Somerset
Revenge in Brum? Day 1 CC1
Jos looking for runs
By Grockle
June 20 2011
A blast of four day in the midst of the June/July slogfest finds us at Edgbaston looking to 'lance the boil' of the first match of the season and that horrendous and historic defeat at the hands of the Brummies. Brian has sent Jos to the seconds to try and get some runs with the bat and we may lose Craig halfway through if he is called into the ODI squad (which means Jos will probably return). The weather may also have a say.
V Warwickshire CC1 @ Edgbaston Monday 20 June 2011
Commentary (BBC Coventry and Warwickshire)
After no real cricket for a fortnight (some would say none since the start of the T20) we go into a four day game possibly unprepared. The T20 format does not exactly encourage sensible batting and the formation of an innings and some of our Championship bowlers have not bowled a ball in real anger since the end of May.
Add to that a couple of injuries/form issues and possible international callups halfway through the game and this is an 'interesting' fixture which has some aspects in common with the fateful first game of this season when we failed to "come to the races" quite spectacularly and were hammered by an inning and 300 odd runs.
Marcus Trescothick a man in form goes into this game without Alfonso Thomas who may miss all of the T20 group fixtures due to a severe strain. Jos Buttler has struggled to find his form this season and is therefore off to have a bit of a hit with the seconds - though he is probably the named replacement for Craig Kieswetter who will start this game but is expected to be named in the England ODI squad during the game and will have to leave prematurely. Lewis Gregory has recovered from his adverse reaction to a wasp sting and will probably return as will Charl Willoughby who does not feature in our T20 squad.
Today's team therefore will probably be;
Trescothick, Suppiah, Compton, Hildreth, Kieswetter, Trego, Gregory, Kartik, Hussain, Kirby, Willoughby
The weather is probably going to be changeable but at present it is expected that the game will start on time.
Somerset won the toss and have elected to bat with the side as listed above. The openers get off to a decent start and hit 3.5 an over for the first 10 after which the Boss takes his personal score to over 1000 first class runs (the first to do this in 2011) just before the 50 comes up for us in the 13th.
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
StumbleuponRevenge in Brum? Day 1 CC1
Discussion started by Grockles.com , 20/06/2011 10:52
Grockles.com
20/06/2011 10:52
20/06/2011 10:52
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:24:10:54:06 by Grockle.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:24:10:54:06 by Grockle.
Big toss dilemma.
Track has often been a bunsen.. see, for example, the Warks v Lancs game from earlier this season.
With Kartik in our side and nobody of note in theirs, they will presumably try to avoid that kind of track? Then again, it's unclear why they thought they'd beat Lancs earlier this season on such a track? Therefore, there may be issues outside the groundsman's control leading to such Bunsen's?
In addition, there's been an awful lot of wet stuff around..
... But, do we want to bat last if Craig K might be taken from us?
BIG dilemma, IMO.
Track has often been a bunsen.. see, for example, the Warks v Lancs game from earlier this season.
With Kartik in our side and nobody of note in theirs, they will presumably try to avoid that kind of track? Then again, it's unclear why they thought they'd beat Lancs earlier this season on such a track? Therefore, there may be issues outside the groundsman's control leading to such Bunsen's?
In addition, there's been an awful lot of wet stuff around..
... But, do we want to bat last if Craig K might be taken from us?
BIG dilemma, IMO.
Proper cricket returns, and revenge required.
Buttler dropped to get some runs with the 2s; Lewis Gregory replaces him. Looks like:
Tres, Suppiah, Compton, Hildreth, Kieswetter, Trego, Gregory, Kartik, Hussain, Kirby, Willo, with Dibble 12th man.
If Craig called up for ODI squad, Buttler will be able to replace him. If anyone else called up as well, I guess Dibble would take his place. I don't know how long a list of potential subs you have to provide at the toss!
Buttler dropped to get some runs with the 2s; Lewis Gregory replaces him. Looks like:
Tres, Suppiah, Compton, Hildreth, Kieswetter, Trego, Gregory, Kartik, Hussain, Kirby, Willo, with Dibble 12th man.
If Craig called up for ODI squad, Buttler will be able to replace him. If anyone else called up as well, I guess Dibble would take his place. I don't know how long a list of potential subs you have to provide at the toss!
I do hope the team has played some form of cricket amongst themselves, we haven't played a competitive match for two weeks.
Awful news about Alf - out for three to five weeks - a big blow
Plenty of rain about, obviously, and that may have had a hand in some of the rubbish scores made so far in this round of games, but would not be surprised if there have been a load of T20 dumbslogs played in these other CC games -- a trap we must avoid falling into
With the England ODI situation, I wonder if we will feel that we must bat first if we win the toss?
Otherwise we might be a little light on the batting side of things if Craig is called away
Plenty of rain about, obviously, and that may have had a hand in some of the rubbish scores made so far in this round of games, but would not be surprised if there have been a load of T20 dumbslogs played in these other CC games -- a trap we must avoid falling into
With the England ODI situation, I wonder if we will feel that we must bat first if we win the toss?
Otherwise we might be a little light on the batting side of things if Craig is called away
I see that Warwickshire lost today in the 20/20 against Lancashire having been bowled out for 109 in 19.2 overs.
lets hope they maintain similar form over the next 4 days.
lets hope they maintain similar form over the next 4 days.
Team looks like it will be (according to the other site): M.Trescothick, A.Suppiah, N.Compton, J.Hildreth, C.Kieswetter, L.Gregory, P.Trego, G.Hussain, M.Kartik, S.Kirby, C.Willoughby
I think we're a batsman light, Barrow not there, Buttler dropped, we sure miss Zander.
I think we're a batsman light, Barrow not there, Buttler dropped, we sure miss Zander.
I agree with chosen team.
Huge Jos fan but agree time in 2nd's may be appropriate.
Tail is a bit long but we need to bowl them out twice so have to trust the top 5 plus Tregs and Lewis to do the bulk of the batting.
Forecast looking much improved so good chance of full days play on mon+tue
Huge Jos fan but agree time in 2nd's may be appropriate.
Tail is a bit long but we need to bowl them out twice so have to trust the top 5 plus Tregs and Lewis to do the bulk of the batting.
Forecast looking much improved so good chance of full days play on mon+tue
On balance, I think I would have preferred them to give Alex Barrow another chance if they were not going to play Jos.
Based on the side they have picked, they are probably counting on Lewis doing with the bat what they have told us he is capable (or will become capable) of doing.
If they really wanted to make sure Lewis played again, I'd have played him instead of Hussain, making Lewis the second change pace bowler and Pete the first change, but bearing in mind that a large number of old-ball overs are likely to be handled by Kartik unless the pitch is particularly verdant.
From the side that they have picked, we're looking at Lewis effectively being promoted to number seven, despite having not yet really fired at number eight. In other words, the side again looks a bit unbalanced with a pretty short batting line-up. What's more Edgbaston has tended to give lots of help to bowlers over the past season and a half and been a tough batting track. In other words, you probably don't need a lot of specialist bowlers to bowl a team out on that track, but you can really use batting depth.
Realistically, I think we've left ourselves a bit short by not engaging an extra experienced batsmen in lieu of Zander. In the long-term, if Lewis and Craig M develop as the club would hope, I think we will have a much better balanced side as we would then be able to call on three bona-fide all-rounders .... Pete, Lewis and Craig M.
At the moment, I'd say Pete is really our only true all-rounder, in the sense of being good enough to win a place as either a batsman or a bowler. Otherwise, we have a batsman that bowls in Arul and a couple of bowlers that can bat, in Alf and Kartik.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:09:40:19 by AGod.
Based on the side they have picked, they are probably counting on Lewis doing with the bat what they have told us he is capable (or will become capable) of doing.
If they really wanted to make sure Lewis played again, I'd have played him instead of Hussain, making Lewis the second change pace bowler and Pete the first change, but bearing in mind that a large number of old-ball overs are likely to be handled by Kartik unless the pitch is particularly verdant.
From the side that they have picked, we're looking at Lewis effectively being promoted to number seven, despite having not yet really fired at number eight. In other words, the side again looks a bit unbalanced with a pretty short batting line-up. What's more Edgbaston has tended to give lots of help to bowlers over the past season and a half and been a tough batting track. In other words, you probably don't need a lot of specialist bowlers to bowl a team out on that track, but you can really use batting depth.
Realistically, I think we've left ourselves a bit short by not engaging an extra experienced batsmen in lieu of Zander. In the long-term, if Lewis and Craig M develop as the club would hope, I think we will have a much better balanced side as we would then be able to call on three bona-fide all-rounders .... Pete, Lewis and Craig M.
At the moment, I'd say Pete is really our only true all-rounder, in the sense of being good enough to win a place as either a batsman or a bowler. Otherwise, we have a batsman that bowls in Arul and a couple of bowlers that can bat, in Alf and Kartik.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:09:40:19 by AGod.
Not quite fRed though it did seem daft to have two threads on the same game. I just merged 'em in order sorry guys.
What do I think!
I think it is a good assessment on the match, as I mentioned I am concerned with the lack of any cricket played in the last two weeks, I keep remembering what was said after our first t20 match.
Think positive Mike. Ok.
I think it is a good assessment on the match, as I mentioned I am concerned with the lack of any cricket played in the last two weeks, I keep remembering what was said after our first t20 match.
Think positive Mike. Ok.
Commentary on BBC website .Won toss and Bat 4-0[news.bbc.co.uk]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:11:05:56 by nelliec.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:11:05:56 by nelliec.
Quote:The link. [news.bbc.co.uk]nelliec
Commentary on BBC website .Won toss and Bat 4-0[news.bbc.co.uk]
Yep found it and linked it to the frontpage. The links weren't updated on the BBC page until the flaming game had started - they were showing Sunday's matches until 10:50!!
Quote:nelliec
Commentary on BBC website .Won toss and Bat 4-0[news.bbc.co.uk]
Somerset batting?
Commentators suggesting a flat-track but then there have been many occasions on which a pitch has looked rather flat when folks are bowling to Lord Tresco. We'll be able to judge better when others bat on it.
And as I type, a delivery from Woakes to Suppiah sounds like it may have misbehaved a little.
And as I type, a delivery from Woakes to Suppiah sounds like it may have misbehaved a little.
Banger has his thousand first class for the season. Well done that man.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:11:50:22 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:11:50:22 by Grockle.
And then got himself out.
More worryingly, they say Marcus is still flexing a hand that took a blow from Rankin. The only encouraging thing about that is the fact that that ball apparently leapt off a length, suggesting, perhaps, that this track is going to prove as capricious as many of the others at Edgbaston over the past 18 months or so. That would be encouraging because at least we already have runs in the bank.
More worryingly, they say Marcus is still flexing a hand that took a blow from Rankin. The only encouraging thing about that is the fact that that ball apparently leapt off a length, suggesting, perhaps, that this track is going to prove as capricious as many of the others at Edgbaston over the past 18 months or so. That would be encouraging because at least we already have runs in the bank.
Mixed feelings over a wicket for Chris Metters with his first ball. Pleased that a lad from South Devon CC is doing well and unhappy that Compo has gone just before lunch.
Still... at least my 'feelings' for cricket have returned with the resumption of the CC!
Still... at least my 'feelings' for cricket have returned with the resumption of the CC!
And now a big lbw appeal against Marcus from one that kept really low. Sounds like the effect of the roller may be wearing off and this might look like a different game this afternoon in terms of batting difficulty and, indeed, for the rest of this match....
Was that a sensible shot to play from Compton being that it was the first ball from the bowler?
I suspect the word might have gone around the circuit that this Metters guy is meat and drink for any half-decent batsman. I remember there being a story during the Durham-Warks game that IDB had said overnight after one day of that game that he "could not wait to face this guy." I think the Durham top order had faced him on that day and then IDB was due in to face him the next day. Evidently, IDB was not impressed with him, having watched him from the pavilion.
Perhaps Compton had heard the same talk and thought he'd try taking an immediate liberty?
Perhaps Compton had heard the same talk and thought he'd try taking an immediate liberty?
Oh dear... short batting line-up might prove a problem fairly shortly, with Hildreth now gone for a poor score. Season not going to plan, at all, for him.
Folding like a cheap suit by the sounds of it.. getting hussled out by Boyd Rankin.
And we're already down to our last parternship for which there are serious grounds for confidence that it may last some time and lead to a decent number of runs.
edit: the commentators are claiming that Gregory is coming out ahead of Pete?
Where's the sense in that?
And we're already down to our last parternship for which there are serious grounds for confidence that it may last some time and lead to a decent number of runs.
edit: the commentators are claiming that Gregory is coming out ahead of Pete?
Where's the sense in that?
don't work yourself up into a lather just yet Agod, it can't be good for you.
Be lucky to scrape to 200 now that Marcus has gone.
At least this one is not likely to be a draw, now, despite the poor forecast for the final day.
Pete might as well hit out, IMO.
At least this one is not likely to be a draw, now, despite the poor forecast for the final day.
Pete might as well hit out, IMO.
It sounds like this pitch is full of bounce - at least when Rankin is bowling. Tall man and has pace but sounds like he's causing a lot of problems... hopefully means the surface is poor.
Well we've 'barely made' 214 now. Lewis finally showing the potential.
Kent finally bowled out too, 92 last wicket partnership - you couldn't make that up.
Kent finally bowled out too, 92 last wicket partnership - you couldn't make that up.
Quote:AGod
Be lucky to scrape to 200 now that Marcus has gone.
At least this one is not likely to be a draw, now, despite the poor forecast for the final day.
Pete might as well hit out, IMO.
How's Pete dOing AGOD.
Pete's doing fine, by the sounds of it. Don't remember saying he wouldn't do, though thought he might get stranded once again.
It's been a very good recovery thus far as sounded like we were about to get shot out when the wickets were clattering down - especially when Marcus went.
Sounds a surface where there's plenty there for a tall quick but, thus far, not necessarily that much there for other types of bowlers. Does not sound as though full balls from the seamers have achieved all that much.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:15:38:54 by AGod.
It's been a very good recovery thus far as sounded like we were about to get shot out when the wickets were clattering down - especially when Marcus went.
Sounds a surface where there's plenty there for a tall quick but, thus far, not necessarily that much there for other types of bowlers. Does not sound as though full balls from the seamers have achieved all that much.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:15:38:54 by AGod.
LG yorked by Clarke. Unlucky to miss his first half-century - but congratulations to him on what the commentators have described as a good knock (which has almost exactly doubled his tally of first-class runs).
Yes, what's more they were urgently needed runs, as opposed to runs in a dead-rubber or made from a platform of 500 for 5.
But Kartik's just gone as well... so now Pete really will need to hit out!
But Kartik's just gone as well... so now Pete really will need to hit out!
Well, we've got one of them. Three lusty blows from Pete could net us a second. A third would be the stuff that dreams are made of, from here.
You were right, Tumbles... Kirby out to wild shot, by the sounds of it. And only Charl to come... so unless they bowl wide of the stumps on each ball, Pete won't face another one.
I have a feeling there is something in this pitch.
Lets get the inspector calling tomorrow, five wicket before close of play.
.
Lets get the inspector calling tomorrow, five wicket before close of play.
.
Another poor day, I`m afraid, Definitely paying the price for not strenghening in the winter.
Another poor day, I`m afraid, Definitely paying for the lack of winter strengthening.
Kirby still bowling at 6 an over. Is Gregory injured? Or even Suppiah. He might slow them down like Kartik. It looks as if our side is in a hell of a mess.
Chopra loves our bowlers, and it looks as though Westwood has decided to put bat to ball now that he is back in the team - been watching Tres I expect.
Chopra loves our bowlers, and it looks as though Westwood has decided to put bat to ball now that he is back in the team - been watching Tres I expect.
West Country Gooner
I don't think it is lack of winter strenghtening - I think it is lack of faith in the youngsters we have been bringing along. The young west country spinner did well for Warwickshire - how do we know if our youngsters wouldn't have blossomed?
Believe me, most of them will have flown to better parts if they don't get a chance this season.
I don't think it is lack of winter strenghtening - I think it is lack of faith in the youngsters we have been bringing along. The young west country spinner did well for Warwickshire - how do we know if our youngsters wouldn't have blossomed?
Believe me, most of them will have flown to better parts if they don't get a chance this season.
A microcosm of our failings this season - too many batting collapses and too many poor starts with the new ball when we bowl. It sounded like we got nothing like the amount out of the track that Rankin did.
Bowl Kartik all day tomorrow.
Bowl Kartik all day tomorrow.
Brian Rose absolutely disgusted with today's appalling performance - mentally weak batting - relegation standard according to Brian.
They sounded rusty (no pun intended) except Marcus and LG best first team score.
Edit - sorry bo I should have added Pete Trego in the above.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:20:19:07 by Mike BOS.
Edit - sorry bo I should have added Pete Trego in the above.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:20:19:07 by Mike BOS.
And Pete
Brian has single out the middle order for largely poor displays this season, saying that they have played well 'only occasionally,' and laying the blame for us not being at or near the top largely at their door
There really is a MASSIVE dependence on Marcus - at present you have to say that, if and when he hits a trough, we would find ourselves knee deep in the brown stuff with the bat
Of course one problem may very well be that our batsmen face zero competition for places that does not come from men with little or no first team experience
If we have any spare money at all, then I'd have thought Brian would look to add an extra batsmen in the winter?
Brian has single out the middle order for largely poor displays this season, saying that they have played well 'only occasionally,' and laying the blame for us not being at or near the top largely at their door
There really is a MASSIVE dependence on Marcus - at present you have to say that, if and when he hits a trough, we would find ourselves knee deep in the brown stuff with the bat
Of course one problem may very well be that our batsmen face zero competition for places that does not come from men with little or no first team experience
If we have any spare money at all, then I'd have thought Brian would look to add an extra batsmen in the winter?
A frustrating day. Marcus and Arul started splendidly and I
had my eyes fied firmly on 350+ by close.Compton looked in good form but should not have gone so soon before lunch.James and Craig did not look at all with it but tremendous praise to Lewis and Pete for superb innings. Chas was hius usual embarrasing self.
I was glad when they came off for light...we wouldn't have taken a wicket if they'd still been playing. Still my oft quoted maxim that it only takes 10 balls to take 10 wickets still applies for tomorrow...if we get any weather. Lewis Pete Arul and Murali and give the other 3 a rest.
had my eyes fied firmly on 350+ by close.Compton looked in good form but should not have gone so soon before lunch.James and Craig did not look at all with it but tremendous praise to Lewis and Pete for superb innings. Chas was hius usual embarrasing self.
I was glad when they came off for light...we wouldn't have taken a wicket if they'd still been playing. Still my oft quoted maxim that it only takes 10 balls to take 10 wickets still applies for tomorrow...if we get any weather. Lewis Pete Arul and Murali and give the other 3 a rest.
Fat lot of good he would do us!!! Pretty glad that Trott and Bell are not playing for Warks.
On paper it's an ordinary Warks batting line-up and Kartik could make inroads tomorrow.
On paper it's an ordinary Warks batting line-up and Kartik could make inroads tomorrow.
BR says absolutely disgusting! The problem is that the selectors have not used opportunities to test the younger players in 'battle' situations. One opportunity once in a while is NOT a true test of their ability.
Some much needed brutal honesty from BR!!
Our middle order has been mostly poor this season and our new ball bowling has also had bad days.
Both seem to have come togather today.
Our middle order has been mostly poor this season and our new ball bowling has also had bad days.
Both seem to have come togather today.
Huge day in the season tomorrow.
More importantly than our game if Durham roll Yorkies over they are going to be a long long way clear.
Equally we have to bowl Warwicks out, absolute maximum of 350 i'd say but closer to our score the better.
Murali is going to be the key, seem to remember he caused huge problems against them last year in both our home and away victories.
More importantly than our game if Durham roll Yorkies over they are going to be a long long way clear.
Equally we have to bowl Warwicks out, absolute maximum of 350 i'd say but closer to our score the better.
Murali is going to be the key, seem to remember he caused huge problems against them last year in both our home and away victories.
I am just suprised that you and others who have no time for negative comments or realism as I like to view it haven't mentioned his comments thats all.
I do have plenty of time too for others with differing opinions from my own as long as they are not rammed down ones throat as sometimes they are.
However, please feel free to remove the post at your own discretion I have absolutely no issue with that at all.
I do have plenty of time too for others with differing opinions from my own as long as they are not rammed down ones throat as sometimes they are.
However, please feel free to remove the post at your own discretion I have absolutely no issue with that at all.
Well that is your view of "realism" which may be up for debate at times and will be discussed if that is the case.
You seem to assume that these 'others' are incapable of more than one view - uncharitable for many on here who are independent enough to have their own minds and varying levels of opinion.
Only weak members of a forum allow the opinions of others to be 'rammed' down their throats as you put it.
I personally would not define you (or many others) as such though I would say you get as emotional as the rest of us at times concerning your views when questioned by differing beliefs and perspectives.
I'll take out some material and leave this in. I'd ask you to discuss rather than simply look to provoke.
Posts like the original lose any argument before it starts because of the disrespect inherent in them. We're all guilty of them from time to time but not usually as a starting position on this forum.
I'd also remind you that there is no entry fee for posting here and posters are welcome to come and go as they please. What they don't like they can comment on or they can find a forum more to their liking. It's a free world and we try to restrict comment as little as possible within the main rules.
Oh and if you think I'm incapable of being critical or calling it when it's rubbish then you've read very little of my contribution on this site in the past 15 years and you really don't know me at all :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:22:19:04 by Grockle.
You seem to assume that these 'others' are incapable of more than one view - uncharitable for many on here who are independent enough to have their own minds and varying levels of opinion.
Only weak members of a forum allow the opinions of others to be 'rammed' down their throats as you put it.
I personally would not define you (or many others) as such though I would say you get as emotional as the rest of us at times concerning your views when questioned by differing beliefs and perspectives.
