Somerset
And so it begins....
How many Jumpers?!!
By Grockle
April 14 2011
The CC1 - the most important competition in this most important season - starts with Warwickshire at home (that's new as well). Mendis is here and in the starting eleven - must be like playing in Iceland for him. Steve kirby has also been passed fit.We have won the toss and will field. Grey, overcast but with a bit of warmth in the ground - not a lot of wind.
v Warwickshire CC1 @ Taunton Thursday 14 April 2011
The beginning of what many supporters hope (without voicing that hope for fear of jinxing it) will be our Championship season. We start the campaign with the strongest side we think we have given that two of our starting eleven, one would assume, are somewhere called Pune until the middle of may at the earliest and the start of June with the most pessimistic prediction.
The side for today is
Trescothick(c), Suppiah, Compton, Hildreth, Kieswetter(w), Buttler, Trego, Kirby, Hussain, Mendis and Willoughby. Adam Dibble has been named as 12th Man.
They face a Warwickshire side without their England stars of Bell and Trott and that may be why Banger has chosen to put them in after winning the toss. No Yousef because they haven't got his registration sorted - so we at least got ahead of that game this year.
There will be commentary - starting off with Bill and Julian on the usual link which can be found here or you can get to by clicking on the picture of Kartik on the website messageboard main menu.
The wicket is over to the Somerset Stand side of the ground in line with the middle of the Old Pavilion and the movable sight screen is in place on the Botham stand. Although it seems to be well over to the left it is in fact in the middle of the ground with no rope on either boundary - they go back to the boards.
It's 10:55 and we are ready to go. Chopra and Westwood are out in the middle and Charl is in from the OP as usual. Mendis is NOT wearing thermals..but Willoughby does have his 'Skins' on. No score off the bat but 1 leg bye is the result of the first over. The River End duties go to Gemaal Hussain who gets a generous welcoming round of applause and puts his first ball on the money against an attacking field from Somerset (3 slips and Gully). The new man gets a lot of bounce from his first over though they don't have to play at all of them. Nevertheless after two the 'Brummies' haven't got a run to their account off the bat - partly due to some excellent fielding from the Gully man Arul Suppiah.
Thise two partner up for his first wicket as well as Westwood pushes into a drive in the sixth over and Arul takes a low catch to his left. Porterfield comes out at 3. Hussain is on his way!!
After 10 overs the batsmen have moved the score on to 30 as Chopra finally gets off the mark after 27 balls with a pulled boundary to the scoreboard. Then Porterfield, who nearly lost his off peg to G's first ball, takes a liking to the man and belts him for two consecutive boundaries to the Somerset Stand. The eleventh over sees our other debutant takes the red missile from the Old Pavilion. Steve Kirby starts his tally for Somerset. Porterfiled flips the first dismissively away but he only goes for 1 off his first 6 balls and the score has only moved to 45 when the next change takes place as Peter Trego takes over from Hussain at the River for the 16th ( 7 overs 2 maidens 23 for 1 - not a bad start).
This however does seem to galvanise Chopra who deposits PT's ball 4 into the Somerset Stand to bring up the Warwickshire 50 with a six. But progress is slow and befofre the end of the first session we get our first look at Mendis as he takes over from Pete for the 26th over from the River. He holds the ball very low on his run up and bowls very straight. He doesn't take a wicket but possibly makes Porterfield lose concentration as he flips one from Charl to Compton in the next over and it is 85 for 2. What the little Sri Lankan does manage to do is bowl 3 no balls in his first 2 overs!! The 100 arrives in the 27th with the danger man Maddy in at the crease to join the solid but not that aggressive Chopra who has managed 35 in the session with 10 of them from boundaries.
I leave for an hour and what do I find when I come back? Not a lot has changed...well except the score which has gone to 234 for 2 with Chopra on 98 and Maddy on 56. No penetration by the Somerset bowlers in the time after the lunch break and 130 added to the score. Maddy has just been dropped in the slips by the skipper and that came after Chopra got hold of a no ball from Kirby and almost decapitated Hussain at midoff (he nearly instinctively caught it and it was flying). So... Maddy is being his usual awkward self and Mendis is on (in the 54th over) to see if he can dislodge him. As I type he bowls his 7th no ball - he produced 4 before lunch and 3 more afterwards. Four and a little bit an over but accumulation seems the name of the game.
Chopra goes to only his third century in his career (his other two were both against Glos) at the end of the 55th with the score on 246. A mammoth effort of 173 balls with less than 40 of those being scoring shots (14 fours and 2 sixes in there). A 23% completion rate! Almost immediately afterwards Mendis gets his first Taunton wicket as Maddy tries to sweep him and is bowled around his legs for 67 with 250 on the board.
The Warwickshire captain now joins the battle as Troughton comes out. But he doesn't stay long as Steve Kirby's workrate finally bears fruit and he gets one to lift to the skipper and Buttler snaffles the edge at second slip and the visitiors go to 259 for 4 with Jim walking back with 6 to his name. Quite a happy Mr Kirby it seems as he squats down and punches the air victoriously. Clarke is next man in.
He is rewarded by being taken off and Charl returns to the Old Pavilion to take us to the Tea interval and he nearly has Chopra LBW though the ball did look high. However at the other end Ajantha's problems persist as he bowls his 8th no ball and then allows Rikki to get off the mark with a six to the Somerset Stand. But he also doesn't last long although I think a replay may have suggested some batt hitting ground rather than leather. He is caught behind off Charl and possibly unfortunate to be - it's difficult without replays but Clarky wasn't impressed by "The Ghost". 273 for 5 Clarke out for 6. Lucky us I'd say because as someone said here "...it didn't look out". But it is and we have pulled this back a bit. No ball number 9 comes at the end of the 64th and we reach Tea at 276 for 5 - a conversation to be had with our slow man I think. 15 overs 1 for 85 with 9 no balls.....not match winning figures as of yet I would suggest.
After Tea some had a hope that we could get through the tail but although Ambrose was finally beaten by a ball that he snicked to Craig with a score of 40, he had helped Chopra to take the score to 369 with the centurion going past 150. Woakes also proved to be stubborn despite solid work by Charl Willoughby and Steve Kirby. Mendis continued to struggle to get his run up right and eventually after another 3 no balls he first attempted to bowl around the wicket and finally changed ends to take the penultimate over fromt he Old Pavilion. Gemaal could not maintain his early line and was punished in a short spell before the close by both batsmen.
The day ended with a solid victory for the visitors who went in at 416 for 6 and particularly for Chopra on an unbeaten 174. Three of our attack did themselves credit; Willoughby was good all day. Kirby wasn't far behind him and fired to the last ball. Pete was worth the 14 over investment event though he was wicketless. Hussain lost his focus a little at the end and his figures suffered for it but Mendis needs to look at his performance seriously because he got a lot wrong today - we have to hope it was a distinct lack of preparation, jet lag and nothing more.
Today was a disappointment but it is Day 1 of the season.....many more to come. Let's hope the majority are better.
Day 2
Comes a little later than expected courtesy of a little rain just as the sides were waiting to take the field. So we start at 11:15. However, the game soon sets itself up into a pretty familiar format. We bowl at Chopra and Woakes and they take few risks but seem to continue to add runs to the Warwickshire total which just gets bigger and bigger. Charl is still on the money and is passing the bat far more often. Gemaal is pumping out his own level of fire from the other end and getting lots of bbounce and carry but the opposition batsmen still aren't taking any chances and are very aware of where their stumps are and what to hit or not. There is one rash flash from Woakes in the first hour but he does not connect and the only significant change is that Varun Chopra finally reaches 200 off 330 balls in nearly 7 hours at the crease.
Mendis comes on from the OP and looks much more at home than he did yesterday, he's wearing thermal kit under his shirt this morning and whether he's just had some sleep or is a little warmer he is a different player this morning and has the batsmen thinking far more about his deliveries. He finally gets the next breakthrough and finishes the Chopra innings as the batsman finally misses a straight one and is judged LBW for 210 at 492. Is that it? Do Warwickshire collapse? Nope it just goes on. Woakes welcomes Ant Botha to the crease and they push on from 492 to just over 600 while taking himself over 100 to 124. He is then caught by Kirby off the bowling of Willoughby. Many are then expecting the declaration but it seems that the Brummies want to have a couople of goes at the Somerset front end either side of the tea interval and Miller is sent in to support Botha as he pushes towards 50 and the Warwickshire total moves towards the 650 mark. Miller is in trouble with Mendis but he survives and nurdles the ball about until the little Sri Lankan fools him with one and bowls him through the gate at 629.
Still no declaration and out comes Rankin (massive man) who he provides a partner for the increasingly confident Botha to take his 50 and finally attempt to six Mendis. He fails and simply plops the ball into Hussain's big hands. The pain is finally over and the visitors have amassed a huge total of 642. We will need 492 simply to make them bat again! It has not been a great first ganme so far...surely it can't get worse?
Up to Tea Marcus and Arul hold things together with Suppiah looking like the batsman in form and the skipper taking it easy. Woakes is getting prodigious swing in conditions that bear little resemblence to those of the first day but Miller from the River end cannot get the ball anywhere near the lefthanded Somerset opener and the Boss is leaving almost everything. Tea arrives with 37 on the board and the light suggesting there will be little play after the interval.
For Marcus that is true because when the sides return Miller seems to have sorted his line out and the captain pushes his third ball to Maddy in the slips and he's on his way. 45 for 1 and Compton is in with a big solid innings needed from him. Arul looks good and is confidently placing the ball between fielders and Nick seem to have his touch as well though his strokeplay is less free. But the loose stuff is going to the boundaries. However, the three Warwickshire bowlers; Woakes, Miller and Clarke are getting into their stride and causing the Somerset boys more trouble than we caused them. The ball is difficult to pick up in the poor light and is doing more off the pitch and in the air. However it takes a very good catch of a solid Suppiah cut shot to change the game. Clarke bowls and Chopra continues his brilliant game by snatching the speeding ball out of the air at gully and our best frontman today is on his way with 62 to his name and the score on 118.
Well it falls to bits then. Hildreth arrives but Compton misses a straight Woakes ball and is on his way for 18 at 122. He doesn't get into his stride before he is bowled by the same bowler for 5 at 123 and that isn't it as the next over sees the demise of newly arrived Buttler caught by the substitute keeper Johnson off Clarke with only one more run added. 123 for 4. It has all gone pear shaped and there are overs to go before the end. Craig Kieswetter and Peter Trego are at the crease, the Warwickshire bowlers are firing it in, the light is awful and we are nowhere near the end of the game some 400 odd runs away from any semblence of safety.
At 142, the worst possible thing happens as we lose the keeper for 9 and the tail is exposed as Gemaal strides out. Providence finally gives us something...the light is fading even further and the umpires finally put us out of our misery for the day by offering the light. 147 for 6!! This is NOT the start we expected to our season. It WAS the pitch the skipper thought he'd put the visitors in on but not the result he'd expected.
This is a disaster and we have two days to get something from it but it is simply going to be very difficult and don't expect Wawrickshire to take their foot off the throat and let us out easily.
Day 3 in 11 hours. Looking forward to it immensely!!
I commentated on the first session of the third day and in some ways I'm glad I did because I'm not sure I could have kept up with events had I been reporting this live. Pete and Gemaal came out to put something together before the follow on. Nothing more than that we were going to bat again so the only job in the morning was to occupy and get what you could. Peter, to some extent left in the lurch by his front end colleagues did his job, he hit anything loose and was solidly behind anything on target - which wasn't that much to be honest. Woakes was good and wild in equal measures, one close to the stumps followed by one swinging wildly to the 2nd or 3rd slip. Miller was getting bounce but was also punished for balls that gave the batsman too much space. Hussain did not look like a swashbuckling tailender but he stayed and there was not a lot more for him to do. After 20 minutes of resistance though he was found out and was caught in the slips off Woakes without scoring.
Steve Kirby was next in carrying the hope that he would be stubborn and would die for his wicket. Again he is no strokeplaying batsman but again all we needed from him was stoic resistance. We didn't get much because he went with one more run to the score again without worring the scorers to a gully catch off Miller. 164 for 7 became 165 for 8 and 200 looked a lonjg way away as Mendis came out.
It looked a lot better after Ajantha had driven Miller for four off the first ball he faced and put him into the wall of the Brewhouse for six off the second. He gave up the strike after taking the Warwickshire man for 13 off 3 balls and putting a small smile on the face of some dour and downtrodden Somerset watchers. It was semi agricultural at times but there were some guided and forceful shots from the new man and with Trigger he brought up the 200 before he was caught trying to guide the ball over the slips at 210 for a fiesty score of 28. In came our number eleven who stepped to leg, took a swing and was caught by Troughton coming in off the boundary. All out and following on for 210 with Trego second top scorer with 39 at 11:51
Debacle
11:56 and they are back for the long haul to the draw for Somerset. Marcus and Arul are on their way to the crease looking at a deficit of 432 on first innings. An hour to lunch and then 5 sessions for the draw but a strong line-up of players who would want to do better than in the first knock and show the reason why they have been tipped as the strongest batting line-up in the first division and possibly the strongest ever here.
Woakes and Miller continue and during the first 4 overs they bowl a mixture of wide legside and off side deliveries that move after the stumps or start wide and go wider. Once more the Boss hardly has to hit anything Miller send to him at the Old Pavilion end.
So the question is; how come we are 3 for 3 at the end of the third over chasing such a mammoth total? It seems simple from the watching point of view.
Arul Suppiah 1 bowled Woakes - leaves a slightly of line ball that shapes in and takes his off stump out of the ground with him in the worst position for a batsmen - bat above head offering no stroke. 2 for 1.
Nick Compton 0 LBW Miller - fails to hit a straight delivery from a man who couldn't find the wicket the over before 3 for 2
James Hildreth 0 LBW Miller - copies his departed team-mate to the same bowlere who stuns us all by getting 2 straight in a row. 3 for 3.
Lesson Number 1 - HIT THE STRAIGHT ONES!
Warwickshire had done this with alarming regularity for the 2 days before we didn't manage it twice in the same over.
Trescothick must have wondered why God had it in for him. He did get a break when he next faced and dismissed a leg side ball to the Botham boundary to take the score to 7. However it wasn't the start of something good as he guided Woakes to Porterfield at point from his next defensive shot and was gone for 5. 24 balls bowled Somerset 7 for 4.
Lesson Number 2 - DEFEND STRAIGHT LOOKING BALLS WITH A STRAIGHT BAT
A straight ball from a Somerset bowler (and there were many) to a visiting batsman was met with the full face of the blade and returned to the bowler or the mid off/mid on fielder. It happened for hours. In our first innings there were quite a number of defensive angled guides which found the hands of fielders or bounced dangerously close to them. In the second innings the same but the fielders were in position to take them.
Four overs down and the keepers are at the wicket with nothing to their names. A big revival was needed and Craig Kieswetter who had been taking batting practice up until four minutes before the start opf play seemed ready to oblige showing solid and determined defence agains bowlers who were starting to get their lines right and scenting the smell of a wounded animal.
Buttler also looked in the mood for a battle and although he was confidently driving, he was also concentrating on keeping the bowlers in check. Had we weathered a storm? The conditions were good and there was still a chance of something very special. But no...the angled defensive shot did for us again at 30 when Kieswetter decided there was something wrong with his bat and called for a change. He altered it and agrressively 'punched' the next ball to Porterfield at point and the next over Buttler squirted the ball from a different bowler (Clarke) to the same fielder who had come in a little and dived forward to take the catch. 34 for 6!
Clarke was the tightest bowler for his side although there was now the chance of seeing an allrounder make a century and take a ten-fer in a Championship since the Umpire David Milns did it in 1996. There was one less to worry about however before the end of the Clarke over (the 9th) as Hussain was caught completely in front with a straight one on the toes first ball! An awful debut for the man - his worst bowling figures and a double duck in his first Championship game! Pete must have wondered what the hell was happening as he walked out to bat again less than an hour after he had walked in undefeated as the first inning finished. Would we make it to lunch? Would we pass 50 - the lowest score here in an innings?
Steve Kirby was there again also looking a pair in the face but he managed to add 4 to the six Trigger managed to produce before he was caught behind off Clarke (well the umpire siad it came off the glove, I personally am not so sure but it was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things) at 44. Lunch came with not much more to expect after it. A disconsolate and vastly unimpressed crowd wandered out...I wasn't expecting to see many return.
If any did plan to return I hope they didn't finish lunch late because Mendis did not replay the "heroics" of the first time at bat. He hit a four off one of the four balls faced before he was caught by Troughton to give Clarke a well deserved four wickets and Rikki finished it off by making Charl's day with a king pair first ball skittling to finish the game with 5 sessions left (all but 10 minutes) as we slumped to an equal lowest score ever of 50 all out!!
260 in two full innings chasing 642. A loss by an innings and 382 runs. Not our worst ever Championship performance - but our worst since 1895 when Archie McLaren did for us it seems.
The sixth worst Championship defeat of all time and the worst post WWII.
Our lowest score in the 60 years since we equalled it at Edgbaston
What can you say. What is there left to say. It will hurt like hell and they need to remember how badly this hurts. Did they believe it couldn't happen twice? Welcome to the real world gentlemen. It will happen everytime you don't show application and technical ability with the bat and it doesn't matter really how good or bad the bowling attack is. I can't believe this was 'spineless' or 'gutless' as has been posted.
I'm more worried because it seemed 'clueless'. Four day cricket is a different animal and we'll never get to the top of it unless we learn that and apply ourselves for every ball and every minute of every day.
Warwickshire did that and had the luck of the green in terms of favourable conditions on days one and two but there is no excuse for day 3. NOTHING contributed to our second innings demise more than our own inadequacies in the face of pressure.
Liverpool next.... Bet Lancashire can't wait.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 14/04/2011 10:41
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14/04/2011 10:41
14/04/2011 10:41
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:20:22:27:01 by Grockle.
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Cricinfo says we have put Warwick in. There's positive intent at Taunton. It's up to Hussain Kirby Willow and Trig to do the business now. Off you go lads
If you are looking for Links. Besides the fact that they are on the Frontpage Story, they are also on the Message list page in the LARGE picture.
If you want Scorecards then click on Charl Willoughby's head
If you want Commentary then click on Murali Kartik
There are other links on the pictures but you'll have to find them. The addresses of the links appear at the bottom of the screen but have a little explore and see what you can find.
If you want Scorecards then click on Charl Willoughby's head
If you want Commentary then click on Murali Kartik
There are other links on the pictures but you'll have to find them. The addresses of the links appear at the bottom of the screen but have a little explore and see what you can find.
ECB have announced that both Ian Bell and Jonathan Trott will be rested until May 4th missing our first home game.Good news me think!!
[www.espncricinfo.com]
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Well, we will be depleted thanks to the IPL, so I don't think they can complain too much.
How will we be 'depleted' AG?
Unless Kirby is unfit we have a full seam attack.
Kartik is not there but Mendis is there as replacement.
Everyone else is available aren't they?
Unless Kirby is unfit we have a full seam attack.
Kartik is not there but Mendis is there as replacement.
Everyone else is available aren't they?
What about Thomas? Or is he no longer involved in the IPL?
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Unless Grockle is privvy to information that I am not, then we will be sans Alf.
But not "depleted" because we have bought in cover in the new signings or are Hussain and Kirby not up to the job of running the front line with Charl and is Peter not an adequate seam support? Do we not have a full seam attack?
A different line up definitely but "depleted" infers seriously weaker and I can't see that myself until the men actually play a game.
A different line up definitely but "depleted" infers seriously weaker and I can't see that myself until the men actually play a game.
I wonder if Younis Khan will be immediately available for Warks?
If not last year's batting line up plus Will Porterfield looks deeply suspect on paper. As you allude to, Grockle, the make up of the SCCC attack that will go out onto the grass to try to repeat last year's rout of Warks will be significantly different to the unit that secured the rout last season.
I was not necessarily meaning to imply that we will be seriously weakened, simply that we will have neither our regular overseas player nor our vice captain available to us.
If not last year's batting line up plus Will Porterfield looks deeply suspect on paper. As you allude to, Grockle, the make up of the SCCC attack that will go out onto the grass to try to repeat last year's rout of Warks will be significantly different to the unit that secured the rout last season.
I was not necessarily meaning to imply that we will be seriously weakened, simply that we will have neither our regular overseas player nor our vice captain available to us.
I would assume that when Alf and Murali are back that there will be some kind of rotation between the 3 seamers plus Alf and Murali, with supporting acts from PT and one other, so realistically we still look strong in the bowling department
Bell and Trott's ommission can only be good news, especially considering our last domestic match.
Looking ahead, Jimmy A will not feature for Lancashire in our second championship game at Liverpool and the Notts boys will be missing for our first pro 40 match at Trent Bridge.
I fancied our chances of starting with 2 championship wins anyway, and this news only increases my optimism. Nearly there now!
Looking ahead, Jimmy A will not feature for Lancashire in our second championship game at Liverpool and the Notts boys will be missing for our first pro 40 match at Trent Bridge.
I fancied our chances of starting with 2 championship wins anyway, and this news only increases my optimism. Nearly there now!
As long as the same situation does not affect James and Craig.
What would be brilliant is excellent form from the likes of Hussain, Kirby, Dockrell, Waller et al so that Alf and Murali have to fight to get back into the team when they do return!!
I'm not sure Charl will feature much int he one day and T20 stuff anyway so it might not be that much of a problem until July!!
What would be brilliant is excellent form from the likes of Hussain, Kirby, Dockrell, Waller et al so that Alf and Murali have to fight to get back into the team when they do return!!
I'm not sure Charl will feature much int he one day and T20 stuff anyway so it might not be that much of a problem until July!!
I don't think it will happen but I would be inclined to go to PT, right now, and tell him he will have a big bowling role in the opening games. I'd be tempted to use him as third seamer i,e, first change bowler. The bowling attack would be him, Mendis and two new ball bowlers, i.e two from three of Kirby, Willoughby and Hussain.
That would allow us to not have quite such a long tail. At the start of last season we went the other way and picked, in my view, too many bowlers. One of the results was that Pete barely got to bowl as I think we felt we had to bowl people like Stiff, having picked him, otherwise we'd look a little foolish picking a specialist bowler and then barely bowling him.
If we went the way I suggest we could get someone like Meschede into the opening XI. Brian seems very keen on him and I understand that he himself bowls seam as well as bats.
Assuming that early season conditions favour the ball, runs should be harder to come by than wickets...
That would allow us to not have quite such a long tail. At the start of last season we went the other way and picked, in my view, too many bowlers. One of the results was that Pete barely got to bowl as I think we felt we had to bowl people like Stiff, having picked him, otherwise we'd look a little foolish picking a specialist bowler and then barely bowling him.
If we went the way I suggest we could get someone like Meschede into the opening XI. Brian seems very keen on him and I understand that he himself bowls seam as well as bats.
Assuming that early season conditions favour the ball, runs should be harder to come by than wickets...
Equally, Lewis Gregory could be somebody we could get in there that can both bat and bowl ... him or Meschede.
And if our second game is at Liverpool we absolutely MUST get as much batting into the team as possible for that one.
Some of the games there tend to end in about 2 days! I really do not think that taking wickets there should be a problem!
Some of the games there tend to end in about 2 days! I really do not think that taking wickets there should be a problem!
Certainly Peter's role this year has to be larger with the ball and it might as well start at the beginning.
You really are obsessed with this batting tail aren't you?
Maybe the best thing to do is go and tell the top seven thay had better bat out of their skins or we'll lose because the number 8 isn't there to pull them out of the fire as he always has in the past!!
Have some faith man. You'll do yourself damage obsessing about number 8's batting average.
He may have to anyway if Steve is niggled to start with.
If you were bringing in another then I personally think it's time for Gregory in the CC and let Meschede work his way up from the one day games.
You really are obsessed with this batting tail aren't you?
Maybe the best thing to do is go and tell the top seven thay had better bat out of their skins or we'll lose because the number 8 isn't there to pull them out of the fire as he always has in the past!!
Have some faith man. You'll do yourself damage obsessing about number 8's batting average.
He may have to anyway if Steve is niggled to start with.
If you were bringing in another then I personally think it's time for Gregory in the CC and let Meschede work his way up from the one day games.
Honestly, it's not about a lack of faith in anyone, per se.
I just think that the better conditions are for bowling, the fewer bowlers you should need. Apart from anything else, easier bowling conditions should equal a smaller number of overs to divide amongst one's bowlers.
Conversely, the better conditions for batting, the more bowlers one should pick as you want to be able to maximise variety and/or allow bowlers to really slip themselves in short, sharp spells if wicket taking is going to be really difficult.
I really think that picking, as we did, FOUR main seamers, even though we also had Pete and Zander, for the first couple of games last season was a mistake. They were away games in the north/north midlands and so bowler-friendly conditions were always probable.
I just think that the better conditions are for bowling, the fewer bowlers you should need. Apart from anything else, easier bowling conditions should equal a smaller number of overs to divide amongst one's bowlers.
Conversely, the better conditions for batting, the more bowlers one should pick as you want to be able to maximise variety and/or allow bowlers to really slip themselves in short, sharp spells if wicket taking is going to be really difficult.
I really think that picking, as we did, FOUR main seamers, even though we also had Pete and Zander, for the first couple of games last season was a mistake. They were away games in the north/north midlands and so bowler-friendly conditions were always probable.
I've just had another cup of Earl Grey, the leaves tell all.
We win by an innings and 44 runs, Trigger is man of the match, scoring a rapid century and taking 5-33 in the first and 4-47 in the second.
Yes, I know, not up to his usual standard......but give him a chance, it is early season.
We win by an innings and 44 runs, Trigger is man of the match, scoring a rapid century and taking 5-33 in the first and 4-47 in the second.
Yes, I know, not up to his usual standard......but give him a chance, it is early season.
To paraphrase the late Bill Shankly -
"Some people think cricket is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.”
"Some people think cricket is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.”
I wish you'd put something stronger into your tea, BJ. That return from PT is pretty disappointing.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I don't like to gloat over another's misfortune but I can only see it as good news that Neil Carter will miss the first seven games of the season for Warwickshire with a pelvis injury.
Oh, dear.
Poor Neil.
Never mind.
Although actually pelvis injuries can be most painful.
Poor Neil.
Never mind.
Although actually pelvis injuries can be most painful.
Carter had a miraculous season last year. I would doubt he will be able to produce another year like that, having never previously done anything like it in his career.
Still, it seems that Warks will be seriously depleted.
I assume Chris Woakes will be able to play. And Younis Khan. So that would be two strong players available for them.
Still, it seems that Warks will be seriously depleted.
I assume Chris Woakes will be able to play. And Younis Khan. So that would be two strong players available for them.
Wickham
I heard something on TMS commentray some time in the last week or two that Warks were worried that Younis Khan might 'let them down' and not fulfil his deal.
Has anyone else heard this?
Id heard that Mohammed Yousuf or whatever his name is these days was in contention for their early season spot.
I think fitness with him is an issue though.
I think fitness with him is an issue though.
Not wishing to pick a fight, ronnie, but I wonder whether you (or anyone else) would refer to Cassius Clay as "Mohammed Ali or whatever his name is these days".
Well, I'll employ the name "Yousuf," as I think that has always been a part of either of his names, although I may have spelt it wrongly.
Anyway, I consider him a better player than Younis Khan.
He looked by far the best batsman on either side (despite all of Trott's success) in last year's Test series in England after they sent the SOS out for him to join their party.
Anyway, I consider him a better player than Younis Khan.
He looked by far the best batsman on either side (despite all of Trott's success) in last year's Test series in England after they sent the SOS out for him to join their party.
The dramatic fall from the heights suffered by the Australian Test team has been a hammer blow to a County's prospects of acquiring a decent and reliable overseas player that is likely to be available for an entire season.
Previously there were a good number of very good players that would almost certainly have played Test cricket had they been born elsewhere e.g. Jamie Cox that could be relied upon for this purpose as they were not going to be called up for international duty, due to the phenomenal strength in depth that the Aussies once had.
At the time of typing, almost any good Austrlian player is in at least one of their international teams and no other country has stepped up to the plate in terms of having similar depth in their game.
Previously there were a good number of very good players that would almost certainly have played Test cricket had they been born elsewhere e.g. Jamie Cox that could be relied upon for this purpose as they were not going to be called up for international duty, due to the phenomenal strength in depth that the Aussies once had.
At the time of typing, almost any good Austrlian player is in at least one of their international teams and no other country has stepped up to the plate in terms of having similar depth in their game.
No worries FE, but in fact I would. He is always Cassius Clay to me.............probably showing my age with that one right enough!!
For those of you who were wondering what would happen if both Craig K and Jos were called up for England duties;
Alex Barrow is listed in our squad as a wicket keeper.
I must have missed this but there is the backup.
Alex Barrow is listed in our squad as a wicket keeper.
I must have missed this but there is the backup.
And the irony is that it might not be impossible that both guys could get called up as batsmen only - it's not impossible.
Well I assume that Jos will keep tomorrow (not expecting Craig to play though I could be wrong)
It would be a very interesting situation if Alex suddenly appeared with the gloves!
It would be a very interesting situation if Alex suddenly appeared with the gloves!
Glo`shire call up three Academy players - Ian Cockbain, Liam Norwell and Michael Beard - for the three-day friendly against Somerset at Taunton tomorrow.
Also in the squad are new signings, New Zealand quickie James Fuller, and Will Gidman, brother of Alex.
The 12 are: Ian Cockbain, Chris Dent, Alex Gidman, Chris Taylor, Jon Batty, Will Gidman,James Fuller, David Payne, Liam Norwell, Jon Lewis, Ian Saxelby and Michaeal Beard.
Also in the squad are new signings, New Zealand quickie James Fuller, and Will Gidman, brother of Alex.
The 12 are: Ian Cockbain, Chris Dent, Alex Gidman, Chris Taylor, Jon Batty, Will Gidman,James Fuller, David Payne, Liam Norwell, Jon Lewis, Ian Saxelby and Michaeal Beard.
I don't recognise too many names either. Anyway the weather forecast I saw this morning for the coming week did not sound too good.
Somerset choose from the following 13 players:-
Marcus Trescothick, Arul Suppiah, Nick Compton, Jos Buttler, Pete Trego, Lewis Gregory, Craig Meschede, Alex Barrow, Adam Dibble, Gemaal Hussain, Max Waller, Calum Haggett and Charl Willoughby.
Marcus Trescothick, Arul Suppiah, Nick Compton, Jos Buttler, Pete Trego, Lewis Gregory, Craig Meschede, Alex Barrow, Adam Dibble, Gemaal Hussain, Max Waller, Calum Haggett and Charl Willoughby.
I hope they give an extra one of the younger players a game.. perhaps instead of Charl who sounds like he has already had a very productive bowl this pre-season and is unlikely to need much tuning up.
Has anyone seen Mendis yet around the ground?
Assuming he is available next week the top 7 will probably pick themselves, but has Gregory maybe done enough to be one of the 3 main seamers alongside Mendis and PT???
Assuming he is available next week the top 7 will probably pick themselves, but has Gregory maybe done enough to be one of the 3 main seamers alongside Mendis and PT???
Surely the three seamers must be Kirby,Hussain and Willoughby.I don't think Grgory has done enough yet but his chance will come.
Your probably right assuming Mendis is here and Kirby is fit.
Gregory has surely done enough in the friendlies so far to put himself next in line.
Gregory has surely done enough in the friendlies so far to put himself next in line.
Steve was warming up during the breaks in the friendly and said he was expecting to be bowling at full belt by this Friday and ready for next week.
He certainly looked fit and raring to go. Gemaal couldn't really have done more and Charl looked un-nervingly accurate.
Lewis certainly didn't disappoint with the bat or the ball and the other guys will have to be on their mettle to keep him out, especially if AG's expectation that the batting front end will struggle and we need a short tail :-)
He certainly looked fit and raring to go. Gemaal couldn't really have done more and Charl looked un-nervingly accurate.
Lewis certainly didn't disappoint with the bat or the ball and the other guys will have to be on their mettle to keep him out, especially if AG's expectation that the batting front end will struggle and we need a short tail :-)
Charl has been doing a lot of work on his batting over the winter so we may be in for a surprise.
Can't get down south this week so will be missing you all at the Vale; instead will be trotting along to Aigburth to suss out Lancashire in their temporary championship base.
See you all at the Warks match next week!
See you all at the Warks match next week!
When did it move?
Pretty sure it has only been advertised as being at Taunton Vale, i've not seen anything to suggest HQ???
Pretty sure it has only been advertised as being at Taunton Vale, i've not seen anything to suggest HQ???
I hope it hasn't been switched because the groundsmen want to do more work on the outfield.They were not too pleased with the game being played last week as the outfield needs time to bed in and it is patchy in places.
It is at the Vale ground as far as I know, the county ground didn't look ready to play cricket on against Gloucester.
We have no choice on the 14th.
We have no choice on the 14th.
That's what I thought Mike.We may be lucky with a few days nice weather before next thursday but any wet weather could hinder preparations.The relaying of the outfield was done as a last minute job with no real preparation at the end of last season.I suppose Mr Rose knows what he's doing!!
Weather now looks pretty fair. Maybe just the odd shower on thursday.Don't think shorts and tea shirts though
hope you are right nelliec. BBC forecast changes daily but I hope the one you saw is correct.
A fair bit of rain going through Wednesday which you would imagine would lead to a lack of prep on the wicket and subsequenty a green strip for maybe the first session at least. May be an important toss to win?
Lets keep our fingers crossed for the weather. If its cold and wetish I shall make frequent but short exploratory visits to St James St, and then scurry back to my den!
