Somerset
Time to Turn the Tide Derby CC1
Welcome back to four day!
By Grockle et al
June 21 2013
OK gentlemen! It's time to stop the play acting and get into CC1 mode. Derbyshire at Derby is the fiixture where Somerset need to get their Championship performance on the road towards the top half of the division rather than lingering in the rear. This season has been an umitigated disaster so far in the long format and with weather the way it is, we need points of significance to take us into the second half of the campaign.
v Derbyshire CC1 @ Derby Friday 21st June 20113
Wes Durston and Mark Turner will be welcoming their former team mates to Derby today while hoping to face the "Somerset" that have played their Championship games like a bunch of amateurs during the first half of the 2013 season. Marcus has said on the official site that the county need to start winning and I think we'd all agree with that.
The squad for today's game does not include Alviro Petersen though he is back in Taunton after the SA defeat to England in the Champions League semi final. The squad named for today's game is;
Trescothick, Compton, Dockrell, Barrow, Elgar, Hildreth, Kieswetter, Kirby, Meschede, Overton, Thomas, Trego
The questions stemming from this list are;
Who willl open with the skipper - probably the other England opener Nick Compton
Who will take the wicket-keeper gloves - probably Craig Kieswetter it is time to get back in the harness as in all other ways he seems fit to play. However, I don't think many will worry if Alex Barrow continues as it seems to have given the man a boost of confidence and his batting has certainly gained as he has more than adequately covered for both our England wickies. Unfortunately, if CK takes the gloves AB may be the player who misses out after the other Craig's performance with the ball in the oone dayer against Leicestershire.
Is George Dockrell in good enough form to keep Jack Leach out of the spinners spot? The Irishman seems to be suffering from a loss of form and the wicket may very well have some advantages for the homeside spin outfit given the poor form of their pace attack.
Will Dean Elgar play or will Alviro slot back in. If so... thanks Dean for the little cameo and we must hope for an AP in the early April form to take us over the wiin line in this one.
Who will miss out? Well it's Alex or Craig M who have both shown enough to be seriously considered. Barrow offers support to Kieswetter if the finger is still a problem but Craig M gives somethhing with bat and ball, though he has yet to convince that his bowling prowess is of the four day variety... can't so that unless he plays of course.
Both Somerset and Derbyshire need bigpoints from this one. It could be a decider should neither side have a particularly successful second half of the season. Someone posted that this is a 'football six pointer'. We have to be on the right end of that or July and August could be extended squeeky bum time. Somerset need confidence that the tide has turned before the T20 break. This is a side seriously under performing and the tide MUST turn in the LVC.
If Somerset cannot show what should be a significant difference in class against a struggling, newly promoted side then it indicates deep seated problems and increasing headaches for the still new Director of Cricket David Nosworthy. It's time to turn press comments into reality and start to move back to First Division Championship form away from the mediocre and sometimes unexplainable rubbish we've been party to so far.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 21/06/2013 10:04
Grockles.com
21/06/2013 10:04
21/06/2013 10:04
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:25:10:19:05 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:25:10:19:05 by Grockle.
They certainly need to get their act together.
You only have to look at the poll for player of the month for May, nine different players have been voted for, it shows that nobody has performed outstandingly ahead of the rest.
You only have to look at the poll for player of the month for May, nine different players have been voted for, it shows that nobody has performed outstandingly ahead of the rest.
ME Trescothick*, NRD Compton, D Elgar, JC Hildreth, C Kieswetter, AWR Barrow†, PD Trego, CAJ Meschede, AC Thomas, J Overton, SP Kirby
Please forgive the early appearance of this one, Grockle.
I have two justifications for it - firstly it might be the next time a SCCC cricketer strides out to the middle. Secondly, this is, arguably, one of the more important Somerset matches of recent years.
Arguably this is a 'must win', if we want to turn our season around - especially as we don't play either Derbys or Surrey again until right at the end of the season.
So...team selection:
If Craig K's thumb is deemed worth the risk of him keeping then arguably the biggest selection dilemma may, potentially, be over Alex Barrow?
My view, on balance, would be that he should play, chiefly on the grounds that he deserves reward for what he did in the last match and that, as a club, we should be wanting to see if he can immediately build on it.
The counter-argument would run that this is a very important match and we need the strongest XI possible on the park for it. Plus, in terms of Alex building momentum, the fact is that T20 crashes into the schedule after Derby anyway so even if Alex does well at Derby there's no guarantee he'd be in good form when the CC resumes.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:17:21:10:26 by Grockle.
I have two justifications for it - firstly it might be the next time a SCCC cricketer strides out to the middle. Secondly, this is, arguably, one of the more important Somerset matches of recent years.
Arguably this is a 'must win', if we want to turn our season around - especially as we don't play either Derbys or Surrey again until right at the end of the season.
So...team selection:
If Craig K's thumb is deemed worth the risk of him keeping then arguably the biggest selection dilemma may, potentially, be over Alex Barrow?
My view, on balance, would be that he should play, chiefly on the grounds that he deserves reward for what he did in the last match and that, as a club, we should be wanting to see if he can immediately build on it.
The counter-argument would run that this is a very important match and we need the strongest XI possible on the park for it. Plus, in terms of Alex building momentum, the fact is that T20 crashes into the schedule after Derby anyway so even if Alex does well at Derby there's no guarantee he'd be in good form when the CC resumes.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:17:21:10:26 by Grockle.
By my reckoning the list of players potentially available that may be worth considering for this one include;
Tres
Compton
Arul
Chris Jones
Elgar OR Petersen
Hildreth
Kieswetter
Barrow
Trego
Meschede
Dockrell
Leach
Alf
Kirby
Jamie Overton
So I make that 15 guys (if you count DE and AP as one guy).
Derby seems to me to have been a decent batting track in recent times. BUT will Derbyshire, desperate for a win, be tempted to try to produce a result track?
Specific selection issues to ponder...I'll admit that, sadly, George does not appear to be in great form. Might Jack Leach come in for him?
Jamie Overton has been successful at Taunton, far less successful away from home but in what is arguably a must-win game do we need his extra pace?
Here's the team that I think I would pick
Tres
Compton
Overseas player
Kieswetter
Hildreth
Barrow
Trego
Alf
J Overton
Leach
Kirby
The tail is a bit longer than is ideal but Pete's not been in wicket-taking form necessitating, I feel, the selections of all of Alf, Kirby and Jamie, in addition to Pete.
From the 15 listed, I've left out Arul, George, Craig M and Chris Jones.
Thoughts?
Tres
Compton
Arul
Chris Jones
Elgar OR Petersen
Hildreth
Kieswetter
Barrow
Trego
Meschede
Dockrell
Leach
Alf
Kirby
Jamie Overton
So I make that 15 guys (if you count DE and AP as one guy).
Derby seems to me to have been a decent batting track in recent times. BUT will Derbyshire, desperate for a win, be tempted to try to produce a result track?
Specific selection issues to ponder...I'll admit that, sadly, George does not appear to be in great form. Might Jack Leach come in for him?
Jamie Overton has been successful at Taunton, far less successful away from home but in what is arguably a must-win game do we need his extra pace?
Here's the team that I think I would pick
Tres
Compton
Overseas player
Kieswetter
Hildreth
Barrow
Trego
Alf
J Overton
Leach
Kirby
The tail is a bit longer than is ideal but Pete's not been in wicket-taking form necessitating, I feel, the selections of all of Alf, Kirby and Jamie, in addition to Pete.
From the 15 listed, I've left out Arul, George, Craig M and Chris Jones.
Thoughts?
Rain in Cardiff should eliminate England tomorrow....does that mean that Jos could be available for Derby?
I assume there are some ODIs vs Aus coming up but not (obviously) until after the CT is finished.
I assume there are some ODIs vs Aus coming up but not (obviously) until after the CT is finished.
Apparently there are no imminent ODIs vs Aus, just two T20s vs NZ.
So looks like Jos is likely to be available for most/all of our T20 campaign.
First T20 starts the day after Derby is scheduled to finish, though, so doubt Jos will be allowed to play at Derby.
So looks like Jos is likely to be available for most/all of our T20 campaign.
First T20 starts the day after Derby is scheduled to finish, though, so doubt Jos will be allowed to play at Derby.
There are two 20/20s against New Zealand coming up at The Oval almost right away, so it is highly unlikely that Jos will be released by England.
Don't see why not. He's hardly in the most scintillating form at the moment.
No chance of Jos playing at Derby i'm very sure.
I shall be in attendance for the first 3 days (on hope it lasts that long!) to monitor proceedings.
It is most definitely a must not lose and in all likeliness a must win.
We have to win 3 games at least I think from last 8.
Given the likelihood of at least 2 or 3 matches being rain/weather effected, we have to take any chance we get to win.
On paper the 2 games v Derby and home one to Surrey appear the best chances.
Bottom 3 I predict after the close of play today will be as follows, not great viewing I'm sad to say
7 - Surrey, played 8, points 60
8 - Somerset, played 8, points 52
9 - Derbys, played 7, points 39
Still 192 points to play for so far from over but starting to look grim the longer we go without anything in that win column.....
I shall be in attendance for the first 3 days (on hope it lasts that long!) to monitor proceedings.
It is most definitely a must not lose and in all likeliness a must win.
We have to win 3 games at least I think from last 8.
Given the likelihood of at least 2 or 3 matches being rain/weather effected, we have to take any chance we get to win.
On paper the 2 games v Derby and home one to Surrey appear the best chances.
Bottom 3 I predict after the close of play today will be as follows, not great viewing I'm sad to say
7 - Surrey, played 8, points 60
8 - Somerset, played 8, points 52
9 - Derbys, played 7, points 39
Still 192 points to play for so far from over but starting to look grim the longer we go without anything in that win column.....
No rain forecast all week for Derby in the run-up to the match starting on Friday so Derbys could get the opportunity to produce a really dry surface should they want to.
Rain forecast for Thursday, Friday looks ok. Not being a groundsman myself I haven't a clue how this will affect
pitch preparation.
pitch preparation.
Reading the excellent Derbys blog from Peakfan he is suggesting that Derbys will play 4 seamers relying on Wes D to provide the spin. Cannot imagine that this suggests a dry pitch.
As for our side I agree with much that AGod suggests. I think that the top 7 is fixed, MT, NC, CK, DE, JH, AB, PT, with Alex keeping unless we are certain that Craig has 100% recovered. As for the bowling, GD has been a little disappointing and I would give Leach another match. As for the seamers Jove must play; he is our one bowler who can hurry batsmen and can rest next week v the Australians, if needed. Alfonso has the best figures this season in county championship cricket, while the last place is between Steve K and Craig M depending on whether it is felt that Craig can convert his white ball bowling to 4 day cricket. A difficult dilemma.
As for our side I agree with much that AGod suggests. I think that the top 7 is fixed, MT, NC, CK, DE, JH, AB, PT, with Alex keeping unless we are certain that Craig has 100% recovered. As for the bowling, GD has been a little disappointing and I would give Leach another match. As for the seamers Jove must play; he is our one bowler who can hurry batsmen and can rest next week v the Australians, if needed. Alfonso has the best figures this season in county championship cricket, while the last place is between Steve K and Craig M depending on whether it is felt that Craig can convert his white ball bowling to 4 day cricket. A difficult dilemma.
On the bowling front whoever else we choose, Meschede IMO should be there. Everytime I see him bowl I am impressed with his accuracy and control, which, of course is why he takes wickets!
Also if England beat SA will AP be available,Especially if not playing for them.
If both of these are OK I would have AP and Meschede in for Barrow and Elgar
If both of these are OK I would have AP and Meschede in for Barrow and Elgar
It's arguable that having Craig M in for Barrow might be a stronger, XI, Nellie C.
However, Barrow's been around for a few seasons now and now - right now, in view of the fact he's just made 83 when more senior/celebrated players largely failed us - would seem to be his best chance of going on to more consistent success?
I also think it would, arguably, send the wrong message to our aspiring players, to drop a man who has just made his best score.
If your preference that you mention in your post is about changes compared to the most recent match then, surely, Arul Suppiah is a big candidate to miss out instead of Barrow?
You could have AP for DE and CM for Arul with Barrow retained?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:18:12:55:12 by AGod.
However, Barrow's been around for a few seasons now and now - right now, in view of the fact he's just made 83 when more senior/celebrated players largely failed us - would seem to be his best chance of going on to more consistent success?
I also think it would, arguably, send the wrong message to our aspiring players, to drop a man who has just made his best score.
If your preference that you mention in your post is about changes compared to the most recent match then, surely, Arul Suppiah is a big candidate to miss out instead of Barrow?
You could have AP for DE and CM for Arul with Barrow retained?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:18:12:55:12 by AGod.
I think Alex Barrow deserves another chance afer stepping up so well with the gloves and posting a personal best.
It would also give some insurance if Craig's hand started to suffer during the match.
It would also give some insurance if Craig's hand started to suffer during the match.
Whilst I like Tops team above, and echo sentiments about Barrow's inclusion, i think the problem is that Pete is looking more like a 4th seamer this year and Craig M, for all his CB40 success has yet to prove he can be considered a front line CC bowler. This is as close to a must win game as we are likely to get and we will probably need to take 20 wickets to do that. I think we need Jove, Kirbs, Alf and Dockers/Leach spearheading our attack and that means Craig & Tregs battling out the 4th seamer spot (unless the view is that conditions will not be spin friendly wherupon Elgar can fulfill that role and both of the above play.
I don't expect Craig Meschede will play as he's in the 2nds team today, although you never know.
I do hope the weather behaves as this is one we aught to win.
I do hope the weather behaves as this is one we aught to win.
Craig M batted at four today but did not score.
Economical figures but no wickets, either, at Radlett, which may support Railboy's point about penetration in first-class cricket.
Economical figures but no wickets, either, at Radlett, which may support Railboy's point about penetration in first-class cricket.
The first essential of any seam bowler is can he bowl straight and on a length consistently and for me CM does that - taking wickets is inevitable if he sticks to that formula, adding some variety in speed of delivery. If we had three or seamers doing that every match IMO we would be winning more than we lose.
I agree that he seems to bowl a decent line and length when I've seen him.
Maybe he was just unlucky today at Radlett but, in terms of penetration, the fact that Craig M got no wickets and Callum Stewart, whom I do not believe to be on the full-time staff, took seven wickets suggests that one arguably might need more than just line and length to take many wickets.
Having said that, Old Boy, line and length as a mode of attack for a team works best if all members of an attack adhere to it i.e by generating pressure. And as you've outlined in several posts this season our attack has possibly not done that very consistently this season.
Maybe he was just unlucky today at Radlett but, in terms of penetration, the fact that Craig M got no wickets and Callum Stewart, whom I do not believe to be on the full-time staff, took seven wickets suggests that one arguably might need more than just line and length to take many wickets.
Having said that, Old Boy, line and length as a mode of attack for a team works best if all members of an attack adhere to it i.e by generating pressure. And as you've outlined in several posts this season our attack has possibly not done that very consistently this season.
Quote:AGod
Having said that, Old Boy, line and length as a mode of attack for a team works best if all members of an attack adhere to it i.e by generating pressure. And as you've outlined in several posts this season our attack has possibly not done that very consistently this season.
I would not disagree with that AGod, but it does beggar the question as to how and why some of Somerset's squad are earning a comfortable living from the game, if they are clearly not up to it.
Furthermore, why cannot the coaches put them right on any perceived technical problems / difficulties / deficiencies which prevent them from achieving a basic facet of bowling on a consistently regular basis?
I have always believed that a top - class bowling coach is a prerequisite to any successful County side, so is that perhaps something that we are still lacking, even after the arrival of Mr. Nosworthy?
I don't know for sure, but I do wonder at times, as I am sure many do.
Our seam bowlers haven't delivered so far this season and that's why we're in the trouble we are.
The fact that Kirby will probably play despite poor figures shows how little competition there is. Hussain? Dibble?
Trego is an all rounder and it is unreasonable to run through sides. He's still one of the best genuine all rounders.
There is a bid difference between tacking wickets in four day cricket and one day cameos as Waller and meschede have discovered.
0n the other hand you can have a great bowling line up like Surrey: Linley, tremlett dernbach, Lewis etc but if you have a flat pitch and a heavy roller you'd need six days to win.
Looking at the averages though the omission of leach does appear criminal.
The fact that Kirby will probably play despite poor figures shows how little competition there is. Hussain? Dibble?
Trego is an all rounder and it is unreasonable to run through sides. He's still one of the best genuine all rounders.
There is a bid difference between tacking wickets in four day cricket and one day cameos as Waller and meschede have discovered.
0n the other hand you can have a great bowling line up like Surrey: Linley, tremlett dernbach, Lewis etc but if you have a flat pitch and a heavy roller you'd need six days to win.
Looking at the averages though the omission of leach does appear criminal.
2.5 days yet but forecast i am seeing for Friday & Saturday is grim/awful. Hope we get a few big gusts of wind before then otherwise our crunch "relegation battle" could be a damp non event.
However should there be some weather interuptions, i would suggest both teams are in such a position where a contrived last day would be something both teams would look for.
Usual reasons for not doing so is the fear of opposition getting the win points. Whilst i would not wish Derby to get 16 points, i would happily risk that happening if it gave us a 50/50 chance of the same 16 points on the last day.....
However should there be some weather interuptions, i would suggest both teams are in such a position where a contrived last day would be something both teams would look for.
Usual reasons for not doing so is the fear of opposition getting the win points. Whilst i would not wish Derby to get 16 points, i would happily risk that happening if it gave us a 50/50 chance of the same 16 points on the last day.....
KT - If we had the "great bowling line-up" of
Tremlett (when he's fit), Linley, Dernbach (are you serious?) and Lewis (when he's fit)
You'd be complaining about Dernbach's lack of line and length, the age of Lewis, the injury record of Tremlett and the lack of competition and young bowlers coming through the Surrey system.
If they are so much 'greater' why are they with us at the wrong end of the table?
I'd put Thomas, Kirby, Overton and Trego up against them and not feel outclassed
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:18:21:36:21 by Grockle.