I'll take out some material and leave this in. I'd ask you to discuss rather than simply look to provoke.
Posts like the original lose any argument before it starts because of the disrespect inherent in them. We're all guilty of them from time to time but not usually as a starting position on this forum.
I'd also remind you that there is no entry fee for posting here and posters are welcome to come and go as they please. What they don't like they can comment on or they can find a forum more to their liking. It's a free world and we try to restrict comment as little as possible within the main rules.
Oh and if you think I'm incapable of being critical or calling it when it's rubbish then you've read very little of my contribution on this site in the past 15 years and you really don't know me at all :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:20:22:19:04 by Grockle.
Sounds like another day at the office for Somerset Schizophrenics.
The only thing we are consistent at this year is being inconsistent......in spades !
Weird.
Grizzzly
The only thing we are consistent at this year is being inconsistent......in spades !
Weird.
Grizzzly
Emotion in cricket is not a bad thing. Neither is getting emotional about the team you support, I see nothing wrong with that whichever way it is expressed. but of course there are people who do unless that emotion is expressed in a so called "positive" way.
Well guess what, we are all different, thats what makes forums and what makes the world go round. So if I get emotional about it I apologise but thats the way it is.
Well guess what, we are all different, thats what makes forums and what makes the world go round. So if I get emotional about it I apologise but thats the way it is.
Well you don't seem to be listening so I think I'll call it a night on this one.
Every discussion here has a pro or an anti view (you can call them what you like). Most people who look for balance may take one side in one discussion and another in another.
If you have trouble with that then I'm sorry but you'll struggle to pigeon hole people because they'll keep looking at each situation on merit.
They may criticise excesses on both sides because they are excessive but they are entitled to their opinions as long as they don't make their comments personal.
Reactions based on some stereotypical perception tend to miss the point and add very little to what is going on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:21:00:02:10 by Grockle.
Every discussion here has a pro or an anti view (you can call them what you like). Most people who look for balance may take one side in one discussion and another in another.
If you have trouble with that then I'm sorry but you'll struggle to pigeon hole people because they'll keep looking at each situation on merit.
They may criticise excesses on both sides because they are excessive but they are entitled to their opinions as long as they don't make their comments personal.
Reactions based on some stereotypical perception tend to miss the point and add very little to what is going on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:21:00:02:10 by Grockle.
Looks like the forecast for tomorrow and Thursday has improved sharply.
IF that forecast is correct, this game will probably have a result. Based on the way the forecast for the final two days looked as stated yesterday, that did not look probable.
So..... given that we appear to have batted very weakly indeed on a fairly sluggish surface, we'd better bowl (and field) out of our skins today.
Getting nothing with the new ball was little surprise as that's been a regular feature of our CC season, but the seamers have usually managed to hit back with the slightly older ball, from 20 overs or so onwards.
Today, they can presumably all be rotated from one end, allowing them to bowl shorter, sharper spells, whilst Kartik tries to weave his magic (or at the very least tie the batsmen down) from the other end.
Lewis justified his selection with his runs which is a good job because I can't see him bowling very much if we do, indeed, have Kartik operate from one end for most of the day. In that case, Lewis would, presumably, have four seamers ahead of him in the pecking order to bowl from the non-Kartik end?
IF that forecast is correct, this game will probably have a result. Based on the way the forecast for the final two days looked as stated yesterday, that did not look probable.
So..... given that we appear to have batted very weakly indeed on a fairly sluggish surface, we'd better bowl (and field) out of our skins today.
Getting nothing with the new ball was little surprise as that's been a regular feature of our CC season, but the seamers have usually managed to hit back with the slightly older ball, from 20 overs or so onwards.
Today, they can presumably all be rotated from one end, allowing them to bowl shorter, sharper spells, whilst Kartik tries to weave his magic (or at the very least tie the batsmen down) from the other end.
Lewis justified his selection with his runs which is a good job because I can't see him bowling very much if we do, indeed, have Kartik operate from one end for most of the day. In that case, Lewis would, presumably, have four seamers ahead of him in the pecking order to bowl from the non-Kartik end?
Quote:Mike BOS
I do hope the team has played some form of cricket amongst themselves, we haven't played a competitive match for two weeks.
My earlier post comes to mind - Did they?
The trouble is, Mike, that we seem to be quite a bit worse than other Counties at "playing from cold."
The first Warwickshire game was the same sort of story -- as was the opening T20 game vs Hants.
Other teams seem to be able to hit the ground running better than we do.... even teams that may have less overall talent ... why?
Answers on a postcard to Brian Rose.
A solution is needed, I would think.. after all in the modern era of only 16 CC games, how often has any County won the CC after losing its first two games? (something which we have contrived to do both this season and last)
The first Warwickshire game was the same sort of story -- as was the opening T20 game vs Hants.
Other teams seem to be able to hit the ground running better than we do.... even teams that may have less overall talent ... why?
Answers on a postcard to Brian Rose.
A solution is needed, I would think.. after all in the modern era of only 16 CC games, how often has any County won the CC after losing its first two games? (something which we have contrived to do both this season and last)
If Durham beat Yorks today then we will struggle if we don't win this game.
So the team hasn't played for 2 weeks...so what!! They harp on about having too much cricket and then when they dont get they moan that they are under-prepared. You cant have it all ways.
I think we are not as adept as some teams at coming out of the blocks or from adapting between different games.Haven't a clue why that is.
So the team hasn't played for 2 weeks...so what!! They harp on about having too much cricket and then when they dont get they moan that they are under-prepared. You cant have it all ways.
I think we are not as adept as some teams at coming out of the blocks or from adapting between different games.Haven't a clue why that is.
But have we been better at then keeping momentum going once it has been built up - this season being a marked difference in that regard.
Some sprinters have a better second half of their race than their first.
It's how strong you are at the end that is important though sorting out the front end would help you get there. Notts struggled from the halfway point last year and managed to pip us (though two years before the rules would have given us the title).
If you lose two and win 14 you'll get the title. If you lose 2 and fail to get moving after that you won't.
The losses at the front are only important if your consistency is poor al the way through and that will possibly be what stops us in the end. Sorting out the first two games is not the only thing we have to work on if this year is not a success.
Consistency has always been our problem and usually it is at the back end of the season where it loses us trophies.
Some sprinters have a better second half of their race than their first.
It's how strong you are at the end that is important though sorting out the front end would help you get there. Notts struggled from the halfway point last year and managed to pip us (though two years before the rules would have given us the title).
If you lose two and win 14 you'll get the title. If you lose 2 and fail to get moving after that you won't.
The losses at the front are only important if your consistency is poor al the way through and that will possibly be what stops us in the end. Sorting out the first two games is not the only thing we have to work on if this year is not a success.
Consistency has always been our problem and usually it is at the back end of the season where it loses us trophies.
I don't really think it was the back end that cost us last season, though? Certainly not in the CC.
The T20, one could say the Pollard injury was decisive (just bad luck.)
The Pro 40? Yeah, a batting collapse chucked away what should have been a winning position. Even then, I think we might have managed a successful defence if we'd not insisted on picking Mark Turner... many of us said all week, beforehand, that we'd surely be better off with Charl, especially as some damp and movement was expected.
Of course, this much is also true;
Even if team x plays consistently well after the first two games (having lost the first two) it will probably still not win the CC if team y plays consistently for the whole season (including the first two games.)
Last season it required two things to drag SCCC into contention - a GREAT run of form for us AND a Devon Loch by Notts (until the final game)
The T20, one could say the Pollard injury was decisive (just bad luck.)
The Pro 40? Yeah, a batting collapse chucked away what should have been a winning position. Even then, I think we might have managed a successful defence if we'd not insisted on picking Mark Turner... many of us said all week, beforehand, that we'd surely be better off with Charl, especially as some damp and movement was expected.
Of course, this much is also true;
Even if team x plays consistently well after the first two games (having lost the first two) it will probably still not win the CC if team y plays consistently for the whole season (including the first two games.)
Last season it required two things to drag SCCC into contention - a GREAT run of form for us AND a Devon Loch by Notts (until the final game)
and Brian Rose has made that very consistency point on the other site too.we need to sort it now though or the analysis above will all mean nothing.
Another factor too!!............if it keeps raining between now and Sept then points on the board are the order of the day at this juncture
Another factor too!!............if it keeps raining between now and Sept then points on the board are the order of the day at this juncture
Yep, Ronnie, weather pattern appears to have deteriorated sharply since the start of June. We really need it to improve .. not only because we want as much cricket as possible but because we want assistance in terms of preparing tracks for Kartik?
You can see where the problem lies looking at our batting figures Marcus is the run away leader. [stats.espncricinfo.com]
Nick Compton scored almost half his runs in one innings, next is Arul Suppiah he makes a start and doesn’t go on to make a big score except once (95), next is Pete Trego now he is one player I can’t blame for not scoring a lot of runs, he keeps running out of partners, NO 4 times and yesterday he ended up swinging the bat because he had run out of partners.
Let’s hope for a better second half of the season.
Nick Compton scored almost half his runs in one innings, next is Arul Suppiah he makes a start and doesn’t go on to make a big score except once (95), next is Pete Trego now he is one player I can’t blame for not scoring a lot of runs, he keeps running out of partners, NO 4 times and yesterday he ended up swinging the bat because he had run out of partners.
Let’s hope for a better second half of the season.
I agree with you, Mike, batting the main culprit.
I keep coming back to a lack of competition for places... how do guys stay constantly on their toes when they know that their places are all but guaranteed?
When the back-ups are largely untested players, you need to perform much, much worse before you get dropped than if you have players in reserve that have enjoyed at least some success in first-class cricket.
I keep coming back to a lack of competition for places... how do guys stay constantly on their toes when they know that their places are all but guaranteed?
When the back-ups are largely untested players, you need to perform much, much worse before you get dropped than if you have players in reserve that have enjoyed at least some success in first-class cricket.
Brown stuff... knee deep, if not waist deep.
One does rather wonder if Marcus's brilliance might mean that some of the others are a little too relaxed about things at times.. whether there's a "We've got Marcus, we'll be fine," sort of attitude at times.
One does rather wonder if Marcus's brilliance might mean that some of the others are a little too relaxed about things at times.. whether there's a "We've got Marcus, we'll be fine," sort of attitude at times.
Think Hildreths lack of form alongside others doesn't help. When we are good, we are sublime at times (600 at Durham). When not we are distinctly average if not poor (yesterday for example). Doesn't seem to be a in between where we get 300-350
To be honest, it mainly seems to depend on whether Marcus makes a ton or not.. he does and we go on to a big score. He doesn't and we flop.
Only two tons scored by people other than Marcus for SCCC this season. Durham have rattled up something like 16 tons between their players... less reliant on one key batsman overall.
Only two tons scored by people other than Marcus for SCCC this season. Durham have rattled up something like 16 tons between their players... less reliant on one key batsman overall.
But he is there and we aren't in the brown stuff. And... If he hadn't been there someone else may have stepped up or we would have bought someone else i, who knows.
Maybe we need to take a backward step this year compared to last in order to make bigger strides next.
Maybe we need to take a backward step this year compared to last in order to make bigger strides next.
Well, Nailsea, there was always a chance this was going to be a transitional type of year as we made the decision to go with no experienced players whatsoever in reserve.....
so there was always going to be a period (and it might be longer than just one season) in which said reserve players need to gain experience and develop and (in some cases) in due course take a place away from an incumbent.
so there was always going to be a period (and it might be longer than just one season) in which said reserve players need to gain experience and develop and (in some cases) in due course take a place away from an incumbent.
Apparently we might be about to become the first team to concede a century opening stand to Warks for two years or so according to their radio team.
Please get Kartik on ASAP, it does not really sound as though the seamers are about to take any wickets any time soon.
It looks like the ball is doing a bit more this morning all we need is a bit of luck. (or a run-out).
We are leaking runs far too quickly as well.. we've got to stem the tide and Kartik is surely the best hope of doing that?
120-0 and yet no sign of Trego, Gregory or Suppiah. Has Rose and Hurry banned Tres from using them?
None of them were ever going to bowl much, IMO. Kartik will take half of all the old ball overs (from 35 or so onwards) I would imagine and then the three main seamers will be rotated. Pete did not get much bowling last season until near the end (when everybody else was knackered) largely, I think, because Kartik was doing so much bowling with the old ball.
team meeting has worked wonders I see. Im also glad there is a question mark after the title to this thread.
Well, I really do not think we're going to be getting that elusive CC Title this year.
Quite apart from the fact that we are most unlikely to win this game, one would have to assume, that following another T20 break, we will then deliver another entirely underwhelming performance in the first CC game after the T20 too... after all we seem to be poor at switching formats.
Quite apart from the fact that we are most unlikely to win this game, one would have to assume, that following another T20 break, we will then deliver another entirely underwhelming performance in the first CC game after the T20 too... after all we seem to be poor at switching formats.
160-0 for now. Still only 4 bowlers used. Can we only assume that Tres have NO FAITH in TREGO, GREGORY or SUPPIAH. For goodness sake - something isn't right!
I think we can assume that it's a total flat-track, pretty much, on which we batted in witless fashion.
Three truly awful batting performances out of three against Warks this season..... they're not even that good, for heavens' sake!
Three truly awful batting performances out of three against Warks this season..... they're not even that good, for heavens' sake!
If a side plays consistently for the whole season then it doesn't matter where the losses come does it? Because they won't!
Did we win anything last season? No
Why didn't we win anything last season? Because we didn't finish anyone off.
When was the CC1 lost? Kent
Was that one of the first two games? No
Were we more consistent last season than we have been in the past? Yep but there were glitches once we got moving !
What has been the main emphasis of coaching and the rest in the winter for the past 3 years? Finishing the competitions off...
Have we improved because of that? Think so.
The start is important but unless you maintain a momentum once you have it you are dead and buried irrespective of how you start.
Concentrate on the start and the rest of the season could unravel. Get the behemoth moving and then keep it consistent is surely the solution.
Did we win anything last season? No
Why didn't we win anything last season? Because we didn't finish anyone off.
When was the CC1 lost? Kent
Was that one of the first two games? No
Were we more consistent last season than we have been in the past? Yep but there were glitches once we got moving !
What has been the main emphasis of coaching and the rest in the winter for the past 3 years? Finishing the competitions off...
Have we improved because of that? Think so.
The start is important but unless you maintain a momentum once you have it you are dead and buried irrespective of how you start.
Concentrate on the start and the rest of the season could unravel. Get the behemoth moving and then keep it consistent is surely the solution.
But Grockle - simple things surely - try the other bowlers - even Donkey drops from Compton?
It makes little or no sense to me to say that the campaign was lost thanks to a game that we did not even lose! You might as well say it was lost at Durham in the final game!?
Either way, I'd be astonished if there isn't a MASSIVE emphasis on getting it right at the start of next season. I mean, granted, we lost the first two last season, but at least they were only losses, as opposed to the two humiliations with which we started this season.
Either way, I'd be astonished if there isn't a MASSIVE emphasis on getting it right at the start of next season. I mean, granted, we lost the first two last season, but at least they were only losses, as opposed to the two humiliations with which we started this season.
I think we need to start doing Rain dances pretty pronto. Only way of salvaging this game that I can foresee.
Looks like Yorkshire might hold Durham to a draw and Notts/Lancs is in the balance.
I expect Gregory to be chucked the ball shortly after lunch and take a wicket within his first 2 overs...!
Looks like Yorkshire might hold Durham to a draw and Notts/Lancs is in the balance.
I expect Gregory to be chucked the ball shortly after lunch and take a wicket within his first 2 overs...!
Blimey! Tres has remembered Trego bowls. Somebody drop him a hint that Gregory and Suppiah might be worth a go!
if Kirby also has to be managed as he has an ankle issue this is also a strange way of doing it....by bowling him to the exclusion of others!!
Still i'm sure Marcus has a better view of the situaton from where he is and isn't doing it on purpose
He's looked in on this site and taken the tip - Suppiah 1 over 1 maiden!. Just get Gregory on and we've cracked it!
Old Boy for coach as Treeeeeego strikes
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:21:13:49:35 by Nailsea_Fizz.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:21:13:49:35 by Nailsea_Fizz.
Basically, we need to eliminate the other 9 for about 100 runs, though, with the way we bat against these opponents!
The problem is that they know they only need a lead of 50 and will then declare!! Still bring in Dibble, Buttler, Dockrell, Thomas or Waller (3 from 5) for Willoughby, Kirby and Hussain and we are almost there!
Last time we met Chopra scored his highest ever - so this time will it be Westwood with his highest ever? 239-1 - I think WE are playing for a draw!
First team to concede a double ton opening partnership to Warks for something like 12 years, I think they said?
I think we should avoid the new ball like the plague... just keeping bowling spin and defend, try to take time out of this game and hope for some weather help.
what happens if we get to tomorrow and Kieswetter is not out overnight and has to travel with England on Thurs. Does he have to retire as out or can he retire and someone else replaces him and resumes his innings?
You've got something there AGod.
First three BEST?? bowlers 37 overs 142 runs
Second three bowlers 31 overs 86 runs 1 wicket
As you say - more haste (speed) means less success
slow down AND DON't panic Corporal Jones!
First three BEST?? bowlers 37 overs 142 runs
Second three bowlers 31 overs 86 runs 1 wicket
As you say - more haste (speed) means less success
slow down AND DON't panic Corporal Jones!
I'd guess we've had less new ball success than any other team in Div One this season, anyway. When the seamers have had good game, it's usually been with a slightly older ball, so if we take the new ball it probably means we get 20 or so overs of futility before we can expect to be in with a shout, wickets wise!
If we could avoid playing Warwicks and Sussex maybe we could win some - never mind may be next year that could happen! I reckon a lead of 250 by close and over by tomorrow teatime.
We'll probably slowly start to fightback with the ball now... in other words, we'll have started playing half way through day two, whilst Warks started playing early on Day One!
Hello Nailsea_Fizz
Sorry if you think it is defeatist talk - I really do wish things were different. Even the commentators cannot understand why Tres has not bowled Gregory - they say that he looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights and won't try anything new!
Sorry if you think it is defeatist talk - I really do wish things were different. Even the commentators cannot understand why Tres has not bowled Gregory - they say that he looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights and won't try anything new!
I was going to say it is hard to judge from here but that remark was from somebody watching the match.
And a third wicket.
And a third wicket.
Another 7 in the next 50 runs and were in with a chance!
On a side note, looks like Yorkshire are batting out a draw at CLS.
On a side note, looks like Yorkshire are batting out a draw at CLS.
as things have gone not a bad afternoon for us. Still fighting away.
Hopefully Yorks will hang on and then we really have to hit our straps in just about every game in the last 8.
To put it all in perspective though, if we do not win this Worcs will only have one win less than us at half way.
Hopefully Yorks will hang on and then we really have to hit our straps in just about every game in the last 8.
To put it all in perspective though, if we do not win this Worcs will only have one win less than us at half way.
Yep, the glass genuinely contains exactly half a glass of liquid, Ronnie, as will be pretty much exactly in mid-table and with no particular momentum one way or the other, having not strung a sequence of one type of result together.
Willow just kidded the Irishman - let him take 14 in the over and then he was so confident he left a straight one!
Might now have some hope of limiting the scale of their lead, though every chance that Woakes will take it away from us with the bat as he did at Taunton.
Isn't Woakes off with England ODI squad from tomorrow or is it just day 4 he's off?
Durham/Yorks has finished as a draw, that's a bonus really if we can escape from this position some how.
Realistically, the "some how," would probably involve a huge innings from Tresco - a double ton or something like that.
Indeed, but looking at the fact we have a game in hand on Durham and still to play then if we are going to lose, a game where others slip up its not the worst time to do it.
Of course we should be making ground on days like this but no chance of that now. We are going to have to play well in last 8 to win it from here in.
Lancs in a spot of bother against Notts too - 249/8
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:21:17:20:39 by Tumbles.
Of course we should be making ground on days like this but no chance of that now. We are going to have to play well in last 8 to win it from here in.
Lancs in a spot of bother against Notts too - 249/8
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:21:17:20:39 by Tumbles.
Surely somebody's got to ask Tres - is Gregory no longer considered a bowler? If he is and can't get a bowl in today's situation then he is obviously considered surplus to requirements and is fighting for Jos Buttler's place as a batter. Sorry, but even in his current form Butler must be considered a better batting prospect. I would think that Gregory should be fighting with Kirby or Hussain for one of their places when Thomas is fit.
Maybe he's not fit to bowl - leftover from the wasp sting infection or something picked up while batting?
Two days to go in this match in case some people think this is Day 1 or something... Only one innings has been completed and not by both sides yet.
Wish I could predict so clearly who was going to win a CC1 game at Tea on Day 2.
Wish I could predict so clearly who was going to win a CC1 game at Tea on Day 2.
If you are right over Gregory SheptonPaul fair enough - but without such reason, I just don't understand it.
I'm with OB on this one, Gregory has been whacked at times but he has also taken some good wickets. Appreciate the need not not over expose him early in career, however. But why so late to give Aruuuuuul a bowl?
If we can get them out in the first hour tomorrow we should have a lead of about 100 by close of play - is it too much to ask for Tres to score another big ton or will someone else come to the party?
I have no particular info, but I do trust my captain. Need a great day tomorrow.
I think it was fairly obvious that Gregory would be unlikely to bowl much, with Kartik back in the side
Gregory being sent out ahead of Pete made it even more obvious, at least to me --- they were saying to Lewis 'we've picked you as a number six batsman'
Gregory being sent out ahead of Pete made it even more obvious, at least to me --- they were saying to Lewis 'we've picked you as a number six batsman'
Not a bad fightback from 200 odd for none.
Early wickets tomorrow please and see where we get to with the bat.
That will be our order of the day I think!!
