Somerset
Yorkshire Crossroads?
Won't be seeing this
By Grockle et al
May 28 2013
Somerset's Championship form is still offering challenges to the players and management alike. Poor to abysmal performances in the last few games have started the search for scapegoats from the captain to the new DoC, David Nosworthy. The players on the pitch need to calm things down by starting to bat and bowl like the professionals we mostly know them to be. Not easy when you are hit by international call ups and injuries to key players such as Alfonso Thomas..
v Yorkshire CC1 @ TAUNTON Tuesday 28 May 2013
Home Commentary
Point your mouse at George Dockrell's head at the top of any page for SCCC commentary
The loss of Jos Buttler and Alviro Petersen plus the injuries to Craig Kieswetter and now Alfonso Thomas will badly affect the resources Marcus Trescothick has to put out a competitive side for this very important Championship match. There is no bed of points already gained to help him. We have played badly and are suffering because of it and now we are undermanned in a game that must start the move back up the CC1 table. We cannot afford another 1 and a half day thrashing by our opponents as happend at Horsham against Sussex.
Some good news in that George Dockrell has returned to the fold after a good series for his country against Pakistan and Dean Elgar joins us as the international replacement but that is about all the good news there is. Marcus chooses from;
Trascothick, Suppiah, Elgar, Hildreth,Trego, Meschede, Barrow, Dockrell, Kirby, Overton J, Gregory, Hussain
The only decision is really whether this is the first time this season we see Gemaal Hussain or is the returning Lewis Gregory fit enough to bowl for a full four day game? That seems highly unlikely, so either we are going in with two main seamers and expecting Craig and Peter to shoulder the rest of the seam attack (George and Arul to provide slow options) while Lewis is picked to enhance the batting or we will bring Gemaal in as an extra seam option to take the pressure off the allrounders a bit.
Seeing as our main issue in the longer format has been managing to bat over 200 it will probably be the former option but looking at the way our bowling attack allowed Leicestershire to overhaul 328 on Sunday in 40 overs either option is possible. Unfortunately there is little information forthcoming about why the tall ex Gloucestershire man has been out of favour over the last month or so or how serious the side strain Gregory suffered was.
Unfortunately the present weather forcast may make the team selection irrelevant. At 9:00am, although the rain seems to have stopped for the moment, the prediction is for more rain to come and presently a reading of 94% humidity with no relevant wind. This prediction (which is as near 100% as is likely to make any difference) sees that position remaining until about 7:00pm so unless something drastic happens we can effectively write off the first day of this game. Day 2 looks a little more pormising but Days 3 and 4 do not offer much hope of a prolonged period of play during this game.
This does not help Somerset but it does not harm them against Yorkshire because we are one of the White Rose's games in hand (they have played one less than we have) so low points aginst us does not worsen our position but it does move others further away if they manage to get games to results. The best situation for us if we do not play this week at Taunton is that there is little play across the country and a large number of low bonus point draws.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 28/05/2013 07:42
Grockles.com
28/05/2013 07:42
28/05/2013 07:42
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:01:09:22:15 by Grockle.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:01:09:22:15 by Grockle.
Liam Plunkett has joined Jack Brooks and Azeem Rafiq on the injured list.
Tim Bresnan will be unavailable.
So - on paper - Yorkshire have nobody that should be close to the quality of Magoffin.
Pace attack will presumably be Sidebottom, Patterson and Pyrah.
Having said that two of those three managed to give us some trouble in Leeds.
But, still, it looks a fair opportunity to recover some batting form if we can find a way to life ourselves out of the current mental trough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:08:17:35 by Grockle.
Tim Bresnan will be unavailable.
So - on paper - Yorkshire have nobody that should be close to the quality of Magoffin.
Pace attack will presumably be Sidebottom, Patterson and Pyrah.
Having said that two of those three managed to give us some trouble in Leeds.
But, still, it looks a fair opportunity to recover some batting form if we can find a way to life ourselves out of the current mental trough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:08:17:35 by Grockle.
Reminder to everyone that start of play on day one (Tuesday) is 12 noon NOT 11am because Yorkshire have a YB40 match against Middlesex on Monday.
Days 2-4 at the usual time.
Days 2-4 at the usual time.
I'm also very pleased, Bagpuss, that you are one of an apparently dwindling number of people who know that 12am and 12pm do not exist.
They did announce this before the start of the Middx Pro 40 but you may not yet have left home at that stage, Mike.
They also announced it after the pro40 game as well as a couple of times in the cc game v middx too!!!
I may have been there at that time AG, but the sound system in the Gimblett's Hill area is not very good I often have to ask what was said.
But the man that counts, Flower, has already made the point pretty emphatically that they intend to take things slowly with Root.
Subtle comparisons here. Don't openly criticise the man you want too replace, just keep making comparisons whether they are relevant or not. Mention his achievements but denigrate how they were made just keep the negativity flowing.
Atherton has been joined by a claque of many others, including Vaughan, who I believe runs a management company with Root on its books. A disclaimer is usually in order in such cases.
I wonder what Compton has actually done to spark such opposition – is it leaving Middlesex or being one Saffer too many? The advocates must surely realise that Root still needs time to become a test match opener or are they hypnotised by the power of 'Yorkshireness'?
I wonder what Compton has actually done to spark such opposition – is it leaving Middlesex or being one Saffer too many? The advocates must surely realise that Root still needs time to become a test match opener or are they hypnotised by the power of 'Yorkshireness'?
If Nick misses out on the Ashes then it's more likely, IMO, that Trott will open than Root.
At least he has a chance to get County Runs that Bairstow doesn't. Assuming he isn't "rested", he has CC games against Durham and Derbyshire as well as the tour match.
Bairstow in the Champions trophy squad (and probably not in the ideal first XI).
He'd probably want to play in this game too if England wrap it up tomorrow, though of course the England management would never allow it.
Bairstow in the Champions trophy squad (and probably not in the ideal first XI).
He'd probably want to play in this game too if England wrap it up tomorrow, though of course the England management would never allow it.
Nick's failures in these two Tests have surely all but guaranteed that he won't be rested vs Durham or Derbyshire.
If England do win tomorrow (I personally doubt the declaration will come early enough) then England should let Compton play vs Yorkshire ... He's hardly likely to have become exhausted by playing this game.
Must agree it's unlikely that they would do, though.
If England do win tomorrow (I personally doubt the declaration will come early enough) then England should let Compton play vs Yorkshire ... He's hardly likely to have become exhausted by playing this game.
Must agree it's unlikely that they would do, though.
Quote:Mike TA1
Thanks Bagpuss that's the first I have heard of it.
They announced it at least three times last Sunday, Mike.
Yorkshire 12-man squad to face Somerset:
Bresnan, Bairstow and Root all on England duty, along with Compo and Jos in differing formats.
Moin Ashraf, Gary Ballance, Ben Coad, Andrew Gale ©, Andrew Hodd (wk), Phil Jaques, Adam Lyth, Steve Patterson, Richard Pyrah, Adil Rashid, Joe Sayers, Ryan Sidebottom.
On my assumption (with no inside knowledge) I would expect/hope our line up to be.
Tres, Arul, Elgar, Hildy, Craig K, Barrow/Meschede/Gregory, Trego, Kirby, Alfie/Hussain, Leach/George, JOVE
Bresnan, Bairstow and Root all on England duty, along with Compo and Jos in differing formats.
Moin Ashraf, Gary Ballance, Ben Coad, Andrew Gale ©, Andrew Hodd (wk), Phil Jaques, Adam Lyth, Steve Patterson, Richard Pyrah, Adil Rashid, Joe Sayers, Ryan Sidebottom.
On my assumption (with no inside knowledge) I would expect/hope our line up to be.
Tres, Arul, Elgar, Hildy, Craig K, Barrow/Meschede/Gregory, Trego, Kirby, Alfie/Hussain, Leach/George, JOVE
I doubt Craig K will make it.
If Alf was unable to bowl more than 2 overs at Leicester, will he be worth risking for a 4 day game?
Tres needs some control in the field so really hope we get both SLAs in.
Assuming that neither Craig K nor Alf are fit;
Tres
Arul
Elgar
Hildreth
Trego
Meschede
Barrow (wkt)
George
Jack
Kirby
Jamie Overton
Outside of Max and Hussain, I suspect the above may be all we have available, assuming that Dibble, Gregory and Craig Overton are all still injured.
If Alf was unable to bowl more than 2 overs at Leicester, will he be worth risking for a 4 day game?
Tres needs some control in the field so really hope we get both SLAs in.
Assuming that neither Craig K nor Alf are fit;
Tres
Arul
Elgar
Hildreth
Trego
Meschede
Barrow (wkt)
George
Jack
Kirby
Jamie Overton
Outside of Max and Hussain, I suspect the above may be all we have available, assuming that Dibble, Gregory and Craig Overton are all still injured.
In my opinion there is no way in the world we will ever select George and Jack.
On here it is talked about and even in selection they talk about it as being an option but I can't recall in my 18 years us ever selecting 2 out and out spinners for a 4 day game, not through choice anyway (last year at Durham due to only having 11 men fir I think George and Max played)
I did spot Barrow yesterday doing quite a bit of keeping practice on the outfield so yes putting 2+2 together and making 4 I think Alex may well be keeping tomorrow, as normal no information at all on Craig from the club.
Trego at 5 in the 4 day game looks mighty high based on current form (maybe open with him and tell him to pretend it's a Sunday!)
On here it is talked about and even in selection they talk about it as being an option but I can't recall in my 18 years us ever selecting 2 out and out spinners for a 4 day game, not through choice anyway (last year at Durham due to only having 11 men fir I think George and Max played)
I did spot Barrow yesterday doing quite a bit of keeping practice on the outfield so yes putting 2+2 together and making 4 I think Alex may well be keeping tomorrow, as normal no information at all on Craig from the club.
Trego at 5 in the 4 day game looks mighty high based on current form (maybe open with him and tell him to pretend it's a Sunday!)
Quote:wsm fan
Yorkshire 12-man squad Moin Ashraf, Gary Ballance, Ben Coad, Andrew Gale ©, Andrew Hodd (wk), Phil Jaques, Adam Lyth, Steve Patterson, Richard Pyrah, Adil Rashid, Joe Sayers, Ryan Sidebottom.
If Sidebottom looks as if he might be bowling too well, lets get Tractor to invite him to the Coal Orchard!!!
Pete did make 80 or so vs Middx. That's a higher score than either Barrow or Meschede have ever made!
It is a bit high for Pete, but then I don't see sensible alternatives?
As for the two spinners? Had both ever been simultaneously available then I think we surely WOULD have picked Rehman and George in the same side last season!? I mean the tracks by all accounts turned considerably.
Either way my team is predicated on the assumption that only those XI, plus Waller and Hussain may be available.
As to prior seasons when we didn't pick two spinners - how often did we ever have two worth picking?
Post Mushtaq and pre-George and Rehman spin had become a major weakness for SCCC e.g. Omari Banks.
I now see it as a potential strength of the club.
It is a bit high for Pete, but then I don't see sensible alternatives?
As for the two spinners? Had both ever been simultaneously available then I think we surely WOULD have picked Rehman and George in the same side last season!? I mean the tracks by all accounts turned considerably.
Either way my team is predicated on the assumption that only those XI, plus Waller and Hussain may be available.
As to prior seasons when we didn't pick two spinners - how often did we ever have two worth picking?
Post Mushtaq and pre-George and Rehman spin had become a major weakness for SCCC e.g. Omari Banks.
I now see it as a potential strength of the club.
Yorkshire also have several left-handers and they often have to deal with rough outside off-stump.
I think CK will be back next Sunday at best so Alex will probably keep. Just a hunch. Therefore my team would be MT, AS, DE, JH, CM, PT, AB, AT, GD, JO and GH. If AT is not fit then maybe DIbble or CO if they are fit. No place for Kirby in that and Hussain has to be given a shot. can he do any worse? I suppose if Gregory can play as a batsman he might figure too.
We shall see, i think there is about as much chance of NZ winning this test match as us selecting 2 spinners, especially with Arul as an option, it just will not happen, trust me.....
I think Hussain is not what is needed. We need to be hard to beat first of all. I think Alf will probably be out and an attack featuring all three of Jamie O, Kirby and Hussain would have too much potential to go round the park. This would almost compel our spinner to bowl in purely defensive mode and might force Pete to bowl defensively too.
You're probably right, wsm, but I personally think it's high time that we tried something different. I'm tired of hearing about our quicks running in and bowling far too much short/wayward stuff.
Yep i am not against 2 spinners at all, especially when Rehman arrives but i'm quite sure they will not do it this week and i'd even be highly surprised if we do it in August.
We are always so scared of weakening batting line up or not having enough seamers it's just not something we ever seriously give thought to doing.
We are always so scared of weakening batting line up or not having enough seamers it's just not something we ever seriously give thought to doing.
Rather hear that our spinners have been taken to the cleaners on pitches not suited to one of them let alone two?
Very simply, Grockle, I think our two young spinners will bring greater prospective control than a 4 main seamer plus one spinner attack.
In any event, who says the pitch will be unsuited?
Last season, George took six for naff all vs Middx in April. He took six for naff all versus Durham in May
Then there were 2 more home games where Rehman took a hatful of wickets.
4 of 8 home matches saw plenty of wickets fall to spin. 3 of these games were won. In the other, Panesar took 13 wickets.
Jack Leach already has a five-for in one of two home CC matches this season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:12:09:28 by AGod.
In any event, who says the pitch will be unsuited?
Last season, George took six for naff all vs Middx in April. He took six for naff all versus Durham in May
Then there were 2 more home games where Rehman took a hatful of wickets.
4 of 8 home matches saw plenty of wickets fall to spin. 3 of these games were won. In the other, Panesar took 13 wickets.