Tremlett (when he's fit), Linley, Dernbach (are you serious?) and Lewis (when he's fit)
You'd be complaining about Dernbach's lack of line and length, the age of Lewis, the injury record of Tremlett and the lack of competition and young bowlers coming through the Surrey system.
If they are so much 'greater' why are they with us at the wrong end of the table?
I'd put Thomas, Kirby, Overton and Trego up against them and not feel outclassed
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:18:21:36:21 by Grockle.
Neither grockle!! If I had to rely on both at present I think I would pass on!!
Grockle, it was KT that made the post that you've ascribed to Old Boy.
WSM- I loathe contrived finishes that involve declaration bowling and such like but am so desperate for a win that I'd gladly take a win in that fashion.
WSM- I loathe contrived finishes that involve declaration bowling and such like but am so desperate for a win that I'd gladly take a win in that fashion.
Quote:Grockle
OB - If we had the "great bowling line-up" of
Tremlett (when he's fit), Linley, Dernbach (are you serious?) and Lewis (when he's fit)
You'd be complaining about Dernbach's lack of line and length, the age of Lewis, the injury record of Tremlett and the lack of competition and young bowlers coming through the Surrey system.
If they are so much 'greater' why are they with us at the wrong end of the table?
I'd put Thomas, Kirby, Overton and Trego up against them and not feel outclassed
So Grockle? What's your point? Unless you didn't mean to address me, I'm not what I can say, other than agree with you! Have I ever said Surrey were greater? If you are going back a few posts, I was suggesting that Surrey would be coming to pinch some of our good youngsters!
You've either got the wrong man or the wrong bottle!
Cheers anyway - glad to have you back!
Think you need to read above OB and look at the edit I've made because like you I post without checking the rest of the recent posts! Sorry sir.
As for KT's post about Surrey:
Tim Linley - is an okay seamer - certainly not great.
Jon Lewis - was a hugely effective seam and swing bowler in Div Two on green tracks at Bristol. He's done little or nothing at the Oval (I said at the time that I doubted the move would work as tracks not suited to him).
Jade "Dirtbag" Dernbach - Unfortunately, it cannot be denied that he did bowl well against Somerset at the Oval earlier this season. However, that was the first time I've seen him bowl anything like that. Perhaps he is improving in first-class cricket? (he certainly isn't in the short-stuff).
Chris Tremlett - Yep, if they can get him fully fit, motivated, get him full of confidence, he has the ability to be a match-winning bowler.
And there's also Stuart Meaker who wasn't mentioned who is dangerous when he gets his radar right as fast, can reverse swing it and bowl good Yorkers.
The new man taking over Surrey will be telling himself that if he can get both Tremlett and Meaker into form they have a chance of finally getting a win or two.
Tim Linley - is an okay seamer - certainly not great.
Jon Lewis - was a hugely effective seam and swing bowler in Div Two on green tracks at Bristol. He's done little or nothing at the Oval (I said at the time that I doubted the move would work as tracks not suited to him).
Jade "Dirtbag" Dernbach - Unfortunately, it cannot be denied that he did bowl well against Somerset at the Oval earlier this season. However, that was the first time I've seen him bowl anything like that. Perhaps he is improving in first-class cricket? (he certainly isn't in the short-stuff).
Chris Tremlett - Yep, if they can get him fully fit, motivated, get him full of confidence, he has the ability to be a match-winning bowler.
And there's also Stuart Meaker who wasn't mentioned who is dangerous when he gets his radar right as fast, can reverse swing it and bowl good Yorkers.
The new man taking over Surrey will be telling himself that if he can get both Tremlett and Meaker into form they have a chance of finally getting a win or two.
Forecast remains dodgy.
Forecast for Surrey's game is a little bit better, but not great.
I suspect that Derby is only sort of 50-60 miles or so away from Leeds, though, so their chances of predicting differences between the two grounds are probably slim until the day itself.
Forecast for Surrey's game is a little bit better, but not great.
I suspect that Derby is only sort of 50-60 miles or so away from Leeds, though, so their chances of predicting differences between the two grounds are probably slim until the day itself.
Petersen not playing for South Africa again today. Hope he's using his day off wisely packing reay to travel to Derby this evening (because South Africa are going to lose, obviously 
)
)
Well, no Steyn in addition to Morkel already being out along with Smith and Kallis. Amla out already.
They've only really got De Villiers and Duminy to come in terms of guys that one could imagine playing a match-winning innings. So, yes, looks like it will be played 10, lost 10 for South Africa in knock-out matches at ICC touraments .. some record!!
Bet SA make him stay on for some stupid "fitness assessment", though...
They've only really got De Villiers and Duminy to come in terms of guys that one could imagine playing a match-winning innings. So, yes, looks like it will be played 10, lost 10 for South Africa in knock-out matches at ICC touraments .. some record!!
Bet SA make him stay on for some stupid "fitness assessment", though...
I reckon we will do OK against Derby - we'll allow Wes a good score but hopefully not enough to embarrass us. I still believe Somerset's chances of avoiding the drop to Div 2 are 100 times greater than of Alan Pardew still being in his job at Christmas!!
But what's 100 times zero, Old Boy!!!!?????
(Before anyone complains, I don't think SCCC have zero chance, but Pardew does, despite his ten year contract or whatever nonsense they gave him).
(Before anyone complains, I don't think SCCC have zero chance, but Pardew does, despite his ten year contract or whatever nonsense they gave him).
As for our performance vs Derbyshire?
On paper, their pace bowling is easily the weakest in the division and arguably one of the weaker units amongst all 18 Counties.
I think batting and spin played the biggest role in them coming up although they did also get a surprising number of wickets from Palladino (who has been injured recently).
But they play Mark Turner almost every week in the CC which shows how lacking in options they must be.
Therefore.... this match really should be one for our batting to fire. Would be a really bad portent if we cannot score well against this pace attack, IMO.
Our bowling may have a harder job with Chanderpaul and a few others, including Wesley.
On paper, their pace bowling is easily the weakest in the division and arguably one of the weaker units amongst all 18 Counties.
I think batting and spin played the biggest role in them coming up although they did also get a surprising number of wickets from Palladino (who has been injured recently).
But they play Mark Turner almost every week in the CC which shows how lacking in options they must be.
Therefore.... this match really should be one for our batting to fire. Would be a really bad portent if we cannot score well against this pace attack, IMO.
Our bowling may have a harder job with Chanderpaul and a few others, including Wesley.
Quote:AGod
But what's 100 times zero, Old Boy!!!!?????
(Before anyone complains, I don't think SCCC have zero chance, but Pardew does, despite his ten year contract or whatever nonsense they gave him).
If I had said Somerset's chances of staying in Div 1 are 100 times greater than of Alan Pardew still being Newcastle Manager at Christmas, I'm saying exactly the same. Isn't avoiding relegation the same as staying in Div 1!???
You mathmatical geniuses should be able to work that out!!
Well on paper AG our pace bowling (Alf, Steve, Pete and Jove) isn't as weak as Derbyshire's and certainly not 'easily' So we are at least 17th on the county list and if someone wants to do the stats probably higher than that.
Present bowling averages suggest we are more effective in terms of average strike rate (34 to 45.7), average economy rates (3.3 to 4) and wickets taken (70 to 36)
How we stand against others I'm not sure but it's only Derbyshire that is important at the moment.
They will use a lot of spin (not surprising really) and our attack's stats are heavily affected by whether we pick Jack (good) or George(presently not so good).
Present bowling averages suggest we are more effective in terms of average strike rate (34 to 45.7), average economy rates (3.3 to 4) and wickets taken (70 to 36)
How we stand against others I'm not sure but it's only Derbyshire that is important at the moment.
They will use a lot of spin (not surprising really) and our attack's stats are heavily affected by whether we pick Jack (good) or George(presently not so good).
Yes, I know our attack has been more effective than Derbyshire's.
Still, only two of our guys currently have good bowling averages for the season, IMO - Alf and Jack.
Incidentally, has anyone clocked the utter stupidity of the ECB site's averages.
I looked at them yesterday and they list the bowling averages and, as one would expect that includes the strike-rate. Unfortunately, the strike-rates listed bare no relation whatsoever to the number of overs bowled vs wickets taken.
It took me about five minutes to work out why ... the idiots had included BATTING strike-rates alongside the bowling averages. At least, that's what I think has happened unless they have the world's worst mathematician producing their stats. Very poor from the ECB.
Still, only two of our guys currently have good bowling averages for the season, IMO - Alf and Jack.
Incidentally, has anyone clocked the utter stupidity of the ECB site's averages.
I looked at them yesterday and they list the bowling averages and, as one would expect that includes the strike-rate. Unfortunately, the strike-rates listed bare no relation whatsoever to the number of overs bowled vs wickets taken.
It took me about five minutes to work out why ... the idiots had included BATTING strike-rates alongside the bowling averages. At least, that's what I think has happened unless they have the world's worst mathematician producing their stats. Very poor from the ECB.
You don't think that it is reasonable to expect the ECB to produce accurate (rather than wildly inaccurate) stats then, NF?
Well AG at least you haven't tried to justify the huge generalisation about our bowling attack which it seems is not "easily on paper the worst in the division" and therefore statistically NOT the worst in the 18 counties.
[www.ecb.co.uk]
Here are the SCCC bowling figures according to the ECB.
The correct strike-rates (approximately) should read;
Jack Leach: 65.64
Alf: 57.33
Pete: 70.94
Jamie Overton: 58.2
p.s. Grockle - I therefore don't think that our overall bowling strike-rate can possibly be 34 as you suggest in your post of 14:53?
Not sure if you got your stats from the ECB site but, if so, the strike-rate bits are totally wrong, I'm afraid.
Here are the SCCC bowling figures according to the ECB.
The correct strike-rates (approximately) should read;
Jack Leach: 65.64
Alf: 57.33
Pete: 70.94
Jamie Overton: 58.2
p.s. Grockle - I therefore don't think that our overall bowling strike-rate can possibly be 34 as you suggest in your post of 14:53?
Not sure if you got your stats from the ECB site but, if so, the strike-rate bits are totally wrong, I'm afraid.
er.. Grockle re: your 16:05:
I didn't try to justify it- why not? Because I never made any such statement.
I said DERBYSHIRE'S attack was the weakest in the top flight.
I wondered what prompted your post of 14:53 and now I know - a mis-reading of my original post.
I didn't try to justify it- why not? Because I never made any such statement.
I said DERBYSHIRE'S attack was the weakest in the top flight.
I wondered what prompted your post of 14:53 and now I know - a mis-reading of my original post.
I see how the confusion probably occurred, Grockle;
"As for our performance vs Derbyshire?
On paper, their pace bowling is easily the weakest in the division and arguably one of the weaker units amongst all 18 Counties."
I suspect that on quick reading you read "the", implying our bowling whereas I wrote their meaning Derbyshire's.
"As for our performance vs Derbyshire?
On paper, their pace bowling is easily the weakest in the division and arguably one of the weaker units amongst all 18 Counties."
I suspect that on quick reading you read "the", implying our bowling whereas I wrote their meaning Derbyshire's.
I took the ESPN ones where they state them as
Thomo = 27
Trego = 36
Jove = 36
Kirby = 37
136/ 4 = 34
Thomo = 27
Trego = 36
Jove = 36
Kirby = 37
136/ 4 = 34
Ah you see - it's so consistently anti Somerset one just assumes it is once more.
Apologies AG it seems I did indeed misread.
Apologies AG it seems I did indeed misread.
We'd be top of the table if we had combined strike rates of 34!!!!!!
If you look at Test history the very best strike-rates of the modern era are from guys like Dale Steyn and Waqar Younis and I think they are in the high 30s.
But unless ESPN took their stats from the ECB it's pretty worrying that another major organisation cannot manage to multiply number of overs bowled by six and then divide by the number of wickets taken!
If you look at Test history the very best strike-rates of the modern era are from guys like Dale Steyn and Waqar Younis and I think they are in the high 30s.
But unless ESPN took their stats from the ECB it's pretty worrying that another major organisation cannot manage to multiply number of overs bowled by six and then divide by the number of wickets taken!
Actually 41 for Steyn and 43 for Waqar but I'm sure they're the best of the modern era if you exclude (possibly) the odd one or two cap wonder.
Don't tell me - tell them. I just go to the stats section and read what it says.
The Derbys strike-rate figures for their top wicket-takers are;
Clare: 48
Turner: 74
Footitt: 66
Gronewald: 87.69 (!)
Wes: 92.57
So, Clare apart, our figures are clearly better than theirs.
Clare: 48
Turner: 74
Footitt: 66
Gronewald: 87.69 (!)
Wes: 92.57
So, Clare apart, our figures are clearly better than theirs.
Quote:AGod
You don't think that it is reasonable to expect the ECB to produce accurate (rather than wildly inaccurate) stats then, NF?
Well i would hope they would check them before publishing but it's an oversight no doubt but not the end of the world and certainly not worth your idiots over reaction
What's all this talk of strike rates?
It's averages that matter. Runs conceded per wicket.
It's averages that matter. Runs conceded per wicket.
I think there's confusion here.
Grockle has quoted the (not very special) bowling averages.
I'm baffled by this modern obsession with 'strike rates'
The measure of a bowlers success over a season is and always been averages. Runs per wicket..
Grockle has quoted the (not very special) bowling averages.
I'm baffled by this modern obsession with 'strike rates'
The measure of a bowlers success over a season is and always been averages. Runs per wicket..
Yes, I see what you mean KT. Looking back Grockle mentioned 'average strike rate', when I think he meant simply average.
A bowling average of 45 would certainly explain why Derbys are bottom - I.e. average total conceded of 450, at least in theory.
A bowling average of 45 would certainly explain why Derbys are bottom - I.e. average total conceded of 450, at least in theory.
I would contest the assertion that average is THE measure of a bowler.
Strike rate gives an idea of a bowler's ability to penetrate, irrespective of whether he is being scored off at the same time. It perhaps gives more idea than the average does, as to how useful a bowler might be in forcing a win when an opponent is well behind and batting for a draw?
One might almost go so far as to say that the average gives a clue as to "first innings usefulness" and the strike rate "second innings usefulness".
Strike rate gives an idea of a bowler's ability to penetrate, irrespective of whether he is being scored off at the same time. It perhaps gives more idea than the average does, as to how useful a bowler might be in forcing a win when an opponent is well behind and batting for a draw?
One might almost go so far as to say that the average gives a clue as to "first innings usefulness" and the strike rate "second innings usefulness".
I'd say bowlers with low (good) strike-rates are very useful for winning games irrespective of whether or not the opposition is well behind.
If your batsmen score quickly that buys your bowlers time to win a match. If your bowlers take wickets quickly then your batsmen should get more of a chance to play at their own pace vs taking big risks to push the score along.
I think Warks won last year with that sort of approach...fairly attritional batting being combined with an attack that took wickets at very regular intervals.
If your batsmen score quickly that buys your bowlers time to win a match. If your bowlers take wickets quickly then your batsmen should get more of a chance to play at their own pace vs taking big risks to push the score along.
I think Warks won last year with that sort of approach...fairly attritional batting being combined with an attack that took wickets at very regular intervals.
Having looked at the ECB website, it does seem odd to me that it is showing the batting strike rate figures in the bowling strike rate column.
Quote:AGod
Yes, I see what you mean KT. Looking back Grockle mentioned 'average strike rate', when I think he meant simply average.
I meant 'simply' what I said I meant.
If you take the 'strike rate' for four bowlers, add them together and divide by four you get the
'average strike rate'.
It is quite simple really and doesn't really need any extra explanation by you.
Use it or don't use it but don't please explain what I mean to someone else when you seem to have no clue.
Er... Sorry, Grockle, but strike-rate in the eyes of everyone that knows about cricket means how frequently wickets are taken.
Average means the cost that wickets are taken at.
The figures you quoted were the arithmetical mean of the averages of a few of our bowlers.
They were nothing to do with strike-rate. Fact.
Average means the cost that wickets are taken at.
The figures you quoted were the arithmetical mean of the averages of a few of our bowlers.
They were nothing to do with strike-rate. Fact.
Errr sorry AG.
If you take the numbers from a column headed 'STRIKE RATE' for four bowlers and add them together then divide by four you get the MEAN average STRIKE RATE
That's is a MATHEMATICAL FACT.
I'm not interested in what you think that number means I'm telling you what the number WAS.
It does not require you to tell me (or anyone else) what I really mean. Your interpretation of that number is your interpretation it has NOTHING to do with what I posted or meant. Go and patronise someone else.
If you think the heading is wrong then please be my guest and tell Cricinfo or their parent ESPN that they have been naughty and are telling fibs.
And please desist from this stupid 'Fact' at the end of some statement. Just because you say it like somebody from 'This is Essex' or whatever doesn't make it irrefutable and says more about you than the statement itself.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:08:11:09 by Grockle.
If you take the numbers from a column headed 'STRIKE RATE' for four bowlers and add them together then divide by four you get the MEAN average STRIKE RATE
That's is a MATHEMATICAL FACT.
I'm not interested in what you think that number means I'm telling you what the number WAS.
It does not require you to tell me (or anyone else) what I really mean. Your interpretation of that number is your interpretation it has NOTHING to do with what I posted or meant. Go and patronise someone else.
If you think the heading is wrong then please be my guest and tell Cricinfo or their parent ESPN that they have been naughty and are telling fibs.
And please desist from this stupid 'Fact' at the end of some statement. Just because you say it like somebody from 'This is Essex' or whatever doesn't make it irrefutable and says more about you than the statement itself.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:08:11:09 by Grockle.
Quote:AGod
He means me and I'll gladly return the compliment.
Actually i didn't mean you Agod but was quoting your use of the word to describe the ECB in your original mail
Actually, Grockle, you were attempting to provide evidence to refute a point that was never actually made.
You were attempting to provide a figure that, you thought, was a measure of the effectiveness of the Somerset attack vs the Derbyshire one.
