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How Long Oh Lord? How Long?


Will he? Won't he?

By Grockle
September 17 2011

The second time to Lord's in two seasons for a 40 over final.  The fifth short format Final in 3 years and we have yet to come away with silverware.  Will this be the day?  Craig Kieswetter and Jos Buttler have made the trip across from Wales after the England game and the skipper will have travelled with the side...BUT will he take the field?  His ankle injury is not healed but a decision will have been made as to whether it will support him for 80 overs of the last game for him of the season.  If it does he will lead the batting, if it doesn't we lose a major weapon in an arsenal that has been battered by absenteeism and injury since the beginning of the month.  It put paid to our CC1 hopes...what about the only trophy still available?

v Surrey CB40 Final @ Lord's Saturday 17 September 2011

Scorecard

Commentary

Marcus Trescothick does lead his team out in the last fixture for him of 2011.  His side consists of;

Trescothick, Kieswetter, Trego, Compton, Hildreth, Buttler, Suppiah, Meschede, Kartik, Thomas and Kirby

The surprise in that line up must be Craig Meschede who was not expected ahead of George Dockrell or Lewis Gregory. One has to assume that the pitch is not for spinners and that Lewis is not fit enough to turn out. The skipper won the toss and decided to post a score. Against Aarafat and Spreigel the two openers started to get down to work but things did not go entirely to plan as with a mere 24 on the board near the end of the 5th over  the Boss's gamble seems to have come to an end as he was stumped by Davies off the bowling of Spreigel.  Once more Somerset would have to do it without the man with the big bat.

It got a little hairier for the batting line-up when Kieswetter was caught behind with his score only in the teens during the 8th over and the newly returned Nick Compton strode out to join his partner Peter Trego. at 36 for 2.  These two were then tasked with setting the store out for later run accumulation but 15 or 16 sems to be a popular score today because no sooner had Trigger passed 50 than he became Dernbach's first victim at 56 for 16.  Somerset reach 50 in the first 10 but have their front end blown away in the process....it's going to be a long afternoon as Compo and Hildreth look to limit the early damage before they try and get the innings back on a track to a defendable and hopefully victorious total.

But from the off it seems that Surrey had th3e right tactics and Somerset are playing catch up.  Hamilton Browne has gone in with 5 spinners (we have two).  Instead of playing the attacking game we hoped for, the openers allowed the spinners to take hold and then the momentum is with the bowling side.  And so it continues as first Hildreth  is bowled by Schofield at 66 with only 3 to his name and then the nightmare continues as Suppiah is found LBW to Batty in front at 79.  No-one has got into the twenties yet, Jos, our last real hope is at the crease and we aren't even halfway through the game yet!!  150 looks out of reach at the moment.

Nick and Jos nurse the score past 100 in the 20th with both men looking to push the score along but with an eye on the long way ahead and the little strength remaining in the hutch.  That is why the reverse sweep idiocy played by Compton in the 24th beggars belief!!  Ansari bowls him around his legs as he plays a gambling shot to a ball on middle and is skittled for 26 off 41 to leave his partner high and dry with the tail at 124 for 6.  If you are going to work to get 26 off 41, you've basically said "I'll anchor the innings, you do the big scoring" and then you play a shot like that.  It is why Nick is still not the certainty we all want him to be.

SO...in comes Craig Meschede and the Surrey lot see Jos as their big obstacle to a massacre.  The skipper brings Dernbach on to remove the Somerset man and his first ball suggests a snick that just doesn't fall into Davies' gloves.  Not sure myself but it doesn't carry so no problem.  Craig knows his job is to get his partner on strike and he helps him move the score along until he gets a leading edge and puts the ball straight back to the bowler (Batty) with only 10 to his name and he is on his way before we reach 150.  147 for 7.

Alf is no slouch but walking out in this position can be no fun.  13 overs to go and nothing on the board to defend!  He helps take the total past 150 and then to 165 where the wonderful Buttler passes a 48 ball 50 with a sumptuous boundary one side of fine leg followed immediately by another one the other side of fine leg.  Something for the patient West country faithful to cheer for a change!  With 5 to go there is a flicker of hope at 177 for 7 but Dernbach snuffs some of that out when after only going for one off the first four balls of the over he has Thomas caught behind off the 5th.

Kartik enters and gets a single off his first so we have 180 with 4 to go and Somerset take the batting powerplay (because they have no option)!  Arafat takes the 36th, JB misses the first but puts the second to the boundary, misses the third but the fourth is a leg bye boundary.  The young man takes a single to allow his spinning partner to take a boundary off the last ball and the Somerset crowd start to loosen their vocal chords.

Buttler faces Dernbach and sixes ball 1 bringing the 200 up with the first six of the game but with 13 balls to go MK is bowled by the England man's 88 mph 'swinger' and we watch the Mighty Blocker that is Steve Kirby stomp out to bat.  He first gets a bouncer which he swings out of the way of and then stares balefully at the younger bowler (that one is in the book).  Then he nearly plays the next one on before providing a perfect forward defensive to put his big hitter on strike for the 38th.

Arafat delivers ball one.  Jos smites it to the boundary for four.  Arafat delivers ball two.  Jos does even better and puts this one over the boundary for six!  Ball 3 he leaves and takes a single off ball 4 to bring up 400 runs for himself in one day cricket (batting at number 6!!) and 211 for 9 for his county.  Kirby faces ball 5.  It's a wide and it brings another huge cheer.  He then blocks out ball 6 as if he has all day.

The last over.  Jos on 84 vital runs has kept us in this game for a while at least.  Can he top it off by making Surrey wonder by adding double figures in these 6 balls?  Dernbach fires in the first and Buttler nearly gets it past Ansari for four but it is cut off and he only gets 2.  He'll not run odd number possibilities.  Ball number 2 and it is all over as he steps away and is bowled for 86 leaving his side on 214.  It isn't enough but it is a total down to only one man really and if nothing comes from this game we have one awesome player who did not let us down!!

Pitiful total.  Once more Somerset come to a Final and vastly underperform.

The Reply

Hamilton Browne and Davies arrive to start the Surrey reply and they face Alf taking the first and Steve taking the second.  Nothing much happens until the fourth when Davies says bye bye and trudges back courtesy of Kirby and the hands of Kartik in the slips.  19 for 1.  An early wicket down but Surrey are up with the rate and the wickets have to keep tumbling if Somerset are to maintain their fingertips on the handle of the trophy.  One big partnership and this is over for another year.

26 for 1 at 5 is enough for victory.  The rain starts to come down and this seems to break Roy's concentration and Kirby strikes again as the Surrey batsman has a swipe and is caught behind for 11 out of 35.  One ball left of the 6th and we are off for rain.  35 for 2.... 20 overs is a game!

A long layoff and a reduced target does not exactly help us much.  When they do finally get back on fully it is a 30 over game with a 186 run target.  Maynard and Hamiton Browne are the partnership and they get moving ominously but are checked by Suppiah getting Maynard caught behind at 77 but the target is small and the Surrey captain is controlling the game from the crease.  They pass 100 just after he reaches a good 50 and Marcus starts to run out of bowlers.  Why didn't he play Dockrell is the question I think is on many lips because we need tight control and we have to look to Pete Trego and Craig Meschede to do it.  Schofield has been brought in because he is a batsman who looks to push the spinners around but at the end of the 17th over Surrey are 102 for 3 needing 84 to win off 78 balls.  Arul is bowling well but Schofield is looking for runs off him.  They are moving the total along too quickly and we need a wicket.  The skipper may have to bring his attack bowlers back to try and break the Surrey middle or this game is gone.

He tries but it is too late and although Thomas gives us hope when he gets Schofield caught by the skipper at 135 and that man Jos Buttler gets the Surrey boss out of his crease with a superb pick up and throw (one of many run out chances Surrey gave but the only one that was completed by a Somerset fielder) at 147, it isn't going to be and Spreigle and Zander get the Brownhats home with 5 wickets in hand and 15 balls to go.

Another Final another runners up medal.  Another big game another small batting performance (so much worse had Buttler not made it respectable) some more pressure another capitulation.  There will be post mortems and there will be suggestions about changes and new policies to combat it but we've been here before and the AGM will be full of explanations abut why and how it will be different in 2012....will it?  I guess we'll have to hope so and wait and see.  The official Facebook page has the title 'Gutted'.  Weren't they 'Gutted' last year?  Do they have any guts left to be removed?  I think it's more a case of 'Unsurprising' nowadays.... not happy but what's new?

 

 

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How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockles.com (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 12:18
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:23:17:03:07 by Grockle.

 
CB40 Final 2011
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 18:25
For anyone wanting to get your tickets quickly ! :

[tickets.lords.org]

Grizzzly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:13:25:35 by Grockle.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Botham (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 18:40
Thanks for the link Grizzly. I'm tempted to use it but want to sit with our own supporters if we get an allocation in the Grandstand.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
LordHester (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 18:44
There's also a promotional offer here: [tickets.lords.org]

Two adult tickets for £60, or four for £100

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Botham (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 21:13
Thanks LordHester, but alas these tickets cannot be reserved in areas for the finalists, but still an excellent deal. It would be good to find out which areas of the ground the Somerset tickets are in.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
taung (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 11:49
It will be very interesting to see if Zander will be available for the final this year for our opponents as he went missing at the appropriate time in 2010.

