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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:08:18:33 by Grockle.

So Leicestershire Foxes on Sunday T Grace Road.

Hopefully they will act as an initial salve on the wounds inflicted by Sussex this week and allow a more reflective preparation for Yorkshire at Taunton next Tuesday.

The side to meet them should give some indications of thinking (at least one hopes so) and we'll all be looking for signs of recovery in the ranks from the 1:45 start.

Just had a glance at our squad of 25 to see what is in the cupboard.

besides the fact that it includes Abdur who isn't here yet and If you replace Elgar for the absent Petersen there are still two questions

Is James Burke still on our books because he is a named member of the squad

Who the hell is Robert Mutch (other than a hero of English mythlogy and a Miller's son)

Apologies also to James Regan. I think I've spelt it Reagan somewhere but I'm not going to go and look for it. I'll just promise to do better in future.

Robert Mutch played in one Clydesdale Bank 40 game for us last year v. Scotland.

He had been playing club cricket in Devon, I believe.

[cricketarchive.com]

I do not think that James Burke has a contract of any sort with us now, but has played in the odd Second XI game, I believe.

Well Cricinfo don't know that then because he's still on the list. I also thought he'd been released.

Was Mr Mutch's game in Scotland because I have absolutely no recollection of him at all.

Left hand fast medium according to the stats.

James Burke was playing in the Sussex 2nd Eleven match this week. According to the club site.

Details

Yes he played in the game in Scotland last year grockle. Left armer with a strong action. Bowled a couple of guys out. Don't know where he's disappeared to though!!

The official squad [www.somersetcountycc.co.uk]

James Burke scored 88 in the first innings of the Seconds match v Sussex.

Of course he did Ron. I remember him now. We were down to the bare bones and he came in and did the job although he was a little on the expensive side. I listened to the commentary at home in the UK I think. Certainly didn't see him so it must have been the away leg.

I'll be there, looking forward to it.
We have been spoilt for years with the quality of cricket we have had to watch.
We are so used to our team competing strongly over all formats many of us seem to be struggling with a few weeks of yes, very poor 4 day efforts.
I will be cheering us on Sunday as loud as ever and hopefully another big 40 over win will set us on right track for Yorkies on Tuesday.

Careful WSM it seems people like us are delusional.

I'm not pretending the last 3 LVCC matches have been acceptable, far from it.
Our batting has been nothing short of awful, we have not even competed let alone looked close to winning.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one forces us to support Somerset.
As I said we have been so lucky the last 5/6 years to have a team that has strongly competed in all formats.
We have just experienced a few weeks of very poor performances and many are struggling to accept it as we just aren't used to it.
Try supporting Leics, Glam, Glos, Kent etc.
People are free to comment, criticise, complain as much as they like but I don't see many solutions being offered.
There is not the possibility of going and signing a new team.
In the winter the likes of Plunkett, Harris, Goodwin, Brooks all moved. I'm unsure how hard we tried to sign any of these (Guy quotes us having missed out on 2 targets who chose to go elsewhere)
Therefore we have to stick with what we have or throw in a bunch of untried kids, 2nd teamers who to my knowledge have yet to prove anywhere they are good enough or ready as yet.
We need to support the guys we have and trust those in charge that they will turn things around.

No argument from me.. but then I'm in the same boat you are.

There are still things to try without excessive panicking and I'm sure we'll see them occurring in the next few games. At the T20 break we may have a better CC1 picture but on Sunday we need to keep piling on the 40 over stuff. There is little better for lifting spirits than a good competition run

WSM I think the two Guy Lavender mentioned were probably
James Harris & Rory Hamilton Brown.

Yes I did think those would be the 2.

My point was there was what 6/8 decent domestic players available, and understandably probably 8/10/12 different counties all keen them (all with differing appeal and financial clout)
It's easy to say we didn't strengthen but realistically it is not easy to do, we can not force Harris, Brooks etc to join us.
We outbid many others a few years back to bring in Hussain, that hasn't worked out too well!

Agree with you.

And in some cases it not all about money.
In any case don't think you can buy a winning team.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:24:22:22:14 by Roger ivanhoe.

Exactly, I guess part of us getting Kirby and Hussain was location, not having to uproot etc from Glos.

For Harris i'd guess it was the pull of a test match ground, maybe the appeal of a big city and the perception that you get more noticed at a fashionable county.

I'd guess similar logic went for Brooks.

Plunkett again hasn't moved far location wise.

Hamilton Brown had well publicised issues, he clearly felt happiest going back to Sussex.

Prince was rumoured to be a possible but understandable he has stuck with Lancs as has history there.

Goodwin I personally would not have been against but hardly a long term signing at his age..

It's too easy to complain we did not strengthen but it is just not easy to do in cricket.
People think it's like football where you can easily buy 5-6 players in the off season, it just does not work that way in cricket.

"wsm fan" i think your last sentence may also explain some off the calls for wholesale changes of management, the removal of the captain. short term loanees on this site over the last couple of days.

All of these strike me as the general responce of football followers when things aren't going to plan and not those of cricket followers.

We can't reach any kind of consistent agreement on this site and the only solution will have to be to sack somebody in authority. That narrows it down to just one person... oops, it's his site and he can take it from us but we can't take it from him.

Smacks of socialist leanings that LoL.

The Grocklite 'special police' will be popping around to see you quite soon - don't pack anything.

I'm the bloody "Sultan" here and don't you forget it.

As some keep telling me.. " It's your site and you can do what you want" but its a sort of Marxist conundrum. After you've piddled everyone off - who do you talk to? But in the eyes of some I seem to be having a damn good try!

