Somerset
(Get) Stuck in(to) the Middle
By Grockle et al
April 25 2015
Now, has Matthew had enough time to sort out whatever it was that was the problem this time about 8 days ago as we crashed and burned against Durham in the usual blow par first performance of a cricket season? Nick Compton is back tomorrow and we'd like to show him our new outfit and have him be impressed by the way we'vesorted out his absence and other things. I'd also like to read postive comments abut our batting on my own website if you don't mind Mr M!!
v Middlesex CC1 @ TAUNTON Sunday 26 April 2015
Start to the season mark 2. Three changes to the side as Alfonso returns from his IPL mentoring, Tom Abell is called in and Craig Overton is given permission to go on Unicorn duty with Devon. So what side will Matthew and Marcus have put together for Middlesex and Compo?
Well don't get too excited because it's highly unlikely to be all that different.. Johann Myburgh has laid a marker down that he will not give up the opening position without a fight with his debut ton against Durham - one of the few positives in that game. You would expect him to open with the skipper, and the skipper will open. It is doubtful that Tom Cooper will move from three after a decent start to his Somerset career in the first game. It is also unlikley however that Tom Abell has been named unless he will play - there is no real reason to call him back if there is no intention. Will he take the fourth position? James started his summer with a half ton but didn't capitalise on it and everything fell to bits in the second innings. Maybe James will more to 5 or Tom will follow him in?
A number of people did suggest that Jim Allenby was probably coming in one position too early and that would allow him to come in at 6 pushing Pete Trego back to 7. Those two could also be interchangeable depending on the demands of the game at that point in time. Alex is then 8? But how do we then get Lewis, Abdur, Alf and Tim in? I am assuming that Thomas has not just been included as a name with a dodgy ankle and he is ready to start his CC1 campaign
Who will step down? Will we play without a spinner? Or is Tim going to give way to Alfonso? Does anyone not expect Lewis to play? No Jamie Overton? He looked hostile at times during the first match but didn't break through. After many coonversations about batting depth, will the place have to be found at the front of the order? Will Allenby and Trego be in a fight for the batting seam allrounder? Presently, if that is the case, I'd expect Pete to win it. But for how long? Will James and Tom A be fighting for that number 4 spot (I personally doubt it).
So despite our supposedly 'threadbare' batting according to Anthony Gibson on commentary some two weeks ago, we have fights on for spaces. Is the problem too much quantity and not enough quality? Or is Somerset healthy in this aspect than expected. A coouple of injuries could make a real difference but not at the moment. Two will miss out tomorrow and in 12 hours we will know. I think it will be Tim and/or Abdur unless my asssumption about Tom A is incorrect. Will we really get him to come up from Exeter just before his exams if we have no intention of picking him and are all the people in our present front 6 more likely to make runs than he is? I'd suggest he could be compared significantly with 3 of our present top 6 but I'm not going to tell you who!!
Anyway, the game starts in 12 and a half hours. Information is that parking could be difficult because the Priory Bridge car park has some visitors from over the water who may be unwilling to share their squatting rights with cricket supporters. Whoever takes the pitch however MUST put up a more spirited performance than 60 to 80% of the Somerset unit who turned out for the last one. Middlesex will not relish the visit and we have to confirm their worst fears. This has to be our day and not theirs.
Myburgh has been given a bye to be with his wife for the birth of their child and Alfonso is NOT ready yet ( I do hope this is not going to be a Steve Kirby type injury where he never get on the pitch during the season). Tom Abell opens with the Boss and Tim Groenewald takes up the Alf role as Abdur and Jamie Overton both play.
Presently Marcus is 115 and James is with him after a 202 run partnership for the third wicket at 253 for 2 in 51 overs. Hilda is looking at 3 figures with 98. Oh THIS is considerably better.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 25/04/2015 19:30
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25/04/2015 19:30
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Nick Compton makes a rapid return to the County Ground in the Middlesex squad of 13 for Sunday`s championship match. Injury absentees are batsman Dawid Malan and bowler Toby Roland-Jones, both of whom usually do well against Somerset.
Squad: Voges (c), Compton, Dexter, Gubbins, Finn, Franklin, Harris, Murtagh, Podmore, Rayner, Robson, Simpson and Stirling.
Squad: Voges (c), Compton, Dexter, Gubbins, Finn, Franklin, Harris, Murtagh, Podmore, Rayner, Robson, Simpson and Stirling.
Will Somerset have Baron Trescothick, Earl Trego, Viscount Hildreth or Lord Gregory in their starting XI?
According to Richard Walsh in today's 'Western Morning News',
Somerset have added Tom Abell and Alfonso Thomas to the team that played in the Durham game two weeks ago.
Somerset (from): Trescothick (capt), Abell, Allenby, Barrow, Cooper, Gregory, Groenewald, Hildreth, Myburgh, J Overton, Rehman, Thomas, Trego.
No mention of any team selection on the official site so far though.
Somerset have added Tom Abell and Alfonso Thomas to the team that played in the Durham game two weeks ago.
Somerset (from): Trescothick (capt), Abell, Allenby, Barrow, Cooper, Gregory, Groenewald, Hildreth, Myburgh, J Overton, Rehman, Thomas, Trego.
No mention of any team selection on the official site so far though.
They can't all. I'd assume they will bring Abell in if they include him so it will be a bit of a ponder for the men in charge.
What a present lack of depth we are struggling with in the top 6 eh?
Let's hope they perform better with a week to get things sorted
What a present lack of depth we are struggling with in the top 6 eh?
Let's hope they perform better with a week to get things sorted
Disappointed not to see Craig Overton's name in the squad. Apologies if I've missed it elsewhere but does anyone know how long he's likely to be out for?
Abell back does improve the batting depth but I don't think our batting line up last week was that bad, we just as usual, seem to have a few chronically out of form early-season. Hopefully better to come this week.
Abell back does improve the batting depth but I don't think our batting line up last week was that bad, we just as usual, seem to have a few chronically out of form early-season. Hopefully better to come this week.
Yes you'd think with all the prep done we'd have sorted this "coming into the first game half cooked" thing by now. It isn't like it's the first time this has happened. Let's hope we've put some more heat under the squad and they are steaming to get on the field tomorrow and do this one right.
9th brother Dredge - according to the Devon CCC website, Craig Overton has been released to play for Devon in their Unicorns Cup game against Wales on Sunday.
There is only room for about 25 cars in the free Priory Bridge Road car park as Irish travellers have taken over the bulk of the space.
Thanks Rod,
Hopefully he's not too far away from a first class return then, Craig at his best balances the bowling and batting of the side, I'm guessing he's just short of a gallop or two.
Hopefully he's not too far away from a first class return then, Craig at his best balances the bowling and batting of the side, I'm guessing he's just short of a gallop or two.
It would be so nice to see us 100-0 after 30 overs in our first innings.
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Looks very much a bowling morning.Damp and overcast for at least the whole morning.Best weather looks like tomorrow.
Dry all day, bat first, get through morning then after lunch and tomorrow looks sunny.
Pretty sure they'll stick with same top 8. Maybe Alf comes in for JO or Tim, but hope JO gets another run out, he's our different weapon.
Pretty sure they'll stick with same top 8. Maybe Alf comes in for JO or Tim, but hope JO gets another run out, he's our different weapon.
Lost the toss and batting.No Thomas or Myburgh. Tom Abell opening with Tres
Not sure what Johann did wrong to lose his place to be honest. Wasn't sure that Alf was fit when he was named. They were doubtful for him in relation to the first 3 matches I believe, part of the reason the mentoring chance was considered.
Tom gone and Coop in quick succession.
Tom gone and Coop in quick succession.
[quote Grockle]Not sure what Johann did wrong to lose his place to be honest.
According to Cricinfo, his wife is expecting a baby.
According to Cricinfo, his wife is expecting a baby.
During the Durham game someone told me she was due in a fortnight, so just about right now
Well he obviously did something right in order NOT to play. Decent reason I suppose. Also explains why Tom was called back.
I have just seen the score for the first time today. Centuries for MT and JH - I strongly suspect that the spectators have been royally entertained.
Good afternoon, and happy new season to all. This is my first post of the season, as I was intending to stay off this forum until something exciting was happening. Looks like that's now. Could it be the old man is back? I do hope so. It all looked bleak during and after the Durham game, and MM's 'we didn't execute our skills for long enough' took the biscuit. Perhaps better times ahead after all...
Quote:Grizzzly
It would be so nice to see us 100-0 after 30 overs in our first innings.
Grizzzly
Although a tea score of 317-3 after 65 overs (at 4.87/over having been over 5.5/over at 250 runs) is not bad either.
Biggest 3 wicket partnership against Middlesex ever! We did do some work in the week off then!! Well done skipper and well done Hilda
Congrats to the skipper and the vice skipper on their tons today. We are going to need them to get plenty more, to allow the others to play around them, in the rest of the season, but this is exactly what we needed today
Well done Hildreth and Trescothick.
Calypso, Collapso now with 3 ducks from the first 6 dismissals.
Calypso, Collapso now with 3 ducks from the first 6 dismissals.
Well, that's a very pleasant surprise to wake up to !
Well done Marcus ! That will surely give him a huge boost.
Good to see James continuing his encouraging early season form.
Just as well those two did the business by the looks of the latest score, but I guess we would have settled for 404-8 at the start of play.
Grizzzly
Well done Marcus ! That will surely give him a huge boost.
Good to see James continuing his encouraging early season form.
Just as well those two did the business by the looks of the latest score, but I guess we would have settled for 404-8 at the start of play.
Grizzzly
I'm afraid I just can't see what Groenwald brings to the party. A journeyman cricketer with a poor batting average and a bowling average not much better, it seems to me that he is keeping one of our promising youngsters out of the side. (He'll probably now take 7 wickets for damn all when the Sex bat!)
5 ducks. Not that many in our butcher's window! Well batted Skip and Vice Skip.
Yep great as today has been for the men we need to do this, the rest do not seem to have learned a lot this week. Ref Tim G you may be right sir, with Lewis Craig, Alf and Jamie fit I can't see us picking him regularly for 4 day stuff. There's Adam Dibble as well this season isn't there?
A little harsh on Tim Groenewald IMO Angell Face. I am not sure at the moment which of "our promising youngsters" he is keeping out of the side. Adam Dibble has not played for the First team since 2013, and Craig Overton is deemed not to be fully match fit.
He is no more a "journeyman cricketer" than Ben Phillips or Steve Kirby to name but two, and his First Class record (batting and bowling) compares favourably with theirs - neither of whom I rated highly.
He was signed by us as cover for a period until our "promising youngsters" stepped up to become First Team regulars in their own right. Some of them have not done so, and some of them never will.
When Craig Overton is fully fit, then I consider that it should be his brother who steps down for him, and not Tim Groenewald.
He is no more a "journeyman cricketer" than Ben Phillips or Steve Kirby to name but two, and his First Class record (batting and bowling) compares favourably with theirs - neither of whom I rated highly.
He was signed by us as cover for a period until our "promising youngsters" stepped up to become First Team regulars in their own right. Some of them have not done so, and some of them never will.
When Craig Overton is fully fit, then I consider that it should be his brother who steps down for him, and not Tim Groenewald.
It may not, Grockle, but having seen him bowl already this year, I personally still have doubts over Jamie's bowling.
He should be marching forward, not regressing or even marking time. I would love to see the coaches getting his bowling back to where it was a couple of years ago.
I can but hope. Perhaps tomorrow will be the day that marks a change in his, and the club's, fortunes.
He should be marching forward, not regressing or even marking time. I would love to see the coaches getting his bowling back to where it was a couple of years ago.
I can but hope. Perhaps tomorrow will be the day that marks a change in his, and the club's, fortunes.
Am I turning into Nigel Farage if I say how much it pleases me that our two centurions today are much respected genuinely home-grown players?
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Would've been happy with 408 at the start, but not in those circumstances. Excellent work from Tres and James - I see James Harris says the ball did a bit more once the sun came out, while Tres says this has more pace in it than usual. Make of that what you like - would like to think we're well in this, and hope Rehman will get a bit more help later.
I've always had you down as a Farage type, LoL, though I always thought the homegrown was more of a Welsh thing....they's all doing it in the valleys butt.
Some superb performances with bat and ball today, a few disappointments, but hey-ho, such is life.
This has all the makings of a cracking match.
Some superb performances with bat and ball today, a few disappointments, but hey-ho, such is life.
This has all the makings of a cracking match.
Been away for a week and just got back.
First thoughts are that let's hope this game closely resembles the game at Hove last season in which there was only one significant partnership in the match (in that case one between Tresco and Petersen), rather than resembling our most recent home game in which an unholy collapse from a position of considerable promise conceded the initiative.
Hildreth is saying that the track is already turning, so that should offer scope for Rehman although one fears that Wednesday's forecast weather is likely to have the final say.
I still think that Mr Maynard has got the theoretical balance of the side wrong ESPECIALLY if Simon Lee and co are going to succeed in the aim of preparing turning tracks (as Hildreth suggests they have on this occasion.)
Obviously, with Mrs Myburgh's situation, Somerset could not have picked five main batsman for this game, even had MM wanted to. However, as I understand it, Tom Abell would again have not been selected had not Mrs Myburgh had an appointment with a mid-wife. If you have an international spinner playing on a pitch that has probably been designed to turn, you simply don't need five seam and swing bowlers in your XI. There's no reason why Pete Trego cannot bowl first change, and Jim Allenby second change, IMO, if you have a guy like Rehman in your team.
First thoughts are that let's hope this game closely resembles the game at Hove last season in which there was only one significant partnership in the match (in that case one between Tresco and Petersen), rather than resembling our most recent home game in which an unholy collapse from a position of considerable promise conceded the initiative.
Hildreth is saying that the track is already turning, so that should offer scope for Rehman although one fears that Wednesday's forecast weather is likely to have the final say.
I still think that Mr Maynard has got the theoretical balance of the side wrong ESPECIALLY if Simon Lee and co are going to succeed in the aim of preparing turning tracks (as Hildreth suggests they have on this occasion.)
Obviously, with Mrs Myburgh's situation, Somerset could not have picked five main batsman for this game, even had MM wanted to. However, as I understand it, Tom Abell would again have not been selected had not Mrs Myburgh had an appointment with a mid-wife. If you have an international spinner playing on a pitch that has probably been designed to turn, you simply don't need five seam and swing bowlers in your XI. There's no reason why Pete Trego cannot bowl first change, and Jim Allenby second change, IMO, if you have a guy like Rehman in your team.
Day one photos.
The scorecard total looks ok, but not when you look at it in detail.
With two batsmen scoring 327 out of 408 there is room for improvement.
Tom Abell started well enough and then he decided to leave this ball from Tim Murtagh.
Tom Cooper was not happy at being given out lbw off the bowling of James Harris, he was looking at his bat while walking off.
James Hildreth at his best today, pulling out all the shots like this four.
I need some help with this player, he dropped James Hildreth early on in his innings after looking like he had it covered.
And then spilled the catch.
Marcus Trescothick also played a very good innings today, I don't think he gave a chance until he was out. He played and missed a few off Finn when he was trying to hit him for runs and then settled down again.
That's the smile I like to see from Marcus, this hug coming up was for his 100 runs.
James Hildreth also got a hug for his 100
They don't all hug this hand shake was for his 150.
The scorecard total looks ok, but not when you look at it in detail.
With two batsmen scoring 327 out of 408 there is room for improvement.
Tom Abell started well enough and then he decided to leave this ball from Tim Murtagh.
Tom Cooper was not happy at being given out lbw off the bowling of James Harris, he was looking at his bat while walking off.
James Hildreth at his best today, pulling out all the shots like this four.
I need some help with this player, he dropped James Hildreth early on in his innings after looking like he had it covered.
And then spilled the catch.
Marcus Trescothick also played a very good innings today, I don't think he gave a chance until he was out. He played and missed a few off Finn when he was trying to hit him for runs and then settled down again.
That's the smile I like to see from Marcus, this hug coming up was for his 100 runs.
James Hildreth also got a hug for his 100
They don't all hug this hand shake was for his 150.
Great photos, Mike, for which many thanks.
FYI - on the official site, it says that both JH and MT were in fact dropped by Middx. I guess Middx must have gone from totally crest-fallen, having dropped both men and then watched a massive stand betwixt them, to quite significantly relieved, by day's end, that they weren't facing a 350-375 run type mountain, just to save the follow-on.
FYI - on the official site, it says that both JH and MT were in fact dropped by Middx. I guess Middx must have gone from totally crest-fallen, having dropped both men and then watched a massive stand betwixt them, to quite significantly relieved, by day's end, that they weren't facing a 350-375 run type mountain, just to save the follow-on.
What a great day, all the Tres bashers gone a bit quiet now!?
Yes it could/should have been better but 400+ runs and 10 wickets in a day, that's entertainment.
Tres was absolutely top class today, shots all around the wicket, that trademark stand and deliver was back, who needs to move your feet when you have an eye like his, so destructive.
Hildy too was superb, absolute pleasure to watch when he plays like that, so positive.
At 11am under very cloudy skies having been put in who seriously would not have taken 408ao, and with the game so advanced we have extra time than normal to get these 20 wickets.
If we can just chip away tomorrow, every chance of bowling them out tomorrow for a 75/100 run lead.
They have to bat last v Abdur, we have the runs on the board too, great day boys.
Yes it could/should have been better but 400+ runs and 10 wickets in a day, that's entertainment.
Tres was absolutely top class today, shots all around the wicket, that trademark stand and deliver was back, who needs to move your feet when you have an eye like his, so destructive.
Hildy too was superb, absolute pleasure to watch when he plays like that, so positive.
At 11am under very cloudy skies having been put in who seriously would not have taken 408ao, and with the game so advanced we have extra time than normal to get these 20 wickets.
If we can just chip away tomorrow, every chance of bowling them out tomorrow for a 75/100 run lead.
They have to bat last v Abdur, we have the runs on the board too, great day boys.
nelliec, James was on 49 when the catch was dropped.
Mike and I both remarked at various stages about the bounce that the Middlesex spinners were getting. I imagine Abdur may have been interested.
