Somerset
Regional AGM - Taunton Area
Media star spotted
By Grockle
November 24 2010
The last of the first round of regional stuff. Peter January (chairman) opens the proceedings. Roy Kerslake and Richard Gould are there along with Mary (as always) and Brian Daw the Regional Treasurer.
THE MEETING
The minutes were read as usual. There were no matters arising among the 30 odd people who were there. They'd put chairs out for about 10 times that many but it is a bit sparse on a rather cold night.
Mary gave her report - excellent season of brilliant cricket. Taunton raised over £9000 for the club. The sponsored walk raised a ninth of that.
The display of the hotel idea were out for supporters - I now see what people mean about it's sort of early 70's feel to it.
The Treasurer's report was next - income was down because of the lack of Christman car parking revenue. It was mentioned more than once and Mr Gould was thanked more than once for the loss of income. The club got £4000 and the Children's Hospice got £2000. There was also mention of the phenomenal response to the Pakistan Relief fund which raised £2,580.
Chairman's Report
Peter congratulated the players and the club for their performances and especially the efforts under great pressure from media at the Pakistan game which the club dealt with in an impressive manner. The first committee meeting of the Taunton area took place after the main AGM meeting. The regions were conscious that they were trying to collect money in a time of recession and while the Hospice volunteers were also collecting especially during the T20's where people may very well have paid £18 for their ticket and bought a programme as well. The quiz evening was well attended. The Carol lunch will take place in early December. On January 19th Anthony Gibson will be the speaker at the lunch - prices to be decided later. There is also "An Evening with Alfonso Thomas" early next year - prices also to be announced. Any offers of help will be gratefully received by the committees up to and including the events.
The £4000 will go to improvements of the scoreboard (hurrah I hear you say). A point was made that if supporters know what the money is being collected for then they may be more inclined to contribute.
Mary then reported on the attendance at meetings. There will be 10 members of the Taunton committee next year 8 current members and 2 new ones. They were elected on bloc.
THE PRESENTATIONS
Richard Gould starts - he acts as his own technician (quite impressive). Roy has done all 8 of them this year. Praise for the geographical spread over the region. Somerset is fortunate to have them and we are the only ones organised this way.
Q&A's came as we went.
Review - "What a summer"
Glorious season but we wished we had won something. We got over the final yard - just short of luck! We were short in 2009 -we weren't in 2010. Kieron blames himself for us not winning the T20 - how could you plan for that? We could have claimed a legal precedence but it isn't the Somerset way and it wouldn't have felt right. Andy Hurry is an unsung hero - so good for the club. He worked very well with Justin Langer and seamlessly moved to working with Marcus. Alfonso Thomas took 106 wickets in all competitions last season. Jos Buttler - was a revelation. He'll remain as our second keeper.
CB40 - played 14 won 11. We are such a good one day side. Murali Kartik was a lot more than Middlesex's second spinner. The IPL will start on the 7th of April and will run for 7 weeks. India are touring England next year - will we play them I wonder?. Brian is looking at options for cover - but will only replace if we can get better than we have. It won't be a seam bowler but he has the budget. The West Indies trip is great in that sense. Trigger and Compo will go. What about Zander? He won't be there but he has a year left on his contract - just rumours at the moment. No guarantees about next summer and we have to balance the side. George Dockrell is signed for a year but we will share him with Ireland and he will play if they ask for him. He will go to the Windies. Nick Compton is doing well in Zimbabwe and started to settle at the end of the season.
Championship? "My Word" - read Richard Latham's report in the yearbook. We started the last day expecting Yorkshire to be our main opposition...then they played at Old Trafford!! It was a great day except for the fall of the last 3 Lancashire wickets. Durham were worthy opponents and although the guys thought they could get them but it wasn't T20 fielding restrictions. Damien Wright was a great covering player - we are very grateful to him for his real efforts.
Who decided that the Championship would be won by the number of victories and not the number of defeats.
We are very pleased with the wicket this year and the team this year did a great job (as, Richard pointed out, did Frosty for a number of years). We were the fourth or fifth pitch in England. The outfield should be better next year as well after the work on drainage this winter. It won't be completely flat but it will be less 'bobbly'. We got no grant for drainage even though the ECB has done that for every international ground (about £800K each).
Craig Kieswetter did very well at international level. Somerset had a Man of the Match in the final of a tournament which England won. He had his problems but he's learned from it and will be a better player and more of a multi-dimensional cricketer than England appreciate him to be at the moment.
Peter Trego - has done the business for England every time he has been asked. Hildreth will replace Pietersen by the Third test (Gould prediction!). What a great season he has developed a maturity and consistency that we have been waiting for.
Lewis Gregory may skipper the England U19's in Australia tomorrow - a great success.
The Pakistan match was a great piece of work - no-one wore a silly T shirt or ran on the pitch. Many thanks to all the supporters for their excellent response.
The regulations will affect the signing of internationals but Arul will be qualified in July.
The 2011 squad - (picture of Kirby in MT's face after taking his wicket in the summer. It was suggested that he might have thought otherwise if he'd realised he was doing it to his future captain!!)
New names
Burke (no contract yet - depends on winter development) Barrow, Dibble (hope to see him break through this year), Dockrell, Gregory, Haggett (well again and will go to the Windies - best potential of the young bowlers), Hayman (winter assessment before summer contract), Hussain (raw but great skill with the ball swings late), Jones (Durham Uni), Leach, Kirby, Meschede (hits the ball a long way), Waller (tried to spin it more and had a problem working it into his action) - and the rest of course.
Our strength is the depth of our squad - we'd like to see 15 of them play.
The dearth of second eleven cricket means that they have to fight for their first team places. We've been involved in every competition right to the end and we haven't been able to include young players in the later stage games. The injury control has been a major part of it as well. Some may have to step up next year - Ben Phillips possibly saw the writing on the wall!
Other things in 2010 - the 'Walk of Fame' - there was a request for a re-dedication of Jack White and a picture near the gates - that will be looked into. The revamped CA pavilion has been well received. There is a plan for better seating up there for next season.
Can we get a better chocie of beers? Probably not with Marstons here. Exmoor in the CA nearly killed Gouldy.
The Tannoy was a problem again can it be sorted please. There is "Somerset TMS" around the ground now so you can all use it on the ground.
If the electronic scoreboard is sorted this season then the large one will go and two sets of repeater boards will be placed in other parts of the ground
For 2011 the Ondaatje Pavilion 400 seats will have gone and there will be 800 seats replacing. They will be centered on the pavilion itself and will go up to the level of the balconies. Planning permission is in and it is hoped they will go up in February March and will stop the need for temporary seating. Should be able to get to 12,500 with some other seating plans.
The 50 bed business hotel plan is in its early stages. "We're fishing at the moment" . We already have planning permission but we need a business partner - it will probably look nothing like that!! It will not diminish parking by any more than about 20 cars. Car Parking will be a problem around the ground as the Firepool scheme develops. We'd like to use the spare land at the moment for big games because it is doing nothing at the moment.
The apartments are about one third full. Olio and Farina and the bike shop are doing well.
Finance? We made £75K (depending on whether you count tax or not) profit. Keeps the bank happy. There is a salary cap of £1.8m. We have the third highest wage bill in domestic cricket and we are close to it. Cameron costs us a couple of grand.
T20 - we've been noisy about it because we took £121K in 2008 and nearly £400K (£394,942) in 2010. 56% of members opted to buy Platinum membership so the members did pay for it. No changes in the cricket structure for 2011. There will be changes in 2012.
We are looking for a surplus of £270K next year because we have loan repayments to make. We get £1.8m from the ECB pool. The accountants do not pick the first eleven and never will! Somerset spend the money on cricket (Over £2m) everything else is less than £500K. Our catering income was significantly lower because the CA was shut for longer than expected.
Objectives?
- Compete in all forms and win one!!
- Build the existing squad - encourage quality young players to progress to the firsts
- 3 Somerset players in senior England squads
- Complete the new Ondaatje Pavilion
- Sign up partners for the Hotel
- Drive up membership - lots more supporters out there.
- Bath - new cricket wicket on the byeline on the rugby pitch (where temporary stands usually are). T20 match in a 7000 seater stadium next season? Hopefully. The risk is when the temporary stand comes down the grass needs to be growen so it won't be early in the season.
Other bits of info...
Why Lords CB40 Finalat 3:00? Some Aussie in charge at the MCC wanted to try out the floodlights!
Kieswetter, Thomas and Trego have put their names forward for the IPL. Buttler hasn't - it has been decided that it is too early for him to go.
Charl has not retired from one day cricket. The white ball simply failed to swing last year - we hope it will this year.
Big debate on the change from 5 free tickets to 2 tickets with membership. Richard is not in the job of giving free cricket away.
