Somerset
And It Comes Down to This CC1 2013
By Grockle et al
September 24 2013
With the last use of Jos Buttler's photo as a Somerset player on the front of it we come to the story of the end of the 2013 season and a match at Trent Bridge that will determine the fates of a number of Division 1 sides in 2014 - us included. It hasn't quite come to the end some predicted yet but it is still too close to call and the next 4 days will put the final seal on the assessment of this year. However it turns out there is no doubt there are a lot of questions that need answers in the winter.
v Nottinghamshire @ Trent Bridge Tuesday 24 September 2013
With almost a full squad to choose from and a lot of younger players pushing to be included in their own right at this end of the season you would imagine Somerset should feel progress has been made in 2013. For some this is true. Lewis Gregory, Craig Meschede, Jack Leach and Alex Barrow can fully expect to be considered on merit and not because injury requires their inclusion. For others, this move has made their nailed on positions precarious to say the least. The overall lack of performance by this four day unit has put the county at the risk of relegation and has failed to move us consistently away from that zone whenever the opportunity has shown itself.
Marcus Trescothick has only one injury to cover - Steve Kirby has not made the fitness grade to play this game after injury which has barred him from the run in. Jos Buttler and Jamie Overton return for possible selection after the England Australia series was completed and for Jos this will be his last game in a Somerset shirt as he moves up North by all accounts at the end of the season to further his keeping career in the Lancashire rain and drizzle. Piyush Chawla has also been recalled by the BCCI and will miss the last game - let us hope we don't miss his bat which has been almost as important as his bowling during the last few games.
So the skipper picks from a sqaud of;
Trescothick, Compton, Jones, Hildreth, Barrow, Kieswetter, Dockrell, Thomas, Trego, Overton J, Gregory, Meschede and Buttler
One would assume that with the seam resources being so limited, Thomas and Overton will play along with the batting front end that has performed so poorly most of the season. Marcus continues to insist on opening even though it has been more of a hinderance than a help to the number 3 batsman who tends be in before the shine is off the ball because of the decision. Nick Compton will be keen to show Mr Miller and the other England selection idiots why they have made a grave error by not including him in the Australia squad when Cook and Trott have shown little or no form in the summer. We need his stability even if his face does not fit in the 3 Lions camp.
Craig will keep but who will make up the rest of the front 5 is up for debate. Chris Jones is in a bit of a slump and in that respect he joins James Hildreth and summarises his whole season it seems. Alex Barrow has done little wrong in the last few games and can be expected to be a serious consideration at this end of the season.
One expects that Pete Trego will play but it is hard to see how he can keep out either Craig Meschede or Lewis Greogry on the basis of his batting or bowling presently if it comes down to a straight choice. The decision about playing a spinner may come down to the hour before play and it may very well be that George Dockrell misses out given the probable weather forecast - however without the advantage of Arul Suppiah's dual riole any more that would leave us without a slow option if the predictions are wrong. It is probably likely however that the Irishman and Alex Barrow may not get a game out of this 13. Unless Barrow is considered instead of Jones which is also a possibility.
A victory is what must be planned for - that would make our 2014 CC1 place safe. It is not the only permutation and I am sure you will read many in the posts below this story over the next few days BUT victory is the least a patient, frustrated and in some cases angry membership demand. This side has promised so much for so long and after the "almost" year of coming second to Nottinghamshire on altered regulations it would be ironic if this game relegated a side predicted to be at the other end of the table by the pundits in March of this year.
It hasn't been good enough most of the year, it wasn't good enough last year and the introduction of David Nosworthy has yet to put much faith in the belly that it will be good enough next year. The only positive is that some of our younger players seem to have come of age this season and will be expecting to be selected on merit next year. Will the county have the courage to put survival in their hands today and open a new page on Somerset's County cricket squad?
I personally doubt it. We will probably rely on a couple of decent cameos from some of the talent as usual and hope it is enough to get us through. The game is afoot........ well in about 6 hours.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 24/09/2013 05:51
Grockles.com
24/09/2013 05:51
24/09/2013 05:51
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:03:07:13:34 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:03:07:13:34 by Grockle.
I don't think anybody has started a thread on the final match of our season and so trust it is not too soon to do so.
May I set things in motion by stating that I should like:
a) Derbyshire to obtain maximum points
b) Somerset to do the same
c) Abell, batting at 3 after MT and NC, to replace Jones.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:05:53:46 by Grockle.
May I set things in motion by stating that I should like:
a) Derbyshire to obtain maximum points
b) Somerset to do the same
c) Abell, batting at 3 after MT and NC, to replace Jones.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:05:53:46 by Grockle.
So - one assumes that Steve Kirby is fit for selection?
Presumably Jos Buttler and Jamie Overton are also available for selection?
How should this impact on team selection - in the view of posters? What team do we suppose that management will actually pick?
Should Jos's future status (assuming the club now knows what it is) have any effect on whether or not he is selected?
Ordinarily, one would expect Jos to be selected ahead of one of the younger players. In terms of batting order position, it would probably be instead of Barrow.
IN terms of recent performances, one might expect Buttler to come in for Jones - but the problem with that would be the identity of the man at three?
Kieswetter seems to have managed some really irresponsible dismissals of late so does not seem like the man to me.. and I'm not sure anyone else is, either, unless, as LoL suggest, Mr Abell is given a go.
So I suspect that what the club will actually do is retain Jones and that Barrow will be unfortunate to drop out in favour of Jos.
I think they'll also be conservative and err on the side of experience, such that Kirby will return in place of Gregory with the new ball. Personally I think there will be virtually nothing in it for spin, but I think we almost have to pick Chawla for his batting, with the way things have been this season.
This is the team I think they will pick:
Tres
Jones
Compton
Hildreth
Kieswetter
Buttler
Trego
Chawla
Meschede
Thomas
Kirby
Presumably Jos Buttler and Jamie Overton are also available for selection?
How should this impact on team selection - in the view of posters? What team do we suppose that management will actually pick?
Should Jos's future status (assuming the club now knows what it is) have any effect on whether or not he is selected?
Ordinarily, one would expect Jos to be selected ahead of one of the younger players. In terms of batting order position, it would probably be instead of Barrow.
IN terms of recent performances, one might expect Buttler to come in for Jones - but the problem with that would be the identity of the man at three?
Kieswetter seems to have managed some really irresponsible dismissals of late so does not seem like the man to me.. and I'm not sure anyone else is, either, unless, as LoL suggest, Mr Abell is given a go.
So I suspect that what the club will actually do is retain Jones and that Barrow will be unfortunate to drop out in favour of Jos.
I think they'll also be conservative and err on the side of experience, such that Kirby will return in place of Gregory with the new ball. Personally I think there will be virtually nothing in it for spin, but I think we almost have to pick Chawla for his batting, with the way things have been this season.
This is the team I think they will pick:
Tres
Jones
Compton
Hildreth
Kieswetter
Buttler
Trego
Chawla
Meschede
Thomas
Kirby
I don't think there should be any of should we or shouldn't pick a player, we pick the best eleven available.
IF the rumours were true, of course, the conspiratorial merchants would suggest that JOS would play and then make sure that Somerset lost and his new club survived!!! Lord forbid!! We don't have any of them do we??
As highly as I rate Jos even he would struggle to have such an impact on our match, seeing he averages 38 and is not allowed to keep wicket!
Hear hear Mike. Jos is a Somerset player until his contract ends and then will either remain a Somerset player by resigning or leave the club. That does not happen until the end of this match so Mr Buttler should be picked on merit and nothing else.
Agree that Jos would play unless his preferred destination is Notts, when I feel it would be difficult for everyone seeing that Notts are in relegation trouble. If he plays, I would prefer to have Alex B in the side rather than Chris J. I felt that CJ looked very nervous v Surrey, as was evidenced by his leave in the 2nd innings. Also I think Alex's fielding needs to be taken into account. The only problem is who opens since I believe Nick C is best at 3.
As for the bowling, I do not think SK should come back, as the younger bowlers are in good form and are the future. The Jamie O situation is rather more complicated. On balance his extra pace does give us something different, but who to leave out? Meschede is now undroppable and I would be reluctant to be without PT's batting and flair for the big occasion together with AT's experience. That leaves Lewis G. He would be unlucky, but hard decisions have to be made.
As for the bowling, I do not think SK should come back, as the younger bowlers are in good form and are the future. The Jamie O situation is rather more complicated. On balance his extra pace does give us something different, but who to leave out? Meschede is now undroppable and I would be reluctant to be without PT's batting and flair for the big occasion together with AT's experience. That leaves Lewis G. He would be unlucky, but hard decisions have to be made.
Meschede may well be the key bowler if it swings around as it often does at Trent Bridge.
You are surely not suggesting that there would be a conflict of interest for Jos if he is on his way to Notts? What is he going to do? Throw his part of the game? Don't we trust the player? I personally don't care where he is going - if he is picked he will be looking to do his best for his county AND THAT IS SOMERSET until at least October.
People are surely not suggesting that any other case exists are they?
People are surely not suggesting that any other case exists are they?
Talking of season stats. (on another thread) lets cheer Nick Compton on, he could still reach 1000 CC runs for the season he only need 111 runs.
Good luck Nick and the rest of the Team.
I wish it was a home match.
Good luck Nick and the rest of the Team.
I wish it was a home match.
Now selection for a winter tour on the basis of stats alone... who as making a case for that Mike?
We need Nick to get that 'nelson' - I'd personally like to see it in the first innings but I'll take two if I have to in this season.
I'm personally quite happy it is away - the side have been uncharacteristically 'fooled' by the home turf a couple of times this season. Hoping that won't be the case as they'll be more cautious on the Trent Bridge surface. At least that's my theory....
We need Nick to get that 'nelson' - I'd personally like to see it in the first innings but I'll take two if I have to in this season.
I'm personally quite happy it is away - the side have been uncharacteristically 'fooled' by the home turf a couple of times this season. Hoping that won't be the case as they'll be more cautious on the Trent Bridge surface. At least that's my theory....
Of course I don't suggest that Jos would give anything but his best and all things being equal he should of course play. However cricket is also played in the mind and we must make sure he is up for it. The two recent wins have been notable for unity of purpose, while on the other hand in the last CC match Jos played, co-incidentally v Notts, he seemed a somewhat forlorn character fielding on the boundary. Lets hope everyone is ready for a top performance.
Its the most difficult selection dilemma Somerset have faced for some time...selecting from strength for a CC match.
The young side has performed very well in recent matches. It has to some extent come together by accident, but one has to say it has looked the most focused, vibrant and enthusiastic side all Summer. That is down to the youngsters, of that there is no doubt. They are mates, they enjoy each others success and you can feel the spirit amongst them.
Somerset should ensure that 'spell' is not broken. Go with the team that has brought us within a whisker of staying up. If Jos is available and as, has been stated, his mind is clear and perhaps made up, select him. For me, leave out Jones, open with Compo and Tres, k'wetter 3 and remind him of his responsibilities. Hildy, Jos, Alex. Jamie waits his turn as 12th man.
The young side has performed very well in recent matches. It has to some extent come together by accident, but one has to say it has looked the most focused, vibrant and enthusiastic side all Summer. That is down to the youngsters, of that there is no doubt. They are mates, they enjoy each others success and you can feel the spirit amongst them.
Somerset should ensure that 'spell' is not broken. Go with the team that has brought us within a whisker of staying up. If Jos is available and as, has been stated, his mind is clear and perhaps made up, select him. For me, leave out Jones, open with Compo and Tres, k'wetter 3 and remind him of his responsibilities. Hildy, Jos, Alex. Jamie waits his turn as 12th man.
And on what basis is Abell ever going to be selected? He made well over a thousand runs for the seconds, having last year had a record as a school boy probably even better than Buttler's. Does he have to wait for somebody to die?
He's clearly a very talented young batsman and deserves a chance to make his mark.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
He's clearly a very talented young batsman and deserves a chance to make his mark.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
They will probably give him one more winter of "childhood" LoL before bringing him into the big wide world though we have been know to blood players at the end of a season in the past. We'll all know in just over 30 hours from this post.
Jamie O has been put in a curious position, one would conclude that he is rated good enough to play for England in ODIs - why else would they take him away from practising his trade with Somerset? But the opinion here doesn't seem to be strongly in favour of his selection in this match, we shall soon see what the Club think.
We actually have a selection problem on who to leave out rather than who to put in. I'm not sure that I would like the task because I could make a good case for 14 or 15.
Casomer - I think the reality re: Jamie was more that he was considered intriguing enough by England that they wanted David Saker and co to have an extended chance to run the rule over him. They don't give a damn about taking players out of county cricket on a whim..
I agree geordie - the "problem" comes because those who were unavailable (Buttler, Jove, Trego, Kirby in the main) have been replaced by others (Barrow, Jones, Meschede, Gregory) who have performed largely very well. It would be tough on the latter four to have them replaced by the former - tho I suspect that a couple will be as those choosing the team err on the side of experience.
Re Abell, I can see an argument for giving him an end-of-season game, though probably not in one so crucial. Ironically, in the "good old days" of a one-division Championship, this would have been a relatively meaningless game and ideal to see how Abell got on. Progress - ha!
Re Abell, I can see an argument for giving him an end-of-season game, though probably not in one so crucial. Ironically, in the "good old days" of a one-division Championship, this would have been a relatively meaningless game and ideal to see how Abell got on. Progress - ha!
Meschede must surely be nailed on to keep his place after performances vs BOTH Middx and Surrey. The two bowlers that are available again are new ball bowlers so if either is to return they will probably do so at the expense of Gregory?
Only if both return could anyone else be under threat and if the argument is going to be that we should go with experience in a big game then that's not really an argument that makes sense in the case of restoring Jamie O.
I think they'll bring Kirby back for Gregory but I'm not sure that I want them to - especially as late-order batting success has been a feature of BOTH recent CC wins and Steve adds very little there.
Only if both return could anyone else be under threat and if the argument is going to be that we should go with experience in a big game then that's not really an argument that makes sense in the case of restoring Jamie O.
I think they'll bring Kirby back for Gregory but I'm not sure that I want them to - especially as late-order batting success has been a feature of BOTH recent CC wins and Steve adds very little there.
Was Kirby unfit or "dropped"?
I'd keep Meschede and restore Jove for Gregory. I'd also play Jos, prob instead of Jones, and push CK up the order. Glad it's not my call, though.
I'd keep Meschede and restore Jove for Gregory. I'd also play Jos, prob instead of Jones, and push CK up the order. Glad it's not my call, though.
Steve was unfit for the Middx game. Don't remember whether he was fit for the Derbys game. Surrey game I think he was fit but not recalled.
I expect the weather to have a say in some of the games, given that it is late September. Hopefully we don't have to rely on this, but if we Finnish level on points with Notts, I assume that our 3 wins v their 2 would keep us up. Of course Derbyshire's 4 wins (assuming they claim their vital win, would see them above us in that situation?
Not great for the batting but I doubt there'll be anything in the deck for spin.
Would guess we may not pick a spinner at all.
Would guess we may not pick a spinner at all.
13 named. No Kirby. Not sure if he's still unfit.
Dockrell in squad instead of Chawla.
Buttler and Overton both in squad.
Dockrell in squad instead of Chawla.
Buttler and Overton both in squad.
As expected no Swan or Broad.
Nottinghamshire team to face Somerset (from): Steven Mullaney, Riki Wessels, Michael Lumb, James Taylor, Samit Patel, David Hussey, Chris Read, Paul Franks, Luke Fketcher, Andre Adams, Harry Gurney, Brett Hutton, Alex Hales
Nottinghamshire team to face Somerset (from): Steven Mullaney, Riki Wessels, Michael Lumb, James Taylor, Samit Patel, David Hussey, Chris Read, Paul Franks, Luke Fketcher, Andre Adams, Harry Gurney, Brett Hutton, Alex Hales
WHAT??!! Amazed that India have called Chawla back! He's been nowhere near their squad for ages, and the BCCI (boo spit) presumably gave their blessing to us taking him on just a few weeks ago. That really stinks...
PS Very funny Grocks
PS Very funny Grocks
Some internal Indian thing FE. Challenger trophy. He's been picked for the India blues. They play reds and Delhi in 4 day tournament.i googled it and it appears the sides were picked on 10!sept so we must have known for a while he wouldn't be around!!!
If the weather is similar in the East Midlands tomorrow {cloudy and muggy} the odds on us going in without a spinner must increase, especially when we compare Chawla's batting to George D
The problems we have had with our overseas players this year, 3 different ones, none at all for 3 matches makes me think we should look for a player just below international level who we could have for a whole season like Klinger at Glos or Magoffin at Sussex.
The problems we have had with our overseas players this year, 3 different ones, none at all for 3 matches makes me think we should look for a player just below international level who we could have for a whole season like Klinger at Glos or Magoffin at Sussex.
Or not bother, like Durham?
And make Jos an enhanced offer with the saved dosh?
And make Jos an enhanced offer with the saved dosh?
...tho we all know that Aus SHOULD have called up Magoffin - and possibly Klinger as well.
You're quite right Tops, we've been saying that for ages, they're just not that easy to find or sign up. FE's solution would be great - till we lose a game - then a whole ton of criticism would come the club's way!
You're quite right Tops, we've been saying that for ages, they're just not that easy to find or sign up. FE's solution would be great - till we lose a game - then a whole ton of criticism would come the club's way!
Shame about Piyush - he has certainly made some significant contributions with bat and ball and I thank him for his efforts.
I have a hunch that Compo will get a big score and once again remind the England selectors what they are missing.
Roll on 10:30!
I have a hunch that Compo will get a big score and once again remind the England selectors what they are missing.
Roll on 10:30!
If he made a triple hundred in the morning session I doubt it make any difference.
Forecast to be very heavily overcast this morning in particular. I'd imagine the decision at the toss would be a no-brainer.
I don't think the result of this match will, in isolation, save BOTH us and Notts....not expecting a draw so one side will be in peril of being overtaken by Derbyshire IF they win.
I don't think the result of this match will, in isolation, save BOTH us and Notts....not expecting a draw so one side will be in peril of being overtaken by Derbyshire IF they win.
But with Derby playing at Derby and us at Notts the weather is likely to be the same for both.
The points equation is not complex. Derby's maximum is 144-a full bonus point win. If they do that we need 9 points, and Notts 10.If Derby don't win- they go down. I suggest we just win the thing and save the calculators.
Yep, whichever side bowls first will probably have a big advantage at both Nottingham and Derby.
I certainly don't want our batting line-up to have first go.
I certainly don't want our batting line-up to have first go.
Do you think that MArcus' 50 and Nicks ton won't be sufficient then?!?!?!
Quote:Let's hope that the right person wins the toss!!!!!AGod
Yep, whichever side bowls first will probably have a big advantage at both Nottingham and Derby.
I certainly don't want our batting line-up to have first go.
I see in The Times this morning that the ECB have sent in Tony Pigott to see fair play and that there is no collusion for a draw!
[www.thetimes.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:09:00:15 by hantssabre.
[www.thetimes.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:09:00:15 by hantssabre.
I note that the regulation quoted is the one on "extraordinary declarations" I would have thought that it was nigh impossible to make an extraordinary declaration in order to get a draw. Bowling to enable extra bonus points, not take wickets, slow batting etc but not an extraordinary declaration.
What is the difference between playing for a draw from the start and collusion to get a result.
It would be an interesting legal argument.
Edit - Both could be called match fixing albeit that you still have to achieve both results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:09:21:34 by Mike TA1.
It would be an interesting legal argument.
Edit - Both could be called match fixing albeit that you still have to achieve both results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:09:21:34 by Mike TA1.
Good day, everyone.
And let's hope it is the first of 4 out of 4 good days at Trent Bridge for a county to the west of Wiltshire - or even better 3 out of a total of three days.
"Cricket is, of course, only a game."
And let's hope it is the first of 4 out of 4 good days at Trent Bridge for a county to the west of Wiltshire - or even better 3 out of a total of three days.
"Cricket is, of course, only a game."
I wonder what the weather is like up north?
In Somerset with an hour to go it is dull misty/foggy outside temperature 12c - 13c.
Edit spelling
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:09:34:21 by Mike TA1.
In Somerset with an hour to go it is dull misty/foggy outside temperature 12c - 13c.
Edit spelling
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:09:34:21 by Mike TA1.
In Newcastle,dull, overcast with a mizzle. But I am nearly as far from Trent Bridge as you are Mike.
And we have gone all seam with Jones and not Barrow. I think it's a toss up. Barrow has batted well but somehow I quite rate Jones.
By the way, does Harry Gurney's middle initial stand for Farrington?
By the way, does Harry Gurney's middle initial stand for Farrington?
Pretty harsh on Barrow.
I wonder if the decision has been influenced, at all, by the fact that Jones held out here, in very difficult conditions before lunch, for about 70 minutes a couple of years ago?
Might have stuck in the mind of Tresco and Hurry?
I wonder if the decision has been influenced, at all, by the fact that Jones held out here, in very difficult conditions before lunch, for about 70 minutes a couple of years ago?
Might have stuck in the mind of Tresco and Hurry?
And no Andre Adams for Notts which could be pretty big from our point of view.
No Shahazad either.
No Shahazad either.
I think that (as I said yesterday) NC wants to bat at 3, AG, now that there is no immediate prospect of playing for England as an opener - hence (at least in part) the decision to play Jones, who has more experience than Barrow as an opener. I agree, however, that it is hard lines on Alex.
Good start by Wark's 12 from the first over, all extra's .
Is Boswell bowling for Derby.
Is Boswell bowling for Derby.
AG - I would be amazed if they based their decision on a 70 minute knock from seasons ago. They have selected Jones because they think he is a good player.
SLC - they had to decide between Jones and Barrow though. Not simply decide whether or not to pick Jones.
I'm not sure about Wickham's point about opening experience as Barrow had a longish stint opening instead of Trescothick last season.
Admittedly, Barrow's recent success this season has come at six or so.
On the other hand, I don't think he's had less success ,when he has opened, than Jones has had for SCCC.
I'm not sure about Wickham's point about opening experience as Barrow had a longish stint opening instead of Trescothick last season.
Admittedly, Barrow's recent success this season has come at six or so.
On the other hand, I don't think he's had less success ,when he has opened, than Jones has had for SCCC.
Yes, so they'll decide who is a better batsman.
It's not as if Notts has freakish, unique conditions - good players will often play well there, poor players occasionally will.
It's not as if Notts has freakish, unique conditions - good players will often play well there, poor players occasionally will.
We've, thus far, conceded more runs with the new ball than any of the other fielding sides.
I wonder if we might see Meschede soon?
I wonder if we might see Meschede soon?
Aren't the other teams all playing on other pitches?
Really, AG, that was the most pointless and irrelevant contribution ever!!
Really, AG, that was the most pointless and irrelevant contribution ever!!
We have currently taken the joint most wickets in this round of matches, of any side in the whole country.
We've also thus far taken more wickets with new ball than any of the other fielding sides.
I wonder if we might leave Gregory on?
I wonder if we might leave Gregory on?
I imagine that all teams are playing under not dissimilar skies, FE - weather conditions loaded in favour of the bowling sides.
With our batting line-up we cannot afford to be leaking runs in terms of our aim of winning the match - although the bowling bonus point is obviously very welcome.
With our batting line-up we cannot afford to be leaking runs in terms of our aim of winning the match - although the bowling bonus point is obviously very welcome.
Leaking runs!!! Sack the bowlers forthwith!!!
PS I see one contributor on Cricinfo, allegedly a Somerset supporter, has suggested Jones and Barrow have not had good seasons and should maybe move on. Neither has yet scored a run in this match and it's nearly an hour old - perhaps he's right?
FCOL...
PS I see one contributor on Cricinfo, allegedly a Somerset supporter, has suggested Jones and Barrow have not had good seasons and should maybe move on. Neither has yet scored a run in this match and it's nearly an hour old - perhaps he's right?
FCOL...
The run rates in the other games have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on whether we win this one.
But the total number of runs conceded by our bowlers in this match will be hugely relevant and it sounds, to me, as though we are leaking too many.
If you attack you leak runs and take wickets. If you don't attack there is a slow scoring rate and few wickets. You pays your money...
So it's too many? Fair enough.
The fact that it's more than elsewhere? Irrelevant.
The fact that it's more than elsewhere? Irrelevant.
I would guess that havinglost the toss Notts have a game plan which involves scoring quick runs so that they don't take time out of the game.
Presumably the only thing that is not fair play is the cricketing equivalent of Germany and Austria passing the ball along the half way line for 90 minutes. We would be (well I can dream) perfectly with in our rights to bat on to 700 to make sure the game is a draw. What might be frowned on if both sides need the 4 points for the draw to be safe might be negative bowling being left by the batting team for a couple of sessions or bowling part timers for a significant period and allowing the game to Peter out?
I do not imagine, for even one moment, that there will be anything resembling "collusion," Edinburgh, in this match.
In the unlikely even that the Derbyshire match moves forward much more quickly than this one and Derbyshire end up winning at a point where this match appears to be going nowhere then, depending on bonus points accrued up to that point, we might see some form of contrived finish involving declarations and so forth but i'm sure that's not the sort of thing that Piggott has been sent to prevent!
In the unlikely even that the Derbyshire match moves forward much more quickly than this one and Derbyshire end up winning at a point where this match appears to be going nowhere then, depending on bonus points accrued up to that point, we might see some form of contrived finish involving declarations and so forth but i'm sure that's not the sort of thing that Piggott has been sent to prevent!
115 now and extras STILL top scorer - are we determined to throw this away - 16 no balls and 2 wides and 6 byes - got to be suicide mentality !
Rodders, do you want us to let the batsmen score more runs? Will you be happy then?
Can someone enlighten me as to exactly what Pigott has been sent to prevent?
Will he be allowed to be a fly on the wall? If not, how could he prove anything anyway?
I seem to recall last week on a different thread one of our number saying some of us should not be questioning the integrity of a CCC.
Presumably whoever that was thinks it's OK for the ECB to question ours??
Do they do this often or are they so embarassed at the deal done by Batty/Chopra last week that they think they should bolt the stable door?
What with this ECB 'insult' and ditto Compton, should we not be storming the Bastille walls?
Will he be allowed to be a fly on the wall? If not, how could he prove anything anyway?
I seem to recall last week on a different thread one of our number saying some of us should not be questioning the integrity of a CCC.
Presumably whoever that was thinks it's OK for the ECB to question ours??
Do they do this often or are they so embarassed at the deal done by Batty/Chopra last week that they think they should bolt the stable door?
What with this ECB 'insult' and ditto Compton, should we not be storming the Bastille walls?
Commentators were saying that the outfield is very fast and that there's a short boundary on one side..... but none of that explains many of the extras.
Strongly suspect that Tres/Nos need to try and settle Overton and Gregory down over lunch.
Strongly suspect that Tres/Nos need to try and settle Overton and Gregory down over lunch.
If both sides were to give 400 runs away, with each side gifting 9 wickets, that would be an unacceptable contrivance. As everyone recognises, it was never going to happen.
Overton is a loose bowler - he should never have been away from the ground with an ODI international side he is not yet ready to play for. Hopefully they'll work on this during the winter. I'm not blaming him for all the extras (not seen the scorecard) but its just the way it presently is.
But Steve K wasn't available Rodders - shame to me but to the liking of some.
You play old blokes, you don't get the pace but you do keep it tighter usually.
You play young blokes you get energy but you also sometimes get rawness and loose stuff. Which would you rather have assuming you have to teach bowlers to control themselves?
But Steve K wasn't available Rodders - shame to me but to the liking of some.
You play old blokes, you don't get the pace but you do keep it tighter usually.
You play young blokes you get energy but you also sometimes get rawness and loose stuff. Which would you rather have assuming you have to teach bowlers to control themselves?
SP you surely can't be happy with us gifting them 28 runs before lunch ( and I will ignore your facetious comment ).
Commentators are suggesting the pitch has some pace and bounce (as the pitch for the Pro 40 semi did) so I can see why we picked Overton on those grounds.
But, yep, Grockle, they're going to have to spend as much time as possible working with him on his no-ball problems over the winter.
But, yep, Grockle, they're going to have to spend as much time as possible working with him on his no-ball problems over the winter.