Jack Leach already has a five-for in one of two home CC matches this season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:12:09:28 by AGod.
To sum up, in 50 percent of our last 10 home matches, a Somerset spinner has had at least one five-wicket innings return in the match.
AGod: You are coming dangerously near to saying that Taunton is not killing cricket. That will never do.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
It was alive last season, LoL!
And we've not exactly had two bore draws on it this season!
And we've not exactly had two bore draws on it this season!
And Jeetan Patel also took 7 in our first innings last season!
So, last season at least we were capable of producing turning tracks.
Might be tougher vs the heavy roller but let's give it a go!
So, last season at least we were capable of producing turning tracks.
Might be tougher vs the heavy roller but let's give it a go!
Rehman is a different league to Leach.
I have no idea about the pitch. George doesn't take 6 for 'naff all' every game any more than our seam attack is constantly wayward and short.
I was offering another hypothetical scenario exactly like your hypothetical scenario.
The weather suggests this isn't going to be a turning Bunsen and the spinners are not going to be taking a 'naff all 6' tomorrow either.
I would imagine the last thing on our 'quicks' mind is to come 'running in and bowling far too much short/wayward stuff'.
But we will both have to wait and see won't we? I am certainly in the camp of one spinner unless injury makes the selection unavoidable.
I have no idea about the pitch. George doesn't take 6 for 'naff all' every game any more than our seam attack is constantly wayward and short.
I was offering another hypothetical scenario exactly like your hypothetical scenario.
The weather suggests this isn't going to be a turning Bunsen and the spinners are not going to be taking a 'naff all 6' tomorrow either.
I would imagine the last thing on our 'quicks' mind is to come 'running in and bowling far too much short/wayward stuff'.
But we will both have to wait and see won't we? I am certainly in the camp of one spinner unless injury makes the selection unavoidable.
It wasn't a Bunsen against Warks but we still got five wickets out of Jack and good, accurate bowling. Against Middx? We got 21 overs, 3 for 36 out of Jack. In the 2 home games this season, I think Jack has about 10 wickets and is probably going for fewer than 2 runs per over.
If we're down to the 13 that I think we may be down to then injuries may indeed force the selection unless they want to pick Hussain.
And that might be the silver lining we need - injuries forcing the selectors to do something they might not otherwise have done.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:12:38:46 by AGod.
If we're down to the 13 that I think we may be down to then injuries may indeed force the selection unless they want to pick Hussain.
And that might be the silver lining we need - injuries forcing the selectors to do something they might not otherwise have done.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:27:12:38:46 by AGod.
Yes Jack has done very well.
He has a way to go before he is Abdur Rehman but we can all hope.
Maybe he'll go further than our last great spinning hope Michael Munday who cost a fortune in runs to buy wickets except on a rare one game a season occasion.
He has a way to go before he is Abdur Rehman but we can all hope.
Maybe he'll go further than our last great spinning hope Michael Munday who cost a fortune in runs to buy wickets except on a rare one game a season occasion.
Indeed, not suggesting for one minute that Leach is equal to Rehman.
SLA is a totally different back to leg-spin though so I don't think there's any chance of either Jack or George going the way of MKM and getting regularly carted.
I think one of Marcus's captaincy issues has been a tendency to under-estimate spin, possibly because he himself has often found spin so easy to play. That's not a facility that I believe many English players have.
SLA is a totally different back to leg-spin though so I don't think there's any chance of either Jack or George going the way of MKM and getting regularly carted.
I think one of Marcus's captaincy issues has been a tendency to under-estimate spin, possibly because he himself has often found spin so easy to play. That's not a facility that I believe many English players have.
And I'm not "suggesting for one moment" that SLA is the same - except that Mike was also a spinner and our last spinning hope.
Of course Marcus "underestimates spin" in relation to you because he can't read statistics or analyse a game on the same level because he is a batsman who plays spin well?
Stunning perception AG. On that basis does he overestimate seam bowling then or can he play that as well?
Of course Marcus "underestimates spin" in relation to you because he can't read statistics or analyse a game on the same level because he is a batsman who plays spin well?
Stunning perception AG. On that basis does he overestimate seam bowling then or can he play that as well?
Bad news.
Craig Overton out for the season with a back injury.
Alfonso Thomas out of Yorkshire game with hamstring problem.
Confirmed that Alex Barrow will keep wicket.
Craig Overton out for the season with a back injury.
Alfonso Thomas out of Yorkshire game with hamstring problem.
Confirmed that Alex Barrow will keep wicket.
I understand it's only a view. You don't have to patronise while giving it but it doesn't stop you does it?
Sitting here with a beatific smile on my face. Please don't worry about causing stress or aggression in my case, you really don't.
I'm just a bluff Northerner. I just tend to say what I see
Sitting here with a beatific smile on my face. Please don't worry about causing stress or aggression in my case, you really don't.
I'm just a bluff Northerner. I just tend to say what I see
Sad that Craig K is still not fit, still they give us no update.
Lewis has side strain and will play as a batter only.
Craig O reported to have stress fracture of lower back, will not bowl for at least 4 months.
No report on the extent of Alfies hamstring injury
The 13 man squad is
Tres, Arul, Elgar, Hildy, Trego, Lewis, Barrow, Meschede, Leach, Kirby, JOVE, George and Hussain.
I suspect the first 11 named will be the team, I expect Leach to play ahead of George based on recent weeks and Hussain seems to be the least favoured of our quicks by those in charge.
Lewis has side strain and will play as a batter only.
Craig O reported to have stress fracture of lower back, will not bowl for at least 4 months.
No report on the extent of Alfies hamstring injury
The 13 man squad is
Tres, Arul, Elgar, Hildy, Trego, Lewis, Barrow, Meschede, Leach, Kirby, JOVE, George and Hussain.
I suspect the first 11 named will be the team, I expect Leach to play ahead of George based on recent weeks and Hussain seems to be the least favoured of our quicks by those in charge.
In that Grockle, why don't we hear (or read) more e-ba-gum from you, or perhaps your antecedents were further north!!!
As a Somerset born yokel I bain't too clear what's happening outside thi'k cider country!!
As a Somerset born yokel I bain't too clear what's happening outside thi'k cider country!!
I cannot personally see much value in playing Gregory as a specialist batsman.
He's never done nearly well enough to suggest it's worth doing. Averages about 12, I think.
He's never done nearly well enough to suggest it's worth doing. Averages about 12, I think.
Steve Cotton reports that Alf has a hamstring injury, Craig Overton is out for the season.
This on top of Nick Compton tweaking a chest muscle in the Test Match.
This on top of Nick Compton tweaking a chest muscle in the Test Match.
That could never ha;ppen to me! I've lost all my chest muscles (if I ever had any). Just a thought - do you think Marilyn Monroe had any?
Terrible news about Craig O though one did wonder if it might be long-term as it was said to be a back injury.
I assume it's a stress fracture or herniated disc or something like that?
I assume it's a stress fracture or herniated disc or something like that?
I hope they let Hussain take his chance, he has a lot to prove, now could be the time to do so.
I'm sure Craig O will feel much better, having been told by DN that 'in a way it's better to get this kind of injury when you are young than later.'
I see DN seems to pin some of the possible blame on too many overs for Lions.
I'd have thought Jamie Overton has already bowled more overs this season than Craig had to for the Lions?
Perhaps we will be compelled to play Hussain at some point as a means of rationing Jamie's workload?
I see DN seems to pin some of the possible blame on too many overs for Lions.
I'd have thought Jamie Overton has already bowled more overs this season than Craig had to for the Lions?
Perhaps we will be compelled to play Hussain at some point as a means of rationing Jamie's workload?
According to that Bristol Post article, of those down to play tomorrow, the 5th best batting average this season is owned by Kirby. The average is 9.33.
I think they said George had the 4th best average this season.
I think they said George had the 4th best average this season.
Official site only has squad of 12. No leach so suggests Dockrell will play . Also suggests hussain may play too. It's been wrong before mind you but interesting.
The narrative (which could be mis-leading) says that Hussain 'gets a first team start,' but whether that's a poorly worded way of saying he's in the squad remains to be seen.
It's really sad and disappointing news about Craig Overton and I am sure we all wish him a painless period of recuperation and a full recovery.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:AGod
I'm sure Craig O will feel much better, having been told by DN that 'in a way it's better to get this kind of injury when you are young than later.'
You perhaps don't agree with this opinion? What exactly is the criticism - he shouldn't have said anything? Is there any grace in you at all? Seems a sensible thing to say IMHO and probably true to boot.
Save your train fares and petrol money. It will be a Max 3 day match hopefully starting tomorrow. The forecast I've just seen shows the rain stopping about 4pm. At least its good for my runner beans!
The weather at this time is steady rain the sort that gets you wet before you realise it, and the bit I don't like there is no wind so it is here to stay for awhile.
This match (if there is sufficient play) may be instructive as to the relative strength of our squad vs Yorkshire squad.
We know we have some significant problems.
The following first-choice players are unavailable;
NC
JB
CK
AT
And a couple of fringe players are (I think) out;
Craig Overton (definitely)
Adam Dibble (I assume).
But for Yorkshire, the position is pretty similar. The following first-choice players are unavailable;
Root
Bairstow
Bresnan
Brooks
And a couple of fringe players are definitely out;
Plunkett
Rafiq
So the position is fairly similar. Therefore, if things do not go well, then I do not think we should rush to play the woe be-gone injury card against these particular opponents.
We know we have some significant problems.
The following first-choice players are unavailable;
NC
JB
CK
AT
And a couple of fringe players are (I think) out;
Craig Overton (definitely)
Adam Dibble (I assume).
But for Yorkshire, the position is pretty similar. The following first-choice players are unavailable;
Root
Bairstow
Bresnan
Brooks
And a couple of fringe players are definitely out;
Plunkett
Rafiq
So the position is fairly similar. Therefore, if things do not go well, then I do not think we should rush to play the woe be-gone injury card against these particular opponents.
Yes, indeed, though I hadn't included AP in my list and DE is the direct replacement for AP.
I didn't include AP in the list precisely because he has been replaced by somebody that (on paper) may be of similar stature, though I could have done.
On the other hand, I don't think Yorkshire have any overseas player in their squad.
I didn't include AP in the list precisely because he has been replaced by somebody that (on paper) may be of similar stature, though I could have done.
On the other hand, I don't think Yorkshire have any overseas player in their squad.
The weather isn't looking good.
We might only get about 2 days play in this week.
And you can't lose a game inside two days.
Can you?
We might only get about 2 days play in this week.
And you can't lose a game inside two days.
Can you?
Forecast from Met Office (for what this is worth) suggests dry weather tomorrow and implies a 3-day match.
Whether or not one can lose a match in two days depends, in large part, on how long the opposition bat for. If they bat for five sessions, then you're not going to lose and if they bat for four sessions, you'd have to go some!
Whether or not one can lose a match in two days depends, in large part, on how long the opposition bat for. If they bat for five sessions, then you're not going to lose and if they bat for four sessions, you'd have to go some!
I am going to see what the atmosphere is like at the ground today, I bet it is all doom and gloom (the weather that is)
Quote:Naxxar
The weather isn't looking good.
We might only get about 2 days play in this week.
And you can't lose a game inside two days.
Can you?
Certainly not. But you can win one, as we shall demonstrate.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
What did you find, Mike?
Any optimism about prospects of any play today?
England have been lucky in Leeds, where the forecast has been confounded.
Any optimism about prospects of any play today?
England have been lucky in Leeds, where the forecast has been confounded.
Root just doesn't look like an opener to me. Neither Bairstow.
If they do drop Compton before the ashes they will look for another opener I would think.
Root and Bairstow are playing for one place?
If they do drop Compton before the ashes they will look for another opener I would think.
Root and Bairstow are playing for one place?
It could be quite revealing along in relation to out predicament that while Yorkshire have four seam bowlers out for various reasons they can still muster Sidebottom and Patterson.
Our problem is we have no strength in depth and competition for places. Hussein and Dibble are a vastly weaker proposition than their Yorkshire counterparts and therefore Kirby and Thomas continue despite poor form.
Our problem is we have no strength in depth and competition for places. Hussein and Dibble are a vastly weaker proposition than their Yorkshire counterparts and therefore Kirby and Thomas continue despite poor form.
If Compton gets dropped, then there's every chance that Trott gets moved up.
I'd highly doubt they'd bring in somebody completely new, such as Chopra.
On the other hand, if they move Trott up to open, who bats three? Would they trust Bell to do it?
I'd highly doubt they'd bring in somebody completely new, such as Chopra.
On the other hand, if they move Trott up to open, who bats three? Would they trust Bell to do it?
It's more likely, in my opinion, that Trott would move up one place. The order might then be Bell, Pitersen, Root, Bairstow, Prior...
Root and Bairstow batting in middle-order partnership over the next decade is quite an attractive prospect.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Root and Bairstow batting in middle-order partnership over the next decade is quite an attractive prospect.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Cricinfo thinks the start time was 11am, they couldn't hear the loudspeakers.
Well, KT, Alf isn't "continuing," because he's injured.
If there is a disparity in bowling resources, then I don't think it can be entirely explained away by differences in "size", of County or resourcing because SCCC have been doing well financially and my understanding was that Yorkshire have been mired in debt?
Additionally, we are meant to have the fourth highest wage bill and it's far from certain that Yorkshire are one of the three ahead of us.
In fact, if I remember rightly, there was something in the Torygraph that somebody linked here about club's current financial positions. Most of the Counties provided info in such a way that it was not directly comparable, but if I recall Somerset and Yorkshire provided info in a sensible format that allowed a direct comparison.. and the conclusion was that Somerset and Yorkshire have more or less identical wage bills.