There is no one solution to this. It might be different for every player in small ways but I've got no doubt that there are long meetings and discussions going on at the ground, at players homes, in the pub about how to get this moving in the right direction. After all, this iis a cricket players livelihood and the thing they've worked for since before their added life.

We watch it and go home. They live it.

Quote:

Loyal of Lhasa.
That narrows it down to just one person... oops, it's his site and he can take it from us but we can't take it from him.

And as I've said rather indelicately before - it is his baby and he has got to change the nappy if there is any mess!!

Being the creep I am, IMO he is doing OK and should receive a packet of huggies from every Grocklee at Christmas!!

One general pack of Huggies should be enough OB, there's rarely too much to clean up and as some will attest, I create some of it myself

My dear old mother did always say I was a 'mucky pup'

I see the story on last Sunday's game is that Alf was simply 'rested,' as per Tres's newspaper column.

Extraordinary decision, IMO, to make a call to simply rest a player so late in the day that the team-sheets had already been handed in.

Hard to believe!

Quite.

Another inquest on a past decision.

Thomas could well have had a very slight twinge in practise,
Therefore at the at the last minute they decided to rest his twinge.

So much easier to say he is rested.

We won, move on we won, we won.

Agreed. Not an incident of major importance in the grand scheme

And he bowled well through the week so little wrong with him I think!!

You don't think that maybe someone made a correct decision do you Ron? Without telling us the real reason in advance!!! (TiC)

Good decision all round. Didn't miss him despite the fact he is our best one day bowler.

Still hard to believe.

No idea what the 'in advance,' bit refers to, Grockle, but does not make sense as I was referring to Marcus's column that was written after the Middx match.

Logically, when a change happens that late it's almost always down to an injury sustained in the warm-up or sudden illness.

So I doubt that he was simply rested but if he was it smacks of disorganisation to have made such a decision so late.

Yeah you are so right AG.... must smack of disorganisation and therefore be a major problem we must analyse.

Or the right decision given the result and the later performance but let's discount that as a possibility because... well you already have.

Wicket keeper/batsman Niall O`Brien, who hit a century in Leicstersbire`s only YB40 match so far this season (a win against Glo`shire), will miss tomorrow`s game with Somerset at Grace Road. He will be playing for Ireland in the second ODI against Pakistan.

Ned Eckersley will keep wicket, and the match with mark the competition debut of Australian `A` batsman Joe Burns, who is filling in as overseas player while Ramnaresh Sarwin is with the West Indies Champions Trophy squad.

Leicestershire will select from: Cobb (c), Smith, Burns, Eckersely, Boyce, Thakor, Taylor, Naik, Sykes, Williams, Buck, Wyatt and Ireland.

I suppose we'll be waiting a little while for ours. Ref bringing someone in CJM - any idea how quickly it gets done. I think it used to be pretty easy when Snelly was a free agent and lived up the road





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:25:11:15:57 by Grockle.

Wonder if Craig K will be included or not ready for next week?
And how fit or not is Lewis?
We know Compo and George are not available.
Thomas I would expect to come back in for Jamie O.

My expectation based on the above would be.

Tres, Tregs, Arul, Alviro, Hildy, Jos, Craig K/JaMie O, Mesch, Alfie, Max, Kirbs

Without being too disrepectful to the Leics line up we should have few problems keeping our 100% record.

We have too much quality man for man.

If it's flat I'm sure we're very likely to win.

If the track seams around, however, it could be a different story with our track record against a moving ball being so poor this season.

Once again the official site leaves us to guess the squad for the game.

They must be waiting for you to tell them AG

Agod, is it really that important to you that you know the squad before the day of the game. Why do you feel the need to criticise everything

Could you not just post your idea of what the squad might be a have a discussion

Well here we go... things we do kow from the site.

Trigger will be opening with Tres

Dean Elgar will not start until Tuesday

James will probably play as will Jos if he is still available. If he is then Alviro might also be. Alfonso will probably not be rested for this one as injuries may make Lewis and Craig M possible non staterters which will be a shame.

Should those injuries exist then the critics of Steve Kirby will have another oppotunity to complain - hope he gets as many wickets as when they last complained. The Elgar interview tends to suggest that Craig K will not be in for this one if I interpret it right.

Max will be an option - did well with his long hops last time and would be in any Somerset fielding side picked

So a squad of
Marcus, Trego, Hildreth, (Petersen), (Buttler), (Gregory - unlikely),(Barrow keeper), Thomas, Kirby, Overton J (Meschede) Waller, Leach

It has to be more than 8 so some in brackets will be there and as there are only 13, should they all be there the side will be the list above with Barrow and Gregory probably out of it.

Have I missed anyone? If both Jos and Alviro have left for their respective camps then Alex will play (and keep?) and we are a batsman down - Burke did well in the week. Regan didn't but he is a keeper.

Hmmm interesting isn't it?

Is Craig M injured, Grockle. Hadn't heard that?

Thought he was. I'm assuming he will be there though. Wonder if they will play Lewis as a batsman and not bowl him if they are short.

Can't for the life of me work out if Jos and Alviro are available or not.

Squad has finally gone up within the last ten minutes.

Jos and Alviro both in it. Craig M in it. Lewis G not in squad but Barrow is.

So I think you'd guessed the right squad except that Barrow is almost certainly there as a batsman not a keeper, as Jos will play.

Don't think Craig m is injured. It's Craig o that Is. Jos tweeted about being in Leicester last night so he is in and alviro flies to Amsterdam tomorrow to meet up with the SA squad tomorrow after the game. Funny that SA thought they had drafted in an in form batsman. He's hardly scored a run for over a fortnight since he was picked!!