And that was the lot at 9:30. Hope its ok...will pretty it up later.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 24/11/2010 19:42
Grockles.com
24/11/2010 19:42
24/11/2010 19:42
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:04:22:15:50 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:04:22:15:50 by Grockle.
Thanks for the report Grockle.
There was talk about the new scoreboard becoming the main scoreboard by adding another strip along the bottom so that more information can be added.
There was talk about the new scoreboard becoming the main scoreboard by adding another strip along the bottom so that more information can be added.
Third highest wage bill? Wow. And still turning a profit.
For all we gripe and groan sometimes, we have some exceptionally competent people running the club if that stat is true, from little old non-international Somerset.
For all we gripe and groan sometimes, we have some exceptionally competent people running the club if that stat is true, from little old non-international Somerset.
Surprised that Brian has ruled out an overseas seamer.
Perhaps he would consider a batsman if Zander leaves? And doubly so if Craig makes the IPL, which he may well do?
If we made 75k surplus this year, I'm not sure how on earth we're going to get to 270k odd surplus for next year?
Whatever warm words they may have said about accountants not picking the team, the two figures in the para above suggest to me that we might very well not cover Kartik to save money and, thus, give us a greater chance of getting this 270k surplus that we apparently need.
Perhaps he would consider a batsman if Zander leaves? And doubly so if Craig makes the IPL, which he may well do?
If we made 75k surplus this year, I'm not sure how on earth we're going to get to 270k odd surplus for next year?
Whatever warm words they may have said about accountants not picking the team, the two figures in the para above suggest to me that we might very well not cover Kartik to save money and, thus, give us a greater chance of getting this 270k surplus that we apparently need.
I am surprised at the cover for Kartik point too. To be honest Trego, Thomas and Kieswetter all have a good chance of being in the IPL IMO. Maybe that will change the thinking on who will be a replacement and what type of player it is. We will really need to see whose avaialble after the IPL auction. My bet is that Pakistanis will be the most available.
I also read that the reason Bopara hadn't signed an Essex contract was something to do with compensation due from IPL if he has a contract with them. If that is the case we would expect the same from our 3 if picked and that would provide the extra we need to get the right man in.
Grocke, a good report sir. On the Zander point. Are these your comments "just rumours at the momemt. No guarantees for next summer and we need to balance the side", or were they said or implied by Richard Gould? You get the impression that he is offski or not?
I also read that the reason Bopara hadn't signed an Essex contract was something to do with compensation due from IPL if he has a contract with them. If that is the case we would expect the same from our 3 if picked and that would provide the extra we need to get the right man in.
Grocke, a good report sir. On the Zander point. Are these your comments "just rumours at the momemt. No guarantees for next summer and we need to balance the side", or were they said or implied by Richard Gould? You get the impression that he is offski or not?
Before the fixture list is finalised, would someone please tell the powers that be that I am totally free from any commitments on Friday 29th April?
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Well, if he'd had the good sense to marry my equally eligible daughter - or she'd had the daftness to marry him...
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
The day off is the first decent thing that the country has gained from the existence of the Royals in living memory. If business leaders complain, perhaps Queenie can re-imburse them for staff time lost..
The Zander info was from Richard when he was asked for summer guarantees.
The "non seamer"argument was simply based on the fact that we have a bunch of them and bringing in another would mean he would have to be better than those we already had and they didn't think they could find one.
However a couple of options were mentioned. Including signing a wicket-keeper batsman to take the early pressure off Jos should Craig also be in the IPL.
I was a little worried about the lack of concern about spinner cover - They have a number of options - it was mentioned by someone sarcastically that Arul was a credible bowler and maybe someone should remind the selectors of that fact.
Interesting comments about Max. It seems that he has been working on spinning the ball more (as Richard said - Mike Munday's spin with Max Waller's control would provide us with the next Shane Warne). However, extracting more spin decreased his control and he had problems getting the balaance between the two right. A definite - season to determine future - sort of statement over him.
Hussain it seems was the one player Gloucestershire had set their targets on keeping. He is raw but has loads of potential and presently the opinion is that if he gets it right we could see him folowing Craig K down the England fast track at speed. They plan to use him across the board as and when appropriate - seems our lot are very surprised he wasn't used in other formats. Excited about him but a little apprehensive as well.
There was also a definite feel that we must break through those players who are capable of it - even if it makes us less competitive in certain competitions. if we don't gamble next year we may be scrabbling about for the next 5. If the gamble pays off Somerset's next trophy winning team could be in place for years to come.
One other conversation about Marcus probably not remaining captain until retirement. 'Captaincy has a shelf life' was the comment - it was said that everyone thought Justin's captaincy had come to the end of its life even if he returned. Marcus was a fresh approach but in time that may also wane and we may look elsewhere. No time scale was even considered but something to keep in mind.
The "non seamer"argument was simply based on the fact that we have a bunch of them and bringing in another would mean he would have to be better than those we already had and they didn't think they could find one.
However a couple of options were mentioned. Including signing a wicket-keeper batsman to take the early pressure off Jos should Craig also be in the IPL.
I was a little worried about the lack of concern about spinner cover - They have a number of options - it was mentioned by someone sarcastically that Arul was a credible bowler and maybe someone should remind the selectors of that fact.
Interesting comments about Max. It seems that he has been working on spinning the ball more (as Richard said - Mike Munday's spin with Max Waller's control would provide us with the next Shane Warne). However, extracting more spin decreased his control and he had problems getting the balaance between the two right. A definite - season to determine future - sort of statement over him.
Hussain it seems was the one player Gloucestershire had set their targets on keeping. He is raw but has loads of potential and presently the opinion is that if he gets it right we could see him folowing Craig K down the England fast track at speed. They plan to use him across the board as and when appropriate - seems our lot are very surprised he wasn't used in other formats. Excited about him but a little apprehensive as well.
There was also a definite feel that we must break through those players who are capable of it - even if it makes us less competitive in certain competitions. if we don't gamble next year we may be scrabbling about for the next 5. If the gamble pays off Somerset's next trophy winning team could be in place for years to come.
One other conversation about Marcus probably not remaining captain until retirement. 'Captaincy has a shelf life' was the comment - it was said that everyone thought Justin's captaincy had come to the end of its life even if he returned. Marcus was a fresh approach but in time that may also wane and we may look elsewhere. No time scale was even considered but something to keep in mind.
Ought to also mention that any compliments about the clarity is down to the presenters. I just typed the stuff in.
Oh one extra little snippet...there will be no match programmes next year....just scorecards.
Oh one extra little snippet...there will be no match programmes next year....just scorecards.
I rather suspect that having Marcus as captain wears on the other players rather less than having Langer as captain. However, I guess there's also the effect on the skipper himself to consider.
Brian Rose had previously said, publicly, that Waller needed to turn the ball more. Almost all wrist-spinners find there is a tension between extracting more turn and/or having more varieties versus the degree of control that they can exert. As to next season being a decisive one for Max; I would like to think that if he can't master the more turn thing, they'd at least try to keep him on for one-day cricket and let him go back to his old bowling style (which seemed to be just fine for one-day cricket.)
As to the wicket-keeper batsman, I doubt an IPL team will decide to have Brad Haddin occupy a keeper's berth, so I wonder if he would be under consideration? We could certainly do worse. I would think Mark Boucher will not get an IPL berth, either
Brian Rose had previously said, publicly, that Waller needed to turn the ball more. Almost all wrist-spinners find there is a tension between extracting more turn and/or having more varieties versus the degree of control that they can exert. As to next season being a decisive one for Max; I would like to think that if he can't master the more turn thing, they'd at least try to keep him on for one-day cricket and let him go back to his old bowling style (which seemed to be just fine for one-day cricket.)
As to the wicket-keeper batsman, I doubt an IPL team will decide to have Brad Haddin occupy a keeper's berth, so I wonder if he would be under consideration? We could certainly do worse. I would think Mark Boucher will not get an IPL berth, either
interesting Grockle, thanks.
Good to see we have at least got flexible contingency plans in place should the IPL take our stars!!
Personally I hope that Gregory and Haggett come to the fore this season. Feel we need to keep Zander for at least one more year to let everything bed in though.
Good to see we have at least got flexible contingency plans in place should the IPL take our stars!!
Personally I hope that Gregory and Haggett come to the fore this season. Feel we need to keep Zander for at least one more year to let everything bed in though.
50p, bargain.
No more articles we've all read the week befor in various other press sources...
No more articles we've all read the week befor in various other press sources...
Yep they are provided externally and the club gets little from it but has to provide stuff to a quite narrow deadline - no chance for proof reading (we tended to do that at the start of the game in the press box).
Re.AGod's question about where the extra £200k may come from. Looks very likely that this will come from the Tourist game, so the figure isn't pie-in-the-sky.
