biggish score this year yet and he has a habit of doing that) you seem happy with the future possible core of our batting all averaging less than 30?
On the statements made here and elsewhere why are we satisfied with any of them, even if they are bowlers and wicket-keepers as well? If you are going to get the tar brush out then lay it on equally or possibly admit that they are young and coming through and the averages aren't disappointing but you'd expect them to increase.
AG I know you've got to pick him out and make a point because you've made a big noise on another thread but I'm very surprised if you think Chris' figures are disappointing yet you are happy with the batsmen within 1.5 runs of his average (28.25).
Besides the poor Hildreth numbers (though it is not beyond possibility that he will increase that before the end of the year as he has only had one biggish score this year yet and he has a habit of doing that) you seem happy with the future possible core of our batting all averaging less than 30?
On the statements made here and elsewhere why are we satisfied with any of them, even if they are bowlers and wicket-keepers as well? If you are going to get the tar brush out then lay it on equally or possibly admit that they are young and coming through and the averages aren't disappointing but you'd expect them to increase.
SP; re your 21:07 this was only the 3rd time in the most recent 18 CC wins at Taunton that a side that batted first had won. So that stat backs Marcus almost absolutely, IMO.
If you drop a hat-ful of catches and if your top six throws a load of wickets away then you will tend to lose most of the time!!!
We could just have easily thrown wickets away batting first and then dropped a load of catches on the second day.
If you drop a hat-ful of catches and if your top six throws a load of wickets away then you will tend to lose most of the time!!!
We could just have easily thrown wickets away batting first and then dropped a load of catches on the second day.
"I hope MT gets an offer from SKY he can't refuse - a Pareto outcome."
Personally, I think Marcus would rather do the Sky gig than become SCCC D of C.
And I think that Sky will offer him a job, and that he will take it.
Personally, I think Marcus would rather do the Sky gig than become SCCC D of C.
And I think that Sky will offer him a job, and that he will take it.
Grockle - I cannot see any specialist batsmen at all on the averages posted by SP averaging "less than 30," this season? That's unless one counts Alex Barrow thus?
If you're referring to Meschede, Gregory et al, then I don't consider those guys to be our "core future batsmen," if, by that, you mean guys that will be batting up in the top five etc?
I see those two (and Craig Overton) as all-rounders. I'm not unhappy with their batting averages because I see them as all-rounders (and in the case of two of those guys they've backed that up with their bowling in the CC this season).
Meschede has not followed through on a great end to last season, but he was, IMO, absolutely excellent at the end of last season and may have been set back by injury this season.
Regardless, and for the avoidance of doubt, has Chris Jones been under contract for longer than just this season, I would not have been calling for his contract to be terminated, I would simply have wished that the club would add greater competition for batting places.
If you're referring to Meschede, Gregory et al, then I don't consider those guys to be our "core future batsmen," if, by that, you mean guys that will be batting up in the top five etc?
I see those two (and Craig Overton) as all-rounders. I'm not unhappy with their batting averages because I see them as all-rounders (and in the case of two of those guys they've backed that up with their bowling in the CC this season).
Meschede has not followed through on a great end to last season, but he was, IMO, absolutely excellent at the end of last season and may have been set back by injury this season.
Regardless, and for the avoidance of doubt, has Chris Jones been under contract for longer than just this season, I would not have been calling for his contract to be terminated, I would simply have wished that the club would add greater competition for batting places.
Well, NBJ, let's be absolutely clear about this: It's not a feasible option.
If the club didn't learn that from the Dermot Reeve situation, then there's little hope for it!
(and, yes, I know Tresco isn't an irritating twerp with some very strange ideas on the game and is not busy snorting substances up his nose, but still!)
If the club didn't learn that from the Dermot Reeve situation, then there's little hope for it!
(and, yes, I know Tresco isn't an irritating twerp with some very strange ideas on the game and is not busy snorting substances up his nose, but still!)
Grockle, the averages post was mine not AG's.
Chris's (who I generally absolved from any criticism because he has retired) stats I said I felt to be disappointing because he has been around for a couple years (not a regular, I know, and still young), but still disappointing for an opener who had 12 innings.
I'm not sure which batsmen you think I'm happy with who is within 1.5 runs of his average?I think Barrow, Dockrell, Gregory and Meschede are within that range. AB is in the team largely because of CK's injury, mainly cos he keeps and is even less experienced than CJ. Dockrell isn't a batsman; Gregory (despite his alleged claims) seems to be a bowling all-rounder, while CM has had very few opps this season and again is an all-rounder rather than batsman.
Chris's (who I generally absolved from any criticism because he has retired) stats I said I felt to be disappointing because he has been around for a couple years (not a regular, I know, and still young), but still disappointing for an opener who had 12 innings.
I'm not sure which batsmen you think I'm happy with who is within 1.5 runs of his average?I think Barrow, Dockrell, Gregory and Meschede are within that range. AB is in the team largely because of CK's injury, mainly cos he keeps and is even less experienced than CJ. Dockrell isn't a batsman; Gregory (despite his alleged claims) seems to be a bowling all-rounder, while CM has had very few opps this season and again is an all-rounder rather than batsman.
Wouldn't a job with Sky involve overseas travel?
Conjecture I suppose, but wouldn't think that would work.
I guess they could offer a UK only role.
Grizzzly
Conjecture I suppose, but wouldn't think that would work.
I guess they could offer a UK only role.
Grizzzly
In theory I agree AG, but since MT seems to hold an almost mystical place in the Club, some accommodation might be made - perhaps a part-time DOC with beefed up batting and bowling coaches, and a hard nosed, in-yer-face (Aussie?)captain.
Surrey went for the high-profile, experienced overseas captain without any international ties - indeed, I'd say as high-profile, experienced, uncommitted as you could possibly get. Look how well that went!