@somersetbiltong currently in Horsham until sat. Sun at leicester and monday off to Amsterdam. Won't be in taunton until after #ct13


Alviro's Twitter Account.

It's hardly surprising that we're not sure re:injuries as the info provided is scant.

For example, the info about Craig O came from Bagpuss. I've no reason to doubt the info but unless Bagpuss has been appointed by the club to liaise with this site then some sort of more official news would be welcome!

Equally, I've yet to see anything on the official site to confirm the situation re:Lewis G nor re:Adam Dibble.

I don't think there was much of an update on George when he had his injury either.

One thing the website has got right this season is much better info on second team games...but I don't remember squad/injury news being this slow/scant in previous seasons?

We will all know the team in a few hours.

The tension is getting to me, time to take the dog for a walk.

Is it raining or will it rain, will we win........


That was stupid of course we will win.

Squad same as at Sussex, plus Craig Meschede and Max Waller.

How we all managed to contain our curiosity about the squad until this morning I just don't know.

one quiet and one loud.

Leics won toss and put Somerset in to bat
Tres/Tregs/Arul/Alviro/Hildy/Jos/Mesch/Alf/Kirbs/Max/Jove

And Somerset's favourite umpire (TIC)

Peter Trego has scored half-centuries in each of his four YB40 innings this season.

Almost the complete opposite of his Pro 40 batting form at the start of last season.

Unless form changes drastically during the T20 then one wonders if CK may be batting at three in one day stuff, when he returns?

Depending on how good a batting track this is we might want Jos in soon to ensure the largest possible total?

Many congratulations to Peter Trego. In his fifteenth season, this is his third century in List A matches.

Well done indeed to the brother of brother of.

Wickham & Bobstan: a formidable bowling combination!

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Well done Somerset another big score, are we going to end up with most runs scored in the competition?

Every batsman's SR over a hundred and Jos over two hundred.

Well played Pete.

323 should be more than enough.

Beautifully paced innings -0vers 21-30 the slowest but still at nearly 5.

Someone in India is going to throw ridiculous money at Jos Buttler very soon. And who can blame them?

Hope he holds off.

And this is the reason they have brought alviro in to mix in with the hitters especially for the t20!!

Quotation from 'Jos and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat' = words by a former President of the MCC.

"He'll Buttle as he did before." And this afternoon he did.

What a difference a day makes.

Did something happen yesterday?

Time to bring on Max!

Kirby is leaking runs like a sieve.

Wickets needed.

Steve Kirby - I think he talks better than he bowls now! Sorry Steve, but talking and blustering to yourself doesn't help when Anno Domini is catching up on you. 95 - 0! I still believe our problems are more with the bowlers our selectors are picking rather than batting questions.

I think we might need a wicket or two

All forgot Leicester were playing and this would be a formality !!

And horror of horror!! Who is umpiring?? Cook N!! Lord help us.

Hmmmmm...Jos only getting 25 balls of crease time could yet cause a problem, at this rate...

Jos's 25 balls is the reason we can't defend 320 odd then? Think it might be down to other reasons I'm afraid.

Nope it's not the reason we're having issues defending in the power-play BUT it might have put our score totally out of reach had we got him in sooner.

Good grief, Arul's one over makes himself look like Mushtaq compared to our other bowlers.

Was it Cobb that took a shine to us in the T20 final, or was that Jefferson?

Well he's a far better bowler than many give him credit for.

So the first wicket fell at 120 in the 15th over. Should Buttler have gone in then? Last week Arul scored 60 in quick time and today scored at 140
If not, then the next wicket went in the 21st over at 166.
Was that the time to send in Buttler- Petersen got 50 last week and stil scored at over a run a ball.Ifit's anybody's fault that Buttler only faced 25 balls it's Petersen's for making 50 instead of 20 and not getting out earlier!!! (tongue firmly in cheek). If Leicester chase down 324 they deserve to win

Well 2 overs for 4 compared to 10 an over for everyone else...earning a run in the 40 over side..

and we deserve to lose

If Leicester chase down 324, gm, we deserve to lose.
Great credit due to Leicestershire, but still...

Has any side in the history of 40 over cricket made more than 300 runs batting first and then contrived to lose by 10 wickets?

I doubt it? So could be a defeat of historic proportions.

I know, I know, well done Leics and all that but, still...

Unusual for you to blow something out of all proportion.

I think it'll be a poor bowling performance rather than the end of the cricketing world as we know it but each to his own.

It's the fault of the Heavy Roller.

Quote:

Grockle
I think it'll be a poor bowling performance rather than the end of the cricketing world as we know it but each to his own.

I agree Grockle. IMO it reinforces my view that the selectors will not trust the younger bowlers to perform. I'm afraid they need to be bowled to gain the experience whereas if the older fellas can't get it right, I'm afraid their time is up.

We have a selection problem ref bowling NOT batting.

There are obviously major problems at Somerset. More than any of us thought i think!!

Maybe as our one day form goes South our four day form may return from the wilderness. It's all a little crazy at the moment - oh for a bit of predictability.

Kirby got the main man, all we have to do is get the others.

The only reason there's no 'selection,' problem re:batting is because there are virtually no options.

You can't get away, Old Boy, from the fact that the batsmen have strung the worst 3 game CC batting streak since the dark days of 2006.

But, yeah, we have bowling issues as well but not instead of batting issues.