SillyMidOn posted 'we have some exceptionally competent people running the club'. Indeed we do and long may it continue.
SillyMidOn posted 'we have some exceptionally competent people running the club'. Indeed we do and long may it continue.
Really? Wow?
What is the tourist game? Is it a one-dayer? And who are the tourists?
I once attended a first-class tour game against South Africa at Taunton - quite recently, and I'd be absolutely astonished if the club made 200K profit or anywhere near that from that fixture, hence why I assume this is a one-day game that you are talking about?
What is the tourist game? Is it a one-dayer? And who are the tourists?
I once attended a first-class tour game against South Africa at Taunton - quite recently, and I'd be absolutely astonished if the club made 200K profit or anywhere near that from that fixture, hence why I assume this is a one-day game that you are talking about?
They lost two months revenue from the catering this year. They are doing 4000 covers over the Xmas Holiday.
They will possibly have money from NOT paying for cover for Kartik and also possibly others who will be paid by the IPL for some 7 weeks if they are chosen.
They will have prize money should we be placed in the competitions
Why don't you expect them to find the money? They seem to have achieved their planned business targets over the last three years and have probably alreay identified where this money will be coming from next year.
They will possibly have money from NOT paying for cover for Kartik and also possibly others who will be paid by the IPL for some 7 weeks if they are chosen.
They will have prize money should we be placed in the competitions
Why don't you expect them to find the money? They seem to have achieved their planned business targets over the last three years and have probably alreay identified where this money will be coming from next year.
agreed, and if they are competing the crowds should be up and we make increased revenue from that as well as food/drink outlets.
The people we have in charge are the best for soemtime and I think they are doing a grand job.
The people we have in charge are the best for soemtime and I think they are doing a grand job.
It is really good that the club has excellence both on and off the pitch at the moment.
Long may it continue!
Long may it continue!
"if they are competing the crowds should be up and we make increased revenue from that as well as food/drink outlets."
Perhaps I've missed something, but I don't think we could compete much better than we did last year!!!?
4000 covers over the Xmas holiday certainly sounds like it will help financially, as would not getting cover for Kartik and the possible departure (assuming it is his decision) of Zander.
However, it's difficult to square economies made from the above two scenarios with the rather odd comment that Grockle reported was made to the effect of 'The Accounts will not pick the team."
I find this reported comment to be bizarre, in the extreme. I think, in the real world, every sports fan knows that every sporting club in the world has to live within a budget and this affects the playing side of things - even at Manchester City, never mind SCCC!!
If they can effectively make the overall surplus of 275K that they need without those economies outlined above, I will be astonished and delighted!!
If they have to make those economies to pay off the loan payments that are apparently due, then the pertinent question is as follows;
How much of a deleterious effect would occur if we have no overseas player until Kartik joins (please bear in mind that Damien Wright did rather a good job, I thought, last year) and if Zander decides to leave the club?
If there is a marked deleterious effect on results, then how much impact would that have on game-day revenues and how much of the "savings," made would effectively be lost as a result?
Does anyone that uses this site know whether (or not) payments made for IPL players are of the sort of magnitude that they could provide for an overseas replacement for Kartik?
My personal view is this;
1) I expect Alf Thomas to go to the IPL.
2) Kartik is certain to play, unless injured.
3) Zander, apparently, might leave.
Correct me if I am very much mistaken, but...... Are the three guys mentioned above not three of our very best one-day players?
We were the best overall one-day team last year. And we came within a whisker of carrying off both trophies.
I think it will be hard to be as competitive in one-day cricket if we have no Kartik and no Alf at the start of the season and no Zander at all.
We have two new pacemen. One is reportedly 'talented but raw,' and is devoid of one-day experience. The other, Steve Kirby, is a great competitor and will be a wonderful acquisition in the CC, but I'd be astonished if he was as good a one-day bowler as Alf. George Dockrell appears to be promising, but will himself be unavailable at frequent intervals. Again, I will be astonished if he proves, in his debut season, to be as good a one-day bowler as Kartik.
Now, don't get me wrong... I'm full square behind the cricketing decision (that seems to me to have been made) to focus on pacemen that could help us win the CC, more so than to sign guys who are more one-day players...
... However, we're led to believe that it is the one-day games that contributes the bulk of our income (if you first subtract the ECB grant)
Thank you, Grockle, for your excellent report of proceedings. IN my view the above questions are pertinent.
Perhaps I've missed something, but I don't think we could compete much better than we did last year!!!?
4000 covers over the Xmas holiday certainly sounds like it will help financially, as would not getting cover for Kartik and the possible departure (assuming it is his decision) of Zander.
However, it's difficult to square economies made from the above two scenarios with the rather odd comment that Grockle reported was made to the effect of 'The Accounts will not pick the team."
I find this reported comment to be bizarre, in the extreme. I think, in the real world, every sports fan knows that every sporting club in the world has to live within a budget and this affects the playing side of things - even at Manchester City, never mind SCCC!!
If they can effectively make the overall surplus of 275K that they need without those economies outlined above, I will be astonished and delighted!!
If they have to make those economies to pay off the loan payments that are apparently due, then the pertinent question is as follows;
How much of a deleterious effect would occur if we have no overseas player until Kartik joins (please bear in mind that Damien Wright did rather a good job, I thought, last year) and if Zander decides to leave the club?
If there is a marked deleterious effect on results, then how much impact would that have on game-day revenues and how much of the "savings," made would effectively be lost as a result?
Does anyone that uses this site know whether (or not) payments made for IPL players are of the sort of magnitude that they could provide for an overseas replacement for Kartik?
My personal view is this;
1) I expect Alf Thomas to go to the IPL.
2) Kartik is certain to play, unless injured.
3) Zander, apparently, might leave.
Correct me if I am very much mistaken, but...... Are the three guys mentioned above not three of our very best one-day players?
We were the best overall one-day team last year. And we came within a whisker of carrying off both trophies.
I think it will be hard to be as competitive in one-day cricket if we have no Kartik and no Alf at the start of the season and no Zander at all.
We have two new pacemen. One is reportedly 'talented but raw,' and is devoid of one-day experience. The other, Steve Kirby, is a great competitor and will be a wonderful acquisition in the CC, but I'd be astonished if he was as good a one-day bowler as Alf. George Dockrell appears to be promising, but will himself be unavailable at frequent intervals. Again, I will be astonished if he proves, in his debut season, to be as good a one-day bowler as Kartik.
Now, don't get me wrong... I'm full square behind the cricketing decision (that seems to me to have been made) to focus on pacemen that could help us win the CC, more so than to sign guys who are more one-day players...
... However, we're led to believe that it is the one-day games that contributes the bulk of our income (if you first subtract the ECB grant)
Thank you, Grockle, for your excellent report of proceedings. IN my view the above questions are pertinent.
I'm also interested in this business about the white ball and Charl's one-day place.
Does the notion that the white ball did not swing last year sqaure with the memory of the denizens of this site? I'm not saying it does not tally with mine - to be honest I cannot really remember whether it did or not.
If it didn't do so in the country in general, does anyone have any info as to what happened? I thought the white ball had generally been thought of as one that swings more than the red ball? Was there some radical change in the composition of the ball? If so, is it being reversed? If there was such a change and it is not being reversed are there any grounds for thinking things will be different next season?
I know, of course, that weather conditions are believed to play a part in whether the ball swings or not but the red ball certainly did swing last year and it would obviously not be realistic to suggest that weather conditions happened to be conducive when we played with a red ball but never were when we played with a white one.
Isn't Gemaal Hussain thought of, principally, as a swing bowler, albeit one with pace? Perhaps the white ball didn't swing in Bristol, either, and that's why he did not play?
Does the notion that the white ball did not swing last year sqaure with the memory of the denizens of this site? I'm not saying it does not tally with mine - to be honest I cannot really remember whether it did or not.
If it didn't do so in the country in general, does anyone have any info as to what happened? I thought the white ball had generally been thought of as one that swings more than the red ball? Was there some radical change in the composition of the ball? If so, is it being reversed? If there was such a change and it is not being reversed are there any grounds for thinking things will be different next season?
I know, of course, that weather conditions are believed to play a part in whether the ball swings or not but the red ball certainly did swing last year and it would obviously not be realistic to suggest that weather conditions happened to be conducive when we played with a red ball but never were when we played with a white one.
Isn't Gemaal Hussain thought of, principally, as a swing bowler, albeit one with pace? Perhaps the white ball didn't swing in Bristol, either, and that's why he did not play?
AG. They are marketing hard to increase crowd Revenue and we will have 400 os so increased seating too, and the Bath t20 game may allow more than the 3,000 into the gound which it currently allows (up to 10k was what I am told). In addition, if we can attract 500 more members then that goes a long way to meeting this magical 270k. So surely we cant' knock them?
