Somerset
To Lord's or Notts to Lord's
Jamie back into the fray
By Grockle
September 9 2013
With the welcome news that England have released their tray carrier Jamie Overton to do his job for his county we travel to Trent Bridge for the first of hoepfully 12 succesful days to finish off the 2013 season. Peter Trego is fit to play though Jos Buttler will be missing from the One day semi final line-up
v Nottinghamshire YB40 @ TRENT BRIDGE Monday 9 September 2013
One campaign for glory and another for first division survival. That is Somerset's lot at the end of a disappointing season where a couple of shafts of light have been reaching the T20 Quarter finals and this semi final against Notts for a day at Lord's for the put upon supporters from the West Country
Marcus Trescothick will pick from the following players;
Trescothick, Kieswetter, Trego, Compton, Hildreth, Barrow, Meschede, Gregory, Waller, Leach, Overton J, Thomas, Chawla, Kirby
The hopes of most supporters is that Peter Trego is back to full use of his hand as his oe day batting has been one of the highlights of a dismal season for the player. Craig Kieswetter is also a vital batting component of the side coupled with the bowling of Craig Meschede which has blossomed in the one day competition after a shaky start. Good contributions from Steve Kirby, returning after injury and Jamie Overton added to the mystery of Piyush Chawla is planned to blunt the Notts batting line-up and if we also get runs from the skipper and James Hildreth (surely due some kind of score) we ought to overhaul them.
However the question is the one that always follows Somerset into these events. Which unit will turn up? The devastating batting unit with bowlers who do more than is expected or the weak and fragile middle order who can throw away good starts and produce ineffectual targets in the space of 10 overs while the bowlers bleed runs at vital times.
We lose the toss on a rain delayed start with the game reduced to 35 overs. Chris Read puts us in, the side being;
Trescothick, Kieswetter, Trego, Compton, Hildreth, Gregory, Meschede, Chawla, Thomas, Overton J and Kirby
It goes pear shaped from the start as the skipper tickler the fourth ball and is out for a duck with nothhing on the board. He reallyy does have to consider moving down the order, his foot movement is nowhere and he is puttiig pressure on his side by goign early far too often.
In comes Pete Trego almost from the start. He and the keeper start to reset the initial powerplay. By the end of it we have just over 40 on the board but it is not on track because CK swings at a wide one and toe ends it to Read at 37 after sixing just the ball before.
Somerset make an error in my opinion then by seinding in Nick Compton. Pete is not in trouble and he needs someone to move the score along - James Hildreth? However Compo gets down to it and takes his side past 50. Unfortunately he does slow the rate down and therefore in the 60's starts to look to get it shifting again and skies one 3 for 62 after about 10 of the 35.
James arrives on his 29th birthday with a job to do and we hope for a good scuttling Hilda innings. Not to be though and we go into trouble as Hildreth plays all around a straight one and sees his middle stump uprooted for 5. Ball he should have hit!! 77 for 4 after 15 and Lewis Gregory will face the spin of Samit Patel for the first time in the game. It's a bit of a dog's breakfast at the moment.
It goes from "Bad" to "How mch worse can it get" when Mullaney fools Pete with a slow one and he pops it back for a C&B having scored 40. We are trundling at just over 5 an over and have less than 100 after 20 overs with 5 wickets left. Gregory does the same thing to the same bowler at 102 - absolutely pathetic batting in this position and we are in a deep hole we are not going to walk away from. I've had enough. I'm not going to report on this any more except to tell you that Piyush Chawla is at the wicket with little hope of getting this score past 150 unless somethhing drastic happens!!!
Bowled out for 109 in 25 and a bit overs
Notts knocked them off in just over 16 against valiant but poorly supported bowling. A bad bad bad one day performance. Probably the worst in 5 years and little more to say really. Bye Bye YB40 2013 with one hell of a whimper.
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 09/09/2013 05:24
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09/09/2013 05:24
09/09/2013 05:24
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:04:32:05 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:04:32:05 by Grockle.
Think we can discount Buttler and Overton being released.
Trent Bridge not usually much of a turner, this year's Test pitch notwithstanding so maybe we'll see only the one spinner being picked?
Mike gave an encouraging fitness bullet-in re
ete. Will Kirby be risked if fit?
Team could be (?)
Trescothick
Kieswetter
Trego
Hildreth
Compton
Meschede
Chawla
Gregory
Thomas
Waller (?)
Kirby (?)
Not too many obvious alternatives even if Kirby is not fit or even if we don't want two spinners?
Dibble might be the only one that springs to mind and would, presumably, replace Kirby if Steve is not fit?
I suppose we could play an extra batsman rather than a second spinner?
I might be inclined to play Barrow instead of Waller, as the above team would still have six bowling options if you took Max out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:06:20:05:14 by Grockle.
Trent Bridge not usually much of a turner, this year's Test pitch notwithstanding so maybe we'll see only the one spinner being picked?
Mike gave an encouraging fitness bullet-in re
ete. Will Kirby be risked if fit?
Team could be (?)
Trescothick
Kieswetter
Trego
Hildreth
Compton
Meschede
Chawla
Gregory
Thomas
Waller (?)
Kirby (?)
Not too many obvious alternatives even if Kirby is not fit or even if we don't want two spinners?
Dibble might be the only one that springs to mind and would, presumably, replace Kirby if Steve is not fit?
I suppose we could play an extra batsman rather than a second spinner?
I might be inclined to play Barrow instead of Waller, as the above team would still have six bowling options if you took Max out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:06:20:05:14 by Grockle.
Nos said last week that he hoped Jos and Jove would be released, so I assume it wasn't a complete no go as an option.
Maybe Carberry for Hamps or not tomorrow could be a clue...
Maybe Carberry for Hamps or not tomorrow could be a clue...
Would be huge if Jos could play.
I think the availability or otherwise of Jos and Pete could easily make the difference between us being favourites for the match or not.
But even if they're not available then I think the prospects seem a bit brighter than they were with Meschede and Gregory being guys that are likely to play and whose tails should be up.
I think the availability or otherwise of Jos and Pete could easily make the difference between us being favourites for the match or not.
But even if they're not available then I think the prospects seem a bit brighter than they were with Meschede and Gregory being guys that are likely to play and whose tails should be up.
I think Tregs will be fine to play from bits I have heard.
Kirby too appears to be on track.
Interesting to see who of the main top 7 batters miss out if Tregs+Jos available, Compo appears undroppable in 1 day stuff these days so as wrong as it would be probably Hildy.
Bowling wise Mesch, Chawla and Alfie guaranteed i'd think.
Kirby likely to be one so it's then down to a choice between Jove, Adam, Lewis or Max for the last spot.
Kirby too appears to be on track.
Interesting to see who of the main top 7 batters miss out if Tregs+Jos available, Compo appears undroppable in 1 day stuff these days so as wrong as it would be probably Hildy.
Bowling wise Mesch, Chawla and Alfie guaranteed i'd think.
Kirby likely to be one so it's then down to a choice between Jove, Adam, Lewis or Max for the last spot.
It Confirms on the Hampshire site, that Carberry remains with the England squad and will not be available, but Danny Briggs is available.
Bruggs was only in the T20 squad, I think, so was always likely to be available.
Can't really see England letting us have our guys, if Hants are not allowed Carberry.
Can't really see England letting us have our guys, if Hants are not allowed Carberry.
I suspect that, despite comments to the contrary from Sky, Hants will overhaul this Glamorgan total this afternoon, meaning that Monday's winners would play Hants in the Final.
Thanks for the steer Agod, I was unsure what happened to the winners of each semi final.![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
Hants seem to be attacking the young off spinner now, going for it as they need to
Two main men gone now. Listening to radio wales is great fun, they are trying hard not to be too partisan
Flaming Hell! SKY got it right and the "Oracle" got it wrong. Cricket is such an unpredictable game isn't it?
I enjoyed Willis.He was Hants skewed and was only prepared to admit Glamorgan would win when they needed 35 from 5. Excellent win- Now it's down to us on Monday to make sure the M4 is ridiculous in 2 weeks.
Great to see Glamorgan in a final again, it'll be interesting to see how many they take to Lord's, the usual one man and his dog brigade they get at Cardiff would scarcely fill a bench.
Top stuff from Allenby, and watch out for Hogan, he's a very good bowler, a real game changer when on song.
Top stuff from Allenby, and watch out for Hogan, he's a very good bowler, a real game changer when on song.
Went to the Hants match today, pretty poor game all round apart from Glamorgans PP overs. Crowd of 4100 not good but there were quite a few welsh fans there so a few more might come out of the woodwork for the final. Just hope Somerset can get there.
Heard a rendition of Land of my Fathers, on BBC Radio Solent.
Should we get to the final, I'll be drinking my cider in Italy.
Should we get to the final, I'll be drinking my cider in Italy.
Better hope we don't come second at Lord's to Glamorgan or I doubt BJ will ever live it down...
As my Surrey friend said before the T20 quarter-final, only half-joking, would you rather lose the quarter-final or the final?
I didn't think it was very funny
I didn't think it was very funny
Quote:Botham
Heard a rendition of Land of my Fathers, on BBC Radio Solent.
Should we get to the final, I'll be drinking my cider in Italy.
Mamma Mia!!!
Hurry says....
Pete had a fitness test Friday, batted fine and bowled ok, should be fit for Monday.
Steve is recovering well and should be in the squad.
We are planning WITHOUT Jos+Jove, it is possible they may be released if they want to give them more cricket but we are not planning for it.
* He also admitted we know we are in a relegation battle! "
Absolutely huge 3 days coming up, a win tomorrow and a positive first day Wednesday and it sets up the final few weeks nicely.
A loss Monday and a first day like last week on Wednesday and there are going to be even more daggers out than there are already.....
Pete had a fitness test Friday, batted fine and bowled ok, should be fit for Monday.
Steve is recovering well and should be in the squad.
We are planning WITHOUT Jos+Jove, it is possible they may be released if they want to give them more cricket but we are not planning for it.
* He also admitted we know we are in a relegation battle! "
Absolutely huge 3 days coming up, a win tomorrow and a positive first day Wednesday and it sets up the final few weeks nicely.
A loss Monday and a first day like last week on Wednesday and there are going to be even more daggers out than there are already.....
I'm unclear that people with daggers out are going to know into whom they should plunge said daggers.
I fear that it may be a case of 'Anyone will do.'
I fear that it may be a case of 'Anyone will do.'
Looks like quite a showery picture tomorrow so imagine it may be a case of team winning toss automatically inserting irrespective of the nature of the pitch.
Anyone know of a sports bar that would be showing the match in Toronto? Grizzly?
So I. assume Broad will not play for Notts?Buttler not available because he in EnglandODI series but why not Overton ? He,s just twiddling his thumbs in England dressing room and being a net bowler for his colleagues.What a joke the system is.
Rumour has it that Broad was at the F1 in Italy today, not sure he'll be available
I personally can't understand why Jamie O was picked for these games. The SKY boys today were saying it as doubtful he'll play because he isn't yet ready for them and his record in one dayers for us is really nothing to write home about.
I suppose if it had been a bit of a walk through (which it as never going to be) he might have played in the last one but after losing the first he has little chance.
It is a waste of his time then to be honest.
I suppose if it had been a bit of a walk through (which it as never going to be) he might have played in the last one but after losing the first he has little chance.
It is a waste of his time then to be honest.
Unfortunately can't speak for Toronto MM, as, living close to Calgary I'm 2100 miles away.
Regrettably however, you'll be very hard pressed to find anything other than traditional North American sports being screened anywhere.
Best option is likely to try to find a streaming site on the net, albeit I've stopped doing that, as they tend to be riddled with viruses that play havoc with your laptop !
Cheers.
Grizzzly
Regrettably however, you'll be very hard pressed to find anything other than traditional North American sports being screened anywhere.
Best option is likely to try to find a streaming site on the net, albeit I've stopped doing that, as they tend to be riddled with viruses that play havoc with your laptop !
Cheers.
Grizzzly
Grockle - I think they've picked Jamie because they:
a) Want David Saker to get an extended chance to work with him.
b) Want to assess Jamie's thought-processes about bowling etc (they'll talk to him a lot).
c) Want to assess his temperament - and I think they will play him in one or maybe even two games just to get a little look into that.
d) Are even considering him as an outside possibility for the Ashes, if they like that they see. I think they have one or two concerns about Tremlett's form and the fitness records of both Tremlett and Rankin are far from great - and I think they'll want as many tall bowlers as they can find for Australia.
a) Want David Saker to get an extended chance to work with him.
b) Want to assess Jamie's thought-processes about bowling etc (they'll talk to him a lot).
c) Want to assess his temperament - and I think they will play him in one or maybe even two games just to get a little look into that.
d) Are even considering him as an outside possibility for the Ashes, if they like that they see. I think they have one or two concerns about Tremlett's form and the fitness records of both Tremlett and Rankin are far from great - and I think they'll want as many tall bowlers as they can find for Australia.
None of which is justification for removing him from competitive cricket at the end of the English domestic season.
Taken from VJM in today's Observer.
'Saker gives an interesting insight into the selection criteria for this series. There is an element of creating a training camp, which enables the coaches to familiarise themselves with some of England's talented youngsters. For example, Overton may not actually play in this series but it seems to be regarded that having him on board here is more useful than him playing in the Championship, where he has enjoyed most of his success this year.'
All this while others on central contracts are off on holiday. No consideration given to county cricket.
'Saker gives an interesting insight into the selection criteria for this series. There is an element of creating a training camp, which enables the coaches to familiarise themselves with some of England's talented youngsters. For example, Overton may not actually play in this series but it seems to be regarded that having him on board here is more useful than him playing in the Championship, where he has enjoyed most of his success this year.'