If there is a disparity in bowling resources, then I don't think it can be entirely explained away by differences in "size", of County or resourcing because SCCC have been doing well financially and my understanding was that Yorkshire have been mired in debt?
Additionally, we are meant to have the fourth highest wage bill and it's far from certain that Yorkshire are one of the three ahead of us.
In fact, if I remember rightly, there was something in the Torygraph that somebody linked here about club's current financial positions. Most of the Counties provided info in such a way that it was not directly comparable, but if I recall Somerset and Yorkshire provided info in a sensible format that allowed a direct comparison.. and the conclusion was that Somerset and Yorkshire have more or less identical wage bills.
Sadly after the inspection the rain started to fall again and it has been announced that lunch will be taken early at 1.15pm with a further pitch inspection at 1.55pm.
From the clubs web site.
Could be a 7.30 finish today.
From the clubs web site.
Could be a 7.30 finish today.
Still a steady drizzle here on the ground.
Even if we get any play, light will be an issue, as the day goes on.
Even if we get any play, light will be an issue, as the day goes on.
There can't be many CC days this season, when we have been just as well off at lunch, as at the start of play.
Are we now to assume there will be no play today?
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
No cricket at Worcester either - so it seems England were rather lucky at Leeds today.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Flower very very non-committal about Compton... Unlike his comments about some others.
Oh dear, that's unlike Flower.
Perhaps the management view is that NC's confidence is shot to pieces in which case he could get dropped despite their usual reluctance to drop any of the batsmen?
Does anyone know how long his chest injury is likely to keep him out? I..e when he is liable to be able to resume batting for SCCC?
Perhaps the management view is that NC's confidence is shot to pieces in which case he could get dropped despite their usual reluctance to drop any of the batsmen?
Does anyone know how long his chest injury is likely to keep him out? I..e when he is liable to be able to resume batting for SCCC?
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa.
Are we now to assume there will be no play today?
Cor blimey! Don't you hate those blokes who say "I told you so!". I told you so at 7.49 this morning siily boy!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:28:16:49:43 by old boy!.
old boy! I do indeed hate such know-alls. And I'm very cross with Mike's failure to show any pictures of Yorkshire stumps spread-eagled. Mus try harder tomorrow.
(Just trying to remind BJ of how curmudgeonly I really am)
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
(Just trying to remind BJ of how curmudgeonly I really am)
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
It's the only language BJ understands.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Interesting. Heard at the ground today that Kieswetter's recovery has been going ok though they felt he wasn't ready tp lay v Yorks. Now he's tweeting that he's having an op tomorrow to clean out and fix his thumb.
Slightly better news (potentially) accoring to Steve Cotton Someret are seeing if they can get Nick Compton to play in this match (strained moob permitting)
[www.bristolpost.co.uk]
[www.bristolpost.co.uk]
Not like Somerset to have complications over an injury eh bag puss? Not like us at all!!
Dear Marcus - please bowl George from whichever end Cook is stood at and get the bat-pad men in. Every chance of dismissals whether any bat is involved or not!
And when George is not bowlin, ask the seamers to forget about the 'corridor of uncertainty,' and bowl for lbws which may also be granted even if there are obvious inside edges!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:28:19:50:43 by AGod.
And when George is not bowlin, ask the seamers to forget about the 'corridor of uncertainty,' and bowl for lbws which may also be granted even if there are obvious inside edges!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:28:19:50:43 by AGod.
If we can beat Yorkshire by Saturday after scoring 400 and bowling them out twice, and get 24 points there will still be another 216 available to us by the end of September!! So don't panic, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic!! I'm not panicking - just can't help thinking about the possibilities!!!
Crikey - I must be panicking - it finishes on Friday!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:28:21:39:56 by old boy!.
Crikey - I must be panicking - it finishes on Friday!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:28:21:39:56 by old boy!.
If we might have Compton tomorrow, might Yorks not have Root, Bairstow, Bresnan and one or two of those brilliant little fielders who all looked younger than Root?!
SP: I think the difference is that most of those teen-aged Yorkshire boys are needed for the ODIs, whereas our mature NCis not.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
OK chaps and lassies! Weather here looking much better today. I think you can get your train tickets and rev up your engines - we should be on our way to our first win by lunchtime!
I join a conversation on radio five this morning about Nick Compton, because I didn't hear the start I am not sure who was speaking.
somebody from the England setup (it could have been Giles) said Nick has to go back to Somerset and get back in form before the Ashes.
He said he has two one day matches and a county match to do it in.
my first thought was maybe Somerset may not want to pick him for the one day matches, I hope we don't pick Nick for the one day matches just because England say we should, the team should come first.
We do need a Nick Compton type innings in the county match.
Edit - I found the report on the BBC site (it was Andy Flower) [www.bbc.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:08:31:15 by Mike TA1.
somebody from the England setup (it could have been Giles) said Nick has to go back to Somerset and get back in form before the Ashes.
He said he has two one day matches and a county match to do it in.
my first thought was maybe Somerset may not want to pick him for the one day matches, I hope we don't pick Nick for the one day matches just because England say we should, the team should come first.
We do need a Nick Compton type innings in the county match.
Edit - I found the report on the BBC site (it was Andy Flower) [www.bbc.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:08:31:15 by Mike TA1.
I agree, Mike.
If NC is as out of form as it appears then I think he's unlikely to help us against Glamorgan on Sunday. But the paper suggested that England have indicated Compton as being available for Sunday and, one assumes, they will certainly want us to pick him.
What we definitely cannot afford is for NC to do anything like have a net in a one-day game.
Apparently, he's not going to play against Yorkshire because he has to for a pre-cautionary scan on what is (presumably believed to be) a minor chest injury.
If NC is as out of form as it appears then I think he's unlikely to help us against Glamorgan on Sunday. But the paper suggested that England have indicated Compton as being available for Sunday and, one assumes, they will certainly want us to pick him.
What we definitely cannot afford is for NC to do anything like have a net in a one-day game.
Apparently, he's not going to play against Yorkshire because he has to for a pre-cautionary scan on what is (presumably believed to be) a minor chest injury.
Nice little zinger by Flower vs Agnew though;
"I'm sure when you reflect on your broadcasting today, you won't have been a 100% either."
"I'm sure when you reflect on your broadcasting today, you won't have been a 100% either."
Inthe circumstances it would be foolish to play NC on Sunday. He can play one day stuff- usually a brief run a ball knock or a drop anchor for a bit if there has been quick wickets. This will not put him back into form- what has 25 off 15 balls got to do with test opening?. I fear the agenda has been set anyway. I shall be delighted to have him back.
I think 40 off 60 might be more likely than 25 off 15 (unless he recovers form very quickly).
The former may have a bit more to do with Test opening (helping England) but if it's another flat-track belter (as all four Pro 40 pitches that we've played on this season have been) then 40 off 60 will be far too slow and would be very unlikely to help Somerset.
In any event, England would surely have been better off sending him down to face Yorkshire?
The former may have a bit more to do with Test opening (helping England) but if it's another flat-track belter (as all four Pro 40 pitches that we've played on this season have been) then 40 off 60 will be far too slow and would be very unlikely to help Somerset.
In any event, England would surely have been better off sending him down to face Yorkshire?
See we are fielding. On paper the Yorkshire team looks much stronger so that gives me hope that we shall win
So Jamie Overton not playing as well as Alf?
Rested, I assume, which may not be unrelated to what happened to Craig.
Shame, though, because Jamie seems to have been far more effective at home than away so far this season. Unless he is exhausted at the time of typing, I would be inclined to have played Jamie in home CC games only as a means of ensuring he receives sufficient rest.
Rested, I assume, which may not be unrelated to what happened to Craig.
Shame, though, because Jamie seems to have been far more effective at home than away so far this season. Unless he is exhausted at the time of typing, I would be inclined to have played Jamie in home CC games only as a means of ensuring he receives sufficient rest.
That's an excellent start, though I feel a bit sorry for Sayers, who is finding scoring almost impossible these days.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I think their top-order, generally, have not had a fabulous start to the season though, as we found out to our cost at Leeds, their middle order has been rather more effective.
Of course, the exception to that re:their top order has been when they've had Root playing.
Of course, the exception to that re:their top order has been when they've had Root playing.
Sounds like some good balls, mixed with some loose ones and, overall, the scoreboard is going around far too quickly for comfort, IMO, with 50 from the last 10 overs.
Sounds like third slip put one down?
Sounds like third slip put one down?
Sounds like Hussain bowled well.
And didn't do what he often seems to which is to bowl 3 or 4 good overs and then a couple of loose ones at the end of his spell.
Suspect he exceeded expectations (and not only mine).
And didn't do what he often seems to which is to bowl 3 or 4 good overs and then a couple of loose ones at the end of his spell.
Suspect he exceeded expectations (and not only mine).
The hour or so that I've seen this morning is that our bowlers, other than the one that George has had, have overs consisting of 2/3 decent balls, 1/2 iffish balls and a rubbish 4 runs ball. I suspect also that the left handers are causing problems because most deliveries seem aimed at or outside leg stump. The keeper and the slips seem to be standing at least a yard too far back IMO as several potential catches have fallen short. None of the Spomerset bowlers have been quick enough IMO to justify standing as far back. At four an hour we could be chasing at least 400 by the close unless something changes - and that probably means a good spell from George.
Yes, Old Boy, I wondered (from the commentary) about whether the cordon was too far back as it sounded like the odd one dropped short.
Starting to sound a little ominous after lunch, thus far.
Time for George to bring some extra control?
Time for George to bring some extra control?
Sounds like George is doing a sterling job of blocking up one end but we lack the discipline at the other to make the most of it.
Yes, sounds like excellent economy from George.
Still wish we had the chance to one front-line spinner at each end... to try to exert sustained pressure.
Still wish we had the chance to one front-line spinner at each end... to try to exert sustained pressure.
Cricinfo says Elgar's bowling leg-spin...?
Re Compton, assuming his moob-injury is minor, I'm sure he'll play on Sunday and in general in YB40 as well as CC matches - as I believe would be quite correct.
Re Compton, assuming his moob-injury is minor, I'm sure he'll play on Sunday and in general in YB40 as well as CC matches - as I believe would be quite correct.
You have another spinner with 'front line' experience to block up the other end should Somerset want to use him.
Quote:Naxxar
Again, poor tactics and decisions.
If this goes breast up you're gonna blame it all on the skipper again aren't you?
Come on everyone, one wicket and we're back in the mix..and let's not forget, one often leads to two...all to play for.
Elgar, like Arul, is a part-time spinner in first-class cricket. Like Arul he averages less than half a wicket per match and averages 50+ with the ball.
And, yet, he was bowling by 3:30pm on what, to all intents and purposes, was a first-day track.
This tends to suggest that either there’s a bit in it for spin (or the captain thinks there might be) and/or there’s nowhere near enough in it for the seamers (hence Captain has turned to spin in a bid to gain control.)
If the part-timer is on by 3:30pm on day one, this suggests scope for a second front-line spinner to get a fair amount of work in a match.
And, yes, Elgar will probably be taken off again after tea but, largely, because he’s not really provided as much control as Tres would probably have liked.
And, yet, he was bowling by 3:30pm on what, to all intents and purposes, was a first-day track.
This tends to suggest that either there’s a bit in it for spin (or the captain thinks there might be) and/or there’s nowhere near enough in it for the seamers (hence Captain has turned to spin in a bid to gain control.)
If the part-timer is on by 3:30pm on day one, this suggests scope for a second front-line spinner to get a fair amount of work in a match.
And, yes, Elgar will probably be taken off again after tea but, largely, because he’s not really provided as much control as Tres would probably have liked.
And Leach's figures at Taunton this season (I think the only CC games he's played for us at Taunton);
84.4-40-142-10.
That's 10 wickets at 14.2 runs per wicket at Taunton.
Economy rate? 1.68 runs per over.
Strike-rate? 50.8
84.4-40-142-10.
That's 10 wickets at 14.2 runs per wicket at Taunton.
Economy rate? 1.68 runs per over.
Strike-rate? 50.8
I am happy with 2 front line spinners in - Leach and Dockrell, but when you are 2 seamers down( Alf and Jove)- the balancing act becomes a little more difficult. I will happily settle for 300 for 6 at close- that is always the figure I expect a team batting first to acheive and the bowling side to do well to take six. That is my benchmark.
Yes, GM, balancing act is a little difficult, I agree.
And I know that, in an absolutely ideal world, you'd want a second front-line spinner to turn the ball in the opposite direction to your first front-line spinner e.g an off-spinner to complement George.
On the other hand, the way I look at it is that we are struggling in the CC and, to an extent, struggling for bodies, and yet we have elected to put a man that has averaged 14.2 over the first two CC home games into the seconds for the third home game!
I would simply have included Leach instead of Gregory for this one.
And I know that, in an absolutely ideal world, you'd want a second front-line spinner to turn the ball in the opposite direction to your first front-line spinner e.g an off-spinner to complement George.
On the other hand, the way I look at it is that we are struggling in the CC and, to an extent, struggling for bodies, and yet we have elected to put a man that has averaged 14.2 over the first two CC home games into the seconds for the third home game!
I would simply have included Leach instead of Gregory for this one.
I believe that in the CC when all fit we should put TRES, HILDRETH, ELGAR, COMPTON, KEISWETTER, TREGO, DOCKRELL and LEACH on the team sheet and any three more from whats available.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:16:50:11 by old boy!.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:16:50:11 by old boy!.
Agree, Old Boy, plus Jos and Alf when available.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:16:41:14 by AGod.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:16:41:14 by AGod.
