Somerset
Up to the roof of the World! Durham CC1
By Grockle et al
April 20 2014
Chester le Street is the venue for our second April four dayer after a semi-satisfying draw against Yorkshire to open our home stint of 2014. Batting clicked but the absence of Pete Trego and Jamie Overton left questions about our ability to take 20 wickets in a CC1 game. Both are suggested to play against Durham.
v Durham CC1 @ Chester le Street Monday 20 April 2014
The match is BBC Live Event 12 for TuneIn users
14 Somerset players have made the trip in the new 'Somerset superbus' to the far North of England. Marcus will choose from;
Trescothick, Hildreth, Compton, Davey, Dockrell, Gregory, Kieswetter, Jones, Meschede, Myburgh, Overton J, Petersen, Thomas, Trego
With fitness tests on Alfonso and possibly Overton and/or Trego, the rest of the side tends to pick itself. Craig Overton is missing from the squad with a slight niggle so someone must replace him.
One would expect that as the two players who spent the last round playing against Devon are travelling they will probably play but if 2 of them are not yet right, Josh Davey has been included in his new county's rosta after signing a summer contract. At this time of the year one would expect George Dockrell to join him on the bench should everything go to plan. The question then is; which batsman will sit this one out? If Pete comes in, will he come in at 7? In which case who from the Yorkshire side will be left out. Lewis Gregory is probably the option.
So Trescothick, Hildreth, Compton, Jones, Myburgh, Petersen, Kieswetter, Trego, Meschede, Overton J, Thomas would probably be the first choice side with Myburgh keeping his place after his top score of 91 in the last round. We will know more at 11 this morning.
It is good to see that the county go for the youth option. I'm not sure whether Alfonso is fully fit but he is left out and both Jamie Overton and Lewis are included in the side. We are now looking to our younger pace men to get us up there and then keep us there. It is a big test in this match. We won th toss and elected to field.
Day 1 did not start well with a considerable number of no balls giving the home side far too much early leeway and by the time Somerset had a handle on things they were chasing the Durham first innings. Jamie Overton was a particular culprit though Craig Meschede also uncharacteristically sent down a few. 308 at the end of the innings was an overpar score kept in check mostly by the efforts of Lewis Gregory and Pete Trego.
We survived a difficult 6 overs at the end of the day and looked forward to a solid Day 2 with the bat. Not to be though unfortunately. The "Somerset early innings disease" set in and despite 48 from the aforesaid Trego we were dismissed in less than 50 overs for 185. How many times have we been here in an early season game? This from a line-up that has Mesch coming in at 10!!!
Then the metaphorical sun came out and the bowlers got their act together!! Tight, aggressive and dangerous. Durham showed their batting chinks and Pete in particular took full advantage of them. At the end of Day 2 we have the opposition at 152 for 7 and Day 3 will dan with weather predicted and Somerset in the position of being able to redress the first innings failings if they can do 2 things that have eluded them in many many many early season CC1 games in the past. They need to bowwl out a tail cheaply and quickly and then bat solidly and consistently to knock of the, hopefully, below 300 winning requirement.
Stage is set, breath is bated....... we're all waiting boys.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 20/04/2014 03:46
Grockles.com
20/04/2014 03:46
20/04/2014 03:46
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:25:07:55:21 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:25:07:55:21 by Grockle.
With Craig Overton having gone for a scan on a side injury, we can assume he will not play.
Personally, I think I'd make just the one change, with Pete replacing him.
Forecast for Sunday features glowering skies and is unsettled throughout the match and so I think it very unlikely that we'll need more than 4 solid seam options in our side. Against Durham's bowling attack under those conditions then I think the longer our batting line-up the better.
I'm assuming Thomas will be fit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:19:09:58:20 by Grockle.
Personally, I think I'd make just the one change, with Pete replacing him.
Forecast for Sunday features glowering skies and is unsettled throughout the match and so I think it very unlikely that we'll need more than 4 solid seam options in our side. Against Durham's bowling attack under those conditions then I think the longer our batting line-up the better.
I'm assuming Thomas will be fit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:19:09:58:20 by Grockle.
I visited the dentist last week, and not because I assumed all my teeth were about to fall out.
If the weather on day 1 is decent there might be a higher attendance than usual-every member has been given 5 free tickets for Sunday.
Just thought I'd mention it here because obviously it will impact on parking spaces etc.
Mark Wood is still a week or so away from a first team return & Sangakkara definitely won't be here in time to make his debut so it should be the same X1 that played v Northants:
Stoneman
Jennings
Borthwick
Richardson
Mustard
Collingwood
Breese
Arshad
Harrison
Onions
Rushworth
The pitch for the game against Durham University was unusually good for batting.
Just thought I'd mention it here because obviously it will impact on parking spaces etc.
Mark Wood is still a week or so away from a first team return & Sangakkara definitely won't be here in time to make his debut so it should be the same X1 that played v Northants:
Stoneman
Jennings
Borthwick
Richardson
Mustard
Collingwood
Breese
Arshad
Harrison
Onions
Rushworth
The pitch for the game against Durham University was unusually good for batting.
Quite poor that, at 5:38pm the day before the game there is still absolutely nothing, team news wise, on the official site.
I know we're not picking from a squad of 234 players and that there may not be any surprises, but it would still be nice to know which players have been selected to go to CLS.
I know we're not picking from a squad of 234 players and that there may not be any surprises, but it would still be nice to know which players have been selected to go to CLS.
With several players awaiting final fitness tests Somerset will not name their final team until just before the start and will choose from the following squad, which includes the fit again Jamie Overton and Peter Trego and new signing Josh Davey- Marcus Trescothick (capt) James Hildreth (vice capt), Nick Compton, Josh Davey, George Dockrell, Lewis Gregory, Craig Kieswetter, Chris Jones, Craig Meschede, Johann Myburgh, Jamie Overton, Alviro Petersen, Alfonso Thomas and Pete Trego,
Thanks, Roger, has that just been added?
I wonder who will be having fitness tests? Presumably if Jamie Overton and Pete are listed as "fit again," then it won't be them?
I'd guess Alf is an obvious candidate. But "several players," obviously implies other problems unless it is Jamie and Pete that they are talking about.
I suppose Davey's selection implies that it is seamers that are in doubt as well. I wonder if George is there because we are genuinely considering picking a spinner at CLS or if it's more in case none of the "fitness test," players make it such that we have to play a spinner due to having run out of seamers? (Gregory, Meschede and Davey would be the only seamers under that scenario).
I wonder who will be having fitness tests? Presumably if Jamie Overton and Pete are listed as "fit again," then it won't be them?
I'd guess Alf is an obvious candidate. But "several players," obviously implies other problems unless it is Jamie and Pete that they are talking about.
I suppose Davey's selection implies that it is seamers that are in doubt as well. I wonder if George is there because we are genuinely considering picking a spinner at CLS or if it's more in case none of the "fitness test," players make it such that we have to play a spinner due to having run out of seamers? (Gregory, Meschede and Davey would be the only seamers under that scenario).
Don't forget Craig Overton hurt his side (rib) during the Yorkshire match it could be him for one.
Edit - just noticed Craig Overton is not in the list of names.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:19:18:33:19 by Mike TA1.
Edit - just noticed Craig Overton is not in the list of names.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:19:18:33:19 by Mike TA1.
Personally, I suspect Pete will be good to go. But if there are any doubts over Jamie/Alf, we might end up with Pete, Lewis, Craig M and Davey.
I think CLS is usually one of those grounds where a largely medium pace attack is not the end of the world.
I think CLS is usually one of those grounds where a largely medium pace attack is not the end of the world.
I heard that Alfonso is having a fitness test in he morning.
I'd play Jamie for Craig and Tregs for Alfonso, even if he passes the fitness test.
Even at CLS still a bit bothered by no frontline spinner though.
I'd play Jamie for Craig and Tregs for Alfonso, even if he passes the fitness test.
Even at CLS still a bit bothered by no frontline spinner though.
I think I agree with Bagpuss, but CLS will probably be very seam friendly and, dare I say it, not a bad place to bowl first tomorrow.
Quote:Last year Durham either elected to bat first or were asked to in every game apart from the last one when Notts chose to bat and were bowled out for under 100. On every occasion though Durham led on first innings.geordie moonraker
I think I agree with Bagpuss, but CLS will probably be very seam friendly and, dare I say it, not a bad place to bowl first tomorrow.
The odd thing is ( if I remember rightly) the opposition always scored more runs in the second innings than the first and conditions for batting seemingly improved as the game progressed.
I'd also agree with Bagpuss but I think we may see Lewis sitting this one out if everyone is fit as it is too early to NOT go with the experienced guys if they are up to it
I should like it to be known that my descent to the "roof of the world" tomorrow to watch the match has nothing to do with a religious episode celebrated at this time of year. I'm really just human like most of you,
I shall be there Bagpuss, hopefully with Mrs GM if she is well enough, for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, but today is a working day and I shall have to snatch updates as and when , but the odd prayer will ascend.
Lewis has to start for me. Much more important player than jones IMO so id leave out jones and go with j Overton and tregs in place if him and cove. Id try and find a place for Dockrell too if alf is out!
Don't leave Jones out. He is fast improving as an opener and we need one post Arul particularly eventually as we shall need another one.
It looks like the team selection could be a problem if all is fit, I don't envy the selection panel at times like these.
It is better to have a problem having too many players available than not enough.
It is better to have a problem having too many players available than not enough.
I do not want Gregory left out. Not really expecting it either.
I think it would be perverse to leave Jones out after he held things together somewhat vs Yorkshire.
I would only pick one of Alf or Jamie Overton partly because I think that would be prudent after injury trouble, partly because I want the longest batting line-up possible. And I would also say that unless the clouds are exceptionally low, I would have no problem with Banger opting to bat AND that if, having done so, we can get 200 I'd be pleased with that.
GM - I think that, at a CLS ground where Durham conceded one batting point in the whole of last season you may have to suspend the usage of your 'general guide to where you want to be having chosen to bat first/insert'??
Tres
Jones
NC
AP
Hildreth
CK
Myburgh
Pete
Gregory
Mesch
Alf or J Overton (I'd probably go with Alf).
And I hope the top four bat very patiently, such that the strokemakers from five down get to face a pretty old ball and can then put a bit of bat to said ball.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:09:19:07 by AGod.
I think it would be perverse to leave Jones out after he held things together somewhat vs Yorkshire.
I would only pick one of Alf or Jamie Overton partly because I think that would be prudent after injury trouble, partly because I want the longest batting line-up possible. And I would also say that unless the clouds are exceptionally low, I would have no problem with Banger opting to bat AND that if, having done so, we can get 200 I'd be pleased with that.
GM - I think that, at a CLS ground where Durham conceded one batting point in the whole of last season you may have to suspend the usage of your 'general guide to where you want to be having chosen to bat first/insert'??
Tres
Jones
NC
AP
Hildreth
CK
Myburgh
Pete
Gregory
Mesch
Alf or J Overton (I'd probably go with Alf).
And I hope the top four bat very patiently, such that the strokemakers from five down get to face a pretty old ball and can then put a bit of bat to said ball.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:09:19:07 by AGod.
Overton plays instead of Alf. Team is otherwise as per the above.
Tres has elected to field first.
Unless the track is damp or weather not as forecast then it may not have been an easy call because the forecast currently suggests that tomorrow morning will be much more heavily overcast than today's weather is supposed to be.
Perhaps GM will chime in to tell us what the weather is really like at CLS at the mo...
Tres has elected to field first.
Unless the track is damp or weather not as forecast then it may not have been an easy call because the forecast currently suggests that tomorrow morning will be much more heavily overcast than today's weather is supposed to be.
Perhaps GM will chime in to tell us what the weather is really like at CLS at the mo...
Ivo Tenant repeating this business about SCCC planning to deliberately produce shirt-fronts for all the home CC games this season. I do hope he does not have this from any kind of official source i.e. that it is just media nonsense.
I think it would be a stupid idea because our batsmen would then struggle like mad away from home if the ball is just straight up and down in every home game.
I think it would be a stupid idea because our batsmen would then struggle like mad away from home if the ball is just straight up and down in every home game.
Local BBC Durham forecast just given - they're not expecting much play on Wednesday at the moment but games at CLS often end inside three days anyway... A dry first two days seem to be forecast.
Good. I'm glad they have gone with youth rather than experience because you have to do that at some time. Assuming of course it isn't because Alf is too 'delicate' and couldn't be trusted to make the whole game.
I do feel that he isn't the force he once was but when I've felt that in the past they have picked him and he's won the flaming games for us almost on his own.
A new era has started? Is it down to Gregory, Meschede and the Overtons to get us in and keep us in the hunt? Pete, you'd better perform my lad or you may be fighting for your place as well!!
Brilliant if it comes off.
I do feel that he isn't the force he once was but when I've felt that in the past they have picked him and he's won the flaming games for us almost on his own.
A new era has started? Is it down to Gregory, Meschede and the Overtons to get us in and keep us in the hunt? Pete, you'd better perform my lad or you may be fighting for your place as well!!
Brilliant if it comes off.
Mark - the Durham fan - said Durham usually bat first at CLS when they win the toss. And that the oppo usually put Durham in. And that, last season, the oppo were usually behind on first dig. So I doubt it's that clear cut!!
Apparently, Trescothick is the most successful at-toss Captain of the past 20 years in the CC - 42 wins in 64 tosses.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:11:26:26 by AGod.
Apparently, Trescothick is the most successful at-toss Captain of the past 20 years in the CC - 42 wins in 64 tosses.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:11:26:26 by AGod.
I'd think just one more over for Overton to try and find his rhythm vis-a-vis no-balls and, if not, a change to one of the steadier medium pacers?
These games are normally low scoring so certainly cannot afford a plethora of no-balls. So if he can't get rhythm from this end maybe give him a go at the other one a little bit later?
These games are normally low scoring so certainly cannot afford a plethora of no-balls. So if he can't get rhythm from this end maybe give him a go at the other one a little bit later?
Excellent second breakthrough. And the fact that the runs are being stemmed a little is a bonus.
Ivo Tenant seems to be trying to claim that this is likely to be another high-scoring game, to go with last week's.
It strikes me as somewhat unlikely but if it's true that the track is flattish then maybe Trescothick fielded for the same reason as last week - hoping that if there was going to be something in it at any point, it would be first up.
If this is actually the normal helpful seaming track then, short boundary on one side notwithstanding, one would think we've conceded rather too many runs in the circumstances.
It strikes me as somewhat unlikely but if it's true that the track is flattish then maybe Trescothick fielded for the same reason as last week - hoping that if there was going to be something in it at any point, it would be first up.
If this is actually the normal helpful seaming track then, short boundary on one side notwithstanding, one would think we've conceded rather too many runs in the circumstances.
I don't know what the weather us like 15 miles south but in north Newcastle it is fair, light breeze with a high cloud cover. Another wicket before lunch and it won't be too bad.
I thought they had been working on Jamie's no balling over the winter as his radar seemed to have been derailed by the ECB visits.
He has to sort this out.
He has to sort this out.
Unfortunately, Jamie Overton seemed to be expensive in almost all of the away CC games last season (did much better at Taunton, presumably because conditions became familiar).
I don't know whether Alf was fit but, if he was, he would probably have been a sounder and tighter choice, especially because bowlers of Jamie's type tend to need lots of bowling to find their rhythm and is pre-season was abbreviated.
Given that Durham conceded 200+ only once on this ground in first digs last season, we can only hope that Tenant is right about the nature of this particular track.
Personally, if we'd batted first (by choice or not) and had 120 or so for 2 on the board at lunchtime, then I think I'd be borderline delirious with that!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:12:49:40 by AGod.
I don't know whether Alf was fit but, if he was, he would probably have been a sounder and tighter choice, especially because bowlers of Jamie's type tend to need lots of bowling to find their rhythm and is pre-season was abbreviated.
Given that Durham conceded 200+ only once on this ground in first digs last season, we can only hope that Tenant is right about the nature of this particular track.
Personally, if we'd batted first (by choice or not) and had 120 or so for 2 on the board at lunchtime, then I think I'd be borderline delirious with that!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:12:49:40 by AGod.
Let's hope that wicket is the shot in the arm Jamie needs to settle into the season.
120ish for three is a reasonable first session.
120ish for three is a reasonable first session.
Right, a wicket at the end.
"On paper," Durham have a longish tail to come, as well (although I saw them make plenty of runs on grass at Wantage Road on Monday).
It really sounded like a poor team bowling session, at best, so we've maybe slightly got out of jail to have actually taken three wickets.
Need to be far, far more disciplined and tighter after lunch, I would think.
Re: toss decision, you can't really win if bowlers are going to give away more than 20 in no-balls in a single session. Meschede's no-balls surprised me as he and Gregory have had plenty of pre-season bowling (the only SCCC seamers that have had).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:12:58:42 by AGod.
"On paper," Durham have a longish tail to come, as well (although I saw them make plenty of runs on grass at Wantage Road on Monday).
It really sounded like a poor team bowling session, at best, so we've maybe slightly got out of jail to have actually taken three wickets.