Re Cooper's dismissal, I was convinced that I heard a bat sound before the pad sound. He was not happy, but accepted it very professionally.
I haven't sat next to Mike before, and it was fascinating to see the professional way he works throughout the day, recording all the photos that he wishes to keep. Thank goodness for digital photography, and thanks Mike, for all your hard work. For exiles like myself who can rarely get down to HQ his photos really bring matches alive.
Mike and I both remarked at various stages about the bounce that the Middlesex spinners were getting. I imagine Abdur may have been interested.
Re Cooper's dismissal, I was convinced that I heard a bat sound before the pad sound. He was not happy, but accepted it very professionally.
I haven't sat next to Mike before, and it was fascinating to see the professional way he works throughout the day, recording all the photos that he wishes to keep. Thank goodness for digital photography, and thanks Mike, for all your hard work. For exiles like myself who can rarely get down to HQ his photos really bring matches alive.
Thanks for your very good company today, sitting next to you almost made me forget about the bitterly cold weather (almost).
If Adam Voges was getting plenty of bounce then that really may bode well.
Ollie Rayner getting bounce does not, in and of itself, signify that much, given that he is about 6'6 and so would usually expect to extract bounce from most surfaces.
Ollie Rayner getting bounce does not, in and of itself, signify that much, given that he is about 6'6 and so would usually expect to extract bounce from most surfaces.
Im not bitter but Tres fails and many slate him and call for his head, he plays an innings like that and it barely gets a mention! Well I enjoyed it anyway!
56th first class ton for Marcus and 32nd for James, great to watch both in full flow.
Every confidence for tomorrow. However today was constructed its never easy facing a 1st innings score of 400, Rehman and Jove key for me.
Finn was wayward today but when he did get it straight a few balls caused real trouble.
Keep it tight first hour and pressure will build, we know Nick unlikely to score quite at 4+ runs an over like today!
56th first class ton for Marcus and 32nd for James, great to watch both in full flow.
Every confidence for tomorrow. However today was constructed its never easy facing a 1st innings score of 400, Rehman and Jove key for me.
Finn was wayward today but when he did get it straight a few balls caused real trouble.
Keep it tight first hour and pressure will build, we know Nick unlikely to score quite at 4+ runs an over like today!
Totally agree WSM, there were lots of positives to take from today, though as we know too well, some will always see the dark side....whilst others....well, maybe we're as bad.
Just different.
Here's to a great few days, a humiliation in the polls for all the "major" parties and a huge uprising from the north and west.
Innit.
Bois bach.
Just different.
Here's to a great few days, a humiliation in the polls for all the "major" parties and a huge uprising from the north and west.
Innit.
Bois bach.
The scorecard looks odd. Splendid knocks from Marcus and James. Were those who were there able to confirm the old MArcus of beloved memory.
Yep, that was the best I have seen Marcus play for a while and long may it continue.
You know what, I'm sick of the spin option. Dan Cullen springs to mind.
In Thomas, Gregory and Trego we have the best swing bowlers around, prepare the pitch for those men.
In Thomas, Gregory and Trego we have the best swing bowlers around, prepare the pitch for those men.
Morning, Bobs.
JS Bach was the better known of the two, but his brother, Bois, was a frightfully good, award winning sausage maker.
I thought you knew that, mun.
A lovely day beckons, perfect for skittling those city slicking softies.
JS Bach was the better known of the two, but his brother, Bois, was a frightfully good, award winning sausage maker.
I thought you knew that, mun.
A lovely day beckons, perfect for skittling those city slicking softies.
Re: the comments on this thread about Craig Overton and which person he might replace as and when he is deemed to be match-fit and, in particular the comments about his twin:
I think the comment – expressed, I think it was, by WSM (but apologies to him if not) that Jamie Overton is a “weapon,” and the view expressed possibly by somebody else that he is the guy that “gives us something different,” is precisely the biggest problem for Jamie Overton and, I suspect, for many other bowlers of his ilk over the years.
I feel (and fear) that club management in recent times have looked at Jamie and reached exactly the same sort of conclusion “He can give us something others can’t,’ but that the outcome that has flowed from that has largely been that Jamie appears to have been asked to play some sort of “enforcer role,” with very little conspicuous success, it has to be said.
In my view, an analogy can be drawn with Stuart Broad. A lot of enforcer type clap-trap used to be bandied about re: Broad in the international set-up. IMO, he became a more successful bowler when he started to worry less about acting out a role and started to concentrate more on the fundamentals of successful bowling i.e. line, length and movement.
I’ve seen Jamie Overton bowl a number of spells for Somerset in CC cricket. I have formed the view that he clearly has (or at least had at one time) a fine yorker in his arsenal. I can’t say that I’ve ever really seen him authentically bounce out a specialist batsman, however. And because he has often, IMO, plugged away on something short of a “Caddick length,” he has tended to not pose much of a threat to batsmen via movement either.
By far the best spell of bowling I have seen from Jamie came in an otherwise unsuccessful 40 over game for Somerset at Lord’s. Presumably , any “enforcement entreaties,” either do not apply or are toned down in short form cricket. What Jamie did that day was to pitch the ball up and swing it at high pace. In my opinion, this should also be the blue-print for what Jamie should be being asked to achieve in CC cricket too (and fields should be set accordingly). Yes, unlike Peter Trego, Jamie Overton can theoretically run in and bang it in half-way down at 90mph. But wouldn’t make a whole lot more sense to ask him to run in and pitch it up like our other seamers, seeking movement, with the understanding that if he can obtain equivalent movement to our other bowlers, but at greater speed, he may well prove more successful than our other bowlers?
I think the comment – expressed, I think it was, by WSM (but apologies to him if not) that Jamie Overton is a “weapon,” and the view expressed possibly by somebody else that he is the guy that “gives us something different,” is precisely the biggest problem for Jamie Overton and, I suspect, for many other bowlers of his ilk over the years.
I feel (and fear) that club management in recent times have looked at Jamie and reached exactly the same sort of conclusion “He can give us something others can’t,’ but that the outcome that has flowed from that has largely been that Jamie appears to have been asked to play some sort of “enforcer role,” with very little conspicuous success, it has to be said.
In my view, an analogy can be drawn with Stuart Broad. A lot of enforcer type clap-trap used to be bandied about re: Broad in the international set-up. IMO, he became a more successful bowler when he started to worry less about acting out a role and started to concentrate more on the fundamentals of successful bowling i.e. line, length and movement.
I’ve seen Jamie Overton bowl a number of spells for Somerset in CC cricket. I have formed the view that he clearly has (or at least had at one time) a fine yorker in his arsenal. I can’t say that I’ve ever really seen him authentically bounce out a specialist batsman, however. And because he has often, IMO, plugged away on something short of a “Caddick length,” he has tended to not pose much of a threat to batsmen via movement either.
By far the best spell of bowling I have seen from Jamie came in an otherwise unsuccessful 40 over game for Somerset at Lord’s. Presumably , any “enforcement entreaties,” either do not apply or are toned down in short form cricket. What Jamie did that day was to pitch the ball up and swing it at high pace. In my opinion, this should also be the blue-print for what Jamie should be being asked to achieve in CC cricket too (and fields should be set accordingly). Yes, unlike Peter Trego, Jamie Overton can theoretically run in and bang it in half-way down at 90mph. But wouldn’t make a whole lot more sense to ask him to run in and pitch it up like our other seamers, seeking movement, with the understanding that if he can obtain equivalent movement to our other bowlers, but at greater speed, he may well prove more successful than our other bowlers?
Definitely good to get the early breakthrough and get NC in early.
Be better still to swiftly see the back of him, which I fervently hope we do.
Hopefully we can get another couple of wickets with this new cherry, and then set Mr Rehman to work for some of the first session and most or all of the final two sessions.
Be better still to swiftly see the back of him, which I fervently hope we do.
Hopefully we can get another couple of wickets with this new cherry, and then set Mr Rehman to work for some of the first session and most or all of the final two sessions.
Quote:nelliec
that looked a sitter .What was Hildy on at the time?
Whatever it was, I wish I'd had some during my cricket-playing days.
As for yesterday's score, if we can score 400 in every innings with only two batsmen making significant runs, I don't think we need fear relegation.
I noticed that there was no real comment from MM (or anyone else) about what the target was for our first-innings total.
After the Durham collapse, MM said that the aim was 450 and so the total vs Durham was obviously really disappointing to management.
The talk about this pitch seems to be that, like the Durham pitch, it has more pace and bounce than we have been accustomed to for some years AND that this one is also taking turn.
So it's probably reasonably to assume that - given the way the track was playing - the target may well have been no higher than 400 in this instance, and perhaps only 350. In which case, even with the substantial collapse, the target will have been met.
After the Durham collapse, MM said that the aim was 450 and so the total vs Durham was obviously really disappointing to management.
The talk about this pitch seems to be that, like the Durham pitch, it has more pace and bounce than we have been accustomed to for some years AND that this one is also taking turn.
So it's probably reasonably to assume that - given the way the track was playing - the target may well have been no higher than 400 in this instance, and perhaps only 350. In which case, even with the substantial collapse, the target will have been met.
Why do they need a target at all? Why not just go out there and get as many as you can?
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
No target?
No blinking target?
Get on trend, LoL, you've got to move with the times.
No blinking target?
Get on trend, LoL, you've got to move with the times.
It's certainly a fair question, LoL. I don't know the answer. But it might be that it's a way to try and focus minds so that even if the team appears in a highly promising position i.e the 200+ for 2 that we have been in each first dig so far, minds need to stay focussed on the fact that a certain minimum number of runs are still likely to be needed, given the prevailing conditions.
Obviously, if that is the purpose of having a specific target in mind, then it's not really achieved its purpose in either first dig yet.
Obviously, if that is the purpose of having a specific target in mind, then it's not really achieved its purpose in either first dig yet.
And if we are 200 for 7? Does it still focus the mind or interfere with it?
I think that setting a target is particularly inappropriate for a side that has been asked to bat first. Perhaps you could see how things are going at tea time and then start thinking about how much more might be possible.
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Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:27:12:00:48 by Loyal of Lhasa.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:27:12:00:48 by Loyal of Lhasa.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For some reason NC's record away from Taunton was quite a bit better than his record at home and I was really hoping that he'd fail to bat for a long time today.
Hurrah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For some reason NC's record away from Taunton was quite a bit better than his record at home and I was really hoping that he'd fail to bat for a long time today.
Hurrah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gubbins looked very good when I saw him last year and is starting to sound like a menace today.
I'd have thought that, by now, given reports of the track turning yesterday (unless that was just kidology on our part!?) that we'd have seen Rehman beginning a spell.
At present Gubbins has one thing in common with Abell, namely a top FC score of 95; I trust that will still apply at the end of the day. I thought he looked very good at Uxbridges last year.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I trust that it will be true of neither man for very much longer.
But I certainly hope that NG has to wait until (at least) his next match. But TA should feel free to break the tie with NG as soon as the second innings of this match.
But I certainly hope that NG has to wait until (at least) his next match. But TA should feel free to break the tie with NG as soon as the second innings of this match.
He has yet to bowl much in his SCCC career but, thus far, Jim Allenby appears to be a useful option for MT from a control in the field point of view.
Bowling, as he is at present, in tandem with Rehman, that could be doubly valuable.
Bowling, as he is at present, in tandem with Rehman, that could be doubly valuable.
What second innings! We shan't need one.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
You might wish to have a bit of a word at lunch then, LoL, because we may need to find a way to induce something of a collapse, if we are going to dismiss them for a total lower than 258 runs...
A comparison:
Carberry 11932 FC runs @ 43.70
Hildreth 12205 FC runs @ 43.28
Interesting that one has had plenty of international opportunities, while the other has had none. It reminds me of another comparison
Bowler 19567 FC runs @ 40.51
Butcher 17870 FC runs @ 40.70
Twas ever thus...
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:27:14:41:38 by Loyal of Lhasa.
Carberry 11932 FC runs @ 43.70
Hildreth 12205 FC runs @ 43.28
Interesting that one has had plenty of international opportunities, while the other has had none. It reminds me of another comparison
Bowler 19567 FC runs @ 40.51
Butcher 17870 FC runs @ 40.70
Twas ever thus...
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:27:14:41:38 by Loyal of Lhasa.
Given that James was Lions Captain for a while, one assumes they had a good look at him.
James got that opportunity, if memory serves, after his tremendous 2010 season.
Had he backed that 2010 season up with anything nearly as good, then they may have been forced to take a look at senior level although, truth be told, with central contracts the first XI is often a virtual closed shop anyway, with opportunities arising only in the event of injury or disgrace (KP)..
James got that opportunity, if memory serves, after his tremendous 2010 season.
Had he backed that 2010 season up with anything nearly as good, then they may have been forced to take a look at senior level although, truth be told, with central contracts the first XI is often a virtual closed shop anyway, with opportunities arising only in the event of injury or disgrace (KP)..
Not sounding great at the minute, to be honest.
Even if the weather actually allows four full days, it is looking as though that unholy collapse has probably put paid to any chances of making Middx follow-on and may even have put paid (although that remains to be seen) to any serious hopes of a significant first-innings lead.
Even if the weather actually allows four full days, it is looking as though that unholy collapse has probably put paid to any chances of making Middx follow-on and may even have put paid (although that remains to be seen) to any serious hopes of a significant first-innings lead.
I feel that the distribution of bowling by Marcus, thus far, arguably supports my assertion that the balance of the team is that we have one bowler too many and one batsman too few.
Jamie Overton has so far bowled all of four overs. Assuming that Rehman will have a significant bowl and that Lewis G and Tim G will again share the new ball - assuming that we opt to take a second one - then it's perfectly conceivable that Jamie will only be given a total of 8 or 9 overs in an entire day of cricket.
I do not feel that that is sufficient to justify including him in a team at the expense of an extra batting option, as and when one is available (in other words when Myburgh and Abell are simultaneously available).
I realise that some might argue that the fact that we've taken only two wickets all day suggests that we need as much bowling as we can get, I'd still submit that no bowler is going to take wickets without being brought on to bowl!
Jamie Overton has so far bowled all of four overs. Assuming that Rehman will have a significant bowl and that Lewis G and Tim G will again share the new ball - assuming that we opt to take a second one - then it's perfectly conceivable that Jamie will only be given a total of 8 or 9 overs in an entire day of cricket.
I do not feel that that is sufficient to justify including him in a team at the expense of an extra batting option, as and when one is available (in other words when Myburgh and Abell are simultaneously available).
I realise that some might argue that the fact that we've taken only two wickets all day suggests that we need as much bowling as we can get, I'd still submit that no bowler is going to take wickets without being brought on to bowl!
The light has been poor at Taunton (they are now off for rain and early tea to be taken at 3.10) so maybe concerns the umpires would've taken thenm off sonner if Jamie had been brought on to bowl more this afternoon.
And should the "unexpected" happen and Somerset do manage to bowl Middlesex out for fewer than 259 runs then they will probably appreciate having that "extra" bowler if they are going to enforce the follow-on
My impression of this match - from the scorecard and listening to some of the commentary as I am not in Taunton - is that once set batting can be accomplished with few errors, but the batsman who is newly arrived at the crease can struggle and wickets tend to fall in clusters. So there is every possibility that once this partnership is broken Middlesex could suffer a batting collapse.
Of course, I'm not at the ground, so I may be wrong...
And should the "unexpected" happen and Somerset do manage to bowl Middlesex out for fewer than 259 runs then they will probably appreciate having that "extra" bowler if they are going to enforce the follow-on
My impression of this match - from the scorecard and listening to some of the commentary as I am not in Taunton - is that once set batting can be accomplished with few errors, but the batsman who is newly arrived at the crease can struggle and wickets tend to fall in clusters. So there is every possibility that once this partnership is broken Middlesex could suffer a batting collapse.
Of course, I'm not at the ground, so I may be wrong...
I really don't think, for one moment, that Tres either would (or should) be thinking in terms of sparing bowlers for a potential follow-on at the moment!
With only two wickets down, I would expect his focus to be on doing whatever we can to best expedite the end of this innings, rather than worrying about a possible Middx second innings that appears very unlikely to occur until after we have had another bat.
Equally, even if we did manage to engineer some massive collapse (or Middx simply throw it all away) such that they did have to follow-on, I still have doubts as to whether Jamie would be given a lot of bowling. I think you'd have to go back to the 2013 season, probably, to find the last time that Tresco seemed to have the faith to give JO plenty of bowling.
The story on the radio today is that it might be "too cold to swing," today whereas, yesterday, numerous balls swung and beat the bat. It sounds, to me, as though batting has been altogether an easier business today than yesterday. Whether that's 100 percent to do with conditions themselves, or whether the quality of batting/bowling provide some explanation as to the difference, who knows?
With only two wickets down, I would expect his focus to be on doing whatever we can to best expedite the end of this innings, rather than worrying about a possible Middx second innings that appears very unlikely to occur until after we have had another bat.
Equally, even if we did manage to engineer some massive collapse (or Middx simply throw it all away) such that they did have to follow-on, I still have doubts as to whether Jamie would be given a lot of bowling. I think you'd have to go back to the 2013 season, probably, to find the last time that Tresco seemed to have the faith to give JO plenty of bowling.
The story on the radio today is that it might be "too cold to swing," today whereas, yesterday, numerous balls swung and beat the bat. It sounds, to me, as though batting has been altogether an easier business today than yesterday. Whether that's 100 percent to do with conditions themselves, or whether the quality of batting/bowling provide some explanation as to the difference, who knows?
Before lunch, having bowled 4 overs, Jamie Overton left the field.
He was off for about 15 - 20 minutes before he returned - again before lunch.
Did not appear to be suffering any injury.
He was off for about 15 - 20 minutes before he returned - again before lunch.
Did not appear to be suffering any injury.
Ha! There are probably only three people that could tell for sure, the other one being their mother.
Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeego!
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Always thought we have been missing a trick there Lol. Good way to keep them fresh!
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa
At present Gubbins has one thing in common with Abell, namely a top FC score of 95; I trust that will still apply at the end of the day.
My trust was justified.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Day two photos, another bitterly cold day.