It's the reason he had no chance of playing in the ODI series. He's lost some tightness over the course of this season rather than tightened up.
Had he been fit, I would have had no hesitation in picking Kirby instead Jamie is a prospect that needs finishing off first.
Had he been fit, I would have had no hesitation in picking Kirby instead Jamie is a prospect that needs finishing off first.
Looks like Jamie Overton's time with England has been well spent sorting out his no ball issues.
Do we remember how many extras we gave away against Derby?
In the end it lost us the game!
In the end it lost us the game!
No, of course I'm not happy with it rodders, I just think that whinges about how extras are top scorer are always a bit counter-intuitive. We've taken four wickets on the first morning - well played to our young bowling attack might have been worth saying.
Of course, we're now through Notts' weak area and into their strong middle order - plus ca change.
Of course, we're now through Notts' weak area and into their strong middle order - plus ca change.
Runs coming thick and fast now - Hussey way past extras - every cloud...
Are there STILL a possible 10 and a bit sessions left in these games? You wouldn't think it would you?
Bagpuss, it wasn't simply the fact that we were bowled out for 103...it was a combination of things...the huge number of extra was a massive contributory factor, as was, I am sad to sad to say, the dropped catch, when Derby needed 22 to win. It is possible to discuss all sorts of reasons why teams win and it is not always one single factor.
I concur with Grockle, far too early for Jamie Overton to be involved with England. Much to learn and just because he has raw pace everyone gets carried away. When he takes a few 5 wicket hauls, eliminates the unnecessary no balls and looks to have cracked county cricket, then ease him in to the England set up.
I concur with Grockle, far too early for Jamie Overton to be involved with England. Much to learn and just because he has raw pace everyone gets carried away. When he takes a few 5 wicket hauls, eliminates the unnecessary no balls and looks to have cracked county cricket, then ease him in to the England set up.
Max bonus points should all but see us safe. There is still a job to do with the ball, but now will be the time for our batsmen, collectively to do a job in both innings!
im sorry Bill but max bonus points themselves will not do the job Im afraid. We need that and some batting points too and hope that Derby dont bat so well.
Doesn't "max bonus points" include batting points?!
As G says, ten sessions left yet - long way to go...
As G says, ten sessions left yet - long way to go...
I guess in our game there is also the possibility of declarations to deny the other team points. The only time this would really make sense is if Notts get to 400 with overs to spare and wickets in hand. If we were in that position we just need to bat as long as we could really?
I am sure-well as sure as I can be- that once we take the next wicket the last 5 will add no more than 80. Maximum bonus points will only do it if Derby win and drop a bonus point.
Too late to say the Overtons shouldn't be involved with England yet - they've been 'involved' for a few years already and if nothing else the recent England squad selections have shown us that England takes much more notice of the players that have come throught their system than they do those who are performing day in, day out in county cricket.
I have absolutely no problem with players coming through the system...however, in my opinion, its too early for this particular player. Right now he is bowling too short, trying to bowl too fast and adding to the extras with no balls...infact, it has been necessary to be take him out of the attack...immaturity I'm afraid.
If as we are told Buttler has decided to reject offer to play for his home county then shame on him.He is a Somerset born and raised player, played throughout all his childhood for the county who also helped his education at Kings Taunton and academy and if he decides to leave ,lead by Mr Fairbrother the agent who is looking out for his former county then Jos you are no better than many other sportsman who loyalty isnt in their vocabulary.
Given your track record on this board Averageside, it's a bit rich to be lecturing people about "loyalty" !
Maybe Jos doesn't think we have been 'loyal' enough to him anyway.
Who knows what was promised to whom ?
Meantime, it would be nice to get a few wickets please.....
Grizzzly
Maybe Jos doesn't think we have been 'loyal' enough to him anyway.
Who knows what was promised to whom ?
Meantime, it would be nice to get a few wickets please.....
Grizzzly
I received my entire schooling in Somerset, Glastonbury and Street, to be precise, but to demonstrate my disloyalty I chose to spend my entire working life out of the county, much of it indeed out of the country. I am deeply ashamed.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I need help here I have just returned home (and see still only four wicket) cricinfo is showing two bowlers with part overs (Gregory and Overton) I check their commentary and it shows only three balls in the 12th over.
Jove was taken off by the umpires after four balls of one over - persistent short-pitched tripe, I think. Gregory finished his over.
That normally happens if you bowl two beamers you then can't bowl any more and get reported to the ECB.
God help us - just what we needed, a bowler short. Sometimes I think we deserve what we may well get.
Sad, sad, sad - where is the leadership and wise old head for heavens sake ?
Sad, sad, sad - where is the leadership and wise old head for heavens sake ?
.................and why is Gregory still showing 18.2 overs - has he been taken off by the umpires as well - what the hell is going on ?
Quote:SheptonPaul
Jove was taken off by the umpires after four balls of one over - persistent short-pitched tripe, I think. Gregory finished his over.
You were correct Paul cricinfo says he bowled one beamer and too many short balls in another over.
What couldn't you make up? Notts 290-5 at Trent Bridge? I'd suggest it has happened 100s of times before.
Thanks Mike - stupid of me not to work that out for myself but I blame old age and a bad day for the lads !
What's our over rate like? the last thing we need is points deduced for a slow over rate.
That's down to the captain to make sure that doesn't happen.
That's down to the captain to make sure that doesn't happen.
Quote:Mike TA1
What's our over rate like? the last thing we need is points deduced for a slow over rate.
That's down to the captain to make sure that doesn't happen.
If the selectors are daft enough to go into a match of this importance without a spinner what do we expect. A balanced attack IMO is always the bast way to go.
The "wise old head" is injured Rodders.
How is it the management's fault that Jamie is bowling beamers?
Some on here have been calling for Kirby to be replaced by these youngsters for weeks.. if only Dibble was available I hear them say.
Where is Dibble? Where has he been for most of the season? Never mind... he might be available next year.
How is it the management's fault that Jamie is bowling beamers?
Some on here have been calling for Kirby to be replaced by these youngsters for weeks.. if only Dibble was available I hear them say.
Where is Dibble? Where has he been for most of the season? Never mind... he might be available next year.
Are we going for the most number of extras in one innings this season, if so only twelve to go. (where is the bowling coach).
In Jamie's case (remembering the games I saw him play in Taunton)the nearest thing we've had for him this season..is injured.
I can't think we will be fined for slow overs! We have bowled nearly three extra overs with wides and no balls.
Old Boy, that will not make any difference they will say that's our own fault, and I agree.
Quote:Mike TA1
Old Boy, that will not make any difference they will say that's our own fault, and I agree.
I know Mike - it was a poor attempt at a joke!!
This is not a joke though! Jove is a great prospect BUT has it all gone to his head? Who in the team is giving him help or advice? The Captain? The Vice Captain? The Coach? The DOC? Or has the England set-up triggered higher expectations than he is capable of at present? At the moment he appears uncontrollable!
I don't doubt we've battled hard today, but 46 extra's ?
Sometimes we really don't help ourselves.
Grizzzly
Sometimes we really don't help ourselves.
Grizzzly
I guess we'll know a whole lot more by the end of tomorrow. We should have a good idea how many batting points Derbys and ourselves are likely to get and a lot more about the match situations. With our batting this year, it's going to be a nervous day. If we get one more point than Derbys then they can't catch us right ?"
Why was Overton allowed to continue to bowl short? He had hit Hussey on the hand with a beamer in this morning's session, well before he was dismissed after lunch for persistent short deliveries. This persistent short pitched stuff has happened before, and he has been criticised here for its ineffectiveness. Why has this problem persisted? He is a young inexperienced bowler, is there no-one available (or prepared) to take him aside and sort it out. This stupidity may cost us dear.
I know Mike - it was a poor attempt at a joke!!
The jokes on me then Old Boy.
And when did Jamie last play in a match? (thanks to England)
The jokes on me then Old Boy.
And when did Jamie last play in a match? (thanks to England)
Sorry gang but a really stupid day - a bowler banned, 46 I repeat 46 extras, no on field guidance that can be perceived for Jove, stupid to select a side without a spinner in most opinions, sometimes I despair. If we stay up it will most definitely be more by luck than judgement. We won the toss otherwise I suspect....oh why bother, this is Somerset we support so what do we expect ?
Quote:rodders12
Sorry gang but a really stupid day - a bowler banned, 46 I repeat 46 extras, no on field guidance that can be perceived for Jove, stupid to select a side without a spinner in most opinions, sometimes I despair. If we stay up it will most definitely be more by luck than judgement. We won the toss otherwise I suspect....oh why bother, this is Somerset we support so what do we expect ?
Well that's it. Let's give up.
Completely agree rodders. Surely Trescothic or Thomas should have sorted Overton out long before he was banned, or failing that Hurry or Nosworthy during the lunch interval. Is there anyone with any nous in the set-up?
Of course not. They're all idiots and morons who've only got to where they've got to up to now by sheer luck, and the inability of other professionals to see their obvious inadequacy.
"...no on field guidance that can be perceived..." I'd be interested in how this can be perceived unless you are there or have read a report from someone who was - were the commentators saying no-one as talking to the bowler.
Are you assuming no-one said "Hey Jamie don't bowl consistent short balls" because he did?
Did the umpire NOT give him a warning I wonder?
When bowlers take lots of wickets we all say well done to X or Y and rarely put it down to 'on field guidance' but the moment they do something wrong it seems to be because they are incapable of understanding their role unless someone is telling them on a regular basis? Jamie Overton is a first team adult cricket professional isn't he?
Overton seems to have had a bad day - maybe trying too hard - who knows. I personally can't really 'perceive' anything until someone gives me their first hand observed view.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:18:54:17 by Grockle.
Are you assuming no-one said "Hey Jamie don't bowl consistent short balls" because he did?
Did the umpire NOT give him a warning I wonder?
When bowlers take lots of wickets we all say well done to X or Y and rarely put it down to 'on field guidance' but the moment they do something wrong it seems to be because they are incapable of understanding their role unless someone is telling them on a regular basis? Jamie Overton is a first team adult cricket professional isn't he?
Overton seems to have had a bad day - maybe trying too hard - who knows. I personally can't really 'perceive' anything until someone gives me their first hand observed view.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:18:54:17 by Grockle.
FE I like your irony, but nevertheless surely someone in the club IS ADVISING all these wonderfully talented yougsters we have - I presume Jason Kerr is no longer directly involved with them?
Apologies Grockle - perceived was the wrong word to use - many years since my A level in English Language.
Choose any one of any number of words which you would prefer.
Fact remains he did not get any advice which changed anything.
How many bowlers in this seasons CC have been taken off by the umpires ?
Answers on a postcard to you know who !
Choose any one of any number of words which you would prefer.
Fact remains he did not get any advice which changed anything.
How many bowlers in this seasons CC have been taken off by the umpires ?
Answers on a postcard to you know who !
Agod, if Overton cannot bowl a line and length to order, then he is not the bowler everyone thinks he is. He most certainly can and is. The culprit is not Overton.
But your initial statement seemed to suggest that he got NO advice.
I can tell a kid not to stick things in their ear. If they continue to stick things in their ear it must obviously be my fault that they get earache or go deaf then?
If Jamie's radar is off, what is the on field solution that the captain (I'm assuming you are blaming him for this) could have taken? Bowl for him or take him off?
No I can't think of any Somerset bowler who has been removed from the attack in ANY game I've seen in over 15 years.
But my understanding is you bowl a beamer, you are warned, you bowl another, you are taken off.
Forgive me. I don't see how Marcus Trescothick is responsible for the young man bowling two (it seems consecutive) beamers or how he could have stopped him mid over.
I can tell a kid not to stick things in their ear. If they continue to stick things in their ear it must obviously be my fault that they get earache or go deaf then?
If Jamie's radar is off, what is the on field solution that the captain (I'm assuming you are blaming him for this) could have taken? Bowl for him or take him off?
No I can't think of any Somerset bowler who has been removed from the attack in ANY game I've seen in over 15 years.
But my understanding is you bowl a beamer, you are warned, you bowl another, you are taken off.
Forgive me. I don't see how Marcus Trescothick is responsible for the young man bowling two (it seems consecutive) beamers or how he could have stopped him mid over.
Have I mis-read your last post, NBJ, or are you seriously insinuating that JOve was "only following orders"?
I think the 'culprit' is most definitely Jamie Overton NBJ. He bowled the balls and he was punished for them.
Grockle - not blaming MT or anyone else - just asking the question. If you have the answer please put up or...........!
I'm obviously not saying that he was asked to bowl beamers, FE. The beamers were not in consecutive balls as Grockle suggests, but were interspersed with too many short pitched balls according to the radio commentary over a prolonged period. I'm saying that Overton should have been managed better.
I do remember a bowler being taken off by the umpires at Taunton for bowling beamer(s) in a 40 over match. Perhaps 5 or so years ago. Memory of detail isn't all it should be but I think it was a Somerset player, Turner?
Edit: A circumstance comes back from memory it must have been seven years or so ago.
I sometimes think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability
[Oscar Wilde]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:19:20:34 by Casomer.
Edit: A circumstance comes back from memory it must have been seven years or so ago.
I sometimes think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability
[Oscar Wilde]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:19:20:34 by Casomer.
I don't think you asked a question Rodders.
I think you stated you perceived on field mismanagement and lack of advice and if you weren't putting at the skippers feet where were you placing it? He's the on field management I think.
Bowlers have bad days, sometimes it doesn't work. Today Jamie had one of those days. It was as bad as it can be if you are removed from the attack. I'm sure he did his best to keep control but he didn't. Young man, inexperience of this (it happens to the best - Harmison had a nightmare start to an Ashes campaign I seem to recall - though I can't remember who the captain to blame for that was), trying too hard.
But in the end the responsibility is at the feet of the man with the ball. I'm damn sure it would all SK's fault if he had done this today. I've already 'put up' in my response to NBJ. I'll now happily....... because for some reason you seem to be looking for a posting "fight" of some kind once again.
I think you stated you perceived on field mismanagement and lack of advice and if you weren't putting at the skippers feet where were you placing it? He's the on field management I think.
Bowlers have bad days, sometimes it doesn't work. Today Jamie had one of those days. It was as bad as it can be if you are removed from the attack. I'm sure he did his best to keep control but he didn't. Young man, inexperience of this (it happens to the best - Harmison had a nightmare start to an Ashes campaign I seem to recall - though I can't remember who the captain to blame for that was), trying too hard.
But in the end the responsibility is at the feet of the man with the ball. I'm damn sure it would all SK's fault if he had done this today. I've already 'put up' in my response to NBJ. I'll now happily....... because for some reason you seem to be looking for a posting "fight" of some kind once again.
No problem Grocks - we agree that the fault was Joves. Don't know who could have prevented it or if anyone could have done.
Re " looking for a fight " your opinion of course but I think that if we had a poll of all the forum posters then the majority would attach that label to you with AG a close second. I guess we will never know will we !
Re " looking for a fight " your opinion of course but I think that if we had a poll of all the forum posters then the majority would attach that label to you with AG a close second. I guess we will never know will we !
I'm just not taking the bait Rodders... nice try though, almost hid the provocation, but as you say "I guess we'll never know".
I don't particularly fight with you - you just don't handle the fact I disagree with you too well.
I'll happen again - wonder if you'll try and start it next time as well? "I guess" we'll have to wait to find out.
Control is the key isn't it? A bit like the subject I suppose. Have a good evening
I don't particularly fight with you - you just don't handle the fact I disagree with you too well.
I'll happen again - wonder if you'll try and start it next time as well? "I guess" we'll have to wait to find out.
Control is the key isn't it? A bit like the subject I suppose. Have a good evening
I think Jove is a tremendous prospect but as a young cricketer learning his trade somebody is, presumably, having a word with him or may be even COACHING him. I agree with Grockle that ultimately it is down to Jove BUT he (and others) have, all the season, been bowling a lot of short pitched rubbish (to order??) among some very good line and length stuff.
Cricinfo is quite plain that (a) the beamer which hit Hussey on the hand was during the morning session; radio commentary said Jove appeared to show little if any remorse, but just went back to his mark; Jove got one official warning. (b) during the mid-afternoon session (I'm estimating 25 or 30 overs later), he was bowling a lot of short-pitched stuff (on BBC radio they said it was hardly Michael Holding, not dangerous, but just overdone), he got an umpire's unofficial warning advising to not over-do it; he then bowled two consecutive above-head-high bouncers which were each no-balled. The umps (Gough at Jove's end, primarily, but in consultation with Llong from square-leg) called Tres over and said they were disqualifying him from bowling for the rest of the innings - as is their right.
Cricinfo then says Tres was obviously furious with Jove, and essentially threw his cap at him (can't remember the precise words they used, but that was the gist). I would gather from that that Jove was not bowling short under captain's orders, and that it is likely that Tres had advised him to desist from the short stuff.
The last bit is my estimation from what I've read / heard on BBC radio comms - I wasn't there, I was in an office in Swindon.
Cricinfo then says Tres was obviously furious with Jove, and essentially threw his cap at him (can't remember the precise words they used, but that was the gist). I would gather from that that Jove was not bowling short under captain's orders, and that it is likely that Tres had advised him to desist from the short stuff.
The last bit is my estimation from what I've read / heard on BBC radio comms - I wasn't there, I was in an office in Swindon.
Perhaps a spell in the company of Rankin and Finn had done young Jamie more harm than good.
Sorry Grocks and don't want to prolong a needless debate but the fact is that of all the posters on your forum the man least able to cope with people on here who disagree with them is not me or AG or Botham or AS but sadly your good self.
As you say have a good evening.
As you say have a good evening.
Your opinion Rodders nothing more and nothing less.
I can cope with that and walk away please try and do the same.
No need to apologise.
Readers and posters can come to their own conclusions about who does what and wants what. I have enough faith in them to do that. I doubt they need you to tell them how things are at any time.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:21:30:43 by Grockle.
I can cope with that and walk away please try and do the same.
No need to apologise.
Readers and posters can come to their own conclusions about who does what and wants what. I have enough faith in them to do that. I doubt they need you to tell them how things are at any time.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:21:30:43 by Grockle.
Only one beamer according to cricinfo.
Quote.
•Jamie Overton was removed from the attack after 4 balls of the 59th over. He was taken off due to excessive short-pitched bowling and a beamer earlier in the day. Lewis Gregory completed the over.
Quote.
•Jamie Overton was removed from the attack after 4 balls of the 59th over. He was taken off due to excessive short-pitched bowling and a beamer earlier in the day. Lewis Gregory completed the over.
So he was warned for the beamer and then taken off for a period of continued short pitched bowling. It is a pretty sharp procedure I seem to remember. You don't get a third chance.
So spending 2 weeks in the company of England's finest did Jove more harm than good by the looks of things.
I forget who said that he would benefit more on the sidelines than in 2 critical championship matches but as I thought that viewpoint was spurious rubbish before, what do I think now?
However, back to the cricket. Two more wickets to get another point and a solid batting display is needed tomorrow. (even something like 260/5 by COP could do)
Warwicks have fought back and I think are ahead of their game at Derby but as ever we will know more in 24 hours time.
Feeling cautiously optimistic but there is a lot of work to be done.
I forget who said that he would benefit more on the sidelines than in 2 critical championship matches but as I thought that viewpoint was spurious rubbish before, what do I think now?
However, back to the cricket. Two more wickets to get another point and a solid batting display is needed tomorrow. (even something like 260/5 by COP could do)
Warwicks have fought back and I think are ahead of their game at Derby but as ever we will know more in 24 hours time.
Feeling cautiously optimistic but there is a lot of work to be done.
9 phases to go Norwich but I think you may be right. The rhythm of CC1 cricket regularly is probably better than nets and sitting on a balcony watching games going on
Sorry Shep, got sidetracked by my obvious 'looking for a fight all the time' nature and missed your clear explanation of what went on.
With that and Mike's info it sounds like JO may be on the 'naughty step' tonight for not doing what he was told. I'm surprised it seems he DID get a third chance as the ump didn't immediately remove him for going back to the short stuff.
I'd call him the definite culprit on the basis of those reports.
Be interesting to see how he bowls in the second run in.
With that and Mike's info it sounds like JO may be on the 'naughty step' tonight for not doing what he was told. I'm surprised it seems he DID get a third chance as the ump didn't immediately remove him for going back to the short stuff.
I'd call him the definite culprit on the basis of those reports.
Be interesting to see how he bowls in the second run in.
Thanks, Shepton Paul, for your account of what happened at Trent Bridge today concerning Overton's premature withdrawal from the attack.
All that I can say from a distance is that to my mind (for what it's worth) there would appear to be a question mark over his ability and attitude to succeed at even county level.
It would also appear that Marcus Trescothick is not fully able to control the actions of his team mates.
I am sure that this would not have happened with a different type of leader at the helm.
Very disappointing.
All that I can say from a distance is that to my mind (for what it's worth) there would appear to be a question mark over his ability and attitude to succeed at even county level.
It would also appear that Marcus Trescothick is not fully able to control the actions of his team mates.
I am sure that this would not have happened with a different type of leader at the helm.
Very disappointing.
Which part of the report suggests Marcus 'is not fully able to control the actions of his team mates'? How exactly is he expected to show that he is controlling them?
If he remonstrates with a player who seems not to have done what was required he isn't in control. I wonder if he'd done nothing whether he would have been accused of not caring what his team mates did.
When the captain is disliked it seems difficult for him to do anything that would be met with a measured response.
Can a captain control the on field actions of his team mates anyway? How does he do that?
If he remonstrates with a player who seems not to have done what was required he isn't in control. I wonder if he'd done nothing whether he would have been accused of not caring what his team mates did.
When the captain is disliked it seems difficult for him to do anything that would be met with a measured response.
Can a captain control the on field actions of his team mates anyway? How does he do that?
Yes sorry NBJ. I thought they'd said he bowled two dangerous balls but it seems he just kept on bowling consecutive short stuff when told not to. It seems by his captain AND the umpire.
Marcus seems to have had every right to be furious with him as any captain would I might hazard to suggest. Still not sure how you manage someone who is obviously not even taking notice of the officials on the pitch. Did Jamie just lose it or something? I guess we'll never know
Unfortunately we can't see how the incident was finally dealt with because unless we are psychic we don't know what went off when the side left the field.
Marcus seems to have had every right to be furious with him as any captain would I might hazard to suggest. Still not sure how you manage someone who is obviously not even taking notice of the officials on the pitch. Did Jamie just lose it or something? I guess we'll never know
Unfortunately we can't see how the incident was finally dealt with because unless we are psychic we don't know what went off when the side left the field.
Apologies, I didn't see your reply until I had posted the above.
So does he do this when he has been just been warned by the umpire? Have you ever seen a captain stop a bowler mid over and get someone else to finish off the over for him?
Has that ever happened?
Don't you think that it would have seemed logical to a captain that after telling a bowler to calm down and then having the umpire give him an unofficial chatting to you could reasonably expect the bowler NOT to continue? Couldn't the fact that Jamie DIDN'T be reasonably accepted as the reason for his captain's furious reaction>
I thought this had happened in one spell, it seems it happened over two so he had been given some time to calm it all down and have a think about things.
It's that retrospect thing again. Hindsight rarely gives benefit of the doubt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:21:25:25 by Grockle.
So does he do this when he has been just been warned by the umpire? Have you ever seen a captain stop a bowler mid over and get someone else to finish off the over for him?
Has that ever happened?
Don't you think that it would have seemed logical to a captain that after telling a bowler to calm down and then having the umpire give him an unofficial chatting to you could reasonably expect the bowler NOT to continue? Couldn't the fact that Jamie DIDN'T be reasonably accepted as the reason for his captain's furious reaction>
I thought this had happened in one spell, it seems it happened over two so he had been given some time to calm it all down and have a think about things.
It's that retrospect thing again. Hindsight rarely gives benefit of the doubt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:21:25:25 by Grockle.
By the same token, just because Jove may have had a stroppy half an hour, or got a bit wound up by being held up by Hussey and Lumb after we'd made a great start in a vital game (the radio comms did say quite a few lbw shouts were turned down which can frustrate even a very experienced bowler), that doesn't mean the 19-year-old has lost it, isn't good enough for FC cricket, or that he was unduly affected by his ten days with England.
As with Craig's keeping horrors one afternoon a couple weeks ago, it just means they had a bad 30 minutes, session or day. We've all had a bad day at work...it happens. It's how you come back that makes the difference.
As with Craig's keeping horrors one afternoon a couple weeks ago, it just means they had a bad 30 minutes, session or day. We've all had a bad day at work...it happens. It's how you come back that makes the difference.
I on't think we can be sure that Jamie WANTED to be bowling short stuff - maybe that was just the way the b all came out. Indeed a mix of short piched interspersed with full tosses/beamers suggested he was having all sorts of problems with his action, obviously not helped by some issues with his run up (front foot no balls)
I don't think we can entirely blame a couple of weeks in the company of Team England and David saker - its not as if his action was McGrath-like metronomic before this - but anyone who thinks this stuff comes easy should maybe go back and read the Scott Boswell article again.
I'm not sugesting this is a case of the yips, it is more likely slight variations in avtion, but to me just points out again that we NEED A BOWLING COACH!
I don't think we can entirely blame a couple of weeks in the company of Team England and David saker - its not as if his action was McGrath-like metronomic before this - but anyone who thinks this stuff comes easy should maybe go back and read the Scott Boswell article again.
I'm not sugesting this is a case of the yips, it is more likely slight variations in avtion, but to me just points out again that we NEED A BOWLING COACH!
Very true Shepton. It's the game situation that seems to have got a few fired up tonight.
Maybe they are having their own "Jamie" moments as the pressure just gets too much.
Maybe they are having their own "Jamie" moments as the pressure just gets too much.
16 overs tomorrow to get the last bowling point. Forecast for tomorrow is for cloud and to be cooler than today, so time for the batsmen to step up to the plate and bat out the day and well into Thursday. Div 1 status rests heavily on tomorrow's batting performance.
Really disappointing to hear all this. Especially in the importance if the game when the team needs to be really together standing as one. I fear we are not which worries me. Tomorrow it has to be right!!
You're right SP. There are three types of poster to this site - ones that can count and ones that can't.
Quote:Frome Exile
Oh for George or Piyush, now.
The PC situation is a bit unfortunate.
Beyond that, did you not suggest to me a couple of rounds ago that picking GD would be a bit silly?
I am sure he will have got something out of his time with England, Bagpuss.
However, I do feel that young bowlers benefit more from bowling regularly and consistently to get into a groove. It is impossible to prove, but the recent inaction, and frustration that may have stemmed from this, has led to a less than polished performance today.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:21:57:10 by Norwich SCCC.
However, I do feel that young bowlers benefit more from bowling regularly and consistently to get into a groove. It is impossible to prove, but the recent inaction, and frustration that may have stemmed from this, has led to a less than polished performance today.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:24:21:57:10 by Norwich SCCC.
Quote:SheptonPaul
Cricinfo is quite plain that (a) the beamer which hit Hussey on the hand was during the morning session; radio commentary said Jove appeared to show little if any remorse, but just went back to his mark; Jove got one official warning. (b) during the mid-afternoon session (I'm estimating 25 or 30 overs later), he was bowling a lot of short-pitched stuff (on BBC radio they said it was hardly Michael Holding, not dangerous, but just overdone), he got an umpire's unofficial warning advising to not over-do it; he then bowled two consecutive above-head-high bouncers which were each no-balled. The umps (Gough at Jove's end, primarily, but in consultation with Llong from square-leg) called Tres over and said they were disqualifying him from bowling for the rest of the innings - as is their right.
Cricinfo then says Tres was obviously furious with Jove, and essentially threw his cap at him (can't remember the precise words they used, but that was the gist). I would gather from that that Jove was not bowling short under captain's orders, and that it is likely that Tres had advised him to desist from the short stuff.
The last bit is my estimation from what I've read / heard on BBC radio comms - I wasn't there, I was in an office in Swindon.
WHAT? Tres threw some head gear at JO? Really?
This is the Cricinfo text - I quote it, but can't vouch for its accuracy...
"Trescothick's anger at his young fast bowler was evident in the aggressive manner in which he returned his cap, throwing it in Overton's general direction for him to pick up while Lewis Gregory finished the over."