Good day for Barrow so far: two catches taken and no byes conceded.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Yes, LoL, I tried to e-mail the Yorkshire commentator for a view on how he thought Barrow had done, but to no avail (question ignored)
Leach is not playing AG. He is not, by your own definition yet a 'front line' spinner because he has nothing like enough experience in the books you have been referring to since this time last year. We all hope he will be something along those lines but presently it has been assessed that another team has been picked
Arul is playing, he has the experience of playing with a number of what you call 'frontline' spinners and has been doing it in these kinds of matches for a very long time. You want to block up the other end - he's your man. He is more than some batsman who occasionally bowls no matter how you try and make out that he is, he is not James Hildreth or for that matter Dean Elgar.
You don't have a monopoly of the definition or perception of what a spinner is required to do. You want dual spin then Dockrell and Suppiah are your best option. In this game, I am sorry to inform you, Dockrell and Leach is simply not going to happen no matter how much you harp on about it.
Arul is playing, he has the experience of playing with a number of what you call 'frontline' spinners and has been doing it in these kinds of matches for a very long time. You want to block up the other end - he's your man. He is more than some batsman who occasionally bowls no matter how you try and make out that he is, he is not James Hildreth or for that matter Dean Elgar.
You don't have a monopoly of the definition or perception of what a spinner is required to do. You want dual spin then Dockrell and Suppiah are your best option. In this game, I am sorry to inform you, Dockrell and Leach is simply not going to happen no matter how much you harp on about it.
Who's that chap from the north east who mentioned 300/6 at the close? What's he know about anything? Possibly quite a lot...
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
They are not the best option available from within the squad, Grockle, though I obviously have no choice but to accept that we're stuck with only one front-line option for this game.
Six looks conceivable LoL - maybe even seven!?
But it's going to be a fair few more than 300, one would think.
But it's going to be a fair few more than 300, one would think.
Looks like Craig M still has something to learn about four day bowling in comparison to one day stuff.
Well done Gemaal to come in and take some - hope it ends up with more than two.
And before we blame us for the score please keep in mind the quality of Mr Lyth who was the only player who came out of the Yorkshire debacle a few years ago now as someone of quality. Good players occasionally make CC1 hundreds irrespective of the best efforts of the opposing team.
Just setting up in advance :-)
Well done Gemaal to come in and take some - hope it ends up with more than two.
And before we blame us for the score please keep in mind the quality of Mr Lyth who was the only player who came out of the Yorkshire debacle a few years ago now as someone of quality. Good players occasionally make CC1 hundreds irrespective of the best efforts of the opposing team.
Just setting up in advance :-)
It also sounds a pretty good batting surface, Grockle.
Whether our batting group will make that notion look silly remains to be seen.
Whether our batting group will make that notion look silly remains to be seen.
My benchmark in runs will be exceeded but it may be possible that the wicket mark will as well. My second bench mark from 300 for 6 is 390 all out- before lunch on Day 2
... and just to remind ourselves how easily we can beat Yorkshire:
[cricketarchive.com]
[cricketarchive.com]
[cricketarchive.com]
Three in a row: easily peasily.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
[cricketarchive.com]
[cricketarchive.com]
[cricketarchive.com]
Three in a row: easily peasily.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
"It's not the best option" in your opinion AG.
You don't have anything like the monopoly on making that particular assessment or you'd be getting the big bucks instead.
You do need reminding occasionally that you are only a 'fan' with a point of view and access to a computer keyboard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:17:49:05 by Grockle.
You don't have anything like the monopoly on making that particular assessment or you'd be getting the big bucks instead.
You do need reminding occasionally that you are only a 'fan' with a point of view and access to a computer keyboard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:17:49:05 by Grockle.
Hey Grocks just ease up - you are getting aggressive again - might not have been selected but Jack and George would probably be the forums choice for the match !
Just cos AG said it you really don't need to get so excited - lets face it we aint gonna win this one ( again ) are we. Rose coloured.................eye never mind !
Just cos AG said it you really don't need to get so excited - lets face it we aint gonna win this one ( again ) are we. Rose coloured.................eye never mind !
Not much urgency in the field accepting our fate was what I heard some people commenting. Not being there is this correct? If so is this the sort of thing that will get us out this mire?
I would have thought we could be looking to get them out in the morning for just over 400. Then as long as we bat OK we should get within striking distance on first innings and our bowling improves to leave us 250-300 in fourth innings and our lads treat it like a one day match from there!!
There we are!! Problem solved! Next??
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:18:31:58 by old boy!.
There we are!! Problem solved! Next??
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:18:31:58 by old boy!.
Oh Dear OB - not you in the Rose coloured as well please - we ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THIS MATCH - other than via a contrived result !
Another disappointing day.
You really do wonder where our first Championship win will come from.
You really do wonder where our first Championship win will come from.
Dropping Leach is the most extraordinary counter evidential selection decisions I have come across.
Quote:Grockle
"It's not the best option" in your opinion AG.
You don't have anything like the monopoly on making that particular assessment or you'd be getting the big bucks instead.
You do need reminding occasionally that you are only a 'fan' with a point of view and access to a computer keyboard.
Can you explain the logical difference between you stating 'Arul and George are the best option,' and me stating that they are not?
I don't claim a monopoly on wisdom though I see how you could see it that way. But your bald statement that 'they are the best option', is different, how, exactly?
I do find it extremely dichotomous that you, AG, who have spent at least 12 months bemoaning the lack of experience and "proven-ness" in our "support" players, should then tell us today that no fewer than nine of the established players should be on the team sheet "whenever available".
How will that help development of our squad?
How will that help development of our squad?
Don't know if its been
Mentioned but alfonso appears to be out for a month!!
Mentioned but alfonso appears to be out for a month!!
Day one photos.
I would say that Yorkshire are in the better position, it looked like there was no pace in the pitch and if you didn't ball accurately there were runs to be had.
Adil Rashid had no trouble dealing with this short ball.
Andrew Gale was beaten by this ball from Peter Trego, the bails removed.
Dean Elgar showed he had a second string to his bow today and bowled a few overs.
Alex Barrow makes a very good reserve wicketkeeper here he is seen taken a ball left by Andrew Gale.
Adam Lyth batted very good today this is four runs and his hundred.
Andrew Gale watches Alex Barrow catch this ball after he was beaten by Steve Kirby
Considering Steve Kirby was unwell for quite a while he still managed to carry on bowling, it looked like Marcus knew what was wrong because he never went to see how he was, several other players did.
Alex Barrow took a good diving catch to dismiss Phil Jaques off Gemaal Hussain.
Before that Steve Kirby had Phil Jaques in all sorts of trouble.
This is Marcus T taking a catch off Steve Kirby bowling to get Joe Sayers's out.
I would say that Yorkshire are in the better position, it looked like there was no pace in the pitch and if you didn't ball accurately there were runs to be had.
Adil Rashid had no trouble dealing with this short ball.
Andrew Gale was beaten by this ball from Peter Trego, the bails removed.
Dean Elgar showed he had a second string to his bow today and bowled a few overs.
Alex Barrow makes a very good reserve wicketkeeper here he is seen taken a ball left by Andrew Gale.
Adam Lyth batted very good today this is four runs and his hundred.
Andrew Gale watches Alex Barrow catch this ball after he was beaten by Steve Kirby
Considering Steve Kirby was unwell for quite a while he still managed to carry on bowling, it looked like Marcus knew what was wrong because he never went to see how he was, several other players did.
Alex Barrow took a good diving catch to dismiss Phil Jaques off Gemaal Hussain.
Before that Steve Kirby had Phil Jaques in all sorts of trouble.
This is Marcus T taking a catch off Steve Kirby bowling to get Joe Sayers's out.
Yes of course I can help you with an explanation AG.
When I'm talking about it being the 'best option' I'm talking about in the game we have here against Yorkshire. The options are limited and with respect to Mr Elgar whose bowling I haven't seen I think I'm right.
When you are talking about it you are talking about it
a) as if it is some kind of fact that can hardly be denied (I see KT has something of the same opinion -at least I think that's what he posted - something about counter evidence) and
b) you are talking about the whole squad.
Now I can see that may be your opinion but as I say it is usually posted in a sort of "and if you disagree with it you must be some kind of idiot" kind of way- possibly even delusional I think you said earlier.
It's good to read that you don't have a monopoly on opinion but I don't really think you believe it.
Maybe you just think you have the monopoly on "right" opinion because you spend an awful lot of time defending whatever your view is against all comers and rarely seem to see any other point of view except you own as possibly right.
Don't agree... but it is only my opinion of course as most things posted here are.
I don't know who would be defined as the "Oracle" on all things Somerset cricket but I don't think he or she posts here and it certainly isn't me or you.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:21:46:39 by Grockle.
When I'm talking about it being the 'best option' I'm talking about in the game we have here against Yorkshire. The options are limited and with respect to Mr Elgar whose bowling I haven't seen I think I'm right.
When you are talking about it you are talking about it
a) as if it is some kind of fact that can hardly be denied (I see KT has something of the same opinion -at least I think that's what he posted - something about counter evidence) and
b) you are talking about the whole squad.
Now I can see that may be your opinion but as I say it is usually posted in a sort of "and if you disagree with it you must be some kind of idiot" kind of way- possibly even delusional I think you said earlier.
It's good to read that you don't have a monopoly on opinion but I don't really think you believe it.
Maybe you just think you have the monopoly on "right" opinion because you spend an awful lot of time defending whatever your view is against all comers and rarely seem to see any other point of view except you own as possibly right.
Don't agree... but it is only my opinion of course as most things posted here are.
I don't know who would be defined as the "Oracle" on all things Somerset cricket but I don't think he or she posts here and it certainly isn't me or you.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:21:46:39 by Grockle.
If only our boys could perform with the consistent excellence that Mike photographs them!
Another frustrating day, particularly in that it was really quite close to being a whole load better.
Not much beat the bat but almost everything that did either missed the edge or missed the slips. (One or two did fall short but not enough, I'd say, to make a general trend - three carried and were caught, two were dropped and a few went wide or over).
Bowlers bowled lots of good balls but not many good overs. Gemaal's first spell was top-notch, probably the best he's bowled for us; later ones were still menacing but inconsistent. Alex Barrow did a fine job behind the stumps (sorely tested on occasions) - unfortunately the one ball he dropped was an edge from Lyth on 29.
I do find it quite hard to see us winning this one barring a sporting declaration or something of the kind.
Another frustrating day, particularly in that it was really quite close to being a whole load better.
Not much beat the bat but almost everything that did either missed the edge or missed the slips. (One or two did fall short but not enough, I'd say, to make a general trend - three carried and were caught, two were dropped and a few went wide or over).
Bowlers bowled lots of good balls but not many good overs. Gemaal's first spell was top-notch, probably the best he's bowled for us; later ones were still menacing but inconsistent. Alex Barrow did a fine job behind the stumps (sorely tested on occasions) - unfortunately the one ball he dropped was an edge from Lyth on 29.
I do find it quite hard to see us winning this one barring a sporting declaration or something of the kind.
This is Yorkshire Mike a sporting declaration is always on the cards.
Though I'm not sure we would be in any fit state to take advantage of it at the moment.
Good to hear the bowling was an improvement though the dropped catches were a shame, especially Lyth who is an excellent player and needs to be got rid of or he does what he has done.
Personally was hoping for more at 280 for 5 but it was good to see that they didn't get away. Have to hope for some movement early on tomorrow and then see what the batsmen have to say for themselves.
Though I'm not sure we would be in any fit state to take advantage of it at the moment.
Good to hear the bowling was an improvement though the dropped catches were a shame, especially Lyth who is an excellent player and needs to be got rid of or he does what he has done.
Personally was hoping for more at 280 for 5 but it was good to see that they didn't get away. Have to hope for some movement early on tomorrow and then see what the batsmen have to say for themselves.
Quote:I am trying to square this remark with the cricketing environment I grew up with in the 60s, and failing.Grockle
This is Yorkshire Mike a sporting declaration is always on the cards.
Quote:Frome Exile
I do find it extremely dichotomous that you, AG, who have spent at least 12 months bemoaning the lack of experience and "proven-ness" in our "support" players, should then tell us today that no fewer than nine of the established players should be on the team sheet "whenever available".
How will that help development of our squad?
I think I've been consistent in saying pick those that produce the most?
I've certainly never said that we should pick players for the sake of it on experience alone.
I genuinely do not understand your point, FE.'
If you seriously disagree with my slight elaboration on Old Boy's team, perhaps you would care to provide your own view on the same?
My point, which I am entirely unsurprised that you fail to understand, is that if you consistently pick those who have "produced" the most in the past, simply because they have produced in the past, then the potential players of the future will never get the opportunity to "produce" in the present, and will therefore never be anything other than the "potential" players of the future.
Eventually, selection has to be influenced as much by "faith" and "belief" in what may be produced today, as by what history shows was produced yesterday.
Right, so look at what I suggested - I think I suggested Jos, Craig K, George and Jack. Plus one other. I didn't spell it out but, for home games, I would lean towards Jamie Overton.
Instead of criticising my view, FE, why do you not provide a suggestion as to which players YOU think we should pick?
Instead of criticising my view, FE, why do you not provide a suggestion as to which players YOU think we should pick?
Seriously, FE, name those young players not named by me that YOU believe/have faith that we should pick this season?
Whilst you are at it, perhaps outline the mechanism by which you judge the point at which more proven players should be phased out?
Or just take the easy option, which is to criticise a poster without bothering to develop an alternative position.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:23:24:02 by AGod.
Whilst you are at it, perhaps outline the mechanism by which you judge the point at which more proven players should be phased out?
Or just take the easy option, which is to criticise a poster without bothering to develop an alternative position.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:29:23:24:02 by AGod.
Mike - great photo of Elgar bowling. I am very surprised that both feet leave the ground to such an extent.
Forecast for tomorrow has become very unfavourable. So there may be only four sessions left in this game.