Not many today I had an accident with the camera, when it started raining I had the camera between my legs like I always do while I searched in my bag for something to keep everything dry, it fell to the ground lucky only the lens hood was broken. I decided to go home and super glue the hood together.
Nick Gubbins did play well, with this four he got to his fifty.
Alex Barrow kept well behind the stumps, Jamie Overton deserve the wickets he got, seen here beating Nick Gubbins bat.
Nick Compton had a good clap from the crowd when he came out to bat, this was good to hear.
Could he be in trouble with the umpires? After he was given out caught Alex Barrow bowled Lewis Gregory he stood his ground first looking up to the sky and then down at the ground (see above) before walking off?
Another wicket for Lewis Gregory, Marcus Trescothick caught Sam Robson off his bowling.
Not many today I had an accident with the camera, when it started raining I had the camera between my legs like I always do while I searched in my bag for something to keep everything dry, it fell to the ground lucky only the lens hood was broken. I decided to go home and super glue the hood together.
Nick Gubbins did play well, with this four he got to his fifty.
Alex Barrow kept well behind the stumps, Jamie Overton deserve the wickets he got, seen here beating Nick Gubbins bat.
Nick Compton had a good clap from the crowd when he came out to bat, this was good to hear.
Could he be in trouble with the umpires? After he was given out caught Alex Barrow bowled Lewis Gregory he stood his ground first looking up to the sky and then down at the ground (see above) before walking off?
Another wicket for Lewis Gregory, Marcus Trescothick caught Sam Robson off his bowling.
Thanks, Mike.
Excellent as always.
As for the match, got to hope for a quick wrap-up and then for Wednesday's pretty urine poor forecast to be inaccurate.
The alternative would be some sort of second innings collapse by us (quickly) followed by Middx subsiding meekly before the end of tomorrow. Both sides collapsing in a heap in one day does not sound terribly likely, but I suppose stranger things have happened.
But unless and until Wednesday's forecast is proven wrong, then the draw is surely a strong favourite.
Excellent as always.
As for the match, got to hope for a quick wrap-up and then for Wednesday's pretty urine poor forecast to be inaccurate.
The alternative would be some sort of second innings collapse by us (quickly) followed by Middx subsiding meekly before the end of tomorrow. Both sides collapsing in a heap in one day does not sound terribly likely, but I suppose stranger things have happened.
But unless and until Wednesday's forecast is proven wrong, then the draw is surely a strong favourite.
Another very positive day for me.
First 90 mins I thought we bowled very well, deserved more than we got for sure.
Went a bit flat for 30-40 mins before and after lunch I will admit.
The last session was superb, Lewis got rewards for his efforts and Jove was excellent, real gas built up, Gibbins was clearly petrified, he had him hoping everywhere before fending to Tres.
The last over he bowled is what fast bowling is all about. They were scared stiff of his pace so had been forced back and back and then with new ball he produced 2 full straight balls which sent Simpson and Rayners stumps flying, no better sight for me.....
First 90 mins I thought we bowled very well, deserved more than we got for sure.
Went a bit flat for 30-40 mins before and after lunch I will admit.
The last session was superb, Lewis got rewards for his efforts and Jove was excellent, real gas built up, Gibbins was clearly petrified, he had him hoping everywhere before fending to Tres.
The last over he bowled is what fast bowling is all about. They were scared stiff of his pace so had been forced back and back and then with new ball he produced 2 full straight balls which sent Simpson and Rayners stumps flying, no better sight for me.....
Good to see Jove back on song. May it long continue!
Good too to see we have a reliable wicket taker in Lewis.
Good too to see we have a reliable wicket taker in Lewis.
I was one of the few people left in the ground to see Jove's wickets at the end of the day. In this spell he was fast, dangerous to life and limb of batsmen, and mixed up short but rather well directed bouncers with deliveries pitched right up. A very satisfying clatter of timber ensued on two occasions.
He also fell spectacularly, following through after one delivery. Luckily he seemed fine afterwards. My impression all day was that his colleagues were especially encouraging to him.
As Mike says, Nicholas Richard Denis Compton was indeed unhappy about his dismissal. Can't feel too sorry for him as not only is he playing against Somerset but he had snicked the ball over and through the slips on a number of occasions.
Addendum: Sorry, wsm. Hadn't seen your post when I started typing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:27:21:47:30 by Bobstan.
He also fell spectacularly, following through after one delivery. Luckily he seemed fine afterwards. My impression all day was that his colleagues were especially encouraging to him.
As Mike says, Nicholas Richard Denis Compton was indeed unhappy about his dismissal. Can't feel too sorry for him as not only is he playing against Somerset but he had snicked the ball over and through the slips on a number of occasions.
Addendum: Sorry, wsm. Hadn't seen your post when I started typing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:27:21:47:30 by Bobstan.
Another factor Tom Abell and Nick Gubbins have in common is that both are on the cusp on key examinations at Exeter and Leeds Universities, respectively. This does not seem to prevent them from being released to play for their counties, though.
Almost certainly, both plan a future in cricket, but sports careers don`t last for ever and one wonders if they have their priorities right for what after all is only about a month of the season.
Almost certainly, both plan a future in cricket, but sports careers don`t last for ever and one wonders if they have their priorities right for what after all is only about a month of the season.
Hello, Nigel Farage here again. I don't like it, I say I don't like it. All these Devonians coming over here and taking our wickets...
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Excellent news about Jove - and, of course, Lewis Gregory. I believe that both have the potential to be very fine bowlers. It is particularly pleasing to hear that Jove bowled quickly and that he mixed full balls with shorter deliveries.
cjm: Peter Roebuck managed to get a First at Cambridge while playing three-day cricket for Cambridge - and many other Univeristy cricketers can boast similar achievements.
cjm: Peter Roebuck managed to get a First at Cambridge while playing three-day cricket for Cambridge - and many other Univeristy cricketers can boast similar achievements.
Yes, that was Cambridge, but Exeter and Leeds are proper universities.
😉
😉
And Chris Jones got a first at Durham in the same week he scored 100 against the Aussies
I once scored 35 not out playing for Pontyberem seconds whilst sitting my CSE resits at Llanelli tech.
I failed them all.
I failed them all.
Well done Jamie and Lewis. Get 'em out, get us in and get some runs on the board so we can get 'em in and get 'em out again.
Weather for tomorrow looks pretty good now. A bit or rain early tomorrow but forecast to have cleared by start of play. Gregory and Jove exposed a weak lower middle order last night and if Rehmann can come to the party we may well have a sniff. Now come on lads, pile on the runs.
Loss of Murtagh a significant blow to their bowling attack as well.
Amongst seamers then he is surely their best bet from a "control," point of view.
Amongst seamers then he is surely their best bet from a "control," point of view.
Looking at their line-up, with an attempt at a long vigil from Compton likely, I suspect that time is likely to be more of the issue.
Looks like the bad weather may arrive (and thus leave) earlier than previously forecast so might get most of tomorrow in, after all.
With the second half of our batting having folded twice in three innings so far this season, we cannot afford to take many chances, I would not have thought, until we are a good 250 or so runs ahead. If we could get to, say, 250 lead and only two or three down, then the situation might suit the likes of Allenby and Trego who could endeavour to bat in one day mode with the aim of getting an hour or so's bowling in tonight, if at all possible. If all goes according to plan, I suppose that might entail a 350 or so run lead by the time we start bowling.
Obviously, that would potentially leave the door open to possibly losing the match if Middx were to bat really well, second time around. But if we play it safe and conservatively and look for, say, a 420 run lead such that they don't have to bat at all tonight then, with the prospect of disruption tomorrow, I would think that the draw would again become the favourite.
In one way, in a game - such as this one - where a team has taken maximum bonus points, they can afford to be a bit more adventurous in terms of risking a defeat to maximise the chances of a win, IMO, than in a game where bonus points have been in short supply.
Looks like the bad weather may arrive (and thus leave) earlier than previously forecast so might get most of tomorrow in, after all.
With the second half of our batting having folded twice in three innings so far this season, we cannot afford to take many chances, I would not have thought, until we are a good 250 or so runs ahead. If we could get to, say, 250 lead and only two or three down, then the situation might suit the likes of Allenby and Trego who could endeavour to bat in one day mode with the aim of getting an hour or so's bowling in tonight, if at all possible. If all goes according to plan, I suppose that might entail a 350 or so run lead by the time we start bowling.
Obviously, that would potentially leave the door open to possibly losing the match if Middx were to bat really well, second time around. But if we play it safe and conservatively and look for, say, a 420 run lead such that they don't have to bat at all tonight then, with the prospect of disruption tomorrow, I would think that the draw would again become the favourite.
In one way, in a game - such as this one - where a team has taken maximum bonus points, they can afford to be a bit more adventurous in terms of risking a defeat to maximise the chances of a win, IMO, than in a game where bonus points have been in short supply.
61 overs left, less two if there is a change of innings.
Lead of 187.
Bat to lead of 250 at current overall innings rate of 3.5 per over (hopefully without needing to take any huge chances). That would take 18 overs to reach 250 lead.
61 overs minus 18 needed to reach 250...... minus 12 overs (if we want to have 10 overs bowling at them tonight).
By my maths, that would leave 31 overs from the point of reaching 250 in which to score as many runs as possible to buttress the lead. If we could score 4.5 an over for those 31 overs that would actually give us an additional 139 runs.
That would mean we could declare, with 10 overs bowling to come tonight, with a lead of 389 runs.
Lead of 187.
Bat to lead of 250 at current overall innings rate of 3.5 per over (hopefully without needing to take any huge chances). That would take 18 overs to reach 250 lead.
61 overs minus 18 needed to reach 250...... minus 12 overs (if we want to have 10 overs bowling at them tonight).
By my maths, that would leave 31 overs from the point of reaching 250 in which to score as many runs as possible to buttress the lead. If we could score 4.5 an over for those 31 overs that would actually give us an additional 139 runs.
That would mean we could declare, with 10 overs bowling to come tonight, with a lead of 389 runs.
Were young Tom's two dismissals at all similar in any way, need I be worried about a technique issue?
Quote:AGod
61 overs left, less two if there is a change of innings.
Lead of 187.
Bat to lead of 250 at current overall innings rate of 3.5 per over (hopefully without needing to take any huge chances). That would take 18 overs to reach 250 lead.
61 overs minus 18 needed to reach 250...... minus 12 overs (if we want to have 10 overs bowling at them tonight).
By my maths, that would leave 31 overs from the point of reaching 250 in which to score as many runs as possible to buttress the lead. If we could score 4.5 an over for those 31 overs that would actually give us an additional 139 runs.
That would mean we could declare, with 10 overs bowling to come tonight, with a lead of 389 runs.
With Tres & Hildy going at it again, we'll be delaring at tea..
That, Tumbles, would arguably represent the most adventurous declaration of Marcus T's career as Captain - depending, of course, on exactly how my runs we could gather before tea...
Right, what can Allenby do?
"Commentator's curse," for Tresco as they were just going on about how he looked "right back to his absolute best," and then, next ball..
"Commentator's curse," for Tresco as they were just going on about how he looked "right back to his absolute best," and then, next ball..
I joke, of course, about declaring at tea.
Can't be too dispondant about Tres - nearly 180 odd in the match is not a bad amount.
We need some Trego magic this afternoon I feel.
Can't be too dispondant about Tres - nearly 180 odd in the match is not a bad amount.
We need some Trego magic this afternoon I feel.
Be a good time for Allenby to announce himself, too. If he could get through to tea, then the match situation surely gives him scope to open his shoulders after tea and hopefully start to build some confidence in his new situation.
Alex Barrow, not a noted quick scorer, may have to adjust his natural game, given the situation.
Alex Barrow, not a noted quick scorer, may have to adjust his natural game, given the situation.
I think Jim isn't waiting till tea either!
No Murtagh here is a massive advantage to us, I feel.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:28:15:06:44 by Tumbles.
No Murtagh here is a massive advantage to us, I feel.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:28:15:06:44 by Tumbles.
Nailsea - I believe that TA was bowled, offering no shot, in the first innings. I wasn't listening to the second innings dismissal at the time, but have not heard them say he offered no shot this time.
If it was two no shots offered, more likely to be an error to judgement rather than technique.
If it was two no shots offered, more likely to be an error to judgement rather than technique.
Surpised we stuck Barrow in next. I guess he could hold down one end and let Hildy open up.
Little bit of rebuilding before tea I think then foot down for 15 overs or so after.
Then let Middlesex face JamieO steaming in for half a dozen overs before the close.
Then let Middlesex face JamieO steaming in for half a dozen overs before the close.
I suppose it's a good chance, Tumbles, for Barrow to show a different side to his game.
Taking a few overs to play himself in before tea will be okay. But after that we need runs to be flowing from both ends, IMO, so he will need to play accordingly.
Taking a few overs to play himself in before tea will be okay. But after that we need runs to be flowing from both ends, IMO, so he will need to play accordingly.
James Harris, the youngest bowler at 16 to take a first-class wicket for Glamorgan, looks to be running back into form after a dismal first two years since he moved to Middlesex - five wickets in Somerset`s first innings, and now two in the Second.
He was so poor last season that he was sent back on loan to Glamorgan, but they only found room for him in two championship matches.
When he announced in 2012 he wanted to move from Glamorgan to further his Test chances, Somerset were one of a clutch of counties said to be interested.
He was so poor last season that he was sent back on loan to Glamorgan, but they only found room for him in two championship matches.
When he announced in 2012 he wanted to move from Glamorgan to further his Test chances, Somerset were one of a clutch of counties said to be interested.
Another one for whom the step up from Div Two proved, initially, quite a big challenge. Perhaps he is beginning to master it now.
Edited to clarify Harris, not Barrow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:28:15:40:44 by AGod.
Edited to clarify Harris, not Barrow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:28:15:40:44 by AGod.
A God-
Harris' problem was he was told by the England coaches that he needed to find an extra yard of pace if he wanted to play at international level.
He spent two years remodelling his action to try to achieve this.
I have a feeling he may have gone back to what he knows. It isn't just the wickets in first two championship matches. He was also the leading wicket taker in the pre season friendlies.
Harris' problem was he was told by the England coaches that he needed to find an extra yard of pace if he wanted to play at international level.
He spent two years remodelling his action to try to achieve this.
I have a feeling he may have gone back to what he knows. It isn't just the wickets in first two championship matches. He was also the leading wicket taker in the pre season friendlies.
How many bowlers haven't had a problem following interventions by the cursed England coaches?
I think another of Harris's problems was he spent too much time on the physios bench.
Finn back. That's good for us, I think.
If he bowls one of his loose spells, it could get us to where we need to be very quickly.
If, on the other hand, he finds his best, we might collapse again BUT in the context of this particular match (rather than the season as a whole) a Somerset collapse might not be a terrible thing as would create more time in which to bowl them out.
If he bowls one of his loose spells, it could get us to where we need to be very quickly.
If, on the other hand, he finds his best, we might collapse again BUT in the context of this particular match (rather than the season as a whole) a Somerset collapse might not be a terrible thing as would create more time in which to bowl them out.
Quote:AGod
Nailsea - I believe that TA was bowled, offering no shot, in the first innings. I wasn't listening to the second innings dismissal at the time, but have not heard them say he offered no shot this time.
If it was two no shots offered, more likely to be an error to judgement rather than technique.
I find it strange that the two aspects are not considered to be inter - related.
Indeed CP. if you are getting the line wrong maybe your technigue has you in the wrong place.
Still they weren't the same dismissal so no worries just yet
Still they weren't the same dismissal so no worries just yet
Might as well have a thrash now, with one end open after Trego dismissal and then get bowling.
When you've got an international spinner on a pitch that, supposedly, was taking some turn on day one, then you've got to back yourselves to be able to defend 350+.
I don't want to see us getting bogged down, batting time with the aim of simply denying Middx time to get the runs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:28:17:08:05 by AGod.
When you've got an international spinner on a pitch that, supposedly, was taking some turn on day one, then you've got to back yourselves to be able to defend 350+.
I don't want to see us getting bogged down, batting time with the aim of simply denying Middx time to get the runs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:28:17:08:05 by AGod.
Non worries at all unless you are suggesting he is likely to do more than hypothetically play no shot to consecutive dismissals at some time in the near future.
Given our current lead:
If Middx were to bat at the same run-rate that we have in our second dig (3.6 runs per over) it would take them 101 overs to get the winning target that would apply if they started batting right now.
Given that they have Nick Compton, who is most unlikely to bat at a rate of knots.
It might also be worth noting that Middx, in their first dig, also achieved a rate of 3.6 runs over. And that's despite the fact that Compton did not get that many.
If Middx were to bat at the same run-rate that we have in our second dig (3.6 runs per over) it would take them 101 overs to get the winning target that would apply if they started batting right now.
Given that they have Nick Compton, who is most unlikely to bat at a rate of knots.
It might also be worth noting that Middx, in their first dig, also achieved a rate of 3.6 runs over. And that's despite the fact that Compton did not get that many.
If my arithmetic is correct, Mr Hildreth has scored 574 1st class runs already this season at an average of 82.
A good performance today. It all makes for possibly an interesting day tomorrow.
Went off injured with a problem knee according to the radio commentators.
News from Kevin Hand (our man from the BBC) - Overton has a heel injury and will be assessed in the morning. Murtagh (who didnt bat or bowl today) will probably bat if needed.
Really good effort today & congrats to Marcus + especially to James.
Would be terrific if we could knock them over tomorrow.
Grizzzly
Would be terrific if we could knock them over tomorrow.
Grizzzly
I do not think that there are any demons in the pitch, which if anything may be evening - out.
Middlesex, if they bat sensibly, could reach their target tomorrow should there be a full day's play.
Should Overton not be fit to resume, our attack has much of a muchness about it, and we will have to bowl very well to contain them.
Will Rehman come to the party?
Here's hoping.
Middlesex, if they bat sensibly, could reach their target tomorrow should there be a full day's play.
Should Overton not be fit to resume, our attack has much of a muchness about it, and we will have to bowl very well to contain them.
Will Rehman come to the party?
Here's hoping.
Obviously we must wait for the full assessment on JO's injury.