Whatever figures you had you thought that adding the sum of the four "end of calcuation" figures together and then dividing by four would produce an exact accurate measure of that.
If the figures that you listed really WERE strike-rates?
Your methodology would have only produced a vague guide rather than an accurate answer anyway.
Why?
Your methodology would only have worked if all of the bowlers had bowled the same amount of balls.
Example:
Last season Peter Trego had a strike-rate of 61.06. Abdur Rehman had a strike rate of 38.66. If those were the only two bowlers to have bowled for Somerset then you might think you could add them together, divide by two and have your answer - answer would be about 50.
However, because Pete bowled 508.5 overs and Rehman 174 then if you work it out properly then, on average, those two bowlers combined took a wicket every 53 balls.
You were attempting to provide a figure that, you thought, was a measure of the effectiveness of the Somerset attack vs the Derbyshire one.
Whatever figures you had you thought that adding the sum of the four "end of calcuation" figures together and then dividing by four would produce an exact accurate measure of that.
If the figures that you listed really WERE strike-rates?
Your methodology would have only produced a vague guide rather than an accurate answer anyway.
Why?
Your methodology would only have worked if all of the bowlers had bowled the same amount of balls.
Example:
Last season Peter Trego had a strike-rate of 61.06. Abdur Rehman had a strike rate of 38.66. If those were the only two bowlers to have bowled for Somerset then you might think you could add them together, divide by two and have your answer - answer would be about 50.
However, because Pete bowled 508.5 overs and Rehman 174 then if you work it out properly then, on average, those two bowlers combined took a wicket every 53 balls.
And when you said you got your figures from ESPN did you mean the "ESPN", Cricinfo site?
[stats.espncricinfo.com]
Here are the figures. The figures you quoted were indeed AVERAGES as KT rightly said. They were nothing to do with strike-rates. Unlike the unprofessional ECB figures, ESPN have the strike-rates correct - scan further along to the right.
[stats.espncricinfo.com]
Here are the figures. The figures you quoted were indeed AVERAGES as KT rightly said. They were nothing to do with strike-rates. Unlike the unprofessional ECB figures, ESPN have the strike-rates correct - scan further along to the right.
What the hell are you on about?
I gave three indicators from a recognised statistical website of three areas where our pace attack was numerically superior to Derbyshire. That is it pure and simple.
Whether that was in response to a misread post or not is irrelevant.
Whether those statistical indicators are in your opinion spurious is irrelevant.
Whether you think you know what I meant or not is irrelevant.
Your whole 'argument' to try and justify how right you are aand how wrong I am about my own post is irrelevant.
Don't patronise me by telling me what I was trying to say or not say. You obviously have no idea but that ego of yours seems to think you have. Sadly, sadly mistaken.
Even though Nailsea's assessment didn't seem to mean what you thought it meant you seem to be determined to live up to that misinterpreted meaning this morning.
I gave three indicators from a recognised statistical website of three areas where our pace attack was numerically superior to Derbyshire. That is it pure and simple.
Whether that was in response to a misread post or not is irrelevant.
Whether those statistical indicators are in your opinion spurious is irrelevant.
Whether you think you know what I meant or not is irrelevant.
Your whole 'argument' to try and justify how right you are aand how wrong I am about my own post is irrelevant.
Don't patronise me by telling me what I was trying to say or not say. You obviously have no idea but that ego of yours seems to think you have. Sadly, sadly mistaken.
Even though Nailsea's assessment didn't seem to mean what you thought it meant you seem to be determined to live up to that misinterpreted meaning this morning.
The figures are pretty stark, as well, in terms of how far and how quickly we've fallen. Or perhaps, to be more accurate, the extent to which (mainly) experienced men have under-performed. There have been bonuses in terms of Leach and Jamie O performing fairly well in the CC but that's nowhere near enough to off-set the mess detailed below:
Differnces in bowling averages through 7 games (compared to figures for the whole of last season) for those that bowled regularly are;
Alf Thomas - 5 runs per wicket worse off.
Peter Trego - more than 4 runs per wicket worse off.
Steve Kirby - 6 runs per wicket worse off.
George - 37 runs per wicket worse off.
I don't know if the heavy roller is partly to blame? BUT if we're going to blame the heavy roller then that makes the batsmen's first seven games look utterly appalling.
Great credit to Jos - he IS doing better - 15 or so runs better.
Otherwise?
Hildreth - 20 runs worse off (average 40 run deficit if gets 2 innings in match etc)
Tresco - 7 runs worse off (14)
Arul - 18 runs worse off. (36)
Pete - 17 runs worse off.(34)
Craig K (limited action) - 11 runs worse off. (22)
Compton not really worth mentioning as couldn't possibly be expected to do as well, but 44 runs worse off.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:08:34:48 by AGod.
Differnces in bowling averages through 7 games (compared to figures for the whole of last season) for those that bowled regularly are;
Alf Thomas - 5 runs per wicket worse off.
Peter Trego - more than 4 runs per wicket worse off.
Steve Kirby - 6 runs per wicket worse off.
George - 37 runs per wicket worse off.
I don't know if the heavy roller is partly to blame? BUT if we're going to blame the heavy roller then that makes the batsmen's first seven games look utterly appalling.
Great credit to Jos - he IS doing better - 15 or so runs better.
Otherwise?
Hildreth - 20 runs worse off (average 40 run deficit if gets 2 innings in match etc)
Tresco - 7 runs worse off (14)
Arul - 18 runs worse off. (36)
Pete - 17 runs worse off.(34)
Craig K (limited action) - 11 runs worse off. (22)
Compton not really worth mentioning as couldn't possibly be expected to do as well, but 44 runs worse off.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:08:34:48 by AGod.
Just admit it Grockle - if you got your figures from the ESPN Cricinfo website - you looked at the wrong column.... the figures you listed were listed (correctly) by them as averages.
Oh dear dear dear AG.... and on to the next irrelevance I think.
Go away and compose your e-mail to Cricinfo. Your argument seems to be with them.
Just don't, in future, think you can tell other people what I mean as if you have any idea and we'll be just fine.
Go away and compose your e-mail to Cricinfo. Your argument seems to be with them.
Just don't, in future, think you can tell other people what I mean as if you have any idea and we'll be just fine.
Nope, no argument with cricinfo their figures were right. You gave the figures that you took from them the wrong title by conflating the term "average", which they were with "strike-rate", which they were not.
By the way.... even with the averages the arithmetic mean that you produced doesn't actually give the bowling average at which the bowlers you cited collectively took their wickets.
Again, same example as before:
Rehman took 27 wickets for 383 runs at 14.18
Pete took 50 wicket for 1,554 runs at 31.08.
The "mean" of 14.18 and 31.08 is 22.63.
But Pete and Rehman collectively took their wickets at an average of 25.15 (383+1554) / (50+27)= 25.15
By the way.... even with the averages the arithmetic mean that you produced doesn't actually give the bowling average at which the bowlers you cited collectively took their wickets.
Again, same example as before:
Rehman took 27 wickets for 383 runs at 14.18
Pete took 50 wicket for 1,554 runs at 31.08.
The "mean" of 14.18 and 31.08 is 22.63.
But Pete and Rehman collectively took their wickets at an average of 25.15 (383+1554) / (50+27)= 25.15
Who cares?? Cricket is a wonderful spectator sport. Just enjoy the variety of opinions. If we all agreed there would be nothing to post on Grockle.com!! The main thing is to remember that just because other people don't agree with one's view that they are not 
idiots, or worse.
Happy days!!
idiots, or worse.
Happy days!!
Oh Dear oh Dear, I am so glad I do not get hooked up on stats,I go to Cricket to enjoy the game, the company,and of course the weather if we are lucky.
At the cricket, I enjoy the game 88 % of the time, the company 94 % of the time and the weather 60 % of the time.
Do you secretly watch games in the South of France or something?
Or have something of a liking for overcast and cool conditions!?
60% weather seems high!!
Or have something of a liking for overcast and cool conditions!?
60% weather seems high!!
Quote:old boy!
Who cares?? Cricket is a wonderful spectator sport. Just enjoy the variety of opinions. If we all agreed there would be nothing to post on Grockle.com!! The main thing is to remember that just because other people don't agree with one's view that they are not
Happy days!!
Yes, Old Boy - differences of views make the world go round.
But the actual number that is an average or a strike-rate is a matter of mathematical fact. It is only the interpretation of the meaning/value of that number that constitutes a "view" (or opinion)
Let him go on OB, he seems to like justifying things of no apparent value or relevance to himself and will find something else to bang on about in time.
Seems we are better than Derbyshire in terms of pace bowling anyway. Let's hope we show exactly that over the next few days.
Though the weather in this part of the world looks decidedly dodgy this morning. Hope it's drier and brighter in the Midlands.
Seems we are better than Derbyshire in terms of pace bowling anyway. Let's hope we show exactly that over the next few days.
Though the weather in this part of the world looks decidedly dodgy this morning. Hope it's drier and brighter in the Midlands.
Please accept this in the spirit in which it is intended. I have been meaning to post this for some time – perhaps this is as good a time as any.
It is not directed at any one person or persons in particular – it is perhaps hopefully something that we all can reflect upon with a smile.
The only apologies that I will tender in advance must be directed to Muppetdodger.
Here goes: -
[">www.youtube.com]
It is not directed at any one person or persons in particular – it is perhaps hopefully something that we all can reflect upon with a smile.
The only apologies that I will tender in advance must be directed to Muppetdodger.
Here goes: -
[">www.youtube.com]
The map that I saw for Friday on the Beeb weather yesterday had only two areas of rain on it.
One was small and seemed to cover only the East Midlands and probably a bit of South Yorks and Lincs.
And the other was a vast swathe of wet stuff off to the West of Ireland.
Based on that map, possible it will be dry at every other first-class game apart from Derby and maybe Leeds (where Surrey play).
One was small and seemed to cover only the East Midlands and probably a bit of South Yorks and Lincs.
And the other was a vast swathe of wet stuff off to the West of Ireland.
Based on that map, possible it will be dry at every other first-class game apart from Derby and maybe Leeds (where Surrey play).
When statistics (including our position in the Cc table) back up opinions as convincingly as do those in AG's 8.30 post there is cause for unease, to put it mildly.
PS Latest Met office forecast for Derby is cloudy, likely dry on Friday and Monday, but periods of rain between.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:11:16:59 by Casomer.
PS Latest Met office forecast for Derby is cloudy, likely dry on Friday and Monday, but periods of rain between.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:11:16:59 by Casomer.
True Casomer but statistics tend to back up any premise if used creatively and they only show what has happened in the past and what may happen in the future.
They do not provide certainty about future performance or activity and one has to have faith that they can be proved wrong if they are poor or proved right if they are good or there is little point following any side in any sport.
They do not provide certainty about future performance or activity and one has to have faith that they can be proved wrong if they are poor or proved right if they are good or there is little point following any side in any sport.
Nothing provides certainty about future performance.
There is no certainty about future performance.
But we are in a rut and no mistake.
Someway, somehow, individual players (with help from coaches, management, psychologists etc) need to find a way to pull themselves out of this collective slump.
If we can get just ONE win, the outlook might start to look different because self-belief may return.
It's very easy to confuse a lack of confidence with a lack of effort. I don't believe that our guys are not trying. But I do believe there have been times where they've got to the point where they are simply expecting bad things to happen to them. For example, at Horsham, in the second innings our batsmen looked - to me - as though they had little or no expectation of any success at all.
There is no certainty about future performance.
But we are in a rut and no mistake.
Someway, somehow, individual players (with help from coaches, management, psychologists etc) need to find a way to pull themselves out of this collective slump.
If we can get just ONE win, the outlook might start to look different because self-belief may return.
It's very easy to confuse a lack of confidence with a lack of effort. I don't believe that our guys are not trying. But I do believe there have been times where they've got to the point where they are simply expecting bad things to happen to them. For example, at Horsham, in the second innings our batsmen looked - to me - as though they had little or no expectation of any success at all.
Who is/was Mac Davis? I assume he's a US C/W star?
Excellent choice CP. I wonder if we could set up some way of it being automatically sent as a link via PM to the parties involved as the heat of a dispute on here rises....
Excellent choice CP. I wonder if we could set up some way of it being automatically sent as a link via PM to the parties involved as the heat of a dispute on here rises....
Nice to find myself in the position where I can agree with both eminent contributors. I shall be at Derby hoping, even expecting, if somewhat uneasily, for better things. C'mon Somerset!
Quote:Wickham
At the cricket, I enjoy the game 88 % of the time, the company 94 % of the time and the weather 60 % of the time.
Sorry about the 6%, Wickham. I'll try not to be so boring next time, but I do find it very hard not to go on and on and on and on and on etc
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
It's spending so much time on here LoL.... it gets into your head and then when you are in the real world with real things happening.....
Couldn't agree more with the idea of boosting self confidence AG - well done with your efforts to help wiith that cause any chance you get.
Mention of Horsham.... hmm 7 games (two CC1) and almost a month ago... good place to start? Not sure the side will be with you on that one. Seems to be stuck in your head. Not sure it'll be stuck in theirs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:12:08:51 by Grockle.
Couldn't agree more with the idea of boosting self confidence AG - well done with your efforts to help wiith that cause any chance you get.
Mention of Horsham.... hmm 7 games (two CC1) and almost a month ago... good place to start? Not sure the side will be with you on that one. Seems to be stuck in your head. Not sure it'll be stuck in theirs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:12:08:51 by Grockle.
Thanks AGod.
That's the best stastical analysis ive seeen of how our individual performances have been so poor this season.
Player by player, with the exception of Leach and Joverton as you note, Somerset have fallen back this season.
It's desperately disappointing and the players and management must look to themselves.
Re the issue above the problem is indeed that Grockle is confusing strike rate and averages.
An acceptable bowling average in the CC is below 35 and that's being generous. Batting should be above that.
the average is the real judge of a batsman or bowler and frankly there is little to be positive about this season other than the two players mentioned above.
What about a spinner who bowls 30 overs in an innings and takes 3-75? His strike rate might be ordinary but his average will better reflect the control and pressure he put on the opposing batsmen.
That's the best stastical analysis ive seeen of how our individual performances have been so poor this season.
Player by player, with the exception of Leach and Joverton as you note, Somerset have fallen back this season.
It's desperately disappointing and the players and management must look to themselves.
Re the issue above the problem is indeed that Grockle is confusing strike rate and averages.
An acceptable bowling average in the CC is below 35 and that's being generous. Batting should be above that.
the average is the real judge of a batsman or bowler and frankly there is little to be positive about this season other than the two players mentioned above.
What about a spinner who bowls 30 overs in an innings and takes 3-75? His strike rate might be ordinary but his average will better reflect the control and pressure he put on the opposing batsmen.
Quote:Grockle
It's spending so much time on here LoL.... it gets into your head and then when you are in the real world with real things happening.....
Couldn't agree more with the idea of boosting self confidence AG - well done with your efforts to help wiith that cause any chance you get.
Mention of Horsham.... hmm 7 games (two CC1) and almost a month ago... good place to start? Not sure the side will be with you on that one. Seems to be stuck in your head. Not sure it'll be stuck in theirs.
It might well have been stuck in yours had you had to witness any of it!
Oh, and believe me, Grockle, there is nothing that anybody on a message board can do to meaningfully boost the confidence of the Somerset players - and that includes you!
Edit: in response to KT, above.
In an fourth innings in which one had, for example, 75 overs in which to take 10 wickets, such figures wouldn't necessarily be good enough. Which is why strike rate is just as important a measure of a bowler's usefulness, depending on the situation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:14:20:10 by Frome Exile.
In an fourth innings in which one had, for example, 75 overs in which to take 10 wickets, such figures wouldn't necessarily be good enough. Which is why strike rate is just as important a measure of a bowler's usefulness, depending on the situation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:14:20:10 by Frome Exile.
Quote:Clarence Parker
Please accept this in the spirit in which it is intended. I have been meaning to post this for some time – perhaps this is as good a time as any.
It is not directed at any one person or persons in particular – it is perhaps hopefully something that we all can reflect upon with a smile.
The only apologies that I will tender in advance must be directed to Muppetdodger.
Here goes: -
[">www.youtube.com]
Clarence!! Perfect!! You are a genius!! You know I've always thought it
, but I haven't laughed as much for a long time - probably the last time I tried to be humble!!
As for Derby, lets hope that our 'on the spot reporter Casomer' doesn't have to cope with too much bad weather!!
Very true AG I'm with them in spirit I suppose rather than against them at every opportunity. I'm sure they've looked at the Sussex game and the two since then and identified work that needs doing. Hoppe they aren't in the same traumatic state as you about it, it being just a game of cricket and all that.
KT- thanks for sticking your oar in as well
As I said to your sidekick, I'm not interested other than the figures whatever they supposedly showed indicated that we were better in terms of that measure than our soon to be opponents.
If you two pedants want to analyse the living daylights out of the figures then you are most welcome. I gave three indicators, we were better in all three. Seems enough for me
Find the doom laden meaning in them to your hearts content. I'll wait for the game and see what we can make of it on the actual day and then go from there.
KT- thanks for sticking your oar in as well
As I said to your sidekick, I'm not interested other than the figures whatever they supposedly showed indicated that we were better in terms of that measure than our soon to be opponents.
If you two pedants want to analyse the living daylights out of the figures then you are most welcome. I gave three indicators, we were better in all three. Seems enough for me
Find the doom laden meaning in them to your hearts content. I'll wait for the game and see what we can make of it on the actual day and then go from there.
Really? They have probably done their own analysis of performances then, taken measure of them and know the size of the task they have in front of them.
I was talking about you - or is this your profession?
I was talking about you - or is this your profession?
As we head for relegation from the CC 1st division, the denial amongst some about our situation is extraordinary.
Our situation is currently redeemed only by the paucity of Surrey and Derbyshire.
I don't honestly expect a miraculous recovery in the second half of this season as far as our form is concerned.
But we might not need one in order to finish ahead of Surrey and Derbyshire.