Yeah, but they picked a guy who was physically falling apart!!!
Grizzly - I think Sky normally have guys in a studio in London as well as guys "on the scene."
Also, I'm not sure if travelling overseas to do anything but *play* cricket is a problem for Banger anyway? There was talk that he had a family holiday overseas last winter.
Grizzly - I think Sky normally have guys in a studio in London as well as guys "on the scene."
Also, I'm not sure if travelling overseas to do anything but *play* cricket is a problem for Banger anyway? There was talk that he had a family holiday overseas last winter.
So you have decided that Lewis is a specialist bowler on that basis then AG?
Alex had better leave if he is not a specialist batsman because he'll struggle to oust Craig on his present stats as a keeper batsman.
And which of these non specialists are going to replace Pete with and average of under 30 then? Some of them had better take a hell of a lot more wickets.
I'm amazed you think Lewis' batting average is OK but there you go.
One in the middle is obviously not OK... though I'm not sure why. He's been on a full contract for how long in relation to the others?
They are all disappointing from people we expect to be making up the middle order of a future Somerset side. You seem to have identified Jones as some kind of front man though had he taken up this career he would have probably developed into a James Hildreth replacement rather than an opener.
Good job he's gone though. Can't have one bad apple in the barrel or they'll all go bad.
Alex had better leave if he is not a specialist batsman because he'll struggle to oust Craig on his present stats as a keeper batsman.
And which of these non specialists are going to replace Pete with and average of under 30 then? Some of them had better take a hell of a lot more wickets.
I'm amazed you think Lewis' batting average is OK but there you go.
One in the middle is obviously not OK... though I'm not sure why. He's been on a full contract for how long in relation to the others?
They are all disappointing from people we expect to be making up the middle order of a future Somerset side. You seem to have identified Jones as some kind of front man though had he taken up this career he would have probably developed into a James Hildreth replacement rather than an opener.
Good job he's gone though. Can't have one bad apple in the barrel or they'll all go bad.
Can we just can all the speculation about what Marcus can or cannot travel for, and whether or not he might have been able to manage an overseas holiday with his family?
It's distasteful, disrespectful, and none if our bloody business!!
It's distasteful, disrespectful, and none if our bloody business!!
er.... presumably it was Dave N that had identified Jones as a front-end man- after all as far as this season was concerned he either opened the batting or did not play at all?
I can't see how or why it's difficult to understand that an all-rounder would be judged against different criteria than a specialist batsman!?
In general, if an all-rounder averages about 30 with the bat and about 30 with the ball, I think most people would be okay with that. If they average a bit less than 30 with the bat then one should expect/hope them to do likewise with the ball. The best all-rounders tend to average more with the bat than the ball. Lewis has done that this season.
Do I think Lewis is the top-five batsman that Brian Rose and Marcus regularly told us he would be?
No I don't. But I'm more than happy with him in this incarnation..
I can't see how or why it's difficult to understand that an all-rounder would be judged against different criteria than a specialist batsman!?
In general, if an all-rounder averages about 30 with the bat and about 30 with the ball, I think most people would be okay with that. If they average a bit less than 30 with the bat then one should expect/hope them to do likewise with the ball. The best all-rounders tend to average more with the bat than the ball. Lewis has done that this season.
Do I think Lewis is the top-five batsman that Brian Rose and Marcus regularly told us he would be?
No I don't. But I'm more than happy with him in this incarnation..
Quote:Grockle
I'm amazed you think Lewis' batting average is OK but there you go.
Lewis Gregory batting average this season-263 runs @ 29.22 (and he bowls)
Chris Jones batting average this season 339 runs @ 28.25.
Seeing chunky's name reminds me - my Surrey-supporting friend (who I shall join at the Oval on Weds) says he wishes Surrey's season had been as "bad" as Somerset's.
Because I doubt Lewis Gregory sees himself as that AG. Craig Meschede can't at the moment and Alex does see himself as a specialist and when the hell did you take any notice of what Dave Nosworthy said or did except to pull it to bits?
I can't see why you can't understand that young players at the start of their time develop and have to grow and don't fit your little boxes all that comfortably. Even if you are right, how do you know that based on that Chris would not have developed in a different way after realising he was not an opener and you were so right?
I refer you to Joe Root. Who has now found HIS place even though it isn't the one he was placed in during his early time with England by the coaches.
You've boxed one of ours up and then basically defined his whole career on the basis of one season of partly being involved while not boxing others who may find themselves or see themselves in other places. They are OK because they aren't defined.
As I say Good job he's gone I would have hate to have seen him prove you wrong (I lie of course).
I can't see why you can't understand that young players at the start of their time develop and have to grow and don't fit your little boxes all that comfortably. Even if you are right, how do you know that based on that Chris would not have developed in a different way after realising he was not an opener and you were so right?
I refer you to Joe Root. Who has now found HIS place even though it isn't the one he was placed in during his early time with England by the coaches.
You've boxed one of ours up and then basically defined his whole career on the basis of one season of partly being involved while not boxing others who may find themselves or see themselves in other places. They are OK because they aren't defined.
As I say Good job he's gone I would have hate to have seen him prove you wrong (I lie of course).
Quote:AGod
Yeah, but they picked a guy who was physically falling apart!!!
Grizzly - I think Sky normally have guys in a studio in London as well as guys "on the scene."
Also, I'm not sure if travelling overseas to do anything but *play* cricket is a problem for Banger anyway? There was talk that he had a family holiday overseas last winter.
You seem to be diagnosing parts of Marcus's Illness again Agod, not sure your really qualified to comment.
True Chunky
Lewis played more games than Chris and Chris scored more 50's. So what?
Lewis played more games than Chris and Chris scored more 50's. So what?