"Trescothick's anger at his young fast bowler was evident in the aggressive manner in which he returned his cap, throwing it in Overton's general direction for him to pick up while Lewis Gregory finished the over."
FE - please accept a certain amount of apologies from me for my 21:54.
A frustrating day.
A frustrating day.
Can I just put my hand up and say that my "Finn and Rankin" comment was entirely TIC.
I have to say that I rest my case with the earlier comment about Jamie...an excellent prospect but no where near ready for England. Can you imagine if this scenario happened during a Test match or he played in one of the ODIs and lost his self control. That is what young players do, esp fast bowlers. He needs time to mature...with his county...not England, yet!
On a different thread some days ago ( and I am not going hunting for it) I put Durham's success to developing their own young bowlers and keeping them out of England's clutches. And I meant it.
SP, the hat was sent/thrown Frizbee style.
Something we have all seen before.
Just makes good reporting.
Something we have all seen before.
Just makes good reporting.
Quote:Bagpuss
I on't think we can be sure that Jamie WANTED to be bowling short stuff - maybe that was just the way the b all came out. Indeed a mix of short piched interspersed with full tosses/beamers suggested he was having all sorts of problems with his action, obviously not helped by some issues with his run up (front foot no balls)
I agree with you Bagpuss, I think yours is the likeliest explanation and whilst it's disapointing of course, I don't think it's fair for Jove's character to be called in to question. Some time with a good coach over the winter could do him the world of good.
Just in... Last season, prior to stress fracture, I thought Craig a somewhat more promising bowler than Jamie...
I'm generally a fan of the Collingwood approach at Durham....he cast aside the profligate bowlers (Harmison and Plunkett)
Our coaches need to impress upon Jamie the value of a consistent stock delivery...
I'm generally a fan of the Collingwood approach at Durham....he cast aside the profligate bowlers (Harmison and Plunkett)
Our coaches need to impress upon Jamie the value of a consistent stock delivery...
And I'd just like to add that I'm raising a glass to Chris Woakes at the moment, without whom our situation would look a lot more perilous this evening, and who, like Nick, has every right to feel thoroughly @#$%& off with life at present. Let's hope Compo can follow his lead tomorrow and shove a big score down the gin-slinging dodderers' throats.
Sounds like JO had a bit of a 'mare today.
If he deliberately continued to bowl short stuff after being warned, then the phrase "stupid boy" springs to mind.
If you take the charitable view, that it was 'just' a case of a bad day at the office, I really don't know what to make of it.
To get to the stage in his career that he has, surely an element of 'control' must have featured in his bowling. How that manifests itself in a bucket full of no-balls (8 in 10 overs) in a match where every run is vitalis frankly beyond me.
I'm also not convinced that a bowling coach is the answer is situations like this.
'Self control' coaching might be a better place to start.
Grizzzly
If he deliberately continued to bowl short stuff after being warned, then the phrase "stupid boy" springs to mind.
If you take the charitable view, that it was 'just' a case of a bad day at the office, I really don't know what to make of it.
To get to the stage in his career that he has, surely an element of 'control' must have featured in his bowling. How that manifests itself in a bucket full of no-balls (8 in 10 overs) in a match where every run is vitalis frankly beyond me.
I'm also not convinced that a bowling coach is the answer is situations like this.
'Self control' coaching might be a better place to start.
Grizzzly
Let us all feel good for tomorrow. Last year at Trent Bridge we declared at 450 odd for 2 with Nick unbeaten on 200+. I am sure Nick will reproduce again, but more importantly it woukld be great to see a century from our skipper. Marcus - your time to step up to the plate!!!
I like your positivity Roger, in fact it's infectious - I'm going to be in attendance for at least the first two sessions tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to seeing our top order put on a good show.
Don't forget everyone that there would be poetic justice if we end up with 1 less point than Notts in this match and find Derby creeping ahead of both of us. Revenge for the way that Lancs gifted the title to Notts 3 years ago in BOTH matches!!!!
Your comment about Finn and Rankin may have been entirely TIC, FE, but one wonders whether a premature England call might not have led to JO becoming somewhat carried away with himself?
With reference to Jamie and his development programme
You'd like to be able to assume that there is some joined up communication in the development of players in relation to what is happening to them on England camps and how that is being extended and worked on by the clubs they play for.
I know we have visiting coaches who come to do sessions with certain individuals but to make the progression smooth and solid it has to be done in co-operation between the two separate groups to give the player a consistent bunch of messages on what they are supposed to be doing.
You'd like to be able to assume that there is some joined up communication in the development of players in relation to what is happening to them on England camps and how that is being extended and worked on by the clubs they play for.
I know we have visiting coaches who come to do sessions with certain individuals but to make the progression smooth and solid it has to be done in co-operation between the two separate groups to give the player a consistent bunch of messages on what they are supposed to be doing.
Yeah. But I wouldn't be massively surprised if the 'global message', in the England camp during the ODIs in preparation for the winter especially wasn't 'batsmen don't like it up 'em and we want all our big tall fast bowlers to be as nasty as possible.'
Right brothers and sisters, its a new day and time to put the travails of yesterday behind us. Two quick wickets and then time for the batters to show their undoubted class. Bat until lunch tomorrow, collect 3 or 4 batting points and we should be safe. No one day shots, no rushes of blood to head, keep an eye on the clock, be patient. For today at least, time is on our side.
Tend to agree with you AG. He has spent most of the last 6 weeks with England and at the moment they appear to have an obsession with big boys bowling back of a length. Unfortunately Jove is nothing like the physical stature of Rankin, Tremlett, Finn etc and currently lacks the control to stay the right side of the "short of a length / short" line.
Can't help feeling that the televised Warks match did him no favours at all.
Can't help feeling that the televised Warks match did him no favours at all.
Today has to be the most important of the whole season. For once the top order HAS to perform or we are in serious trouble.
Perhaps Jamie was just trying too hard to prove that he doesn't need to spend all winter concentrating on "strength and conditioning".
And in a way he has; by proving that he needs to spend the winter concentrating on honing his cricketing skills!
And in a way he has; by proving that he needs to spend the winter concentrating on honing his cricketing skills!
NBJ If you haven't yet sent your instructions by e-mail to the club PLEASE do so immediately so they all have it drummed into their heads before play starts today.
If there was ever a day for playing sensibly then it is TODAY. 400 runs in 110 overs is the minimum that is required from the Somerset batting line-up.
If there was ever a day for playing sensibly then it is TODAY. 400 runs in 110 overs is the minimum that is required from the Somerset batting line-up.
Well Grockle, if we can't score 300 and then grind out a draw, then we deserve to be relegated.
Unfortunately I shall be out of contact for the rest of the match. I might then try avoid all news media for six months, confident that Somerset will be still in Division One at the start of the 2014 season.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Let's not be too harsh on Jamie, the fire and passion he showed yesterday is something we've been missing all year....he'll learn, he'll understand the importance of keeping his head, but that'll come with age, support and experience.
Let's hope we show the same passion today, for today really is the most important day of our season.
Let's hope we show the same passion today, for today really is the most important day of our season.
Have we been missing fire and passion, BJ?
I would suggest that our prime failing has been a lack of composure under enemy fire - batsmen simply not delivering when under pressure.
Will that composure be there today?
And how soon will we find out?
Chawla's primary virtue with the ball had been, IMO, wiping out opposing tails. Somebody else will have to do that job today but at least Hussey has gone, thank God.
Hussey played for parts of nine seasons with Notts, apparently, and they said that prior to yesterday's knock he'd average 61 across that time..... a pretty darned good effort.
I would suggest that our prime failing has been a lack of composure under enemy fire - batsmen simply not delivering when under pressure.
Will that composure be there today?
And how soon will we find out?
Chawla's primary virtue with the ball had been, IMO, wiping out opposing tails. Somebody else will have to do that job today but at least Hussey has gone, thank God.
Hussey played for parts of nine seasons with Notts, apparently, and they said that prior to yesterday's knock he'd average 61 across that time..... a pretty darned good effort.
Quote:AGod
FE - please accept a certain amount of apologies from me for my 21:54.
A frustrating day.
Not a problem.
You'd like to think that there was some joined up thinking when it comes to the coaching being provied by club and country. But from the grumbles that eminate from Angus Fraer that certainly isn't the case when it comes to the resolution of Finn's problems with his run up/delivery stride.
I would feel sorry for Derbyshire if the weather denied them the chance to fight for a win. I can't see Warks repeating their tactics in the Surrey match to engineer a result.
This delay can only be good for us. Remember that Derbyshire must not only win, but equal or better our first innings points tally, presuming we lose, which is less likely too with rain. We just need to bat adequately and we should survive, the probl being that there is no guarantee on this season's evidence that we will bat adequately!
Forecast to dry up but remain very heavily overcast as per Beeb.
If I was Notts, I think that I would declare the moment they get to 400 (if they do) so as to be bowling in the gloom at a Somerset batting line-up that is unlikely to be chock-full of confidence.
If I was Notts, I think that I would declare the moment they get to 400 (if they do) so as to be bowling in the gloom at a Somerset batting line-up that is unlikely to be chock-full of confidence.
No play before lunch at either TB or Derby according to Cricinfo.
Well feels like it's a mid-summer day in Somerset, brilliant sunny day, 18c in the shade and climbing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:12:01:05 by Mike TA1.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:12:01:05 by Mike TA1.
Lovely in Bristol too. Just proves what we already knew, the west country is the best..
A draw doesn't guarantee us safety, if we fail to get the last bowling point and drop three or more batting points, it leaves the door open. Even then, if we need the 4 points to stay up, there could be a lot of pressure on us batting last to hold out. Derbys need batting points to put pressure on us though.
If they get their bowling point and we don't they could still stay up if neither of us gets any batting points. Could be Sir Alec's famous SBT!
If they get their bowling point and we don't they could still stay up if neither of us gets any batting points. Could be Sir Alec's famous SBT!
Who's going to get the extra point.. both, neither... both running it close now!
406 all out in just under 110 overs. The match fix allegations will no doubt be rife.
Which means if we score 400 in under 110 overs, we are safe.
Derbyshire have to score over 200 first time around, or they are relegated.
Derbyshire have to score over 200 first time around, or they are relegated.
In fact we just have to match Derbyshire's first innings batting points total I think?
OK so far today - now PLEASE don't let us be 0 for 1 again - pretty please !
I take back everything I said last week about Warks too, and everything I've ever said about Woakes. I'm now a fan for life.
We appear to be batting paralysed by fear.
We appear to be batting paralysed by fear.
Warks may have to do the hard work for us because I'm not at all sure that our batsmen will manage to dig us out of this hole.
Kudos to Alf and Chris Woakes! Ironic that we have been given the opportunity to bat ourselves to safety!
So putting Madsen in my fantasy team as some sort of insurance has worked well...
Outstanding work, SP, well done!
(He's in one of mine too, but I can't claim the credit it as he's been in it for about 7 or 8 weeks).
(He's in one of mine too, but I can't claim the credit it as he's been in it for about 7 or 8 weeks).
If we lose our match, they should cancel our player of the year bash and instead post the award to Chris Woakes as he's done rather more to keep us up this season than Tresco and most of the rest of our batsmen.
Maybe we should be looking at Chambers if Warks don't sign him up permanently.
Marcus is my favourite ever player & bear in mind I saw a few matches as a kid when Botham was still playing, but this is horrible to watch. Pretty much every time I've seen him this year he's been back before he's got started, I even missed him completely at one of the T20's.
But I checked the averages before I started writing about how he needs to drop down the order or see whether Abell might be ready & found he's still done better than Hildreth this year. So I'm not sure what to say now so I'll say nothing.
But I checked the averages before I started writing about how he needs to drop down the order or see whether Abell might be ready & found he's still done better than Hildreth this year. So I'm not sure what to say now so I'll say nothing.
Tumbles - I suspect that Graeme Welch is in the box seat to take Chambers to Warks, a la Chris Wright.
Yes, if I didn't know better, I'd wonder if our guys were listening to the commentary from Derby and the news of 14 for 4 took the pressure off and uncorked the runs....
I'd hope we only tell them if and when Derby fail to get to 200.
Either that or Notts are bowling buffet to us and we'll both stay up as a result of a high scoring draw
Either that or Notts are bowling buffet to us and we'll both stay up as a result of a high scoring draw
Unless Derby make a miraculous recovery they won't avoid the follow on . If that happens they are unlikely to win. If they don't win they can't equal the points total we started with. We owe Warwick and it nearly makes up for them failing to lose the last wicket in April
Well played these two, 100+ partnership and Derby have lost a 5th
We could well be safe by stumps.
We could well be safe by stumps.
Don't forget that Warwick were 18 for 2 so a regular 2 down for under 20 doesn't have to be a disaster. If we had been bold we could have opened with Overton and Thomas. Then if we had been 10 for 2 we would not have bee disheartened, and if we got to 35 for 2 we would think we had done well.
Did Hildreth really just hit a no ball out of the park.. the letter spotted 8 just appeared on my scorecard.
Northants promoted. What a fantastic season they've had. Very pleasing, a well run club embracing youngsters and not overpaid mercenaries (take note, Surrey)
Very pleased about Northants. Agree with your remarks, Tumbles.
If we stay up I'm even more pleased as they are within fairly easy reach for me!
If we stay up I'm even more pleased as they are within fairly easy reach for me!
Somerset RR last ten overs, 6.80. Steady, Lads.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:16:42:04 by Tumbles.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:16:42:04 by Tumbles.
Hildy hits an 8!! You've got to love that man! Still struggling to believe that he has been worse than the Boss this year.
Jimmy's season has now surpassed the Boss - 794 runs to 790. Jimmy at a higher average even if he is dismissed in this innings.
Things are looking safer by the minute.
There is no question that Tres's season has been dismal on all fronts (and his 2 - LBW again lloks pretty forlorn in the light of what has followed) but let us remember now we are less stressed perhaps - MT is not to blame for the season we have had.
Every top batsman has to have a bad trot some time, and one in the last 14 years is a pretty good record.
If there are physical reasons for his decline so next year is disappointing (or worse) too, let's get off his back and remember him for the fantastic cricketer he has been through 20 years, and everything he has meant and still means to us.
I believe he will be back. Even a physically limited Tres can still terrorise batsman for a few years yet.
He will remain my all time favourite cricketer because he is ours, and has given us all a Somerset player to be proud of on all fronts on a world cricket stage.
If we are safe by stumps Tres, and even if we're not, relax tonight and know your real fans will never turn on you whatever shortcomings there have been this year.
There is no question that Tres's season has been dismal on all fronts (and his 2 - LBW again lloks pretty forlorn in the light of what has followed) but let us remember now we are less stressed perhaps - MT is not to blame for the season we have had.
Every top batsman has to have a bad trot some time, and one in the last 14 years is a pretty good record.
If there are physical reasons for his decline so next year is disappointing (or worse) too, let's get off his back and remember him for the fantastic cricketer he has been through 20 years, and everything he has meant and still means to us.
I believe he will be back. Even a physically limited Tres can still terrorise batsman for a few years yet.
He will remain my all time favourite cricketer because he is ours, and has given us all a Somerset player to be proud of on all fronts on a world cricket stage.
If we are safe by stumps Tres, and even if we're not, relax tonight and know your real fans will never turn on you whatever shortcomings there have been this year.
Can I echo every word of Steve Cav and congratulate James on a ton at just the right time
Very well played, the Emperor - and Compo too.
A good thing that the umpires shoed some common sense and stayed on long enough for JH to reach his century.
And well said, stevecav.
A good thing that the umpires shoed some common sense and stayed on long enough for JH to reach his century.
And well said, stevecav.
I think we can sleep reasonably well tonight. Not quite over the line, but it's within sight.
And the roof has very nearly fallen in on poor old Derbyshire.
A shame that it couldn't be only Surrey that went down!
A shame that it couldn't be only Surrey that went down!
Yes, I think many Somerset followers feel like that, AGod.
Clearly if it's us or them for the drop we want it to be Derbyshire, but we have absolutely nothing against that county.
Clearly if it's us or them for the drop we want it to be Derbyshire, but we have absolutely nothing against that county.
Well can I add a miserable note then & moan that James waited til I'd had to leave to start whacking the ball around like his old self again. And I'm back at work tomorrow so will miss any CK/JB efforts tomorrow going for batting points too. Not happy having got there really early too.
Roll on Friday, when this wretched season for Somerset CCC will have finally come to an end.
Well said Steve. The faith has been tested this season one has to admit - are the green shoots of something new in there? We'll have to wait for the off season to contemplate that in more detail.
Despite CP's comment remember people that it hasn't all been totally bad.
There were years in the past when a T20 Quarter Final and a one day Semi would have been seen as progress. But as Steve says everyone has to hold their hands up because for the first season in many the squad has been consistent. Unfortunately it has been in how universally bad they have been far too regularly with the bat.
We still stand in the twilight zone between first and second division County cricket but the saddest part of all this is that we have to hope another county plays worse than we do to save our season. We could take a leaf from the Northants playbook this season because they looked a totally focussed unit in the T20 finals and fully deserve to be a top level side
We no longer hold that label and we are gong to have to work very hard at getting it back because we've most definitely used our get out of jail free card this year if we beat the drop. Sorry Derbyshire - there were times this month when I really thought we truly deserved to go into the second division. Maybe we still do. I personally wouldn't begrudge you getting over the line before us though I'll be raying tonight that we have enough strength in the tips of our fingers to pull ourselves back from the abyss. On that note well played James and Nick - better late than never Mr Hildreth.
Despite CP's comment remember people that it hasn't all been totally bad.
There were years in the past when a T20 Quarter Final and a one day Semi would have been seen as progress. But as Steve says everyone has to hold their hands up because for the first season in many the squad has been consistent. Unfortunately it has been in how universally bad they have been far too regularly with the bat.
We still stand in the twilight zone between first and second division County cricket but the saddest part of all this is that we have to hope another county plays worse than we do to save our season. We could take a leaf from the Northants playbook this season because they looked a totally focussed unit in the T20 finals and fully deserve to be a top level side
We no longer hold that label and we are gong to have to work very hard at getting it back because we've most definitely used our get out of jail free card this year if we beat the drop. Sorry Derbyshire - there were times this month when I really thought we truly deserved to go into the second division. Maybe we still do. I personally wouldn't begrudge you getting over the line before us though I'll be raying tonight that we have enough strength in the tips of our fingers to pull ourselves back from the abyss. On that note well played James and Nick - better late than never Mr Hildreth.
Extremely unlikely, but there are circumstances in which Notts could suddenly find themselves more vulnerable than us to a Derbys revival. Chanders would have to go on one and we would have to bat really well, but.....
Abell
Compton
Kieswetter
Hildreth
Barrow
Meschede
Trego (c)
Gregory
Leach
Overton
Overton
Wouldn't it be great if a line up like this was going strong in a couple of years time. Jones can take Craig's spot when he's playing for England & Dibble likewise for Jove & I've not thought about overseas player yet
And I truly hope Marcus can come back for a better year next year.
Compton
Kieswetter
Hildreth
Barrow
Meschede
Trego (c)
Gregory
Leach
Overton
Overton
Wouldn't it be great if a line up like this was going strong in a couple of years time. Jones can take Craig's spot when he's playing for England & Dibble likewise for Jove & I've not thought about overseas player yet
And I truly hope Marcus can come back for a better year next year.
An excellent day - not out of the woods yet, but daylight is in sight. 3-30 first up this morning; lost Tres and CJ in the floodlit gloom before NC and JH ripped along at over 4 an over. 180-2 seemed unlikely mid-afternoon, but brilliant from Nick and James - sounds like a great 100! I assume the sun came out?
...and we all seem a bit happier don't we?!
PS I've had a word with cousin Chander and he's keen we help him send Notts down...
...and we all seem a bit happier don't we?!
PS I've had a word with cousin Chander and he's keen we help him send Notts down...
Great day all round, we are safe!
Only thing that could hurt us is a contrived finish at Derby, but currently only thing likely is Derby follow on and stand no chance realistically of winning.
And the way we are set up we look good for a 9 point draw anyway.
If we were in Derbyshires position we would all be giving up and calling for the entire squad, management, tealady etc to be sacked.
I fully expect it to be mathematically 99.9% certain as early as tomorrow tea time.
Only thing that could hurt us is a contrived finish at Derby, but currently only thing likely is Derby follow on and stand no chance realistically of winning.
And the way we are set up we look good for a 9 point draw anyway.
If we were in Derbyshires position we would all be giving up and calling for the entire squad, management, tealady etc to be sacked.
I fully expect it to be mathematically 99.9% certain as early as tomorrow tea time.
Just got in to check the score & b***dy well done James !
So often, he hasn't stood up when it counted, but today he certainly must have done so. A very welcome relief.
Less unexpectedly, well done also to Nick (as well as Warwickshire for helping us, & Northants on their promotion).
Hopefully, we will now stay up, but we have a lot of difficult decisions to make across the winter, including the Captaincy & opening batting issues.
The status quo is simply not tenable in my view.
Grizzzly
So often, he hasn't stood up when it counted, but today he certainly must have done so. A very welcome relief.
Less unexpectedly, well done also to Nick (as well as Warwickshire for helping us, & Northants on their promotion).
Hopefully, we will now stay up, but we have a lot of difficult decisions to make across the winter, including the Captaincy & opening batting issues.
The status quo is simply not tenable in my view.
Grizzzly
if Derby win from this position that will be no good for them they also need batting points, at 44 for 5 that will take some doing.
If Derby are out for less than 200 that's it.
If Derby are out for less than 200 that's it.
Quote:I wasn't referring to our likely league position after the match EB.edinburghbil
Extremely unlikely, but there are circumstances in which Notts could suddenly find themselves more vulnerable than us to a Derbys revival. Chanders would have to go on one and we would have to bat really well, but.....
Grizzzly, I have been told without being given any detail there is going to be a bit shake up next month.
What ever that involves!!
What ever that involves!!
In theory Mike they "could" bat all day and get to around 400-7/8.
Then get a further lead Friday and then bowl Warwickshire out but that is so far fetched it is ridiculous.
As you say if they were to get bowled out under 200, then the most they could get is then 18 points and we already have the 3 bowling points we'd need to beat that.
As I say we are safe, if you went to a bookies and asked them for odds on Derby staying up they would laugh at you!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:20:43:47 by wsm fan.
Then get a further lead Friday and then bowl Warwickshire out but that is so far fetched it is ridiculous.
As you say if they were to get bowled out under 200, then the most they could get is then 18 points and we already have the 3 bowling points we'd need to beat that.
As I say we are safe, if you went to a bookies and asked them for odds on Derby staying up they would laugh at you!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:20:43:47 by wsm fan.
It needs a little bit more than "a shake-up" Mike but I suppose its a start.
Yep, thanks to cricinfo up-dated table it is easy to see [www.espncricinfo.com]
Quote:As I say we are safe, if you went to a bookies and asked them for odds on Derby staying up they would laugh at you!!!
Bet they'd still take your money, though!
The day could scarcely have gone better for us.
We are safe and if this was a US Presidential election, Derby would be conceding right now.
Well played to all concerned but please don't put us through this again!
We are safe and if this was a US Presidential election, Derby would be conceding right now.
Well played to all concerned but please don't put us through this again!
Quote:Mike TA1
Grizzzly, I have been told without being given any detail there is going to be a bit shake up next month.
What ever that involves!!
Very interesting, Mike!!
Are you able to clarify whether you were told that it would be "a bit", of a shake-up or a "big," shake-up?
Personally, I think the key questions to be asked by DN & CO (and hopefully answered satisfactorily) are:
a) What can we do differently in terms of preparation to ensure that we don't get into a rut with our batting next season?
and
b) What can we do to increase the resilience of our batsmen so that IF we end up in a rut again, there's a greater chance of them being able to quickly climb out of said rut instead of getting stuck in it?
One even wonders, to an extent, whether this 2013 season was an extreme and elongated version of our usual tendency of being very slow starters?
Assuming that we draw or win this match, then you have to say that the second half of our CC season will - in terms of overall results - have been perfectly presentable - something which could not be said for the first half results!
a) What can we do differently in terms of preparation to ensure that we don't get into a rut with our batting next season?
and
b) What can we do to increase the resilience of our batsmen so that IF we end up in a rut again, there's a greater chance of them being able to quickly climb out of said rut instead of getting stuck in it?
One even wonders, to an extent, whether this 2013 season was an extreme and elongated version of our usual tendency of being very slow starters?
Assuming that we draw or win this match, then you have to say that the second half of our CC season will - in terms of overall results - have been perfectly presentable - something which could not be said for the first half results!
Do you expect Craig Overton to have particular input in those discussions with Dave Nosworthy?
AG, we all know something has got to change, the big question is what will they be.
I started to list some of the changes I would like to see then I changed my mind I will wait and see what happens.
That's all we can do.
I started to list some of the changes I would like to see then I changed my mind I will wait and see what happens.
That's all we can do.
Quote:stevecav
If there are physical reasons for his decline so next year is disappointing (or worse) too, let's get off his back and remember him for the fantastic cricketer he has been through 20 years, and everything he has meant and still means to us.
I believe he will be back. Even a physically limited Tres can still terrorise batsman for a few years yet.
He will remain my all time favourite cricketer because he is ours, and has given us all a Somerset player to be proud of on all fronts on a world cricket stage.
If we are safe by stumps Tres, and even if we're not, relax tonight and know your real fans will never turn on you whatever shortcomings there have been this year.
Casomer and I were there today with Tractor and his mate.
An interesting three hours. Good day for us. Very sorry about Marcus - but like so many times this season, his now vunerability to the new ball is becoming embarrassing. The fact that still on occasions he really blasts the ball to the boundary, or over it, IMO means that batting in the middle order would enable him to carry on batting for us for several years yet. Whether he would want that of course, is an open question!
By the way would all those naughty pupils who put their hands up in class earlier this season to say that we definitely would be relegated, please put their hands up straight again AND report for their punishment in the common room!!!
Mike - I think AG is just asking for clarification as to whether your comment " a bit shake up" (which doesn't make sense) was meant to be "a big shake-up" or "a bit of a shake-up" - two quite different things!
I'm also interested in which of these is what you were told...
Thanks
SP
PS Personally, I'd be happy with "a bit of a shake-up", as long as they were the right bits
I'm also interested in which of these is what you were told...
Thanks
SP
PS Personally, I'd be happy with "a bit of a shake-up", as long as they were the right bits
It does depend on what you would call a bit or big shake-up.
If we got a new captain a batting and bowling coach got a new opening batsman from somewhere else, I would say that would be a start of a big shake-up.
You could maybe add a few more to that list.
Until we hear of any or none of those things happening we will have to wait and see.
All that I have listed is some of the changes I would like to see happen.
If we got a new captain a batting and bowling coach got a new opening batsman from somewhere else, I would say that would be a start of a big shake-up.
You could maybe add a few more to that list.
Until we hear of any or none of those things happening we will have to wait and see.
All that I have listed is some of the changes I would like to see happen.
Until they have had the inquest on the season, which we were told will take place next month,we can only speculate.
Big shake up, small shake up, depends how you view the situation.
We know who have new contracts, we don't know yet if 1 player will move on.
Will Marcus's status change, or will they be forced on him, or will it be Status Quo as far as his position is concerned.
Additions to the squad, bowling coach, batting coach?
Whatever changes take place it will not satisfy all.
Starter for me is to stay in Division 1
Big shake up, small shake up, depends how you view the situation.
We know who have new contracts, we don't know yet if 1 player will move on.
Will Marcus's status change, or will they be forced on him, or will it be Status Quo as far as his position is concerned.
Additions to the squad, bowling coach, batting coach?
Whatever changes take place it will not satisfy all.
Starter for me is to stay in Division 1
Having noticed speculation about shake-ups etc I'm happy to clarify our current position and in so doing scotch these rumours which serve neither individuals nor the Club's best interests.
There will be a formal review of our cricket performance by the cricket committee which takes place after the season's close. We have done this every season since I've been involved ie back to 2004.
The process is in stages: analysis, thought & debate, conclusions, recommendations & approvals and then - and only then - implementation. The analysis hasn't started yet so it follows it's a little previous for anyone to be suggesting any conclusions have been drawn let alone shake-ups decided upon.