On the playing front I agree. The IPL money if all of them go should allow us to get in a Kartik replacement. In my eyes this is a must. We also have a budget for it if none of them are picked (according to the report) so that would be no loss if we use it. We need to look at who we bring in for the t20 IMO. If Pollard is too costly/unavailable then we may have to go somewhere else. The sentiment is correct though. If you are not competing the crowds will not be as high. I think a big key to our success will be the start of the season. If all 3 of our players are picked, and Zander leaves, then we are short. We would then need to bring in an overseas player absolutely essential I think. Zander is key, if he stays and an overseas comes in we will be okay and when they all return........then bonanza time (hopefully!!)
On the playing front I agree. The IPL money if all of them go should allow us to get in a Kartik replacement. In my eyes this is a must. We also have a budget for it if none of them are picked (according to the report) so that would be no loss if we use it. We need to look at who we bring in for the t20 IMO. If Pollard is too costly/unavailable then we may have to go somewhere else. The sentiment is correct though. If you are not competing the crowds will not be as high. I think a big key to our success will be the start of the season. If all 3 of our players are picked, and Zander leaves, then we are short. We would then need to bring in an overseas player absolutely essential I think. Zander is key, if he stays and an overseas comes in we will be okay and when they all return........then bonanza time (hopefully!!)
Quote:Grockle
... They are doing 4000 covers over the Xmas Holiday.
They will possibly have money from NOT paying for cover for Kartik ...
Are we to take it that SCCC will not be feeding Kartik next season - or is that he doesn't like our food?
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
All well debated by AGod and Ronniesabre above. There are reasonable questions to be asked and more mountains to climb but we are most definitely 'on the up'.
I have no doubt about the club'c ability to meet its targets off the field next year. As Richard Gould stated when announcing the 2010 profit "We are very pleased to have found that most rare of things in sport, a successful team supported by a sustainable business model."
I can argue with only one aspect of that statement...'found' makes it sound like we've fortunately stumbled over this formula. Not so. It's taken four years of intelligent, hard graft since we came bottom of Div 2 in 2006 and we are all delighted that some of the recent 'dark days' have been replaced by unbridled optimism.
I have no doubt about the club'c ability to meet its targets off the field next year. As Richard Gould stated when announcing the 2010 profit "We are very pleased to have found that most rare of things in sport, a successful team supported by a sustainable business model."
I can argue with only one aspect of that statement...'found' makes it sound like we've fortunately stumbled over this formula. Not so. It's taken four years of intelligent, hard graft since we came bottom of Div 2 in 2006 and we are all delighted that some of the recent 'dark days' have been replaced by unbridled optimism.
I agree with Bath Bob that these things don't happen by chance. The management team are to be congratulated for the excellent results secured off, as well as on, the pitch.
I was particularly impressed by the way in which Richard Gould handled the furore which blew up regarding the Pakistan match. His calming comments ahead of the match struck exactly the right note - and I suspect that they helped to ensure that the Pakistan players were received courteously by everyone who came to watch the match. And I was very pleased that the club made a donation to the flood relief fund.
I was particularly impressed by the way in which Richard Gould handled the furore which blew up regarding the Pakistan match. His calming comments ahead of the match struck exactly the right note - and I suspect that they helped to ensure that the Pakistan players were received courteously by everyone who came to watch the match. And I was very pleased that the club made a donation to the flood relief fund.
Some doom and gloom there AG.
You seem to be assuming that great perople are leaving and the people taking their place are poor. That isn't necessarily the case.
Possibly the way to look at it is that the replacement may not be as productive as Alf - but they may be a little bit LESS destructive than Mark Turner or David Stiff
Jos Buttler had no experience of the T20 or one dayers at the start of last year...or being a keeper. He seems tyo have taken on the job OK - why has Hussain got to be a problem because his club didn't use him in one dayers?
We didn't used to use Alf in Championship games. He seems to have made a go of playing in them.
We may lose a little bit of edge but it isn't a racing certainty at all.
You seem to be assuming that great perople are leaving and the people taking their place are poor. That isn't necessarily the case.
Possibly the way to look at it is that the replacement may not be as productive as Alf - but they may be a little bit LESS destructive than Mark Turner or David Stiff
Jos Buttler had no experience of the T20 or one dayers at the start of last year...or being a keeper. He seems tyo have taken on the job OK - why has Hussain got to be a problem because his club didn't use him in one dayers?
We didn't used to use Alf in Championship games. He seems to have made a go of playing in them.
We may lose a little bit of edge but it isn't a racing certainty at all.
I don't really see it as doom and gloom, Grockle. My view, as I've stated before is that Alf and Kartik are the two best one-day bowlers in the country, never mind at Somerset!!
Perhaps I am being pessimistic in assuming that Alf will be taken away by the IPL, they might be too stupid and giddy with the idea of 'big names,' to take him, I grant you.
I'm delighted that Jos has not put his name forward for the IPL. There's got to be a risk that Craig will be signed up though - after all, he was man of the match in the T20 World Final!!! So even if I'm being pessimistic assuming that Alf will go, it might be that I was being optimistic in not listing Craig as being another potential absence.
Of course, I should also add that young members of our squad might prove themselves to be eminently capable if, as I hope, a number of them play in the West Indian tournament. To be honest, even though he's not retired from them, I'm not sure there's a huge amount of point in bowling Charl, for example, in those T20 games in the West Indies - i.e. I think Charl has probably already learned all he needs to know about bowling in one-day games.
Perhaps I am being pessimistic in assuming that Alf will be taken away by the IPL, they might be too stupid and giddy with the idea of 'big names,' to take him, I grant you.
I'm delighted that Jos has not put his name forward for the IPL. There's got to be a risk that Craig will be signed up though - after all, he was man of the match in the T20 World Final!!! So even if I'm being pessimistic assuming that Alf will go, it might be that I was being optimistic in not listing Craig as being another potential absence.
Of course, I should also add that young members of our squad might prove themselves to be eminently capable if, as I hope, a number of them play in the West Indian tournament. To be honest, even though he's not retired from them, I'm not sure there's a huge amount of point in bowling Charl, for example, in those T20 games in the West Indies - i.e. I think Charl has probably already learned all he needs to know about bowling in one-day games.
Meschede, Hagget and Gregory........if they all step up like Buttler last year we will have a side I tell you and be proud as they will have come through our ranks.
My concern is Zander. One more year from him in the middle order and I think the others will prosper a lot easier. Jos did as he had experience around him.
If he goes these guys will find it difficult. Don't know who is driving these Zander rumours and who is more keen to leave (him or Somerset), but if he has signed than I would hold him to that one year. Durham are doing it with Blackie are they not?
My concern is Zander. One more year from him in the middle order and I think the others will prosper a lot easier. Jos did as he had experience around him.
If he goes these guys will find it difficult. Don't know who is driving these Zander rumours and who is more keen to leave (him or Somerset), but if he has signed than I would hold him to that one year. Durham are doing it with Blackie are they not?
Durham offered Blackie the opportunity to buy himself out of the last year of his contract.
But it was for such a formidable sum that it never appeared likely to happen.
But it was for such a formidable sum that it never appeared likely to happen.
The Durham unofficial site ‘Down by the Riverside’ has a thread entitled ‘Senior Squad Winter Whereabouts’ and on it, Ian Blackwell is listed as having - “Returned to Somerset and will conduct winter training there.”
How ironic it would be, if Somerset are letting him use their facilities for winter - training.
But, on the other hand, perhaps he will be seen at a local gym or running around a wet and misty field somewhere near Taunton.
How ironic it would be, if Somerset are letting him use their facilities for winter - training.
But, on the other hand, perhaps he will be seen at a local gym or running around a wet and misty field somewhere near Taunton.
I believe not far away from Taunton.
I spoke to his wife earlier this year, only I can't remember her name.
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I spoke to his wife earlier this year, only I can't remember her name.
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Isn't that part of the problem? He works in the North East and his wife and kids live in the South West?
I've never been an advocate for demanding that a player who wants to go somewhere else must stay and give 100% to a contract he does not want. I don't think there is one side or the other in Zander's situation. It seems to be something like the Ben Philips situation. If he finds something he wants in his homeland then Somerset will release him and if he doesn't he will happily return and complete his year and search for what he's looking for next year.
I seem to be in a minority here. Zander was always the 'third' kolpak - the extra one to patch a possible hole in our line-up. He was the Neil McKenzie - the fifth bowler and the top 5 standby for if our own didn't hit their straps.
What a great job he has done but the plan was always that he would be the man to step aside if we got the young in and filled the gaps.
The last bit of the puzzle should be Meschede. We have the Boss and Arul set with Jones being developed to be the third in the partnetship . We have Compo looking like he is finding his feet at 3. We have the best number 4 in the country. We have 2 budding top 5 keepers. We have Trigger. If Craig Meschede hits the ball like it is reported, provides that 5th bowler and has the temprament then ZdB will move out anyway.