Oh, and here you are Nailsea, presumably Marcus is capable of telling people whether (or not) he went on holiday. At he says, he has been away with his family and enjoyed it:
[www.standard.co.uk]
It's an extremely long article, but if you press "CTRL + F" and type "foreign" into the find window then you will see what I'm referring to.
[www.standard.co.uk]
It's an extremely long article, but if you press "CTRL + F" and type "foreign" into the find window then you will see what I'm referring to.
Heard Tim Groenewald was non to happy with not being selected for the Wark's match.
Anybody see him around.?.
Anybody see him around.?.
One wonders whose place TG thought he should have taken?
Still, I'd be more worried if TG was happy about his non-selection for the match!
Still, I'd be more worried if TG was happy about his non-selection for the match!
Quote:AGod
You seem to struggle with the meaning of the word "diagnosis," but nevermind.
Is it possible for you to be any more pompous
Is it possible for you to post any more posts about me or things I've said rather than your own thoughts on the actual cricket?
Just wondering?
Oh, and there should be a "?" after your question. That's why they're known as "question marks."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:22:22:45 by AGod.
Just wondering?
Oh, and there should be a "?" after your question. That's why they're known as "question marks."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:22:22:45 by AGod.
It's timmy g Adam d and tommy a all the way for me now in last 3 games. Rest up alf don't overdo Lewis and cove!!
You really don't like people questioning your opinions do you!. There really is no need to be rude :-)
Given that Alf talked about possibly retiring from red-ball cricket at the end of last season, I fervently hope that the club are talking with him re: trying to persuade him NOT to do so at the end of this season.
I don't care if Alf decides to give up the white ball cricket but, at the very least, I'd love to see him agree to play every other CC match (fitness permitting) next season i.e 8 games over the course of the season. If he were to do that, and retire instead from white ball stuff, that would be a (realistic) absolute maximum of 24 days of bowling next season compared to about 68 days that he would have had to bowl this season (if fit for every match).
If Adam Dibble has a future with us - i.e. if DN has not already decided otherwise, then why not get the man in for the Oval on Wednesday and then go from there?
I don't care if Alf decides to give up the white ball cricket but, at the very least, I'd love to see him agree to play every other CC match (fitness permitting) next season i.e 8 games over the course of the season. If he were to do that, and retire instead from white ball stuff, that would be a (realistic) absolute maximum of 24 days of bowling next season compared to about 68 days that he would have had to bowl this season (if fit for every match).
If Adam Dibble has a future with us - i.e. if DN has not already decided otherwise, then why not get the man in for the Oval on Wednesday and then go from there?
Quote:Grockle
I refer you to Joe Root. Who has now found HIS place even though it isn't the one he was placed in during his early time with England by the coaches.
To be fair to the England coaches, Grockle, they merely started him in the role in which Yorkshire coaches at all levels had deployed him throughout his entire career to date. The fact that he had succeeded in a different role is not despite their earlier errors, as you seem to suggest.
AGod, he might have hoped he would have been in the squad in place of Alfonso, I think.
Alfonso as others have also said looks jaded, and generally out of sorts, in the field during the current match he rarely walked in when others were bowling or backed up to throw in's
Certainly not picking on Alf as an individual, but it's plain he needs a rest.
Alfonso as others have also said looks jaded, and generally out of sorts, in the field during the current match he rarely walked in when others were bowling or backed up to throw in's
Certainly not picking on Alf as an individual, but it's plain he needs a rest.
Great not even signed the guy properly and he's unhappy already !! Happy days
Sorry, Grockle, but I don't really know what your 21.59 is supposed to be about.
You said that I seemed to have CJ pegged as 'front guy.'
I was merely pointing out that that is the role that he was being used in and that's why I was looking at him through that prism.
It makes not one iota of difference to me whether he was (or would have been) at 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5....in any of those roles he would have needed to be averaging more than he was doing as a specialist batsman in the side.
If Lewis Gregory gave up bowling tomorrow then I'd say exactly the same about him.
And, yes, Lewis Gregory still says that he sees himself as a 'batsman who bowls,' but it's pretty obvious that his results have been outstanding with the ball (strike-rate of only 43 this season!!) and just okay (for an all-rounder) with the bat. So he can see himself however he wants but the reality is that he will be judged according to the role that he is being asked to fill currently.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:23:07:40 by AGod.
You said that I seemed to have CJ pegged as 'front guy.'
I was merely pointing out that that is the role that he was being used in and that's why I was looking at him through that prism.
It makes not one iota of difference to me whether he was (or would have been) at 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5....in any of those roles he would have needed to be averaging more than he was doing as a specialist batsman in the side.
If Lewis Gregory gave up bowling tomorrow then I'd say exactly the same about him.
And, yes, Lewis Gregory still says that he sees himself as a 'batsman who bowls,' but it's pretty obvious that his results have been outstanding with the ball (strike-rate of only 43 this season!!) and just okay (for an all-rounder) with the bat. So he can see himself however he wants but the reality is that he will be judged according to the role that he is being asked to fill currently.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:18:23:07:40 by AGod.
Ronnie: Roger's post re TimG is speculation and hearsay - nothing there to say he really is unhappy in general, probably just wanted to play - although, like AG, I can't see who deserved to be dropped (unless Alf wanted a rest himself, which I doubt).
Thinking about it, perhaps TG thinks he should have been given a batting spot!!!
To the extent that 50 over performances are deemed relevant to CC selection (not in Leach's case, apparently!) then TG could probably make out a good case for a batting place!!
To the extent that 50 over performances are deemed relevant to CC selection (not in Leach's case, apparently!) then TG could probably make out a good case for a batting place!!
SP & Ronnie, I asked the question re TG, purely because an employee of the club mentioned it to us.
But I imagine TG would want to impress, and he can only do that by playing.