Our current priority is to win the game at Trent Bridge and finish the season on a positive note. As has been said earlier in this thread, if we finish 6th in LVCC 1 as well as having reached the KO stages of both limited over competitions, the season will only be a disappointment against the very high standards we had come to set ourselves.
I hope to see several of you at the end of season Awards dinner on Monday. As ever, looking back there's much to reflect upon and celebrate while there's already a great deal to look forward to in the next 12 months.
There will be a formal review of our cricket performance by the cricket committee which takes place after the season's close. We have done this every season since I've been involved ie back to 2004.
The process is in stages: analysis, thought & debate, conclusions, recommendations & approvals and then - and only then - implementation. The analysis hasn't started yet so it follows it's a little previous for anyone to be suggesting any conclusions have been drawn let alone shake-ups decided upon.
Our current priority is to win the game at Trent Bridge and finish the season on a positive note. As has been said earlier in this thread, if we finish 6th in LVCC 1 as well as having reached the KO stages of both limited over competitions, the season will only be a disappointment against the very high standards we had come to set ourselves.
I hope to see several of you at the end of season Awards dinner on Monday. As ever, looking back there's much to reflect upon and celebrate while there's already a great deal to look forward to in the next 12 months.
Very happy day spent at Trent Bridge. It is always a pleasure to watch Jimmy bat and it always feels very precious when I have had the privilege of watching him get a big score. Nick also batted very well. One gripe. The apathy of the ground staff and umpires was staggering. The rain had stopped for 40 mins before any mopping up began, and the umpires declared an early lunch without even going out to inspect. The rain early on was not so heavy and if it had been a test match they would have been playing 45 mins earlier. It's no wonder fans drift away from county cricket if the officials that gain their living from the game don't care about the fans.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:23:06:45 by 9th brother Dredge.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:25:23:06:45 by 9th brother Dredge.
Well, one obvious counter-point to the above might be that if we are to recruit any new players from outside the club then that might not be a decision that could simply be put off until the end of what our Chairman has implied might be a fairly drawn-out review process?
Players that we might be interested in signing would probably want to sort their futures out fairly soon after the end of the season?
Presumably if there is a good player that we know is available and that DN wishes to sign we're not going to have to go through a long review process before 'making our move' ....
Players that we might be interested in signing would probably want to sort their futures out fairly soon after the end of the season?
Presumably if there is a good player that we know is available and that DN wishes to sign we're not going to have to go through a long review process before 'making our move' ....
Dredge - I wonder if a marked delay in mopping up and what have you may attract attention from Mr Piggott?
Somerset, of course, have zero responsibility for mopping up at Trent Bridge so I don't think he'll be looking at us but might Notts end up in some sort of trouble if Piggott thinks Notts were happy to stay off the field and so didn't ask their ground staff to mop up promptly?
Somerset, of course, have zero responsibility for mopping up at Trent Bridge so I don't think he'll be looking at us but might Notts end up in some sort of trouble if Piggott thinks Notts were happy to stay off the field and so didn't ask their ground staff to mop up promptly?
Many thanks, 57deacon, for your comments here.
They are appreciated by many, and eill actually be taken at face value by a few!
They are appreciated by many, and eill actually be taken at face value by a few!
Excellent to have some facts posted on here amongst all our idle speculation.
Nothing ground-breaking in our Chairmans comments, pretty much as you'd have expected things to happen i'd say.
I agree that I very much hope any review process and time spent coming to out findings does not hinder any potential recruits coming in.
These next 2 or 3 weeks are when the majority (of which I expect there to be only a handful) will be sorting their futures.
If we don't conclude on our review until say early November, then there is very unlikely to be much out there to go and recruit!
We know we have lost Arul, we are expecting to lose VERY sadly Jos, and many of us expect Hussain to move on. Meschede and Gregory have improved, but to me have not yet proved they warrant a place at 7 let alone in top 6.
We already had Jones and Barrow, neither of who average above 26. There are 2 batting spaces to me which need filling, ideally with proven quality but at the very least to provide cover and competition.
We haven't had the option to drop poorly performing batsmen as there have not been any.
Nothing ground-breaking in our Chairmans comments, pretty much as you'd have expected things to happen i'd say.
I agree that I very much hope any review process and time spent coming to out findings does not hinder any potential recruits coming in.
These next 2 or 3 weeks are when the majority (of which I expect there to be only a handful) will be sorting their futures.
If we don't conclude on our review until say early November, then there is very unlikely to be much out there to go and recruit!
We know we have lost Arul, we are expecting to lose VERY sadly Jos, and many of us expect Hussain to move on. Meschede and Gregory have improved, but to me have not yet proved they warrant a place at 7 let alone in top 6.
We already had Jones and Barrow, neither of who average above 26. There are 2 batting spaces to me which need filling, ideally with proven quality but at the very least to provide cover and competition.
We haven't had the option to drop poorly performing batsmen as there have not been any.
Understand & appreciate what Mr Nash has posted above, albeit the first four stages of "The process" may have already been (partially !) completed by many on this board. 
.
Patience never was my strong point !
Grizzzly
.
Patience never was my strong point !
Grizzzly
Lets hope finishing 6th does not paper any cracks. Much to be done in my view and has been well said by many above needs remedied as quickly as possible.
Yes, Ron. And I'm not convinced that there is much to 'celebrate', from this season as per our Chairman's comments.
I agree that we've generally set high standards in previous seasons but then as one of the counties with the highest player wage bills then we should expect to be amongst the leading Counties, otherwise the club would not be getting bang for its buck.
And, yes, I'm well aware that this season's highest wage payer will be appearing at a Div Two ground near you very soon....
I agree that we've generally set high standards in previous seasons but then as one of the counties with the highest player wage bills then we should expect to be amongst the leading Counties, otherwise the club would not be getting bang for its buck.
And, yes, I'm well aware that this season's highest wage payer will be appearing at a Div Two ground near you very soon....
wsm - agree completely with your 23:50.
And to clarify I don't expect the process that our Chairman described to actually put off any recruitment from the outside. I expect that we'll have already been looking around, just as Warks and others have been....After all, one suspects that the process that Mr Nash describes is hardly unique to Somerset and that cricket committees at other Counties will also be conducting reviews of their seasons (the one at Surrey should be pretty lively!!)
I also doubt that the club would need a long review process to conclude that if two batsmen are being subtracted from the squad then.............
And to clarify I don't expect the process that our Chairman described to actually put off any recruitment from the outside. I expect that we'll have already been looking around, just as Warks and others have been....After all, one suspects that the process that Mr Nash describes is hardly unique to Somerset and that cricket committees at other Counties will also be conducting reviews of their seasons (the one at Surrey should be pretty lively!!)
I also doubt that the club would need a long review process to conclude that if two batsmen are being subtracted from the squad then.............
I would have thought that despite the tone of Chairman's post, there must be some extra urgency attached to the process this year given our performances, and the consistency of our failings. The process need not be drawn-out and should, as some above have noted, be timed to let us operate effectively in the transfer market. I suspect however that the Board, the Cricket Committee and management already know what is needed, and that the post simply attempts to quell fevered debate. I'm all for fevered debate, it's what these fan sites were invented for!!! Get the finger out lads, and make some big decisions, thats the way to appease the masses!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:08:03:05 by North Berwick John.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:08:03:05 by North Berwick John.
"Lester" is Tony Pigott's long-standing nickname (as it is I suspect for every male with the surname Pigott).
AG, who is the high-paid player who will be on a Div Two ground soon?
AG, who is the high-paid player who will be on a Div Two ground soon?
Rio Ferdinand? Wayne Rooney?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:07:43:32 by North Berwick John.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:07:43:32 by North Berwick John.
AG, who is the high-paid player who will be on a Div Two ground soon?[/quote]
I assumed he meant the whole of Surrey
I assumed he meant the whole of Surrey
Well don't know what that is about but here FWIW is my attempted pen picture of yesterday.
Ten miles from Trent Bridge the rain closed in, the SatNav (and its operator) became amnesiac, and road works, blocks and diversions spread like a rash. But suddenly the gleaming spires of Trent Bridge pierced the sky, the sun tried to do likewise, a steward found us a parking place, there was a pitch inspection, and Alf mopped up the tail almost before Tractor's babbies could be C'monned.
Our innings was a three part affair: the first enveloped in nerve twisting silence pierced by Nottingham screams. The openers failed and trudged up the steps just to the right of us, one after the other, heads down. We tried to convey our empathy with their misery.
Slowly Compo's solid defence began to win the next phase and if Hildy was not altogether convincing mostly he got the line right. Normal conversation resumed. We were briefly sympathetic if not sad on hearing about the deepening Derby plight, but our runs were starting to come more convincingly, the short boundary on the Trent Bridge Inn side giving fielders no chance. Patel did succeed in tying Compton down at one end, but opened the opportunity for Hildreth to play some now gloriously confident shots at the other. Echoes of their partnership against Warwickshire last year.
The sun emerged briefly, and yells of delight came from the Somerset dressing room behind us as Hildreth notched up a very timely ton. A tennis lob from him over the short square boundary, next a portly fielder flopped like a whale at long off, missing altogether. But the entertainment was cut short as the floodlights slowly re-emerged as the prime light source. Time for a natter with Tractor and friends before departure. Great day.
Ten miles from Trent Bridge the rain closed in, the SatNav (and its operator) became amnesiac, and road works, blocks and diversions spread like a rash. But suddenly the gleaming spires of Trent Bridge pierced the sky, the sun tried to do likewise, a steward found us a parking place, there was a pitch inspection, and Alf mopped up the tail almost before Tractor's babbies could be C'monned.
Our innings was a three part affair: the first enveloped in nerve twisting silence pierced by Nottingham screams. The openers failed and trudged up the steps just to the right of us, one after the other, heads down. We tried to convey our empathy with their misery.
Slowly Compo's solid defence began to win the next phase and if Hildy was not altogether convincing mostly he got the line right. Normal conversation resumed. We were briefly sympathetic if not sad on hearing about the deepening Derby plight, but our runs were starting to come more convincingly, the short boundary on the Trent Bridge Inn side giving fielders no chance. Patel did succeed in tying Compton down at one end, but opened the opportunity for Hildreth to play some now gloriously confident shots at the other. Echoes of their partnership against Warwickshire last year.
The sun emerged briefly, and yells of delight came from the Somerset dressing room behind us as Hildreth notched up a very timely ton. A tennis lob from him over the short square boundary, next a portly fielder flopped like a whale at long off, missing altogether. But the entertainment was cut short as the floodlights slowly re-emerged as the prime light source. Time for a natter with Tractor and friends before departure. Great day.
Never trusted that Tony Pigott since he signed for us and then changed his mind a few days later! Must have been 1984 or 1985. Arguably one of the lesser known issues that led to the imfamous 'meeting at Shepton Mallet'.
In terms of availability of players we may consider signing - the speed of that process has little to do with us as we can only put in bids once they have made themselves available.
One would assume that if a player with some kind of value to Somerset does come onto the market, the management won't go "damn we can't sign him, we haven't finished our assessment yet". They will obviously react to the availability at the time and build that into the implementation plans.
If you have a pretty good idea what needs to be done AG, I think the people in charge at SCCC may have a similar picture in their heads and won't be completely unable to make decisions until an assessment process has fully taken place.
This whole thing will be an action plan not some kind of fixed administrative process operated by some kind of cricket civil service.
One would assume that if a player with some kind of value to Somerset does come onto the market, the management won't go "damn we can't sign him, we haven't finished our assessment yet". They will obviously react to the availability at the time and build that into the implementation plans.
If you have a pretty good idea what needs to be done AG, I think the people in charge at SCCC may have a similar picture in their heads and won't be completely unable to make decisions until an assessment process has fully taken place.
This whole thing will be an action plan not some kind of fixed administrative process operated by some kind of cricket civil service.
Eckersley who can keep wicket, but prefers not to (his words) should surely be Somerset's number 1 target.
Handy if Kieswtter and Barrow not available to keep wicket- but wants to make his name batting at number 3- where he scored over 1200 runs at an average of 53.
Just don't spend the next four weeks reviewing the season, before deciding the way forward- because, if you do that, someone else is bound to get in first.
Handy if Kieswtter and Barrow not available to keep wicket- but wants to make his name batting at number 3- where he scored over 1200 runs at an average of 53.
Just don't spend the next four weeks reviewing the season, before deciding the way forward- because, if you do that, someone else is bound to get in first.
That's a lovely report, Casomer, it describes quite beautifully why cricket is without doubt the finest game in the world.
Let's get over the line before we start talking about finishing sixth, boys and girls, for as we all know, fortunes can change in the blink of an eye....on the whisper of the breeze.
Let's get over the line before we start talking about finishing sixth, boys and girls, for as we all know, fortunes can change in the blink of an eye....on the whisper of the breeze.
SP - I said highest wage payer, not highest wage recipient!!!
The highest wage payers are your favourite county, and THEY will be appearing on Division Two grounds as soon as next season!
The highest wage payers are your favourite county, and THEY will be appearing on Division Two grounds as soon as next season!
Grockle - as regards the timing of approaches to players?
I believe the rule is that approaches can be (officially) made at any point after a date that is exactly one month before the season is due to end.
Therefore, I would suspect that if we were going to make any approaches, then initial contact will already have been made and very probably contracts offered, too.
What I was trying to get at with my post is that I think that what Mr Nash was mainly wanting to communicate was that any suggestion that the club has already decided on a raft of major internal changes is wide of the mark.
But I'm not taking that to mean there will be no news of any kind from Somerset until this review is completed.
I don't doubt that the way we will operate (along with all the other clubs) is that Dave Nosworthy will have been given a playing budget to operate within and that if he identifies a player that can be brought in that fits under that budget, then the power/responsibility to make that call of bringing somebody in is delegated to him.
It won't be a case of going through some labyrinthine committee process before DN is authorised to make an approach. Otherwise, we'd only ever be able to sign guys that nobody else wanted.
So, irrespective of whether or not there does prove to eventually be any kind of internal "shake-up," (and I strongly suspect that there will NOT be), we might (hopefully) receive news of incoming re-inforcements within the next couple of weeks...
I believe the rule is that approaches can be (officially) made at any point after a date that is exactly one month before the season is due to end.
Therefore, I would suspect that if we were going to make any approaches, then initial contact will already have been made and very probably contracts offered, too.
What I was trying to get at with my post is that I think that what Mr Nash was mainly wanting to communicate was that any suggestion that the club has already decided on a raft of major internal changes is wide of the mark.
But I'm not taking that to mean there will be no news of any kind from Somerset until this review is completed.
I don't doubt that the way we will operate (along with all the other clubs) is that Dave Nosworthy will have been given a playing budget to operate within and that if he identifies a player that can be brought in that fits under that budget, then the power/responsibility to make that call of bringing somebody in is delegated to him.
It won't be a case of going through some labyrinthine committee process before DN is authorised to make an approach. Otherwise, we'd only ever be able to sign guys that nobody else wanted.
So, irrespective of whether or not there does prove to eventually be any kind of internal "shake-up," (and I strongly suspect that there will NOT be), we might (hopefully) receive news of incoming re-inforcements within the next couple of weeks...
Nothing in the deacon's posting suggested that the process need necessarily be "labyrinthine" nor even take an extended period.
I simply took it to mean "Please can we get this season finished first: and please give us the opportunity to discuss things internally before dissecting things too much in public"
I simply took it to mean "Please can we get this season finished first: and please give us the opportunity to discuss things internally before dissecting things too much in public"
Bidding on players never has been a problem - why should it be this time? We've bid on people we think we need - they haven't always come but I can't think of anyone we've missed that we didn't attempt to sign so I can't for the life of me think why the process we've used in the past should be assumed to have suddenly disappeared.
I wouldn't expect loads of new faces - they don't exist to my knowledge presently in the domestic game. I would caution the club against buying people at the "close to retirement" end of the chain. we've been good at it in the past but it is a dodgy market to go into and we have oodles of experience. We need some solid work horses who produce regularly rather than are brillian occasionally.
I wouldn't expect loads of new faces - they don't exist to my knowledge presently in the domestic game. I would caution the club against buying people at the "close to retirement" end of the chain. we've been good at it in the past but it is a dodgy market to go into and we have oodles of experience. We need some solid work horses who produce regularly rather than are brillian occasionally.
I refer you guys to BRT919 post of yesterday at 19.34 listing a team of home grown talent apart from Compo who has become integral to the Somerset set up.
I believe I am right in saying that Somerset's desire was to build a team with home grown talent. That side doesn't look too shoddy to me. Its a credit to the county academy, Jason Kerr, Greg Kennis and the Somerset Youth system that has worked so well in identifying the talent and taking it all the way through to the 1st class game. I am not sure that any county has a better recent record at that than Somerset. That side doesn't include Buttler, although it might; or Dockrell, who Brian Rose identified, or Jones who has struggled recently.
My point is, Somerset are building a very strong nucleus of talented young players, all home grown, who will need first class cricket to maintain progress. In my opinion, the signing of a batting coach and a bowling coach would represent money well spent to support and enhance the abilities of the youngsters Somerset have on their books. Rather that, than an aging pro, another batter wicket keeper(we have 3 on our books, well 4 with Jos) surely.
If a top quality strike bowler with an historically good track record, ideally first division, became available (unlikely I know!) well, ok, I'd think seriously about that. Otherwise, we might take a period of consolidation and in a couple of years time, we might be purring about a side that is built from Somerset roots.
I believe I am right in saying that Somerset's desire was to build a team with home grown talent. That side doesn't look too shoddy to me. Its a credit to the county academy, Jason Kerr, Greg Kennis and the Somerset Youth system that has worked so well in identifying the talent and taking it all the way through to the 1st class game. I am not sure that any county has a better recent record at that than Somerset. That side doesn't include Buttler, although it might; or Dockrell, who Brian Rose identified, or Jones who has struggled recently.
My point is, Somerset are building a very strong nucleus of talented young players, all home grown, who will need first class cricket to maintain progress. In my opinion, the signing of a batting coach and a bowling coach would represent money well spent to support and enhance the abilities of the youngsters Somerset have on their books. Rather that, than an aging pro, another batter wicket keeper(we have 3 on our books, well 4 with Jos) surely.
If a top quality strike bowler with an historically good track record, ideally first division, became available (unlikely I know!) well, ok, I'd think seriously about that. Otherwise, we might take a period of consolidation and in a couple of years time, we might be purring about a side that is built from Somerset roots.
I simply think that we need to strengthen the batting to try and avoid a repeat of this season.
We're down one player (Arul) and can expect to shortly be down a second (Jos).
The only way that it would make sense for the club to not be interested in bringing in batsmen to replace them would surely be if, with hindsight, the club had concluded that they'd made the wrong decision about the number of players with good batting capabilities that we need in our squad.
I, personally, can see absolutely no evidence, on the basis of this season, that this club had too many batsmen contracted for the 2013 season. Rather there was a lack of options to cover loss of form. And there would have been a lack of options to cover injuries in the batting department.
I think the bowling stocks look better, from a numbers stand-point, although obviously we do not currently have a cracker-jack bowler like a Joel Garner, a Caddick or a Mushtaq.. but then which County does!?
We're down one player (Arul) and can expect to shortly be down a second (Jos).
The only way that it would make sense for the club to not be interested in bringing in batsmen to replace them would surely be if, with hindsight, the club had concluded that they'd made the wrong decision about the number of players with good batting capabilities that we need in our squad.
I, personally, can see absolutely no evidence, on the basis of this season, that this club had too many batsmen contracted for the 2013 season. Rather there was a lack of options to cover loss of form. And there would have been a lack of options to cover injuries in the batting department.
I think the bowling stocks look better, from a numbers stand-point, although obviously we do not currently have a cracker-jack bowler like a Joel Garner, a Caddick or a Mushtaq.. but then which County does!?
Quote:just in
I refer you guys to BRT919 post of yesterday at 19.34 listing a team of home grown talent apart from Compo who has become integral to the Somerset set up.
My point is, Somerset are building a very strong nucleus of talented young players, all home grown, who will need first class cricket to maintain progress. In my opinion, the signing of a batting coach and a bowling coach would represent money well spent to support and enhance the abilities of the youngsters Somerset have on their books. Rather that, than an aging pro, another batter wicket keeper(we have 3 on our books, well 4 with Jos) surely.
If a top quality strike bowler with an historically good track record, ideally first division, became available (unlikely I know!) well, ok, I'd think seriously about that. Otherwise, we might take a period of consolidation and in a couple of years time, we might be purring about a side that is built from Somerset roots.
Well said Just In! As I have advocated so many times on this site - with our talented youngsters a Somerset 1st XI made up of Somerset developed players. Taunton should not become a home for additional pension seeking players who are not yet ready to go into the slippery world of FINANCIAL SERVICES!!!
All over, bar the shouting now, as Derbyshire are 92 for 8.
Well done to our guys for extricating themselves in the end.
Well done to Derbyshire for a very spirited fightback in the second half of the season, from an apparently hopeless position. It should be remembered that they cannot compete, financially, with most Counties in Division one.
Surrey got what they deserved, as even Alec Stewart has admitted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:11:46:15 by AGod.
Well done to our guys for extricating themselves in the end.
Well done to Derbyshire for a very spirited fightback in the second half of the season, from an apparently hopeless position. It should be remembered that they cannot compete, financially, with most Counties in Division one.
Surrey got what they deserved, as even Alec Stewart has admitted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:11:46:15 by AGod.
I take no pleasure from Derbyshire's demise, but I am eternally grateful that we are controlling our own destiny. I don't think I could cope with the stress of another nail biter!
And well done to Warwickshire as well, those who questioned their resolve a few short weeks ago need pay them an apology.
It's a big phew!!!!!!
I didn't think this would happen prior to the Middx game. And I was far from convinced that it would happen after we had lost to Derbyshire.
Let's hope that all players winter well, that those with the potential to do so improve and that we can then be rather quicker out of the blocks in 2014...
I didn't think this would happen prior to the Middx game. And I was far from convinced that it would happen after we had lost to Derbyshire.
Let's hope that all players winter well, that those with the potential to do so improve and that we can then be rather quicker out of the blocks in 2014...
Still puzzled by the Jos Buttler situation. Why is he going instead of Kieswetter?
FACT - Jos is almost 3 years younger and therefore more years ahead of him.
FACT - Jos born in Taunton not Johannesburg.
FACT - The England selectors presumably consider he is the better batsman/wicketkeeper in the one day format.
FACT - Jos has performed consistently well for England behind the stumps.
Am I missing something?
FACT - Jos is almost 3 years younger and therefore more years ahead of him.
FACT - Jos born in Taunton not Johannesburg.
FACT - The England selectors presumably consider he is the better batsman/wicketkeeper in the one day format.
FACT - Jos has performed consistently well for England behind the stumps.
Am I missing something?
I think you'll be waiting a while, BJ, before (some) retract the fairly unpleasant things that have been said about Warks in the last couple of weeks.
And did we really control our own destiny in the end? Or did Warks control it for us?
Until we've at least drawn this game, I'm not sure we can convincingly claim that it's the former.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:12:14:18 by Frome Exile.
And did we really control our own destiny in the end? Or did Warks control it for us?
Until we've at least drawn this game, I'm not sure we can convincingly claim that it's the former.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:12:14:18 by Frome Exile.
Ironic it should be 103 all out that seals Derby's fate. Nearly sealed ours!
What a shame Nick couldn't get to 111 in the first innings, will we bat again I wonder.
The captain could come to some agreement to try and get a result if it can't be achieved by normal means.
The captain could come to some agreement to try and get a result if it can't be achieved by normal means.
Got there in the end thank goodness but it was in the end and not a season to remember sad to say.
Hope for better things next season and hope to still be around to enjoy them !
Hope for better things next season and hope to still be around to enjoy them !
Quote:andsom58
Still puzzled by the Jos Buttler situation. Why is he going instead of Kieswetter?
FACT - Jos is almost 3 years younger and therefore more years ahead of him.
FACT - Jos born in Taunton not Johannesburg.
FACT - The England selectors presumably consider he is the better batsman/wicketkeeper in the one day format.
FACT - Jos has performed consistently well for England behind the stumps.
Am I missing something?
Maybe the club realise that he's going to be centrally contracted within 18 months, and that we'll pretty much lose him anyway.. It's possible that we could have lost CK as a result if we solely put faith in JB and then ended up with neither. I don't think the club can win either way
andsom... It might be that the club are taking a punt on the notion that CK will NOT get his England place back but that Jos will become a long-term fixture....
.... in which case the club has a choice between a guy that would be regularly unavailable and a guy that should be available all the time..
However, my personal view is that the idea that this was a totally unavoidable situation that SCCC could do nothing about is not quite correct......
IMO, Somerset should have had Jos batting up the order in short-form cricket for some considerable time and IF we'd have done that, I think there's a strong chance he'd have instead won himself a job as a top four or five BATSMAN for England......... and then we may not have had Ashley Giles publicly agitating for Jos to do lots of keeping.....
.... in which case the club has a choice between a guy that would be regularly unavailable and a guy that should be available all the time..
However, my personal view is that the idea that this was a totally unavoidable situation that SCCC could do nothing about is not quite correct......
IMO, Somerset should have had Jos batting up the order in short-form cricket for some considerable time and IF we'd have done that, I think there's a strong chance he'd have instead won himself a job as a top four or five BATSMAN for England......... and then we may not have had Ashley Giles publicly agitating for Jos to do lots of keeping.....
FE - surely the equation was that if SCCC won its final two games of the season, we'd have been sure of staying up, no?
Doesn't that constitute controlling our own destiny?
Doesn't that constitute controlling our own destiny?
The most significant "thing" that you are missing (although the FACT of how England view their relative strengths is of no interest to me) is that CK is under contract for 2014.
Quote:andsom58
Still puzzled by the Jos Buttler situation. Why is he going instead of Kieswetter?
FACT - Jos is almost 3 years younger and therefore more years ahead of him.
FACT - Jos born in Taunton not Johannesburg.
FACT - The England selectors presumably consider he is the better batsman/wicketkeeper in the one day format.
FACT - Jos has performed consistently well for England behind the stumps.
Am I missing something?
I don't think so
Jos he wants to leave "Andsome" and Craig doesn't.
His age is of little matter - he's a period behind his older colleague if you want to assess him that way.
Where people were born isn't something we look at here - Craig, like Andy Caddick, nailed his colours to Somerset and England long ago so the city he was born in is of NO relevance.
The England selectors assess Carberry as a better four day batsman than Nick Compton so I'm not sure that is a deciding factor in any assessment of who should go or stay.
Craig also acquitted himself well behind the stumps for England - he wasn't dropped because of his keeping just as Jos wasn't picked because of his keeping.
Nobody is getting rid of Jos Buttler. Jos Buttler is choosing to leave - if he does.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:12:34:35 by Grockle.
Worst case scenario is surely Jos goes, and CK gets back in to England fold (which fits with recent signs) and we end up with neither of them available to play for us.
That would be a very poor result from having two such high quality wk/batsman on our books, and a situation somebody should be moving heaven and earth to prevent.
Intractable problem as it may be, that's what 'management' is paid for.
That would be a very poor result from having two such high quality wk/batsman on our books, and a situation somebody should be moving heaven and earth to prevent.
Intractable problem as it may be, that's what 'management' is paid for.
Yes, Steve that scenario may be 'worst-case', but worst-case and impossible are not the same thing, as you obviously realise.
For CK to get back into the England 50 over side then two things would need to happen:
a) He needs to maintain his fine short-cricket form for Somerset.
b) England need to give up on the idea of a Test match type top three being the thing to do in 50 over cricket.
For CK to get back into the England T20 side then all that would need to happen would be for the selectors to decide that he's a better bet than, say, Hales or Lumb. That doesn't seem much of a reach at all, does it?
For CK to get back into the England 50 over side then two things would need to happen:
a) He needs to maintain his fine short-cricket form for Somerset.
b) England need to give up on the idea of a Test match type top three being the thing to do in 50 over cricket.
For CK to get back into the England T20 side then all that would need to happen would be for the selectors to decide that he's a better bet than, say, Hales or Lumb. That doesn't seem much of a reach at all, does it?