At least one good thing will come out of today's cricket nationwide. Surely Nick Compton will be with us for the rest of the summer??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:26:18:19:18 by old boy!.

Strangely enough although it looks as though this game has gone, Leics still need 90 at 6 an over. I am prepared to be amazed.

The game never over until the last ball.

Well someone had better put the brake on.

100 off 10 in one of these is not usually that much of a problem with wickets in hand.

They don't win very often, Leics, so they could get a nose-bleed but it would still be quite a surprise.

Quote:

geordie moonraker
So the first wicket fell at 120 in the 15th over. Should Buttler have gone in then? Last week Arul scored 60 in quick time and today scored at 140
If not, then the next wicket went in the 21st over at 166.
Was that the time to send in Buttler- Petersen got 50 last week and stil scored at over a run a ball.Ifit's anybody's fault that Buttler only faced 25 balls it's Petersen's for making 50 instead of 20 and not getting out earlier!!! (tongue firmly in cheek). If Leicester chase down 324 they deserve to win

Jos should bat at four for SCCC in one-day cricket.

I was pleased that they at least moved him up to five rather than sending Hildreth out but you still want your quickest-scoring batsmen to get plenty of crease time.

Petersen did not make 50 last week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:26:18:32:41 by AGod.

Thank you AG . I stand corrected...memory going.

I think this is the second time I've agreed with you today. JB should definitely bat at four in one-day matches.

(He should probably also bowl from both ends)

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Did Alf bowl so badly earlier that it's not worth bringing him back on even with all his one day experience?

Today’s events at Grace Road are surely the set of circumstances that can occur from time to time in a one – day match, which has been played on, what would appear to be from the scores, a ‘Motorway’.

Our 4 – day form is, I would suggest, something completely different again.

Whilst we look at our young players with justifiable pride, I agree with what Kentish Townie said a few days ago – viz: - too many of them can bat a bit and bowl a bit, but are not strong enough in either discipline to merit a place in the side on either discipline alone.

A well – balanced side in the longer format of the game should not merit 3, 4 or even more so called ‘all – rounders’ because our youngsters are simply not what I interpret as being 'all - rounders'!

The one – day version of the game however merits a different strategy IMHO.

I find myhself asking the same question as AG

Or is Alf injured? Or just being ignored?

Obviously he is 'being ignored'

Why did Arul not bowl 8 overs? The game is going crazy. Our bowling attack is a shambles, but tbh we looked vulnerable last week.

Prior to today, Greg Smith had achieved a strike rate of 66 in 21 previous List A matches.

Cobb is a very good one-day player but there's no way we'd have been expecting this from Smith.

Marcus, your tactics need changing, with quicker reactions.

You come on the beach and we'll play cricket.

I wonder when the last time was that Pete and Alf bowled 4 overs between them in a (near) 40 over innings?

In the dog-house for the bowling in the power-play?

I find myself baffled. I couldn't see Jos in earlier the way the game went but I agree that he should be down at 4 regardless. The figures show Pete and Alf bowling 2 bad overs each. No recall? If they are not injured then we might as well not pick Alf at all, if hes's not going to bowl after 2 bad overs


Edited for abominable typing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:26:19:33:32 by geordie moonraker.

Sound like an exciting game, though being unable to defend such a large score does worry me.
Oh well, off to find a dog, my left foot is very twitchy at the moment.

Yeah, I mean the figures don't necessarily suggest that Kirby and Meschede were proving tough to get away but they were the ones that got most of the bowling at the end.

Yes after winning two of our games by an average of 7 wickets and the third by 131 runs while scoring 1002 runs in 4 games we really do need to completely rethink our one day tactics because our bowlers bowled like mares in this game.

And of course it is all Marcus Trescothick's fault after he and Pete have averaged 106 in their first wicket partnerships over the four games

Makes you wonder how he can hold his head up in polite society doesn't it?

Oh dear oh dear. Another candidate for the award for 'most incompetent performance of the season so far', of which sadly there are already too many, considering it's only May.


Do we have the people in charge to turn things around?

Well either we have or you can tell us all what to do at the end of the season to solve all these many incompetence's you see.

I don't know.

I also don't know how many of them have been through something like this before?

When we were last extremely poor, in 2006, Marcus was away with 'Team England.'

Not sure if Andy Hurry was here then?

Don't know if Dave Nosworthy has previously faced this sort of situation in his career?

Perhaps we should bring in Brian Rose to consult on a 'mess in Somerset,' as he had to work out how to turn it around back in 2006....

We've been this bad in terms of bowling before. We've been beaten with a score over 300 before. We'll be beaten in these kinds of games again.

Perssonally I'm not joining in the mass hand-wringing over this one. Wasn't there to watch but sounds like Cobb did his best Gayle impersonation. Sometimes another team will play well and chase down a big total. After all, the Leicestershire bowlers hardly covered themselves in economical glory either.

The championship on the other (well wrung) hand....

I'm with you Bag

I wouldn't normally be that worried about a Pro 40 loss. But it's because it's come on the heels of 3 successive inadequate CC performances that it has resonated for me.

Yes the deep dark hole of your depression just gets deeper and deeper. Share your worries with us all my son


.
Oh.. you're already doing that aren't ya.

On to Tuesday.

If Dave N doesn't pick George for Tuesday (assuming he's available) then to paraphrase Basil Fawlty;

'I shall come to Taunton and insert a large garden gnome in him.'

If this had been a match where, asy, we'd struggled to make 220 and they'd knocked em off with nine wickets and ten overs in hand, or they'd batted forst made 340 and we'd been all out 200 then I'd be fed up. This was a close match. Unless we let them off the hook by, say, dropping lots of catches, then it was one of those matches. We've done little damage to our NRR as match was close. We may have dropped to 2nd in the table but we have a game in hand.