I don't honestly expect a miraculous recovery in the second half of this season as far as our form is concerned.
But we might not need one in order to finish ahead of Surrey and Derbyshire.
KT, AG etc. My God!! What pessimists there are in our ranks!!
I have a few suits of sackcloth and ashes which can be altered to fit you all. You may turn out to be right in your misery etc but I wouldn't fancy being around when you all feel really happy - it could be too overwhelming for us all.
I have enough belief that the situation can be turned around with all the young talent we have. And anyway with each of the nine teams wanting to win every game, isn't that what makes the summer worth waiting for??
If you don't all cheer up pretty quickly, I will get Big Jim to gather all his mates together and come after you all, with LOL acting as cheerleader!!
I have a few suits of sackcloth and ashes which can be altered to fit you all. You may turn out to be right in your misery etc but I wouldn't fancy being around when you all feel really happy - it could be too overwhelming for us all.
I have enough belief that the situation can be turned around with all the young talent we have. And anyway with each of the nine teams wanting to win every game, isn't that what makes the summer worth waiting for??
If you don't all cheer up pretty quickly, I will get Big Jim to gather all his mates together and come after you all, with LOL acting as cheerleader!!
KT, I don't think anyone on here is in denial about our situation, at all.
BUT some choose not to be so gloomy, or to remind us all quite so regularly about it, or to assume the players and staff haven't realised, and to go on about it all the time, but instead look on the bright side. There are some good things about Somerset CCC at the moment - our YB40 form, our England players, youngsters like Jove and Jack and Craig Meschede and the fact we can do so well in the one-day stuff fielding a bunch of senior pros like Alf, Tres and Kirbs alongside promising under-25s like the above plus Gregory, Dockrell, Barrow, Buttler et al.
Edited to add: KT (and others) - don't get me wrong, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion and the way you express it - but don't be surprised or put out if others are a little more reasoned about it and have things in a different perspective.
I wish we were 50 points clear at the top of the CC! We're not, but life's not so gloomy, honestly...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:18:35:06 by SheptonPaul.
BUT some choose not to be so gloomy, or to remind us all quite so regularly about it, or to assume the players and staff haven't realised, and to go on about it all the time, but instead look on the bright side. There are some good things about Somerset CCC at the moment - our YB40 form, our England players, youngsters like Jove and Jack and Craig Meschede and the fact we can do so well in the one-day stuff fielding a bunch of senior pros like Alf, Tres and Kirbs alongside promising under-25s like the above plus Gregory, Dockrell, Barrow, Buttler et al.
Edited to add: KT (and others) - don't get me wrong, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion and the way you express it - but don't be surprised or put out if others are a little more reasoned about it and have things in a different perspective.
I wish we were 50 points clear at the top of the CC! We're not, but life's not so gloomy, honestly...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:18:35:06 by SheptonPaul.
Well OB I take your point and I do not continually peddle pessimism as opposed to realism BUT.....we are deep in the brown stuff whichever way you look at it and the truth is we are in a relegation battle ( defined as a battle against relegation whatever nonsense Grockle posts ) and the posters who just tell us it will all be Okay are not filling me with confidence.
I guess you look at our position as an individual and make your assessment of where we are.
Personally I will be very surprised if we stay up, based on what I see, what the table says and the way we are playing but I hope I am proved wrong !!
I guess you look at our position as an individual and make your assessment of where we are.
Personally I will be very surprised if we stay up, based on what I see, what the table says and the way we are playing but I hope I am proved wrong !!
I don't think anyone is in denial about the fact that we are in a parlous position.
Some of us though, certainly I among them, refuse to accept that that position NECESSARILY means we will remain in that position until the end of the season. More refusal than denial; but such is the ephemeral nature of faith, belief, hope.
A win against a relegation rival this week would certainly help bolster that faith, though.
Some of us though, certainly I among them, refuse to accept that that position NECESSARILY means we will remain in that position until the end of the season. More refusal than denial; but such is the ephemeral nature of faith, belief, hope.
A win against a relegation rival this week would certainly help bolster that faith, though.
Rodders!! Was the 'nonsense' jib supposed to be an insult?
Do you think you have some kind of authority because you have been around longer and therefore have an opinion that has more weight because of that? (I know you've suggested that before)
Unfortunately we've both only been relegated once before and I assume we were both around for that one.
A relegation 'battle' suggests we are fighting with others to avoid it. That occurs when we find ourselves in the bottom three without enough points available to pass the county in the bottom fourth position. Then we have to fight the other two counties unfortunately there with us to avoid the bottom two. THAT is a relegation battle and that isn't 'nonsense'.
We aren't there yet. The team got us here and the team has to get us out of here. There is time and points available for that to happen so my realistic optimism presently trumps your pessimism.
It isn't going to be easy and I may be wrong in my faith that we will succeed but I'm simply not willing to accept defeat halfway through the season or see the possible outcome as gloomily as you and others do.
You call it a 'battle' I presently define it as something else beginning with 'b'.
I'll accept your view as valid. You can do what you like with mine. It's mine and I'll choose to hold it and change it as the season goes on as is my right here.
I hope to post that I told you so later on and I'm sure you'll look forward to saying the same to me... though yours will be a hollow victory because it will result in a scenario I don't think either of us want.
(Oh and I'm not the only one who believes your definition of 'nonsense' by the way. I'll just argue the toss with you about it.
)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:19:46:45 by Grockle.
Do you think you have some kind of authority because you have been around longer and therefore have an opinion that has more weight because of that? (I know you've suggested that before)
Unfortunately we've both only been relegated once before and I assume we were both around for that one.
A relegation 'battle' suggests we are fighting with others to avoid it. That occurs when we find ourselves in the bottom three without enough points available to pass the county in the bottom fourth position. Then we have to fight the other two counties unfortunately there with us to avoid the bottom two. THAT is a relegation battle and that isn't 'nonsense'.
We aren't there yet. The team got us here and the team has to get us out of here. There is time and points available for that to happen so my realistic optimism presently trumps your pessimism.
It isn't going to be easy and I may be wrong in my faith that we will succeed but I'm simply not willing to accept defeat halfway through the season or see the possible outcome as gloomily as you and others do.
You call it a 'battle' I presently define it as something else beginning with 'b'.
I'll accept your view as valid. You can do what you like with mine. It's mine and I'll choose to hold it and change it as the season goes on as is my right here.
I hope to post that I told you so later on and I'm sure you'll look forward to saying the same to me... though yours will be a hollow victory because it will result in a scenario I don't think either of us want.
(Oh and I'm not the only one who believes your definition of 'nonsense' by the way. I'll just argue the toss with you about it.
)Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:19:46:45 by Grockle.
Sorry Grocks but your constant dissertation on what and is not what a relegation battle gets tiresome I fear. A relegation battle by most definitions equals a battle against relegation which is what we are involved in. If you wish to dress it up / define it / change the meaning / post stuff about my opinions being this or that - good luck to you and you are entitled to your opinion of course. Sadly that does not alter the fact ( and it is a fact not my opinion ) that we are in a relegation battle as 99% of the population would define such.
If you do not believe same then be happy, my postings on said subject are now closed.
If you do not believe same then be happy, my postings on said subject are now closed.
AP may have tweeted that he's back with us but, annoyingly, he's not included vs Derbys.
I only bring up anything about any kind of 'battle' (why would I do it I don't think it is that serious yet) when people tell me we're in one and I'm in some kind of denial.
My definition hasn't changed since we started this silliness. You define it your way I define it mine. I don't care what you think - call it a 'battle' from here until doomsday comes if you want but don't insult me by saying I am not entitled to a valid different view simply because you don't agree with it
Not only is my view 'nonsense' but also 'tiresome'. I assume AG's constant posts are not 'tiresome' because you agree with them?
99% of the people here don't define the position the way you do so I don't understand where you get this universal acceptance of your definition from. Is there some Oxford English Dictionary version I am unaware of that is taught to all sports fans at birth or something?
If you are not going to discuss the subject again then that is the best news I've had all evening because we can talk about the actual important stuff related to the next game and not personal definitions of how serious the present situation is which only hold value for the individuals themselves.
Yayy!!! Perhaps you could PM AG and tell him of your decision as well and he can join me in ceasing to be 'tiresome' about it.
Don't try and impose your view on me and I'll happily allow you to have your own perception of the position without insulting you for holding it or defending it.
Otherwise I'm happy too have more full and frank discussions but you will have to instigate them as is usual.
Maybe just accepting there are alternative views without devaluing them because they differ from yours would be a strategy perhaps?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:20:50:09 by Grockle.
My definition hasn't changed since we started this silliness. You define it your way I define it mine. I don't care what you think - call it a 'battle' from here until doomsday comes if you want but don't insult me by saying I am not entitled to a valid different view simply because you don't agree with it
Not only is my view 'nonsense' but also 'tiresome'. I assume AG's constant posts are not 'tiresome' because you agree with them?
99% of the people here don't define the position the way you do so I don't understand where you get this universal acceptance of your definition from. Is there some Oxford English Dictionary version I am unaware of that is taught to all sports fans at birth or something?
If you are not going to discuss the subject again then that is the best news I've had all evening because we can talk about the actual important stuff related to the next game and not personal definitions of how serious the present situation is which only hold value for the individuals themselves.
Yayy!!! Perhaps you could PM AG and tell him of your decision as well and he can join me in ceasing to be 'tiresome' about it.
Don't try and impose your view on me and I'll happily allow you to have your own perception of the position without insulting you for holding it or defending it.
Otherwise I'm happy too have more full and frank discussions but you will have to instigate them as is usual.
Maybe just accepting there are alternative views without devaluing them because they differ from yours would be a strategy perhaps?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:20:50:09 by Grockle.
An unusual number of SCCC players - three - all invited by the official site to give their view ahead of the Derbyshire game.
Unsurprisingly the views given seem to be three different versions of 'We really must win this one.'
Whilst Marcus mentions that 'we're only two or three wins from being second or third', Hildreth says 'If we're going to have a sniff we need to win this one.'
Doesn't specify what we'd be getting a 'sniff', of though..
Unsurprisingly the views given seem to be three different versions of 'We really must win this one.'
Whilst Marcus mentions that 'we're only two or three wins from being second or third', Hildreth says 'If we're going to have a sniff we need to win this one.'
Doesn't specify what we'd be getting a 'sniff', of though..
Good to see they all see this as a big game.
I'd just like to see them have four days to work with.
I'd just like to see them have four days to work with.
On balance the forecast seems to be getting a little bit better. Still forecast to be unsettled but more bright stuff and forecast more for showers than steady rain.
Looking at the comparison between today and yesterday in West Somerset there is an awful amount of scope for any forecast.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:22:55:13 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:20:22:55:13 by Grockle.
Expect Surrey to get sufficient @#$%& kicking from new management to improve. cant say if it will save them, but will put extra pressure on us.
Batting OUGHT to be stronger with CK and Compo,but we will need to take 20 wickets. Its about time our bowlers did the job in both digs and that the batters give them the chance to do that ;-)
Simple really
Batting OUGHT to be stronger with CK and Compo,but we will need to take 20 wickets. Its about time our bowlers did the job in both digs and that the batters give them the chance to do that ;-)
Simple really
No spinner then
ME Trescothick*, NRD Compton, D Elgar, JC Hildreth, C Kieswetter, AWR Barrow†, PD Trego, CAJ Meschede, AC Thomas, J Overton, SP Kirby
We won the toss and bowl
ME Trescothick*, NRD Compton, D Elgar, JC Hildreth, C Kieswetter, AWR Barrow†, PD Trego, CAJ Meschede, AC Thomas, J Overton, SP Kirby
We won the toss and bowl
Well I thought we'd go in with George but I did point out that he might be struggling to keep Jack Leach out at the moment because his county form hasn't been wonderful.
Was about to copy your initial post to here NW5 but you pre-empted me.
Was about to copy your initial post to here NW5 but you pre-empted me.
Come on lads - I am confident we can win this one as we have a superior team.
Makes sense to continue to look after Craig K's thumb.
And Jos will be back for most of T20 so even if Barrow may not be suited to hit and giggle, we could continue to look after Kies's thumb, if needs be.
In terms of no spinner team selection may well have been influenced by a fairly poor forecast i.e if we're only going to get maybe 2 and a bit days of play not that much scope for track to deteriorate.
And Jos will be back for most of T20 so even if Barrow may not be suited to hit and giggle, we could continue to look after Kies's thumb, if needs be.
In terms of no spinner team selection may well have been influenced by a fairly poor forecast i.e if we're only going to get maybe 2 and a bit days of play not that much scope for track to deteriorate.
Batting line-up also looks fairly deep with Alf down at 9, which might possibly be another factor.
This game is all about application. Whatever Derbyshire do, we need to do it better and show our class... if we have any :-)
First innings activities need to put this one away, a drawn out game seems unlikely.
First innings activities need to put this one away, a drawn out game seems unlikely.
Trego not sharing the new ball.
Is that the first time this season?
Is that the first time this season?
I wonder why Alf never gets it? He seems to have been the most effective seamer, overall, so far this season.
I'm sure the skies above are a factor in fielding first but I do also wonder whether we should not be backing our batting line-up to bat first against a bowling attack that has struggled to the nth degree?
I'm sure the skies above are a factor in fielding first but I do also wonder whether we should not be backing our batting line-up to bat first against a bowling attack that has struggled to the nth degree?
As far a the lack of a spinner in the side we do have Dean Elgar and then could also call on Craig K if needed.
4 no balls from Jamie. I'll let him off if he takes 10 wickets in the match.
Somebody tell them it is Trego and not Trago, the Somerset man got it wrong.
Is it really "pathetic", or just a little bit poor? How should you pronounce Meschede?
It's hardly comparable, SLC, given that Trego is an English name and that he's been playing for us for years and years.
But I believe it was said, by Craig's mother, that it's something like "Meh-sh-de".
p.s. my phonetic spelling might not be very good, but I understand that the key point with Craig M's surname is that all the the "e"s are "hard" i.e. the middle e is not pronounced "ay" and the final one is not pronounced "eee"
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:12:25:39 by AGod.
But I believe it was said, by Craig's mother, that it's something like "Meh-sh-de".
p.s. my phonetic spelling might not be very good, but I understand that the key point with Craig M's surname is that all the the "e"s are "hard" i.e. the middle e is not pronounced "ay" and the final one is not pronounced "eee"
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:12:25:39 by AGod.
Still, how many CC games has he played for Somerset over, say, the past 5 seasons!?
Folks should know by now, IMO.
Folks should know by now, IMO.
Maybe, but I still always have to catch myself, and generally call him TraygoTreego.
Very well done, Craig Meschede.
Bet S V C would have batted all-day if he'd still been in after lunch!!
Bet S V C would have batted all-day if he'd still been in after lunch!!
Great wicket to get just before lunch. Just shading the morning session I'd say.
Craig's name was evidently German or Dutch originally, and in either of those languages the correct pronunciation would be MeSHAYda (i.e. stress on the middle syllable). Which doesn't necessarily mean that is the pronunciation now in use, or that which he and his family prefer.
As I've said before, it seems to me that any commentator with some notion of professionalism should take the trouble before going on air to familiarise himself with the basic details of the opposition team, including how to pronounce their names. That is certainly what I would do if I were a commentator.
As I've said before, it seems to me that any commentator with some notion of professionalism should take the trouble before going on air to familiarise himself with the basic details of the opposition team, including how to pronounce their names. That is certainly what I would do if I were a commentator.
mikeindex - as I say, I have may have imagined the entire episode but I had the feeling that at one commentary at some point last season they said that Craig M's mother had contacted them to say it was pronounced in the exact way that it was pronounced by the PA guy when Craig came on to bowl this morning (which was the pronunciation which I was trying to describe in my post)
Alf is, arguably, the only senior player to have not had either a below par or seriously below par CC season.
Same sort of situation that we had vs Surrey at the Oval and vs Yorkshire at Headingley.
We were unable to force the situation home at all in those games.
CanNOT afford for that to happen again..
We were unable to force the situation home at all in those games.
CanNOT afford for that to happen again..
Thanks, Tumbles. And for those watching live, Derbyshire are all out for 173.
A good day at the office so far for the bowlers...
No reply to my email re: Tree-go/Tray-go. Not that I was expecting one!!
No reply to my email re: Tree-go/Tray-go. Not that I was expecting one!!
Yep... good job we played that old timer Kirby!! I think we ought to wind Steve up on a weekly basis. It gets him riled and then someone comes a cropper!!
I'd like us to finish them off before they get any bonus points. Then get 400..
Unless weather forecasts far too pessimistic then probably not time for us to score 400 if we want to have time to win game?
Then again, let's not forget this sounds a "sporting" surface and with our batting form, 400 may not be achievable anyway, no matter how badly the Derbyshire attack has been struggling.
Then again, let's not forget this sounds a "sporting" surface and with our batting form, 400 may not be achievable anyway, no matter how badly the Derbyshire attack has been struggling.
A point about not having a spinning in the team to speed up the over-rate, unless Dean Elgar turn his arm over.
Quote:AGod
Unless weather forecasts far too pessimistic then probably not time for us to score 400 if we want to have time to win game?
Then again, let's not forget this sounds a "sporting" surface and with our batting form, 400 may not be achievable anyway, no matter how badly the Derbyshire attack has been struggling.
A quick damper added on a good day so far just to keep us in check:-)
Quote:SheptonPaul
But do they know Chanders is my cousin?
As I recall, SP, even you didn't know until I told you.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Just once it'd be nice to finish off a team when 5/6 down for not many more runs. Just once..
[quote AGod]Just realism, I know you dislike it, Nailsea.[/quote
I can cope with the realism it's just the monotony of it i find hard
I can cope with the realism it's just the monotony of it i find hard
The monotony of realism...sounds like a book I would avoid...although presumably something that troubles us all.
But I do notice a trend that may counties put on a good number of runs for the 7th, and 8th wickets ( and even the 9th) It is becoming more common for a score that looked poor to gain respectability and while it is annoying when pour opponents do it I think it has something to do with counties having shorter tails by andlarge.