I'm not criticising your view; rather the (in)consistency in the ways in which you use the evidence to support your view.
When it suits, Jos and Craig K are "established players" who are not being "pressured" by the "support players": now you seem to want to use their selection as proof that you are all about the rising stars!
I don't need to demonstrate my "mechanism" for phasing players out. I'd rather demonstrate my support for those that are better placed, and far more competent, than either you or I, to make those kind of decisions based on both the short- and long-term best interests of the club.
When it suits, Jos and Craig K are "established players" who are not being "pressured" by the "support players": now you seem to want to use their selection as proof that you are all about the rising stars!
I don't need to demonstrate my "mechanism" for phasing players out. I'd rather demonstrate my support for those that are better placed, and far more competent, than either you or I, to make those kind of decisions based on both the short- and long-term best interests of the club.
Nope, all I've said is I think that, for home games, I think we should look very seriously at the two spinner option.
I'm not trying to claim 'promoter of youth,' of the year for that (leave that to Old Boy).
You seemed to be saying, FE, that I had been saying that younger players were not proven and that, therefore, I should support their promotion, more or less willy-nilly, so that they would become proven.
My position has always been that genuinely good prospects tend to demonstrate genuine potential early in the piece as, I believe, Jack has done.
I'm not trying to claim 'promoter of youth,' of the year for that (leave that to Old Boy).
You seemed to be saying, FE, that I had been saying that younger players were not proven and that, therefore, I should support their promotion, more or less willy-nilly, so that they would become proven.
My position has always been that genuinely good prospects tend to demonstrate genuine potential early in the piece as, I believe, Jack has done.
NO!
I'm not saying you should promote them willy-nilly.
I'm saying that it us disingenuous to hold their lack of experience against them, at the same time as promoting a selection which excludes all but one (per match-day XI) of them, from addressing that kack of experience.
You can't have it both ways!
I'm not saying you should promote them willy-nilly.
I'm saying that it us disingenuous to hold their lack of experience against them, at the same time as promoting a selection which excludes all but one (per match-day XI) of them, from addressing that kack of experience.
You can't have it both ways!
AG Your inconsistency shows itself in your comments about Leach
As much as I see Jack as a prospect, he is portrayed as a match winner and a 'must pick' ''front line' spinner on the basis of what?
Cricket Archive has these figures;
First class this season
v Warwickshire 2 for 43 and 5 for 63 from 64 overs
An excellent start
v Yorkshire 0 for 76 from 22 overs in the one innings
not so good
v Middlesex 3 for36 in 21 overs in the one innings
A good solid performance
v Sussex 0 for 27 off 3 in the one innings
not a lot really - bit of tap
4 games - 10 wickets for 245 in 110 overs
One brilliant 2013 debut and some solid stuff besides
Taking into account he has played 7 games and has taken 12 wickets then his career before this was 3 games with 2 wickets for about 194 runs.
Had that been a non spinning non first team regular I suggest that your reaction would have been different but based on one performance effectively he is now a 'must pick' and a 'frontline' spinner.
Others aren't identifying you as 'delusional' for basing your faith on one of the small performers in 2012 being given a chance why should they be classified as such because they talk about other possibilities?
However, in your view others, unless they perform immediately, are confirmed as nothing more than 'injury only selection fodder'.
I think that is what FE is talking about
While some are batted around their heads with their earlier record when selection is even considered one player's previous record is completely ignored simply, it seems, because he had a good first game and you like spinners. He is immediately some kind of 'game changer' and his lack of consideration is a major error by the club.
I hope he is. I hope he takes more wickets but just in the same way that Gregory or Barrow or Meschede should be given the opportunity to show something over a period before being shoved in the dustbin so does Jack before he is lauded as some kind of wicket taking machine who must be picked.
We have done that with spinners before and it hasn't worked but at least we had some time based assessement to go on.
You have faith in yours, others have faith in theirs. Both are valid and slightly based on personal bias rather than written in stone by the Gods and the only consideration that should be viewed as 'sensible'.
The bits in '' are not quotes from you by the way just my impressions.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:30:05:41:15 by Grockle.
As much as I see Jack as a prospect, he is portrayed as a match winner and a 'must pick' ''front line' spinner on the basis of what?
Cricket Archive has these figures;
First class this season
v Warwickshire 2 for 43 and 5 for 63 from 64 overs
An excellent start
v Yorkshire 0 for 76 from 22 overs in the one innings
not so good
v Middlesex 3 for36 in 21 overs in the one innings
A good solid performance
v Sussex 0 for 27 off 3 in the one innings
not a lot really - bit of tap
4 games - 10 wickets for 245 in 110 overs
One brilliant 2013 debut and some solid stuff besides
Taking into account he has played 7 games and has taken 12 wickets then his career before this was 3 games with 2 wickets for about 194 runs.
Had that been a non spinning non first team regular I suggest that your reaction would have been different but based on one performance effectively he is now a 'must pick' and a 'frontline' spinner.
Others aren't identifying you as 'delusional' for basing your faith on one of the small performers in 2012 being given a chance why should they be classified as such because they talk about other possibilities?
However, in your view others, unless they perform immediately, are confirmed as nothing more than 'injury only selection fodder'.
I think that is what FE is talking about
While some are batted around their heads with their earlier record when selection is even considered one player's previous record is completely ignored simply, it seems, because he had a good first game and you like spinners. He is immediately some kind of 'game changer' and his lack of consideration is a major error by the club.
I hope he is. I hope he takes more wickets but just in the same way that Gregory or Barrow or Meschede should be given the opportunity to show something over a period before being shoved in the dustbin so does Jack before he is lauded as some kind of wicket taking machine who must be picked.
We have done that with spinners before and it hasn't worked but at least we had some time based assessement to go on.
You have faith in yours, others have faith in theirs. Both are valid and slightly based on personal bias rather than written in stone by the Gods and the only consideration that should be viewed as 'sensible'.
The bits in '' are not quotes from you by the way just my impressions.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:30:05:41:15 by Grockle.
[quote Frome Exile]NO!
I'm not saying you should promote them willy-nilly.
I'm saying that it us disingenuous to hold their lack of experience against them, at the same time as promoting a selection which excludes all but one (per match-day XI) of them, from addressing that kack of experience.
You can't have it both
-----
It would only be 'disingenous,' if the unproven players had not already had sufficient first-team chances.
In my view all of the youngsters bar, probably, the oft-injured Adam Dibble, have already either made some sort of mark (enough that they should be considered for the CC first XI) or had sufficient chances to do so.
What I hold 'against people,' as you put it is not lack of experience, per se, but lack of production. Guys like Gregory and Barrow have, in my view, already had enough CC chances to assess their productivity and it simply has not been high enough as batsmen. Gregory, pre back injury was a very good one-day bowler. It sounds like Barrow has done well as a keeper in this one.
In terms of guys who were not regulars prior to this season, I'd have two in there for home games - Jack and Jamie O ( you'll notice there were only ten listed as I had added only Jos and Alf to the 8 that Old Boy suggested).
I'm not saying you should promote them willy-nilly.
I'm saying that it us disingenuous to hold their lack of experience against them, at the same time as promoting a selection which excludes all but one (per match-day XI) of them, from addressing that kack of experience.
You can't have it both
-----
It would only be 'disingenous,' if the unproven players had not already had sufficient first-team chances.
In my view all of the youngsters bar, probably, the oft-injured Adam Dibble, have already either made some sort of mark (enough that they should be considered for the CC first XI) or had sufficient chances to do so.
What I hold 'against people,' as you put it is not lack of experience, per se, but lack of production. Guys like Gregory and Barrow have, in my view, already had enough CC chances to assess their productivity and it simply has not been high enough as batsmen. Gregory, pre back injury was a very good one-day bowler. It sounds like Barrow has done well as a keeper in this one.
In terms of guys who were not regulars prior to this season, I'd have two in there for home games - Jack and Jamie O ( you'll notice there were only ten listed as I had added only Jos and Alf to the 8 that Old Boy suggested).
Grockle - I can guarantee you that I would be clamouring to pick ANY player, young or not, spinner or not, that had an overall bowling average of 24 for us this season!!
And when we're talking about a home game, when their home bowling average is 14? We're almost in garden gnome territory again!
As to your point in bold ('perform immediately') I think guys should, in most circumstances get sort of 10 or so CC games. I think that's enough to judge potential...if they are going to do it they will show something really good inside those first 10 or so games, IMO. I don't mean they'll be consistently good in their first 10 games but that there'll be one or two really good performances 'production,' wise.
I think that is the case with pretty much all of our current first XI that have come through - Tres, Hildreth, Craig K, Jos, George (had loads of ODI experience before coming here admittedly). Previously it was the case with guys like Lathwell and Caddick. I think it was the case with Simon Ecclestone.
I don't remember with Arul. But I doubt his first 10 were so unproductive as to be averaging 11 or 13.
And when we're talking about a home game, when their home bowling average is 14? We're almost in garden gnome territory again!
As to your point in bold ('perform immediately') I think guys should, in most circumstances get sort of 10 or so CC games. I think that's enough to judge potential...if they are going to do it they will show something really good inside those first 10 or so games, IMO. I don't mean they'll be consistently good in their first 10 games but that there'll be one or two really good performances 'production,' wise.
I think that is the case with pretty much all of our current first XI that have come through - Tres, Hildreth, Craig K, Jos, George (had loads of ODI experience before coming here admittedly). Previously it was the case with guys like Lathwell and Caddick. I think it was the case with Simon Ecclestone.
I don't remember with Arul. But I doubt his first 10 were so unproductive as to be averaging 11 or 13.
Re
ibble - I do like some of what he did in his very limited chances - 3 for not that many and 40 odd at Edgbaston last season stands out as, in one-day cricket, does 4 overs, 1 for 20 in the Champions League semi-final.
So if he cluld get and stay fit he'd be one worth considering, IMO.
ibble - I do like some of what he did in his very limited chances - 3 for not that many and 40 odd at Edgbaston last season stands out as, in one-day cricket, does 4 overs, 1 for 20 in the Champions League semi-final.
So if he cluld get and stay fit he'd be one worth considering, IMO.
George Dobell @GeorgeDobell1
"The point is that these things are more about hunch and instinct than anything else."
There is no formula for who succeeds or who fails and trying to impose one on the views of others as if it is some kind of tried and trusted method based on science is futile - when that is done with any level of inconsistency it is even more futile.
It certainly didn't work for Wes Durston's later career and on your basis I doubt Arul would have been here for long. Because you've already decided he was never anything but a back up spinner based on the stats it seems. It's what he was for half his career here but that seems to count for nothing against Jack's four 2012 games stats.
I watched a whole bunch of Lathwell innings - I only ever saw one that showed me what other people saw in him.
We need consistent performers. Jack might be one but stats for 4 games do not a 'permanent' first team player make whatever you say, especially when they are skewed by one (at the moment only one) exceptional performance.
Others haven't pulled out that first game - for them you are saying they never will but Jack must be included supposedly based on the same set of rules.
Meschede is only getting the opportunity now and may not be ready for it.
Barrow may be at the other end of an assessment by your rule book.
Gregory, Dibble?? unsure where they are.
Jamie looked good - does he look as a good now as he did?
Craig O will have to wait.
Max has probably waited too long.
Regan? too young.
Burke? Mutch?
Either you use the rule book for all of them or you don't use the rulebook as your main decision point.
I agree with George and I'd probably agree with you more if you weren't so certain of your own fallability on these points. To coin a phrase "BOTTOM LINE" in my eyes you give no-one you don't rate a chance of ever improving and those you do can do no wrong. It's almost a supporters view.
Gemaal Hussain did quite well yesterday..... I'll leave you to add the "but".
"The point is that these things are more about hunch and instinct than anything else."
There is no formula for who succeeds or who fails and trying to impose one on the views of others as if it is some kind of tried and trusted method based on science is futile - when that is done with any level of inconsistency it is even more futile.
It certainly didn't work for Wes Durston's later career and on your basis I doubt Arul would have been here for long. Because you've already decided he was never anything but a back up spinner based on the stats it seems. It's what he was for half his career here but that seems to count for nothing against Jack's four 2012 games stats.
I watched a whole bunch of Lathwell innings - I only ever saw one that showed me what other people saw in him.
We need consistent performers. Jack might be one but stats for 4 games do not a 'permanent' first team player make whatever you say, especially when they are skewed by one (at the moment only one) exceptional performance.
Others haven't pulled out that first game - for them you are saying they never will but Jack must be included supposedly based on the same set of rules.
Meschede is only getting the opportunity now and may not be ready for it.
Barrow may be at the other end of an assessment by your rule book.
Gregory, Dibble?? unsure where they are.
Jamie looked good - does he look as a good now as he did?
Craig O will have to wait.
Max has probably waited too long.
Regan? too young.
Burke? Mutch?
Either you use the rule book for all of them or you don't use the rulebook as your main decision point.
I agree with George and I'd probably agree with you more if you weren't so certain of your own fallability on these points. To coin a phrase "BOTTOM LINE" in my eyes you give no-one you don't rate a chance of ever improving and those you do can do no wrong. It's almost a supporters view.
Gemaal Hussain did quite well yesterday..... I'll leave you to add the "but".
Arul is first and foremost a batsman so whether or not I would have seen his bowling as 'back up spin,' would have made little difference to how I would have rated him.
And I AM using the rule book for all of them.
Jack has played 5 CC matches for Somerset. His least effective was at Leeds - the 0 for 76 off 21 when Yorks took us for 500.
As you say a bit of tap from 18 balls in the debacle at Horsham.
But otherwise he has the two home efforts you listed above plus he played at Aigburth last year - figures were something like 2 for 37 off about 18 overs.
So he's played 5 games and done either well or very well n three of them.