Some people blamed him in his absence at Lords for the decline from 176-3 to 199 all out.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 12:10
Does anyone know if we are restricted to one ticket per member from the club

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Sloop John B (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 12:57
No Nailsea - I was asked if I wanted more than one ticket. Don't know if they will sell just one more or several!

Bus arrangements will be known by lunchtime Tuesday apparently.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 13:26
Thanks SJB, I just need one more for my non member brother

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Botham (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 13:59
I believe it's two per member.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 16:00
Indeed it was

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
NW5Somerset (IP Logged)
09/09/2011 19:47
Gutted to miss this. Family plans unfortunately.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
09/09/2011 19:49
Me too, NW5 - I'll be following it on my mobile, same as last year - but praying for a better result!

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
NW5Somerset (IP Logged)
09/09/2011 20:06
I'll actually be playing cricket in Chedworth, Gloucestershire with the family on the sidelines.

Might try and forget all about the result and watch the highlights.....

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
nelliec (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 11:26
Any news on Tres's and Gregory's ( ability to bowl 8 overs),and Compo's injuries.Also would it make sense to give Alf a rest this week before the final and Champions league?

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Grockle (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 16:49
It's not just Lewis's ability to bowl 8 overs Nell. It's the quality of those overs, the fielding he will have to do if he goes into the match with an injury and the fact he may have to bat for our lives.

He's got to be capable of fully contributing or he has to stand aside.



(Sm72)

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
nelliec (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 21:22
MT states on the main website that he's still hoping to be available saturday.Let's hope that's the case. Also with NC almost certain to be available it will hopefully create a few selection problems.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 22:21
Yes, if Nick's having a fitness test in the morning, even if he doesn't make it, he must be pretty certain to be fit for Saturday.

I'll still be surprised to see Tres play on Saturday, I'm afraid.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
wsm fan (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 22:27
Yep, unless MT can somehow prove he's 99% fit then it would be a huge risk.
As good as he is i'm not sure we can afford him to retire early in his innings again putting us 0-1 potentially.

Also what are the rules in the field, if we batted first and irst and he got injured would Surrey be in their rights to make us field with 10? If the roles were reversed i would not be happy them having a sub fielder given the injury was known coming into the game.

Kim Barnett (40+) was bad enough in 99 final v Glos batting then getting a sub fielder for our innings

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Scrumper (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 22:30
Don't think it would be wise to risk Nick tomorrow. But if Banger's fit for Saturday then Nick might not play!

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 18:48
I have just sat down and before I start with my photos I wanted to give what looks like bad news.

I watched Marcus trying his ankle out and it didn’t look good, after running a full length of a pitch he ended up holding his ankle and he was limping quite badly.
To me it looks very doubtful that he will play Saturday.

We can live in hope.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Norwich SCCC (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 19:37
That is bad news, Mike TA1.

It looked a bad injury at the time and time was not on our side. However, there is still five days and miracles can still happen.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
wsm fan (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 19:55
That doesn't sound good Mike.

If there is any doubt (which it sounds there is) then i really dont see any sense in risking it.

Huge risk that it could go again whilst batting, and surely he will be a liability in the field, and if we field first would mean our chase starts 0-1 if it went again.

We did it without him in the semi and no reason we cant again, Kieswetter back, and maybe Compo too, plenty of other match winners too

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
AGod (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 20:21
No sense in risking Marcus, really.

Surrey would indeed be well within their rights to make us field with 10 - and deny Marcus a runner if the injury plays up again.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 20:58
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8145/marcustrescothickanklef.jpg

This was Marcus after he sprinted the length of the pitch, it didn’t look good.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
ronnies (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 21:00
sounds like he won't be there. I have my doubts whether he should be attempting the bike ride he is doing at the end of the season either but I am not a cyclist and dont know what damage if any that would do. I hope is okay long term really

A team of Kieswetter, Suppiah, Trego, Compo, Hildreth Buttler, Meschede. Kartik, Thomas, dockrell/Waller and Kirby would do for me. Quite a good balance to it I think although better if Marcus was there.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
wsm fan (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 21:18
Totally agree with that suggested line up.
Would like to think Max had a chance but quite sure George will be preferred.
This will give us 3 spin options and 4 seam options.

We have to trust the top 6 to score the runs, with contributions from Craig, Alfie and Kartik if required

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
ronnies (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 22:36
not many agree WSM but I think its the strongest we've got without Marcus. Id actually put it out in that batting order too.

Hildy should be in fine fettle now and hopefully Trego will on Saturday too...he must be due, surely!!!

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
wsm fan (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 23:01
With no Tres i dont think there is any other option is there?

Lewis may get in if fully fit but don't see he'll get in as a batter only.

All others i think are on the fringe, Barrow, Jones, Dibble, Hussain, Max.

Quite sure it will be as you quoted, but maybe with Compo at 3.
We do seem flexible though as Meschede has come higher on occasions, and even Kartik.

With that XI though there is more than enough match winners to do it on the day.
In a forty over game you just need 3 or 4 players to really stand up.
If we get 2 big scores, 60+, with other contributions, and say Kartik/Thomas can take 3 wickets with support from others that will be enough.

All about who tuns up on the day ...

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Scrumper (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 00:23
Too much bowling, I'd play Jones.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
LordHester (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 03:42
Ronnies - quite conceivable that Marcus' bike ride could help recovery of his ankle, rather than do any damage. Cycling's quite good for such injuries because it helps strengthen the tendons without having the same constant impact as you get while running.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Chinaman (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 08:30
I'd go with Ronnies' side too. Dockrell for me rather than Waller. If Compo's unfit then Barrow or Jones instead.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 08:53
I think the jury is totally out on Jones to be honest f red. He hasnt really done it for me and he has had low scores every time he has gone to the wicket in recent times. He looked okay in the semi final but a big ask for him Id say.

Totally think WSM has it spot on. Its about 2/3 players coming good and making a difference on the day. Hoefully its our big players.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Grockle (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 09:58
If it was just a batting aspect you possibly would say. Stick him at one end and let him hit boundaries!! He's always been criticised about his foot movement (tic) but it is more than that and I think you are right Mike...if we see Tres on Saturday in anything but a commentating role we will be very lucky



(Sm72)

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 10:08
In his report on Cricinfo, George Dobell says that Somerset supporters would have been glad to see Tres running during the lunch interval and implies that we should be optimistic about his possible appearance on Saturday.

I'm loath to call GD wrong (as I like him on so many other matters) but I'm surprised he seems to think Tres migt play. GD also repeats the common feeling (possibly mainly outside our county boundaries) that too many of James' runs have come on the featherbeds at Taunton.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 10:30
If you read Bangers twitter account he seems upbeat on there. I don't know when Mike saw him limping after the latest run,( possibly it was at the end of play) and therefore GD's report of this and the last tweat didnt actually take account of the latest developments.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Chinaman (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 10:35
He sounds quietly optimistic on the latest Compo's Clips (see other thread), so maybe there's still a chance he could play.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 11:00
From BBC twitter: "Somerset chairman of cricket Vic Marks confirms that Marcus Trescothick was in the nets today but "odds against" him playing CB40 final."

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
13/09/2011 18:33
Quote:
SheptonPaul
From BBC twitter: "Somerset chairman of cricket Vic Marks confirms that Marcus Trescothick was in the nets today but "odds against" him playing CB40 final."

I was about to post the Marcus was in the nets this morning then I read your post Paul.

Vic is the one that would know.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 07:04
I hope Marcus doesn't play for his sake...although for my sake I'd like him to . I cannot believe he has recovered enough although he has tried so hard.
I'm not going-only because travel from here makes an extremely long day and I have to be back for Sunday morning.
We are definite 2nd favourites, as we were against Durham and I am not expecting a win, but I am hoping like mad, I am supporting like mad and on the day anything can happen, Surrey have a decent team but their wheels have fallen off before now.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
nelliec (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 07:17
Starting to sound that we MIGHT be almost at full strength saturday, although you would have to worry about Tres ,Nick or Gregory breaking down.
Love to see;
Tres,CK,Tregs,Hildy,NC,Jos,Gregory,Alf,Murali,George,and Kirbs.Would Arul miss out if Tres fit? or would he be ahead of Gregory?

OOPs! Forgot Craig Meschede as well!! Could be an interesting selection.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:15:07:46:39 by nelliec.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 10:10
If MT does play, I hope that we will bat first. In the light of his aggravating his injury while batting or fielding, I'd rather we fielded with ten men than batted with ten.

I feel Surrey would be within their rights not to allow us a substitute fielder if he exacerbates his existing injury during the match - we would expect Somerset to behave similarly.



LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Big Jim (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 11:23
Unless of course Marcus picks up a new injury.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Bobstan (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 14:32
I'm trying to work out whether that is the post of an optimist or a pessimist, James.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 14:48
I think, Bobstan, that BJ's post was that of a daftasabrushist.



LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Bobstan (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 15:11
Ah. I couldn't possibly comment.