You see someone mentions a sporting pitch and the batting improves .:-)
Just a thought you lads who are doubting our bowlers - perhaps, could we just for once think that the Derbyshire 8th wicket pair are batting well?. I think so - however I do hate going into ANY game without at least one specialist spinner.
Let's not forget that many of these "lower order rallies" (including this one) occur when bowlers are doing the best they can with an old, often soft, ball.
Hopefully we've now got a new cherry and wickets will come again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:17:44:41 by Frome Exile.
Hopefully we've now got a new cherry and wickets will come again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:17:44:41 by Frome Exile.
Yes, Old Boy, but you can't really complain too much about others 'doubting' our bowlers, given your consistent criticisms of our bowling this season.
The irony is that Tony Palladino, who contributed 49 to this annoying eighth wicket stand of 88, was returning to the side after a long injury lay-off. To make room for him. Derby dropped our old boy Mark Turner, despite one or two reasonable bowling performances from him of late.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:17:46:45 by cricketjerry-mouse.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:17:46:45 by cricketjerry-mouse.
I was doubting Marcus's catching ability the other day, I will eat my words for tea today.
Quote:AGod
Yes, Old Boy, but you can't really complain too much about others 'doubting' our bowlers, given your consistent criticisms of our bowling this season.
After this response, you can post whatever you like, and I WILL NOT GIVE YOU the satisfaction of arguing with you or respond again about putting words in my mouth which weren't there. Like other folk I have feel that some of our bowling (the fast variety) could have been better directed, but I will not allow you to SAY that I have CONSISTENTLY CRITICISED our bowling. Again, as you will ALWAYS want to have the last word from, IMO, your fevered mindset, there WILL BE no further response on this post from me.
Goodnight!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:21:18:00:54 by old boy!.
Three bowling points compared with only one for Surrey so far.
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:Frome Exile
Let's not forget that many of these "lower order rallies" (including this one) occur when bowlers are doing the best they can with an old, often soft, ball.
Hopefully we've now got a new cherry and wickets will come again.
And six overs later......
Trescothick run out in similar way to Bell's dismissal against India a year or two ago - walking off at the end of play. Sounds like pretty sharp practice!!
Sounds like an unsavoury ending to the day with MT "run out" when walking off, thinking it was all over. I don't care what the letter of the law says: the principle of mens rea should apply. Trescothick was not attempting a run and therefore should not be run out.
It is not clear yet whether the appeal has been withdrawn.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
It is not clear yet whether the appeal has been withdrawn.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
We don't know yet Old Boy, they called it sloppy cricket by Marcus, the Derbyshire captain may have withdrawn the appeal.
That was the day Dhoni rose very high in my admiration of him for withdrawing any appeal. The point appears to be that the umpire HAS given Marcus out.
Well Cricinfo is saying he is not out and Somerset is saying he is not out.
Sorry, Old Boy, but the strength of your reaction to my post gives the lie to this situation.
You have consistently made the point about our attack lacking consistency and accuracy this season.
I don't criticise you for one moment for making this point.
But you cannot credibly pretend that you have not done so.
You have consistently made the point about our attack lacking consistency and accuracy this season.
I don't criticise you for one moment for making this point.
But you cannot credibly pretend that you have not done so.
So, I went to the pub at 4.30. The scorecard says Marcus is not out? Is that wrong?
Quote:I repeat NO COMMENT!!AGod
Sorry, Old Boy, but the strength of your reaction to my post gives the lie to this situation.
You have consistently made the point about our attack lacking consistency and accuracy this season.
I don't criticise you for one moment for making this point.
But you cannot credibly pretend that you have not done so.
Evening me darlings.
So, what's been happening whilst I've been away...you've not been criticising our bowlers again have you Old boy, that's been a feature this season in the eyes of some....well, maybe one.
It sounds like a pretty grubby trick played on Marcus at the end, I've always said you need to keep an eye on these northerners.
So, what's been happening whilst I've been away...you've not been criticising our bowlers again have you Old boy, that's been a feature this season in the eyes of some....well, maybe one.
It sounds like a pretty grubby trick played on Marcus at the end, I've always said you need to keep an eye on these northerners.
Just come in.
Anyone not willing to take 266 all out at the start of the day without referring to hindsight? I would have been happy with that for their first punt. We just need to double it now and then get them in and out again.
Anyone not willing to take 266 all out at the start of the day without referring to hindsight? I would have been happy with that for their first punt. We just need to double it now and then get them in and out again.
Not a simple answer at all. Yes or No is a simple answer.
266 all out on day one of a CC1 match to a side struggling for form? Don't think the track has anything to do with it personally. That's a decent return for most games.
266 all out on day one of a CC1 match to a side struggling for form? Don't think the track has anything to do with it personally. That's a decent return for most games.
Quote:Big Jim
Evening me darlings.
It sounds like a pretty grubby trick played on Marcus at the end, I've always said you need to keep an eye on these northerners.
Only problem BJ isthat Masden is South African and Derbyshire's in the Midlands!!!
Wickham notes that Derby site gives Marcus not out but I can't help wondering how accurate the quote is
Somerset had seven overs to navigate, which they did without incident, as the visitors closed the day on 16-0 - trailing by 250 runs - with Trescothick unbeaten on 10 and Nick Compton six not out.
Somerset had seven overs to navigate, which they did without incident, as the visitors closed the day on 16-0 - trailing by 250 runs - with Trescothick unbeaten on 10 and Nick Compton six not out.
Poor forecast for this weekend, especially tomorrow.
Let's hope it's wrong or might struggle to get much more than 30 overs or so over the weekend.
Let's hope it's wrong or might struggle to get much more than 30 overs or so over the weekend.
Damn. Another draw.
Start the thread for the Aussie game. I'll close this one down.
Start the thread for the Aussie game. I'll close this one down.
Play due to restart at noon, according to CricInfo. I hope Tres and Compton aren't rugby fans (what a try!).
Wesley might be an issue for him, given his travails against off-spin this season.
I am bound to share AGod's dread and daren't tell him that the ground is situated on an awakening volcano which could erupt at any minute.
I've stopped taking my life insurance contributions to the bank in case I get run over on the way.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I've stopped taking my life insurance contributions to the bank in case I get run over on the way.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Yep, Ronnie.
I do enjoy having my own personal commentator to comment on me - wonderful fun!
I do enjoy having my own personal commentator to comment on me - wonderful fun!
If BJ comes on here and starts crowing that Wales have just beaten Australia, I think we should humour him.
And I suppose that if Grockle comes on to berate me for an irrelevant post I shall have to humour him too.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
And I suppose that if Grockle comes on to berate me for an irrelevant post I shall have to humour him too.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I looked at the rainfall radar and it looks as though we may get a completely clear window of play for the final session of today's play.
However, the post-lunch session looks likely to be damp, albeit only light rain.
However, the post-lunch session looks likely to be damp, albeit only light rain.
Just doesn't seem to have the concentration anymore to convert any of these starts into big knocks.
Surrey are out of time for bowling points at Leeds.
Surrey are out of time for bowling points at Leeds.
nNt so sure, I think/hope it is a confidence thing. I was hoping MT would get a ton today. I think that would be a big lift for the club and personally. I do wonder if he will quit at the end of the season if he continues to fall short of his own high standards. I hope not, but fear he might :-(
Give it a rest, AG.
After all, 50 is only 6 short of the highest score in the match so far!!!
After all, 50 is only 6 short of the highest score in the match so far!!!
61/10
76/10
108/10
117/2 (so far)
Somerset's successive away scores - we're on a roll!
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
76/10
108/10
117/2 (so far)
Somerset's successive away scores - we're on a roll!
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
So....perhaps it represents, relative to others, a veritable triumph of concentration.
Difficult to be sure from the bare numbers alone though, eh?
Difficult to be sure from the bare numbers alone though, eh?
2 of 3 wkts given away, thus far, according to commentators.
FE - the wider point with Tres is the number of times he's making 30, 40 or 50 but doesn't seem to be able to push on as he once could/would.
FE - the wider point with Tres is the number of times he's making 30, 40 or 50 but doesn't seem to be able to push on as he once could/would.
I think Marcus is entitled to have what would be to others a good season getting around 40/50 each time, but from his point of view not so good. I'll back him to take a few County attacks apart before the end of the season! Fitness might also be an issue with him - I still wonder about that right ankle in a permanent brace!
It does seem to have been since the injury that his relative under-performance has begun.
One wonders if it hurts and, thus, affects concentration.
One wonders if it hurts and, thus, affects concentration.
Someone give this commentator a sandwich to stop him moaning about the tea interval!!
That rally in their innings is starting to look very costly and may cost us this match.
I think, AGod, you've forgotten about the Trego/Thomas rally and then the Trego/Mesechede one.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
We will surely need one, LoL, as our guys morale levels are probably not such that we could expect them to win if we concede much of a first-innings deficit, nor is our batting form good enough to be confident of chasing a significant target in the 4th innings of the contest.
It seems from what has been said only Dean Elgar and Marcus Trescothick were out to bad shots the rest of the batsmen got good balls.
But Trescothick gets out to "bad shots" too often in my opinion.
Not only does he open the batting, but also he is the captain of a side at the wrong end of the CC table who are desperate for a win. And today we are playing the only side below us in the table!
Does not that go through his mind before he plays the aforementioned "bad shots"?
Not only does he open the batting, but also he is the captain of a side at the wrong end of the CC table who are desperate for a win. And today we are playing the only side below us in the table!
Does not that go through his mind before he plays the aforementioned "bad shots"?
It sounds like there's plenty in this deck, still, Mike.
It's because it's sounded like there's plenty in the deck that I was far from convinced that bowling Derbys out for 266 was anything to write home about.
It's because it's sounded like there's plenty in the deck that I was far from convinced that bowling Derbys out for 266 was anything to write home about.
Elgar - in his short stint - seems to have made a habit of sloppy dismissals.
Really not done enough, IMO, to be invited back should a vacancy arise in the future.
Really not done enough, IMO, to be invited back should a vacancy arise in the future.
Quote:AGod
It sounds like there's plenty in this deck, still, Mike.
Yes there seems to be plenty of bounce in the pitch look at all their byes (12).
Well when you've worked out who should replace MT as opener AND captain CP let us know and we'll pop them in and see how they do. :-)
Just in case anyone has forgotten we still have 4 wickets left AND a CC match consists of two innings each!! I can hear John Laurie's words from "Dads Army" being echoed here "DOOMED, DOOMED, WE'RE ALL DOOMED!"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:22:16:36:05 by old boy!.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:22:16:36:05 by old boy!.
Of course one could argue that any shot which results in a wicket is a bad shot.
Or perhaps some of the sages here could offer the name of a batsman who gets out too often playing good shots?
Or perhaps some of the sages here could offer the name of a batsman who gets out too often playing good shots?
Well said FE! And of course, sometimes the bowlers are entitled to bowl well!!
Back on at 5pm.
One thing that might possibly help us could be Monday's weather, which is forecast to be glorious.
One thing that might possibly help us could be Monday's weather, which is forecast to be glorious.
Yes, Old Boy, but almost be definition a 'bad dismissal', does not tend to occur against a good ball, otherwise the wicket goes down as good bowling rather than bad batting.
You can also get out to a good shot from the result of good fielding, if the commentator's suddenly say what a brilliant catch then that is down to the fielding and not a bad shot.
Quote:Grockle
“Both Somerset and Derbyshire need bigpoints from this one. It could be a decider should neither side have a particularly successful second half of the season.
Someone posted that this is a 'football six pointer'. We have to be on the right end of that or July and August could be extended squeeky bum time.
Somerset need confidence that the tide has turned before the T20 break. This is a side seriously under performing and the tide MUST turn in the LVC.
If Somerset cannot show what should be a significant difference in class against a struggling, newly promoted side then it indicates deep seated problems and increasing headaches for the still new Director of Cricket David Nosworthy.
It's time to turn press comments into reality and start to move back to First Division Championship form away from the mediocre and sometimes unexplainable rubbish we've been party to so far.”
Just to let you know Grockle that I am in total agreement with you, having witnessed some of it first hand already this year.
I wish it wasn't so, but sadly it is.
And Somerset certainly do NOT seem to have shown any difference in class compared to Derbyshire, let alone a significant one, thus far.
We're probably not going to win this match which would cap off an extraordinarily poor first half of the CC season.
And there don't really seem to be many signs that the club has any real answers to the malaise.
We're probably not going to win this match which would cap off an extraordinarily poor first half of the CC season.
And there don't really seem to be many signs that the club has any real answers to the malaise.
Quote:old boy!
Just in case anyone has forgotten we still have 4 wickets left AND a CC match consists of two innings each!! I can hear John Laurie's words from "Dads Army" being echoed here "DOOMED, DOOMED, WE'RE ALL DOOMED!"
How many times does this dads army Trollop get rolled out. Can we not think of something else.
Quote:Clarence Parker
But Trescothick gets out to "bad shots" too often in my opinion.
Not only does he open the batting, but also he is the captain of a side at the wrong end of the CC table who are desperate for a win. And today we are playing the only side below us in the table!
Does not that go through his mind before he plays the aforementioned "bad shots"?
Do you really want ALL that to go through MT's mind every time he faces a ball? Surely whatever his position in the side and the nature of the opposition, his fundamental task when at the wicket is to treat each ball on its merits; sometime he gets that wrong. You may say that that demonstrates lack of concentration on his part and you may be right to say so; but if he's got all those other things to concentrate on, his task is made even harder.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:Ronniesabre
How many times does this dads army Trollop get rolled out. Can we not think of something else.
Hello Ronnie! What woke you up?.
If you don't think the soothsayers prognostications on this site amount to "Doomed, Doomed We're all doomed" then I presume you are one of them! And as for you calling me a "strumpet" (trollop!! in Chambers Dictionary!).
That after being addressed as "tiresome" and " delusional" earlier on, I suppose that is what comes of trying to look for the positives in the Somerset County Cricket Club of which there are many!
One result we must wish for is that Somerset gets near or pass Derbyshire score and get them out cheaply in their second innings and we knock them off to win.
.
.
You may also be right, LoL, but captaining a cricket side (or I would assume being in charge of any other organisation come to that), does IMO require the incumbent to accept a great deal of responsibility, and thus a concerted effort on his part to lead by example.
What surely should be going through his mind is the fact that this is a very important fixture at this stage of the season.
If he gets out to a bad shot (and I have no personal evidence to suggest that he did), how can he chastise any other member of the team for doing likewise in similar circumstances?
Or perhaps that is not the way that Somerset CCC operates?
I don't know.
Perhaps I expect too much from a captain of our beloved County team?
What surely should be going through his mind is the fact that this is a very important fixture at this stage of the season.
If he gets out to a bad shot (and I have no personal evidence to suggest that he did), how can he chastise any other member of the team for doing likewise in similar circumstances?
Or perhaps that is not the way that Somerset CCC operates?
I don't know.
Perhaps I expect too much from a captain of our beloved County team?
Maybe he reminds them to get to fifty before getting out to a bad shot.
In that case, Nailsea, its not good enough!
Turn the 50's into hundreds and build further from there I would suggest.
Turn the 50's into hundreds and build further from there I would suggest.
No CP you don't expect too much from him, it is just that Marcus is Marcus and will always play the way he does and always has done - so talented that concentration and shot selection are not on his agenda really - he has always been one who will either get a lot of runs quickly or will get out - thankfully over the years the former has mostly been the case. The years catch up though do they not.
As the forum optimist Grocks and as your quoted scenario re us showing better class than Derby has not happened so far I would appreciate your opinion on what the " deep seated problems " are. Thanks in anticipation.
As the forum optimist Grocks and as your quoted scenario re us showing better class than Derby has not happened so far I would appreciate your opinion on what the " deep seated problems " are. Thanks in anticipation.
As usual old boy you are totally wrong!! I never called you a Trollop. I called the dads army words as Trollop but if you wish to call yourself that far be it from me to stop you!! And you also presume wrong too. Not having a great day are you? Ah well there's always tomorrow. I'm ever hopeful!!
[quote Clarence Parker]In that case, Nailsea, its not good enough!
Turn the 50's into hundreds and build further from there
So are you suggesting that he isn't doing this and that he doesn't wish his scores to be bigger
Turn the 50's into hundreds and build further from there
So are you suggesting that he isn't doing this and that he doesn't wish his scores to be bigger
Of course Tres wishes his scores were bigger and of course he's not going on from 50 to make tons.
I would suggest that captains in their hundreds have got out to bad shots (the excellent Strauss is a recent example) and perhaps they do so more than other players because of the extra things they have to think about. I am sure MT is no worse than other captains in this respect.
Interestingly, I heard a recent captain (I think it may have been Vaughan) say on TMS a couple of days ago that when he went out to bat he focused entirely on his batting and put the fact that he was captain right to the back of his mind. I would suggest that the captain's responsibilities are greater when fielding than when batting.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Interestingly, I heard a recent captain (I think it may have been Vaughan) say on TMS a couple of days ago that when he went out to bat he focused entirely on his batting and put the fact that he was captain right to the back of his mind. I would suggest that the captain's responsibilities are greater when fielding than when batting.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
We are not in as hopeless a position in this match as some may believe.
We may be facing a first innings deficit but it is not inconceivable that we will get near parity or even a small lead.
Potentially then, we have two bites of the cherry, as we can come out fired up with the aim of bowling them out cheaply or a contrived target could be arranged as Derbys need to win the game is as great as ours.
A draw is no real use to either side and at some point our much vaunted batting line-up has to come good, doesn't it?
We may be facing a first innings deficit but it is not inconceivable that we will get near parity or even a small lead.
Potentially then, we have two bites of the cherry, as we can come out fired up with the aim of bowling them out cheaply or a contrived target could be arranged as Derbys need to win the game is as great as ours.
A draw is no real use to either side and at some point our much vaunted batting line-up has to come good, doesn't it?
With Surrey surely no chance of winning in Leeds, then I'd be surprised if either Tres or Madsen would risk defeat in some kind of contrived run chase.