However, I have noticed in the past that it has seemed to be a reasonably frequent occurrence that he will either go off the field injured or stay on the field but be deemed unfit to bowl one day, and then often bowl the next.
I suspect that, perhaps, he is one of those guys who - when he feels something not quite right - prefers to get off the field and get things checked out immediately rather than risking making it worse by bowling through it.
However, I have noticed in the past that it has seemed to be a reasonably frequent occurrence that he will either go off the field injured or stay on the field but be deemed unfit to bowl one day, and then often bowl the next.
I suspect that, perhaps, he is one of those guys who - when he feels something not quite right - prefers to get off the field and get things checked out immediately rather than risking making it worse by bowling through it.
On the other hand CP we may very well bowl really well and take them down even with a full day's play in the offing. Just like with the batsmen. We employ a group of gentlemen whose job it is to bowl at people and take their wickets in positions of pressure. They have all done it before and tomorrow they will be asked to do it again.
If we don't create the situations they can't do that and at least in this game we have created the situation. Time for them to earn the salaries we pay them. After all, the captain has played above your expectations. There is no reason why the bowlers can't
If we don't create the situations they can't do that and at least in this game we have created the situation. Time for them to earn the salaries we pay them. After all, the captain has played above your expectations. There is no reason why the bowlers can't
Well, whatever happens tomorrow, I sincerely hope there is no rain.
Personally I've never derived any satisfaction from being saved by the rain.
Most of the forecasts seem to think a fair bit of rain in the small hours, which should be over by 10am, so hopefully a prompt start.
A wet outfield might make it harder for Middlesex to score boundaries- but, equally, a wet ball might be harder for the bowlers to control.
4 an over is perfectly doable- but I concede you are favourites at the moment.
Personally I've never derived any satisfaction from being saved by the rain.
Most of the forecasts seem to think a fair bit of rain in the small hours, which should be over by 10am, so hopefully a prompt start.
A wet outfield might make it harder for Middlesex to score boundaries- but, equally, a wet ball might be harder for the bowlers to control.
4 an over is perfectly doable- but I concede you are favourites at the moment.
Quite right, Chunky, about the rain.
We will certainly be hoping to dry up the outfield really quickly as a damp ball won't help Rehman.
We will certainly be hoping to dry up the outfield really quickly as a damp ball won't help Rehman.
There is some pace still and some turn.
Unless we bowl badly 400 should prove a very difficult target.
Unless we bowl badly 400 should prove a very difficult target.
Still have bad memories of being at Bath watching Worcs get 400+ to beat us on the last day:
[cricketarchive.com]
Don't expect this to happen tomorrow though !!
Grizzzly
[cricketarchive.com]
Don't expect this to happen tomorrow though !!
Grizzzly
I hope that the Captain captains "above my expectations", Grockle.
And I still have nightmares about this fiasco, Grizzzly: -
[cricketarchive.com]
And I still have nightmares about this fiasco, Grizzzly: -
[cricketarchive.com]
3rd day's photos.
It is still very cold watching cricket.
Jamie Overton hit Steven Finn for a six.
But Steven Finn got his revenge by clean bowling JO.
Steven Finn took a tumble watch by Lewis Gregory.
Did Peter Trego try and play one big shot too many or was he batting to order? Which ever it was he was bowled by Steven Finn.
Another good knock from James Hildreth, a nice straight drive for four runs and his fifty.
A few sixes today this one from Peter Trego.
And this six from Jim Allenby.
Tommy Cooper was a bit unlucky here when the ball ran up his pad and then he was unable to stop it trickling back onto his stumps, the bowler Ollie Rayner.
Tom Abell is finding it hard adjusting to first class cricket (give him time) he was cleaned bowled by James Harris.
Lewis Gregory jumping for joy after trapping Steven Finn lbw.
Another wicket for Lewis Gregory after James Franklin was out lbw.
It is still very cold watching cricket.
Jamie Overton hit Steven Finn for a six.
But Steven Finn got his revenge by clean bowling JO.
Steven Finn took a tumble watch by Lewis Gregory.
Did Peter Trego try and play one big shot too many or was he batting to order? Which ever it was he was bowled by Steven Finn.
Another good knock from James Hildreth, a nice straight drive for four runs and his fifty.
A few sixes today this one from Peter Trego.
And this six from Jim Allenby.
Tommy Cooper was a bit unlucky here when the ball ran up his pad and then he was unable to stop it trickling back onto his stumps, the bowler Ollie Rayner.
Tom Abell is finding it hard adjusting to first class cricket (give him time) he was cleaned bowled by James Harris.
Lewis Gregory jumping for joy after trapping Steven Finn lbw.
Another wicket for Lewis Gregory after James Franklin was out lbw.
Great photos, thanks Mike. We did pretty well today - by the way, Cricinfo says Abell got a very good ball - chasing 400 won't be easy, but it is possible on a quick outfield with a short boundary. Good day to bowl them out, good day for Rehman, Jove and others to pick up some wickets - and a good day's cricket to watch, I expect.
I think that generally speaking Middlesex bowled better in our second innings. Finn in particular looked a far better bowler.
One area where I think our opponents have been rather better than us - although not by a mile - is ground fielding. We have been far from dreadful, though.
I really do think Cooper shows promise. He looks a well organised batsman and drives very well off the front foot. The generalisation, which may well be outdated, used to be that Australians played better off the back foot and English players off the front foot.
I agree that Tom has been unlucky with his dismissals in this match, and I feel he may well do a very useful job for us.
It has been a delight in this match to see Marcus and JH batting so beautifully.
One area where I think our opponents have been rather better than us - although not by a mile - is ground fielding. We have been far from dreadful, though.
I really do think Cooper shows promise. He looks a well organised batsman and drives very well off the front foot. The generalisation, which may well be outdated, used to be that Australians played better off the back foot and English players off the front foot.
I agree that Tom has been unlucky with his dismissals in this match, and I feel he may well do a very useful job for us.
It has been a delight in this match to see Marcus and JH batting so beautifully.
Putting aside our Somerset bias what a great pitch and a great match!
In 3 days we have had over 1000 runs and 29 wickets in about 280 overs, what more couldbe asked for.
I'm very confident for tomorrow, I know its Taunton but it is hugely rare for any team to chase totals of 400 on a last day pitch.
We have Rehman and Voges apart nobody scares me in their line up. Compo solid but he'll struggle to keep up 4 an over for the whole day.
If we can get them 140-3 at lunch 280-6 at tea something like that it could be a cracking finish. Any rain break help us greatly as 1 ups there run rate required, and 2 keeps Lewis and Jove (hopefully) fresher between spells.
New ball key, get 2 or 3 in that first hour and we are well on our way.
Early wickets too will help stop their scoring so slowly puts a win out of their reach.
Also if they are trying/having to score off Rehman that will only increase his threat.
Here's hoping for a lovely dank, grim, cloudy morning so it swings round corners, then a bit of sun later on for Abdur to spin the tail out.
Good to see Tractor back today and in fine voice, "come on my babbies"
In 3 days we have had over 1000 runs and 29 wickets in about 280 overs, what more couldbe asked for.
I'm very confident for tomorrow, I know its Taunton but it is hugely rare for any team to chase totals of 400 on a last day pitch.
We have Rehman and Voges apart nobody scares me in their line up. Compo solid but he'll struggle to keep up 4 an over for the whole day.
If we can get them 140-3 at lunch 280-6 at tea something like that it could be a cracking finish. Any rain break help us greatly as 1 ups there run rate required, and 2 keeps Lewis and Jove (hopefully) fresher between spells.
New ball key, get 2 or 3 in that first hour and we are well on our way.
Early wickets too will help stop their scoring so slowly puts a win out of their reach.
Also if they are trying/having to score off Rehman that will only increase his threat.
Here's hoping for a lovely dank, grim, cloudy morning so it swings round corners, then a bit of sun later on for Abdur to spin the tail out.
Good to see Tractor back today and in fine voice, "come on my babbies"
Yes, WSM, Compo solid. Arguably, the sooner he is dismissed the greater the chance for EACH side of winning the match.
Obviously, that's assuming that he bats at something like his customary pace.
Obviously, that's assuming that he bats at something like his customary pace.
Granted not a big sample to judge on, but in Middlesex's first innings Nick Compton hit 5 x 4's in his innings of 28, and achieved the highest strike rate in the team's innings of 82.35.
As we should know from the past when he was with us, he can step up the rate when required.
As we should know from the past when he was with us, he can step up the rate when required.
Ahhh the Gareth Breese match CP.... yeah it sticks in the memory does it not.
That's what the scorecard says, Clarence, yes.
But I think at least three of the 4s 'hit," were outside edges, so it's fair to say, I think, that his scoring-rate from that first innings in no way reflects the approach that he took to his innings i.e he didn't come out and seek to blaze away.
I agree that there have been times when he has accelerated in CC cricket for Somerset. However, I feel that these tended to be in situations where SCCC were either batting first in a match (and looking to declare) or attempting to set a target in the third innings.
I cannot recall NC ever having played the kind of knock where he starts off slowly and then accelerates in the 4th innings of a CC match for SCCC. I can recall him playing various long rear-guards in 4th innings including away to Middx at Lord's and, I think, away to Yorkshire.
But I think at least three of the 4s 'hit," were outside edges, so it's fair to say, I think, that his scoring-rate from that first innings in no way reflects the approach that he took to his innings i.e he didn't come out and seek to blaze away.
I agree that there have been times when he has accelerated in CC cricket for Somerset. However, I feel that these tended to be in situations where SCCC were either batting first in a match (and looking to declare) or attempting to set a target in the third innings.
I cannot recall NC ever having played the kind of knock where he starts off slowly and then accelerates in the 4th innings of a CC match for SCCC. I can recall him playing various long rear-guards in 4th innings including away to Middx at Lord's and, I think, away to Yorkshire.
I'm not sure we do know that from his time with us CP. One of the issues that Nick had here and on international duty was the uncertainty that he had more than 1 gear.
I'd much rather be bowling at him when he is trying to push the score because that is when he offers chances. His solid 'bore the bowlers' times are the most frustrating for the other side as he rarely takes risks if they aren't necessary.
If we all think he is the key man then what the hell were Middlesex doing last year? Surely there are others we should be more concerned about?
I'd much rather be bowling at him when he is trying to push the score because that is when he offers chances. His solid 'bore the bowlers' times are the most frustrating for the other side as he rarely takes risks if they aren't necessary.
If we all think he is the key man then what the hell were Middlesex doing last year? Surely there are others we should be more concerned about?
I've personally seen him do it one occasion that sticks in the mind - at Trent Bridge.
That was in a situation where Notts had, if memory serves, made naff all, and, in reply, Arul had made a ton. Nick Compton also made a ton and, by about the point that he made it to 150, he suddenly began to bat in expansive fashion as he attempted to move SCCC towards a declaration.
Realistically, we will surely have the mentality of expecting (in a non complacent way) to be able to push hard for victory and so NC will be the prize wicket as he's the one most likely to have both the intent and the capability to bat all day long.
If were looking at it more negatively and worrying about Middx winning the match, then we'd be more worried about the likes of Voges and Franklin, I would assume.
That was in a situation where Notts had, if memory serves, made naff all, and, in reply, Arul had made a ton. Nick Compton also made a ton and, by about the point that he made it to 150, he suddenly began to bat in expansive fashion as he attempted to move SCCC towards a declaration.
Realistically, we will surely have the mentality of expecting (in a non complacent way) to be able to push hard for victory and so NC will be the prize wicket as he's the one most likely to have both the intent and the capability to bat all day long.
If were looking at it more negatively and worrying about Middx winning the match, then we'd be more worried about the likes of Voges and Franklin, I would assume.
Re: the Abell dismissals, apparently both balls came back in a very long way indeed, and the Beeb said "the only difference," was that he left the first one, but played at the second.
Well, Compton won't be a factor anyway, although the weather is beginning to sound a worry.
No Jamie O by the sounds of it?
No Jamie O by the sounds of it?
Swollen ankle. X-rays negative for Jamie O. Won't play any further part in this match.
Presumably, if the swelling and pain does not go down within a few days' time, then an MRI would follow.
Presumably, if the swelling and pain does not go down within a few days' time, then an MRI would follow.
Mercifully, Lewis G will be permitted (by the EC
to play at New Road before the England game. I was expecting them to try and insist that the squad attend some sort of pre-game camp for 3-4 days or something stupid like that.
to play at New Road before the England game. I was expecting them to try and insist that the squad attend some sort of pre-game camp for 3-4 days or something stupid like that.
Time for Tim G to bring something to the party, IMO.
I think this is his fifth CC match since signing (could be 4th?) and yet to really have an impact in the CC. Today would be a good day to start.
I think this is his fifth CC match since signing (could be 4th?) and yet to really have an impact in the CC. Today would be a good day to start.
This is actually TG's 4th match. Just looked at the numbers and (including this innings to date) he has so far taken 5 CC wickets at a cost of 403 runs.
Granted, he's had no games to bowl in in which conditions heavily favoured the bowler, but still, it's not been an auspicious start to his SCCC career and with BOTH Alf and Craig Overton hopefully close to a first-team return, TG will surely need a performance today to hold onto his place?
Granted, he's had no games to bowl in in which conditions heavily favoured the bowler, but still, it's not been an auspicious start to his SCCC career and with BOTH Alf and Craig Overton hopefully close to a first-team return, TG will surely need a performance today to hold onto his place?
Surely Rehman time to try to re-introduce a bit of control to proceedings soon?
This Mr Gubbins, isn't really at all is he?
A wicket to bring more control, please.
A wicket to bring more control, please.
This is cricket as it should be. a 400 target in the 4th innings, with a 100 overs to get them. Middlesex doing very nicely at the moment-pity we have no Jamie- but 2 quick wickets and the balance tilts.
We need a wicket for our own mentality too - sounds like we are presently on the defensive, a little too early for my liking. With Rehman I'd have thought we ought to be able to exert enough control without going very defensive in fields etc.
Well done, Abdur.
I think Gubbins now has 5 50s in his career, and I think 4 of them vs Somerset?
I think Gubbins now has 5 50s in his career, and I think 4 of them vs Somerset?
Yep, exactly.
Hopefully a bit of rough for Abdur R to operate with vs Franklin as well as vs Gubbins.
The remaining batsmen collectively average 140, although obviously only 10 Middx batsmen can conceivably be dismissed in the innings.
I would LOVE to get Voges before lunch. I think that, potentially, could crush Middx morale.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:12:46:55 by AGod.
Hopefully a bit of rough for Abdur R to operate with vs Franklin as well as vs Gubbins.
The remaining batsmen collectively average 140, although obviously only 10 Middx batsmen can conceivably be dismissed in the innings.
I would LOVE to get Voges before lunch. I think that, potentially, could crush Middx morale.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:12:46:55 by AGod.
I wonder if Tom Cooper, being an off-spinner, might also get a go at the left-handers, such as Franklin, if we don't swiftly get rid of them.
The 2 in at the moment hold the key. Get one or both and I would feel a lot happier
Looking at the arithmetic, unless they decide to chance their arm vs Rehman this afternoon, then it is likely that the second new ball will have the chance to make a big difference to this match.
Even if they score fairly quickly, they'd probably still be 75 runs or so short of their target by the time the second new ball would be available.
I think I might be tempted to move Peter T up to take it in place of TG, to be honest.
Even if they score fairly quickly, they'd probably still be 75 runs or so short of their target by the time the second new ball would be available.
I think I might be tempted to move Peter T up to take it in place of TG, to be honest.
So I think that was 117 for 3 for the session?
I think I'd be perfectly content with the same outcome from the next session.
That would leave them still needing 137 after tea, with only 4 wickets in hand.
I think I'd be perfectly content with the same outcome from the next session.
That would leave them still needing 137 after tea, with only 4 wickets in hand.
Quote:geordie moonraker
This is cricket as it should be.
I agree completely. It's been teasingly balanced throughout and is a great advertisement for four-day cricket. Let's hope we never return to those contrived three-day affairs.
All sounding a little too easy at the moment.
Somebody needs to do something inspired...
Somebody needs to do something inspired...
Looks like Tom Cooper has done a decent 'blocking up job.'
But hard to understand why Rehman is not bowling in tandem with him?
Or is it a case of us not wanting to give Middx any extra overs - i.e that we are now firmly in a 'try not to lose,' mindset?
But hard to understand why Rehman is not bowling in tandem with him?
Or is it a case of us not wanting to give Middx any extra overs - i.e that we are now firmly in a 'try not to lose,' mindset?
They must be favourites now, I'm afraid.
If they win, today would be the day that we failed to win it with the ball.
But losing should/would have not been possible but for the spectacular first-dig batting collapse.
As they just said on the Beeb, how often does a team batting first lose having been 377 for 3 in its first dig?
If they win, today would be the day that we failed to win it with the ball.
But losing should/would have not been possible but for the spectacular first-dig batting collapse.
As they just said on the Beeb, how often does a team batting first lose having been 377 for 3 in its first dig?
Well i'm sure it won't be long before your stats machine whirls in to action and enlightens us all.![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
Somewhat discomforting scorecard to wake up to.
Time for someone to deliver something special with the ball.
Grizzzly
Time for someone to deliver something special with the ball.
Grizzzly
It doesn't look like it's going to arrive in time Grizzly, which is a shame.
Maybe it's the bowling that's weak rather than the batting. Still something to discuss while the world goes round and we wait for Worcester.
Maybe it's the bowling that's weak rather than the batting. Still something to discuss while the world goes round and we wait for Worcester.
Looking like not only a loss but also a pretty bad loss in terms of margin of defeat here.
The worst thing is that, with the exception of the edge that Voges has just had, it sounds that not only have we not taken many wickets, but we've posed this tandem few problems either.
Maybe the pitch has flattened out? Maybe they are simply better than us? And as Middx have, I believe, won very few games since the end of May 2014, it doesn't bode very well if Middx are simply better than us.
I don't think we can really bemoan our 'luck,' re: the Jamie Overton injury because they were without Tim Murtagh for almost exactly the same amount of time that we were sans J Overton, in this match.