Just popped into the ground the covers are pulled off Thursday’s pitch letting the air get at it, I do hope the wind drops before match day it is bitterly cold just like yesterday. The county pitch looks like it is the flats side of central like last year.
They are doing the finishing touches on the ground around the new stand; there is no sign of any material going from the back of the stand to the Ondaatje Pavilion yet.
They are doing the finishing touches on the ground around the new stand; there is no sign of any material going from the back of the stand to the Ondaatje Pavilion yet.
Has anybody been on "Mendis watch" today?!
Any sign of him?
Timing of his exact arrival has seemed to be kept quite vague, i'll be happy when i see evidence of him at a TA1 postcode venue.....
Presumably main site will announce when he's landed, with the normal initial interview, how much he's looking forward to playing with us, helping us in quest for trophies, assisting our young spinners, how he's always wanted to play county cricket etc etc.....
Any sign of him?
Timing of his exact arrival has seemed to be kept quite vague, i'll be happy when i see evidence of him at a TA1 postcode venue.....
Presumably main site will announce when he's landed, with the normal initial interview, how much he's looking forward to playing with us, helping us in quest for trophies, assisting our young spinners, how he's always wanted to play county cricket etc etc.....
The latest I have on Mendis is that he is arriving tomorrow morning, that doesn’t leave him a lot of time to settle in.
Thanks Mike, i've heard weekend, early next week, Tuesday and now Wednesday morning, as i said i'll be happy when he hits a TA1 postcode.
His participation has to be in doubt Thursday if not arriving until tomorrow, it'll take him the afternoon to learn everyones name!
Harsh on Craig too as he'll get little/no chance to keep to arguably the most difficult spinner in the world to keep to.
As long as he gets 5 wickets Thursday i will not say another word.....
His participation has to be in doubt Thursday if not arriving until tomorrow, it'll take him the afternoon to learn everyones name!
Harsh on Craig too as he'll get little/no chance to keep to arguably the most difficult spinner in the world to keep to.
As long as he gets 5 wickets Thursday i will not say another word.....
I went over with my camera and didn't see any of the players, enquired about Mendis and was told arriving tomorrow.
He seems to have a bit of a reputation for getting to places in the knick of time so he should be used to it.
Craig won't have to worry as long as he hits the wickets and as to the language barrier - well we can just put him in Charl's hands and he'll have the necessary in minutes. It will all be with an Afrikaans accent but what the hell!
Craig won't have to worry as long as he hits the wickets and as to the language barrier - well we can just put him in Charl's hands and he'll have the necessary in minutes. It will all be with an Afrikaans accent but what the hell!
Anything on George Dockrell? Somewhere near fitness maybe.With overcast conditions forecast for most of the game MrRose may plump for a fifth seamer anyway.I wonder if Mendis is on a pay as you play contract.That would make any decision easier.
Ref the SL tour. The IPL players who would be involved are scheduled to leave on May 10 to travel to England so it looks likely that we will have Mendis for four CC1 games definitely but will be lucky to get him for the last one because the tour starts the same day that the 5th CC1 game finishes. The IPL guys want to leave India for SL on May 5
It may depend on whether the IPL authorities agree to losing Malinga, Jayawardene and Sangakkara (who are both captains of franchises). The way Malinga is bowling at the moment I don't think Mumbai will be over the moon at losing him!
It may depend on whether the IPL authorities agree to losing Malinga, Jayawardene and Sangakkara (who are both captains of franchises). The way Malinga is bowling at the moment I don't think Mumbai will be over the moon at losing him!
The provisional commentary rota for the Warwickshire game is as follows;
Day One
Bill Luckett and Julian Cattenach.
Tom Doyle and Eric Cole
Paul Bird and John Hamlin
Day Two
Chris Doyle and Eric Cole
Richard Oliver and Paul Bird
John Hamlin and Roy Kerslake
Day Three
Tom Doyle and Paul Bird
Julian Cattenach and Eric Cole
Roy Kerslake and Paul Harper
Day Four
Paul Bird and Tom Doyle
Richard Oliver and Bill Allaway
Roy Kerslake and Paul Harper
Day One
Bill Luckett and Julian Cattenach.
Tom Doyle and Eric Cole
Paul Bird and John Hamlin
Day Two
Chris Doyle and Eric Cole
Richard Oliver and Paul Bird
John Hamlin and Roy Kerslake
Day Three
Tom Doyle and Paul Bird
Julian Cattenach and Eric Cole
Roy Kerslake and Paul Harper
Day Four
Paul Bird and Tom Doyle
Richard Oliver and Bill Allaway
Roy Kerslake and Paul Harper
Just hope Mendis makes it in time!
Agree with Grockle that I don't think Craig has much to worry about. Mendis bowls very much wicket to wicket and I think most of his wickets will be bowled or lbw.
Craig might not know which way the ball is going but because Mendis only moves it a fraction, it ought to be possible for Craig to recover the situation even if he guesses wrong.
Agree with Grockle that I don't think Craig has much to worry about. Mendis bowls very much wicket to wicket and I think most of his wickets will be bowled or lbw.
Craig might not know which way the ball is going but because Mendis only moves it a fraction, it ought to be possible for Craig to recover the situation even if he guesses wrong.
Mendis has arrived..........hope he is worth it!!
Expected to play tomorrow with Dibble playing if Kirby isnt fit.
Expected to play tomorrow with Dibble playing if Kirby isnt fit.
Warwickshire will be without Mohammad Yousuf and Neil Carter for their opening match against Somerset at Taunton.
Pakistan batsman Yousuf is set to link up with the team during the game and will be available for the following championship fixture versus Worcestershire at New Road.
Carter, the Professional Cricketers’ Association’s player of the year for 2010, suffered a stress fracture of the pelvis on his return to pre-season training and will miss the first month of the season.
The 36-year-old all-rounder told ecb.co.uk: "I came back here and broke down on the second day, so it’s a bit frustrating.
“I’ve been out for a few weeks already, so it’s good that it happened in pre-season and not the start of the season. I’ve just got to keep working on my rehab and come back some time in May.”
Ireland captain Will Porterfield has been named in the Warwickshire squad following his winter move from Gloucestershire, but England duo Ian Bell and Jonathan Trott are both unavailable.
Pakistan batsman Yousuf is set to link up with the team during the game and will be available for the following championship fixture versus Worcestershire at New Road.
Carter, the Professional Cricketers’ Association’s player of the year for 2010, suffered a stress fracture of the pelvis on his return to pre-season training and will miss the first month of the season.
The 36-year-old all-rounder told ecb.co.uk: "I came back here and broke down on the second day, so it’s a bit frustrating.
“I’ve been out for a few weeks already, so it’s good that it happened in pre-season and not the start of the season. I’ve just got to keep working on my rehab and come back some time in May.”
Ireland captain Will Porterfield has been named in the Warwickshire squad following his winter move from Gloucestershire, but England duo Ian Bell and Jonathan Trott are both unavailable.
No Yousef,Carter,Bell,Trott.Let's roll them over!!
Squad to play Somerset tommorrow is:
Jim Troughton (Capt.)
Ian Westwood
Varun Chopra
Will Porterfield
Rikki Clarke
Tim Ambrose
Chris Woakes
Ant Botha
Andrew Miller
Boyd Rankin
Darren Maddy
Keith Barker
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:13:13:40:16 by nelliec.
Squad to play Somerset tommorrow is:
Jim Troughton (Capt.)
Ian Westwood
Varun Chopra
Will Porterfield
Rikki Clarke
Tim Ambrose
Chris Woakes
Ant Botha
Andrew Miller
Boyd Rankin
Darren Maddy
Keith Barker
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:13:13:40:16 by nelliec.
Somerset have also announced there squad of 12.CK batting at 5 ahead ofJos and PT.
Bowlers as expected with Dibble included if Kirby unfit
Bowlers as expected with Dibble included if Kirby unfit
Does anyone share the concern like me regarding numbers 8,9,10,11 in the batting order?
I hope that we dont have to rely on runs from down the order but i do remember on a few occasions last year that Thomas and Phillips certainly "chipped in" when runs were required or they were needed to hang around with someone from the middle order.
I just fear that Hussain,Mendis,Kirby and Charl could easily get knocked over in a short space of time.
Its only a thought!!!
COACH
I hope that we dont have to rely on runs from down the order but i do remember on a few occasions last year that Thomas and Phillips certainly "chipped in" when runs were required or they were needed to hang around with someone from the middle order.
I just fear that Hussain,Mendis,Kirby and Charl could easily get knocked over in a short space of time.
Its only a thought!!!
COACH
I think now we've got to put our faith in the first seven.
If it results in us getting bowled out cheap put our faith in eight to eleven to bowl us back in the game.I think that will result in a positive outcome more often than not.
If it results in us getting bowled out cheap put our faith in eight to eleven to bowl us back in the game.I think that will result in a positive outcome more often than not.
With Pete getting stacks of runs this season who needs a tailend?
If one to seven can't get us enough runs how are the
tail meant to get them?
If one to seven can't get us enough runs how are the
tail meant to get them?
Bro of...have you met AGod? He's been banging on about this for weeks. It's an issue but we pay the first 7 money to ensure that it isn't one we have to face.
I said to AG earlier in the week that we don't know what Mendis will do on English wickets (tho Sanath's experience from2005 doesn't suggest much) and Hussain has only one year at Glos to base a prediction on.
If the fron batting doesn't fire does it really matter in the grand scheme of CC1? If we can't get scores on the park we won't be cntenders anyway.
I said to AG earlier in the week that we don't know what Mendis will do on English wickets (tho Sanath's experience from2005 doesn't suggest much) and Hussain has only one year at Glos to base a prediction on.
If the fron batting doesn't fire does it really matter in the grand scheme of CC1? If we can't get scores on the park we won't be cntenders anyway.
I have just seen Mendis with Mr Rose I think he had just had a meeting with the press, I had no chance to take his photo they seem to be heading somewhere in a rush.
And it is now raining quite hard.
And it is now raining quite hard.
Couldnt be playing Warwicks at a better time, rain is their only hope, 3 days play should be plenty...
As religious leaders have said for centuries "Prepare to meet A God."
I don't think poor Mr G is saying that he has no faith in the top seven. However, accidents happen and a Ben Phillips can be useful, especially if conditions are difficult but ease off as the innings progresses.
Prayers for fine weather might be useful.
I don't think poor Mr G is saying that he has no faith in the top seven. However, accidents happen and a Ben Phillips can be useful, especially if conditions are difficult but ease off as the innings progresses.
Prayers for fine weather might be useful.
Feeling pretty confident about our prospects for the season & hope that the 1978/79 pattern is gleefully repeated.
Would really like to see us break from tradition & get off to a cracking start, weather permitting of course.
Good luck lads. Let's bring the silverware home this year.
Grizzzly
Would really like to see us break from tradition & get off to a cracking start, weather permitting of course.
Good luck lads. Let's bring the silverware home this year.
Grizzzly
It was a Damien Wright and Alfonso Thomas I seem to remember last year.
One could argue that the bowling attack is stronger in terms of wicket taking ability this year so the need for tailenders to be employed as "great batsmen" should decrease.
We also seem to have a number of batsmen who are not going into this season particularly "cold". Hildreth, Kieswetter, Gregory (if he plays), Trego, Compton et al.
As many have said. If it becomes a problem then the problem won't be the tail failing but the reason they were put in that position in the first place!
One could argue that the bowling attack is stronger in terms of wicket taking ability this year so the need for tailenders to be employed as "great batsmen" should decrease.
We also seem to have a number of batsmen who are not going into this season particularly "cold". Hildreth, Kieswetter, Gregory (if he plays), Trego, Compton et al.
As many have said. If it becomes a problem then the problem won't be the tail failing but the reason they were put in that position in the first place!
as you say Grockle we aint going to win anything if the first 7 dont fire so its up to them to do so.
Whilst it would be useful to have an 8 and 9 who could make a few, on the flip side our bowling should be stronger and it is as they say that bowlers win games batsmen set them up.
Who would have said this of a Somerset team only 2 years ago!!!
Whilst it would be useful to have an 8 and 9 who could make a few, on the flip side our bowling should be stronger and it is as they say that bowlers win games batsmen set them up.
Who would have said this of a Somerset team only 2 years ago!!!
Yes, the preparation for this season is entirely different than last season.
Good news about Mendis, less good news about the rain.
My prediction for the CC remains that we will win more games whilst simultaneously being easier to beat in these first 8 games.
Once Alf and Kartik return I would expect results to be similar to last year - I.e. some wins, quite a few draws, very few losses. Pre Alf and Kartik, I predict 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats. With Alf and Kartik, I predict 3 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat.
Overall, I will stick my neck out and predict seven wins, five draws and four defeats.
I won't predict a final position as that would mean predicting results for all teams!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:13:18:19:52 by AGod.
My prediction for the CC remains that we will win more games whilst simultaneously being easier to beat in these first 8 games.
Once Alf and Kartik return I would expect results to be similar to last year - I.e. some wins, quite a few draws, very few losses. Pre Alf and Kartik, I predict 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats. With Alf and Kartik, I predict 3 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat.
Overall, I will stick my neck out and predict seven wins, five draws and four defeats.
I won't predict a final position as that would mean predicting results for all teams!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:13:18:19:52 by AGod.
How very good of you. Hope your predictions come true AG
BUT only if everyone else has a worse record and we win the pennant.
I see no reason why we should be easier to beat in the first half of the season than last year. We have a supposed better bowling line-up. Our batting front end is more established and we have that mystery man that no-one has seen before.
But you stick to your guns old man I'm sure you'll keep us up to date with progress as the season unfolds. :-)
BUT only if everyone else has a worse record and we win the pennant.
I see no reason why we should be easier to beat in the first half of the season than last year. We have a supposed better bowling line-up. Our batting front end is more established and we have that mystery man that no-one has seen before.
But you stick to your guns old man I'm sure you'll keep us up to date with progress as the season unfolds. :-)
And so it’s the evening before our cricket season finally begins and very soon the phoney war will be over. I can’t tell you how excited I am, not only about our chances this season, but about the cricket season in general, the summer is truly on its way. Let’s hope and pray that all the words that have been written by a lot of people about this being Somerset’s season comes true. The team/squad looks a strong one, both batsman and bowlers, led by the best batsman playing county cricket. I look forward to my first live game at Nottingham and my first visit home in early May but most of all I look forward to seeing Tresco lift some silverware during and at the end of this season to banish watching the 5 days we lost “finals” over the last 2 seasons. To everyone lucky enough to go to the first game this week, enjoy and may the sun shine on you.
Good luck lads and don’t forget to do it for Somerset, England and St George........
Somerset La La La, Somerset La La La.
Wurz
Good luck lads and don’t forget to do it for Somerset, England and St George........
Somerset La La La, Somerset La La La.
Wurz
Grockle re; the 'better bowling attack,' I see it as potentially more penetrative and potentially less accurate without Alf, Kartik and Ben Phillips.
The four games that I think there will be in between Mendis and Kartik are the ones where control in the field might be at a premium with possibly only Charl being capable of longish defensive spells if Marcus needs them.
I hope that George Dockrell could come in, replace Mendis, and provide excellent control. But I'm not certain whether he will be fit by then?
Also, my comments on our other bowlers are based on their career records. So far as I know, Dockrell has no first class track record of which to speak so I can only guess based on his one day efforts.
The four games that I think there will be in between Mendis and Kartik are the ones where control in the field might be at a premium with possibly only Charl being capable of longish defensive spells if Marcus needs them.
I hope that George Dockrell could come in, replace Mendis, and provide excellent control. But I'm not certain whether he will be fit by then?
Also, my comments on our other bowlers are based on their career records. So far as I know, Dockrell has no first class track record of which to speak so I can only guess based on his one day efforts.
All set for a 7am departure from Liverpool. Fingers crossed for a clear run to Taunton. See you all tomorrow.
Mike - from memory I think Ajantha is about 24.
Incidentally, I like the news about Craig K batting at five.. Time to give him a position with a bit more responsibility.
Incidentally, I like the news about Craig K batting at five.. Time to give him a position with a bit more responsibility.
on Dockrell just read on his twitter account thingy that he doesn' t need an op and his scan results were good. Hopefully he can get back into action quickly now.
Quote:
"on his twitter account thingy"...
Great technology speak ronnies !
Grizzzly
"on his twitter account thingy"...
Great technology speak ronnies !
Grizzzly
All starts here then, lets get this thing off to a good start, not been this optimistic for a season since i started watching.
Cant win on paper but if they all play to their potential i can only see one outcome to this season.
April+May are absolutely crucial though, last years start just left us with slightly too much too do
CUM ON SUMERSET!!!
Cant win on paper but if they all play to their potential i can only see one outcome to this season.
April+May are absolutely crucial though, last years start just left us with slightly too much too do
CUM ON SUMERSET!!!
I am officially very excited.
I don't think Warwickshire will be a pushover but I am expecting us to win this game looking at the forecast,
Can't wait to see some action tomorrow - will try and get some pics.
I don't think Warwickshire will be a pushover but I am expecting us to win this game looking at the forecast,
Can't wait to see some action tomorrow - will try and get some pics.
I woke up this morning in sunny Newcastle feeling full of anticipation. My first watch will be Durham at the Riverside and then Warwick away so hope things will be well established by then
Are we OK for weather in Taunton and is it a win the toss and bat pitch.
Are we OK for weather in Taunton and is it a win the toss and bat pitch.
Good luck to the boys today to get us off to a flying start.
Just so nervous because of all the expectation.
We can but dream. Maybe it'll come true.
Just so nervous because of all the expectation.
We can but dream. Maybe it'll come true.
Am on my way to our glorious HQ now.
Looking forward to seeing a very important year for the club kick off in style.
Looking forward to seeing a very important year for the club kick off in style.
Obviously it's a win the toss and bowl pitch. I like the approach
5 overs in and no wicket yet - AG must be worried about how the season will go
We're doomed...
We're doomed...
6 overs and that "loose" bowling attack has given away 6 runs and taken the first wicket as Suppiah takes Westwood off Hussain.
The frontpage is being updated people so you can find out things on a semi regular basis from the ground rather than from Cricinfo.
The frontpage is being updated people so you can find out things on a semi regular basis from the ground rather than from Cricinfo.
Quote:AGod
Grockle re; the 'better bowling attack,' I see it as potentially more penetrative and potentially less accurate without Alf, Kartik and Ben Phillips.
The four games that I think there will be in between Mendis and Kartik are the ones where control in the field might be at a premium with possibly only Charl being capable of longish defensive spells if Marcus needs them.
I hope that George Dockrell could come in, replace Mendis, and provide excellent control. But I'm not certain whether he will be fit by then?
The "four games" I am assuming you are referring to are;
Durham CC1 (which Mendis may be available for)
Lancs CB40 @ Home
Sussex CC1 @ Hove
and
Yorks CC1 @ Home
Your statement seems to show no faith in the ability of our seam attack to bowl a tight line. That's Trego, Kirby, Charl Willoughby (who have championship averages) plus Hussain, Waller and Dockrell (who have very few years between them). There's also other factions involved (Meschede, Gregory, Dibble in the CB40 perhaps) so your prediction is open to other interpretations.
We don't know how Pune will do or when the two guys will be back. In fact we know little of where we'll be by then.
How does your prediction stand if the front five batsman hit form and murder attacks or are their averages not important in the analysis?
It's mere speculation and continues my point that you seem to rest your whole Championship season on the presence of two sub continental slow bowlers one of whom bats a bit.
We will simply have to do without them and win irrespective of their absence won't we?
Well, attack more economical than I'd feared BUT less penetrative than I had hoped, to judge from the scorecard so far..
"We don't know how Pune will do or when the two guys will be back. In fact we know little of where we'll be by then."
Have you heard anything about whether Kartik is again having a two week break after the IPL?
The career records of our other bowlers suggest that only Charl is somebody that a captain would feel entirely happy to turn to if the game was in a phase where he needed to "bottle up an end," as opposed to being in default "attack," mode. (during the phase post Mendis and pre-Kartik and Alf).
Hopefully, we will not often be in scenarios when we need to bottle up an end, though. BUT.. as is the case with the lower order batting SOMETIMES that is the kind of thing that is required. Kirby and Hussain were both quite a bit more expensive for Gloucs than Charl, Alf, Phillips and Kartik have been in their careers.
As for this game, I wonder if we will see Mendis soon?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:12:48:15 by AGod.
Have you heard anything about whether Kartik is again having a two week break after the IPL?
The career records of our other bowlers suggest that only Charl is somebody that a captain would feel entirely happy to turn to if the game was in a phase where he needed to "bottle up an end," as opposed to being in default "attack," mode. (during the phase post Mendis and pre-Kartik and Alf).
Hopefully, we will not often be in scenarios when we need to bottle up an end, though. BUT.. as is the case with the lower order batting SOMETIMES that is the kind of thing that is required. Kirby and Hussain were both quite a bit more expensive for Gloucs than Charl, Alf, Phillips and Kartik have been in their careers.
As for this game, I wonder if we will see Mendis soon?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:12:48:15 by AGod.
Well if any of us were under the illusion that this would be easy I think this morning proves just how hard work this is going to be this season.
It has been remarked upon in the past that bowling at Taunton is often hard work.
We rolled Warwickshire over easily last year BUT by the time we played them the form of their batsmen had prety much deserted them. So we cannot expect it to be anything like as easy this time.
That said, I can barely wait for Mendis to begin...
We rolled Warwickshire over easily last year BUT by the time we played them the form of their batsmen had prety much deserted them. So we cannot expect it to be anything like as easy this time.
That said, I can barely wait for Mendis to begin...
Can't argue with Trescothick's decision to field first. Looked an absolute green top made for seamers. Early days, but on this morning's evidence the ex-Gloucester lads will need to make this division's batters have to play more deliveries. I just wonder who wouldn't have been picked if Alfie had been available. As it stands the lower batting looks fragile. Is Dibble's pick as 12th man indicative that he is the next youngster expected to step up to the plate?
Dibble got a significant go in the final warm-up game, too, so quite possibly so?
I think Grockle said that he had been impressed with Dibble in the warm-up games last season?
As for the appearence of the pitch? If I had five pounds for every time I have read (in the paper or in Wisden) that a green-tinged pitch at Taunton did much less than expected for the seamer, I'd be a rich man.
What was your opinion, Old Boy - did the ball actually seam around a lot in the morning session?
I think Grockle said that he had been impressed with Dibble in the warm-up games last season?
As for the appearence of the pitch? If I had five pounds for every time I have read (in the paper or in Wisden) that a green-tinged pitch at Taunton did much less than expected for the seamer, I'd be a rich man.
What was your opinion, Old Boy - did the ball actually seam around a lot in the morning session?
Has Mendis got a no ball issue? He seems to have bowled 2 or 3 in a dhort space of bowling.
Need to get at them early doors this afternoon.
Need to get at them early doors this afternoon.
Im not that short sighted to suggest that we will rely on 8,9,10,11 but on occasions we will need them to hang in there with most likely Craig,Jos or Pete.
Im just concerned that we could lose the last 3/4 wkts quite quickly.
With what has been suggested by many people that this years Division 1 could be decided by the odd point (which we all know how that feels) those extra batting points up to 400 are always crucial.
COACH
Im just concerned that we could lose the last 3/4 wkts quite quickly.
With what has been suggested by many people that this years Division 1 could be decided by the odd point (which we all know how that feels) those extra batting points up to 400 are always crucial.
COACH
This is from the excellent Guardian county cricket blog
Richard Latham 1:19pm
Lunch at Taunton and Warwickshire can feel happy with 109-2 having lost the toss. Varun Chopra, who took 27 balls to get off the mark, later greeted Peter Trego's introduction into the attack with a pulled six over mid-wicket, and is 37 not out. Porterfield played fluently for 45 before losing concentration and carelessly clipping Willoughby off his toes straight to Nick Compton at sqare leg.
Mendis bowled three overs low trajectory spin before lunch and somehow contrived to send down four no-balls. But Somerset's main concern must be that the pitch, which looked a seamer's paradise, has offered precious little in the way of movement. Nothing new there at Taunton. Hussain's first spell brought him 1-23 from seven overs, but no joy for Kirby so far.
Those who bet on pork and beef won the carvery sweepstake, as did those who wagered on yours truly to be first in the queue, a short head winner from Graham Clutton of the Telegraph with local man Richard Walsh a fast finishing third.
[www.guardian.co.uk]
Richard Latham 1:19pm
Lunch at Taunton and Warwickshire can feel happy with 109-2 having lost the toss. Varun Chopra, who took 27 balls to get off the mark, later greeted Peter Trego's introduction into the attack with a pulled six over mid-wicket, and is 37 not out. Porterfield played fluently for 45 before losing concentration and carelessly clipping Willoughby off his toes straight to Nick Compton at sqare leg.
Mendis bowled three overs low trajectory spin before lunch and somehow contrived to send down four no-balls. But Somerset's main concern must be that the pitch, which looked a seamer's paradise, has offered precious little in the way of movement. Nothing new there at Taunton. Hussain's first spell brought him 1-23 from seven overs, but no joy for Kirby so far.
Those who bet on pork and beef won the carvery sweepstake, as did those who wagered on yours truly to be first in the queue, a short head winner from Graham Clutton of the Telegraph with local man Richard Walsh a fast finishing third.
[www.guardian.co.uk]
Viewing from the river end there was some movement, but IMO certainly early in the innings, the batsmen were able to leave too many balls which if directed at the wicket, might have caused one or two more problems.
Looking up at Derby I was pleased for Mark Turner (I know I didn't rate him, but he is a genuinely nice lad) - he bowled 3 overs for 4 runs. I just hope they were straight and that he gets some luck there.
Looking up at Derby I was pleased for Mark Turner (I know I didn't rate him, but he is a genuinely nice lad) - he bowled 3 overs for 4 runs. I just hope they were straight and that he gets some luck there.
Is anyone else having problems with our commentary? It was fine all morning but has got extremely intermittent after lunch despite numerous restarts. Have now resorted to the BBC West Midlands commentary which is working fine.
10 no balls so far is not really what we were hoping for
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:14:03:10 by Kingston Black.
10 no balls so far is not really what we were hoping for
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:14:03:10 by Kingston Black.
this is already in danger of running away from us. Mendis appears to have been cannon fodder, but they all have been to be fair.
Sounds like Marcus has been;
a) Taken in by the hue of the pitch, at least somewhat.
b) somewhat let down by his bowlers.
It rather sounds as if we've been undercooked for the first innings of the first game, as we were last season.
As I said, it's a very common occurrence for a green Taunton track to do not very much. Of course, sometimes a green pitch at Taunton DOES do a lot which makes a captain's decision somewhat tough..
a) Taken in by the hue of the pitch, at least somewhat.
b) somewhat let down by his bowlers.
It rather sounds as if we've been undercooked for the first innings of the first game, as we were last season.
As I said, it's a very common occurrence for a green Taunton track to do not very much. Of course, sometimes a green pitch at Taunton DOES do a lot which makes a captain's decision somewhat tough..
Sounds like the same old story to me.
A lot of meaningless verbosity pre - season about how we are favourites to win everything in sight; green pitches which do not appear to help the bowlers even if they manage occasionally to bowl line and length, and which invariably end up being as dead as a dodo with tailenders being able to score runs on a par with Geoff Boycott's granny batting with a stick of rhubarb.
We are all doomed by the way, doomed I tell ya.
BC - 10:4
PS - Taunton is killing cricket.
A lot of meaningless verbosity pre - season about how we are favourites to win everything in sight; green pitches which do not appear to help the bowlers even if they manage occasionally to bowl line and length, and which invariably end up being as dead as a dodo with tailenders being able to score runs on a par with Geoff Boycott's granny batting with a stick of rhubarb.
We are all doomed by the way, doomed I tell ya.
BC - 10:4
PS - Taunton is killing cricket.
And now it sounds like Marcus has been further let down by a dropped catch, as well. Not a great day to be skipper, thus far.
I'd suggest that we are probably already in one of exactly the situations I was mentioning earlier....namely a situation where the captain looks around and thinks "I need to bottle things up here."
I think Charl will end up doing a LOT of bowling today...
I think Charl will end up doing a LOT of bowling today...
I would suggest seome people might like to post less otherwise they'll never last the season![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
I know it's cold compared to Sri Lanka but I am nevertheless stunned by the number of no-balls that Mendis has bowled.
Really feel for Marcus... you cannot legislate for that as a skipper.
Really feel for Marcus... you cannot legislate for that as a skipper.
Quote:Nailsea_Fizz
I would suggest seome people might like to post less otherwise they'll never last the season
With luck this will be the worst day that we have in the field all season.
Great job by one of Grockle's colleagues in talking the batsman out!
Here's hoping Ajantha can settle down now!
Here's hoping Ajantha can settle down now!
AG - re; Mendis's no balls; maybe the wicket is longer in Taunton than he is used to?
It's amazing what a scorecard can tell people I have to say.
Not sure what the issue with Mendis is - it is the first time he'll have run in on this ground I would imagine. He's been in the country just over 24 hours by the way.
Was Marcus fooled by the wicket? Well not if Kirby's ball that has just taken Troughton is anything to go by....off a length off the edge and into the hands of Buttler at second slip for 6. I think it was a decent decision but maybe it didn't do as much as expected.
Chopra worked for his ton - he only scored off 40 balls out of 173.
Not sure what the issue with Mendis is - it is the first time he'll have run in on this ground I would imagine. He's been in the country just over 24 hours by the way.
Was Marcus fooled by the wicket? Well not if Kirby's ball that has just taken Troughton is anything to go by....off a length off the edge and into the hands of Buttler at second slip for 6. I think it was a decent decision but maybe it didn't do as much as expected.
Chopra worked for his ton - he only scored off 40 balls out of 173.
I am listening to your colleagues as well as looking at a scoreacard, Grockle, and have also borne in mind the things said by Old Boy who has been to see the game at the ground and what was written in the Guardian.
Still, things look a little bit better now, but would look a lot better if we could eliminate the centurion.
Still, things look a little bit better now, but would look a lot better if we could eliminate the centurion.
Nailsea: very good point (I know who you mean )
Agree with AG about greentops at Taunton not necessarily performinglike they might at Bristol, Derby or Trent Bridge - that's the sort of thing that makes it a great game.
Plenty of time to go - around 127 128ths of the season, by my rough calculations - and we're all doomed already!
)
Agree with AG about greentops at Taunton not necessarily performinglike they might at Bristol, Derby or Trent Bridge - that's the sort of thing that makes it a great game.
Plenty of time to go - around 127 128ths of the season, by my rough calculations - and we're all doomed already!
Grockle - I find that if you employ one of the "streaming options," as opposed to pressing the play button, the problems arise more infrequently. Not sure if others feel the same.
Question for Mr Lavender;
"Let's say you are in the job for ten years. Describe the club, as you would like it to be at the end of those ten years?"
Question for Mr Lavender;
"Let's say you are in the job for ten years. Describe the club, as you would like it to be at the end of those ten years?"
Over 10% of Warwickshires runs have come in no balls. Serious issues there im afraid.
Mendis brings up his 100!!!
COACH
Mendis brings up his 100!!!
COACH
36 in no balls is a bit of a joke to be honest.
Tresco talked about hitting the ground running...were the rest listening or just reading the Wisden Cricketer magazine
Tresco talked about hitting the ground running...were the rest listening or just reading the Wisden Cricketer magazine
Grockle - I agree with Agod re: streaming.
Using Windows Media Player I have yet to get the intermittent prob.
Using Windows Media Player I have yet to get the intermittent prob.
Sounds like there has been some fairly sloppy fielding today. Grockle's colleagues described some before tea too, and not only the dropped slip catch.
In spite of all the no-balls, I feel that Marcus's apparent strategy of trying to bowl Mendis into form i..e bowling him a lot today in spite (rather than because of) results has to be the right strategy?
I would guess that Mendis has never before bowled this badly and better to get all the rust out on day one!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:17:13:34 by AGod.
I would guess that Mendis has never before bowled this badly and better to get all the rust out on day one!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:17:13:34 by AGod.
42 boundaries in the day so far, in addition to all the no-balls.
I don't know if Marcus has a "captain grumpy," mode but I think the players should think themselves lucky that Justin Langer is not in charge...
I don't know if Marcus has a "captain grumpy," mode but I think the players should think themselves lucky that Justin Langer is not in charge...
We always talk a good game, but rarely deliver early doors, but there's a lot of overs left and I'm sure that many people will just be happy to be at cricket, once again.
I think you've hit a point there AG. Warwickshire have punished the bad stuff very effectively - most of the days bowling has been where it should be but Chopra, Maddy and Ambrose specifically have taken advantage of every ball not in the right place.
Hmmm......
Interesting Day 1 so far. At least we know it won't be a walkover for us this season then !
From afar, the scorecard suggests a rather underwhelming bowling effort, aside from CW.
Don't understand how a top rate slow bowler can bowl 12 no-balls in 23 overs.
Jet lag perhaps ?
Grizzzly
Interesting Day 1 so far. At least we know it won't be a walkover for us this season then !
From afar, the scorecard suggests a rather underwhelming bowling effort, aside from CW.
Don't understand how a top rate slow bowler can bowl 12 no-balls in 23 overs.
Jet lag perhaps ?
Grizzzly
Makes no real sense.
As a leg spinner myself I know that cold weather affects the rotation of the shoulder and leads to too many half trackers. But it's never, ever caused me to completely mis-lay my run-up!
It does make you wonder whether the club made a mistake in allowing Mendis to turn up only the day before the game... that's assuming there was no unavoidable delay on his flight or something of which we are unaware?
Warks must have every chance of 500+ and so it's probably very unlikely that we will win this particular match from here.