Early wickets tomorrow please and see where we get to with the bat.
That will be our order of the day I think!!
Our bowling was less than inspiring today.The track is flat but with 2 wickets tospin in the last 3 overs and those of the established batsmen is there somethign for Murali in the 4th innings? Warwickshire have not paced their innings. They needed 100 off 22 overs to get the final 2 batting points. It wassoon apparent that they weren't interested but intended to buiold a bif score in the morning and only bat once. The wheels fell off and they lost wickets and still haven't got 400. We have 2 new batsmen on 0 .If they get a maximum of 420 (hopeful) it's 160 ahead with 85 overs tomorrw.If James and Nick decide to bat long and properly as well as MT andthe others than we will be 150 ahead at close of play. If the wicket does take spin - and the Warwick tactics (plus the last 4 overs make me think that is possible, then a 4th innings chase of 250 in 50 overs could be difficult. This of course depends on a quick finish off tomorrow and a decent batting performance.
We shall see!!
We shall see!!
Evening all. Just got back from Day 2 (I was there yesterday too). A few of my impressions from the first couple of days of sitting in the Eric Hollies Stand:
The batting was a real mixed bag. Trescothick excellent as usual, Trego a very responsible innings and played well with Gregory, who played well and would bet did better than Buttler would have. Compton, Hildreth and Kieswetter were all out playing daft shots. Compton to a sweep shot about two balls in to the spinner's first over, Hildreth hanging out and getting a nick and not sure what Kieswetter was doing as it was neither forward nor back.
The other thing to say about the batting is that the 3 rabbits policy is a poor idea. It relies on all of the batsmen firing, which in practice never happens in any team.
Charl in particular makes no effort regardless of the situation - Somerset needed 5 runs for a bonus point and he played in the same way as when we had scored those 5 and secured the point (which Trego was able to achieve through the sheer good fortune of the Warks bowler not bowling at the stumps). His batting is hilarious when Somerset are on the way to an otherwise dull draw, not so when a point is at stake.
On the bowling, the only ones who have really looked the part have been Trego and Kartik. They both bowled well. I don't know why more use is not made of Trego, or why Gregory is yet to be bowled.
Willoughby was very lucky to get a wicket during the over in which three balls had gone to the boundary. Had he not got that wicket, he would have been taken off, and he wouldn't have gone on to get his second.
Kirby continues to give it his all, but is not proving penetrating. Hussain only seems able to bowl well for a couple of overs, then just leaks runs without looking like taking a wicket.
That just leaves Kieswetter, who I am pleased to see has his England call-up. I wish him well, but hope that his keeping will be better than it has been in this match. It hasn't been terrible by any means, but several mistakes were made that will be shown up very quickly in the scrutiny of an international match.
My guess is that wickets will (hopefully) fall quite quickly tomorrow, but realistically it will then be about trying to bat for the draw as Somerset will be too far behind to press for a victory. My recommendation would be that they do not try to go at 5 an over, which they were doing at times in the first innings. It's just too fast for this type of cricket, and shows in how quickly the whole team was dismissed.
Overall then a moderately negative score for Somerset's performance, but it hasn't been terrible and a few players have shone. Hoping for better in the next couple of days - some quick wickets tomorrow morning followed by some solid batting would help put things right.
One final puzzling aspect of the day's play is that the Warks batsmen made no effort whatsoever to gain the final batting point, despite having several wickets in hand and a lead over Somerset. At times they batted at 2 an over - the 50 partnership was reached in 96 balls. Very odd indeed, especially as there is a high chance the rain will force a draw. Either way, it is unlikely they could have lost from there, so why not have a go and get the bonus point?
The batting was a real mixed bag. Trescothick excellent as usual, Trego a very responsible innings and played well with Gregory, who played well and would bet did better than Buttler would have. Compton, Hildreth and Kieswetter were all out playing daft shots. Compton to a sweep shot about two balls in to the spinner's first over, Hildreth hanging out and getting a nick and not sure what Kieswetter was doing as it was neither forward nor back.
The other thing to say about the batting is that the 3 rabbits policy is a poor idea. It relies on all of the batsmen firing, which in practice never happens in any team.
Charl in particular makes no effort regardless of the situation - Somerset needed 5 runs for a bonus point and he played in the same way as when we had scored those 5 and secured the point (which Trego was able to achieve through the sheer good fortune of the Warks bowler not bowling at the stumps). His batting is hilarious when Somerset are on the way to an otherwise dull draw, not so when a point is at stake.
On the bowling, the only ones who have really looked the part have been Trego and Kartik. They both bowled well. I don't know why more use is not made of Trego, or why Gregory is yet to be bowled.
Willoughby was very lucky to get a wicket during the over in which three balls had gone to the boundary. Had he not got that wicket, he would have been taken off, and he wouldn't have gone on to get his second.
Kirby continues to give it his all, but is not proving penetrating. Hussain only seems able to bowl well for a couple of overs, then just leaks runs without looking like taking a wicket.
That just leaves Kieswetter, who I am pleased to see has his England call-up. I wish him well, but hope that his keeping will be better than it has been in this match. It hasn't been terrible by any means, but several mistakes were made that will be shown up very quickly in the scrutiny of an international match.
My guess is that wickets will (hopefully) fall quite quickly tomorrow, but realistically it will then be about trying to bat for the draw as Somerset will be too far behind to press for a victory. My recommendation would be that they do not try to go at 5 an over, which they were doing at times in the first innings. It's just too fast for this type of cricket, and shows in how quickly the whole team was dismissed.
Overall then a moderately negative score for Somerset's performance, but it hasn't been terrible and a few players have shone. Hoping for better in the next couple of days - some quick wickets tomorrow morning followed by some solid batting would help put things right.
One final puzzling aspect of the day's play is that the Warks batsmen made no effort whatsoever to gain the final batting point, despite having several wickets in hand and a lead over Somerset. At times they batted at 2 an over - the 50 partnership was reached in 96 balls. Very odd indeed, especially as there is a high chance the rain will force a draw. Either way, it is unlikely they could have lost from there, so why not have a go and get the bonus point?
I was also there today.
Given our struggle most of the day can't see how we were bowled out yesterday.
Kirby, Tregs and Arul all came to field by me at various times of the day and commented how dead the pitch was, and ball wasnt moving an inch off straight.
Thought we stuck to the task well given very negative batting most of the day from Warwicks.
If our batters get heads down a draw should be very acheivable, our tail always a worry though, especially if match situation is an added pressure.
Huge morning tomorrow, if Woakes gets going we could soon be 150-180+ adrift and awful long way back from there.
Very impressive new stand since our visit last year, still seems bit of work to do before India test mind.....
Given our struggle most of the day can't see how we were bowled out yesterday.
Kirby, Tregs and Arul all came to field by me at various times of the day and commented how dead the pitch was, and ball wasnt moving an inch off straight.
Thought we stuck to the task well given very negative batting most of the day from Warwicks.
If our batters get heads down a draw should be very acheivable, our tail always a worry though, especially if match situation is an added pressure.
Huge morning tomorrow, if Woakes gets going we could soon be 150-180+ adrift and awful long way back from there.
Very impressive new stand since our visit last year, still seems bit of work to do before India test mind.....
"Kirby, Tregs and Arul all came to field by me at various times of the day and commented how dead the pitch was, and ball wasnt moving an inch off straight. "
No excuse whatsoever for our batsmen tomorrow, then!
That tail - described yesterday by George Dobell as 'long and weak,' is certainly a worry, though
No excuse whatsoever for our batsmen tomorrow, then!
That tail - described yesterday by George Dobell as 'long and weak,' is certainly a worry, though
I was also there today. I agree with PaddedUp's analysis of the bowling. Consistently with those comments, I was surprised that Trego was not given a go with a newish second new ball - at a time when the ball seemed to be swinging. Like others, I was surprised that Gregory wasn't tried.
The whole team seemed flat today (much more so than when they faced a big first innings partnership at Hove). I wonder what effect the various conversations which apparently took place this morning had on the mood of the team.
The whole team seemed flat today (much more so than when they faced a big first innings partnership at Hove). I wonder what effect the various conversations which apparently took place this morning had on the mood of the team.
Well George...it's no longer or weaker than it has been all season because the only change is that Murali is the guy playing with Gemaal, Kirbs and Charl.
So we bat to 7/8...as we have all season.
So we bat to 7/8...as we have all season.
According to The Independent, CK put down Porterfield on 0, that would have made at least -72 runs difference if he'd clung on. Oh well, that's life.
Looking at the scorecard, it looks odds-on that Hussain (13-0-56-0) is going to be 'rested' for the next match unless he comes up with the goods soon. That should shorten the tail ...
Regarding the batting, I note that Michael Thornely is still in the seconds and playing consistently better than anybody else - has his time come? He could slot in at 5 if CK is not around, for example. Then Joss could come in at 7 or 8 to keep wicket and bolster the batting. That still leaves Kirby, Willoughby, Trego, Gregory (if fit to bowl?), Kartik and Suppiah to cover bowling duties - surely enough if they bowl well? Another all-round option is Meschede, so there is plenty of competition for places.
Regarding the batting, I note that Michael Thornely is still in the seconds and playing consistently better than anybody else - has his time come? He could slot in at 5 if CK is not around, for example. Then Joss could come in at 7 or 8 to keep wicket and bolster the batting. That still leaves Kirby, Willoughby, Trego, Gregory (if fit to bowl?), Kartik and Suppiah to cover bowling duties - surely enough if they bowl well? Another all-round option is Meschede, so there is plenty of competition for places.
Wickham – sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but what conversations were had with the team this morning?
I will answer that for Wickham.
Quote from the other site. -
Cricket is a funny game and at least we could take some momentum from the two late wickets. But we had a poor opening 45 minutes today and we are aware that we have fallen short in several areas so far.
"The players have been spoken to individually and are aware of what we expect of them. Durham drawing with Yorkshire was a good result for us and we need to squeeze every point we can out of this game.
End quote.
[www.somersetcountycc.premiumtv.co.uk]
Quote from the other site. -
Cricket is a funny game and at least we could take some momentum from the two late wickets. But we had a poor opening 45 minutes today and we are aware that we have fallen short in several areas so far.
"The players have been spoken to individually and are aware of what we expect of them. Durham drawing with Yorkshire was a good result for us and we need to squeeze every point we can out of this game.
End quote.
[www.somersetcountycc.premiumtv.co.uk]
Did anyone ask why TRES only used four bowlers until Warwick were nearly 200, when, as far as we know he had seven possibilities.
It might appear that the bowling arrangements are pre-programmed and no one is allowed to change them until there is a 'committee meeting' at the break
Brian Rose said on Monday - "If we continue to bat like that we will be relegated."
Also, he said - "We are being found wanting both mentally and technically with our batting."
Has he not been making statements such as that since the first debacle v. Warwickshire at the start of the season? So, why are not the players, as full - time professionals, taking this on board?
I wasn't there yesterday, but those who were have been less than complimentary concerning not only our batting (ranging from Number 3 in the batting order down to the complete lack of "effort" apparently shown by Willoughby at Number 11), but also the wicket - keeping, the lack of penetration in our bowling plus some veiled hints of criticism concerning our captain's tactics over the choice of his bowling options.
Are we really lacking in all these respects?
If the answer is "Yes", then we really do have a long way to go in order to ascend to the dizzy heights predicted for us pre - season, don't we?
Also, he said - "We are being found wanting both mentally and technically with our batting."
Has he not been making statements such as that since the first debacle v. Warwickshire at the start of the season? So, why are not the players, as full - time professionals, taking this on board?
I wasn't there yesterday, but those who were have been less than complimentary concerning not only our batting (ranging from Number 3 in the batting order down to the complete lack of "effort" apparently shown by Willoughby at Number 11), but also the wicket - keeping, the lack of penetration in our bowling plus some veiled hints of criticism concerning our captain's tactics over the choice of his bowling options.
Are we really lacking in all these respects?
If the answer is "Yes", then we really do have a long way to go in order to ascend to the dizzy heights predicted for us pre - season, don't we?
I think that is right CP. If the answer is yes and we have been asking these questions all season then we do have a long way to go.
I would say though that some of these things in cricket are dealing with small margins and momentum is also a great thing. We need to find all this shortly if this is to be the year. If not then its on to next year and look to see what needs to be done to get us there.
I would say though that some of these things in cricket are dealing with small margins and momentum is also a great thing. We need to find all this shortly if this is to be the year. If not then its on to next year and look to see what needs to be done to get us there.
The really worrying thing is that in the two previous games this season (the first two) in which we found ourselves significantly behind the eight ball, we folded like a cheap suit, as opposed to really fighting, tooth and claw.
I would make the following suggestion;
1) If we lose this match, it's not necessarily the end of our CC hopes, given that Durham did not win and Lancs may very well not do so either.
2) If, however, we go down without a fight we can forget it completely and absolutely. So far this season we seem to be good front-runners - when we get on top we can do a decent job of polishing people off - but no good at rearguard actions. You can't win a title that way unless you are soooooooooooooo good that you never get behind the eight ball in the first place. We are certainly not THAT good.
I would make the following suggestion;
1) If we lose this match, it's not necessarily the end of our CC hopes, given that Durham did not win and Lancs may very well not do so either.
2) If, however, we go down without a fight we can forget it completely and absolutely. So far this season we seem to be good front-runners - when we get on top we can do a decent job of polishing people off - but no good at rearguard actions. You can't win a title that way unless you are soooooooooooooo good that you never get behind the eight ball in the first place. We are certainly not THAT good.
It must be doubly disappointing for TRES as he has batted and fielded so well. One has to wonder about his tactical and strategic skills - whether that is caused by himself or has he been let down by others - players or selectors?
A captain is only ever as good as his bowlers.
Realistically, Hussain has yet to pan out (but was still worth the gamble and might pan out next season) and I'm wondering whether Willow is now past his best? Does not seem to have been all that effective this season, overall? Certainly the numbers suggest he's been less effective than in most of his previous seasons. And then Alf has been unavailable the whole time. This is Kartik's first first-class match since, I would guess, late February or something like that.. so bound to be a bit of rust there?
Of course, the biggest problem of all in this game is that we made a crummy score on a track which sounds more like a 450 track than a 250 track.... that will make life tough for any captain in the field!!
These guys need to come out today with their chests out and give a performance befitting of a team that can challenge for a CC..
Realistically, Hussain has yet to pan out (but was still worth the gamble and might pan out next season) and I'm wondering whether Willow is now past his best? Does not seem to have been all that effective this season, overall? Certainly the numbers suggest he's been less effective than in most of his previous seasons. And then Alf has been unavailable the whole time. This is Kartik's first first-class match since, I would guess, late February or something like that.. so bound to be a bit of rust there?
Of course, the biggest problem of all in this game is that we made a crummy score on a track which sounds more like a 450 track than a 250 track.... that will make life tough for any captain in the field!!
These guys need to come out today with their chests out and give a performance befitting of a team that can challenge for a CC..
if the wicket is as dead as they say it is not a bad effort getting them from 202 for 0 to 398 for 7......thats 196 for 7 really.
As you say need to get out there get stuck in get those 3 wickets and bat on from there. Simple really!!"!!
As you say need to get out there get stuck in get those 3 wickets and bat on from there. Simple really!!"!!
For what it's worth, the forecast for the rest of the game is basically sound, Mike - just the odd shower forecast.
p.s Ronnie - yep, 7 for 196 looks a fair effort from 202 for 0 but I would imagine Brian, Andy and Marcus are tearing their hair out and all these starts that opponents seem to be getting against us?
I can't remember a season like it with so many big opening stands against us? In fact, away from Taunton, it feels like it's happened to us in virtually every game?
Hants had two massive opening stands. 202 for Warks in this one. I think Lancs made 80 odd at Liverpool? I can't remember what Durham got, but I think they went past 50 too?
Along with our problems reading T20 pitches away from Taunton with the bat, one is also bound to wonder whether our bowlers have been too slow to "read and adapt," to first-class pitches on our travels?
p.s Ronnie - yep, 7 for 196 looks a fair effort from 202 for 0 but I would imagine Brian, Andy and Marcus are tearing their hair out and all these starts that opponents seem to be getting against us?
I can't remember a season like it with so many big opening stands against us? In fact, away from Taunton, it feels like it's happened to us in virtually every game?
Hants had two massive opening stands. 202 for Warks in this one. I think Lancs made 80 odd at Liverpool? I can't remember what Durham got, but I think they went past 50 too?
Along with our problems reading T20 pitches away from Taunton with the bat, one is also bound to wonder whether our bowlers have been too slow to "read and adapt," to first-class pitches on our travels?
I checked my facts, Ronnie, on the away games.
At Hove, we got Nash out for one.
Other than that, the LOWEST opening stand that opponents have made against SCCC is 71!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure some of these tracks have been flat, but still - new ball bowling?
FAIL away from Taunton.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:11:10:55 by AGod.
At Hove, we got Nash out for one.
Other than that, the LOWEST opening stand that opponents have made against SCCC is 71!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure some of these tracks have been flat, but still - new ball bowling?
FAIL away from Taunton.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:11:10:55 by AGod.
Further;
In away CC games, opposing opening stands have put on a total of 974 runs at an AVERAGE of 121.75 runs per opening stand.
In those same games our own openers have put together opening stands totalling 332 runs at an average of 47.42 runs per opening stand.
Now.. 47.42 runs per opening stand strikes me as reasonably good... I think most teams would take 47 as an opening stand more often than not?
But nearly 122 runs against as an opening stand on average?
That's the stuff of which bowlers' (and captain's and coach's) nightmares are made.
In away CC games, opposing opening stands have put on a total of 974 runs at an AVERAGE of 121.75 runs per opening stand.
In those same games our own openers have put together opening stands totalling 332 runs at an average of 47.42 runs per opening stand.
Now.. 47.42 runs per opening stand strikes me as reasonably good... I think most teams would take 47 as an opening stand more often than not?
But nearly 122 runs against as an opening stand on average?
That's the stuff of which bowlers' (and captain's and coach's) nightmares are made.
Christ. If the batting folds 'like a cheap suit' and the bowlers can't get the opposing openers out...
It's amazing we are where we are really isn't it?
Wonder how that happened? Marcus can't take 20 wickets so it can't be him.
Kirby has just got Woakes by the wayif your actually interested in what is going on in the game presently happening.
It's amazing we are where we are really isn't it?
Wonder how that happened? Marcus can't take 20 wickets so it can't be him.
Kirby has just got Woakes by the wayif your actually interested in what is going on in the game presently happening.
15 off 11 overs this morning, Metters 2* off 37. Is anyone else finding Warwickshire's tactics incomprehensible?
yes Mike. Difficult to understand.
You would have thought they would want to get straight in about our batting as soon as possible.
Then again maybe they only think they'll need 14 or 15 overs to roll us over
You would have thought they would want to get straight in about our batting as soon as possible.
Then again maybe they only think they'll need 14 or 15 overs to roll us over
I can attribute Warwickshire's extraordinarily negative batting this morning only to the brilliance of Somerset's bowling.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:mikeindex
15 off 11 overs this morning, Metters 2* off 37. Is anyone else finding Warwickshire's tactics incomprehensible?
I can only guess that they probably think that this track either is already deteriorating or that they are convinced that it will do if they can only occupy it for a long enough period.
Grockle commented on how - at Taunton - Warks set their stall out primarily to bat for a very long time and how effectively this contrasted with our approach to that game. One cannot necessarily blame them if they think that taking the same approach again may produce the same result.
or maybe they are just trying to grind us into the dust as they have got plenty of time to get us out again.
I remember when Rankin was a complete rabbit with the bat. He appears to have improved.
I remember when Rankin was a complete rabbit with the bat. He appears to have improved.
Rankin may indeed have improved .. or the track may be as painfully flat as Arul, Pete and somebody else told one of our correspondents it was.
I do get the impression that Rankin bowled uncommonly well. We sounded untroubled by people like Woakes and Miller and they have sounded untroubled by our pacemen.
I do get the impression that Rankin bowled uncommonly well. We sounded untroubled by people like Woakes and Miller and they have sounded untroubled by our pacemen.
Notts have done their usual top order collapse at Trent Bridge. If they do not also do their usual lower order recovery, then Lancs will have an excellent chance of winning there.
I'm still pretty shocked by how well Lancs have been doing. Perhaps Peter Moores has been unfairly belittled as a result of the KP fiasco?
I always thought Sussex won two titles mainly because of Mushtaq. But if Moores can get a Lancs team with zero stars to win it for the first time in living memory....
I'm still pretty shocked by how well Lancs have been doing. Perhaps Peter Moores has been unfairly belittled as a result of the KP fiasco?
I always thought Sussex won two titles mainly because of Mushtaq. But if Moores can get a Lancs team with zero stars to win it for the first time in living memory....
Warwickshire 202/0 and 448 all out. We're clearly on a roll. A quick 450 by lunch tomorrow and it's ours.
(Sorry to be so negative, BJ)
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
(Sorry to be so negative, BJ)
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
And plenty of time left to get the runs and put them back in LoL? (that negativity bug is catching :-)
One gone already, but the real mystery - Gregory could bowl - so was Marcus ordered to give him one over!
I remember that infamous Saturday earlier in the season- thank goodness I can't get to Birmingham - that morning I left when we lost the first one and by the time I got there on my bike, we were 42 - 8!!
Yep Arul gone!!
The wheels are coming off - all out by tea!!
Nothing but a typhoon for 48 hours can save our season now!!
The wheels are coming off - all out by tea!!
Nothing but a typhoon for 48 hours can save our season now!!
Old Boy - Gregory's stock in trade is fast yorkers.
I'd guess they think he's best suited to bowl at the tail0-end as they are most likely to fail against a fast yorker?
Certainly could have had more than one over, though!
I'd guess they think he's best suited to bowl at the tail0-end as they are most likely to fail against a fast yorker?