We have another theoretical relegation contender as our next opponent - namely Worcestershire. If we are unable to beat them either, then it could be a very unpromising season indeed.
The worst thing is that, with the exception of the edge that Voges has just had, it sounds that not only have we not taken many wickets, but we've posed this tandem few problems either.
Maybe the pitch has flattened out? Maybe they are simply better than us? And as Middx have, I believe, won very few games since the end of May 2014, it doesn't bode very well if Middx are simply better than us.
I don't think we can really bemoan our 'luck,' re: the Jamie Overton injury because they were without Tim Murtagh for almost exactly the same amount of time that we were sans J Overton, in this match.
We have another theoretical relegation contender as our next opponent - namely Worcestershire. If we are unable to beat them either, then it could be a very unpromising season indeed.
Don't worry. I'm sure we'll be given a detailed analysis of why we didn't win.
'Not good enough' does it for me...if it happens though it is starting to look likely.
'Not good enough' does it for me...if it happens though it is starting to look likely.
If "not good enough," is the verdict, Grockle, then what about the second part of the question - what will/can Maynard do about it?
We've had loads of runs from two men. Loads of wickets from one man. And one very good spell from one other man. The other seven? Haven't exactly spoiled us with runs and/or wickets in this one.
We've had loads of runs from two men. Loads of wickets from one man. And one very good spell from one other man. The other seven? Haven't exactly spoiled us with runs and/or wickets in this one.
I suspect we expedited our data analysis injudiciously.
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Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
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Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
TG finally has a wicket.
But surely only a Somerset batting-line up could conjure up such a spectacular collapse as to lose the game from here, couldn't it....?
But surely only a Somerset batting-line up could conjure up such a spectacular collapse as to lose the game from here, couldn't it....?
Yeah problems with middle order. Abdur doesn't seem to be what we hoped. Alf and Craig O needed? I'm sure AG will tell us what Matt needs to do, is thinking etc so I don't want to pre-empt the Oracle yet.
It may be Jason who needs to sort something. It may not be batting 'depth' that is our problem? Perish the thought that the 2015 spring analysis got hold of the wrong end of the stick, bat or whatever
It may be Jason who needs to sort something. It may not be batting 'depth' that is our problem? Perish the thought that the 2015 spring analysis got hold of the wrong end of the stick, bat or whatever
If it were 7 down now it would be a great last hour. Well played Middlesex, now having shown us how good you are you are allowed to collapse.
The thing with Abdur, Grockle, is that his previous spectacular success came at the end of a season when, all things being equal, tracks are more likely to provide a lot of assistance.
That's the problem with signing a spinner as overseas player when almost half the CC fixture list now takes place in April and May.
I wouldn't be too sure that batting isn't a problem, though, Grockle.
I'd look at it this way:
The good from the batting:
3 tons in 4 innings - a very good ratio.
No awful score below 200 yet.
--------------------------------
The bad from the batting:
3 collapses in 4 innings (one top half, two bottom half) - a very bad ratio.
Not a lot of (batting) production from numbers 5 or 6 in the line-up so far.
------------
As to the bowling?
As you say, Alf and Craig O should both be a big help (once fully fit and into rhythm and form).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:17:27:20 by AGod.
That's the problem with signing a spinner as overseas player when almost half the CC fixture list now takes place in April and May.
I wouldn't be too sure that batting isn't a problem, though, Grockle.
I'd look at it this way:
The good from the batting:
3 tons in 4 innings - a very good ratio.
No awful score below 200 yet.
--------------------------------
The bad from the batting:
3 collapses in 4 innings (one top half, two bottom half) - a very bad ratio.
Not a lot of (batting) production from numbers 5 or 6 in the line-up so far.
------------
As to the bowling?
As you say, Alf and Craig O should both be a big help (once fully fit and into rhythm and form).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:17:27:20 by AGod.
What is interesting is how many bystanders there have been on both sides in this match.
The same batsmen succeeding and failing in each innings for both teams.
Similarly only a couple of bowlers making a real impression.
The same batsmen succeeding and failing in each innings for both teams.
Similarly only a couple of bowlers making a real impression.
True, Chunky.
I guess it looks like your 4 (or 5 or whatever you had) will ultimately beat our 4...
I wonder if this great track that they've been talking about has played a part in that - they say it's a great cricket wicket because batsmen can totally trust the bounce, there isn't loads of movement etc, but there's a good amount of pace/bounce.
Perhaps a number of batsmen have been unable to cope with more pace and bounce than they may be accustomed to?
Perhaps the absence of much seam movement or any uneven bounce has made life a little too tough for a number of the bowlers to cope with?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:17:16:02 by AGod.
I guess it looks like your 4 (or 5 or whatever you had) will ultimately beat our 4...
I wonder if this great track that they've been talking about has played a part in that - they say it's a great cricket wicket because batsmen can totally trust the bounce, there isn't loads of movement etc, but there's a good amount of pace/bounce.
Perhaps a number of batsmen have been unable to cope with more pace and bounce than they may be accustomed to?
Perhaps the absence of much seam movement or any uneven bounce has made life a little too tough for a number of the bowlers to cope with?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:17:16:02 by AGod.
I don't think I care very much now that I've heard my first Tractor AND steam engine of the year.
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Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
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Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Well I despair yet again but can't say I am surprised - too many journeymen, not enough class, very average signings and an underwhelming appointment as DoC.
We are Somerset, we have a great following and a good financial position and a very pretty headquarters.
We just do not win the Championship - not ever yet and not this season I would wager.
Ah well it could be worse I guess - at least Bristol City and Bath Rugby gave cause for applause !
We are Somerset, we have a great following and a good financial position and a very pretty headquarters.
We just do not win the Championship - not ever yet and not this season I would wager.
Ah well it could be worse I guess - at least Bristol City and Bath Rugby gave cause for applause !
I'll take the good and expect it to continue and I'll expect the bad to be sorted,
I don't care what MM is thinking about our "skill sets" or whatever and I don't care whether Abdur did it at the end of the season or not because we aren't at the end of the season.
I'm happy with the front end. I'm not happy with the back end. I'm happy with Lewis and encouraged by Jamie but that's about it. The rest had best get their digits sorted and placed in the right orifices or removed from the wrong ones and I don't particularly care how it is done.
I don't care what MM is thinking about our "skill sets" or whatever and I don't care whether Abdur did it at the end of the season or not because we aren't at the end of the season.
I'm happy with the front end. I'm not happy with the back end. I'm happy with Lewis and encouraged by Jamie but that's about it. The rest had best get their digits sorted and placed in the right orifices or removed from the wrong ones and I don't particularly care how it is done.
Quote:rodders12
at least Bristol City gave cause for applause !
Now there's an idea. Lets be abjectly awfull for a couple years, get ourselves relegated to the Minor Counties and then profusely slap ourselves on the back when we win that.
And before certain other posters get in, no i don't think we have made a start on implementing that policy!!
I think I'll wait till the end of the season before despairing Rodders but I share the thoughts
expressed in the first line of your post 17:16.I'll reserve judgment on Mr Maynard.
expressed in the first line of your post 17:16.I'll reserve judgment on Mr Maynard.
Suffice it to say I await the excuses for this match with interest, whatever criticism I get from the ( rapidly diminishing number of ) half full glasses !
Congratulations to Middlesex.
I did predict yesterday that they “could reach their target, if they batted sensibly”, and sorry to say, this was what they did.
I was there for two sessions today, and was most disappointed that our boys looked to be a side that knew they were already beaten. Also, the ground fielding and throwing was not as sharp as it should have been.
To use ‘coach/player speak’, what ‘positives’ could be taken from this?
Only Hildreth and Trescothick’s batting, plus Gregory’s bowling in Middlesex’s first innings. The remainder of the team did not perform with any distinction to my mind.
I have not looked it up, but I would imagine that we are at the foot of the Championship table.
So when Rodders12 says,
I have to say that I agree with him on everything.
Our bowling (even with Craig Overton and Thomas included) is simply not strong enough to win many matches, especially at Taunton.
I was not surprised that Middlesex reached their target, for sadly I have seen it too many times before.
But on we must go to New Road!
I did predict yesterday that they “could reach their target, if they batted sensibly”, and sorry to say, this was what they did.
I was there for two sessions today, and was most disappointed that our boys looked to be a side that knew they were already beaten. Also, the ground fielding and throwing was not as sharp as it should have been.
To use ‘coach/player speak’, what ‘positives’ could be taken from this?
Only Hildreth and Trescothick’s batting, plus Gregory’s bowling in Middlesex’s first innings. The remainder of the team did not perform with any distinction to my mind.
I have not looked it up, but I would imagine that we are at the foot of the Championship table.
So when Rodders12 says,
Quote:rodders12
Well I despair yet again but can't say I am surprised - too many journeymen, not enough class, very average signings and an underwhelming appointment as DoC.
We are Somerset, we have a great following and a good financial position and a very pretty headquarters.
We just do not win the Championship - not ever yet and not this season I would wager.
I have to say that I agree with him on everything.
Our bowling (even with Craig Overton and Thomas included) is simply not strong enough to win many matches, especially at Taunton.
I was not surprised that Middlesex reached their target, for sadly I have seen it too many times before.
But on we must go to New Road!
It is worth remembering that Middlesex had two highly experienced international cricketers - both in their middle thirties and one of them total world class - at the heart of today`s run chase.
Adam Voges was the outstanding batsman in Australian cricket by a country mile in the winter, scoring centuries for Western Australia for fun and being selected for this summer`s Ashes tour despite not having a single Test appearance to his name at the age of 35.
Middlesex, who had signed Voges as captain for the entire season in place of Chris Rogers, thought they had lost him for good when the Ashes touring party was announced. But they persuaded the Australian selectors that six championship matches before the rest of the squad arrived would be to his benefit. Middlesex`s benefit, also, on today`s evidence.
James Franklin is no mug either, with 31 Test appearances for New Zealand and 110 LOIs on his CV. Slightly ironically, his statistics are rather better for bowling than batting (career average around 36).
Adam Voges was the outstanding batsman in Australian cricket by a country mile in the winter, scoring centuries for Western Australia for fun and being selected for this summer`s Ashes tour despite not having a single Test appearance to his name at the age of 35.
Middlesex, who had signed Voges as captain for the entire season in place of Chris Rogers, thought they had lost him for good when the Ashes touring party was announced. But they persuaded the Australian selectors that six championship matches before the rest of the squad arrived would be to his benefit. Middlesex`s benefit, also, on today`s evidence.
James Franklin is no mug either, with 31 Test appearances for New Zealand and 110 LOIs on his CV. Slightly ironically, his statistics are rather better for bowling than batting (career average around 36).
One could almost forget that Middlesex won the toss and asked Somerset to bat. That may have seemed a mistake at certain phases of the match, but the outcome was that batting fourth presented them with no great difficulties. They were worthy winners.
4th and last day's photos
Disappointing end result but surprisingly I found the last hours play the most entertaining part of the day.
Nick Compton did not get a good return to Taunton, it is a surprise how many experienced batsmen get out not playing a shot.
You don't see the stumps spread apart that far very often Lewis Gregory most have hit the stumps full on.
Nick Gubbins had a good match, in the second innings he was going well until Abdur Rehman bowled him.
Adam Voges leaving the ball from Lewis Gregory and Alex Barrow making a good stop down the leg side.
Adam Voges 100 runs, he played good today.
Disappointing end result but surprisingly I found the last hours play the most entertaining part of the day.
Nick Compton did not get a good return to Taunton, it is a surprise how many experienced batsmen get out not playing a shot.
You don't see the stumps spread apart that far very often Lewis Gregory most have hit the stumps full on.
Nick Gubbins had a good match, in the second innings he was going well until Abdur Rehman bowled him.
Adam Voges leaving the ball from Lewis Gregory and Alex Barrow making a good stop down the leg side.
Adam Voges 100 runs, he played good today.
YOu may wish to wait, CJM, until Adam Voges has played ANY international cricket at first-class level before anointing him "total world-class."
As for James Franklin? He's a useful player but, by CC1 standards, no more than that, IMO. Did not do much for Notts last season, if memory serves. And no County thought highly enough of him to make him its official overseas player this season (obviously Voges serves in that capacity for Middx). I also think I'm right in saying that Franklin is not a current Test player for his country either. And when he did play Test cricket, he averaged 20 with the bat - hardly a world class figure. Yes, he used to be a very good bowler but those days are long gone and, in any case, that's not really relevant to his batting.
No doubt, both sailed through against us today and did their jobs extremely well, but let's not try and paint them as world-class stars as some kind of device to make us feel better about ourselves. Sangakarra and Jayawardene, they are not.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:20:11:27 by AGod.
As for James Franklin? He's a useful player but, by CC1 standards, no more than that, IMO. Did not do much for Notts last season, if memory serves. And no County thought highly enough of him to make him its official overseas player this season (obviously Voges serves in that capacity for Middx). I also think I'm right in saying that Franklin is not a current Test player for his country either. And when he did play Test cricket, he averaged 20 with the bat - hardly a world class figure. Yes, he used to be a very good bowler but those days are long gone and, in any case, that's not really relevant to his batting.
No doubt, both sailed through against us today and did their jobs extremely well, but let's not try and paint them as world-class stars as some kind of device to make us feel better about ourselves. Sangakarra and Jayawardene, they are not.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:29:20:11:27 by AGod.
Quote:Big Jim
Morning, Bobs.
JS Bach was the better known of the two, but his brother, Bois, was a frightfully good, award winning sausage maker.
I thought you knew that, mun.
A lovely day beckons, perfect for skittling those city slicking softies.
Amazing how such intransigence comes back to haunt you!!
Tybed oes na eiriau mwy hawddgar gyda ti tuag at yr ennillwyr? Nos da - Heddwch !
Ok, I give up.
I've tried searching these words, and I think Tybed means blame.
Nos da is Goodnight, and Heddwch, I think is Peace/
Pobol y Cwm.
I've tried searching these words, and I think Tybed means blame.
Nos da is Goodnight, and Heddwch, I think is Peace/
Pobol y Cwm.
Just serving a large portion of humble pie to the originator !
Basically, enquiring if he now had any praise to offer to the winners - especially having derided our lads in such an unsporting manner.
Basically, enquiring if he now had any praise to offer to the winners - especially having derided our lads in such an unsporting manner.
Well done to the Middlesex lads Snicko.
Unfortunately on here a defeat is nearly always all the fault of our side rather than the other players playing well or even out of their skin in the eyes of some posters.
Others may assume that occasional posters from other counties will understand their particular sense of posting humour immediately
But a reply in Welsh to a supposed 'slander' in Welsh is of very little use to most of us here so maybe both of you ought to continue that aspect via the PM network if required.
Unfortunately on here a defeat is nearly always all the fault of our side rather than the other players playing well or even out of their skin in the eyes of some posters.
Others may assume that occasional posters from other counties will understand their particular sense of posting humour immediately
But a reply in Welsh to a supposed 'slander' in Welsh is of very little use to most of us here so maybe both of you ought to continue that aspect via the PM network if required.
Can we get Meschede back ASAP or is that not possible. Could be pushing both Tregs and Allenby for a starting spot.
I doubt whether we have a recall clause?
Even if we do, I think it would be too big a loss of face for management to contemplate making such a recall so early and without having suffered injuries to those with whom CM would otherwise have been competing for a place.
Even if we do, I think it would be too big a loss of face for management to contemplate making such a recall so early and without having suffered injuries to those with whom CM would otherwise have been competing for a place.
What a fantastic 4 day match!
Clearly not the result we all wanted (except those who thrive on moaning of course)
1400+ runs and 35 wickets, finishing at 6pm on the 4th day.
Jove clearly a huge loss and im convinced we'd have got a lot closer with him in the attack today.
Our attack on our pitch however is sometimes just a bit samey, Trego, Allenby, Tim, Dibble, Alfie, Cove, Lewis and Mesch, all honest/decent likeable but all right arm, 72-82mph seamers, Jove is our only one who is a bit different.
For me it's Alfie and Cove in Sunday for Jove and Tim, we've been told we'll freshen the seam attack up regularly. I'd like Jove in but no sense in taking any risk after the injury in this match.
Nothing against Tim either, just needs freshening up after 2 defeats.
Very little we can do with the batting. I expect Myburgh to come back in for Abell. There is an option to play both but think we are keen on the 5-6-7 of Jim, Alex and PT for now, so don't see us ditching that quite yet.
I'll be at New Road Sunday/Monday so hoping to leave Monday evening with us in a strong position and with win number 1 nearly secured.....
Clearly not the result we all wanted (except those who thrive on moaning of course)
1400+ runs and 35 wickets, finishing at 6pm on the 4th day.
Jove clearly a huge loss and im convinced we'd have got a lot closer with him in the attack today.
Our attack on our pitch however is sometimes just a bit samey, Trego, Allenby, Tim, Dibble, Alfie, Cove, Lewis and Mesch, all honest/decent likeable but all right arm, 72-82mph seamers, Jove is our only one who is a bit different.
For me it's Alfie and Cove in Sunday for Jove and Tim, we've been told we'll freshen the seam attack up regularly. I'd like Jove in but no sense in taking any risk after the injury in this match.
Nothing against Tim either, just needs freshening up after 2 defeats.
Very little we can do with the batting. I expect Myburgh to come back in for Abell. There is an option to play both but think we are keen on the 5-6-7 of Jim, Alex and PT for now, so don't see us ditching that quite yet.
I'll be at New Road Sunday/Monday so hoping to leave Monday evening with us in a strong position and with win number 1 nearly secured.....
Aargh. A chastening experience for the bowlers today. Sometimes I hate that pitch of ours. In hindsight the batting collapse on day 1 lost us the game. Hopefully New Road will offer more to the bowlers and Alf and Craig are available to play.
Yes we have to be aware that we did not have our first choice bowling attack which was further affected by the loss of Jamie for the last day. We also have to be aware that the Middlesex batsmen went about their required job in very efficient fashion.
It might also be worth mentioning that sides with 'journeymen' tend to do better than sides with stars in an English summer. Gloucestershire, Warwickshire.... We've had loads of 'stars' in the past 20 years and we have what to show for it? So let's not write off our non internationals just yet.