It's true that he did get battered by Compton and Hildreth on what was probably an absolute road for Cardiff MCCU but his efforts since then suggest that he's actually way better than that.
And I AM using the rule book for all of them.
Jack has played 5 CC matches for Somerset. His least effective was at Leeds - the 0 for 76 off 21 when Yorks took us for 500.
As you say a bit of tap from 18 balls in the debacle at Horsham.
But otherwise he has the two home efforts you listed above plus he played at Aigburth last year - figures were something like 2 for 37 off about 18 overs.
So he's played 5 games and done either well or very well n three of them.
It's true that he did get battered by Compton and Hildreth on what was probably an absolute road for Cardiff MCCU but his efforts since then suggest that he's actually way better than that.
Craig O? Performance at Durham last season showed he can get the job done.
Jamie? Performance vs Middx showed same (and some of the Warks performance)
Dibble, I mentioned above.
Gregory has had 11 CC games, which is also his batting average.
Barrow has had more than the equivalent of an entire CC season and has 1 50 to show for it and averages about 14 - but maybe could make a go of things as a back-up keeper?
Jones? I don't know how many times he's played for SCCC? His first-class figures include numerous Uni games, I think? His record is better than Barrow or Gregory, not as good as Craig M.
Suffice to say I think it's a make or break season for all of the youngsters named above apart from the Overtons.
Others you mentioned;
Burke - seems to have done well in minor counties - never given a chance by SCCC so I don't know - what do you think?
Don't know why you mentioned Mutch as I think he was a 29 year old locum or something that played in extremis last year - I don't think he is part of our squad or involved in SCCC cricket?
Jamie? Performance vs Middx showed same (and some of the Warks performance)
Dibble, I mentioned above.
Gregory has had 11 CC games, which is also his batting average.
Barrow has had more than the equivalent of an entire CC season and has 1 50 to show for it and averages about 14 - but maybe could make a go of things as a back-up keeper?
Jones? I don't know how many times he's played for SCCC? His first-class figures include numerous Uni games, I think? His record is better than Barrow or Gregory, not as good as Craig M.
Suffice to say I think it's a make or break season for all of the youngsters named above apart from the Overtons.
Others you mentioned;
Burke - seems to have done well in minor counties - never given a chance by SCCC so I don't know - what do you think?
Don't know why you mentioned Mutch as I think he was a 29 year old locum or something that played in extremis last year - I don't think he is part of our squad or involved in SCCC cricket?
As for Lathwell - when did you come to Somerset, Grockle?
His best stuff was early on in his career. Used to do things like make scores that were disproportionate such as 132 vs Essex out of (I think) only about 196.
Or score 70 odd out of a total, when dismissed, of 120 for 5.
His best stuff was early on in his career. Used to do things like make scores that were disproportionate such as 132 vs Essex out of (I think) only about 196.
Or score 70 odd out of a total, when dismissed, of 120 for 5.
Looks like today may be largely rained off.
Tomorrow is forecast to be glorious - so should be a good batting day with the chance to recover some form and pride as well as garnering some important batting points.
Tomorrow is forecast to be glorious - so should be a good batting day with the chance to recover some form and pride as well as garnering some important batting points.
It's not quite ten matches (it is in fact an entire first CC season) but do you think a record of 8 matches, 14 innings, 321 runs @ 29.1 with 2 fifties and a high score of 71 is demonstrative of someone who should be persisted with?
What if it were followed by a second season of 9 matches with only 3 fifties and still no hundred, albeit with an average of 49?
What would the "rulebook" say?
What if it were followed by a second season of 9 matches with only 3 fifties and still no hundred, albeit with an average of 49?
What would the "rulebook" say?
29.1 as an average, FE, is double Barrow and more than double Gregory. Those figures that you list also came with one more fifty than Barrow has made in double the number of games and two more than Gregory has made. That sort of production, IMO, contains evidence of potential.
And an average of 49, I'm sure we'd all take every time.
Are those Wes Durston's figures, I assume?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:30:09:41:32 by AGod.
And an average of 49, I'm sure we'd all take every time.
Are those Wes Durston's figures, I assume?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:30:09:41:32 by AGod.
The Met Office weather forecast is improving, looks like may be interruptions but some cricket and this was backed up by forecast on 5live just now. I'm hoping also to hear what Craig K says at lunchtime.
They're the first two seasons of the career of Mark Ramprakash.
In his third, his average dropped back to 36, but he made 1000 runs with 7 fifties and his first CC hundred.
The rest, as they say, is history.
In his third, his average dropped back to 36, but he made 1000 runs with 7 fifties and his first CC hundred.
The rest, as they say, is history.
Indeed, but I would assume that you are not suggesting that an average of 29 is not really commensurate with those of 14 or 11.
One way of looking at it? If you were to double an average of 14 or 11 it STILL would not be what one is looking for from a fixture in your first-team.
If, on the other hand, one were to double 29....
But, to be honest, FE, there is also a wider point in terms of production which is not just about net production but about what might be called "direction of travel."
To put it another way, which of the young players are showing improving production with time? I would say that, generally, the bowlers are doing that whereas there is no conspicuous evidence of any of our young batsmen producing gradually improving returns.
One way of looking at it? If you were to double an average of 14 or 11 it STILL would not be what one is looking for from a fixture in your first-team.
If, on the other hand, one were to double 29....
But, to be honest, FE, there is also a wider point in terms of production which is not just about net production but about what might be called "direction of travel."
To put it another way, which of the young players are showing improving production with time? I would say that, generally, the bowlers are doing that whereas there is no conspicuous evidence of any of our young batsmen producing gradually improving returns.
The main reason I would opt for a two spinner attack currently - whether home or away is that IMO George and Jack are (1) more likely to get wickets than most of our senior seamers or (2) stem the flow of 4 runs a over bowling which seems to afflict our seamers with a lot of short pitched balls or off line half volleys. Sorry, I'm judging it on the stuff I have seen this season - I don't know how good or bad they've been this morning, but it looks very likely that we will be playing for a draw from the moment they have mercy on us once they've reached 500+!
When you are trying to stop the rot of batting collapses and defeats and so forth, I really do think point 2 - ref Control is absolutely crucial, Old Boy.
If you are not scoring many runs and not blowing through sides with the ball? At least make the oppos work hard (and take their time) over whatever runs they score!
If you are not scoring many runs and not blowing through sides with the ball? At least make the oppos work hard (and take their time) over whatever runs they score!
33 overs with the second new ball, producing one wicket and a lot of runs.
Is it not time for spin?
Is it not time for spin?
No fewer than NINE fours scored off Kirby with the second new ball, thus far, by my count.
Nevermind. Yorkshire have seen enough and now cannot wait to tear into us with the ball, I'd imagine.
14 is pretty much half of 29, AG, as I expect even you will be forced to concede? 
My point is that if our persistence with Barrow (for example) allows him to become someone near half the batsman Ramps was, I, for one, would consider that persistence to have been worthwhile.
My point is that if our persistence with Barrow (for example) allows him to become someone near half the batsman Ramps was, I, for one, would consider that persistence to have been worthwhile.
57 x 4. Taunton is killing cricket.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
14 is indeed more or less half of 29, FE. But I thought we were talking about 29 in the sense of is it the sort of record that, for a young player, indicated potential.
It doesn't follow from that that many CC1 teams would necessarily be content with a first-team regular specialist batsman that averages 29. Rather 29 is a decent starting point from which to improve (as young players should be expected to do).
It doesn't follow from that that many CC1 teams would necessarily be content with a first-team regular specialist batsman that averages 29. Rather 29 is a decent starting point from which to improve (as young players should be expected to do).
LoL - let's hope cricket doesn't fightback against Taunton this afternoon!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:30:13:36:31 by AGod.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:30:13:36:31 by AGod.
Or not. Gregory in?
This sort of thing mystifies me. Barrow ahead of Buttler twice at Horsham, not Gregory ahead of Elgar. Why?
This sort of thing mystifies me. Barrow ahead of Buttler twice at Horsham, not Gregory ahead of Elgar. Why?
I can't get either the local or the BBC commentary now - and earlier the local one had that old problem of one dead mike. I hope the condition is not contagious, for the sake of Mssrs Index and TA1.
I think it might be a problem at your end, I'm afraid, LoL, as I still have the Beeb commentary.
I've got the local one back now - but I wish that man wouldm't shout so loud when a wicket falls.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Time for Elgar to conduct the comeback. Even through the gloom of this season, I can't resist a good pun. Sadly that's a bad pun, because he wasn't a conductor.
Let's hope he's more composed than that which went before him.
Let's hope he's more composed than that which went before him.
Elgar - the real one - was in fact a conductor of some distinction, particularly of his own compositions, some recordings of which can still be heard.
Thanks heavens I've got the BBC back now. That shouty man...
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Thanks heavens I've got the BBC back now. That shouty man...
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Congratulations to MT for his 101st fifty; may he convert it to his 52nd century.
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
[sigh] no silly mid on, sadly cricinfo is not wrong.
Gregory was indeed sent in ahead of Elgar.
Surely it would have been more logical to send Elgar in - it was my understanding that he has batted at three in SA?
Regardless, as overseas pro you'd think we'd want to lean on him?
Makes no more sense to me than twice sending Barrow in ahead of Jos at Horsham.
Gregory was indeed sent in ahead of Elgar.
Surely it would have been more logical to send Elgar in - it was my understanding that he has batted at three in SA?
Regardless, as overseas pro you'd think we'd want to lean on him?
Makes no more sense to me than twice sending Barrow in ahead of Jos at Horsham.
I note that this is MT's 300th first class match. He is very welcome to play another 100 as far as I am concerned.
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
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Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Barrow sounds like he's going quite well. I wonder if not being in the side exclusively for his batting may have eased the pressure slightly?
I really feel for Peter Trego. Having a monster YB40, if only he could get past the first couple of deliveries in the CC!!!
I don't think i've ever seen a batsman have such opposite form at the same time!!!
I don't think i've ever seen a batsman have such opposite form at the same time!!!
Superb effort, welcome back Master Hildreth.
Could that final hour be the moment that defines our season?
Well played boys.
Could that final hour be the moment that defines our season?
Well played boys.
Thanks - sort of...was quite confident of getting to 251, 301 seems much further away.
Well I guess today was better than where we've been very recently with the bat.
I think the big disappointment was losing two wickets to a part-time bowler and shame Tres did not go on to a ton.
Whether or not we save the follow-on, I hope JH gets a ton as that should do him the power of good.
Weather is meant to be perfect for batting tomorrow so we ought to be able to stave off a loss, one would hope, even if we have to follow-on.
The morning session sounded chastening with the ball.
I think the big disappointment was losing two wickets to a part-time bowler and shame Tres did not go on to a ton.
Whether or not we save the follow-on, I hope JH gets a ton as that should do him the power of good.
Weather is meant to be perfect for batting tomorrow so we ought to be able to stave off a loss, one would hope, even if we have to follow-on.
The morning session sounded chastening with the ball.
I'm sure quite a few had us marked down for the follow on at some stage this afternoon, to have got back into it was a brilliant effort.
Fire in the belly, metal in the back - now that is what you want to see. Poor Old Pete - when this awful string of innings breaks it's going to get very very nasty for someone.
I thought he'd already broken it with 82 vs Middx, but apparently not.
I see Elgar last played a first-class match nearly four months ago. Sounded like a joke ball that Sidebottom got him with.
I see Elgar last played a first-class match nearly four months ago. Sounded like a joke ball that Sidebottom got him with.
I'm just in she'll shock about the teams performances. Here we were waiting to see if the team could go one better and win the CC and now this.
There just seems to be this malaise that it seeing an entire team underperform. Obviously at any time you expect a couple of player to play badly but it just seems to be infecting everyone.
Worryingly all our seamers except Jamie Overton and Peter Trego are struggling; Kirby, Thomas, Dibble , Hussain, Mechede.. Just how does that happen?
It's the youngsters failure that really troubling for me.
Only players to have distinguished themselves are Jamie Oveton and Jack Leach. One injured, one dropped.
There just seems to be this malaise that it seeing an entire team underperform. Obviously at any time you expect a couple of player to play badly but it just seems to be infecting everyone.
Worryingly all our seamers except Jamie Overton and Peter Trego are struggling; Kirby, Thomas, Dibble , Hussain, Mechede.. Just how does that happen?
It's the youngsters failure that really troubling for me.
Only players to have distinguished themselves are Jamie Oveton and Jack Leach. One injured, one dropped.
Jack has been solid but has had one good match and he was 'dropped' for George Dockrell. If the two spin option was discussed I'll guarantee you it as discarded because of the batting issues.
Jamie is bowling too short it seems.
Craig Kieswetter was developing before his injury.
Dibble and Hussain would not be playing in our strongest side anyway would they? Do you suddenly rate them after moaning we have no seamers for years
It's worrying yes but Marcus has moved forward this match and so, it seems has Hildreth
Alex has done a decent job behind the sticks which is good for him because he's hardly had a decent word said about him this season
Tough times but a good side works through them.
Jamie is bowling too short it seems.
Craig Kieswetter was developing before his injury.
Dibble and Hussain would not be playing in our strongest side anyway would they? Do you suddenly rate them after moaning we have no seamers for years
It's worrying yes but Marcus has moved forward this match and so, it seems has Hildreth
Alex has done a decent job behind the sticks which is good for him because he's hardly had a decent word said about him this season
Tough times but a good side works through them.
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa.
I can't get either the local or the BBC commentary now - and earlier the local one had that old problem of one dead mike. I hope the condition is not contagious, for the sake of Mssrs Index and TA1.
All talk of my death was premature. I hope the other Mike is okay.
If it was discarded for batting reasons then it was a poor calculation by the club.