So how is choosing Jos over Craig a solution to that problem Steve?
Alex barrow is our solution and good luck to any player that gets a chance to play for his country - Somerset certainly won't be holding them back
Alex barrow is our solution and good luck to any player that gets a chance to play for his country - Somerset certainly won't be holding them back
andsom58 can I just counter some of your points;
FACT/ Craig has still got alot of years in him as well, if Somerset were to go for one player over another solely on age I would question it
FACT/ Who cares where Craig was born, he's an England player and was developed here at Somerset. Similar thing goes for Arul.
FACT/ I think England consider him a better batsman in oneday the one day format (I'm not sure they care too much about wk ability). Jos probably is a better one day batsman, but craig is far superior IMO in 4 day
FACT/ Craig also performed very well as a keeper for England. He also got MOM in the biggest one day game England have participated in for atleast 10 years
I don't want to get into a Craig vs Jos thing, both are fantastic and if it is a one or the other situation then there is no 'right' descision as they would both be massive losses.
FACT/ Craig has still got alot of years in him as well, if Somerset were to go for one player over another solely on age I would question it
FACT/ Who cares where Craig was born, he's an England player and was developed here at Somerset. Similar thing goes for Arul.
FACT/ I think England consider him a better batsman in oneday the one day format (I'm not sure they care too much about wk ability). Jos probably is a better one day batsman, but craig is far superior IMO in 4 day
FACT/ Craig also performed very well as a keeper for England. He also got MOM in the biggest one day game England have participated in for atleast 10 years
I don't want to get into a Craig vs Jos thing, both are fantastic and if it is a one or the other situation then there is no 'right' descision as they would both be massive losses.
As for England selectors "believing," that Carberry is a better batsman than Compton?
I do not believe for one second that they believe that.
They probably think that the back-up opener is unlikely to be needed anyway and they wanted to pick somebody that they thought would get on well with his fellow tourists and not chafe about being a glorified drinks waiter for weeks on end.....
I do not believe for one second that they believe that.
They probably think that the back-up opener is unlikely to be needed anyway and they wanted to pick somebody that they thought would get on well with his fellow tourists and not chafe about being a glorified drinks waiter for weeks on end.....
Quote:AGod
FE - surely the equation was that if SCCC won its final two games of the season, we'd have been sure of staying up, no?
Doesn't that constitute controlling our own destiny?
And we haven't done that yet, so the fact that we are already safe has been arrived at through Warks' efforts rather than ours.
IF we get to 400 and then at least draw, I think THEN we could indisputably be said to have ultimately controlled our own destiny.
Steve, if your scenario transpired, there would be a young man regretting his leaving his home County.
Meanwhile Craig needs to start concentrating on his batting, when breaks are due.
Meanwhile Craig needs to start concentrating on his batting, when breaks are due.
Grockle: choosing Jos over Craig isn't an answer obviously.
A week or so back I'm sure an arrangement for co-existence was mooted by somebody which involved CK being positioned as captain and No 4 batsman, and Jos as WK.
CK could be backup for Js or AB if he makes the grade.
Maybe I'm being naive but there is something in that for both JB and CK to feel good about.
A week or so back I'm sure an arrangement for co-existence was mooted by somebody which involved CK being positioned as captain and No 4 batsman, and Jos as WK.
CK could be backup for Js or AB if he makes the grade.
Maybe I'm being naive but there is something in that for both JB and CK to feel good about.
Has this happened before (TIC) Craig K out in the last over before a break.
The problem with that Steve is that it is based on accommodating a player for some other parties reasons in my county side.
IMHO Craig Kieswetter and Jos Buttler could both be accommodated in Somerset's line-up. I think Craig is the better four day keeper and batsman. I think Jos is a batsman who keeps and could be a one day keeper on that basis and we would not be losing out in terms of performance.
The club seem to agree with me about four day games. Ashley Giles, the powers that be in the ECB and... it seems Jos Buttler do not agree.
I don't want one player to be backup to another so the club can stop him leaving and keep England sweet. I want the best man doing the job for the county and others, if they think they are good enough taking that spot on merit.
If Jos developed his batting the issue of the gloves would become nothing but a side show. England have made it an issue and Jos has followed their lead instead of Somerset's. If he therefore has to go, he has to go. I'm happy with who is left and we will carry on without him and wish him well. This is NOT Buttler, ECB or Giles CCC and we don't pander to the needs of others at the expense of our own future.
Would I like to see Jos stay - Most definitely YES. Do I want to see him with the gloves permanently? YES if it is to be BUT only when he has proved he is the better wicketkeeper/batsman for the COUNTY. Jos is choosing England over Somerset and he may regret that decision. We will feel his loss but I personally don't regret any decision the county has made in this whole thing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:12:54:26 by Grockle.
IMHO Craig Kieswetter and Jos Buttler could both be accommodated in Somerset's line-up. I think Craig is the better four day keeper and batsman. I think Jos is a batsman who keeps and could be a one day keeper on that basis and we would not be losing out in terms of performance.
The club seem to agree with me about four day games. Ashley Giles, the powers that be in the ECB and... it seems Jos Buttler do not agree.
I don't want one player to be backup to another so the club can stop him leaving and keep England sweet. I want the best man doing the job for the county and others, if they think they are good enough taking that spot on merit.
If Jos developed his batting the issue of the gloves would become nothing but a side show. England have made it an issue and Jos has followed their lead instead of Somerset's. If he therefore has to go, he has to go. I'm happy with who is left and we will carry on without him and wish him well. This is NOT Buttler, ECB or Giles CCC and we don't pander to the needs of others at the expense of our own future.
Would I like to see Jos stay - Most definitely YES. Do I want to see him with the gloves permanently? YES if it is to be BUT only when he has proved he is the better wicketkeeper/batsman for the COUNTY. Jos is choosing England over Somerset and he may regret that decision. We will feel his loss but I personally don't regret any decision the county has made in this whole thing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:12:54:26 by Grockle.
Nah mate - he's gone.
The spin has worked and I wish him well.
I hope they stick with him and I hope the new county work with him on more than keeping wicket and acting as a shock basman in the late part of short form stuff.
Not all that hopeful but I'd like to be proved wrong.
The sadly ironic thing is that it isn't past the realms of possibility that if he hits poor form he could be replaced by Craig in the England setup and possibly overtaken by him in the contest to replace Matt P!!
The spin has worked and I wish him well.
I hope they stick with him and I hope the new county work with him on more than keeping wicket and acting as a shock basman in the late part of short form stuff.
Not all that hopeful but I'd like to be proved wrong.
The sadly ironic thing is that it isn't past the realms of possibility that if he hits poor form he could be replaced by Craig in the England setup and possibly overtaken by him in the contest to replace Matt P!!
Well, I'd be amazed if Lancs have four players better than Jos in the top four in their one-day side.
I suppose they have Katich and Prince but the former could surely move up the order to open in one-day stuff if Lancs have the good sense to want to get Jos in at four?
I think Moore was still playing one-day stuff for Lancs, and he's been removed from their set-up too.
I suppose they have Katich and Prince but the former could surely move up the order to open in one-day stuff if Lancs have the good sense to want to get Jos in at four?
I think Moore was still playing one-day stuff for Lancs, and he's been removed from their set-up too.
Which brings us back to my worst case scenario, Grockle.
Neither available for SCCC.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that, having escaped the drop, right now up there in Nottingham in the warm glow of a dressing room which has euphoria coursing through its veins, Jos may be wondering if he really wants to leave his bosom pals?
Neither available for SCCC.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that, having escaped the drop, right now up there in Nottingham in the warm glow of a dressing room which has euphoria coursing through its veins, Jos may be wondering if he really wants to leave his bosom pals?
That's my outside hope Steve but I think it's a forlorn one. I've been keeping a little flame alive that the reason he hasn't announced is because he wanted to see if we made it through.
If you have players who are good for England you lose them it's thee way it is. We have two other keepers.
If you have players who are good for England you lose them it's thee way it is. We have two other keepers.
If they really are his "bosom pals," Steve (and even then only if he's not already put pen to paper on a contract).
There are probably few here that have any real knowledge of which players are or are not particularly friendly with each other within the squad.
Personally, I could only draw inferences from things that I've seen in the field..... I think Trego and Kirby appear to get on very well, for example, but a lot of our guys are fairly inscrutable in the field.
There are probably few here that have any real knowledge of which players are or are not particularly friendly with each other within the squad.
Personally, I could only draw inferences from things that I've seen in the field..... I think Trego and Kirby appear to get on very well, for example, but a lot of our guys are fairly inscrutable in the field.
From the amount and nature of banter I've seen on Twitter, it would appear that most of the squad are quite genuinely good mates.
That was certainly the impression I got from Andy Nash book, FE.
Not many teams get Shiv out twice in less than 20 overs!
Not many teams get Shiv out twice in less than 20 overs!
Agree wholeheartedly FE The twitter stuff has never given an impression other than good relations and support within the squad
I think those last two balls have drastically reduced our chances of winning this match.
And the 3 balls after that.At least it could provide an interesting last day,although 350 and a draw would mean we finish above Notts
I'm not surprised the spirit seems ti have gone out of them a bit. It must be very deflating, after their recent improvement, to fall at the final hurdle.
And of course 35 for 4 is effectively 35 for 5.
And of course 35 for 4 is effectively 35 for 5.
Is the difference between 6th and 7th significant? And even if so, do we want to secure it by playing for a draw?
Personally, now we're safe, I'd rather give Trigger and Lewis licence to have a blast at ending the season on a really positive note.
Personally, now we're safe, I'd rather give Trigger and Lewis licence to have a blast at ending the season on a really positive note.
FE - agree, really, not sure that sixth vs seventh makes much difference in the grand scheme of things.
Prize money only own to 4th place in Div 1 of the CC (only top 2 get prize money in 2nd Div)
[static.ecb.co.uk]
[static.ecb.co.uk]
SLC, I think Prize Money is only for the first 4 placed teams.
But Sixth sounds much better than Seventh, and even better than being relegated.
But Sixth sounds much better than Seventh, and even better than being relegated.
Huge relief that we are staying up - well done to James on a big ton.
Now, we have some very hard work to do across the autumn/winter.
Grizzzly
Now, we have some very hard work to do across the autumn/winter.
Grizzzly
Well done Lewis.
Wonder what bowling instructions Marcus will give to JO ?!
Grizzzly
Wonder what bowling instructions Marcus will give to JO ?!
Grizzzly
Tweet from Dave Bracegirdle:
Commentary has gone down at the moment - they are trying to fix it asap.
Commentary has gone down at the moment - they are trying to fix it asap.
Would somebody please remind the Notts batsmen this is NOT a T20 game and please bat accordingly!!
Thought that Anthony Gibson and Dave Bracegirdle have made the best commentary team I've heard this season. Anthony Gibson has been excellent all season, and provides a well balanced commentary in terms of detail, analysis and humour.
If Amla had done last week what he's done today we could all be feeling very different now...
If my auntie had rollocks she's be my uncle....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:16:21:04 by Big Jim.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:26:16:21:04 by Big Jim.
My search facility seems to have packed up, so not sure if the news of Gemaal being released is news or not.
No surprise really.
No surprise really.
I think we should sign the boy Sibley, now that would be a proper touch...ok, it'd get right up Surrey's snout.
Hope that he gets a berth somewhere for next season. Plagued by injury, and competing against local emerging talent - a bad combination.
I'm pretty sure that DN, when asked about the players who were out of contract this year, said that Nick and Jos would be made offers, but that Gemaal would not. Although he may just have not said "yes" and I interpreted that as "no".
Anyway, it's now confirmed.
Anyway, it's now confirmed.
Candid words of assessment of his own performance on the SCCC site by Gemaal.
Never really looked threatening when I saw him bowl on a couple of occasions, but hope be finds luck, wherever he goes next.
Grizzzly
Never really looked threatening when I saw him bowl on a couple of occasions, but hope be finds luck, wherever he goes next.
Grizzzly
It doesn't look like Marcus has any trouble at all with his ankle, if he had he wouldn't risk it wicket keeping that is one job you do need complete mobility I would think.
And why not Jos!!
And why not Jos!!
These adverts that block sight of posts are p$$$$$$ me off. Can someone do something about it please?
Probably final proof that he is off, and that Marcus may have felt it insensitive to finally ask him to take the gloves in what will prove to be his final fielding innings for us.
Aye, fair play to Gemaal, he seems like a tidy chap, I really hope he finds success elsewhere.
If the game ends in a draw, am I right in thinking we would finish ahead of Notts on matches won?
Who says sport doesn't even itself out?
Who says sport doesn't even itself out?
Correct Norwich, 3 wins to 2. Mr Chairman seems to imply that if we manage that, it should be a cause for celebration.
BBC table showing us three points above Notts.
ESPN table showing level on points.
As at a couple of minutes ago.
ESPN table showing level on points.
As at a couple of minutes ago.
We're level on points at the moment, as we will remain if game is drawn...in which case we'll be above Notts on games won. Otherwise, winner will be 6th, loser 7th.
I don't think BBC update mid-game.
I don't think BBC update mid-game.
Quote:Frome Exile
Probably final proof that he is off, and that Marcus may have felt it insensitive to finally ask him to take the gloves in what will prove to be his final fielding innings for us.
What on earth is this about? Have I missed something? CK is our wicketkeeper in this match isn't he? So why does Marcus doing the job prove Jos is going?
Just testing his ankle maybe? Can't see the connection to Jos.
Quote:Norwich SCCC
If the game ends in a draw, am I right in thinking we would finish ahead of Notts on matches won?
Who says sport doesn't even itself out?
Do you mean levelling out for 2010? Maybe it's just me but i wouldnt class this in the same vein somehow!!
CK bowled 3 of the final 6 overs. It would seem logical in most circumstances for a fielder who is a wicket keeper to take over.
Unless it could be construed as "taking the p***", which was the point I was trying to make.
Maybe they asked Jos, and his response was effectively "Up yours!" But I suspect he wasn't asked, and I suspect it's for the reasons I suggested.
Blimey! A conspiracy theory from me. That's a turn-up for the books!!!!!!
Maybe they asked Jos, and his response was effectively "Up yours!" But I suspect he wasn't asked, and I suspect it's for the reasons I suggested.
Blimey! A conspiracy theory from me. That's a turn-up for the books!!!!!!
Regarding the recent comments about Abell, I think if were safe before this match he would have played. He'll figure next season I believe,
Quote:RonniesabreQuote:Norwich SCCC
If the game ends in a draw, am I right in thinking we would finish ahead of Notts on matches won?
Who says sport doesn't even itself out?
Do you mean levelling out for 2010? Maybe it's just me but i wouldnt class this in the same vein somehow!!
My tongue was very firmly in my cheek, Ronnie.
Not a day goes by when I don't think about the last day of that season!
Quote:Frome Exile
I think he's talking about pop-up ads, Grizzzly.
Oops - guess I win the wally of the week award. I thought it was a less than clear reference to GH !
Grizzzly
Quote:Big Jim
That's a lovely report, Casomer, it describes quite beautifully why cricket is without doubt the finest game in the world.
Let's get over the line before we start talking about finishing sixth, boys and girls, for as we all know, fortunes can change in the blink of an eye....on the whisper of the breeze.
I'm sure Casomer appreciates your comments BJ. I was with him there for a very interesting 3 and a half hours play. Didn't you know? His great uncle was Dylan Thomas???
Sorry to have confused Grizzly. I didn't intend to be cryptic but I am aware of our beloved Grockles' edict not to quote when the post is there, and when I posted it followed one. Yes is was my response to the justified moan about pop up adverts.
So gals and guys, the last day of the season. Not as good as we hoped at the beginning but better than we feared a few weeks ago. If we have a target I hope we go for it even if we die bravely in the attempt.
Durham were down and out against Sussex but I wouldn't put it past them to win today.
So gals and guys, the last day of the season. Not as good as we hoped at the beginning but better than we feared a few weeks ago. If we have a target I hope we go for it even if we die bravely in the attempt.
Durham were down and out against Sussex but I wouldn't put it past them to win today.
That's a convenient peg for me to say how much I enjoyed Casomer's report - written by a true cricket-lover.
I'm sure he appreciates your comments Wickham. If anybody is going to Trent bridge in the next 12 months DON'T use a SatNav. It keeps taking you to ROAD CLOSED signs!!!
Are Notts likely to set a target? 280 in 60 overs -does that sound fair?
Ooops they have change matches from what is listed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:27:10:50:03 by Mike TA1.
There is a commentary link on the frontpage story as there always is (when I remember)
Grockle on my computer the links are the wrong way around. The commentary link goes to Cricinfo and the Scorecard link goes to the commentary.
YOu beat me to it by about 30 seconds, SP....
I think the commentators said he was at slip or gully the other day, so could have got a couple in short succession there.
The door to victory might be slightly ajar here, if we can knock another 2 out quickly.....
I think the commentators said he was at slip or gully the other day, so could have got a couple in short succession there.
The door to victory might be slightly ajar here, if we can knock another 2 out quickly.....
Don't think so as on cric info it usually has a †next to the name if they are WK
Thanks Tumbles and AG - tho that tends to be if they're the designated keeper (as CK would have been here), rather than a temp for a short period.
I tend to think MT keeping for a few overs last night to let CK bowl, and (maybe) JB keeping this morning is inclined to be a bit of fun at the end of term, rather than a slight to JB, JB, refusing to do it, or demonstrating MT's fitness or anything of that ilk.
I tend to think MT keeping for a few overs last night to let CK bowl, and (maybe) JB keeping this morning is inclined to be a bit of fun at the end of term, rather than a slight to JB, JB, refusing to do it, or demonstrating MT's fitness or anything of that ilk.
Another one gone, we could have a less than expected total to chase here.. 250ish in 60?
Could the stage be set for Jos to crown his all too brief SCCC career with a match-winning knock?
If we can wrap up the tail quickly after lunch....
If we can wrap up the tail quickly after lunch....
And JB takes another one. My thought this morning was perhaps 280 off 60. We've had nearly 30 this morning which leaves 66 and we are 244 behind.I don't know what Notts thinking but another 10 overs if we take the wickets could leave 275 off 56 and I hope we would have a go.
Quote:AGod
Wouldn't be much point in not having a go, really.
Well we might as well just pack up and go home now then. This could be a nice exciting final few hours of the season.
The commentators kept complain we were slowing it down before lunch and they mentioned the over rate and it would serve us right if we suddenly went to -1 and Notts declared. we would then lose 1 point.
Probably. Although AG was telling us for much of the season that Tres was going to retire!!
Quote:TumblesQuote:AGod
Wouldn't be much point in not having a go, really.
Well we might as well just pack up and go home now then. This could be a nice exciting final few hours of the season.
It was a double negative Tumbles - in other words we surely must have a go.
usually a timed announcement is when there is more than one party involved.
I had a look on the Lancs website - no mention of any announcements from them today.
Perhaps they'll announce an 8pm press conference or something as we're making the announcement, giving Jos time to hot-foot it to Manchester?
Perhaps they'll announce an 8pm press conference or something as we're making the announcement, giving Jos time to hot-foot it to Manchester?
Quote:AGodQuote:TumblesQuote:AGod
Wouldn't be much point in not having a go, really.
Well we might as well just pack up and go home now then. This could be a nice exciting final few hours of the season.
It was a double negative Tumbles - in other words we surely must have a go.
Sorry, didn't see the not! Apologies.
Thanks.
If it was good news, I'm sure it would have been trumpeted on the website before the end of today's game.
Sad.
If it was good news, I'm sure it would have been trumpeted on the website before the end of today's game.
Sad.
Yes it would be a press release if it was internal and it looks like neither Mike or myself have had anything from the club though there is still time.
Back to the match, I suspect that Notts have already scored more runs than we will be willing to chase. A shame if the match - and season - fizzles out.
Agreed Wickham but a fizzle out would just about sum up our season really would it not !
Agreed Wickham. 7 an over is too many. We'll ust let Nick get another 24 and shake hands at 5.00
Shame yes but who really cares except the paying crowd - as has been posted does it really matter if we are 6th or 7th - certainly not to me !
Wonder if Marcus will feature in the announcement.
Just pondering......
Grizzzly
Just pondering......
Grizzzly
333 to win - at least we bowled them out - presumably nowhere near enough overs for a realistic chase? Other than NC, anyone else near a milestone?
Suspect tonight's announcement will just be Buttler leaving - shame, but life goes on. Hope it works out for him.
Suspect tonight's announcement will just be Buttler leaving - shame, but life goes on. Hope it works out for him.
Whilst I agree that they almost certainly have too many, I still think we might as well have a good go anyway.
It's not as though we are in need of the 3 draw points. I'm not advocating that we continue blazing away if we're six down and 180 short or anything but "have a go and then see where we are after 20 overs," would be my view.
It's not as though we are in need of the 3 draw points. I'm not advocating that we continue blazing away if we're six down and 180 short or anything but "have a go and then see where we are after 20 overs," would be my view.
George Dobel 'Somerset require 333 in 45 overs to finish the season with a victory. The new ball made all the difference, with Notts’ last three wickets falling within 22 deliveries once it was taken. Craig Kieswetter, who I still think will be captain next season, took an excellent catch to see off Luke Fletcher.'
Pick the bones out of that..
Pick the bones out of that..
I too will wish Jos well and hope that his England career flourishes, to such an extent that Lancs never see him!!
Wonder what has Dobell sufficiently convinced to go into print on the change of captain front?
Because there will be some announcement and it's a day for speculation? He's still only saying "I...think" though.
I've said before CK would suit me fine as skipper, tho probably better if JB was still there as keeper.
I've said before CK would suit me fine as skipper, tho probably better if JB was still there as keeper.
Quote:geordie moonraker
I too will wish Jos well and hope that his England career flourishes, to such an extent that Lancs never see him!!
I'm dreading the day he scores big with England and the Lancs fans start saying he's one of there own. He will never be ANYTHING but a Somerset lad.
I don't think he's implying that Kieswetter and Captaincy will the subject of the announcement, though?
IN fact, based on what our Chairman told us we can surely be certain that it will not be as no decisions on whether to have any kind of major shake-up have been taken.
And even if Marcus did decide to resign, there'd be no reason to rush out an announcement 30-60 mins after the end of our season..
IN fact, based on what our Chairman told us we can surely be certain that it will not be as no decisions on whether to have any kind of major shake-up have been taken.
And even if Marcus did decide to resign, there'd be no reason to rush out an announcement 30-60 mins after the end of our season..
Not without leaving our Chairman with a colossal egg on his face, it couldn't FE!!
Not really - it could be part of a long-standing succession plan, and therefore nothing to do with the review.
I didn't mean to imply that tonight's announcement will be skipper-related - I really don't expect it to be - just that George D is merely speculating because it's that sort of day.
Tonight's announcement might not involve Lancs because Lancs are not involved of course.
George is simply pushing speculation from other members of the press. Nothing once again has been nailed down and probably won't be until 6.
All have to wait until then to get the full gen because I doubt they will send out press releases before hand
George is simply pushing speculation from other members of the press. Nothing once again has been nailed down and probably won't be until 6.
All have to wait until then to get the full gen because I doubt they will send out press releases before hand
I have difficulty in understanding our tactics this morning (assuming the radio commentators were reporting accurately).
When Taylor and Patel were accelerating, the tactic of bowling wide of off to try and frustrate them out made a lot of sense - and indeed worked.
But surely getting three international batsmen out in such rapid succession should have been the cue to go on the attack and try to bowl the rest of them out properly? Instead we apparently kept on bowling negatively and slowing down the over-rate. Why?
(Probably some kind of psychological inadequacy or a deep-seated malaise within the club, at least I'm sure that will be the view of some).
When Taylor and Patel were accelerating, the tactic of bowling wide of off to try and frustrate them out made a lot of sense - and indeed worked.
But surely getting three international batsmen out in such rapid succession should have been the cue to go on the attack and try to bowl the rest of them out properly? Instead we apparently kept on bowling negatively and slowing down the over-rate. Why?
(Probably some kind of psychological inadequacy or a deep-seated malaise within the club, at least I'm sure that will be the view of some).
Might the pitch have deteriorated?
The pattern for the match is one of each innings having ended in a lower total than the last.
Regardless of the reason, the obvious conclusion is that we feared defeat.
The pattern for the match is one of each innings having ended in a lower total than the last.
Regardless of the reason, the obvious conclusion is that we feared defeat.
Is it the 'obvious' conclusion?
Isn't another 'obvious' conclusion hat we were happy with a draw as victory was too far away?
I wish they had gone out in a blaze of glory but maybe 7 and 6 are NOT that important once 9 and 8 were out of the way - it can't have been an easy month for anyone in the squad.
Isn't another 'obvious' conclusion hat we were happy with a draw as victory was too far away?
I wish they had gone out in a blaze of glory but maybe 7 and 6 are NOT that important once 9 and 8 were out of the way - it can't have been an easy month for anyone in the squad.
I must add, the only Somerset player to do so.
Now I know why Marcus was out early. (TIC)
Now I know why Marcus was out early. (TIC)
Yes, it was enough, when he had scored 24 he totaled 1,000 runs at an average of exactly 50. Well played.
When do the 2014 fixtures get announced??
When do the 2014 fixtures get announced??
No, I know that Michael, it's just that the word skipper is Welsh for Nick Compton.
Odd that, aint it?
Odd that, aint it?
They said earlier in the match that Lumb was very close last season, too, but chose to go off on paternity leave before the 1,000 could be completed.
Well, it's all over for another year.
Normally at this time of year, I feel an overwhelming sadness that the end of the cricket season, and the last of the Summer wine, has finally come.
Not so this year, I regret to admit, but here's hoping for better next year.
Normally at this time of year, I feel an overwhelming sadness that the end of the cricket season, and the last of the Summer wine, has finally come.
Not so this year, I regret to admit, but here's hoping for better next year.
Quote:I agree that 6 and 7 aren't that important - that's why I see no point in playing for a draw just so as to hang on to 6th on a split tie.Grockle
...maybe 7 and 6 are NOT that important once 9 and 8 were out of the way -
Quote:Frome Exile
Only one man got there for Notts too, mike. Your namesake, Mr. Lumb.
Yep, and that is why we both ended the season holding hands.
To be fair, not many players do get 1,000 runs in a CC season nowadays - this year, 12 in Div One and 15 in Div Two (still less than two per county on average).
Quote:SheptonPaul
To be fair, not many players do get 1,000 runs in a CC season nowadays - this year, 12 in Div One and 15 in Div Two (still less than two per county on average).
Bizzarely 4 of them for Glos.
Inevitable that Jos is off really.. but I wish it had all been done and dusted before this match, or that they hadn't played Jos. It all felt wrong...
Even worse, I work with a truly obnoxious Lancs fan who will no doubt claim that his county is responsible for any and all Buttler success.
Even worse, I work with a truly obnoxious Lancs fan who will no doubt claim that his county is responsible for any and all Buttler success.
Where will it first be announced on the web? No sign of it on the SCCC website, BBC or Cricinfo.
Ps I hope you're wrong Wickham.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:27:18:20:13 by North Berwick John.
Ps I hope you're wrong Wickham.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:27:18:20:13 by North Berwick John.
Like all good news stories it will be fist announce on Twitter.
Chris Read confirms he's staying at Notts btw
Chris Read confirms he's staying at Notts btw
MT summarises the reason on the official site Mikeindex. Both sides "just wanted to get through the day".
Not great for the fans as someone pointed out but it's been a hell of a season for most of the men playing in this one and I can understand them wanting it to be over with no mishaps.
Not great for the fans as someone pointed out but it's been a hell of a season for most of the men playing in this one and I can understand them wanting it to be over with no mishaps.
A pity, but inevitable. Alex Barrow has arguably got more potential as a CC batsman than JB, so every cloud has a silver lining.
And Mr. Lavender's remarks are dignified, and his reasoning unarguable. Guarantees just can't be given.
Scrumper-
What for?
No ready made top order bat who can do a decent job behind the stumps going spare at Middlesex.
Lanky are holding a press conference next Wednesday by the way.
What for?
No ready made top order bat who can do a decent job behind the stumps going spare at Middlesex.
Lanky are holding a press conference next Wednesday by the way.