This was the season when we were planning to do this. The older players will step aside and the first would be Zander.
Big shoes to fill but they have to be filled or Somerset's rise stops at 2012 and that can't be allowed to happen.
It has been a real priviledge to watch him and he has been such a good member of the side. But we have to move on to someone new with a longer future than the end of the summer. They have to step up and take responsibility and Zander has to do what is right for his future and leave us to it.
Unless of course he doesn't find what he is looking for in which case his backup would be very welcome. However, still think the younger men have to play the moment they are deemed to be ready.
I've never been an advocate for demanding that a player who wants to go somewhere else must stay and give 100% to a contract he does not want. I don't think there is one side or the other in Zander's situation. It seems to be something like the Ben Philips situation. If he finds something he wants in his homeland then Somerset will release him and if he doesn't he will happily return and complete his year and search for what he's looking for next year.
I seem to be in a minority here. Zander was always the 'third' kolpak - the extra one to patch a possible hole in our line-up. He was the Neil McKenzie - the fifth bowler and the top 5 standby for if our own didn't hit their straps.
What a great job he has done but the plan was always that he would be the man to step aside if we got the young in and filled the gaps.
The last bit of the puzzle should be Meschede. We have the Boss and Arul set with Jones being developed to be the third in the partnetship . We have Compo looking like he is finding his feet at 3. We have the best number 4 in the country. We have 2 budding top 5 keepers. We have Trigger. If Craig Meschede hits the ball like it is reported, provides that 5th bowler and has the temprament then ZdB will move out anyway.
This was the season when we were planning to do this. The older players will step aside and the first would be Zander.
Big shoes to fill but they have to be filled or Somerset's rise stops at 2012 and that can't be allowed to happen.
It has been a real priviledge to watch him and he has been such a good member of the side. But we have to move on to someone new with a longer future than the end of the summer. They have to step up and take responsibility and Zander has to do what is right for his future and leave us to it.
Unless of course he doesn't find what he is looking for in which case his backup would be very welcome. However, still think the younger men have to play the moment they are deemed to be ready.
Thanks for the detailed report Grockle.
Can't find much to take issue with in any of that.
Mind you, the developers of the Flats must be pretty p/o'd that they are only 1/3 sold !
Grizzzly
Can't find much to take issue with in any of that.
Mind you, the developers of the Flats must be pretty p/o'd that they are only 1/3 sold !
Grizzzly
Yes Grizzzly the latest figure I have for the flats is 17 sold, that sounds not very good seeing the amount of time they have been on the market.
If the electronic scoreboard is sorted this season then the large one will go and two sets of repeater boards will be placed in other parts of the ground.
Just one small point to mention ahead of anything changing, a scoreboard with all the information needs to be seen from all the areas of the ground (more so for one-day matches) there must be some part of the ground where the new scoreboard is hard to see.
How easy is it to see from the Media Centre / Cow Shed / Old Pavilion? Even parts of the Gimblett Hill it is not easy to see at time.
Edited the colour for SP I was trying to show what it was like on a bright day.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:27:09:47:24 by Mike BOS.
Just one small point to mention ahead of anything changing, a scoreboard with all the information needs to be seen from all the areas of the ground (more so for one-day matches) there must be some part of the ground where the new scoreboard is hard to see.
How easy is it to see from the Media Centre / Cow Shed / Old Pavilion? Even parts of the Gimblett Hill it is not easy to see at time.
Edited the colour for SP I was trying to show what it was like on a bright day.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:27:09:47:24 by Mike BOS.
Hope they don't go for a white scoreboard with yellow writing - won't matter where you're sitting then.
Those flats certainly cost a lot when they first came on the market. I did ask for information!
Only LoL can afford them, and even then only because of his various Lottery jackpot wins.
Only LoL can afford them, and even then only because of his various Lottery jackpot wins.
Let's face it, the club just happened - by sheer misfortune - to pick the wrong time for this development.
I agree AGod it is a bad time for selling, I can only go by where I live and if they are sensibly priced they will sell quite quickly when they come on the market.
They are still advertising the two bedroom penthouse at £849,950.
They are still advertising the two bedroom penthouse at £849,950.
Quote:AGod
Let's face it, the club just happened - by sheer misfortune - to pick the wrong time for this development.
It's not the club's problem AG. They have nothing to do witht the selling. They received their payment from Pegasus for the land and their only involvement now is a financial gain when a flat is sold.
The whole burden is on the property company. Who, as you say, were unlucky in their choice of time to develop.
Right, but presumably SCCC now wish that they'd demanded a larger flat-fee for the land and let the developer keep the 'profits,' from the sales!?
Nobody's fault but if the club profits every time a flat sells and they are not selling well then the club is still adversely affected by the poor selling climate?
What I don't is how many flats need to be sold to produce the level of income for SCCC that would have been budgeted for.
Nobody's fault but if the club profits every time a flat sells and they are not selling well then the club is still adversely affected by the poor selling climate?
What I don't is how many flats need to be sold to produce the level of income for SCCC that would have been budgeted for.
As far as I've been aware over the last couple of AGM's the income from flat sales has been seen as a variable income stream and has not been included in financial plans except as extra contingency funds. If we get it then wonderful, if we don't then it doesn't affect anything planned.
The income recieved is a small fraction as far as I am aware and only becomes anything massively significant to yearly plans if all the flats are sold in one tax year.
You really are on a 'lets find something drastically wrong' trip at the moment aren't you?
The income recieved is a small fraction as far as I am aware and only becomes anything massively significant to yearly plans if all the flats are sold in one tax year.
You really are on a 'lets find something drastically wrong' trip at the moment aren't you?
Yes, the whole of last season on the field. I think there's been plenty of comment on that.
And now it's all going to go to hell in the thoughtfully placed handbasket as we fail to hit unrealistic financial targets, lose everyone and their mother to the IPL without making any contingency to cover them, place our faith in poorer quality players, lose games because someone called de Bruyn isn't in the side and include the accountants in the selection committee immediately
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And that's only since Wednesday!
Maybe we'll build on last year and all will be well by this time next year? Who knows? Anything is possible after 2010. Just another angle on the situation I suppose :-)
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And that's only since Wednesday!
Maybe we'll build on last year and all will be well by this time next year? Who knows? Anything is possible after 2010. Just another angle on the situation I suppose :-)
Quote:AGod
Let's face it, the club just happened - by sheer misfortune - to pick the wrong time for this development.
Somerset is fortunate (not unfortunate) in agreeing the contract with Pegasus when they did.
In the current economic climate, the deal would never have taken place and Somerset would not have achieved a Surplus for 2008 (after taxation) of £4.41 million.
Although, because of the slow uptake on the flats being sold, Somerset are not receiving the premium on each sale as they might otherwise have done in different circumstances, they do (I assume) receive rent from the shop(s) / restaurant beneath the Somerset Stand.
I suggest that none of this would have been possible, had not Somerset agreed the contract with the developer when they did.
Furthermore, AGod, when you say - “If we made £75k surplus this year, I'm not sure how on earth we're going to get to £270k odd surplus for next year?”, perhaps we should take into account (as well as any Tourist Match which Taunton may get next year) the fact that the club will not again have to pay out any redundancy payment for a Head Groundsman.
Just a thought.
Yep I'd forgotten it was a 'premium' payment. Also have to agree it was a very good deal at the time - nothing like it would haopen in the present economic situation.
No, Grockle, hell and handbaskets is your verbiage. I merely pointed out that we will lose Kartik and that there must be a strong chance of losing Alf and that covering for those two may well be problematic. This is a common sense and realistic assessment due to the excellence of these two performers.
This is a discussion board, is it not? You may think that, if necessary, we will be able to effortlessly cover for these two. I, however, think it's worth discussing what else SCCC might be able to do to minimise the chances of such absences have an adverse effect on the start of our season.
After all, in the final analysis, the thing that stood between us and our first ever CC was surely a pair of CC defeats in the first two games we played last season....
This is a discussion board, is it not? You may think that, if necessary, we will be able to effortlessly cover for these two. I, however, think it's worth discussing what else SCCC might be able to do to minimise the chances of such absences have an adverse effect on the start of our season.
After all, in the final analysis, the thing that stood between us and our first ever CC was surely a pair of CC defeats in the first two games we played last season....
Somerset picked exactly the right time for the Pegasus flats development.
They sold the land at the absolute top of the market, have benefitted from that money ever since and will continue to do so. The premium on each flat sale will arrive sooner or later, but represents small beer in a land deal around the £5 million mark.
Remember also Somerset CCC got four new spectator stands in the lee of the flats, the Gimblett Hill (beloved of posters), a new entrance and walkway, a new groundsman `hut` and the retail rent from the shops into the bargain.