All this while others on central contracts are off on holiday. No consideration given to county cricket.
Like it or not, chaps, without a (relatively, at least) successful England team, there would be no county cricket. And I am afraid that he who pays the piper, usually gets to call the tune.
And without county cricket there is no (relatively, at least) successful England team so the piper has to support the nursery while they are whistling 'who gives a flying..'
FE is right! Without the National Team set up and the money from the ECB IMO most of the smaller counties (not Somerset IMO) would already have disappeared. The only basis on which most could survive would be T20 and even those matches do not bring in much dosh for a lot of counties.
If we are not careful Messrs Atherton, Willis, Stewart, Nicholas etc would have their wish and first class cricket only available in the big cities, etc.
Perhaps a longer term solution could be a sort of return to part-time players where they hold down other jobs and play first class cricket as well! Going backwards I know, but it could be the saviour for some clubs?
If we are not careful Messrs Atherton, Willis, Stewart, Nicholas etc would have their wish and first class cricket only available in the big cities, etc.
Perhaps a longer term solution could be a sort of return to part-time players where they hold down other jobs and play first class cricket as well! Going backwards I know, but it could be the saviour for some clubs?
Quote:Think chicken and egg!!!Frome Exile
Like it or not, chaps, without a (relatively, at least) successful England team, there would be no county cricket. And I am afraid that he who pays the piper, usually gets to call the tune.
Hugely frustrating regarding Overton tomorrow when he hasn't been selected but as we know not remotely surprising it`s never easy playing with your hands tied behind your back but the situation will never change
TMS now saying Jove has been released to play for us tomorrow. Hurrah for common sense!
After the England bowling went for 315 today I suggest Overton should play in the next game and if he isn't going to then release him for an important semi final Mr Giles
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:08:18:45:43 by averageside.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:08:18:45:43 by averageside.
Won't happen Average. We'll be playing and he'll be sorting out the trays for the next one.
I am too old and tired now to contemplate going on a longish - day outing to support our team, but I wish them well tomorrow.
Let's hope that the 'rub of the green' goes their way, and should the 'right team' turn up to play on the day, that they book themselves yet another Final at Lord's.
To all who are going - have a wonderful day and a safe journey.
Best wishes to everyone,
CP
(10 - 4)
Let's hope that the 'rub of the green' goes their way, and should the 'right team' turn up to play on the day, that they book themselves yet another Final at Lord's.
To all who are going - have a wonderful day and a safe journey.
Best wishes to everyone,
CP
(10 - 4)
Thanks CP - living in Yorkshire I can make the match even tho I am the wrong side of 70 - trains and taxis just about affordable !
Quote:Ronniesabre
Buttler s bigger miss!!
Only if he fires Ron and we've done it before without him. May be a usual thing from now on and one man does not a team make.
If we can't do it without one man we don't deserve to be in the Final anyway.
I'd argue in the Glos match it was down to Jos we are even in this semi, there we go.
Think team almost picks itself?
10 are guaranteed in my eyes, top 5 Tres, CK, Tregs, Nick, Hildy, lower 5, Mesch, PC, Alfie, Kirby and Jove.
Harsh on Max to miss out but can't see him playing alongside PC.
Team will be same as Glos just with Chris or Alex in at 6 to replace Jos.
Really looking forward to the day now, I have always felt 40 over cricket is our strength. I want to bat first, bat big and then put the pressure on under lights. Got a sneaky feeling it may be Tres's day tomorrow, glimpses in last few innings that someone is going to be the end of a big one soon.....
Think team almost picks itself?
10 are guaranteed in my eyes, top 5 Tres, CK, Tregs, Nick, Hildy, lower 5, Mesch, PC, Alfie, Kirby and Jove.
Harsh on Max to miss out but can't see him playing alongside PC.
Team will be same as Glos just with Chris or Alex in at 6 to replace Jos.
Really looking forward to the day now, I have always felt 40 over cricket is our strength. I want to bat first, bat big and then put the pressure on under lights. Got a sneaky feeling it may be Tres's day tomorrow, glimpses in last few innings that someone is going to be the end of a big one soon.....
Is he going to be there tomorrow WSM?
If he isn't, what difference does it make what he did earlier in the season?
You surely aren't claiming we are where we are SIMPLY because of Jos Buttler? Do me a favour
Hasn't Craig got us through other games? Aren't there eleven people in a team?
Jos is not going to be present. Should we simply not turn up and spend the day weeping wearing sackcloth and ashes?
Please people don't give the man godlike qualities he simply hasn't got. He is a talented youngster who sometimes does amazing things and who sometimes doesn't who plays in a side who are quite capable of winning a game or losing one without his presence
And will have to do one or the other without him
If he isn't, what difference does it make what he did earlier in the season?
You surely aren't claiming we are where we are SIMPLY because of Jos Buttler? Do me a favour
Hasn't Craig got us through other games? Aren't there eleven people in a team?
Jos is not going to be present. Should we simply not turn up and spend the day weeping wearing sackcloth and ashes?
Please people don't give the man godlike qualities he simply hasn't got. He is a talented youngster who sometimes does amazing things and who sometimes doesn't who plays in a side who are quite capable of winning a game or losing one without his presence
And will have to do one or the other without him
No Overton named in the squad announced tonight on club site.
Somerset will pick their final line up for the Nottinghamshire match from the following squad of 13- Marcus Trescothick, Alex Barrow, Piyush Chawla, Nick Compton, Lewis Gregory, James Hildreth, Chris Jones, Craig Kieswetter, Steve Kirby, Craig Meschede, Alfonso Thomas, Pete Trego and Max Waller.
Somerset will pick their final line up for the Nottinghamshire match from the following squad of 13- Marcus Trescothick, Alex Barrow, Piyush Chawla, Nick Compton, Lewis Gregory, James Hildreth, Chris Jones, Craig Kieswetter, Steve Kirby, Craig Meschede, Alfonso Thomas, Pete Trego and Max Waller.
I think I'd fetch Barrow in instead of Max to give a bit more depth to the batting.
I never said he is the sole reason we got there.
But he was a big part of it, he is without doubt one of our top 3 or 4 big hitting batsmen and is quite clearly a big loss.
If Craig or Pete were missing I would be similarly as dissapointed at one of our better players missing out.
I'll be there cheering on whichever 11 we select.
I don't apologise for being a huge admirer of Jos and thinking that he has the potential to go on and be one of the worlds leading one day batsmen.
The fact he is local and seems so grounded only goes to enhance what I think we have on our hands (for now)
But he was a big part of it, he is without doubt one of our top 3 or 4 big hitting batsmen and is quite clearly a big loss.
If Craig or Pete were missing I would be similarly as dissapointed at one of our better players missing out.
I'll be there cheering on whichever 11 we select.
I don't apologise for being a huge admirer of Jos and thinking that he has the potential to go on and be one of the worlds leading one day batsmen.
The fact he is local and seems so grounded only goes to enhance what I think we have on our hands (for now)
He's a huge loss, WSM.
Anyone remember the last time we played a big knock-out game at Trent Bridge?
Anyone remember the last time we played a big knock-out game at Trent Bridge?
Overton has definitely been added to the squad so add him to the 13 already quoted.
I love it when you all get down on SK. Tends to mean he'll have a good game.
Hope that happens tomorrow even though you'd rather have the 11 wicket Jamie over the 16 wicket Steve with only less than a run of strike rate between them
Think lucky thoughts people. If we do it well Craig Meschede, our best one day bowler will eclipse them both.
Hope that happens tomorrow even though you'd rather have the 11 wicket Jamie over the 16 wicket Steve with only less than a run of strike rate between them
Think lucky thoughts people. If we do it well Craig Meschede, our best one day bowler will eclipse them both.
I'd have Kirby over Jove every time in one day side presently.
However it isn't an issue for me tomorrow as we will need both to play.
Seam attack of Alfie, Kirby, Jove, Mesch, Tregs with PC to spin then out.
However it isn't an issue for me tomorrow as we will need both to play.
Seam attack of Alfie, Kirby, Jove, Mesch, Tregs with PC to spin then out.
Suspect we'll have had to give an undertaking that Jamie will play - otherwise he would not have been released?
Well its not a hard one to give is it.
As far as batsmen are concerned we'd all better hope that Pete is fit as he is our most consistent one day batsmen of this year with a 70% conversion rate of innings over 50 runs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:08:22:16:09 by Grockle.
As far as batsmen are concerned we'd all better hope that Pete is fit as he is our most consistent one day batsmen of this year with a 70% conversion rate of innings over 50 runs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:08:22:16:09 by Grockle.
15 overs of Pete & CK in good form would see us in a very strong position I'm sure.
As someone mentioned above, a timely ton from Marcus wouldn't go amiss either.
Good luck one & all.
Grizzzly
As someone mentioned above, a timely ton from Marcus wouldn't go amiss either.
Good luck one & all.
Grizzzly
Game may well be a rain-reduced T20 type affair by the looks of the beeb forecast. Not forecast to dry up totally until after 8.
Is there a reserve day, if needed?
Is there a reserve day, if needed?
Good Luck to the Lads today. Pleased to see Jove has been released by England.
Enjoy the day all those of you there and give them a big cheer!
Enjoy the day all those of you there and give them a big cheer!
Am I right in thnkng that the reserve day only comes into play if there is not a possible finish today. eg if the team batting second bats for minimum overs then there is a D/L, likewise if there is a reduced overs game?
Obviously, this wouldn't suit those going today at all, but I'd rather a full game tomorrow, when the forecast is fine, then an on-and-off 20 over a side type affair tonight.
Forecast seems to be in an almost hourly flux, the latest version is improved, thankfully. Let's hope the actual weather matches it.
My iphone app which has proved accurate on the hourly forecast on the day has 50% chance of rain throughout the afternoon and evening in Nottingham
If it rains it rains.
If it don't it don't.
Let the weather worry about itself, for whatever it does, we are going to win.
If it don't it don't.
Let the weather worry about itself, for whatever it does, we are going to win.
Well we got here in the sunshine & its just tipped it down, lets hope that's it for a while.
Cricinfo states the start will be delayed, average. No news yet on toss or teams.
Well at least the drainage looks good.
Not sure the skies look so great though.
Not sure the skies look so great though.
Willis thinks that Trego "has displaced Kieswetter at the top of the Somerset order."
Quote:AGod
God, Charles Colville is an absolute idiot.
Now that is scary AG because almost the same words must have gone through both our heads at almost the same time.
Isn't he just.
It is nice that Willis thinks CK is an England opener though - may have to remind him of that sometime soon
SLC - a ridiculous and prolonged point trying to explain to everyone the completely obvious point that if the game is not finished today, it will begin tomorrow under the same parameters that were in place at the point when it's abandoned today!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:16:35:51 by AGod.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:16:35:51 by AGod.
In Sardinia at the moment, anyone know if there is commentary on the net, tune-in radio?
Right have to bat first in a game that is likely to be further reduced by rain.
Think we have to kitchen-sink this boys.... possibly take the batting power-play as soon as we are able (I can't remember if it can be taken immediately after the compulsory batting power-play?)
Think we have to kitchen-sink this boys.... possibly take the batting power-play as soon as we are able (I can't remember if it can be taken immediately after the compulsory batting power-play?)
Oh dear - not the start wanted but probably the one we weren't too surprised at. He doesn't move his feet!! He never has.
Colville was correct,it may hurt some but 2 finals lost in last 4 years in this competition
With the bounce in this track, already wondering if we might try to repeat our bouncers as death bowling tactic that we used vs Gloucs?
Really Average? and Notts?
And you can't lose Finals if you don't get to them.
And you can't lose Finals if you don't get to them.
That's if we get them as far as the death overs.
Not a very good position here.
Cannot expect to get enough with D/L reductions likely by just batting sensibly and putting a "par," (for 35 overs ) total on the board.
Will have to risk getting thrashed (by getting bowled out) in order to target a winning total.
Not a very good position here.
Cannot expect to get enough with D/L reductions likely by just batting sensibly and putting a "par," (for 35 overs ) total on the board.
Will have to risk getting thrashed (by getting bowled out) in order to target a winning total.
Unlucky toe end but should he have been swinging at that one?
31 for 2 - are we going to come up short? James... this could be yours if you are up for it. Nick the next man in. Solid NC - wind it out and let Pete do the big stuff.
Lovely 'hello' ball from Gurney though - though it was for Pete.
31 for 2 - are we going to come up short? James... this could be yours if you are up for it. Nick the next man in. Solid NC - wind it out and let Pete do the big stuff.
Lovely 'hello' ball from Gurney though - though it was for Pete.
Grockle - I think a swing is fine but a ball that far outside off-stick should surely be aimed through the off-side, I would say.... uppercut over the slips that sort of thing.
Got that feeling again, should have been James coming in IMHO.
Nick is bogging Pete down once again in a rain reduced game.
5 an over isn't going to cut it
Nick is bogging Pete down once again in a rain reduced game.
5 an over isn't going to cut it
A few too many dot balls at the moment, IMO.
Need to get the strike rotating more.
Need to get the strike rotating more.
Unfortunate but all credit for Nick realising it was slowing and going for it. Now Hilda - get it done please. Happy Birthday JH. Give us a present.
so now we've got another new batsmen in and slowed the rate down even more.
Fingers crossed and eyes closed already :-(
Fingers crossed and eyes closed already :-(
Pretty putrid batting performance again but honestly who isn't surprised?
And here we have, laid out before us, the dying embers of a truly appalling season.
Absolute shambles.
Absolute shambles.
Not quite the embers Swerve but the fire is guttering perhaps. Needs some kindling and a bit of hefty bellows.
Hate to agree with AS but this is pretty poor - I am at the ground and we are playing poorly to say the least. Still hope but lots of runs in this track I think and we are at a big disadvantage losing the toss.