Yes, I still believe that we could win this game if the Gods are with us.
And I hope that we do, of course.
And I hope that we do, of course.
Today Tres took 110 balls (or "deliveries" in the vernacular of our own public address announcer) to score 50 and 36 of those runs came from 9 balls. He looked dreadfully short of confidence which seemed to spread to others. Could that be so? He must feel so much pressure. The one batsman, so far this innings, who batted with fluency and confidence was Hildreth. He batted like he could have saved us.
Quote:CP
Yes, I still believe that we could win this game if the Gods are with us.
Unfortunately one God has already forecasted the odds are stacked against us.
Fortunately he's only "A" God, which means there are other deities available!
When I captained the Llanelli town team I averaged 15.25 with the bat.
When I didn't captain the Llanelli town team I averaged 15.20 with the bat.
Proof indeed, if ever it was needed, that I was a truly dreadful batsman.
When I didn't captain the Llanelli town team I averaged 15.20 with the bat.
Proof indeed, if ever it was needed, that I was a truly dreadful batsman.
I'm no more the 'forum optimist' than you are the forum pessimist Rodders.
I'm just one of a number of posters who see a way out of this specific Championship situation in the time frame of this season rather than the meltdown scenario put forward by others where we spend seasons in the doldrums of the second division of the Championship.
With your massive experience of the county over many years I'm sure you are already fully aware of the issues this club has. I don't deny they are there or that they need action.
I simply deny that the only and inevitable result of this is Championship relegation in 2013 or that this was inevitable the day we abjectly lost at Horsham.
As anything else I post is 'nonsense' in your particular view I think I'll leave it there in response to your query. I am sure others will furnish you with answers that will fit your perspective and I'll respond to those should I feel the urge rather than bothering you directly with my 'tiresome' musings.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:07:34:02 by Grockle.
I'm just one of a number of posters who see a way out of this specific Championship situation in the time frame of this season rather than the meltdown scenario put forward by others where we spend seasons in the doldrums of the second division of the Championship.
With your massive experience of the county over many years I'm sure you are already fully aware of the issues this club has. I don't deny they are there or that they need action.
I simply deny that the only and inevitable result of this is Championship relegation in 2013 or that this was inevitable the day we abjectly lost at Horsham.
As anything else I post is 'nonsense' in your particular view I think I'll leave it there in response to your query. I am sure others will furnish you with answers that will fit your perspective and I'll respond to those should I feel the urge rather than bothering you directly with my 'tiresome' musings.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:07:34:02 by Grockle.
Horsham was dreadful but I believe it was the one game in which we played really well - Warks - that knocked the stuffing out of this team.
Played really well, worked really hard with the ball on a flat-track and yet still came up empty. It felt like a defeat for the players at the time and I don't think they've played nearly as well in any CC game since.
We're used to starting seasons poorly but it's normally only a couple of shaky (or occasionally abject) defeats followed by an almost linear improvement in performances that then heralds better results.
Played really well, worked really hard with the ball on a flat-track and yet still came up empty. It felt like a defeat for the players at the time and I don't think they've played nearly as well in any CC game since.
We're used to starting seasons poorly but it's normally only a couple of shaky (or occasionally abject) defeats followed by an almost linear improvement in performances that then heralds better results.
There ya go Rodders... ask AG :-) He'll tell you exactly what you want to know.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:09:26:26 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:09:26:26 by Grockle.
I've just seen highlights of the days play yesterday. If we get anything out if this game we will be doing well. Derby on top no doubt. Looks like its the type if pitch where a ball has your name on it eventually so prob better for trego and meschede to attack. Natural instinct anyway. Get close to their score as poss and then skittle them. That's my theory anyway!!
Let us hope that it works out that way Ronnie, but if not some people will be asking whether Trescothick got it wrong again after winning the toss.
Well there's probsbly one person of whom it could be said that that question may be uppermost in their mind, Clarence.
Realistically, though, when you have a situation where few of your bowlers are bowling consistently well and none of your batsmen are batting consistently well, then one's players will tend to make any decision that a captain makes look a bad one.
Even at Horsham, where the decision to bat looked highly debatable when it was made, you could make the case that we'd still have lost in ignominious fashion anyway - after all our batting in our second innings was unconvincing in the extreme.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:10:00:53 by AGod.
Realistically, though, when you have a situation where few of your bowlers are bowling consistently well and none of your batsmen are batting consistently well, then one's players will tend to make any decision that a captain makes look a bad one.
Even at Horsham, where the decision to bat looked highly debatable when it was made, you could make the case that we'd still have lost in ignominious fashion anyway - after all our batting in our second innings was unconvincing in the extreme.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:10:00:53 by AGod.
Quote:Ronniesabre
is it that much vaunted now Norwich?
The top eight have the ability, Ronnie, but they have only shown glimpses of it this season.
Realistically, three our four may need to stand up and be counted in the second knock.
[www.derby.gov.uk]
For anyone wondering about prospects of play at any point today, there is a webcam link from Derby above.
For any ornithologists, there is a bonus..
For anyone wondering about prospects of play at any point today, there is a webcam link from Derby above.
For any ornithologists, there is a bonus..
The Nos man has tweeted, all is now well in my disturbed little world;
"If you think life owes you something, you will be thinking for the rest of your life!"
My hero.
"If you think life owes you something, you will be thinking for the rest of your life!"
My hero.
Somebody asked me once - "What do you think of David Cameron?", to which I replied - "I try not to."
I suppose that's what he meant.
I suppose that's what he meant.
I continue to fervently hope that DN does not stand in front of the players and trot out these trite sayings as part of team-talks etc.
Hopefully, it's just a little something that he has developed for twitter.
Hopefully, it's just a little something that he has developed for twitter.
Is thinking for the rest of your life something that should be discouraged?
On the commentary on Friday the Radio Derby guy said that "their weather", is normally in Birmingham about 2 hours before Derby. So another way to gauge prospects of play might be to look at the rain come down at Edgbaston.
Still, if today's mainly washed out then it should be all but impossible for us to lose but Derbyshire could suffer Naxxar's "curse of the third innings", and leave the door ajar, possibly?
Still, if today's mainly washed out then it should be all but impossible for us to lose but Derbyshire could suffer Naxxar's "curse of the third innings", and leave the door ajar, possibly?
I hope that someone at the end of the season keeps in mind that it is damn difficult to even get yourself in the position of winning a four day game when the bloody weather only allows you on the pitch for 30% of the time!!
Maybe that is Marcus's fault at the toss as well (except for games against Yorkshire).
English domestic cricket is moving away from a level playing field because of the effect of this consistently awful weather.
Maybe that is Marcus's fault at the toss as well (except for games against Yorkshire).
English domestic cricket is moving away from a level playing field because of the effect of this consistently awful weather.
And, typically, there's not much cricket planned next week when the weather is prdicted to be excellent.
But you can't plan a fixture list around unpredictable weather systems can you. You just have to hope the weather will 'play ball' which it quite obviously isn't doing in the British Isles at the moment.
It doesn't seem like I've been away... the weather has been exactly the same in my last three returns... wet grey and cold.
It doesn't seem like I've been away... the weather has been exactly the same in my last three returns... wet grey and cold.
The weather could be the biggest barrier to us staying in div1 in my view. If we can't get on the park then what can you do. If others get a break and we do t it's mighty difficult. That's my greatest fear!!
Well, there are three of us in this at the minute (the relegation battle) and we can hardly complain that Surrey have been particularly favoured by the weather in Leeds.
Bottom line? The teams that go down deserve to go down. I don't think I can think of a single instance in any sports league for any sport that I follow where - over the course of a full season - that hasn't been the case.
Bottom line? The teams that go down deserve to go down. I don't think I can think of a single instance in any sports league for any sport that I follow where - over the course of a full season - that hasn't been the case.
Eight-legged creatures in the post, BJ.
One of my favourite drinks, commonly distilled from coconut juice, is to be found in such favourite countries as Lebanon and Sri Lanka. Given that I have not the smallest fear of its effects, I could be said that like BJ I endure arracknophobia.
(That's the best I can do to cheer myself on a rather cheerless day; I doubt it will be infectious)
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
One of my favourite drinks, commonly distilled from coconut juice, is to be found in such favourite countries as Lebanon and Sri Lanka. Given that I have not the smallest fear of its effects, I could be said that like BJ I endure arracknophobia.
(That's the best I can do to cheer myself on a rather cheerless day; I doubt it will be infectious)
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
That may be the case Agod but even you would have to concede that where the margins are tight then the weather could be more decisive in cricket than any of the other spots you may follow
I'm afraid that whatever the forecast, heavy rain over Somerset is a near-certainty for much of the next fortnight. This link explains why: [www.tauntonthespians.org.uk]
Nailsea - if the margins are so tight that the weather is likely to make a significant difference?
Again, we'd only have ourselves to blame for having been so poor that we're right down amongst the dead men.
Personally, I will not be buying any weather-related excuses if we do go down.
Because weather did not cause us to get well beaten at home by Middx or slaughtered at Horsham. Nor did it cause us to lose at Durham. The weather allowed us the chance to compete in, and win, all of those games and we were not good enough to do so.
Again, we'd only have ourselves to blame for having been so poor that we're right down amongst the dead men.
Personally, I will not be buying any weather-related excuses if we do go down.
Because weather did not cause us to get well beaten at home by Middx or slaughtered at Horsham. Nor did it cause us to lose at Durham. The weather allowed us the chance to compete in, and win, all of those games and we were not good enough to do so.
mikeindex - the forecast is good for you. I say 'you', as i assume you are involved?
Just thought I would reinforce comment from cricketharris re Marcus lack of confidence yesterday. I found watching him after lunch quite painful. If I ruled the world I would put PT to open with him in the CC a la YB40, they have an understanding which seems missing between others. But what do I know, tear it apart guys!
Good afternoon, Casomer... Any sign of anything drier on the way? (if you are still up there)
How about the rest of the batsmen - did their confidence levels look low?
I would assume that pretty much the whole lot must be shorn of confidence with the bat by now.
As for your opening idea, maybe it would help MT to bat in the CC with somebody that is able to score more freely early on than NC prefers to or Arul Suppiah has proven capable of this season?
I've no idea what we are intending to do with the overseas spot, post T20, but I wonder if the club will be tempted to spend big bucks on a proven world-class batsman, should a gap in the international schedule permit such a stint.
How about the rest of the batsmen - did their confidence levels look low?
I would assume that pretty much the whole lot must be shorn of confidence with the bat by now.
As for your opening idea, maybe it would help MT to bat in the CC with somebody that is able to score more freely early on than NC prefers to or Arul Suppiah has proven capable of this season?
I've no idea what we are intending to do with the overseas spot, post T20, but I wonder if the club will be tempted to spend big bucks on a proven world-class batsman, should a gap in the international schedule permit such a stint.
I deduce that you don't suffer from hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia, LoL.
Inspection in 40 minutes.
Whether that means it's stopped raining, or whether that's to call off play for the day, not sure.
Whether that means it's stopped raining, or whether that's to call off play for the day, not sure.
Down the road at Trent Bridge they inspected at 1:45 and have scheduled a start for 30 mins later i.e 2:15.
Quote:AGod
"The riskiest thing you can possibly do is to not take risks."
Or to split an infinitive.
Maybe infinitives are not on the syllabus in Port Elizabeth, or wherever DN went to school.
You know who doing his best to drag Surrey out of trouble and at quite a rate of knots as well !
Quote:rodders12
You know who doing his best to drag Surrey out of trouble and at quite a rate of knots as well !
I'm pretty sure the last thing on his mind is dragging Surrey out of trouble.
Australia's summer just gets worse. KP back and into form.
Their A team - containing several members of the Ashes squad, barely scraped past Gloucs.
Their A team - containing several members of the Ashes squad, barely scraped past Gloucs.
Would like to see us giving this a thrash, with a view to getting them back in for a fair portion tonight, when bowling conditions maybe helpful.
Might as well declare with Pete out. Kirby is really a blocker and unless we're in totally negative mind-set we should be thinking can we give Derbyshire a hard time before the close with the ball?
Do we now think that our boilers could have found the accuracy to bowl derbyshire out cheaply then Agod
A lot of soul searching to be done here. This is a replica of the Durham game when Marcus made the daft comment about expectations of being bowled out on a seaming wicket. The batting has no confidence whatsoever and its sad to see!! Derby have played better than us here and we have to hit gh hard now.
This is probably the first CC game this season where Derbyshire have outplayed anyone, which speaks volumes I'm afraid.
According to those figures that Grockle posted, this Derbyshire attack had taken only 36 wickets in CC cricket this season - but it didn't sound as though they had many problems rolling up our ten.
According to those figures that Grockle posted, this Derbyshire attack had taken only 36 wickets in CC cricket this season - but it didn't sound as though they had many problems rolling up our ten.
Need to get Alf on, quick-smart, as Overton leaking too many runs in a low-scoring game.
Quote:Nailsea_Fizz
Do we now think that our boilers could have found the accuracy to bowl derbyshire out cheaply then Agod
Perhaps they will need to work up a head of steam, Nailsea.
Alf might get wickets when he comes on.
But Derbyshire are probably already half-way to a winning lead, given our hapless batting.
But Derbyshire are probably already half-way to a winning lead, given our hapless batting.
Old Boy - here you are. Despite your denial, here's one of your various posts in which you have indeed certainly been critical of the pace bowling this season:
-------------------
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2013 18:45
Quote:
Nailsea_Fizz
Good grief some people can't wait for a bad performance before they have a dig and a rant. It makes i laugh
You may well be right. However, I believe I support Somerset as much as anyone without going OTT. In this match and others the bowling - at least the seam bowling - has been pretty awful with apparently only one plan - to avoid bowling to a good length because I suspect we have caught the "dot ball" disease from the short format, where they are more important than wickets! The contrast in the two bowling styles with Middlesex orchestrated by two ex-England seamers who knew what a good length was - is so obvious. I think the wicket clearly had a lot of life in it, and that probably accounts for Marcus putting them in - unfortunately all our seamers didn't know how to bowl on it.
-------------------
Posted by: old boy! (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2013 18:45
Quote:
Nailsea_Fizz
Good grief some people can't wait for a bad performance before they have a dig and a rant. It makes i laugh
You may well be right. However, I believe I support Somerset as much as anyone without going OTT. In this match and others the bowling - at least the seam bowling - has been pretty awful with apparently only one plan - to avoid bowling to a good length because I suspect we have caught the "dot ball" disease from the short format, where they are more important than wickets! The contrast in the two bowling styles with Middlesex orchestrated by two ex-England seamers who knew what a good length was - is so obvious. I think the wicket clearly had a lot of life in it, and that probably accounts for Marcus putting them in - unfortunately all our seamers didn't know how to bowl on it.
Quote:Mike TA1
One result we must wish for is that Somerset gets near or pass Derbyshire score and get them out cheaply in their second innings and we knock them off to win.
.
So far this has in part happened now lets get Derbyshire out cheaply.
Quote:AGod
Need to get Alf on, quick-smart, as Overton leaking too many runs in a low-scoring game.
Yes. Four an over is an absolute disgrace.
Quote:Clarence ParkerQuote:Nailsea_Fizz
Do we now think that our boilers could have found the accuracy to bowl derbyshire out cheaply then Agod
Perhaps they will need to work up a head of steam, Nailsea.
Oops Hee Hee
FE - it's 5 an over when you add in the four byes from half-tracker bouncer that gave Barrow no chance. Yes, it goes against Barrow in the book, but when that happen it's the bowler giving the runs away, IMO.
By the same token, in the first innings the scorecard says 3.5 an over, but there were also five no-balls which leaked a further ten runs, so really 4.5 per over.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:17:52:24 by AGod.
By the same token, in the first innings the scorecard says 3.5 an over, but there were also five no-balls which leaked a further ten runs, so really 4.5 per over.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:17:52:24 by AGod.
Fair enough re. the byes.
But you're wrong about the no-balls. They're included in the bowling analysis.
But you're wrong about the no-balls. They're included in the bowling analysis.
With Surrey having declared 100 behind is there a pact do you think or are they tempting Yorkshire?
Fair enough, I'd forgotten that that had, I think, been changed a while ago?
But I certainly wasn't suggesting it was "a disgrace", or anything of the sort, just that on "sporting type" tracks every run is precious.
From what I've heard from the commentary, this is basically a seaming, bouncy track.
But I certainly wasn't suggesting it was "a disgrace", or anything of the sort, just that on "sporting type" tracks every run is precious.
From what I've heard from the commentary, this is basically a seaming, bouncy track.
That got me thinking when did No-Balls first appear against the bowlers figures.
In the Somerset's year book it was for the season of 2000.
In the Somerset's year book it was for the season of 2000.
Thomas was dropped too as was trego last night. That's gained us 50 runs. Could have been much worse. And all this from 101 for 1. Horsham and yorks revisited!! Tomorrow is now massive for us. Let's hope nos has the right tweet to set the tone!!
Apart from Essex we must have the most collapsible batting line-up in the land.
And it's all down to what is said about the players on this message board too.
Quote:Ronniesabre
Thomas was dropped too as was trego last night. That's gained us 50 runs. Could have been much worse.
... and it could be said we gained another forty runs after Trescothick was apparently reprieved when "run out" for ten.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
No Worries AG, I was told at the ground the other day I was wrong in saying that a minimum of sixteen overs must be bowled in the last hour of the forth day of a CC match.
A chap in front opened a book for 2008 and in it it said 20 overs in the last hour, on leaving the ground Richard Walsh also said 20 overs so I thought I must have been wrong, I couldn't understand how I had made that mistake!
I have just looked at the ECB rules and it says -
16.2.5 On the last day, if any of the minimum of 80 overs, or
as recalculated, have not been bowled when one hour
of scheduled playing time remains, the last hour of the
match for the purposes of Playing Condition 16.2.6
shall be the hour immediately following the completion
of those overs.