But I imagine TG would want to impress, and he can only do that by playing.
Well I'm glad he's upset, he should be!
Don't really think any of the main 3 seamers deserve dropping, Cove, Lewis and Alfie have done well this year.
If Myburgh keeps his spot there is option of playing a 4th seamer for George!
We have Northants next, so as long as we play properly we "should" win, I know no guarantees but on paper it doesn't get any easier.
Nos been quiet today, did not front up to do press after the game and let Marcus do the website comments, maybe busy prepping for his SL interview.....
Don't really think any of the main 3 seamers deserve dropping, Cove, Lewis and Alfie have done well this year.
If Myburgh keeps his spot there is option of playing a 4th seamer for George!
We have Northants next, so as long as we play properly we "should" win, I know no guarantees but on paper it doesn't get any easier.
Nos been quiet today, did not front up to do press after the game and let Marcus do the website comments, maybe busy prepping for his SL interview.....
Is this when you want to hear him though and what he thinks? In his case maybe not right enough some of the things he comes away with but us certainly want hear his views!!
Yeah, WSM, Nos denied having applied but made zero attempt to imply, let alone state, that he would rebuff any interest in him from SL.
Our next CC line-up will be interesting and might say a lot about whether we are a 'jobs for the boys' club.
If Petersen is fit to play, it will be very tough on Abell if he gets dropped. So somebody else would have to drop out the top 6 to accomodate his return.
I think most of us know who that should be if its based on form and averages etc, but will the club be brave enough to do so?
If Petersen is fit to play, it will be very tough on Abell if he gets dropped. So somebody else would have to drop out the top 6 to accomodate his return.
I think most of us know who that should be if its based on form and averages etc, but will the club be brave enough to do so?
They never have been before (He's only ever been dropped from T20 before, if memory serves.)
I suspect the 'dilemma,' would be resolved by dropping Myburgh instead, although it's anyone's guess as to which of TA, AP or NC would then open with Tres...
I suspect the 'dilemma,' would be resolved by dropping Myburgh instead, although it's anyone's guess as to which of TA, AP or NC would then open with Tres...
Ref not knowing what I'm on about AG. It is a problem I have observed but keep persevering. Understanding may come in time and you may then become a real boy. 😅
Quote:Nailsea_FizzQuote:AGod
You seem to struggle with the meaning of the word "diagnosis," but nevermind.
Is it possible for you to be any more pompous
Gentlemen
Advanced warning.
If you carry on like this it is possibly likely that other concerned posters will attempt to modify your behaviour by posting how 'tedious' this is becoming and identifying their interpretations of your posting inadequacies (though they may only post this about one of you).
It isn't highly likely because I am not involved in this 'spat' but it could happen.
I'd ask you to police yourselves and keep the posts less personal and more cricket related on both sides please or I'll have to pop on and do some 'cleaning' of posts not so inclined.
If you can't manage this yourselves I may have to move your conversation to the "Other One" forum where you can complain about each other to your hearts content.
Thanks
This message was brought to you by the "Neutrally Concerned Posters of Grockles.com".
I really hope Hildreth is dropped, he has been our weakest top 6 batsman this year. Give his place to TA and see if he can keep it till the end of the season.
I, like Roger, have concerned about Alf's demeanor this last few games. He seems troubled and, as Roger states, doesn't always move to the middle for the team huddle after a wicket.
Perhaps he needs a rest? Think I would prefer him to retire from the red ball rather than white.
Think Hildy might need to step down if TA is the alternative for the next four-day match. He is infuriatingly inconsistent at the moment. I hoped Dave Houghton would have grabbed him by the metaphorical throat by now and forced him to become much more difficult to dismiss.
Perhaps he needs a rest? Think I would prefer him to retire from the red ball rather than white.
Think Hildy might need to step down if TA is the alternative for the next four-day match. He is infuriatingly inconsistent at the moment. I hoped Dave Houghton would have grabbed him by the metaphorical throat by now and forced him to become much more difficult to dismiss.
Maybe TG in for Alf next game then SLB? I personally don't like people definitively retiring from any format (unless it means the playing budget is reduced).
Alf's still bowling well in general, so I think there's a year or so left in him yet - but just at the moment, I'd guess he must be exhausted and in need of a rest. It's not like we don't have some others who could come in to give him a break.
I wonder what this was all about during the match when it looked like Alfonso sent Marcus to the boundary to field when he was bowling and Alfonso did all of the field changes.
There is something going on I can't put my finger on.
There is something going on I can't put my finger on.
Alfonso is 38 in February, probably has had to do more bowling this year than he should have done, with SK out of action, I cannot see him wanting to do as much next year.
Will be interesting to see if he is involved in any overseas T20 during the winter, or decides to give his body a rest.
Will be interesting to see if he is involved in any overseas T20 during the winter, or decides to give his body a rest.
The indication of how good Alfonso became when he moved to Taunton is the perception that he has had a poor season with the ball. His good spells are fewer and farer between but when he's good he's very good. Just hope he doesn't go one season too far like Willow and Ben Phillips did.
Alf is, IMO, absolutely fine in the CC. Better than fine.
I'm not stupid, I know the end can come quickly but I cannot see why anyone would rather he retire from red ball stuff than white, as Sloop JB suggested, unless - perhaps, the thought, Sloop, is that if he retires from red ball stuff we might get 2 or even 3 years out of him as a white ball specialist?
Mike - this Alf and Tres fielding business occurred in the CC match with Warks?
Why, on God's green earth, would we have Marcus T fielding on the boundary? Answers on a post-card to Dave N/Alf T/Marcus T (delete as appropriate).
I'm not stupid, I know the end can come quickly but I cannot see why anyone would rather he retire from red ball stuff than white, as Sloop JB suggested, unless - perhaps, the thought, Sloop, is that if he retires from red ball stuff we might get 2 or even 3 years out of him as a white ball specialist?