 
The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Zyder head (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 20:30
After the disappointment of previous finals coupled with the salt rubbed into the wound by having Lancashire presented with the CC Pennant at our beloved Taunton can we finally have a trophy presented to us rather than to our oponents??
I believe we are much the better side player for player but I think I remember saying that in every other final we have played in recently.
We are not favourites which is a change from the last few finals we have been involved in so that may help take the pressure off but the players looked so down and out during that last hour at Taunton today that they will need a lift at Lords and hopefully just being at that special place will do it. I intend singing and shouting myself hoarse and will get behind the lads.I have now got to the point when I don`t expect anything from a trip to a final watching Somerset (apart from a hangover the following day.....) so maybe that is the best way to be,pleasantly surprised ???
This is now a vital match, maybe for the future of the club from a playing perspective as a victory would give the players some confidence to sail into next season with wind in the sails gathering momentum or defeat could mean us drifting on the tide with momentum of the past few seasons ebbing away with mental scars from our battles lost to boot.......
Fingers and everything else crossed and I know we are good enough



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:12:39:22 by Grockle.

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
old boy! (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 21:27
Yes I want to win but so does the other lot. Lets hope for a good clean fight and if we are second again, there are at least a dozen or more sides that would happily settle for two seconds and a fourth plus a trip to India!!

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
NW5Somerset (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 21:42
Not going and not finding out the score until late Saturday night.

Anything to get us a trophy.

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
BristolBrend (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 22:19
Lets all just go to Lords and be very loud! Hopefully we will cheer the boys on to glory!

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Scrumper (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 22:30
Blatantly copied from Surrey website:

The full Surrey squad to face Somerset in the CB40 Final at Lord’s on Saturday 17th September is:
Rory Hamilton-Brown (Captain)
Steven Davies (Wicket Keeper)
Jason Roy
Tom Maynard
Zander de Bruyn
Matthew Spriegel
Zafar Ansari
Chris Schofield
Gareth Batty
Yasir Arafat
Jade Dernbach
Tim Linley
Stuart Meaker
Gary Wilson


So no KP...

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
15/09/2011 22:52
...or Ojha!

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Botham (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 08:13
I hope the weather is kind and it's warm!

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
AGod (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 08:23
Well they could not have picked both of Ojha and Yasir Arafat and Lord's not usually much of a turner.

Happily, Lord's is not usually slow, either.

Our two very unconvincing performances in recent one-day finals both came on a slow track at Edgbaston. We were much better at the Rose Bowl and Lord's, last time out, so I believe that we will give a good account of ourselves, win or lose.

If I were Surrey, I would not have selected KP either. Let's face it, he is really a Surrey player in name only.

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
NW5Somerset (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 09:36

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
AGod (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 09:50
I think James is right that many counties are not that bothered about the Pro 40. It will be sad if there is a very small crowd.

I do miss the days of banner 55 and 60 over finals.

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 09:51
yeah so do I..you back yer hols now AG?.........excellent time had by all I presume?

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 10:42
I miss the 65 overs matches...



LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Railboy (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 11:39
I don't think any county sets out thinking it is meaningless, but in it's current format if you lose 2 of your first 3 games you are effectively out but still have to plod through the remaining 9 fixtures. Thus making it meaningless.
The league system kept interest alive, particularly as 3 up 3 down meant that if you weren't in contention for the title you were in the relegation scrap. Maybe keep the Unicorns, Netherlands, Scotland etc and make it 3 Divisions.

If we are to have semis and finals, lets go back to the excitement of straight knock out and get it earlier in the year. Late September is too late for a showpiece.

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 12:27
No match in a knock-out competition, as the Gillette Cup used to be, are never meaningless!



LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Botham (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 13:08
I think the prices are too high, coupled with expensive food, drink and travel, putting the game beyond the means of many.

This coupled with the rubbish weather we have recently endured, the excellent tv coverage and the football and rugby seasons in full swing, further reduce the popularity.

 
Re: The Good Ship Somerset sets sail for Lords (or is it the Mary Celeste??....)
Grockle (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 13:19
But none of that detracts from the raw excitement you only get from being there when it comes right.

Lord's at 10 o'clock in the morning on a finals day just has a level of anticipation it is hard to describe unless you experience it.



(Sm72)

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 16:34
News Filtering through that Captain Fantastic will play tomorrow unless he has a reacton overnight

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
AGod (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:11
I fervently hope that there are more important things in Marcus's future than a Pro 40 Final.

By Marcus's own admission he is at least 3 weeks from being properly match-fit. I fear this is a mistake and I had hoped that Brian Rose would be stronger in this matter. Marcus's keenness to play and willingness to put himself through the pain barrier is not a surprise, but I'd say it should be Brian's job to prevent Marcus from taking any kind of risk with his long-term future.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Grockle (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:22
I doubt there is a long term future implication AG.

Don't forget he expected to play with this until the end of the season anyway and take the longer lay off over the winter because of it.

He is simply costing his presence tomorrow against the time it will take to heal properly in the next six months. The question for tomorrow will be can he contribute effectively for 80 overs. If not he should not play.



(Sm72)

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
N Hughes (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:29
Wish I was going, have a great day those attending, bring home the cup........

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
old boy! (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:35
I think it is a risk worth taking. The big question is persumably if he breaks down, there will be no runner or sub fielder allowed - he would just have to hit 4s and 6s and field at first slip.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
AGod (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:41
He will probably have to field at slip all day anyway? That or be 'hidden,' somewhere in the field?

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
old boy! (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:45
I think the only hiding place would be long stop to the keeper.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 17:53
Or ftm nothing goes there (TIC)

Edit - spelling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:18:27:21 by Mike TA1.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Naxxar (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 18:09
So our captain and best player hasn't played for 3 weeks and may not be 100% fit...

Compton hasn't played for a similar period..

Kieswetter will drive down to London from Cardiff in the early hours of tomorrow to play his first match for us in a month..

Buttler faces a similar journey though admittedly he hasn't played today...

Surrey on the other hand have a short journey to Lords having had an extra day off to prepare...buoyed by promotion

we've lost 4 finals in a row

A very talented ex player who refused to represent us in the final last year will be playing against us..a story just waiting to be happen (lets hope not)


Hmmmm..am I totally mad in still thinking we are going to win tomorrow smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley

COME ON SOMERSETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT




(reason for edit..I wrote 5 losing finals..hope I didn't tempt fate!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:18:11:55 by Naxxar.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Norwich SCCC (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 19:28
Best of luck to the boys tomorrow at Lords.

Unfortunately I am at Newmarket races on a stag do, so will have to keep up to date with events by phone.

Get their openers out early and we will win - we have the better players, so lets have no regrets this time tomorrow.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Scrumper (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 19:52
England innings reduced 40 overs, perfect practice for CK!

Oh he's out, start the car.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
16/09/2011 20:00
Naxxar,

If we can overcome all those obstacles, it will be all the sweeter, Lets hope so

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
nelliec (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 20:36
Rather Craig got a dodgy decision tonight than tommorrow.Would have loved to see him hit a hundred tonight but maybe we would all appreciate it more against Surrey.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
WaresWurzel (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 20:51
And so here we are again, it’s the evening before the last county game of the season and our beloved Somerset are in another final. Train times are all sorted and Mrs WaresWurzel and I have that buzz of excitement you get the evening before a final at Lords. It feels like we are underdogs for this final which after the semi against Durham I think will suit us.

I am sure, like all of you, if you would have offered me 2 finals days again this season and in contention for the CC with 3 games to go I would have taken it. It surely goes to show how mentally strong the boys have been again this season, not only after last season but the season before also.

So it’s time to be mentally strong one more time boys and get over that winning line.

Come on Somerset



Wurz

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
nelliec (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 20:57
The 8.09 to paddington could be a bit lively in the morning.All the best Somerset.Our time has come!!
It's 8.19am actually but I'm always told a different time cus I'm always late!(Sm120)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:21:01:04 by nelliec.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
16/09/2011 22:17
Good luck Somerset !

Bring the Trophy home & be proud doing it !

Grizzzly

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Scrumper (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 00:14
We are better than them. Just do it.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Grockle (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 08:43
The commentators last night said that CK and Dernbach were travelling down together...along with Jos I think though I hope they released him an awful lot earlier in the game!!



(Sm72)

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 08:45
Today is the day of the T(ea) Party. Trego Trescothick and Thomas. I expect great things from Pete in particular.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Big Jim (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 09:01
Good luck to the Somerset team today.
Whilst they are not the best team in the land by a wide margin I hope they do well and at least give Surrey a run for their money.
I hope it's sunny for those who are able to attend this game and you have a nice team.
It's the taking part that matters not the winning you know.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
madglover (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 10:42
Hopefully Tresco will be available for selection the side I'd pick is

Tresco
Kieswetter
Trego
Compton
Hildreth
Buttler
Suppiah
Thomas
Kartik
Kirby
Dockrell

Maybe Lewis in for Supps or Dockrell?

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
WyvernRose (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 11:22
Tres is playing.. lets hope he takes after Gordon Greenidge as he doesn't sound 100% and hearing him say "as long as it doesn't rupture completely" made me nervous!

C'mon lads!

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
WyvernRose (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 11:26
Somerset have won the toss and will bat.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
WyvernRose (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 11:48
sigh

all that effort to get fit! 15 off 17 and gets stumped.

 
Re: CB40 Final 2011
Big Jim (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 11:53
May the best side win.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 12:40
Not going so good.

Come on Somerset.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 12:42
Will need Jos at his very best or it's yet another defeat in this very poor end to our season.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
edinburghbil (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:07
Brilliant effort from Jos! Still an under par score, but at least we have a total to defend. Need to take early wickets to put them uder any sort of pressure though IMO.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:09
Intelligent batting from Jos but not from the rest. (Not my words).