Need to be far, far more disciplined and tighter after lunch, I would think.
Re: toss decision, you can't really win if bowlers are going to give away more than 20 in no-balls in a single session. Meschede's no-balls surprised me as he and Gregory have had plenty of pre-season bowling (the only SCCC seamers that have had).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:20:12:58:42 by AGod.
The Rules.
Your opinion please.
During this morning play the commentators said several time about how short the boundary is on one side. They also said the minimum boundary is sixty yards (I have always said 50 yards) so have I got it wrong?
How do you interpret the ECB rules for 2014 below.
19 Law 19 – Boundaries
19.1 Law 19.1 – The boundary and the field of play
19.1.1 In addition to Law 19.1(a) the Ground Authority shall aim
to provide the largest playing area, subject to no
boundary exceeding a distance of 90 yards from the
centre of the pitch.
In any event, the distance from one square boundary
to the other square boundary shall not be less than 120
yards and neither square boundary shall be shorter
than 50 yards. The straight boundary at both ends of the
pitch shall be a minimum of 60yards. Distances shall be
measured from the centre of the pitch to be used.
A gap of 3 yards between the boundary and any
perimeter fencing (or other solid object) is
recommended. If this results in a boundary shorter than
the minimum being required, then ECB approval must
be sought for such a boundary to be used.
Your opinion please.
During this morning play the commentators said several time about how short the boundary is on one side. They also said the minimum boundary is sixty yards (I have always said 50 yards) so have I got it wrong?
How do you interpret the ECB rules for 2014 below.
19 Law 19 – Boundaries
19.1 Law 19.1 – The boundary and the field of play
19.1.1 In addition to Law 19.1(a) the Ground Authority shall aim
to provide the largest playing area, subject to no
boundary exceeding a distance of 90 yards from the
centre of the pitch.
In any event, the distance from one square boundary
to the other square boundary shall not be less than 120
yards and neither square boundary shall be shorter
than 50 yards. The straight boundary at both ends of the
pitch shall be a minimum of 60yards. Distances shall be
measured from the centre of the pitch to be used.
A gap of 3 yards between the boundary and any
perimeter fencing (or other solid object) is
recommended. If this results in a boundary shorter than
the minimum being required, then ECB approval must
be sought for such a boundary to be used.
Seems to be tighter from Pete after lunch but short of anyone to bottle up the other end, by the sounds of it.
I trust my hero does not have an heroic day, though I wish him very well for his final season.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
With Collingwood in and (whisper the name!!!) Breese next, we've still got some work to do to get into this reportedly long tail!!
Indeed we have, FE. And as I say, said tail scored plenty at Northampton anyway. But I'd like to see them sooner than later!!
And, although he wasn't in for that long, young Usman Arshad actually played the best shots of the day on Monday. He looks a promising young all-rounder.
LoL - it already sounds as though your hero might play the sort of innings (scrappy but without getting out) that may have earned him that epithet.....
Sounds like yet another bowling injury .. Meschede with some sort of back/side complaint, by the sounds.
Maybe Myburgh is a bit more useful with the ball than he looks?
Useful breakthrough, especially with Meschede going off injured.
Useful breakthrough, especially with Meschede going off injured.
So better to judge him after more than one outing and on results rather than how he looks.
Who'd have thought it
Who'd have thought it
Before you get too far on your high horse yet again, it wasn't me who said anything about his bowling.
Yet again i didn't say it was you. As others have said a few times before, it's not all about you.
Back to the game. We seem to be losing a little control again. Vice captain is even bowling
Back to the game. We seem to be losing a little control again. Vice captain is even bowling
Pete's got an eighth.
I have to say that it's reached the point in the day where I do not really want Durham to be bowled out now until 2 overs from the close, as we don't want a nasty little mini-session vs Mr Onions, I would say.
I strongly suspect that Durham have got rather too many, especially with us a bowler down for the 2nd game in a row (and Meschede might not be able to bat at full efficacy either).
I think it will need a very, very good batting effort tomorrow.
I have to say that it's reached the point in the day where I do not really want Durham to be bowled out now until 2 overs from the close, as we don't want a nasty little mini-session vs Mr Onions, I would say.
I strongly suspect that Durham have got rather too many, especially with us a bowler down for the 2nd game in a row (and Meschede might not be able to bat at full efficacy either).
I think it will need a very, very good batting effort tomorrow.
I Anthony Gibson losing it - or am I?
This afternoon I have heard him say
a) that Taunton is the Home of England's Women Cricketers - which I thought it no longer is.
b) that Hildreth has taken 5 FC wickets and that he had never seen him bowl before - yet I I am fairly certain he was commentating last week when Hildreth came on to bowl and took his 6th wicket.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
This afternoon I have heard him say
a) that Taunton is the Home of England's Women Cricketers - which I thought it no longer is.
b) that Hildreth has taken 5 FC wickets and that he had never seen him bowl before - yet I I am fairly certain he was commentating last week when Hildreth came on to bowl and took his 6th wicket.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Well done, in the end, to Pete and Lewis.
But... 6 overs to face vs Bunny ...........eeeekk
Squeaky bum time.
But... 6 overs to face vs Bunny ...........eeeekk
Squeaky bum time.
I think it's me that lost it, LoL, I've been calling him Ivo Tenant all afternoon....
It as interesting that he thought Marcus was much more 'hands on' as a captain today. He was wondering whether this was simply because the bowling attack was young and inexperienced or whether this was a planned change in authority.
I found myself hoping it was the latter
I found myself hoping it was the latter
But you are surely right, LoL, that Taunton is not the home of England Women's cricket, no matter who said it is!
Looking back at last year's scores, most of Durham's first innings knocks at CLS lasted about the same amount of time as today's. However, they usually produced fewer runs. But the no-balls will have been a big reason that we conceded more than most do in their 80 odd overs of bowling first at CLS.
Phew.
Did not sound easy and survived a tough chance but got through.
Hopefully getting through might be a further sign of a bit more resilience with the bat this season - suspect we'd have lost a couple of wickets in a 6 over mini-session like that last season!!
Did not sound easy and survived a tough chance but got through.
Hopefully getting through might be a further sign of a bit more resilience with the bat this season - suspect we'd have lost a couple of wickets in a 6 over mini-session like that last season!!
Better than decent, I'd say: from a "CricInfo only" perspective, admittedly.
Aside from the no ball issues, and the leaky run rate early on, it would appear to have been a highly satisfactory day's work; with the best six overs probably being the last six!
On to tomorrow!
Aside from the no ball issues, and the leaky run rate early on, it would appear to have been a highly satisfactory day's work; with the best six overs probably being the last six!
On to tomorrow!
We have more of a 'Popgun' than a 12 bore attack, so I imagine that we should "take a lot of positives" from today's play.
No comment from anybody at the club on today's play as yet.
George Dobell certainly seems to think that Durham had the better of the day.
But if we can bat very well tomorrow then that may not matter.
George Dobell certainly seems to think that Durham had the better of the day.
But if we can bat very well tomorrow then that may not matter.
Well you certainly don't seem to want to look for positives CP. Not a happy start to the season for you it seems.
The wrong captain, a 'popgun' of an attack - can things get any worse some 5 days play in I wonder? You'll probably see darker days ahead of course
The wrong captain, a 'popgun' of an attack - can things get any worse some 5 days play in I wonder? You'll probably see darker days ahead of course
After the close assistant and bowling coach Jason Kerr said: “We managed to keep chipping away and getting wickets throughout the day but we weren’t at our best and at times fell below the high standards we set ourselves. They managed to establish partnerships and we let them get a few more runs than we would have liked.
“This hasn’t been our best day but we have managed to take 10 wickets. We now need to get through that first hour or so in the morning, establish some partnerships through the day and hopefully go beyond them.
Jason added: “It is very cold up here with a very strong breeze so the conditions are very trying and the boys tried hard. However now it is our chance to bat and we have got the opportunity to go out and carry on from where we ended last week.”
“This hasn’t been our best day but we have managed to take 10 wickets. We now need to get through that first hour or so in the morning, establish some partnerships through the day and hopefully go beyond them.
Jason added: “It is very cold up here with a very strong breeze so the conditions are very trying and the boys tried hard. However now it is our chance to bat and we have got the opportunity to go out and carry on from where we ended last week.”
Seems a pretty straight assessment to me but then I'm not there seeing it in real time.
Depending on how much faith the club has in Davey or Burke, we might already be in the position of considering the loan market for seam bowling players/cover?
We know that Kirby, Dibble and C Overton are all injured.
We know that Meschede broke down today.
We know that Alf had some sort of back issue and he might have failed a fitness test for this one.
So numbers are looking thin and we've yet to show an inclination to pick a specialist spinner, so the club may end up exploring the loan avenue.
We know that Kirby, Dibble and C Overton are all injured.
We know that Meschede broke down today.
We know that Alf had some sort of back issue and he might have failed a fitness test for this one.
So numbers are looking thin and we've yet to show an inclination to pick a specialist spinner, so the club may end up exploring the loan avenue.
Can't see that!
We have just signed Davey, Burke and Stewart on summer contracts so surely we think they are good enough for the first team?
Every chance Dockrell or Leach will come into the team soon as Myburgh not a front line spinner and will help add some control/variety.
Dibble we are told is close to fitness, Alfie had a fitness test for this match so no reason to expect long term and Meschede & Cove we haven't been told are anything more than minor.
We have just signed Davey, Burke and Stewart on summer contracts so surely we think they are good enough for the first team?
Every chance Dockrell or Leach will come into the team soon as Myburgh not a front line spinner and will help add some control/variety.
Dibble we are told is close to fitness, Alfie had a fitness test for this match so no reason to expect long term and Meschede & Cove we haven't been told are anything more than minor.
I wonder if the 'very strong breeze,' may have played a part in all the no-balling? It could possibly affect a bowler's balance and run-up etc?
Dibble is always 'close to fitness,' sadly.
Side strains tend to be anything from 2 to 6 weeks, depending on severity. C Overton had symptoms of a side strain. The commentators said Meschede went off holding his side.
I'd like to think a specialist spinner would come into the reckoning but will DN want to pick one early season?
To add to the injuries, Jamie Overton is obviously not close to being in form.
Having been picked in this squad, Davey is presumably next in line.
Side strains tend to be anything from 2 to 6 weeks, depending on severity. C Overton had symptoms of a side strain. The commentators said Meschede went off holding his side.
I'd like to think a specialist spinner would come into the reckoning but will DN want to pick one early season?
To add to the injuries, Jamie Overton is obviously not close to being in form.
Having been picked in this squad, Davey is presumably next in line.
An interesting days play. Last season a score of 300 batting first would have been exceptional but I'm not sure if this pitch is as bowler friendly as the typical Riverside surfaces.
Tough to judge the wicket at this stage because the bowling was very loose in the morning & there were also a few poor strokes.
However when the bowling improved there did seem to be some assistance in the wicket and batting did not look straightforward. My hunch is Durham's score is overpar but not by much.
Tough to judge the wicket at this stage because the bowling was very loose in the morning & there were also a few poor strokes.
However when the bowling improved there did seem to be some assistance in the wicket and batting did not look straightforward. My hunch is Durham's score is overpar but not by much.
Thanks for that, Mark.
Hopefully an 'on paper,' longish batting line-up can make up for probably conceding too many, from our point of view.
Hopefully an 'on paper,' longish batting line-up can make up for probably conceding too many, from our point of view.
Latest Met Office forecast for CLS shows rain all day Tuesday and part of Wednesday - certain draw if forecast is right. Looks like a run chase to maximise batting points will be tomorrow's order of the day.
Quote:The batting looks formidable so definitely no reason why Somerset can't prosper tomorrow. When partnerships started to develop last year Stokes was often the man who broke them, obviously we haven't got that option in this match.AGod
Thanks for that, Mark.
Hopefully an 'on paper,' longish batting line-up can make up for probably conceding too many, from our point of view.
Stats can sometimes overly complicate this game but one that may be relevant here & possibly influenced the decision at the toss is that the 4th innings scores were always ( with the exception of the last match when Durham batted 2nd for the only time and just needed about 60 to win in the last innings) higher than the 2nd innings scores so conditions for a run chase should be good. Then again the team batting last almost always lost...suppose that just shows how stats can complicate things! Perhaps the most important thing was that Durham always were in front after the second innings was completed.
Lewis Gregory is closer to England than Jamie I'll bounce you out Overton. I was not impressed by him at all. Rushworth was getting balls off a length to go above the wkt keepers head. Overtons bouncers were on the way down when it got to kiesy. Well bowled Lewis. I for one was glad you were playing!!
Durham fans think they are well over par. Over to our batters now
Durham fans think they are well over par. Over to our batters now
Judging by the disagreements over who had the better day, I reckon it must have been pretty even !
Good to see that we can take ten wickets in a day anyway.
Only thing that irks me is the number of no-balls bowled. With all the money & resources employed these days, in trying to ensure optimum performance, is it too much to ask that we deliver the ball legally ?
Grizzzly
Good to see that we can take ten wickets in a day anyway.
Only thing that irks me is the number of no-balls bowled. With all the money & resources employed these days, in trying to ensure optimum performance, is it too much to ask that we deliver the ball legally ?
Grizzzly
Most were glad he was playing Ron and it was certainly the right decision given his contribution today.
It doesn't look like the winter has given us enough time to sort out Jamie's issues. He was a little too fond of the short ball and had trouble running in at the end of last season. Then again I suppose we've been dealing with the injury so consistent time on the pitch to get a handle on these things might have been difficult.
Pace isn't everything as he seems to be realising.
It doesn't look like the winter has given us enough time to sort out Jamie's issues. He was a little too fond of the short ball and had trouble running in at the end of last season. Then again I suppose we've been dealing with the injury so consistent time on the pitch to get a handle on these things might have been difficult.
Pace isn't everything as he seems to be realising.
I'm not sure we should look for large bolstering of our squad strength from the summer signings. From what I've heard, Davey may have something interesting but James Burke has been floating around the club for some seasons now and has yet to move to another level. Callum Stewart I know very little about but I can't help but think,as the season starts to move, that we've missed out on not signing another bowler given the injury records of some of our younger players even at this early stage of their careers.
Given that and the age of the our experienced guys makes me think the 'popgun' reference of CP was not that far from the case.
But they came back well and the promise is there is not the personnel.
Given that and the age of the our experienced guys makes me think the 'popgun' reference of CP was not that far from the case.
But they came back well and the promise is there is not the personnel.
Hate to say it grockle that Overton was almost a bit of a joke yesterday. No balls bouncers every over to tailenders and generally not threatening at all. Jason kerr spent 2 hours in the nets behind the stand. If he's bowling coach then I'd rather he was concentrating on young Jamie. Kerr has his work cut out. The Durham guys I spoke to are pretty dismissive of our attack they seem to think we just want to bat our way out of trouble. I reminded them of last season. What has jumped up at me is that nosworthy hasn't really changed much at all and we should have signed a bowler in the winter. Onions was dangerous last night and he was more dangerous in those 3 overs than we were all innings except for Lewis's excellent mid afternoon spell which was really good. This will be a tough day today tres has already been put down but the wicket isn't a minefield although it seemed to me to be keeping a but low at times!!
That first ball to Marcus looked close, and then dropped lets hope that's all the chances he gives.
A few things to mention:
- G Dobell says that 6/8 first innings totals there last year were between 237 and 267, that only once did a side exceed that, and that 308 is the second highest first innings score there for two years. In general, for our domestic FC class, is that record good for the game? Is that what we'd want at Taunton? My opinion is that I'd rather see innings of 280-350 and fourth-innings run-chases in which each side had a chance - than 450 v 500 and a dull draw on a regular basis - but aren't Durham's home scores just a little too uniform and lower than is good?
- I'm not the "Paul_Somerset" who has put the first (and in my opinion rather harsh) comment under GD's article on Cricinfo!
- Mark indicates that, while 300 is above par, this pitch doesn't look as hard to score on as some; that should give us hope.
- You get two runs for a no-ball, so we bowled 15 in the 88-over innings. CraigM 5 in 16 overs, Trego 2 in 21 (neither especially bad), while Jamie bowled 8 in 16 overs. Even the last-named is not the heinous crime it seems to be portrayed as - not good, I'll admit, but for a young pace bowler with recent injury issues and not a lot of bowling under his belt, I don't think it's worthy of the stick he's getting.
Hoping for a good day today...
- G Dobell says that 6/8 first innings totals there last year were between 237 and 267, that only once did a side exceed that, and that 308 is the second highest first innings score there for two years. In general, for our domestic FC class, is that record good for the game? Is that what we'd want at Taunton? My opinion is that I'd rather see innings of 280-350 and fourth-innings run-chases in which each side had a chance - than 450 v 500 and a dull draw on a regular basis - but aren't Durham's home scores just a little too uniform and lower than is good?
- I'm not the "Paul_Somerset" who has put the first (and in my opinion rather harsh) comment under GD's article on Cricinfo!
- Mark indicates that, while 300 is above par, this pitch doesn't look as hard to score on as some; that should give us hope.