Our batters played with a confidence and freedom not seen this month in the CC. Lets hope a little of it shines through this week against Yorkshire.

And that will make everything all better.... Hope he does consider George but he needs to do a bit more than that.

I'll take the batting from today. George will strengthen the bowling but there's something more than all that needed and I want to see it next week.

We need to win against Glamorgan next Sunday otherwise we will drop down the table.

Come on, admit it everyone. There's now a little bit of you secretly hoping Dave N doesn't pick George against Yorkshire!

If he reads this message board he will now definitely select George.

People can take umbrage or feel personally affronted by criticism of our beloved county if they wish.

Fact is..having been bowled out for 70 in a Championship match, we've followed it up by failing to defend 320 odd in a 40 over game.

Something is wrong.

I don't profess to know exactly what, or who to blame, or how to change it. I'm a supporter, not a paid employee. I just want my old Somerset back and for us to start playing well again.

But hiding heads in the sand, pretending things are rosy (no pun intended)and thinking it'll just be alright in the end doesn't seem much of a solution right now.

Grockle you really can be quite obnoxious to some of your fellow contributors. Perhaps you should count to 10 and see if you can put your point across politely.

We don't seem to have a bowling plan at the moment and it's very worrying, but despite all this, most posters have been civil with one another.

Is this now a slag the poster forum? And the cricket irrelevant? Rosey was asked to sort out a welsh cricket
Mess at the start if the season why not the same down the south west. He did it once before!! Move over mr nos your tweets up!!

Just back from Grace Road.
Superb batting performance, but we really should have been able to defend 323.
Some poor bowling, but in my view some very odd captaincy decisions.
1.I was a little surprised to see PT open the bowling, after his hundred, but even more so not to see him replaced by Alfonso after 4 overs who surely with his experience is the "go-to bowler" after a difficult start. Sadly the faster Steve K and Jove bowled in their first spell the further they got hit.
2.Arul was the best bowler because he took pace off the ball, but Why was did he not bowl his full number of overs.
3.Why, when we had a slight sniff after 34 overs did Steve K come back rather than Alfonso or PT?
4 Surely on a difficult day for bowling AT and PT should have bowled more than 2 overs each.
I am afraid that I am starting to lose confidence in Marcus's decision making.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:26:22:26:05 by Tops.

Just back from a 300 mile trip to Grace Road.

Lovely sunny day, very unimpressed with the ground, no real character, very few stands of substance, crowd was 600/700 max, of which Somerset must have had 150/200 i'd guess.
As for the cricket.....
-Our batting was superb, great start yet again by Tres and Tregs, Treg was excellent, Arul and Alviro both did good job and Jos was just Jos, awesome.
-Our bowling, where to start, it was worst I have ever seen, yes Cobb and Smith played well but we helped as much as we could, short, wide, no balls, wides, free hits, long hops, leg side rubbish, we did the works. Any bowker can get hit but 235-0 off 24 was sustained misery.
Also some comical shoddy ground fielding, lack of backing up well, overthrows etc etc.
As bad as we were once we got a wicket we started to look ok, it just took too long, I think if we'd have got their wobble at 180ish rather than 235 it could have been different.
And Alfie walked off after bowling 2 overs so am assuming an injury of some sorts.
I don't know where things go from here, we are in a rut and need something to change.
I do not wish to start rumours but I am hearing a few things that Mr Nosworthy and Mr Hurry are perhaps not getting on like a house on fire, no idea if there is any substance in such suggestions, and even if so if it has any bearings on current team performance.

Anyway, on to Tuesday and lets try again then, we only have the 13/14/15 players we have so we need to back them and hope things change quickly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:26:22:45:11 by wsm fan.

I'm afraid our captaincy is shambolic and time and time again our bowling is wayward, making impossible to set fields to.

Why not try James Hildreth, taking the pace off the ball. It's not rocket science and we deserve better.

I forgot to say, last week, Middx were using a ftm very effectively.

Nosworthy and hurry are doing the same job. Both coaches. We don't have a DOC IMO. And we lost and Alf us injured. That's just great then!!

Thanks, wsm, I assumed there was a strong chance Alf had some sort of injury.

Would be a huge blow for Tuesday.

Disappointing to hear that the fielding was so shoddy.

I agree with Ronnie that, on the surface, DN and AH would seem to be doing very similar jobs as DN is more hands-on coach than off-field supremo a la Rose.

We need a Langer back here, not Mystic Megg.

Agree with that. All the good work
He did at Somerset had been wasted IMO.

I do worry about Mr N's twitter postings, it all seems a bit fluffy and managent lingo.

If we were rubbish I want him to tell us, and want to think that he is telling the players what he thinks and what he expects.

These waffle lines about trying hard, it'll come good, someone will be on the end of a tonking from us soon to me are just words fobbing us off.

Todays bowling was awful, I am 100% we didn't try to bowl like that, but it has to be made clear it want good enough. We don't want to scare our bowlers in to fearing a rollicking every time they bowl if it goes wrong, but at same time there has to be some form of accountability or criticism of such a bowling to display.
To try and brush it away as a bad day is in some ways condoning it and saying it's acceptable.

We have built expectations, in particular in 1 day cricket up to a level where we expect to win pretty much every game, and rightly so with our line up.
But as we saw last year in this 3 groups of 7 format you can only afford to lose 2 or 3 games or you will not qualify so you do have to be looking to win 9 games out of 12 i'd say.