Why is Craig Meschede being picked, he may be one for the future but at this moment I can’t see it, prove me wrong when you bowl.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:20
Terrible batting from several who should have known better, yet we still scored 15 more than last year. Early wickets and who knows.
Just seen next years draw. Don't fancy that group at all.
Up and at em lads

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
edinburghbil (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:24
Gregory's one day bowling aside, none of our future young stars have looked quite ready to step up and claim a regular place in the first XI.

Senior batters don't seem to have been able to take enough pressure of them consistently enough and they have been exposed too much to having to get runs under pressure.

If we don't play them though, how will they get the experience ?

Don't get me wrong, there have been encouraging performances which give hope for the future, but non of them looks quite there as a first eleven regular.

That's all for next year. All that matters now is to put pressure on Surrey and hope they crack!

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:28
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9403/cb402012draw.jpg

CB40 2012 Draw. We are in a strong group.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:41
As I've said in the report Mike I can only explain Craig's inclusion as a statement that Lewis isn't fit. Is George available for this? If he is why isn't he in as Surrey have gone in (quite effectively) with 5 spinners.

So I thought we had decided it was not a spinners pitch and as Lewis was not available the obvious choice was CM. But he hasn't shown the promise I personally hoped for with the bat so as you say we have to hope he shows it with the ball. Along with Pete who has underperformed today so we need something from him

And thanks for the stubborn bloody mindedness of Stephen Kirby. He loves a scrap doesn't he.

Excellent work by Dernbach at the end though. fightinh with Alf as the top one day death bowler.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:17:15:02:20 by Grockle.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 14:51
George D was in the squad.

 
Re: How long Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:03
Then makes no sense to me at all unless they thoght their batting was weak...which would have been a good call as it turned out!!



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:08
To be fair, Lord's in not usually known as a turning track. However, it does seem that Surrey read it correctly.

Great stuff from Jos but I doubt if it will be enough, especially now that they will get a shortened chase.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:42
It's not a case of a turning track or reading it. This is always the Surrey game plan. It's not ours. The rain hasn't helped us I'm afraid.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
edinburghbil (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:46
What happens if this doesn't get completed today ? Do we complete this match tomorrow or what ?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
hantssabre (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:49
Reserve day tomorrow

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:52
If we don't get twenty overs in today we are back tomorrow, that would make the t20 comp. even more of a rush to get there.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
edinburghbil (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 15:57
But would we complete this match tomorrow i.e bowl the remaining (up to) 33 overs.

I'm assuming that there is no way this incomplete match could be declared void ? I'm assuming not!

Would we care if we won on a bowl out ?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 16:13
I don’t know what happens tomorrow if the match is less than 40 overs today to get a finish; will it return back to 40 overs?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 16:20
Pretty sure that any D/L calculation that applies today would simply be carried over until tomorrow.

GM - the many spinners may often be Surrey's plan, but then their home games are played on a turning track.

As for us, we have played all of Dockrell, Kartik and Suppiah, at times.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 16:37
We are back on in 10 mins.Reduced to 30 overs target 180 (I think) which is about 140 off 23 overs. We're stll in it. Wickets are the key

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
taung (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 16:45
Glad we have not got a lot of spinners with a wet ball.

Might reduce Murali's effectiveness.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 16:47
We will now find out what Meschede can do with his bowling.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 16:53
If it really is as high as 180 then I think that favours us?I guess that wicket just before the delay might have made a big difference to the calculation?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 17:01
Aruuuuul thw world record holder (In the t20)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 17:44
Murali 6 overs for 49? Not the performance we wanted.

Dropped Hamilton Browne on 0?

It isn't gonna happen guys. Too big a mountain to climb once again.

Though Jos has just run him out at the non strikers for 78 147 for 5 needing 39 off 46!! Too late? Well it's still a game isn't it but we don't seem to be able to come back from these in finals.



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
edinburghbil (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 17:58
Could have done with hitting the stumps a couple of times. Plenty of run out chances, bun only one success.
.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
taung (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:01
Four missed run outs. The luck is not with us.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:01
FTm strikes againsad smiley

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:07
I agree, we haven't enjoyed the best of luck with Suppiah wrongly adjudged lbw, but Kartik's woeful performance for a top overseas pro and the strange decision to bat first in dodgy weather, haven't helped at all.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:14
Just not good enough with the bat when it counts yet again. Has Brian and AH have both said before 'not mentally tough enough,' I'm afraid

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
WyvernRose (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:14
(Sm17)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:23
not good enough. I think its a myth that this strong batting line up. Put on the pressure and Jos apart they crumble.

Wouldnt ask Kartik back next year either. Looks like a man who doesnt want to be there to be honest.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
17/09/2011 18:25
Mental strength & Cricket Intelligence Do we have any ? Major Changes or relegation beckons in 4 day cricket I reckon.

Beyond Pathetic with the bat today, really awful, Hard to blame the bowlers again today nothing to play with but at least two of them were`nt very good either.

Lousy day and a certain team in red lost as well, they were poor defensively too including 2 OGs.

Things can only improve, but then we`ve been saying that for too long too.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:31
With Mertersacker around, I would not be too sure. Turning circle of an oil tanker.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
geoff_k (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:38
More often than not in sport repeated failures by a team to win silverware mean changes both in the coaching staff as well as the playing staff.

We appear to lack the killer instinct and seem almost afraid to win when it matters. Is there anyone who can change that from within the club (or from elsewhere) I wonder?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
17/09/2011 18:38
You`re right, for the first time, we may struggle to qualify for the CL next year. Issues to resolve and quickly but we`re lumbered for three months.

Oh well, Are we allowed to talk about this on this thread ? I think not, but we might get away with it.!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:39
QPR the team to watch in England....heard it here first.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
17/09/2011 18:42
Great start for them, that`s for sure, first day forgotten quickly, Have invested wisely and look like they will be OK.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
hantssabre (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:48
Boring boring football

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:50
like the gooners too WCG but they look medicore to me just now..why did wenger not get that cahill just for just a few extra bob.........AG is right is that Mertasacker right for English game?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
old boy! (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 18:54
We still have a record to be proud of.
We will try again next year, hopefully making full use of our
youngsters more. For those who say they haven't shown enough, lets use them for the first half of the season at least.

Signing so-called ready made 'stars' proves nothing and it doesn't guarantee success - it will be interesting to see how we cope in India, as long as Alfonso uses the young ones sensibly.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
17/09/2011 19:01
Message to Ronnie S,

Continued on other one thread as per the rules.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:04
defiant words Old Boy.difficult at this point, Im quite despondent, even more so the 2 finals this year we havent even been close really. THeres a real issue now about bottle based on what I saw today and I think there will be changes as a result. I know thats not what you want to here but I think there will.

I would play the youngsters too if Im honest now but CC1 is going to be tougher next year and it may be too much for them.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:16
I haven't been so despondent for a long time, so much so that I decided not to go to Lords. Last season we were generally excellent and the vibe was very good for this year. This season we have been so inconsistent and you almost know what the management comments are going to be before you read them.

For once, I am lost for ideas about how we can move forward and feel a change of management may be in order.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
taung (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:22
Thanks Somerset. Two great seasons and as always
vastly entertaining.

Just a bit more luck and we would have won a few.

Before the five wins 79-83 we came second five at least five times. What is the hurry (no pun etc..)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:28
Old Boy - With the youngsters, I don't think anyone is saying 'don't pick them again.' I think what a number of people would like to see is more competition for places, such that youngsters have to compete with proven players for places in the side. This year the young players were the only option available and so the only meaningful competition that they were subjected to was amongst themselves. Several youngsters each ended up playing 4 or 5 CC games each and it is probably the case that that was asking a little too much of some of them.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:30
the problem is taung last year we were the best side no problem. This year we kept going but not so dominant.

Next season, I fear others will be stronger and we either have to get stronger ourselves or falter.

Put simply....you have to win the trophies when you have the best side. My fear is we wont with this one now!!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:32
Like everybody else on this forum, I love our team. I've supported them through thick and thin for over 35 years. I've been there for the wins, the hard luck stories and the downright miserable times too. And there is still part of me that thinks getting so so close over the last 3 seasons and the consistency we've shown in all competitions is a fantastic achievement....

BUT

It's evident after today that something is still wrong. Maybe not alot. The talent is there. And let us not forget it took a brilliant ton by Ian Bell to beat us last year, that like-it-or-not Notts did win more CC matches than us and today we've gone down to a very, very decent Surrey side.

HOWEVER it's still a major disappointment and matter of concern to come 2nd 7 times in 3 seasons. We may one day look back at this era as a golden time for SCC..the oustanding batsman in county cricket, one of the world's best one day bowlers, a decent batting line up, some great youngsters like Joss..yet our trophy cabinet is BARE. But should it be?

I would like to think serious questions are now asked. Is our captain good enough as skipper or should we be bold and appoint JH for next season? When this week we've seen Peter Moores and Chris Adams coach their sides to silverware, is our backroom staff really good enough? Popular and good people yes..but winners? Has the overseas signing done enough to justfiy being asked back next year? I think we all know the answer to that one. Can we continue to afford to waste members money on signings like Mendis and to a lesser degree Pollard?