At least the WiFi hotspot is good here and free !
At least the WiFi hotspot is good here and free !
Averageside, the only reason you are watching the match, must be to see us fail, and then gloat on here.
Yeah Rodders. Halfway and what price 200? Less than 4 an over is going to make this real hard to win
Fat lady warming up.
Did I hear that right?
Of 13 CC first innings that Pete has played this season, he has scored zero in 6 of them?
Aye Carumba.
Did I hear that right?
Of 13 CC first innings that Pete has played this season, he has scored zero in 6 of them?
Aye Carumba.
But he's scored over 50 in 7 of the 9 one dayers he'd played before now.
I was looking forward to staying up to watch this all the way through. Now flicking through to see what else is on before midnight. Sorry for those guys who have made the trip, it's a long one.
There's always a chance of a bowling hero but that is what we have to look for now because this is looking to be a very low score on this wicket. 100 off 20 with only 15 to go and 5 wickets in hand does not suggest a big score.
I was looking forward to staying up to watch this all the way through. Now flicking through to see what else is on before midnight. Sorry for those guys who have made the trip, it's a long one.
There's always a chance of a bowling hero but that is what we have to look for now because this is looking to be a very low score on this wicket. 100 off 20 with only 15 to go and 5 wickets in hand does not suggest a big score.
I thought this was a 35 over game not CC.
Any ways my sympathies to those at the ground after a very long coach journey. At the moment the journey home is going to seem endless.
Hopefully the young'uns can give them something to cheer about over the remaining overs and the bowlers put up a fine defence.
Any ways my sympathies to those at the ground after a very long coach journey. At the moment the journey home is going to seem endless.
Hopefully the young'uns can give them something to cheer about over the remaining overs and the bowlers put up a fine defence.
Yes, Grockle, I left work early to watch this as well.
Now turned it off !
I do so hope that we manage to bat out our allocation of overs.
Now turned it off !
I do so hope that we manage to bat out our allocation of overs.
Deeply disappointing. It must be awful being there.
Rotten job for Mesch and Piyush.
How can you be so stupid to a 'gentle medium pacer' - clueless is a good description.
Rotten job for Mesch and Piyush.
How can you be so stupid to a 'gentle medium pacer' - clueless is a good description.
Right, time for these lot to think about whether they can summon the gumption to bat well enough against Surrey to get us out of the relegation mire because there's nothing doing for our batting outfit here.
Poor shot from Chawla too.
How many wickets have gone to defensive pushes? Four, I reckon.
Poor shot from Chawla too.
How many wickets have gone to defensive pushes? Four, I reckon.
Mike you are right but in truth how many times has MT left us less than 20 for one ?
I might just get the early train back to Yorkshire - at least get a good nights sleep to compensate for 60 quid wasted !
I might just get the early train back to Yorkshire - at least get a good nights sleep to compensate for 60 quid wasted !
To win this we need five down in ten overs.
I am trying to think positive.
I am trying to think positive.
Quote:rodders12
Mike you are right but in truth how many times has MT left us less than 20 for one ?
I might just get the early train back to Yorkshire - at least get a good nights sleep to compensate for 60 quid wasted !
Unfortunately, his recent track record is one of consistent failure in the big one-day knock out games.
His duck was no surprise, I'm afraid.
And most of those failures were back when he was still his old, brilliant self, outside of the knock out games.
Last really good knock in one of these was against Northants in a T20 semi back in, I think, 2009?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:18:38:50 by AGod.
Nice wasted journey for our England water carrier. Mr ball must be bowling granades
It is somewhat painful sitting here. Surprised Craig took a single off the 2nd ball of the over leaving Kirby to face 4 but hey ho, its not their fault we're in this mess, it felt like Trego v Notts & not given the bowlers a chance.
Ironic laughter around the ground when we took the powerplay last over summed it up. Real shame as we've a great side on paper, but sadly we never play on paper.
Least we'll not be home too late tonight I guess....
Ironic laughter around the ground when we took the powerplay last over summed it up. Real shame as we've a great side on paper, but sadly we never play on paper.
Least we'll not be home too late tonight I guess....
Gotta laugh Scrumper. At least the fight of Steve may be appreciated tonight because it will be raging against the dying of the light and nothing more because our batsmen have left the bowlers
Money should be refunded, Even prior to this season we`ve been moderate at best with the bat the difference being we could bowl teams out relatively quickly which meant we were able to pick up enough points in championship cricket. In one day cricket we`ve performed relatively well except in games which really really matter yet again we`ve failed spectacularly. Much to ponder over the long long winter months.
Quote:Botham
Coach fare should be reduced.
I reckon they deserve a full refund to be honest
They probably deserve a door-to-door service - take them to their front doors!
Gone to get the early train - I get no pleasure from saying that I did warn you - no sources named and no back up before you remind me Grockle but my friends and neighbours had it right I fear !
Well, time to hope for two days of rain and then that we win a bowl-out!!!
At least our batsmen won't be involved so cannot let us down in abject fashion in a bowl-out!!!
At least our batsmen won't be involved so cannot let us down in abject fashion in a bowl-out!!!
Not really sure what you're on about Rodders but if you need it said - well done whatever it is you are taking credit for.
Shame you feel the need to mention it really if it gives you no satisfaction - seems a little pointless
Shame you feel the need to mention it really if it gives you no satisfaction - seems a little pointless
I would bring Jove on straight-away. We need a quick impact and may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb!
commentators whingeing about the lbw.. it was more out than Kirby's was when he batted!
Get out of the predictable ways and bring on Jove. At the moment we're giving in without a whimper. Excite us.
Way past that by now I would expect. There's very little to get excited about.
Sadly even when we are in a desperate situation we are very predictable in our bowling choices. 2 for Pete, then first change, two for Tommo and second hange.
You get the picture,
You get the picture,
Oh dear.
Been hectic at work this morning, so haven't had chance to look at the score until now.
Just as well, as I don't think my output would have been aided by monitoring that 'effort'.
Marcus just doesn't perform on the big occasions, and - apart from Trigger - it looks like everyone else just folded.
Were there any contributory factors - weather, conditions etc.?
Or has our renowned soft underbelly made yet another unwelcome appearance ?
Feel so sorry for the supporters who paid a lot of money & spent a long time on the road to watch this. It must be soul destroying.
It could be a very long week.
Sigh.............
Grizzzly
Been hectic at work this morning, so haven't had chance to look at the score until now.
Just as well, as I don't think my output would have been aided by monitoring that 'effort'.
Marcus just doesn't perform on the big occasions, and - apart from Trigger - it looks like everyone else just folded.
Were there any contributory factors - weather, conditions etc.?
Or has our renowned soft underbelly made yet another unwelcome appearance ?
Feel so sorry for the supporters who paid a lot of money & spent a long time on the road to watch this. It must be soul destroying.
It could be a very long week.
Sigh.............
Grizzzly
Yes.
It was obvious in our innings that the one thing slightly out of ordinary in this pitch for the bowlers was quite a bit of bounce...that, alone, might have persuaded the Captain to opt for Overton.
But if we have one pace bowler in the team for whom bounce isn't really part of what he's about, it was Pete.
Curious captaincy.
It was obvious in our innings that the one thing slightly out of ordinary in this pitch for the bowlers was quite a bit of bounce...that, alone, might have persuaded the Captain to opt for Overton.
But if we have one pace bowler in the team for whom bounce isn't really part of what he's about, it was Pete.
Curious captaincy.
Cone on Tres, stop being so boring, bring on Jove.
He should have opened with two slips.
He should have opened with two slips.
Quote:Grizzzly
Oh dear.
Been hectic at work this morning, so haven't had chance to look at the score until now.
Just as well, as I don't think my output would have been aided by monitoring that 'effort'.
Marcus just doesn't perform on the big occasions, and - apart from Trigger - it looks like everyone else just folded.
Were there any contributory factors - weather, conditions etc.?
Or has our renowned soft underbelly made yet another unwelcome appearance ?
Feel so sorry for the supporters who paid a lot of money & spent a long time on the road to watch this. It must be soul destroying.
It could be a very long week.
Sigh.............
Grizzzly
Grizzly, the lone mitigating factor is that there's been rain around meaning that, once we lost the toss, it was very difficult to know what we'd need to set but safe to presume it would need to be very large indeed if it was then going to reduced to a D/L target.
I thought we looked quite dangerous for the first three balls of the match.
Impressive.
Impressive.
Quote:AGod
Grizzly, the lone mitigating factor is that there's been rain around meaning that, once we lost the toss, it was very difficult to know what we'd need to set but safe to presume it would need to be very large indeed if it was then going to reduced to a D/L target.
Strange way to approach an innings though, based on a weather hunce.
Guys: I am completely new to this site and have just had to register to join in. I have been a Somerset supporter for 60 years now and have never felt as low about SCCC as I do now. I am unable to get to Taunton often these days as I live in the Home Counties so I would like to know how you all feel about Dave Nosworthy.
We look so totally inept and leaderless and as I grew up in Keynsham I am desperately trying not to see MT as part of the problem although it is looking more and more like he is.
But where is our beloved DOC?? Has he done anything other than give his mates a few favours?
I read 'A Year in the Life...' when it came out and figured DN must really be something if they thought he was the best candidate.
Are there any rumours in Taunton re his departure?
We look so totally inept and leaderless and as I grew up in Keynsham I am desperately trying not to see MT as part of the problem although it is looking more and more like he is.
But where is our beloved DOC?? Has he done anything other than give his mates a few favours?
I read 'A Year in the Life...' when it came out and figured DN must really be something if they thought he was the best candidate.
Are there any rumours in Taunton re his departure?
The way things are going I reckon there will be a lot of rumours about a whole load of things soon, regardless of the outcome of the rest of this week.
Welcome SC by the way !
Grizzzly
Welcome SC by the way !
Grizzzly
Welcome to the madhouse stevecav, it's a great site.
You'll get plenty of pointers over the next week or so of the views of the members on this site that's for sure.
You'll get plenty of pointers over the next week or so of the views of the members on this site that's for sure.
What I am on about Grockle is the deep seated problems at our club which most supporters refuse to acknowledge. Anyone who says they exist is immediately attacked by the likes of you and BJ and asked to justify their opinion with names and numbers of why they think this and who told them et al.
You are intelligent enough to know that sources will never be revealed.
I know you can't do it being far away but for those that can ( perhaps Mike in TA1 ) - go to all the committee meetings. Listen to the@#$%&spouted. Vote when you get the chance. Stand up for what you think is needed. Remember certain people who burst the Botham bully years long back. Ring Brian Rose and ask him why he got out.
Talk to ex players who are around Taunton. Anything but sit back and accept where we have got to.
I know I waste my time but I keep trying !
You are intelligent enough to know that sources will never be revealed.
I know you can't do it being far away but for those that can ( perhaps Mike in TA1 ) - go to all the committee meetings. Listen to the@#$%&spouted. Vote when you get the chance. Stand up for what you think is needed. Remember certain people who burst the Botham bully years long back. Ring Brian Rose and ask him why he got out.
Talk to ex players who are around Taunton. Anything but sit back and accept where we have got to.
I know I waste my time but I keep trying !
Steve, DN is in South Africa attending his fathers funeral.
Will be a lot of soul searching within the camp during the winter I would have thought.
Time for some brave decisions I feel.
Will be a lot of soul searching within the camp during the winter I would have thought.
Time for some brave decisions I feel.
My best guess, Stevecav, is that there will be few, if any changes, that people outside the club will notice.
We'll bring back the same playing staff - probably minus Jos Buttler - the same management team etc for what is likely to be a Div 2 club next season.
We'll bring back the same playing staff - probably minus Jos Buttler - the same management team etc for what is likely to be a Div 2 club next season.
Well Jove was wild in the end. Least Kirby bowled with some fire & desire, can't fault the guy for that.
Welcome Steve.
What inept, boring captaincy by Tres. He didn't try anything different, just went with the usual plan.
As the Sky commentator just said, we should have opened with Jove, giving him confidence, not saying "here you are, the others have tried and failed, you have a go". What poor man management.
What inept, boring captaincy by Tres. He didn't try anything different, just went with the usual plan.
As the Sky commentator just said, we should have opened with Jove, giving him confidence, not saying "here you are, the others have tried and failed, you have a go". What poor man management.
Yep Rodders you are wasting your time until you provide something more than a statement from someone none of us know.
If you believe it to be true then fine but don't post as if it's fact until you have facts to back it up. Don't post as if you saying it makes it a cast iron guarantee.
It's not a case of the sources being revealed. Where is the factual basis to back it up? you talk as if its obvious - I'll say again, I've been hearing this rumour since the departure of Andy Hayhurst and I've yet to see anyone give me anything but rumour and things X heard Y say to Z. I'm not saying you're wrong but until you have something concrete this is a total waste of time.
Yep you are right. Go the AGM demand answers and when you have something to show for it come back THEN and say I told you so and I'll say "Gosh yes you did how wonderful you are for getting the truth out of them"
If you believe it to be true then fine but don't post as if it's fact until you have facts to back it up. Don't post as if you saying it makes it a cast iron guarantee.
It's not a case of the sources being revealed. Where is the factual basis to back it up? you talk as if its obvious - I'll say again, I've been hearing this rumour since the departure of Andy Hayhurst and I've yet to see anyone give me anything but rumour and things X heard Y say to Z. I'm not saying you're wrong but until you have something concrete this is a total waste of time.
Yep you are right. Go the AGM demand answers and when you have something to show for it come back THEN and say I told you so and I'll say "Gosh yes you did how wonderful you are for getting the truth out of them"
I hope you are wrong AGod,
I just feel very sad, and very disappointed with the season,as must all the Somerset supporters.
I just feel very sad, and very disappointed with the season,as must all the Somerset supporters.