I like your posts wsm you always hit the nail for me but us it a case of this team being a bit on the wane and everyone else improving squads and also improving. We have gone back never mind stayed still!!

At least Compton will be back for our bowling soon, it might turn this season around.

Well Botham - please identify;

a) where I have been 'obnoxious'
b) the events that have made our captaincy 'shambolic'

Using big words to insult people doesn't necessarily make the statements true.

I'm not sure how stating the facts from Cricket Archive is 'obnoxious' and I'm still not sure you have the argument to back up your constant attacks on Marcus Trescothick.

If you took your blinkers off you'd notice this is a two sided argument and I'm not the only one involved in it but I assume you are still harping on about last week's moderation and therefore looking for the chance to insult and carp.

Debate needs fact old man and an opinion from them... just saying things you think might be popular doesn't always achieve the aim I'm afraid.

How can a side win three matches out of four by significant wicket or run margins but not be able to set fields to its bowling?

Ron is quite right, the heat of debate does not open the door for your kind of post so please bring some factual backup for your comments and be prepared to discuss your generalisations with more than petty complaints against specific people when someone puts the facts you ignore in front of you.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:06:07:23 by Grockle.

As Bagpuss quite realistically put it, this one day game was hopefully not a spread of the 'disease' affecting our four day form (in fact it does not have many of the same symptoms as that seems to be batting related rather than bowling).

Criticism of our 'beloved county' should be coming thick and fast because there is quite obviously something wrong and possibly deeply wrong within the team and possibly the organisation around the team. But positive alternatives need to accompany the scathing criticism of everything from the top man to the office cat please.

And seriously, calls for a Langer? Rosey? Some of them coming from people who were almost as vitriolic about getting rid of them between 3 years and less than 12 months ago? Let's keep the panic down to a minimum and the outlandish stuff bottled up for Facebook (you wanna read some of the stuff on there)!!

Mr Nosworthy does not do himself any favours with his Tweeting but if you've been doing it for a while it is difficult to stop. However we ought to start to feel his presence this month if he is a man looking to do a serious job of work I would think. There are serious weaknesses, either technically or mentally and they have to start moving in the right direction soon. He's the 'new broom' but will he sweep in that right direction?

The point about Andy and DN both being coaches is a good one. Demarcation has to be set up or a redefinition of the DoC job has to take place or Andy may be looking elsewhere.

Are there criticisms of Andy as a coach? His media manner may be cliched but other than "he never played first class cricket" I haven't read an awful lot of bad stuff about him and his methods.

Captain Trescothick?
Is he to blame for this? Some seem keen to lay the blame at his feet. Blaming a tradesman for the quality of his materials comes to mind.

Is it more that he doesn't seem to have an answer to a crisis? I'd certainly personally take that view and he has to some extent admitted it himself. MT has never been a one day captain for me for example - but neither was Justin Langer. I don't as much question his toss decisions as his decisions on the pitch at times.

Does he have the right character? I would expect him to certainly be respected by the men in the dressing room as a player but I am not so sure he would be capable of divorcing himself from that dressing room when extremely difficult decisions have to be made. Is he a Langer or a Close? Nope. Do we need one? Maybe and maybe we just need an 'officer not made up from the ranks'. Marcus Trescothick does not strike me as a "Richard Sharpe" for those who know the reference.

But what are the alternatives? James shows me no more steel than Marcus (though I'm going by what I see on the pitch).

Pete shows steel but is struggling to maintain position.

Nick is a 'cold fish' IMHO and too intense in relation to his own job to be opened up as an effective team and man manager.

Craig K? Too young and impulsive.

Change now? Isn't that just putting out a fire with gasoline (thank you Bowie)? Isn't it a gut reaction to a problem we haven't identified and we hope can be solved by throwing stuff at it?

This is a multi-faceted problem, it might even be an institutionalised one. The people involved may be too close to see it. Dave Nosworthy was one attempted solution to this. But we seem to keep talking as if the players should be expecting something to be done FOR them to turn this around and they have no blame themselves.

This is, at its heart, a problem of eleven men on a field of play. Things are not working and whatever the central authorities are doing about it is just 'fluff' unless the men on the field start to take hold of the situation.

The present position faces the men picked to play for Somerset on Tuesday. Each one of them has to look inside themselves for solutions, motivation and the reasons to commit. Each one of them has to look around them at the other people in this position and decide they are a unit, whatever the faults. That unit has to operate as a unit and put into practice the things that have made them all individual winners and professional sportsmen.

Support, team spirit, co-operation, dying for the badge, professional pride, back to basics, technical proficiency whatever name they want to use, it has to start taking over. If the men on the field are panicking anything like as much as the people posting here then Somerset are gone for 2013.

This is a time for cool and solid determination to improve from the office cat up to the boss at the top.

"Befuddled thinking and gross negativity will lead to self fullfilling prophecies". There's a tweet for you Dave





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:10:06:12 by Grockle.

Very thoughtful, Grocks. Overall I agree with what I think is the general thrust of the post: there is a leadership problem that the present team (DN, AH, MT) are not addressing well. This contrasts with the views on the main site that it is down to injuries; that they got it wrong; that the players simply have to step up. DN, AH and now GL have all written pieces recently but I couldn't find anything very positive, or indeed hints thereof, in what they have said. Too harsh a judgement of the leaders? Well see if you can find fledging answers in what has been said or written.

I think that the current challenge is for the leadership team to step up. They have to perform better, take things in hand Prescribing solutions from the outside at this stage is premature, but that will not last for ever.