Mike - this Alf and Tres fielding business occurred in the CC match with Warks?
Why, on God's green earth, would we have Marcus T fielding on the boundary? Answers on a post-card to Dave N/Alf T/Marcus T (delete as appropriate).
That's why it looked so odd, that is that last place Marcus would have put himself.
Grockle he has been very good with the Red ball, very good. I don't know what the answer is for Alf, he hasn't been at his usual high standards with the white ball, it could be workload, form, age or any combination of the 3.
If TG was to take his place in the 4 day stuff that may allow him to concentrate on the format he most wants to. Another scenario is that he becomes just another one day bowling and Gregory becomes our powerplay/death main man (obviously with someone other than Alf supporting him).
If TG was to take his place in the 4 day stuff that may allow him to concentrate on the format he most wants to. Another scenario is that he becomes just another one day bowling and Gregory becomes our powerplay/death main man (obviously with someone other than Alf supporting him).
If it isn't too painful this is the highlights of the last day's play. [www.ecb.co.uk]
God only knows what Hildreth thought he was doing, first ball, after lunch?
If I was running the club, then the club would be trying every conceivable angle to help improve that man's powers of concentration!!! So far as I can see, it's that, more than anything that has prevented him from scoring the volume of runs that would have got him into the Test team.
I'm sure the club psychologist will have already had a good go at trying to think of ways to help him concentrate. Perhaps we need to think outside the box .. perhaps get him playing some other game, during the off-season, that requires fierce concentration - chess or something like that or memory games or something like that!? Whilst the rest are working on their forward defensive with DH, have him playing chess against the best chess player that the ranks of Somerset supporters can offer!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:19:14:02:16 by AGod.
If I was running the club, then the club would be trying every conceivable angle to help improve that man's powers of concentration!!! So far as I can see, it's that, more than anything that has prevented him from scoring the volume of runs that would have got him into the Test team.
I'm sure the club psychologist will have already had a good go at trying to think of ways to help him concentrate. Perhaps we need to think outside the box .. perhaps get him playing some other game, during the off-season, that requires fierce concentration - chess or something like that or memory games or something like that!? Whilst the rest are working on their forward defensive with DH, have him playing chess against the best chess player that the ranks of Somerset supporters can offer!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:19:14:02:16 by AGod.
I think Hildreth is just going through the motions, he has no competition for his place and no real chance of International honours. I think that it would probably be better for him to walk away from us at the end of the year instead of fulfilling that long contract.
A change of scenery would probably do him good, he would not double score a cavalcade runs for another county but has stagnated here.
One of the most talented cricketers we will ever see playing at this ground, which is all the more frustrating.
A change of scenery would probably do him good, he would not double score a cavalcade runs for another county but has stagnated here.
One of the most talented cricketers we will ever see playing at this ground, which is all the more frustrating.
Who knows maybe he doesn't have such a high opinion of his own ability as the majority Of people on this site. Perhaps with a new born child to distract him he's lost the edge. It could even be that he'd been considering walking away altogether.
Maybe he thinks his concentration is just fine, psychologist aren't the answer to every conundrum.
I for one hope he stays on and recovers some consistency
Maybe he thinks his concentration is just fine, psychologist aren't the answer to every conundrum.
I for one hope he stays on and recovers some consistency
Unfortunately it's been 2 seasons now. He generally hits a huge score last game of the season in a non game that boost his stats into looking like he did ok. Maybe letting him sit out the rest of the season will help him to assess what he wants to do going forward.
Personally, Monkey B, I am holding out hope that becoming Captain may help James to concentrate.
Obviously, it could go the other way, weigh on his mind and be inimical to his run-getting ability.
As far as how talented James really is or isn't, Nailsea, I do think that fan (and media) perception of a player's ability can be coloured by the attractiveness of a player's style to the eye. Whilst it's not usually seen as "talent," the ability to focus for long periods of time, maintain focus either side of intervals etc IS, IMO, a cricketing ability in itself.
For example, a lot of media and, perhaps, others would probably maintain that Gower was more talented than his nemesis, Gooch. I do not agree with that because Gooch played arguably the two best Test innings I have ever seen and successive tons on very difficult Headingley tracks against Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall and Bishop on one occasion, and Waqar, Wasim and Mushtaq on the other, require actual playing ability of the very highest order.
One could make a "Somerset," Gooch/Gower parallel between Compton and Hildreth, I think, not that I'm suggesting that either is of those standards, nor that there is any animus at all between the two. What I mean is that most Somerset fans would probably identify Hildreth as the more "talented," of the two but that such an understanding of "talent," overlooks the concentration component, IMO.
Regardless of any of the above averages for James of 32 (last season) and 29 (this season) clearly represent under-achievement for him. And one doesn't really have to assess his talent to do that - simply look at his career average and one can see the extent to which JH is currently under-performing i.e 10+ runs per innings..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:19:14:13:50 by AGod.
Obviously, it could go the other way, weigh on his mind and be inimical to his run-getting ability.
As far as how talented James really is or isn't, Nailsea, I do think that fan (and media) perception of a player's ability can be coloured by the attractiveness of a player's style to the eye. Whilst it's not usually seen as "talent," the ability to focus for long periods of time, maintain focus either side of intervals etc IS, IMO, a cricketing ability in itself.
For example, a lot of media and, perhaps, others would probably maintain that Gower was more talented than his nemesis, Gooch. I do not agree with that because Gooch played arguably the two best Test innings I have ever seen and successive tons on very difficult Headingley tracks against Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall and Bishop on one occasion, and Waqar, Wasim and Mushtaq on the other, require actual playing ability of the very highest order.