Prey do tell Rodders12, for those of us uninitiated in the workings of Somerset, exactly what are the deep seated problems that we are meant to rise up against, as you see them.
Quote:Roger ivanhoe
Steve, DN is in South Africa attending his fathers funeral.
Will be a lot of soul searching within the camp during the winter I would have thought.
Time for some brave decisions I feel.
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. When I asked where is DN I didn't really mean at this precise moment, I meant 'where is he in all this?'.
Do he and MT get on do we think?
I've just seen MT on Sky - at least he didn't say anything about 'taking the positives'!
You believe this is all the fault of Trescothick's captaincy Botham. Did you watch the batting display?
Please tell us all how the skipper was supposed to stop that happening?
Is the real criticism based on how long it took him to bring on the 19 year old seamer? Do you really think it would make a difference when?
what plan should he have used to defend 109 over 35 overs?
Don't take the frustration out on a scapegoat.
Would like to mention that our most economical figures and first breakthrough came from the guy some would not have played. The figures were significantly better before the last 2 and a bit overs when he was put back on and it was done and dusted.
Bad bad bad TEAM batting performance which left nothing for the bowlers to do but elongate the game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:20:38:46 by Grockle.
Please tell us all how the skipper was supposed to stop that happening?
Is the real criticism based on how long it took him to bring on the 19 year old seamer? Do you really think it would make a difference when?
what plan should he have used to defend 109 over 35 overs?
Don't take the frustration out on a scapegoat.
Would like to mention that our most economical figures and first breakthrough came from the guy some would not have played. The figures were significantly better before the last 2 and a bit overs when he was put back on and it was done and dusted.
Bad bad bad TEAM batting performance which left nothing for the bowlers to do but elongate the game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:20:38:46 by Grockle.
The only positive outcome I can take from this (mis)match, is that it concentrates minds wholly on the last two CC matches.
I don't think there's anything to be gained from pulling this one apart, we really have to move on, gather our resources and get behind the boys for the remainder of the season.
Yep I think you are absolutely right BJ. What was there tonight that we haven't seen before this season?
Probably our worst one day performance for 5 years? Mark it as never to happen again and move on.
Probably our worst one day performance for 5 years? Mark it as never to happen again and move on.
Quote:stevecavQuote:Roger ivanhoe
Steve, DN is in South Africa attending his fathers funeral.
Will be a lot of soul searching within the camp during the winter I would have thought.
Time for some brave decisions I feel.
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. When I asked where is DN I didn't really mean at this precise moment, I meant 'where is he in all this?'.
Do he and MT get on do we think?
I've just seen MT on Sky - at least he didn't say anything about 'taking the positives'!
The only time that I've seen Tres asked about DN was before the Warks game (I think). It was a long time ago and he was asked by the Sky guy "How's it all working out with DN," and Tres's reply was "Not sure, really."
Trouble is Grockle, there have - & continue to be - far too many 'bad Team performances' & 'bad days at the office'.
The main job of a skipper is surely to get the very best out of his players.
By any way of measuring things Marcus simply hasn't succeeded in doing that, in any form of the game.
When you look at the talent we have had over the last few years, that we haven't won anything since 2005 is frankly bordering on criminal.
IMHO of course.
Grizzzly
P.S. It might be viewed that the whole mess is down to DN. That's difficult to gauge, as - unsurprisingly - he doesn't seem to have 'connected' with supporters in the same way as BR did. But the problems on display this season are hardly new, so one tends to the view that it's a much wider issue than anything to do with DN.
The main job of a skipper is surely to get the very best out of his players.
By any way of measuring things Marcus simply hasn't succeeded in doing that, in any form of the game.
When you look at the talent we have had over the last few years, that we haven't won anything since 2005 is frankly bordering on criminal.
IMHO of course.
Grizzzly
P.S. It might be viewed that the whole mess is down to DN. That's difficult to gauge, as - unsurprisingly - he doesn't seem to have 'connected' with supporters in the same way as BR did. But the problems on display this season are hardly new, so one tends to the view that it's a much wider issue than anything to do with DN.
Brian is enjoying his retirement.....oops sorry he's at lords. What happens if he gets them over the line. Oh I say!!! Something stinks in all if this for me.
Nope Grizzz the whole damn mess is down to the whole damn organisation and tonights bad performance was, as it usually is down to the whole damn team of eleven men who didn't get the job done.
A captain might take responsibility and even take the honourable course but tonight was NOT the fault of one man.
I'm not interested in the past results. That's for the winter and Marcus will have to take responsibility with all the others for his part in it BUT in the same way a couple of months ago a game was laid at the door of Steve Kirby I will not fail to comment when someone looks around for someone to blame for "unexciting bowling" in a lost cause and puts the whole game at that man's feet.
My opinion of course as you say.
A captain might take responsibility and even take the honourable course but tonight was NOT the fault of one man.
I'm not interested in the past results. That's for the winter and Marcus will have to take responsibility with all the others for his part in it BUT in the same way a couple of months ago a game was laid at the door of Steve Kirby I will not fail to comment when someone looks around for someone to blame for "unexciting bowling" in a lost cause and puts the whole game at that man's feet.
My opinion of course as you say.
Yes I have noticed that Nailsea.
Lets hope he is wrong.
We have had the problem of being unable to handle Pressure for some years.Which is a concern for Wednesday game.I just hope they can pull themselves off the floor.
Lets hope he is wrong.
We have had the problem of being unable to handle Pressure for some years.Which is a concern for Wednesday game.I just hope they can pull themselves off the floor.
What a shocker.
Clueless and gutless in equal measure.
Yes the toss was important but that does not excuse us being shot out in 25 overs. And against a team that has a reputation for blowing the big occasion.
No positives to take out of it and we went out with a whimper with the usual captaincy by numbers. It is time for MT to stand down and the powers that be can't tiptoe on eggshells on this matter any longer. I am not blaming him for the defeat but it is time for a fresh approach.
Clueless and gutless in equal measure.
Yes the toss was important but that does not excuse us being shot out in 25 overs. And against a team that has a reputation for blowing the big occasion.
No positives to take out of it and we went out with a whimper with the usual captaincy by numbers. It is time for MT to stand down and the powers that be can't tiptoe on eggshells on this matter any longer. I am not blaming him for the defeat but it is time for a fresh approach.
Well Grockle I find your posts as tiresome as you find mine so once again we will agree to disagree.
You want something concrete to back up my other post - fine. It is just about a CONCRETE certainty that we will win nothing this season.
It is a fairly concrete certainty that we will get relegated unless something significant changes.
You believe what you wish as you always do but this is a results driven business and if I know no more than you do what pray is your excuse other than meaningless platitudes and unreal optimism.
We did not just lose today we were demolished, embarrassed, humiliated and shown up for what we have become. I ask again - what is your excuse but don't bother to reply because you will just criticise me and offer nothing constructive. You never do really I have come to realise which may be why you level the same criticism at me.
And you may be right who knows.
See you in division two I guess !
You want something concrete to back up my other post - fine. It is just about a CONCRETE certainty that we will win nothing this season.
It is a fairly concrete certainty that we will get relegated unless something significant changes.
You believe what you wish as you always do but this is a results driven business and if I know no more than you do what pray is your excuse other than meaningless platitudes and unreal optimism.
We did not just lose today we were demolished, embarrassed, humiliated and shown up for what we have become. I ask again - what is your excuse but don't bother to reply because you will just criticise me and offer nothing constructive. You never do really I have come to realise which may be why you level the same criticism at me.
And you may be right who knows.
See you in division two I guess !
Excellent summary Grizzly,but the dinosaurs at the club and a few on this site will say its "no problem" and things will continue as long as a million plus pounds rolls in from the ECB it never changes.
As a team we seemed to have lost that togetherness, Somerset against the rest etc. When we get into tight spots, no one appears willing to step up and dig us out of that spot, at least not a regular basis.
Once things start going badly everything goes downhill very fast and no one is able to rescue it.
It can't be a happy camp the number of times it's occurred this season.
Deep breaths needed for Wednesday.
Once things start going badly everything goes downhill very fast and no one is able to rescue it.
It can't be a happy camp the number of times it's occurred this season.
Deep breaths needed for Wednesday.
For a supporter this evening has been devastating. We've pinned our season on this, then bang, in front of millions we are an embarrassment.
At half way, we could have thought, we are in the mire, but how can we get out of it? Let's try something different, but no, same old same old.
It's rather like ftm, for years my thoughts were ridiculed, but some teams now use this position very effectively.
We had the chance for players to make names for themselves, just like Jos in his meteoric rise.
We blew it in front of Greg Blewett.
At half way, we could have thought, we are in the mire, but how can we get out of it? Let's try something different, but no, same old same old.
It's rather like ftm, for years my thoughts were ridiculed, but some teams now use this position very effectively.
We had the chance for players to make names for themselves, just like Jos in his meteoric rise.
We blew it in front of Greg Blewett.
I didn't say I was blaming Tres for the whole thing Grockle.
As I've said before, I have no idea what the root cause(s) of our problems are, (albeit an inexplicable collective lack of confidence seems to be the main issue).
I simply said he wasn't getting the best out of his players.
Why they continue to perform time & time again like a bunch of frightened rabbits is beyond me, but the man at the top surely must take responsibility, especially as his own performances have hardly been inspring this season.
Frankly, I don't know whay the likes of James & Alf can't produce the good when it matters either.
I'd be happy if we were 'moving on'. Unfortunately, the only place we we are moving is backwards.
Grizzzly
As I've said before, I have no idea what the root cause(s) of our problems are, (albeit an inexplicable collective lack of confidence seems to be the main issue).
I simply said he wasn't getting the best out of his players.
Why they continue to perform time & time again like a bunch of frightened rabbits is beyond me, but the man at the top surely must take responsibility, especially as his own performances have hardly been inspring this season.
Frankly, I don't know whay the likes of James & Alf can't produce the good when it matters either.
I'd be happy if we were 'moving on'. Unfortunately, the only place we we are moving is backwards.
Grizzzly
Now why insult me Rodders? I've said nothing about your posts being tiresome and yes I disagree with you.
Once again my advice is that if you can't handle that then don't keep replying to me.
You say you now more than me - then put it on paper or what do you want us to do with what you know? I have no idea who you are or what you know so what you tell me means absolutely nothing until something is there in black and white.
And again an insult? I write more than - how do you put it "meaningless platitudes" and "unreal optimism" so you can take your opinion and stick it where the sun don't shine and take your own "meaningless rumours" and "mind numbing" negativity with you because if you think I post with no substance then I will return the favour and say the same about you - happy now we've had our little spat?
Hopefully there will be some realism in there when you calm down after a disappointing night.
If you presently brought what you have to a journalist you wouldn't get through the front door. They require at least two unrelated sources to confirm something. If you have that take it and get it published. If you don't then it is nothing until you have.
In fact if it is so cast iron why don't your unimpeachable sources publish and be damned?
I'll still be here whether your 'concrete certainty' is that or not
Once again my advice is that if you can't handle that then don't keep replying to me.
You say you now more than me - then put it on paper or what do you want us to do with what you know? I have no idea who you are or what you know so what you tell me means absolutely nothing until something is there in black and white.
And again an insult? I write more than - how do you put it "meaningless platitudes" and "unreal optimism" so you can take your opinion and stick it where the sun don't shine and take your own "meaningless rumours" and "mind numbing" negativity with you because if you think I post with no substance then I will return the favour and say the same about you - happy now we've had our little spat?
Hopefully there will be some realism in there when you calm down after a disappointing night.
If you presently brought what you have to a journalist you wouldn't get through the front door. They require at least two unrelated sources to confirm something. If you have that take it and get it published. If you don't then it is nothing until you have.
In fact if it is so cast iron why don't your unimpeachable sources publish and be damned?
I'll still be here whether your 'concrete certainty' is that or not
I didn't say you were blaming him either Grizzz my original comment was to someone who was. but you replied directly to me so I replied back.
Its a very big mess and the early winter is not going to be pleasant or pain free.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:21:35:22 by Grockle.
Its a very big mess and the early winter is not going to be pleasant or pain free.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:21:35:22 by Grockle.
Quote:I agree RS. I suspect that when the inevitable changes occur at the end of the season, they will be the ones that Brian Rose wanted to make at the end of last season but was prevented from making. The outcome will be that we have lost a very good DOC for no reason, and endured a wasted season.Ronniesabre
Brian is enjoying his retirement.....oops sorry he's at lords. What happens if he gets them over the line. Oh I say!!! Something stinks in all if this for me.
Why was chawla playing tonight? If not to bowl, then bring in Maxi, who will save runs and make impossible catches.
Quote:Nailsea_Fizz
As a team we seemed to have lost that togetherness, Somerset against the rest etc. When we get into tight spots, no one appears willing to step up and dig us out of that spot, at least not a regular basis.
Once things start going badly everything goes downhill very fast and no one is able to rescue it.
It can't be a happy camp the number of times it's occurred this season.
Deep breaths needed for Wednesday.
When we are put under pressure with the bat, we tend to fold.
MOST teams haven't been good enough to put our batting under pressure in one-day cricket this season but when the better teams in the competition have managed to, such as tonight and at Cardiff, we've seen the same kind of "fold job," in one-day cricket that we've seen on a regular basis in the CC (where almost everybody has been 'good,' enough to put us under pressure).
I don't doubt for one moment that if our first innings starts badly against Surrey then we will not turn that innings around - instead, we will go meekly into the night.
One thing is for certain you will never get any journalists probing into what's happening off the field at the club, they are too concerned at being "frozen out" on any cricket stories.And anyway it's not exactly Man Utd,who cares in the sporting world except a few thousand west country members & followers.
Grizzly - Hildreth's recent record in the one-day knock-out games is, I think, nearly as uninspiring as Marcus's.