- You get two runs for a no-ball, so we bowled 15 in the 88-over innings. CraigM 5 in 16 overs, Trego 2 in 21 (neither especially bad), while Jamie bowled 8 in 16 overs. Even the last-named is not the heinous crime it seems to be portrayed as - not good, I'll admit, but for a young pace bowler with recent injury issues and not a lot of bowling under his belt, I don't think it's worthy of the stick he's getting.
Hoping for a good day today...
Let's face it, Onions was/is always likely to be more dangerous than anyone we have on the park.
But it also sounded as though Rushworth was getting much more out of it in the brief proceedings last night - and I'm not sure his form was the greatest coming in as he'd posed no threat at Northampton.
I'm afraid that Anthony Gibson said that Jamie Overton is 'lacking a bit up top,' by which he meant prone to getting hugely carried away with the short stuff and not realising that the majority of balls that take wickets in first-class cricket are the ones that are pitched up.
Anyway, we could really do with a break in our first-team schedule to try and get some bowlers fit and, in the case of others, to get them more reps at second team or even practice match level to get them into rhythm. Injury problems amongst seamers at the moment seem at least as bad as two years ago. And they are arguably worse as we have people going down hurt during games. Instead of a break, we go to Hove. Let's hope for warmer weather down there as I'm sure the temperature at CLS (combined with cold wind) is conducive to the sort of muscle strain that Craig M suffered.
But before any of that let's hope for more evidence of greater batting resilience in what are likely to be much tougher batting conditions than at Taunton last week.
But it also sounded as though Rushworth was getting much more out of it in the brief proceedings last night - and I'm not sure his form was the greatest coming in as he'd posed no threat at Northampton.
I'm afraid that Anthony Gibson said that Jamie Overton is 'lacking a bit up top,' by which he meant prone to getting hugely carried away with the short stuff and not realising that the majority of balls that take wickets in first-class cricket are the ones that are pitched up.
Anyway, we could really do with a break in our first-team schedule to try and get some bowlers fit and, in the case of others, to get them more reps at second team or even practice match level to get them into rhythm. Injury problems amongst seamers at the moment seem at least as bad as two years ago. And they are arguably worse as we have people going down hurt during games. Instead of a break, we go to Hove. Let's hope for warmer weather down there as I'm sure the temperature at CLS (combined with cold wind) is conducive to the sort of muscle strain that Craig M suffered.
But before any of that let's hope for more evidence of greater batting resilience in what are likely to be much tougher batting conditions than at Taunton last week.
Well if it is a season too far for both Steve and Alf then we are in trouble. I have no doubt that if you put them on the pitch you'll get all they have. The question is; how much have they got?
Steve has been fighting injury for half a season and as many of us know, niggles in your late 30's don't heal as quickly as those in your early 20's. It looks like he is out for the medium term anyway with his present crock.
Alf? My jury is out on what he has now. I think he has moved into the Charl Willoughby part of his career and will produce the odd great spell. I hope I'm wrong because I think he is awesome when he gets it right. The problem is that he's a drain if he gets it wrong.
Pete? After that truly heroic bowling season in 2012 he seems to have gone back to batting allrounder and may find it hard to keep his place IF the other bowlers get it right
Craig M? Seems to be going from strength to strength with the ball and is starting to look like our new bowling all rounder. But can we keep him fit and is the pressure of holding it all together going to be too much for him?
Lewis? Is moving along a little slower but making bowling progress. His 4 wickets yesterday were vital. I'm hoping for more with the bat from him and we need to focus on his allround ability rather than making him a fundamental part of our new ball attack.
Craig O? The more fragile and more allround of the twins. It worries me how much time he is not fit but he is well worth persevering with, he may turn into a batsman totally if things keep going the way they are.
Jamie O? Needs to get this rawness under control and is far too raw to be the mainstay of our opening attack at the moment.
Adam? Is once agian the no show in this attack. WHEN will he be a consistent factor? Will he ever get to that point? As someone said, he seems close to ready so often but even if they get him on the park he only lasts a few games before he is once more on the treatment table.
The spinners I have more faith in but they will not be our frontline for much of a season if ever.
The occasionals can help a bit but not be major considerations.
So we presently have 3 aging pace men who there is about 50% confidence in
3 promising new boys as first string bowlers but who we can't keep on the park due to niggles
1 semi-experienced pace man who is semi permanently injured
1 raw explosive bowler we are having trouble keeping control of
3 spinners
2 occasionals one of whom is presently offering a limited 'Arul' kind of role and one who bowls about 5 overs a year.
I can understand why Durham look at us and think we are looking to bat ourselves out of trouble.
Steve has been fighting injury for half a season and as many of us know, niggles in your late 30's don't heal as quickly as those in your early 20's. It looks like he is out for the medium term anyway with his present crock.
Alf? My jury is out on what he has now. I think he has moved into the Charl Willoughby part of his career and will produce the odd great spell. I hope I'm wrong because I think he is awesome when he gets it right. The problem is that he's a drain if he gets it wrong.
Pete? After that truly heroic bowling season in 2012 he seems to have gone back to batting allrounder and may find it hard to keep his place IF the other bowlers get it right
Craig M? Seems to be going from strength to strength with the ball and is starting to look like our new bowling all rounder. But can we keep him fit and is the pressure of holding it all together going to be too much for him?
Lewis? Is moving along a little slower but making bowling progress. His 4 wickets yesterday were vital. I'm hoping for more with the bat from him and we need to focus on his allround ability rather than making him a fundamental part of our new ball attack.
Craig O? The more fragile and more allround of the twins. It worries me how much time he is not fit but he is well worth persevering with, he may turn into a batsman totally if things keep going the way they are.
Jamie O? Needs to get this rawness under control and is far too raw to be the mainstay of our opening attack at the moment.
Adam? Is once agian the no show in this attack. WHEN will he be a consistent factor? Will he ever get to that point? As someone said, he seems close to ready so often but even if they get him on the park he only lasts a few games before he is once more on the treatment table.
The spinners I have more faith in but they will not be our frontline for much of a season if ever.
The occasionals can help a bit but not be major considerations.
So we presently have 3 aging pace men who there is about 50% confidence in
3 promising new boys as first string bowlers but who we can't keep on the park due to niggles
1 semi-experienced pace man who is semi permanently injured
1 raw explosive bowler we are having trouble keeping control of
3 spinners
2 occasionals one of whom is presently offering a limited 'Arul' kind of role and one who bowls about 5 overs a year.
I can understand why Durham look at us and think we are looking to bat ourselves out of trouble.
SP - re number of no-balls.
There were 3 other matches that saw significant action yesterday.
Scores on the doors: Somerset 15 no-balls.
Other 3 matches combined: 7 no-balls
This does suggest the number was excessive. I do think lack of pre-season work is the main cause for both Overton and Trego. No idea why Meschede bowled 5 no-balls.
There were 3 other matches that saw significant action yesterday.
Scores on the doors: Somerset 15 no-balls.
Other 3 matches combined: 7 no-balls
This does suggest the number was excessive. I do think lack of pre-season work is the main cause for both Overton and Trego. No idea why Meschede bowled 5 no-balls.
The impression I have always got from Chester-Le-Street is that the lowish scores are more to do with local atmospheric conditions, rather than any deliberate attempt by the groundsman. Generally the ball seams around a lot (well it would with Onions), but I don't think they have got points deducted for a poor pitch in recent years.
Trying to bounce people out is surely not the way to go at CLS.
Trying to bounce people out is surely not the way to go at CLS.
Fair enough chunky, I wasn't trying to imply that it was deliberate by the groundsman or DCCC...no more than ours at Taunton deliberately aim for 450+.
SP : Re: first innings scores at CLS and being a bit low/uniform; In part, I suspect they simply reflect the fact that home side is much stronger in bowling than batting - it was Durham themselves that did the batting in almost all of those first innings (Notts had one of them and made about 80!).
Then, of course, there's the weather up there for the Groundsman to contend with.
Then, of course, there's the weather up there for the Groundsman to contend with.
Young Jamie really needs to come to the party second dig if mesch can't bowl. He made it easy for Durham and let them get away at times . If he gets it right he should be able to trouble them!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:21:10:00:46 by Ronniesabre.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:21:10:00:46 by Ronniesabre.
The problem is that a lot of people think the groundsman can produce pitch to order it is not so easy as that.
Many a man have tried to produce pitches differently thinking they can do better than somebody else and have failed.
Many a man have tried to produce pitches differently thinking they can do better than somebody else and have failed.
Mike - Marcus was asked (apparently) whether there'd been a deliberate tactic to prepare something flat vs Yorkshire and whether that was going to be the approach this season.
Apparently, his reply was "We can change the pitch as we need to," or something to that effect.
As you say, might not be so easy.
But I certainly hope that Anthony Gibson is wrong to say that there is some sort of deliberate plan afoot to produce very flat pitches for the whole season at Taunton. He seemed to be suggesting (rightly) that DN and DH have told the batsmen that they need to bat long rather than being champagne stroke-maker types... but he seems to have inferred from this that we'll have to produce flat pitches to enable this to happen.
My person view is that the weakness of the SCCC batting has involved failing to rein in stroke-making instincts in certain situations and on certain types of pitch....... Gibson's take implies that DN doesn't think our guys are really good enough to dig in on tricky pitches.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:21:10:35:01 by AGod.
Apparently, his reply was "We can change the pitch as we need to," or something to that effect.
As you say, might not be so easy.
But I certainly hope that Anthony Gibson is wrong to say that there is some sort of deliberate plan afoot to produce very flat pitches for the whole season at Taunton. He seemed to be suggesting (rightly) that DN and DH have told the batsmen that they need to bat long rather than being champagne stroke-maker types... but he seems to have inferred from this that we'll have to produce flat pitches to enable this to happen.
My person view is that the weakness of the SCCC batting has involved failing to rein in stroke-making instincts in certain situations and on certain types of pitch....... Gibson's take implies that DN doesn't think our guys are really good enough to dig in on tricky pitches.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:21:10:35:01 by AGod.
Presumably, Jamie O is not a complete loose cannon here? If it's lack of control, that's one thing, but if it's lack of nouse, then we ought to post a senior bowler at mid on or mid off to talk him through his spell and get the best out of him. OK, so in the end, it is up to him to work things out, but if he has the potential we think he has, we may need to invest time and effort into getting the best out of him, no?
In theory, we are not short of birdies in the seam bowling slots
The O'twins, Kirby, Alf, Trego, Lewis, Dibble, Davey, Meshede ought to be enough bodies to keep 4 fit bowlers on the pitch at all times?
Have we been a bit unlucky with injuries so far (3 during games so far)
Dave N and the coaches, plus the skip and senior bowlers ought to be in charge of getting JO, to progress. I guess any raw fast bowler is going to have bad days, but you only have to look at Mitchell Johnson and Harmie to see guys who have had poor times become devastating at their best.
In theory, we are not short of birdies in the seam bowling slots
The O'twins, Kirby, Alf, Trego, Lewis, Dibble, Davey, Meshede ought to be enough bodies to keep 4 fit bowlers on the pitch at all times?
Have we been a bit unlucky with injuries so far (3 during games so far)
Dave N and the coaches, plus the skip and senior bowlers ought to be in charge of getting JO, to progress. I guess any raw fast bowler is going to have bad days, but you only have to look at Mitchell Johnson and Harmie to see guys who have had poor times become devastating at their best.
Ron - if we bat properly and the forecast is right then, hopefully, the second Durham dig may not be massively important.
Current forecast implies that there will be between 2.5-3 days of total playing time in this match, with Tuesday a forecast washout and anything from about 50-100% of play looking probable on Wednesday.
So, if we could actually bat for an entire day today, then that might all but kill off the match.
I have to say that I think that IF we manage to bat all day today, then this is likely have been one of our better batting performances for some considerable time.
Current forecast implies that there will be between 2.5-3 days of total playing time in this match, with Tuesday a forecast washout and anything from about 50-100% of play looking probable on Wednesday.
So, if we could actually bat for an entire day today, then that might all but kill off the match.
I have to say that I think that IF we manage to bat all day today, then this is likely have been one of our better batting performances for some considerable time.
my opinion is that wasn't deliberate to produce a flat track, if it was why did we not choose to use the heavy roller for the match??
Exciting prospect that he is, as far as I can see, Jamie is believing a little too much of what he reads in the papers. First of all, lets establish a county career, by bowling spells that test the batsman's ability outside the off stump. Bouncers might well succeed occasionally, but overuse at county level is wasted energy and it really doesn't feel right when a 19 yr old is glaring, having words and standing hand on hips looking at his footmarks when he has bowled a no ball.Establish a reputation first and do the hard work. There is no divine right to the top and my advice to Jamie would be much as I have read on here previously. Target the stumps and just outside, with the occasional short ball...it really is not rocket science.
Lewis I believe, if he stays fit, will prosper as a bowler who has good control and slippery pace. Mesh is becoming the work horse and nibbles the ball around. The workhorse though, needs to remain fit and I believe Mesh has now suffered some kind of strain. What is the issue at Somerset and the fitness levels? I really think there needs to be an overhaul of how they train...far too many injuries for it to be coincidence. At present, Mesh, Overton C.Dibble, Kirby, Thomas all injured with Trego and Overton J just rehabilitated. This is not new...the same thing was happening last year.
Lewis I believe, if he stays fit, will prosper as a bowler who has good control and slippery pace. Mesh is becoming the work horse and nibbles the ball around. The workhorse though, needs to remain fit and I believe Mesh has now suffered some kind of strain. What is the issue at Somerset and the fitness levels? I really think there needs to be an overhaul of how they train...far too many injuries for it to be coincidence. At present, Mesh, Overton C.Dibble, Kirby, Thomas all injured with Trego and Overton J just rehabilitated. This is not new...the same thing was happening last year.
With respect, Gibson's take very probably implies only what Gibson thinks DN thinks.
And, MIke, I also do not believe it was a deliberate flat-track, either. I think the weather must have played a big part.
There was an article in which Tres said we hadn't returned to the "bad old days" of flat tracks.
4 days of perfect sunshine was the main problem.
4 days of perfect sunshine was the main problem.
I thought I was 'glass half empty' but having read Grockles piece this morning I'm wondering if there is even a glass.
Is this the shape we should in at the start of the season? Didn't the squad report for pre-season before Christmas?
Anybody ready to start discussing DN's achievements of the last year or so yet? Or would any such suggestion be jumped on as unfair for so early in the season, or so early in his tenure?
Come on all you fair minded people, reassure me it's all going to be fine....
Is this the shape we should in at the start of the season? Didn't the squad report for pre-season before Christmas?
Anybody ready to start discussing DN's achievements of the last year or so yet? Or would any such suggestion be jumped on as unfair for so early in the season, or so early in his tenure?
Come on all you fair minded people, reassure me it's all going to be fine....
Just in, how can you have any idea what Jamie O is thinking or believing? Maybe he's just not bowling very well, struggling with footholds or technique, and having a bad day...
SteveCav - last year, I was not at all happy with DN for the first 2 or 3 months as there was nothing positive happening at either first or second team level.
However, he did spend a lot of time with the seconds and they started to improve dramatically from mid-season onwards, then some of the players that were in the seconds got promoted to the first team and, towards the end of the season, performances at first-team level also improved.
So I accept I may have been harsh on DN in those first few months, although I still query the business of DN not personally taking the first team reins, to be honest.
However, he did spend a lot of time with the seconds and they started to improve dramatically from mid-season onwards, then some of the players that were in the seconds got promoted to the first team and, towards the end of the season, performances at first-team level also improved.
So I accept I may have been harsh on DN in those first few months, although I still query the business of DN not personally taking the first team reins, to be honest.
SP - I think it's obvious that Overton, J, has not had enough bowling in pre-season.
However, even when he's bowling relatively well, from what I've seen of him he is - at this young age - mainly a two lengths bowler - one who enjoys mixing the bouncer with the yorker.
I think what just in might be saying is that learning a little more patience may be beneficial going forward.
However, even when he's bowling relatively well, from what I've seen of him he is - at this young age - mainly a two lengths bowler - one who enjoys mixing the bouncer with the yorker.
I think what just in might be saying is that learning a little more patience may be beneficial going forward.
Bad back for Compton, should we assume? (he's had it on and off and a day in the field in real cold yesterday will probably not have helped?)
Definitely no Compton then as CK also in ahead of him.
First target - can we save the follow-on?
First target - can we save the follow-on?
I thought we were doing OK - then saw we'd lost 3 wickets while I was catching up on here! 
My point about just in's post was that he purported to know what JO was thinking or believing, and I wondered how he could possibly know this.
My point about just in's post was that he purported to know what JO was thinking or believing, and I wondered how he could possibly know this.
Can't wait until Onions has a central contract, and is doing strength and conditioning in April instead.
Shambles here guys. You just don't get the feeling we've got any stickability sad to say. Same as last years game and we appear to have learnt very little. Someone has to stand up and be counted here !!
SP....Read the post again....'as far as I can see' ie how he conducts himself on the field...the glaring, the words, the hand on hips. No I don't know what he is thinking, however, if he is picking up regular wickets with the occasional 5 for, that might be justified. In my opinion, it isn't and instead of the between ball antics, concentrate on how the next ball might cause the batsman a problem. I accept he is very young, raw, excitable and a great prospect. What I am making is an observation...one hopes the coaches might notice it too!