I feel this season..for whatever reason..we have gone backwards slightly and it's no use simply going into next season thinking everything will automatically be ok and we are just unlucky. The CC will be a tougher league next season with the 2 London sides promoted. Our CB40 draw is very, very tough. By the law of averages its going to be hard to reach another T20 final. Lets hope over the winter..while congratulating themselves for getting alot right this season and giving us plenty to enjoy..those in charge will not be complacent and try to look to find the solutions to what's gone wrong and why we've come 2nd 7 times and 1st 0.

No player wants to lose and I'm not for one minute getting on their backs. As I say, they've still given us alot to celebrate this year. Most counties would dream of 1 cup final, let alone 2 in a season. But we have to try and find the reasons for never quite crossing the line...

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:33
Just a quick note to say well done to Kirbs, who gave his all. I don't necessarily agree with his selection, but I can't fault his commitment.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:50
Realistically, of the 5 one-day finals, we can only truly say we were unlucky against Hants.

We were outplayed in the other four.

Naxxar - it is surely only six second places, rather than seven, as we were a distant fourth in this year's CC?

There seems to be a fairly strong anti-Kartik current on here at the moment. The suggestion seems to be that he has developed an attitude problem? Perhaps all those niggles have got on top of him?

I suppose we will probably now try to replace him as overseas pro, though it is surely probable that we will again have to employ a platoon arrangement as almost every worthwhile international cricketer - other than Pakistanis- will be playing in the cursed IPL.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
taung (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:55
Quote:
ronnies
the problem is taung last year we were the best side no problem. This year we kept going but not so dominant.Next season, I fear others will be stronger and we either have to get stronger ourselves or falter.Put simply....you have to win the trophies when you have the best side. My fear is we wont with this one now!!

Very true, last year was probably the best chance of glory. If only a couple of things had gone differently.

There will be changes, that is natural. I am so proud to have you write that we were the best team.

My problem is I am quite happy to come second. Totally wrong I agree in this era.

...it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat...etc..

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
rodders12 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 19:58
Just back to my sisters in London and some thoughts which you might not agree with.

In truth we batted very poorly, bowled rather poorly and fielded even worse.

Why is it that our top order still feel you need to hit a six every 12 / 13 balls in order to win a limited overs game of cricket. In truth Marcus, Craig and Peter gave their wickets away trying to score quick runs far to early.
James just played a totally@#$%&shot.

Well done to Jos who did everything right.

Seems to me we have a coaching problem - is not he the man who should sit them down and explain about building an innings even in limited overs cricket like Jos did. Or are the likes of Marcus, Craig, Peter and James thinking that AH can teach them nothing - in which case..........??

Bowling was sort of OK but again we were far more expensive than they were in terms of runs per over - as per every ..............oh forget it, I despair and sometimes wonder if the players really care. Sad to say ....................but there.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Big Jim (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 20:23
Bad luck.
There's always next year.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 20:30
[quote AGod]Realistically, of the 5 one-day finals, we can only truly say we were unlucky against Hants.

We were outplayed in the other four.

Naxxar - it is surely only six second places, rather than seven, as we were a distant fourth in this year's CC?



3 years ago we came 2nd in the 40 over competition when it was a league..we blew the final match at home to Durham..so its 7 runners up in 3 seasons!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 20:34
And I agree with Rodders btw..didn't the semi final prove you don't have to go crash, bang, wallop at the start to win a match. Arul could have opened again today to keep a big hitter lower down the order...

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
17/09/2011 20:53
Rodders 12,

Brilliant post, excellent analysis too.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
RobboG (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 21:06
just back, won't repeat what has been said, clearly a poor performance, etc.

a great turnout from the west country, outnumbering Surrey fans by a fair degree...and many in good voice until the result was clear...disappointed, but quietly proud to be a small part of it.

p.s.
though another poor attendance overall - can't blame it being a day-night game for this year's poor crowd - not sure why, but 40 over cricket doesn't seem to appeal to a live domestic audience

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 21:16
I think the club was disappointed for the semi-final at Taunton, they were expecting a sellout but a steward told me 4500.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
17/09/2011 21:26
Just read the front page, if Dockrell was available to play and it sounds like he was, Why on earth did`nt he ?? !!!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 21:40
Mike, I imagine that the inclement weather and our poor performances leading up to the game would have been a factor, couple with very few away supporters.

Many supporters may also have been put off due to experiencing problems with refunds during the disastrous T20 Taunton weather.

WCG, I agree there have been some strange selections, particularly with GD being replaced by SK for the T20 final

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
NW5Somerset (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 21:43
Nothing to say really apart from we have one of the best teams in the land and one of the best grounds in the land.

Bring on next season!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
litlekeithy (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 22:06
Just back in flat in london after watching the game

Agree with the criticisms of the batsmen, with the exception of Buttler who was superb, Arul who was unlucky and maybe Meschede who was deceived, the rest were poor with bad shot selection trying to hit it out the ground. Tresco again failed - he actually has a poor record in finals given his calibre.

Surrey didn't have to take any risks and on the whole batted sensibly.

I get the impression that other teams have sussed out our batting – prepare slow wickets and bowl slow and watch Somerset self-destruct.

I think we are beyond the point of "we will learn lessons" and "it is only a matter of time". It would be good to hear some self-criticism and see some implementation of how to plan an innings.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 22:28
Desperately disappointing result & a pretty poor effort all round apart from Jos.

We can't keep hiding behind 'bad luck'/'better than it was a few years ago'/'it's only a game' etc..

The plain fact is that we repeatedly bottle it when it really matters.

Most annoying thing of all is that it is not lack of talent that we have. Instead, it is a lack of self belief, of cohesion & application.

I don't know what to think of our prospects for 2012. They ought to be good, but in truth I presently feel trepidation.

To be honest, I hope we don't re-sign Kartik for next year. He has not delivered what we needed & today was very poor indeed. Similarly, I don't want to see KP back for one day duty - just not reliable enough.

Bowling looks pretty threadbare for next year & I hope BR has some good signings in his cupboard.

Batting will depend on application of talent, and probably at least one solid signing.

As for the Captaincy/Coach/Management, I regret wondering whether those roles can really all stay unchanged given our continuing soft underbelly.

Sorry chaps, but we do have issues to deal with & whilst we have come great distances in the last few years, we really don't want to be perennial bridesmaids.

....................... do we ?

Grizzzly

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
SillyMidOn (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 23:02
Not really much to add, desperately dissapointing.

I just hope we haven't blown our chances for a while. Last year we were by some distance the best team in country in all formats and had nothing to show for it. This year not so dominant, but still very good- and nothing to show for it. next year will be tougher still with Surrey back in D1, Jos likely to miss a big swathe of the summer with England, maybe CK too. Rumors of Arul departing also hint at a period of rebuilding perhaps.

You also have to worry that this "choking" (media word, not mine) becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.

I don't know really what can be done. Player wise i'd probably swap Murali for a batter next year, and play Dockrell in his place but that is tinkering around the edges. The real problem is mental, and I have no idea how you fix that.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Big Jim (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 23:14
I doubt if we'd have lost all these matches had Justin Langer been captain.
We may have lost some of them, but not all.
Marcus is a world class batsman, one of the best, but a skipper?
Still, better to be second than last.
I think.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 23:20
Quite surprised that you said that Jim, but in truth I suspect you may be pretty close to the mark.

I wasn't a fan of JL, certainly for his last season with us, but with the talent we have, can you imagine what we would achieve if we could only find some grit ?!

Grizzzly

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Scrumper (IP Logged)
17/09/2011 23:53
JL made a difference, hopefully Punter will get us over the finish line in 2012.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 06:15
I think Little Keithy is spot on. It's not worth management repeating 'we'll learn lessons,' guff because it's pretty obvious that this group of batsmen will not do so - they have not demonstrated a capacity for learning in one day cricket - this is evidenced by the fact that we do not seem to have shown any improvement in playing spin on slow surfaces - as shown by numerous poor performances in away games in such conditions this season.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
geoff_k (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 08:19
Although it as a one-off I was thinking of when Graeme Smith was here and the way he inspired a group of quite young players to great things.

Discounting SK who is always that way and of course Jos who was outstanding, the rest was silence.

Look at how Jade Dernbach was fired up and produced an excellent bowling performance for Surrey. I thought both Surrey and previously Leicestershire in the T20 final seemed to want to win more than we did.

I didn't see the recent County Championship games but my son did and he was upset by our lack of application.

I fear the future may not be good unless these matters are addressed.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 09:23
JL did get the best out of James Hildreth he kept faith with James one year when some of us said he should have been dropped.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
old boy! (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 09:41
Quote:
AGod
I think Little Keithy is spot on. It's not worth management repeating 'we'll learn lessons,' guff because it's pretty obvious that this group of batsmen will not do so - they have not demonstrated a capacity for learning in one day cricket - this is evidenced by the fact that we do not seem to have shown any improvement in playing spin on slow surfaces - as shown by numerous poor performances in away games in such conditions this season.

Sure some things are done better sometimes, but logically from what you say, in the short CB40 and T20, 16 teams in each competition got it more wrong than us, unless of course you think they were unlucky, while we were useless because we lost in the finals.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Wickham (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 10:31
Quite so, Old Boy.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 11:12
Quote:
AGod

Realistically, of the 5 one-day finals, we can only truly say we were unlucky against Hants.

We were outplayed in the other four.