Like Marcus he tends to fail, in one-day cricket, when the stakes are highest.
He did play well in the Pro 40 Final with Warks and in one knock match against Essex (I forget which compo) but he seems to fail far too often when the stakes are high.
More often than not, it's Kieswetter or Buttler that deliver for us (if anyone does) in the one-day knock out games and one of those two may be off shortly.
Like Marcus he tends to fail, in one-day cricket, when the stakes are highest.
He did play well in the Pro 40 Final with Warks and in one knock match against Essex (I forget which compo) but he seems to fail far too often when the stakes are high.
More often than not, it's Kieswetter or Buttler that deliver for us (if anyone does) in the one-day knock out games and one of those two may be off shortly.
He didn't bowl Botham because there was nothing to bowl with.
Patel didn't bowl either until late on.
If they'd played Max he wouldn't have bowled either, unless we wanted to get away quicker.
You do realise that barring a miracle and about 4 wickets before they got to 50 this game was over before Somerset bowled a ball don't you?
Oh and Average. Please identify the posts here where the people you lovingly call 'dinosaurs' have said there is NO problem at the club. I'd love to see that one when you find it.
Otherwise don't let your in built bias completely blind you and make you only use a bit of your brain smaller than the said 'dinosaur'.
You've done quite well tonight - don't spoil it with meaningless and totally inaccurate aggression.
Patel didn't bowl either until late on.
If they'd played Max he wouldn't have bowled either, unless we wanted to get away quicker.
You do realise that barring a miracle and about 4 wickets before they got to 50 this game was over before Somerset bowled a ball don't you?
Oh and Average. Please identify the posts here where the people you lovingly call 'dinosaurs' have said there is NO problem at the club. I'd love to see that one when you find it.
Otherwise don't let your in built bias completely blind you and make you only use a bit of your brain smaller than the said 'dinosaur'.
You've done quite well tonight - don't spoil it with meaningless and totally inaccurate aggression.
A very very sad evening! Now in my mid-seventies and played and watched lots of matches, one knows that some are won and some are lost, some won at an easy jaunt, some lost overwhelmingly., and lots of inbetweens.
The sad thing about tonight seemed to be that nobody other than perhaps SK muttering in his beard, seemed to care much, at least as far as I could see from the TV. There were even a few players actually smiling!! I wanted them all to look angry and show signs of extreme disappointment. I couldn't see much.
The positives are still that we have some talented young players coming through, but they need to be encouraged and given suitable opportunities to learn their trade. A lot of the opportunities they have been given over the last years, albeit more by accident than design, have proved that most of them have what it will take to succeed.
Finally, IMO the best ambassador AND best player we have ever had has not been able to perform to his own exacting standard. There are many differing opinions why that is. For myself although I have no direct knowledge of the true position, other than his own words that his ankle problems are being managed, IMO the long standing ankle problem has drastically affected his batting ability and along with his age has meant that he is not dominating the new ball like he has for nearly 20 years. I think a look at the number of ducks and failures he has had while opening this season must mean there is a problem which has to be addressed. I am sure he feels that he is only a hundred away from reassuring himself that he has not lost his openers skill.
I have said before nothing would please me more than him being able to bring back the good times. Unfortunately I don't think it is very likely now. Nevertheless, the joy and entertainment he has brought to many of us both in his Somerset and International career can never be erased.
We have two matches more this season that are much more important than tonight's game. I would happily rubbish a lot of what I have said above, and say what a twerp I am, if our hero made match winning contributions in both games.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:21:37:06 by old boy!.
The sad thing about tonight seemed to be that nobody other than perhaps SK muttering in his beard, seemed to care much, at least as far as I could see from the TV. There were even a few players actually smiling!! I wanted them all to look angry and show signs of extreme disappointment. I couldn't see much.
The positives are still that we have some talented young players coming through, but they need to be encouraged and given suitable opportunities to learn their trade. A lot of the opportunities they have been given over the last years, albeit more by accident than design, have proved that most of them have what it will take to succeed.
Finally, IMO the best ambassador AND best player we have ever had has not been able to perform to his own exacting standard. There are many differing opinions why that is. For myself although I have no direct knowledge of the true position, other than his own words that his ankle problems are being managed, IMO the long standing ankle problem has drastically affected his batting ability and along with his age has meant that he is not dominating the new ball like he has for nearly 20 years. I think a look at the number of ducks and failures he has had while opening this season must mean there is a problem which has to be addressed. I am sure he feels that he is only a hundred away from reassuring himself that he has not lost his openers skill.
I have said before nothing would please me more than him being able to bring back the good times. Unfortunately I don't think it is very likely now. Nevertheless, the joy and entertainment he has brought to many of us both in his Somerset and International career can never be erased.
We have two matches more this season that are much more important than tonight's game. I would happily rubbish a lot of what I have said above, and say what a twerp I am, if our hero made match winning contributions in both games.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:09:21:37:06 by old boy!.
Old Boy - I don't know who you had in mind with the smilers - but one of the guys smiling was Pete when he was batting and I think that's because (IMO) he genuinely relishes the contest, pressure and competition.
I think one or two others tend to shrink from it.
I think one or two others tend to shrink from it.
The only thing this side should concentrate on now are those two matches OB.
Total focus on only one result.
All the rest can wait until after the end of the season.
But then it is going to be blood on the walls one would hope because this cannot go on
Total focus on only one result.
All the rest can wait until after the end of the season.
But then it is going to be blood on the walls one would hope because this cannot go on
Whatever anyone else might say, we didn't try anything different, when we had the opportunity, I'll not forgive Tres for that.
AGod and Grockle.
Thanks - I note what you say. I have said all I intend to for the moment on the subjects I have raised. Will happily read but not respond further to the comments. I feel I have said all I need to.
Thanks - I note what you say. I have said all I intend to for the moment on the subjects I have raised. Will happily read but not respond further to the comments. I feel I have said all I need to.
Quote:Grockle
The only thing this side should concentrate on now are those two matches OB.
Total focus on only one result.
All the rest can wait until after the end of the season.
But then it is going to be blood on the walls one would hope because this cannot go on
Blood on the walls!! I agree!!
AGod,
Marcus was one of those smiling I am afraid, as noted by the sky team.
Maybe his smile was frustration,embarrassment,admission of defeat who knows.
Marcus was one of those smiling I am afraid, as noted by the sky team.
Maybe his smile was frustration,embarrassment,admission of defeat who knows.
I've seen Marcus "smile," after these losses before, Roger.
I think it's not really a smile at all but rather "a brave face."
I think it's not really a smile at all but rather "a brave face."
Most of what I personally feel about this evening's display has been said by others, so there is no need for me to comment further on this abject annihilation.
Sadly, the result has not surprised me too much, as we have seen a number of similar displays of capitulation in the past.
I feel deeply for the disappointment that it has caused all those fans and supporters who gave up their hard - earned money and time to witness the proceedings.
Where is the pride and passion on the field of play?
I am not sure that it was recognisible tonight.
Sadly, the result has not surprised me too much, as we have seen a number of similar displays of capitulation in the past.
I feel deeply for the disappointment that it has caused all those fans and supporters who gave up their hard - earned money and time to witness the proceedings.
Where is the pride and passion on the field of play?
I am not sure that it was recognisible tonight.
AGod, The smile was during the match.
However your ability to read into the mind of others amazes me and many others on this site.
A Psychologist perhaps.!
However your ability to read into the mind of others amazes me and many others on this site.
A Psychologist perhaps.!
Now is the winter of our discontent...
A very bad day to be a Somerset supporter. Really glad I decided not to travel.
Disagree Grockle re:Chawla - yes he might have been expensive but who wasn't??! He was one of the few who jsut might have taken a few wickets an sown some beginnings of doubt in the Notts team Long-shot I know but Tres never thinks laterally.
A very bad day to be a Somerset supporter. Really glad I decided not to travel.
Disagree Grockle re:Chawla - yes he might have been expensive but who wasn't??! He was one of the few who jsut might have taken a few wickets an sown some beginnings of doubt in the Notts team Long-shot I know but Tres never thinks laterally.
Well, there we are then. Watching the match was depressing but a damn sight less so than reading the comments on here.
I guess the majority is in the right - how could a socialist argue otherwise?
Somerset are useless, clueless, unmotivated, a waste of space, and should offer a full refund to all those supporters they duped into paying for a coach trip by kidding them they were actually supporting a cricket team. Since, after all, we are the ones who keep the club going by sitting on our rears typing at keyboards and, in some but not all instances, paying a membership fee, we have an absolute right to demand certain results from the young men who take the field and to subject them to all kinds of character assassination if they fail to meet our requirements.
Regardless of the fact that every time they take the field they are facing eleven other fit and determined young men possessed of what it takes to get a first-class contract and that sometimes we are bound to come off second best. And that, whatever certain over-analytical commentors here may think, success and failure at cricket are governed by so many, such conflicting and such subtle factors that they cannot possibly be broken down into handy bite-sized chunks and retain any credibility.
Today was a shocker, no question. Our boys did their best, of course, and for whatever reason their collective best was horribly, horribly short of the best they can do at other times.
Does this mean we are a lousy team? Is it indicative of some deep-seated malaise within the club? Or does it just mean that this year a talented group of cricketers, for reasons far too complicated to explain, failed to perform to their collective potential despite having (mostly) done so, and at times exceeded it, for six years previously?
Did the six seasons preceding this one simply not happen?
I guess the majority is in the right - how could a socialist argue otherwise?
Somerset are useless, clueless, unmotivated, a waste of space, and should offer a full refund to all those supporters they duped into paying for a coach trip by kidding them they were actually supporting a cricket team. Since, after all, we are the ones who keep the club going by sitting on our rears typing at keyboards and, in some but not all instances, paying a membership fee, we have an absolute right to demand certain results from the young men who take the field and to subject them to all kinds of character assassination if they fail to meet our requirements.
Regardless of the fact that every time they take the field they are facing eleven other fit and determined young men possessed of what it takes to get a first-class contract and that sometimes we are bound to come off second best. And that, whatever certain over-analytical commentors here may think, success and failure at cricket are governed by so many, such conflicting and such subtle factors that they cannot possibly be broken down into handy bite-sized chunks and retain any credibility.
Today was a shocker, no question. Our boys did their best, of course, and for whatever reason their collective best was horribly, horribly short of the best they can do at other times.
Does this mean we are a lousy team? Is it indicative of some deep-seated malaise within the club? Or does it just mean that this year a talented group of cricketers, for reasons far too complicated to explain, failed to perform to their collective potential despite having (mostly) done so, and at times exceeded it, for six years previously?
Did the six seasons preceding this one simply not happen?
If you truly support your team you support them in defeat as in victory.
Piyush Chawla should have been tried, it would have been an end of season pitch we were playing on, if it didn't work out then take him off after a couple of overs..
Some players have gone on playing too long such as Andy Caddick and Graham Rose I hope Marcus doesn't do the same, I would like to remember him on how good he was not how bad he was at the end.
That's all I am going to post on this thread it was so embarrassing to watch today.
Some players have gone on playing too long such as Andy Caddick and Graham Rose I hope Marcus doesn't do the same, I would like to remember him on how good he was not how bad he was at the end.
That's all I am going to post on this thread it was so embarrassing to watch today.
Just back from the worst away trip I can ever remember.
I try to be as positive as possible but that was as bad as it gets.
No fight what so ever, so many wickets thrown away, I could go on and on
Over a half day off work, 320 miles, 6 hours driving and the expense for that.
I can cope with losing but I want to at least compete and see some fight from my team.
How we pick ourselves up for Wednesday I've no idea.
It's a different day but we are in a mindset now where when things start to go wrong we collapse, our batters seen to be fearful everytime they walk out, our confidence as a team appears zero.
Long and thoroughly miserable day, good night.....
I try to be as positive as possible but that was as bad as it gets.
No fight what so ever, so many wickets thrown away, I could go on and on
Over a half day off work, 320 miles, 6 hours driving and the expense for that.
I can cope with losing but I want to at least compete and see some fight from my team.
How we pick ourselves up for Wednesday I've no idea.
It's a different day but we are in a mindset now where when things start to go wrong we collapse, our batters seen to be fearful everytime they walk out, our confidence as a team appears zero.
Long and thoroughly miserable day, good night.....
What a shambles today. We flunked it with the bat and then showed nothing in the field. I agree that Chawla should have been bowling early as he is a wicket taker and the only way to win was by taking lots of wickets early. To this end, I couldn't understand why Jamie was left until the 9th over, by which time it was pretty much all over. Yes he may have disappeared to all parts but it showed little faith in him and he may as well have stayed with England. Why not go down fighting with an attacking field and some fire and hostility? Instead we opened with Trego - a great trier and difficult with a red ball when it is seaming around but was he really our best wicket taking option with the new ball tonight? I love Tres and I hope he has another season in him as a player but it has to be said that unfortunately this season has been an unmitigated disaster for him, not only with the bat but more importantly, captaincy-wise. Bad toss decisions, an inexplicable unenforced follow-on, negative and formulaic tactics in the field. It really does pain me to say it as I have been an apologist for him many times in the past, but it is time for fresh impetus from a leadership point of view. Kieswetter may be an option but I also wouldn't be averse to an outsider coming in to take the reigns as we are a side that need shaking up.
Only slight angle I can think for not bowling Chawla was to not let them look at him before our final game of the season back there.
Otherwise surely he had to bowl right at the start to at least try.
We all know it was a lost cause from way out but they had to at least look as if we were trying. To not even try your star overseas leggie before they got to 30/40 runs seems to me bizarre
Otherwise surely he had to bowl right at the start to at least try.