16.2.6 Law 16.6, 16.7, 16.8 will apply except that a minimum
of 16 overs shall be bowled in the last hour
So I was correct, because I know I don't know everything I assumed I made a mistake.
A chap in front opened a book for 2008 and in it it said 20 overs in the last hour, on leaving the ground Richard Walsh also said 20 overs so I thought I must have been wrong, I couldn't understand how I had made that mistake!
I have just looked at the ECB rules and it says -
16.2.5 On the last day, if any of the minimum of 80 overs, or
as recalculated, have not been bowled when one hour
of scheduled playing time remains, the last hour of the
match for the purposes of Playing Condition 16.2.6
shall be the hour immediately following the completion
of those overs.
16.2.6 Law 16.6, 16.7, 16.8 will apply except that a minimum
of 16 overs shall be bowled in the last hour
So I was correct, because I know I don't know everything I assumed I made a mistake.
Has not always been 16?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:20:25:19 by Ronniesabre.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:23:20:25:19 by Ronniesabre.
Back from the first 3 days up in Derby.
Pitch was good for bowling and have to say they bowled better on it (or maybe we batted worse)
Have to say though, first day i am not being over the top to say we must have had 50+ shouts, be it play and misses or lbw shouts, it was often 2 or 3 per over, whether we were moving it too much or they weren't good enough to get a bat on it.
We could easily have got them for 130/150, as it was they got far too many and now we (in my opinion) can't win.
Realistically neither team can now win properly.
If they try they will have to bat on and give themselves what, 45/50 overs to do it?
For us we'd probably have to bowl them out by lunch for no more then 140/150, to leave us 200ish off 55ish, still a huge effort on that pitch.
I strongly feel Tres should try and fudge a finish, offer them compo and kiesy to come up with a 70 over chase.
Both teams can't afford a draw, it has gone past worrying about maybe Derbyshire getting the 16pts, i'd happily risk that for the chance for us to win.
It will be tough say 280 off 70 but i think we have to try, a 7 point draw really is little use to us with just 7 games then left to go.
Pitch was good for bowling and have to say they bowled better on it (or maybe we batted worse)
Have to say though, first day i am not being over the top to say we must have had 50+ shouts, be it play and misses or lbw shouts, it was often 2 or 3 per over, whether we were moving it too much or they weren't good enough to get a bat on it.
We could easily have got them for 130/150, as it was they got far too many and now we (in my opinion) can't win.
Realistically neither team can now win properly.
If they try they will have to bat on and give themselves what, 45/50 overs to do it?
For us we'd probably have to bowl them out by lunch for no more then 140/150, to leave us 200ish off 55ish, still a huge effort on that pitch.
I strongly feel Tres should try and fudge a finish, offer them compo and kiesy to come up with a 70 over chase.
Both teams can't afford a draw, it has gone past worrying about maybe Derbyshire getting the 16pts, i'd happily risk that for the chance for us to win.
It will be tough say 280 off 70 but i think we have to try, a 7 point draw really is little use to us with just 7 games then left to go.
It would be a bit brave of them to declare with 50 overs or so to go, I suppose.
But on this track how confident could we be of our lot being able to bat out 50 overs?
But on this track how confident could we be of our lot being able to bat out 50 overs?
I wouldn't be confident of us chasing anything, literally.
Given that pitch and our lack of form and confidence i think even another 50 to make 135 would be very dodgy.
Realistically they are going to probably get another 100 or so by lunch.
So for however many wicket they should be about 200 ahead with about 64 overs left.
To me that would be too many already, and if they bat on down to 55 left then the rate will definitely be out of hand.
To survive mid afternoon onwards any amount of time could be dodgy, even 30-35 so be interesting to see how they/we approach the day.
I don't expect either captain to be brave enough so guess first session will be allowed to pan out.
I'm guessing it will be maybe 150-6 and then it'll peter out mid late afternoon
Given that pitch and our lack of form and confidence i think even another 50 to make 135 would be very dodgy.
Realistically they are going to probably get another 100 or so by lunch.
So for however many wicket they should be about 200 ahead with about 64 overs left.
To me that would be too many already, and if they bat on down to 55 left then the rate will definitely be out of hand.
To survive mid afternoon onwards any amount of time could be dodgy, even 30-35 so be interesting to see how they/we approach the day.
I don't expect either captain to be brave enough so guess first session will be allowed to pan out.
I'm guessing it will be maybe 150-6 and then it'll peter out mid late afternoon
Andy Hurry on the county site seems to imply that depends hw many Derby set. If we thought this was a 40 over job we could get 200. If they bat 50 over that should see them 225 ahead....which is more that we just made so might be tempting for both skippers. Add Surrey into the mix and we have to try something.
He'll have to clarify but I think the 'thought we weren't 'suggests otherwise.
Madsen will have the dilemma of the paper Somerset batting line-up vs the grass one.
On paper you'd be crazy to leave our batting line up 220 or so in 55 overs.
On grass (this season)? You'd be crazy not to take the chance.
Madsen will have the dilemma of the paper Somerset batting line-up vs the grass one.
On paper you'd be crazy to leave our batting line up 220 or so in 55 overs.
On grass (this season)? You'd be crazy not to take the chance.
I suspect that the only way either side can win today is through Derbyshire being bombed out.
Edit: don't know where that "bombed" came from from? I meant to write "bowled" and I'm off to the psychiatrist at once to find out what's happening to what's left of my brain.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:10:22:25 by Loyal of Lhasa..
Edit: don't know where that "bombed" came from from? I meant to write "bowled" and I'm off to the psychiatrist at once to find out what's happening to what's left of my brain.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:10:22:25 by Loyal of Lhasa..
LoL - I'd like to think we will bowl Derbyshire out at some point. Bounce and seam movement, rather than swing, seem to have been the main issues so i'm not sure that better weather will make all that much difference.
Indeed, if it's warmer today then swing might be added to the batsmen's difficulties?
Indeed, if it's warmer today then swing might be added to the batsmen's difficulties?
Derby aren't going to give us a sniff of winning this. Should they gift us a victory they are then completely adrift, a draw maintains the status quo, which keeps them in with a shout. If we are to win we will have to earn it by bowling them out by just after lunch.
I actually meant both!! Only way I can see us not being in this game is to do what Railboy describes above. Even then it would be tricky on current form.
I think we've got a 50 percent chance of bowling Derbyshire out for a lead of, say, 220.
But even in bright sunshine, I think there's also a 50 percent chance of us getting bowled out and losing the match vs maybe a 30 percent chance of a win and 20 percent of clinging on for a draw.
But even in bright sunshine, I think there's also a 50 percent chance of us getting bowled out and losing the match vs maybe a 30 percent chance of a win and 20 percent of clinging on for a draw.
Have you consulted BJ about those very precise odds?
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
BJ said there's a 99.9 percent chance of victory and we'll be foiled only if you fail to ensure that he gets a flake next time you buy him a Mr Whippy.
That's such a good start I might even buy BJ a tub to go with his 99; he needs a bath.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Yeah we'll obviously gift the game to Derbyshire and go on to lose to the Aussies for another depressing week in the Somerset summer.
Anyone got the odds on rain for the next Championship game or is it time to start moaning and complaining about our chances in the T20.
Maybe we should dwell on the fact that T20 isn't really cricket, accept we're crud at it, wave all our games to the opposition rather than embarrass ourselves and just spend the month on intensive nets for the four day games after it.
That of course would only be just so that we enter the second division next year with at least a modicum of belief that we can play the game albeit appallingly badly on every occasion? And as a last hurrah for some of the players who will be victims of the wholesale cuts our newly appointed DoC will be making as he brings in all his mates and acquaintances - if he survives the summer.
It's a shame really because all these other sides are just rolling over and saying 'beat us we're waiting for you to do it' and we can't even do that because of our terrible captain who has no sensible judgement, can no longer bat for toffee and is leading a batting order who have no skill and a bowling unit who can't bowl in a straight line, even on pitches made specially for us to beat the opposition on.
And the squad are all sooo old, well except for those who are too young and none of them are in the middle, which, as we all know is where they must be to be any good and the internationals aren't coming and we need loan players to fill the gaps.
Meanwhile the DoC is useless, even on Twitter and well don't get me started on Andy Hurry!! Then there's the ground staff at home, and the catering and stewarding is just awful....and ...and ...and
Sorry. I've got to do some gardening so I thought I'd get all my posts for the next few hours in at one time to make sure I could get on without having to stop to feel bad on a semi regular basis.
Apologies if I missed your particular personal misery about 2013
Got to laugh though haven't ya?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:11:36:34 by Grockle.
Anyone got the odds on rain for the next Championship game or is it time to start moaning and complaining about our chances in the T20.
Maybe we should dwell on the fact that T20 isn't really cricket, accept we're crud at it, wave all our games to the opposition rather than embarrass ourselves and just spend the month on intensive nets for the four day games after it.
That of course would only be just so that we enter the second division next year with at least a modicum of belief that we can play the game albeit appallingly badly on every occasion? And as a last hurrah for some of the players who will be victims of the wholesale cuts our newly appointed DoC will be making as he brings in all his mates and acquaintances - if he survives the summer.
It's a shame really because all these other sides are just rolling over and saying 'beat us we're waiting for you to do it' and we can't even do that because of our terrible captain who has no sensible judgement, can no longer bat for toffee and is leading a batting order who have no skill and a bowling unit who can't bowl in a straight line, even on pitches made specially for us to beat the opposition on.
And the squad are all sooo old, well except for those who are too young and none of them are in the middle, which, as we all know is where they must be to be any good and the internationals aren't coming and we need loan players to fill the gaps.
Meanwhile the DoC is useless, even on Twitter and well don't get me started on Andy Hurry!! Then there's the ground staff at home, and the catering and stewarding is just awful....and ...and ...and
Sorry. I've got to do some gardening so I thought I'd get all my posts for the next few hours in at one time to make sure I could get on without having to stop to feel bad on a semi regular basis.
Apologies if I missed your particular personal misery about 2013
Got to laugh though haven't ya?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:11:36:34 by Grockle.
Australia won't be laughing because they may very well lose at Taunton, which would cap things off nicely for them.
LoL - might have to make it two flakes and multiple scoops of different flavours...
I fear that Godleman's career may be coming to an end after a very promising start. He's with his third county now and a season's average of 16.85 so far cannot be what is required of an opening batsman.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
No, but sadly it would get him into our team to open with Tres when NC is away!!!
Clare's a hitter and one wonders if Derbys might try that tack?
LoL - are memories of heroism in Adelaide flooding back here?
LoL - are memories of heroism in Adelaide flooding back here?
Odds on the draw must be receding rapidly?
Maybe down to only 25 percent or so?
Maybe down to only 25 percent or so?
Wesley John is still there, he'll see us off. (Sorry came in for a well deserved drink)
Wake up, BJ. There's an overloaded icecream van at the door.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Chances of a draw must be down to 19.25% by now.!!!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:11:51:11 by Roger ivanhoe.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:11:51:11 by Roger ivanhoe.
Could someone at the ground or listening to the commentary explain what is happening? Has the track turned into a minefield or is it swinging round corners?
Just maybe are we bowling well and have a shout of bowling them out for a score we might just get?
Just maybe are we bowling well and have a shout of bowling them out for a score we might just get?
Bit worried that Messrs Leaning and Balance are part of a Yorks collapse this morning...
145 to win in 2 sessions and 20 minutes before lunch...
I think if we manage this, we could well move above Surrey and Warks.
Season defining sessions?
Come on lads!
I think if we manage this, we could well move above Surrey and Warks.
Season defining sessions?
Come on lads!
Quote:Mike TA1Quote:Mike TA1
One result we must wish for is that Somerset gets near or pass Derbyshire score and get them out cheaply in their second innings and we knock them off to win.
.
So far this has in part happened now lets get Derbyshire out cheaply.
Part two completed, now for part three.
It's the day that might decide if we have a chance of getting out of the mire.
WSM, an eye witness to the first three days, said he wouldn't necessarily rely on us to get 135, so 145 very unlikely to be a picnic, I'd think.
WSM, an eye witness to the first three days, said he wouldn't necessarily rely on us to get 135, so 145 very unlikely to be a picnic, I'd think.
Excellent morning - I'd like to think this is because they've all had a good team talking-to and collective bucking up of ideas, and the bowlers were brilliant backed up by sharp fielding - rather than just a dodgy pitch and adverse weather conditions for batting.
Hope it won't be like watching England chase 130 yesterday...!
Hope it won't be like watching England chase 130 yesterday...!
So before anything worse happens, lets give thanks to our bowlers and fielders doing a great job. I do believe somebody said Meschede was only any good in the CB40 format!!! Now who said it???
I am now thoroughly confused because cricinfo tells me Nick is 7 not out, a single and a 6!!!
Bloody hell, That Kirby bloke...just when you think you've finally managed to predict his career is over......
Please don't forget that if we were Derbyshire supporters some of us would say that this morning's play consisted entirely of inept batting.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Yes Grockle, there is somebody on here that keep saying Kirby should be dropped.
he needs to be more consistent!!! This is s good way to start, someone reported hus eyes were birrlling last night he was that fired uop,
Hopefully a measured attack on the bowling will get us to this target this afternoon.could be massive.
Hopefully a measured attack on the bowling will get us to this target this afternoon.could be massive.
Quote:AGod
It's the day that might decide if we have a chance of getting out of the mire.
WSM, an eye witness to the first three days, said he wouldn't necessarily rely on us to get 135, so 145 very unlikely to be a picnic, I'd think.
That's right AG strangle the hope before it sprouts... don't let a decent morning's performance doing exactly what we all wanted the side to do let you take your grip off the misery you cling to.
Still time for it to all go wrong and WSM has predicted it so it must happen. You do know this is Day 4 don't you and things may (possibly) have changed?
Ahh but you're right, they will probably have stayed the same and a side so desperate for points will lose their focus and throw it away, going down to inevitable defeat.
I'm off back to the garden so that the euphoria of possible victory is not snatched away in the middle hours of the afternoon by another absolutely predictable and expected batting calamity. I'll just carry on expecting the disaster that a true realistic 'fan' ought to.
Still laughing though (it holds the tears of despair back)
If we lose will it be good Derby batting and bowling or awful Somerset batting and bowling? If we win will it be bad Derby batting and bowling or brilliant Somerset batting and bowling?
I MUST KNOW PLEASE!!!
I MUST KNOW PLEASE!!!
Best session of the county stuff all season.
Well done lads.
Now for session two.
Well done lads.
Now for session two.
Yes, Grockle, the afternoon is meant to be sunny so that may be a beneficial change in conditions. Otherwise, though, this morning's events do not exactly suggest that the track has become more benign.
Got to be in with a very good shout after some great bowling this morning. Come on batsmen do your bit - pretty please !!
Oh I must agree with you wholeheartedly AG. We are in for a severe disappointment if we expect to win this one.
In the words of Sir Alex F this is becoming S....B.. time!! Concentrate lads.
Well played Mr Clare. Just what you need when your county is in trouble. It would have been a damn good day to watch a bit of county cricket.
Phew!!
We do make it difficult for ourselves!!!
HOWEVER - we have won our first 4 day game of the season despite all the doomsayers! May have turned our 4 day season around in time. May have saved Nos' future! (Only kidding!)
Very well done to the bowlers for making it even possible. This morning the first hour turned the game in our favour. Three valuable wickets from Craig Mesh and Kirbs shows that he is not over the hill yet!!
Small celebration tonight maybe?!
We do make it difficult for ourselves!!!
HOWEVER - we have won our first 4 day game of the season despite all the doomsayers! May have turned our 4 day season around in time. May have saved Nos' future! (Only kidding!)
Very well done to the bowlers for making it even possible. This morning the first hour turned the game in our favour. Three valuable wickets from Craig Mesh and Kirbs shows that he is not over the hill yet!!
Small celebration tonight maybe?!
I'd just like to say, before the usual suspects arrive, that our flaky batting in the second innings demonstrated that we are incapable of winning another match and will be bottom of Division Two by 20th August.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
We haven't heard from our main doom and gloom merchant on this thread since 13.36 - I NEED TO KNOW WHY??
Well done the lads - @ friggin last !
More of the same please and special mention for the youngsters who came good when it counted !
More of the same please and special mention for the youngsters who came good when it counted !
Thanks Mike! Makes good reading. And Surrey aren't going to win either.
Serious face. How often do sides chasing small targets nearly get it very very wrong?
As I said above - well played Mr Clare.
BUT this is only the start of anything remotely good. It presently puts us in 6th and gives us that bit of belief before the break in the CC1 season but we do need to come back ready to push upwards
Never mind if this has put an inconvenient ray of sunshine in your misery. I'm sure this side will give you lots more to whinge about before this season is over.
As I said above - well played Mr Clare.
BUT this is only the start of anything remotely good. It presently puts us in 6th and gives us that bit of belief before the break in the CC1 season but we do need to come back ready to push upwards
Never mind if this has put an inconvenient ray of sunshine in your misery. I'm sure this side will give you lots more to whinge about before this season is over.
What a wonderful day for those of us described as "tiresome" and " delusioned" and perhaps "a trollop?". Even better for Marcus and his mates!!
Yes Gooner but it doesn't tend to work like that.
The lower the target the more squeak in the bum.
The lower the target the more squeak in the bum.
I'm with Mike and Sloop - phew - now I can come out from behind my metaphorical sofa and enjoy the rest of the day!
As LoL says, it is of course a waste of time and energy when we could've been in the nets preparing to play Div Two cricket next season...
Onwards and (most definitely) upwards!
As LoL says, it is of course a waste of time and energy when we could've been in the nets preparing to play Div Two cricket next season...
Onwards and (most definitely) upwards!
Old Boy as I said the other day if you consider that word to be appropriate then "if the cap fits"
There is a lot of sarcasm and irony on this board at the minute and you havent quite mastered it yet.
A good win today by the way..........even better with Surrey unlikely to win!!!
There is a lot of sarcasm and irony on this board at the minute and you havent quite mastered it yet.
A good win today by the way..........even better with Surrey unlikely to win!!!