Certainly could have had more than one over, though!
answer me this! If Kieswetter gets in, and is not out overnight and goes back to Bristol to be with England, does Jos just resume in the morning in his place?
What a good question, ronnie! It would be outrageuous is he were tp be called away in mid-innings for anything other than a family bereavement.
But there is an obvious solution: the man to take his place would have to be ... Andrew Strauss.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
But there is an obvious solution: the man to take his place would have to be ... Andrew Strauss.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
brilliant answer LOL...........it has to be him. After all he isn't playing t20 or 1 dayers now so he is available.
Can't we have Cook instead? Essex have no fixture and perhaps he fancies a tune-up before the ODIs?
I have to say that Ronnie's question has me stumped. My instinctive reaction would be to say that that cannot be right?
Then again, I would reflect on that and say that it is the magnificent ECB that makes up the rules so the fact that Jos simply taking over from Craig mid-innings would seem to make a mockery of the game does not necessarily mean that that is not the rule!
Still... I would think we can all agree on this? if Craig is not out at the close, I think we'll have done rather well today and be in with a shot of getting out of dodge here!
I have to say that Ronnie's question has me stumped. My instinctive reaction would be to say that that cannot be right?
Then again, I would reflect on that and say that it is the magnificent ECB that makes up the rules so the fact that Jos simply taking over from Craig mid-innings would seem to make a mockery of the game does not necessarily mean that that is not the rule!
Still... I would think we can all agree on this? if Craig is not out at the close, I think we'll have done rather well today and be in with a shot of getting out of dodge here!
That's a clever answer LoL.
The rules say Jos would have to wear Craig's clothes and wear a face mask that looks like him.
The rules say Jos would have to wear Craig's clothes and wear a face mask that looks like him.
Is Jos definitely the man called up? Adam Dibble was called to Brum unexpectedly on Monday evening.
Won't be a problem anyway. As soon as Marcus is out, Craig should have plenty of time to meet up with England when we do our cheap suit impression and keep CP in front in the prediction game by slumping to another imminent defeat.
Won't be a problem anyway. As soon as Marcus is out, Craig should have plenty of time to meet up with England when we do our cheap suit impression and keep CP in front in the prediction game by slumping to another imminent defeat.
Does he have to mimic the acccent too?
That might be the toughest part of the equation.
That might be the toughest part of the equation.
No he simply doesn't say anything. He'll have to let Nick Compton do all the calling and hasten the demise.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:13:27:01 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:13:27:01 by Grockle.
Grockle sounding like me!! Defeatist?
The boys (including BJ) won't like it - saying things like that. Even if we are 99-9 at the close BJ will say 'all is not lost'. I agree - it could rain for the next 24 hours!
The boys (including BJ) won't like it - saying things like that. Even if we are 99-9 at the close BJ will say 'all is not lost'. I agree - it could rain for the next 24 hours!
I think you will find Old Boy that he ripping what we call here "the pi**"
Though I remember a game last week when all was given up at half way.
Though I remember a game last week when all was given up at half way.
At least if we lose this one, we can concentrate on the T20 and the 40 over one and forget all about this boring championship stuff....(lol)
Quote:Grockle
No he simply doesn't say anything. He'll have to let Nick Compton do all the calling and hasten the demise.
That's a great line, Grockle!!
I'm just getting in the swing guys and gals. Everyone else is writing us off, thought I'd join the flock.
The T20 game last week was over and done with at half time and we all knew it Ron. The only reason it last 17 overs was because of the stubborness of Steve and his bowling crew who refused to give it up. There was never a hope in hell that we would be the victors and we didn't deserve to be.
The night after, even the most negatory were lauding Somerset around the same time when we did the same to Essex.
:-)
Swings and roundabouts and the season WILL continue after 6 tomorrow whatever happens.
The T20 game last week was over and done with at half time and we all knew it Ron. The only reason it last 17 overs was because of the stubborness of Steve and his bowling crew who refused to give it up. There was never a hope in hell that we would be the victors and we didn't deserve to be.
The night after, even the most negatory were lauding Somerset around the same time when we did the same to Essex.
:-)
Swings and roundabouts and the season WILL continue after 6 tomorrow whatever happens.
Lancs now strong favourites at Trent Bridge. The home side are only just more than 100 ahead, with 7 down.
I didnt' as you put it "know it" Grockle. Far from it.
It was just the same the following night when DL was a real possibility of denying us v Essex when Bopara and Shah were going at it. I never assumed that was in the bag either.
Its never over till its over although some deaths are quicker than others!!
It was just the same the following night when DL was a real possibility of denying us v Essex when Bopara and Shah were going at it. I never assumed that was in the bag either.
Its never over till its over although some deaths are quicker than others!!
I assumed both games were dead and buried at the half-way stage. But I have been wrong before.
In the case of the Sussex game, with hindsight, it might have been an interesting finish if we'd managed to bat out our 20 overs?
Nevertheless, if we'd totalled 120, rather than 90, I would not have been giving much of a prayer at the time our innings finished.
In the case of the Sussex game, with hindsight, it might have been an interesting finish if we'd managed to bat out our 20 overs?
Nevertheless, if we'd totalled 120, rather than 90, I would not have been giving much of a prayer at the time our innings finished.
Ahh well you're obviously more of a optimist than I am Ron.
I would have been embarrassed to have won the Sussex match we were so woeful as Essex would have been had there been some rain while Bopara and his partner were in for the first three. After that there was no chance of the rain stepping in and it was simply a question of time.
I would have been embarrassed to have won the Sussex match we were so woeful as Essex would have been had there been some rain while Bopara and his partner were in for the first three. After that there was no chance of the rain stepping in and it was simply a question of time.
AGod are you still surprised that Lans are doing so well so far this season
If, heaven forfend, Marcus gets out, will Compton try to adjust his approach?
When you are behind by hundreds of runs - as we were at Taunton - there's not necessarily much point in seeking to score runs unless you can do so without any risk at all. But in a game such as this one where we don't need a huge amount of runs to make them bat again, there is a clear purpose to scoring runs. So long as Tres is scoring, it may be irrelevant that Compton is not, but...
When you are behind by hundreds of runs - as we were at Taunton - there's not necessarily much point in seeking to score runs unless you can do so without any risk at all. But in a game such as this one where we don't need a huge amount of runs to make them bat again, there is a clear purpose to scoring runs. So long as Tres is scoring, it may be irrelevant that Compton is not, but...
that is true Grockle, but cricket is a funny game as we both well know and when you start to take things for granted is when you come unstuck most!!
As for optimistic, maybe pushing it a bit there but getting there!!!
As for optimistic, maybe pushing it a bit there but getting there!!!
Well I have to admit Ron. Had they got Goodwin earlier I may very well have been eating my post. But I did admit that at the time and would have been very happy to do so.
Noooooooooooooo - Hard hats on and watch out for the crash of wickets.
Now we'll see if the rest are made of the right stuff.... time for them to stand up and fight.. cannot go in the tank because Marcus is out and/or because it was sheer bad luck that he went.
this is true AG..........time to find out I think. Cant keep relying on Marcus all the time. He has carried the batting for the season and now the rest have to assist. If they get out of this predominently without him then it will provide greater comfort I think
If they can't then we will not get to where we all aspire to, and for BR it is surely something he and they will need to address.
If they can't then we will not get to where we all aspire to, and for BR it is surely something he and they will need to address.
Banger out to a very unlucky shot.
That's it then!
I'll close this thread down and start up the 'How bad are we' thread so people can get their ten penneth in early.
If I'm quick I'll get it up and running before the 'cheap suit' is folded and Warwickshire win.
That's it then!
I'll close this thread down and start up the 'How bad are we' thread so people can get their ten penneth in early.
If I'm quick I'll get it up and running before the 'cheap suit' is folded and Warwickshire win.
If they get out of it without him, it would be huge for them, confidence and conviction wise. Even though every batsman wants personal success, I suspect that if you offered Marcus the chance of getting out of this mainly thanks to himself or getting out of this mainly thanks to others he might opt for the latter.
Having said that, Chris Woakes told the Radio guys the same thing that our guys had said to our fan at the ground -- total flat-track.... so really we should EXPECT the others to get us out of it, if that is the case.
Having said that, Chris Woakes told the Radio guys the same thing that our guys had said to our fan at the ground -- total flat-track.... so really we should EXPECT the others to get us out of it, if that is the case.
A God,
I should just like to say that the consensus is that I am still alive - and I remember Lancashire winning the County Championship, albeit jointly with Surrey!
I should just like to say that the consensus is that I am still alive - and I remember Lancashire winning the County Championship, albeit jointly with Surrey!
I agree, Ronnie.
Bobstan - my apologies - I forgot that all the talk with Lancs is always all about not having won the title "outright," since 1930 or whatever it is.
Bobstan - my apologies - I forgot that all the talk with Lancs is always all about not having won the title "outright," since 1930 or whatever it is.
Dont write off Notts in this game just yet.
The usual end of innings comeback from them in this game.
The usual end of innings comeback from them in this game.
The rain interruption seems to have been a disaster for Lancs anyway .... as Notts have promptly added 70 odd for the next wicket.
Don't quite understand the Keiswetter thing. If he is leaving tonight, either send him in early or as things are now, with only a few overs left in the day, don't bat him, and lets see how Joss performs. Perhaps what I've said is the plan of course.
Apologies unneccessary, but thanks anyway, AG.
I can stop taking my pulse rate now.
I can stop taking my pulse rate now.
They have just answered the question, if Craig is not out Jos continues Craig innings.
I find the whole thing bonkers! So Craig could be 50 not out. Then Joss takes over tomorrow and the score card at the end of the innings will show 12 batters with two not out??? I bet Bill Frindall is up there screaming from the pearly gates!
Farcical, really, this subbing people out half way through an innings.
No doubt if we go down in this game there will be some grumbling about bad luck with two of the second innings dismissals.. but I hope Brian reminds any players that moan that neither dismissal would be a problem if the team had batted properly in the first dig!
No doubt if we go down in this game there will be some grumbling about bad luck with two of the second innings dismissals.. but I hope Brian reminds any players that moan that neither dismissal would be a problem if the team had batted properly in the first dig!
I bet every statistician is praying that Craig gets out tonight to save the sanity of all true scorers.
Well the craig issue isn't a problem as he's just picked up a pair plumb in front!!
We seem to have fought okay (so far) from the point that they reached 202 for 0 -- BUT it's that issue AGAIN of not being off the mark quickly enough.. as at the start of the season....... It's extremely difficult to win games if you make 250 or so on a 400+ pitch, and then let them cruise to 202 for 0!!!!!!!!!!!! YOu have to be a very, very good side to win a game from there and a stronger one than we currently are to save the game from there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:16:53:36 by AGod.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:16:53:36 by AGod.
I would love to be a little mouse and hear the summing up by BR and Hurry BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. I think it is time to stop the hype and try some youngsters - they may fail but so what? Would we be any worse off?
Brian already furious with the middle order before this second innings.... mood is unlikely to have been greatly improved.
How do we get them stimulated and listening? Ask if they will mind playing at Leicester, Derby and Chelmsford next season!
Quote:old boy!
I find the whole thing bonkers! So Craig could be 50 not out. Then Joss takes over tomorrow and the score card at the end of the innings will show 12 batters with two not out??? I bet Bill Frindall is up there screaming from the pearly gates!
I sadly suspect that it was the advent of such nonsenses that precipitated Frindall's untimely demise.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
If Lewis gets a few now it proves my point - given the young players a chance before they fly off somewhere else - I'm sure several are already planning that.
With hindsight, perhaps we should have said that if Craig K cannot play the whole game, we would not pick him and should have picked Jos instead?
You wonder how focussed (or otherwise) Craig K would have been, knowing that he was only going to be allowed to bat for 75 minutes or so, come hell or high water and with England duty beckoning?
You wonder how focussed (or otherwise) Craig K would have been, knowing that he was only going to be allowed to bat for 75 minutes or so, come hell or high water and with England duty beckoning?
Quote:Grockle
It's how strong you are at the end that is important though sorting out the front end would help you get there. Notts struggled from the halfway point last year and managed to pip us (though two years before the rules would have given us the title).
Wherever did you get that idea, Grockle?
It is simply factually incorrect; the Regulations for the 2010 season being exactly the same as those for 2008.
I haven't been following the commentary, but is there any chance that Craig got a good delivery?
Quote:Mike BOS
I am wondering if Jos is already there and would bat anyway.
Yes AGod I now wish that had happened.
Even if Gregory does not "get a few," (and he's not sounding massively secure) it does not necessarily disprove the point.
The problem now is that, with Worcs winning, we will not be a long way ahead of the drop zone so management are, I would think, likely to be less rather than more likely to gamble on any relatively untried players.
The problem now is that, with Worcs winning, we will not be a long way ahead of the drop zone so management are, I would think, likely to be less rather than more likely to gamble on any relatively untried players.
Im afraid when England come calling Mr K tends to lose interest. Check his scores out early doors last year when he was selected for the t20 World Cup!! His lack of innings today does not surprise me in the least.
Hildreth is also now back almost where he was two years ago. Up and down like a yo-yo. Last year we thought he had cracked his inconsistency issue. We know now that is not 100% sorted.
I think we have big issues which need to be addressed. Personally disappointing but I think I/we need to re-assess where we can get to this year. All the pre-season hype hasn't helped us either IMO.
Hildreth is also now back almost where he was two years ago. Up and down like a yo-yo. Last year we thought he had cracked his inconsistency issue. We know now that is not 100% sorted.
I think we have big issues which need to be addressed. Personally disappointing but I think I/we need to re-assess where we can get to this year. All the pre-season hype hasn't helped us either IMO.
[quote Bobstan]I haven't been following the commentary, but is there any chance that Craig got a good delivery?
If I were a betting man he will have played all round a straight one. Every time I have seen him out LBW that has been the case.
If I were a betting man he will have played all round a straight one. Every time I have seen him out LBW that has been the case.
Not surprised, past being disappointed, I signposted this ages ago.
Well, I think we can certainly take it that it was a straight one as they said he could have "walked," for his lbw.
Now Lewis Gregory apparently DID get a very good ball just now. The commentators expressed no opinion one way or the other about how good the ball that got Craig K was.
Now Lewis Gregory apparently DID get a very good ball just now. The commentators expressed no opinion one way or the other about how good the ball that got Craig K was.
To be honest, Ronnie, I think most England players lose interest when they are involved with the England set-up.
Certainly, a lot of England players seem to struggle when they go to their counties... Mr Strauss for example made very few runs in a longish stint with Middx at the start of last season... and Cook did next to nothing when sent out for Essex last season... so it's not just Craig K, but I think it's a problem for County sides.
Certainly, a lot of England players seem to struggle when they go to their counties... Mr Strauss for example made very few runs in a longish stint with Middx at the start of last season... and Cook did next to nothing when sent out for Essex last season... so it's not just Craig K, but I think it's a problem for County sides.
Somebody say 159 - 5? Sorry it should be, of course 159 - 6, because Willow is our number 11!
Sorry guys, but I say it year on year. Hildreth needs to come to the party! I'll no doubt be accused of being negative, however if you consider someone playing at 4 for another county with an equally inconsistent record your judgement would no doubt be a balanced one!
Not saying JH is the only culprit, please include Arul in this statement. To stabilise the top order Compton needs to open until someone comes to the club with a better opening record. I believe that we have a great bunch of youngsters coming through the ranks. For example I'm really looking forward to Dockrell getting his chance.
Not saying JH is the only culprit, please include Arul in this statement. To stabilise the top order Compton needs to open until someone comes to the club with a better opening record. I believe that we have a great bunch of youngsters coming through the ranks. For example I'm really looking forward to Dockrell getting his chance.
See OB you thought I was joking but we will probably not survive Day 4 - I am a Cricketing Oracle!!
Oh and Charl scored 4 in the first innings so once again your statement about his inability to score is incorrect.
Compton doing his job and the rest of them just throwing willow and poles away like they were confetti.
Well played Rikki Clarke.
Oh and Charl scored 4 in the first innings so once again your statement about his inability to score is incorrect.
Compton doing his job and the rest of them just throwing willow and poles away like they were confetti.
Well played Rikki Clarke.
Remember Graham Onions' form really suffering the day after he found out he'd been called up into England's Ashes squad. Took 6-31 as Somerset were bundled out for 69!
I think every away match I have listen to they mention Zander De Bruyn and how we are missing him.
I never argue with you Grockle! BUT 4 from Charl? We want 144 from him! Add 4 to what we've got and say 7 down! I'll give Kartik a few and Kirby & Hussain 10 between them!
Only two batsmen have performed consistently well in the CC this season, and they are Trescothick and Compton.
We must now forget the Championship and concentrate on getting enough points to avoid visits to the South East NEXT YEAR. On the other hand if we go down, there might be a clear out and my young champions can try their luck.
OB Charl is a liability with the bat and he knows it.
What is particularly galling to me about all of this is that our bowlers are saying to fans at the ground its a dead wicket, no movement etc but we get bowled out easily.
Its as if our bowlers are resigned to not taking wickets rather than rolling the sleeves up and trying to get them. Out batting also may not be good enough which is of course another issue.
This game and the next few will be long slogs now and I say this now we'd better be ready to fight because it seems to me at the moment (maybe bar Hampshire) that all the other teams certainly are, and my guess is that Hants will recover at some point.
What is particularly galling to me about all of this is that our bowlers are saying to fans at the ground its a dead wicket, no movement etc but we get bowled out easily.
Its as if our bowlers are resigned to not taking wickets rather than rolling the sleeves up and trying to get them. Out batting also may not be good enough which is of course another issue.
This game and the next few will be long slogs now and I say this now we'd better be ready to fight because it seems to me at the moment (maybe bar Hampshire) that all the other teams certainly are, and my guess is that Hants will recover at some point.
![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
It is hard for me to remember until this year when we have had 6 down that I almost give up on us putting up a fight.
I would love for them to prove me wrong.
Typing this the seventh wicket falls.
I would love for them to prove me wrong.
Typing this the seventh wicket falls.
They seem very keen to get back to Taunton. Must be buy one get one free in Bliss tonight.
We don't need more than 4 from Charl OB. It isn't what we pay him for. It's a middle order with a spine that we need. Since the beginning of the season except for the odd little light in the gloom we have watched 4 to 7 give up the ghost with almost nothing on the board.
Arul has to be a question at number 2 but can we bring in another uoung player because we don't have another Championship opener that I can think of.
James has made little
Jos has been ineffective
Lewis or Alex have been learning their trade
Craig got into it and then got injured
Pete has been fighting in quicksand most of the season because by the time he gets to the wicket there is little left to work with.
The much vaunted batting line-up has come up woefully short in the long format and our championship campaign should now be put on the back burner while we concentrate on silverware from somewhere else.
Arul has to be a question at number 2 but can we bring in another uoung player because we don't have another Championship opener that I can think of.
James has made little
Jos has been ineffective
Lewis or Alex have been learning their trade
Craig got into it and then got injured
Pete has been fighting in quicksand most of the season because by the time he gets to the wicket there is little left to work with.
The much vaunted batting line-up has come up woefully short in the long format and our championship campaign should now be put on the back burner while we concentrate on silverware from somewhere else.
You are right in what you say Grockle. I was joking about Charl, but these situations call for something light hearted if you don't want everyone to go mad. The club needs to rethink it's priorities, if we carry on like this match.
Would someone care to change the heading of this thread. What a farce.
the last paragraph I totally agree with Grockle.
We need to make sure though in putting it there we dont totally take our eye off it completely.
The after match comments of this game will be very very interesting. I dont expect anything to be held back, as it has happened too often .
Its funny but we hammered Warks twice last year and they recovered and got the silverware when we didn't.
Lightening anyone?
We need to make sure though in putting it there we dont totally take our eye off it completely.
The after match comments of this game will be very very interesting. I dont expect anything to be held back, as it has happened too often .
Its funny but we hammered Warks twice last year and they recovered and got the silverware when we didn't.
Lightening anyone?
The commentators have said Warwick did the double over two teams last year - both were relegated!
Comments are one thing, solving this problem that has been a Somerset one before is not as easy.
If we succeed in the short formats this season then it must not be forgotten in the autmun how truly awful we have been at times in the longer format.
If we succeed in the short formats this season then it must not be forgotten in the autmun how truly awful we have been at times in the longer format.
Will these guys have the stomach for a battle against the drop?
This looks an awful lot like the 'soft Somerset underbelly,' of old to me.
Bowlers on both sides said pitch was a millpond with Woakes saying that at lunch today.
Utterly unacceptable batting in this match.
This looks an awful lot like the 'soft Somerset underbelly,' of old to me.
Bowlers on both sides said pitch was a millpond with Woakes saying that at lunch today.
Utterly unacceptable batting in this match.
You guys sum up perfectly what the obvious problems at the club are. For a season that promised plenty and to have the best better in the county, actually the world, and yet such a dismal season.
A good dose of 2nd team cricket might be a real wake up call between now and the season end for some...I'm fed up now, off to the bowling club, hope the rain stays away.
A good dose of 2nd team cricket might be a real wake up call between now and the season end for some...I'm fed up now, off to the bowling club, hope the rain stays away.
I don't Arul is good enough to be a top opener, however he brings a lot more to the team (but does he bowl enough to be in as an all-rounder).
I wasn't confident with the batting when we didn't replace Zander, but we've blooded youngsters if we stay up it will be considered the right decision.
However the lack of batsmen completely nullifies the signing of Kirby who was brought into give us a championship winning pace attack, but by the time the youngsters are ready to be relied on, kirby will be in the twilight of his career.
Hopefully Dockrell will give us the option of playing two full time spinners soon.
I wasn't confident with the batting when we didn't replace Zander, but we've blooded youngsters if we stay up it will be considered the right decision.