We all know it was a lost cause from way out but they had to at least look as if we were trying. To not even try your star overseas leggie before they got to 30/40 runs seems to me bizarre
I'm home too now. In all the understandable negativity, well done to Pete for 1000 runs in limited overs matches this year. Fantastic stuff & he tried his best today too to give some sort of score to bowl at. I can't fathom out why he's had such a shocker in the 4 day game though...
The dismissal of CK was the one that bugged me most today. Half expected Marcus to go, Hildreth isn't the player he was, Compton isn't really a 1 day player. But Craig had just hit 2 fantastic shots. I said to the wife that he's done the scoring for that over, don't do anything silly coz there's a long way to go, & next ball he's out with a wild swish at it. He's as talented as Jos in my book, but why try that shot at that point? Do players just lose concentration & focus that easily?
I don't really go with some of the comments about players smiling possibly meaning they don't care. But it did feel like some had already accepted defeat when they came out to field, simply because some of the play wasn't at the normal level, & Kirby stood head & shoulders above the rest with his desperation to get wickets & keep encouraging the others to give it everything.
I did wonder before the game whether we were a batsman light with 7 bowlers in the side, but with the benefit of hindsight, I can't imagine Jones or Barrow would have made a huge difference over say Gregory. Early season Alviro perhaps.
With Marcus, its all well & good pointing out his pretty poor season, but is he stopping someone better from playing? I'm off to bed now, but do Jones or Barrow have a better average & deserve to start every game ahead of Marcus?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:00:45:13 by brt1919.
The dismissal of CK was the one that bugged me most today. Half expected Marcus to go, Hildreth isn't the player he was, Compton isn't really a 1 day player. But Craig had just hit 2 fantastic shots. I said to the wife that he's done the scoring for that over, don't do anything silly coz there's a long way to go, & next ball he's out with a wild swish at it. He's as talented as Jos in my book, but why try that shot at that point? Do players just lose concentration & focus that easily?
I don't really go with some of the comments about players smiling possibly meaning they don't care. But it did feel like some had already accepted defeat when they came out to field, simply because some of the play wasn't at the normal level, & Kirby stood head & shoulders above the rest with his desperation to get wickets & keep encouraging the others to give it everything.
I did wonder before the game whether we were a batsman light with 7 bowlers in the side, but with the benefit of hindsight, I can't imagine Jones or Barrow would have made a huge difference over say Gregory. Early season Alviro perhaps.
With Marcus, its all well & good pointing out his pretty poor season, but is he stopping someone better from playing? I'm off to bed now, but do Jones or Barrow have a better average & deserve to start every game ahead of Marcus?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:00:45:13 by brt1919.
It's a new day.
The world doesn't seem to have ended even though you would have thought it would after the captain smiled at the end, or during a very poor defeat to a side also looking to get to the final of a major national competition.
I'm sure there will be some in Taunton today pondering once more on what went wrong last night. Marcus will be fretting over a number of things including Botham 'not forgiving' him for not trying something to 'excite' him (not sure what) in a bowling attempt at making sense of a batting fiasco.
Players will be going over shots and 'what if's. DN will probably be wondering whether there is any point in returning to the UK to be blamed by some for a match he wasn't even in the country for.
Thanks to those who remembered that Pete has been a rock during this year's one day games and well done to him for trying to keep it together while all around him were throwing it away.
If Jos wants another county after last evening at Trent Bridge I can't see anyone blaming him.
If the worst speculation is true then revelations about the 'goings on' behind closed doors at Taunton will shock us all, if ever or whenever they finally come to light - I'll keep breathing for the time being though personally rather than holding my breath for that one to come.
The constant critics of the club are probably coming out of their dreamless sleep of joy and making preparations for another day of gloating. The supporters will be waking from fretting, listless dozing after nightmares of relegation hell. The 'fans'? Well they fall between two stools so they have probably spent the early hours preparing more incessant analysis of the curve of Marcus's mouth and trying to work out whether he was disloyally having a good time smile or simply as confused in mind and body as many of the rest of us.
ANYWAY
New day dawning people and the forecast for tomorrow is SURREY. I'm up for another one...anyone care to join me?
This supporting lark is a bit taxing though isn't it?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:08:30:13 by Grockle.
The world doesn't seem to have ended even though you would have thought it would after the captain smiled at the end, or during a very poor defeat to a side also looking to get to the final of a major national competition.
I'm sure there will be some in Taunton today pondering once more on what went wrong last night. Marcus will be fretting over a number of things including Botham 'not forgiving' him for not trying something to 'excite' him (not sure what) in a bowling attempt at making sense of a batting fiasco.
Players will be going over shots and 'what if's. DN will probably be wondering whether there is any point in returning to the UK to be blamed by some for a match he wasn't even in the country for.
Thanks to those who remembered that Pete has been a rock during this year's one day games and well done to him for trying to keep it together while all around him were throwing it away.
If Jos wants another county after last evening at Trent Bridge I can't see anyone blaming him.
If the worst speculation is true then revelations about the 'goings on' behind closed doors at Taunton will shock us all, if ever or whenever they finally come to light - I'll keep breathing for the time being though personally rather than holding my breath for that one to come.
The constant critics of the club are probably coming out of their dreamless sleep of joy and making preparations for another day of gloating. The supporters will be waking from fretting, listless dozing after nightmares of relegation hell. The 'fans'? Well they fall between two stools so they have probably spent the early hours preparing more incessant analysis of the curve of Marcus's mouth and trying to work out whether he was disloyally having a good time smile or simply as confused in mind and body as many of the rest of us.
ANYWAY
New day dawning people and the forecast for tomorrow is SURREY. I'm up for another one...anyone care to join me?
This supporting lark is a bit taxing though isn't it?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:08:30:13 by Grockle.
It's still yesterday here Grockle 
, so I'll have to wait a few more hours before our brave new dawn arises.
Hope the sun you have over there decides to rise over here as well !
Grizzzly
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:04:57:28 by Grizzzly.
, so I'll have to wait a few more hours before our brave new dawn arises.
Hope the sun you have over there decides to rise over here as well !
Grizzzly
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:04:57:28 by Grizzzly.
I'm still here Grocks old chap, yes after a disturbed night, though not by any means entirely caused by such a disappointing display. My opinion (all i can offer) is that Marcus has become a problem rather than a solution. It is saying nothing new, I know, to point out that he has suffered dramatic loss of form with the bat. Perhaps more debatable, that his captaincy lacks creativity and for whatever cause too many of his decisions this year have turned out to have poor outcomes.
On whether his state is a result of deep-seated conflicts within the club hierarchy, overuse of the facial muscles etc., I have no opinion, but said state cannot be helping the overall form of the team. The magnificance of his contribution over so many years unfortunately means that comparison is dramatically sad. I hope this will be addressed decisively.
We need the whole team to stand up in these last two matches.
On whether his state is a result of deep-seated conflicts within the club hierarchy, overuse of the facial muscles etc., I have no opinion, but said state cannot be helping the overall form of the team. The magnificance of his contribution over so many years unfortunately means that comparison is dramatically sad. I hope this will be addressed decisively.
We need the whole team to stand up in these last two matches.
If you check my posts I have consistently backed the team, and hoped and prayed for better performances, but after last night, and a round trip from Hampshire to Nottingham, enough is enough !!!
I will repeat what I posted several weeks ago:
Lets find a captain in the D B Close mould
We need a hairdryer in the dressing room ( Sir Alex Ferguson)
There has to be some carnage in the coaching and playing staff at the end of the season
Lets get out there on Wednesday and fight, I repeat fight for a win over Surrey
I will repeat what I posted several weeks ago:
Lets find a captain in the D B Close mould
We need a hairdryer in the dressing room ( Sir Alex Ferguson)
There has to be some carnage in the coaching and playing staff at the end of the season
Lets get out there on Wednesday and fight, I repeat fight for a win over Surrey
Time for a new Surrey thread Grockle,to at least try to put last night behind us.
Won't be any carnage in the playing staff - guaranteed. Everybody bar Jos and Hussain (the latter not worth retaining) is under contract.
I do not know how many even half-decent players from elsewhere are out of contract but one suspects virtually none as there is usually wide-spread publicity over those that are e.g James Harris, Jack Brooks, RHB from last season, NC and Jos from this season.
Marcus might fall on his sword but, if he does not, I've little doubt that the club will take no decisive action in this respect. The situation will just fester until such time as he does eventually resign.
Our soft batsmen are likely to capitulate against Surrey and relegation is likely to ensue as a result of that and myriad other laughable batting performances.
Because Div Two is so poor then the chances are that even if there are zero changes in management/coaching as well as the guaranteed lack of them on the playing side, then results will appear to turn around next season in CC2 anyway......which will be the cue for various people to jabber about how wrong people were to call for change.
This will be invalid if comparing CC2 results with this season's CC1 results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:06:56:00 by AGod.
I do not know how many even half-decent players from elsewhere are out of contract but one suspects virtually none as there is usually wide-spread publicity over those that are e.g James Harris, Jack Brooks, RHB from last season, NC and Jos from this season.
Marcus might fall on his sword but, if he does not, I've little doubt that the club will take no decisive action in this respect. The situation will just fester until such time as he does eventually resign.
Our soft batsmen are likely to capitulate against Surrey and relegation is likely to ensue as a result of that and myriad other laughable batting performances.
Because Div Two is so poor then the chances are that even if there are zero changes in management/coaching as well as the guaranteed lack of them on the playing side, then results will appear to turn around next season in CC2 anyway......which will be the cue for various people to jabber about how wrong people were to call for change.
This will be invalid if comparing CC2 results with this season's CC1 results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:06:56:00 by AGod.
Its up NBR even as this one sinks into the slurry of the bottom of page 1 and disappears into the plughole of memory
Glad you are all with us guys and gals.
As the words of Mr Robert Seger passed on to Metallica say;
TURN THE PAGE
Glad you are all with us guys and gals.
As the words of Mr Robert Seger passed on to Metallica say;
TURN THE PAGE
Quote:Grockle
Its up NBR even as this one sinks into the slurry of the bottom of page 1 and disappears into the plughole of memory
As the words of Mr Robert Seger passed on to Metallica say;
TURN THE PAGE
I hope that Mr Nash will also TURN THE PAGE
I don't think it has a great deal to do with Mr Nash North Berwick. He tends to be the public face. Hasn't it more to do with Mr Lavender?
As many have suggested, October and November are going to be 'hot old times' in Taunton and one wonders how 'root and branch' the activites will be.
At least there's no silverware victory for them to hide behind and say 'look on the bright side' about - it's difficult to find a particularly bright side at the present moment.
As many have suggested, October and November are going to be 'hot old times' in Taunton and one wonders how 'root and branch' the activites will be.
At least there's no silverware victory for them to hide behind and say 'look on the bright side' about - it's difficult to find a particularly bright side at the present moment.
Is Nash not chairman of the Board? The buck starts and stops with him Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:07:14:02 by North Berwick John.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:07:14:02 by North Berwick John.
But he has little to do with the day to day running of the club - he is not the paid official, he's the figurehead.
So great - let's shove it all his way...nothing gets done then.
Guy Lavender has to deal with the club personnel as far as I am aware.
So great - let's shove it all his way...nothing gets done then.
Guy Lavender has to deal with the club personnel as far as I am aware.
Grockle - they can still say that 'we were amongst the top 8 T20 sides and top four YB40 sides in the land,' if they are looking for ways to gloss over the inept CC campaign.
Realistically their options for change are probably very limited.
I can't see them changing the DoC whether it's a good idea or not as that would be an admission of failure on their part.
Possibly, DN will decide that he wants to make changes to the rest of the coaching set-up and maybe he'll get free rein to do that?
Playing wise, I bet DN would love to introduce some more nuggety characters to the batting line-up (remember GD's story about our attempt to sign Ashwell Prince as a kolpak, for example) but where are any such new players going to come from?
Possibly DN might find somebody else that fits the bill as a kolpak in addition to an overseas player for next year? That would, no doubt, produce some moaning here about denying a young player a place but DN's job is to get results on the park and the only poster here that I've seen suggest that they'd be happy with a spell of a few years in Div Two to develop the young players is Old Boy.
Div Two is sufficiently poor that we may get out of it with what we've got anyway but one assumes that DN would want to feel confident about doing so and will be sick of this season's CC batting performances.
Realistically their options for change are probably very limited.
I can't see them changing the DoC whether it's a good idea or not as that would be an admission of failure on their part.
Possibly, DN will decide that he wants to make changes to the rest of the coaching set-up and maybe he'll get free rein to do that?
Playing wise, I bet DN would love to introduce some more nuggety characters to the batting line-up (remember GD's story about our attempt to sign Ashwell Prince as a kolpak, for example) but where are any such new players going to come from?
Possibly DN might find somebody else that fits the bill as a kolpak in addition to an overseas player for next year? That would, no doubt, produce some moaning here about denying a young player a place but DN's job is to get results on the park and the only poster here that I've seen suggest that they'd be happy with a spell of a few years in Div Two to develop the young players is Old Boy.
Div Two is sufficiently poor that we may get out of it with what we've got anyway but one assumes that DN would want to feel confident about doing so and will be sick of this season's CC batting performances.
One of the few positives was Craig Meschede, who batted very sensibly and had no luck when bowling.
Pete Trego never gave up along with Tango, who clearly disturbed Jove, by kissing him when he took his wicket.
PT also passed the 1000 run mark.
Pete Trego never gave up along with Tango, who clearly disturbed
Jove, by kissing him when he took his wicket.
PT also passed the 1000 run mark.
No idea why you related that to me AG.
Did I ask some incredibly detailed question about what you thought was going to happen in the winter so you thought you would start today's in depth analysis marathon with a full answer?
If I did it must have been some kind of mind glitch because I don't care presently as there are far more pressing items on my own mind and on other threads. Most pressing at the moment? Is it fish for lunch?