Oh dear. Looks like another relegation dogfight is on the cards already.
Well, so far, DN's lone summer signing looks like some sort of feather in his cap...
I had to go out - has anyone heard the actual detail of what's happened to NC? Bad back? Ill? Finger injury from the field yesterday?
I had to go out - has anyone heard the actual detail of what's happened to NC? Bad back? Ill? Finger injury from the field yesterday?
I'm surprised that LoL's hero did not bring back "Bunny," for a couple of quick overs before lunch.
Well, I suppose the positive take is that we've managed to bat for 34 overs so far.
Last season, the whole lot was over and done with (in our first dig) in 37 overs.......
Last season, the whole lot was over and done with (in our first dig) in 37 overs.......
Trego has played nicely so far hope he keeps going!! Big hour in the game coming up. Myburgh looks quite solid he wasn't happy at being given out . Compo is padded up !!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:21:13:08:02 by Ronniesabre.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:21:13:08:02 by Ronniesabre.
Calm down, we're up against a red hot seam attack, cut the boys some slack.
All you guys in the know, did Graham Onions upset the powers that be somewhere along the line?
I thought somebody might post "does it matter?" in response to that bit about Trego, FE. In which case my response was 'it may well have done to Pete,' which seemed to be the point Gibson was making - Pete making a point to DN.
Of course, I've no idea if Gibson is right about Trego having been omitted as opposed to simply not having been fit.
Of course, I've no idea if Gibson is right about Trego having been omitted as opposed to simply not having been fit.
Well, we've saved the follow-on, but with 2 guys injured, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get past 200 (and the first batting point).
Dammit.
Is there any truth behind my growing perception that CK is at his most vulnerable immediately after a wicket has fallen at the other end?
Is there any truth behind my growing perception that CK is at his most vulnerable immediately after a wicket has fallen at the other end?
To my knowledge Gibson is correct. PT had an injury to his left elbow that prevented him from batting but NOT bowling in all the pre season games! He was not put in the seconds to find his rhythm or any thing else for that matter. Any one who knows him will know he spent 4 months in the winter playing 4 day and 1 day cricket and followed that up with 2 weeks in South Africa with Somerset .
His injury had cleared by the time the Yorkshire game came up.
Lets not beat about the bush he was dropped! I don't care what the official is!
Any one who looks at his record over the last few years will see he is: With regard to fitness, probably the fittest player at Somerset and without doubt the most durable. In addition if one looks at the PCA rankings I believe he ranks as number 3 in the all time County MVP list. Only MT and Patel rank above him.
Im my opinion and some notable others (e.g.. Darren Gough) he has been shamefully over looked for significant England honours. By the way he is only 33 yrs old, hardly a veteran!
Well done PT!!
His injury had cleared by the time the Yorkshire game came up.
Lets not beat about the bush he was dropped! I don't care what the official is!
Any one who looks at his record over the last few years will see he is: With regard to fitness, probably the fittest player at Somerset and without doubt the most durable. In addition if one looks at the PCA rankings I believe he ranks as number 3 in the all time County MVP list. Only MT and Patel rank above him.
Im my opinion and some notable others (e.g.. Darren Gough) he has been shamefully over looked for significant England honours. By the way he is only 33 yrs old, hardly a veteran!
Well done PT!!
So Mesch a bad side and NC a bad neck. Probably doubtful that either is in a fit state to hit out to try to get to the bonus point (not that that's NC's style anyway).
So just try and block to delay the progress of the match for this partnership and then maybe Jamie might have a cheery slog afterwards?
So just try and block to delay the progress of the match for this partnership and then maybe Jamie might have a cheery slog afterwards?
Welcome to the forum Germiston lad.
We're pretty much all huge fans of Trigger here. He's even got a Grockles-spwcific nickname.
My point was not that I don't care whether he was rested or dropped: rather that I don't really care what Gibbo thinks!
We're pretty much all huge fans of Trigger here. He's even got a Grockles-spwcific nickname.
My point was not that I don't care whether he was rested or dropped: rather that I don't really care what Gibbo thinks!
For all Peter Trego's values (and I'm one of his greatest fans, and agree that he has been shamefully overlooked by England at ODI level), no-one has a right to a first-team place, least of all in the first game of the season. I'm sure the powers-that-be chose the best team they felt they could from those available, given form, fitness, opposition, conditions and all the other factors in the myriad that those selecting any XI take into account.
PT didn't make the XI, got some good practice in the 2s and is now back - now stay there will a bundle of runs and wickets.
PT didn't make the XI, got some good practice in the 2s and is now back - now stay there will a bundle of runs and wickets.
Well from a stickability point of view, we have managed to last 12 more overs than we did in the first dig last season. And I guess we didn't have only 9 fit men last year either.
So it's still progress from a stickability point of view though, sadly, not enough progress within the context of this match.
Durham will now have plenty of time to add to their lead.
So it's still progress from a stickability point of view though, sadly, not enough progress within the context of this match.
Durham will now have plenty of time to add to their lead.
Well PT will get a very, very long bowl in this Durham 2nd dig, one would imagine.
I guess we'll have to hope that tomorrow's weather is as bad as forecast because if most of the match's remaining 2.5 scheduled days actually take place then there's obviously not a very high chance of getting out of dodge without losing.
I guess we'll have to hope that tomorrow's weather is as bad as forecast because if most of the match's remaining 2.5 scheduled days actually take place then there's obviously not a very high chance of getting out of dodge without losing.
I wasn't stating any kind of glass analogy earlier Steve.
I was simply saying what I saw as the present position. We have a bowling problem and we've been in this injury situation before. We did not bolster our bowling attack during the winter so our young crop had to come good and that isn't the case as of yet
It was always a race against time to get Craig O back on track after nearly a season off.
There were issues with Jamie after his return from England and his injury before the winter tour made it difficult to rehab him AND deal with the issues as well before the start of the season. We haven't made it, it seems.
I think I made my view of the Adam Dibble position clear last year when it was declared he was being extended.
That meant the old guys had to start fresh. The injury to Steve has vital and has cut the time to get sorted down to nothing and the reserves are not there to fill the gaps.
It wasn't positive or negative. It was simply what it was. It needs sorting and there's very little time to breath and take stock. Let's hope the tide turns and they get it on the right track as soon as.
Meanwhile the weight is on Lewis' and Pete's shoulders.
I was simply saying what I saw as the present position. We have a bowling problem and we've been in this injury situation before. We did not bolster our bowling attack during the winter so our young crop had to come good and that isn't the case as of yet
It was always a race against time to get Craig O back on track after nearly a season off.
There were issues with Jamie after his return from England and his injury before the winter tour made it difficult to rehab him AND deal with the issues as well before the start of the season. We haven't made it, it seems.
I think I made my view of the Adam Dibble position clear last year when it was declared he was being extended.
That meant the old guys had to start fresh. The injury to Steve has vital and has cut the time to get sorted down to nothing and the reserves are not there to fill the gaps.
It wasn't positive or negative. It was simply what it was. It needs sorting and there's very little time to breath and take stock. Let's hope the tide turns and they get it on the right track as soon as.
Meanwhile the weight is on Lewis' and Pete's shoulders.
JOve bowling tighter, it seems?
And BoBo just keeps on doing the business!
And BoBo just keeps on doing the business!
Grockle: I know your style well enough by to have seen your analysis this morning as telling it like it is.
I was referring to how I felt after reading it. It didn't make encouraging reading, and then there is today's performance to reflect on.
Things need to start turning around now or it really is going to be tough road ahead the next five months.
Great to see PT being PT though even it didn't last long enough.
I was referring to how I felt after reading it. It didn't make encouraging reading, and then there is today's performance to reflect on.
Things need to start turning around now or it really is going to be tough road ahead the next five months.
Great to see PT being PT though even it didn't last long enough.
Should the weather fail to dance to AG's tune, this game looks far from over, to me.
Come on lads. Dig deep.
Come on lads. Dig deep.
Sounds like a much tighter bowling performance. If only we had bowled this tightly in the first dig!!!
There's one of 'em.
The mighty Trigger strikes.
Two more tonight?? Please? Pretty please?
The mighty Trigger strikes.
Two more tonight?? Please? Pretty please?
Can you dial up any more tonight, FE?
(but I'm not sure I want all of them, we don't want to bat tonight!)
(but I'm not sure I want all of them, we don't want to bat tonight!)
Game on, I'd say.
But we must blow them away in the morning, and I think a massive jolt of extra confidence from this evening might give us belief we can do just that.
Then it will need a perfect mix of patience and aggression and our season could look a whole lot better.
But we must blow them away in the morning, and I think a massive jolt of extra confidence from this evening might give us belief we can do just that.
Then it will need a perfect mix of patience and aggression and our season could look a whole lot better.
Realistically, you'd have to say Durham will feel very confident indeed, especially with two of our guys at less than 100%. One of their guys said that there'll always be a ball with your name on it on this track. And James Hildreth felt they'd got too many in their first dig.... all of which implies that 300 or so as a run-chase would be a very significant ask. Not to mention the presence of Mr Onions..
It's been a brave fightback with the ball today - sounded like a vast improvement on the first dig.
We can dream of a superb run chase but let's at the very least hope for a thoroughly respectable second innings batting effort such that we can go to Hove with some momentum in both bowling and batting.
It's been a brave fightback with the ball today - sounded like a vast improvement on the first dig.
We can dream of a superb run chase but let's at the very least hope for a thoroughly respectable second innings batting effort such that we can go to Hove with some momentum in both bowling and batting.
Firstly thanks for the welcome Grocks and I totally agree with your post of 15.27. Sadly much the same could be said re our batting talent as we are very reliant on Jones making an impression and on MT actually making some runs this season and on NC continuing to bale us out.
Very good bowling effort for their second innings today but they are still going to be very well ahead if we ever bat again and how can pro bowlers give the opposition over 40 no balls already ??!!
Sadly - and very early days I know - but no real signs that we have improved much on last season and my 65 years of waiting for the top prize seems destined to compete yet again with my living a bit longer.
Bowlers are young and may move up to the mark but batting wise we have problems I feel as MT and JH are not doing much for 2 / 3 years now and AP is patchy at best. CK and PT have not troubled the averages much either !
Hope to be proved wrong yet again but sadly my half empty SCCC glass seems an annual and consistent reality. My opinion is that MT is past his sell by date very sadly in most aspects of his game and no real successor at our club.
Sorry Big Jim - admire your optimism but can't see any success coming this season.
Very good bowling effort for their second innings today but they are still going to be very well ahead if we ever bat again and how can pro bowlers give the opposition over 40 no balls already ??!!
Sadly - and very early days I know - but no real signs that we have improved much on last season and my 65 years of waiting for the top prize seems destined to compete yet again with my living a bit longer.
Bowlers are young and may move up to the mark but batting wise we have problems I feel as MT and JH are not doing much for 2 / 3 years now and AP is patchy at best. CK and PT have not troubled the averages much either !
Hope to be proved wrong yet again but sadly my half empty SCCC glass seems an annual and consistent reality. My opinion is that MT is past his sell by date very sadly in most aspects of his game and no real successor at our club.
Sorry Big Jim - admire your optimism but can't see any success coming this season.
Cheers Rodders. I'm sure we'll fit right back in eventually :-)
Can't agree about the batting. Jones is not the pivot IMHO. But it is good to see him starting a season.
We have Marcus in form (we hope), Petersen (not happy he's back?), Hildreth in authoritarian mode - I hope its a catalyst, Compo looking for England caps, Kieswetter (hopefully looking for the same), Pete looking to put 2013 behind him with the willow,.
That's 6 and we bat to 9 because that doesn't include Myburgh who is presently way above expectation, Jonah himself and Craig Meschede who hasn't even been asked to put bat to ball in any kind of anger yet.
What's more Mr Barrow is making runs everywhere? Then there's Tom who hasn't even been asked to step up yet. You think we're understrength with the bat? I'll wait for 2013 to revisit before I worry about that aspect.
The batting is there but whether it turns up is yet to be seen. It started out better than last year but it's early days
Can't agree about the batting. Jones is not the pivot IMHO. But it is good to see him starting a season.
We have Marcus in form (we hope), Petersen (not happy he's back?), Hildreth in authoritarian mode - I hope its a catalyst, Compo looking for England caps, Kieswetter (hopefully looking for the same), Pete looking to put 2013 behind him with the willow,.
That's 6 and we bat to 9 because that doesn't include Myburgh who is presently way above expectation, Jonah himself and Craig Meschede who hasn't even been asked to put bat to ball in any kind of anger yet.
What's more Mr Barrow is making runs everywhere? Then there's Tom who hasn't even been asked to step up yet. You think we're understrength with the bat? I'll wait for 2013 to revisit before I worry about that aspect.
The batting is there but whether it turns up is yet to be seen. It started out better than last year but it's early days
OK,we are still in with a chance here if we take 3 quick wickets and bat properly. Please note that Durham had 13 no balls as against our 30,so a net 17. It was also very cold today. Note also that 27 wickets have fallen and 13 of them were LBW. I was sideways on and at least 2 were well down the wicket on the front foot, which seems to say pitch it up. We are in a far worse position that I hoped at 11.00 and a far better one than I dared to hope at 3.00.
Another fascinating day. Looked to have been 3 significant passages of play-quick wickets in the morning, another clatter of wickets after Trego was out & then the dismissals towards the end.
Batting did not look easy-I missed the morning session and left before we lost the late wickets-and I'm not sure the umpiring has been great, Compton looked aghast to be given out lbw and I also felt Stoneman got a big edge when he was given out.
My feeling this afternoon was that anything over 250 would be tough to chase. However, Somerset have a lot of top-class batsmen so ( weather permitting)it could be set for an intriguing finish.
Batting did not look easy-I missed the morning session and left before we lost the late wickets-and I'm not sure the umpiring has been great, Compton looked aghast to be given out lbw and I also felt Stoneman got a big edge when he was given out.
My feeling this afternoon was that anything over 250 would be tough to chase. However, Somerset have a lot of top-class batsmen so ( weather permitting)it could be set for an intriguing finish.
Well after batting poorly, we've fought our way back into at least semi-contention.
Going to take some guts from here to get us near whatever post Durham set us though.
Suggest the SCCC Batsmen might like to eat grit for breakfast tomorrow, because someone is going to have to display it..................in spades.
Grizzzly
Going to take some guts from here to get us near whatever post Durham set us though.
Suggest the SCCC Batsmen might like to eat grit for breakfast tomorrow, because someone is going to have to display it..................in spades.
Grizzzly
Had a good day !! Met tractor and other somerset fans and sun was shining. Bowlers did well at the end. Lewis impresses me and tregs as durable as ever . Weather may be@#$%&tomorrow. That suits us . Set us 300 on last day. !! Go for it !! It just takes one knock but for ygod sake get well forward . Every time it hits the pad it's out !!
Well there are specific days in seasons that people look back on as important and today may be one. Somerset need to do two things today that may define 2014 and start a different conversation.
Bowl out the tail in an early match cheaply
Bat long
Bowl out the tail in an early match cheaply
Bat long
Unlikely to be any play today but tomorrow looks to be fine. Pitch has uneven bounce - Trego was out to a ball that kept very low, and Ronniesabre is right too many LBW's - especially Compton's.
The Durham supporters I was sitting beside said that the average innings at CLS is about 250, and with 17 wickets falling yesterday, the ECB should take a closer interest. It would be interesting to compare Onions' (and other Durham bowlers) figures at home and away - suspect that might reveal why he is not in the England squad.
The game is there to be won on Wednesday but the batting has to improve dramatically.
The Durham supporters I was sitting beside said that the average innings at CLS is about 250, and with 17 wickets falling yesterday, the ECB should take a closer interest. It would be interesting to compare Onions' (and other Durham bowlers) figures at home and away - suspect that might reveal why he is not in the England squad.
The game is there to be won on Wednesday but the batting has to improve dramatically.
At the present moment the weather in North Newcastle is overcast but dry. I too was wondering along the lines of NBJ that when 17 wickets fall in a day, of which 10 were bowled or LBW whether the pitch inspectors might be interested. Yesterday was a good day for Pete.
NBJ, I think someone here did that "home and away" comparison on the Durham attack a while ago, and the disparity wasn't as great as some of us expected.
I now seem to remember vaguely that there was an inspection at CLS within the last two or three years, and that they were cleared because the movement was swing not seam. Yesterday however was mostly sunny and even when not, the cloud was high and thin and not really conducive to swing movement. It was hard to judge movement from where I was sitting, but maybe Trego's success suggests that I am wrong.
I'm 10 miles south east of CLS, started raining here a bit at 8am. now been hosing down for over an hour. Unless there is a tiny clear mic roclimate over the Riverside I can't see play starting on time. Local weather forecast suggests main belt of rain will clear through between 2 and 3pm, but chances of play will depend on how wet the ground is, as well as the state of the light (there are no floodlights at CLS).