After the horrendous 2006 season, we became a very competitive team under Brian Rose and he obviously deserves credit for that, as do Hurry, Langer, Tres and the players.

But those members of the brains trust that were still here over the past couple of years (all bar Langer) also have to take their share of the blame for the present situation, in addition to whatever blame DN deserves.

Very simply, the club for whatever reason or reasons has been unable and or unwilling to add to the club's batting resources, apart from with AP as an overseas locum. We've left a situation where we are reliant entirely on unproven youngsters as reserves in the batting department. Moreover, based on production in the middle there have been NO signs that I have seen that these youngsters are improving and getting closer to first-class standard.

So we've no meaningful competition for batting places and anytime a first-choice batsman is away there's always a calamitous drop-off in performance between first-choice and reserve.

And now here we find ourselves where first-choice men have lost form and zero meaningful options to do anything much about it.

The club's attitude seems to have been 'we'll only sign someone or try to sign someone if we think they are good enough to go straight into our first-team e.g. RHB.

The idea of signing anyone with any experience as a reserve seems to have become anathema to the club. That would be fine if the young batsmen that currently serve as reserves were developing but where, pray, are these signs of improvement? Barrow and Gregory barely managed to do anything at second XI level last season.

And I think the reality is that the vast majority of young players that are going to be something show clear signs of that ability and potential (demonstrated through production) very early on in their careers - usually within their first 10 or 12 matches or so.

After his 4th match, Tres had a great run for example. Hildreth impressed early. Lathwell - and now, more recently, Craig K, George and now Jamie Overton.

It stretches credulity, for me, to believe that guys who average in the teens over 15 or so games are going to suddenly become guys that can be counted on at first-team level or even as capable reserves.

I'm certainly not saying there is a failing through lack of effort to find the reason or come up with a solution Casomer.

No player wants to fail and in a number of cases if they didn't like the setup/location etc they would have moved on to better themselves many a moon ago. One of the most perplexing aspects of all of this is the number of internationals who love the setup and the game played as it is here!! We hear the rumours and all that but we don't read the player expose from guys who have played here and want to dish the dirt

I would imagine MT ponders after every game about how to get better. The things coming out of the camp smack of determination and commitment to solving the problems ... and yet they continue, consistency still eludes the side, pressure gets to them in the same way it did before, the same technical issues are seen in game after games over season after season.

Sarge and his backroom boys are also committed to getting fitness levels higher than ever before, increasing commitment and work levels, dealing with injury and making it enjoyable while hard and yet results waft between impressive and dire.

You get the impression that they are as perplexed by it all as many of us are. I would not want Dave Nosworthy's job at this moment in time.

Well done to Leicester yesterday, anybody chasing that total deserves to win.

However I still personally feel, we have an ongoing bowling issue, we scored 300 plus plus yesterday, even if our fielding had a slight off day, we should have been able to defend that score.The bowlers are giving away far to many extra's and are generally not be tight enough.

How things might have been had we got the last wicket against Warwickshire we will never know....but...if..

At the very least, the pressure would be less Roger because we'd be further up the table.

I still believe we were insufficiently positive with the bat on the morning of day three. Tres, himself, showed the way that a team should bat when they have a huge first-innings lead on that second evening but the rest either failed to take their cue from him or were instructed to instead occupy the crease.

I have been as disappointed as everyone else this season. And it is very likely that the management are feeling worse than that.

IMO there is a danger (not only in cricket) to allow "experts" to complicate and fill heads with convoluted solutions, for perhaps professional reasons to "prove" their expertise. The current fashion on Twitter could be seen as an ideal platform to expound those short crisp theories.

When one looks at some of the most successful "coaches" (Clough, Ferguson, now Gus Fraser? and Michael Robinson?, etc) the message appears to me to be invariably keep it simple. With a few honorable exceptions, successful batting involves keeping it simple by always watching the ball and getting into line. Later in an innings other matters will come into it. In bowling the simple logic is that as a bowler you are trying to bowl a basic ball to which the batsman is unsure whether to go forward or back - in other words a good length. The same thoughts also go into fielding and other skills.

In general, I still think most of our batting has been OK, and it is the bowling which has gone off the rails, with what would appear to be some preconceived ideas on the type of bowling to be used. Frankly I don't think anybody should be trying to "teach" the experienced bowlers anything - if they can't work things out, then there is little hope for them. My concern is that the younger bowlers should be encouraged to keep it simple, and practice and practice, AND given time in the middle to hone their skills. A prime example is MAX, who, it appears has not really improved his bowling since I first saw him. I believe he looked best when he was bowling quicker BUT needs to make a deliberate pause before delivering each ball. He rushes every over for no apparent reward. IMO of course.

Thats todays lesson over children!! Now get on with it!!

Excellent posting at 5.57 grockle. I hope the players are and will be doing as you suggest there. It needs that and quickly!!

One does worry/wonder if the coaches have tried to change too much, too quickly this season?

And yet DN has been saying that he's still in the spongeing phase -- which would suggest that he's not actively been trying to change very much.

One assumes that DN was brought in by Nash and Lavender and co and told 'there's not much wrong, we just need fine-tuning. If he took that sort of thing on board and has been letting the show more or less run itself then he must now be flabbergasted and how comprehensively we've been de-railed?

Perhaps the issue is the psyche of the SCCC batsmen.... Perhaps many of them are of the type that need to feel very secure and maybe they felt secure in what had been a settled SCCC regime?

Then Brian Rose goes and a new boss comes in and they start to feel under pressure as they feel the new man will want to bring his 'own,' players in for next season ?