However the lack of batsmen completely nullifies the signing of Kirby who was brought into give us a championship winning pace attack, but by the time the youngsters are ready to be relied on, kirby will be in the twilight of his career.
Hopefully Dockrell will give us the option of playing two full time spinners soon.
Before the game is over AG?
Jumping the gun a bit bringing in the R word...is this because BR used it so you think its a valid discussion?
Then again, as the commentators have said scoring 54 for 6 in a 'game saving' innings is not exactly Champion level cricekt is it?
Jumping the gun a bit bringing in the R word...is this because BR used it so you think its a valid discussion?
Then again, as the commentators have said scoring 54 for 6 in a 'game saving' innings is not exactly Champion level cricekt is it?
they will probably sign Thornley now and stick him in or something like that...........try and paper the cracks over till we get to the root of the problem.
4 defeats out of 8 and all defeats in a similar manner with other teams making batting look easy and the reasons for it will not be easy to solve the mystery. I hate the fact there seems to be no fight too, lets get down the road for Fridays game which will probably be washed out anyway.
THese days should never be forgotten when analysing the season. Warks certainly didnt last year when they were struggling. They re-inforced at the seasons end.
4 defeats out of 8 and all defeats in a similar manner with other teams making batting look easy and the reasons for it will not be easy to solve the mystery. I hate the fact there seems to be no fight too, lets get down the road for Fridays game which will probably be washed out anyway.
THese days should never be forgotten when analysing the season. Warks certainly didnt last year when they were struggling. They re-inforced at the seasons end.
Well said Scotsman19.
I will concede that Compton has now earned his spurs and justified BR's faith in him. Some jankers for some of the others please. It further complicates decision re Strauss - don't we need his place to get some of our existing team into form?
I will concede that Compton has now earned his spurs and justified BR's faith in him. Some jankers for some of the others please. It further complicates decision re Strauss - don't we need his place to get some of our existing team into form?
Thornley will not be signed - if we were going to do that we would have. Chris Jones may get his chance as Arul moves into the middle and one of the middle gets a chance to play in the seconds.
I'm not sure Zander would have solved this. Nick has done his job more times this year. It is James and Jos who have not been what they were by now this year. Whatever the front men get plus what ever Compo can eek out while the middle fiddles and burns plus whatever Pete can pull together with the tail is our total far too often!
We need meaningful middle order contributions consistently and we simply have not had them. And as you say Scotsman, that negates anything the bowlers do.
I'm not sure Zander would have solved this. Nick has done his job more times this year. It is James and Jos who have not been what they were by now this year. Whatever the front men get plus what ever Compo can eek out while the middle fiddles and burns plus whatever Pete can pull together with the tail is our total far too often!
We need meaningful middle order contributions consistently and we simply have not had them. And as you say Scotsman, that negates anything the bowlers do.
I must remember this saying.
“He hasn’t bowled very well since he has had the ball in his hands”
“He hasn’t bowled very well since he has had the ball in his hands”
and how exactly do you know he won't be signed?
My comment was made hypothetically and slightly tongue in cheek on the basis that BR may act on a gut reaction and on that basis he may sign him as some sort of temporary measure to paper over cracks.
So unless you have some insider track to the club and their thinking on Thornley it would be good to know why you can so categorically state why they won't or wouldn't?
My comment was made hypothetically and slightly tongue in cheek on the basis that BR may act on a gut reaction and on that basis he may sign him as some sort of temporary measure to paper over cracks.
So unless you have some insider track to the club and their thinking on Thornley it would be good to know why you can so categorically state why they won't or wouldn't?
I'm trying to think of a plus point from the day today and this is it.
Compton so far has batted with eight different partners. And he hasn't run any of them out!
Compton so far has batted with eight different partners. And he hasn't run any of them out!
Because he would have been signed when we needed him Ron.
What would be the point now?. He was showing form, was available and we were losing two major batsmen.
We didn't sign him......
What would be the point now?. He was showing form, was available and we were losing two major batsmen.
We didn't sign him......
Monkey Butler,
So very true, and we`re really paying the price now !
So very true, and we`re really paying the price now !
It looks like the match continue tomorrow, even if we are all out the change over of inning loses two + the over that is being bowled between innings.
Agree about the middle order problems but what about the opening bowling? Someone posted on this thread the stats for the new ball attack and they were pretty bad (average of 100 plus runs for the first wickets).
Would you drop one of willow or hussain (Kirby has at least taken wickets) and bring in another bowler. Or drop both and bring in one new ball bowler and one spinner?
Would you drop one of willow or hussain (Kirby has at least taken wickets) and bring in another bowler. Or drop both and bring in one new ball bowler and one spinner?
okay thats fine just thought you might know something that the rest didn't.
Seems strange though that they would even consider signing a guy for just one game? Now they know the issues and where the deficiancies lie I thought that might change the thinking......who knows!!
Seems strange though that they would even consider signing a guy for just one game? Now they know the issues and where the deficiancies lie I thought that might change the thinking......who knows!!
Well good luck with that :-)
I don't think they were considering one game I think they would have been considering cover and they seem to have decided they didn't need him.
If we failed to keep anyone it wasn't Zander.
We decided to clear our batting cover before ZdB went
I don't think they were considering one game I think they would have been considering cover and they seem to have decided they didn't need him.
If we failed to keep anyone it wasn't Zander.
We decided to clear our batting cover before ZdB went
Well done to Steve K for keeping Warwickshire away for the extra half hour - showed his supposed betters how to play this game and supported the only other man who has showed fight since Tea.
I hear there is a huge storm coming up through the midlands tomorrow reaching Birmingham at about 10.45am and lasting till about 5pm.
I heard it from a man in a white coat and they are taking me away now! Help!
I heard it from a man in a white coat and they are taking me away now! Help!
I kid you not! The commentators have just suggested that Warwick place a man (a very big man) very close in at short leg so that Willow can't run away to square leg (they have obviously seen him before!).
I am expecting BR to protest to Lords about alleged cruelty to number 11s.
I am expecting BR to protest to Lords about alleged cruelty to number 11s.
Grockle - to be honest - it's a combo of two main things that have made me mention an R word battle - 1. Simply looking at the table and 2. The manner of the defeat - the 3rd such this season in which we've been very uncompetitive.
I put the Sussex defeat in a different category but the two Warks defeats and the Lancs one have been horrific. Yes, I know we have one wicket left but NO Charl will not bat for hours on end to save us tomorrow!
I also think that teams below us will be having some good players available - eg Carberry and Tahir for Hants, Ajmal for Worcs, Bresnan for Yorks .. In other words I think others will be better in the 2nd half of the season than they were in the first.
I put the Sussex defeat in a different category but the two Warks defeats and the Lancs one have been horrific. Yes, I know we have one wicket left but NO Charl will not bat for hours on end to save us tomorrow!
I also think that teams below us will be having some good players available - eg Carberry and Tahir for Hants, Ajmal for Worcs, Bresnan for Yorks .. In other words I think others will be better in the 2nd half of the season than they were in the first.
If Brian was furious on Monday he must be apoplectic now.
The most worrying aspect of the Championship season is the way we have been outplayed for large proportions of our defeats.
Clearly the players ability is not in question but something is not right about the individual and collective mentality.
Oh well, back to the 20/20.
The most worrying aspect of the Championship season is the way we have been outplayed for large proportions of our defeats.
Clearly the players ability is not in question but something is not right about the individual and collective mentality.
Oh well, back to the 20/20.
I think thats a relevant point AG, we have to realise where we are and fight from there as the opposition isnt that bad and should get better. If you think you're too good and infallible thats when problems start.
Re the opening bowling yip I think it is also weak but the batters aren't helping that. People on here seem to love Hussain but 13 overs in an innings where the main injured bowler bowled nearly 30 said it all...marcus obviously thought he couldnt be trusted to bowl any more.
Id replace him either with a spinner or bring Meschede in if he can bowl well.
What with all the rain and then this game its not been an easy 3 weeks for us........
Re the opening bowling yip I think it is also weak but the batters aren't helping that. People on here seem to love Hussain but 13 overs in an innings where the main injured bowler bowled nearly 30 said it all...marcus obviously thought he couldnt be trusted to bowl any more.
Id replace him either with a spinner or bring Meschede in if he can bowl well.
What with all the rain and then this game its not been an easy 3 weeks for us........
I can't agree with making the CC somehow less of a focus from now on. I think relegation would be an absolute disaster and the focus should be on avoiding that, IMO.
You don't work on the other competitions then you don't instill confidence and you don't fight in the Championship and yo still go down!!
There shouldn't be a decrease in effort for any game but there was far too much expectation this year in the Championship - we were never more than a possible in that.
However after last August/September this side needs success and that means CB40 and T20 are of more relevant importance at the moment.
You fight for everything when yo feel you deserve to be in a division.
Then again maybe our role should be more about support than ripping every poor performance to pieces but that doesn't happen either does it?
There shouldn't be a decrease in effort for any game but there was far too much expectation this year in the Championship - we were never more than a possible in that.
However after last August/September this side needs success and that means CB40 and T20 are of more relevant importance at the moment.
You fight for everything when yo feel you deserve to be in a division.
Then again maybe our role should be more about support than ripping every poor performance to pieces but that doesn't happen either does it?
If you are in Div Two you stand to lose your best players AND you go on all the lists of Counties to be abolished.
I think we've simply got to start getting as much batting as possible into the team.
Grockle - you are right that it's not the tail's fault. You were right that IF the top six got the job done we ought to be able to overcome a dodgy 9, 10 and 11. But we can all see that the top six unit is misfiring AND I would argue that there are few obvious personnel changes that we could make in that top six.... Promoting Pete is possibly the only one that really comes to mind?
But since Kirby is the only bowler to have fully fired we could tinker elsewhere. I think A N Other ... Be it Barrow or Craig M for Hussain is one obvious switch. Kartik is probably going to bowl 30+ overs in every innings so 3 main seamers should be fine? If Willow doesn't pick up with the new ball then we could even look at a possible change there with someone that could add more batting - maybe Dibble?
Of course, when Alf is back then you could have Alf for Hussain or Charl.
I think we've simply got to start getting as much batting as possible into the team.
Grockle - you are right that it's not the tail's fault. You were right that IF the top six got the job done we ought to be able to overcome a dodgy 9, 10 and 11. But we can all see that the top six unit is misfiring AND I would argue that there are few obvious personnel changes that we could make in that top six.... Promoting Pete is possibly the only one that really comes to mind?
But since Kirby is the only bowler to have fully fired we could tinker elsewhere. I think A N Other ... Be it Barrow or Craig M for Hussain is one obvious switch. Kartik is probably going to bowl 30+ overs in every innings so 3 main seamers should be fine? If Willow doesn't pick up with the new ball then we could even look at a possible change there with someone that could add more batting - maybe Dibble?
Of course, when Alf is back then you could have Alf for Hussain or Charl.
To be honest, Grockle, I think we'll win most of our one day games anyway. Don't know if we'll win a trophy but I would worry that if we were in the latter stages of the one day stuff but in low mid table in the CC then our players would take their eye off the ball in the CC.
I hope that Brian is stressing that this is by far the most important competition. Even financially, the CC is where the biggest cash prizes are.
I hope that Brian is stressing that this is by far the most important competition. Even financially, the CC is where the biggest cash prizes are.
If I was a glsss-half-empty person I'd suggest all this may be shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic.
For example, I would not consider risking Alf for the final T20 group game if I thought it might mean he'd aggravate injury and miss more CC time - I would not do it even if it was a 'must win to qualify,' game.
Dare I say it ...? Was the Somerset resurgence 2007-2010 really down to one legendary Australian ...?
Call it transformational leadership.
But there's still time this season to turn things around, and let's not forget we're doing well in the limited overs.
Call it transformational leadership.
But there's still time this season to turn things around, and let's not forget we're doing well in the limited overs.
OK gang let us be honest !
We " strengthened " our pace attack by signing two Glos cast offs - one look at their averages/strike rate/economy in div two showed beyong doubt that they were never going to make an impression in div one - AND THEY HAVEN'T !!
Tresco is what he is - he will either make 50 plus or less than 10 - no problem with him overall.
Suppiah is never a div one championship opener and never will be.
Compton has worked hard for his runs and done well but he has been around and never set the world on fire.
CK and JB have illusions of grandeur - they think they are better than they are and believe they can hit two boundaries from their first over - they need to learn that they are not so good that they do not need to build an innings.
JH is/always has been/always will be inconsistent - end of.
Trego is a useful all rounder and nothing more.
The youngsters - we seem to get them and then destroy them - look back gang.
Captaincy ? - no way Marcus - great guy, great batsman but utterley useless captain.
Meanwhile behind the scences on the non playing side of the club - oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Can't say more for risk of damages !!
Lot wrong gang everywhere we look !!!
We " strengthened " our pace attack by signing two Glos cast offs - one look at their averages/strike rate/economy in div two showed beyong doubt that they were never going to make an impression in div one - AND THEY HAVEN'T !!
Tresco is what he is - he will either make 50 plus or less than 10 - no problem with him overall.
Suppiah is never a div one championship opener and never will be.
Compton has worked hard for his runs and done well but he has been around and never set the world on fire.
CK and JB have illusions of grandeur - they think they are better than they are and believe they can hit two boundaries from their first over - they need to learn that they are not so good that they do not need to build an innings.
JH is/always has been/always will be inconsistent - end of.
Trego is a useful all rounder and nothing more.
The youngsters - we seem to get them and then destroy them - look back gang.
Captaincy ? - no way Marcus - great guy, great batsman but utterley useless captain.
Meanwhile behind the scences on the non playing side of the club - oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Can't say more for risk of damages !!
Lot wrong gang everywhere we look !!!
Well Kirby has been the most effective CC bowler to date - by a distance.
If you think the bowlers are so awful then it makes no logical sense to slate Tres as a captain?
Ie captaining McGrath and Warne is simple, captaining Omari Banks and Simon Francis is hard.
If you think the bowlers are so awful then it makes no logical sense to slate Tres as a captain?
Ie captaining McGrath and Warne is simple, captaining Omari Banks and Simon Francis is hard.
Trego is a useful all rounder!!!
He would walk into any county team FACT.
The name Rodders just about sums it up.
Look where we were 4/5 yrs ago and how much the club has improved,guys like you should follow Derbyshire/Leicestershire where you probably would have something to moan about.
Get behind the team.
COACH
He would walk into any county team FACT.
The name Rodders just about sums it up.
Look where we were 4/5 yrs ago and how much the club has improved,guys like you should follow Derbyshire/Leicestershire where you probably would have something to moan about.
Get behind the team.
COACH
Quote:rodders12
Suppiah is never a div one championship opener and never will be.
2009; 1200 runs at 48. And Langer batted at three. So your statement is not only disrespectful, but it is incorrect.
The last couple of days have been hugely disappointing, and it is hard to find anything positive to say about the current level of performance; but slating the players' fundamental ability isn't that constructive.
from BBC website CCDiv1 averages (probably not including current match)
Kirby 31 wickets @ 25. Only 2 bowlers in this division have taken more wickets, Keedy 34 @ 22.35, Richardson 39 @ 26.69.
Neither were Gloucestershire 'cast offs' - they wanted to leave, Gloucetershire would have been more tha happy to keep them.
Oh my, i feel a migraine coming on . . .
Kirby 31 wickets @ 25. Only 2 bowlers in this division have taken more wickets, Keedy 34 @ 22.35, Richardson 39 @ 26.69.
Neither were Gloucestershire 'cast offs' - they wanted to leave, Gloucetershire would have been more tha happy to keep them.
Oh my, i feel a migraine coming on . . .
Quite right, Bo.
I could just as easily have chosen to respond to the "dissing" of Pete rather than Arul: but it's better coming from you!
I could just as easily have chosen to respond to the "dissing" of Pete rather than Arul: but it's better coming from you!
Not entirely convinced that a team captained by an 'utterly useless' captain would have finished runner up in all three competitions last season either.
If you are going to arrive here and use your first post to attempt to dismantle the Somerset side can I suggest a few things Roddy;
1) Get some facts behind the stuff you're going to post first
2) Bring some solutions - little respect for those who only turn up to moan and slate and disappear back into the woodwork the moment things go even remotely right
3) Be willing to back up the statements you make.
If you can't do that then please don't waste your time or ours because we are pretty busy doing the hatchet job ourselves with far more relevant info than you've brought to the table.
Welcome by the way...:-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:20:43:32 by Grockle.
1) Get some facts behind the stuff you're going to post first
2) Bring some solutions - little respect for those who only turn up to moan and slate and disappear back into the woodwork the moment things go even remotely right
3) Be willing to back up the statements you make.
If you can't do that then please don't waste your time or ours because we are pretty busy doing the hatchet job ourselves with far more relevant info than you've brought to the table.
Welcome by the way...:-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:20:43:32 by Grockle.
Nothing yet from Brian or Andy on official site.
There is some drivel about Pollard launching balls into orbit or something, though. Actually I didn't read it so don't know what it says but if the club think a cameo 30 off 15 balls from Pollard will fix things..
There is some drivel about Pollard launching balls into orbit or something, though. Actually I didn't read it so don't know what it says but if the club think a cameo 30 off 15 balls from Pollard will fix things..
It will in a T20 and that is what he is here for.
Don't disrespect the man's ability just because he isn't a member of the Championship squad AG.
Don't disrespect the man's ability just because he isn't a member of the Championship squad AG.
I wonder if he is here or there.
I watch the Friday pitch being prepared for the t20, it wasn't him on the heavy roller.
Edit MR Rose I Mean not Mr Pollard
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:20:55:37 by Mike BOS.
I watch the Friday pitch being prepared for the t20, it wasn't him on the heavy roller.
Edit MR Rose I Mean not Mr Pollard
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:20:55:37 by Mike BOS.
Hate to admit it but 30 off 15 by a middle order batsman may actually be an improvement . . .
What a thoroughly dissapointing day.
I do not see the logic in a fans site berating our own team.
We are not a bad team, the majority of the team is the same as last year.
From our first choice eleven the differences would be Zander, Alfie and Ben out, Jos/Comps in along with Kirby and Hussain???
Clearly we have missed Alfie a great deal due this blasted IPL.
Zander i feel has been a huge loss, its that mature steadying influence in the middle we are lacking amongst all our shot makers.
Even Ben, i wasn't against us letting him go, but he was a very useful number 8 batter and steady bowler, not 90mph but always respectable figures.
The tail really is poor, but it has been emphasised by the positions the top order has put it in.
If we made 400-5 more often the failiure of 8-11 wouldnt be so noticable.
All is not lost, i repeat we are not a bad team, i could not be any more confident that we will not be relegated, we have proved we can win games, we just also appear to be far more vulnerable to poor batting displays.
Lets get back on track with a good few wins in the 20-20 and get confidence back ready for the 2nd half of the 4 day season and just see what happens...
I do not see the logic in a fans site berating our own team.
We are not a bad team, the majority of the team is the same as last year.
From our first choice eleven the differences would be Zander, Alfie and Ben out, Jos/Comps in along with Kirby and Hussain???
Clearly we have missed Alfie a great deal due this blasted IPL.
Zander i feel has been a huge loss, its that mature steadying influence in the middle we are lacking amongst all our shot makers.
Even Ben, i wasn't against us letting him go, but he was a very useful number 8 batter and steady bowler, not 90mph but always respectable figures.
The tail really is poor, but it has been emphasised by the positions the top order has put it in.
If we made 400-5 more often the failiure of 8-11 wouldnt be so noticable.
All is not lost, i repeat we are not a bad team, i could not be any more confident that we will not be relegated, we have proved we can win games, we just also appear to be far more vulnerable to poor batting displays.
Lets get back on track with a good few wins in the 20-20 and get confidence back ready for the 2nd half of the 4 day season and just see what happens...
Brian says the problem is the players are not mentally suited to playing long innings. He says that this will be worked on ' in between T20 games.'
If Brian has correctly identified the problem then could there be anything less opportune than having to play a load of T20 junk?
It won't be easy for the coaching staff to intersperse entreaties to the batsmen to knuckle down with the match by match preparation that we will, presumably, be doing for each T20 game - in which the emphasis will, presumably, be hitting big?
Tough ask for Mr Cook.
If Brian has correctly identified the problem then could there be anything less opportune than having to play a load of T20 junk?
It won't be easy for the coaching staff to intersperse entreaties to the batsmen to knuckle down with the match by match preparation that we will, presumably, be doing for each T20 game - in which the emphasis will, presumably, be hitting big?
Tough ask for Mr Cook.
Number 10 did not fail today WSM. He showed a number of his more illustrious colleagues how to sell their wicket for time.
I think the thing we lost with Zander was not the solidity - Nick is showing that but what Compo can't do which ZdB was so good at is he can't turn from anchor to shot maker once the crisis is over. Nick holds an end up but he can't turn up the heat.
Though to be honest we haven't created a situation where that has been neccessary in many games this year.
The wonderful tail that some people seem to think we had last season could not have turned around some of the games they would have found themselves in this year and the problems this year have very little to do with a weak batting tail.
It has far more to do with a poorly performing batting line-up from 4 to 7 who have contributed almost nothing in any game of significance
One man has maintained his quality. Two men have developed the sticking power we wanted them to have (though the moment the job looked done he got himself injured) and one man has worked hard on his all round ability.
Three men who were kingpins in last seasons performances have done almost nothing on a consistent basis. We are effectively firing on 2 cylinders instead of six!!
But you're right WSM - this is not the mainstay of a supporters site and after tomorrow and the inevitable loss, we should get back to the next game and look for the positives.
I think the thing we lost with Zander was not the solidity - Nick is showing that but what Compo can't do which ZdB was so good at is he can't turn from anchor to shot maker once the crisis is over. Nick holds an end up but he can't turn up the heat.