Forecast for tomorrow looks pretty good - dry, little bit of sun, nothing much in the way of showers.
Picture of the ground posted by Martin Emerson (local BBC commentator) at 10am [twitter.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:22:10:06:49 by Bagpuss.
Forecast for tomorrow looks pretty good - dry, little bit of sun, nothing much in the way of showers.
Picture of the ground posted by Martin Emerson (local BBC commentator) at 10am [twitter.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:22:10:06:49 by Bagpuss.
Any mini-session (unless truly miniscule) after all the rain today would surely play into Durham's hands if they end up with any time at all bowling at our top order in the murk.
If Somerset fail to wrap the Durham innings up quickly tomorrow (assuming that's when they get back on) then Collingwood may end up with a small dilemma re: the timing of declaration.
This does not seem like a draw pitch at all. But if the time were to get down to, say, just two sessions plus half and hour left after Durham declared, then the draw might then become an outside possibility.
Frankly, I think we need NC's neck to clear up, pronto. I think he's probably the only guy we have that I would back to have the technical/defensive ability to drop anchor and bat through an innings in these sort of tough batting conditions against an attack that will be accurate and keep the ball pitched up.
If NC could drop anchor then maybe the more attacking types such as Hildreth, Kieswetter and Trego might have permission to have a bit of a dart and try and put some pressure back onto Durham? Certainly Pete did not seem overly bothered about any entreaty to "bat long," in the first dig, preferring to get on with it. Of course, it may be that DN's instructions re: the batting are really aimed at the specialist batsmen only and that the all-rounders will generally be encourage to still bat in an attacking manner.
If Somerset fail to wrap the Durham innings up quickly tomorrow (assuming that's when they get back on) then Collingwood may end up with a small dilemma re: the timing of declaration.
This does not seem like a draw pitch at all. But if the time were to get down to, say, just two sessions plus half and hour left after Durham declared, then the draw might then become an outside possibility.
Frankly, I think we need NC's neck to clear up, pronto. I think he's probably the only guy we have that I would back to have the technical/defensive ability to drop anchor and bat through an innings in these sort of tough batting conditions against an attack that will be accurate and keep the ball pitched up.
If NC could drop anchor then maybe the more attacking types such as Hildreth, Kieswetter and Trego might have permission to have a bit of a dart and try and put some pressure back onto Durham? Certainly Pete did not seem overly bothered about any entreaty to "bat long," in the first dig, preferring to get on with it. Of course, it may be that DN's instructions re: the batting are really aimed at the specialist batsmen only and that the all-rounders will generally be encourage to still bat in an attacking manner.
Personally I think Durham already have enough. However, that favourite phrase of some on here 'on paper' Somerset's batting line up looks easily capable of chasing them down.
If Wednesday's forecast had looked a bit dodgy then if I was Collingwood i'd have declared and had 6 or 8 overs at Somerset last night. However with what looks like a full days play in the offing tomorrow I can understand why they batted on. Any play they get today will be a bonus. Yesterday's forecast suggested there may have been an our or so possible this morning and Durham would probabaly have batted on - as it transpires they will only play later today if at all and I think it likely that they will declare as soon as playstarts - but if they are canny (I can't imagine Colly is anything but) they won't do so until the last possible moment, encouraging Somerset to believe they'll have to go back out in the field.
If Wednesday's forecast had looked a bit dodgy then if I was Collingwood i'd have declared and had 6 or 8 overs at Somerset last night. However with what looks like a full days play in the offing tomorrow I can understand why they batted on. Any play they get today will be a bonus. Yesterday's forecast suggested there may have been an our or so possible this morning and Durham would probabaly have batted on - as it transpires they will only play later today if at all and I think it likely that they will declare as soon as playstarts - but if they are canny (I can't imagine Colly is anything but) they won't do so until the last possible moment, encouraging Somerset to believe they'll have to go back out in the field.
Bagpuss - I'm hoping that Colly will not declare immediately (though I share your view as to them probably having enough already). Most Captains, however canny, tend to err on the side of caution..
If time enters the equation, then that's another way of transferring pressure onto Durham, IMO.
If time enters the equation, then that's another way of transferring pressure onto Durham, IMO.
Re the ECB wicket inspectors, the rule used to be that it was compusory they attended, and delivered a verdict on points deduction or otherwise, after any day on which 16 or more wickets fell, whatever the circumstances.
Perhaps this has changed, as 17 fell at C-le-S yesterday.
Perhaps this has changed, as 17 fell at C-le-S yesterday.
Stat from Martin Emerson of the BBC
In the 10 matches where teams have chased 300+ in the 4th innings to win v Durham, Durham have won 3, lost 6 and drawn once.
These are both home and away matches. If anyone wants to they could look up the stats just at CLS but I would tentatively suggest not many of those 6 losses were at the Riverside!
In the 10 matches where teams have chased 300+ in the 4th innings to win v Durham, Durham have won 3, lost 6 and drawn once.
These are both home and away matches. If anyone wants to they could look up the stats just at CLS but I would tentatively suggest not many of those 6 losses were at the Riverside!
I'd further suggest that if they were at CLS then they were probably back when they were a nascent first-class County.
However, there was one recent defeat at CLS, I believe, as commentators were going on about it yesterday - I believe a big Joe Root ton gave Yorkshire victory at CLS in a large run-chase last season?
Mark (Durham fan) did say that visiting teams at Durham usually make more runs in their second dig than their first but I think it's normally of the order of 30-40 more than the 90+ more that we will need.
However, there was one recent defeat at CLS, I believe, as commentators were going on about it yesterday - I believe a big Joe Root ton gave Yorkshire victory at CLS in a large run-chase last season?
Mark (Durham fan) did say that visiting teams at Durham usually make more runs in their second dig than their first but I think it's normally of the order of 30-40 more than the 90+ more that we will need.
If there is no play today-which looking out of my window seems highly likely, then Collingwood has a dilemma in the morning. Does he think that 275 is too many for a team that has just made 185 and are 2 batsmen down. If so he declares, but he remembers that Northants chasing??? 300+ hung on by the skin of their teeth for 70 overs. Bat for 10 more overs tomorrow to make it safe and take out the innings break an the equation tilts.
All very interesting
All very interesting
Adding to Collingwood's dilemma...........
NC did field yesterday. And looks like he will have a day off today.
So Colly may not know whether it's 9 men or 10 as I doubt Tres will rush to inform him as to whether or not NC is fit...
Who knows, if Meschede's side strain is very minor even that may heal enough such that it barely affects his batting?
NC did field yesterday. And looks like he will have a day off today.
So Colly may not know whether it's 9 men or 10 as I doubt Tres will rush to inform him as to whether or not NC is fit...
Who knows, if Meschede's side strain is very minor even that may heal enough such that it barely affects his batting?
Durham vs Yorks - Apr 24, 25, 26 and 27 2013:
Durham 237 from 73.4 overs and 275 for 4 dec from 78
Yorkshire 177 from 55 overs and 339 for 6 from 96.5 overs - J E Root 182.
Apart from the difference in size of first innings lead that Durham had then vs in this match, the most obvious difference is that Durham seem to have coasted in their second batting dig, implying that the track had already flattened out very considerably.
The 152 for 7 that Durham have in their second dig here implies no such thing...
Durham 237 from 73.4 overs and 275 for 4 dec from 78
Yorkshire 177 from 55 overs and 339 for 6 from 96.5 overs - J E Root 182.
Apart from the difference in size of first innings lead that Durham had then vs in this match, the most obvious difference is that Durham seem to have coasted in their second batting dig, implying that the track had already flattened out very considerably.
The 152 for 7 that Durham have in their second dig here implies no such thing...
What happens, happens.
Am I the only one that doesn't get all this what if and buts malarkey?
On the bus in Swansea.
It's lovely here, sunny and warm.
Anyone fancy a pint?
Am I the only one that doesn't get all this what if and buts malarkey?
On the bus in Swansea.
It's lovely here, sunny and warm.
Anyone fancy a pint?
Yes please, BJ.
p.s Has the Mayor of Swansea not yet banned drinking on your buses then?
p.s Has the Mayor of Swansea not yet banned drinking on your buses then?
Lovely idea BJ, don't mind if I do!
News from ground is rain stopped and groundstaff are mopping up, but light poor and quite misty too. 4-ish? Maybe.
News from ground is rain stopped and groundstaff are mopping up, but light poor and quite misty too. 4-ish? Maybe.
p.s BJ - they're starting in 22 minutes time at the delightful SWALEC stadium so you could always double their gate by popping along there with your beer..........
Whilst I'm still at my b&b reaching record levels of tea consumption those in the press box at Chester-le-Street are playing hunt-the-castle
It's the Dylan Thomas centenary, you can drink anywhere in Swansea at the moment....just don't let plod catch you at it.
If Colly does declare, and I think we should at least half expect it, might tomorrow be the day to be a little daring and experimental?
I think I would be tempted to open with Nick and Alviro, followed by Jonah and Tres.
I think I would be tempted to open with Nick and Alviro, followed by Jonah and Tres.
I agree FE: Its too early in the season for battening down the hatches too quickly. Go for it early with some scope for blocking down the order at 5 and 6. I suspect like you that Durham will try to add another 30 or 40 runs very quickly before declaring, so the batting tactics will depend largely on our bowling performance first thing. Maybe keep Overton and Gregory out of it and go with Pete and Johan.
I cannot imagine Trescothick being willing to drop down the order, personally.
But if "daring", is your goal, then I'd suggest that the most daring approach would be to send out one of our most attacking players up the order - Trego to number four or something like that.
You could go with the normal openers and NC at three, Pete at four with permission to attack, and you'd then have AP, Hildreth and CK at 5, 6 and 7 respectively.
Game-plan could be: top three try to see off the opening two bowlers, then Pete to attack the change bowlers.
But if "daring", is your goal, then I'd suggest that the most daring approach would be to send out one of our most attacking players up the order - Trego to number four or something like that.
You could go with the normal openers and NC at three, Pete at four with permission to attack, and you'd then have AP, Hildreth and CK at 5, 6 and 7 respectively.
Game-plan could be: top three try to see off the opening two bowlers, then Pete to attack the change bowlers.
I suspect AG that you are right: Banger would need some persuading. That's why I felt tomorrow's potential situation might be an easier "sell": "I (DN) want you (MT) to be able to put the pedal down after the naturally steadier players, NC, AP & CJ, have seen off the first thrust of the new ball".
I did say "a little daring".
I did say "a little daring".
NBJ Gregory has been one of our better bowlers and collingwood was playing johann esp well late on Monday. I'd start with Gregory and trego and take it from there.
At the moment the rate is under 3 an over so if Durham do declare then all we need is sensible batting for 90 overs.
An extra 40 runs and 12 overs fewer gets it towards 4 so our attacking guys will be needed. Very interesting, provided that the weather is better.
An extra 40 runs and 12 overs fewer gets it towards 4 so our attacking guys will be needed. Very interesting, provided that the weather is better.
Indeed, SP. But a draw in which we've shown a real intent to try and win would be preferable.
Durham will not declare, although if weather at all dodgy they should.
If we lose more than 10/15 overs from the day it pretty much takes us winning out of it.
Durham would like/need 60/70 overs to have a decent chance of bowling us out.
If they hang around too long getting lead much above 300 then they are just eating into their bowling time.
If we can get away with the 8 point draw i'll take it and move on to Sussex quite happy.
If we lose more than 10/15 overs from the day it pretty much takes us winning out of it.
Durham would like/need 60/70 overs to have a decent chance of bowling us out.
If they hang around too long getting lead much above 300 then they are just eating into their bowling time.
If we can get away with the 8 point draw i'll take it and move on to Sussex quite happy.
I reckon Durham will declare. The most dangerous time for batting will be the first hour - the pitch will have been under the covers for some 36 hours. Why waste that on batting and maybe getting another 30 runs?
If tis was at Taunton things would be a lot different. I'd love to be proved wrong but Durham's lead of 275 looks plenty to me. And we're not sure how Nick's neck is so he may not even bat at 3 ley alone move up to open.
If tis was at Taunton things would be a lot different. I'd love to be proved wrong but Durham's lead of 275 looks plenty to me. And we're not sure how Nick's neck is so he may not even bat at 3 ley alone move up to open.
I'm with Bagpuss. 275 is plenty. It's nearly 100 more than we made first innings. It's only2.86 so doesn't have to be a run chase but if I were Collingwood I'd back Onions Rushworth and Harrison to take 10 wickets in 96 overs.
However, we did make 500 against Yorkshire, so I have not written the win off. Score at 12.00 matters. If Durham have batted it doesn't matter how many they have scored our win chances go but the draw likeliehood is increased. If they declare then I am looking at 35 for no wicket at 12.00 and take it from there. There is cloud here but the sun is shining.
However, we did make 500 against Yorkshire, so I have not written the win off. Score at 12.00 matters. If Durham have batted it doesn't matter how many they have scored our win chances go but the draw likeliehood is increased. If they declare then I am looking at 35 for no wicket at 12.00 and take it from there. There is cloud here but the sun is shining.
There's an interview online with Lewis the Durham coach. He says in that a big advantage they have is that they will get to see the wicket first hand when they bat, so unless collingwood has other ideas and hasn't told him or there is a change of heart overnight it seems they will bat on!!
Well if 275 in a day is enough for Durham then say goodbye to any Somerset CC hopes this year. On whatever pitch with whatever CC bowlers if we are going to struggle to make 300 in any innings then we're out of the race for honours.
I'm with FE. We need to show intent and confidence (even if many believe it to be baseless). If we have to go for it to win even if it may mean we lose then we either do it early and set a base for the season or we don't and accept the mediocrity and half hearted approach we've seen the club slump into and struggle then to get out of for more seasons than I care to recall.
Early wins, seemingly against the odds are worth their weight in gold. I personally don't see this in any way as beyond us but if the side thinks it is then it will be.
I'm with FE. We need to show intent and confidence (even if many believe it to be baseless). If we have to go for it to win even if it may mean we lose then we either do it early and set a base for the season or we don't and accept the mediocrity and half hearted approach we've seen the club slump into and struggle then to get out of for more seasons than I care to recall.
Early wins, seemingly against the odds are worth their weight in gold. I personally don't see this in any way as beyond us but if the side thinks it is then it will be.
Yep think you are right grockle. Some intent would be nice but I fear we are sort of waiting for the inevitable . Someone has to take it to them and upset their rhythm somehow. Pete tried on Monday and Marcus would have in his pomp. I expect so much more from petersen but he hasn't really delivered for us yet. Maybe today?
I suspect that Colly may think SCCC a much more dangerous beast if going for a win, rather than trying to hang on for a draw.
Hence I think he'll bat on such that we'll need need the highest score of the match to win.
That might take them 10 or 12 overs or so which would reduce the day to 76 overs but I couldn't see Somerset seriously trying to chase 309+ in 76 overs. And, especially if NC is not at 100 percent, then I cannot see Somerset defensive techniques being up to simply batting out 76 overs in purely defensive mode.
If Colly instead leaves us 88 overs to chase 275 then i think we have more chance not only of winning but also of drawing because team may come out in 'we can get these' mode.
One other factor for Colly to consider must also be the short boundary on one side of the ground.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:08:50:56 by AGod.
Hence I think he'll bat on such that we'll need need the highest score of the match to win.
That might take them 10 or 12 overs or so which would reduce the day to 76 overs but I couldn't see Somerset seriously trying to chase 309+ in 76 overs. And, especially if NC is not at 100 percent, then I cannot see Somerset defensive techniques being up to simply batting out 76 overs in purely defensive mode.
If Colly instead leaves us 88 overs to chase 275 then i think we have more chance not only of winning but also of drawing because team may come out in 'we can get these' mode.
One other factor for Colly to consider must also be the short boundary on one side of the ground.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:08:50:56 by AGod.
We could bowl them out with the first three balls and then the if's, but's and maybe's can begin again.
Great game played on grass this cricket. Here's hoping for a positive day and result
Great game played on grass this cricket. Here's hoping for a positive day and result
I wasn't trying to imply that we couldn't win-or that we wouldn't. I am aware that Durham ran out of time against Northants and wouldn't want to do it again. I am also aware that we struggled to 180, Durham have struggled to 150 and that without no balls Durham were well under 300. Therefore Collingwood would be entitled to conclude that 275 was plenty. especially as we might be 2 batsmen down.However, it looks like a batting day not a bowling day from my window,and with the right mindset we can take this. I look forward immensely By the way AG- where is the 88 overs from. ?
GM I agree entirely with all you say except - is it ever really a batting day at Chester-le-Street?
Couple of locals think Durham will certainly bat on.
GM if you're there today come and say hi I'd love to meet you having missed you at Taunton several times in the past. Will be sitting at the Lumley Castle end between the two sight screens where Tractor is (unless it rains when I'll put the dog in the car and retreat to the Members')
Couple of locals think Durham will certainly bat on.