Old Boy - Max does rush. I would think it's down to nerves.

This season AG - based on what evidence? Which coaches? Which players? Someone mentions coaching and they've suddenly done something too quickly in 2013? Where and when?

I said I wonder, Grockle. That doesn't require some sort of proof.

Most people with inquiring minds will be wondering about all-sorts connected to this club based on the 'evidence,' of a side that apparently cannot bat in first-class cricket, all of a sudden.

And we've also had reports of shoddy bowling too (from Old Boy at Horsham and now from wsm at Grace Road).

One equally wonders whether DN was convinced by others that he was taking over some sort of well-oiled machine and has been insufficiently pro-active as a result.

There isn't 'evidence,' for anything other than that the team is playing very, very bad CC cricket - the worst since 2006 - and we are all wondering what is wrong.

I'm sure you have your own theories and probably have no 'evidence,' for them either;

Sorry: my computer is very slow this morning or maybe it is me. Anyway I've deleted the posting that was here because it was incomplete.

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:11:34:06 by Loyal of Lhasa..

Quote:

Naxxar
People can take umbrage or feel personally affronted by criticism of our beloved county if they wish.
...

I don't profess to know exactly what, or who to blame, or how to change it. I..'m a supporter, not a paid employee. I just want my old Somerset back and for us to start playing well again.

But hiding heads in the sand, pretending things are rosy (no pun intended)and thinking it'll just be alright in the end doesn't seem much of a solution right now.

I can't object to any of the above, Naxxar, but would just like to mention that as a long-term supporter I have no responsibility for providing solutions. I prefer to concentrate on unequivocal support, even if some of it is a bit unrealistic.

As for yesterday... paradoxically, I think we might have fared better had we scored fewer runs (not that I would ever advocate deliberately avoiding scoring opportunities). The Leicestershire openers knew they would have to score at breakneck speed from the outset and on doing so found that it was working rather well. Had they had a smaller target, they might have started more cautiously and thus not seized the initiative so early in their innings.

And as for where Buttler bats... Like Pietersen he is clearly the best batsman in the (one-day) side. Would KP ever be expected to bat lower than four?

Hows that for Jesuitical sophistry on a bank holiday!

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:11:35:31 by Loyal of Lhasa..

I think it is less a matter of effort, more a matter of taking responsibility.

I was saying the same thing yesterday.
It sounds crazy but we scored too many runs!
Chasing 324 they had no option but to go like a train from the start.
Chasing 270/280 they would not have started at that speed.
As it was they played a lot of shots, all of which came off and didn't really give us a chance.
We bowled worse and worse the more they came at us so they just kept on and on and on for 24 overs of absolute carnage.
Losing Alfie clearly didn't help and he did not have 1 bowler who could gain any slight control, Arul looked ok but they were happy to milk him for 5-6 an over with no risk what so ever, whilst smashing anything of pace all around the ground.

Sorry, wsm, if I have seemingly stolen an idea you had already expressed. That was not intentional, my excuse being that so many posts had accumulated since the close of play yesterday that I simply did not read them all.

But I did (as I usually do) read what Bagpuss had to say and (as I usually do) agreed with her.

Seems I shall have to read everything wsm posts as well...

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

No need to apologise, I meant I had said it to my friend as we walked away from the game somewhat upset at the carnage we had just witnessed!

Pretty sure, LoL, that wsm meant he was sat at the ground saying that - something you could not possibly have been expected to know!

You wonder about a number of things AG.

Unfortunately once you've wondered about them they seem to become aspects of the problem within a few posts so the question was just to keep you wondering rather than turning this into something you think is concrete.

Poor performance is not always the end result of coaching and as far as I know we haven't seen anything fundamentally altering in any players action, batting stance or whatever.

I'm sure the coaches are working with players. One would hope that work is on the basics. I doubt when things go wrong the initial reaction of a coach is to quickly change things a batsman or bowler does. If they are worth anything that is a long term and well planned out aspect of their job.

Unless our bowlers are seriously not that bright (which i don't believe) then the bowling issues yesterday have to be ability and execution.

Our bowlers can not run in intending to bowl short long hops, leg side half volleys, wides etc, that isn't their intention when running in, so the issue has to be their ability to do what they are aiming to do.

The coaches/captain are not telling them to run in and bowl rubbish, there must be plans in place, the bowlers are just not currently doing what they are supposed to be doing.

I myself am no cricketer, i could run in to bowl 6 deliveries on the top of off stump, but i know full well at least 5 would go somewhere else as i do not have the ability to do what i'd be aiming to do.

WSM: you were clearly a demon at deceiving the batsmen, so successful were you at deceiving yourself.

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

The man of genius inspires us with a boundless confidence in our own powers.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

John Dawes, Carwyn James. Are they who you had in mind, BJ?

More Charles Hawtrey, Bobs.

Interesting thought! Unicorns about to try to defend about 250 against Leicester. Can I suggest that if they succeed, we sign all their bowlers en bloc!!

I saw that.

I'm not sure Naxxar would be up for that

Keep an eye on the Leicester v Unicorns match

Cobb and Thakor, arguably their two best one-day batsmen, are still there. Remove one and Unicorns could win, which would suit us well.

Cobb has scored 322 in three inning in the tournament so far, with power to add.

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Cobb two 6's in two balls. 100no

3 innings: 3 x 100. Watch out Hales.

LoL

Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Yep, watch out Hales. Nottinghamshire are probably already lining up a bid to tempt Cobb from Leicestershire into the Trent Bridge opening spot!

Their RR shouldn't improve by much.