Did I ask some incredibly detailed question about what you thought was going to happen in the winter so you thought you would start today's in depth analysis marathon with a full answer?
If I did it must have been some kind of mind glitch because I don't care presently as there are far more pressing items on my own mind and on other threads. Most pressing at the moment? Is it fish for lunch?
Back to the beach today, but I'll be at Taunton on Thursday supporting my team, just as I was on the first day against Derbyshire. I KNOW who will be the most disappointed man in Somerset this morning,and he will trying his hardest to come good against Surrey. Come on guys lets do our best to help him, support needed.
Well, unless my eyes deceived me Grockle, you were talking in preceding posts about whether anything 'would get done,' and how 'root and branch,' activities might be.
Clearly, this was a code for ruminations about whether to have the tilapia, the red mullet or the bream.
Clearly, this was a code for ruminations about whether to have the tilapia, the red mullet or the bream.
I've just heard Trescothick being interviewed on Radio Somerset. The presenter thought he nearly lost it at one point. Sorry it had nothing to encourage me, but I'll be at the county ground to support tomorrow.
Oh you mean that sentence. Well don't bother writing another chapter and a half for me. If I need it I'll ask for it more specifically than just sticking it in an early morning muse. You just get on and take apart something else.
It isn't a question of type of fish, it's just fish or not fish. See even there you over analyse the question... can't help yourself can you?
It isn't a question of type of fish, it's just fish or not fish. See even there you over analyse the question... can't help yourself can you?
Just thought i'd log on to check the morning mood after the night before and founf that Agod has already summerised up the whole problem and set out the next 12 months action and debate for all with such certainty.
Agod, let me know how my birthday went and Syria turns out. See you all in back in Div 1 for season 2014/2015.
Or just maybe in Taunton this week to yet again hope for a different scenario and some great cricket in the sunshine
Agod, let me know how my birthday went and Syria turns out. See you all in back in Div 1 for season 2014/2015.
Or just maybe in Taunton this week to yet again hope for a different scenario and some great cricket in the sunshine
I would not have started with Jamie- he takes wickets but leaks runs and we couldn't afford 8 an over from the beginning. I said to Mrs GM that Chawla wouldn't bowl so that he was still an unknown for next week.
I picked up a virus over the weekend and I can't say that last night helped my recovery, but I have now saved a train fare, a ticket and incidentals so there we are. I still have bright hopes for tomorrow.
I picked up a virus over the weekend and I can't say that last night helped my recovery, but I have now saved a train fare, a ticket and incidentals so there we are. I still have bright hopes for tomorrow.
Very well put, Mikeindex, William Blessing , West1 and a number of others who posted in similar vein.
I hope that those of you fortunate enough to be able to get to Taunton this week will enjoy the match.
I hope that those of you fortunate enough to be able to get to Taunton this week will enjoy the match.
Went to Trent Bridge yesterday and arrived home last night feeling very down about Somerset Cricket. There are obviously many things which need addressing over the winter what ever division we are in.
Sadly, I feel that it is time to look for a new captain. I don't go with the theory that the new skipper has to be someone who will kick ****. That should be the role of the DoC or first team coach. However he has in my view got to have three vital abilities:
1: Tactical nous and flexibility, sadly something that Marcus showed last night and indeed on many occasions this year that he does not possess.
2: The ability to engender a positive team spirit and make everyone feel good about playing for Somerset and enjoying their cricket and to transmit that to spectators.
3: The ability to make every player feel valued and to encourage them to give of their best.
Unlike football we cannot change squads massively, so we have to look for change internally and, I believe we have the ability within the present group of players to do that.
I do hope that Marcus will continue to play for us, even if he is not skipper. I fear that he may not get the same number of runs as before, being a player who has always relied on eye, rather than technique, but I am sure, being without the cares of captaincy would only help him.
Sadly, I feel that it is time to look for a new captain. I don't go with the theory that the new skipper has to be someone who will kick ****. That should be the role of the DoC or first team coach. However he has in my view got to have three vital abilities:
1: Tactical nous and flexibility, sadly something that Marcus showed last night and indeed on many occasions this year that he does not possess.
2: The ability to engender a positive team spirit and make everyone feel good about playing for Somerset and enjoying their cricket and to transmit that to spectators.
3: The ability to make every player feel valued and to encourage them to give of their best.
Unlike football we cannot change squads massively, so we have to look for change internally and, I believe we have the ability within the present group of players to do that.
I do hope that Marcus will continue to play for us, even if he is not skipper. I fear that he may not get the same number of runs as before, being a player who has always relied on eye, rather than technique, but I am sure, being without the cares of captaincy would only help him.
Then put (TiC) to warn me AG! Wasn't fish anyway - very nice Irish stew but with their US concept of mashed potato!!
And Tops it is much easier to do that when you are actually on the field with a bat for more than an over and leading from the front. It must be very difficult from the present position.
Lots to think about there.
Lots to think about there.
Quote:Casomer
I've just heard Trescothick being interviewed on Radio Somerset. The presenter thought he nearly lost it at one point. Sorry it had nothing to encourage me, but I'll be at the county ground to support tomorrow.
The Sky guys seemed to feel that Tresco seemed pretty flat before the match. Not sure if that was disappointment at having lost the toss or what. Whilst the toss certainly promised to be advantageous to the side batting second, it wasn't as though it was Lord's for an old Gillette Cup Final and the side that was batting first was going to have to bat on something green and moving sideways....
GM, I'd normally have agreed with you about Jamie, but last night, having picked him and being in a desperate position, I'd have opened with him, to give him confidence that the skipper trusted him. I'd have told him, "go on lad, let em have it, let rip, we need early wickets and you're the man to do it!"
Using him, when all others had failed doesn't inspire. so no wonder he went for a few.
I'd also have tried Chawla very quickly. We had absolutely nothing to lose, by being unconventional and everything to gain.
In the end we looked like mugs in front of the watching Nation!
Using him, when all others had failed doesn't inspire. so no wonder he went for a few.
I'd also have tried Chawla very quickly. We had absolutely nothing to lose, by being unconventional and everything to gain.
In the end we looked like mugs in front of the watching Nation!
As already said, by the time the bowlers got their chance we were already mugs.
What the point of taking a gamble on Overton flinging it wide and batsmen piling into Chawla would have been is beyond me I have to admit. Had there been a chink in the armour in the first few overs you may very well have seen Chawla in but if we thought spinners were going to do anything really significant Max or Jack would have been playing.
Getting stuffed in 10 overs would have looked worse. So I personally will forgive Marcus for that bit.
What the point of taking a gamble on Overton flinging it wide and batsmen piling into Chawla would have been is beyond me I have to admit. Had there been a chink in the armour in the first few overs you may very well have seen Chawla in but if we thought spinners were going to do anything really significant Max or Jack would have been playing.
Getting stuffed in 10 overs would have looked worse. So I personally will forgive Marcus for that bit.
There was nothing in the track for spin.
But there was bounce with the new ball for the first few overs. That, IMO, is why we should have taken a flier with Jamie.
Bowling Pete first on a bouncy track made little sense to me, as bounce is not Pete's strength.
I suspect we just stuck to whatever pre-match plan we had made. And we could not have known for sure, pre-match, how much bounce the track would have with the new ball.
But there was bounce with the new ball for the first few overs. That, IMO, is why we should have taken a flier with Jamie.
Bowling Pete first on a bouncy track made little sense to me, as bounce is not Pete's strength.
I suspect we just stuck to whatever pre-match plan we had made. And we could not have known for sure, pre-match, how much bounce the track would have with the new ball.
Apologies for being repetitive but I think that ass does have to be kicked at:
GL and his committee
Coaching Staff
Captaincy
Majority of team
We then need to beat/thrash Surrey and stay up
GL and his committee
Coaching Staff
Captaincy
Majority of team
We then need to beat/thrash Surrey and stay up
Guys: I realise that I am amongst a community who care deeply about Somerset, as I do, who have the advantage over me of being much closer to it all.
I am having many circular debates with my father now nearly 90 who is starting to realise he won't see us win the CC now.
The reason I signed up for this last night (thanks again for the welcomes by the way) is to try to understand from you guys.
I have seen the whole range of views expressed here from just a collective lack of confidence, to 'deep seated problems'.
Unless I was being totally naive and wearing rose coloured spectacles when I read Andy Nash's book I was certainly not left with any hint of deep seated problems, and that was up to date to 8 months ago. Everything from the grass roots up was depicted as positive and forward looking.
We started the season with high hopes and some blistering early performances in YB40 in particular, then two key things happened, which may well have started the irreversible decline. We failed to put the boot on Warwickshire's throat in the CC. I could not believe how negative MT's mindset must have been if he was seriously concerned it would let them back into the match if they scored well when following on.
Then, we failed to defend 320+ against Leics in YB40 and they got em for 4.
Simple failure of leadership could be behind all this couldn't it? We all now MT has never been a particular strong motivator of men, or tactically astute, but that doesn't make it necessarily wrong to have made him captain.He is after all our talisman and we love him to bits. That should mean the players would want to do it for him. But surely he needed help, i.e MT/DN together - the clue is in the word Director.
Watching from a distance mainly on TV I don't see any evidence that MT's thought processes as captain have been changed for the better at all. Why not?
All I know is I saw DN on BBC back in March and it just seemed like it was just about 'getting us over the line'. I did hear the MT interview when asked how it was going with DN and he said he didn't really know. I just took that as typically honest MT - no BS. And then the alarm bells just kept getting louder until last night's public humiliation. The sad part about it was we all expected it.
All out for 100 time after time can't all be MT's fault can it? But it does indicate no one has read the riot act.
And as for the 'smiling' business,in my book it is no different from the golfer (which I know MT is) keeping his dignity and taking it on the chin when being beaten 7 and 6.
I have seen and heard MT looking and sounding a beaten man many times this season, so don't anyone try to tell me he doesn't care because he smiled last night. He is clearly hurting like hell as we all are.
We need to get behind him and pull this around this week. If we go to Div 2 our problems will magnify - there won't be a divine right to bounce back, and there could be years in the doldrum while we rebuild with the young ones..
So what is it, deep seated problems(like what?), failure of leadership from our DOC (easily fixed), just a series of events that just led us to a bad year, or what?
Sorry to ramble on but I'm playing catch up here...I really wan't to know what the 'Taunton faithful think....
I am having many circular debates with my father now nearly 90 who is starting to realise he won't see us win the CC now.
The reason I signed up for this last night (thanks again for the welcomes by the way) is to try to understand from you guys.
I have seen the whole range of views expressed here from just a collective lack of confidence, to 'deep seated problems'.
Unless I was being totally naive and wearing rose coloured spectacles when I read Andy Nash's book I was certainly not left with any hint of deep seated problems, and that was up to date to 8 months ago. Everything from the grass roots up was depicted as positive and forward looking.
We started the season with high hopes and some blistering early performances in YB40 in particular, then two key things happened, which may well have started the irreversible decline. We failed to put the boot on Warwickshire's throat in the CC. I could not believe how negative MT's mindset must have been if he was seriously concerned it would let them back into the match if they scored well when following on.
Then, we failed to defend 320+ against Leics in YB40 and they got em for 4.
Simple failure of leadership could be behind all this couldn't it? We all now MT has never been a particular strong motivator of men, or tactically astute, but that doesn't make it necessarily wrong to have made him captain.He is after all our talisman and we love him to bits. That should mean the players would want to do it for him. But surely he needed help, i.e MT/DN together - the clue is in the word Director.
Watching from a distance mainly on TV I don't see any evidence that MT's thought processes as captain have been changed for the better at all. Why not?
All I know is I saw DN on BBC back in March and it just seemed like it was just about 'getting us over the line'. I did hear the MT interview when asked how it was going with DN and he said he didn't really know. I just took that as typically honest MT - no BS. And then the alarm bells just kept getting louder until last night's public humiliation. The sad part about it was we all expected it.
All out for 100 time after time can't all be MT's fault can it? But it does indicate no one has read the riot act.
And as for the 'smiling' business,in my book it is no different from the golfer (which I know MT is) keeping his dignity and taking it on the chin when being beaten 7 and 6.
I have seen and heard MT looking and sounding a beaten man many times this season, so don't anyone try to tell me he doesn't care because he smiled last night. He is clearly hurting like hell as we all are.
We need to get behind him and pull this around this week. If we go to Div 2 our problems will magnify - there won't be a divine right to bounce back, and there could be years in the doldrum while we rebuild with the young ones..
So what is it, deep seated problems(like what?), failure of leadership from our DOC (easily fixed), just a series of events that just led us to a bad year, or what?
Sorry to ramble on but I'm playing catch up here...I really wan't to know what the 'Taunton faithful think....
Quote:Cary Castle1
Apologies for being repetitive but I think that ass does have to be kicked at:
GL and his committee
Coaching Staff
Captaincy
Majority of team
We then need to beat/thrash Surrey and stay up
Trouble is, Cary Castle, that there are few effective sticks with which to hit anyone - they're all (players) under contract. All safe in a job for at least one more season. Moreover, there's probably NOBODY that we could sign to take their places even if we decided to terminate the odd contract early?
Somebody (AH?) could try reading the players some sort of riot act but he's got NOTHING with which he could back it up, bar maybe making them do laps of the field or something if they again throw their wickets away
A few bits there to digest Stevecav (welcome by the way). I feel for your dad who must have thought we were close and then seem to have fallen away in pretty dramatic style.
I'm sure you'll get opinions here from the measure to the insane but you may have to give the more thoughtful of the posting population a bit of time to get their thoughts and acts together.
I'm sure you'll get opinions here from the measure to the insane but you may have to give the more thoughtful of the posting population a bit of time to get their thoughts and acts together.