GM if you're there today come and say hi I'd love to meet you having missed you at Taunton several times in the past. Will be sitting at the Lumley Castle end between the two sight screens where Tractor is (unless it rains when I'll put the dog in the car and retreat to the Members')
Oh and I kind of agree with the attacking tactics ie going out believing we are going to make the runs rather than blocking for the draw. BUT that does not include playing across the line or away from the body at balls that can be left. Jennings in his 1st innings probably played the best of anyone on this pitch. No, not the most exciting or attracive player but the innings with least risk, waiting for the bad balls.
Somerset batsmen should take note. And hope that Onions, Rushworth and Harrison supply sufficient bad balls.
Somerset batsmen should take note. And hope that Onions, Rushworth and Harrison supply sufficient bad balls.
Unfortunately disposing of some of the bad balls is likely to involve playing away from the body, for example short and wide or over-pitched and wide?
Equally if we're to make a go of the target then I'd have thought we may have to 'target,' the short boundary? There are some on our side, especially AP, for whom their natural game is to play across the line by wandering across stumps and looking to turn things to leg. Obviously if he does that there's a big chance of lbw and some chance of leading edge...but if he gets it right several times with the short boundary to leg then the boundaries could mount up before he's out lbw!
Equally if we're to make a go of the target then I'd have thought we may have to 'target,' the short boundary? There are some on our side, especially AP, for whom their natural game is to play across the line by wandering across stumps and looking to turn things to leg. Obviously if he does that there's a big chance of lbw and some chance of leading edge...but if he gets it right several times with the short boundary to leg then the boundaries could mount up before he's out lbw!
GM - i thought there were 90 overs in the final day but forgot there'd be no deduction of overs if Colly really does declare at 10.50.
Still doubt that he will, though.
Still doubt that he will, though.
Meschede's issue supposedly is a hip problem which sounds like it may have more potential to be a problem than a simple side strain. I'd assume he'll be off for scans or what have you, if he hasn't already.
Meschede is fielding today, though I don't expect he will be called upon to bowl.
I wonder if Tres may be tempted to bring Overton on with a view to bowling a few shorts ones into Onions' gloves?
Gregory, who was blemish free on the no-ball front in the first innings, has caught "the disease", in this second innings.
Well, at 322 lead (and batting on) I think it fair to say that any realistic chance of a successful run chase has gone.
So the question will be, can our guys summon the requisite technique and application to get out of here without a defeat?
So the question will be, can our guys summon the requisite technique and application to get out of here without a defeat?
Might as well concede defeat and head home then.
Or we could try and win it. At least.
Or we could try and win it. At least.
Declared setting us 337 to win.
Get the Sussex 2012 away DVD out for motivation.
Get the Sussex 2012 away DVD out for motivation.
The forecast threatens to rob us of certain victory at about 5.15. Twas ever thus...
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Good luck boys. Heads down and graft it out.
If 180 for 2 at tea who knows?
If 180 for 2 at tea who knows?
Unfortunately huge difference between end of season game at Hove and early season game at CLS vs Onions - and I'm sure our batsmen will be very well aware of the difference!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:12:20:24 by AGod.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:12:20:24 by AGod.
Thanks, Mike - they (the 5 points) would be very welcome, IMO.
Tres just gone though. His recent record on this ground is pretty poor to say the least, so no great surprise, I'm afraid. I expect he'll feel he missed out badly on the flat track vs Yorkshire.
Tres just gone though. His recent record on this ground is pretty poor to say the least, so no great surprise, I'm afraid. I expect he'll feel he missed out badly on the flat track vs Yorkshire.
Very sad to say so, but I am afraid that we can no longer expect any significant contributions with the bat from Marcus. As George Dobell commented on Cricinfo a couple of days ago he looks a long way from the player he once was. One has to realise that missing runs from him is a massive loss and will not be easily replaced.
Nothing would please me more however than for Marcus to prove me wrong.
Nothing would please me more however than for Marcus to prove me wrong.
He often started seasons poorly even when he was an excellent player. So we may have to wait a few more matches to be absolutely sure of that.
But he certainly looked miles past his best last season and, unless his winter operation has improved the health of that wretched ankle of his, then it seems unlikely that he will improve this season.
If he does not improve over, say, the next four CC matches, then it's imperative that the club grasps the nettle and makes a change. They must NOT be too timid to do so.
But he certainly looked miles past his best last season and, unless his winter operation has improved the health of that wretched ankle of his, then it seems unlikely that he will improve this season.
If he does not improve over, say, the next four CC matches, then it's imperative that the club grasps the nettle and makes a change. They must NOT be too timid to do so.
Maybe it's time he started considering coming lower at the order - coming in at 5/6 against tired/slower bowlers I still think he could carve up a few tidy scores.
What an opportunity for Chris jones to build on Yorks game and make a name for himself....just needs the right mix of watchfulness and aggression, and the afternoon session could yet be interesting.
I won't write of Tres yet. Just one decent knock might yet get him going.
I won't write of Tres yet. Just one decent knock might yet get him going.
2 down in 12 overs. In the first dig we were four down inside 17 overs.
I'd suggest that the third wicket needs to last until at least the 25th over to give us much chance of getting out of this.
I'd suggest that the third wicket needs to last until at least the 25th over to give us much chance of getting out of this.
I agree, Tumbles, particularly in certain scenarios. Which is why I suggested yesterday that today's situation was the perfect platfirm to try it.
Shame.
But I'm far from writing Banger off yet.
Shame.
But I'm far from writing Banger off yet.
And whilst I try not to be an "I told you so" merchant, should this third wicket pair provide a significant, but steady, partnership, then I will be even more convinced that my proposed strategy was the right one.
Indeed, Mike. Suggests that trying to simply survive is doomed: there's probably a grubber with your name on it around the corner.
I genuinely believe we now need to attack this target, as that is our only chance of winning and our better chance of getting the draw.
I genuinely believe we now need to attack this target, as that is our only chance of winning and our better chance of getting the draw.
Not just this game a lot of lbws. Yorks had 8 out of 9 to fall in 1st inns v Northants.
Hi - first proper post in ages so sorry if this has been mentioned before.
Without the benefit of SCCC wisdom of many on this forum, I have a couple of questions...
1) Have we missed a trick not recruiting a reliable pace bowler to our ranks this winter? We have either a fairly young and potentially very good attack or a fairly old attack that seem quite injury prone.
2) How are we going to get Dockers in the eleven? Decent start from Myburgh but he is not going to win us games with the ball.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:14:11:53 by NW5Somerset.
Without the benefit of SCCC wisdom of many on this forum, I have a couple of questions...
1) Have we missed a trick not recruiting a reliable pace bowler to our ranks this winter? We have either a fairly young and potentially very good attack or a fairly old attack that seem quite injury prone.
2) How are we going to get Dockers in the eleven? Decent start from Myburgh but he is not going to win us games with the ball.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:14:11:53 by NW5Somerset.
73 for 2 - at what point might this be worth a little charge to see if we can open something up?
It would be a shame to finish 30ish short with wickets in hand.
It would be a shame to finish 30ish short with wickets in hand.
We are going along at 3 to 3.5 an over, at the moment that's all they really need to be doing. If we get to 200/4 then perhaps Trego can come in and let rip.
FE- to be fair Jones seemed to do a reasonably good job up front in this innings. After he'd made 70 whatever it was vs Yorkshire, I'm not convinced if would have been the right thing for his confidence to have moved him down the order again.
More generally, one might make the point that we, arguably, appear to have FOUR opening batsmen in the current XI (also the case vs Yorkshire). This is a slightly unusual situation but, dare I suggest it, perhaps not an unhelpful one in our current situation in this match.
By the same token, I - like NW5 - would like to think that we'll get a specialist spin bowler into the XI at some point. A straight swap for Myburgh might be the obvious move, but then Myburgh has done pretty well with the bat so far and so currently deserves his place based on the first couple of games. In which case one of the four openers (obviously not Compton and probably not Petersen) might need to be the guy to make way.
More generally, one might make the point that we, arguably, appear to have FOUR opening batsmen in the current XI (also the case vs Yorkshire). This is a slightly unusual situation but, dare I suggest it, perhaps not an unhelpful one in our current situation in this match.
By the same token, I - like NW5 - would like to think that we'll get a specialist spin bowler into the XI at some point. A straight swap for Myburgh might be the obvious move, but then Myburgh has done pretty well with the bat so far and so currently deserves his place based on the first couple of games. In which case one of the four openers (obviously not Compton and probably not Petersen) might need to be the guy to make way.
I think it should be gradual, increase the run rate to four an over and when the last sixteen overs in the last hour start there shouldn't be too much pressure if we have wickets in-hand.
I don't know. I'd still have thought this is the sort of track where one wicket could easily bring three.
Whilst people rightly said it would be a phenomenal boost to the club if we were to win this match, it would also, IMO, be a significant boost if we were to get out of this one with a draw. Certainly, I think it would be a big boon for our batting group.
Whilst people rightly said it would be a phenomenal boost to the club if we were to win this match, it would also, IMO, be a significant boost if we were to get out of this one with a draw. Certainly, I think it would be a big boon for our batting group.
Usual lack of concentration/judgement from Hildreth by the sounds of it.
A failure of situational intelligence - we'd just lost AP, he'd faced all of two balls and then (according to the radio) - having a go at a wide one.
"Being positive," is one thing but the old idea of playing yourself in never will go out of fashion as a sensible thing to do, IMO.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:15:00:33 by AGod.
A failure of situational intelligence - we'd just lost AP, he'd faced all of two balls and then (according to the radio) - having a go at a wide one.
"Being positive," is one thing but the old idea of playing yourself in never will go out of fashion as a sensible thing to do, IMO.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:15:00:33 by AGod.
A bit worrying if that lack of judgment is from one of the senior players who you would hope would see that with the title vice-Captain goes a little extra responsibility...
Down to NC to save us now...
Down to NC to save us now...
Looking pretty bleak to save the match now - all this talk of going for the runs rather silly with our record.
Sadly have to agree with Grocks ( getting to be a habit I must watch it ) when he says that little to justify any real expectations of any honours this season.
In two innings only two Durham batsmen scored more than our total number of no balls - schoolboy cricket !
Also as I have said before no real optimism regarding any runs from MT and looks like JH is trying to join his skipper.
If any of you can give me a sound rational for expecting a significant improvement over last season I would love to hear it as I need cheering up in my 65th year of supporting !
Blind optimism does not count !
Sadly have to agree with Grocks ( getting to be a habit I must watch it ) when he says that little to justify any real expectations of any honours this season.
In two innings only two Durham batsmen scored more than our total number of no balls - schoolboy cricket !
Also as I have said before no real optimism regarding any runs from MT and looks like JH is trying to join his skipper.
If any of you can give me a sound rational for expecting a significant improvement over last season I would love to hear it as I need cheering up in my 65th year of supporting !
Blind optimism does not count !
Well, stevecav, one wonders whether JH inheriting the captaincy will do the job of helping to make him a bit more solid and dependable? On the other hand, dismissals like that one may make him less likely to ascend to the the Captaincy in the first place, despite currently being VC.
He might be the most frustrating batsman since David Gower, IMO.
He might be the most frustrating batsman since David Gower, IMO.
Great job from NC and Kieswetter to get us out of the mire.
Assuming that the job is completed, then this should be a huge boon to the players.
I'm sure plenty of teams will be beaten at CLS this season.
Assuming that the job is completed, then this should be a huge boon to the players.
I'm sure plenty of teams will be beaten at CLS this season.
It is great effort from these two, but I particularly like CK's contribution as it's not so much his natural game as it is NC's.
Agreed escaping with an honourable draw will be good for morale, but you can't help wondering what might have been if we hadn't let their last 3 wickets take it away from us....
Agreed escaping with an honourable draw will be good for morale, but you can't help wondering what might have been if we hadn't let their last 3 wickets take it away from us....
Crikey - 2 maximums (I know it should be maxima!) - does ck suddenly think there's enough overs left to have a little dart at it??
I think he's just enjoying himself!
(That's it).
I think most of us would probably have taken a draw from an away game at CLS if offered before the game started.
I think an even greater number of us would have taken it, had we been told that two of our 11 would be unable to operate fully for about half the game each.
And I'm pretty certain we'd have taken it at the start of the day.
Very good result.
On to Hove...
(That's it).
I think most of us would probably have taken a draw from an away game at CLS if offered before the game started.
I think an even greater number of us would have taken it, had we been told that two of our 11 would be unable to operate fully for about half the game each.
And I'm pretty certain we'd have taken it at the start of the day.
Very good result.
On to Hove...
Commentators said that Craig Overton was doing some 12th man duties today? Does anyone know if they mean actual fielding, or did they just mean carrying drinks etc?
If he's fit enough to field then, hopefully, there's nothing very much wrong with him.
If he's fit enough to field then, hopefully, there's nothing very much wrong with him.
Highly commendable draw thanks to Compo and CK
Shame tho about the first dig.
Shame tho about the first dig.
Well done to Nick and Craig.
With a more adventurous declaration, who knows.
Both gently reminding the English selectors they are knocking on the door.
With a more adventurous declaration, who knows.
Both gently reminding the English selectors they are knocking on the door.
Durham saved by the weather, of course - shame about that.
Well played CK and NC, can feel very good about the team's efforts at Durham where, as AG says, many teams will lose games like this.
Well played CK and NC, can feel very good about the team's efforts at Durham where, as AG says, many teams will lose games like this.
Not specifically about this game, but should provision be made to make up lost overs to weather by early starts, late finishes?
Encouraging that we have probably won both games on points so far. Well batted NC & CK!
Encouraging that we have probably won both games on points so far. Well batted NC & CK!
Well done to the two of them and I hold my hand up for being too pessimistic too early.
Still waiting for my OAP encouraging posts though as we never really looked like winning and sadly...........!
Still waiting for my OAP encouraging posts though as we never really looked like winning and sadly...........!
This was not a chasing wicket but the game was there to lose and we had an escellent display of batting from Nick and Craig. Very encouraging. Durham saved by the rain
Quote:edinburghbil
Not specifically about this game, but should provision be made to make up lost overs to weather by early starts, late finishes?
Encouraging that we have probably won both games on points so far. Well batted NC & CK!
I think there are provisions on first 3 days of each game but not on the last day . May be wrong though!!
A solid batting performance and thats 2 out of 3 so far.
Two satisfactory draws against the top two last season and we were arguably on top in them both at the end.
I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about this season.
Two satisfactory draws against the top two last season and we were arguably on top in them both at the end.
I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about this season.
Nick and CK did not get us 'out of the mire' AG. We gained a draw in a game cut short by rain. Indications were that had there not been rain the 'mire' might well have been on the other boot.
Says who, Grockle?
At the time they came togeher we were four down, having lost two wickets in rapid succession, with a lonnng time to go. And had Borthwick taken the early chance that CK gave them....
In the real world, their partnership saved the match for us.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:20:26:02 by AGod.
At the time they came togeher we were four down, having lost two wickets in rapid succession, with a lonnng time to go. And had Borthwick taken the early chance that CK gave them....
In the real world, their partnership saved the match for us.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:23:20:26:02 by AGod.
In fact, even if Somerset had won the description 'getting us out of the mire' would have been correct.
Don't think they make up for lost time any more. I think they did for a short while, but sadly no longer. Seems a no-brainer to me, though - I fear it's just the powers that be showing that the fair outcome of the CC is not really high on their agenda.
Quote:SP
I fear it's just the powers that be showing that the fair outcome of the CC is not really high on their agenda.
As is further evidenced by the fact that floodlights are allowed despite the fact that far from all the grounds used in any division have them.
Quote:RonniesabreQuote:edinburghbil
Not specifically about this game, but should provision be made to make up lost overs to weather by early starts, late finishes?
Encouraging that we have probably won both games on points so far. Well batted NC & CK!
I think there are provisions on first 3 days of each game but not on the last day . May be wrong though!!
You are correct Rommie, a maximum of thirty minutes can be played on the end of days 1-3.
This is from the ECB rules.
16.2.2 Making up lost time on the day
Subject to weather and light, in the event of playing
time being lost on Days 1,2 and 3, the scheduled close of play on that day shall be delayed by the amount of time lost up to a maximum of 30 minutes.
16.2.2 Making up lost time on the day
Subject to weather and light, in the event of playing
time being lost on Days 1,2 and 3, the scheduled close of play on that day shall be delayed by the amount of time lost up to a maximum of 30 minutes.
Presumably everybody else noticed (but was not sufficiently anally retentive to comment) that at the end of each of our first two CC matches we had scored precisely ninety fewer runs than our opponents - and would have had a good chance of narrowing that difference to effect a win had time allowed.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I think though that the extra 30 mins is only for time lost during that day ie 96 overs or 6.30. Time lost on one day cannot be made up on another.
Yhat's right, Railboy. In essence what the rule means is that if play is disrupted we don't start to lose overs in that day until half an hour has elapsed.
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa.
Presumably everybody else noticed (but was not sufficiently anally retentive to comment) that at the end of each of our first two CC matches we had scored precisely ninety fewer runs than our opponents - and would have had a good chance of narrowing that difference to effect a win had time allowed.
I refer the 'mire' boys to the reply my honourable friend gave a moment ago. Thank you LoL
Our bowlers got us out of your 'mire' in their second dig and I love the idea that finishing a game on 246 for 4 chasing a winning total of just over 300 is 'saving a game'. Priceless.