Ho hum.
We still have a wicketkeeper batsman most counties (and many countries) would kill for.
Good luck to him, but life goes on.
We still have a wicketkeeper batsman most counties (and many countries) would kill for.
Good luck to him, but life goes on.
Wonder why Lancs are waiting so long?
Maybe they've given Jos a few days off before the press conference or something.
If we already knew that Jos was off (the club I mean) then I tend to think that Alex Barrow, having done reasonably well, should not have been dropped to bring Jos back for this one, to be honest.
Maybe they've given Jos a few days off before the press conference or something.
If we already knew that Jos was off (the club I mean) then I tend to think that Alex Barrow, having done reasonably well, should not have been dropped to bring Jos back for this one, to be honest.
They'll be waiting for him to get there.
We've lost a great potential batsman, a devastating one day destroyer on his day.
BUT we've kept the better wicket-batsman and as Guy says - you can't give or demand guarantees.
I'm sure it was difficult for Jos and I wish him well but he must have know that was always going to be the position and if he wanted something different then this isn't where he is going to get it. And if he thinks he's got it at Old Trafford then I'm afraid he's been lied to unless it is in writing.
We've lost a great potential batsman, a devastating one day destroyer on his day.
BUT we've kept the better wicket-batsman and as Guy says - you can't give or demand guarantees.
I'm sure it was difficult for Jos and I wish him well but he must have know that was always going to be the position and if he wanted something different then this isn't where he is going to get it. And if he thinks he's got it at Old Trafford then I'm afraid he's been lied to unless it is in writing.
As sad as it is, time to draw a line under it and move on. Somerset was around before Jos and will be after.
“However the Club, on a matter of principle and pragmatism, feels unable to offer a guarantee to Jos – or any other player – of selection in their preferred role.
After reading that it doesn't look like Nick will be captain.
After reading that it doesn't look like Nick will be captain.
It will all be guaranteed by default at Lancs on the grounds that he is, no doubt, miles better as a keeper-batsman in the one-day stuff, at least, than their England under 19 guy.
What might really put the cat amongst the pigeons though will be if Matt Prior decides he wants to spend more time with the family after the Ashes...
What might really put the cat amongst the pigeons though will be if Matt Prior decides he wants to spend more time with the family after the Ashes...
True Mike, but skipper Nick might be SCCC's preference and therefore in their gift.
As I said to Steve the other day the real irony of this situation would be if he is usurped in his present international position by the man he has left behind to progress his career with Somerset.
It really isn't beyond the realms of reality that the two could be in the same side with Craig wearing the gloves!!
It really isn't beyond the realms of reality that the two could be in the same side with Craig wearing the gloves!!
Quote:How would that affect JB Agod?AGod
It will all be guaranteed by default at Lancs on the grounds that he is, no doubt, miles better as a keeper-batsman in the one-day stuff, at least, than their England under 19 guy.
What might really put the cat amongst the pigeons though will be if Matt Prior decides he wants to spend more time with the family after the Ashes...
But it will be exceptionally annoying if that happens as it will just confirm what many of us thought - namely that Jos has the ability to be in the England ODI team, regardless of gauntlets.
I deeply regret Jos not having been given a role higher up in our one-day side last season... if he'd had that role he may have done so well that he'd have been picked for England instead of a batsman and A N Other (don't care who) could have been the England keeper and we wouldn't have had Giles agitating for Jos to move so that he could keep and etc etc..
Still, the important thing now is to bring a couple of batsmen in to re-inforce things, if at all possible.
I deeply regret Jos not having been given a role higher up in our one-day side last season... if he'd had that role he may have done so well that he'd have been picked for England instead of a batsman and A N Other (don't care who) could have been the England keeper and we wouldn't have had Giles agitating for Jos to move so that he could keep and etc etc..
Still, the important thing now is to bring a couple of batsmen in to re-inforce things, if at all possible.
NBJ - "It depends".
If Bairstow plays as a batsman this winter and fails again, then I'm not sure I could see England wanting Bairstow to be their new keeper.
After Bairstow, it's anyone's guess as to who might be next in line - it could be Davies, it could be Jos, it could be CK. Possibly even Foakes might have some sort of (very) outside shot if he comes on quickly?
If Bairstow plays as a batsman this winter and fails again, then I'm not sure I could see England wanting Bairstow to be their new keeper.
After Bairstow, it's anyone's guess as to who might be next in line - it could be Davies, it could be Jos, it could be CK. Possibly even Foakes might have some sort of (very) outside shot if he comes on quickly?
I hope Jos has a bad start to next season with the gloves but handles the bat well. His long term international future is based on his scoring rate in the CC and not his stumping rate.
What's the betting the first championship fixture next season will be circa April 8th- Somerset v Lancashire, at Taunton.
Eckersley who can keep wicket, but prefers not to- and is out of contract at Leicestershire should be your number 1 target.
Eckersley who can keep wicket, but prefers not to- and is out of contract at Leicestershire should be your number 1 target.
Maybe part of the reason for this season's poor performance was down to the CK/JB issue. CK doesn't strike me to be a guy much given to compromise, and maybe the settlement of that issue may in itself lead to improved performances next year.
Trying to think of a similar sporting situation and the closest I can think of is when Leeds United had Paul Robinson and Nigel Martyn on their books. On that occasion it was Martyn who moved.
This situation is different as CK is still young and will be pushing for further England honours himself.
All the best to Jos and the consolation is that Lancs won't see much of him as he progresses his England career.
Onwards and upwards.
This situation is different as CK is still young and will be pushing for further England honours himself.
All the best to Jos and the consolation is that Lancs won't see much of him as he progresses his England career.
Onwards and upwards.
NBJ - the poor performance has been pretty universal so I doubt you can put it at the feet of this. I haven't seen any evidence of a problem between Craig and Jos... have I missed that?
Generally I thought Jos's only problem that came out was a difference of opinion about communication of when he was going to keep before the one dayer?
Has he or Craig suggested bad feeling between the two? Surely they are both committed to keeping because if they weren't Jos would not be moving. It can't be blamed on CK's commitment or JB's desire to play as keeper surely. They wouldn't be the players they are unless they wanted the job.
Generally I thought Jos's only problem that came out was a difference of opinion about communication of when he was going to keep before the one dayer?
Has he or Craig suggested bad feeling between the two? Surely they are both committed to keeping because if they weren't Jos would not be moving. It can't be blamed on CK's commitment or JB's desire to play as keeper surely. They wouldn't be the players they are unless they wanted the job.
Andy Caddick (again) said on BBC Somerset before it was announced he was going to Lancs, members and supporters will ask why everything wasn't done to keep Jos at Somerset.
I appreciate That the county cannot give guarantees, but when you have produced one of the best young players in the country you can do whatever it takes to keep them. CK would have to accept some compromise..eg you will not keep in every match. Very sad for all connected with Jos because he is a born and bred Somerset lad who I am convinced saw his future with the county. I know he will make a dignified exit but equally I'm sure he feel some anger. Mr N, I hope you realise the magnitude of letting one of Somersets favourite sons disappear. Its a big call.
In my opinion, we are still well served with wicket keepers.CK remains and when I watched Alex Barrow, he did very well indeed standing in for CK when Jos was away. He will move forward if he is given the chance. His batting too has shown good progress and there is absolutely no reason that he cannot be a regular deputy. There is also James Regan.
Best wishes Jos, you have provided stunning entertainment. You have a bright future where ever you end up. Just a shame its not Somerset any longer.
In my opinion, we are still well served with wicket keepers.CK remains and when I watched Alex Barrow, he did very well indeed standing in for CK when Jos was away. He will move forward if he is given the chance. His batting too has shown good progress and there is absolutely no reason that he cannot be a regular deputy. There is also James Regan.
Best wishes Jos, you have provided stunning entertainment. You have a bright future where ever you end up. Just a shame its not Somerset any longer.
Ashley Giles will be very happy this evening.
I share the opinion that we have lost a very special talent and it will be very hard to watch him play domestically next season.
He also seems like a nice lad when interviewed and is doing what he perceives to be best for his career. However, I can't help feeling that Giles, Fairbrother and the constant speculation on Sky have had an undue influence on him and forced him into this unnecessary impasse.
It is that impression that leaves a bad taste in the mouth this evening, and unlike other more gracious posters, I cannot say all the best to him and mean it. (give it time but not tonight!)
However, as Tumbles said we are Somerset and we will go on.
I share the opinion that we have lost a very special talent and it will be very hard to watch him play domestically next season.
He also seems like a nice lad when interviewed and is doing what he perceives to be best for his career. However, I can't help feeling that Giles, Fairbrother and the constant speculation on Sky have had an undue influence on him and forced him into this unnecessary impasse.
It is that impression that leaves a bad taste in the mouth this evening, and unlike other more gracious posters, I cannot say all the best to him and mean it. (give it time but not tonight!)
However, as Tumbles said we are Somerset and we will go on.
Very sad to see Jos move on, I wish him well, and also hope it works out in the way he expects.
I am sure he will always get a welcome back at the C.G.
The club also must and will move on, as must this forum, these things happen, recriminations are certainly not in order.
We must now look forward to the club management taking us forward to 2014.
I am sure he will always get a welcome back at the C.G.
The club also must and will move on, as must this forum, these things happen, recriminations are certainly not in order.
We must now look forward to the club management taking us forward to 2014.
Quote:Grockle, I'm not for a moment suggesting any ill feeling between the two players. However the uncertainty about JB's future must have had some impact on the squad, and must have put some extra pressure on MT as the "meat in the sandwich"Grockle
NBJ - the poor performance has been pretty universal so I doubt you can put it at the feet of this. I haven't seen any evidence of a problem between Craig and Jos... have I missed that?
Generally I thought Jos's only problem that came out was a difference of opinion about communication of when he was going to keep before the one dayer?
Has he or Craig suggested bad feeling between the two? Surely they are both committed to keeping because if they weren't Jos would not be moving. It can't be blamed on CK's commitment or JB's desire to play as keeper surely. They wouldn't be the players they are unless they wanted the job.
We on this site are only a few of many thousand of supporter, I meet supporters in Taunton almost every day I will see if I can judge the mood of others after this announcement.
If it is all quiet on the western front or if there is talk of an uprising I will let you know.
That last sentence is not meant to be serious.
I lost it a bit when Blackie left Somerset so I am trying to stay calm.
If it is all quiet on the western front or if there is talk of an uprising I will let you know.
That last sentence is not meant to be serious.
I lost it a bit when Blackie left Somerset so I am trying to stay calm.
Somerset DID try and compromise but they cannot pander to one player to keep him and I doubt Jos asked them to. The compromise wasn't what he wanted and we cannot give the second best keeper the gloves the amount he seemed to want them because he's a good batsman.
We wouldn't agree to one of the Overton's opening the batting to keep them why should we do more than we did to keep Jos?
If the county compromises then the player has to also compromise (it means middle ground) and he (or his ECB backers) don't seem to have been able to do that.
A poster on Facebook said we had forced Jos out. NO WE DIDN'T! In case people haven't noticed, he made his demands, we couldn't fill them though it seems we tried to find a middle ground. We couldn't and HE chose to leave.
A county is either a meritocracy or it is a weakened county at the whims and demands of players who think they are more important than the team however reasonable they are about it.
As Brian Rose said, the club comes first and as someone said here, Somerset was here before and will be here after Jos Buttler.
We wouldn't agree to one of the Overton's opening the batting to keep them why should we do more than we did to keep Jos?
If the county compromises then the player has to also compromise (it means middle ground) and he (or his ECB backers) don't seem to have been able to do that.
A poster on Facebook said we had forced Jos out. NO WE DIDN'T! In case people haven't noticed, he made his demands, we couldn't fill them though it seems we tried to find a middle ground. We couldn't and HE chose to leave.
A county is either a meritocracy or it is a weakened county at the whims and demands of players who think they are more important than the team however reasonable they are about it.
As Brian Rose said, the club comes first and as someone said here, Somerset was here before and will be here after Jos Buttler.
Ridiculous comment to say that the club "forced him out" or even that we "let him go". He chose to leave, we did everything we could to keep him but that wasn't enough. Fair enough, good luck to the lad - except when playing us - i'm afraid i will have to cheer when he is out and hope he drops it when Tresco nicks it!
The unfortunate thing is that both CK and JB are wicketkeeper/batsmen If they had different role in the side (batsman/bowler)then they can both be accommodated,but we are only allowed one wicket keeper in a match, and if both want to keep then a decision has to be made and consistency does matter. JB is out of contract CK isn't. It's a pity but don't forget that although JB is Somerset born CK is also one of ours-school in the county and this is his 7th season. Guy Lavender laid it on the line,gently but firmly and was right.
Now wouldn't that be a story, especially if it is in the first game of next season and Marcus goes on to hit 3 figures to return to form.... what a hoot that would be.
Yield to one player's demands and what comes next?
I'm very sad, not because I think the club have done the wrong thing, but because we've lost the pmayer ocer something so silly.
I have ZERO faith that England will be any more patient with Jos than they've been with several others, and I genuinely fear that within two years he'll have been discarded by England as well as lost to us.
After all, how much loyalty did England show to the Man if the Match in the only global final we've ever won?
I'm very sad, not because I think the club have done the wrong thing, but because we've lost the pmayer ocer something so silly.
I have ZERO faith that England will be any more patient with Jos than they've been with several others, and I genuinely fear that within two years he'll have been discarded by England as well as lost to us.
After all, how much loyalty did England show to the Man if the Match in the only global final we've ever won?
Yep there are those elsewhere who think we have "got rid of" the "best one day keeper in the country" - don't they understand England's selection policy? Well obviously not.
I'm scared that Lancs know what they are getting. If they let Jos keep for a bit while developing their U19 prospect but concentrate on Buttler's batting ability they may have just signed the scourge of Championship bowling attacks from 2015 to 2025 when he isn't helping England win the Ashes, the Champions Trophy and the T20 Word Cup before he receives his Knighthood. God help us all if the know they have just picked up an allround batsman of rare talent
I'm scared that Lancs know what they are getting. If they let Jos keep for a bit while developing their U19 prospect but concentrate on Buttler's batting ability they may have just signed the scourge of Championship bowling attacks from 2015 to 2025 when he isn't helping England win the Ashes, the Champions Trophy and the T20 Word Cup before he receives his Knighthood. God help us all if the know they have just picked up an allround batsman of rare talent
England's hierarchy will have had a word in his ear no doubting that and will have influenced this in some way. The same hierarchy that didn't pick compo had Taylor playing in a ashes warm up to replace pietersen and didn't pick him in the winter had woakes in the final test and not in either party. Just hope Buttler factored all that nonsense into his decision .
A great pity.
Who knows who promised what to whom, (or didn't) & the absence of knowledge re this makes it impossible to know who, if anyone, is 'to blame'.
What I do find odd, is that there seems to be a general acknowledgement (with which I entirely concur) that the Club is bigger than any one player, and it is the Clubs well being that is all important.
That being the case, surely the same should apply to the Captaincy ?
IMHO Marcus should have gone mid season, & we were fortunate indeed to stay up. I find it sad that he seems to want to cling on to the position, notwithstanding his poor form & failure to get the best out of his players.
Marcus, you have been a batting hero for Somerset. Please concentrate on doing so again, without the burden of the Captaincy.
I really don't want to remember you as someone who carried on too long in a position unsuited to your personality.
Grizzzly
Who knows who promised what to whom, (or didn't) & the absence of knowledge re this makes it impossible to know who, if anyone, is 'to blame'.
What I do find odd, is that there seems to be a general acknowledgement (with which I entirely concur) that the Club is bigger than any one player, and it is the Clubs well being that is all important.
That being the case, surely the same should apply to the Captaincy ?
IMHO Marcus should have gone mid season, & we were fortunate indeed to stay up. I find it sad that he seems to want to cling on to the position, notwithstanding his poor form & failure to get the best out of his players.
Marcus, you have been a batting hero for Somerset. Please concentrate on doing so again, without the burden of the Captaincy.
I really don't want to remember you as someone who carried on too long in a position unsuited to your personality.
Grizzzly
I could actually see circumstances under which Jos could be Prior's replacement after the ashes this winter. That might mean this is effectively a lot of worry about nothing.
It does leave us with the clear job of strengthening our batting pool for next year, as we are down two and have lower expectations of runs from MT, JH and PT than we did at the start of this season.
Cove (if fit), Lewis and CM seem to be all rounders rather than batsmen who bowl and AB, AND CJ are not the finished article yet. I would like to see young Abell given a decent run next year, but it's always easier for young players to fit into a team that is performing well and where is that stability going to come from?
It does leave us with the clear job of strengthening our batting pool for next year, as we are down two and have lower expectations of runs from MT, JH and PT than we did at the start of this season.
Cove (if fit), Lewis and CM seem to be all rounders rather than batsmen who bowl and AB, AND CJ are not the finished article yet. I would like to see young Abell given a decent run next year, but it's always easier for young players to fit into a team that is performing well and where is that stability going to come from?
Hail and fare thee well, young man. I wish it had been otherwise and hope that those in whom you have put your trust prove trustworthy.
Wise words from Grizzzly above.
Events earlier this season might lead one to think that CK would be favoured if MT steps down from the captaincy. But the former's recent form and attitude are questionable.
Wise words from Grizzzly above.
Events earlier this season might lead one to think that CK would be favoured if MT steps down from the captaincy. But the former's recent form and attitude are questionable.
Same question as every time this has come up Grizzz - who would have replaced Marcus mid season and made a difference to how the side played?
This has been said, out front in a few posts and implied by others in many more but no one provided the alternative captain.
It matters not one jot now but there are candidates now who were not ready or not viable halfway through the season or before the 2013 start so let them discuss it all now with some urgency and sort it.
But please let us not have not have a retrospective 'Marcus hunt' ((I'm not suggesting you are Grizzz) after the fact. It's 2014 we need to focus on now and getting some respect back especially for four day cricket in Taunton.
This has been said, out front in a few posts and implied by others in many more but no one provided the alternative captain.
It matters not one jot now but there are candidates now who were not ready or not viable halfway through the season or before the 2013 start so let them discuss it all now with some urgency and sort it.
But please let us not have not have a retrospective 'Marcus hunt' ((I'm not suggesting you are Grizzz) after the fact. It's 2014 we need to focus on now and getting some respect back especially for four day cricket in Taunton.
I don't know what time you got the press release Mike but I had to laugh when it arrived about 10 our time with a huge banner saying that it was strictly embargoed from releasing before 7pm!!
I've been consistent throughout the season in my view that Trigger would have been (& remains) a good candidate Grockle.
I can't of course prove that he would have done better and of course his own form with the bat (in the CC) hasn't been inspiring.
But then again, neither was Mr Brearly's.
Other candidates would/could be:
CK - I've just got a gut feeling that his attititide might be a problem here.
JH - Does he want it ? Still not sure what happened last year re the VC.
NC - would be my second choice. Perhaps a bit too introverted ?
AT - Not convinced that he would 'gel' the team.
Agree entirely that we need to "sort it", but that's going to get pretty messy if Marcus does indeed want to stay as skipper.
I just don't believe personally that would be good for him, or for SCCC.
Grizzzly
I can't of course prove that he would have done better and of course his own form with the bat (in the CC) hasn't been inspiring.
But then again, neither was Mr Brearly's.
Other candidates would/could be:
CK - I've just got a gut feeling that his attititide might be a problem here.
JH - Does he want it ? Still not sure what happened last year re the VC.
NC - would be my second choice. Perhaps a bit too introverted ?
AT - Not convinced that he would 'gel' the team.
Agree entirely that we need to "sort it", but that's going to get pretty messy if Marcus does indeed want to stay as skipper.
I just don't believe personally that would be good for him, or for SCCC.
Grizzzly
I have to say I don't see how Pete would have been any different to Marcus as he was having the same CC problems as his skipper and was lucky himself to play.
Probably because of the phenomenal season he had in 2012 and the thoughts (as with Marcus) that the form MUST surely come back eventually.
Probably because of the phenomenal season he had in 2012 and the thoughts (as with Marcus) that the form MUST surely come back eventually.
Quote:Norwich SCCC
Ashley Giles will be very happy this evening.
That reminds me of the moment some weeks ago when Ashley Giles (for no obvious reason) some weeks ago was seen in Taunton's Tesco late at night! Jos's future was still up in the air, but, could we surmise that Ashley was whispering in JBs ear that his future MUST be away from Taunton and at a bigger, more important club!
Yeah but he still didn't get him to Warks so that's one in the eye for him.
Unlucky, Giles.
Unlucky, Giles.
Morning after and it is no better.
We all know the circumstances but we have just lost the biggest talent in English cricket bar none, fact.
We can't replace him, it's impossible, there is nobody out there domestically with his ability.
My maths make it we have lost Arul+Jos from the batting ranks, and Abell is our only realistic untried top order batter.
We just have to recruit 2 batters if just for numbers and competition, but ideally of quality.
Marcus quoted yesterday as being keen to still play on until he is 40 and has no thoughts of giving up the captaincy. I for one am delighted about this, I know many will however disagree!!!
We all know the circumstances but we have just lost the biggest talent in English cricket bar none, fact.
We can't replace him, it's impossible, there is nobody out there domestically with his ability.
My maths make it we have lost Arul+Jos from the batting ranks, and Abell is our only realistic untried top order batter.
We just have to recruit 2 batters if just for numbers and competition, but ideally of quality.
Marcus quoted yesterday as being keen to still play on until he is 40 and has no thoughts of giving up the captaincy. I for one am delighted about this, I know many will however disagree!!!
Well I'm not sure it is a 'fact' until we see him next year and he is developing his potential WSM.
As a keeper we haven't had to replace him.
Presently as a mid order CC batsman I think we have done that. Our issues are at the front end - we have a number of middle order men who can do his job.
In the one dayers I'm happy we have a keeper/batsman who is as good more often.
So I'm still not sure he is the loss we all think he is. We'd be better with him in full flow in Somerset colours and in a year's time with the right work he'll be more than the sum of his parts.
But that is by no means a certain outcome in the new setup he walks into. He's taking the gamble we have a team to build and we'll do it without him just fine.
He is pretty much untapped and may stay that way unfortunately though we hope for more than that as people who have watched and supported his development over the last five years.
As a keeper we haven't had to replace him.
Presently as a mid order CC batsman I think we have done that. Our issues are at the front end - we have a number of middle order men who can do his job.
In the one dayers I'm happy we have a keeper/batsman who is as good more often.
So I'm still not sure he is the loss we all think he is. We'd be better with him in full flow in Somerset colours and in a year's time with the right work he'll be more than the sum of his parts.
But that is by no means a certain outcome in the new setup he walks into. He's taking the gamble we have a team to build and we'll do it without him just fine.
He is pretty much untapped and may stay that way unfortunately though we hope for more than that as people who have watched and supported his development over the last five years.
I wish Jos all the very best, I hope he gets whatever it is he wants at his new club, he'll be missed, but then again, so shall yesterday.
Let's not get too cut up over what has happened, somebody else will take his place, someone who'll wear the colours of the county with pride...and ultimately, that's all that matters.
Let's not get too cut up over what has happened, somebody else will take his place, someone who'll wear the colours of the county with pride...and ultimately, that's all that matters.
Which other English county batsmen do you see as equal or better then, who is not currently a permanent fixture in the England set up?
In my opinion there isn't one, to me it is fact that he is England biggest batting talent, bar none.
Yes he has plenty to do, but that is the point. He is very good now, and everyone can see his potential, given the right nurturing he can go right to the very top.
In my eyes we have lost a very very good player and a potential superstar of the modern game.
He is one of the few players you get excited by when he comes out to bat. When his name is announced as the next man in people take notice, they know there is the chance they are about to watch something special.
In my 20 years of watching only Blacky and Tres join him in my top 3 of exciting Somerset batters I;ve had pleasure of watching.
Tregs, Kiesy, Langer, Bowler, Harden, Lathwell, Eccelstone, Compo all up there, but for excitement and pure talent he is so special.
I accept we have to move on but I don't apologise for being extremely sad that we have lost such a talented homegrown player who in my opinion could be a worldwide start in 2 or 3 years time.
If we have filled his middle order batting then it hasn't been too great so far. I hope Jones and Barrow, and in time Abell make it but are any of those 3 really a comparison to Jos?
This chapter is now closed (thankfully( we know Arul has gone, we know Jos has gone, and we know Germal has gone. We had Jones and Barrow at the start of this season, so even if we see Abell as a fixture next year (big call as we stand), then we still HAVE to recruit at least 2 domestic batters surely.
With Tres's dodgy fitness and potential for injuries at any point we at least need cover surely.....?
In my opinion there isn't one, to me it is fact that he is England biggest batting talent, bar none.
Yes he has plenty to do, but that is the point. He is very good now, and everyone can see his potential, given the right nurturing he can go right to the very top.
In my eyes we have lost a very very good player and a potential superstar of the modern game.
He is one of the few players you get excited by when he comes out to bat. When his name is announced as the next man in people take notice, they know there is the chance they are about to watch something special.
In my 20 years of watching only Blacky and Tres join him in my top 3 of exciting Somerset batters I;ve had pleasure of watching.
Tregs, Kiesy, Langer, Bowler, Harden, Lathwell, Eccelstone, Compo all up there, but for excitement and pure talent he is so special.
I accept we have to move on but I don't apologise for being extremely sad that we have lost such a talented homegrown player who in my opinion could be a worldwide start in 2 or 3 years time.
If we have filled his middle order batting then it hasn't been too great so far. I hope Jones and Barrow, and in time Abell make it but are any of those 3 really a comparison to Jos?
This chapter is now closed (thankfully( we know Arul has gone, we know Jos has gone, and we know Germal has gone. We had Jones and Barrow at the start of this season, so even if we see Abell as a fixture next year (big call as we stand), then we still HAVE to recruit at least 2 domestic batters surely.
With Tres's dodgy fitness and potential for injuries at any point we at least need cover surely.....?
I think it's going to have to be an overseas batsman for next season, WSM. With the rigmarole with international fixtures we'll probably end up needing three different ones to cover all 16 games but so be it.
Taking an overseas bowler and leaving us with the same squad as this year minus Arul, Jos and first-half Petersen would just be too much of a risk.
And, for my money, we should be looking for a second Compton type as this overseas player. We've got to stop the soft underbelly and persistent collapses. With a collapsible batting line-up a team will never win the CC.
We're going to have to bore a few people if we want to move forward in the CC, I'm afraid. They can go and watch the T20 instead.
Taking an overseas bowler and leaving us with the same squad as this year minus Arul, Jos and first-half Petersen would just be too much of a risk.
And, for my money, we should be looking for a second Compton type as this overseas player. We've got to stop the soft underbelly and persistent collapses. With a collapsible batting line-up a team will never win the CC.
We're going to have to bore a few people if we want to move forward in the CC, I'm afraid. They can go and watch the T20 instead.
I'd say Root is a better 'county' batsman than Jos for one at the present WSM. I mean all round batsman for all formats. Jos hits a big ball in inventive ways but stardom needs much more than that.
No doubt he is special but I would have put money on Blackie being an England all rounder fixture for a decade and would have lost my money.
I know its an opinion thing but if I had to send a batsman in to bat for my life he wouldn't be the first I would think of even from my present county side
Just because he can be doesn't mean he will be. He has the opportunity and the potential but he isn't there yet. Had he stayed I think we could have developed that talent. It might have meant weaning him off the keeper obsession and turning him into a batsman who can produce a crafted innings. That may not be the agenda of the Red Rose.
But as you say it's all opinion and we move on as does he.
He could be a superstar yes. But he isn't yet and IMHO he has been lied to and cajoled to follow the wrong path to that 'stardom'. it doesn't mean he can't get there but it may mean he doesn't. He wouldn't be the first.
No doubt he is special but I would have put money on Blackie being an England all rounder fixture for a decade and would have lost my money.
I know its an opinion thing but if I had to send a batsman in to bat for my life he wouldn't be the first I would think of even from my present county side
Just because he can be doesn't mean he will be. He has the opportunity and the potential but he isn't there yet. Had he stayed I think we could have developed that talent. It might have meant weaning him off the keeper obsession and turning him into a batsman who can produce a crafted innings. That may not be the agenda of the Red Rose.