Not so, AGod.

We lost the Twenty20 Final v. Hampshire last year simply because the players did not know the laws of the game. Personally, I don’t regard that as being “unlucky.”

OK - that is all 'water under the bridge' now, but I suspect that the players themselves may have been psychologically damaged by the manner in which they lost. I know that Marcus said shortly after that game that the moment would haunt him for a long time.

I have often wondered whether, had we won that piece of silverware, we would have had the inner strength and self - belief to succeed in some of the other 'near misses' that have since followed.

We shall never know of course.

However, when the team and officials return from India, I feel confident that there will be an extensive de - briefing of everyone at the club as to why the season’s results were as they were.

The Club officials will need to address this with Brian Rose, and no doubt Rose will do so likewise with the players and his coaching staff etc.

Then, let us hope that whatever is deemed necessary will be acted upon - be it Rose's role at the club, the coaching staff, captaincy, retention / recruitment of players, pitches etc.

Much work still to be done, I would hazard to suggest.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Norwich SCCC (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 11:52
Having not seen much of the game I am loath to comment too much but one thing does stand out. Why did we choose to bat first if rain was certain to disrupt the chase?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:02
That was my first thought, but apparently we had a game plan and didn't stick to it, so maybe batting first wasn't the plan?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:05
I wonder that myself, could it be because of Marcus's injury, if we had fielded first he may have damaged it while fielding and then he couldn't have had a runner while batting??

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:18
Quote:
old boy!
Quote:
AGod
I think Little Keithy is spot on. It's not worth management repeating 'we'll learn lessons,' guff because it's pretty obvious that this group of batsmen will not do so - they have not demonstrated a capacity for learning in one day cricket - this is evidenced by the fact that we do not seem to have shown any improvement in playing spin on slow surfaces - as shown by numerous poor performances in away games in such conditions this season.

Sure some things are done better sometimes, but logically from what you say, in the short CB40 and T20, 16 teams in each competition got it more wrong than us, unless of course you think they were unlucky, while we were useless because we lost in the finals.

No. I think we are extremely good in certain conditions - pricipally when we are playing on tracks with good pace - such as those at Taunton and some of the away tracks we encountered in T20, such as Chelmsford and Trent Bridge.

Put us on something slow, such as at Bristol or Bath or Southgate, however and we become a very ordinary one day side.

The other 17 counties? Most of them are not as good on any surface as we are on pacy ones.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:26
Clarence - in saying that we were unlucky vs Hants, I was not alluding to the finish so much as the Pollard injury - that was clearly bad luck.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:34
I'd personally put Steve Kirby in the list of those mentioned in dispatches from last night as well.

His utter refusal to go against Dernbach at the end was classic Kirby and his bowling was fiery and effective. Yeah 2 for 39 at 7 isn't wonderful ut it was from the heart and he did get the early wickets which was his job.

Jos was superb but Steve NEVER gave up and would have given his life for a win.



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:41
Kirby has been good for us this season. I hope his ex Glos mate can step up to the mark along side him next year.

He may have to!!!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 12:52
Well its what he's paid for.

I hope they give Gemaal a really effective winter of hard graft and he comes back leaner, fitter, hungrier and ready to be Kirbs understudy.



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 13:04
Yeah, for all the stick I've given Steve Kirby this season and I still believe he's not best suited to T20, I'd put him in my other teams every time, because he gives his all and that's all we can ask for.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Right Arm Over (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 16:29
Quote:
Botham
Yeah, for all the stick I've given Steve Kirby this season and I still believe he's not best suited to T20, I'd put him in my other teams every time, because he gives his all and that's all we can ask for.

Kirbs has done well for us this year. He effectively replaced Ben Phillips and I can't see why he warrants much criticism.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 16:47
I can see Botham's point in the sense that he fires early or late and in four overs that can work against him sometimes but even then he was doing a job wholeheartedly because Lewis and Alf were simply unfit for lumps of the T20 period.

He's certainly one of my candidates for Player of the Season and has far outstripped the expectations I had for him in 2011



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 16:56
Quote:
Right Arm Over
Quote:
Botham
Yeah, for all the stick I've given Steve Kirby this season and I still believe he's not best suited to T20, I'd put him in my other teams every time, because he gives his all and that's all we can ask for.

Kirbs has done well for us this year. He effectively replaced Ben Phillips and I can't see why he warrants much criticism.

I criticised his selection in T20, as I believe we need bowlers with plenty of control and variation, who are also pretty nimble in the field. Giving your all is what we'd expect from any player given the honour of wearing a Somerset shirt, but in the fast moving T20 we need guile.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 16:59
agree with your assessment oif where Hussain is and what he needs to do Grockle, but it begs the question of why he wasn't lean hungry and fit for this season.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 17:00
You criticise him in the field Botham... I can't think I've read many others doing this after the first month of the season.

T20 is not always a game for pace bowlers admittedly but I'd credit SK with more 'guile' than you do I think.

Anyway T20 is only one facet of the game....



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
swerve (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 17:08
Having returned from Lords and reflected on another shambolic performance, here are my thoughts regarding yesterday.

Warning for the 'Happy Campers' - please look away now.

1) Lets start at the very end - yeah, I know they were the victorious side, but I found in interesting how the Surrey players came right over to their fans in the Compton stand at the end to thank them for making the epic journey across the whole of London ! My team could only muster a half hearted above the head style clap, from the middle.

For a lot of fans, this was a 24 hour day, and best part of £100 spent. Makes me wonder whether they care ? Other posters have already alluded to this - I tend to agree.

2) The bizarre team huddle at the end ? What was that about ? Surely that should be a private moment - unless, and it would appear to obviously be the case, it was a show for the fans' sake ?
Totally misplaced in my view - unless it was Marcus advising the team that he has taken it as far as he can, and will be stepping down to give someone else ago. There, I've said it.

3) The batting - do you know, I really cannot be bothered to waste any of my time thinking about this - just like most of those did.

4) BR's comments about "having a plan, but the batsman not sticking to it". That says it all really, and sadly no idea how you "coach" them to do so.

5) The failure (yet again) for a professional, first-class cricket team to look at a surface / judge conditions AND SET A REASONABLE/DEFENDABLE SCORE !!
Why. of why, do they set off it the blind belief that they will get 320/340, and end up with 200/220 ??!!

6) Murali Kartik - good riddance really. Middlesex knew this. Really didn't look as though he cared. Dropped a crucial catch in the semi final - fortunately that one didn't end up hurting us. This one probably did !
Always gets out bowled by the opposition spinners.

7) Joss - hero again. Plain and simple. Better get used to playing a lot of next year without him. Lets hope we have a replacement ?

8) The 'in the hunt for 3 trophy thing' - I replied to a posters optimism / belief that this makes losing them ALL OK, a while back. To re-cap, I said in that post that "Leicestershire and 2 other teams will not be envying us at the end of the season". Just to confirm, for the records sake, that those 3 teams are Leicestershire, Lancashire and Surrey !

9) Next year - looking at the CB40 groups, on the plus side, we won't have to worry about losing in the final again next year !

10) Said it before and I'll say it again - we need Ponting (or possibly Smith as suggested above) to bring some spine to the team, and deal with that soft underbelly. I got various responses to my post on this - some quite dismissive of his abilities. Look at it from his perspective though - looking at our performances / bottle / spine / ability to learn / ability to adapt - why would he want to come here ?
Suggestions on the same postcard that you will all be sending to Marcus.

To confirm, these are my personal thoughts, as a fan who wants success. Yes, they are (just about) in the heat of the moment, but are just my opinion.

I so want to be looking on the positive side, and suggesting ways that things can be improved. But it's the BR comment above, and the astute posting earlier regarding our batsmen STILL not adapting to slow tracks / bowling attacks that really makes this difficult right now.

I am sorry if I upset others with these comments.

Now, for the 'happy campers' - you can come back into the room, and I'll finish by adding that when we win the Champions T20 league, this will make everything fine !

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Big Jim (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 17:30
Why spoil an otherwise excellent post with antagonism?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 17:40
You forgot to add to that (though I didn't see most of yesterday so I'm not sure whether it was the case) when we do work to a plan we work to it with no deviation at all whether it is working or not.

We are not an adapatable side it seems, we do not operate flexibily. Bowlers come on to bowl when they were planned to, batsmen play at the pace they were told to, the order remains the same even if things are going pear shaped. It's all a bit 'old school'.

I don't think your speculation about MT's position is a poor call. He must have thought about it after the second season of no success and a number of the same issues.

Can't agree about POnting being the man but that is simply a matter of opinion, most counties could do with someone to kick their players into gear most of the time.

Can't agree about them not caring... this last few sessions must have been deja vu for a lot of them and some of it has not been the fault of the county. Injuries and absences mucked up and slapped our side about a bit. A bit of time as a unit didn't seem an issue to me personally seeing as they are nearly straight on a plane to Hydrabad and another competition.

The radio said that they came straight out of that and went to the fans....

I'm not sure how I would have felt having been there again. Kinda glad I wasn't. I really am sick of seeing us get to finals and lose to teams because we simply don't turn up rather than because we were roundly beaten in a good contest we participated in.



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 18:05
Yes, I did criticise him in the field, as is my right so to do. I did then and still do feel that T20 is not his forte. Clearly every other poster can and may disagree, as is their right.