I would suggest to the honourable gentleman that TIME saved Durham rather than our batsmen saved us.
Top order batsmen are supposed to do what Nick and Craig did when the front end doesn't get the base sorted. They simply did their job very well. Who is to say that had the third day not have been lost they would not have done exactly the same thing and either taken us on to win or left it to the other SIX wickets left to fall to get the less than 90 runs required.
I hope we are in such a 'mire' with a day to go sometime in the future.
Oh AG..... LoL says
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:04:09:41 by Grockle.
Good effort to save the game/get as close as we did, depending on your perspective !
Tremendous efforts by Nick, CK & Trigger in this game, shouldn't overlook some challenges that we clearly face.
I'm sure we would all like to see a big score from Marcus next time around, alongside a much lower number of no-balls being bowled !
Still, will happily accept our undefeated mid table position after two games.
Grizzzly
Tremendous efforts by Nick, CK & Trigger in this game, shouldn't overlook some challenges that we clearly face.
I'm sure we would all like to see a big score from Marcus next time around, alongside a much lower number of no-balls being bowled !
Still, will happily accept our undefeated mid table position after two games.
Grizzzly
The pressure has to be moving upwards on Marcus' shoulders as his lack of a significant score in season competition continues. The good thing is that others are contributing this year rather than failing as well. I still think the analysis of his issues last season is standing the test of time and a movement down the order would significantly increase his chances of getting out of this rut.
It must play on his mind and that doesn't help getting past it in Tresco's case I am sure. It may be a case that if this continues he will have to consider the move or consider what many of us think of as the unthinkable but may be inevitable.
I really don't care what position the Trescothick three figures comes from but it would be a significant event for this team whose collective confidence can be a real problem as the season progresses and who need as many good performances as can be found in the early days.
As Grizzzly posts. Undefeated and mid table. Well it's been worse.
It must play on his mind and that doesn't help getting past it in Tresco's case I am sure. It may be a case that if this continues he will have to consider the move or consider what many of us think of as the unthinkable but may be inevitable.
I really don't care what position the Trescothick three figures comes from but it would be a significant event for this team whose collective confidence can be a real problem as the season progresses and who need as many good performances as can be found in the early days.
As Grizzzly posts. Undefeated and mid table. Well it's been worse.
A word for our much maligned bowling dept as well as deserved praise for two experienced batsman :
A good effort from inexperienced youngsters and one old warhorse especially after a wayward start.
Young players need enthusiastic encouragement as well as constructive criticism.
One hopes they will be allowed to learn from their mistakes and not be castigated to the point that it impairs their enthusiasm and instils fear into their game.
Keep going lads.
Well done.
A good effort from inexperienced youngsters and one old warhorse especially after a wayward start.
Young players need enthusiastic encouragement as well as constructive criticism.
One hopes they will be allowed to learn from their mistakes and not be castigated to the point that it impairs their enthusiasm and instils fear into their game.
Keep going lads.
Well done.
Perception plays a big part.MArcus was dropped early but his shots and his leaves still looked good and I was sure he was going to do it yesterday. The Durham folk around me were delighted to see his wicket as they still perceived him to be the big threat and were glad to see him out and Nick in.Can I mention the calling between Nick and Craig. You could have heard the firm NO in Newcastle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:07:13:48 by geordie moonraker.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:07:13:48 by geordie moonraker.
The 5 points for a draw as has been mentioned is important. It does reward hanging on for a draw (which we didn't do yesterday -we ended in a winning position) but makes run chases less likely. Part of yesterday was about denying a rival 16 pts which come the end of the season might be the difference between 2 teams battling for the title.
Yes, Grockle no dispute that the batsmen 'did what they were supposed to do.' But they (the batsmen in general) were meant to do that last year too, were they not? But it virtually never happened. Barrow saved us against the same opponent at Taunton last year and, otherwise, once we entered the mire we usually sank without trace.
So it's hardly a given.
When they came together we were four down with probably about another 45 overs to go and, at that stage, Durham would have considered themselves firm favourites.
So, whether you like it or not NC and CK clearly got us out of trouble and well done to them.
So it's hardly a given.
When they came together we were four down with probably about another 45 overs to go and, at that stage, Durham would have considered themselves firm favourites.
So, whether you like it or not NC and CK clearly got us out of trouble and well done to them.
Durham captain Paul Collingwood tells BBC Newcastle that rule changes over the use of the heavy roller makes judging the state of pitches more difficult [www.bbc.co.uk]
Sorry GM, but we didn't end in a winning position, we ended in a drawing position. The batting order could have been changed to let Trego and Keiswetter have a go with some top order batsmen held back to ensure the draw. A good result from the perspective of the poor start we made with bat and ball, but being there yesterday it looked overly cautious at times, and with 15 - 20 overs to go it looked winnable. Certainly the Durham supporters near us were distinctly nervous. Arshad's bowling was top quality, but he was never really challenged.
Semantics I think NBJ. Hanging on for a draw to me means one wicket to fall and 150 to get. A winning position means 90 to get with 6 wickets in hand. In both cases a draw butwith a different feel.
Last year, this year. Semantics. Your view is no more right or wrong than mine because you can no more prove your position than I can prove mine. However, given the conditions and the game we've just seen, to suggest we were in some kind of 'mire' in the second half or this game is daft to say the least.
If this was a 'mire', many counties spend many games in it and then win.
I'm not particularly interested in your assessment of Alex Barrow in 2013. You wrote that particular batsman off almost before that season started.
Nick and Craig did what they were supposed to do. We ended the game in the stronger position needing 90 with 6 wickets in hand because the top end TOGETHER provided the base.
Our batsmen did what usually happens in many games. Two or three had a good day and others did not. I'm not interested particularly where we were at 2 down I'm far more interested in where the side is at less than 5 down. The number of overs left to do it is immaterial. The batsmen doing their jobs is the important aspect.
You seem too imply that this game was somehow rescued from ignominious defeat. It simply was not and had it run its course, on the basis of what happened in THIS game in THIS season, we would have probably walked away with the victory had we not lost 25% of the game to the weather.
You don't agree? I'll live with that. I don't need any more wonderful reasons why you are right and people who disagree are wrong thanks. Its a matter of opinion and I don't share yours and simply posted so.
If this was a 'mire', many counties spend many games in it and then win.
I'm not particularly interested in your assessment of Alex Barrow in 2013. You wrote that particular batsman off almost before that season started.
Nick and Craig did what they were supposed to do. We ended the game in the stronger position needing 90 with 6 wickets in hand because the top end TOGETHER provided the base.
Our batsmen did what usually happens in many games. Two or three had a good day and others did not. I'm not interested particularly where we were at 2 down I'm far more interested in where the side is at less than 5 down. The number of overs left to do it is immaterial. The batsmen doing their jobs is the important aspect.
You seem too imply that this game was somehow rescued from ignominious defeat. It simply was not and had it run its course, on the basis of what happened in THIS game in THIS season, we would have probably walked away with the victory had we not lost 25% of the game to the weather.
You don't agree? I'll live with that. I don't need any more wonderful reasons why you are right and people who disagree are wrong thanks. Its a matter of opinion and I don't share yours and simply posted so.
I think AGod has argued his case well and expressed it in reasoned and moderate language, except possibly his choice of the word 'mire'.
Only 50 odd days until you're back in Bicknoller Towers, Grockle. Hope you enjoy the cricket.
Only 50 odd days until you're back in Bicknoller Towers, Grockle. Hope you enjoy the cricket.
And I think I did exactly the same Bob. Thanks. See you then.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:10:01:48 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:10:01:48 by Grockle.
It seems to me we have made a very good start to the season, even if we have not won a match yet - and here are some figures to prove it.
At Taunton we scored at 55.30 per wicket compared with Yorkshire's 45.93
At Chester le Street we scored at 30.79 per wicket compared with Durham's 27.42.
Composite figures are:
Somerset: 41.00
Opposition: 35.27
That looks pretty good to me.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
At Taunton we scored at 55.30 per wicket compared with Yorkshire's 45.93
At Chester le Street we scored at 30.79 per wicket compared with Durham's 27.42.
Composite figures are:
Somerset: 41.00
Opposition: 35.27
That looks pretty good to me.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
And a lot more promising than last year one has to say.
Good to see a number of batsmen making a statement as well. Chris, Nick, Craig and the surprise I have to say for - me, Johann. I think a number of us had assumed he would be the guy we'd stick in if things got really short and he would probably be used mostly to act as a kind of seconds mentor. It is great to see him saying "you want my place well you know how to get it.."
Now if the bowlers can only hit their straps
Good to see a number of batsmen making a statement as well. Chris, Nick, Craig and the surprise I have to say for - me, Johann. I think a number of us had assumed he would be the guy we'd stick in if things got really short and he would probably be used mostly to act as a kind of seconds mentor. It is great to see him saying "you want my place well you know how to get it.."
Now if the bowlers can only hit their straps
Quote:North Berwick John
Sorry GM, but we didn't end in a winning position, we ended in a drawing position. The batting order could have been changed to let Trego and Keiswetter have a go with some top order batsmen held back to ensure the draw. A good result from the perspective of the poor start we made with bat and ball, but being there yesterday it looked overly cautious at times, and with 15 - 20 overs to go it looked winnable. Certainly the Durham supporters near us were distinctly nervous. Arshad's bowling was top quality, but he was never really challenged.
Arshad had also looked good at Northampton - looked more threatening, than Rushworth who took all those wickets last season.
"Nick and Craig did what they were supposed to do. We ended the game in the stronger position needing 90 with 6 wickets in hand because the top end TOGETHER provided the base."
The "base", was, I think, about 80 or so for 4.
That won't cut it in quite a number of games......... unless, of course, a great long partnership comes along for the next wicket or two.
More pertinently, in the context of the innings we needed to lose no more than 9 wkts over the course of, I think, about 75 overs and, after Hildreth's rush of blood, we were, I believe, 4 down after about 28 overs. So if we'd carried on losing wickets at that rate..........
The "base", was, I think, about 80 or so for 4.
That won't cut it in quite a number of games......... unless, of course, a great long partnership comes along for the next wicket or two.
More pertinently, in the context of the innings we needed to lose no more than 9 wkts over the course of, I think, about 75 overs and, after Hildreth's rush of blood, we were, I believe, 4 down after about 28 overs. So if we'd carried on losing wickets at that rate..........
Re: Myburgh, his career seems something of a mystery.
Over three seasons between (I think it was) 2007-10, he averaged 51 in first-class cricket playing for Canterbury in the NZ domestic competition. Plenty of tracks in NZ seam around and stuff, so that record suggests a fine player.
And yet, after that, he seemed to have scraped around in the Durham second XI and then been out of first-class cricket for a year. I think all of that probably contributed to any perception that some of us may have had of him that he'd be a sort of experienced reserve player.
It's very early days, but it looks as though Mr Nosworthy may have made a very good value signing (I say good value as I'm assuming he's hardly on a big bucks deal).
Over three seasons between (I think it was) 2007-10, he averaged 51 in first-class cricket playing for Canterbury in the NZ domestic competition. Plenty of tracks in NZ seam around and stuff, so that record suggests a fine player.
And yet, after that, he seemed to have scraped around in the Durham second XI and then been out of first-class cricket for a year. I think all of that probably contributed to any perception that some of us may have had of him that he'd be a sort of experienced reserve player.
It's very early days, but it looks as though Mr Nosworthy may have made a very good value signing (I say good value as I'm assuming he's hardly on a big bucks deal).
And the final thing that I'll say is about the "revised view," that we'd have been expected to win at CLS, but for the rain:
The bottom line is, it's impossible to say. As I understand it the first part of yesterday took place in sunshine, for example? Had we, instead, batted on Tuesday, it would, presumably have been heavily overcast - hence batting would, presumably, have been much more difficult?
Equally, I think one can probably say that, if Durham thought they were in a situation where SCCC were chasing a win, then Collingwood would probably not have done things such as throw Breese onto bowl when he did. From what the commentators said, after CK had tonked Breese around a fair bit, Colly approached our batsmen and had (what was presumed to be) a word, along the lines of "Do you fancy going for this lads, or shall we call it off?"
My summary of the CLS game would be: A very poor first half performance.. and a really strong second half performance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:12:25:59 by AGod.
The bottom line is, it's impossible to say. As I understand it the first part of yesterday took place in sunshine, for example? Had we, instead, batted on Tuesday, it would, presumably have been heavily overcast - hence batting would, presumably, have been much more difficult?
Equally, I think one can probably say that, if Durham thought they were in a situation where SCCC were chasing a win, then Collingwood would probably not have done things such as throw Breese onto bowl when he did. From what the commentators said, after CK had tonked Breese around a fair bit, Colly approached our batsmen and had (what was presumed to be) a word, along the lines of "Do you fancy going for this lads, or shall we call it off?"
My summary of the CLS game would be: A very poor first half performance.. and a really strong second half performance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:12:25:59 by AGod.
A situtation that can often lead, if you not out of the game after the first half, which we were not, to a win.
Doing it the other way around often leads to a defeat.
Doing it the other way around often leads to a defeat.
One also hopes that doing it this way around may allow for some momentum to be taken with us to the South Coast.
By the law of averages, we must be due to get through a game without losing one or more bowlers to injury, and that should help!!
By the law of averages, we must be due to get through a game without losing one or more bowlers to injury, and that should help!!
Yeah thanks for that extra, extra, extra stuff on why the Durham game can only be perceived as some kind of escape instead of any kind of a possible win AG. Opinions seem to differ on the validity of that point of view against other equally viable perceptions.
Durham supporters really had very little to say about Myburgh at all when I surveyed them on his appointment at Taunton. It as like he was there but not really perceived as being there. H seemed to have made no impact, hence early expectations for us. Very pleased he is with us at the moment.
Any more info on the suggestion we should tap his brother for the Blast competition after his performances for the Dutch anyone?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:14:28:24 by Grockle.
Durham supporters really had very little to say about Myburgh at all when I surveyed them on his appointment at Taunton. It as like he was there but not really perceived as being there. H seemed to have made no impact, hence early expectations for us. Very pleased he is with us at the moment.
Any more info on the suggestion we should tap his brother for the Blast competition after his performances for the Dutch anyone?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:24:14:28:24 by Grockle.
Are we really starting to get at Tres already?
He got a good start v Yorkies at home and then 2 poor scores v Durham away.
Can we at least give him more than 3 innings before writing him off again this season.
We are hardly blessed with proven 40+ average players waiting to take any of our batters places.
He got a good start v Yorkies at home and then 2 poor scores v Durham away.
Can we at least give him more than 3 innings before writing him off again this season.
We are hardly blessed with proven 40+ average players waiting to take any of our batters places.
A very pleasing start to the season in my opinion, I'm sure a good few other counties would like to be in our shoes right now.
Let's get behind the boys now and save the bickering for the close season, it makes life a lot more pleasant for all that way.
Let's get behind the boys now and save the bickering for the close season, it makes life a lot more pleasant for all that way.
WSM - it speaks volumes, I'm afraid if 20 now counts as 'good,' for our Captain.
I'd just like to stress, wsm, that in my case, my suggestion of a re-jigged order was not in any way an attempt to "get at" Tres.
I genuinely thought it presented our best strategy for this game.
I genuinely thought it presented our best strategy for this game.
And my suggestions about the theory that he should move down the order is valid only comes into play if he continues to not hit the runs in his present position.
It's a better start than last year and I'm personally happy to see him stay there as long as those making these difficult decisions believe it is the best place for him in the order
It's a better start than last year and I'm personally happy to see him stay there as long as those making these difficult decisions believe it is the best place for him in the order
I see Compo has received a two-year sentence for dissent when he was dismissed in the first innings.
How bad was his dissent? Who was there? (And how bad was the decision(?)).
How bad was his dissent? Who was there? (And how bad was the decision(?)).
Nick Compton was reported by umpires Michael Gough and David Millns during Somerset’s LV= County Championship match against Durham on 20th – 23rd April 2014, for a Level One breach of the code (showing dissent at an umpire’s decsion by word or action).
The penalty for these offences is a reprimand. These penalties will remain on their records for a period of two years and the accumulation of nine or more penalty points in any two-year period will result in an automatic suspension.
In Nick's case he only needed to stand there in disbelief when given out to get a reprimand. I think they said he wasn't happy about being given out at the time. I know it is the rules but I think the umpires are a bit to sensitive at times.
Quote:George Dobell
Compton was, therefore, unable to make much of an impression on Whitaker. He may have felt it was typical of his fortune that he was last man out, adjudged leg before to a ball he seemed to have hit really quite hard.
Thanks guys.
Tends to confirm my prejudice - over sensitive umpires who don't see their own weaknesses!
Tends to confirm my prejudice - over sensitive umpires who don't see their own weaknesses!
It was an atrocious decision. Nick indicated such but did not hang about.
Very harsh decision,
Very harsh decision,
At least he's not banned for two years, as I'd feared from your initial message Mike! I think this is like 3 pts on your licence, and you'll only get a ban (and not a two-year one) if you do it (or similar) a few more times.