As a leg spinner myself I know that cold weather affects the rotation of the shoulder and leads to too many half trackers. But it's never, ever caused me to completely mis-lay my run-up!
It does make you wonder whether the club made a mistake in allowing Mendis to turn up only the day before the game... that's assuming there was no unavoidable delay on his flight or something of which we are unaware?
Warks must have every chance of 500+ and so it's probably very unlikely that we will win this particular match from here.
Not a very good day at the office! The bowlers haven't really applied themselves well enough.
Seems there have been too many 'buffet' balls all day and having a slow bowler who doesn't know where his feet are doesn't help.
Need to be much tighter than that be successful this season.
However - the only way is up!
Seems there have been too many 'buffet' balls all day and having a slow bowler who doesn't know where his feet are doesn't help.
Need to be much tighter than that be successful this season.
However - the only way is up!
Lets hope thats our worst day of the CC season over and done with......
Wurz
Wurz
Yes, AGod, at the most optimistic, this match has "Drawn Game" written all over it.
From afar, it would appear to have been a very disappointing first day of the season.
I wasn't there of course, but no doubt Messrs Hurry and Rose will be able to take some positives out of it.
From afar, it would appear to have been a very disappointing first day of the season.
I wasn't there of course, but no doubt Messrs Hurry and Rose will be able to take some positives out of it.
I'd suggest that Charl's usual consistency would have been the most obvious positive.
Oh well, we've lost Day One.
Let's go and win Day Two.
Hopefully I will turn up and witness a sterling performance in the afternoon.
Let's go and win Day Two.
Hopefully I will turn up and witness a sterling performance in the afternoon.
You'll make all the difference, Tuffers. I have faith in you.
You sound like a real coach: 'Win the morning session.' Then win the post-lunch session etc.
You sound like a real coach: 'Win the morning session.' Then win the post-lunch session etc.
It was a hard work day for both sides. Chopra worked damned hard for his total - lots and lots of patience. No joy for the bowlers and too many losses of concentration when the ball wasn't doing anything and the whole job was straight line and length.
A number of bowlers learned what hard work a day at the County Ground can be when nothing is happening.
I can't say I understand what Ajantha's problem was - he has a 9 step run up! Why couldn't he move back 2 paces, come in off that and adjust his bowling length just to stop the no balls. He didn't come around the wicket until he'd bowled 12!!
Gemaal learned the need for consistency across all sessions during the day - he started to stray in his after Tea spell.
Pete did not start loose and tighten - a good thing and he did get movement in the air.
Charl showed them how to do it all day and Steve Kirby worked very hard and kept the pressure on right to the end.
A number of bowlers learned what hard work a day at the County Ground can be when nothing is happening.
I can't say I understand what Ajantha's problem was - he has a 9 step run up! Why couldn't he move back 2 paces, come in off that and adjust his bowling length just to stop the no balls. He didn't come around the wicket until he'd bowled 12!!
Gemaal learned the need for consistency across all sessions during the day - he started to stray in his after Tea spell.
Pete did not start loose and tighten - a good thing and he did get movement in the air.
Charl showed them how to do it all day and Steve Kirby worked very hard and kept the pressure on right to the end.
Plenty of work for our batsmen to do to get back into this one even if we do knock them over quickly tomorrow. (we should be grateful that Bell & Trott have been stood down)
Unquestionably a very disappointing day, but there are still three days to go and if we can sneak some sort of first innings lead, who knows?
Unquestionably a very disappointing day, but there are still three days to go and if we can sneak some sort of first innings lead, who knows?
Had hoped to join you all there tomorrow, but it now seems my family have other plans. So I'm leaving the team in your more-than-capable hands, boys and girls - make it work for me!
Did people have any problems with commentary today?
Thanks for the info about Media Player but presently the info seems to be that the feed breaking up issue has been solved.
Thanks for the info about Media Player but presently the info seems to be that the feed breaking up issue has been solved.
Norwich .... Not to mention Mohammad Yousuf being unavailable too!
Effectively they are without half of their first-choice top six.
That being the case, I'm sure Marcus would have expected to have had a far, far better first day of the season in the field.
Let's keep everything crossed that the top 7 fire in both innings and that, if necessary, somebody from within the last four can hang around in support of a Craig, Jos or Pete.
Effectively they are without half of their first-choice top six.
That being the case, I'm sure Marcus would have expected to have had a far, far better first day of the season in the field.
Let's keep everything crossed that the top 7 fire in both innings and that, if necessary, somebody from within the last four can hang around in support of a Craig, Jos or Pete.
Yawn. Write the side off after 25% of Match 1 why don't you?
Batting for your life, who would you choose?
Marcus Trescothick or Mr Chopra?
Why should we not bat to 400 for 6?
So half of Warwickshire isn't there - so lucky us. If we are having a bad day then it's a good thing isn't it?
No...let's worry about what would have happened if they HAD been....why?
I personally hope they ARE there every time another side has a bad day this season. We get away with it and our opposition doesn't...all plus points for us I think.
Once again you seem to expect our batting to fail....on what basis?
Oh and Yousef's unavailability was Warwickshire's paperwork cock up so let's thank them for that also.
Why not let us bat first before you write us off? You may have a point but let's see it happen first before we expect it from a batting line up that is statistically superior to the opposition on a pitch that probably won't deteriorate.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:23:32:09 by Grockle.
Batting for your life, who would you choose?
Marcus Trescothick or Mr Chopra?
Why should we not bat to 400 for 6?
So half of Warwickshire isn't there - so lucky us. If we are having a bad day then it's a good thing isn't it?
No...let's worry about what would have happened if they HAD been....why?
I personally hope they ARE there every time another side has a bad day this season. We get away with it and our opposition doesn't...all plus points for us I think.
Once again you seem to expect our batting to fail....on what basis?
Oh and Yousef's unavailability was Warwickshire's paperwork cock up so let's thank them for that also.
Why not let us bat first before you write us off? You may have a point but let's see it happen first before we expect it from a batting line up that is statistically superior to the opposition on a pitch that probably won't deteriorate.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:23:32:09 by Grockle.
Day 1 Photos edited with new software.
V Chopra, Willoughby bowled well today Chopra getting a bottom edge and lucky not to play on.
V Chopra playing and missing another difficult ball from Willoughby.
R Clarke ct Kieswetter bld Willoughby I was told it came up off his boot, I couldn’t see that looking through the camera.
Celebrations after Suppiah caught Westwood off Hussian.
D Maddy bowled around his legs by Mendis. I wish he didn’t bowl so many no balls.
V Chopra, Willoughby bowled well today Chopra getting a bottom edge and lucky not to play on.
V Chopra playing and missing another difficult ball from Willoughby.
R Clarke ct Kieswetter bld Willoughby I was told it came up off his boot, I couldn’t see that looking through the camera.
Celebrations after Suppiah caught Westwood off Hussian.
D Maddy bowled around his legs by Mendis. I wish he didn’t bowl so many no balls.
Grockle - the point is that now we've leaked 400 plus it is now more likely that we will need numbers 8 through 11 to do a job with the bat.
If Warks had been shot out for 200 then it would probably not matter if 8 through 11 contributed only about 20 between them. Now? Even if our top 7 do make 400 between them, which is perfectly possible, we'd still need a reasonable contribution from 8 through 11 in order to get a lead on first innings.
If Warks had been shot out for 200 then it would probably not matter if 8 through 11 contributed only about 20 between them. Now? Even if our top 7 do make 400 between them, which is perfectly possible, we'd still need a reasonable contribution from 8 through 11 in order to get a lead on first innings.
And no, I'm not saying the top order will 'fail.'
For example, few people would consider 350 runs fro
a top 7 a 'failure.' BUT if our top 7 'only,' make 350 between them, then we will be behind on first innings UNLESS that lower order can surpass expectations.
For example, few people would consider 350 runs fro
a top 7 a 'failure.' BUT if our top 7 'only,' make 350 between them, then we will be behind on first innings UNLESS that lower order can surpass expectations.
Have to say Mendis owes us some runs with the bat. Perhaps he can get those 36 that he gave up in no-balls!?
How many would you expect a side to get in a Championship match from 94 overs AG? What would be a non 'leaking' score be?
What would you expect a superior batting line-up to get on a pitch that has allowed the inferior line-up to score for 94 overs?
On what do you base the assumption that our batting will underscore Warwickshire? Their bowling attack? Our poorer ability?
Would you expect us to score off more than 30% of the balls we faced?
I don't reject the possibility that we may fail...I simply don't expect it before I see us face a ball with a bat in our hands.
What would you expect a superior batting line-up to get on a pitch that has allowed the inferior line-up to score for 94 overs?
On what do you base the assumption that our batting will underscore Warwickshire? Their bowling attack? Our poorer ability?
Would you expect us to score off more than 30% of the balls we faced?
I don't reject the possibility that we may fail...I simply don't expect it before I see us face a ball with a bat in our hands.
Terrific photo's Mike. Fantastic detail.
Grizzzly
(P.S. Can your new software fix it for us to knock over the last four wickets for ten runs, then us score 500-4 at close tomorrow ?!)
Grizzzly
(P.S. Can your new software fix it for us to knock over the last four wickets for ten runs, then us score 500-4 at close tomorrow ?!)
AGod, are you really saying we have picked a too attacking team because the evidence from the first day is we will need all the bowling we can get?
The top seven are strong and perfectly capable of doing the job. We shouldn't get hung up on whether the number 8 can score runs, it's wickets we need.
Our season, like any other for Somerset will turn on to what degree we can counter the batting friendly nature of the Taunton pitches and take wickets.
Last season we made a breakthrough in rebalancing the square but it needs good bowling as well. the problem at Taunton is partly the speed of the scoring, i.e batsmen do not have to work hard for their runs and most attacking shots go for 4. A case for longer boundaries perhaps?
The top seven are strong and perfectly capable of doing the job. We shouldn't get hung up on whether the number 8 can score runs, it's wickets we need.
Our season, like any other for Somerset will turn on to what degree we can counter the batting friendly nature of the Taunton pitches and take wickets.
Last season we made a breakthrough in rebalancing the square but it needs good bowling as well. the problem at Taunton is partly the speed of the scoring, i.e batsmen do not have to work hard for their runs and most attacking shots go for 4. A case for longer boundaries perhaps?
I think Mendis's performance can only be 'jetlag'- a very much under rated problem. If he's only had about 24-36 hours here, with hindsight, it wasn't a good idea to pick him. I haven't read anywhere that he's had a no-ball problem, or have I been reading the wrong papers?
On what basis do you say that the Warwickshire batsmen found it easy to score today KT?
Have you looked at Chopra's innings stats? He didn't score for 27 balls. He made 100 scoring off less than 30% of the balls he faced. He scored 150 in around 5 hours with 2/3rds of his runs coming from just 24 balls in 270 plus. How is that easy run scoring?
He didn't get out but he didn't get there with ease and at times it was truly painful for everyone.
The only guy who got his strike rate above 70% was Maddy. It was NOT a batting paradise with Warwickshire batsmen just flowing runs without effort.
We did not "leak" runs particularly (Willoughby, Kirby and Trego went collectively for 3.7 per over for 55 overs).
What did happen is that we DID NOT take wickets and
Ajantha owes us a big game now - maybe we shouldn't have asked so much of him in his first 24 hours?
Have you looked at Chopra's innings stats? He didn't score for 27 balls. He made 100 scoring off less than 30% of the balls he faced. He scored 150 in around 5 hours with 2/3rds of his runs coming from just 24 balls in 270 plus. How is that easy run scoring?
He didn't get out but he didn't get there with ease and at times it was truly painful for everyone.
The only guy who got his strike rate above 70% was Maddy. It was NOT a batting paradise with Warwickshire batsmen just flowing runs without effort.
We did not "leak" runs particularly (Willoughby, Kirby and Trego went collectively for 3.7 per over for 55 overs).
What did happen is that we DID NOT take wickets and
Ajantha owes us a big game now - maybe we shouldn't have asked so much of him in his first 24 hours?
Grockle - you said it yourself on commentary - going for over 4 an over is simply too much on almost any surface.
On your commentary stint, I thought you said 'And it's on leg stump,' or 'it's down leg-side,' with worrying regularity.
Based on economy rate, only Charl can really be happy today, I would say.
My Wisden arrived today, Grockle, so I will have a look to see how often we leaked 400+ runs in a day last season. I'd guess the answer might be zero.
On your commentary stint, I thought you said 'And it's on leg stump,' or 'it's down leg-side,' with worrying regularity.
Based on economy rate, only Charl can really be happy today, I would say.
My Wisden arrived today, Grockle, so I will have a look to see how often we leaked 400+ runs in a day last season. I'd guess the answer might be zero.
The answer is that only once last season did any attack get blasted for more than 4 an over in a first innings at Taunton... Somerset made 517 off 118 overs against Notts.
Essex scored at slightly more at four an over but only because Compton and Hildreth engaged in declaration bowling, so you can throw that out.
I think the only innings of 400+ against SCCC at Taunton last season was 405 by Yorkshire. It took them 131 overs to get those runs.
So... Compared to last season, at least, we can indeed say, Grockle, that this was a 'leaky,' performance.
Perhaps it will be par for the course for batting teams to score at more than 4 an over at Taunton this season? Time will tell.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:22:32:39 by AGod.
Essex scored at slightly more at four an over but only because Compton and Hildreth engaged in declaration bowling, so you can throw that out.
I think the only innings of 400+ against SCCC at Taunton last season was 405 by Yorkshire. It took them 131 overs to get those runs.
So... Compared to last season, at least, we can indeed say, Grockle, that this was a 'leaky,' performance.
Perhaps it will be par for the course for batting teams to score at more than 4 an over at Taunton this season? Time will tell.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:22:32:39 by AGod.
Andy Hurry is already talking about whether we should declare at 400 or 'bat on on this pitch.'
This would seem to imply that he thinks the pitch a dream for batting.
The official explanation for so many poor balls from Mendis was that the prominent seam on the Duke ball made life tough for him .. He has never bowled with it before.
The official explanation for the no-balls is that there is no explanation. Let's face it.. None of us could really think of one, either!
This would seem to imply that he thinks the pitch a dream for batting.
The official explanation for so many poor balls from Mendis was that the prominent seam on the Duke ball made life tough for him .. He has never bowled with it before.
The official explanation for the no-balls is that there is no explanation. Let's face it.. None of us could really think of one, either!
Well I'm sorry AG but I said no such thing.
If it goes down leg side it is an immediate problem if they score off the ball...they managed that less than 50% of the time.
Anyway your point is? Did I suggest the bowling was good?
I think I also used the terms "full and straight" quite a lot as well...did you miss those references or weren't you listening for them? I talked about the solid defence of Ambrose and Chopra against many good balls. Were you making tea at those times perhaps?
I don't think our discussion has much to do with today being good. My point about is your assumption that tomorrow is going to be bad for our batsmen and the basis for that assumption.
Kirby also went for less than 4 an over - why is this bad? Again does that simply not fit with your statement that Charl was "good" and everyone else was "bad"?
We did not penetrate and therfore bowled for 96 overs. We went at 4.3 runs per over across that. Over half the overs bowled (55) went for 3.7 per over (Charl, Steve and Pete). The rest went for 5.2 (Gemaal and Ajantha).
Take Ajantha out of the equation and the bowling attack went for 4.06 runs per over.
Talk about Mendis "leaking" runs by all means. Talk about Hussain not maintaining consistency over the whole day...but please don't overstate your case or tar the whole attack with your specific brush.
Do the research by all means... tell us all if you really have to. Not sure what you expect to prove by it but knock yourself out if you wasnt to.
Bad day? Yep.
Game losing day? No evidence yet.
Indication of some terrible future in 2011? Not proved in my personal book
If it goes down leg side it is an immediate problem if they score off the ball...they managed that less than 50% of the time.
Anyway your point is? Did I suggest the bowling was good?
I think I also used the terms "full and straight" quite a lot as well...did you miss those references or weren't you listening for them? I talked about the solid defence of Ambrose and Chopra against many good balls. Were you making tea at those times perhaps?
I don't think our discussion has much to do with today being good. My point about is your assumption that tomorrow is going to be bad for our batsmen and the basis for that assumption.
Kirby also went for less than 4 an over - why is this bad? Again does that simply not fit with your statement that Charl was "good" and everyone else was "bad"?
We did not penetrate and therfore bowled for 96 overs. We went at 4.3 runs per over across that. Over half the overs bowled (55) went for 3.7 per over (Charl, Steve and Pete). The rest went for 5.2 (Gemaal and Ajantha).
Take Ajantha out of the equation and the bowling attack went for 4.06 runs per over.
Talk about Mendis "leaking" runs by all means. Talk about Hussain not maintaining consistency over the whole day...but please don't overstate your case or tar the whole attack with your specific brush.
Do the research by all means... tell us all if you really have to. Not sure what you expect to prove by it but knock yourself out if you wasnt to.
Bad day? Yep.
Game losing day? No evidence yet.
Indication of some terrible future in 2011? Not proved in my personal book
Did I say anything about a terrible future this season? No.
I also don't remember saying we'd lose this game.
What you said on commentary, Grockle, was that any bowler going for more than 4 was too many. Therefore, it logically follows that going for more than 4 as a team is also too many.
Last season, you stated on quite a few occasions that the difference between SCCC in 2010 vs what you'd seen before was that we bowled much more tightly and that seemed to make a big difference. The numbers from last season certainly supported your contention.
One general aside that might amuse some - Wisden has a weather chart which shows how good a weather summer each County had... Sussex enjoyed the finest weather. And Somerset?
Our weather came second..
I also don't remember saying we'd lose this game.
What you said on commentary, Grockle, was that any bowler going for more than 4 was too many. Therefore, it logically follows that going for more than 4 as a team is also too many.
Last season, you stated on quite a few occasions that the difference between SCCC in 2010 vs what you'd seen before was that we bowled much more tightly and that seemed to make a big difference. The numbers from last season certainly supported your contention.
One general aside that might amuse some - Wisden has a weather chart which shows how good a weather summer each County had... Sussex enjoyed the finest weather. And Somerset?
Our weather came second..
I'm sorry but I repeat I said no such thing because I don't particularly agree with that statement.
You have to look across the whole bowling attack to get the big picture so the statement you place in my mouth would not necessarily hold.
I had no conversation with John or the CEO about runs per over between Tea and the end of the day.
I also did not say you said either of the statements you then put in my mouth again they were my assessments of today not yours - it has nothing to do with my initial discussion with you on here anyway. That was about batting
What has my statement from last year - which I agree with - go to do with a discussion about our batting ability on day 2 of this game?
Please try and stay on the point of this...my comments to you today are about your assessment of Somerset's ability to bat tomorrow. Not the quality of bowling today in relation to figures from 2010.
You have to look across the whole bowling attack to get the big picture so the statement you place in my mouth would not necessarily hold.
I had no conversation with John or the CEO about runs per over between Tea and the end of the day.
I also did not say you said either of the statements you then put in my mouth again they were my assessments of today not yours - it has nothing to do with my initial discussion with you on here anyway. That was about batting
What has my statement from last year - which I agree with - go to do with a discussion about our batting ability on day 2 of this game?
Please try and stay on the point of this...my comments to you today are about your assessment of Somerset's ability to bat tomorrow. Not the quality of bowling today in relation to figures from 2010.
My assessment of Somerset batting tomorrow is that it is now more rather than less likely that numbers 8-11 will have an important role to play.
I agree our top 7 might score 500 between them. However, I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to EXPECT that of them. Last season I think only James and Marcus averaged more than 40. Most seasons, most teams would be happy if their top 7 each averaged 40. If our top 7 make an average score of 40 tomorrow, that's 280 runs. If the average score across the top 7 is 50 runs, that's 350 runs from the top 7. That would STILL leave work to do for numbers 8-11.
What do I think will happen tomorrow? I think Warks will total about 460 (mainly through their current partnership and the next one.) And I think our top 7 will score about 350 runs between them... Which would mean that to win this game we would need to bowl out of our skins second time around and/or numbers 8 to 11 will need to do well with the bat.
I agree our top 7 might score 500 between them. However, I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to EXPECT that of them. Last season I think only James and Marcus averaged more than 40. Most seasons, most teams would be happy if their top 7 each averaged 40. If our top 7 make an average score of 40 tomorrow, that's 280 runs. If the average score across the top 7 is 50 runs, that's 350 runs from the top 7. That would STILL leave work to do for numbers 8-11.
What do I think will happen tomorrow? I think Warks will total about 460 (mainly through their current partnership and the next one.) And I think our top 7 will score about 350 runs between them... Which would mean that to win this game we would need to bowl out of our skins second time around and/or numbers 8 to 11 will need to do well with the bat.
Once again the Taunton pitch will probably prove to be our downfall.
We are disadvantaged from Day 1 of the season.
Last year there was an improvement in the pitches in that they provided a better balance between bat and ball. If, this season, they revert to be akin to those of 2009 and before, then Rosey may have no option but to order the whole damn lot to be dug up next Winter.
And if that should happen, why wait for the usual two years before they can be played on again? A clatter of wickets falling in a day make for interesting cricket.
We are disadvantaged from Day 1 of the season.
Last year there was an improvement in the pitches in that they provided a better balance between bat and ball. If, this season, they revert to be akin to those of 2009 and before, then Rosey may have no option but to order the whole damn lot to be dug up next Winter.
And if that should happen, why wait for the usual two years before they can be played on again? A clatter of wickets falling in a day make for interesting cricket.
Fine, as an opinion that seems like...an opinion. Just don't try and base it on statistical back up because that would have probably given Chopra a score of about 45 today.
And on that basis and your earlier example of Sidebottom as tail end "stayer" you have shown that actually you have NO idea what our 8 - 11 will do IF they are put in the position you think likely.
So thanks for your "half-empty" assessment and goodnight :-)
And on that basis and your earlier example of Sidebottom as tail end "stayer" you have shown that actually you have NO idea what our 8 - 11 will do IF they are put in the position you think likely.
So thanks for your "half-empty" assessment and goodnight :-)
Quote:Clarence Parker
Once again the Taunton pitch will probably prove to be our downfall.
We are disadvantaged from Day 1 of the season.
Last year there was an improvement in the pitches in that they provided a better balance between bat and ball. If, this season, they revert to be akin to those of 2009 and before, then Rosey may have no option but to order the whole damn lot to be dug up next Winter.
And if that should happen, why wait for the usual two years before they can be played on again? A clatter of wickets falling in a day make for interesting cricket.
Brilliant!
Please God don't let KT see this!
But if he does I hope he notices the winking icon at the bottom or that thread will re-appear from about 6 pages back and it will be like we have never been away!
I know what the numbers say about 8-11 with the bat, Grockle. As you say they might surprise us in this innings or match or in some other match. It's unlikely that their performances over time will surprise us, however.
13th and 14th April is Buddha new year. Maybe Ajantha was suffering jet lag and celebrated the new year. Just a thought.
Sri Lanka being a Buddhist country same as here in Land of Smiles.
Sri Lanka being a Buddhist country same as here in Land of Smiles.
not a good day by any means. If Mendis hasnt used this type of ball before why the hell was he not practising with it before he arraived. Could he not get them over there? If he thinks he is good enough without practice then that is arrogance in the extreme.
Anyway the sign of a good team is how they respond to adversity. I think we have a good team and I at least expect a response to this tomorrow.
Anyway the sign of a good team is how they respond to adversity. I think we have a good team and I at least expect a response to this tomorrow.
And I know it's time for bed and the stats say nothing that has any factual certainty so you are simply stating...an opinion of what might happen
Chopra...surprise
Sidebottom...surprise
Nite
Chopra...surprise
Sidebottom...surprise
Nite
Yeah, Romnie, I'm assuming that the stuff about the Duke ball has come from Mendis himself as opposed to being some kind of guess by Andy Hurry. If Hurry were to have guessed at problems he would surely have guessed at jet lag and cold, as many here did.
Let's hope SCCC bat for a very long time in this match ... and that Mendis spends most of that time getting used to the Duke.
Sri Lanka must be very pleased with their decision to allow Mendis some county games to get used to the ball because with no Murali and Mendis bowling like that they'd be in real trouble. They will be hoping he's used to the Duke by the end of his stint with us.
Let's hope SCCC bat for a very long time in this match ... and that Mendis spends most of that time getting used to the Duke.
Sri Lanka must be very pleased with their decision to allow Mendis some county games to get used to the ball because with no Murali and Mendis bowling like that they'd be in real trouble. They will be hoping he's used to the Duke by the end of his stint with us.
In other news, I note that Saqlain says that Brian has asked him to play in the second XI at an unspecified time next month.
I wonder if Brian is considering fielding Saqlain post Mendis and pre Kartik in the first XI? Perhaps playing him in a second XI game is Brian's way of assessing his fitness and form?
I wonder if Brian is considering fielding Saqlain post Mendis and pre Kartik in the first XI? Perhaps playing him in a second XI game is Brian's way of assessing his fitness and form?
He may want to see how his batting is going with a view to boosting the tail.
Well, at 477 for 6, we had better hope that this is one of those Taunton tracks that used to have Justin Langer moaning to the press about how it was "impossible," to win games on it.
And if we bat on the final day, let's hope that, as Langer moaned about at the time,' "It doesn't matter what bowler you have - even Murali - you cannot bowl a team out."
And if we bat on the final day, let's hope that, as Langer moaned about at the time,' "It doesn't matter what bowler you have - even Murali - you cannot bowl a team out."
Quote:Grockle
Did people have any problems with commentary today?
Thanks for the info about Media Player but presently the info seems to be that the feed breaking up issue has been solved.
I certainly suffered from the intermittent break up of the commentary yesterday Grockle, but having seen the suggestions of others to move from the browser feed to the live stream I fired up VLC media player and no more problems. Still working perfectly throughout this morning's session as well.
KB
Cannot listen at the moment (not due to a problem with the feed) - but have his first couple of overs today suggested that Mendis has sorted himself out? I make it 2 overs, 1 for 3, which is rather a lot better than yesterday.
Does he look much better and more settled and accurate?
Does he look much better and more settled and accurate?
AG - it is certainly an amusing aside that we came second last year in yet another table. The weather "stakes".
I wonder, was it close?
30 mins less sunshine - or an inch more rain perhaps?
btw - your public correspondance with Grockle makes for fine entertainment.
I wonder, was it close?
30 mins less sunshine - or an inch more rain perhaps?
btw - your public correspondance with Grockle makes for fine entertainment.
Quote:nelliec
Personally I would rather see Max than the other two options?
I'd rather see Blackie and Wes Durston.
Well there's always Chester le Street and Derby :-) Old chestnuts about old chestnuts.
I must admit this game has lost it for me. It does remind me a lot of 2/3/4 years ago when you couldn't get a wicket at Taunton. Is our bowling that bad?
We'll soon find out when we bat when we have scoreboard pressure to contend with.
We'll soon find out when we bat when we have scoreboard pressure to contend with.
I cannot believe our bowling is THAT bad, Ronnie.
I think we bowled too many four balls yesterday and gave away more runs than we should have done. But I strongly suspect that today is just a mill-pond pitch with no assistance for any kind of bowler.
Warwickshire are NOT a powerhouse batting team (at least not without Bell, Trott, Yousuf) so this score suggests a total pancake of a pitch.
I think we bowled too many four balls yesterday and gave away more runs than we should have done. But I strongly suspect that today is just a mill-pond pitch with no assistance for any kind of bowler.
Warwickshire are NOT a powerhouse batting team (at least not without Bell, Trott, Yousuf) so this score suggests a total pancake of a pitch.
Not really. There is no help from the pitch...no wind, little movement and measured and sensible batting from the opposition.
Blub - I think we finished 11 points behind the "winners," Sussex, in the weather stakes.
I think we got 643, to Sussex's 654. This is out of a notional maximum score of 1,000.
I say notional because the highest score ever recorded was 800 in Surrey in 1976.
I'm afraid I have not bothered to consult an old edition of Wisden which explains exactly how the results are calculated.
I can tell you, though, that Somerset's summer was some 43 points better than the long--term average for our County. This was the greatest differential (compared to the norm) for any county last season. As such, it might provide a tiny part of the explanation for why we had possibly the best cricketing season that we have ever had.
I think we got 643, to Sussex's 654. This is out of a notional maximum score of 1,000.
I say notional because the highest score ever recorded was 800 in Surrey in 1976.
I'm afraid I have not bothered to consult an old edition of Wisden which explains exactly how the results are calculated.
I can tell you, though, that Somerset's summer was some 43 points better than the long--term average for our County. This was the greatest differential (compared to the norm) for any county last season. As such, it might provide a tiny part of the explanation for why we had possibly the best cricketing season that we have ever had.
Maybe Warks will be a powerhouse batting line up this year, who knows.
Well, they could not realistically do worse with the bat than they did last season. I believe I'm correct in saying that, statistically, they were the worst batting line-up ever seen in Division One (if measured by batting bonus points accrued.)
So I suppose to be more accurate they were the worst first-innings batting side in Div ONe history, by that measure.
So I suppose to be more accurate they were the worst first-innings batting side in Div ONe history, by that measure.
It's certainly a bit of a blow to find something that is apparently as flat as this after a number of excellent games at Taunton last year.
Moreover, one suspects that if we had been tighter yesterday we might yet have been in position to have at least a shot at winning this. For example, if we'd bowled Warwickshire out for 380 before the close, there might have been every chance of then making 700 today and tomorrow.
Wasn't it this lot who were on the receiving end of James's triple hundred two years ago? James has obviously improved as a player since then, so I cannot imagine that they are looking forward to bowling to him!
Moreover, one suspects that if we had been tighter yesterday we might yet have been in position to have at least a shot at winning this. For example, if we'd bowled Warwickshire out for 380 before the close, there might have been every chance of then making 700 today and tomorrow.
Wasn't it this lot who were on the receiving end of James's triple hundred two years ago? James has obviously improved as a player since then, so I cannot imagine that they are looking forward to bowling to him!
lets wait and see AG. All this talk of us getting 500/600 whatever is a little premature and Im sure the Warks bowlers will be pumped up for this.
Lets be honest this whole game has been a diappointment from every conceivable aspect so we need to tread carefully.
Im sure this has been a reality check at least for the supporters as to where we might get to this season and even for the players too, although god knows why they would need a wake up call.
Lets be honest this whole game has been a diappointment from every conceivable aspect so we need to tread carefully.
Im sure this has been a reality check at least for the supporters as to where we might get to this season and even for the players too, although god knows why they would need a wake up call.
James took them for 140 odd in a low scoring game last year, too!
Ronnie - I take your point. But then I did wonder why Mr Hurry was openly talking about whether or not we should declare at 400 or "bat on, on this pitch," before we'd even faced a ball. I think today's events have answered that question... namely that only severe lapses of concentration or herculean bowling efforts are likely to lead to wickets on this.
It might be that Marcus bowled first not because he expected lavish movement but because he had accurately forecast a bit of movement on day one and absolutely nothing on day two.
Ronnie - I take your point. But then I did wonder why Mr Hurry was openly talking about whether or not we should declare at 400 or "bat on, on this pitch," before we'd even faced a ball. I think today's events have answered that question... namely that only severe lapses of concentration or herculean bowling efforts are likely to lead to wickets on this.
It might be that Marcus bowled first not because he expected lavish movement but because he had accurately forecast a bit of movement on day one and absolutely nothing on day two.
Mendis= 4 wickets. Great bowler, whats all the fuss.
Now we will see what the wicket is like. What is it they say "you don't know until the other side has had a bat"
Ah well 500 is the target!!!
Now we will see what the wicket is like. What is it they say "you don't know until the other side has had a bat"
Ah well 500 is the target!!!
cricinfo is suggesting we've taken our ball home and headed in for the day.
"Stumps," apparently...
"Stumps," apparently...
and Grockle's colleagues seem to think Arul was "bowled," although the ball went for four without dislodging the bails.
so our bowlers are rubbish then?
Warks must be feeling confident now after getting Tres out. Im a great admirer of Suppiah but would rather have Tres batting out there.
Not a great game for the skipper
Warks must be feeling confident now after getting Tres out. Im a great admirer of Suppiah but would rather have Tres batting out there.
Not a great game for the skipper
It sounds like conditions have changed..... and the assistance is through the air.
If it's sunny tomorrow, then I assume it will go back to the "road," conditions that seemed to predominate this morning.
Still think we could/should have done better with the ball yesterday, though.
If it's sunny tomorrow, then I assume it will go back to the "road," conditions that seemed to predominate this morning.
Still think we could/should have done better with the ball yesterday, though.
we could lose this tomorrow at this rate!!!
I said last night good teams come out fighting after a bad day............we seem to have come out with a whimper and that disappoints me greatly
I said last night good teams come out fighting after a bad day............we seem to have come out with a whimper and that disappoints me greatly
Conditions have definitely changed this afternoon. Wall to wall cloud, ball moved from the first ball from Woakes.
It's dark and the new rules will keep them out there, difficult to pick the ball up from the boundary. Miller has sorted his line out - couldn't get anywhere near the wicket before Tea.
Lots of playing and missing. Excellent catch to take Arul who looked good. Compton missed a straight one - something non of the Warwickshire batsmen did.
123 for 3 with 13 to go.
It's dark and the new rules will keep them out there, difficult to pick the ball up from the boundary. Miller has sorted his line out - couldn't get anywhere near the wicket before Tea.
Lots of playing and missing. Excellent catch to take Arul who looked good. Compton missed a straight one - something non of the Warwickshire batsmen did.
123 for 3 with 13 to go.
Sorry 123 for 4.
Hildreth played on to a short one. Buttler in, follow on calling out our name whether we have a number 8,9 10 or 11 or not.