On average we might expect to lose all of about 10-12 runs per match by picking Leach instead of Gregory. But I bet the gain to the team of having Leach would have been higher as we would have been likely to have appreciably better control than we did in the field, bearing in mind that Pete was our only seamer that proved capable of keeping a lid on the scoring-rate.
Re:Jamie have the club said that Jamie was left out for bowling too short?
I'd assumed he was simply being rested for workload related reasons e.g Craig's stress fracture.
On average we might expect to lose all of about 10-12 runs per match by picking Leach instead of Gregory. But I bet the gain to the team of having Leach would have been higher as we would have been likely to have appreciably better control than we did in the field, bearing in mind that Pete was our only seamer that proved capable of keeping a lid on the scoring-rate.
Re:Jamie have the club said that Jamie was left out for bowling too short?
I'd assumed he was simply being rested for workload related reasons e.g Craig's stress fracture.
Day three photos.
Not so many good ones to choose from today.
Adil Rushid celebrating his 100.
How Adil Rushid managed to see the ball to hit it I do not know but he did and got Yorkshire their 5th batting points.
Lewis Gregory almost played on off a inside edge.
Dean Elgar hitting four runs.
You wouldn't see this very often in the past Marcus Trescothick missing the ball with a straight bat and being out lbw, this was bowled by Richard Pyrah.
It was good to see Dean Elgar bat for the first time.
Alex Barrow added 26 with James Hildreth.
James Hildreth hitting four runs.
I pack the camera away early, Somerset were batting when the light was not very good about an hour before end of play.
Not so many good ones to choose from today.
Adil Rushid celebrating his 100.
How Adil Rushid managed to see the ball to hit it I do not know but he did and got Yorkshire their 5th batting points.
Lewis Gregory almost played on off a inside edge.
Dean Elgar hitting four runs.
You wouldn't see this very often in the past Marcus Trescothick missing the ball with a straight bat and being out lbw, this was bowled by Richard Pyrah.
It was good to see Dean Elgar bat for the first time.
Alex Barrow added 26 with James Hildreth.
James Hildreth hitting four runs.
I pack the camera away early, Somerset were batting when the light was not very good about an hour before end of play.
Thanks AG, it was hard today apart from the bad light there were several time when it was raining lightly.
The camera gets covered so it stays dry.
The camera gets covered so it stays dry.
Good photos as always mike. Can't help but think that looking at the photo of rashid he is riding his luck batting wise at present!!
KT: ref. your "only JO and PT have distinguished themselves" remark. Mark Illott, who I reckon knows as much about bowling as any contributor here, said that Kirby bowled "superbly" and was the "pick of the bowlers" on Day 2.
Scorecards don't always tell the whole story though, do they.
Ref tomorrow. Choice 1, we bat and bat and make max. batting points. If we can't do that, then I think we'd actually be better off following on, thereby a) getting more batting time and b) eliminating any risk of further injury to our bowlers!!!
Scorecards don't always tell the whole story though, do they.
Ref tomorrow. Choice 1, we bat and bat and make max. batting points. If we can't do that, then I think we'd actually be better off following on, thereby a) getting more batting time and b) eliminating any risk of further injury to our bowlers!!!
Was thinking myself we might be better following-on and getting more batting time provided, of course, that we don't ultimately lose.
If we save the follow-on then I hope we give George a long bowl and give Pete a rest from bowling.
If we save the follow-on then I hope we give George a long bowl and give Pete a rest from bowling.
Kirby bowled "superbly" and was the "pick of the bowlers" on Day 2.
Scorecards don't always tell the whole story though, do they.
I agree Frome Exile several of my photos show him giving batsmen the Hurry-up (no pun intended) if people don't see the match first hand they often make a wrong judgement. and also I pointed out he was unwell for a while and still carried on bowling.
Scorecards don't always tell the whole story though, do they.
I agree Frome Exile several of my photos show him giving batsmen the Hurry-up (no pun intended) if people don't see the match first hand they often make a wrong judgement. and also I pointed out he was unwell for a while and still carried on bowling.
If we're talking about yesterday then the Beeb guys made it sound as though Hussain bowled the best spell (his first one).
Follow on?
No thanks, we need to get a little stability back, to be avoided at all costs.
No thanks, we need to get a little stability back, to be avoided at all costs.
Quote:AGod
If it was discarded for batting reasons then it was a poor calculation by the club.
On average we might expect to lose all of about 10-12 runs per match by picking Leach instead of Gregory. But I bet the gain to the team of having Leach would have been higher as we would have been likely to have appreciably better control than we did in the field, bearing in mind that Pete was our only seamer that proved capable of keeping a lid on the scoring-rate......
Well get used to it AG because it is going to happen most of the season and your golden boy will be third in the list once Abdur arrives when George is also available (the problems of the modern day spinner who does not bat and is not yet classed as 'frontline').
It wasn't a massive scoring rate though was it for Pete to 'keep a lid on' though... 3.6 across the seam and 2,5 from the slows. Not as if we'd returned to the 6 and 7 days of the early noughties or anything. And, as referenced here bymore than one observer at the game, the other seamers took the wickets and made the batsmen nervous.
As there are two parts to the whole game - batting and bowling there are two parts to the bowling, runs and wickets.
Jack may have kept it tight but would he have taken wickets? George didn't particularly.
How would you have married that with a tail that started at 6 (I assume you don't rate Mr Barrow yet).
I think I know what you would have said had someone else suggested it and had referred too the inclusion of anyone else except Mr Leach.
It's a nice idea but it isn't nailed on yet that it would have made a difference and the club isn't going to wear it as an option until either the batting stabalises or Jack knocks too hard to be ignored by his own performances rather than your enthusiastic recommendation.
There he is in the 'Catch 22' of all spinners who do not offer that second string. If you aren't first choice then you don't play and if you don't play how can your performances make you first choice? The bet thing for Jack would be injury to a number of bowlers (and now Hussain has shown a little the line has got longer) or George on extended leave with his country.
It's a problem for a young man trying to break in. Bowl a lot Jack and make yourself a useful middle order batsman.
64 overs for 281 runs from seam bowlers not named Pete.
That is pretty expensive, IMO, and it sounded a pretty uneven performance in terms of consistency and accuracy to me.
That is pretty expensive, IMO, and it sounded a pretty uneven performance in terms of consistency and accuracy to me.
Andrew Lang (1844 - 1912):
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination."
Had young Andrew not thought of it first I should of course have come up with it myself.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination."
Had young Andrew not thought of it first I should of course have come up with it myself.
Agod, the establishment aren't good at 'change'. Good inventions take time to develop and often in the early stages the inventor is thought to be barmy!
I harped on about having a ftm for ages and last week I saw one in action and he saved a lot of runs.
So, if you believe in something, don't let the masses put you off.
I also like the two spin option. Anything is worth a try in the face of adversity.
I harped on about having a ftm for ages and last week I saw one in action and he saved a lot of runs.
So, if you believe in something, don't let the masses put you off.
I also like the two spin option. Anything is worth a try in the face of adversity.
Yep sorry AG, my error. I was supposed to put in my post that I wasn't including in my analysis Craig M who I've already posted has something to learn about four day bowling.
I don't think the difference between 3 and a half an over and 4ish means Pete was significant over the other seamers (Steve and Gemaal) in curbing Craig's excesses and the others were at least, if not more effective in the wicket stakes.
Craig skews the stats for this innnings in the same way Jack's first game in 2013 skews his 2013 record presently. Funny how stats can be used really isn't it.
But my error so apologies.
I don't think the difference between 3 and a half an over and 4ish means Pete was significant over the other seamers (Steve and Gemaal) in curbing Craig's excesses and the others were at least, if not more effective in the wicket stakes.
Craig skews the stats for this innnings in the same way Jack's first game in 2013 skews his 2013 record presently. Funny how stats can be used really isn't it.
But my error so apologies.
Every orthodoxy begins as a heresy and all that, Botham.
I think it's unusual for a cricket team that is really struggling to magically flick the switch and go from losing, and failing to make runs, to magically winning. I think this is because cricket, more even than most other sports, is a confidence game.
I think what happens in terms of turning it around is more often that teams first have to become hard to beat. Becoming harder to beat leads to more confidence and eventually this translates into winning. This, to my mind, was what happened with Nasser Hussain's England.
In the very short term, SCCC needs to do whatever it can to minimise the chances of suffering further defeats and one way of doing that is to make it as difficult as possible for the opponent to score quickly. And that's even more obviously the case when you have a forecast suggesting that you won't get a full four days.
If we'd managed to slow Yorkshire down then there would probably now be a lower chance of a possible loss going into the final day.
I think it's unusual for a cricket team that is really struggling to magically flick the switch and go from losing, and failing to make runs, to magically winning. I think this is because cricket, more even than most other sports, is a confidence game.
I think what happens in terms of turning it around is more often that teams first have to become hard to beat. Becoming harder to beat leads to more confidence and eventually this translates into winning. This, to my mind, was what happened with Nasser Hussain's England.
In the very short term, SCCC needs to do whatever it can to minimise the chances of suffering further defeats and one way of doing that is to make it as difficult as possible for the opponent to score quickly. And that's even more obviously the case when you have a forecast suggesting that you won't get a full four days.
If we'd managed to slow Yorkshire down then there would probably now be a lower chance of a possible loss going into the final day.
Oh, and as for taking wickets, Grockle the spinner, George took wickets at the same rate (1) as the seamers did as a group (4 between 4).
Now, perhaps George might have had more chance of taking wickets - especially in a truncated game where the opponent would be thinking declaration - had we been able to apply something of a run squeeze from both ends.
Just a thought.
Now, perhaps George might have had more chance of taking wickets - especially in a truncated game where the opponent would be thinking declaration - had we been able to apply something of a run squeeze from both ends.
Just a thought.
Great photos, the Tresco shot is my favourite. The purist would say the bat is a bit far away from the pad but look at the high arm, the balance and the straightest of bats. Just a shame he either played it down the wrong line or it nipped in
It's not the inventor that usually evokes change. It is an innovator who sees another way of using the invention to gain advantage at a later time and probably in a different scenario (did you invent the fine third man position Botham? I didn't realise).
The theories aren't new but the 'establishment' is nervous of them and the gains are at the moment hypothetical and based on untried or tested resources.
If we get a two spin option it will be because we have two 'frontline' spinners who are proven to be capable of taking bucketloads of wickets. If George and Abdur are present together it will certainly be considered and, if the batting is still an issue, might even still be used because Abdur is no slouch with the bat.
Presently the 'brand new idea' is based on teaming an established 'frontline' spinner with a 7 match novice spinner with one 8-fer to his name in a side with significant batting issues. Neither of the two players having any significant batting prowess that we know of.
It isn't rocket science to see why it may not occur. There is no real certainty yet that Jack will take significant wickets while there is more certainty that he will not improve our batting ability. It's a simple calculation of probability.
Later in the season the probability will alter and the spin option you both so badly want may very well appear (though not necessarily with the pairing you are discussing now).
The 'establishment' isn't being 'stick in the mud' they just haven't been convinced by the argument.
Bit like your third man harping really Mr B. When you were taking offence because people would not support your notion the question was always - where do you take the fielder from and what is to stop a batsman putting the ball there instead. If enough people score significant runs through that position then that position will become important. Maybe it is happening now. It wasn't four or how many years ago you started with this.
You were obviously ahead of your time and a cricket strategist not understood by your peers. Like a lot of inventors - invent something when it isn't relevant and see it become something after your time when it becomes so.
The theories aren't new but the 'establishment' is nervous of them and the gains are at the moment hypothetical and based on untried or tested resources.
If we get a two spin option it will be because we have two 'frontline' spinners who are proven to be capable of taking bucketloads of wickets. If George and Abdur are present together it will certainly be considered and, if the batting is still an issue, might even still be used because Abdur is no slouch with the bat.
Presently the 'brand new idea' is based on teaming an established 'frontline' spinner with a 7 match novice spinner with one 8-fer to his name in a side with significant batting issues. Neither of the two players having any significant batting prowess that we know of.
It isn't rocket science to see why it may not occur. There is no real certainty yet that Jack will take significant wickets while there is more certainty that he will not improve our batting ability. It's a simple calculation of probability.
Later in the season the probability will alter and the spin option you both so badly want may very well appear (though not necessarily with the pairing you are discussing now).
The 'establishment' isn't being 'stick in the mud' they just haven't been convinced by the argument.
Bit like your third man harping really Mr B. When you were taking offence because people would not support your notion the question was always - where do you take the fielder from and what is to stop a batsman putting the ball there instead. If enough people score significant runs through that position then that position will become important. Maybe it is happening now. It wasn't four or how many years ago you started with this.
You were obviously ahead of your time and a cricket strategist not understood by your peers. Like a lot of inventors - invent something when it isn't relevant and see it become something after your time when it becomes so.
It sounded like a nice innings from the boss. But I can't escape the feeling that back when he was carrying the batting, pre-injury, he'd have gone on to make probably 140, 150 or so.
So it's welcome form but not enough to convince, as yet, that he can get back to where he was, pre-injury.
Of course, one might also say that it isn't - in any case - healthy for one guy - be it MT or NC - to be substantially carrying the batting.
So it's welcome form but not enough to convince, as yet, that he can get back to where he was, pre-injury.
Of course, one might also say that it isn't - in any case - healthy for one guy - be it MT or NC - to be substantially carrying the batting.
And James carrying on from a start isn't to be sniffed at either. Would be good to see Meschede stay with him and make it a bit more AND James farm the tail for even more than that.
But baby steps are better than none at all.
But baby steps are better than none at all.
Yep, certainly not to be sniffed at. Could be a big day for Craig M. He already has a somewhat better batting record than the others that are trying to emerge as regular first-team material.
I know what BJ means, psychologically, about not having to follow on.