My interpretation was that a level one "reprimand" didn't carry any points?
Just read on cricinfo that Colly was surprised we called off the chase when we needed 91 off 9 overs.
So am I, now I know there were that many overs left. We had two well set batsman, and CK had just hit two sixes.
Can anybody suggest why it would not have been worth a go from there?
Pretty unlikely we would have lost 6 wickets in 9 overs....
So am I, now I know there were that many overs left. We had two well set batsman, and CK had just hit two sixes.
Can anybody suggest why it would not have been worth a go from there?
Pretty unlikely we would have lost 6 wickets in 9 overs....
it was Sloop John B who first reported it , I just post in more details the ECB report on it.
I think the sixes / ten off an over had just come off a Breeze over; Onions was due back, and a new ball was due; it was still April at Chester-Le-Street!
I think we would have been very unlikely to lose, but almost equally unlikely to win. I think Colly is doing a Mourinho here, just winding people up.
I think we would have been very unlikely to lose, but almost equally unlikely to win. I think Colly is doing a Mourinho here, just winding people up.
I know the difference between CC1 and T20 but if you're hitting sixes it doesn't matter where the fielders are.
When Trigger took us to the famous 475 win v Yorks that wasn't T20 either.
I'm not suggesting we were likely to win, but there would have been an outside chance, and the rewards, and the subsequent knock-on effect on the campaign would, in my book, surely have been worth the slight risk of losing.
And someone has already posted that the home fans were getting twitchy...
When Trigger took us to the famous 475 win v Yorks that wasn't T20 either.
I'm not suggesting we were likely to win, but there would have been an outside chance, and the rewards, and the subsequent knock-on effect on the campaign would, in my book, surely have been worth the slight risk of losing.
And someone has already posted that the home fans were getting twitchy...
But, surely, CK was hitting sixes only because Breese had been brought on? (possibly to try to bait CK into a mistake)
Another failing of the side. What a shame. But I suppose someone has to point it out however hypothetical it may be. I'm sure someone weighed up the options and decided a different way Steve. It's another of those situations we'll never be able to go back and relive so you can criticise it or understand it but not change it either way.
One thing however, the game at Durham was very little like the Yorkshire game. We went for that much earlier, when Justin sent Stiff in at 4 and we only continued because of the inspired brilliance of one player who was.not going to be denied on that particular day. It was Pete ' game, everybody knew it and they don't come around every season or every time a side chase a total.
One thing however, the game at Durham was very little like the Yorkshire game. We went for that much earlier, when Justin sent Stiff in at 4 and we only continued because of the inspired brilliance of one player who was.not going to be denied on that particular day. It was Pete ' game, everybody knew it and they don't come around every season or every time a side chase a total.
Why do invitations to comment so often get interpreted as criticism on here?
I didn't suggest a 'failing of the side', just wondered why we didn't have a little dabble having built a position that was enough to make the Durham fans nervous.
I don't think it makes a great deal of difference who the sixes were off. If Breeze was trying to bait CK suggests they were getting nervous too.
Momentum can quickly shift, and so can pressure. One big over and who knows what can happen in a 9 over sprint.
Not disappointed, not criticising anyone, just wondered.
Why is that a shame Grockle?.
I didn't suggest a 'failing of the side', just wondered why we didn't have a little dabble having built a position that was enough to make the Durham fans nervous.
I don't think it makes a great deal of difference who the sixes were off. If Breeze was trying to bait CK suggests they were getting nervous too.
Momentum can quickly shift, and so can pressure. One big over and who knows what can happen in a 9 over sprint.
Not disappointed, not criticising anyone, just wondered.
Why is that a shame Grockle?.
You're right, SteveCav - momentum can shifty quickly BUT it's a two-way street. And with a brand new ball it was probably more likely that it would shift Durham's way, IMO, should we have lost a couple of quick wickets hitting out (trying to score 10 an over).
Let's face it, if we lost a couple of wickets in Onion's first over with the new ball due to trying to hit the cover of it, then we'd be six down and Collingwood would then be most unlikely to agree to walk off, and we'd have to bat out the 8 overs.
Let's face it, if we lost a couple of wickets in Onion's first over with the new ball due to trying to hit the cover of it, then we'd be six down and Collingwood would then be most unlikely to agree to walk off, and we'd have to bat out the 8 overs.
I'm absolutely with AG's assessment here.
I feel that the opportunity to "go for it" (if indeed there was one) had already been missed by this point, and that Craig's sixes simply blurred that fact.
I feel that the opportunity to "go for it" (if indeed there was one) had already been missed by this point, and that Craig's sixes simply blurred that fact.
Yes AGod I agree with all that. I personally think it was no MORE likely we'd lose 6 wickets in 9 than we'd get 90 off nine. so in my book, worth a little punt especially given the points difference in those two.
Still as Grockle says, as the outcome can't be changed now, there's no point in wondering why those that matter saw it differently.
Still as Grockle says, as the outcome can't be changed now, there's no point in wondering why those that matter saw it differently.
It tends to be interpreted that way when it is perceived as a regular trait of a particular poster Steve. Apologies if I interpreted it in the wrong way. You have been mostly critical of the side this season though certainly open to argument. I misinterpreted it seems.
Though I certainly don't see how your question about us going for a 90 odd total in 9 overs could be interpreted as a 'little dabble'. It seemed much more of a comment on something you saw as more definite winning opportunity lost because we didn't decide to hit out. If that was the perception then to you that would be a shame.
You also did seem disappointed though tone in text is always difficult. A big over may have been possible, a three wicket bad over could also have been possible. It seems the powers that be decided not to take your chance.
It's a point of view. I don't know why it was decided another way and I doubt anyone here can answer your question so if it was just a question and not a comment on something you personally weren't particularly happy about, what was the answer you expected from people not involved in the discussions or decisions about Somerset's endgame plan?
Though I certainly don't see how your question about us going for a 90 odd total in 9 overs could be interpreted as a 'little dabble'. It seemed much more of a comment on something you saw as more definite winning opportunity lost because we didn't decide to hit out. If that was the perception then to you that would be a shame.
You also did seem disappointed though tone in text is always difficult. A big over may have been possible, a three wicket bad over could also have been possible. It seems the powers that be decided not to take your chance.
It's a point of view. I don't know why it was decided another way and I doubt anyone here can answer your question so if it was just a question and not a comment on something you personally weren't particularly happy about, what was the answer you expected from people not involved in the discussions or decisions about Somerset's endgame plan?
I think the extra 2 points for a draw this season would have a say in the decision too
I was there. The light was very gloomy. Collingwood brought on Borthwick, Breese and himself, presumably because the umpires had suggested if he had contin ued to bowl the ast bowlers they'd take them off - at that stage Colingwood was still hopeful of getting those final 6 wickets.
Had Somerset chosen to stay out thre when the draw was ofered you can be pretty sure Collingwood would yhave brought back two of Rushworth, Onions, Harrison and Arshad.
Best case scenario I could have predicted then would be that these bowlers would have been fr more difficult to score off (Onions had looked a ittle jaded earlier in the afternon and I suspect Colly would have chosen Harrison or Arshad to bowl with Rushworth).
Alternatively in the fading light Somerset could easily have lost wickets. If memory serves me I have seen Somerset lose 6 wickets in 9 overs on more occasions than I have seen them make >90 runs in 9 overs in CC cricket.
Of course it is also possible had Collingwood brought back the fast bowlers the umpires would have halted play due to the bad light.
At the start of the day - indeed any time in the match from about tea on day 1 - if you had offered me the draw I'd have bitten off limbs. Yes, I admit to a bit of a 'what if' feeling immediately after the match had finished, but Somerset go into their final CC match of April undefeated. A darn sigt better than a year ago.
Had Somerset chosen to stay out thre when the draw was ofered you can be pretty sure Collingwood would yhave brought back two of Rushworth, Onions, Harrison and Arshad.
Best case scenario I could have predicted then would be that these bowlers would have been fr more difficult to score off (Onions had looked a ittle jaded earlier in the afternon and I suspect Colly would have chosen Harrison or Arshad to bowl with Rushworth).
Alternatively in the fading light Somerset could easily have lost wickets. If memory serves me I have seen Somerset lose 6 wickets in 9 overs on more occasions than I have seen them make >90 runs in 9 overs in CC cricket.
Of course it is also possible had Collingwood brought back the fast bowlers the umpires would have halted play due to the bad light.
At the start of the day - indeed any time in the match from about tea on day 1 - if you had offered me the draw I'd have bitten off limbs. Yes, I admit to a bit of a 'what if' feeling immediately after the match had finished, but Somerset go into their final CC match of April undefeated. A darn sigt better than a year ago.
Yep it certainly would have been taken into account. But FE is also probably hitting nails on heads. We would have gone earlier if we'd been going.
The Yorkshire match saw a side much more confident in its power against an attack we thought we could get on top of (and did). The seasons since that destruction have been a little less kind to our confidence relating to batting capability.
Steve's comment about the effect a win would have had is quite correct. A loss while attempting it would also have had a significant effect and maybe we aren't ready to put ourselves in that situation yet.
A solid start in 2014 may contribute as a long term stabaliser that might mean we may gamble if in a situation similar later in the season.. who knows
The Yorkshire match saw a side much more confident in its power against an attack we thought we could get on top of (and did). The seasons since that destruction have been a little less kind to our confidence relating to batting capability.
Steve's comment about the effect a win would have had is quite correct. A loss while attempting it would also have had a significant effect and maybe we aren't ready to put ourselves in that situation yet.
A solid start in 2014 may contribute as a long term stabaliser that might mean we may gamble if in a situation similar later in the season.. who knows
I tend to believe that the path to becoming a winning side starts with becoming difficult to beat (something that we were not in 2013).
In addition to Bagpuss's eye-witness account, we also have GM's post in which he said of our approach to the day as a whole (if I remember correctly):
"It was never a chasing wicket but there was a game there to be lost."
In addition to Bagpuss's eye-witness account, we also have GM's post in which he said of our approach to the day as a whole (if I remember correctly):
"It was never a chasing wicket but there was a game there to be lost."
Apology accepted Grockle! I shall remember this day!
2 or 3 overs to see where it got us would have been 'a little dabble' It didn't have to be black or white - go for it for 9 overs or not at all did it?
From now on I shall endeavour to correct your perception that I have been 'mostly critical of the side this season'.
I have certainly questioned a few things, specifically why we fielded v Yorks, Hildy's misjudgment 2nd ball the other day, why we are where we are with our bowling assets, and, today, why we didn't have the 'little dabble'.
Away from 'the side' I admit to having been critical of Ashley Giles but I don't think many will hold that against me.
I think if you look at my 'critical' posts Grockle you will see they are usually framed as observations inviting comment either for or against. Except for the Giles ones of course.
And I think I am far more likely to be persuaded and influenced to a change of view by those I see as better informed than I am, than are some others on here.
I joined this forum because I thought it was for exchange of views between SUPPORTERS of SCCC, as a result of which I might learn something.
I didn't expect so much defensiveness, but I'm learning!
2 or 3 overs to see where it got us would have been 'a little dabble' It didn't have to be black or white - go for it for 9 overs or not at all did it?
From now on I shall endeavour to correct your perception that I have been 'mostly critical of the side this season'.
I have certainly questioned a few things, specifically why we fielded v Yorks, Hildy's misjudgment 2nd ball the other day, why we are where we are with our bowling assets, and, today, why we didn't have the 'little dabble'.
Away from 'the side' I admit to having been critical of Ashley Giles but I don't think many will hold that against me.
I think if you look at my 'critical' posts Grockle you will see they are usually framed as observations inviting comment either for or against. Except for the Giles ones of course.
And I think I am far more likely to be persuaded and influenced to a change of view by those I see as better informed than I am, than are some others on here.
I joined this forum because I thought it was for exchange of views between SUPPORTERS of SCCC, as a result of which I might learn something.
I didn't expect so much defensiveness, but I'm learning!
Interesting report Bagpuss.
We clearly did well from a difficult position at one point, but I wonder if we played positively enough up until tea on the last day ?
Tricky balance & of course the side would have been haranged if they had crumbled, but I just wonder if we had ticked things along a little quicker during the day, whether we could have pulled it off ?
(Alternatively, we could have knocked 40 off our target by not bowling no balls. Sorry, a pet hate of mine !).
What do you reckon ?
Grizzzly
We clearly did well from a difficult position at one point, but I wonder if we played positively enough up until tea on the last day ?
Tricky balance & of course the side would have been haranged if they had crumbled, but I just wonder if we had ticked things along a little quicker during the day, whether we could have pulled it off ?
(Alternatively, we could have knocked 40 off our target by not bowling no balls. Sorry, a pet hate of mine !).
What do you reckon ?
Grizzzly
Sorry - I did a rather 'Daily Sun' headline in saying Compo had been given two years!! (But it did stir some debate!).
His points stay on his licence for two years and another misdemeanour could lead to a ban.
Btw - where are we on the points on Banger's licence for someone else in the team misbehaving?? (About two years ago(ish))? There was talk at the time of Banger being banned if there was another incident.
His points stay on his licence for two years and another misdemeanour could lead to a ban.
Btw - where are we on the points on Banger's licence for someone else in the team misbehaving?? (About two years ago(ish))? There was talk at the time of Banger being banned if there was another incident.
Whilst I hate the no-balls as much as you do, Grizzly, because Colly declared their second innings, we can't be certain that bowling fewer no-balls would have reduced our target, as their last pair may have batted on for longer!
'2 or 3 overs' was certainly not what your initial post suggested Steve. It really read as 'why didn't we go for the win?' But there you go. We've said it a lot Interpretation is in the eye of the reader.
When 'observations' are 'Why didn't we..', 'So and so made a mistake' 'I am a half empty observer' and so forth you can possibly understand why the perception may occur that criticism is going to be mainly the theme. Over time that perception may change.
Your view of things may be why you identify others who disagree as them being 'defensive'. For example, I am not 'defending' the side's decision not to go for the win. I don't have to. I simply don't agree with your perception of the position and thanks to Bagpuss for adding some information which makes me more sure that the actions you were surprised did not happen did not happen for sensible reasons.
Maybe that clarification was what you were looking for and had the 'question' been couched more as an enquiry as to why we didn't go for it than it was. Who knows.
I have no idea why your last post has the word 'supporters' in capitals... is the site not what you expected it to be? Are you inferring that people here are not supporters of the club or this is NOT a supporters site?
Alternative views are fine but if you make them surely you should be willing to discuss them and not see any opposition to them as 'criticism' or if that seems to be what happens then willing to clarify and bring the discussion down to a different and more constructive level.
This stuff is rarely carved in stone and the ones who have trouble on Grockles tend to be the ones who only have one view, are unwilling to see another side and take their view as the one that has to be refuted because of its clear truth.
You, early days I know, don't strike me as that kind of poster. However inferences on your posts that an apology from me is something of an event well,,, who can say.
Maybe your perception of me is not correct either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:25:21:35:21 by Grockle.
When 'observations' are 'Why didn't we..', 'So and so made a mistake' 'I am a half empty observer' and so forth you can possibly understand why the perception may occur that criticism is going to be mainly the theme. Over time that perception may change.
Your view of things may be why you identify others who disagree as them being 'defensive'. For example, I am not 'defending' the side's decision not to go for the win. I don't have to. I simply don't agree with your perception of the position and thanks to Bagpuss for adding some information which makes me more sure that the actions you were surprised did not happen did not happen for sensible reasons.
Maybe that clarification was what you were looking for and had the 'question' been couched more as an enquiry as to why we didn't go for it than it was. Who knows.
I have no idea why your last post has the word 'supporters' in capitals... is the site not what you expected it to be? Are you inferring that people here are not supporters of the club or this is NOT a supporters site?
Alternative views are fine but if you make them surely you should be willing to discuss them and not see any opposition to them as 'criticism' or if that seems to be what happens then willing to clarify and bring the discussion down to a different and more constructive level.
This stuff is rarely carved in stone and the ones who have trouble on Grockles tend to be the ones who only have one view, are unwilling to see another side and take their view as the one that has to be refuted because of its clear truth.
You, early days I know, don't strike me as that kind of poster. However inferences on your posts that an apology from me is something of an event well,,, who can say.
Maybe your perception of me is not correct either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:04:25:21:35:21 by Grockle.
I think Bagpuss is right about the situation with around 10 overs to go - Collingwood was being very cute in his choice of bowlers and the ends they bowled at, and the chance of a win at that stage was small. The best chance for us to win had been passed up by not putting either/both Keiswetter/Trego higher up the order and letting them rip, with say Compton/Hildreth/Pietersen held back to save the draw. Durham would only have got a very few overs with the ball - so it would not have been a major factor - this is noted on the Cricinfo report, which criticises Collingwood for batting too long thus negating the new ball effect.
I have to say that the Durham folk near me never assumed a run chase after Collingwood had taken the first hour out
They were highly critical- believing that while he didn't have enough to declare overnight, he should have only taken about half an hour.
They were highly critical- believing that while he didn't have enough to declare overnight, he should have only taken about half an hour.
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