Though to be honest we haven't created a situation where that has been neccessary in many games this year.
The wonderful tail that some people seem to think we had last season could not have turned around some of the games they would have found themselves in this year and the problems this year have very little to do with a weak batting tail.
It has far more to do with a poorly performing batting line-up from 4 to 7 who have contributed almost nothing in any game of significance
One man has maintained his quality. Two men have developed the sticking power we wanted them to have (though the moment the job looked done he got himself injured) and one man has worked hard on his all round ability.
Three men who were kingpins in last seasons performances have done almost nothing on a consistent basis. We are effectively firing on 2 cylinders instead of six!!
But you're right WSM - this is not the mainstay of a supporters site and after tomorrow and the inevitable loss, we should get back to the next game and look for the positives.
I shall be honest. Adisappointing day but an odd day. We took fartoo long to finish Warwick off and I couldn't understand their tactics this morning any more than I could last night.
Marcus'dismissal was pure bad luck;James'dismissal looked iffy. Compton deserves any amount of respect for his innings.He is the no.3 cement-leave him alone. Kirby batted with grit. OK so we are not doing as well as somem hoped. I said at the beginning of the season that bookies and commentators seemed to have got things wrong.
We shan't win the championship this year ;we may well win one or two one day trophies. All is not lost by any means.
What was the high point of the day? Tea and cakes with Wickham!!!!
Marcus'dismissal was pure bad luck;James'dismissal looked iffy. Compton deserves any amount of respect for his innings.He is the no.3 cement-leave him alone. Kirby batted with grit. OK so we are not doing as well as somem hoped. I said at the beginning of the season that bookies and commentators seemed to have got things wrong.
We shan't win the championship this year ;we may well win one or two one day trophies. All is not lost by any means.
What was the high point of the day? Tea and cakes with Wickham!!!!
The question is, though, to what extent has having a long tail encouraged opposing bowlers and/or increased the pressure on our top 7?
Nobody is pretending that numbers 8 and 9 were reeling off tons last season but I cannot remember a season in which 8-11 have contributed so few runs... Not even in the dark days of Div Two with Mark Garaway.
Nobody is pretending that numbers 8 and 9 were reeling off tons last season but I cannot remember a season in which 8-11 have contributed so few runs... Not even in the dark days of Div Two with Mark Garaway.
Just back from a very disappointing 3rd day at Edgbaston. A few thoughts from the RES Wyatt and Eric Hollies Stands on the batting (all that could be said about the bowling has been):
The batting was generally dreadful. I just don't think the team, Trescothick (and sometimes Compton) aside, are capable of batting long. They want to play every innings like a one-day event. Hildreth was very unlucky with his LBW decision - it was very high indeed. The others though were just poor batting.
The highlight for me was Steve Kirby's batting(!) For goodness' sake the man used pretty much the same shot for virtually every ball of his innings - back foot in the crease, front foot as far forward as he could get it, bat behind ball and block. But it achieved exactly what he and most of the others actually needed to do - not get out for as long as possible, with the score almost irrelevant.
If all the others had had Kirby's attitude, Somerset would now be in a significantly better position. Other than Trescothick and Compton, Kirby was the only batsman all day where I had any confidence that he wasn't going in to simply fold. What I saw was positive defensive play to a deliberate purpose, and that was sorely lacking in almost all of his predecessors at the crease. His whole body language said "Whatever has gone before, I'm here now, and I'm staying".
I also concur with Wickham's point from yesterday that the team as a whole generally looked very down; I think this was true from the off. It did not just gradually manifest itself as the game went downhill.
The batting was generally dreadful. I just don't think the team, Trescothick (and sometimes Compton) aside, are capable of batting long. They want to play every innings like a one-day event. Hildreth was very unlucky with his LBW decision - it was very high indeed. The others though were just poor batting.
The highlight for me was Steve Kirby's batting(!) For goodness' sake the man used pretty much the same shot for virtually every ball of his innings - back foot in the crease, front foot as far forward as he could get it, bat behind ball and block. But it achieved exactly what he and most of the others actually needed to do - not get out for as long as possible, with the score almost irrelevant.
If all the others had had Kirby's attitude, Somerset would now be in a significantly better position. Other than Trescothick and Compton, Kirby was the only batsman all day where I had any confidence that he wasn't going in to simply fold. What I saw was positive defensive play to a deliberate purpose, and that was sorely lacking in almost all of his predecessors at the crease. His whole body language said "Whatever has gone before, I'm here now, and I'm staying".
I also concur with Wickham's point from yesterday that the team as a whole generally looked very down; I think this was true from the off. It did not just gradually manifest itself as the game went downhill.
That damned T20 nonsense is ruining our chances of winning the CC.
Adapt boys, if we can't adapt we're going to struggle.
Adapt boys, if we can't adapt we're going to struggle.
If the team is looking down, then that's a shame. The few times I've managed to go to games in the last few years (when JL was captain) I was struck by how upbeat and motivated everybody seemed.
“I feel that in myself, Jimmy Cook and Marcus Trescothick we have the right personnel to help the players who are struggling” said Brian Rose.
No mention of Andy Hurry. Is he, as Head Coach, not able to help? If not, what on earth is he doing? Why do we need to acquire the services of a South African coach coming over here year after year, no doubt at a considerable cost to the club?
Furthermore, I am at a complete loss to understand why it is that the majority of professional First – Class cricketers need to be taught how to build an innings.
It really is mind-boggling. Every innings one plays is different from the last, and yet still there are many players who would appear not to appreciate the different approaches needed between a Twenty20 slog at Taunton, and a back to the wall situation when coming from behind on a ‘sticky’ pitch, in a County Championship fixture elsewhere.
I agree with a lot that our new correspondent rodders12 said, but not necessarily all.
As well as sorting out our team (and Rose has been given many suggestions on here as to what is actually wrong), perhaps he should also get the CEO to send out similar letters to the players to those that ‘Gladiator’ Peter Anderson did a number of years ago.
Does anyone else remember the furore that this caused at the time?
Oh, happy days.
No mention of Andy Hurry. Is he, as Head Coach, not able to help? If not, what on earth is he doing? Why do we need to acquire the services of a South African coach coming over here year after year, no doubt at a considerable cost to the club?
Furthermore, I am at a complete loss to understand why it is that the majority of professional First – Class cricketers need to be taught how to build an innings.
It really is mind-boggling. Every innings one plays is different from the last, and yet still there are many players who would appear not to appreciate the different approaches needed between a Twenty20 slog at Taunton, and a back to the wall situation when coming from behind on a ‘sticky’ pitch, in a County Championship fixture elsewhere.
I agree with a lot that our new correspondent rodders12 said, but not necessarily all.
As well as sorting out our team (and Rose has been given many suggestions on here as to what is actually wrong), perhaps he should also get the CEO to send out similar letters to the players to those that ‘Gladiator’ Peter Anderson did a number of years ago.
Does anyone else remember the furore that this caused at the time?
Oh, happy days.
Quote:AGod
The question is, though, to what extent has having a long tail encouraged opposing bowlers and/or increased the pressure on our top 7?
Nobody is pretending that numbers 8 and 9 were reeling off tons last season but I cannot remember a season in which 8-11 have contributed so few runs... Not even in the dark days of Div Two with Mark Garaway.
Are you honestly serious?
Do you really not understand how daft that sounds?
The tail means nothing. They aren't "putting pressure" on the front end - which theory book did you find that one in?
Three of our front end could not bat their way out of a paper bag at the moment in Championship matches.
Look THERE for your problems.
Please stop trying to blame it on our number 9 10 and 11 as if they hold the key to our batting woes because they can't bat - what cock eyed logic is that?
It's technique. It's a lack of belief. It's possibly too much releiance on their batting talisman Marcus.
Believe me AG IT ISN'T the fact that Steve Kirby is at 10 or Charl is at 11!!
Charl was at 11 last year!!
Get your flaming calculator out and work out how many runs the tail made in games last season. if it isn't more than 100 runs in every innings then this year THEY AREN'T THE PROBLEM!!
Do me a favour at least and lock this particular bandwagon of yours in a very dark isolated garage and leave it there.
I agree with a lot that our new correspondent rodders12 said, but not necessarily all.
Good job really CP because, as others have pointed out, some of it was factually incorrect and other bits were personally insulting.
But nail your colours up by all means they aren't a particular surprise to be honest.
I think Andy has responsibility for the whole playing squad as First Team coach by the way and when you have a batsman of the quality of the captain and an ex captain to help him and you pay (as you say) for a South African expert (I didn't see him but I hear he was quite a prolific Championship batsman) do you really need another person as well?
Managers delegate don't they - that way they use the effective people in the effective places.
Good job really CP because, as others have pointed out, some of it was factually incorrect and other bits were personally insulting.
But nail your colours up by all means they aren't a particular surprise to be honest.
I think Andy has responsibility for the whole playing squad as First Team coach by the way and when you have a batsman of the quality of the captain and an ex captain to help him and you pay (as you say) for a South African expert (I didn't see him but I hear he was quite a prolific Championship batsman) do you really need another person as well?
Managers delegate don't they - that way they use the effective people in the effective places.
My only major concern with a tail like we've got at the moment is that someone like Tregs has either been left stranded on probably 5 or 6 occasions, or has felt the need to bat in a one day way,knowing that he won't have a chance of batting for 2 sessions.
I believe Nick should move up and open.He has probably spent as much time against the new ball as Marcus.
Why hot give Gregory the chance to bat at three where he has batted on a regular basis.Hildy,Jos,CK and Tregs will come good, and Arul like Jos may need a couple of innings for the seconds to score a few runs.
Cannot understand Why Jos has been brought in for Craig tommorrow for the sake of maybe 20 minutes cricket.
Surely it would have made more sense to leave him with the seconds when they are trying to chase down 400 on the last day?
I believe Nick should move up and open.He has probably spent as much time against the new ball as Marcus.
Why hot give Gregory the chance to bat at three where he has batted on a regular basis.Hildy,Jos,CK and Tregs will come good, and Arul like Jos may need a couple of innings for the seconds to score a few runs.
Cannot understand Why Jos has been brought in for Craig tommorrow for the sake of maybe 20 minutes cricket.
Surely it would have made more sense to leave him with the seconds when they are trying to chase down 400 on the last day?
They need a keeper - though they could have brought in Barrow (maybe they will)
Some interesting thoughts there Nellie. Arul has had some stickyness so maybe he should go into the middle and let someone else take some seconds time.
BIG gamble asking Lewis to take that pivot role. Personally I don't think he's up for that just yet.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:23:41:40 by Grockle.
Some interesting thoughts there Nellie. Arul has had some stickyness so maybe he should go into the middle and let someone else take some seconds time.
BIG gamble asking Lewis to take that pivot role. Personally I don't think he's up for that just yet.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:22:23:41:40 by Grockle.
No choice, the sub had to be announced at the toss, clearly we wouldnt know how much or in what form we would need the sub, but if we'd batted better Jos would be set for a full day keeping wicket.
As it is he'll be keeping for 5-10mins max i'd expect...
As it is he'll be keeping for 5-10mins max i'd expect...
Ther can be few better ways to spend a day than watching cricket in the company of genial fellow supporters - including (in my case) Tractor, Mr and Mrs GM and PaddedUp.
As to the match, I agree with the summings up that GM and PU have already provided. The positives today were Trescothick's batting (as others have described, his dismissal was very unfortunate) and Compton's innings (he rarely looked in any trouble and he played exactly the type of innings that the situation required) The main disappointments were that the bowling (again) lacked penetration; and that - with the exception of Trescothick and, to some extent, Hildreth (he clearly felt that he had hit the ball - but the ball nevertheless beat him), Gregory (beaten by a yorker) and Kirby (who, as PaddedUp has described, fought hard before edging the left-arm spinner) - the batsmen got out to poor shots.
All that said, we haven't become a poor side. We are still well-placed in each of the three competitions - few, if any, other counties will be be able to boast of that.
As to the match, I agree with the summings up that GM and PU have already provided. The positives today were Trescothick's batting (as others have described, his dismissal was very unfortunate) and Compton's innings (he rarely looked in any trouble and he played exactly the type of innings that the situation required) The main disappointments were that the bowling (again) lacked penetration; and that - with the exception of Trescothick and, to some extent, Hildreth (he clearly felt that he had hit the ball - but the ball nevertheless beat him), Gregory (beaten by a yorker) and Kirby (who, as PaddedUp has described, fought hard before edging the left-arm spinner) - the batsmen got out to poor shots.
All that said, we haven't become a poor side. We are still well-placed in each of the three competitions - few, if any, other counties will be be able to boast of that.
Warwickshire have certainly got the better of us in the Championship this season & we can have no complaints at being well & truly stuffed - twice.
I continue to be utterly baffled by our inability to perform consistently at anything like our potential. As we have proved, when we do turn up, we can beat anyone (despite the shortcomings amply dissected above).
But we don't turn up anything beyond 50% of the time.
Why not ?
James seems to have reverted to being Mr inconsistent & his England chances are disappearing faster than German cash in Greece.
Arul is steady but no more.
Joss has a spectacularly severe case of "second season syndrome".
CK's motivation towards SCCC is debatable it seems (remember twitter ?).
etc. etc.
What is remarkable to me is how Marcus has managed to perform as he has,despite his own challenges. It must be massively dispiriting to see his own efforts undermined by those beneath him. We really would be in the cart without his efforts.
Come on guys - where is the spirit, the guts & the will to win ? We have all those qualities, but for some reason they get left in the dressing room literally half the time.
We have been slow starters for some years, so I also don't get why after all the pre season expenditure on coaching/overseas preparation etc. that we play utterly abysmally in the first two games of the Championship, then compound things by also arriving undercooked for the start of the 20/20. We knew the fixture list months ago, so we can hardly complain about the daft set up - it's the same for everyone.
We are under achieving & it is so very disappointing.
Reminds me of a teacher at Minehead Middle School commenting on my annual report at approx age 13 - "too satisfied with what he does & consequently achieves well below what he is capable of".
It hurt at the time.
Maybe it's time for the players to hurt a bit ?
It's also time to stop shooting the messenger, as has featured all too often on this site for a couple of months now. It doesn't make you any less of a supporter if you choose to tell it how it is.
AG got absolutely pilloried a while back simply for saying (the truth) that Durham were Championship favourites at that time & that we weren't consistent enough in comparison.
Ronnie S. also got it on the neck for telling a few home truths. Meanwhile CJ-M is the first to come forward to criticize posters for not being positive enough, yet invariably goes a.w.o.l when we turn in our all too frequent displays of mediocrity.
It would be refreshing to see more of the honesty that BR has shown in his comments on this game.
Especially from the players, who (Marcus & poss Trigger apart), are letting down the supporters,the Club,the Captain & most of all themselves.
Yes, things are a good deal better than a few years ago, but they are also a good deal worse than they could & should be based on the talent we have.
Not using that talent to maximum potential is a criminal offence.
Come on guys - we are SO much better than this.
Grizzzly
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:04:52:08 by Grizzzly.
I continue to be utterly baffled by our inability to perform consistently at anything like our potential. As we have proved, when we do turn up, we can beat anyone (despite the shortcomings amply dissected above).
But we don't turn up anything beyond 50% of the time.
Why not ?
James seems to have reverted to being Mr inconsistent & his England chances are disappearing faster than German cash in Greece.
Arul is steady but no more.
Joss has a spectacularly severe case of "second season syndrome".
CK's motivation towards SCCC is debatable it seems (remember twitter ?).
etc. etc.
What is remarkable to me is how Marcus has managed to perform as he has,despite his own challenges. It must be massively dispiriting to see his own efforts undermined by those beneath him. We really would be in the cart without his efforts.
Come on guys - where is the spirit, the guts & the will to win ? We have all those qualities, but for some reason they get left in the dressing room literally half the time.
We have been slow starters for some years, so I also don't get why after all the pre season expenditure on coaching/overseas preparation etc. that we play utterly abysmally in the first two games of the Championship, then compound things by also arriving undercooked for the start of the 20/20. We knew the fixture list months ago, so we can hardly complain about the daft set up - it's the same for everyone.
We are under achieving & it is so very disappointing.
Reminds me of a teacher at Minehead Middle School commenting on my annual report at approx age 13 - "too satisfied with what he does & consequently achieves well below what he is capable of".
It hurt at the time.
Maybe it's time for the players to hurt a bit ?
It's also time to stop shooting the messenger, as has featured all too often on this site for a couple of months now. It doesn't make you any less of a supporter if you choose to tell it how it is.
AG got absolutely pilloried a while back simply for saying (the truth) that Durham were Championship favourites at that time & that we weren't consistent enough in comparison.
Ronnie S. also got it on the neck for telling a few home truths. Meanwhile CJ-M is the first to come forward to criticize posters for not being positive enough, yet invariably goes a.w.o.l when we turn in our all too frequent displays of mediocrity.
It would be refreshing to see more of the honesty that BR has shown in his comments on this game.
Especially from the players, who (Marcus & poss Trigger apart), are letting down the supporters,the Club,the Captain & most of all themselves.
Yes, things are a good deal better than a few years ago, but they are also a good deal worse than they could & should be based on the talent we have.
Not using that talent to maximum potential is a criminal offence.
Come on guys - we are SO much better than this.
Grizzzly
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:04:52:08 by Grizzzly.
We all have our ideas and suggestions, but we are not paid to give them. I presume that we are posting on this site because we want to have pride in our teams performances. Depending on the individual's stand point, that may or may not be winning every game we play regardless of who our opponents are or our own personnel are.
For myself it is definitely not winning at all costs. I want to have as a supporter, the 'reflected glory' of players, young and old, mainly produced or nurtured by SCCC, playing to their best AND being allowed to grow into the game and skills required. We could take a few lessons from other counties who have gone through some lean times while their younger talent has matured. My prime example is staring us in the face today - Warwickshire.
For myself it is definitely not winning at all costs. I want to have as a supporter, the 'reflected glory' of players, young and old, mainly produced or nurtured by SCCC, playing to their best AND being allowed to grow into the game and skills required. We could take a few lessons from other counties who have gone through some lean times while their younger talent has matured. My prime example is staring us in the face today - Warwickshire.
An excellent and very well thought - out posting, Grizzzly.
Yes, I have been wondering the same as you - namely 'Where is cricketjerry-mouse?'
Yes, I have been wondering the same as you - namely 'Where is cricketjerry-mouse?'
I have been wondering what happened last season regarding who stayed with Peter Trego while batting.
I check the first few matches of the 2010 season out of curiosity, Pete batted at seven and the first few matches of the season most of the partnerships was with Damien Wright batting at eight.
After Damien departed he was partnered mainly by batsmen batting before him Hildreth/Kieswetter and Buttler and occasionally with Phillips batting after him.
As I said I only checked the first few matches of the season so I don’t know what it was like for the rest of the season.
I check the first few matches of the 2010 season out of curiosity, Pete batted at seven and the first few matches of the season most of the partnerships was with Damien Wright batting at eight.
After Damien departed he was partnered mainly by batsmen batting before him Hildreth/Kieswetter and Buttler and occasionally with Phillips batting after him.
As I said I only checked the first few matches of the season so I don’t know what it was like for the rest of the season.
"I think Andy has responsibility for the whole playing squad as First Team coach by the way and when you have a batsman of the quality of the captain and an ex captain to help him and you pay (as you say) for a South African expert (I didn't see him but I hear he was quite a prolific Championship batsman) do you really need another person as well?"
Some of Somerset's batters need every bit of help they can get at the moment, but maybe they respond better to those who have endured the rigours of batting at this level in the first instance, and are able to speak from a lot of experience.
I don't think that it bodes well for us if, as a few people have posted from their own observations (not only in this match but on other occasions) that, heads have dropped and the players' body language tends to indicate a lack of motivation.
I have not witnessed it myself, but if this is the case then we are rapidly sliding down the slippery pole to an unwelcome place in the County Championship.
Some of Somerset's batters need every bit of help they can get at the moment, but maybe they respond better to those who have endured the rigours of batting at this level in the first instance, and are able to speak from a lot of experience.
I don't think that it bodes well for us if, as a few people have posted from their own observations (not only in this match but on other occasions) that, heads have dropped and the players' body language tends to indicate a lack of motivation.
I have not witnessed it myself, but if this is the case then we are rapidly sliding down the slippery pole to an unwelcome place in the County Championship.
An excellent post Grizz and not just because you named me in it. I also agree with what OB has said.
The views put forward by Grizz are essentially the same as mine re the team except for the fact he has put it far more eloquently than I ever could.
Onwards and upwards from here.
The views put forward by Grizz are essentially the same as mine re the team except for the fact he has put it far more eloquently than I ever could.
Onwards and upwards from here.
I have a good deal of sympathy for ob's points. I would add a few thoughts. One is that some players become "local" by adoption (Bill Alley was, in my view, a prime example of that). Second, young players need to be carefully nurtured - in my view, it is unlikely to do much good to throw too many of them in at the deep end all at the same time. Third, we all want whatever team is chosen to play to their full potential: last year, I felt that the team was more than the sum of the parts and that we over-achieved; this year, there have been several occasions when - with some honorable exceptions - the team appears (for reasons which I could not begin to guess) to have under-performed.
By the way, it is currently raining in Birmingham.
By the way, it is currently raining in Birmingham.
Quote:GrockleQuote:AGod
The question is, though, to what extent has having a long tail encouraged opposing bowlers and/or increased the pressure on our top 7?
Nobody is pretending that numbers 8 and 9 were reeling off tons last season but I cannot remember a season in which 8-11 have contributed so few runs... Not even in the dark days of Div Two with Mark Garaway.
Are you honestly serious?
Do you really not understand how daft that sounds?
THE TAIL IS IMMATERIAL WHEN YOUR FRONT SEVEN CAN'T GET THE SCORE OVER 200 UNLESS THEIR CAPTAIN SCORES OVER 50
The tail means nothing. They aren't "putting pressure" on the front end - which theory book did you find that one in?