But as you say it's all opinion and we move on as does he.
He could be a superstar yes. But he isn't yet and IMHO he has been lied to and cajoled to follow the wrong path to that 'stardom'. it doesn't mean he can't get there but it may mean he doesn't. He wouldn't be the first.
To be fair I doubt England have told any outright lies.
Neither Giles nor Fairbrother will have been keen to remind Jos of the merry-go-round at the ODI keeper spot.
But even if Jos didn't do his homework on that front, surely that merry go-round must have been one of the arguments marshalled by Tres, DN and anybody else keen to keep Jos here.
I can't believe Giles would have 'guaranteed,' Jos a place anymore than DN guaranteed him a keeping job.
If Jos was offered such a guarantee by England and believed it? Then I have a bridge that Jos might like to buy.
Neither Giles nor Fairbrother will have been keen to remind Jos of the merry-go-round at the ODI keeper spot.
But even if Jos didn't do his homework on that front, surely that merry go-round must have been one of the arguments marshalled by Tres, DN and anybody else keen to keep Jos here.
I can't believe Giles would have 'guaranteed,' Jos a place anymore than DN guaranteed him a keeping job.
If Jos was offered such a guarantee by England and believed it? Then I have a bridge that Jos might like to buy.
Morning guys: just doesn't feel any better this morning does it?.
I understand the problem and I understand GL's words completely. But at the moment I just can't see beyond the fact that we have let the brightest batting talent in years slip through our fingers.
I haven't felt this bad about wives leaving me!
I keep remembering Bob Willis's comments earlier in the season that Jos can be right up there as KP's replacement (but better behaved!) and England should get him in there now.
How bad are we all going to feel when he is the world superstar he might be in a few years and he's smashing balls into the river for somebody else?
He was ours and we should have found a way to convince him to stay. I won't say 'at all costs' because GL is right.
Such a sad day at least for the moment it has driven the MT/CK/Captaincy stuff out of my head. Who cares? Jos was the future.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:10:09:49 by stevecav.
I understand the problem and I understand GL's words completely. But at the moment I just can't see beyond the fact that we have let the brightest batting talent in years slip through our fingers.
I haven't felt this bad about wives leaving me!
I keep remembering Bob Willis's comments earlier in the season that Jos can be right up there as KP's replacement (but better behaved!) and England should get him in there now.
How bad are we all going to feel when he is the world superstar he might be in a few years and he's smashing balls into the river for somebody else?
He was ours and we should have found a way to convince him to stay. I won't say 'at all costs' because GL is right.
Such a sad day at least for the moment it has driven the MT/CK/Captaincy stuff out of my head. Who cares? Jos was the future.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:10:09:49 by stevecav.
Can we replace his potential? No, although who knows what is next on the production line. Abell may or may not be the article.
Can we replace his contribution thus far? Rather easily I believe. 2 CC 100's in what, 6 seasons shouldn't prove too tough an ask and although the one day cameos are spectacular when they come, how regular have they been?
As i said before, thank you Jos I have loved the good times and appreciate the dignity you have shown in this and I really hope you fulfill the potential we all see. But here life wll go on and I believe it will be more fun here than oop north.
Can we replace his contribution thus far? Rather easily I believe. 2 CC 100's in what, 6 seasons shouldn't prove too tough an ask and although the one day cameos are spectacular when they come, how regular have they been?
As i said before, thank you Jos I have loved the good times and appreciate the dignity you have shown in this and I really hope you fulfill the potential we all see. But here life wll go on and I believe it will be more fun here than oop north.
I'll make one obvious point: If Jos becomes a 'world superstar'?
He'd play maybe one CC match per season for his County and, possibly, a T20 or Lord's final if his County gets there.
So, in actual fact it's really only if Jos becomes a really good CC batsman that is considered short of Test standard (and so doesn't play Tests) that this move will deny Jos to us in the long-term.
If Jos pans out as some of us think and becomes a big star? Lancs will gain almost nothing from this in the long-run.
Even if he never improves and so is only ever an ODI player then he'll probably gravitate to the God-forsaken IPL in time and that wretched garbage seems to get longer with each passing season.
He'd play maybe one CC match per season for his County and, possibly, a T20 or Lord's final if his County gets there.
So, in actual fact it's really only if Jos becomes a really good CC batsman that is considered short of Test standard (and so doesn't play Tests) that this move will deny Jos to us in the long-term.
If Jos pans out as some of us think and becomes a big star? Lancs will gain almost nothing from this in the long-run.
Even if he never improves and so is only ever an ODI player then he'll probably gravitate to the God-forsaken IPL in time and that wretched garbage seems to get longer with each passing season.
Railboy - the one-day knocks were regular enough to get him probably the best 40 over average in the land. 80 matches, average 51 and strike-rate 123. Sorry, but nobody can credibly pretend that that record could be the product of infrequent cameos.
The CC is a different matter and I take your point, though it doesn't help that Jos seemed to be getting better in the CC and only NC and AP averaged more than he did in the CC this season.
Realistically he'll be a huge miss in the one-day side and not only for what he could have been but for what he was. But, as said above, if he goes on to crack the Test team and stuff then we'd never see him anyway.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:10:33:23 by AGod.
The CC is a different matter and I take your point, though it doesn't help that Jos seemed to be getting better in the CC and only NC and AP averaged more than he did in the CC this season.
Realistically he'll be a huge miss in the one-day side and not only for what he could have been but for what he was. But, as said above, if he goes on to crack the Test team and stuff then we'd never see him anyway.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:10:33:23 by AGod.
Fair cop AG, they have obviously been more frequent than I imagined - though 22 not outs in 67 innings tends to distort an average somewhat (which may of course be cause for debate in itself).
I guess if Jos does turn out in the KP mould, his new county won't see much of him anyway. I'm gutted, but if Jos fancies himself as Prior's replacement, he needs to be playing behind the stumps regularly. How often do 2 young players as talented as CK & JB come along at once in the same team & both with keeping ambitions?
Of course I'm going to miss watching him in the T20 games, but Nick Compton is the bigger signing for Somerset in terms of the CC. We're a Div 1 side, so who in Div 2 fancies a step up? Is there a top order batsman who might be tempted with the captaincy to follow in 2015 perhaps?
Wonder how busy Chris Gayle is next summer if we need a bit of something special for a little while in the limited overs matches?
Of course I'm going to miss watching him in the T20 games, but Nick Compton is the bigger signing for Somerset in terms of the CC. We're a Div 1 side, so who in Div 2 fancies a step up? Is there a top order batsman who might be tempted with the captaincy to follow in 2015 perhaps?
Wonder how busy Chris Gayle is next summer if we need a bit of something special for a little while in the limited overs matches?
Yep, Compton is the bigger re-signing in terms of CC.
Without him we'd look feather-light in the ballast department in batting.
Without him we'd look feather-light in the ballast department in batting.
The major point to remember is
If Jos turns out to be the Super Star of English cricket,
Lancashire (unconfirmed) will not get the full benefit of his services,the call of England & IPL will see to that.
If he does not achieve his ambitions, he might well regret his move from his home county.
We will all watch his progress with interest.
If Jos turns out to be the Super Star of English cricket,
Lancashire (unconfirmed) will not get the full benefit of his services,the call of England & IPL will see to that.
If he does not achieve his ambitions, he might well regret his move from his home county.
We will all watch his progress with interest.
At least we will have all those one day trophy wins to remember him by, oh.....
Quote:AGod
I'll make one obvious point: If Jos becomes a 'world superstar'?
He'd play maybe one CC match per season for his County and, possibly, a T20 or Lord's final if his County gets there.
So, in actual fact it's really only if Jos becomes a really good CC batsman that is considered short of Test standard (and so doesn't play Tests) that this move will deny Jos to us in the long-term.
If Jos pans out as some of us think and becomes a big star? Lancs will gain almost nothing from this in the long-run.
Even if he never improves and so is only ever an ODI player then he'll probably gravitate to the God-forsaken IPL in time and that wretched garbage seems to get longer with each passing season.
Agod, I know you are spot on correct in every word of this, but even if Lancs gain only a little, it should have been our little, and it is always better to see a England size listed that says 'J. Buttler (Somerset)' than any alternative.
I know in a day or two, I'll see the reality is not as bad as it feels this morning, but I was clinging to the hope that yesterday afternoon he would have a change of heart, and that hope is gone.
Or is it? No announcement till Weds....No, stop it! Move on...!
It's very disappointing news, Steve, that is softened only very slightly by the fact that it was so expected.
It's perfectly possible that he won't be happy in pastures new and may end up 'coming home,' in time.
It's perfectly possible that he won't be happy in pastures new and may end up 'coming home,' in time.
More significant news is the captain says he wants to continue "leading" the team next year. Something to cheer up everyone looking forward to changes for 2014.
Yes, move on indeed.
He's gone, but Somerset CCC will continue.
I only have a deep interest in 4 - day cricket, not that of the 'slap and tickle' variety, but Jos has not done enough in my preferred format of the game consistently enough during the time that he has been with us, for me to deeply mourn his leaving.
Good luck to him at Lancashire or wherever. I am sure that he will need it.
He's gone, but Somerset CCC will continue.
I only have a deep interest in 4 - day cricket, not that of the 'slap and tickle' variety, but Jos has not done enough in my preferred format of the game consistently enough during the time that he has been with us, for me to deeply mourn his leaving.
Good luck to him at Lancashire or wherever. I am sure that he will need it.
Not really news, averageside.
Simply a re-capitulation by Trescothick of something he's said many times in recent weeks.
I suppose the only difference is that now folks know that he fully meant it rather than wanting to avoid indicating a possible desire to quit during the season.
Personally, changing the Captain is not really the number one item on my list unless, upon reflection, Tres does decide that the Captaincy has caused some of his batting issues this season.
The number one issue is fixing the CC batting and changing the Captain doesn't do that unless it miraculously fixes Trescothick's own batting.
Simply a re-capitulation by Trescothick of something he's said many times in recent weeks.
I suppose the only difference is that now folks know that he fully meant it rather than wanting to avoid indicating a possible desire to quit during the season.
Personally, changing the Captain is not really the number one item on my list unless, upon reflection, Tres does decide that the Captaincy has caused some of his batting issues this season.
The number one issue is fixing the CC batting and changing the Captain doesn't do that unless it miraculously fixes Trescothick's own batting.
If South Africa's committments during our season as was suggested when Surrey signed Biff (and remember there is no Champion's Trophy next year) then I'd be very keen to see Alviro signed for the whole of 2014.
The ICC Future Tours Programme shows only a short tour to Zim in August.
The ICC Future Tours Programme shows only a short tour to Zim in August.
Quote:stevecav
Good sense as always Agod.
AGod! You've got your own fan club now!! Well done to both of you! You never know? Grockle might ask for an application form!!
Quote:averageside
More significant news is the captain says he wants to continue "leading" the team next year. Something to cheer up everyone looking forward to changes for 2014.
It is difficult after the tremendous joy and entertain he has given us all over nearly 20 years, to suggest that the time has come to consider handing over the reins but IMO Marcus's best interests, and, more importantly the club's best as well are served if he could move halfway to the management side by continuing to play but take on a badly needed coaching role. And if things are to done properly, it is of course the DOC's decision about things next year I presume.
Yes, FE, it would be interesting to see how Alviro could/would fare if not significantly disrupted by international call-ups.
He started like a train.
Quite frankly, if not for his performance at the Oval in the early season CC game, we would almost have certainly have lost that match and hence, very possibly, finished behind Derbyshire.
DN is presumably a fan of AP so I think there'd be every chance that DN would be keen to get him back, subject to loads of tours not being loaded into the programme between now and whenever DN has to decide.
He started like a train.
Quite frankly, if not for his performance at the Oval in the early season CC game, we would almost have certainly have lost that match and hence, very possibly, finished behind Derbyshire.
DN is presumably a fan of AP so I think there'd be every chance that DN would be keen to get him back, subject to loads of tours not being loaded into the programme between now and whenever DN has to decide.
Not unless they post (TiC) Steve and even then.....
Just because Marcus says something Average doesn't make it so. He knows it isn't his decision alone
Just because Marcus says something Average doesn't make it so. He knows it isn't his decision alone
Quote:Probably their own.stevecav
You just never can tell who's tongue is in their cheek, can you?
Quote:Possibly. I guess when your only aim in life is to put a negative spin on everything it's quite easy to find things to cheer you up.averageside
More significant news is the captain says he wants to continue "leading" the team next year. Something to cheer up everyone looking forward to changes for 2014.
Quote:I guess or I know there are some who are incapable of looking at a sides performance and how it is lead or indeed any aspect of the club in anything other than blinkered , uncritical and in many cases a complete lack of cricket knowledge or how the club operates and performs, I'm not surprised by Index commentmikeindexQuote:Possibly. I guess when your only aim in life is to put a negative spin on everything it's quite easy to find things to cheer you up.averageside
More significant news is the captain says he wants to continue "leading" the team next year. Something to cheer up everyone looking forward to changes for 2014.
And your own view is balanced then is it Average?
A positive view is no more 'blinkered' than a negative view if it is all a poster ever provides.
So it's a case of no one being any less surprised by your comments and responses than you are by others.
There is nothing wrong with criticism if the critic can see or comments on the good as well as the bad. Doesn't happen though does it? Most of us are here all the time we see the good and the bad.
We only see you when there is something to criticise so it is good that you aren't surprised by the obvious comments that come with your sort of involvement.
No problem as long as people keep it civil but I'm afraid the comments come with your territory.
A positive view is no more 'blinkered' than a negative view if it is all a poster ever provides.
So it's a case of no one being any less surprised by your comments and responses than you are by others.
There is nothing wrong with criticism if the critic can see or comments on the good as well as the bad. Doesn't happen though does it? Most of us are here all the time we see the good and the bad.
We only see you when there is something to criticise so it is good that you aren't surprised by the obvious comments that come with your sort of involvement.
No problem as long as people keep it civil but I'm afraid the comments come with your territory.
Indeed the comment was a personal remark directed at me( not at oldboy who made a similar one regarding the captaincy), I was going to make a more pointed comment in response to Mr index,but with a good inkling the moderator in its usual fair and balanced dealing of these issues would have removed it.
Edited for excessive use of the quote facility
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:21:24:18 by Grockle.
Edited for excessive use of the quote facility
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:21:24:18 by Grockle.
But isn't your aim to highlight negative aspects of things to do with the county? I'd suggest that 95% of your posts are negative. So how is what Mikeindex posted any more personal than your response?
I can check the evidence but I would be surprised if there was one positive comment in every 10 since you started reposting. So what is incorrect about MikeI's statement?
You are surely not suggesting that your comments on Somerset are balanced are you?
I can check the evidence but I would be surprised if there was one positive comment in every 10 since you started reposting. So what is incorrect about MikeI's statement?
You are surely not suggesting that your comments on Somerset are balanced are you?
Quote:Only through this forum, which is quite enough.Ronniesabre
Do you know average mike?
I wish Jos well in the next phase of his career. Over the last few months, it seemed increasingly likely tha he would move. I sympathise with his need to keep wicket a good deal more often than he has done this season.
I doubt that Jos was looking for a guarantee, rather than an understanding. If I am right, the statement by the club might be thought somewhat disingenuous.
I have thought throughout the season that we should bend over backwards to try to keep Jos. I don't know anything that has gone on behind the scenes; but I do wonder whether batting him at 6 (which I think we have done in many matches) and selecting him as 'keeper on only a very few occasions (except when CK was injured) showed as much intent as would have been reasonable.
All water under the bridge now, of course. But it will be a little galling if Lancashire bat him at 4 and he makes a heap of runs.
I doubt that Jos was looking for a guarantee, rather than an understanding. If I am right, the statement by the club might be thought somewhat disingenuous.
I have thought throughout the season that we should bend over backwards to try to keep Jos. I don't know anything that has gone on behind the scenes; but I do wonder whether batting him at 6 (which I think we have done in many matches) and selecting him as 'keeper on only a very few occasions (except when CK was injured) showed as much intent as would have been reasonable.
All water under the bridge now, of course. But it will be a little galling if Lancashire bat him at 4 and he makes a heap of runs.
Quote:They are completely balanced. And dont tell me the comments of most of your flock are anything other than "unbalanced" . Whats your definition of "balanced". Of course we know from your guildlines.Something about 'Somerset bias compulsory"Grockle
But isn't your aim to highlight negative aspects of things to do with the county? I'd suggest that 95% of your posts are negative. So how is what Mikeindex posted any more personal than your response?
I can check the evidence but I would be surprised if there was one positive comment in every 10 since you started reposting. So what is incorrect about MikeI's statement?
You are surely not suggesting that your comments on Somerset are balanced are you?
Quote:There are indeed. And then again there are those who, like yourself, are incapable of seeing anything in a positive light no matter how much they need to suppress or distort the facts of a situation in order to find a negative spin on it.averageside
I guess or I know there are some who are incapable of looking at a sides performance and how it is lead or indeed any aspect of the club in anything other than blinkered , uncritical and in many cases a complete lack of cricket knowledge or how the club operates and performs, I'm not surprised by Index comment
And then there are those who, like the vast majority of Grockleites, are capable of seeing both positive and negative, though not necessarily in the same places or at the same times. Leading at times to some quite stimulating debate, believe it or not.
If they bat him at four with the result that I would expect, then it would show us up for batting him at six in such a high percentage of matches.
I also doubt that Jos himself was looking for a "guarantee."
However, Ashley Giles might have been and exerting pressure to the effect?
I also doubt that Jos himself was looking for a "guarantee."
However, Ashley Giles might have been and exerting pressure to the effect?
I don't have any complaint about Asley Giles. His role is to maximise the effectiveness of the England one-day teams; and encouraging Jos to 'keep regularly seems to me an entirely understandable part of that.
PS to all who think this wrangle has gone on long enough, I totally concur and will not become involved again.
Balance means commenting on good aspects as well as poor aspects.
Why do you use comments like 'your flock'? What does it achieve? Posters here make their own comments, they are not processed through me.
The comments against your type of post are not pushed out from Oman for posters to post in response to your comments.
I'm sorry but you seem to have no concept of balance and when criticism comes your way you seem to have no defence but to question intelligence, cricket knowledge or some other aspect of character or bring me into it as some kind of controlling influence.
It's not there Average except in your view of the world. If Somerset bias is compulsory then you fail that completely unless you define it as biased criticism in almost every aspect of Somerset County Cricket Club.
This is not "SCCCBashing.com". Nor is it "SCCCstroking.com".
I think it is pretty obvious that you read very little except when you post because the debate since the end of the Notts game has been pretty two sided.
But as I say. You can't really take offence at comments of negativity because the evidence is here for all to see.
We've been here long enough to know our stuff and coming on, making bald general statements about something as if it is obvious to all and then taking umbridge because people who know as much if not more about the club than you disagree is not going to work.
You have to come on prepared to back up what you say and are quite welcome to ask others to back up what they say. We mostly know the score whereas you seem to have to learn it.
Defend yourself by all means but with OBJECTIVE factual backup and a civil tongue not SUBJECTIVE opinionated comments about people you quite obviously do not know outside of this forum.
For example you have no idea about MI's level of cricketing knowledge and couldn't back that comment up if you tried. So why say it?
Only other thing is leave insulting me out of it because that is also not acceptable. You want a moderator decision request one using the PM system - don't come on here as if you know me. You don't know me any more than you know other people on here - you've made little attempt to get to know people here in any civil way.
Come on and be part of the community or please stay away. Don't arrive full of aggression and look for a fight while claiming persecution and unfair treatment before you start. We don't have to put up with that. You are a guest here as all posters are.
It is not compulsory for you to post and we do not have to accept your attitude if it is felt to be against the main objective of this site.
I have been given the approval by the posting population to deal with this and I have no complaints from SN HQ so I hope this is clear.
As we are hoping for positive progress in the future this may all be pointless because you probably won't be posting anyway. But if you do show a level of balance (I'm sorry I, like many others, don't agree with your assessment of your own contributions to date) then I'm sure you will be welcomed to the debate table in a different way.
If you don't want that then I'm afraid you may find the aspect of choice taken away from you.
Oh and the comments about our view of Somerset... you are aware that this the independent Somerset supporters site and has been since 1994 (many have followed this club for a lot longer than that). There is a difference between wanting the club to do well and accepting everything it does to get there without criticism or comment.
Your own 'blinkered' view seems to be that we are not like that but then you don't know us too well I'm afraid and you seem to not be around enough to discover anything different.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:18:35:11 by Grockle.
Why do you use comments like 'your flock'? What does it achieve? Posters here make their own comments, they are not processed through me.
The comments against your type of post are not pushed out from Oman for posters to post in response to your comments.
I'm sorry but you seem to have no concept of balance and when criticism comes your way you seem to have no defence but to question intelligence, cricket knowledge or some other aspect of character or bring me into it as some kind of controlling influence.
It's not there Average except in your view of the world. If Somerset bias is compulsory then you fail that completely unless you define it as biased criticism in almost every aspect of Somerset County Cricket Club.
This is not "SCCCBashing.com". Nor is it "SCCCstroking.com".
I think it is pretty obvious that you read very little except when you post because the debate since the end of the Notts game has been pretty two sided.
But as I say. You can't really take offence at comments of negativity because the evidence is here for all to see.
We've been here long enough to know our stuff and coming on, making bald general statements about something as if it is obvious to all and then taking umbridge because people who know as much if not more about the club than you disagree is not going to work.
You have to come on prepared to back up what you say and are quite welcome to ask others to back up what they say. We mostly know the score whereas you seem to have to learn it.
Defend yourself by all means but with OBJECTIVE factual backup and a civil tongue not SUBJECTIVE opinionated comments about people you quite obviously do not know outside of this forum.
For example you have no idea about MI's level of cricketing knowledge and couldn't back that comment up if you tried. So why say it?
Only other thing is leave insulting me out of it because that is also not acceptable. You want a moderator decision request one using the PM system - don't come on here as if you know me. You don't know me any more than you know other people on here - you've made little attempt to get to know people here in any civil way.
Come on and be part of the community or please stay away. Don't arrive full of aggression and look for a fight while claiming persecution and unfair treatment before you start. We don't have to put up with that. You are a guest here as all posters are.
It is not compulsory for you to post and we do not have to accept your attitude if it is felt to be against the main objective of this site.
I have been given the approval by the posting population to deal with this and I have no complaints from SN HQ so I hope this is clear.
As we are hoping for positive progress in the future this may all be pointless because you probably won't be posting anyway. But if you do show a level of balance (I'm sorry I, like many others, don't agree with your assessment of your own contributions to date) then I'm sure you will be welcomed to the debate table in a different way.
If you don't want that then I'm afraid you may find the aspect of choice taken away from you.
Oh and the comments about our view of Somerset... you are aware that this the independent Somerset supporters site and has been since 1994 (many have followed this club for a lot longer than that). There is a difference between wanting the club to do well and accepting everything it does to get there without criticism or comment.
Your own 'blinkered' view seems to be that we are not like that but then you don't know us too well I'm afraid and you seem to not be around enough to discover anything different.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:28:18:35:11 by Grockle.
We all know that our performances this season have not been up to the high standards we have set ourselves in previous seasons but, just for the record Averageside, we are still in Div.1 of the CC, we reached the semi finals of the 40 over competition and we performed reasonably well in the 20/20.Not so many years ago that would have been considered riches!
As Wickham brought up something that has been suggested a lot in the past half of the season along with Jos's stats I thought I'd have a look
Jos played in 9 CC1 games
He did not bat 3 times so he had 15 at bats. All of them were at 5 or above in the line-up.
He came in at 5 4 times scoring a total of 72 runs
Except for 3 scores at 6 of 94, 85 and 119 he failed to reach over 35 in any of his other innings.
Taking into account that most of the time the openers were not part of any Jos equation (Trescothick, Jones and Suppiah), the four main players involved in the 3 and 4 batting positions were Alviro Petersen, Nick Compton, Dean Elgar and James Hildreth.
I'm not sure how Somerset could have accommodated Jos in the top 4 based on consistent performance or batted him at 5 when he averaged less than 20 in that position. His big scores were at 6 and all in the first half of the season so when the possibility might have come about his scores were not particularly impressive (one score of 35).
That's just the bald assessment - trying him might have changed it but would we have justified doing it had he not been considering his future?
Moot point I suppose but I had to have a look for my own piece of mind and once you've done it you have to share with someone!!
Jos played in 9 CC1 games
He did not bat 3 times so he had 15 at bats. All of them were at 5 or above in the line-up.
He came in at 5 4 times scoring a total of 72 runs
Except for 3 scores at 6 of 94, 85 and 119 he failed to reach over 35 in any of his other innings.
Taking into account that most of the time the openers were not part of any Jos equation (Trescothick, Jones and Suppiah), the four main players involved in the 3 and 4 batting positions were Alviro Petersen, Nick Compton, Dean Elgar and James Hildreth.
I'm not sure how Somerset could have accommodated Jos in the top 4 based on consistent performance or batted him at 5 when he averaged less than 20 in that position. His big scores were at 6 and all in the first half of the season so when the possibility might have come about his scores were not particularly impressive (one score of 35).
That's just the bald assessment - trying him might have changed it but would we have justified doing it had he not been considering his future?
Moot point I suppose but I had to have a look for my own piece of mind and once you've done it you have to share with someone!!
Thought it was only fair to look at the direct comparison with CK who surprisingly played more games than Jos.
He played 11 CC1 games and did not bat 3 times as well.
Therefore he had 19 at bats.
All were at 5 except for the first game when he was number 3 and got 93 in the two innings.
At number 5 he also had three scores over 50.. 59, 55 and 148
He had four other scores over 30 (31 to 43) against Jos's one of 35
There might have been a case for swopping the two from 5 to 6 and vice versa but neither really had a case for 3 or 4 - CK may have made a case but one game isn't enough really. However, on pure games CK was a more consistent 5 than Jos but not by all that much.
He played 11 CC1 games and did not bat 3 times as well.
Therefore he had 19 at bats.
All were at 5 except for the first game when he was number 3 and got 93 in the two innings.
At number 5 he also had three scores over 50.. 59, 55 and 148
He had four other scores over 30 (31 to 43) against Jos's one of 35
There might have been a case for swopping the two from 5 to 6 and vice versa but neither really had a case for 3 or 4 - CK may have made a case but one game isn't enough really. However, on pure games CK was a more consistent 5 than Jos but not by all that much.
I can't speak for Wickham, but I was referring to one-day cricket in respect of Jos, not CC.
Cool then don't speak for Wickham and this analysis has nothing to do with what you are referring to. That's Ok by me and thanks for sharing.
Thanks, Grockle. An eminently reasonable response. My instinct still is that more might have been done, but I accept that the factual basis of my earlier comment was incorrect.
I have some sympathy with AG's point on one-day cricket - though I suppose it could have been said, if we had batted him at 4, that we were not giving him practice in his England role as a finisher.
I have some sympathy with AG's point on one-day cricket - though I suppose it could have been said, if we had batted him at 4, that we were not giving him practice in his England role as a finisher.
Yep it all got a little complicated didn't it.
Jos should be able to progress to top four in all forms IMHO but the long game needs more work of a different kind and I don't see where it is going to happen without the mates he had here. With Nick, Marcus, James, Pete and Craig he could have seen all formats of the CC1 game and learned from some of the best. I hope the quality of experience is at Old Trafford and willing to put itself out to make him what he could be.
Jos should be able to progress to top four in all forms IMHO but the long game needs more work of a different kind and I don't see where it is going to happen without the mates he had here. With Nick, Marcus, James, Pete and Craig he could have seen all formats of the CC1 game and learned from some of the best. I hope the quality of experience is at Old Trafford and willing to put itself out to make him what he could be.
Can I say I'm personally affronted, as I suspect many others on here will be, by average's description of posters here "in many cases" having "a complete lack of cricket knowledge"?
I won't detail my pretty miserable credentials of over 40 years as a passionate follower, player and nerd of the game, the Somerset county game in particular. I also consider myself a knowledgeable supporter, not just of Somerset but of the game, the sport as a whole. I'm just glad that the vast majority of those I come across who also love the game are not as miserable, graceless and sad as one particular poster here. Sorry if that's too personal or abusive, but it's how I feel.