He's a big lad and isn't as nimble as some others IMHO.

Good to hear an honest appraisal from a new poster.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
old boy! (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 18:14
I assume that having just returned from a world cruise, since the spring with no access to TV or Radio, reading some of these posts, we must be bottom of the CC, CB40 and T20 -


oh NO -

we were 4th 2nd and 2nd!!!!

Well done lads - and that was with the world's best batsman not available for 20% of the season.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
rodders12 (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 18:15
Well said swerve ( 17.08 ) I could not have put it better myself - agree with every word !

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Railboy (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 18:24
As for the second year running i disconsolately trudged back to the Tube with my nephew, he asked "Why are we such a rubbish team?" I attempted to explain that we were a lot less rubbish than the other 16 clubs that did not reach the final in both years.
The logic of my argument was lost on him, but then he is only 10. Many posters on here do not have the same excuse.
No-one wants to get over that line more than me, and we may well have to make a few changes both in personnel and style to do that, but would some people prefer we don't get there at all?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
ronnies (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 18:43
I think a lot of it is out of sheer frustration

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Big Jim (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 19:15
That's beautiful, Railboy.
The past 24 hours has seen some of the finest postings in many a long year, quite moving.
How long till next season?
I can't wait.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
18/09/2011 19:15
Absolutely brilliant brilliant post swerve & 100 per cent right Wholeheartedly agree

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
geoff_k (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 19:16
There is certainly an element of frustration caused by the fact that a team full of extremely talented players cannot translate that talent into trophies.

I would definitely agree that many of the counties would love to be in our position. This is one of the most exciting Somerset teams to take the field in recent years.

So I suppose the frustration stems from the fact that we have the ability to achieve so much but keep falling short.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Brother Of (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 19:22
I would just like to say what fantastic support we had at Lords yesterday.
It was great to be in the Edrich Stand singing along to all the songs and getting behind the lads.
We simply got the basics wrong in the 1st 15 overs and Jos showed what could be done.
I know there's lots of of people saying certain players may leave etc but i remember being a fan 20 yrs ago when season's like this were a million miles away.
We will get there soon and i for one will be there to watch it happen.
Well done again on every "ciderhead" that made the trip to Lords and lets hope/pray that we get a trophy next season!!



TREGO FOR ENGLAND

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
BathintheThames (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 20:32
Quote:
Brother Of
It was great to be in the Edrich Stand singing along to all the songs and getting behind the lads.

It was indeed. The support was fantastic and some of those songs were genius.

A massive shame the performance didn't match the fans but i've no doubt the support wasn't lost on the players.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
WaresWurzel (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 21:09
And the sing song under the Edrich Stand during th rain break was a blast too drinking smiley



Wurz

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
swerve (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 21:32
There is no doubt that the team continue to have great support - but how long will that continue ?

Last year, there were 14 supporters coaches, this year only 9.

Couple that with the fact that the semi-final was poorly attended and it would appear that it will only be a matter of time until the poor performance / arrogant attitude of the players hit the club the hardest.

At the end of the day, we as fans can say anything we want within this forum, but ultimately is the £££'s that do the real talking.

Remember, its the £££'s we need to begin to address some of the glaring problems.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
wsm fan (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 21:46
I think you raise an interesting point.

I think the attitude and mentality of our supporters is a bigger issue than that of the players.

We have been spoilt for the past few years winning a huge % of our games, all be it not the crucial ones at the end of the season.
As such i think the tolerance levels of defeat from lots of our supporters is now very low.
This may soon effect the levels of support in the near future.
We have reached the last 5 domestic one day finals, yet we seem to have a huge amount of unhappy supporters demanding sweeping changes.
If this turns into non attendance at games due to the perceived lack of talent/bottle/nerve then yes it will definitely have a £££ effect on the club.

If every club was only well supported when it won trophies then 15 counties every season would struggle badly (this i suggest is the case at many far less successfull counties already!?)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
nelliec (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 21:57
We went up on the train which was not a viable choice last year because of the late start.There were 3 to 4 hundred supporters on the 8.19 to Paddington,and apparently just as many on the 2 previous trains, so probable reason for less coaches. I would have said probably 5000 more in the ground than last year, although the logistics for Surrey supporters provided half the extra attendance



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:18:21:59:55 by nelliec.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 22:43
My Surrey-supporting friend (who went to the final and told me this morning there were masses more Som than Surrey fans there; our areas were much busier - and noisier - than theirs; and that even the Grandstand, allegedly neutral, was clearly Somerset-biassed) said that Surrey initially told their general "supporters" that the tickets would be members-only and advised non-members to get tickets from Lord's. Then, a few days before the final, when most had done as told and got theirs from Lord's, Surrey announced that the members hadn't taken up their allocation and made them generally available.

I hadn't previously heard of the "arrogant attitude of the players" you mention, swerve. With the introduction of the well-received (on Grockles) Compo's Clips, I'd got the impression from afar that player/spectator relations were pretty good - do you have chapter and verse that says different?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
18/09/2011 23:17
During the week leading up to yesterday's final, I had conversations with four local Somerset members about their perceived outcome of the game.

One of them had seen every day of every CB 40 and every County Championship match played at Taunton this year - what a supporter.

He went to Lord's yesterday, but told me on Friday (as previously had the other three to whom I talked) that he thought that Somerset would lose.

I have to say that I shared their pessimistic attitude concerning the result of yet another one - day final.

I am not going to say that our forecasts were typical, but there is a growing lack of confidence, amongst some members and supporters, in our team's ability to win some silverware.

They believe that something is wrong within the club, and I know that they are heartily sick of paying out their hard - earned money to follow and support their club on the big occasions. One is probably talking about £100 each for the cost of ticket, transport, food, drink, programme etc.

I am not surprised that support would appear to be down, for the final is not the showpiece of the county cricket calendar that it once was.

That is a great disappointment also.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 04:34
Well it's not surprising really CP. It followed the trend of the last four Finals...pretty decent bet on that basis.

Have to agree with you Ron about frustration. As long as people keep their levels within manageable limits I'm sure there'll be lively debate over the winter and possibily even some surprises for all of us.

Somerset aren't a poor side (though they can be) and they aren't a great side (though once again they can be). There are things that need sorting and things that should be left well alone. They are consistently inconsistent and have been for as long as I've been watching them and to some extent that makes most games exciting and frustrating in equal measure.

The thing that possibly needs avoiding to keep discussions lively are the perceptions that someone's view of the county is the correct one and brooks no argument from 'the other side' (whichever that may be).

I personally know of very few on here who have 'blind loyalty' or 'blind pessimism' though there are those who can wallow in either.

This year turned into the 'developmental'season some predicted it may be and we all need to see how things develop before the start of 2012.

Interesting times. At least it is never dull.



(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:19:07:40:53 by Grockle.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
barndoorio (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 11:11
Agree with nearly all the positive comments about teh fans, but I could have done without the homophobic chants towards Davies and Rory Hamilton-Brown. It demeans us as a club.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Big Jim (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 11:20
That's incredibly sad to hear, I'd have either reported those responsible or left the ground.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
old boy! (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 11:21
BR's quotes in WDP today blaming the players is only part of the story really.

The successful cricket bosses {presumably, but not exclusively, those who have won something} always happily lap up the praise heaped on them in victory, but very freqently heap the dirt on the chosen players when things go wrong.

My point - who chose the team? - interestingly the 'young players' who saw us through in the semi were not considered worthy enough. One obvious mistake was to overestimate Murali's usefullness. This season as a bowler his performance would have justified non-selection with any other bowler.

Nevertheless, I still think that we have an excellent season.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 11:27
on the Kartik point why are we even bothering to talk to him? Surely his performances with the ball are not enough to warrant a new contract. I think he took about 6/7 more first class wickets from the same number of games as Hussain and he is being viewed as being disappointing.

Kartik's body language to me also states a bit lack of enthusiasm as well but they may be the fact he has played constantly, needs a break etc.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 12:09
I'm personally not disappointed with Gemaal. I've only really had about half a season to watch and even though I don't accept this "Second division, different ball, bowler friendly Bristol" gubbings. I expected the start to be tentative and the learning curve to be steep.

I would be a little more disappointed had he still been producing stuff at the end of a full season that he was at the start but that isn't the way it went. His bowling in the last games was irrelavant based on the lay off and the injury situation.

I expect to see a different, harder, sharper more switched on player at the start of 2012 after a very hard winter (they need to work him possibly harder than he has ever been worked before) and I am moderately optimistic about the future for the man. Inch Allah!



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 12:26
Re: this bit about the plan for Lord's;

I inferred from Brian's comments that he had asked the batsman to play sensibly and conserve wickets ?

As we know, they made no conspicuous attempt to do so!

Does this suggest a problem of the 'batsmen simply don't think that Brian's plans hold water,' variety? Is there a fundamental philosophical difference of opinion between the batsmen and Brian as to how to approach one-day cricket?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Bagpuss (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 12:49
Quote:
Naxxar
3 years ago we came 2nd in the 40 over competition when it was a league..we blew the final match at home to Durham..so its 7 runners up in 3 seasons!