Hildreth played on to a short one. Buttler in, follow on calling out our name whether we have a number 8,9 10 or 11 or not.
Another bad day at the office by the looks of things.....
Wurz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:19:27:44 by WaresWurzel.
Wurz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:19:27:44 by WaresWurzel.
unless it rains or the light is so bad then its curtains here. can we bat for two days?
May not be so much conditions but bad bowling..I assume it was cloudy too yesterday, anyway you look at it its not good enough.
At least we know you can take wickets at our HQ even though they its not our bowlers doing it
May not be so much conditions but bad bowling..I assume it was cloudy too yesterday, anyway you look at it its not good enough.
At least we know you can take wickets at our HQ even though they its not our bowlers doing it
124 for 5 Buttler caught behind by sub keeper Johnson off Clarke. Pressmen looking for more words on this game as we teeter some 360 runs from the follow on total.
Bit of a leveller this game of cricket isn't it?
Bit of a leveller this game of cricket isn't it?
I can't think that Tres had done anything wrong. 99% of the people at the ground on Thurs at 11am would have fielded because we have been fed the information that we have signed two bowlers seeking glory from Gloucester, plus a mystery slow bowler from the orient.
The bowling I have seen from Warwickshire's youngsters who have been fed into their system and allowed to learn in previous seasons, makes me think that unless there is a vast improvement from our opening attack in the next game or two, we must start that difficult but essential transition, to see how good our second stringers are.
All is not lost yet on the batting front, but by their averages we can only expect about 30+ total from the last four.
The bowling I have seen from Warwickshire's youngsters who have been fed into their system and allowed to learn in previous seasons, makes me think that unless there is a vast improvement from our opening attack in the next game or two, we must start that difficult but essential transition, to see how good our second stringers are.
All is not lost yet on the batting front, but by their averages we can only expect about 30+ total from the last four.
well at least we wont be favourites for the title after this.
I imagine that will fall on Durham after these round of matches with Notts pushing them hard.
We will have our usual British eurovision contest number of points at this stage
I imagine that will fall on Durham after these round of matches with Notts pushing them hard.
We will have our usual British eurovision contest number of points at this stage
The big question now is;
IS this a seaming greentop and did we flatter to decieve yesterday bowling straight balls but making the ball do nothing.
Are the Warwickshire bowlers taking advantage of the changing conditions and the light or are they getting out of this pitch what was always there?
I'm not sure that the conditions have changed that much. The light IS poor and it is hard to pick up the ball but there is a lot going past the bat off the pitch.
I agree OB - the pitch yesterday suggested that either side would have put the other one in but we produced nothing like the problems with the ball that we now find ourselves facing.
I'm afraid I don't have an answer - the pitch looked benign before lunch, it didn't look much worse up to tea but Kieswetter has just been caught by Clarke off Woakes with a pearler that went away from him and took the edge. 142 for 6.
Hussain in...8 overs to go until the pain ends.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:00:45 by Grockle.
IS this a seaming greentop and did we flatter to decieve yesterday bowling straight balls but making the ball do nothing.
Are the Warwickshire bowlers taking advantage of the changing conditions and the light or are they getting out of this pitch what was always there?
I'm not sure that the conditions have changed that much. The light IS poor and it is hard to pick up the ball but there is a lot going past the bat off the pitch.
I agree OB - the pitch yesterday suggested that either side would have put the other one in but we produced nothing like the problems with the ball that we now find ourselves facing.
I'm afraid I don't have an answer - the pitch looked benign before lunch, it didn't look much worse up to tea but Kieswetter has just been caught by Clarke off Woakes with a pearler that went away from him and took the edge. 142 for 6.
Hussain in...8 overs to go until the pain ends.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:00:45 by Grockle.
when you think of it Andy Hurry's comment about deciding whether to pull out at 400 or whether to bat on is quite laughable and arrogant in the extreme.
Who do they think they are that they can just pitch up and get that type of score and take it as read. Its no wonder we are struggling with that type of attitude. You have to fight and scrap for everything in this game and if you take it for granted then thats when the trouble starts...i.e at present.
Who do they think they are that they can just pitch up and get that type of score and take it as read. Its no wonder we are struggling with that type of attitude. You have to fight and scrap for everything in this game and if you take it for granted then thats when the trouble starts...i.e at present.
No, we won't - we got 2 bowling pts.
Still, there's nothing like a batting collapse to bring out the posters...Blimey, you lot are looking up Div Two fixtures for next year already - there's still at least 126 128ths of the season left, you know.
Still, there's nothing like a batting collapse to bring out the posters...Blimey, you lot are looking up Div Two fixtures for next year already - there's still at least 126 128ths of the season left, you know.
They've always talked a good game, which is why the agm's are so successful. Now it's time for the talking on the pitch.
if you are going to be pedantic SP so will I.
Div 2 fixtures not out yet!!
Div 2 fixtures not out yet!!
Well I do have to say that Miller couldn't find the wicket with a compass before Tea but has bowled beautifully since. Woakes has found swing and Rikki Clarke is their best bowler by a mile. I don't think anyone has gone to a particularly daft shot.
Off for bad light.
495 behind and 346 extra to save the follow on and the game probably. Trego 10 Hussain 0.
Abandoned for the day.
Phew-ish Pray for rain.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:14:36 by Grockle.
Off for bad light.
495 behind and 346 extra to save the follow on and the game probably. Trego 10 Hussain 0.
Abandoned for the day.
Phew-ish Pray for rain.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:14:36 by Grockle.
Looks like we'll get all of two points out of this game, unless rain intervenes. As bad a start to the season as it's possible to envision.
Is this a hangover from last season and the way it ended? That should not affect Hussain, Kirby or Mendis though?
There are clearly questions to be answered, not least why were we content to let Mendis turn up one day before the first match?
I said I thought Durham should be CC favourites and I'm afraid this impending loss to a team that I think will finish nowhere near the top does not suggest that we will be the kind of juggernaut that the media were making out we were going to be.
Is this a hangover from last season and the way it ended? That should not affect Hussain, Kirby or Mendis though?
There are clearly questions to be answered, not least why were we content to let Mendis turn up one day before the first match?
I said I thought Durham should be CC favourites and I'm afraid this impending loss to a team that I think will finish nowhere near the top does not suggest that we will be the kind of juggernaut that the media were making out we were going to be.
Miller impressed me last year when I was down for the Warks game at Tauntom. Looks like he knew what he was doing.
Maybe the step up from Div 2 is too much for Kirby and Hussain and the gap is bigger than we think.
Maybe the step up from Div 2 is too much for Kirby and Hussain and the gap is bigger than we think.
I've always thought the gap is huge. I've also thought in recent years that if you cannot bowl at Bristol you cannot bowl anywhere. But Kirby has tremendous heart and has had one big performance at Taunton before. Hussain? Realistically we've taken a flier on a guy with one Div Two season behind him. Time will tell whether the gamble will pay off.
no way we are favourites now, as I say that lies with Durham and Notts etc.
We need to take one session at a time now, stop reading papers, magazines etc and put in performances. Hildreth /Kieswetter need stop thinking about England and deliver for us first. Kieswtetters Somerset record is shabby since his selection and he needs to get his head round he aint going to play international cricket scoring waht he does for us.
Big test for Marcus and his motivational and management skills. He can start by making 200 in the second dig!!
We need to take one session at a time now, stop reading papers, magazines etc and put in performances. Hildreth /Kieswetter need stop thinking about England and deliver for us first. Kieswtetters Somerset record is shabby since his selection and he needs to get his head round he aint going to play international cricket scoring waht he does for us.
Big test for Marcus and his motivational and management skills. He can start by making 200 in the second dig!!
"Looks like we'll get all of two points out of this game, unless rain intervenes. As bad a start to the season as it's possible to envision."
Why does it look like that?
Have they changed the rules so we don't get a second innings?
It doesn't look anything like "that" until we are in this position again in a day's time.
There are 15 batsmen to get out and 2 days of play in which to hold this game together before this one is over.
Nothing like a good defeatist attitude to instill hope in the supporting public.
Well done guys keep the faith. Analyse the problems by all means but don't pull the plug with only 50% of the game over
I assume as you have given this one up we'll read nothing else from you in the next couple of days?
Why does it look like that?
Have they changed the rules so we don't get a second innings?
It doesn't look anything like "that" until we are in this position again in a day's time.
There are 15 batsmen to get out and 2 days of play in which to hold this game together before this one is over.
Nothing like a good defeatist attitude to instill hope in the supporting public.
Well done guys keep the faith. Analyse the problems by all means but don't pull the plug with only 50% of the game over
I assume as you have given this one up we'll read nothing else from you in the next couple of days?
Kirby was the second best bowler yesterday in terms of economy. He bowled minor spells today - think he was feeling the injury and it wasn't worth pushing it with the score where it was.
So not sure why he is suddenly a poor buy - unless his injury record is poor - shall we go for that one?
Hussain was always a punt based on his lack of a record but the best punt in the country at the time and we were credited with making an astute long term investment.
But hey write him off after half of one home game if you want to.
Why aren't we ripping into the international as well? Has he got some armour that keeps his performance up to now out of the comments? Let's book his flight back because he obviously can't deal with Spring conditions in England - let's send him to the SL training camp and save the money.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:37:03 by Grockle.
So not sure why he is suddenly a poor buy - unless his injury record is poor - shall we go for that one?
Hussain was always a punt based on his lack of a record but the best punt in the country at the time and we were credited with making an astute long term investment.
But hey write him off after half of one home game if you want to.
Why aren't we ripping into the international as well? Has he got some armour that keeps his performance up to now out of the comments? Let's book his flight back because he obviously can't deal with Spring conditions in England - let's send him to the SL training camp and save the money.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:37:03 by Grockle.
I fully expect us to bounce back and do well. It is a shame however, that just for once in the first game we can't be the dominant team.
We are seen as the team to beat Botham. Warwickshire have many problems and have lost more players than we have. I think it's a bit of pride from the Brummies and guys playing for their places against absent internationals perhaps.
They want it more than us?
They expected it to be harder than we did?
They got the rub of the green and have used the conditions they were given better?
Lots of things. Personally I hope there is some 'kicking' going on in the Somerset dressing room presently and Kirby's level of 'fire' is evident in more players from tomorrow onwards.
In some ways this is possibly a very welcome wake-up call for some players who may believe what the press are saying about them before they put in the performances to prove the words are worth it.
There wasn't an air of complacency but today has been hard for our squad and they have to learn from it starting at 11 tomorrow morning. This game is by no means over but the fight has to start immediately.
They want it more than us?
They expected it to be harder than we did?
They got the rub of the green and have used the conditions they were given better?
Lots of things. Personally I hope there is some 'kicking' going on in the Somerset dressing room presently and Kirby's level of 'fire' is evident in more players from tomorrow onwards.
In some ways this is possibly a very welcome wake-up call for some players who may believe what the press are saying about them before they put in the performances to prove the words are worth it.
There wasn't an air of complacency but today has been hard for our squad and they have to learn from it starting at 11 tomorrow morning. This game is by no means over but the fight has to start immediately.
Grockle - your own post of 18.09 says pray for rain. Why did you write that if not because you too believe we will need rain to save us? Are your flowerbeds dry?
Btw.. I'd rather NOT have the rain. I'd rather guys get time in the middle and get runs under their belt. We'd get 3 more points if it rains but we'd just have guys without a first class score behind them for game 2.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:57:02 by AGod.
Btw.. I'd rather NOT have the rain. I'd rather guys get time in the middle and get runs under their belt. We'd get 3 more points if it rains but we'd just have guys without a first class score behind them for game 2.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:18:57:02 by AGod.
Grockle - nobody said Kirby was a bad signing.
Equally, nobody has 'written Hussain off,' I simply said he's a gamble and time will tell if it pays off... How did you twist 'time will tell if it pays off,' to 'written off.'
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:19:00:53 by AGod.
Equally, nobody has 'written Hussain off,' I simply said he's a gamble and time will tell if it pays off... How did you twist 'time will tell if it pays off,' to 'written off.'
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:19:00:53 by AGod.
We managed to compete despite losing the first two championship matches last season. It is hard to see us escaping from this one as we still need to batting after tea on the fourth day. (assuming we don't avoid the follow on!)
However, if conditions return to normal, we need to put a repeat performance of the Durham game a couple of years ago. (when we trailed by about 500 on first innings but managed to bat a day and a half to save the game)
However, if conditions return to normal, we need to put a repeat performance of the Durham game a couple of years ago. (when we trailed by about 500 on first innings but managed to bat a day and a half to save the game)
and if he's injured dont let him bowl till he is right. Get Gregory or Dibble in for the next game so he has fully the time to recover.
Maybe we will get a good performance from them in that they will be desparate to impress to stay in.
Im heading to Liverpool so hopefully I will see us start off.........after a draw in this game of course!!!
Maybe we will get a good performance from them in that they will be desparate to impress to stay in.
Im heading to Liverpool so hopefully I will see us start off.........after a draw in this game of course!!!
Can I ask for plenty of batting for the top 6 in the second innings - AND rain? That would suit me fine...
I am sure this is just the kick up the rear end that was required to bring the lads back to earth.
Its only the first 2 days of the season so no need to write Somerset off just yet and I guess we all feel like we do cos we all started to believe what was being written about Somerset......
Wurz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:19:36:55 by WaresWurzel.
Its only the first 2 days of the season so no need to write Somerset off just yet and I guess we all feel like we do cos we all started to believe what was being written about Somerset......
Wurz
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:15:19:36:55 by WaresWurzel.
Who knows whether the lads were believing their own publicity?
It might be just as likely that they are still down about how last season ended?
Or this could just be the customary bad start that Marcus alluded to.
It might be just as likely that they are still down about how last season ended?
Or this could just be the customary bad start that Marcus alluded to.
The fact that we have lost all 6 sessions is more worrying.Normally 2 out of 3 a day would guarantee a win!!
Agree with WaresWurzel
Early days, if we lose the first three then I will worry, And I can't believe that far better judges of players than me are so wrong about Hussain or Kirby, who has played Div one cricket btw and wants to force himself into England recognition.
The jetlag/ball questions are ones to ponder. But I am sure Mendis wants to do well to get in the Sri Lankan team for the summer tests in England, he has an ideal chance to impress his selectors and I am sure wants to take it.
The only thing the last two days shows is that for all the backroom preparation it is how the players perform out on the field that counts. I am sure SCC players recognise that and are hurting.
Early days, if we lose the first three then I will worry, And I can't believe that far better judges of players than me are so wrong about Hussain or Kirby, who has played Div one cricket btw and wants to force himself into England recognition.
The jetlag/ball questions are ones to ponder. But I am sure Mendis wants to do well to get in the Sri Lankan team for the summer tests in England, he has an ideal chance to impress his selectors and I am sure wants to take it.
The only thing the last two days shows is that for all the backroom preparation it is how the players perform out on the field that counts. I am sure SCC players recognise that and are hurting.
"Grockle - your own post of 18.09 says pray for rain. Why did you write that if not because you too believe we will need rain to save us?"
Thanks for the time reference I always forget what time I post and need reminding
My comment was for exactly the same reason as Shep suggested - the one you saw as a "sensible compromise" in your post of 19:31
Rain requires us not to bat. We have been outplayed in this game - our best result is a draw. The less we have to bat the less time we have to cover before the end of the game....as you say a sensible compromise and one resulting in more points than the 2 you give us from this game.
If it doesn't rain then we have a challenge but not one that is beyond us.
Thanks for the time reference I always forget what time I post and need reminding
My comment was for exactly the same reason as Shep suggested - the one you saw as a "sensible compromise" in your post of 19:31
Rain requires us not to bat. We have been outplayed in this game - our best result is a draw. The less we have to bat the less time we have to cover before the end of the game....as you say a sensible compromise and one resulting in more points than the 2 you give us from this game.
If it doesn't rain then we have a challenge but not one that is beyond us.
I didn't hear the actual collapse. When I was listening conditions sounded tough for batting but Suppiah and Compton seemed to be batting manfully. But it did sound as though wickets were imminent.
litlekeithy: I agree with your sentiments.
One of the annoying things about sport is that sometimes the opposition plays better than your team and/or has the better of the conditions.
Another day tomorrow.
One of the annoying things about sport is that sometimes the opposition plays better than your team and/or has the better of the conditions.
Another day tomorrow.
I think they did have the better of conditions. In a game where one's team is slightly behind, having had the worse of conditions, one can easily convince oneself that the balance of the game would be different, had the fortune with conditions been reversed. When one's team is a country mile behind in a game, then it is not easy to reach that conclusion.
The difference in this game is the number of wicket taking chances in each innings.
Warwickshire gave almost no chances because the ball did nothing in the air or off the pitch for most of 4 sessions.
In the two sessions we have batted there have been numerous balls past the bat.
What has caused that?
Is it the difference in the quality of the bowling attacks
OR
Changes in the environment in which the bowlers are operating which has provided favourable conditions for one group that were not present for the other side.
Today all three Somerset bowlers went past the bat or caused problems for the batsmen in the first and second sessions. So conditions did seem to have provided more favourable bowling conditions.
From early afternoon, conditions deteriorated in terms of atmosphere, the temperature dropped, the quality of the light altered.
Warwickshire bowlers got movement and took wickets where batsmen were fooled by the movement of the ball.
I'd personally say that condtions have had a significant effect BUT also the Warwickshire bowling and batting attacks have used the conditions they have experienced more effectively than we did.
So...Warwickshire have had a better game with bat and ball up to now and the conditions have over emphasised that difference in terms of runs scored and wickets taken.
Warwickshire gave almost no chances because the ball did nothing in the air or off the pitch for most of 4 sessions.
In the two sessions we have batted there have been numerous balls past the bat.
What has caused that?
Is it the difference in the quality of the bowling attacks
OR
Changes in the environment in which the bowlers are operating which has provided favourable conditions for one group that were not present for the other side.
Today all three Somerset bowlers went past the bat or caused problems for the batsmen in the first and second sessions. So conditions did seem to have provided more favourable bowling conditions.
From early afternoon, conditions deteriorated in terms of atmosphere, the temperature dropped, the quality of the light altered.
Warwickshire bowlers got movement and took wickets where batsmen were fooled by the movement of the ball.
I'd personally say that condtions have had a significant effect BUT also the Warwickshire bowling and batting attacks have used the conditions they have experienced more effectively than we did.
So...Warwickshire have had a better game with bat and ball up to now and the conditions have over emphasised that difference in terms of runs scored and wickets taken.
Day 2 photos.
V Chopra lbw A Mendis. He bowled a lot better today from the OP end.
James Hildreth bld C Woakes it looks like it was a inside edge onto his pad.
Derrick Taylor added to the Wall of Fame to day.
C Woakes hitting 6 runs.
V Chopra was lucky not to play the ball on to his stumps from Willoughby the ball landed at his feet.
Another ball from Willoughby Chopra playing and missing.
V Chopra lbw A Mendis. He bowled a lot better today from the OP end.
James Hildreth bld C Woakes it looks like it was a inside edge onto his pad.
Derrick Taylor added to the Wall of Fame to day.
C Woakes hitting 6 runs.
V Chopra was lucky not to play the ball on to his stumps from Willoughby the ball landed at his feet.
Another ball from Willoughby Chopra playing and missing.
Excellent photos Mike, I even spotted myself in one!!
We shouldn't be so downbeat about what has happened so far, last year we were dreadful in the opening fixtures of the championship and T20. However, a reality check is in order and there are some important lessons for us all to bear in mind.
Taunton remains a difficult wicket to bowl on, Marcus fell into the trap of thinking about the opportunities in the opening hour, as opposed to building up a big score on a docile wicket which allows the team bowling second, to build pressure before they even enter the field.
Our new bowlers need to remember that consistency is the way to get wickets at the CG. On too many occasions, Hussain and Kirby tried too hard to force the situation. Consequently their line and length was all over the place. Kirby also needs to understand that growling at a player who is scoring off you at nearly four an over isn't very intimidating at all.
Anyway, you'll going to have bad days and lets hope we are getting ours out the way so that Big Jim can get a better price on a Somerset first championship title.
We shouldn't be so downbeat about what has happened so far, last year we were dreadful in the opening fixtures of the championship and T20. However, a reality check is in order and there are some important lessons for us all to bear in mind.
Taunton remains a difficult wicket to bowl on, Marcus fell into the trap of thinking about the opportunities in the opening hour, as opposed to building up a big score on a docile wicket which allows the team bowling second, to build pressure before they even enter the field.
Our new bowlers need to remember that consistency is the way to get wickets at the CG. On too many occasions, Hussain and Kirby tried too hard to force the situation. Consequently their line and length was all over the place. Kirby also needs to understand that growling at a player who is scoring off you at nearly four an over isn't very intimidating at all.
Anyway, you'll going to have bad days and lets hope we are getting ours out the way so that Big Jim can get a better price on a Somerset first championship title.
RMO: you look very fetching in that pink top.
I realise now that the way the match has gone so far is part of a dastardly plot by BJ to shift, in his favour, the odds of Somerset winning the championship: BJ is killing cricket at Taunton.
I realise now that the way the match has gone so far is part of a dastardly plot by BJ to shift, in his favour, the odds of Somerset winning the championship: BJ is killing cricket at Taunton.
We may have had the worst of the conditions thus far but the Met Office suggests we will have few causes for complaint for the rest of this game; warmer and brighter today, much warmer and sunny tomorrow.
So the top 7 will certainly get the chance for a long bat in the second dig.
Of course, Pete still has a chance in the first dig IF we can find anybody to stay with him.
If we could frustrate Warks for one hour with the rest of our first innings, then get to lunch in the second dig without loss, I think that would represent a very good morning for us.
So the top 7 will certainly get the chance for a long bat in the second dig.
Of course, Pete still has a chance in the first dig IF we can find anybody to stay with him.
If we could frustrate Warks for one hour with the rest of our first innings, then get to lunch in the second dig without loss, I think that would represent a very good morning for us.
A few observations from yesterday.
The new sightscreen in the Sir Ian Botham stand look far better than the dirty old sheet that was used before, long over due.
Mr Gould was seen walking past where we sat yesterday.
The three ground staff were not very happy at the start of the match the umpires didn’t seem to give them enough time to get thing ready, they were waiting to start and the tractor was still going around removing the water off the top of the grass.
Mr Rose walked out to the middle during the tea break and was having a long talk with the Senior Groundsman.
The old scoreboard, there are still several parts of the numbers missing on the display, I think it is about three year that hasn’t been repaired maybe it is because there is talk of removing that scoreboard and making the electronic one the main scoreboard.
The new sightscreen in the Sir Ian Botham stand look far better than the dirty old sheet that was used before, long over due.
Mr Gould was seen walking past where we sat yesterday.
The three ground staff were not very happy at the start of the match the umpires didn’t seem to give them enough time to get thing ready, they were waiting to start and the tractor was still going around removing the water off the top of the grass.
Mr Rose walked out to the middle during the tea break and was having a long talk with the Senior Groundsman.
The old scoreboard, there are still several parts of the numbers missing on the display, I think it is about three year that hasn’t been repaired maybe it is because there is talk of removing that scoreboard and making the electronic one the main scoreboard.
I see that they have started at four runs a ball. All they have to do is keep up that rate and we will have a healthy lead by lunchtime.
But two ducks from the ex Gloucs guys do seem to be highlighting our tail problem :-(
Things are looking up - according to Cricinfo, following three fours in a row, we managed to score eight off the next.
I predict a first innings lead well before lunchtime.
I predict a first innings lead well before lunchtime.
Good to see Derek Taylor at the ground yesterday....one of the unsung heores during the Glory Years..
One thing we didn't expect from this match - strong competition for Willoughby's No 11 spot!
Although, said Willo gets a first baller to retain his place :-( For now any way.
Now the questions - I do expect the top 7 to make a better fist of things second time round. Otherwise I think we could be looking at a very experienced number of players operating in the 2nd XI.
On the contrary - I think we DID expect strong competition for the no 11 spot - and so it proved. Maybe Mendis should be at 8, on this showing at least.
OK, the season proper starts now - gotta aim for 500 by tea tomorrow, no messing.
OK, the season proper starts now - gotta aim for 500 by tea tomorrow, no messing.
I hope its not the sign of things to come in the fact that a batter does get stranded with a tail that can collapse very quickly!!
COACH
COACH
BO - better get used to it, doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise it's likely to happen quite often. More to the point, and more important than us Grockles getting used to it, the team needs to develope a way of coping with it and allowing for it.
Easier said than done. Mendis a bonus today.
BUT it's a big psychological bonus for the opposition to see that, on paper, we are seven out, all out.
Equally, I would guess it puts more pressure on our batsmen?
The only way you get round it is to bowl opponents out for totals that are sub-par for the conditions, as opposed to 642!
The thing I wonder about is our preparation and what can be done to improve it?
Gloucestershire are one of the weakest counties, if not the weakest. And then we have Cardiff University! Can we not find stronger pre-season opposition?
BUT it's a big psychological bonus for the opposition to see that, on paper, we are seven out, all out.
Equally, I would guess it puts more pressure on our batsmen?
The only way you get round it is to bowl opponents out for totals that are sub-par for the conditions, as opposed to 642!
The thing I wonder about is our preparation and what can be done to improve it?
Gloucestershire are one of the weakest counties, if not the weakest. And then we have Cardiff University! Can we not find stronger pre-season opposition?
why do some suggest somerset had the worst of the conditions?Putting the opposition in 600 +, ok one mans decision but lets not make excuses.
Thinking about it, SP, one thing that could possibly be done to cope with the tail - outside of changing the eleven, of course, might be to move the quickest scoring batsmen up the order?
Not sure we want destructive players like Pete getting stranded? We have less destructive batsmen, such as Compton. Might not be such a blow if he were stranded?
An extra hour of Pete might equal another 50 or 60 runs! An extra hour of Compton probably only half of that?
Not sure we want destructive players like Pete getting stranded? We have less destructive batsmen, such as Compton. Might not be such a blow if he were stranded?
An extra hour of Pete might equal another 50 or 60 runs! An extra hour of Compton probably only half of that?
Grockle - are you there? Is it swinging around corners? Is Woakes bowling brilliantly? Do we just look abject in much better batting conditions than yesterday?
average, even allowing that we put them in, it's still possible that we did have the worst of the conditions. I'm not there, so haven't commented, but it is possible. It's not an excuse, but it may be a fact.
Gloucs and Cardiff not adequate preparation for Div One.
I wonder what other counties do? For example, do Yorks and Durham play each other, thereby ensuring that each county is preparing against a good opponent?
I wonder what other counties do? For example, do Yorks and Durham play each other, thereby ensuring that each county is preparing against a good opponent?
Just think - as SheptonPaul would say - lets be positive - it can only get better - it could never ever be worse! COULD IT??
The problem is that - up until now our bowling has been cr-p, our fielding has been cr-p and our batting has been cr-p!!
Can I see a headline - Keiswetter 250 not out Buttler 325 not out - match drawn???
The problem is that - up until now our bowling has been cr-p, our fielding has been cr-p and our batting has been cr-p!!
Can I see a headline - Keiswetter 250 not out Buttler 325 not out - match drawn???
Yes, ob, I agree - BUT "up until now" = the first 2.5 days of the season! THe glass remains more than half full - are we, as supporters, not confident that we have a very good team?
I am - we've had two bad days, maybe three - maybe one whole bad game. I'm not going to let that ruin my summer.
I am - we've had two bad days, maybe three - maybe one whole bad game. I'm not going to let that ruin my summer.
Is all well in the dressing room? How else can one explain what appears from a distance to be a gutless and spineless performance today?
Old Frazer (with whom I spent some time yesterday) predicts that Trescothick will not see out the season as skipper.
I hope he is wrong, but on reflection Somerset never had a better chance than last year to win the County Championship. They didn't as we all know, and they won't come anywhere near to winning it this year. The great opportunity came and has gone.
Division 2 is staring us down the barrel at the moment.
Old Frazer (with whom I spent some time yesterday) predicts that Trescothick will not see out the season as skipper.
I hope he is wrong, but on reflection Somerset never had a better chance than last year to win the County Championship. They didn't as we all know, and they won't come anywhere near to winning it this year. The great opportunity came and has gone.
Division 2 is staring us down the barrel at the moment.
And that little grenade ought to be ignored as the provocation it is quite obviously designed to be.
You were mentioning childish posts by others yesterday...IMHO you've just shown it can be done by more than one poster here.
You were mentioning childish posts by others yesterday...IMHO you've just shown it can be done by more than one poster here.
Can we not write off Marcus's captaincy career just yet?
I do agree, though, that last season was a golden chance to win it. We got absolutely terrific seasons out of Marcus, James, Charl, Alf and Kartik. I think those five were the most important players in last year's title tilt.
Will five of our better players have seasons that good this time around?
If I was Brian I think I'd currently be ringing around the club grounds tomorrow looking for a vacant one. I would then order a Somerset vs Somerset practice match involving all contracted players tomorrow. This lot were scheduled to be playing cricket tomorrow and that's exactly what they should do..
I do agree, though, that last season was a golden chance to win it. We got absolutely terrific seasons out of Marcus, James, Charl, Alf and Kartik. I think those five were the most important players in last year's title tilt.
Will five of our better players have seasons that good this time around?
If I was Brian I think I'd currently be ringing around the club grounds tomorrow looking for a vacant one. I would then order a Somerset vs Somerset practice match involving all contracted players tomorrow. This lot were scheduled to be playing cricket tomorrow and that's exactly what they should do..
Bye then, Clarence. Sorry you can't support our club any more.
Words fail me...
Words fail me...
A rather sorry effort.
Still, 17 games to go. The idea we are suddenly bound for relegation is nonsense of the most childish sort.
Who knows, if it rattles some cages and makes the guys realize that there is more to this season then just turning up and winning (as much media commentary has more or less suggested) then some good will come of this.
Marcus is an outstanding captain, Andy is a superb coach and we have talented players all over the team sheet. We'll be fine.
Still, 17 games to go. The idea we are suddenly bound for relegation is nonsense of the most childish sort.
Who knows, if it rattles some cages and makes the guys realize that there is more to this season then just turning up and winning (as much media commentary has more or less suggested) then some good will come of this.
Marcus is an outstanding captain, Andy is a superb coach and we have talented players all over the team sheet. We'll be fine.
As for explaining the performance, Clarence, I suspect a hangover from the blows at the end of last season to be a more probable explanation than internal strife or, for that matter, complacency.
If I'm right this lot need to stop feeling sorry for themselves, and quickly..
If I'm right this lot need to stop feeling sorry for themselves, and quickly..
Sitting in the Banger stand at the moment. Not a pleasant experience!
I have to say that, although there have been a few poor shorts played, the ball seems to be doing an awful lot as soon as cloud cover blocks the sun. I'm certain this can't be the sole reason for the scoreline but with the exception of 1 or 2 of the wickets it was very grey when they went down.
I have to say that, although there have been a few poor shorts played, the ball seems to be doing an awful lot as soon as cloud cover blocks the sun. I'm certain this can't be the sole reason for the scoreline but with the exception of 1 or 2 of the wickets it was very grey when they went down.
We lost the first game last season;we;eve lost the first game this season. WE didn't win the second game last season;we shall win the second game this season...better start.
Trescothick Hildreth Kieswetter and Buttler do not go from excellent players to rubbish because of one game. There are a few features that concern me but let's just keep going
Trescothick Hildreth Kieswetter and Buttler do not go from excellent players to rubbish because of one game. There are a few features that concern me but let's just keep going
"Words fail me..."
Well they don't me, Shepton.
Somerset's performance in this game has been nothing short of a disgrace, and I have witnessed some of it.
Well they don't me, Shepton.
Somerset's performance in this game has been nothing short of a disgrace, and I have witnessed some of it.
Well, Jon, when you give up 642 having put the opposition in then I suppose defeat occurs about 95 percent of the time in non rain-interrupted matches.
Lancs won their first game and will have much more familiarity with Liverpool's square than we do. It won't be at all easy up there... Everyone on our side will surely feel under huge pressure..
Lancs won their first game and will have much more familiarity with Liverpool's square than we do. It won't be at all easy up there... Everyone on our side will surely feel under huge pressure..
Clarence, a little silly in my opinion for you to suggest we are heading for the second divsion. Judgements or even predictions, should be made a little further into a season than your two and half days.
However, it would be fair to say this is a rather shameful performance. To lose 14 wickets in one session is rather diffcult for anyone to swallow. The players have had a wake up call and need to make some swift apologies and move on.
However, it would be fair to say this is a rather shameful performance. To lose 14 wickets in one session is rather diffcult for anyone to swallow. The players have had a wake up call and need to make some swift apologies and move on.
This is unbelievable rubbish. I could just about buy putting them in on Thursday with all the cloud about, but when that didn't work they seemed to lose interest for the next day and a half waiting for Warwickshire to get themselves out. Yet another dead Taunton wicket well while the opposition is batting at any rate. When Somerset came out to bat I was wondering just how many times Trescothick was going to hang his bat out to dry without touching the ball. Thankfully I had to go at tea and couldn't come down today. I feel sorry for those there at the moment. Seems as though its going to be a long hard season. On the strength of what I've seen so far I have grave reservations about the Gloshire two. I had my doubts when they signed them. As for the coach, when Hurry was asked on Thursday evening why Mendis had bowled so many no balls, he said I haven't a clue. Has he heard of jetlag. Why play someone who has flown half way round the world the day after he's touched down. Either pick someone else or bring him over earlier. Not exactly rocket science.
sid,
Most of these international players travel so much they're immune to jetlag!! The player had a shocking first day but had a much better one the following day.
Most of these international players travel so much they're immune to jetlag!! The player had a shocking first day but had a much better one the following day.