Looks OK to me.
They sold the land at the absolute top of the market, have benefitted from that money ever since and will continue to do so. The premium on each flat sale will arrive sooner or later, but represents small beer in a land deal around the £5 million mark.
Remember also Somerset CCC got four new spectator stands in the lee of the flats, the Gimblett Hill (beloved of posters), a new entrance and walkway, a new groundsman `hut` and the retail rent from the shops into the bargain.
Looks OK to me.
fred -Grockle's report states that he 'cost us a couple of grand.'
Would folks agree with me that if we have enough spare cash to do so - both in absolute terms - and in terms of room under the salary cap, a temporary replacement overseas player at the start of the season should be accorded a higher priority than bringing Pollard back for the T20.
Would folks agree with me that if we have enough spare cash to do so - both in absolute terms - and in terms of room under the salary cap, a temporary replacement overseas player at the start of the season should be accorded a higher priority than bringing Pollard back for the T20.
They have budgeted for that - it says so in the report Brian has the money already!
The only condition is that whoever comes in is better than what we have.
The only condition is that whoever comes in is better than what we have.
That was the only question/comment about Cam Fred...though Richard G did add that 'he was a friend of the county' which suggested to me and others that the debacle did not alter relations between the Aussie and the club - which is a good thing.
I would suggest to you AG that Kartik wasn't the deciding missing part of the first two Championship games.
A lack of fielding practice especially catching and too much faith in Stiff were the problems not the lack of the spinner.
Richard took this point at the meeting - Stiff's pre-season flattered to decieve and they hoped for too much.
Yep it's a forum and discussion board. So why are you surprised that supporters don't all agree with your pessimism on so many aspects...aren't we allowed to either?
A lack of fielding practice especially catching and too much faith in Stiff were the problems not the lack of the spinner.
Richard took this point at the meeting - Stiff's pre-season flattered to decieve and they hoped for too much.
Yep it's a forum and discussion board. So why are you surprised that supporters don't all agree with your pessimism on so many aspects...aren't we allowed to either?
You seem to not quite get the difference between expressing concern, versus saying things like 'we're going to hell in a handbasket.' There is quite a big difference between saying 'We might have an issue here,' versus saying 'We're stuffed,' you know.
We're going to hell in a handbasket. I blame Kevin Pietersen (who, by the way, has now gone two whole days without contributing a single run,wicket or catch).
I get your expressing concern I have the ability to read a post and understand it.
You express concerns on the financial management - what is the evidence that makes your concern anything but a piece of unfounded pessimism?
You express concern about our plans to cover IPL absences even though it is reported that cover has been budgeted for. Why the concern? Who should we be looking at to cover to allay your concerns?
You express concerns about putting younger players into the first team because of possible gaps left by the loss of Zander. How should the county develop and give opportunities to the next level of players so that you are not concerned?
And while I express an alternative view you complain and seem fixated on a single turn of phrase.
You express lots of concerns....in areas the club seems well aware of and has plans in train to deal with.
Yet I'm questioning your level of realism and that is not seemingly allowed?
Ahh well. Try not to get too hung up on your concerns. I think they are a little unrealistic and unfounded.
Happy?
You express concerns on the financial management - what is the evidence that makes your concern anything but a piece of unfounded pessimism?
You express concern about our plans to cover IPL absences even though it is reported that cover has been budgeted for. Why the concern? Who should we be looking at to cover to allay your concerns?
You express concerns about putting younger players into the first team because of possible gaps left by the loss of Zander. How should the county develop and give opportunities to the next level of players so that you are not concerned?
And while I express an alternative view you complain and seem fixated on a single turn of phrase.
You express lots of concerns....in areas the club seems well aware of and has plans in train to deal with.
Yet I'm questioning your level of realism and that is not seemingly allowed?
Ahh well. Try not to get too hung up on your concerns. I think they are a little unrealistic and unfounded.
Happy?
Re the surplus that is needed - it represents an increase by nearly a factor of four over the one recorded during the season just completed - and that was arguably the most successful one in club history, certainly we trousered prize money in all competitions - so of course it is pertinent to wonder how this will be achieved and whether, if the 270k thing is an absolute requirement, the need to generate that kind of surplus will have an adverse effect on playing matters.
The very fact that we were so successful last season surely increases the likelihood of losing guys to the IPL.
As to young players, I gave always believed that it is better to have them in competition with somebody that has a track record - as it should lead to both parties raising their game. Better for a young player to have won selection over someone like Zander ( as Jos did, at times, with Compton, last season) than for A N Other young player to simply be awarded a game by default.
The very fact that we were so successful last season surely increases the likelihood of losing guys to the IPL.
As to young players, I gave always believed that it is better to have them in competition with somebody that has a track record - as it should lead to both parties raising their game. Better for a young player to have won selection over someone like Zander ( as Jos did, at times, with Compton, last season) than for A N Other young player to simply be awarded a game by default.
And you're right about Stiff - the expectations that apparently surrounded him were grounded more in wishful thinking than anything else.
The team selection for the first couple of games - four pacemen - and Pete to boot - was OTT and left us short of batting at Leeds. I said at the time that it was a batty selection. At Nottingham we almost got away with it thanks to the efforts with the bat of our cover for Kartik, Damien Wright, who made a good second innings score to leave us a defendable target.
I'm going to try to find out how the cap works. As per your report you were told that we don't have too much room left under the cap. If this is true this might limit our ability to take anyone on to cover IPL losses, irrespective of payments received from the IPL.
The club will hopefully have a better idea - at least in one day cricket - of how well equipped we'll be to potentially play without the likes of Kartik and Zander, after this tournament in the WI.
The team selection for the first couple of games - four pacemen - and Pete to boot - was OTT and left us short of batting at Leeds. I said at the time that it was a batty selection. At Nottingham we almost got away with it thanks to the efforts with the bat of our cover for Kartik, Damien Wright, who made a good second innings score to leave us a defendable target.
I'm going to try to find out how the cap works. As per your report you were told that we don't have too much room left under the cap. If this is true this might limit our ability to take anyone on to cover IPL losses, irrespective of payments received from the IPL.
The club will hopefully have a better idea - at least in one day cricket - of how well equipped we'll be to potentially play without the likes of Kartik and Zander, after this tournament in the WI.
I don't know how many times it has to be said that the club have budgeted for losses to the IPL and Brian Rose has been allocated the money to take action should he feel it is necessary!
That will have obviously been included in any figures for the size of the salary bill for next season.
That will have obviously been included in any figures for the size of the salary bill for next season.
Players at Taunton aren't 'awarded places by default' just as they aren't 'selected by accountant'.
We have a squad about twice the size of the first eleven. They compete for places. If they aren't good enough they are released and if we have spaces people are brought in to fill those gaps.
"The top five" consists of Trescothick, Suppiah, Compton, Jones, Buttler, Trego, Kieswetter, Meschede and Hildreth.
The 'seam attack' consists of Kirby, Willoughby, Thomas, Hussain, Dibble, Gregory, Haggett, Trego and Meschede.
The Spin attack consists of Kartik, Suppiah, Waller, Dockrell and Leach
We have two keepers - probably the only place where we lack the sense of a competitive edge.
Zander would add to the competitive nature but his absence doesn't eliminate it or the influence that a competitive environment provides
We have a squad about twice the size of the first eleven. They compete for places. If they aren't good enough they are released and if we have spaces people are brought in to fill those gaps.
"The top five" consists of Trescothick, Suppiah, Compton, Jones, Buttler, Trego, Kieswetter, Meschede and Hildreth.
The 'seam attack' consists of Kirby, Willoughby, Thomas, Hussain, Dibble, Gregory, Haggett, Trego and Meschede.
The Spin attack consists of Kartik, Suppiah, Waller, Dockrell and Leach
We have two keepers - probably the only place where we lack the sense of a competitive edge.
Zander would add to the competitive nature but his absence doesn't eliminate it or the influence that a competitive environment provides
I took what you said in your report to mean that SCCC are up against it vs the salary cap based on the squad as currently constituted.
But it also says Rose has been allocated money to cover squad needs...I've posted that explanation three times now (well this is number 4 I suppose).
If you cover a player you need to budget for that cover within your figures...well you do if you are financially responsible and Somerset have indicated they are (despite your concerns) over more than one season recently.
If you cover a player you need to budget for that cover within your figures...well you do if you are financially responsible and Somerset have indicated they are (despite your concerns) over more than one season recently.
"I'm going to try to find out how the cap works."
If you are a Somerset member AGod, you could always ask such a question at the club's forthcoming AGM, although I appreciate that it may be a long way for you to travel for such a one - off occasion.