But if we do bat again and somebody like Arul gets a 50 (or Elgar a good long bat) then that could be very helpful moving forward for games vs Derbyshire and Durham.
Conversely our three main seamers (those that did the bulk of the seam bowling on Wed and on Thur morning) have probably had enough activity - certainly in the cases of Pete and Steve.
I know what BJ means, psychologically, about not having to follow on.
But if we do bat again and somebody like Arul gets a 50 (or Elgar a good long bat) then that could be very helpful moving forward for games vs Derbyshire and Durham.
Conversely our three main seamers (those that did the bulk of the seam bowling on Wed and on Thur morning) have probably had enough activity - certainly in the cases of Pete and Steve.
George did very well batting with Jos at the Oval earlier this season to close out any possibility of a Surrey win.
He will probably need to do the same here to ensure we pass the follow-on mark.
He will probably need to do the same here to ensure we pass the follow-on mark.
Well done to Mr Hildreth. Hope that has exorcised some demons and put him back on to a track towards better and more stable scores. With him in form our situation improves significantly.
Should lift some pressure not only on him but also on some of the others. Also has the benefit for those that are really down on their luck/form of reminding them that run scoring is possible.
Quote:AGod
I know what BJ means, psychologically, about not having to follow on.
But if we do bat again and somebody like Arul gets a 50 (or Elgar a good long bat) then that could be very helpful moving forward for games vs Derbyshire and Durham.
Conversely our three main seamers (those that did the bulk of the seam bowling on Wed and on Thur morning) have probably had enough activity - certainly in the cases of Pete and Steve.
What an awful lot of words you've used to agree with me!
Looks like James has all but taken the possibility out of the equation, anyway.
Well batted, Sir.
Well batted, Sir.
Since neither George nor Steve typically scores quickly it would seem unlikely. Gemaal might be a bit more likely to hit the odd boundary.
But, equally, little point that I can see in declaring.
But, equally, little point that I can see in declaring.
You've lost me, Nellie C?
Think differently about what, exactly?
The likelihood (which was the question asked) of us getting to 350?
Think differently about what, exactly?
The likelihood (which was the question asked) of us getting to 350?
Well, 108 overs batted which is a vast improvement and probably as many as we faced in our last THREE first innings combined?
AG there was little or no chance of getting to 350 when GD was out. Instead we let Yorks have an extra bonus pt
Right, got you.
Does not exactly appear likely that Yorkshire will be in the relegation picture, I would say to that?
Does not exactly appear likely that Yorkshire will be in the relegation picture, I would say to that?
Had we declared simply to deny Yorks the last bowling point, we would have faced a points deduction.
That's true, FE.
But I expect Marcus could have said that with the form we've been in, it wouldn't have been impossible for Yorkshire to have a quick thrash i.e 150 off 30 overs or something and decide to leave us a target in hopes of bowling us out again.
In other words, he may have been able to claim that he was declaring to put the ball in Yorkshire's court in terms of setting up a game.
But I expect Marcus could have said that with the form we've been in, it wouldn't have been impossible for Yorkshire to have a quick thrash i.e 150 off 30 overs or something and decide to leave us a target in hopes of bowling us out again.
In other words, he may have been able to claim that he was declaring to put the ball in Yorkshire's court in terms of setting up a game.
Id have declared so we can bowl them out for 50 and then have enough time to knock em off. How can you be docked points for that?
Might have got away with it had we declared at 8 down as soon as the follow-on had been avoided; but even that would have been stretching credibility a bit.
Once George went any declaration would pretty certainly have been seen as an attempt to deny Yorks a point, IMHO.
Once George went any declaration would pretty certainly have been seen as an attempt to deny Yorks a point, IMHO.
Quote:Ronniesabre
Id have declared so we can bowl them out for 50 and then have enough time to knock em off. How can you be docked points for that?
Almost right Ronnie!
If only our lads could have learnt something from Horsham, and bowled every ball now straight at middle stump on a good length (where the batsmen don't don't know whether to play forward or back), we get them out for less than 76 and get our first win of the season!!
Next question??
Quote:Frome Exile
Might have got away with it had we declared at 8 down as soon as the follow-on had been avoided; but even that would have been stretching credibility a bit.
Once George went any declaration would pretty certainly have been seen as an attempt to deny Yorks a point, IMHO.
That would have given us four or five overs at them before lunch, too, so it would have been fairly plausible.
EDIT: I'm not saying I would have done it, mind: just saying that if we were going to do it, that (immediately after George's last boundary) was the point at which it should have been done.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:31:13:54:15 by Frome Exile.
FE - we could possibly have tried to claim that whilst George was still there we were aiming for 350 but that once he went we were going to plan B? (be that bowl them out or have them set us a target).
Not that I think this is a huge issue as Yorkshire are nowhere near us in the table.
Not that I think this is a huge issue as Yorkshire are nowhere near us in the table.
Indeed: all just a bit of useless speculation, really. But I'll stick to my guns on this one.
I reckon that would have been the only point at which we could have been confident of avoiding a "frivalous declaration" penalty.
I reckon that would have been the only point at which we could have been confident of avoiding a "frivalous declaration" penalty.
So you shouldn't officially be allowed to declare until the 110 overs are up .even at 600 for 2 say . Remember those days?
No, Nellie C - the point is you are not allowed to declare if your sole motivation is to deny the other team bonus points.
At 600 for 2 there would be no problem declaring as the umpires would assume you were trying to win the game....
At 600 for 2 there would be no problem declaring as the umpires would assume you were trying to win the game....
Great - the boys are bowling straight and presumably on a length - two lbws and a slip catch. Keep it up and we will win!!
Of course, Mike, you are right about the ninth wicket being the important one, which makes everything I said about declaring 8 down a load of utter twaddle!
Hey ho!
Hey ho!
Surely if we declared at 8 down that would have denied them the ninth wicket?
In which case it was the talk of us declaring after George was out that would have been immaterial?
In which case it was the talk of us declaring after George was out that would have been immaterial?
Quote:Grockle
Bloody optimists!!!
If you want to swear then your message won't be on the site for long and neither will you.
Ban 'em, Grock.
Oh......
What is this rubbish?? So we rob Yorkshire of 1 bowling point if we'd declared? But we've gained one batting point by getting 300! Some people very often want to make an argument where there isn't one! Ban them Grockle!!
Quote:AGod
Surely if we declared at 8 down that would have denied them the ninth wicket?
In which case it was the talk of us declaring after George was out that would have been immaterial?
Exactly AG.
My whole argument was based on the tenth wicket being the important one, and declaring 8 down looking less "suspicious" than 9 down.
Hands shaken on a draw.
Better stuff from our lads: more to come, I hope.
Better stuff from our lads: more to come, I hope.
Well there were some highlights. Well done James on your century. And CM batted well. At 172-6 the follow on, and possible defeat, was very much on. Those two deserve much credit.
That said, it was another disjointed and disappointing performance overall, very much second best and second rate. We've been so bad recently that some supporters seem pleased with things in this match, when in truth we only picked up 7 points for a drawn match in which we were always on the back foot.
Much work to do.
That said, it was another disjointed and disappointing performance overall, very much second best and second rate. We've been so bad recently that some supporters seem pleased with things in this match, when in truth we only picked up 7 points for a drawn match in which we were always on the back foot.
Much work to do.
Quote:AGod
Where's Naxxar and "the curse of the third innings"?
These days we seemed to be cursed whatever the innings
I expected it to be scrambled Bob.
Obviously it wasn't so obviously it isn't classified as swearing. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
Obviously it wasn't so obviously it isn't classified as swearing. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
The 4th and final day's photos.
Even though it was a draw Somerset showed some fight today, surprising what a bit of sun can do.
Gary Ballance avoiding a bouncer watched by James Hildreth.
Adam Lyth leaving the ball for Alex Barrow.
James Hildreth thought that was close, Adam Lyth is the batsman.
Adam Lyth looks a good player.
Adam Lyth dropped by Marcus Trescothick, Steve Kirby was so upset he pulled his hair out.
Peter Trego gave Andrew Gale a hard time in this over playing and missing several times.
That's what the scorecard doesn't tell you.
After beating him several time he finally had him.
Andrew Gale lbw Peter Trego, he couldn't believe in was in front of the stumps.
Steve Kirby in action again getting Phil Jaques lbw.
Steve Kirby waiting for the umpires decision.
George Dockrell hitting four runs to save the follow-on joined by Steve Kirby, George is smiling and looking at the scoreboard or the Somerset balcony.
This was the best result we could have had at the start of the day.
Even though it was a draw Somerset showed some fight today, surprising what a bit of sun can do.
Gary Ballance avoiding a bouncer watched by James Hildreth.
Adam Lyth leaving the ball for Alex Barrow.
James Hildreth thought that was close, Adam Lyth is the batsman.
Adam Lyth looks a good player.
Adam Lyth dropped by Marcus Trescothick, Steve Kirby was so upset he pulled his hair out.
Peter Trego gave Andrew Gale a hard time in this over playing and missing several times.
That's what the scorecard doesn't tell you.
After beating him several time he finally had him.
Andrew Gale lbw Peter Trego, he couldn't believe in was in front of the stumps.
Steve Kirby in action again getting Phil Jaques lbw.
Steve Kirby waiting for the umpires decision.
George Dockrell hitting four runs to save the follow-on joined by Steve Kirby, George is smiling and looking at the scoreboard or the Somerset balcony.
This was the best result we could have had at the start of the day.
Today I saw a Somerset side with good, positive body language.
Encouraging to see.
Encouraging to see.
No, seriously Grockle, that post made me smile, not a common occurrence.
I'm waiting for a day when I can tell Mike that his pictures are really poor. That day certainly hasn't arrived yet. Thanks, as always, Michael. The batsman looks rather unBallanced by the bouncer.
I'm waiting for a day when I can tell Mike that his pictures are really poor. That day certainly hasn't arrived yet. Thanks, as always, Michael. The batsman looks rather unBallanced by the bouncer.
Do the reports indicate that Tres dropped a few slip catches in this match? Can anyone confirm / deny, and if so, were they tough ones?
Thanks for the photos Mike, excellent as always
Thanks for the photos Mike, excellent as always
Looks like Daft Punk
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:01:00:02:56 by Scrumper.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:01:00:02:56 by Scrumper.
Do the reports indicate that Tres dropped a few slip catches in this match? Can anyone confirm / deny, and if so, were they tough ones?
Marcus missed three catches as far as I remember and the people around me said they should have been taken.
Lets not forget he did score 74 the second highest in the innings. What concerns me just as much is that he was out lbw again.
Marcus missed three catches as far as I remember and the people around me said they should have been taken.
Lets not forget he did score 74 the second highest in the innings. What concerns me just as much is that he was out lbw again.
Are you both trying not very subtley to suggest our captain's reactions are diminishing ?
I'm not suggesting at all, Nailsea, just asking...maybe preparing the evidence in case others felt moved to ask!
I've been supportive all along of Marcus as captain and am more than delighted that he now has some serious CC runs. It wouldn't be entirely shocking, though, if, at his age, his reactions in the slips were to slow a little.
I've been supportive all along of Marcus as captain and am more than delighted that he now has some serious CC runs. It wouldn't be entirely shocking, though, if, at his age, his reactions in the slips were to slow a little.
Andrew Gale's reaction to being out lbw must have been fairly close to dissent! He stood for a few seconds looking at his foot and the stumps.
Very good batting from Hildy. Meschede applied himself well and was upset to have got out. Our opening bowling was good and Yorks couldn't get away. Three early wickets were hard won.
Alex Barrow kept wicket quite well I thought and it is good to have a competent third wickie/batsman around when Jos/Craig are on England duty etc.
There was good body language/banter in the team when we were in the field yesterday.
Very good batting from Hildy. Meschede applied himself well and was upset to have got out. Our opening bowling was good and Yorks couldn't get away. Three early wickets were hard won.
Alex Barrow kept wicket quite well I thought and it is good to have a competent third wickie/batsman around when Jos/Craig are on England duty etc.
There was good body language/banter in the team when we were in the field yesterday.
Actually John that was the most noise from Somerset I have heard for quite a long time.
It was good to hear.
It was good to hear.
Mike - what worries me is not the lbw per se but the report that Tres played the wrong line against a ball that did not deviate. Pyrah is military medium so there's no earthly way that Tres could have been beaten for pace.
But, on the other hand, he took them for 70 odd.
So maybe the issue is less reaction speed, more concentration?
But, every other batsmen in the side, bar maybe Hildreth, would like to have whatever 'issues', Tres has at the moment.
But, on the other hand, he took them for 70 odd.
So maybe the issue is less reaction speed, more concentration?
But, every other batsmen in the side, bar maybe Hildreth, would like to have whatever 'issues', Tres has at the moment.
In times when resources are stretched for various reasons my thoughts often turn to whether we might make any new signings.
I was looking at South Africa vs Holland and I note that the polish sounding opener for Holland took 98 off SA.
I assume that anyone playing for Holland would be automatically eligible to work in County cricket under EU employment law.
I was looking at South Africa vs Holland and I note that the polish sounding opener for Holland took 98 off SA.
I assume that anyone playing for Holland would be automatically eligible to work in County cricket under EU employment law.
Well I'm sure you'll keep us up to date with his other performances that will put him in the eyes of county selectors during this season.
As in the Greg Kennis 127 scenario a number of years ago against a good NZ attack. One performance does not a career make.
Hope he gets the chance to show a little more if it is there.
As in the Greg Kennis 127 scenario a number of years ago against a good NZ attack. One performance does not a career make.
Hope he gets the chance to show a little more if it is there.
Their message board doesn't seem to have got off the ground yet. So far the posters are from Somerset - although that Grockle fellow could have a foot in both camps!
Nope, once you've been out of the county for over 35 years you are only an Associate Yorkie
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