PS To show I'm not too cuddly, blinkered or just one of the moderator's minions doing his bidding, could I also plead with him to never again use the phrase "at bats" when he means "innings"?
I won't detail my pretty miserable credentials of over 40 years as a passionate follower, player and nerd of the game, the Somerset county game in particular. I also consider myself a knowledgeable supporter, not just of Somerset but of the game, the sport as a whole. I'm just glad that the vast majority of those I come across who also love the game are not as miserable, graceless and sad as one particular poster here. Sorry if that's too personal or abusive, but it's how I feel.
PS To show I'm not too cuddly, blinkered or just one of the moderator's minions doing his bidding, could I also plead with him to never again use the phrase "at bats" when he means "innings"?
I'm just showing my complete lack of cricketing knowledge because Average needs all the help and evidence he can get to show how inferior this place and its members are in relation to his own balanced and truly realistic view of Somerset cricket.
I also spend far too much time with American baseball nerds trying to convert them to the true cause. It's rubbing off - I'm going native!!
What the hell is an "RBI" for heaven's sake?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:29:04:13:16 by Grockle.
I also spend far too much time with American baseball nerds trying to convert them to the true cause. It's rubbing off - I'm going native!!
What the hell is an "RBI" for heaven's sake?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:29:04:13:16 by Grockle.
I'll join with Shep any day, once having had the misfortune to sit close to averageside (or a clone thereof) in front of the OP.
RBI: Run Batted In, when a player is advanced to Home by the batter's own run. See some online dictionary or another.
RBI: Run Batted In, when a player is advanced to Home by the batter's own run. See some online dictionary or another.
What's so amazing is certain posters want to talk about "averageside". But usually they are incapable of having an argument on cricket facts but resort to abuse . Ah the so called Somerset"friendliness". Maybe because some arent from the county ,just hatched there and moved.
"They...resort to abuse"
"Maybe because some...just hatched there and moved."
Anyone else here see the irony?
"Maybe because some...just hatched there and moved."
Anyone else here see the irony?
I won't mention any names because that inevitably starts another thread. CAN PEACE PLEASE BREAK OUT?
Surely all we want is to express our opinions on matters SOMERSET CCC! There is no need to be abusive or rude - can't we have a bit of irony, mixed with some thought through arguments. Yes there can be some friendly banter about some views, BUT let's all keep within the guidelines laid down for this forum, and run generally in a fair but robust way by the moderator, who when all is said and done has to answer to the problem areas. The buck stops with him, and we should all be adult enough to accept his rulings, warts and all.
AND REMEMBER - we don't have to reply to every comment which is published. Sometimes Silence is golden!!
Surely all we want is to express our opinions on matters SOMERSET CCC! There is no need to be abusive or rude - can't we have a bit of irony, mixed with some thought through arguments. Yes there can be some friendly banter about some views, BUT let's all keep within the guidelines laid down for this forum, and run generally in a fair but robust way by the moderator, who when all is said and done has to answer to the problem areas. The buck stops with him, and we should all be adult enough to accept his rulings, warts and all.
AND REMEMBER - we don't have to reply to every comment which is published. Sometimes Silence is golden!!
I know one who doesn't but there you go.
I'm not sure people 'want' to talk about you sir but I for one I can't wait for this 'argument on cricket facts' - when are you going to start that (TiC)?
It is a case of getting what is served up I'm afraid Average.
Please base your posts on facts asnd I'm sure others will follow suit.
If you "insult" then you breed "insults" - mild as this little contretemp is in relation to some from the past.
I'll moderate though. If you lot can't talk nicely to each other please don't talk at all or I'll remove the whole thing. There you go.
If posters dislike what a poster posts then we have always found in the past that no response is the best response and it is certainly the way suggested by SN.
I'm not sure people 'want' to talk about you sir but I for one I can't wait for this 'argument on cricket facts' - when are you going to start that (TiC)?
It is a case of getting what is served up I'm afraid Average.
Please base your posts on facts asnd I'm sure others will follow suit.
If you "insult" then you breed "insults" - mild as this little contretemp is in relation to some from the past.
I'll moderate though. If you lot can't talk nicely to each other please don't talk at all or I'll remove the whole thing. There you go.
If posters dislike what a poster posts then we have always found in the past that no response is the best response and it is certainly the way suggested by SN.
Casomer. The character you were sitting near (if he had glasses) was probably 'Spike' who has been a fixture of the place for years and has hardly ever had a good word to say for anything or anyone on the pitch - but he's there every game commentating on how miserable everything is to anyone who will listen or sit near him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:29:14:44:09 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:29:14:44:09 by Grockle.
You are preaching to the converted there Grockle I hope some do take note of what you said.
Remember it takes two to have an argument and only one to stop it.
I love saying that.
Remember it takes two to have an argument and only one to stop it.
I love saying that.
I don't think its totally to the converted Mike. 
Average seems to arrive permanently angry, complains about the lack of 'Somerset friendliness' and then goes looking for a fight with anyone who disagrees with him.
Anyway OB beat me to it Mike. In this case the only way I can see to stop it is to not participate in dialogue as you and he suggest.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:29:12:14:28 by Grockle.
Average seems to arrive permanently angry, complains about the lack of 'Somerset friendliness' and then goes looking for a fight with anyone who disagrees with him.
Anyway OB beat me to it Mike. In this case the only way I can see to stop it is to not participate in dialogue as you and he suggest.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:29:12:14:28 by Grockle.
I think I have encountered Spike. Last year on two occasions I found myself sitting just in front of a gentleman who kept up a non stop barrage of criticism of our batters, bowlers, fielders, the committee, the pitch, Brian Rose and the canteen cat! After a few minutes I removed myself to another part of the ground.
A few weeks later on another of my all too infrequent visits to Taunton I again found myself sitting near this gentleman who was again explaining to his friends and anyone within earshot that the Club was going to hell in a handcart. I felt obliged to tell him that if things were so bad he should stay away from the ground because he was spoiling the day for the rest of us. It shut him up for about 3 minutes and then he started again. Not wishing to have a full scale row with him, I again moved.Why on earth he comes to matches is beyond me.
A few weeks later on another of my all too infrequent visits to Taunton I again found myself sitting near this gentleman who was again explaining to his friends and anyone within earshot that the Club was going to hell in a handcart. I felt obliged to tell him that if things were so bad he should stay away from the ground because he was spoiling the day for the rest of us. It shut him up for about 3 minutes and then he started again. Not wishing to have a full scale row with him, I again moved.Why on earth he comes to matches is beyond me.
When I said you were preaching to the converted I was referring to myself, mind you I don't think I have ever been any different. 
He's been there for years Angell.
It's become so much part of his make-up that I don't think he has any other way of interacting. He was there when Jamie Cox was captain, couldn't see the value of having anyone no-one had ever heard of. I forget the number of years that Caddick was past it but they started in the early noughties. His best phrase is 'line and length' I seem to remember which comes out whenever anyone doesn't take a wicket in an over.
It doesn't compute does it with anyone wanting to go and watch a game? Whatever gets you through the night I suppose.
It's become so much part of his make-up that I don't think he has any other way of interacting. He was there when Jamie Cox was captain, couldn't see the value of having anyone no-one had ever heard of. I forget the number of years that Caddick was past it but they started in the early noughties. His best phrase is 'line and length' I seem to remember which comes out whenever anyone doesn't take a wicket in an over.
It doesn't compute does it with anyone wanting to go and watch a game? Whatever gets you through the night I suppose.
I've encountered 'Spike' - in fact I told him to shut up during the Surrey game. If he really is averageside I feel even better about that now than I did at the time.
I very much doubt Spike would bother with us - bloody supporter websites! What use are they? I also don't think he works for a living - retired old gentleman I believe.
I don’t have any problems at all with anyone who watches Somerset cricket, and who might express their personal opinion that the side is either brilliant, p**s poor or any of the other multiple categories in between.
I do not believe that my opinion is always right or any better than theirs. They too have a right to be heard.
For years, I enjoyed the company of a gentleman whom I imagine could be likened to the afore – mentioned ‘Spike’ – although as I know only too well, it was not the same individual.
He was always there, travelled on most away trips, was a member of an Area Committee, read vastly on the subject of cricket – about its history, laws, statistics etc.
Yet, whilst he could be over critical towards some players (not only did he not blame them for their perceived shortcomings but instead he lay blame upon the staff and personnel at the club who put them into the team) he also gave praise whenever he considered it to be well merited.
Perhaps his 'negative' feelings were born out of sheer frustration and disappointment, and who can not come to understand that a little?
Contrast that with another member who likewise was always there, and held a position within the club. This person was extremely well – meaning but upon examination was found to hold a scant knowledge of the game, and would defend the players and officials to the hilt.
They were never considered to be at fault, and were all too wonderful for words.
I suppose that’s life – everybody being different is what makes the world go around.
I never got up and walked away from the former individual that I mentioned because I not only liked him, but I respected him as well. We would have many a friendly debate on various aspects of Somerset cricket, agreeing to disagree at times, but always at the end of a day’s play shake each other by the hand and wish them well until the next time we met.
Just my personal thoughts of course.
I do not believe that my opinion is always right or any better than theirs. They too have a right to be heard.
For years, I enjoyed the company of a gentleman whom I imagine could be likened to the afore – mentioned ‘Spike’ – although as I know only too well, it was not the same individual.
He was always there, travelled on most away trips, was a member of an Area Committee, read vastly on the subject of cricket – about its history, laws, statistics etc.
Yet, whilst he could be over critical towards some players (not only did he not blame them for their perceived shortcomings but instead he lay blame upon the staff and personnel at the club who put them into the team) he also gave praise whenever he considered it to be well merited.
Perhaps his 'negative' feelings were born out of sheer frustration and disappointment, and who can not come to understand that a little?
Contrast that with another member who likewise was always there, and held a position within the club. This person was extremely well – meaning but upon examination was found to hold a scant knowledge of the game, and would defend the players and officials to the hilt.
They were never considered to be at fault, and were all too wonderful for words.
I suppose that’s life – everybody being different is what makes the world go around.
I never got up and walked away from the former individual that I mentioned because I not only liked him, but I respected him as well. We would have many a friendly debate on various aspects of Somerset cricket, agreeing to disagree at times, but always at the end of a day’s play shake each other by the hand and wish them well until the next time we met.
Just my personal thoughts of course.
Sounds like he understood the concept of balance CP so I doubt he would be alienated by anyone here.
Spike is famous for his negativity but an acquired taste because it is relentless and not always based on anything to do with the events on the pitch. But people know where he sits and those regulars there know where he is and rib him gently about it on a pretty regular basis.
You are quite correct, it takes all sorts. I personally worry about the ones who can't laugh at themselves or wwith their companions occasionally and to who all this is far far too serious in the long run.
Spike is famous for his negativity but an acquired taste because it is relentless and not always based on anything to do with the events on the pitch. But people know where he sits and those regulars there know where he is and rib him gently about it on a pretty regular basis.
You are quite correct, it takes all sorts. I personally worry about the ones who can't laugh at themselves or wwith their companions occasionally and to who all this is far far too serious in the long run.
A bit strange that Lancs have only announced about Jos today, unless we were forced to announce it early for some reason.
Thanks Roger
I couldn't read your message at first I had a advert over the top of it, it was okay after I reloaded the page.
I couldn't read your message at first I had a advert over the top of it, it was okay after I reloaded the page.
From what I have seen and heard of Jos in the media, on the field and taking into account his expressed long term loyalty to Somerset, it would not be a surprise if he had asked for publicity surrounding the move to be low key.
I know the guys put us all through it this year, I am already missing keeping up with our (and our rivals) scores. Roll on summer 2014!
Marcus Trescothick has insisted he will not relinquish the Somerset captaincy despite a disappointing season.
The 37-year-old former England opener failed to score a century for his county this summer for the first time since 1998. [www.bbc.co.uk]
Marcus needs to do what is best for the team not himself, the committee must also decide the same thing.
The 37-year-old former England opener failed to score a century for his county this summer for the first time since 1998. [www.bbc.co.uk]
Marcus needs to do what is best for the team not himself, the committee must also decide the same thing.
Well he may not plan to but it is more than his decision and its a long winter. I'm sure it will be discussed in the fullness of time.
It's the language that the journos use that gets me. I read MT's actual comments as saying that he would like to continue as captain but it's not his decision. Where is the "defiance" and the "insistence" that he will not step down? I'd give him another year but thankfully it's not my decision.
Taunton-born? I don't think so.
With inaccuracies like that can you believe anything else in the report?
With inaccuracies like that can you believe anything else in the report?
Wonder what:
a) Mr Nosworthy makes of Mr Trescothick ?
b) What Mr Trescothick makes of Mr Nosworthy ?
c) What Mr Rose makes of Messrs Trescothick & Nosworthy ? (not that it's relevant anyway I guess !)
d) What they all make of the inconsistencies of the rest of the team ?!
Answers on a postcard please to Grockles.........
Grizzzly
a) Mr Nosworthy makes of Mr Trescothick ?
b) What Mr Trescothick makes of Mr Nosworthy ?
c) What Mr Rose makes of Messrs Trescothick & Nosworthy ? (not that it's relevant anyway I guess !)
d) What they all make of the inconsistencies of the rest of the team ?!
Answers on a postcard please to Grockles.........
Grizzzly
I am beginning to wonder about the wording at the beginning of that article, it is only the last bit I can be sure of.
He insists he won't relinquish, as in voluntarily give up, the Captaincy. Good. Glad it means enough to him to still want it.
I see this story as nothing more than a "mind your own business" to Caddy, to be honest.
I see this story as nothing more than a "mind your own business" to Caddy, to be honest.
If we have have to many answers a few days after the end of the season, it will be a long winter.
You have to wonder about the BBC reporter's concern for accuracy. If he can't get the basics right how can he expect readers to believe the rest?
Quote:BristolRob
Taunton-born? I don't think so.
With inaccuracies like that can you believe anything else in the report?
Surely that sounds better than Saltford?? or even Keynsham??
Mr Batchelor in fact lived in Saltford not K E Y N S H A M.
Not a lot of people know that.
Not a lot of people know that.
But he liked it enough to spell it out.
Some of our younger readers will wonder what the hell we are on about.
Some of our younger readers will wonder what the hell we are on about.
Quote:BristolRob
Mr Batchelor in fact lived in Saltford not K E Y N S H A M.
Not a lot of people know that.
Horace Batchelor's house was halfway between Keynsham and Saltford, though I can't be certain of the accurate postal address. I went carol singing at his house.
I walk past Harold's house most days in the summer. We've got two brothers who played the game buried in the churchyard as well though presently can't remember the name (bit of a trek to find out). He's buried in Nether Stowey though.
Life is too short for me to read such a long threadm which I have only just come to, but the gist of it seems to be that Somerset won the championship and Buttler has left Somerset to take over the captaincy of Australia. I have no complaints about either event (and please don't tell me I'm wrong).
I noted a nice post early on by Stevecav about how proud he is of Trescothick, trully one of ours. Obviously I support that totally - and I trust steve can understand that some of us older supporters feel the same about the great Harold Gimblett who, but for the war, would have enjoyed as distinguished an England career as MT did.
That ties in nicely with Grockle's post immediately above.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:07:12:39:01 by Loyal of Lhasa..
I noted a nice post early on by Stevecav about how proud he is of Trescothick, trully one of ours. Obviously I support that totally - and I trust steve can understand that some of us older supporters feel the same about the great Harold Gimblett who, but for the war, would have enjoyed as distinguished an England career as MT did.
That ties in nicely with Grockle's post immediately above.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:07:12:39:01 by Loyal of Lhasa..
It would be wrong to suggest that those who want to see another captain are heartless scoundrels, the sort of people that hounded Harold out of the game all those years ago....far from it, or in my opinion at least.
I truly believe that by relinquishing the captaincy Marcus could prolong his highly distinguished career, indeed, treating him as some sort of demi-God may be placing him under the sort of stresses that could not only harm his form but also damage his health.
Let's not get too emotional over these things.
They are two very different men, playing the game in a different era, that they play, or played for Somerset being the only common denominator.
I truly believe that by relinquishing the captaincy Marcus could prolong his highly distinguished career, indeed, treating him as some sort of demi-God may be placing him under the sort of stresses that could not only harm his form but also damage his health.
Let's not get too emotional over these things.
They are two very different men, playing the game in a different era, that they play, or played for Somerset being the only common denominator.
Nope, not directly, just making a point, a point of view based on numerous postings over the season.
I have to agree in its entirety to Big Jim's posting yesterday of 19:19.
I have expressed my point of view before and I agree with BJ. But it was interesting to read George Dobell's article in which, commenting on our poor season, he points towards our DoC.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
[www.espncricinfo.com]
I'm still struggling to remember posts where anyone has suggested that critics of MT's captaincy on Grockles are 'heartless scoundrels' or people trying to 'hound' him out of the game. Maybe Clarence, if you agree with the entirety of BJ's post you may be able to offer enlightenment as to where such posts exist?
Surely what happened to Harold and comments about Marcus' captaincy on here really do have very little to link them together.
Surely what happened to Harold and comments about Marcus' captaincy on here really do have very little to link them together.
"Maybe Clarence, if you agree with the entirety of BJ's post you may be able to offer enlightenment as to where such posts exist?"
Big Jim has already adequately answered that point to you himself, and I have nothing further to add to it.
Big Jim has already adequately answered that point to you himself, and I have nothing further to add to it.
Well he hasn't and neither have you Clarence.
I'll just continue to assume that the conversations on here have very little to do with 'scoundrels' or 'hounding' and are simply discussions between people with an interest who have different views on the quality/longevity of Marcus' captaincy with little more than that on their agenda.
I've read no particular ulterior motives on either side and BJ is quite right to say that is it wrong to suggest there were any of the implications he goes on to highlight.
Comments about Demi-gods and comparisons with the issues of Gimblett's life as a cricketer therefore have nothing really to do with the parties discussions of the captaincy issue as far as I can see on these pages in 2013.
I'll just continue to assume that the conversations on here have very little to do with 'scoundrels' or 'hounding' and are simply discussions between people with an interest who have different views on the quality/longevity of Marcus' captaincy with little more than that on their agenda.
I've read no particular ulterior motives on either side and BJ is quite right to say that is it wrong to suggest there were any of the implications he goes on to highlight.
Comments about Demi-gods and comparisons with the issues of Gimblett's life as a cricketer therefore have nothing really to do with the parties discussions of the captaincy issue as far as I can see on these pages in 2013.
Totally agree with your 12.16 Grockle and could not have put it better myself.
I think we would be better off with MT not captain but I am not " hounding " him anywhere and think HG is irrelevant to the discussion. Not even sure I am right just think he would be better without the captaincy.
I think we would be better off with MT not captain but I am not " hounding " him anywhere and think HG is irrelevant to the discussion. Not even sure I am right just think he would be better without the captaincy.
BJs post is commonsense personified! I can give it not higher praise than that!! Of course, LOL might!!!
I have said on a number of occasions that MT gas earned the right to be afforded as much latitude as possible in deciding for himself when the time is right to give up the leadership. I have also said that I believe mid-season is almost never the right time for these kind of discussions.
I have never, however, suggested that those who feel differently are "scoundrels", or are placing Marcus' mental well-being at stake.
On this one occasion, I don't really know where Jim's coming from TBH!
I have never, however, suggested that those who feel differently are "scoundrels", or are placing Marcus' mental well-being at stake.
On this one occasion, I don't really know where Jim's coming from TBH!
Still not sure how important a change of captaincy is or might be.
Still a bit worried that IF it's the right thing to change we might not do for sentimental reasons.
Still a bit worried that IF it's the right thing to change we might not do for sentimental reasons.
Playing professional cricket has very little to do with sentiment these days AG.
It's a million pound business - the days of the 'old boy network' has gone in sensible organisations I'm afraid.
It's a million pound business - the days of the 'old boy network' has gone in sensible organisations I'm afraid.
I trust it is clear that my mention of Harold Gimblett was in the context only of hoping that the enormous respect and affection on the part of older supporters for Gimblett is comparable to that of younger supporters for Trescothick - and that one is not incompatible with the other. Both men were absolutely outstanding opening batsmen who played for only one county, that of their birth, and will be recalled as long as cricket is played in Somerset.
My comment had nothing to with captaincy or the actual or possible departure from the side of either man.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
My comment had nothing to with captaincy or the actual or possible departure from the side of either man.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Whoever is captain in 2014 could use 1000+ extra runs for the season to make their job easier. It's easier to take risks as captain if there are runs on the board. If they could be mostly in the first innings that would be even better!
I do sometimes wonder if a fairer scoring system might be a flat 25 for a win and then batting and bowling points based on the total number of runs and wickets taken in the match. Points for a draw seem. just about right
I do sometimes wonder if a fairer scoring system might be a flat 25 for a win and then batting and bowling points based on the total number of runs and wickets taken in the match. Points for a draw seem. just about right
Totally clear LoL. He has a fitting legacy in a typical Somerset village and I could almost see him coming out of the house with a bag of kit. I doubt the view from his window has changed in the last century
I think I may have been the first to mention Harold Gimblett, but it was intended in the same spirit expressed by LoL. I happen to have seen Harold play, albeit too briefly, in the infamous one day match at Bath in 1953.
Incidentally I think Harold may be buried in Watchet, which would be appropriate since that club arranged his Somerset trial. Someone who has the David Foot book will no doubt be able to confirm one way or another.
Incidentally I think Harold may be buried in Watchet, which would be appropriate since that club arranged his Somerset trial. Someone who has the David Foot book will no doubt be able to confirm one way or another.
You may be right about his grave Casomer I can't recall why I thought it was over the hill in Nether.
If you want to look for comparisons in terms of career parrallel's let us all hope that Harold's Test career does not mirror that of another son of Somerset over the next decade. The batsman of his age - 3 tests to his name.
If you want to look for comparisons in terms of career parrallel's let us all hope that Harold's Test career does not mirror that of another son of Somerset over the next decade. The batsman of his age - 3 tests to his name.
Harold died in Dorset, but I can't immediately find out where he is buried.
if someone has a copy of Foot's biography of Harold (I can't find mine) that should tell you.
I have his biography by David Foot but can't put my hand on it for the moment. If I remember he and his wife were living in a mobile home near Ferndown when he died. I can't remember about the burial place.
I've had a quick look through David Foot's admirable biography, but can't find a reference to Gimblett's place of burial.
Getting out the book has reminded that I need to reread it.
Getting out the book has reminded that I need to reread it.
Harold is indeed buried in Watchet.
He died in Verwood.
Info via Google.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:08:13:27:35 by BristolRob .
He died in Verwood.
Info via Google.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:08:13:27:35 by BristolRob .
For me the news of the death of HG remains a JFK moment - I remember precisely where I was - washing up in my kitchen in Nigeria - when the news came through on the World Service. It was an extremely sad moment, given that I had known him as a man (the father of my friend Lawrence) as well as an heroic cricketer.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:If you want to look for comparisons in terms of career parrallel's let us all hope that Harold's Test career does not mirror that of another son of Somerset over the next decade. The batsman of his age - 3 tests to his name.
Who? Three tests? I don't know the player you have in mind.
I was not sure what Grockle meant by the "next decade", but I immediately thought of Maurice Tremlett, a decade or so younger than Gimblett, who also played only three Tests.
Much later there was Lathwell, who played only two Tests. All three men were treated very disdainfully by the selectors in my opinion.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Much later there was Lathwell, who played only two Tests. All three men were treated very disdainfully by the selectors in my opinion.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Indeed. I too thought of Lathwell, but knew that "three" was not correct.
My suspicion is that Grockle means to refer to Compton, who has played nine.
My suspicion is that Grockle means to refer to Compton, who has played nine.
Well as Gimblett's Test career is over we have to hope that A N Other's career does not mirror Harold's rather than the other way around!
I hypothesise that Grockle's post is a rather convoluted reference to Jos B. Expressing the hope that Jos, the batsman of this age (as HG was of his age) gets more more than three tests.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:09:00:41:00 by Casomer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:09:00:41:00 by Casomer.
Well it made sense to me - and Casomer (Many thanks for the clarification).
But it does I suppose show that Gimblett wasn't the only master batsman in the eyes of many who wasn't the flavour of any year really with the selectors.
I would almost put Ian Blackwell in that category. There were few spinning all rounders who were better than him yet he was grossly underused by his country (and IMHO probably the reason why we performed very poorly in at least one one day international tournament).
Your face, your body or your style doesn't fit and it makes little difference how good you are.
But it does I suppose show that Gimblett wasn't the only master batsman in the eyes of many who wasn't the flavour of any year really with the selectors.
I would almost put Ian Blackwell in that category. There were few spinning all rounders who were better than him yet he was grossly underused by his country (and IMHO probably the reason why we performed very poorly in at least one one day international tournament).
Your face, your body or your style doesn't fit and it makes little difference how good you are.
Not somerset related, but I offer up KP as evidence to the contrary.
Interestingly, spelling correction wanted to turn KP into NO!
Interestingly, spelling correction wanted to turn KP into NO!
Not sure I agree with that Grockle. Being an international sportsman ( I think ) involves so much more than just talent and ability, although that is obviously paramount. You need to be a team player, able to fit in / get on with others especially on tour, be prepared to get and keep fit, be able to set an example to the adoring kids and behave yourself.
Agree that some are treated badly by the selectors but they are not perfect and they make a judgement - as with NC - which I may not agree with but that is their right.
With HG his problems are well documented. With ML he was sent in too early and could not cope for whatever reason.
With IB I really don't know.
Agree that some are treated badly by the selectors but they are not perfect and they make a judgement - as with NC - which I may not agree with but that is their right.
With HG his problems are well documented. With ML he was sent in too early and could not cope for whatever reason.
With IB I really don't know.
Rodders: what is the evidence that Lathwell couldn't cope? It certainly wasn't his batting.
I know he had difficulties later on, but these might not have been so serious had he been treated more considerately during his all too short Test career.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I know he had difficulties later on, but these might not have been so serious had he been treated more considerately during his all too short Test career.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I don't know what you aren't agreeing with me about Rodders.
I didn't say anything about why a player wasn't selected just that being one of the greatest players of your age wasn't always a 'nailed on' reason for an international career.
So personally I don't disagree with anything you posted I don't think
I didn't say anything about why a player wasn't selected just that being one of the greatest players of your age wasn't always a 'nailed on' reason for an international career.
So personally I don't disagree with anything you posted I don't think
I think the Aussies that played against Lathwell (or at least one of them, maybe Hughes?) said that he showed 'the footwork of a drunken elephant'?
I don't think MT's elephant has a drink problem but he is probably reluctant to race around the savannah most days.
I don't understand the point about KP...are you saying he's been picked too much / too often?
I think Rodders' point, SP, (it's certainly not mine! ), is that if you're THAT good, it doesn't really matter whether your "face fits" or not.
), is that if you're THAT good, it doesn't really matter whether your "face fits" or not.
No FE I didn't mean to imply that although thinking about it there may be some truth in it.
I meant more that unless you are supremely talented - in the IB or VR mode - then you may need other qualities to be picked on a regular basis ( reading that I suppose you are right in your comment but I didn't start out from there ) !
I meant more that unless you are supremely talented - in the IB or VR mode - then you may need other qualities to be picked on a regular basis ( reading that I suppose you are right in your comment but I didn't start out from there ) !
I thought you meant that selectors won't pick a guy whose face does not fit UNLESS they are supremely talented.
Sorry rodders: just realised that my reference to you in my last post should have been to edinburgbil!
I think his/her point was that KP proves that if you're good enough you can have a successful England career even if your face doesn't necessarily fit.
I think his/her point was that KP proves that if you're good enough you can have a successful England career even if your face doesn't necessarily fit.
Yes, i meant that his face doesn't fit and he's upset some of the other players and management, and had disciplinary issues and doesn't seem (to me) to be a team man, but has been accommodated despite this. For cricketing reasons he is a no brainer particularly because he is feared by our nearest competing teams.
Or its because his face fits so well that they will accept anything from him that they would send other players on their way for and never recall!!
His position does seem to be a real one off.
His position does seem to be a real one off.
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