We sign two players from Gloucs and then immediately play like them!
(I'm not being entirely serious, but still..)
(I'm not being entirely serious, but still..)
Oh dear! A dreadful start to 2011. A king pair for Charl sums up our 'efforts' with the bat. Second dig didn't last 15 overs.
IMO we do seem to be missing a grafter in our batting line up. Compo still has a lot to prove and most of the rest are stroke players. How much will we miss ZdB?
IMO we do seem to be missing a grafter in our batting line up. Compo still has a lot to prove and most of the rest are stroke players. How much will we miss ZdB?
This match surely gives the lie to the notion that our 7 - 11 batsmen are weak.
They scored a third more runs in the second innings than the first four.
They scored a third more runs in the second innings than the first four.
Somerset's second largest margin of defeat by an innings.
Says it all really.
Says it all really.
Massive improvement needed on all fronts to even be competitive at Liverpool, never mind win.
My view on the game is, this is the first game of the season I am not going to make any judgement until we have played at least three games.
If we play like this again questions will be asked, if we play like this only at Taunton another set of questions will be asked.
Just give them a chance it is early days yet.
If we play like this again questions will be asked, if we play like this only at Taunton another set of questions will be asked.
Just give them a chance it is early days yet.
Quote:Clarence Parker
Somerset's second largest margin of defeat by an innings.
Says it all really.
To a balanced person it says we lost a game of cricket by a big margin. Notts were bowled out for 59 last september, I believe they recovered suffciently to win a championship two weeks later.
Using your negative thinking, if we win the next game by seven hundred runs we are inconsistent.
It was a truly awful performance, but lets not try and create an online suicide pact.
Basically, our apparent strengths - top 7 batting and a penetrative attack stayed on paper and did not make it to the grass.
The two paper weaknesses - lack of control in the field and a huge tail- clambered off the paper and raced onto the grass.
Outside of the two IPL players we have almost no first-class experience at all outside of the first team, so I do wonder whether Brian will be at all quick to make changes even if form does not improve.
Yes, this was 'just one game,' but I don't believe this defeat is comparable to the one at Leeds last year. This is the sort of hammering that can really obliterate confidence. And this is a confidence sport.
Put it this way ... If a team has two defeats of this magnitude on the trot, several more usually follow. So let's hope and pray they sort this out in Liverpool.
The two paper weaknesses - lack of control in the field and a huge tail- clambered off the paper and raced onto the grass.
Outside of the two IPL players we have almost no first-class experience at all outside of the first team, so I do wonder whether Brian will be at all quick to make changes even if form does not improve.
Yes, this was 'just one game,' but I don't believe this defeat is comparable to the one at Leeds last year. This is the sort of hammering that can really obliterate confidence. And this is a confidence sport.
Put it this way ... If a team has two defeats of this magnitude on the trot, several more usually follow. So let's hope and pray they sort this out in Liverpool.
The report is up for those who want to know what happened here this morning. All viewed from behind the bowlers arm at the OP.
Don't for a second think that Woakes and Miller were in control of the swing and bowled particularly well. We said on air that at least 50% of the first 4 overs didn't have to be even considered by the batsman.
Miller got two balls straight in one over and Nick and James missed them both (it seems Nick thought he'd 'nicked' it but the umpire disagreed).
Arul left the only ball Woakes got close to the stumps. he should never have done it but seemed to be playing the percentage game on the one that did NOT deviate a mile.
Once we were there we were just fodder for the best bowler Clarke.
Marcus, Jos and Craig simply do not defend with straight bats and nearly all edged to a diving close fielder in nearly the same place.
Pete held the fort and must have wondered what the hell was going on.
Steve was unlucky (I don't personally think he gloved it)and Clarke got Gemaal with a beaut and did what you do to get Charl...bowl straight and wait for him to step away to leg!
No real difference in conditions....we played their second innings 14 overs poorly and our first innnings 14 overs were considerably better but they took NO chances at all and waited us out.
Hit straight balls. Show a full blade of the bat to them when you do. Keep the ball on the ground. Cost us 7 wickets when we didn't.
Warwickshire played percentage cricket and waited for us to get ourselves out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:15:31:56 by Grockle.
Don't for a second think that Woakes and Miller were in control of the swing and bowled particularly well. We said on air that at least 50% of the first 4 overs didn't have to be even considered by the batsman.
Miller got two balls straight in one over and Nick and James missed them both (it seems Nick thought he'd 'nicked' it but the umpire disagreed).
Arul left the only ball Woakes got close to the stumps. he should never have done it but seemed to be playing the percentage game on the one that did NOT deviate a mile.
Once we were there we were just fodder for the best bowler Clarke.
Marcus, Jos and Craig simply do not defend with straight bats and nearly all edged to a diving close fielder in nearly the same place.
Pete held the fort and must have wondered what the hell was going on.
Steve was unlucky (I don't personally think he gloved it)and Clarke got Gemaal with a beaut and did what you do to get Charl...bowl straight and wait for him to step away to leg!
No real difference in conditions....we played their second innings 14 overs poorly and our first innnings 14 overs were considerably better but they took NO chances at all and waited us out.
Hit straight balls. Show a full blade of the bat to them when you do. Keep the ball on the ground. Cost us 7 wickets when we didn't.
Warwickshire played percentage cricket and waited for us to get ourselves out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:15:31:56 by Grockle.
Please refrain from the use of swear words if any discussion ensues. I'm keeping well out of it. Hello Keith from Stockwood by the way!
Hi Keith,
This our attempt as a club to reduce the number of playing days so that we can squeeze in a 32 match T20 season.
Forward thinking as usual....!!
This our attempt as a club to reduce the number of playing days so that we can squeeze in a 32 match T20 season.
Forward thinking as usual....!!
Sounds extremely dissappointing that we 'got ourselves out,' Grockle, but thank you for the report and, as always, for the commentary that you and your colleagues provided although I have to confess that I was out this morning and could not bring myself to listen after lunch.
Well you only missed 10 minutes AG...it wasn't long. Though I hear Julian's summing up before the game re-started was considerably longer.
Not much by way of explanation from Marcus. Suspect he was shell-shocked. The quotes attributed to him on the official site do not quite make sense to me. He says;
"I think it's pretty obvious went on. How things can change that quickly. The difference between the two teams."
So not sure whether he was talking about the conditions changing or the fact that we smased them twice last season and now, here we are, having been smashed ourselves.
Marcus said nothing at all about our peformance in the field.
"I think it's pretty obvious went on. How things can change that quickly. The difference between the two teams."
So not sure whether he was talking about the conditions changing or the fact that we smased them twice last season and now, here we are, having been smashed ourselves.
Marcus said nothing at all about our peformance in the field.
What a shocker! Surely conditions couldn't have changed to that extent?
It does make one wonder/worry whether conditions were neither as good for batting as they appeared when Warks were batting, nor as bad for batting as they appeared when we were batting.
Quote:Right Arm Over
To a balanced person it says we lost a game of cricket by a big margin. Notts were bowled out for 59 last september, I believe they recovered suffciently to win a championship two weeks later.
Using your negative thinking, if we win the next game by seven hundred runs we are inconsistent.
It was a truly awful performance, but lets not try and create an online suicide pact.
If we do win the next match by seven hundred runs, RAO, you can freely come knocking on my door. Somehow, I do not think that you will be.
"A truly awful performance?" Yes, I agree but your language is more moderate than mine. However, in view of my previous posting, which you quoted, perhaps you might agree that statistically it was Somerset's second ever worst "truly awful performance" in their 120 year history in the County Championship.
Although I was not present today, and I am thankful that I was not, I think that on days 1 and 2 Somerset gave one of the poorest team display that have ever been witnessed since the dark days of the 1950’s.
AGod, you are quite correct when you say - “This is the sort of hammering that can really obliterate confidence. And this is a confidence sport.”
This defeat, and the manner in which it came about, will take some recovering from. There will undoubtedly be many doubts and demons in the heads of some, and Messrs Rose, Hurry, Nash et al will need to address this immediately if not before!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:16:58:20 by Clarence Parker.
When was the last time a team got 260 for 10 wickets at HQ in a championship game ? Pretty grim stuff.
It is only one game, BUT did much go well at all after winning the toss ?
I'm sure we can put this behinds us IF we put in a solid performance at Liverpool.
I needed cheering up today too :-(
It is only one game, BUT did much go well at all after winning the toss ?
I'm sure we can put this behinds us IF we put in a solid performance at Liverpool.
I needed cheering up today too :-(
Have just woken up to see the scoreboard & result.
I did wonder whether this was an elaborate late April fools joke !
What on earth can you say about that ?
Unacceptable,disappointing etc. All of the usual cliches I suppose.
Regretfully, it takes our consistency in bad starts to the season to a new level.
Ah well. I think after that, we all have to take a collective deep breath & start again.
So much for all the pre-season preparation !
Grizzzly
I did wonder whether this was an elaborate late April fools joke !
What on earth can you say about that ?
Unacceptable,disappointing etc. All of the usual cliches I suppose.
Regretfully, it takes our consistency in bad starts to the season to a new level.
Ah well. I think after that, we all have to take a collective deep breath & start again.
So much for all the pre-season preparation !
Grizzzly
Marcus says that he has 'never known 12 wickets to fall in one morning session at Taunton in all my 18 years here."
I think that rather puts it in perspective.
I think that rather puts it in perspective.
The bottle of wine I am drinking along with reading these posts seem to be making the result a little better.....
Wurz
Wurz
I have just seen a 10 day forecast for Liverpool and almost unbelievably it seems to show unbroken sunshine throughout the game that starts on Wednesday.
Day three photos, I couldn’t find much to cheer you all up this is the best I could do.
Steve Kirby adjudged not to be out lbw off W Rankin.
Peter Trego hitting this very fine down the leg side for 4 runs, you can just see the ball.
Craig Kieswetter hitting 4 runs.
A Mendis hitting 6 runs.
That’s the best I could do today.
Steve Kirby adjudged not to be out lbw off W Rankin.
Peter Trego hitting this very fine down the leg side for 4 runs, you can just see the ball.
Craig Kieswetter hitting 4 runs.
A Mendis hitting 6 runs.
That’s the best I could do today.
Having watched the whole game I feel I must say that is the worst display I have ever seen by a Somerset team,and I've seen some bad ones in my time but don't write them off after one game.I'm sure there will be a lot of soul searching over the next few days and things will be turned around.It is not fair to critisise any individual as they all had a nightmare of a game.
Keep the faith.Things will get better.
Remember form is temporary class is permanant.
Keep the faith.Things will get better.
Remember form is temporary class is permanant.
It's really weird that a team crammed full of talent can collectively perform so badly.
I know the pre-season stuff wasn't exactly of Test standard, but there wasn't anything remotely to suggest that we would have such an all encompassing bomb out.
I wonder what odds would have been available on SCCC losing by an innings & 300+ in 3 days at Taunton ?
Makes Lillee & Marsh's little dabble at 500-1 look like chicken feed.
Puzzling, frustrating & dissappointing.
Grizzzly
I know the pre-season stuff wasn't exactly of Test standard, but there wasn't anything remotely to suggest that we would have such an all encompassing bomb out.
I wonder what odds would have been available on SCCC losing by an innings & 300+ in 3 days at Taunton ?
Makes Lillee & Marsh's little dabble at 500-1 look like chicken feed.
Puzzling, frustrating & dissappointing.
Grizzzly
Well!!!!!
Glad I couldn't be there today. Bowled out for 50 at Taunton?? (Taunton's killing cricket ;-)) What a nightmare.
I can't beleive that the lads weren't reallY trying as one or two suggest. But it seems that the tactics/strategy/personal targets were all missed!
They must be all very bemused as the guys who we were expected to bully into abject surrender kicked sand in our face and proceeds to kick ten-bells out of us.
I very big wake up call. It doesn't make us a bad team - but we do need to step up to the plate in Lancs.
Glad I couldn't be there today. Bowled out for 50 at Taunton?? (Taunton's killing cricket ;-)) What a nightmare.
I can't beleive that the lads weren't reallY trying as one or two suggest. But it seems that the tactics/strategy/personal targets were all missed!
They must be all very bemused as the guys who we were expected to bully into abject surrender kicked sand in our face and proceeds to kick ten-bells out of us.
I very big wake up call. It doesn't make us a bad team - but we do need to step up to the plate in Lancs.
While I've got no problems with people discussing the second innings performance as one of the worst seen by many -certainly its the worst I've seen here since Gloucestershire fell apart in roughly the same way a couple of years ago. Probably the worst I've ever seen by a Somerset line-up and that is saying something.
I feel I must defend the first innings performance with the ball which was NOT as appalling as some posters suggest.
The bowling attack, except for one player not totally at fault for his first day bowling (though that isn't an excuse for his no balls) kept the rate down to 4 for a day on a surprisingly benign pitch. It's hard to get wickets when nothing is moving in the air or on the pitch and the batsmen's defence is first class for 96 overs.
It wasn't great but I've seen more than a handful of matches personally in the 90's and noughties where poorer performances from the likes of Mr Francis, Piersen, Caddick in his later years, Johnson when injury prone, Shine, Van Troost, Kerr, Groves, Gilder, Andrew, M Parsons, I Jones et al got more result for far less quality than the work put in by our boys on Day 1.
Obviously the analogy to the 50's means some people haven't watched many bowling performances since then to the present day.
I've rarely seen a more disciplined and organised batting response however and very great credit needs to go to the Warwickshire batsmen as a unit for their excellent work in the middle. Interviews with the visitors prove this because the batsmen talked to by the local press here all said it was never easy to bat on the pitch and one can only assume that was because of the pressure exerted by the bowlers as the ball was doing little to worry them. Which gives the batsmen even more credit.
Its a bad three days - appalling because of our performances on Day 2 and 3 mostly with the bat after a storming performance from all the opposition with the bat on Day 1.
Perspective boys and girls....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:18:03:27 by Grockle.
I feel I must defend the first innings performance with the ball which was NOT as appalling as some posters suggest.
The bowling attack, except for one player not totally at fault for his first day bowling (though that isn't an excuse for his no balls) kept the rate down to 4 for a day on a surprisingly benign pitch. It's hard to get wickets when nothing is moving in the air or on the pitch and the batsmen's defence is first class for 96 overs.
It wasn't great but I've seen more than a handful of matches personally in the 90's and noughties where poorer performances from the likes of Mr Francis, Piersen, Caddick in his later years, Johnson when injury prone, Shine, Van Troost, Kerr, Groves, Gilder, Andrew, M Parsons, I Jones et al got more result for far less quality than the work put in by our boys on Day 1.
Obviously the analogy to the 50's means some people haven't watched many bowling performances since then to the present day.
I've rarely seen a more disciplined and organised batting response however and very great credit needs to go to the Warwickshire batsmen as a unit for their excellent work in the middle. Interviews with the visitors prove this because the batsmen talked to by the local press here all said it was never easy to bat on the pitch and one can only assume that was because of the pressure exerted by the bowlers as the ball was doing little to worry them. Which gives the batsmen even more credit.
Its a bad three days - appalling because of our performances on Day 2 and 3 mostly with the bat after a storming performance from all the opposition with the bat on Day 1.
Perspective boys and girls....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:18:03:27 by Grockle.
I also really can't believe that this is the result of the stuff at the end of last season. Most of the players have had tournaments in the winter to get that stuff out of their systems and it hasn't seemed to affect their cricket there.
If anything you ought to expect this to make them try too hard not throw their technical ability out of the window so effectively.
Maybe the T20's and one day stuff in the winter and a lack of four day work made them forget that an innings in a CC1 match is not time restricted requiring scores off almost every ball.
Then again they had long enough in the field to watch that being shown to them very effectively as their opponents executed that aspect of their game better than any other side as a whole I've seen in 15 years at Taunton.
Far too many players looking to score off shots that should have been totally defensive given the situation they found themselves in.
If anything you ought to expect this to make them try too hard not throw their technical ability out of the window so effectively.
Maybe the T20's and one day stuff in the winter and a lack of four day work made them forget that an innings in a CC1 match is not time restricted requiring scores off almost every ball.
Then again they had long enough in the field to watch that being shown to them very effectively as their opponents executed that aspect of their game better than any other side as a whole I've seen in 15 years at Taunton.
Far too many players looking to score off shots that should have been totally defensive given the situation they found themselves in.
I think you make a very good point in your last para Grockle.
Was present for the the first morning and Varun Chopra left MANY deliveries and flat-batted many many more. I suspect that the Warks batters put defence as a first priority.
We are guilty often of trying to get-on-with-it and players like Zander were therefore especially valuable to anchor things. We do need to be more savvy about when to defend well and when to kick-on.
Was present for the the first morning and Varun Chopra left MANY deliveries and flat-batted many many more. I suspect that the Warks batters put defence as a first priority.
We are guilty often of trying to get-on-with-it and players like Zander were therefore especially valuable to anchor things. We do need to be more savvy about when to defend well and when to kick-on.
I have just read the Bearsfans.co.uk (Warwickshire CCC unofficial site) and was disappointed to read a couple of things about Somerset CCC, and Mr Kieswetter in particular. I do confess to not having read all the postings on there concerning the match just ended, but I did follow this one up, even with my limited knowledge of 'Twitter'.
From Kim - True Bear.
RE: Somerset v Warwickshire - Taunton "Craig Kieswetter is having a go at "loyal fans" on twitter and inviting one up to the dressing room for a "talk". LOL!"
I suspect that the said "Loyal fan" is well known on this site.
Also, I personally think that it is sad that players have to react in this way, but there you go - what do I know?
From Kim - True Bear.
RE: Somerset v Warwickshire - Taunton "Craig Kieswetter is having a go at "loyal fans" on twitter and inviting one up to the dressing room for a "talk". LOL!"
I suspect that the said "Loyal fan" is well known on this site.
Also, I personally think that it is sad that players have to react in this way, but there you go - what do I know?
There was mention of this Twitter issue in the box after the game. While I am sure that CK is upset and it is good that he should be, one of the journos there did say this was probably not the most appropriate way of expressing it.
We sometimes forget Craig is 22 and I'm sure this isn't the way his cricket usually goes.
All I can say on here is that if he wants to express his view to the supporters then if he has a word with Andy and arranges an interview with the ball by ball guys we'll happily accomodate him at the next home game and would welcome him to the box.
I'm glad he's mad and frustrated but I'm sure when he reflects he'll accept that posts here sometimes reflect that same frustration and both would probably be better with thought before tapping of the keyboard. But you don't do that do you - you want to "vent" and Twitter is such a temptation.
We sometimes forget Craig is 22 and I'm sure this isn't the way his cricket usually goes.
All I can say on here is that if he wants to express his view to the supporters then if he has a word with Andy and arranges an interview with the ball by ball guys we'll happily accomodate him at the next home game and would welcome him to the box.
I'm glad he's mad and frustrated but I'm sure when he reflects he'll accept that posts here sometimes reflect that same frustration and both would probably be better with thought before tapping of the keyboard. But you don't do that do you - you want to "vent" and Twitter is such a temptation.
There is of course another way of stating your case before then.
Take your bat and blow the Lancastrians away at Liverpool next week. That will shut the critics up.
Take your bat and blow the Lancastrians away at Liverpool next week. That will shut the critics up.
I am the "loyal fan" in question re Twitter. There was a bit of a spat, and if you really want to you can read it online, but we made up by the end of the day.
Kieswetter must have been furious with himself after being dismissed, and probably didn't want to read one of his own supporters saying how disappointed they were at what was going on. Certainly I have no hard feelings towards him over the incident, and in fact I would be far more concerned if he had any other response.
(And no, I didn't go to the dressing room...)
Kieswetter must have been furious with himself after being dismissed, and probably didn't want to read one of his own supporters saying how disappointed they were at what was going on. Certainly I have no hard feelings towards him over the incident, and in fact I would be far more concerned if he had any other response.
(And no, I didn't go to the dressing room...)
Clarence,
The Craig/Twitter issue was resolved pretty quickly. Craig explained how he felt about a comment made and Somerset La La La appeared cool about it. I believe Craig may of offered a beer at some point in the season.
Good to see a player and supporter exchange passionate opinions and resolve them without any fuss. Only a Daily Mail correspondent would suggest any different.
The Craig/Twitter issue was resolved pretty quickly. Craig explained how he felt about a comment made and Somerset La La La appeared cool about it. I believe Craig may of offered a beer at some point in the season.
Good to see a player and supporter exchange passionate opinions and resolve them without any fuss. Only a Daily Mail correspondent would suggest any different.
Padded Up,
Both yourself and Craig handled the situation well after the exchange of opinion.
Says a lot about the club and its supporters in a really positive way.
Both yourself and Craig handled the situation well after the exchange of opinion.
Says a lot about the club and its supporters in a really positive way.
And it shows a depth of feeling about doing well. Good to see.
Craig was in the middle having throw downs until about 3 minutes before the start of play this morning and well done to him for that as well.
Craig was in the middle having throw downs until about 3 minutes before the start of play this morning and well done to him for that as well.
I think I've said all I can about the performance, and we can only get better.
There is one area which I would address, and it will hurt some of his loyal supporters. Willoughby has a good record as a bowler and no one can take that away from him.
Nevertheless (and I have laughed at his antics as much as anyone else) but we pay him a lot of money to be a PROFESSIONAL cricketer.
IMO he demeans his other efforts by his, frankly useless attempts at batting. After nearly 20 years as a professional, I am amazed that no coach seems to have been able to have instilled in him, at least the basics of batting. Does he REALLY not have a clue? If he had taken in some, it could have made him a better bowler as well.
He wouldn't be the first name on the team sheet for me, unless I was satisfied with always batting with 10 men.
There is one area which I would address, and it will hurt some of his loyal supporters. Willoughby has a good record as a bowler and no one can take that away from him.
Nevertheless (and I have laughed at his antics as much as anyone else) but we pay him a lot of money to be a PROFESSIONAL cricketer.
IMO he demeans his other efforts by his, frankly useless attempts at batting. After nearly 20 years as a professional, I am amazed that no coach seems to have been able to have instilled in him, at least the basics of batting. Does he REALLY not have a clue? If he had taken in some, it could have made him a better bowler as well.
He wouldn't be the first name on the team sheet for me, unless I was satisfied with always batting with 10 men.
It was all resolved very quickly. Yes, if you simply reprinted one of Craig's tweets in isolation he would look bad, but if you take the trouble to read it in context with the others (sent only minutes later) then I think he comes out of it looking really rather good. The passion is there but so was the quick return to good humour. No complaints from me.
Wnen I got into the press box after the game OB the subject of your last post was the point of discussion!
You'll be pleased to know that the conclusion of the four gentlemen in there (you'd know the names of three of them) was along the same lines as yours.
Have to agree with you. I predicted what he would do and my colleague on commentary was stunned until I told him that was what he always did. Becauise of that he is easy to predict. Just bowl anything straight and he won't be there to defend it on merit. Waste of a wicket.
You'll be pleased to know that the conclusion of the four gentlemen in there (you'd know the names of three of them) was along the same lines as yours.
Have to agree with you. I predicted what he would do and my colleague on commentary was stunned until I told him that was what he always did. Becauise of that he is easy to predict. Just bowl anything straight and he won't be there to defend it on merit. Waste of a wicket.
Charl's batting is pure entertainment. At times I wonder if we've had a drunken chat on the art of batting and he has taken some tips!!
Better to be a rubbish number 11 as opposed to being an awful fielder. Chris Adams better be prepared for the Shaun Tait experience.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:19:20:50 by Right Arm Over.
Better to be a rubbish number 11 as opposed to being an awful fielder. Chris Adams better be prepared for the Shaun Tait experience.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:19:20:50 by Right Arm Over.
He's a "rubbish number eleven" with a best score of 47. It would be nice to see him concentrate on what the delivery is that he is getting rather than stepping to leg and swinging irrespective of what comes his way.
He's good entertainment when it means nothing but he's unprepared when he is required to hold a game together - today was the former not the latter but the day will come.
We pay him to play for the team and sell his wicket dearly.
He's good entertainment when it means nothing but he's unprepared when he is required to hold a game together - today was the former not the latter but the day will come.
We pay him to play for the team and sell his wicket dearly.
To be frank (and brutal) I assume that Charl is not brave enough to get in line against the quicker stuff. I say that because I have seen him NOT do the backing away thing, but only when facing spin. I've actually seen him hit sixes off spinners. But then he gets his body somewhere near the ball when it's spin that's coming down. It's pretty difficult to defend quick bowling when your eyes are nowhere near the line of the ball.
Re: the first innings bowling performance, if the Warks batsmen said that batting was never easy out there, then either they are taking the Michael or that makes things look worse still for our bowlers. It suggests to me that (they felt) there was at least something in the track for the bowlers and yet we still got hammered for 642.
No doubt, the Mendis thing threw all of our plans out of the window. I don't blame Brian and Marcus for not really having a contingency plan for THAT because it was completely and totally unpredictable - especially the no-balls. Had Mendis been his usual self, I'd guess the end of day score on day one would have been no worse than, say, 350 for 8, which means Warks would never have got 642.
I know you've said, Grockle, that you don't think it was that bad. However, another poster that was there, Right Arm Over, said that Kirby and Hussain were unable to locate a decent line and length and I think we're all agreed that Mendis's first day was a bit of a farce (though much better on day two.) Charl and Pete probably did more or less the sort of job that Marcus expected. Marcus cannot have been sure what he was going to get from the other three, but would have assumed that he would get a very good perfromance on day one from Mendis.
If the press get access to Brian, I would like to see somebody ask him about why Mendis did not turn up until the day before the game. I assume he did so with the club's blessing because I've not read a suggestion that he turned up late.
Re: the first innings bowling performance, if the Warks batsmen said that batting was never easy out there, then either they are taking the Michael or that makes things look worse still for our bowlers. It suggests to me that (they felt) there was at least something in the track for the bowlers and yet we still got hammered for 642.
No doubt, the Mendis thing threw all of our plans out of the window. I don't blame Brian and Marcus for not really having a contingency plan for THAT because it was completely and totally unpredictable - especially the no-balls. Had Mendis been his usual self, I'd guess the end of day score on day one would have been no worse than, say, 350 for 8, which means Warks would never have got 642.
I know you've said, Grockle, that you don't think it was that bad. However, another poster that was there, Right Arm Over, said that Kirby and Hussain were unable to locate a decent line and length and I think we're all agreed that Mendis's first day was a bit of a farce (though much better on day two.) Charl and Pete probably did more or less the sort of job that Marcus expected. Marcus cannot have been sure what he was going to get from the other three, but would have assumed that he would get a very good perfromance on day one from Mendis.
If the press get access to Brian, I would like to see somebody ask him about why Mendis did not turn up until the day before the game. I assume he did so with the club's blessing because I've not read a suggestion that he turned up late.
Grockle,
Charl may argue that 40% odd of his innings have resulted in a 'not out'!!
I'm not sure a technical correction will improve his performance. I've seen plenty of batsmen who played a good straight bat and were pretty awful. Years ago the ex Leicestershire bowler Les Taylor asked me to help settle a bet over who was a better bat out of him and Peter Such. Les adopted an approach which saw him improve his golf swing and Suchie who liked to play 'properly', lost when he embarrassed himself getting out to a full toss. As a fifteen year old you'd thought I bowled Sir Viv but a future England international number 11 would suffice.
Sorry to go off topic but that was my only wicket at Taunton - in the nets one summer holiday twenty odd years ago!!
Charl may argue that 40% odd of his innings have resulted in a 'not out'!!
I'm not sure a technical correction will improve his performance. I've seen plenty of batsmen who played a good straight bat and were pretty awful. Years ago the ex Leicestershire bowler Les Taylor asked me to help settle a bet over who was a better bat out of him and Peter Such. Les adopted an approach which saw him improve his golf swing and Suchie who liked to play 'properly', lost when he embarrassed himself getting out to a full toss. As a fifteen year old you'd thought I bowled Sir Viv but a future England international number 11 would suffice.
Sorry to go off topic but that was my only wicket at Taunton - in the nets one summer holiday twenty odd years ago!!
I agree with a lot of what AGod says. IMO the whole set-up of the last few days can best be described as UNPROFESSIONAL from every angle - players, management, etc. As supporters we help pay their wages and are entitled to ask for a PROFESSIONAL response to an utterly awful week.
I'd also like the press to ask Brian how useful he feels it is to prepare for Div One by playing Gloucs and Cardiff!
I think we prepared against the same teams last year, too? And it did not work then either.
I think we prepared against the same teams last year, too? And it did not work then either.
old boy,
I don't agree with it being 'unproffessional'. Unacceptable (performance wise), I agree with but anything else is over the top hysterics in my humble opinion.
I don't agree with it being 'unproffessional'. Unacceptable (performance wise), I agree with but anything else is over the top hysterics in my humble opinion.
Well, RAO, I would suggest that the comments that I read from Craig on Twitter were "a little silly in my opinion."
But that is all it is - my opinion.
I am glad that you were obviously readily on hand during the course of the day in order to be able to inform us that "the issue was resolved pretty quickly."
Furthermore, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I have never ever read the 'Daily Mail', let alone been a correspondent to its pages.
Glad to read PaddedUp that you "made up by the end of the day." However, I still think that it is sad and unfortunate that news of such spats are drawn to one's attention by users of the opposition's unofficial messageboard.
Somerset is already a laughing stock in their eyes based on our team’s performance over the past two and a half days.
Finally, I recall jumping to Craig's defence after Bath Bob had made some (what I considered to be at the time) unnecessary comments about him on here.
Perhaps it is time for me to reflect further on that.
But that is all it is - my opinion.
I am glad that you were obviously readily on hand during the course of the day in order to be able to inform us that "the issue was resolved pretty quickly."
Furthermore, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I have never ever read the 'Daily Mail', let alone been a correspondent to its pages.
Glad to read PaddedUp that you "made up by the end of the day." However, I still think that it is sad and unfortunate that news of such spats are drawn to one's attention by users of the opposition's unofficial messageboard.
Somerset is already a laughing stock in their eyes based on our team’s performance over the past two and a half days.
Finally, I recall jumping to Craig's defence after Bath Bob had made some (what I considered to be at the time) unnecessary comments about him on here.
Perhaps it is time for me to reflect further on that.
AGod,
There was nothing wrong with the prep, we played county and uni opposition like anyone else. We played in English conditions and used every player avaliable. The guys have been working hard throughout the winter. Maybe you should pay a few more visits in the winter months and you wouldn't say such nonsense. Speak to most observers and they will say that Somerset are very much ahead of the game in terms of prep.
I'm really shocked at your ignorance.
There was nothing wrong with the prep, we played county and uni opposition like anyone else. We played in English conditions and used every player avaliable. The guys have been working hard throughout the winter. Maybe you should pay a few more visits in the winter months and you wouldn't say such nonsense. Speak to most observers and they will say that Somerset are very much ahead of the game in terms of prep.
I'm really shocked at your ignorance.
Re: the first innings bowling performance, if the Warks batsmen said that batting was never easy out there, then either they are taking the Michael or that makes things look worse still for our bowlers. It suggests to me that (they felt) there was at least something in the track for the bowlers and yet we still got hammered for 642.
Yep that's right AG. Professional cricketers when interviewed by the press 'take the Michael' (what are you on?)
It suggests nothing of the sort.
As I said it suggests that IN SPITE of the pitch being benign, the bowling was in line and of a length that required them to concentrate (that wasn't just my interpretation I might add).
We got 'hammered' for 642 because we bowled at a side with excellent and solid defences for 96 overs with a spinner bowling no balls and going for 5 and a half an over while his partners went for 4.03
On any other day on any other pitch we would be claiming that was a good effort by the attack because wickets would have existed within the figures at more regular intervals.
I watched the first 15 overs of Somerset v Warks and I watched the last 15 overs of Warks against Somerset.
Ours was immeasurably better than theirs.
Woakes will get the plaudits but only Clarke bowled a decent line and length. Miller was dire.
Charl and Gemaal bowled 6 overs for 6 runs at the start of this game. All our seam men bowled a better line than the Warwickshire ones except for Clarke and the little Rankin put down.
Chopra scored 50 off 100 balls with 7 fours and 1 six
34 off 8 balls even if the other 16 runs came from singles what was he doing for the other 76 balls?
His next 50 came from 73 balls with another 7 fours and another six.
Again based on the assumption above he faced nearly 50 more balls he did not score off.What was he doing? Pulling his bat away from loose deliveries
His third 50 was off 82 balls with another 28 from boundaries
Another 50 balls with no scoring
Now I did not see 176 balls wide of Chopra's bat on Day 1 but I did see a lot of forward defensive shots....constant pressure from length balls on the wicket.
Analyse the others if you like. Only Woakes had a strike rate of 100% and most of his runs came on Day 2.
Penetration was an issue - line and length and effort was not for 80% of the deliveries put in front of the Bears...they just dealt with the pressure sooooo much better than we did.
So what was the difference? The quality of the men in front of the wickets I'm afraid.
The weather was roughly the same and the wicket gave NOTHING.
Yep that's right AG. Professional cricketers when interviewed by the press 'take the Michael' (what are you on?)
It suggests nothing of the sort.
As I said it suggests that IN SPITE of the pitch being benign, the bowling was in line and of a length that required them to concentrate (that wasn't just my interpretation I might add).
We got 'hammered' for 642 because we bowled at a side with excellent and solid defences for 96 overs with a spinner bowling no balls and going for 5 and a half an over while his partners went for 4.03
On any other day on any other pitch we would be claiming that was a good effort by the attack because wickets would have existed within the figures at more regular intervals.
I watched the first 15 overs of Somerset v Warks and I watched the last 15 overs of Warks against Somerset.