Major league relief to get a win.
Well done Compton and bowlers. Obviously bowler-friendly conditions but Derbys batting strength, unlike their bowling strength is reasonably good.
Run-chase predictably difficult and heavily reliant on the England man and suggesting still demons in the minds of various members of our 'Jenga', batting line-up.
Well done Compton and bowlers. Obviously bowler-friendly conditions but Derbys batting strength, unlike their bowling strength is reasonably good.
Run-chase predictably difficult and heavily reliant on the England man and suggesting still demons in the minds of various members of our 'Jenga', batting line-up.
Quote:Ronniesabre
There is a lot of sarcasm and irony on this board at the minute and you havent quite mastered it yet.
I call it banter, which I thought was compulsory on this site.
Now let's see if there are any plucky Brits left at Wimbledon.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Don't you want to stick around and get Ron to tell us which is sarcasm and which is irony LoL?
I can't tell any more.
(By the way it's 4:30 on Day 1 - there are no plucky Brits left - Irony?)
I can't tell any more.
(By the way it's 4:30 on Day 1 - there are no plucky Brits left - Irony?)
Quote:Ronniesabre
There is a lot of sarcasm and irony on this board at the minute and you havent quite mastered it yet.
Hello Ronnie,
Nice to see you are back on board!. I admit, I'm not a master of sarcasm and irony - it is probably what happens when you become tiresome and deluded!
As you say! We will agree - a great win!! And I rate Meschede the find of the season - when he hits form with his batting, with Trego we could have a tremendous lower middle order.
Gonna need him if the front middle order can't do more than about 10 between them.
But pointz iz pointz
But pointz iz pointz
That's a slap in the face for Compton which is ill deserved in my opinion. He has basically done what Flower asked of him - get runs in county cricket.
It seems the Vaughan/Boycott lobby has worked again! Doh!!
It seems the Vaughan/Boycott lobby has worked again! Doh!!
Yep, feel sorry for him. Although I'm sure he'll do well, Root hasn't really been tested against quick/swinging bowling in internationals much. However, it's presumably more the number 6 (Bairstow) that Compo's in a battle with, and I think he's very unlucky to lose out.
With the way things are going for Jos and the role he's being asked to play might not be a huge surprise if we soon have all of our internationals available full-time - Bairstow might be handed Jos's job?
I presume Nick will play against the Australians this week.Could be interesting.
To all you doubting *****,if you shout loud enough, the tide will begin to turn, even if what's washing around your feet is, as at Weston, a ****** brown colour ;-)
I'm not surprised about the Compo/England situation. I've had a feeling there are quite a few who dont fancy him.
All he can do is be proud of what he did achieve in India/NZ, and then score a shed load of runs for Somerset!
Edited by moderator
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:20:18:42 by Grockle.
I'm not surprised about the Compo/England situation. I've had a feeling there are quite a few who dont fancy him.
All he can do is be proud of what he did achieve in India/NZ, and then score a shed load of runs for Somerset!
Edited by moderator
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:20:18:42 by Grockle.
I oringinally thought that was supposed to be a rude word, Edinburgh, though I now wonder (bearing in mind what follows) if it's intended to be Canutes...
I said when Nick was first picked (as did others here) that it seemed that his England career was destined, even from the start, to be a brief one, almost irrespective of what he achieved.
And I fear that Jos will not be shown the patience shown to some others.
I would not be surprised if we were at full strength for the second stanza of the CC.
And I fear that Jos will not be shown the patience shown to some others.
I would not be surprised if we were at full strength for the second stanza of the CC.
Cnut the Great[2] (Old Norse: Knútr inn ríki;[3] c. 985 or 995 – 12 November 1035), more commonly known as Canute, was a king of Denmark, England, Norway, and parts of Sweden, together often referred to as the Anglo-Scandinavian or North Sea Empire.
Superb, never has the Cricinfo app on my phone been put to better use...even the doctor got interested at one stage....most odd, for a Welshman.
I hope the doom and gloom brigade are back from picking up their rubbish, for I have a nice slice of humble pie waiting for them all...warm or cold.
What do you think?
I hope the doom and gloom brigade are back from picking up their rubbish, for I have a nice slice of humble pie waiting for them all...warm or cold.
What do you think?
Well played Somerset.
A well - deserved and much needed win. Still a long way to go this season, so let us hope beyond hope that this is a turning point in our fortunes.
A well - deserved and much needed win. Still a long way to go this season, so let us hope beyond hope that this is a turning point in our fortunes.
I always enjoy the contents of an ice-cream van, though am none too partial to the crushed nuts and hundreds and thousands.
As for today, what more can we say about the magnificent Steve Kirby?
My giddyaunt, say what you like about him, but that man would walk through brick walls for this county.
Here's to the second half of the season, and the final push, for greatness.
As for today, what more can we say about the magnificent Steve Kirby?
My giddyaunt, say what you like about him, but that man would walk through brick walls for this county.
Here's to the second half of the season, and the final push, for greatness.
Just got home from a pulsating four days of cricket which I thoroughly enjoyed.
I won't go into all the details but on Thursday I made my mind up not to go because of the lousy forecasting on this thread, but decided to go in the end.
A brilliant result which we made hard work of but a win's a win.
I thought the fact that we were bowled out in the first innings was a godsend because it put the decision making on Derbyshire's shoulders rather than Marcus deciding when to declare.
In the end we put on a marvellous bowling display today.
Two big pluses for me was Alex's keeping and the run out by Jamie this morning was superb.
I met North Berwick John for the first time a spent a really enjoyable time with him and Casomer and the other usual suspects.
All in all a wonderful four days.
I won't go into all the details but on Thursday I made my mind up not to go because of the lousy forecasting on this thread, but decided to go in the end.
A brilliant result which we made hard work of but a win's a win.
I thought the fact that we were bowled out in the first innings was a godsend because it put the decision making on Derbyshire's shoulders rather than Marcus deciding when to declare.
In the end we put on a marvellous bowling display today.
Two big pluses for me was Alex's keeping and the run out by Jamie this morning was superb.
I met North Berwick John for the first time a spent a really enjoyable time with him and Casomer and the other usual suspects.
All in all a wonderful four days.
Glad you enjoyed rob!! Wish it was me. Old boy at least we agree on that. If meschede can get a couple of score I also agree we have a player in the making.
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa.Quote:Ronniesabre
There is a lot of sarcasm and irony on this board at the minute and you havent quite mastered it yet.
I call it banter, which I thought was compulsory on this site.
Now let's see if there are any plucky Brits left at Wimbledon.
Some people can't accept other people's "banter" though. That's what causes the issues . Some see it as such and some don't!!
re Compton and Root. I read somewhere, can't remember where that against the new ball in tests (albeit the second new ball in an innings) Root has faced a total of about 6 balls in which he was dismissed twice.
If the 'banter' is not to a person's taste there are a number of things they can do about it;
Ignore it - seems the best idea. If it is not acceptable it will be removed by the moderator - but that is the site's decision.
Identify it and complain VIA PM - if it causes personal offence.
Responding to it when taking something personally is probably not the best way to react, though there are those who struggle to avoid this form of action.
Counting to 10 in this situation before responding or typing the post and then deleting it are probably good strategies as well
Fora are such fun and believe it or not we don't do badly here. But there are those who can handle them and those who can't. Ain't it always the same.
Ignore it - seems the best idea. If it is not acceptable it will be removed by the moderator - but that is the site's decision.
Identify it and complain VIA PM - if it causes personal offence.
Responding to it when taking something personally is probably not the best way to react, though there are those who struggle to avoid this form of action.
Counting to 10 in this situation before responding or typing the post and then deleting it are probably good strategies as well
Fora are such fun and believe it or not we don't do badly here. But there are those who can handle them and those who can't. Ain't it always the same.
Quote:Big Jim
I always enjoy the contents of an ice-cream van, though am none too partial to the crushed nuts and hundreds and thousands.
As for today, what more can we say about the magnificent Steve Kirby?
My giddyaunt, say what you like about him, but that man would walk through brick walls for this county.
Here's to the second half of the season, and the final push, for greatness.
You'd certainly want him in the trenches with you. A fighter to the very end.
Very pleasing victory.. having suffered from being at Edgbaston yesterday this has cheered me up somewhat.
With NRC back in the team we can go for that late surge and pinch the title.
Totally agree with your summary of the forum Grockles and although you and I have our spats from time to time I would happily buy you a cider whenever I met you and believe you would say the same about myself !
The problem with banter on a blog is that the reader can't judge the writer's disposition - tongue-in-cheek/ironic/sarcastic/pure anger.
It is wise for writers to re-read their posts before hitting the Send key. As it is impossible to retract after that moment!
Personally I take Grockle's advice to simply ignore what I perceive to be sarcasm. Also there are certain posters (but not many) I simply ignore comments from!
It is wise for writers to re-read their posts before hitting the Send key. As it is impossible to retract after that moment!
Personally I take Grockle's advice to simply ignore what I perceive to be sarcasm. Also there are certain posters (but not many) I simply ignore comments from!
Well he certainly seems to be learning how to handle the longer form game by game.
I remember about four years ago being told that there was this guy in the seconds who 'was German' and 'would be something very special if we can get his batting and bowling past the raw stage'. Seems we might be getting towards that possibility... Do hope so.
I remember about four years ago being told that there was this guy in the seconds who 'was German' and 'would be something very special if we can get his batting and bowling past the raw stage'. Seems we might be getting towards that possibility... Do hope so.
A tense afternoon but a great result.
I think we can propel ourselves up the table and into contention for a top 4 finish.
I think we can propel ourselves up the table and into contention for a top 4 finish.
What are the pies like up there in deepest darkest Derby, Rob?
It's a genuine question, I'm writing a book about regional grub and it's a place I'm yet to visit.
I had a cracker in Sheffield recently, and have been told the specimen on sale in Kilmarnock is a winner.
By the way, hats off to Trigger, it took some bottle getting us over the line.
Bois bach, isn't life great?
It's a genuine question, I'm writing a book about regional grub and it's a place I'm yet to visit.
I had a cracker in Sheffield recently, and have been told the specimen on sale in Kilmarnock is a winner.
By the way, hats off to Trigger, it took some bottle getting us over the line.
Bois bach, isn't life great?
I have been travelling and so have only just caught up with today's play.
What a result! Well done to the whole team and management.
Also good to hear that BJ had a cracker in Sheffield recently.
What a result! Well done to the whole team and management.
Also good to hear that BJ had a cracker in Sheffield recently.
Quote:Norwich SCCC
A tense afternoon but a great result.
I think we can propel ourselves up the table and into contention for a top 4 finish.
Sorry Norwich you are mistaken ..
It seems that 95 to 99% of the people who know anything about cricket would say we are in a relegation battle fighting for our very survival in the first division and likely to be relegated.
Don't know about the pies Jim but the seven item breakfast plus bread and butter and coffee or tea was excellent value in the ground for £6.75, especially against the £12 the hotel was charging for breakfast.
Cheap and cheerful up there, but not many locals watching. Only about 30 to 50 of them.
How they make it pay I'll never know.
Cheap and cheerful up there, but not many locals watching. Only about 30 to 50 of them.
How they make it pay I'll never know.
My Sheffield cracker was a thing of beauty, Preb, pressed all the right buttons it did.
Do they still play county cricket there?
Do they still play county cricket there?
Sorry Grockle that was never what was said about the 99 percent.
The 99 percent was about the definition of a relegation battle - a struggle against relegation - rather than the elaborate definition of it which you adopted in a bid to prove that we weren't 'in a relegation battle'.
The 99 percent was about the definition of a relegation battle - a struggle against relegation - rather than the elaborate definition of it which you adopted in a bid to prove that we weren't 'in a relegation battle'.
BR - how well did Compton play?
How were our wkts lost - all to good balls? Any to poor shots?
How were our wkts lost - all to good balls? Any to poor shots?
Compton played well and most got out to good bowling, but all in all Derbyshire are a poor team.
Even there own supporters were saying that.
Even there own supporters were saying that.
Great win, lets hope we can kick on now for the last 7 games.
Still plenty of work to do, I expect Surrey and Warwicks to pick up a win or 2 so still plenty of points needed yet but HUGE win.
Happy to say I was proved wrong in stating we couldn't win properly today, I thought getting them out by lunch was far fetched but as it was we did it by 12.30pm, great effort from the 4 seamers, and then the batters.
Still plenty of work to do, I expect Surrey and Warwicks to pick up a win or 2 so still plenty of points needed yet but HUGE win.
Happy to say I was proved wrong in stating we couldn't win properly today, I thought getting them out by lunch was far fetched but as it was we did it by 12.30pm, great effort from the 4 seamers, and then the batters.
Well that's the bottom team taken care if. Now for one of the top teams - Sussex. Maybe we owe them?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:21:36:43 by Ronniesabre.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:21:36:43 by Ronniesabre.
I wouldn't take too much notice of what their fans say about their team, Rob, some of ours say the same thing about our boys.....and as we know, they are deluded.
Quote:AGod
Sorry Grockle that was never what was said about the 99 percent.
The 99 percent was about the definition of a relegation battle - a struggle against relegation - rather than the elaborate definition of it which you adopted in a bid to prove that we weren't 'in a relegation battle'.
I wasn't referring to you AG - I understand how important you are but others have also commented and used the 90 odd percent analogy (maybe they were following you, who kknows). My definition is not elaborate. It's from the football definition which tends to appear in the last 30% of the season rather than the first 30%.
We are 50 odd from the top and 30ish from the bottom in 6th place. We are lower mid table and could go either way with two wins. This win takes us out of the relegation zone and depending on the second half of the season we may never return.
Not sure how that can be a relegation 'battle' but you of course know best. However 90 odd percent of supporters may not support your view after today. I personally don't give it much thought. I didn't support your view in the first place.
Is this the start of us finding our feet in 2013 - what do you think BR?
Grockle, if you've noticed what happens in the football the talk even in pre-season is of several teams facing a season-long battle against relegation - that is applied especially often to newly promoted teams so really not a last 30 percent of the season thing in the footy.
Blah blah blah.
Those sides start at the bottom and stay at the bottom as you know... I don't see Somerset having any intention of doing that and no pundits were predicting it for us at the start of the season - not even you.
You predict it now... 'fan' versus supporter I suppose.
We didn't stay there and we aren't there now. Please don't be 'tiresome' about this. You aren't going to change my view and I have no interest in changing yours.
I'm happy for the side to do that job for me.
I simply made a comment to Nell - why so defensive?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:23:13:14 by Grockle.
Those sides start at the bottom and stay at the bottom as you know... I don't see Somerset having any intention of doing that and no pundits were predicting it for us at the start of the season - not even you.
You predict it now... 'fan' versus supporter I suppose.
We didn't stay there and we aren't there now. Please don't be 'tiresome' about this. You aren't going to change my view and I have no interest in changing yours.
I'm happy for the side to do that job for me.
I simply made a comment to Nell - why so defensive?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:23:13:14 by Grockle.
I have been having, and am still having, computer problems. Being at the edge of the civilised world or arguably beyond it in Aberystwyth hasn't helped either.
Back home now I read all through this thread this morning. Yes, I know!
Mike TA1 predicted on day Two exactly what would happen on days three or four. He is the man.
Back home now I read all through this thread this morning. Yes, I know!
Mike TA1 predicted on day Two exactly what would happen on days three or four. He is the man.
You are right!! He IS a genius with the right forecasts and a photographic memory!!!!
I do get some things correct occasionally, I couldn't be more pleased in getting this right.
I think you get when to click the shutter correct most of the time Mike :-)
On reflection I think the captain should take a lot of credit for this win. On the last morning he opened with the bowlers most likely to serve up good line and length (as OB has consistently advocated) and they did the business. The pitch was bowler-friendly throughout and the captain and Compo were, overall the two most successful batsmen in the match.
It was nail-biting to watch, but, hey that's good cricket!
It was nail-biting to watch, but, hey that's good cricket!
... and it seemed that MT chose exactly the right moment to bring back Kirby, when the old fellow was snorting in the outfield.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Alex Barrow has yet to convince many people with the bat, and I remain uncertain of his future. However rarely will an innings of 16 be more important in context than yesterday's. Have no idea of it's nature but it saw us from staring embarrassment in the eye to all but home & dry.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:25:16:10:54 by Railboy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:25:16:10:54 by Railboy.
When the track is loaded in favour of the bowler then line and length is really all you need.
When it's a mill-pond as vs Durham at home that's when you want the pace and hostility of a Jamie Overton.
When it's a mill-pond as vs Durham at home that's when you want the pace and hostility of a Jamie Overton.
Been out of touch again, so to see that we have opened our Championship account is good news indeed.
Well done all !
Grizzzly
Well done all !
Grizzzly
Grizzzly: we hear of horrible floods in Canada and hope that you and your family have not suffered as a result.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Many thanks chaps.
Spent a very uncomfortable couple of days whilst travelling, hearing about all the floods at home. Village we live in was badly affected with some houses washed away & infrastructure destroyed.
Try googling/you tubing Bragg Creek (or Canmore/Calgary) flooding for a flavour.
Fortunately, have been told our place is still standing & is dry, so hopefully we have been spared, unlike many.
Grizzzly
Spent a very uncomfortable couple of days whilst travelling, hearing about all the floods at home. Village we live in was badly affected with some houses washed away & infrastructure destroyed.
Try googling/you tubing Bragg Creek (or Canmore/Calgary) flooding for a flavour.
Fortunately, have been told our place is still standing & is dry, so hopefully we have been spared, unlike many.
Grizzzly
Cheers.
Just noticed the title of this thread. 'Turning the Tide' indeed.
Grizzzly
Just noticed the title of this thread. 'Turning the Tide' indeed.
Grizzzly
I too had thoughts for you Grizzly. Glad to here you're safe and sound.
I have only just caught up with some of the post I have missed while at the cricket, my thoughts are also with you Grizzzly it must have been worrying for you.
We are lucky in this country we rarely get flooding on that scale.
We are lucky in this country we rarely get flooding on that scale.
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