Three of our front end could not bat their way out of a paper bag at the moment in Championship matches.
Look THERE for your problems.
Please stop trying to blame it on our number 9 10 and 11 as if they hold the key to our batting woes because they can't bat - what cock eyed logic is that?
It's technique. It's a lack of belief. It's possibly too much releiance on their batting talisman Marcus.
Believe me AG IT ISN'T the fact that Steve Kirby is at 10 or Charl is at 11!!
Charl was at 11 last year!!
Get your flaming calculator out and work out how many runs the tail made in games last season. if it isn't more than 100 runs in every innings then this year THEY AREN'T THE PROBLEM!!
Do me a favour at least and lock this particular bandwagon of yours in a very dark isolated garage and leave it there.
Sorry Grockle, but this is manifest nonsense. They are NOT immaterial. Even if the top 7 only score 190 between them, the final four are still NOT immaterial because 10 more runs gets us an extra bonus point.
And if that 190 from the top 7 is actually not a bad score for the conditions (as, for example, it was not at Hove) then extra runs from the lower order CAN tip the balance in a tight contest.
I believe that starting the season with Mendis and the 3 non-batting pacemen probably did have some sort of effect on the top 7... making them anxious by putting extra responsibility on them. I cannot prove it, of course, but neither can you disprove it.
As for Andy Hurry, CP, I'm not surprised that he was not included as somebody that could provide particular guidance to the batsmen as to how to build a first-class innings because, to the best of my knowledge, Mr Hurry has never himself built one. Rose, Cook and Tresco have built very many of them.
My impression - which may be wrong - has always been that Mr Hurry's primary responsibilities lie in the area of motivation and fitness.
My impression - which may be wrong - has always been that Mr Hurry's primary responsibilities lie in the area of motivation and fitness.
"last year, I felt that the team was more than the sum of the parts and that we over-achieved."
I would agree with this.
I'm not sure I agree that we are "well placed," in the CC, though unless by that, Wickham, you mean "about where we deserve to be placed," and I don't believe this was what you meant.
The main worry for me is the very first CC game after another burst of T20... will it be yet another occasion where we fail to transition between formats?
In theory, that we have five home games to go vs three away games should be in our favour, given that the new ball bowling has been massively unproductive away from Taunton.
Then again, we've had 3 washouts from 3 at home in T20.. and another one seems to be threatening tomorrow, so we will certainly need to hope for better weather if we want home games to be advantageous as opposed to disadvantageous (which they would be if the SW has worse weather than other parts of the country.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:10:01:35 by AGod.
I would agree with this.
I'm not sure I agree that we are "well placed," in the CC, though unless by that, Wickham, you mean "about where we deserve to be placed," and I don't believe this was what you meant.
The main worry for me is the very first CC game after another burst of T20... will it be yet another occasion where we fail to transition between formats?
In theory, that we have five home games to go vs three away games should be in our favour, given that the new ball bowling has been massively unproductive away from Taunton.
Then again, we've had 3 washouts from 3 at home in T20.. and another one seems to be threatening tomorrow, so we will certainly need to hope for better weather if we want home games to be advantageous as opposed to disadvantageous (which they would be if the SW has worse weather than other parts of the country.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:10:01:35 by AGod.
Something elst that might need some attention is our inability to take early wickets this season.1st wicket partnerships against us in the CC have been;
6,93,136,181,4,42,71,89,1,201,56,37 and 202.
An average of over 86 for the 1st wicket?
6,93,136,181,4,42,71,89,1,201,56,37 and 202.
An average of over 86 for the 1st wicket?
Well said Grockle, there is far to much focus and finger pointing towards the tail. The problem is, no question the front end. Emotions run high because we care. It hurts supporters as much as players when we are subjected to these abysmal performances. For goodness sake we are not talking about losing by a couple of wickets, or minimum runs, we are talking huge!
I know certain people have their favorites and don't like to hear criticism, however we need to face facts in that some "well established" are struggling and therefore their place in the team should be questioned.
I know certain people have their favorites and don't like to hear criticism, however we need to face facts in that some "well established" are struggling and therefore their place in the team should be questioned.
nellie - as I posted yesterday in the five away games, it is 122!!!!!!!
Statistically Kirby has done very, very well. But he and Willow appear to have failed comprehensively at the start of innings away from Taunton.
Folks will say stats don't tell the whole story etc, but Andy Hurry has also been repatedly quoted saying things like "We did not hit the right areas with the new ball," and one assumes that Hurry is watching rather than looking at stats.
Statistically Kirby has done very, very well. But he and Willow appear to have failed comprehensively at the start of innings away from Taunton.
Folks will say stats don't tell the whole story etc, but Andy Hurry has also been repatedly quoted saying things like "We did not hit the right areas with the new ball," and one assumes that Hurry is watching rather than looking at stats.
I am not a Compton fan but I want to add that the positive out of this game has been HIM.
Hopefully he will be encouraged to continue this vein going forward and hopefully others will follow.
I too am a believer that your tail should be able to at least hold a bat but our batters are that far out of nick we cant be looking at the tail too much here.
Hopefully he will be encouraged to continue this vein going forward and hopefully others will follow.
I too am a believer that your tail should be able to at least hold a bat but our batters are that far out of nick we cant be looking at the tail too much here.
It's good to be able to wake up in the morning, breathe in the fresh air of another day, marvel at the beauty of the world around us and thank our lucky stars we live in country where freedom is speech is partly tolerated.
Let's not rip ourselves and others to shreds over a game of bat and ball, let's just enjoy it for what it is and accept the rough with the smooth, warts and all.
We've been outplayed, it happens, even England beat Wales in rugby on the odd occasion, as Esther would say, that's life.
Perspective boys and girls.
Let's not rip ourselves and others to shreds over a game of bat and ball, let's just enjoy it for what it is and accept the rough with the smooth, warts and all.
We've been outplayed, it happens, even England beat Wales in rugby on the odd occasion, as Esther would say, that's life.
Perspective boys and girls.
But that's the problem, Scotsman!!!
Yes, you could turn round and drop Buttler or Hildreth BUT do we think Barrow or Thornely are particulary more likely to score more runs than Buttler or Hildreth in the average match? If not, what would we gain by such a switch?
That's why I say drop Hussain instead. Pick either an extra specialist batsman or somebody like Craig M. There is every logical reason to suppose that any of those guys would make more runs in an average game than Hussain.
I'm NOT saying that the batsmen should not be blamed nor that the tail should be blamed more or even equally. What I'm trying to look at it is most likely routes for improvement.
YES we can just HOPE that guys like Buttler and Hildreth pull out of their slumps. We can work with them on their "mental approach," though quite how this can happen successfully in between T20 slogathons, I struggle to see. Perhaps we will (or should) withdraw Hildreth from T20 to give these sesssions with Rose/Cook more chance of succeeding? But hope isn't a strategy and hard work does not have a guarantee of a short-term pay-off.
We have Kartik now. So why can't Pete be the third seamer, at least until Alf is fit (which might be nore more than one CC game away)? If you play Gregory and Craig M that's two other guys that can also bowl seam-up too. So you've got three main seamers, two other seamers, a main spinner and a supplementary spinner. How many more bowlers do we need?
Yes, you could turn round and drop Buttler or Hildreth BUT do we think Barrow or Thornely are particulary more likely to score more runs than Buttler or Hildreth in the average match? If not, what would we gain by such a switch?
That's why I say drop Hussain instead. Pick either an extra specialist batsman or somebody like Craig M. There is every logical reason to suppose that any of those guys would make more runs in an average game than Hussain.
I'm NOT saying that the batsmen should not be blamed nor that the tail should be blamed more or even equally. What I'm trying to look at it is most likely routes for improvement.
YES we can just HOPE that guys like Buttler and Hildreth pull out of their slumps. We can work with them on their "mental approach," though quite how this can happen successfully in between T20 slogathons, I struggle to see. Perhaps we will (or should) withdraw Hildreth from T20 to give these sesssions with Rose/Cook more chance of succeeding? But hope isn't a strategy and hard work does not have a guarantee of a short-term pay-off.
We have Kartik now. So why can't Pete be the third seamer, at least until Alf is fit (which might be nore more than one CC game away)? If you play Gregory and Craig M that's two other guys that can also bowl seam-up too. So you've got three main seamers, two other seamers, a main spinner and a supplementary spinner. How many more bowlers do we need?
All excellent points you make AG....I accept that here are no guarantees..However it is not satisfactory to just allow things to move along without someone making the difficult call. Bringing in inexperienced players will not turn the team into world beaters overnight, but it will send a clear message that places in the team are not set in tablets of stone! Lets use the slogfest to blood youngsters, if they play well leave them in for the 40 over game....But the bottom line is - Take non performers out before the damage is irreversable
Warwickshire have pulled off a significant coup with the signing of West Indies batsman for the last two months of the season.
The left-hander, 36, is expected to arrive in around three weeks and should therefore be available for the final six LV= County Championship games. [www.ecb.co.uk]
That could be a good signing for the last six matches if they are still in with a chance of winning the Championship.
The left-hander, 36, is expected to arrive in around three weeks and should therefore be available for the final six LV= County Championship games. [www.ecb.co.uk]
That could be a good signing for the last six matches if they are still in with a chance of winning the Championship.
What a shame out for 95.
The weakness shows again nobody can stay with Willoughby.
The weakness shows again nobody can stay with Willoughby.
Having watched the match for the last three days to say I amdisappointed would be an understatement. Can't really say anymore, but read Paul Bolton in the Daily T that about sums it up.
The worrying thing is apparent lack of discipline and fight with the bat.
The comments from those that were there that the team looked down from the start might also be a worry?
However, I assume that they mean that the team looked down from the first ball in the field, in which case they were probably down because they knew they'd made a rubbish total for the conditions and/or because they had been upbraided by Brian.
I suppose the very poor track record with the new ball on their travels cannot have helped morale that much, either?
The comments from those that were there that the team looked down from the start might also be a worry?
However, I assume that they mean that the team looked down from the first ball in the field, in which case they were probably down because they knew they'd made a rubbish total for the conditions and/or because they had been upbraided by Brian.
I suppose the very poor track record with the new ball on their travels cannot have helped morale that much, either?
Notwithstanding all that has been said about poor performance I really wonder how much last season is providing a hangover. I think we did over achieve but how many counties would have loved to have been 2nd in each competition. The problem was that we lost 2 0f them by a technical separation rather than a clear cut margin. This I believe leads to 2 mindsets for the players. One is that we HAVE to win something this year and the other is the subconscious feel that just a very tiny step is needed to do it. When early on the wheels fall off it becomes difficult to refocus the mind. Good players don't become bad overnight unless they are nearltyat the end of a career. Realistically we have a good chance of still taking 2 trophies. Iknow the CC is the holy grail...I desperately want us to win it.. but life is life.
I always thought that there might be a significant hangover, largely because the players would have been gutted at the end of last season.. when you've fought so hard with largely the same group of players (so getting no real rest) and then come up empty-handed, I imagine it's massively hard to take... difficult to get yourself "back up," for another long slog.
IN addition to the above, it must be possible that Hildreth is feeling extra down because his annus mirabilis did not lead to full England recognition?
It seems that Craig went into a funk after being sent back to SCCC last season by England.. it's not difficult to imagine guys that thought they were in with a serious chance being down when the chance does not come?
It seems that Craig went into a funk after being sent back to SCCC last season by England.. it's not difficult to imagine guys that thought they were in with a serious chance being down when the chance does not come?
If I had time I'd stick a poll up to find out how many other people on here work by this strange theory you have AG that the quality of the batting at 9,10 and 11 determine the batting prowess of a first class county side.
The theory that the front 7 are so delicate that they are constantly worried about leaving the accumulation of runs to Gemaal Hussain at number 8, so much so that they fail to keep their wickets and are constantly getting out because our tail is weak - that seems to be the gist.
And you are serious about this aren't you? Really?
Read it through carefully just so that I can check you really believe this to be the main problem we have...
If you still believe this then can I suggest you look back over the many very cogent arguments put forward on the Warwickshire thread relating to what our REAL batting issues are and try to ease yourself out of this delusion.
It is probably one of the daftest theories I've seen on here in a considerable numnber of years.
The theory that the front 7 are so delicate that they are constantly worried about leaving the accumulation of runs to Gemaal Hussain at number 8, so much so that they fail to keep their wickets and are constantly getting out because our tail is weak - that seems to be the gist.
And you are serious about this aren't you? Really?
Read it through carefully just so that I can check you really believe this to be the main problem we have...
If you still believe this then can I suggest you look back over the many very cogent arguments put forward on the Warwickshire thread relating to what our REAL batting issues are and try to ease yourself out of this delusion.
It is probably one of the daftest theories I've seen on here in a considerable numnber of years.
Reading comprehension problems? Where did I say it was the main determinant of batting prowess? We all know that most of the batsmen have done an insufficiently good job, overall. I also did not say this was the only or main problem that we have. But I do think it's the one that is easiest to correct... pick fewer of the non batsmen!
The tail IS important, it does count, it's not immaterial. Have you not noticed various other teams putting up long rearguard actions? The likes of Ryan Sidebottom? That guy, Arif, for Sussex? Can you really not see the value of such contributions?
Do you really not understand that not only you lose potential runs from the lower order batsmen themselves if the tail are not scoring, but that you also lose the ability to score runs from the other end if a decent batsman - such as Pete - is marooned with them.
I've already listed on the other thread the four occasions when Pete was not out - the tail folded on each occasion.
I suspect there are other times when he felt he had little choice other than to slog and got out because he was stuck with them too.
Perhaps this means Pete should be promoted up the order a bit?
The tail IS important, it does count, it's not immaterial. Have you not noticed various other teams putting up long rearguard actions? The likes of Ryan Sidebottom? That guy, Arif, for Sussex? Can you really not see the value of such contributions?
Do you really not understand that not only you lose potential runs from the lower order batsmen themselves if the tail are not scoring, but that you also lose the ability to score runs from the other end if a decent batsman - such as Pete - is marooned with them.
I've already listed on the other thread the four occasions when Pete was not out - the tail folded on each occasion.
I suspect there are other times when he felt he had little choice other than to slog and got out because he was stuck with them too.
Perhaps this means Pete should be promoted up the order a bit?
Met Office forecasting another total T20 washout for us.. so perhaps Brian and Jimmy and Marcus can get to work with the serious business of trying to get these guys to bat long, rather than having to worry about hit and giggle.
Your stats don't prove that the tail folded because there is not enough there to compare the performance with. It's your definition of 'folding' which I suggest is open for verymuch debate
Your premis was that the front end is affected by a weak tail
Now you are saying that the tail is important to get the front end out of the mire (never been a point of argument).
Two entirely different statements.
Can our tail get us 150 runs? No
Is our front end failing because our tail can't get us 150 runs. No
Should 9, 10 and jack be expected to provide the winning margin for a first class county side with the bat? No
Would the side be better if we batted to number 11? Yes (as long as these people were also championship bowlers)
On your basis the stats suggest that the first person you should drop is not Gemaal Hussain but Charl Willoughby. their Championship figures are not that different but their batting prowess definitely has a gap between it.
You want to sort out our dearth of runs? Go and sign Ryan Sidebottom and see if that solves the problem...bet ya it doesn't.
You want to sort the batting out?
START WITH THE BATSMEN AND STOP LOOKING FOR SCAPEGOATS AMONG PLAYERS YOU PERSONALLY DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE
Your premis was that the front end is affected by a weak tail
Now you are saying that the tail is important to get the front end out of the mire (never been a point of argument).
Two entirely different statements.
Can our tail get us 150 runs? No
Is our front end failing because our tail can't get us 150 runs. No
Should 9, 10 and jack be expected to provide the winning margin for a first class county side with the bat? No
Would the side be better if we batted to number 11? Yes (as long as these people were also championship bowlers)
On your basis the stats suggest that the first person you should drop is not Gemaal Hussain but Charl Willoughby. their Championship figures are not that different but their batting prowess definitely has a gap between it.
You want to sort out our dearth of runs? Go and sign Ryan Sidebottom and see if that solves the problem...bet ya it doesn't.
You want to sort the batting out?
START WITH THE BATSMEN AND STOP LOOKING FOR SCAPEGOATS AMONG PLAYERS YOU PERSONALLY DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE
Wrong about the scapegoating, Grockle.. I'm actually NOT blaming the players concerned, I'm blaming the team selection that leads to such an unbalanced team. I did not expect Kirby, Hussain, Willow or (earlier in the season) Mendis to do very much with the bat. Looking at their records (for the three pacemen) and unfamiliar conditions (for Mendis) it was probably not reasonable to expect them to do much? But team selectors should have been clued into this, IMO, and anticipated a problem. Kartik I do expect to contribute with the bat. No he did not do it at Edgbaston but that's only one game... he made at least two and, I think, maybe three 50s last season so it's reasonable to expect him to contribute with the bat.
You are also trying to artificially divide my argument. Part of the argument has always been about runs being scored by the last few directly and part of it has always been about supporting a batsman that might be left with them. I'm sure I've made that clear before.
And, in answer to your point, if we can actually get Alf fit after that cursed T20 in India, and IF Charl does not pick up somewhat with the new ball, then I WOULD consider replacing Charl AND Gemaal, leaving a main bowling attack of Kirby, Alf, Pete and Kartik with support from Arul and whichever (or both) of Gregory or Craig M were also in the team.
However, at the moment with a bowling average of 44 and batting average of 6 then Hussain is the outstanding candidate to be dropped unless you count Jos.... but I'm not sure if Craig K will be available for the next CC game or will it clash with England ODIs? If so, we'd have no keeper if we drop Jos?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:13:26:36 by AGod.
You are also trying to artificially divide my argument. Part of the argument has always been about runs being scored by the last few directly and part of it has always been about supporting a batsman that might be left with them. I'm sure I've made that clear before.
And, in answer to your point, if we can actually get Alf fit after that cursed T20 in India, and IF Charl does not pick up somewhat with the new ball, then I WOULD consider replacing Charl AND Gemaal, leaving a main bowling attack of Kirby, Alf, Pete and Kartik with support from Arul and whichever (or both) of Gregory or Craig M were also in the team.
However, at the moment with a bowling average of 44 and batting average of 6 then Hussain is the outstanding candidate to be dropped unless you count Jos.... but I'm not sure if Craig K will be available for the next CC game or will it clash with England ODIs? If so, we'd have no keeper if we drop Jos?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:13:26:36 by AGod.
And one final point on this ..... now that Kartik is here there is probably a point in the lower order occupying the crease even if they are not scoring runs and even if there is not a batsman at the other end.... as taking up time can create extra wear on the pitch for our spinner.
Charl's averages are 36.37 and 2.37
Slightly better bowling average but much inferior batting
Hmmm swings and roundabouts.
Huge differences in age and developmental potential? GH gets it surely?
Highest batting scores of 42 v 14? GH again
Left v Right? CW probably
I think statistically the choice would still be GH over CW under the rules of your premis.
Because if you want a sticker....well it ain't Charl.
With reference to the tail in the early games they did make provision for the issues of their relative weakness.
They picked the supposed best First Division batting line-up from 1 to 7 and expected it to perform.
It hasn't and so the relative strength of the last three batsmen is smoke and mirrors in relation to the real problem because they do not come into any equation until that major problem is sorted out.
It's very difficult for even the BEST tail in the world to build up a defensible total when they start with sod all!!
You also seem to have artificially added some comment about an "artificial division" in some argument which probably makes sense to you. Hope so anyway.
Slightly better bowling average but much inferior batting
Hmmm swings and roundabouts.
Huge differences in age and developmental potential? GH gets it surely?
Highest batting scores of 42 v 14? GH again
Left v Right? CW probably
I think statistically the choice would still be GH over CW under the rules of your premis.
Because if you want a sticker....well it ain't Charl.
With reference to the tail in the early games they did make provision for the issues of their relative weakness.
They picked the supposed best First Division batting line-up from 1 to 7 and expected it to perform.
It hasn't and so the relative strength of the last three batsmen is smoke and mirrors in relation to the real problem because they do not come into any equation until that major problem is sorted out.
It's very difficult for even the BEST tail in the world to build up a defensible total when they start with sod all!!
You also seem to have artificially added some comment about an "artificial division" in some argument which probably makes sense to you. Hope so anyway.
On the SCCC averages, Grockle, I have compared 2011 SCCC batting with 2010 SCCC batting for the batsmen and for the bowlers... you might be surprised.....(clue, improvement from Tres + improvement from Compton > deterioration from Hildreth)
(and yes, I think I've agreed with you that, on my premise, Charl would be a theoretical candidate to be dropped.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:13:54:14 by AGod.
(and yes, I think I've agreed with you that, on my premise, Charl would be a theoretical candidate to be dropped.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:06:23:13:54:14 by AGod.
We mauy get away with it tomorrow night but the forecasters probably need to be out by around 2 hours with the prediction of when the rain arrives AG.
That would be 4 in a row, with the Middx game which has taken place at Taunton just making it before rain arrived if Im not mistaken.
What with Marcus's 2 dismissals at Edgbaston, a couple of decisions V Hildy and all the rain we aren't having much luck at present.
I believe in this eveing out over a period so maybe we are due some in the next couple of months.
That would be 4 in a row, with the Middx game which has taken place at Taunton just making it before rain arrived if Im not mistaken.
What with Marcus's 2 dismissals at Edgbaston, a couple of decisions V Hildy and all the rain we aren't having much luck at present.
I believe in this eveing out over a period so maybe we are due some in the next couple of months.
Personally, Ronnie, I just hope the rain stays away for the final 5 home CC games... that's what I'm keeping my fingers really crossed for.
Don't just blame the players, it's the management's job to pick and motivate them!