Ours was immeasurably better than theirs.
Woakes will get the plaudits but only Clarke bowled a decent line and length. Miller was dire.
Charl and Gemaal bowled 6 overs for 6 runs at the start of this game. All our seam men bowled a better line than the Warwickshire ones except for Clarke and the little Rankin put down.
Chopra scored 50 off 100 balls with 7 fours and 1 six
34 off 8 balls even if the other 16 runs came from singles what was he doing for the other 76 balls?
His next 50 came from 73 balls with another 7 fours and another six.
Again based on the assumption above he faced nearly 50 more balls he did not score off.What was he doing? Pulling his bat away from loose deliveries
His third 50 was off 82 balls with another 28 from boundaries
Another 50 balls with no scoring
Now I did not see 176 balls wide of Chopra's bat on Day 1 but I did see a lot of forward defensive shots....constant pressure from length balls on the wicket.
Analyse the others if you like. Only Woakes had a strike rate of 100% and most of his runs came on Day 2.
Penetration was an issue - line and length and effort was not for 80% of the deliveries put in front of the Bears...they just dealt with the pressure sooooo much better than we did.
So what was the difference? The quality of the men in front of the wickets I'm afraid.
The weather was roughly the same and the wicket gave NOTHING.
Quote:Right Arm Over
AGod,
There was nothing wrong with the prep, we played county and uni opposition like anyone else. We played in English conditions and used every player avaliable. The guys have been working hard throughout the winter. Maybe you should pay a few more visits in the winter months and you wouldn't say such nonsense. Speak to most observers and they will say that Somerset are very much ahead of the game in terms of prep.
I'm really shocked at your ignorance.
I'm well aware of the identity of those that we played against. My point is that neither team is even remotely of divsione one standard. Or are you seriously suggesting that Gloucs or Cardiff University are anywhere near that standard? In an ideal world, it would surely be better to prepare against decent opponents, would it not.
Your comments about the preparation seem to revolve around the fact that the players worked hard. I never suggested otherwise and that was not my point. My point was that the players are unlikely to have been greatly pushed in the pre-season games by opponents like Gloucs and Cardiff. Do you believe differently?
If Steve couldn't find a line and length then please explain why he wasn't being 'hammered'?
3.6 per over doesn't suggest a bowler struggling to gain control.
We were watching most of the time from behind the bowlers arm at the OP and I state again that the people spraying it to Second and Third slip were not in Somerset colours.
If you believe that our control was poor then why weren't the Warwickshire batsmen scoring off more than 30% of the balls they faced? Surely if that was the case they would have been declaring on day 1 with 642 on the board wouldn't they?
Why weren't Maddy, Clarke, Porterfield and Ambrose scoring at over a run a ball rather than a run every two? Were they playing and missing lots or leaving 70% of the balls bowled.
Please also explain why the Warks batsmen stated that they found it difficult to score...were the balls too wide for them to get a bat on?
Look at the stats and the statements man...your premis simply does not make sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:20:48:58 by Grockle.
3.6 per over doesn't suggest a bowler struggling to gain control.
We were watching most of the time from behind the bowlers arm at the OP and I state again that the people spraying it to Second and Third slip were not in Somerset colours.
If you believe that our control was poor then why weren't the Warwickshire batsmen scoring off more than 30% of the balls they faced? Surely if that was the case they would have been declaring on day 1 with 642 on the board wouldn't they?
Why weren't Maddy, Clarke, Porterfield and Ambrose scoring at over a run a ball rather than a run every two? Were they playing and missing lots or leaving 70% of the balls bowled.
Please also explain why the Warks batsmen stated that they found it difficult to score...were the balls too wide for them to get a bat on?
Look at the stats and the statements man...your premis simply does not make sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:20:48:58 by Grockle.
"Penetration was an issue - line and length and effort was not for 80% of the deliveries put in front of the Bears...they just dealt with the pressure sooooo much better than we did."
Sadly, Grockle, it seems from your take on things that our batsmen were not even, necessarily, put under that much pressure. You said that only Rikki Clarke (who is not normally, in my view, a good bowler at all) bowled a decent line and length for them. That really does make our batting sound even worse (if that were possible) than the scorecards suggest.
Sadly, Grockle, it seems from your take on things that our batsmen were not even, necessarily, put under that much pressure. You said that only Rikki Clarke (who is not normally, in my view, a good bowler at all) bowled a decent line and length for them. That really does make our batting sound even worse (if that were possible) than the scorecards suggest.
Now That is the first bit of sense you've put on here for a while.
I think the first four batsmen were out to 33% of the balls bowled by the Warwickshire openers in the first four overs. They were the ONLY decent ones
We reckon that Marcus and others left at least 12. We scored singles off 3 and Marcus hit one for 4. That is 16 balls from 24.
4 of the other 8 balls took wickets including two of only four balls I counted Miller getting anywhere near the wicket - his only two straight deliveries in his first twelve (Nick and James LBW).
That was the state of our batting today.
I've summarised how we lost wickets in the second set somewhere here. Two people got good balls - Gemaal and Charl (both Clarke) and I don't think Steve gloved it (but by then it was too late). I didn't see Mendis.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:21:05:05 by Grockle.
I think the first four batsmen were out to 33% of the balls bowled by the Warwickshire openers in the first four overs. They were the ONLY decent ones
We reckon that Marcus and others left at least 12. We scored singles off 3 and Marcus hit one for 4. That is 16 balls from 24.
4 of the other 8 balls took wickets including two of only four balls I counted Miller getting anywhere near the wicket - his only two straight deliveries in his first twelve (Nick and James LBW).
That was the state of our batting today.
I've summarised how we lost wickets in the second set somewhere here. Two people got good balls - Gemaal and Charl (both Clarke) and I don't think Steve gloved it (but by then it was too late). I didn't see Mendis.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:16:21:05:05 by Grockle.
I think that we can take it that all the Somerset players and management will be frustrated and disappointed about this performance.
But it is only one match.
(Unlike some posters) I wasn't at the match. So, I am not going to attempt any kind of analysis of what occurred, since it would be based on hearsay or supposition, rather than what I have seen. And I certainly would not suggest that anyone's performance was attributable to complacency or a hangover from last season - I have too much respect for the players to do so, given that I am not aware of any solid evidence to substantiate either of these suggestions.
It would be a pretty sad state of affairs if any of the pre-season support were to evaporate when we are barely half-way through April. Teams are most in need of support when things have gone badly. So, I think the most useful thing that we - Somerset supporters - can do is to show support for the team at this time.
But it is only one match.
(Unlike some posters) I wasn't at the match. So, I am not going to attempt any kind of analysis of what occurred, since it would be based on hearsay or supposition, rather than what I have seen. And I certainly would not suggest that anyone's performance was attributable to complacency or a hangover from last season - I have too much respect for the players to do so, given that I am not aware of any solid evidence to substantiate either of these suggestions.
It would be a pretty sad state of affairs if any of the pre-season support were to evaporate when we are barely half-way through April. Teams are most in need of support when things have gone badly. So, I think the most useful thing that we - Somerset supporters - can do is to show support for the team at this time.
Grockle - you keep mentioning this 30% figure as in Warks were scoring off only 30% of the balls they faced. Frankly, I really don't know that that is in anyway unusual for a first-class team to "only," score off 30% of the balls they have faced - It's not something I have ever studied. Do you have an idea of what a 'normal,' figure would be?
Now that you've brought it up, though, it's something I shall pay attention to in future.
If you think about it, though, if a team scored off 33% of the balls in each over, that would mean they were scoring from 2 balls in each over. If those two 'scores,' are singles or a one and a two, then that would represent good economy. If the two scores are a four and a single, then that would not be so.
There may have been plenty of straight balls in amongst the four-balls. But there were a lot of four balls (or at least balls that were hit for four in that innings - including on day one. And, of course, when four balls are coming along with reasonable frequency, a team does not necessarily have to try and score off 3 balls of every over.
Clearly, though, from everything you've said the bowling was nowhere near as bad as the batting.
Now that you've brought it up, though, it's something I shall pay attention to in future.
If you think about it, though, if a team scored off 33% of the balls in each over, that would mean they were scoring from 2 balls in each over. If those two 'scores,' are singles or a one and a two, then that would represent good economy. If the two scores are a four and a single, then that would not be so.
There may have been plenty of straight balls in amongst the four-balls. But there were a lot of four balls (or at least balls that were hit for four in that innings - including on day one. And, of course, when four balls are coming along with reasonable frequency, a team does not necessarily have to try and score off 3 balls of every over.
Clearly, though, from everything you've said the bowling was nowhere near as bad as the batting.
My references to the percentages were in reply to your constant use of the words 'hammered' and 'leaking'.
We were 'ground down' by good defensive batting which punished us when WE lost concentration.
TIME was the reason for the score NOT "Hammering or Leakage"
There was NOT a constant flow of boundaries. They came in short spells before the players went into their shells again as we regrouped our bowling resources and looked for other ways around the defence.
Less than 10% of the balls sent in front of Chopra resulted in boundaries. That's one boundary every 4 overs!! I don't call that "a lot of four balls"
Once again you are looking at the score and not relating it to the TIME it took to get it and assuming because it is a big score it must have included BIG hitting on a regular basis. It simply didn't.
This was a very unusual game in terms of scoring. We had a conservative batting line-up determined to sell their wickets dearly who found themselves on a pitch where their defensive posture allowed them to survive for long periods of time and frustrate the opposing attack.
I've never seen a whole batting line-up operate like this. They weren't here to score 642. They were here to last as long as possible against a side they expected to get them out cheaply. THEIR FIRST OBJECTIVE WAS DEFENCE.
It simply worked very well.
Had we followed their lead this would have been a very dry big scoring draw with probably little more than two innings finished.
Unfortunately we did not learn from their first day and seemed unable to offer a sound defence over a long period of time. The weather went against us but we simply could not muster up a 'wear the bowler down' defensive posture.
We were 'ground down' by good defensive batting which punished us when WE lost concentration.
TIME was the reason for the score NOT "Hammering or Leakage"
There was NOT a constant flow of boundaries. They came in short spells before the players went into their shells again as we regrouped our bowling resources and looked for other ways around the defence.
Less than 10% of the balls sent in front of Chopra resulted in boundaries. That's one boundary every 4 overs!! I don't call that "a lot of four balls"
Once again you are looking at the score and not relating it to the TIME it took to get it and assuming because it is a big score it must have included BIG hitting on a regular basis. It simply didn't.
This was a very unusual game in terms of scoring. We had a conservative batting line-up determined to sell their wickets dearly who found themselves on a pitch where their defensive posture allowed them to survive for long periods of time and frustrate the opposing attack.
I've never seen a whole batting line-up operate like this. They weren't here to score 642. They were here to last as long as possible against a side they expected to get them out cheaply. THEIR FIRST OBJECTIVE WAS DEFENCE.
It simply worked very well.
Had we followed their lead this would have been a very dry big scoring draw with probably little more than two innings finished.
Unfortunately we did not learn from their first day and seemed unable to offer a sound defence over a long period of time. The weather went against us but we simply could not muster up a 'wear the bowler down' defensive posture.
George Dobell, whose writings have been commented upon favourably on this messageboard in the past, wrote the following article on today's play.
It contains the most damaging indictments that I have ever read about Somerset cricket.
Not only did it hurt me to read this, but it also strengthened my opinion that all is not well behind the scenes.
This display cannot be written off simply as three bad days at the office. There are, in my opinion, major problem areas to be tackled.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
It contains the most damaging indictments that I have ever read about Somerset cricket.
Not only did it hurt me to read this, but it also strengthened my opinion that all is not well behind the scenes.
This display cannot be written off simply as three bad days at the office. There are, in my opinion, major problem areas to be tackled.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
I don't get the deep background story you seem to see CP.
I sat with George at lunchtime discussing these things and was working behind him while he put this together this afternoon. No reference to deep undercurrents was made or dressing room problems or anything else.
It was mostly to do with the history of it all.
The bit of history Woakes almost got to was relevant to two people in the vicinity. David Milns (one fo the umpires) the last person to do it and the presence in the box at that time of the last man to do it at Taunton. He would have known about any issues and he didn't mention them either. Not that I would have expected him to.
Reading a little too deep I think based on the article I'm afraid.
I sat with George at lunchtime discussing these things and was working behind him while he put this together this afternoon. No reference to deep undercurrents was made or dressing room problems or anything else.
It was mostly to do with the history of it all.
The bit of history Woakes almost got to was relevant to two people in the vicinity. David Milns (one fo the umpires) the last person to do it and the presence in the box at that time of the last man to do it at Taunton. He would have known about any issues and he didn't mention them either. Not that I would have expected him to.
Reading a little too deep I think based on the article I'm afraid.
Just had another look at the scorecard, I don’t know what we can do about it but should Peter Trego come in when there is no one that bats after him that seems able to stay with him, Pete was unable to play his natural game.
He came in at number seven and was only able to score seven not out.
He is the only batsman who hasn't got a average.
He came in at number seven and was only able to score seven not out.
He is the only batsman who hasn't got a average.
"The bit of history Woakes almost got to was relevant to two people in the vicinity. David Milns (one fo the umpires) the last person to do it and the presence in the box at that time of the last man to do it at Taunton. He would have known about any issues and he didn't mention them either. Not that I would have expected him to."
"The last man to do it at Taunton" either for or against Somerset, Grockle, has been dead for many, many years.
I suggest that whomsoever it was in the Press Box who claimed that he did it, was much mistaken.
"The last man to do it at Taunton" either for or against Somerset, Grockle, has been dead for many, many years.
I suggest that whomsoever it was in the Press Box who claimed that he did it, was much mistaken.
Well, Grockle, it appears that Dobell agrees with you - that, unbelievably, Warwickshire did not even have to bowl very well to shoot us out twice in 60 odd overs.
I hope what Marcus said about "bad boy nets," does not mean that there are ZERO plans to put in any extra practice (over and above that already pre-planned) before the Liverpool game.
I don't see why players should have to look at extra nets as some kind of punishment. I'd have thought they should all want and need extra nets to actually try to get themselves into some kind of nick?
I hope what Marcus said about "bad boy nets," does not mean that there are ZERO plans to put in any extra practice (over and above that already pre-planned) before the Liverpool game.
I don't see why players should have to look at extra nets as some kind of punishment. I'd have thought they should all want and need extra nets to actually try to get themselves into some kind of nick?
Well maybe he was being ironic... I believed him. Then again I believe most of what he says.
He doesn't half hit the keys of his laptop hard as well!!
I didn't realise that George Dobell owned the 'Spin' magazine.
He doesn't half hit the keys of his laptop hard as well!!
I didn't realise that George Dobell owned the 'Spin' magazine.
He also said we bowled with less pace than they did?
On paper, Kirby and Hussain are supposed, I think, to be quicker than any of their bowlers apart from Rankin (who is usually a pretty wild bowler) and does not appear to have had much impact on this game.
I wonder, was there a sense of some of our guys trying to throttle back on the pace in favour of seeking greater accuracy, once they realised it wasn't the bowlers' dream of a pitch that they were hoping for?
On paper, Kirby and Hussain are supposed, I think, to be quicker than any of their bowlers apart from Rankin (who is usually a pretty wild bowler) and does not appear to have had much impact on this game.
I wonder, was there a sense of some of our guys trying to throttle back on the pace in favour of seeking greater accuracy, once they realised it wasn't the bowlers' dream of a pitch that they were hoping for?
Agod,
What teams would you have had for pre season?
A first division team like Warwickshire or Lancs?? Thats of course if they pass your batting quality threshold. Maybe first division teams don't like playing each other in pre season. Another factor to consider is the cost for cash strapped counties, can't imagine Yorkshire wanting a trip to Taunton with all the costs factored in on top of an overseas trip.
Why the need for extra net practice? Is a net going to help Suppiah play a straight delivery?
Too much drama following one game for my liking.
What teams would you have had for pre season?
A first division team like Warwickshire or Lancs?? Thats of course if they pass your batting quality threshold. Maybe first division teams don't like playing each other in pre season. Another factor to consider is the cost for cash strapped counties, can't imagine Yorkshire wanting a trip to Taunton with all the costs factored in on top of an overseas trip.
Why the need for extra net practice? Is a net going to help Suppiah play a straight delivery?
Too much drama following one game for my liking.
Yes, I'm sure cost is a factor. But, quite frankly, if we want to win the CC, then all things need to be considered, in order to give us the best chance to succeed.
Marcus said before this game;
"We do tend to start slowly and this cannot be allowed to happen this time."
Well, presumably, there is some reason as to why we do not seem get into our stride very quickly?
I am very well aware that - as you suggested - we have a reputation for having a hard-working, fit group of players, so it's probably not a case of guys not being ready physically.
So I think the club has to look at other reasons why this seems to be a recurring theme?
I suspect most counties do play their neighbours in pre-season and if you are Durham and you play Yorkshire, that probably works out well for both parties.
But in the Somerset vs Gloucs pre-season friendly, I'm pretty sure Gloucs would get more from it than we do as we are (usually) a better side than anything they face in Div Two.
We don't have to play Yorkshire but we could perhaps, in future, see if we can get a game against somebody a bit more taxing than Gloucs.
Of course, there may be some other factor behind our slow starts that I have not considered but, whatever it is, it needs to be identified and dealt with.
Marcus said before this game;
"We do tend to start slowly and this cannot be allowed to happen this time."
Well, presumably, there is some reason as to why we do not seem get into our stride very quickly?
I am very well aware that - as you suggested - we have a reputation for having a hard-working, fit group of players, so it's probably not a case of guys not being ready physically.
So I think the club has to look at other reasons why this seems to be a recurring theme?
I suspect most counties do play their neighbours in pre-season and if you are Durham and you play Yorkshire, that probably works out well for both parties.
But in the Somerset vs Gloucs pre-season friendly, I'm pretty sure Gloucs would get more from it than we do as we are (usually) a better side than anything they face in Div Two.
We don't have to play Yorkshire but we could perhaps, in future, see if we can get a game against somebody a bit more taxing than Gloucs.
Of course, there may be some other factor behind our slow starts that I have not considered but, whatever it is, it needs to be identified and dealt with.
Well I'm certainly glad that now that some bloke who I have met once at the ground has confirmed what I have been telling you here and on commentary for the past three days it suddenly seems to have some credit.
It's so satisfying that the eye witness account has the same value as the scorecard interpretation once some bloke who by his own admission works for whoever will pay him agrees with it.
Nice guy though. I'd believe him.
It's so satisfying that the eye witness account has the same value as the scorecard interpretation once some bloke who by his own admission works for whoever will pay him agrees with it.
Nice guy though. I'd believe him.
And just conversed, on-line, with a Warks fan, whom I know, who says that his mate was down at the game and said they bowled better than that in almost all of their games last season (!). To be fair, it was the batting that was the big problem for Warks last season, but even so..
It just sounds like the standard of cricket whilst we were batting was extraordinarily poor all round i.e poor bowling and worse batting.
It just sounds like the standard of cricket whilst we were batting was extraordinarily poor all round i.e poor bowling and worse batting.
Doesn't make the end product any more palatable though does it?
Their bowling wasn't poor but it wasn't in control to the extent the end product suggests. There were good balls but amongst some real dross and to be honest....they didn't need to be that good.
Their bowling wasn't poor but it wasn't in control to the extent the end product suggests. There were good balls but amongst some real dross and to be honest....they didn't need to be that good.
Freak result, they happen, it's the nature of life, of sport.
Pack your bags, move on and prepare for the next match.
Not nice, but as they say, these things happen.
I can't see the story either, Clarence.
Maybe you want to.
Maybe I don't.
Whatever, it matters not.
No point in dwelling on it.
Pack your bags, move on and prepare for the next match.
Not nice, but as they say, these things happen.
I can't see the story either, Clarence.
Maybe you want to.
Maybe I don't.
Whatever, it matters not.
No point in dwelling on it.
Given that I haven't posted much on this thread, I assume I'm not one of the posters accused of "over-reacting".
However, given our worst Championship result since 1895,(which I guess does indeed make it a freak result) it does beg the question - when is the time to react ?!
Wonder what the arch defender of the players CJ-M makes of it ?
Many hours on from learning the result I am still massively perplexed.
Finally,am I imagining things, or do we always start badly ?
I haven't done any research, but I can't remember the last time we started the Championship well. Maybe it's alzheimers setting on, but we do seem to handicap ourselves at the start of most seasons, despite all the prep. work that is done.
Why ?
Grizzzly
However, given our worst Championship result since 1895,(which I guess does indeed make it a freak result) it does beg the question - when is the time to react ?!
Wonder what the arch defender of the players CJ-M makes of it ?
Many hours on from learning the result I am still massively perplexed.
Finally,am I imagining things, or do we always start badly ?
I haven't done any research, but I can't remember the last time we started the Championship well. Maybe it's alzheimers setting on, but we do seem to handicap ourselves at the start of most seasons, despite all the prep. work that is done.
Why ?
Grizzzly
Never mind the cricket, did Tractor offer the new players na glass of cider?
Grizzly - the club's own captain said we tend to start 'slowly,' and that was before this fiasco. So it's certainly not just you.
This season, 2nd worst result for club ever in game one.
Last season, a pair of away defeats to start season.
Two years ago, 3 draws and an away defeat in first 4.
In each of the previous two seasons I think we've not won until game five.
This season, 2nd worst result for club ever in game one.
Last season, a pair of away defeats to start season.
Two years ago, 3 draws and an away defeat in first 4.
In each of the previous two seasons I think we've not won until game five.
I returned to the ground after lunch 47-8 - saw the final insult of Mendis dolling up to mid off for catching practice and Willoughby virtually saying its not my job to bat bowled first ball.
So after some musing with MikeBoS I caught the next bus home. Less than half an hour after the finish, while I waited at the bus stop, Max passed me texting on his phone and into Starbucks. Clearly, as he had been dropped from 12th man in favour of Adam, he was not required at what must have been a very serious post-mortem in the dressing room!
As far as I can ascertain the only player to emerge with any credit was Trego who bowled OK and batted OK. The rest should be writing a hundred times a day ' I must remember that I am paid to play cricket!' until they reach Lancashire!
So after some musing with MikeBoS I caught the next bus home. Less than half an hour after the finish, while I waited at the bus stop, Max passed me texting on his phone and into Starbucks. Clearly, as he had been dropped from 12th man in favour of Adam, he was not required at what must have been a very serious post-mortem in the dressing room!
As far as I can ascertain the only player to emerge with any credit was Trego who bowled OK and batted OK. The rest should be writing a hundred times a day ' I must remember that I am paid to play cricket!' until they reach Lancashire!
Well, Charl seemed to bowl presentably and Arul made 60 odd in the first dig. I suppose Mendis did ok with the ball on day 2 and scored some bonus runs in the first dig.
But that's it, apart from Pete, who you mentioned.
The other 7? Cover the children's eyes.
But that's it, apart from Pete, who you mentioned.
The other 7? Cover the children's eyes.
I dare say that each of us have performed poorly at work from time to time. Sometimes, we will have been part of project teams or other groups which have collectively performed poorly.
In such cases, we will probably have been subject to criticism and (I would hope) constructive feedback on how we can improve. And the harshest criticism will no doubt have come from within. But I am not sure that we would have been inspired to perform better next time by comments on a public forum (even if meant in semi-jest) such as: they should be made to write lines or cover the children's eyes.
As Big Jim succinctly put it:
"Freak result, they happen, it's the nature of life, of sport.
Pack your bags, move on and prepare for the next match.
Not nice, but as they say, these things happen."
In such cases, we will probably have been subject to criticism and (I would hope) constructive feedback on how we can improve. And the harshest criticism will no doubt have come from within. But I am not sure that we would have been inspired to perform better next time by comments on a public forum (even if meant in semi-jest) such as: they should be made to write lines or cover the children's eyes.
As Big Jim succinctly put it:
"Freak result, they happen, it's the nature of life, of sport.
Pack your bags, move on and prepare for the next match.
Not nice, but as they say, these things happen."
Oh well....a terrible terrible start to a season we were all so looking forward to. But sometimes you can't read too much into opening week results, whatever the sport. Didn't Norwich City lose 7-1 at home on the opening day of the last footy season..yet still win the title? Prizes are given out in September, not April. I thought last week we had a great chance of being County Champions this season and I still think that. We didn't lose to Warks coz we have rubbish players..we lost coz our good players all played badly..we know they can improve miles on that and they surely will.
However, I would say the performance highlighted a few concerns..
1 Why on earth was Thomas allowed to go to the IPL? Vice Captain..one of our main wicket takers in the Championship last year..a guy who knows bowling conditions at Taunton so well...released for the first few weeks of potentially the most important season in our history? Madness
2 The tail is way too long. And regards the earlier comments about our number eleven (the actual one as we seem to have three or four in this side)...we lost the title by 1 point last season..every tailender has to stick in there to get us towards 250, 300, 400 whatever as each point can be so vital
3 Personally I wasnt in the ZDB should have stayed camp..and have high hopes Lewis Gregory will get in the side before much longer..but having seen our batting (or lack of) this last week, I sympathise with those who feel he should still be at Taunton
One game down..miserable failure. Fifteen to go. Onwards and upwards. This is our team...they thrilled us all last year and will do so again. When we are bad we can be very bad. But when we are good.....
However, I would say the performance highlighted a few concerns..
1 Why on earth was Thomas allowed to go to the IPL? Vice Captain..one of our main wicket takers in the Championship last year..a guy who knows bowling conditions at Taunton so well...released for the first few weeks of potentially the most important season in our history? Madness
2 The tail is way too long. And regards the earlier comments about our number eleven (the actual one as we seem to have three or four in this side)...we lost the title by 1 point last season..every tailender has to stick in there to get us towards 250, 300, 400 whatever as each point can be so vital
3 Personally I wasnt in the ZDB should have stayed camp..and have high hopes Lewis Gregory will get in the side before much longer..but having seen our batting (or lack of) this last week, I sympathise with those who feel he should still be at Taunton
One game down..miserable failure. Fifteen to go. Onwards and upwards. This is our team...they thrilled us all last year and will do so again. When we are bad we can be very bad. But when we are good.....
I sincerely hope that this annihilation has no lasting effect on Marcus Trescothick.
It is understood in some quarters, and has been quoted as such today by a well - respected journalist who reported on yesterday's debacle for a broadsheet Sunday newspaper, that: -
"Last season, after Somerset had lost their first two championship games and he himself had not made significant runs, Trescothick was understood to be close to resigning the captaincy, which he had only just taken over from Justin Langer. But the darkness was alleviated once he began to score runs, and he led Somerset into the light - and, almost, their first championship."
That would appear to be what 'Old Frazer' was alluding to when I reported on here his prediction to me of a couple of days ago, that he envisaged just that happening this season. I now know to what he was referring.
I said then, that I hope his prediction would prove to be wrong.
I still hope that is the case, but make no mistake about it; the effects of this defeat will be with everyone at the club for a long, long time to come.
"Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start all over again" are the lyrics of a song sung, amongst others, by Frank Sinatra.
I feel that all involved at the Somerset club have more than dust to be rid of though.
I hope that they do start all over again - perhaps by concentrating less on fitness and more on the technical and psychological demands of the game.
Wishful thinking on my part perhaps, but we can all hope.
It is understood in some quarters, and has been quoted as such today by a well - respected journalist who reported on yesterday's debacle for a broadsheet Sunday newspaper, that: -
"Last season, after Somerset had lost their first two championship games and he himself had not made significant runs, Trescothick was understood to be close to resigning the captaincy, which he had only just taken over from Justin Langer. But the darkness was alleviated once he began to score runs, and he led Somerset into the light - and, almost, their first championship."
That would appear to be what 'Old Frazer' was alluding to when I reported on here his prediction to me of a couple of days ago, that he envisaged just that happening this season. I now know to what he was referring.
I said then, that I hope his prediction would prove to be wrong.
I still hope that is the case, but make no mistake about it; the effects of this defeat will be with everyone at the club for a long, long time to come.
"Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start all over again" are the lyrics of a song sung, amongst others, by Frank Sinatra.
I feel that all involved at the Somerset club have more than dust to be rid of though.
I hope that they do start all over again - perhaps by concentrating less on fitness and more on the technical and psychological demands of the game.
Wishful thinking on my part perhaps, but we can all hope.
It might make us a slightly more attractive price for the CC........though I have a feeling.....hold on.
Just been over to check and we're about the same price, maybe those who make a living out of these things are a tad more sympathetic than those who support the side, I see things from both sides, hence the toys still being in my pram.
One poor game does not make us a bad side, it just proves that we're human, capable of capitulation, the same as you, as I....the same as everyone else.
Let's knock it on the head, a public post mortem helps no-one.
Just been over to check and we're about the same price, maybe those who make a living out of these things are a tad more sympathetic than those who support the side, I see things from both sides, hence the toys still being in my pram.
One poor game does not make us a bad side, it just proves that we're human, capable of capitulation, the same as you, as I....the same as everyone else.
Let's knock it on the head, a public post mortem helps no-one.
Naxxar is correct and it is what I have been clinging to over the last 24 hours. (However my football team turned things around by employing the architect of their humiliation - I can't see us doing the same with Ashley Giles)
I am glad to read that the players are hurting. I would play the same 11 at Liverpool and challenge them to win the game.
We can still do great things this season - don't give up after one game!
I am glad to read that the players are hurting. I would play the same 11 at Liverpool and challenge them to win the game.
We can still do great things this season - don't give up after one game!
Blimey,I wonder what you lot would be like if you followed the mighty "Sex".
We,ve put up with this sort of thing for years...
A mere blip I'm sure,anyway Murali will be back soon
We,ve put up with this sort of thing for years...
A mere blip I'm sure,anyway Murali will be back soon
Quote:Norwich SCCC
Naxxar is correct and it is what I have been clinging to over the last 24 hours. (However my football team turned things around by employing the architect of their humiliation - I can't see us doing the same with Ashley Giles)
I am glad to read that the players are hurting. I would play the same 11 at Liverpool and challenge them to win the game.
We can still do great things this season - don't give up after one game!
And even us last season..no wins in the first 4 Championship matches..lost our first 20-20 match in frustrating circumstances...yet came 2nd in both competitions..we just seem notoriously bad starters for whatever reason.....
I have read Brian Rose's column in Plymouth based Independent, and think he wrote a pretty lucid, fair and clear essay.
Two things he mentioned stick out particularly (1) "I don't think we bowled as well as we could have. We went for a lot of fours which is usually an indication that there has been too much width offered". (2) We didn't over-bowl Kirby because he suffered a calf injury .... in Abu Dubai.....while he seems okay now, we have to be a bit careful with him".
The second comment gives the clue to the poor out-field performance anyway. We started FROM CHOICE with two and a half bowlers plus a bowler who had landed in the UK the previous afternoon - for goodness sake - what a golden opportunity to have 'bloodied Dibble, Gregory or even Waller?. Probably Gregory because he could have strengthened the tail.
Two things he mentioned stick out particularly (1) "I don't think we bowled as well as we could have. We went for a lot of fours which is usually an indication that there has been too much width offered". (2) We didn't over-bowl Kirby because he suffered a calf injury .... in Abu Dubai.....while he seems okay now, we have to be a bit careful with him".
The second comment gives the clue to the poor out-field performance anyway. We started FROM CHOICE with two and a half bowlers plus a bowler who had landed in the UK the previous afternoon - for goodness sake - what a golden opportunity to have 'bloodied Dibble, Gregory or even Waller?. Probably Gregory because he could have strengthened the tail.
Our batting line up does worry me a bit. We will have days when it dominates (hopefully a lot of them!), BUT I feel we are missing one or more gritty accumulators of runs.
Compo still has a fair bit to aprove for me, but could fulfill that roll at number 3 if he comes off. I still think we need another lower order sticker, hopefully to hold up an end and rotate the strike while one of the stroke players gets a chance to tee off.
Can we get Monty to give lessons to our bottom 3 ;-)
I hope I'm proved wrong of course!!
The bowling looks to have two or three (or four when Dockerell is available) people competing for a place. Who is next in line for a batting spot. The official site says we have two Alex Barrows playing in the next game. Maybe one of them will come good ?
Compo still has a fair bit to aprove for me, but could fulfill that roll at number 3 if he comes off. I still think we need another lower order sticker, hopefully to hold up an end and rotate the strike while one of the stroke players gets a chance to tee off.
Can we get Monty to give lessons to our bottom 3 ;-)
I hope I'm proved wrong of course!!
The bowling looks to have two or three (or four when Dockerell is available) people competing for a place. Who is next in line for a batting spot. The official site says we have two Alex Barrows playing in the next game. Maybe one of them will come good ?
Naxxar - as woeful as Charl's batting usually is, I think we do have to remember that whilst it is the case that, yes, one more batting bonus point would have won the title, we would almost certainly have accrued more than one fewer bowling bonus point, had we not had Charl.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration with his batting - and I think it will be particularly keenly felt until we get Alf and Kartik back.
I agree with Old Boy that playing Kirby in the game with unofficial restrictions on how much Marcus could bowl him was probably as unwise as having Mendis turn up the day before the game.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration with his batting - and I think it will be particularly keenly felt until we get Alf and Kartik back.
I agree with Old Boy that playing Kirby in the game with unofficial restrictions on how much Marcus could bowl him was probably as unwise as having Mendis turn up the day before the game.
Yes, old boy!, I too have read Rose's column in the 'Indy'. I suspect though that it was penned before yesterday's performance. Perhaps he will have more to say about that next week.
I was a little surprised to read him quoted as saying:-
"I defy anyone who saw the colour of the pitch on the first morning to suggest that it (fielding first after winning the toss) was a mistake."