Someone on Twitter mentioned that in the last 5 years we have lost both our first CC1 matches on two occasions and finished 2nd and 4th. Haven't won it though (I think one of those years must be the Notts year when we would have won it had the rules not been altered for that season).
A few more 'half full' people still around than anticipated I think at this part of the season but things need to change.
It might also be worth mentioning that sides with 'journeymen' tend to do better than sides with stars in an English summer. Gloucestershire, Warwickshire.... We've had loads of 'stars' in the past 20 years and we have what to show for it? So let's not write off our non internationals just yet.
Someone on Twitter mentioned that in the last 5 years we have lost both our first CC1 matches on two occasions and finished 2nd and 4th. Haven't won it though (I think one of those years must be the Notts year when we would have won it had the rules not been altered for that season).
A few more 'half full' people still around than anticipated I think at this part of the season but things need to change.
Do we know if Lewis Gregory is going to be available for Sunday's Match as I would assume the England squad will meet up before Wednesday?
Somerset were ahead during the game for all but the last two sessions. The loss of Jamie was a massive blow. The men in charge won't admit that it cost us the game but in my opinion , it did.
You can refer back to the first innings batting, but we effectively set a target of 400 plus, which should have been more than enough with a full strength attack. Anyone who watched Jamie during his short hostile spells in the first innings would realise he was our go to bowler to break partnerships, upset the rhythm and test the batsmen's resolve.
That vital cog was integral to a victory. You can counter that with Middx missing Murtagh but he's not the same category of bowler. We would have coped without Gronners for example, because his workload could be covered with Allenby, Tregs etc, Jamie, this season, is completely different and I hope he recovers quickly. I remain optimistic with bowlers like Thomas and Craig O not involved in this match. They will make a difference and Somerset will move forward.
You can refer back to the first innings batting, but we effectively set a target of 400 plus, which should have been more than enough with a full strength attack. Anyone who watched Jamie during his short hostile spells in the first innings would realise he was our go to bowler to break partnerships, upset the rhythm and test the batsmen's resolve.
That vital cog was integral to a victory. You can counter that with Middx missing Murtagh but he's not the same category of bowler. We would have coped without Gronners for example, because his workload could be covered with Allenby, Tregs etc, Jamie, this season, is completely different and I hope he recovers quickly. I remain optimistic with bowlers like Thomas and Craig O not involved in this match. They will make a difference and Somerset will move forward.
Morning all
Looking in from the outside I think MM will be bricking it now. Not signing a top order batter, letting Meschede go on loan, not getting correct early season overseas in. 3 bad decisions and only 2 games in- oh dear, Batting collapses too when he's the batting coach. Time to show his mettle now
If he can turn this around then..................
Looking in from the outside I think MM will be bricking it now. Not signing a top order batter, letting Meschede go on loan, not getting correct early season overseas in. 3 bad decisions and only 2 games in- oh dear, Batting collapses too when he's the batting coach. Time to show his mettle now
If he can turn this around then..................
Quote:just in
Somerset were ahead during the game for all but the last two sessions. The loss of Jamie was a massive blow. The men in charge won't admit that it cost us the game but in my opinion , it did.
What about the absence of Murtagh that let you set the target of 400 in the first place?
You could also say a key point was when Overton got Gubbins out after the rain break. Without the break I think Gubbins would have gone on to get his maiden ton- so Middlesex might have registered a higher first innings score. Prior to that Overton hadn't taken a wicket- so we will never know if he would have gone wicketless in the second innings, or taken a 5 for. His extra pace might simply have made the ball go to the boundary faster.
As with all matches you can say 'If this, If that' but at the end of the day the scorecard is all that counts.
As with all matches you can say 'If this, If that' but at the end of the day the scorecard is all that counts.
Quite right Chunky - the final scorecard is all that counts.
Irrespective of who "won" what individual sessions of play, the strongest side won at the end of the day.
I acknowledge that.
Irrespective of who "won" what individual sessions of play, the strongest side won at the end of the day.
I acknowledge that.
"Bricking it" might be a bit over the top yet Goonie (welcome by the way). He has 'top order batters' but getting them to perform consistently is a problem more than MM have been pushed to solve in the past decade plus.
The middle order building on the base of the front seems to be the problem. Then again, it will be if you have increased the problem of losing CK by sending Mesch on a Welsh holiday for at least a season!! Pete and Jim HAVE to get this sorted and Alex has to find his form. or the top four or five will be least of our problems.
The middle order building on the base of the front seems to be the problem. Then again, it will be if you have increased the problem of losing CK by sending Mesch on a Welsh holiday for at least a season!! Pete and Jim HAVE to get this sorted and Alex has to find his form. or the top four or five will be least of our problems.
Well, I'm still glass-half-full, but I'm sad like that. In two CC games so far, I'd say just Tres, Myburgh, Hildreth and Gregory have really contributed. The rest need to come to the party pretty sharpish. I agree about the sameness of our right-arm seamers and I'm guessing that, once Alf and Cove are ready to return, they will be rotated until some find some form. Although this pitch was said to be an improvement, and 35 wickets in the game is a lot more than we've often had in the past, it still doesn't deteriorate that much, such that (with all due respect to Middx who won very well) chasing 400 on the last day at Taunton is not quite so tough as it would be elsewhere.
Congratulations to Voges, chunky and their team - maybe we'll get revenge later in the season somewhere in the big smoke.
PS AG has a point in that I believe had this game been in late August, Abdur would have been much more likely to have spun them out on day four - but then the first three days would probably have been different too!
Congratulations to Voges, chunky and their team - maybe we'll get revenge later in the season somewhere in the big smoke.
PS AG has a point in that I believe had this game been in late August, Abdur would have been much more likely to have spun them out on day four - but then the first three days would probably have been different too!
Oh, one other thing: I was disappointed enough about losing, before coming on here this morning and realising that it would drag rodders back out of his cave. THAT's ruined my day.
That's unworthy of you, Shepton Paul 2. I hope that you soon get over it.
Yes, WSM, conditions at New Road might favour bowling, especially if Sunday’s very poor forecast is realised.
If I was Worcs I’d be looking at a home game with a Somerset side that is hardly likely to be brim full of confidence as one they have to target for a win, with a draw being of little use in what is likely to be a season-long relegation battle for them.
I’d take one look at a SCCC pace bowling line-up for whom only Lewis Gregory appears to have really fired and think that a seaming track may be the way to go for them. Yes, we might get Alf and Craig O back, but if I was looking at it from a Worcs point of view, then I would hope that those two would be at least a little ring-rusty.
Equally, whilst I’d be concerned, from their point of view, about the form that Hildreth and Treso exhibited in their most recent match, I’d also be thinking that Somerset managed to collapse in pretty spectacular fashion 3 times in 4 innings on what were basically sound batting tracks. And if Somerset cannot manage to string many partnerships together even on good batting tracks...
It’s also not inconceivable that they might attempt to prepare a turner for Senanayake. They have plenty of recent experience of having produced turners at Worcester, for Saeed Ajmal. However, if I were Worcestershire, I wouldn’t want to take the risk of their overseas guy being outbowled by Rehman in those circumstances.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:10:32:52 by AGod.
If I was Worcs I’d be looking at a home game with a Somerset side that is hardly likely to be brim full of confidence as one they have to target for a win, with a draw being of little use in what is likely to be a season-long relegation battle for them.
I’d take one look at a SCCC pace bowling line-up for whom only Lewis Gregory appears to have really fired and think that a seaming track may be the way to go for them. Yes, we might get Alf and Craig O back, but if I was looking at it from a Worcs point of view, then I would hope that those two would be at least a little ring-rusty.
Equally, whilst I’d be concerned, from their point of view, about the form that Hildreth and Treso exhibited in their most recent match, I’d also be thinking that Somerset managed to collapse in pretty spectacular fashion 3 times in 4 innings on what were basically sound batting tracks. And if Somerset cannot manage to string many partnerships together even on good batting tracks...
It’s also not inconceivable that they might attempt to prepare a turner for Senanayake. They have plenty of recent experience of having produced turners at Worcester, for Saeed Ajmal. However, if I were Worcestershire, I wouldn’t want to take the risk of their overseas guy being outbowled by Rehman in those circumstances.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:10:32:52 by AGod.
Quote:Grockle
Yes we have to be aware that we did not have our first choice bowling attack which was further affected by the loss of Jamie for the last day. We also have to be aware that the Middlesex batsmen went about their required job in very efficient fashion.
It might also be worth mentioning that sides with 'journeymen' tend to do better than sides with stars in an English summer. Gloucestershire, Warwickshire.... We've had loads of 'stars' in the past 20 years and we have what to show for it? So let's not write off our non internationals just yet.
Someone on Twitter mentioned that in the last 5 years we have lost both our first CC1 matches on two occasions and finished 2nd and 4th. Haven't won it though (I think one of those years must be the Notts year when we would have won it had the rules not been altered for that season).
A few more 'half full' people still around than anticipated I think at this part of the season but things need to change.
Yes, Grockle. In the era of central contracts, it's perfectly tenable to argue that having a group of players all of whom are decent players, but none of whom are likely to become centrally contracted (and thus lost to their Counties) is possibly the best way to produce on-field success, at least in the short-term.
Of course, the financial incentives for producing England players create something of a short-term/long-term conflict in that regard.
Quote:Haringey RacerQuote:just in
Somerset were ahead during the game for all but the last two sessions. The loss of Jamie was a massive blow. The men in charge won't admit that it cost us the game but in my opinion , it did.
What about the absence of Murtagh that let you set the target of 400 in the first place?
Quite right, Haringey Racer.
And, yes, Jamie Overton apparently bowled very well at the end of the second day to get rid of the likes of Simpson and Rayner. But, overall, there's no doubt that Murtagh has been the more consistent and reliable of the two bowlers over time.
HantsSabre - yes, surprisingly England are allowing everybody from the ODI party to play in the next CC round so Lewis Gregory will be available for selection (and he surely will be selected).
Worcestershire played nine of their current Ist XI - the exceptions were Gareth Andrew and overseas spinner Sachithra Senanayake - in two friendly 20/20 mathes against Somerset Seconds at Taunton Vale yesterday.
Obviously a good ploy to give them match time. Worcestershire won both matches chasing down around 150 each time, with about three wickets left. Best Somerset batting performances were from Josh Davey and Craig Overton, and best bowling in each match from Calvin Harrison, a 16-year-old leg spinner from King`s College, who took 2-11 and 3-20.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:10:51:27 by cricketjerry-mouse.
Obviously a good ploy to give them match time. Worcestershire won both matches chasing down around 150 each time, with about three wickets left. Best Somerset batting performances were from Josh Davey and Craig Overton, and best bowling in each match from Calvin Harrison, a 16-year-old leg spinner from King`s College, who took 2-11 and 3-20.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:10:51:27 by cricketjerry-mouse.
As for Mr Maynard?
He’s been unlucky in certain respects viz two situations that he could not control namely Compton leaving before MM ( I think) had even joined SCCC and the CK electing not to play for the club until his eyesight is restored to his full satisfaction.
In the absence of strong evidence to the contrary, one has to assume that the recruitment decisions – including the decision re: the overseas player were all driven by MM. That may be most obvious in the case of Allenby but he was surely also behind the decisions re: Rehman and Cooper.
Presumably, Matthew Maynard was also the man behind the decision to recruit as many as four different players for T20 cricket. This will have used up budget that could potentially have been used to sign a Kolpak player (as we know both Petersen and Ingram went elsewhere) to strengthen the CC side.
Before somebody tries to tell me that we have a separate budget for T20 and the CC? I don’t care. If it’s that way it’s only because the club has chosen to set it up that way – it’s not the law of the land. Yes, I understand that (I believe) the T20 stuff is exempt from the salary cap, but I have no reason to believe that Somerset are snug up against the salary cap that applies to the CC – especially if, as WSM reported (I think it was him but apologies if not) CK is taking no salary for this season.
To be clear, there is no reason that I know of to believe that, in order to have two overseas players available for T20 at all time, we actually needed to have four T20 signings. Unless Rehman is suddenly co-opted back into the Pakistan party, then he should be available throughout the competition. Therefore, we would need only three players (one to partner Rehman in either half of the competition) to have two overseas available for each game. I understand that the club don’t want to keep Tanvir throughout and would rather replace him with somebody better. But they did not need to replace him with two people and I cannot see any good reason why Rehman should not be very effective as the other overseas player in T20?
He’s been unlucky in certain respects viz two situations that he could not control namely Compton leaving before MM ( I think) had even joined SCCC and the CK electing not to play for the club until his eyesight is restored to his full satisfaction.
In the absence of strong evidence to the contrary, one has to assume that the recruitment decisions – including the decision re: the overseas player were all driven by MM. That may be most obvious in the case of Allenby but he was surely also behind the decisions re: Rehman and Cooper.
Presumably, Matthew Maynard was also the man behind the decision to recruit as many as four different players for T20 cricket. This will have used up budget that could potentially have been used to sign a Kolpak player (as we know both Petersen and Ingram went elsewhere) to strengthen the CC side.
Before somebody tries to tell me that we have a separate budget for T20 and the CC? I don’t care. If it’s that way it’s only because the club has chosen to set it up that way – it’s not the law of the land. Yes, I understand that (I believe) the T20 stuff is exempt from the salary cap, but I have no reason to believe that Somerset are snug up against the salary cap that applies to the CC – especially if, as WSM reported (I think it was him but apologies if not) CK is taking no salary for this season.
To be clear, there is no reason that I know of to believe that, in order to have two overseas players available for T20 at all time, we actually needed to have four T20 signings. Unless Rehman is suddenly co-opted back into the Pakistan party, then he should be available throughout the competition. Therefore, we would need only three players (one to partner Rehman in either half of the competition) to have two overseas available for each game. I understand that the club don’t want to keep Tanvir throughout and would rather replace him with somebody better. But they did not need to replace him with two people and I cannot see any good reason why Rehman should not be very effective as the other overseas player in T20?
No Smoke for the return fixture, Shep. It is being played in Hertfordshire, a totally smokeless zone. Merchant Taylors' School, to be precise.
I wonder which other teams play home matches in another county. I can think of Northants who certainly used to play 1 dayers and matches against sub-continental tourists at Luton in Bedfordshire.
I wonder which other teams play home matches in another county. I can think of Northants who certainly used to play 1 dayers and matches against sub-continental tourists at Luton in Bedfordshire.
Thanks Bobs - I was going to write Lord's, but had a sneaking feeling it was elsewhere, I just couldn't remember where...
As for what I said about rodders, CP, I know I'm a little rude about him, but I believe no worse than he is about others on here, and about the players, management and club he allegedly supports. As I've said before, it's the fact that he only shows up when we've had a bad day or bad game, and never has a good word to say about anyone. Apologies for any sourness 😉
As for what I said about rodders, CP, I know I'm a little rude about him, but I believe no worse than he is about others on here, and about the players, management and club he allegedly supports. As I've said before, it's the fact that he only shows up when we've had a bad day or bad game, and never has a good word to say about anyone. Apologies for any sourness 😉
I'm sure somebody used to (maybe still does) play at Colwyn Bay?
Either Glamorgan or Lancashire?
Colwyn Bay is in neither County.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:11:24:51 by AGod.
Either Glamorgan or Lancashire?
Colwyn Bay is in neither County.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:11:24:51 by AGod.
Also, Durham hosted Warks last season in a one-day game at Gosforth, which is not in County Durham.
Glam at Colwyn Bay - they have traditionally played at grounds all over Wales.
Yes, given that Glamorgan could be said to represent Wales, playing outside the county does seem to make sense.
I hadn't noticed Gosforth. I associate that place more with rugby.
Northants were quite right to play India at Wardown Park, Luton, as they got a very good turnout of locals of South Asian origin. I saw a marvellous partnership there between Tendulkar and Mohammad Azharuddin.
I hadn't noticed Gosforth. I associate that place more with rugby.
Northants were quite right to play India at Wardown Park, Luton, as they got a very good turnout of locals of South Asian origin. I saw a marvellous partnership there between Tendulkar and Mohammad Azharuddin.
Who are our four signings for the T20?
Unless you are talking about the part signings because of people not being available for the whole time I can't name them. If you are talking about that arrangement then there aren't four signings but less 'signings' split between more than one player surely.
It must have been pretty certain in MM's case that Craig K was not going to be available for most of this season and I didn't know we knew when Nick told the management so I'm not even sure MM was unaware he would lose Compo.
Unless you are talking about the part signings because of people not being available for the whole time I can't name them. If you are talking about that arrangement then there aren't four signings but less 'signings' split between more than one player surely.
It must have been pretty certain in MM's case that Craig K was not going to be available for most of this season and I didn't know we knew when Nick told the management so I'm not even sure MM was unaware he would lose Compo.
As I recall, Grockle, when MM joined the club CK was away playing T20 in South Africa and, so far as we knew, doing so happily. It wasn't until after he had played in that competition, I believe, that he made his announcement/decision.
I don't understand what you've written about NC so cannot sensibly reply to that.
So far as the four men that are signed for T20. Yes, we have Rehman and Tanvir available for the first half and Gayle, Anderson and (presumably) Rehman available to pick from for the second half. My point is that we do not need to have three players available to pick from for the second half of T20. Since we already had Rehman contracted, we needed to sign only one of Gayle or Anderson to replace Tanvir.
Signing one of Gayle or Anderson is obviously going to be a cheaper option than signing both of them.
edited to say I checked the chronology re: CK. Maynard joined at the end of September (DN was released early, if I recall correctly). CK's last fixture before he decided he could not continue with his (then) current level of eyesight was on December 3.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:12:57:00 by AGod.
I don't understand what you've written about NC so cannot sensibly reply to that.
So far as the four men that are signed for T20. Yes, we have Rehman and Tanvir available for the first half and Gayle, Anderson and (presumably) Rehman available to pick from for the second half. My point is that we do not need to have three players available to pick from for the second half of T20. Since we already had Rehman contracted, we needed to sign only one of Gayle or Anderson to replace Tanvir.