One could make a "Somerset," Gooch/Gower parallel between Compton and Hildreth, I think, not that I'm suggesting that either is of those standards, nor that there is any animus at all between the two. What I mean is that most Somerset fans would probably identify Hildreth as the more "talented," of the two but that such an understanding of "talent," overlooks the concentration component, IMO.
Regardless of any of the above averages for James of 32 (last season) and 29 (this season) clearly represent under-achievement for him. And one doesn't really have to assess his talent to do that - simply look at his career average and one can see the extent to which JH is currently under-performing i.e 10+ runs per innings..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:19:14:13:50 by AGod.
It should be said that those averages include half his games on a very good taunton wicket. It is generally still a really good wicket to bat on.
AGod, I personally don't like rewarding people for poor performances. I thing Trego or Keiswetter have alot of the tools needed to be a top captain.
Compton is having a bad season (by his standards) but he is still averaging 40 (which would be excellent for most others). Maybe if there was some animus between the two Hildreth would raise his game to compete.
AGod, I personally don't like rewarding people for poor performances. I thing Trego or Keiswetter have alot of the tools needed to be a top captain.
Compton is having a bad season (by his standards) but he is still averaging 40 (which would be excellent for most others). Maybe if there was some animus between the two Hildreth would raise his game to compete.
I proposed CK as captain at the end of last season, but others, closer to the action than me, gave the impression he wouldn't be right.
Well, Marcus is -one expects, fully expecting to do another full season.
So, if the Trescothick Captaincy era ends at the end of next season then it may terminate at the same time as Nosworthy's spell (at least that's the end of his tenure as currently contracted).
In which case, unless they are planning to hand a D of C gig to Tresco (if he wants it) then somebody from outside the club may well then come in as D of C and they might want to "import," their own candidate for the job of Captain anyway.
So, if the Trescothick Captaincy era ends at the end of next season then it may terminate at the same time as Nosworthy's spell (at least that's the end of his tenure as currently contracted).
In which case, unless they are planning to hand a D of C gig to Tresco (if he wants it) then somebody from outside the club may well then come in as D of C and they might want to "import," their own candidate for the job of Captain anyway.
MikeTA1, yes we all thought it strange to see Marcus on the boundary in the shadow of the flats.(Perhaps he was hot), But like you say he was directed out there by Alf.
But I come back to the point I made regarding Tres not appearing to discuss options with his Vice Captain when we are fielding.It is very noticeable since James (for some reason) has moved out of the slips, as far as I can recall Marcus at 2nd slip has dropped more catches than when James was at 1st slip.James's replacement PT has also dropped a few since he has been in the slips.
But I come back to the point I made regarding Tres not appearing to discuss options with his Vice Captain when we are fielding.It is very noticeable since James (for some reason) has moved out of the slips, as far as I can recall Marcus at 2nd slip has dropped more catches than when James was at 1st slip.James's replacement PT has also dropped a few since he has been in the slips.
Maybe it's more to do with trying to get the slip combo right, rather than worrying about chatting to the vc?
I think you will find that we seen more dropped catches in the slips since the changes.
SP, my point Re Tres and James being not about chatting but more about discussing Tactics
when things are not going well, after all that is part of the duty of having a VC, or would you not agree.
SP, my point Re Tres and James being not about chatting but more about discussing Tactics
when things are not going well, after all that is part of the duty of having a VC, or would you not agree.
Yes.
Re: the captaincy, if James isn't the (internal) favourite to be our next Captain, then I'd argue that there is no point whatsoever in him serving as our current Vice-Captain, surely?
Equally (and to refer to a point talked about on the seconds thread), I can continue to discern little logic in a situation where James Regan seems to have the gloves on a full-time basis in the seconds but is never deemed good enough to deputise for CK in the first-team. That situation just means that, when CK is injured, then his replacement (if Barrow) will always be initially rusty. I understand that Regan needs scope to improve BUT if they are going to default to Barrow when CK is injured then Barrow also needs to do some keeping in the seconds, IMO, rather than Regan getting all of the "reps."
Re: the captaincy, if James isn't the (internal) favourite to be our next Captain, then I'd argue that there is no point whatsoever in him serving as our current Vice-Captain, surely?
Equally (and to refer to a point talked about on the seconds thread), I can continue to discern little logic in a situation where James Regan seems to have the gloves on a full-time basis in the seconds but is never deemed good enough to deputise for CK in the first-team. That situation just means that, when CK is injured, then his replacement (if Barrow) will always be initially rusty. I understand that Regan needs scope to improve BUT if they are going to default to Barrow when CK is injured then Barrow also needs to do some keeping in the seconds, IMO, rather than Regan getting all of the "reps."
Oh yes, I would agree Roger - tho VC can offer just be an honorary sort of thing, rather than necessarily captain-in-waiting. Yes, we may have dropped more catches in the slips since the reshuffle - doesn't mean they haven't been TRYING to get a new combo that works, and it's still a work in progress.
...and Barrow could (I don't know if he does) keep regularly for Bath, which prob isn't a million miles away from the 2s standard-wise.
...and Barrow could (I don't know if he does) keep regularly for Bath, which prob isn't a million miles away from the 2s standard-wise.
I had a look at the Bath website and it seems that Alex B only tends to keep for Bath on those occasions when a guy by the name of Luke Padgett is not available to play in the same side as AB.
This Padgett guy seems to be available most of the time though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:19:16:07:23 by AGod.
This Padgett guy seems to be available most of the time though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:19:16:07:23 by AGod.
Quote:Mike TA1
I think JH has a finger problem that is why he is not in the slips.
Blimey Mike you mean there might be a cricketing reason rather than inferred 'trouble in camp'. Not a much fun though.
I confess, I confess, mea maxima culpa... I have not read all 300+ postings on this thread, even though they had the added interest of being primarily about a match I had actually attended. Perhaps some of them weren't, but that would not be at all surprising.