I'd send them on a PR course.
I'd send them on a PR course.
That's my point, really, Botham. That's what has stuck in my craw.
Middle order not doing well enough? True, but I would not say management should have seen that coming. Would others?
New ball bowling not doing well enough? True, but I would not say management should have seen that coming. Would others?
Very little in the way of either runs or crease occupation down the order? True, but quite a few of us saw that one coming a mile off in the winter!
Middle order not doing well enough? True, but I would not say management should have seen that coming. Would others?
New ball bowling not doing well enough? True, but I would not say management should have seen that coming. Would others?
Very little in the way of either runs or crease occupation down the order? True, but quite a few of us saw that one coming a mile off in the winter!
A.God.
Point 1 I would say that they should have & I have consistently said so.
Point 2 Is fair enough & especially disappointing given that the majority of the investment went in that direction.
Point 3 Absolutely right and very likely from way back last winter.
Overall, your post reflects my opinion too.
Point 1 I would say that they should have & I have consistently said so.
Point 2 Is fair enough & especially disappointing given that the majority of the investment went in that direction.
Point 3 Absolutely right and very likely from way back last winter.
Overall, your post reflects my opinion too.
The thing that really puzzles me is the new ball bowling
If the bowlers were just a load of rubbish, like Rodders claimed, then teams would be taking us for 600 every other week -- but they are not
Instead teams are getting off to great starts and then the seamers are fighting back with an old ball -- it almost defies belief how much more successful we've been with an old ball than a new one
Keith's done superb work with his graph today, so I won't ask him to examine whether this is a pattern that most bowling attacks in Div One are experiencing -- I will have a look into it myself tomorrow
If the bowlers were just a load of rubbish, like Rodders claimed, then teams would be taking us for 600 every other week -- but they are not
Instead teams are getting off to great starts and then the seamers are fighting back with an old ball -- it almost defies belief how much more successful we've been with an old ball than a new one
Keith's done superb work with his graph today, so I won't ask him to examine whether this is a pattern that most bowling attacks in Div One are experiencing -- I will have a look into it myself tomorrow
Crease occupation is a problem right across the order not just "down" it.
In fact I would suggest (though please lets not have stats about it) that crease occupation after number three is out may very well increase as you move towards Steve and Charl. I don't think James, Jos, Lewis or even Craig have spent a lot of time in the middle across all their games.
Management I'm sure thought they had covered your final point by assembling a batting order that should have compensated for it. You call it unbalanced in hindsight but I would imagine they saw it as toploaded in the front six to compensate for issues (if they arrived) in the back end at the start of the season.
But they also gambled on (or under financed) cover for that order to enable people with poor form to be replaced. The youth policy was a strategy we nearly all called for and have since complained about. I'm not sure whether it has paid off or not - we probably won't know for a while yet. Ben and Zander were not thrown away, they chose to leave (with no impediment from the club). We've yet to have enough to really comment on that as a management policy who went with youth.
To be honest we all thought the purchase of Mendis was a good move. We expected more from Charl and some of us expected less from Steve (me included). The lack of use of young spin still baffles me - why one of our successful winter bowlers has not been used when the international purchase looked poor? Well someone must have a theory. That is the area I struggle to work out. Hussain is not a new ball bowler...but presently neither is CW and that was a big part of last year.
The predicted batting has not happened. The predicited bowling has a different dynamic.
Management's job? Get this sorted. The player's job? Listen and work hard to get it right. It's a partnership if this is a strong club and we all hope that is the case.
Personally I think members expected far more than was realistic at the start of this season, especially in the longer format and then criticised the side for not living up to their expectations. There was always the possibility that this was going to happen. Maybe the bosses were willing to accept it.
What they would not have predicited was the very poor form of players who had given every indication that form was not going to be the issue. It is very difficult to stop the train once it has started rolling down the hill and once the season is off and running there is really not a lot of space to replan.
In fact I would suggest (though please lets not have stats about it) that crease occupation after number three is out may very well increase as you move towards Steve and Charl. I don't think James, Jos, Lewis or even Craig have spent a lot of time in the middle across all their games.
Management I'm sure thought they had covered your final point by assembling a batting order that should have compensated for it. You call it unbalanced in hindsight but I would imagine they saw it as toploaded in the front six to compensate for issues (if they arrived) in the back end at the start of the season.
But they also gambled on (or under financed) cover for that order to enable people with poor form to be replaced. The youth policy was a strategy we nearly all called for and have since complained about. I'm not sure whether it has paid off or not - we probably won't know for a while yet. Ben and Zander were not thrown away, they chose to leave (with no impediment from the club). We've yet to have enough to really comment on that as a management policy who went with youth.
To be honest we all thought the purchase of Mendis was a good move. We expected more from Charl and some of us expected less from Steve (me included). The lack of use of young spin still baffles me - why one of our successful winter bowlers has not been used when the international purchase looked poor? Well someone must have a theory. That is the area I struggle to work out. Hussain is not a new ball bowler...but presently neither is CW and that was a big part of last year.
The predicted batting has not happened. The predicited bowling has a different dynamic.
Management's job? Get this sorted. The player's job? Listen and work hard to get it right. It's a partnership if this is a strong club and we all hope that is the case.
Personally I think members expected far more than was realistic at the start of this season, especially in the longer format and then criticised the side for not living up to their expectations. There was always the possibility that this was going to happen. Maybe the bosses were willing to accept it.
What they would not have predicited was the very poor form of players who had given every indication that form was not going to be the issue. It is very difficult to stop the train once it has started rolling down the hill and once the season is off and running there is really not a lot of space to replan.
"But they also gambled on (or under financed) cover for that order to enable people with poor form to be replaced. The youth policy was a strategy we nearly all called for and have since complained about. I'm not sure whether it has paid off or not - we probably won't know for a while yet. Ben and Zander were not thrown away, they chose to leave (with no impediment from the club). We've yet to have enough to really comment on that as a management policy who went with youth."
I certainly agree that we won't be able to judge the 'all youth as reserves,' policy for some time UNLESS of course we contrive to get ourselves relegated this season -- that really would put a big question mark against it
If we stay in Div One, I'd suggest we probably won't be able to judge it until at least the end of next season -- it will all be about how well the youngsters develop
I have to say thought that I've not been guilty of calling the line-up unbalanced with hindsight -- I'd said in the winter it might well be an issue --- we debated this with you saying that meant I had no faith in the top six and me saying that I did but that all top sixes fail at times and that if the top half underperform then we would have a problem
In reality, I'd think the top six overall have done worse than either one of us would have imagined?
What I had been assuming - and probably management did too - is that the additions from Gloucs would add potency with the ball and that this would counterbalance the loss of run scoring - In reality that's been half true in that Kirby has added potency - at least with the old ball, but Hussain has not, really done so --- at the same time Charl has become less potent too
I certainly agree that we won't be able to judge the 'all youth as reserves,' policy for some time UNLESS of course we contrive to get ourselves relegated this season -- that really would put a big question mark against it
If we stay in Div One, I'd suggest we probably won't be able to judge it until at least the end of next season -- it will all be about how well the youngsters develop
I have to say thought that I've not been guilty of calling the line-up unbalanced with hindsight -- I'd said in the winter it might well be an issue --- we debated this with you saying that meant I had no faith in the top six and me saying that I did but that all top sixes fail at times and that if the top half underperform then we would have a problem
In reality, I'd think the top six overall have done worse than either one of us would have imagined?
What I had been assuming - and probably management did too - is that the additions from Gloucs would add potency with the ball and that this would counterbalance the loss of run scoring - In reality that's been half true in that Kirby has added potency - at least with the old ball, but Hussain has not, really done so --- at the same time Charl has become less potent too
Grockle I would like to ask you a question.
When you say Zander “chose to leave” where did your information come from did it come from the club or elsewhere, I am only asking for my own piece of mind.
I do have a reason for asking.
When you say Zander “chose to leave” where did your information come from did it come from the club or elsewhere, I am only asking for my own piece of mind.
I do have a reason for asking.
Rose said so.
He didn't expand any further than that. I don't think the contract at Surrey was initially longer (though they probably will increase it) no idea about relative salaries but we didn't force him out and he was under contract so...he chose not to continue that and go to Surrey.
Ben's situation was that he wanted more than we were willing to give, he asked to look around, we had no problem and Notts offered more. He then chose to leave.
He didn't expand any further than that. I don't think the contract at Surrey was initially longer (though they probably will increase it) no idea about relative salaries but we didn't force him out and he was under contract so...he chose not to continue that and go to Surrey.
Ben's situation was that he wanted more than we were willing to give, he asked to look around, we had no problem and Notts offered more. He then chose to leave.
Thanks Grockle.
I think Ben Phillips reason was understandable with Kirby and Hussain arrival.
I can’t go into details why I wanted the reason for Zanders departure confirmed, I couldn’t remember what was said by the club (Mr Rose) when it was announced.
Mr Rose said at the AGM two years I remember that.
I think Ben Phillips reason was understandable with Kirby and Hussain arrival.
I can’t go into details why I wanted the reason for Zanders departure confirmed, I couldn’t remember what was said by the club (Mr Rose) when it was announced.
Mr Rose said at the AGM two years I remember that.
I'm not sure we wanted him to go - I got some of that as well.
But we seem to have thought enough of him not to stand in his way or make it awkward
Maybe we had no cover for him because we did not plan to lose him? Who knows (though we probably had time to sort it and chose not to)
But we seem to have thought enough of him not to stand in his way or make it awkward
Maybe we had no cover for him because we did not plan to lose him? Who knows (though we probably had time to sort it and chose not to)
Mike,
From Grockle's report of the Club's AGM back in January, when a question was asked from the floor:-
"What happened to ZdB? Rosey sees that as a good question. His role was a real contrast to other players in the team and it was an exceptional role. But cricket has altered in its format. One of the biggest pressures is financial on the counties. Clubs are getting more for getting 9 qualified England players on the field. The pressure is relenting and it gets more difficult. BR looked at what we had and what was available and the equation was becoming difficult. Asking ZdB what he wanted to do for their own career and his family? We took a decision that the talent would soon make its mark. We loved him and his family and he moved on with our best wishes. We have an exciting team and we were willing to take the risk."
Hope this helps somewhat.
From Grockle's report of the Club's AGM back in January, when a question was asked from the floor:-
"What happened to ZdB? Rosey sees that as a good question. His role was a real contrast to other players in the team and it was an exceptional role. But cricket has altered in its format. One of the biggest pressures is financial on the counties. Clubs are getting more for getting 9 qualified England players on the field. The pressure is relenting and it gets more difficult. BR looked at what we had and what was available and the equation was becoming difficult. Asking ZdB what he wanted to do for their own career and his family? We took a decision that the talent would soon make its mark. We loved him and his family and he moved on with our best wishes. We have an exciting team and we were willing to take the risk."
Hope this helps somewhat.
I think so Clarence, thanks.
But your last line says something to me.
We have an exciting team and we were willing to take the risk.
But your last line says something to me.
We have an exciting team and we were willing to take the risk.
Yes that was what he said (though I think 'relenting' should read 'unrelenting').
The thing Rose didn't say is whether the discussion was prompted by the club or the player. He wouldn't be drawn on that aspect at all.
No impression that had Zander decided to stay we would have made it difficult but the impression that he probably would have found himself not picked where a younger player could do the job. Seems honest.
As it is and a little like Keith Parsons (who took the alternative decision and stayed) he probably would not have been over taken given the events as they have panned out. But he chose to go (and I think I probably would have as well).
The thing Rose didn't say is whether the discussion was prompted by the club or the player. He wouldn't be drawn on that aspect at all.
No impression that had Zander decided to stay we would have made it difficult but the impression that he probably would have found himself not picked where a younger player could do the job. Seems honest.
As it is and a little like Keith Parsons (who took the alternative decision and stayed) he probably would not have been over taken given the events as they have panned out. But he chose to go (and I think I probably would have as well).
Grockle AGM report is like having minutes of a meeting.
I will refer back to that as a reminder of what was said.
Very often in life you can learn more from what is not said than what is said.
One day we might know if somebody writes a book.
I will refer back to that as a reminder of what was said.
Very often in life you can learn more from what is not said than what is said.
One day we might know if somebody writes a book.
In an ideal world you want to have some experienced cover for the young players to actually compete against to be first cab off the rank -- but the issue then is that you do need the selectors to judge the competition directly on what is currently in front of their eyes rather than going for the safe option and just automatically picking the experienced player when the need for a change arises
Even you could write a book Grockle on things you have heard and can't say.
we just aswell start from where we are.
JB was dropped for not scoring runs.(OK second year blues, yorkshire dropped lyth who is a very good bat).
Either CK comes in for him or another batsman comes in for CK if he is away.JH, would you drop him? Big decesion. Or would you give him a warning?
You could drop arul down but who is making the runs in the second eleven to replace as an opener?
I think it is more a problem with the batting strategy. They think they can bat at a higher rate than the oppo but haven't realised that that isn't going to work given the pitches etc.
also the bowling line up hasn't worked. If, as people have said, willow's batting has become more of a joke then i can't see how this would not have reflected itself in his bowling. think a bout shaking that up.
Concentrate on the CB40 and T20, any tournament win would be a boost. But as for CC1, get the middle order to bat better by realising the nature of the pitch/situation.
otherwise if you are argue for wholesale changes then say them.
JB was dropped for not scoring runs.(OK second year blues, yorkshire dropped lyth who is a very good bat).
Either CK comes in for him or another batsman comes in for CK if he is away.JH, would you drop him? Big decesion. Or would you give him a warning?
You could drop arul down but who is making the runs in the second eleven to replace as an opener?
I think it is more a problem with the batting strategy. They think they can bat at a higher rate than the oppo but haven't realised that that isn't going to work given the pitches etc.
also the bowling line up hasn't worked. If, as people have said, willow's batting has become more of a joke then i can't see how this would not have reflected itself in his bowling. think a bout shaking that up.
Concentrate on the CB40 and T20, any tournament win would be a boost. But as for CC1, get the middle order to bat better by realising the nature of the pitch/situation.
otherwise if you are argue for wholesale changes then say them.
I think we shouldn't forget that the club is still looking at Mike Thornely in the 2nd XI, and that he is consistently scoring runs - 82 in the last innings of the latest game. Alex Barrow also got a 50, I think, and Jos got 40-odd. Chris Jones also scored some runs, 50 or so I think. So there are some other cabs waiting on the rank.
As for bowlers, I think Dibble deserves a first-class debut at some point. He has performed creditably in one-day matches at times this season. Meschede can bat and bowl, and there are also Waller and Dockrell as spin options. Waller has also shown this season that he could be a better option with the bat than anybody had previously thought (one double hundred and several other scores in the 20s to 40s).
I'm not saying throw all these guys in at once, but one here and there. As many have noted, Hussain could be replaced in the next few games, for example. But there remains the new-ball problem. If Charl was to be moved to first change, for example, then we're waiting for Alf to come back and partner Kirbs. Otherwise it would be Pete, Lewis or Dibble. Any thoughts?
Giving Pete a chance to open the bowling a couple of times might be worth a gamble. As our statisticians above have noted, things can't get much worse this season in terms of opposition opening partnerships, and who knows? With Pete fired up and steaming in they might get better ...
As for bowlers, I think Dibble deserves a first-class debut at some point. He has performed creditably in one-day matches at times this season. Meschede can bat and bowl, and there are also Waller and Dockrell as spin options. Waller has also shown this season that he could be a better option with the bat than anybody had previously thought (one double hundred and several other scores in the 20s to 40s).
I'm not saying throw all these guys in at once, but one here and there. As many have noted, Hussain could be replaced in the next few games, for example. But there remains the new-ball problem. If Charl was to be moved to first change, for example, then we're waiting for Alf to come back and partner Kirbs. Otherwise it would be Pete, Lewis or Dibble. Any thoughts?
Giving Pete a chance to open the bowling a couple of times might be worth a gamble. As our statisticians above have noted, things can't get much worse this season in terms of opposition opening partnerships, and who knows? With Pete fired up and steaming in they might get better ...
Who is this chap Chinaman? I have sympathy with a lot of what he says! Sign him on NOW!
On another note, here's what the skipper had to say about the defeat in Thursday's Guardian:
After that there is some more from MT about the middle order being "inexperienced". Read the article for yourself at:
The Guardian, 23/6/2011
Quote:The Guardian, June 23, 2011
"Rankin blew us away," Trescothick, the Somerset captain, said of the towering Irishman's first-innings bowling performance. "It was a really good spell of hostile fast bowling – right up there with anything I've faced this year – and it was too good for us.
"It's the best I've seen him bowl. He's up there in terms of pace, but it's his bounce that really causes the problems. And now he's swinging the ball, too. He hit me four times – that doesn't happen very often – and I couldn't pick him up. He's improved massively."
Ashley Giles, Warwickshire's director of cricket, appraised the 6ft 7in Rankin in more simple terms. "He's a big @#$%&," Giles said. "And facing him upsets teams. He has a presence about him and you can see them talking, and worrying, about him."
After that there is some more from MT about the middle order being "inexperienced". Read the article for yourself at:
The Guardian, 23/6/2011
It sounded like Rankin bowled well in the first innings.
But the game was not officially lost after one innings.
What about the second one?
But the game was not officially lost after one innings.
What about the second one?
And Giles is suggesting that our guys were cowed by their pacemen.... not good given that the pitch seemed, by most accounts, flat and slow.
Even in that first knock, well though it sounded Rankin bowled, he took four wickets, I think, so six others were dismissed by a different bowler.
Even in that first knock, well though it sounded Rankin bowled, he took four wickets, I think, so six others were dismissed by a different bowler.
Rankin is one of the 'young' Warwickshire players given an opportunity to mature through BEING PICKED REGULARLY for the first X1 - not getting instant success (he looked innocuous against us last year) - but my goodness - hasn't it paid off this year after a rather unsuccessful 2010. If only we were doing the same with our youngsters - only Gregory and Buttler really 'blooded' up until now. Maybe things will HAVE TO CHANGE for the rest of this season, which surely we can only treat as a formulative year, and hope for greater things in the CC in 2012.
I'd always thought Rankin was pretty profligate and ineffective, to be honest. I was shocked when he gave Banger a torrid time.
Still, it's no good simply observing (as the main reason for us losing the game) that he was too good for us in the first knock because the game has two innings - and he did not do very much in the second one.
It's possibly a matter of debate, Old Boy, as to how much Rankin has improved by playing for Warks vs how much he has improved by playing for Ireland... the Irish exposure may have also made a big difference to him.
Really hope Mr Dockrell can get back to 100% form and confidence wise, soon, so that we start to see him in serious first XI contention.
Still, it's no good simply observing (as the main reason for us losing the game) that he was too good for us in the first knock because the game has two innings - and he did not do very much in the second one.
It's possibly a matter of debate, Old Boy, as to how much Rankin has improved by playing for Warks vs how much he has improved by playing for Ireland... the Irish exposure may have also made a big difference to him.
Really hope Mr Dockrell can get back to 100% form and confidence wise, soon, so that we start to see him in serious first XI contention.
Woakes from the boundary to the C&W commentators said there was nothing in the pitch for the bowler at all.
We should not be being 'blown away' by bowlers of Rankin's stature if we have higher aspirations.
We should not be being 'blown away' by bowlers of Rankin's stature if we have higher aspirations.
Yep, he did. And three of our own bowlers told our own fans the same thing. I've not even read any complaints from the batsmen about the pitch, either. So I think we can take it as read that the pitch was probably not a million miles away from the kind of thing that people used to moan so much about at Taunton.
Still, it's possible, Grockle, that whilst Rankin has never been the type of bowler to cause that kind of trouble in the past, he may now be emerging as such a bowler and we might have been one of the first to suffer.
More worrying is the suggestion that we were physically cowed by him.... or indeed the Warks attack in general though, of course, we only have the word of the King of the Spain for that.
Still, it's possible, Grockle, that whilst Rankin has never been the type of bowler to cause that kind of trouble in the past, he may now be emerging as such a bowler and we might have been one of the first to suffer.
More worrying is the suggestion that we were physically cowed by him.... or indeed the Warks attack in general though, of course, we only have the word of the King of the Spain for that.
If Warwickshire are to be lauded for giving Rankin a chance to 'mature' through being picked regularly for the first team last year even though he looked innocuous (haven't looked at his stats for last season to see if the innocuous label is justified) then maybe Somerset should be doing the same with Hussain, a similar type of bowler height-wise if not in pure bulk.
2010 W Rankin county cricket.
9 matches 145.3 overs 22 wickets
Only played in nine county matches last season, his figures don’t look all that bad.
9 matches 145.3 overs 22 wickets
Only played in nine county matches last season, his figures don’t look all that bad.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Somerset News 24/7
More Somerset headlines
- MetroBank Game 3 - v Warks and a change of Weather
- Metro50 Game1 - Welcome to the next stage - Notts at Welbeck
- Blast Finals Day Semi 1 - It's Northants Again!!
- Blast Quarter Final Here We Go at Headingley
- Blast Game 12 - Simple Beat the Pears!!
- Women's Blast Game 12 - Fanx Tara Towie
- Blast Game 11 - Northants Part 2 - Gregory Back?
- Women's Blast Game 11 - Blazing Away\!!
- Blast Game 10 - Derby to the Wire as well
Somerset latest threads
- Two more years for Lewis
- MetroBank Game 3 - v Warks and a change of Weather
- Poll: 2026 Best Blast Player
- Poll: Best CC1 Player Part 1
- Metrobank 50 Game2 - Home Derby
- Members online forum - the future of SCCC
- Metro50 Game1 - Welcome to the next stage - Notts at Welbeck
- Blast Finals Day Semi 1 - It's Northants Again!!
- RIP the GREAT Gary Sobers
- Metro50 NOT "Developmental" by choice