Signing one of Gayle or Anderson is obviously going to be a cheaper option than signing both of them.
edited to say I checked the chronology re: CK. Maynard joined at the end of September (DN was released early, if I recall correctly). CK's last fixture before he decided he could not continue with his (then) current level of eyesight was on December 3.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:12:57:00 by AGod.
So Maynard knew when everyone else knew - such is the nature of the beast
You talk as if you know when NC informed Somerset of his decision to leave. I don't think you or any of us do so you can't suggest that MM was in some way unprepared for Nick's loss and it wasn't as if he didn't have the whole winter to sort these problems out. It certainly didn't happen after he had decided to send Merch to Glamorgan
Rehman was not signed only for the T20 so the premis that MM seems to have concentrated on the T20 holds less water.
I'm not sure that it is at all obvious that a full time Gayle would be less than a part time Gayle (6 games) and Anderson. We haven't signed two. We've signed two parts of a whole.
So that drops your 2 to one either Gayle and Anderson or Gayle and Tanvir.
The other signing is not a full time one either I don't think. None of these three are available for the whole thing
So the 4 T20 signings become 1 full time international signing in all formats and 1 and a bit T20 signings. Less than some other counties.
You talk as if you know when NC informed Somerset of his decision to leave. I don't think you or any of us do so you can't suggest that MM was in some way unprepared for Nick's loss and it wasn't as if he didn't have the whole winter to sort these problems out. It certainly didn't happen after he had decided to send Merch to Glamorgan
Rehman was not signed only for the T20 so the premis that MM seems to have concentrated on the T20 holds less water.
I'm not sure that it is at all obvious that a full time Gayle would be less than a part time Gayle (6 games) and Anderson. We haven't signed two. We've signed two parts of a whole.
So that drops your 2 to one either Gayle and Anderson or Gayle and Tanvir.
The other signing is not a full time one either I don't think. None of these three are available for the whole thing
So the 4 T20 signings become 1 full time international signing in all formats and 1 and a bit T20 signings. Less than some other counties.
I did not say that MM was "unprepared," for NC's loss. My point was that it was unfortunate in that there was - one assumes - nothing that MM could possibly do to prevent it.
Re: the T20 signings.. the point isn't a "full time Gayle," versus half-time of him and Anderson because CG was never available for the whole tournament.
My point is we already possess Rehman, therefore we need only one of Gayle or Anderson to play the second half of the tournament (in place of Tanvir) alongside Abdur R. The point is that having both Gayle and Anderson part time (say for six games each) is obviously more expensive than having only one of them for six games.
Presumably, the plan is that we will play both of Gayle and Anderson and be paying Abdur R to sit on the sidelines. The fact that we did not sign him specifically for T20 does not, unless otherwise specified in his contract, mean that we won't have to pay him for the second half of the T20 tournament.
Abdur R has, I believe, a career T20 economy rate of 6.3 runs per over. I suggest that anyone with a career economy rate of 6.3 runs per over is probably a rather useful bowler to have in T20 cricket.
Edited to say that MM's comments (linked) make it pretty clear that Mr Rehman is available for the T20. So every reason to suppose that he will be getting paid in the second half of T20, in addition to Mr Gayle and Mr Anderson.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:13:49:13 by AGod.
Re: the T20 signings.. the point isn't a "full time Gayle," versus half-time of him and Anderson because CG was never available for the whole tournament.
My point is we already possess Rehman, therefore we need only one of Gayle or Anderson to play the second half of the tournament (in place of Tanvir) alongside Abdur R. The point is that having both Gayle and Anderson part time (say for six games each) is obviously more expensive than having only one of them for six games.
Presumably, the plan is that we will play both of Gayle and Anderson and be paying Abdur R to sit on the sidelines. The fact that we did not sign him specifically for T20 does not, unless otherwise specified in his contract, mean that we won't have to pay him for the second half of the T20 tournament.
Abdur R has, I believe, a career T20 economy rate of 6.3 runs per over. I suggest that anyone with a career economy rate of 6.3 runs per over is probably a rather useful bowler to have in T20 cricket.
Edited to say that MM's comments (linked) make it pretty clear that Mr Rehman is available for the T20. So every reason to suppose that he will be getting paid in the second half of T20, in addition to Mr Gayle and Mr Anderson.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:13:49:13 by AGod.
Isn't FOUR T20 signings so your premis that MM concentrated his signings on the T20 is incorrect.
Not particular interested in the pendantic twists and turns after that. Made very little difference to our budget given the loss to the wage bill that came with the end of the season and the loss of Compo and CK on full wage.
Not particular interested in the pendantic twists and turns after that. Made very little difference to our budget given the loss to the wage bill that came with the end of the season and the loss of Compo and CK on full wage.
My premise that we have signed more overseas players than we need, in order to be able to field two overseas players in each T20 match is most certainly correct, Grockle. That is the key point in terms of expenditures.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:13:51:23 by AGod.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:13:51:23 by AGod.
Not according to your initial post is isn't.... and that's because your main point was incorrect.
So on we go..
So on we go..
No, we do have four players signed by us who will be available to play T20 which was what I originally stated.
We only needed to contract either:
a) 2 players for the whole tournament
o
b) 1 player for the whole tournament and 2 to play 1 half-each.
but we instead plumped for
c) 1 player available for the whole tournament, 1 available for the first half and two available for the second half.
And (c) was the most expensive way to do it.
We only needed to contract either:
a) 2 players for the whole tournament
o
b) 1 player for the whole tournament and 2 to play 1 half-each.
but we instead plumped for
c) 1 player available for the whole tournament, 1 available for the first half and two available for the second half.
And (c) was the most expensive way to do it.
How do you know which was the most expensive AG? Do you have details of the salaries?
Are you seriously asking me how I know that signing Chris Gayle for 6 games AND Corey Anderson for 6 games would be more expensive than signing ONE of them for 6 games and otherwise using the overseas player that we are already paying anyway (Rehman)?
Because that's what the point amounts to!
Because that's what the point amounts to!
Nah AG it would be one for 6 and one for 6 against 1 for 12 surely (well 16 if you were contracting for the whole thing)? Gosh you are getting yourself into a mess over this aren't you.
Not sure why. You made out we bought 4 for the T20 and we didn't it's simple. Even you are saying we didn't now.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:14:48:44 by Grockle.
Not sure why. You made out we bought 4 for the T20 and we didn't it's simple. Even you are saying we didn't now.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:14:48:44 by Grockle.
NO.
There seem to be severe reading comprehension problems here for you, Grockle.
It's NOT 1 for 6 + 1 for 6 vs 1 for 12.
We already had Rehman for the whole thing. That's one for 12.
Then we added Tanvir for the first half. That's one for 6.
All we needed to replace Tanvir for the second half was 1 other one for 6. But instead we signed 2 for 6.
Gayle AND Anderson for 6 matches each cost more than either man for 6 matches. This really isn't rocket science.
There seem to be severe reading comprehension problems here for you, Grockle.
It's NOT 1 for 6 + 1 for 6 vs 1 for 12.
We already had Rehman for the whole thing. That's one for 12.
Then we added Tanvir for the first half. That's one for 6.
All we needed to replace Tanvir for the second half was 1 other one for 6. But instead we signed 2 for 6.
Gayle AND Anderson for 6 matches each cost more than either man for 6 matches. This really isn't rocket science.
Well it seems to be more than rocket science to you.
We have 16 matches in the season. We can employ 2 internationals for all of them
We have employed one of them for 6. Another of them for another 6 - according to you, or the same 6 or whatever and Tanvir for some other period
Abdur hasn't cost us anything extra for the T20 because he is here by default
So we have three players for the tournament - all at a cheaper rate than having them for the full time (which they couldn't do anyway). no two are covering the whole 16 are they? And I don't think all 3 can be contracted at the same time. Only two at a time
We haven't spent more money than others because at any time only two of them will be playing and no-one (according to my understanding) will be sitting around being paid for the T20 while not playing. That's not extra spending that is efficient spending given the circumstances and the players involved and less than other county's are paying for their big stars for 16 or 32 games.
Twist it however you like. You are simply trying to change the emphasis of what you said and failing quite miserably I'm afraid.
and so, as I say some of us move on from this busted flush of an argument.
We have 16 matches in the season. We can employ 2 internationals for all of them
We have employed one of them for 6. Another of them for another 6 - according to you, or the same 6 or whatever and Tanvir for some other period
Abdur hasn't cost us anything extra for the T20 because he is here by default
So we have three players for the tournament - all at a cheaper rate than having them for the full time (which they couldn't do anyway). no two are covering the whole 16 are they? And I don't think all 3 can be contracted at the same time. Only two at a time
We haven't spent more money than others because at any time only two of them will be playing and no-one (according to my understanding) will be sitting around being paid for the T20 while not playing. That's not extra spending that is efficient spending given the circumstances and the players involved and less than other county's are paying for their big stars for 16 or 32 games.
Twist it however you like. You are simply trying to change the emphasis of what you said and failing quite miserably I'm afraid.
and so, as I say some of us move on from this busted flush of an argument.
Feel sorry for Tresco & James after that defeat.
I can't comment on Marcus's Captaincy in this game as I wasn't there, but to score 200 odd runs & still end up on the losing side must be a pretty tough pill to swallow.
Could/should anything have been done differently in the Middlesex 2nd innings, or was it just a case of us not having the tools to do the job, the moreso given JO's injury ?
Grizzzly
I can't comment on Marcus's Captaincy in this game as I wasn't there, but to score 200 odd runs & still end up on the losing side must be a pretty tough pill to swallow.
Could/should anything have been done differently in the Middlesex 2nd innings, or was it just a case of us not having the tools to do the job, the moreso given JO's injury ?
Grizzzly
"Abdur hasn't cost us anything extra for the T20 because he is here by default."
Yes, the other 3 guys WILL cost us extra. And we won't be getting a rebate on Rehman if we don't pick him for the second half of the season because we've picked Gayle and Anderson instead.
"We haven't spent more money than others because at any time only two of them will be playing and no-one (according to my understanding) will be sitting around being paid for the T20 while not playing. That's not extra spending that is efficient spending given the circumstances and the players involved and less than other county's are paying for their big stars for 16 or 32 games."
So what, pray, according to your understanding, will Abdur Rehman be doing whilst Corey Anderson and Chris Gayle are with us?
Note: I thought this competition was down to 12 games, but it turns out there are actually 14 games.
p.s. it looks like the precise arithmetic on availability will be Tanvir for 7 games, Corey Anderson for either 6 or 7 games (depending on how one reads MM's statement below), Chris Gayle for "Up to 6 games," and Abdur Rehman for all games:
----------------------------
Director of cricket Matt Maynard said: "I am absolutely delighted that Corey is able to join us straight after the New Zealand tour to England concludes.
"He is a very talented all-rounder and strikes the ball well coming in lower in the order, which is vital in T20 cricket.
"Sohail Tanvir will play the first half of the T20 competition and Corey will be playing with us from game eight through to game 14, after which he goes off with New Zealand on another tour."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:16:06:57 by AGod.
Yes, the other 3 guys WILL cost us extra. And we won't be getting a rebate on Rehman if we don't pick him for the second half of the season because we've picked Gayle and Anderson instead.
"We haven't spent more money than others because at any time only two of them will be playing and no-one (according to my understanding) will be sitting around being paid for the T20 while not playing. That's not extra spending that is efficient spending given the circumstances and the players involved and less than other county's are paying for their big stars for 16 or 32 games."
So what, pray, according to your understanding, will Abdur Rehman be doing whilst Corey Anderson and Chris Gayle are with us?
Note: I thought this competition was down to 12 games, but it turns out there are actually 14 games.
p.s. it looks like the precise arithmetic on availability will be Tanvir for 7 games, Corey Anderson for either 6 or 7 games (depending on how one reads MM's statement below), Chris Gayle for "Up to 6 games," and Abdur Rehman for all games:
----------------------------
Director of cricket Matt Maynard said: "I am absolutely delighted that Corey is able to join us straight after the New Zealand tour to England concludes.
"He is a very talented all-rounder and strikes the ball well coming in lower in the order, which is vital in T20 cricket.
"Sohail Tanvir will play the first half of the T20 competition and Corey will be playing with us from game eight through to game 14, after which he goes off with New Zealand on another tour."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:16:06:57 by AGod.
Yes we seem to have moved from criticism of our non starry front end where 3 of the top four have made centuries in the first two matches to 'everyone else'.
We do not have our first bowling attack yet because of the injury to Alfonso and the Overton's who can't seem to stay fit at the same time.
There is certainly justified criticism of the middle order who have contributed very little so far with the bat. I also worry about Groenewald and wonder what Davy and Dibble are doing with themselves at the moment.
But it's early days. Onwards and upwards.
We do not have our first bowling attack yet because of the injury to Alfonso and the Overton's who can't seem to stay fit at the same time.
There is certainly justified criticism of the middle order who have contributed very little so far with the bat. I also worry about Groenewald and wonder what Davy and Dibble are doing with themselves at the moment.
But it's early days. Onwards and upwards.
Grizzly - I personally don't think we should over-state the effect of JO's injury. Yes, he had a really effective spell at the end of day two, I think it was.
But he's hardly a proven match-winner.
I also don't completely buy the 'sameness,' of attack argument other than in the fact that we have no left-arm pacemen. For example, Lewis Gregory, IMO, also has the capacity to bowl really quickly. Not from 6'6 or what have you, but still very quickly. Plus, the signing of an overseas spinner was presumably intended to introduce not only extra quality but also to introduce variety on early season tracks where we might otherwise not have picked a specialist spinner at all.
But he's hardly a proven match-winner.
I also don't completely buy the 'sameness,' of attack argument other than in the fact that we have no left-arm pacemen. For example, Lewis Gregory, IMO, also has the capacity to bowl really quickly. Not from 6'6 or what have you, but still very quickly. Plus, the signing of an overseas spinner was presumably intended to introduce not only extra quality but also to introduce variety on early season tracks where we might otherwise not have picked a specialist spinner at all.
Re: Davey, Grockle, it sounds like he is continuing to do well in the second XI. No idea what Adam is doing.
Quote:Shepton Paul 2
Oh, one other thing: I was disappointed enough about losing, before coming on here this morning and realising that it would drag rodders back out of his cave. THAT's ruined my day.
Well when you have had your hopes ( albeit they may have been false hopes ) dashed on 67 consecutive occasions, come back and give me a lecture on supporting Somerset and how to post on the forum. Until then ignore my posts if they spoil your day !
I still think that it boggles the mind how Somerset manage - on such a consistent basis - to start the CC season in poor fashion.
Is it something in the water?
It's not really acceptable, IMO, for a PROFESSIONAL sports club to be so consistently poor at getting themselves ready to compete and win from the start of a season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:17:18:13 by AGod.
Is it something in the water?
It's not really acceptable, IMO, for a PROFESSIONAL sports club to be so consistently poor at getting themselves ready to compete and win from the start of a season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:04:30:17:18:13 by AGod.
Does not your last paragraph above AGod assume that Somerset are going to "compete and win" during the remainder of the season?
I am not sure how much success they will have in doing that consistently, by virtue of the very nature and strength of the squad.
I live in hope of course.
I am not sure how much success they will have in doing that consistently, by virtue of the very nature and strength of the squad.
I live in hope of course.
Quote:AGod
This really isn't rocket science.
Debates such as those above really make me wish that I had studied Aerospace Engineering, but alas I did not - poor soul that I am!
Somebody said on here that it was a good pitch, yes it was a good pitch but was it good enough?
A quote from MM on the clubs web site.-
“The pitch has been good here for two games, but if we can get a bit more spin and a bit more life out of it on day four to assist our bowlers then that’s something we can take into our next game".
A quote from MM on the clubs web site.-
“The pitch has been good here for two games, but if we can get a bit more spin and a bit more life out of it on day four to assist our bowlers then that’s something we can take into our next game".
Yes, Mike, the one person at the club with whom I have a great deal of sympathy and support for of course, is the Head Groundsman Simon Lee and his hard - working team.
They do a magnificent job and work extremely hard in sometimes difficult circumstances.
IMHO, there have been big improvements to the quality and nature of the pitches that he has provided since he assumed the role a few years ago.
However, no doubt the nature of the soil and the work that was carried out on it before he took charge, have made it extremely difficult to prepare 'ideal' pitches. I have no doubt though that he is very skilled at his job, and follows instructions from those above him.
Perhaps, towards the end of the season some previously used pitches will be re - used again, and then they will be more responsive to "more spin and more life on day four."
In the meantime Sir, many thanks from me for all your team's endeavours and hard work.
They do a magnificent job and work extremely hard in sometimes difficult circumstances.
IMHO, there have been big improvements to the quality and nature of the pitches that he has provided since he assumed the role a few years ago.
However, no doubt the nature of the soil and the work that was carried out on it before he took charge, have made it extremely difficult to prepare 'ideal' pitches. I have no doubt though that he is very skilled at his job, and follows instructions from those above him.
Perhaps, towards the end of the season some previously used pitches will be re - used again, and then they will be more responsive to "more spin and more life on day four."
In the meantime Sir, many thanks from me for all your team's endeavours and hard work.
You must tell us all how awful it's been Rodders!!
Because of course none of us have been through what you have been through it seems, we are just novices to the Somerset experience, mere babes in the woods with no years of watching the club behind us at all.
Have you been watching all those 67 years completely on your own? It must have been a lonely vigil.. though I was under the impression that others posting here were long term supporters as well - even some of the "half full" brigade
Tell you what, why don't you join us on the good days AND the bad days and maybe the warmth of some small success may help those troubled, bitter and twisted brows. A frown is just a smile the wrong way around you know.
Because of course none of us have been through what you have been through it seems, we are just novices to the Somerset experience, mere babes in the woods with no years of watching the club behind us at all.
Have you been watching all those 67 years completely on your own? It must have been a lonely vigil.. though I was under the impression that others posting here were long term supporters as well - even some of the "half full" brigade
Tell you what, why don't you join us on the good days AND the bad days and maybe the warmth of some small success may help those troubled, bitter and twisted brows. A frown is just a smile the wrong way around you know.
Not going to get embroiled in any bickering here but just want to say thet salaries for players contracted solely for T20 duties ARE counted in the salary cap.