Anyway I had my first four days of the summer at Taunton and, as usual, I revelled in the companionship that our lovely old ground provides, though I am worried that the new pavilion will do little to enhance it, save in improving the facilities and reducing the chance of ancient members being burned alive (that is, if all of them are actually still alive).
My first regret on arriving a few minutes after the start of play was that Warwickshire were batting. I know there are lots of statistics about the wisdom of batting second Taunton, but I feel inviting the opposition to bat at the country ground in August surrenders some initiative from the outset, especially when their spinner, Patel, is currently in rather better form than our Dockrell. But the decision seemed a good one with the early dismissal of Chopra and we seemed to do quite well until the final session of day one, when we ran out of steam. Overton and Lewis looked the best of our bowlers and Westwood's innings was a thorough irritant. He was quite good to start with, scoring 50% of the runs until the score was in the 170s and then becoming scrappier and scrappier. If he'd been one of ours, I would probably have said what a plucky innings it was, but I found it painful to watch (and not to be compared with Chopra's much finer effort in the second innings).
The high spot of the match for me came on day two with the arrival (some weeks late in my opinion) of Tom Abell. From his very first ball he batted with authority and conviction and a lightness of touch that put me in mind of Joe Root. There was one great moment when he called "No, No" to Hildreth who was contemplating a sharp run; he seemed completely in charge of the occasieon despite batting with a man a decade his senior. It was a real disappointment that he fell five short of his century, shared, I suspect, even by the Warwickshire players who congratulated him as he walked off. He had seen seven wickets fall at the other end before his own demise and seemed quite unfazed by the experience. We shall see many more good things from this young man... until England take him away.
Somerset’s bowling on day three was not very convincing and catching and ground fielding throughout the match were not that of a championship winning side. I think most of us at the ground felt that a target of 400+ would be beyond us – and somebody told me that one of the umpires had said the same thing to him. We marvel that Trescothick makes so many runs without moving his feet, but he seemed particularly statuesque yesterday and it was no great surprise that he seemed just to allow the ball that dismissed him LBW simply to hit him. I know that batting is a bit more complicated than that, but there was nothing complicated about the tamest of dismissals that saw Hildreth lob the ball to mid-on just after lunch, having batted so responsibly before it. Trego did his best to keep us at the wicket and I thought that Barrow batted as well as anybody for a while – but defeat was inevitable and came almost as a relief.
I am in no position to comment on any malaise at the club, though it is obvious that there has been a significant decline in performance in the last two or three weeks. As others have said, we have still lost only two CC matches out of thirteen and we are not yet obliged to call for heads to roll. I have never set eyes on DN, nor he on me, and I doubt it has made any difference to either of us. I am inclined to the Shane Warne view that – as far as the first eleven is concerned – coaches are for taking the team to the ground and Hildreth does not need a coach to tell him that he bats well and gets out badly; he just has to concentrate more. There are no obvious candidates for contract termination and some very talented junior players are beginning to demonstrate their talents. We are not necessarily doomed but cannot deny we are going through a bad phase (which may not last for long).
I am not tearing up my membership card yet – one of you can do that at my funeral (which now has to be postponed yet another year!).
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Anyway I had my first four days of the summer at Taunton and, as usual, I revelled in the companionship that our lovely old ground provides, though I am worried that the new pavilion will do little to enhance it, save in improving the facilities and reducing the chance of ancient members being burned alive (that is, if all of them are actually still alive).
My first regret on arriving a few minutes after the start of play was that Warwickshire were batting. I know there are lots of statistics about the wisdom of batting second Taunton, but I feel inviting the opposition to bat at the country ground in August surrenders some initiative from the outset, especially when their spinner, Patel, is currently in rather better form than our Dockrell. But the decision seemed a good one with the early dismissal of Chopra and we seemed to do quite well until the final session of day one, when we ran out of steam. Overton and Lewis looked the best of our bowlers and Westwood's innings was a thorough irritant. He was quite good to start with, scoring 50% of the runs until the score was in the 170s and then becoming scrappier and scrappier. If he'd been one of ours, I would probably have said what a plucky innings it was, but I found it painful to watch (and not to be compared with Chopra's much finer effort in the second innings).
The high spot of the match for me came on day two with the arrival (some weeks late in my opinion) of Tom Abell. From his very first ball he batted with authority and conviction and a lightness of touch that put me in mind of Joe Root. There was one great moment when he called "No, No" to Hildreth who was contemplating a sharp run; he seemed completely in charge of the occasieon despite batting with a man a decade his senior. It was a real disappointment that he fell five short of his century, shared, I suspect, even by the Warwickshire players who congratulated him as he walked off. He had seen seven wickets fall at the other end before his own demise and seemed quite unfazed by the experience. We shall see many more good things from this young man... until England take him away.
Somerset’s bowling on day three was not very convincing and catching and ground fielding throughout the match were not that of a championship winning side. I think most of us at the ground felt that a target of 400+ would be beyond us – and somebody told me that one of the umpires had said the same thing to him. We marvel that Trescothick makes so many runs without moving his feet, but he seemed particularly statuesque yesterday and it was no great surprise that he seemed just to allow the ball that dismissed him LBW simply to hit him. I know that batting is a bit more complicated than that, but there was nothing complicated about the tamest of dismissals that saw Hildreth lob the ball to mid-on just after lunch, having batted so responsibly before it. Trego did his best to keep us at the wicket and I thought that Barrow batted as well as anybody for a while – but defeat was inevitable and came almost as a relief.