Wonder who was captain when we failed to get over tha line and win a trophy that day?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Railboy (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 12:58
Shirley if that was the game plan (and i have no gripes about it) it is better to have batsmen more suited to preserving their wicket at the top of the order whilst keeping those more disposed to clubbing it for later. We seemed set up for our usual blitzcreig in the power play followed by steady consolidation. If that was not the plan it smacks more of poor planning rather than weak implementation.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 13:22
Well the thing is, Bagpuss, that the captain to whom you refer had become a liability himself with the bat in short form cricket, by then. This probably disadvantaged him as captain more than anything!?

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 13:27
What is the difference in the duties of a football and cricket manager?

The reason I ask I know nothing about football and I hear of football managers taking the blame for bad results do they have more responsibility?

.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Railboy (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 14:39
Afootball captain does little more than toss the coin and gee up the players on the pitch. All the decisions of substance are made by the manager, they even stand on the side bellowing instructions as the game proceeds. They are very publicly in charge and thus cannot hide when things go awry.
Traditionaly all the strategic decisions in cricket were made by the captain and any advice he may have saught would have come from on the field.The manager of old would have done little more than booking the hotel rooms and sweet talking the proprietor if the boys were too rowdy. In the modern game though, this has changed though not to the extreme of football. Selections, game plans etc are now much more of a calaboration between captain, coach and manager (I think we are unusual in having such a hands on manager, probably due to having a coach with such limited cricket experience). The captain is still in total charge on the pitch, i suspect the authorities would take a dim view of a manager/ coach yelling from the balcony Fergusson style, but i am sure each break a conference takes place and i suspect instructions come out with each drinks bottle etc.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 14:47
Quote:
Ronniesabre
on the Kartik point why are we even bothering to talk to him? Surely his performances with the ball are not enough to warrant a new contract. I think he took about 6/7 more first class wickets from the same number of games as Hussain and he is being viewed as being disappointing.
Kartik's body language to me also states a bit lack of enthusiasm as well but they may be the fact he has played constantly, needs a break etc.

I have it on good authority he was approached by Surrey 2 months ago offering alot more money than we are paying him and will probably play for them next season

We should look elsewhere anyway. We have a history of holding on to overseas players a year or so longer than we should. Most tend to peak in their first season before the rigours of playing all year round take their toll.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 14:52
Quote:
Railboy
Shirley if that was the game plan (and i have no gripes about it) it is better to have batsmen more suited to preserving their wicket at the top of the order whilst keeping those more disposed to clubbing it for later. We seemed set up for our usual blitzcreig in the power play followed by steady consolidation. If that was not the plan it smacks more of poor planning rather than weak implementation.

Exactly! Lessons were not learnt from the semi final. It would have made sense to have Arul opening, Craig maybe at 3 and Pete pushed down the order..or vice versia..so there was a big hitter to come in along with Jos nearer the end. Instead we packed the top order, went for the crash bang wallop approach and never recovered.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 14:58
Quote:
Grockle
I'm personally not disappointed with Gemaal. I've only really had about half a season to watch and even though I don't accept this "Second division, different ball, bowler friendly Bristol" gubbings. I expected the start to be tentative and the learning curve to be steep.
I would be a little more disappointed had he still been producing stuff at the end of a full season that he was at the start but that isn't the way it went. His bowling in the last games was irrelavant based on the lay off and the injury situation.

I expect to see a different, harder, sharper more switched on player at the start of 2012 after a very hard winter (they need to work him possibly harder than he has ever been worked before) and I am moderately optimistic about the future for the man. Inch Allah!


He undoubtedly has promise..as was witnessed by his excellent bowling at home to Worcs..but so far he has proved a disappointing signing. He is too expensive, he doesn't add much with his batting and his fielding is a liability. He looked totally lacking in confidence in the Lancs game. There is still much hard work to be done and the coaching staff don't seem to have succeeded yet. Oh sorry we don't have a bowling coach do we!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 15:13
thanks Naxxar. If you are correct this would tie in with the period (around July) when Kartik stated he was undecided about whether he would sign another deal and would wait until the end of the season as he was playing all year round, wife not happy about constantly travelling etc. etc. That would stack up with what you say.

What he really meant is Im not signing as Ive been made a better offer and Im gonna take that so Im offski.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Botham (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 16:47
The overseas players I like are the ones that come out and say how much they enjoy / enjoyed playing and living in Somerset, rather than those who's first thought is how much money can I get!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 16:47
Well on a third of a season Naxxar that's quite a damning asessment of a bowler coming to a new county and settling in who was on a par (in fact slightly ahead of) the young prospect (can't remember his name now) many were punting for Somerset to sign to replace him.

I think personally I'll give him a season's worth of games before I write him off but the faults he had in his first games are certainly going to have to disappear by the start of next season for him to be a long term prospect.



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 16:53
have to say that I too am willing to give Gemmal the time to come back. Put simply we need him to come good.

At least he knows what the 1st divsion and playing at Taunton is all about now and what he has to do to ensure he can cope and deal with it.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 17:50
Big, hard off season for the guy. As you say Ron there's a whole lot riding on it.



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Monkey Butler (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 18:07
Shame to hear about the Homophobic chanting, I was in stand that contained only a handful of Somerset fans and had good fun exchanging good banter with Surrey fans, something you can't do at football matches.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
litlekeithy (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 20:30
you right Monkey Butler, it is sad and should be dealt with. Davies is a more courageous man than those abusing him from the safety of a stand.

On a cricketing note, I note that Arul, according to WDP, has signed a contract so that rumour can be squashed.

On the game plan argument. For all his brilliance, I think Tresco has to take some of the blame. He is the most talented and senior of the batsman and should be playing innings like Richards of old ie set out to score a century and be MoM – shouldn't even be doubted.

But his one day final form is very poor. I don't think there has been a score above 50 if you go back to 1999 and the glos game. If he plays a stupid shot and is out early then it seems the others become unsettled and follow suit.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Norwich SCCC (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 20:47
I agree Litlekeithy regarding Tres. His record in finals is very disappointing - no big scores and often out to an irresponsible early shot.

I can't imagine the great IVA being stumped after only 5 overs and he certainly thrived on the big occasion.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
19/09/2011 20:50
On the other site Andy Hurry says that the India trip gives an opportunity to learn from the experience of Lord's. What can be learnt if senior players will not follow the game plan and try to hit the ball out of the ground regardless of the quality of the delivery? Is this due to over enlarged ego or simply lack of intelligence?

IMO the senior players should be made to sit down and watch an endless loop of Jos Buttler's innings at Lords. That young man must feel very let down by his team mates

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grizzzly (IP Logged)
19/09/2011 20:59
I tend to the view that our major problem is in the collective team head.

It's not talent we lack, it's application & the ability to hold our nerve.

Let's face it, if we had actually turned up for even some of the various finals across the last few years, we would be drinking wine from plenty of fine silverware !

Mark Ramprakash & Graeme Hick could never adequately convert talent to International level & it seems we are collectively unable to do the same when the finish line comes near.

Hope it can be remedied next year, but I do think changes are needed & we need to let some of our 'talent' go - MK for one.

Grizzzly

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Grockle (IP Logged)
20/09/2011 04:22
Well one would have thought that any lessons they needed to learn Tony would have been learned the last time we were in this tournament when we came off losses in other finals.

I agree with you about the assessment of international signings Botham. Good job then that we have had the first type for the last decade and very few (if any) of the ones just in it for the money aye?



(Sm72)

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
20/09/2011 11:46
There seem to be a lot of references above to a lack of commitment on the part of Kartik. Could it not simply be that he is no longer as good a bowler as he was? All players reach their respective peaks but 99% of them continue to play after their decline starts.

I mention this because my impression of Kartik's spirited batting in the latter part of the season indicated (in my opinion) no lack of commitment to Somerset's cause.



LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
old boy! (IP Logged)
20/09/2011 11:54
LoL

Oh thou of instant wisdom!!!! Just what I have been saying.
As far as his bowling is concerned the heart is willing but the flesh is (Sm103) (Sm148) weak!!!!!

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Naxxar (IP Logged)
20/09/2011 17:04
Quote:
Grockle
Well on a third of a season Naxxar that's quite a damning asessment of a bowler coming to a new county and settling in who was on a par (in fact slightly ahead of) the young prospect (can't remember his name now) many were punting for Somerset to sign to replace him.
I think personally I'll give him a season's worth of games before I write him off but the faults he had in his first games are certainly going to have to disappear by the start of next season for him to be a long term prospect.


Its not a damning assessment at all..its a fair summation of his Somerset career so far. In no way does it write him off. It states he has promise but so far has not delivered what we hoped. He is on a fairly decent wage packet. This season we could afford for him to be on a learning curve once Alf came back but next season the demands on our bowlers to perform might be greater if Willo leaves. There is not a pot of gold to significantly strengthen our squad for 2012 though we'd all like a few good new signings. So it should be a big year ahead for Gemaal. I've seen enough to know he can succeed...lets hope he will.

 
Re: How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
AGod (IP Logged)
21/09/2011 09:50
I don't really understand why it is that he seems to be able to bowl accurately for three or four overs - and then starts bowling loosely?

Normally, if a bowler is a scattergun, they are the kind of guy who reliably serves up one four ball at least every other over and that's their modus operandi.

But I've seen Hussain bowl 18 or 24 pretty accurate balls to open a spell... and then bowl 12 or 18 balls that include 4 or so four balls! And I've seen him do that on two separate occasions. Is it a fitness and stamina issue? Or is it more a matter of concentration? I hope it's the former as that should be easier to fix?

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