Did'nt we have many green tops which were prepared by Phil Frost and which turned out to be anything other than a bowler's paradise?
I was a little surprised to read him quoted as saying:-
"I defy anyone who saw the colour of the pitch on the first morning to suggest that it (fielding first after winning the toss) was a mistake."
Did'nt we have many green tops which were prepared by Phil Frost and which turned out to be anything other than a bowler's paradise?
Weren't certain posters on here lauding the fact that the outfield was looking 'lush' in the past fortnight and how brilliant it was that there would be more competitive wickets at the start of this season?
Posters seem to get it wrong as well. Last year the greener strips seemed to do the job...and Phil produced what he was told to produce I think.
Posters seem to get it wrong as well. Last year the greener strips seemed to do the job...and Phil produced what he was told to produce I think.
Quote:AGod
Naxxar - as woeful as Charl's batting usually is, I think we do have to remember that whilst it is the case that, yes, one more batting bonus point would have won the title, we would almost certainly have accrued more than one fewer bowling bonus point, had we not had Charl.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration with his batting - and I think it will be particularly keenly felt until we get Alf and Kartik back.
I agree with Old Boy that playing Kirby in the game with unofficial restrictions on how much Marcus could bowl him was probably as unwise as having Mendis turn up the day before the game.
Yes Im certainly not having a go at Charl. Great bowler, great team player. In fact last season I seem to recall he got us past 400 on a home match when we needed 12 or something to get the last bonus point..even hit a 6 if Im not mistaken..
Btw..trying to stay ever positive about our chances this season..who knows in the final shake up how important passing 200 first innings might prove yesterday!
Well, Although I said that I thought we`d struggle I really was`nt expecting that. But when your bowling fails as a unit (Willoughby excepted) and then you bat like that (Suppiah excepted) you`re not going to be anything other than embarrassed at the end.
There are some mitigating circumstances, namely the fact that Mendis had to delay his arrival but we just have to accept however unpalatable that it is that we were not good enough by a long way.
I have doubts as to whether we are as well equipped as many others seem to think and in my opinion the players we`ve lost are considerably better than the ones we`ve recruited.
Kirby seems to be more injury prone and not as consistent as we need him to be He was similar in the carribbean too and obviously Mendis struggled but bearing in mind his travel circumstances not overly surprising Hussain had a poor match and bowled far too short.
Whilst Suppiah batted well in the first innings,once again he failed to go on and make a three figure score as he did on too many occasions last season.
Compton`s struggles are a major concern and one can only hope that that changes and soon.
Hildreth, Buttler and Kieswetter need to score heavily in the middle order as our lower order is not strong and two of them could be taken away with England too often for our comfort during the season.
Whilst Trego is capable of scoring runs, He has not been capable of scoring highly on a regular basis and his economy rate is still in my opinion a little high particularly in one day cricket.
Buttler is obviously a big talent and had a good first season and was attractive to watch particularly again in one day cricket. He will need to have a good season again.
The loss of Thomas is highly significant for us even more so when you consider than when he comes back We will be involved only in One day cricket for several weeks.
Perhaps the younger players will prove me wrong and surprise. We certainly need them to. wE are at least one Batsmen short.
There are some mitigating circumstances, namely the fact that Mendis had to delay his arrival but we just have to accept however unpalatable that it is that we were not good enough by a long way.
I have doubts as to whether we are as well equipped as many others seem to think and in my opinion the players we`ve lost are considerably better than the ones we`ve recruited.
Kirby seems to be more injury prone and not as consistent as we need him to be He was similar in the carribbean too and obviously Mendis struggled but bearing in mind his travel circumstances not overly surprising Hussain had a poor match and bowled far too short.
Whilst Suppiah batted well in the first innings,once again he failed to go on and make a three figure score as he did on too many occasions last season.
Compton`s struggles are a major concern and one can only hope that that changes and soon.
Hildreth, Buttler and Kieswetter need to score heavily in the middle order as our lower order is not strong and two of them could be taken away with England too often for our comfort during the season.
Whilst Trego is capable of scoring runs, He has not been capable of scoring highly on a regular basis and his economy rate is still in my opinion a little high particularly in one day cricket.
Buttler is obviously a big talent and had a good first season and was attractive to watch particularly again in one day cricket. He will need to have a good season again.
The loss of Thomas is highly significant for us even more so when you consider than when he comes back We will be involved only in One day cricket for several weeks.
Perhaps the younger players will prove me wrong and surprise. We certainly need them to. wE are at least one Batsmen short.
Some well stated items there Gooner.
Can't agree that Hussain is less of a talent than Turner but he had a thought provoking debut and now knows what it is like to bowl at HQ. More of the first six overs and less of the session after Tea on Day 1 would be preferable. He does get bounce.
Compton has to take the anchor batting role and he worries more than you I think.
I thought Arul showed some snatches of form that he didn't have until later in the season last year but he has to produce more consistent performances.
Kirby bowled well but without penetration on Day 1 but seemed to be feeling the injury and was almost unused on Day 2. He is replacing a man with injury worries himself but is yet to convince me also that he has the skill as well as the heart to be effective.
Pete looked like more of the all rounder than he has in past early seasons. His bowling was effective from the first and he did well with nothing to really work with at the tail in both innings more the first than the second).
I didn't understand the reasoning of sending Hussain in at 8 or Kirby in at 9 - send in Mendis, give Pete someone to work with while there are still some wickets in hand and let Ajantha work with the tail if required.
I also agree with the Charl comments. He will never be much of a batsman but he does have to think about his role and use what skill he has to deal with every ball on merit and stay there as long as is humanly possible.
If Steve is not doing it then we have to turn to our batsman bowlers and blood Lewis or Craig M. The whole premis of the longer tail was that the bowling would be more effective. If that isn't the case then wqe have to strengthen the middle order and presently that would mean Kirby missing out because we must stick with Gemaal at least for the present.
Craig K, James and Jos have to establish a run machine middle order. After yesterday I don't think any of them are going anywhere any time soon.
Grizzzly. Somewhere on here is an assessment by Mike of when we ought to be looking at where we are in terms of games. That seemed a sensible timescale.
Ohh and there have been absolutely NO rumours, comments, discussions or leaks about anything to do with the captaincy role of Marcus around the press huddles on the ground - this is a non story.
Should we reach the assessment point of Mike with concerns about performances then I think that is when we will also be able to assess who is in control of the side. Presently I have no doubt personally who is in charge and who has been in charge since he took over from Mr Langer
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:13:18:39 by Grockle.
Can't agree that Hussain is less of a talent than Turner but he had a thought provoking debut and now knows what it is like to bowl at HQ. More of the first six overs and less of the session after Tea on Day 1 would be preferable. He does get bounce.
Compton has to take the anchor batting role and he worries more than you I think.
I thought Arul showed some snatches of form that he didn't have until later in the season last year but he has to produce more consistent performances.
Kirby bowled well but without penetration on Day 1 but seemed to be feeling the injury and was almost unused on Day 2. He is replacing a man with injury worries himself but is yet to convince me also that he has the skill as well as the heart to be effective.
Pete looked like more of the all rounder than he has in past early seasons. His bowling was effective from the first and he did well with nothing to really work with at the tail in both innings more the first than the second).
I didn't understand the reasoning of sending Hussain in at 8 or Kirby in at 9 - send in Mendis, give Pete someone to work with while there are still some wickets in hand and let Ajantha work with the tail if required.
I also agree with the Charl comments. He will never be much of a batsman but he does have to think about his role and use what skill he has to deal with every ball on merit and stay there as long as is humanly possible.
If Steve is not doing it then we have to turn to our batsman bowlers and blood Lewis or Craig M. The whole premis of the longer tail was that the bowling would be more effective. If that isn't the case then wqe have to strengthen the middle order and presently that would mean Kirby missing out because we must stick with Gemaal at least for the present.
Craig K, James and Jos have to establish a run machine middle order. After yesterday I don't think any of them are going anywhere any time soon.
Grizzzly. Somewhere on here is an assessment by Mike of when we ought to be looking at where we are in terms of games. That seemed a sensible timescale.
Ohh and there have been absolutely NO rumours, comments, discussions or leaks about anything to do with the captaincy role of Marcus around the press huddles on the ground - this is a non story.
Should we reach the assessment point of Mike with concerns about performances then I think that is when we will also be able to assess who is in control of the side. Presently I have no doubt personally who is in charge and who has been in charge since he took over from Mr Langer
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:13:18:39 by Grockle.
I agree with your comments ref TRES Grockle. I've every faith in him BUT is he being given the correct tools or correct balance of the team to do the job effectively? That is a question for Messrs Rose and Hurry to answer.
He's got what he's got OB.
I'm not sure what they could have done ref the balance.
Ben and Zander wanted what they wanted
We have Kartik because we accepted his IPL requirements and I don't think anyone would have denied Alf the chance - even if we could have.
Who else was around to fill the seam spaces?
Didn't we all go whooppee when we filled the slow bowling spot that more counties than us were trying to with the best available?
Would you rather Mark was still here to fill the gaps?
It may be true that we had our closest shot last season and this is a re-organisation year.
I think we have exciting players in the next level down. They may have to be blooded to get what we think is the correct balance and it may take some difficult conversations before its done right.
But it is still one game into the season and this is still all just a storm in a teacup until a trend starts to show...whatever that trend may be.
I'm not sure what they could have done ref the balance.
Ben and Zander wanted what they wanted
We have Kartik because we accepted his IPL requirements and I don't think anyone would have denied Alf the chance - even if we could have.
Who else was around to fill the seam spaces?
Didn't we all go whooppee when we filled the slow bowling spot that more counties than us were trying to with the best available?
Would you rather Mark was still here to fill the gaps?
It may be true that we had our closest shot last season and this is a re-organisation year.
I think we have exciting players in the next level down. They may have to be blooded to get what we think is the correct balance and it may take some difficult conversations before its done right.
But it is still one game into the season and this is still all just a storm in a teacup until a trend starts to show...whatever that trend may be.
Lets not forget that Hussain has only had one full Championship season. I'm sure he will have learned a great deal from this match and he will provide a different threat to our attack.
As for Kirby, he is experienced pro that knows how to take wickets. Let us wait until he is fully fit before writing him off.
With all respect to Ben and Mark T, they were never prolific wicket takers and I would favour our current two to strengthen the attack this year.
As for Kirby, he is experienced pro that knows how to take wickets. Let us wait until he is fully fit before writing him off.
With all respect to Ben and Mark T, they were never prolific wicket takers and I would favour our current two to strengthen the attack this year.
What a day to arrive....wonder if he'll start work in his first 24 hours? :-)
good write up Grockle. Food for thought there.
When I look at our team I see we have talent but not to the extent that we are favourites in all comps so maybe this is a re-organisation year but surely not as bad as yesterday.
I said on Thursday that the sign of a good team is how they react to having a difficult day. Well we got no reaction whatsover and it is that which worries me most. Too many liabilities in there, with Compton the main culprit. He simply has to start delivering or we have to look elsewehere whether that be Meschede or whoever.
Im going to Liverpool for days 2, 3 and 4 so I will see first hand what the follow up to this.........if it lasts that long.
When I look at our team I see we have talent but not to the extent that we are favourites in all comps so maybe this is a re-organisation year but surely not as bad as yesterday.
I said on Thursday that the sign of a good team is how they react to having a difficult day. Well we got no reaction whatsover and it is that which worries me most. Too many liabilities in there, with Compton the main culprit. He simply has to start delivering or we have to look elsewehere whether that be Meschede or whoever.
Im going to Liverpool for days 2, 3 and 4 so I will see first hand what the follow up to this.........if it lasts that long.
Quote:Clarence Parker
I sincerely hope that this annihilation has no lasting effect on Marcus Trescothick.
It is understood in some quarters, and has been quoted as such today by a well - respected journalist who reported on yesterday's debacle for a broadsheet Sunday newspaper, that: -
"Last season, after Somerset had lost their first two championship games and he himself had not made significant runs, Trescothick was understood to be close to resigning the captaincy, which he had only just taken over from Justin Langer. But the darkness was alleviated once he began to score runs, and he led Somerset into the light - and, almost, their first championship."
That would appear to be what 'Old Frazer' was alluding to when I reported on here his prediction to me of a couple of days ago, that he envisaged just that happening this season. I now know to what he was referring.
I said then, that I hope his prediction would prove to be wrong.
I still hope that is the case, but make no mistake about it; the effects of this defeat will be with everyone at the club for a long, long time to come.
"Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start all over again" are the lyrics of a song sung, amongst others, by Frank Sinatra.
I feel that all involved at the Somerset club have more than dust to be rid of though.
I hope that they do start all over again - perhaps by concentrating less on fitness and more on the technical and psychological demands of the game.
Wishful thinking on my part perhaps, but we can all hope.
Honestly Clarence, you are the biggest drama queen in town!!
How on earth is one defeat going to affect Marcus? His mental health issues with travelling have nothing to do with a bad performance on the pitch.
The effects won't last for a long time either, if it did then questions would be raised as to mental toughness of the squad but I highly doubt that it is an issue.
Unlike yourself the lads believe in themselves and will review this game like any other and make any relevant adjustments to their game plans without any of the fuss you seem to drag up.
I'm interested in the (not new) criticism of Nick Compton. I had thought the general feeling was that we had too many strokeplayers trying to score too quickly (Tres, JH, CK, JB, PT) and needed more of a consolidator in the middle-order. If that's not Nick's role, what is?
I agree his scores to date haven't set the world alight, but at least (from what I read and hear) he's not regularly caught at long off or deep backward square trying to push the score along too quickly, is he?
Players who get slow 60s will always catch the eye less easily than those who score quick 40s - but I thought we'd accepted that Nick was at least trying to play that necessary role - or are we tarring him with the same brush as the rest?
I agree his scores to date haven't set the world alight, but at least (from what I read and hear) he's not regularly caught at long off or deep backward square trying to push the score along too quickly, is he?
Players who get slow 60s will always catch the eye less easily than those who score quick 40s - but I thought we'd accepted that Nick was at least trying to play that necessary role - or are we tarring him with the same brush as the rest?
You are exactly right Shep. I don't think the criticism is of the nature of his batting but the fact that he is NOT YET that anchor in our line-up.
I would have loved to see a slow, steady, no risk 60+ yesterday from him. I think that's what we bought him to be.
Getting out twice to straight balls (even if he got a bit on one of them) is not what I personaly wanted to see because IMHO he is the one who will be the first against the wall when something like this happens as the 'analysis' starts.
He has to establish himself and he didn't do it last season. I thought it was coming at the end and he has had a decent winter. He also looked solid in the friendlies.
But Zander is not there to pull us out of the toilet bowl any more and his failure is therefore more prominent, especially when James does the same.
It's not just that he has to make scores, he has to become the man you can't shift. He has to develop a confidence that his team mates can build around him because he is going nowhere. He above all others has to show that he isn't 'flakey'.
Hope it comes..because he has some really nice technical stuff...but it has to start with solid defence.
I would have loved to see a slow, steady, no risk 60+ yesterday from him. I think that's what we bought him to be.
Getting out twice to straight balls (even if he got a bit on one of them) is not what I personaly wanted to see because IMHO he is the one who will be the first against the wall when something like this happens as the 'analysis' starts.
He has to establish himself and he didn't do it last season. I thought it was coming at the end and he has had a decent winter. He also looked solid in the friendlies.
But Zander is not there to pull us out of the toilet bowl any more and his failure is therefore more prominent, especially when James does the same.
It's not just that he has to make scores, he has to become the man you can't shift. He has to develop a confidence that his team mates can build around him because he is going nowhere. He above all others has to show that he isn't 'flakey'.
Hope it comes..because he has some really nice technical stuff...but it has to start with solid defence.
For various reasons I've not been around much recently, and was very scared to even attempt to read the forum today after yesterdays debacle (well, 3 day long really).
Apologies if I'm asking well known questions, but i couldn't see anything in the last few pages on this:
Where is Dockrell? why are we going into a game with a player who landed in the country the day before and has never met his team mates before then. Dockrell looked like one of hte stars of the (admitedly 50 over) world cup with particularly good control. Is he just considered too inexperienced or is he injured or something else?
The other thing, is there any note of Kieswetters ramblings after the match yesterday? Offering for disgruntled supporters to come in the dressing room and complain to his face and then a few hours later tweeting about how good London is compared to Taunton and how he's enjoying a night oUT IN London. i've been a huge fan of CKs before he got called up, but ever since he won the T20, he seems a shadow on the field and this is dissapointing stuff after one of the worst defeats in the clubs history. @Kiesy22 if you want to look him up.
Apologies if I'm asking well known questions, but i couldn't see anything in the last few pages on this:
Where is Dockrell? why are we going into a game with a player who landed in the country the day before and has never met his team mates before then. Dockrell looked like one of hte stars of the (admitedly 50 over) world cup with particularly good control. Is he just considered too inexperienced or is he injured or something else?
The other thing, is there any note of Kieswetters ramblings after the match yesterday? Offering for disgruntled supporters to come in the dressing room and complain to his face and then a few hours later tweeting about how good London is compared to Taunton and how he's enjoying a night oUT IN London. i've been a huge fan of CKs before he got called up, but ever since he won the T20, he seems a shadow on the field and this is dissapointing stuff after one of the worst defeats in the clubs history. @Kiesy22 if you want to look him up.
I read that too. That was not the time to get into such a debate and was disappointing
George picked up an injury at the end of the WC Barndoorio and will be out for about another half a month at least.
So the option would have been Max who was played in the friendlies just in case.
No idea what the arrangments around Mendis were and whether there was any chance he wouldn't have played seeing as we only have him until the 14th of May at best.
Twitter is a real dangerous thing isn't it for sports personalities and anyone else who may have supporters and critics who will have access.
I'm sure London is a much more exciting place than Taunton on a Saturday night and saying that is fine as long as he remembers that Taunton is where he works and Somerset is who he works for.
I don't think there is any conflict there personally. He seems extremely grateful for the opportunities that his county have given to him.
But it is impressions as well as facts that colours the view on a personality I suppose.
So the option would have been Max who was played in the friendlies just in case.
No idea what the arrangments around Mendis were and whether there was any chance he wouldn't have played seeing as we only have him until the 14th of May at best.
Twitter is a real dangerous thing isn't it for sports personalities and anyone else who may have supporters and critics who will have access.
I'm sure London is a much more exciting place than Taunton on a Saturday night and saying that is fine as long as he remembers that Taunton is where he works and Somerset is who he works for.
I don't think there is any conflict there personally. He seems extremely grateful for the opportunities that his county have given to him.
But it is impressions as well as facts that colours the view on a personality I suppose.
Quote:Grockle
Ohh and there have been absolutely NO rumours, comments, discussions or leaks about anything to do with the captaincy role of Marcus around the press huddles on the ground - this is a non story.
Well, Grockle, you were in the Press Box yesterday, and I wasn’t.
The piece that I quoted was from the ‘Sunday Telegraph’ and penned by Scyld Berry. That was from where the story came, but perhaps Scyld wasn’t there, or if he was, perhaps he didn’t discuss it with you?
Quote:Right Arm Over
How on earth is one defeat going to affect Marcus?
That’s the point in question, RAO. It wasn’t simply a defeat – it was the biggest hammering we have endured in more than 100 years.
I hope “the lads do believe in themselves, ” as you claim they do, RAO, but having been a member of the club continuously since the 1950’s it hurts when I read comments such as these in the Press.
Quote:George Dobell
Somerset had far more pressing problems. Their attack looked toothless and their batting lacked backbone. If this third day was a test of character, it is a test they failed in embarrassing fashion.
They never seemed up for the fight. Instead of making Warwickshire fight for their wickets, the Somerset batsmen seemed intent on thumping boundaries and counter-attacking. It was, at best, a naive ploy. At worst, it demonstrated a lack of care. Really, this was an appallingly bad display.
In fact, it hurts a great deal.
Maybe if people were slightly disappointed with the performances of our two newly – recruited bowlers from Gloucestershire in the Warwickshire game, it is worth remembering that not only did they play in Division 2 of the County Championship last year, with a number of home games being on the bowler – friendly surfaces at Bristol, but they also would have used the ‘Tiflex’ ball as opposed to the ‘Dukes’ balls which are used in Division 1.
I am sure that I read on here a comment to the effect that the ‘Tiflex’ variety has resulted in a different 'results profile,' when compared to the ‘Dukes’ which are used in Division 1.
Different skills needed when bowling at Taunton, I would suggest.
I am sure that I read on here a comment to the effect that the ‘Tiflex’ variety has resulted in a different 'results profile,' when compared to the ‘Dukes’ which are used in Division 1.
Different skills needed when bowling at Taunton, I would suggest.
I for one am positive about 2011. The team that were so close last year are now much stronger.One bad game doesnt ruin a season.4days gone 60 to go. Believe.
Clarence,
But why get so worked up at one result? I couldn't give a monkeys at anything in the press. Somerset losing their first match in a heavy manner will result in some creative writing. I wonder how you determine a team not being up for the fight, I take it George Dobell has never played at first class level!!
Put this into perspective, Somerset have one more point than Sussex. You like highlighting the size of the defeat as though we are going to receive a special deduction from the ECB for being totally naff. In fact we got three points, so while you are focusing on stats, find out how many times this club has recovered from winning just three points from a county championship match.
But why get so worked up at one result? I couldn't give a monkeys at anything in the press. Somerset losing their first match in a heavy manner will result in some creative writing. I wonder how you determine a team not being up for the fight, I take it George Dobell has never played at first class level!!
Put this into perspective, Somerset have one more point than Sussex. You like highlighting the size of the defeat as though we are going to receive a special deduction from the ECB for being totally naff. In fact we got three points, so while you are focusing on stats, find out how many times this club has recovered from winning just three points from a county championship match.
Mr Berry was in the box at the end of the day - first day he had been there. There's no reason why he should discuss anything with me.
I am a very very small insignificant aspect of the box allowed to work in there and occasionally part of a discussion over lunch (as with Mr Dobell who was taking a late one after the morning). I may be asked about something from a supporter kind of perspective but that is all.
However it does allow me to be party to conversations within there. It is my usual policy NOT to report what I hear there because these people work for a living based on that info and it isn't for me to steal their thunder when they welcome me into their place of work.
I can however state what IS NOT part of those conversations and thats why I said what I did.
Your quote from him is referring to something from last year. If he says it was said then who am I to question it. All I said was that there was NO conversation related to Marcus and the present captaincy during the game though they were talking at the end about his bafflement at the events of the day.
I'd suggest that if there was anything to say it would have been part of that conversation...it simply wasn't.
Take that how you will my quotes do not have the same status as those of the great correspondent with some if any. :-)
I am a very very small insignificant aspect of the box allowed to work in there and occasionally part of a discussion over lunch (as with Mr Dobell who was taking a late one after the morning). I may be asked about something from a supporter kind of perspective but that is all.
However it does allow me to be party to conversations within there. It is my usual policy NOT to report what I hear there because these people work for a living based on that info and it isn't for me to steal their thunder when they welcome me into their place of work.
I can however state what IS NOT part of those conversations and thats why I said what I did.
Your quote from him is referring to something from last year. If he says it was said then who am I to question it. All I said was that there was NO conversation related to Marcus and the present captaincy during the game though they were talking at the end about his bafflement at the events of the day.
I'd suggest that if there was anything to say it would have been part of that conversation...it simply wasn't.
Take that how you will my quotes do not have the same status as those of the great correspondent with some if any. :-)
No offence to him, but I doubt that there are many here that will answer the question about whether we wish Turner was still here in the affirmative.
Re: Compton, I think he looks better than he really is I.e. A bit more style than substance. When I went up to Durham last season the locals were in raptures about how 'great,' Compton looked. He did play well in that game but did not translate into the kind of big innings we need from that role.
Like Kirby and Hussain, Compton came from Div Two. But whilst Kirby and Hussain had good CC2 records, Compton's was ordinary .. Average of 33.
Re: Compton, I think he looks better than he really is I.e. A bit more style than substance. When I went up to Durham last season the locals were in raptures about how 'great,' Compton looked. He did play well in that game but did not translate into the kind of big innings we need from that role.
Like Kirby and Hussain, Compton came from Div Two. But whilst Kirby and Hussain had good CC2 records, Compton's was ordinary .. Average of 33.
I have to agree with Dobell's assessment of our Day 3 batting in the second innings.
His statement about the bowling says 'seemed toothless' and I'm personally unwilling to interpret that as 'was toothless' as others seem to have done.
I have said a number of times here that I have rarely watched a batting line up with such solid defence across nearly all batsmen. On a pitch giving nothing on the first day, facing men taking no chances whatsoever and not looking to push the score on except from loose deliveries any bowler can 'seem toothless'. ARC himself has seemed that way at times.
That is why I agree with Mike that no real assessment can be made until we've seen these guys bowl away and once again at home.
His statement about the bowling says 'seemed toothless' and I'm personally unwilling to interpret that as 'was toothless' as others seem to have done.
I have said a number of times here that I have rarely watched a batting line up with such solid defence across nearly all batsmen. On a pitch giving nothing on the first day, facing men taking no chances whatsoever and not looking to push the score on except from loose deliveries any bowler can 'seem toothless'. ARC himself has seemed that way at times.
That is why I agree with Mike that no real assessment can be made until we've seen these guys bowl away and once again at home.
Right Arm Over.
Fair enough. You do not "give a monkeys" that yesterday Somerset took the biggest hammering they have had for over a hundred years.
That is where I must differ from you, because I most certainly do.
You are correct in saying that George Dobell "has never played at first class level." But then again, neither have I, nor indeed have some of the coaching staff at Somerset CCC.
Let's hope that things are turned around fairly soon. I shall be watching and waiting with eager anticipation.
Fair enough. You do not "give a monkeys" that yesterday Somerset took the biggest hammering they have had for over a hundred years.
That is where I must differ from you, because I most certainly do.
You are correct in saying that George Dobell "has never played at first class level." But then again, neither have I, nor indeed have some of the coaching staff at Somerset CCC.
Let's hope that things are turned around fairly soon. I shall be watching and waiting with eager anticipation.
You're spot on ROA, too many people hang onto the words of journalists, when in reality they are usually nothing more than badly written prose.
We all saw what happened and can make up our own minds, what a bloke who spends his time cooped up in a press box thinks is irrelevant.
It always was.
It always will be.
We all saw what happened and can make up our own minds, what a bloke who spends his time cooped up in a press box thinks is irrelevant.
It always was.
It always will be.
I think Liverpool will go better with the ball than the Warks game, chiefly because Mendis will not have just got off the plane.
Liverpool can surely not go worse with the bat than our second dig vs Warks.
I don't think that we should play Kirby unless he is fully fit, though.
It seems Dibble was first reserve but I wonder if Lewis Gregory will make more sense from a 'balance of the team,' point of view?
I do think that it must be a considerable boost to opponents to see the lack of 'on paper,' batting that we have down the order. Certainly I feel better about our prospects when I look at opponents and see a long tail. Having said that you seldom see more than a two man tail in Div One, these days. Warks had two number 11s - Miller and Rankin, but I think Botha was at 9 and has an average of about 24 and best score of 156.
Liverpool can surely not go worse with the bat than our second dig vs Warks.
I don't think that we should play Kirby unless he is fully fit, though.
It seems Dibble was first reserve but I wonder if Lewis Gregory will make more sense from a 'balance of the team,' point of view?
I do think that it must be a considerable boost to opponents to see the lack of 'on paper,' batting that we have down the order. Certainly I feel better about our prospects when I look at opponents and see a long tail. Having said that you seldom see more than a two man tail in Div One, these days. Warks had two number 11s - Miller and Rankin, but I think Botha was at 9 and has an average of about 24 and best score of 156.
Well you have must have no faith whatsoever in the professional assessment of Brian Rose then AG if you are going to put the whole of the lack of big innings from Compton on the fact he played in the second division!
Rose took two seasons to sign the man. We would have got him the year before if it had been possible but they must have watched him a number of times and kept an eye on him for a considerable period of time against these very poor (I assume by your assessment) second division attacks.
You have no idea what level of skill the Glos guys have (who bowled in a number of places OTHER than Bristol I might add). You are basing this on what you have heard about some 20 overs that they have bowled each in anger for their new side (still only concentrating on the negative aspects even though many of them are perception as well).
Yet on the basis of that you are questioning the levels of quality between the two divisions of the CC and also questioning why we are picking players from what you seem to asssume we all agree is an inferior league.
Sorry but personally I need a whole lot more than that and I'm not sure that half the division 2 coaches would agree with your rather general assessment of their squad's ability to survive in the first division.
Rose took two seasons to sign the man. We would have got him the year before if it had been possible but they must have watched him a number of times and kept an eye on him for a considerable period of time against these very poor (I assume by your assessment) second division attacks.
You have no idea what level of skill the Glos guys have (who bowled in a number of places OTHER than Bristol I might add). You are basing this on what you have heard about some 20 overs that they have bowled each in anger for their new side (still only concentrating on the negative aspects even though many of them are perception as well).
Yet on the basis of that you are questioning the levels of quality between the two divisions of the CC and also questioning why we are picking players from what you seem to asssume we all agree is an inferior league.
Sorry but personally I need a whole lot more than that and I'm not sure that half the division 2 coaches would agree with your rather general assessment of their squad's ability to survive in the first division.
Yes, I guess we all have to try to draw a line in the sand & start afresh.
Wonder if BR might feel it appropriate to have a quiet word with CK re his twitterings, in respect of which a period of silence re all matters cricket/Taunton related might be wise fttb.
Grizzzly
Wonder if BR might feel it appropriate to have a quiet word with CK re his twitterings, in respect of which a period of silence re all matters cricket/Taunton related might be wise fttb.
Grizzzly
So you are now rating the Warwickshire batting line-up then? Were you doing that earlier in the week as well?
Weren't their 'on paper' resources a little limited in earlier assessments?
As said I think Lewis might be taken from the seconds game should there be a question about Kirby's fitness. It would make sense to bolster the batting as well if possible should the assessment be on a par between the young lads.
Dibble seems to be the assessed more effective bowler however - maybe you'd like him in instead of the inferior Second Division Hussain who must not have the same skills as Adam as he has been trained at a first division county and not bowled on a bowler friendly wicket like Bristol?
And I'll remind you we had Mendis as the eight batsman...he just came in at 10 :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:18:36:26 by Grockle.
Weren't their 'on paper' resources a little limited in earlier assessments?
As said I think Lewis might be taken from the seconds game should there be a question about Kirby's fitness. It would make sense to bolster the batting as well if possible should the assessment be on a par between the young lads.
Dibble seems to be the assessed more effective bowler however - maybe you'd like him in instead of the inferior Second Division Hussain who must not have the same skills as Adam as he has been trained at a first division county and not bowled on a bowler friendly wicket like Bristol?
And I'll remind you we had Mendis as the eight batsman...he just came in at 10 :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:18:36:26 by Grockle.
Just to prove that life goes on....
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
The same team won the next nine matches in this competition and included a trophy.
No emotional scars, just a simple accepting of reality at the time from Jamie Cox.
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
The same team won the next nine matches in this competition and included a trophy.
No emotional scars, just a simple accepting of reality at the time from Jamie Cox.
Again, Grockle, you are making up things I did not say. Nowhere did I say that Compton has not made the big score for us 'because' he came from division two. I observed that he has not made the big score. I also said he came from Div Two. I did not say that one factor caused the other.
I don't fault Brian from signing players from Div Two as I think few Div One players are ever available to move Counties these days.
I think the gulf between the two divisions is fairly well established, Grockle, whatever you might think.
In recent seasons there has been quite a lot of yo-yo effect with counties like Sussex and, especially, Worcs. Yo-yo effect is an effect which supports a gulf between the divisions.
What, pray, is your evidence for your implied argument that I am wrong about there being a gulf between the two divisions?
I don't fault Brian from signing players from Div Two as I think few Div One players are ever available to move Counties these days.
I think the gulf between the two divisions is fairly well established, Grockle, whatever you might think.
In recent seasons there has been quite a lot of yo-yo effect with counties like Sussex and, especially, Worcs. Yo-yo effect is an effect which supports a gulf between the divisions.
What, pray, is your evidence for your implied argument that I am wrong about there being a gulf between the two divisions?
In fact, Grockle - look at 2009 - Sussex and Worcs went down and Kent and Essex went up. In which divisions are those four counties playing this season? What would you infer from that?
My point about Compton was that he came from Div Two, in which he had been less than dominant and Div One represents a big step up from Div Two.
In other words, signing a guy like Compton from Div Two represented a big gamble, given his less than stellar record. He actually did a little bit better than I thought he would, making two fifties in 17 innings. But that's still not number three in CC1 material and I would guess that only whomever played as a regular number 3 for Warks last season would have had a worse record in Div One. Hence why he has still to convince both me and a great many others.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:19:12:07 by AGod.
My point about Compton was that he came from Div Two, in which he had been less than dominant and Div One represents a big step up from Div Two.
In other words, signing a guy like Compton from Div Two represented a big gamble, given his less than stellar record. He actually did a little bit better than I thought he would, making two fifties in 17 innings. But that's still not number three in CC1 material and I would guess that only whomever played as a regular number 3 for Warks last season would have had a worse record in Div One. Hence why he has still to convince both me and a great many others.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:19:12:07 by AGod.
I didn't say you did AG but you have been inferring the inferiority as a factor for about the last three pages in comments about this 'gulf'.
I don't have to prove there is no 'gulf' between the divisions because I don't yet see there is any kind of problem with our bowling signings - that is your inference not mine. Nick has not performed...there is no question about that but James was inconsistent for 3-ish seasons and maybe it took him a long time to get sorted. This is a BIG season for him...think I said that somewhere.