I am in no position to comment on any malaise at the club, though it is obvious that there has been a significant decline in performance in the last two or three weeks. As others have said, we have still lost only two CC matches out of thirteen and we are not yet obliged to call for heads to roll. I have never set eyes on DN, nor he on me, and I doubt it has made any difference to either of us. I am inclined to the Shane Warne view that – as far as the first eleven is concerned – coaches are for taking the team to the ground and Hildreth does not need a coach to tell him that he bats well and gets out badly; he just has to concentrate more. There are no obvious candidates for contract termination and some very talented junior players are beginning to demonstrate their talents. We are not necessarily doomed but cannot deny we are going through a bad phase (which may not last for long).
I am not tearing up my membership card yet – one of you can do that at my funeral (which now has to be postponed yet another year!).
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:Grockle
I wasn"t referring to the Yorkshire coaches FE.
I know that. You seemed to be implying that he had found his "right place" despite the England coaches. Yet the fact that he has "found" that place woth England despite never having "found" it with Yorkshire should be a reason to praise the England set-up. You seem currently though, to wish to bash the system you see as having ruined JOve, at every opportunity.
Perhaps James should indeed pull his finger out (from wherever it is stuck) Mike !
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Oh dear I seem to have upset you once again FE.
I'll 'bash' the system if I think it needs bashing and I think it does. I don't know why Jove is brought into this. I think they didn't do him any favours but I can't think I've commented about him in any real detail since somewhere around the Trent Bridge CC game some two months ago. I have commented on his seeming rehabilitation in the seconds.
I was using Root as an example - damn I'm not really sure of what now - of where someone had been sort of pigeon holed and hadn't stayed there I think. You seem to be using it as some way to criticise my holding of an opinion rather than the opinion itself.
Has something changed FE? Do I have to now get something signed in order to continue to hold an opinion different to yours for a period of time? I'll hold my view of the selection process as long as I see little change in it. You are welcome to hold a different opinion without a licence as far as I am concerned and although I'll debate it with you I won't hold a grudge against you because you hold it.
Please try and discuss the opinion rather than your seeming dislike of the way I hold it. What business of yours that is I fail to really understand.
I'll 'bash' the system if I think it needs bashing and I think it does. I don't know why Jove is brought into this. I think they didn't do him any favours but I can't think I've commented about him in any real detail since somewhere around the Trent Bridge CC game some two months ago. I have commented on his seeming rehabilitation in the seconds.
I was using Root as an example - damn I'm not really sure of what now - of where someone had been sort of pigeon holed and hadn't stayed there I think. You seem to be using it as some way to criticise my holding of an opinion rather than the opinion itself.
Has something changed FE? Do I have to now get something signed in order to continue to hold an opinion different to yours for a period of time? I'll hold my view of the selection process as long as I see little change in it. You are welcome to hold a different opinion without a licence as far as I am concerned and although I'll debate it with you I won't hold a grudge against you because you hold it.
Please try and discuss the opinion rather than your seeming dislike of the way I hold it. What business of yours that is I fail to really understand.
I was discussing the opinion - or perhaps the prejudice.
I was discussing the fact that the facts do not support the opinion: which kind of suggests that it's a prejudice.
IMHO, of course.
I was discussing the fact that the facts do not support the opinion: which kind of suggests that it's a prejudice.
IMHO, of course.
I was discussing the personal nature of the comments themselves FE and the fact that it is the second time in about a fortnight that it has happened. Also to some extent a form of prejudice in itself.
You are correct that your opinionated generalisation about my posting activity does not fit the facts. On the Root aspect I can respect that you don't agree but after all it is only an opinion about only a game so I would also respectfully suggest you chill out and keep the personals to yourself.
Thanks
You are correct that your opinionated generalisation about my posting activity does not fit the facts. On the Root aspect I can respect that you don't agree but after all it is only an opinion about only a game so I would also respectfully suggest you chill out and keep the personals to yourself.
Thanks
What a thoroughly obnoxious and self-important load of twaddle!
In my opinion, of course.
Don't bother to bar me: I won't be back.
In my opinion, of course.
Don't bother to bar me: I won't be back.
I never had any intention whatsoever of 'barring' you. I simply asked for you to be a little less personal.
There is no compulsion to post here. I'm personally surprised and sorry for this response but it's your decision though I'm sure I won't be the only one.
Should you reconsider then Grockle is an open site. Enjoy your cricket and if you aren't back then winter well and enjoy future seasons
Thanks for your contributions in the past the place has been better for you being here.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:24:21:05:11 by Grockle.
There is no compulsion to post here. I'm personally surprised and sorry for this response but it's your decision though I'm sure I won't be the only one.
Should you reconsider then Grockle is an open site. Enjoy your cricket and if you aren't back then winter well and enjoy future seasons
Thanks for your contributions in the past the place has been better for you being here.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:08:24:21:05:11 by Grockle.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Somerset News 24/7
More Somerset headlines
- Metro50 Game1 - Welcome to the next stage - Notts at Welbeck
- Blast Finals Day Semi 1 - It's Northants Again!!
- Blast Quarter Final Here We Go at Headingley
- Blast Game 12 - Simple Beat the Pears!!
- Women's Blast Game 12 - Fanx Tara Towie
- Blast Game 11 - Northants Part 2 - Gregory Back?
- Women's Blast Game 11 - Blazing Away\!!
- Blast Game 10 - Derby to the Wire as well
- Women's Blast Game 10 - Down to the Wire v Essex
Somerset latest threads
- Poll: 2026 Best Blast Player
- Poll: Best CC1 Player Part 1
- Metrobank 50 Game2 - Home Derby
- Members online forum - the future of SCCC
- Metro50 Game1 - Welcome to the next stage - Notts at Welbeck
- Blast Finals Day Semi 1 - It's Northants Again!!
- RIP the GREAT Gary Sobers
- Metro50 NOT "Developmental" by choice
- Blast Quarter Final Here We Go at Headingley
- England One Dayers