If you are a Somerset member AGod, you could always ask such a question at the club's forthcoming AGM, although I appreciate that it may be a long way for you to travel for such a one - off occasion.
I assume that a "cap" means that there is an amount of money set for paying players and you can't go above it. Is there anything else you really need to know?
The missing information that could make a difference is whether (or not) we are allowed to discount the portion of salary that we will pay to any players that go to the IPL (for the duration of their stay at the IPL) from our overall salary cap figure...if not any of our players that go to the IPL will be eating up our cap space at a time when they are not available for selection.
And what difference would knowing that make?
One would assume that the budget set by the club takes into account these regulations and who is paying which players for their time.
We have no idea how close to the cap the club is. It could be £3 it could be £300K
Somerset have planned for possible cover - the only player they can reaslitically provide cover outside of the squad for is Kartik and surely that will be under roughly the same regulations as last year so the county will already be aware of the situation and its cost.
If Craig goes Jos will cover with the gloves and one of the younger guys has to come in - probably Meschede. If Alf goes then one would assume Hussain and Kirby will partner Willoughby while Dibble and Gregory will be considered and Meschede again will be in the reckoning,
Trigger? Craig M gets his chance with bat and ball
Either way it looks like we might see Meschede early - he was being groomed for this all last year and I'm personally excited to see what all the buzz is about as i've never seen him play.
One would assume the cover money will become more of a factor if more than one guy goes because either Damien Wright will be considered (if available) for a replacement for Alf or Pete T or we look at a batsman to support Trigger or Craig going.
Either way it will be covered by or present squad with the possibility of one other short term international player should someon be available who offers a better option than what we already have.
One would assume that the budget set by the club takes into account these regulations and who is paying which players for their time.
We have no idea how close to the cap the club is. It could be £3 it could be £300K
Somerset have planned for possible cover - the only player they can reaslitically provide cover outside of the squad for is Kartik and surely that will be under roughly the same regulations as last year so the county will already be aware of the situation and its cost.
If Craig goes Jos will cover with the gloves and one of the younger guys has to come in - probably Meschede. If Alf goes then one would assume Hussain and Kirby will partner Willoughby while Dibble and Gregory will be considered and Meschede again will be in the reckoning,
Trigger? Craig M gets his chance with bat and ball
Either way it looks like we might see Meschede early - he was being groomed for this all last year and I'm personally excited to see what all the buzz is about as i've never seen him play.
One would assume the cover money will become more of a factor if more than one guy goes because either Damien Wright will be considered (if available) for a replacement for Alf or Pete T or we look at a batsman to support Trigger or Craig going.
Either way it will be covered by or present squad with the possibility of one other short term international player should someon be available who offers a better option than what we already have.
Yes, as you say yourself, the uncertainty is over which players, other than Kartik, will end up being unvailable. So the club's budget may take into account the regulations but the club is not in a position to know which places it might seek to have to cover until the wretched IPL auction has taken place.
If they said at the meeting that we were close to the cap then I'm assuming there's a reason why they said that - namely that we may be so close to it that any IPL compensation payments would necessarily have to go towards that targeted surplus because we're not allowed any significant salaries on top of what we are already paying.
Now... if we effectively get a rebate on the portion of their salaries vs the cap for the time that they are playing in the IPL (i.e. their salaries do not count for the purposes of the cap until they return from the IPL) then that would change the situation.
I suppose if Zander does leave, that would reduce the wage bill and leave more money available.
Under the regulations, I believe each County is theoretically entitled to one overseas player (including a second as cover for a situation like Kartik) and one Kolpak player.
So.... if we are very seriously stung with IPL signings ... let's say 3 or even all 4 (including Kartik) that have put their names forward are signed, then I suppose we might consider both an overseas cover and a Kolpak cover..... but that would probably only be possible if the salaries of our IPL guys are discounted from our cap during their IPL periods.
If they said at the meeting that we were close to the cap then I'm assuming there's a reason why they said that - namely that we may be so close to it that any IPL compensation payments would necessarily have to go towards that targeted surplus because we're not allowed any significant salaries on top of what we are already paying.
Now... if we effectively get a rebate on the portion of their salaries vs the cap for the time that they are playing in the IPL (i.e. their salaries do not count for the purposes of the cap until they return from the IPL) then that would change the situation.
I suppose if Zander does leave, that would reduce the wage bill and leave more money available.
Under the regulations, I believe each County is theoretically entitled to one overseas player (including a second as cover for a situation like Kartik) and one Kolpak player.
So.... if we are very seriously stung with IPL signings ... let's say 3 or even all 4 (including Kartik) that have put their names forward are signed, then I suppose we might consider both an overseas cover and a Kolpak cover..... but that would probably only be possible if the salaries of our IPL guys are discounted from our cap during their IPL periods.
We already have our kolpak allocation because it seems that although Alf is eligible to play for us he is still classified as a kolpak under european relegations because he is a european citizen by marriage.
Charl is already out of that regulation and Arul will be by June I think.
I don't understand why 'we will only cover Kartik' is so difficult for you to process. The Chief Exec said this...IMHO that tends to be a statement of county policy that probably won't change.
We will not buy other temporary players to cover other people who are pulled in by the IPL. We will turn to the squad and ask players to earn their wages in the firsts.
We'll cope like other counties and the only thing the regulations will do is give us back some money if the IPL covers part of the player's salary while they are playing in India.
I suppose we could look at loan players but I'd personally be surprised if we pull any in.
Charl is already out of that regulation and Arul will be by June I think.
I don't understand why 'we will only cover Kartik' is so difficult for you to process. The Chief Exec said this...IMHO that tends to be a statement of county policy that probably won't change.
We will not buy other temporary players to cover other people who are pulled in by the IPL. We will turn to the squad and ask players to earn their wages in the firsts.
We'll cope like other counties and the only thing the regulations will do is give us back some money if the IPL covers part of the player's salary while they are playing in India.
I suppose we could look at loan players but I'd personally be surprised if we pull any in.
Didn't know about Alf. I was kind of surprised that Brian had not looked to add a Kolpak, but I guess now I know one reason why.
If we can't hire a Kolpak, then I guess our options really might be limited to replacing Kartik.
Do we know when this infernal IPL auction actually is? I wonder if it would come early enough to make it still possible to move for a player from another county, if we get too many of our guys summoned to India?
Yes, Grockle, I'm sure if they said they only want to replace Kartik that is the current position.... but a week is a long time in politics, let alone sport. In saying that they only want to replace Kartik, they might have made certain assumptions about how many of our guys (and even which ones?) will actually be signed up to the IPL.
They will also, one assumes, be assuming that every important player will be fit and available for selection.
I really hope they use this WI trip mainly to get whichever young players have been earmarked to play a significant role, some first-team experience.
If we can't hire a Kolpak, then I guess our options really might be limited to replacing Kartik.
Do we know when this infernal IPL auction actually is? I wonder if it would come early enough to make it still possible to move for a player from another county, if we get too many of our guys summoned to India?
Yes, Grockle, I'm sure if they said they only want to replace Kartik that is the current position.... but a week is a long time in politics, let alone sport. In saying that they only want to replace Kartik, they might have made certain assumptions about how many of our guys (and even which ones?) will actually be signed up to the IPL.
They will also, one assumes, be assuming that every important player will be fit and available for selection.
I really hope they use this WI trip mainly to get whichever young players have been earmarked to play a significant role, some first-team experience.
Errr yes I think that is why we are going to the WI AG!
To take an analogy from something earlier - "a week in politics" is not like a week in cricket.
You don't just employ people of quality at the drop of a hat. If it isn't kolpak and it isn't sorted by Christmas it tends not to happen or is a nightmare.
Who the hell are we going to move from somewhere else in February?
And I return to the main proposition. Why would we bother with a squad of 24+? Are they going to be a) any better than what we have or b) committed to anything but the wage packet as they are temporary?
Is this fixation on having to pay for replacements based on some lack of belief in the squad we have? Take out Alf Craig and Pete and assume Zander does not return
Trescothick
Suppiah
Compton
Hildreth
Buttler
(Cover)
Meschede
Waller/Dockrell
Kirby
Hussain
Willoughby
This would be the worst scenario - we would need to bring in one player but we would still have one of the strongest if not the strongest top 5 in county cricket. We would still have a spinning option and we would have nearly the bowling attack we would expect to represent us at sometime during the season.
Craig Meschede would be the man with the big opportunity and we would still have Gregory and Dibble in reserve if something went wrong with one of the seamers.
Who would we bring in to improve that situation for a month?
Losing four major players to the IPL would not be desirable but we have cover already and have budgeted to cover our international. Should the three others ALL go we have to ask some serious questions early but not questions we were not expecting to ask anyway during 2011 about the ability of Kirby, Hussain, Meschede and our young spinners.