Also whether or not CK has chosen to take his salary this season I would have a suspicion since he is still 'contracted' to Somerset his salary will still count as far as the salary cap is concerned.
Also whether or not CK has chosen to take his salary this season I would have a suspicion since he is still 'contracted' to Somerset his salary will still count as far as the salary cap is concerned.
Isn't there a possibility that CK's salary is covered, in part at least, by some kind of insurance policy?
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Maybe - which may be of benefit to SCCC coffers but would be irrelevant to the ECB regs
Somebody said on here that it was a good pitch, yes it was a good pitch but was it good enough?
A quote from MM on the clubs web site.-
“The pitch has been good here for two games, but if we can get a bit more spin and a bit more life out of it on day four to assist our bowlers then that’s something we can take into our next game".
-------------
I saw that too, Mike, and my immediate thought was 'The next game is at New Road.'
But, seriously, it's not exactly a secret that the majority of games won at Taunton over the past 5 years or so have been won by the team that has batted last.
I do wonder, a bit, whether MT decided to bat vs Durham, in part because we had Rehman. If one has a 'star overseas spinner,' might that pre-dispose one to batting first in matches where one would otherwise bowl first?
It must be a matter of concern that we have already squandered two of our eight home matches. We cannot expect many opponents to aim to prepare turning tracks, so if Rehman is going to have a big effect, one would imagine that it would be mainly in home games.
A quote from MM on the clubs web site.-
“The pitch has been good here for two games, but if we can get a bit more spin and a bit more life out of it on day four to assist our bowlers then that’s something we can take into our next game".
-------------
I saw that too, Mike, and my immediate thought was 'The next game is at New Road.'
But, seriously, it's not exactly a secret that the majority of games won at Taunton over the past 5 years or so have been won by the team that has batted last.
I do wonder, a bit, whether MT decided to bat vs Durham, in part because we had Rehman. If one has a 'star overseas spinner,' might that pre-dispose one to batting first in matches where one would otherwise bowl first?
It must be a matter of concern that we have already squandered two of our eight home matches. We cannot expect many opponents to aim to prepare turning tracks, so if Rehman is going to have a big effect, one would imagine that it would be mainly in home games.
No Leadership, linked to a very weak bowling attack "Yes Rehmann NOT good enough for overseas bowler" far better options out there. Along with the " not hungry for success players " Its another "usual Somerset CCC season"
Yes one might almost call it an 'average' one at this moment in time.
Sorry it's early smallfry. Are your quotes about Rehman and hunger from here or from some tome/report elsewhere?
We don't need him to be good enough for overseas...just English pitches. He has in the recent past given us some reason for optimism on that point.. And presently we've only seen him at home....
I'd say 'let's give it time' but I'd predict that instant gratification is what you are after and even that may not be enough for you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:02:05:16:26 by Grockle.
Sorry it's early smallfry. Are your quotes about Rehman and hunger from here or from some tome/report elsewhere?
We don't need him to be good enough for overseas...just English pitches. He has in the recent past given us some reason for optimism on that point.. And presently we've only seen him at home....
I'd say 'let's give it time' but I'd predict that instant gratification is what you are after and even that may not be enough for you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:02:05:16:26 by Grockle.
I think you are both most probably right Bag/LoL. If CK is taking little part in the summer at the moment one might assume that his salary is not what a full playing member would get. He certainly isn't getting bonuses etc.
One would also assume that an outfit that seems, on the basis of the yearly evidence to have its financial head screwed on (despite opinions here to the contrary) would employ measures to deal with such things in the case of long term injury.
It would surely seem daft not to when one of the main draws of your season is not putting bums on seats because he can't physically play the game presently.
One would also assume that an outfit that seems, on the basis of the yearly evidence to have its financial head screwed on (despite opinions here to the contrary) would employ measures to deal with such things in the case of long term injury.
It would surely seem daft not to when one of the main draws of your season is not putting bums on seats because he can't physically play the game presently.
I personally doubt very much whether an insurance company would cover CK's wages for this season.
The reason why I say this is that it isn't true that he's currently physically incapable of continuing with his County cricket career due to injury. Rather, it is true that he does not *feel* that he wants to play at anything less than his best, eye-sight wise.
Given that he's already proved (vs Middx last season) that he was capable of playing effectively AFTER the injury then unless the club could provide medical evidence that his eyesight has got worse since the end of last season ( a suggestion which I have not seen anywhere) and that it is due to the injury that he suffered, then I can't see why an insurance company would pay out?
Let's face it, insurance companies are NOT noted for their generosity and good will over and above the specific terms of the contract (including all of its fine print).
It was reported, on here, that CK has, in any case, elected to not take his salary for this season.
The reason why I say this is that it isn't true that he's currently physically incapable of continuing with his County cricket career due to injury. Rather, it is true that he does not *feel* that he wants to play at anything less than his best, eye-sight wise.
Given that he's already proved (vs Middx last season) that he was capable of playing effectively AFTER the injury then unless the club could provide medical evidence that his eyesight has got worse since the end of last season ( a suggestion which I have not seen anywhere) and that it is due to the injury that he suffered, then I can't see why an insurance company would pay out?
Let's face it, insurance companies are NOT noted for their generosity and good will over and above the specific terms of the contract (including all of its fine print).
It was reported, on here, that CK has, in any case, elected to not take his salary for this season.
Taunton is billed as the bowlers' graveyard but Lewis Gregory has overcome one of the most batsman-friendly venues in the country to earn an unexpected call up for England's ODI against Ireland next week. [www.espncricinfo.com]
Tired journalism.
WAS billed that way by mostly Londoners but hasn't really been predictable for a number of years.
Andy Caddick overcame it
Graham Rose overcame it
Richard Johnson overcame it
Ian Blackwell overcame it
Charl Willoughby overcame it
Dirk Nannes overcame it
Alfonso Thomas overcame it
Peter Trego overcame it
'unexpected'? Well not really given the circumstances and his progress over the last couple of seasons.
He is still under the tutelage of Jason Kerr and not Matthew Maynard who is the DoC not the bowling coach.
But well done Lewis anyway.
But it makes for an easy story I suppose.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:01:14:44:35 by Grockle.
I do not know if it is true, Grockle, but I do recall FE suggesting that Alex Winter, who became a cricinfo journalist and our erstwhile poster, KT, are in fact one and the same.
Hello all. Just back from my holiday.
I'm glad I've had a few days to digest the result before coming on to post-it gives me a little time and perspective.
Positives-
I'm really really pleased about MT and JH batting form and generally the starts we have had to both games. I hope that its not a one off but they can sustain their efforts across the season.
Batting first on both occassions we have brought up the double hundred for the loss of only a couple of wickets.
Jamie has seemed on commentary and economy/SR better than last season when he appeared to be quick but a novice. COverton will shortly return as will Thomas who will both strengthen the attack.
I still think LG despite being one of the least talked-up young players shows enormous promise. I still scratch my head that his batting is reported to be his stronger discipline.
For me this IS and has been for the last 2 seasons a team in transition. They are punching above their weight just to be in Div 1 never mind comfortably maintaining that over a period of time and talk of titles was always fanciful when you factor in the pitch too. the only reason I am of the glass half-full brigade is that i dream of better and like all armchair supporters don't agree with all decisions. As a supporter that is my right.
Negatives-
Unfortunately none of the new signings have hit the ground running. It was always unlikely that Rehmann would enjoy early season success, and i think both Leach and Dockrell deserve a crack of the whip. He could have been brought in later had they struggled. Allenby has dissappointed and has acut a frustrated figure. Hes batting too high for me and arguably has been underbowled. Cooper just needs some runs to get going. They're all good but currently not making the difference we hoped for.
Obviously the collapses are undesirable. I fear that we have too many attacking or counterattacking players in the lineup, and comparatively few who are willing to indulge in crease occupation. I wouldn't ever try to change the likes of PT to a blocker. But sides should strive for a mix of playing styles.
Ruthlessness. You can make a good argument that Somerset have been bossing the matches both times after 60 overs of their first innings. Regardless of their ambitions they must consoliate winning positions rather than letting teams back in.
I too dislike the bowlers graveyard tag on Taunton Grockle. If a player can overcome conditions and take 50 wkts a season at Taunton (more if you're Caddick) that would suggest to me that they will be a threat on all types of surfaces rather than ONLY green tops and should therefore be more than a one-dimensional traditional English seamer. Kevin Hand was impressed by the bounce at Taunton something which our Aussie friends accuse us of never producing. The groundstaff do a terrific job. I think the pitch at Taunton would make for a terrific test match-better than most of the competing test grounds, even if the venue is inappropriate for such an event...
I'm glad I've had a few days to digest the result before coming on to post-it gives me a little time and perspective.
Positives-
I'm really really pleased about MT and JH batting form and generally the starts we have had to both games. I hope that its not a one off but they can sustain their efforts across the season.
Batting first on both occassions we have brought up the double hundred for the loss of only a couple of wickets.
Jamie has seemed on commentary and economy/SR better than last season when he appeared to be quick but a novice. COverton will shortly return as will Thomas who will both strengthen the attack.
I still think LG despite being one of the least talked-up young players shows enormous promise. I still scratch my head that his batting is reported to be his stronger discipline.
For me this IS and has been for the last 2 seasons a team in transition. They are punching above their weight just to be in Div 1 never mind comfortably maintaining that over a period of time and talk of titles was always fanciful when you factor in the pitch too. the only reason I am of the glass half-full brigade is that i dream of better and like all armchair supporters don't agree with all decisions. As a supporter that is my right.
Negatives-
Unfortunately none of the new signings have hit the ground running. It was always unlikely that Rehmann would enjoy early season success, and i think both Leach and Dockrell deserve a crack of the whip. He could have been brought in later had they struggled. Allenby has dissappointed and has acut a frustrated figure. Hes batting too high for me and arguably has been underbowled. Cooper just needs some runs to get going. They're all good but currently not making the difference we hoped for.
Obviously the collapses are undesirable. I fear that we have too many attacking or counterattacking players in the lineup, and comparatively few who are willing to indulge in crease occupation. I wouldn't ever try to change the likes of PT to a blocker. But sides should strive for a mix of playing styles.
Ruthlessness. You can make a good argument that Somerset have been bossing the matches both times after 60 overs of their first innings. Regardless of their ambitions they must consoliate winning positions rather than letting teams back in.
I too dislike the bowlers graveyard tag on Taunton Grockle. If a player can overcome conditions and take 50 wkts a season at Taunton (more if you're Caddick) that would suggest to me that they will be a threat on all types of surfaces rather than ONLY green tops and should therefore be more than a one-dimensional traditional English seamer. Kevin Hand was impressed by the bounce at Taunton something which our Aussie friends accuse us of never producing. The groundstaff do a terrific job. I think the pitch at Taunton would make for a terrific test match-better than most of the competing test grounds, even if the venue is inappropriate for such an event...
Quote:AGod
I do not know if it is true, Grockle, but I do recall FE suggesting that Alex Winter, who became a cricinfo journalist and our erstwhile poster, KT, are in fact one and the same.
If he did suggest that, AGod, then he is wrong.
How right you are Shep altered to remember the correct great man.
If only it were true Ag then the story would be even more tired than it already is.
If only it were true Ag then the story would be even more tired than it already is.
Excellent analysis Tom. Fair and pretty much balanced... not something we get all that much of here at the start of a Somerset season.
There's always that hope of a title and that things will go our way when we may not be supposed to be in the hunt. I'd personally rather be an underdog as this side has never really worked at its best when expected to do something. Some of the best matches I have personally seen were against the odds unplanned victories (and the odd loss with some fight).
At least it keeps the season fresh and mucks about with the heads of our pessimism branch. Gotta take it as it comes because it rarely comes wrapped the way you expect it to be. Though some of course never learn.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:02:05:14:55 by Grockle.
There's always that hope of a title and that things will go our way when we may not be supposed to be in the hunt. I'd personally rather be an underdog as this side has never really worked at its best when expected to do something. Some of the best matches I have personally seen were against the odds unplanned victories (and the odd loss with some fight).
At least it keeps the season fresh and mucks about with the heads of our pessimism branch. Gotta take it as it comes because it rarely comes wrapped the way you expect it to be. Though some of course never learn.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:02:05:14:55 by Grockle.
I'm not sure that CK has been ruled out for the season just because he doesn't 'feel' like playing because he doesn't think he would play quite as well as he was before the injury. Eyesight is crucial to this sport - both for batting and keeping wicket - a small percentage decrease in capacity (especially if it happens suddenly, rather than over a period of months to years as would happen with normal aging changes) is going to affect performance and of course be a safety issue as well.
You say AG that CK seemed to prove he was more than capable at Middlesex towards the end of last season; I was not there but I saw him play at Headingley in the last match of the season and with the benefit of hindsight (which is always 20/20) would say there was certainly reason for concern - although maybe any batsman, perfect vision or not, would have struggled with Jack Brooks' fiery spell.
Fom what Matt Maynard told us at the Long Room luch just before the season started - and there was not a lot of medical detail - the eye itself is not the problem (unlike Boucher the eye did not suffer a penetrating injury, just impact and bruising). The problem is the surrounding tissues - including a complex network of nerves and muscles that control the positioning and movement of the eye, which have a profound effect on th ability to pick up, focus on and follow a moving object. The sort of injury - and treatment, which was recontructive urgery in this delecate area - would result in inflammation and swelling in the first instance but in the longer term scar tissue formation would be quite likely which could also hamper the return to pre-injury function. It is quite possible that chronic changes post-injury actually made matters worse between the time you saw him bat v Middlesex and when he finally had to admit there was a problem when playing later in the year.
Much of this of course is speculation on my part based on my knowledge of the anatomy of the area involved and how tissues rspond to injury or trauma - both accidental and surgically inflicted. I do not know exact medical details - and although I always have the curiosity of a medical mind, (the number of times when marcus was on crutches and I wanted to say 'show us yer scars!) I also have respect for an individual's privacy of his medical history. Craig is bein treated by specialists in their field who understand how crucial this is to his career, he in turn will work as hard as possible to get back to where he once was. We may not see him in Somerset colours this season but I hope for all concerned he will be back in the future.
You say AG that CK seemed to prove he was more than capable at Middlesex towards the end of last season; I was not there but I saw him play at Headingley in the last match of the season and with the benefit of hindsight (which is always 20/20) would say there was certainly reason for concern - although maybe any batsman, perfect vision or not, would have struggled with Jack Brooks' fiery spell.
Fom what Matt Maynard told us at the Long Room luch just before the season started - and there was not a lot of medical detail - the eye itself is not the problem (unlike Boucher the eye did not suffer a penetrating injury, just impact and bruising). The problem is the surrounding tissues - including a complex network of nerves and muscles that control the positioning and movement of the eye, which have a profound effect on th ability to pick up, focus on and follow a moving object. The sort of injury - and treatment, which was recontructive urgery in this delecate area - would result in inflammation and swelling in the first instance but in the longer term scar tissue formation would be quite likely which could also hamper the return to pre-injury function. It is quite possible that chronic changes post-injury actually made matters worse between the time you saw him bat v Middlesex and when he finally had to admit there was a problem when playing later in the year.
Much of this of course is speculation on my part based on my knowledge of the anatomy of the area involved and how tissues rspond to injury or trauma - both accidental and surgically inflicted. I do not know exact medical details - and although I always have the curiosity of a medical mind, (the number of times when marcus was on crutches and I wanted to say 'show us yer scars!) I also have respect for an individual's privacy of his medical history. Craig is bein treated by specialists in their field who understand how crucial this is to his career, he in turn will work as hard as possible to get back to where he once was. We may not see him in Somerset colours this season but I hope for all concerned he will be back in the future.
Anything is possible, but there was zero suggestion in any of the stuff that came out from/about CK, that his eyesight had got *worse* since the end of the season.
What was said was that things "had not improved at the rate that CK had hoped."
I suppose it's possible that things might have got a bit worse, slowly, after surgery without the player necessarily noticing anything specific, but that's definitely not what was said.
What was said was that things "had not improved at the rate that CK had hoped."
I suppose it's possible that things might have got a bit worse, slowly, after surgery without the player necessarily noticing anything specific, but that's definitely not what was said.
I'm also not his confidant or his doctor but I got the impression that it is more a perception issue than an eyesight detail issue isn't it?
I went to watch the new Avengers film yesterday in 3D and could not work with it I'm afraid because of the quality of the glasses provided. Although the film was perfectly clear, movement through the 3D glasses made it difficult to watch as my brain seemed to struggle to process the movement at the correct speed given the equipment I had at my disposal. Better glasses would make the 3D easier to process. Or maybe I just need a new brain!!
I think that is more the problem CK is facing. He can see things perfectly well but is finding reacting to movement more difficult because the tools at his disposal for processing that movement are below par. The work being done is looking to improve his "glasses" by making the interaction between the things moving his eyes and the processing section of his brain smoother. They can't change the brain but they can improve the movement of his eyes and therefore give the brain better data to work with.
Total layman's explanation.
Watch The Avengers in 2D I doubt you'll miss all that much and will enjoy it much more.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:03:11:12:41 by Grockle.
I went to watch the new Avengers film yesterday in 3D and could not work with it I'm afraid because of the quality of the glasses provided. Although the film was perfectly clear, movement through the 3D glasses made it difficult to watch as my brain seemed to struggle to process the movement at the correct speed given the equipment I had at my disposal. Better glasses would make the 3D easier to process. Or maybe I just need a new brain!!
I think that is more the problem CK is facing. He can see things perfectly well but is finding reacting to movement more difficult because the tools at his disposal for processing that movement are below par. The work being done is looking to improve his "glasses" by making the interaction between the things moving his eyes and the processing section of his brain smoother. They can't change the brain but they can improve the movement of his eyes and therefore give the brain better data to work with.
Total layman's explanation.
Watch The Avengers in 2D I doubt you'll miss all that much and will enjoy it much more.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:03:11:12:41 by Grockle.
Many thanks, Baggers for what was - at least to this layman - a very clear explanation.
If you are talking about the post above Wickham I am flattered but I doubt I could ever be as clear as Ms Bag.
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