You seem to be concerned that Nick doesn't hit BIG scores. I personally don't care how many runs he gets I want him to OCCUPY the crease while those about him push the score along. Coming in at 3 and making 75 in a score over 450 would be fine for me - his job is to stabalise provide a base for the more free flowing men - something I don't think he has ever been classified as.
You notice I mentioned that half the coaches in the Second division may have a different view to yours.
I don't dispute that some counties have problems and some players only just get to first class levels but as one of those general "paintbrush" statements I think the England captain who struggled when returning to play for his Second division county might be an example of someone who might disagree about your view of the quality of the games he performed in. You may find your comments at odds should you post them on MTWD as well.
Ref That scorecard RAO - I think that is the game that Tractor went to spending mmore to get there than the runs we scored and arriving just before we lost...I may be wrong but it was certainly a game like that at Southgate.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:21:54:07 by Grockle.
I don't have to prove there is no 'gulf' between the divisions because I don't yet see there is any kind of problem with our bowling signings - that is your inference not mine. Nick has not performed...there is no question about that but James was inconsistent for 3-ish seasons and maybe it took him a long time to get sorted. This is a BIG season for him...think I said that somewhere.
You seem to be concerned that Nick doesn't hit BIG scores. I personally don't care how many runs he gets I want him to OCCUPY the crease while those about him push the score along. Coming in at 3 and making 75 in a score over 450 would be fine for me - his job is to stabalise provide a base for the more free flowing men - something I don't think he has ever been classified as.
You notice I mentioned that half the coaches in the Second division may have a different view to yours.
I don't dispute that some counties have problems and some players only just get to first class levels but as one of those general "paintbrush" statements I think the England captain who struggled when returning to play for his Second division county might be an example of someone who might disagree about your view of the quality of the games he performed in. You may find your comments at odds should you post them on MTWD as well.
Ref That scorecard RAO - I think that is the game that Tractor went to spending mmore to get there than the runs we scored and arriving just before we lost...I may be wrong but it was certainly a game like that at Southgate.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:21:54:07 by Grockle.
Lots of interesting discussion points today!
My two-penneth..for what its worth...
As I posted earlier today, I'm in the staying positive camp..I still think we can win the title this season..we've traditionally been a county that lurches from very good to very bad and vice versia..we will recover from this defeat..prizes are handed out in Sept not the 2nd week of April..there's a long way to go and too much talent for us not to soon start winning games...
However,I still think it was madness to let Alf go to the IPL. I respect the opinion of those who say we owed to him etc..but this is professional, hard sport..we aim to win a very tough league for the first time in our history..its crazy to release for the first few weeks a guy who took nearly 50 first class wickets last season..do we want to go into every match with our strongest eleven or don't we????
I like Compton but I fear he is not a number 3..but it seems we have nobody else able and willing to bat there
ZDB leaving has forced Hildy back to 4 in the order..he had his success last season after dropping down to 5
Hussain was signed as much for his potential as what he's already achieved and should improve as time goes on (mind you, after 1-150 odd and 0 x 2 he can hardly get worse)..lots of judges of players see him as a decent prospect and we weren't the only ones after him. There is a big gulf I believe between Div 1 and 2 but not an insurmountable one. His time should come
When Alf is finally back, we will be able to rotate the quicks..one of him, Kirby, Willoughby and Hussain won't get picked so our attack will look a little fresher. Msybe Kirby will be the one used as first replacement to the starting eleven..and in that case he won't be a bad pick if called up
As i posted earlier they are OUR team...yes they can frustrate us but they can also thrill us and entertain us..the long unbeaten run in the Championship is over...its only game one..fifteen left..our real Championship Challenge begins on Wednesday.........
My two-penneth..for what its worth...
As I posted earlier today, I'm in the staying positive camp..I still think we can win the title this season..we've traditionally been a county that lurches from very good to very bad and vice versia..we will recover from this defeat..prizes are handed out in Sept not the 2nd week of April..there's a long way to go and too much talent for us not to soon start winning games...
However,I still think it was madness to let Alf go to the IPL. I respect the opinion of those who say we owed to him etc..but this is professional, hard sport..we aim to win a very tough league for the first time in our history..its crazy to release for the first few weeks a guy who took nearly 50 first class wickets last season..do we want to go into every match with our strongest eleven or don't we????
I like Compton but I fear he is not a number 3..but it seems we have nobody else able and willing to bat there
ZDB leaving has forced Hildy back to 4 in the order..he had his success last season after dropping down to 5
Hussain was signed as much for his potential as what he's already achieved and should improve as time goes on (mind you, after 1-150 odd and 0 x 2 he can hardly get worse)..lots of judges of players see him as a decent prospect and we weren't the only ones after him. There is a big gulf I believe between Div 1 and 2 but not an insurmountable one. His time should come
When Alf is finally back, we will be able to rotate the quicks..one of him, Kirby, Willoughby and Hussain won't get picked so our attack will look a little fresher. Msybe Kirby will be the one used as first replacement to the starting eleven..and in that case he won't be a bad pick if called up
As i posted earlier they are OUR team...yes they can frustrate us but they can also thrill us and entertain us..the long unbeaten run in the Championship is over...its only game one..fifteen left..our real Championship Challenge begins on Wednesday.........
Ref Alf and the IPL
Any county standing in the way of a player playing in a competition which dwarfs ours in terms of financial reward is commiting professional suicide. Take a look at the auction lists will show you that several counties had accepted the players should be allowed to participate if selected. County cricket can ill afford to be put up token barriers.
Effectively most of these guys will earn more in the IPL than they will in the English domestic season. It makes commercial sense to respect the player's right to get a good commercial deal and share rather than say no and lose the player all together.
There is little difference between Murali Kartik or Alfonso Thomas. Both players will play and be paid to represent the county from their return onwards. If we had said no then they'd be playing for another county and fair play to them.
Any county standing in the way of a player playing in a competition which dwarfs ours in terms of financial reward is commiting professional suicide. Take a look at the auction lists will show you that several counties had accepted the players should be allowed to participate if selected. County cricket can ill afford to be put up token barriers.
Effectively most of these guys will earn more in the IPL than they will in the English domestic season. It makes commercial sense to respect the player's right to get a good commercial deal and share rather than say no and lose the player all together.
There is little difference between Murali Kartik or Alfonso Thomas. Both players will play and be paid to represent the county from their return onwards. If we had said no then they'd be playing for another county and fair play to them.
Forget the performance analysis, had we batted first then we would not have been having this discussion now!
Last season I thought we had learnt that a greenish top at Taunton, doesn't necessarily mean a seaming wicket.
Next time we'll probably bat and it will be!
Last season I thought we had learnt that a greenish top at Taunton, doesn't necessarily mean a seaming wicket.
Next time we'll probably bat and it will be!
I think what we've learned, Botham, is that it's a tough track to read!!!
Perhaps better to lose the toss!
I quote the following entry in Wisden from, I think, the 1998 season;
'For the fourth home match in succession, Somerset lost the toss, were put into bat On a green-tinged pitch- and raced to 500 on their way to victory by an innings.'
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:08:09:39 by AGod.
Perhaps better to lose the toss!
I quote the following entry in Wisden from, I think, the 1998 season;
'For the fourth home match in succession, Somerset lost the toss, were put into bat On a green-tinged pitch- and raced to 500 on their way to victory by an innings.'
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:08:09:39 by AGod.
Grockle - if you are evaluating Compton mainly on time spent at the crease he has probably done a fair job. Only 2 50s, yes, but also a high number - maybe 6 - of scores in the 40s. I'd guess he probably spent 90-100 balls over those scores of 40 odd so reasonable crease occupation. But he's sort of only done half the job there - needs to push the 40s on in into the sort of scores of 75 or so that you mentioned if being assessed mainly on that criterion. He's not a millin miles away but I'm just not sure he has that extra 10 percent that he needs.
As for Brian Rose, I certainly do have faith in him as he has made some excellent signings. But no manager in sports history gets it right all of the time e.g. Dan Cullen, Omari Banks.
As for Brian Rose, I certainly do have faith in him as he has made some excellent signings. But no manager in sports history gets it right all of the time e.g. Dan Cullen, Omari Banks.
I went on Friday, left when we were 20-0 as it was cold and grey and I fancied a pint in Bristol.
The ground was looking a picture, I must say, sat mainly in the Old Pavillion and Gimblett Hill.
Early days, onwards and upwards.
The ground was looking a picture, I must say, sat mainly in the Old Pavillion and Gimblett Hill.
Early days, onwards and upwards.
Except Cullen came as part of the Cameron White deal and Rosey didn't go looking for Banks he made his own way here through the seconds. :-)
Yep Compton has more to do.
Yep Compton has more to do.
NW5S - so we were doing OK until you left??
I hope you feel suitably ashamed for "hexing" the team with your departure.
I hope you feel suitably ashamed for "hexing" the team with your departure.
My feeling on the result, and how it affects us going forward is very positive.
The manner and size of the defeat will have a very sobering affect on the professional sportsmen who form the squad, and that together with the proven qualities of the individuals will surely galvanise their efforts.
Five of that team have very real, and very current representative aspirations and they will have not only professional pride, but also aspirational needs to drive them on.
I think the future remains bright.
The manner and size of the defeat will have a very sobering affect on the professional sportsmen who form the squad, and that together with the proven qualities of the individuals will surely galvanise their efforts.
Five of that team have very real, and very current representative aspirations and they will have not only professional pride, but also aspirational needs to drive them on.
I think the future remains bright.
My thoughts precisely, Blub.
This could well be the kick up the harris we need.....unbeaten fron now on in.
Nice to see you, by the way.
This could well be the kick up the harris we need.....unbeaten fron now on in.
Nice to see you, by the way.
I'm on record as saying the Thoams IPL issue was a bad one for Somerset and shouldn't have been allowed. I think we missed him particularly in the last game because we didn't have Phillips and De Bruyn's experience and reliability. If AT was here he would not only bat at 8 but Kirby and Hussain would be competing for one place.
We took a gamble last season that our young players would be ready for the step up. Nothing in this last game has changed that, it was experienced county pros that failed. Tresco, Suppiah, Hildreth, Kieswetter and Trego are proven county batters. That has not changed and I have confidence they will deliver along with Buttler and possibly Compton in the top 7. One unfortunate thing is Comp[ton is under less pressure for his place this season because there is no Zander although Alex Barrow looks a good prospect.
Despite the battling collapse it's the bowling that's more of a worry since we have very much thrown in our lot with Kirby and Hussain. Both looked decent signings to me; and balanced the attack; up and coming young seamer, fire breathing huff and puffer. Hopefully Dibble will challenge them but as ever its wickets we need.
And we must attack. The selection for the last game had to be right. The fact we don't have a natural number 8 should not stop us playing the strongest possible bowling attack plus Trego.
On that subject is is time PT showed us he can really influence games with the ball?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:12:25:42 by Kentish Townie.
We took a gamble last season that our young players would be ready for the step up. Nothing in this last game has changed that, it was experienced county pros that failed. Tresco, Suppiah, Hildreth, Kieswetter and Trego are proven county batters. That has not changed and I have confidence they will deliver along with Buttler and possibly Compton in the top 7. One unfortunate thing is Comp[ton is under less pressure for his place this season because there is no Zander although Alex Barrow looks a good prospect.
Despite the battling collapse it's the bowling that's more of a worry since we have very much thrown in our lot with Kirby and Hussain. Both looked decent signings to me; and balanced the attack; up and coming young seamer, fire breathing huff and puffer. Hopefully Dibble will challenge them but as ever its wickets we need.
And we must attack. The selection for the last game had to be right. The fact we don't have a natural number 8 should not stop us playing the strongest possible bowling attack plus Trego.
On that subject is is time PT showed us he can really influence games with the ball?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:12:25:42 by Kentish Townie.
Well, Jim, I keep reading that this might be the kick up the harris "that we needed," or words to that effect.
I'd guess that perhaps a third of all our posters have offered some kind of variation on that theme.
The clear implication (of that line of thought) is that some complacency may have seeped its way in.
Personally, had we won everything (or most things) last season, then I could certainly see that being the case.
As it is, I'm not really sure why a team that (marginally) came second in everything would be complacent about this season. I suppose perhaps people are thinking that because the media are full of "Somerset win will it," stories that the players may have been believing all of that? Perhaps.
I still think it's more likely that we had a hangover from last season because the players physically gave EVERYTHING they had last season... many of them looked exhausted up at Durham, and then to get no trophies must have cut like a knife. Yes, there's been an intervening winter and some of our players have been playing for other teams but I just think that it could be there at the back of minds... we played so hard and so well for so long last season and we didn't get an ulimate reward.
I hope that "complacency," crowd are right because the result against Warks would certainly dispel any such feeling.
I hope I'm wrong that it was a hangover because that kind of result will not have been at all helpful if we were suffering a hangover in a way that it might be if we were thinking we were just going to turn up and win it all.
I'd guess that perhaps a third of all our posters have offered some kind of variation on that theme.
The clear implication (of that line of thought) is that some complacency may have seeped its way in.
Personally, had we won everything (or most things) last season, then I could certainly see that being the case.
As it is, I'm not really sure why a team that (marginally) came second in everything would be complacent about this season. I suppose perhaps people are thinking that because the media are full of "Somerset win will it," stories that the players may have been believing all of that? Perhaps.
I still think it's more likely that we had a hangover from last season because the players physically gave EVERYTHING they had last season... many of them looked exhausted up at Durham, and then to get no trophies must have cut like a knife. Yes, there's been an intervening winter and some of our players have been playing for other teams but I just think that it could be there at the back of minds... we played so hard and so well for so long last season and we didn't get an ulimate reward.
I hope that "complacency," crowd are right because the result against Warks would certainly dispel any such feeling.
I hope I'm wrong that it was a hangover because that kind of result will not have been at all helpful if we were suffering a hangover in a way that it might be if we were thinking we were just going to turn up and win it all.
Blub, if the future's bright does that mean we'll all be wearing Oranjeboom wigs!
Steve Kirby wigs?
Thanks BJ. Sadly, work is taking an inordinate amount away from my Interweb time these days!
Thanks BJ. Sadly, work is taking an inordinate amount away from my Interweb time these days!
Quote:Grockle
Except Cullen came as part of the Cameron White deal and Rosey didn't go looking for Banks he made his own way here through the seconds.
Why do you imagine either, that Cullen was joined at the hip to Cameron White, or that Banks just turned at Somerset and asked to play?
It's never been what I understood to be the case.
Very strange.
I also had no idea that Dan Cullen was anything to do with Cameron White?
I know Banks had trial games in the second XI (which actually went very well). But he didn't decide to award himself a contract at SCCC.
As I say, Brian's done a great job and made some superb signings, but everyone makes a mistake sometimes, as was the case with Cullen.
I know Banks had trial games in the second XI (which actually went very well). But he didn't decide to award himself a contract at SCCC.
As I say, Brian's done a great job and made some superb signings, but everyone makes a mistake sometimes, as was the case with Cullen.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
White and Cullen came over in the same year, but I can't see anything to say that we had to take Cullen if we wanted White.
White and Cullen came over in the same year, but I can't see anything to say that we had to take Cullen if we wanted White.
Didn't say we did AG. Cullen came over for experience. In the same way we agreed to take Mornie Morkel with Greame Smith when he came over in 2005 (he didn't come because of an ankle injury I think) He didn't get much first class stuff because we hardly played him.
The point I was making was we did not go an look at him he came as part of a deal with the bloke we did want - Cam. I don't know where you got the idea that he was some kind of deal breaker CP - certainly not from me.
Omari Banks came in exactly the way you see as so unlikely. He was not considered as an International buy. He was allowed to play for our seconds - something he did for part of the season before he was even considered as a first team option.
He was then considered as any other second team player because he was (and I am with you on struggling to accept it was true) one of the best spinning options we had at the time. So he made his way into the first team through the seconds and NOT as some end product of a BR international scouting expedition. The rest is history... :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:20:06:07 by Grockle.
The point I was making was we did not go an look at him he came as part of a deal with the bloke we did want - Cam. I don't know where you got the idea that he was some kind of deal breaker CP - certainly not from me.
Omari Banks came in exactly the way you see as so unlikely. He was not considered as an International buy. He was allowed to play for our seconds - something he did for part of the season before he was even considered as a first team option.
He was then considered as any other second team player because he was (and I am with you on struggling to accept it was true) one of the best spinning options we had at the time. So he made his way into the first team through the seconds and NOT as some end product of a BR international scouting expedition. The rest is history... :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:20:06:07 by Grockle.
Sorry to return to the Alf/IPL subject but I learnt today that the ECB effectively force a clause in player contracts that allow for IPL inclusion.
Yes, you read that correct, any contract a player has with Somerset has an ECB influence/condition.
This info was obtained via Essex CCC, I have provided a link for those interested. The website is run and moderated by the club.
Hope this clears up any issue.
[forums.essexcricket.org.uk]
Yes, you read that correct, any contract a player has with Somerset has an ECB influence/condition.
This info was obtained via Essex CCC, I have provided a link for those interested. The website is run and moderated by the club.
Hope this clears up any issue.
[forums.essexcricket.org.uk]
Grockle (17.51 today): for the sake of pedantry, it was Albie Morkel, not Mornie.
PS I've not seen LoL's name on here lately - anyone heard from him? I do hope the great man is well...
PS I've not seen LoL's name on here lately - anyone heard from him? I do hope the great man is well...
LoL is probably conducting an HM investigation into how SCCC having been 118 for 1, contrived to then lose 19 wickets for 142 runs. If Pakistan had done that there would be an ICC investigation!!!
And no, I'm not seriously trying to suggest that what happened was the result of anything other than some good balls and some rather shocking batting.
And no, I'm not seriously trying to suggest that what happened was the result of anything other than some good balls and some rather shocking batting.
I thought about that Shep - I came down on Mornie...thought he was the older. But checking back you are, of course, right.
Such daft names! Was it his ankle that stopped him coming?
Such daft names! Was it his ankle that stopped him coming?
Thanks to Essex and RAO for the info re: Alf's contract.
I do find myself rather hoping that Pune decide they've not been happy with Alf and 'send him home.'
I do find myself rather hoping that Pune decide they've not been happy with Alf and 'send him home.'
Kartik was something of an afterthought in the auction, so I suppose his non selection is not entirely astonishing.
We have Mendis under contract but if they want to send Kartik back so he can resume as soon as Mendis leaves, so much the better!
We have Mendis under contract but if they want to send Kartik back so he can resume as soon as Mendis leaves, so much the better!
Omari Banks played one game for Somerset Second XI in 2007 after having been recommended by Jack Birkenshaw, the former Somerset coach.
He did well in that game, scoring a hundred and taking 5 wickets, so Rosey signed him up.
Banks had previously played for Leicestershire in 2001, and Birkenshaw was also a coach at that club at some time.
Cullen was signed at the same time as White, but his contract was later terminated by mutual consent in the stated view that he was required to return to Oz for a training camp.
"The point I was making was we did not go an look at him he came as part of a deal with the bloke we did want - Cam."
He never came as part of any deal whichever way you want to dress it up in words.
He did well in that game, scoring a hundred and taking 5 wickets, so Rosey signed him up.
Banks had previously played for Leicestershire in 2001, and Birkenshaw was also a coach at that club at some time.
Cullen was signed at the same time as White, but his contract was later terminated by mutual consent in the stated view that he was required to return to Oz for a training camp.
"The point I was making was we did not go an look at him he came as part of a deal with the bloke we did want - Cam."
He never came as part of any deal whichever way you want to dress it up in words.
Well its all interpretation isn't it?
Cullen wasn't planned White was. Cullen became available because we were looking at signing White. The understanding at the time seemed to be that Cullen was a prospect and White was going to mentor him hence the opporunity to sign him. He played more than I thought he had but once it was obvious it wasn't working he went to the Oz A camp and on to play games for them.
Banks wasn't planned and wasn't even an international signing. Was he part of a scouting mission made by Rose? Don't think so.
Birkenshaw recommended a player and we took him as a second eleven player and checked him out...isn't that the way its done? Did Banks come through the second eleven system like any other player? Think he did.
He played some 9 second eleven games for us in 2008 and a smattering of T20 and one day games plus some games in the ProARCH trophy.
His primarily first team season was 2009 and he got there on merit even though his skill was limited IMHO.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:21:32:35 by Grockle.
Cullen wasn't planned White was. Cullen became available because we were looking at signing White. The understanding at the time seemed to be that Cullen was a prospect and White was going to mentor him hence the opporunity to sign him. He played more than I thought he had but once it was obvious it wasn't working he went to the Oz A camp and on to play games for them.
Banks wasn't planned and wasn't even an international signing. Was he part of a scouting mission made by Rose? Don't think so.
Birkenshaw recommended a player and we took him as a second eleven player and checked him out...isn't that the way its done? Did Banks come through the second eleven system like any other player? Think he did.
He played some 9 second eleven games for us in 2008 and a smattering of T20 and one day games plus some games in the ProARCH trophy.
His primarily first team season was 2009 and he got there on merit even though his skill was limited IMHO.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:18:21:32:35 by Grockle.
Phew chaps! I don't care. Just hoping that we will be discussing what a great win we had over Lancashire this time next week!
Maybe the pedentary will end on Wednesday OB when the cricket starts again - you never know :=)
Not sure the signs are that good though
Not sure the signs are that good though
Haven't posted since last week .Thought I'd leave a few days to reflect on last week's performance.My main thoughts are that;
We are still a good team(Not great)
WE cannot go into another game with a tail like we had.Would assume probably Gregory would replace Kirby.
Probably a good wake up call for everyone.If you are going to lose a game like that better now than later in the season.
Only positive PT.Unlucky with the ball and batted sensibly.
Mendis . Totally unsure.At least Max spins the ball. Make be worth a chance,although would assume Mendis 's contract would mean automatic selection
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:19:08:56:44 by nelliec.
We are still a good team(Not great)
WE cannot go into another game with a tail like we had.Would assume probably Gregory would replace Kirby.
Probably a good wake up call for everyone.If you are going to lose a game like that better now than later in the season.
Only positive PT.Unlucky with the ball and batted sensibly.
Mendis . Totally unsure.At least Max spins the ball. Make be worth a chance,although would assume Mendis 's contract would mean automatic selection
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:19:08:56:44 by nelliec.
YOu may assume Gregory, Nellie C, and I would think it would make most sense from a tail reduction stand-point.
However, it appears that the thinking of Brian/Marcus is that Dibble would come in. No idea what Dibble's prowess with the bat is like, although difficult to believe it could be any worse than Kirby/Hussain/Charl.
As for Mendis, it seems he was much better on day two than day one. It should be at least 4 or 5 degrees warmer at Liverpool (based on the forecast) than at Taunton (hardly like Sri Lanka, but not so cold that the fingers and wrist struggle to function) and something is very wrong if he has not now had an extensive practice with the Dukes ball in the nets. He should also be less jet-lagged.
I'd be pretty surprised, to say the least, if he does not give a respectable performance at Liverpool. Then again, I was totally flabbergasted by his first day at Taunton, so what do I know?
Of course, some will point out that the performance of the tail at Taunton made almost no difference, given the fact that the top order capitulated. They'd be right in that particular instance.
However, there are two circumstances in which it can make a difference. The first can be demonstrated with reference to the Warks game;
1) The follow-on target was 492. Let's say the first six wickets put on 450. Nobody could really say that this would consistute "failure," by the batsman. That would leave one specialist batsman (or Pete) to try to add 42 for the final four wickets. If the non-batsmen fold and we have to follow-on then having a rubbish tail would have affected us.
2) If we'd actually bowled Warks out for a reasonable total, say 350, then even if the top order had failed - let's say the first six wickets made only 150 runs, a good lower-order rally could still be the difference between a deficit on first-innings of 90-100 runs, as opposed to a deficit of 170 runs. A small deficit on first innings gives our batsmen more chance of pulling it around on second innings.
However, it appears that the thinking of Brian/Marcus is that Dibble would come in. No idea what Dibble's prowess with the bat is like, although difficult to believe it could be any worse than Kirby/Hussain/Charl.
As for Mendis, it seems he was much better on day two than day one. It should be at least 4 or 5 degrees warmer at Liverpool (based on the forecast) than at Taunton (hardly like Sri Lanka, but not so cold that the fingers and wrist struggle to function) and something is very wrong if he has not now had an extensive practice with the Dukes ball in the nets. He should also be less jet-lagged.
I'd be pretty surprised, to say the least, if he does not give a respectable performance at Liverpool. Then again, I was totally flabbergasted by his first day at Taunton, so what do I know?
Of course, some will point out that the performance of the tail at Taunton made almost no difference, given the fact that the top order capitulated. They'd be right in that particular instance.
However, there are two circumstances in which it can make a difference. The first can be demonstrated with reference to the Warks game;
1) The follow-on target was 492. Let's say the first six wickets put on 450. Nobody could really say that this would consistute "failure," by the batsman. That would leave one specialist batsman (or Pete) to try to add 42 for the final four wickets. If the non-batsmen fold and we have to follow-on then having a rubbish tail would have affected us.
2) If we'd actually bowled Warks out for a reasonable total, say 350, then even if the top order had failed - let's say the first six wickets made only 150 runs, a good lower-order rally could still be the difference between a deficit on first-innings of 90-100 runs, as opposed to a deficit of 170 runs. A small deficit on first innings gives our batsmen more chance of pulling it around on second innings.
I just thing you're wrong on this tail reduction stuff AGod.
Warwicks scored 650 in the first innings which suggests more than ever we need to focus on taking wickets. To do that we need a balanced attack with three specialist frontline seamers, a specialist spinner and an all rounder. At least.
Of course it would be ideal if one was a natural number 8 as Phillips was. But we have what should be a strong top 7, and weakening our bowling to incorporate another all rounder won't help.
There's nothing wrong with the structure of the team, it's just the various players haven't contributed. Hopefully with Thomas arriving, and Dibble coming on, there will be more competition for the seamer spots.
Warwicks scored 650 in the first innings which suggests more than ever we need to focus on taking wickets. To do that we need a balanced attack with three specialist frontline seamers, a specialist spinner and an all rounder. At least.
Of course it would be ideal if one was a natural number 8 as Phillips was. But we have what should be a strong top 7, and weakening our bowling to incorporate another all rounder won't help.
There's nothing wrong with the structure of the team, it's just the various players haven't contributed. Hopefully with Thomas arriving, and Dibble coming on, there will be more competition for the seamer spots.
On a track like the one at Liverpool, KT, I do not think that SCCC should need five bowlers.
Have a look at past results there and at Bagpuss's description of what she saw last week.
I think it's certainly fair to say that the track tends to favour the ball, often markedly. So runs are more likely to be at a premium than wickets, irrespective of what happened at Taunton.
In any event, I still maintain that had Mendis bowled at even 50% of his best, as oppposed to about 5% (!) on day one at Taunton then the Warks score would probably have been something more like 350 for 8 at the end of the day, rather than 400 for 6.
In other words, I think we will find Mendis will bowl well and that we will not, therefore, need five bowlers at Liverpool. Runs, however, may be tougher to come by. Many of us have commented that our batting line-up features quite a few aggressive stroke players. Bagpuss has described this ground as being one that tends to need quite a careful approach, especially to start with.
Have a look at past results there and at Bagpuss's description of what she saw last week.
I think it's certainly fair to say that the track tends to favour the ball, often markedly. So runs are more likely to be at a premium than wickets, irrespective of what happened at Taunton.
In any event, I still maintain that had Mendis bowled at even 50% of his best, as oppposed to about 5% (!) on day one at Taunton then the Warks score would probably have been something more like 350 for 8 at the end of the day, rather than 400 for 6.
In other words, I think we will find Mendis will bowl well and that we will not, therefore, need five bowlers at Liverpool. Runs, however, may be tougher to come by. Many of us have commented that our batting line-up features quite a few aggressive stroke players. Bagpuss has described this ground as being one that tends to need quite a careful approach, especially to start with.
Have to agree with you KT. There is no way that a solution to batting issue is to replace one of a new bowling attack after one game. The only reason to do that is because you assume the batting attack will fail again.
In that case replace one of the batsmen! Leave the bowlers to do their job.
The question about whether Lewis or Adam are the best person to fill a gap will only come in this game IF Steve Kirby is unfit to complete said game
The illustrations of what the tail might be needed for in hypothetical games with hypothetical scores is pointless.
Let's assume that rather than being bowled out for 7, The first four batsmen had hypothetically all scored double hundreds by the middle of day 3 and we had declared some 350 runs ahead then we might have needed those bowlers as bowlers rather than an allrounder/seamer making his Championship debut...then again hypothetically he might have taken a hatrick for 10...who the hell knows?
In that case replace one of the batsmen! Leave the bowlers to do their job.
The question about whether Lewis or Adam are the best person to fill a gap will only come in this game IF Steve Kirby is unfit to complete said game
The illustrations of what the tail might be needed for in hypothetical games with hypothetical scores is pointless.
Let's assume that rather than being bowled out for 7, The first four batsmen had hypothetically all scored double hundreds by the middle of day 3 and we had declared some 350 runs ahead then we might have needed those bowlers as bowlers rather than an allrounder/seamer making his Championship debut...then again hypothetically he might have taken a hatrick for 10...who the hell knows?
Batting collapses like ours last Saturday are the stuff of nightmares. But not only our nightmares!!
Middlesex took ALL of Essex's wickets in the single day while we were simply falling apart the once! Then again Essex only lost by 8 wickets not by the kicking we got.
Still....was there something in the air?
Middlesex took ALL of Essex's wickets in the single day while we were simply falling apart the once! Then again Essex only lost by 8 wickets not by the kicking we got.
Still....was there something in the air?
You mentioned the other day about how Strauss struggled in Div Two for Middx last season.
To be honest, though, I think incumbent England batsmen ( but not bowlers) tend to fail across the board in County cricket. Cook failed twice against Middx.
I think England batsmen fail in county cricket chiefly because they are not focussed.
It may seem a distant memory now but Marcus's record for SCCC whilst he was an England test regular was extremely modest on the occasions when he played.
As and when Strauss joins the fray this season, I predict he will fail again. And I suspect that Cook will go on failing too. But I don't think there's a credible explanation other than poor focus levels.
The best record by England players last season were by the Warks pair, Trott and Bell who averaged about 38 each for Warks. The records of Strauss and KP were awful and I do not recall Cook pulling up trees last season.
I don't think the case can be made that Div Two is somehow of a great standard and that's the cause of the problem. We know a number of the players in Div Two. For example, Steffan Jones - great competitior and love the guy, but he's not a Test match standard bowler so I don't think he and other Div Two bowlers, many of whom have worse records than Jonah, are somehow too good for the likes of Strauss and Cook.
To be honest, though, I think incumbent England batsmen ( but not bowlers) tend to fail across the board in County cricket. Cook failed twice against Middx.
I think England batsmen fail in county cricket chiefly because they are not focussed.
It may seem a distant memory now but Marcus's record for SCCC whilst he was an England test regular was extremely modest on the occasions when he played.
As and when Strauss joins the fray this season, I predict he will fail again. And I suspect that Cook will go on failing too. But I don't think there's a credible explanation other than poor focus levels.
The best record by England players last season were by the Warks pair, Trott and Bell who averaged about 38 each for Warks. The records of Strauss and KP were awful and I do not recall Cook pulling up trees last season.
I don't think the case can be made that Div Two is somehow of a great standard and that's the cause of the problem. We know a number of the players in Div Two. For example, Steffan Jones - great competitior and love the guy, but he's not a Test match standard bowler so I don't think he and other Div Two bowlers, many of whom have worse records than Jonah, are somehow too good for the likes of Strauss and Cook.
Gosh I guess you're right.
Ergo ALL of Division 2 is rubbish and should be consigned to Minor County status with some kind of transition phase for all those players wanting to make the significant step to the extremely difficult upper echelons of Division 1.
Maybe these batsmen simply can't downgrade their exquisite timing to deal with the dross being delivered to them in their county games?
Well proved AG - no need to obsess this even further you've made your point conclusively. :-)
Ergo ALL of Division 2 is rubbish and should be consigned to Minor County status with some kind of transition phase for all those players wanting to make the significant step to the extremely difficult upper echelons of Division 1.
Maybe these batsmen simply can't downgrade their exquisite timing to deal with the dross being delivered to them in their county games?
Well proved AG - no need to obsess this even further you've made your point conclusively. :-)
Did I say that?
Gloss over it all with a load of extremeist generalisations if you want.
Gloss over it all with a load of extremeist generalisations if you want.
Generalisations?..geese and ganders.
I personally think this is done - another game in progress.
I personally think this is done - another game in progress.
In 18 years with Somerset, I've never known a Taunton pitch like that one
Is Marcus blaming the Taunton pitch??
There is a well-known pattern to how green pitches play at the County Ground. On the opening day, they offer most assistance to the bowlers. From then on, they tend to flatten out and become easier to bat on.
Do you agree with that statement? I am not sure I do.
Read the rest - [www.thisisbristol.co.uk]
Lets face it how many have read the pitch correctly at Taunton or for that matter away from Taunton.
Is Marcus blaming the Taunton pitch??
There is a well-known pattern to how green pitches play at the County Ground. On the opening day, they offer most assistance to the bowlers. From then on, they tend to flatten out and become easier to bat on.
Do you agree with that statement? I am not sure I do.
Read the rest - [www.thisisbristol.co.uk]
Lets face it how many have read the pitch correctly at Taunton or for that matter away from Taunton.
Our groundsmen cannot really win, it seems to me. Mr Frost got moaned at for years because the pitch did not tend to deteriorate over time. And now we are flummoxed because it did not flatten out this time!
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