If either of the two seamers we have bought had been available last year to cover instead of David Stiff wouldn't we have jumped at the chance? Yet they are now not to be trusted with the job we bought them to do?
To take an analogy from something earlier - "a week in politics" is not like a week in cricket.
You don't just employ people of quality at the drop of a hat. If it isn't kolpak and it isn't sorted by Christmas it tends not to happen or is a nightmare.
Who the hell are we going to move from somewhere else in February?
And I return to the main proposition. Why would we bother with a squad of 24+? Are they going to be a) any better than what we have or b) committed to anything but the wage packet as they are temporary?
Is this fixation on having to pay for replacements based on some lack of belief in the squad we have? Take out Alf Craig and Pete and assume Zander does not return
Trescothick
Suppiah
Compton
Hildreth
Buttler
(Cover)
Meschede
Waller/Dockrell
Kirby
Hussain
Willoughby
This would be the worst scenario - we would need to bring in one player but we would still have one of the strongest if not the strongest top 5 in county cricket. We would still have a spinning option and we would have nearly the bowling attack we would expect to represent us at sometime during the season.
Craig Meschede would be the man with the big opportunity and we would still have Gregory and Dibble in reserve if something went wrong with one of the seamers.
Who would we bring in to improve that situation for a month?
Losing four major players to the IPL would not be desirable but we have cover already and have budgeted to cover our international. Should the three others ALL go we have to ask some serious questions early but not questions we were not expecting to ask anyway during 2011 about the ability of Kirby, Hussain, Meschede and our young spinners.
If either of the two seamers we have bought had been available last year to cover instead of David Stiff wouldn't we have jumped at the chance? Yet they are now not to be trusted with the job we bought them to do?
Long tail in that team, above. We probably won't lose all four guys to the IPL but the worry remains until the auction happens. Of course if we do lose 3 or 4 there's nothing to say that we will miraculously avoid a simultaneous injury or two, to others.
Also, whilst that team above looks okay, tail apart, for CC cricket, it looks less adept in the short stuff. Not that the short stuff is my priority, but still..
Also, whilst that team above looks okay, tail apart, for CC cricket, it looks less adept in the short stuff. Not that the short stuff is my priority, but still..
I would be very pleased with the team listed in Grockle's post of 28th 19.48. We have these youngsters on our books - lets use them. If they prove to be not up to scratch then we can move them on - they will surely understand. What they won't understand if they eventually leave without being given an opportunity to succeed. We can think of several over the years in similar situations who proved to be good enough WITH OTHER COUNTIES after we had nurtured them.
ANYWAY IS IT REALLY ALL ABOUT WINNING AT ANY COST? If we want to house a SUPERDUPPER INTERNATIONAL MERCENARIES XI in Taunton likely to win everything then enjoy it while you can. I won't be there to watch - I'll support our own INTERNATIONAL XI - England! and come back when a team mainly of Somerset and surrounding counties players are representing SCCC.
old boy!
ANYWAY IS IT REALLY ALL ABOUT WINNING AT ANY COST? If we want to house a SUPERDUPPER INTERNATIONAL MERCENARIES XI in Taunton likely to win everything then enjoy it while you can. I won't be there to watch - I'll support our own INTERNATIONAL XI - England! and come back when a team mainly of Somerset and surrounding counties players are representing SCCC.
old boy!
I think we're doing rather well.
Despite a few mishaps,and heaven help us,we're all entitled to a few of those along the way,the current management team have been absolutely magnificent.
Let's continue to show faith,not only in them but also in the youngsters who have done us proud.
A cricket dynasty is being built down in Taunton,let's apprreciate it whilst we're all still able.
Though maybe not as willing.
Despite a few mishaps,and heaven help us,we're all entitled to a few of those along the way,the current management team have been absolutely magnificent.
Let's continue to show faith,not only in them but also in the youngsters who have done us proud.
A cricket dynasty is being built down in Taunton,let's apprreciate it whilst we're all still able.
Though maybe not as willing.
Reminiscent of my dear old Nan. She couldn't resist coming out with all the 'doom & gloom' scenarios just so she could say 'told you so' if an unlikely event did happen.
It's almost like some form of personal protection (or even one-upmanship) when the person or organisation targeted can't afford the insurance premiums for that level of cover.
And at the same time it undermines the judgement of those tasked with taking the decisions, in this case a management team at SCCC that has more than proved its worth over the last four years.
It's almost like some form of personal protection (or even one-upmanship) when the person or organisation targeted can't afford the insurance premiums for that level of cover.
And at the same time it undermines the judgement of those tasked with taking the decisions, in this case a management team at SCCC that has more than proved its worth over the last four years.
I've yet to meet a "told ya so",either here or at Taunton.
Mind you,I may be telling a fib.
A pretty big fib actually.
Mind you,I may be telling a fib.
A pretty big fib actually.
A fib? You James?? Heaven forfend!
Yes - I think the Club are in a pretty good place at the moment. Let's enjoy it and not look for disaster scenarios.
Yes - I think the Club are in a pretty good place at the moment. Let's enjoy it and not look for disaster scenarios.
Oh, come on, there must be something to moan about.
Whatever happened to that Mr Lathwell? Moan, moan.
Whatever happened to that Mr Lathwell? Moan, moan.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as 'absolutely magnificent' BJ but they are getting quite high confidence marks when the question is asked "do you think they know what they are doing?"
And looking elsewhere in the counties we could be doing a hell of a lot worse.
One point AG comes up with that is pertinent is that we are going to have a 'long tail'. This is true. It will be longer than last year as we will only bat to number 7 before we start to see bowlers who hold it the right way around. (Max, Kirby, Hussain and Charl). I don't know how Leachy bats.
As far as injuries are concerned. We have cover in the bowling departments (no different to last year in fact) and I have not included Chris Jones, Callum Hagget or the winter development boys - Burke and Hayman - in the calculations.
But in balance our best top 7
Marcus, Arul, Nick, James, Jos, CraigK, PeterT when supplemented by MK and Alf do suggest it shouldn't be that much of a problem later in the season as long as the batsmen come and do their jobs. If Meschede gets a look in as a bowling batsmen then it could get even better
I'm very happy to go with what we have. Gouldy did say that we may find ourselves losing a measure of competitiveness as these new guys bed in and as OB says it may be that winning everything next year may have to take a backseat to ensuring that we are in winning positions for years to come.
Every county goes through it. Maybe last year was the pinnacle with the players we had and maybe the pinnacle for the next group is in 2012 or 13. I'm willing to wait if it is exciting and some of these newbies have me champing at the bit for some cricket.
We could all be wrong but at least we support an organisation that is willing to go for it and find out....
And looking elsewhere in the counties we could be doing a hell of a lot worse.
One point AG comes up with that is pertinent is that we are going to have a 'long tail'. This is true. It will be longer than last year as we will only bat to number 7 before we start to see bowlers who hold it the right way around. (Max, Kirby, Hussain and Charl). I don't know how Leachy bats.
As far as injuries are concerned. We have cover in the bowling departments (no different to last year in fact) and I have not included Chris Jones, Callum Hagget or the winter development boys - Burke and Hayman - in the calculations.
But in balance our best top 7
Marcus, Arul, Nick, James, Jos, CraigK, PeterT when supplemented by MK and Alf do suggest it shouldn't be that much of a problem later in the season as long as the batsmen come and do their jobs. If Meschede gets a look in as a bowling batsmen then it could get even better
I'm very happy to go with what we have. Gouldy did say that we may find ourselves losing a measure of competitiveness as these new guys bed in and as OB says it may be that winning everything next year may have to take a backseat to ensuring that we are in winning positions for years to come.
Every county goes through it. Maybe last year was the pinnacle with the players we had and maybe the pinnacle for the next group is in 2012 or 13. I'm willing to wait if it is exciting and some of these newbies have me champing at the bit for some cricket.
We could all be wrong but at least we support an organisation that is willing to go for it and find out....
me too..............your team posted above Grockle looks fine to me. I think Meschede has to be given his chance this year. That said, dependant on IPL movements etc we need a Kartik replacement. Overall.............I need some cricket!! Somerset cricket too!!
Well it's less than 100 days before Christmas so it'll get there soon enough.
Well, that's very candid of Mr Gould, Grockle.
One thing that can be said is that at least any youngsters that are brought in at the start of the season will be coming into a confident team - a team in which the youngsters are expected to contribute as opposed to necessarily being expected to excel straight off the bat.
We've seen in the past how difficult in can be for younger players to come into a team in which many of the senior players have been struggling.
One thing that can be said is that at least any youngsters that are brought in at the start of the season will be coming into a confident team - a team in which the youngsters are expected to contribute as opposed to necessarily being expected to excel straight off the bat.
We've seen in the past how difficult in can be for younger players to come into a team in which many of the senior players have been struggling.
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