One day results are similar to last year, it's the CC that has changed. Is the difference last year and this, that last year two men stepped up to the plate, PT took 50 wickets (for the first time) and hasn't been able to repeat the magic, Compo scored runs for fun.
Without those two would last year have looked much like this? This is from memory so I could be totally wrong!
Without those two would last year have looked much like this? This is from memory so I could be totally wrong!
Stevecav - Short answer? We don't really know.
One suspects that those that have been with the club for a long time, such as Banger and AH also do not really know.
On balance, I'd say we've got somewhat better results out of the younger players as a group under DN this season than we got out of them under BR. We've definitely got far better results under DN out of the second team.
But senior players have been woeful in the CC under DN this season.
From this, one might infer that DN has been better than Brian at relating to the younger players, but completely failed to gel with the senior players?
Or maybe the senior players all felt really comfortable with BR and were unsettled by the change... starting to feel insecure or what have you and that's affected their form?
Or maybe Brian ruled with a fist of steel and DN is "too nice"?
Or maybe some of the oldest senior players are too far into the downside of their careers and this has put too much pressure on younger senior players, such as Hildreth and Trego (who have not responded well)?
Deep-seated problems? Yes, there is one. Our batsmen are too fond of stroke-making, not fond enough of occupying the crease, IMO. It's been the case for years. In previous years, someone has always had a phenomenal year to carry that batting (usually Marcus but last year it was Compton and in 2010 it was Hildreth & Marcus). This year nobody has been able to carry us and pressure has been transferred to each individual to stand-up and deliver - they haven't been able to withstand the pressure, IMO.
As for 'deep-seated problems,' of the kind that I expect Rodders is alluding to? Who knows?
Some or all of the above and/or many other reasons might be to blame, either alone or in combination with other factors.
One suspects that those that have been with the club for a long time, such as Banger and AH also do not really know.
On balance, I'd say we've got somewhat better results out of the younger players as a group under DN this season than we got out of them under BR. We've definitely got far better results under DN out of the second team.
But senior players have been woeful in the CC under DN this season.
From this, one might infer that DN has been better than Brian at relating to the younger players, but completely failed to gel with the senior players?
Or maybe the senior players all felt really comfortable with BR and were unsettled by the change... starting to feel insecure or what have you and that's affected their form?
Or maybe Brian ruled with a fist of steel and DN is "too nice"?
Or maybe some of the oldest senior players are too far into the downside of their careers and this has put too much pressure on younger senior players, such as Hildreth and Trego (who have not responded well)?
Deep-seated problems? Yes, there is one. Our batsmen are too fond of stroke-making, not fond enough of occupying the crease, IMO. It's been the case for years. In previous years, someone has always had a phenomenal year to carry that batting (usually Marcus but last year it was Compton and in 2010 it was Hildreth & Marcus). This year nobody has been able to carry us and pressure has been transferred to each individual to stand-up and deliver - they haven't been able to withstand the pressure, IMO.
As for 'deep-seated problems,' of the kind that I expect Rodders is alluding to? Who knows?
Some or all of the above and/or many other reasons might be to blame, either alone or in combination with other factors.
Following On - last year was a bit of an odd season anyway because there was so much rain. Teams finished close to one another in the final table, largely because of the rain. I think it's possibly unwise to read too much into last season except that, yes, NC's runs were obviously important to Somerset. But I wouldn't conclude that SCCC were necessarily the second best team in last year's CC.
I agree AG I don't think Somerset were the second best team in the championship last year. But without the contributions from PT and NC we would probably have been in another relegation battle. What I was suggesting was, perhaps the problems of this season were present last season but were masked by the wickets of PT and Nick's runs?? Just a thought!
Yes, certainly agree about NC's runs.
Pete made a Herculean effort last season to keep the bowling afloat in the face of so many injuries.
Pete made a Herculean effort last season to keep the bowling afloat in the face of so many injuries.
Quote:mikeindex
Well, there we are then. Watching the match was depressing but a damn sight less so than reading the comments on here.
I guess the majority is in the right - how could a socialist argue otherwise?
Somerset are useless, clueless, unmotivated, a waste of space, and should offer a full refund to all those supporters they duped into paying for a coach trip by kidding them they were actually supporting a cricket team. Since, after all, we are the ones who keep the club going by sitting on our rears typing at keyboards and, in some but not all instances, paying a membership fee, we have an absolute right to demand certain results from the young men who take the field and to subject them to all kinds of character assassination if they fail to meet our requirements.
Regardless of the fact that every time they take the field they are facing eleven other fit and determined young men possessed of what it takes to get a first-class contract and that sometimes we are bound to come off second best. And that, whatever certain over-analytical commentors here may think, success and failure at cricket are governed by so many, such conflicting and such subtle factors that they cannot possibly be broken down into handy bite-sized chunks and retain any credibility.
Today was a shocker, no question. Our boys did their best, of course, and for whatever reason their collective best was horribly, horribly short of the best they can do at other times.
Does this mean we are a lousy team? Is it indicative of some deep-seated malaise within the club? Or does it just mean that this year a talented group of cricketers, for reasons far too complicated to explain, failed to perform to their collective potential despite having (mostly) done so, and at times exceeded it, for six years previously?
Did the six seasons preceding this one simply not happen?
Bravo, Mr. Index.
My dear old mother always said live for the present!! Last night is history. im going to listen to her words and when tomorrow comes........
Who knows what the underlying reasons are SC - it's a mystery that vexes most of us.
The only thing I would just mention re AN's book, is that in his position, he could hardly be expected to say that everything was other than rosy, whatever gremlins may have been lurking in the background.
Strange thing is, every time we get an overseas player, we get reports of how wonderful it is at SCCC.
Yet, we continue to perform like drains.
Wonder what would happen to Arsene Wenger if Arsenal got to the final stages of the Championship/FA Cup etc. & kept getting beaten 7-0.
I don't think he & his coaching team would keep their jobs for long.......
Grizzzly
The only thing I would just mention re AN's book, is that in his position, he could hardly be expected to say that everything was other than rosy, whatever gremlins may have been lurking in the background.
Strange thing is, every time we get an overseas player, we get reports of how wonderful it is at SCCC.
Yet, we continue to perform like drains.
Wonder what would happen to Arsene Wenger if Arsenal got to the final stages of the Championship/FA Cup etc. & kept getting beaten 7-0.
I don't think he & his coaching team would keep their jobs for long.......
Grizzzly
However people with no reason to lie have come out recently and said what a great club we have, what a privilege it has been, what a great atmosphere etc. Mr Pieterson boarded the plane with those words on his lips. Why would he wish to conceal the truth? In the past couple seasons players and officials have left us for other pastures and not always with our best wishes. Would not one of these have spilled the beans by now had there been these behind the scenes events to which some allude?
Have to just point out that to a great extent DN has left the first team alone, especially in the CC for quite a lot of the first two thirds of the season.
It certainly seems that he has been working quite a lot around the seconds. Whether that was the correct policy to follow - well it will be interesting to see what assessment is made by people who are monitoring this for the club.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:15:52:47 by Grockle.
It certainly seems that he has been working quite a lot around the seconds. Whether that was the correct policy to follow - well it will be interesting to see what assessment is made by people who are monitoring this for the club.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:15:52:47 by Grockle.
99% of people that leave the club will have to sign a none disclosure form as part of their severance pay that would include management.
.
.
It's been a characteristic of the club for a number of years that the visiting players have heaped praise on their team mates and the clubs organisation. I have the same question Raiboy.
I also want to know why Nick, when given the option, didn't decide to leave this supposed seas of discontent and mismanagement but agreed to put up with it for another 3 years. I can only hope that if the rumours are true he made it a condition of his staying that this was sorted out immediately.
Something has not gone right and it doesn't seem to be a marginal thing but where the problem lies I am at a loss to suggest. But I'm sure others will fill in the gaps.
I also want to know why Nick, when given the option, didn't decide to leave this supposed seas of discontent and mismanagement but agreed to put up with it for another 3 years. I can only hope that if the rumours are true he made it a condition of his staying that this was sorted out immediately.
Something has not gone right and it doesn't seem to be a marginal thing but where the problem lies I am at a loss to suggest. But I'm sure others will fill in the gaps.
So are you suggesting that they are all lying Mike because they can't say how bad it is? Surely saying nothing would give a better message? And THEY are all lying?
And. we've both been around this club for a number of years, NONE of it would get out? Seriously? The place leaks like a sieve!!
And. we've both been around this club for a number of years, NONE of it would get out? Seriously? The place leaks like a sieve!!
Re: whether DN spending time with the seconds was the right thing, I suppose the ultimate answer to that may not come for another two or three years?
It might depend whether the improvements in the seconds which appear to have begun to lead to improvements of the young players when they play in the firsts are sustained over time?
It might also be that DN was specifically asked to work a lot with the seconds as part of his brief... in which case if it wasn't the best idea then those that set the brief will need to look at themselves.
It might depend whether the improvements in the seconds which appear to have begun to lead to improvements of the young players when they play in the firsts are sustained over time?
It might also be that DN was specifically asked to work a lot with the seconds as part of his brief... in which case if it wasn't the best idea then those that set the brief will need to look at themselves.
Back to this control from somewhere else theory AG? The man IS the DIRECTOR of cricket. Why do you assume he is directed by someone else in his job? Who is this person who gave him this brief? Brian Rose? Vic Marks? Guy Lavender?
Why suddenly are so many posters declaring that Marcus Trescothick has played a large part in the failings of the team this season?
In prior seasons, such proclamations would be tantamount to treason!
Being someone who does not get to Taunton as often as I did, what evidence has there been this season that has given credence to this line of thinking?
Is it his personal form or method of dismissal; his decisions regarding what to do after winning the toss or enforcing the follow - on; his interaction with the media; body language on the field or one of many other things?
I am curious as to why this change of feeling has come about!
In prior seasons, such proclamations would be tantamount to treason!
Being someone who does not get to Taunton as often as I did, what evidence has there been this season that has given credence to this line of thinking?
Is it his personal form or method of dismissal; his decisions regarding what to do after winning the toss or enforcing the follow - on; his interaction with the media; body language on the field or one of many other things?
I am curious as to why this change of feeling has come about!
Quote:GrockleQuote:Botham
Steve, many of the more reasoned posters have gone into 'exile'.
What absolute rubbish Botham. Name them!
I wasn't going to reply to any of your posts, as I decided that was less inflammatory, but if I must!
This was not a dig, but more a light-hearted remark that FE, SP and LoL, were unusually absent last night, so in temporary exile, as with 'Will'!
Quote:Grockle
Back to this control from somewhere else theory AG? The man IS the DIRECTOR of cricket. Why do you assume he is directed by someone else in his job? Who is this person who gave him this brief? Brian Rose? Vic Marks? Guy Lavender?
Fine, then if he's just Lord of the Manor and does whatever he wants then he will have to take the credit/blame for his decision to focus mainly on the seconds, depending on where the balance lies.
Severance Pay.....I would think that very few have had such from the club.
One obvious candidate comes to mind, who was in dispute with the club over his contract. That was resolved, yes and left a few people bitter over the matter.
Can anybody else name others that have had their contract terminated in the last five years.
One obvious candidate comes to mind, who was in dispute with the club over his contract. That was resolved, yes and left a few people bitter over the matter.
Can anybody else name others that have had their contract terminated in the last five years.
Roger, I guess Mike is just referring to the contracts the players sign, when arriving.
Yep AG I think he stands or falls on that basis.
Botham that was not at all clear, and your past record and posts this week suggested an entirely different interpretation after the return to a theme from many moons ago by you not one or two days ago.
Yes please don't reply to anything I post and please also leave me out of any post you make then your own "inflammatory" comments will also be avoided. I would be most grateful that you take the advice that has been sent your way for most of this season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:16:47:55 by Grockle.
Botham that was not at all clear, and your past record and posts this week suggested an entirely different interpretation after the return to a theme from many moons ago by you not one or two days ago.
Yes please don't reply to anything I post and please also leave me out of any post you make then your own "inflammatory" comments will also be avoided. I would be most grateful that you take the advice that has been sent your way for most of this season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:16:47:55 by Grockle.
Botham,with respect I do not think that was what Mike TA1 said.
Mutual Agreement is totally different, and we have had the odd one or two players that have left with part of their contract left. And they would not have received severance pay.
Quote:99% of people that leave the club will have to sign a none disclosure form as part of their severance pay that would include management.
Mutual Agreement is totally different, and we have had the odd one or two players that have left with part of their contract left. And they would not have received severance pay.
Where has the idea that DN spends more of his time with the seconds, than he does the first team squad.
Quote:AGod
Trouble is, Cary Castle, that there are few effective sticks with which to hit anyone - they're all (players) under contract. All safe in a job for at least one more season.
Not necessarily true at all, AG. All contracts have performance criteria included, or have you forgotten the episode with Mr. Anderson's "naughty boy" letters? They worked well, didn't they?
Is that the sort of man management you'd prefer us to return to
He has been absent from a number of home first team CC1 games, spending his time with the seconds at Taunton Vale or (I think) away with them instead
Marcus interview:
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Interviewer was obviously as frustrated as the rest of us by the sound of it.
Grizzzly
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Interviewer was obviously as frustrated as the rest of us by the sound of it.
Grizzzly
Ok Grockle if that is the case, must say I have been to all the home games, and have seen him around frequently.
Did BR not do the same, he certainly did not attend all away fixtures.
Did BR not do the same, he certainly did not attend all away fixtures.
Fascinating stuff for me as newcomer.
I like the logic of if there were deep seated problems then the Durstons, de Bruyns, Blackwells etc.would have spilt it even if not intentionally.
So you have to come back to lack of DIRECTION this season.
DN's priority of looking to the future with the 2nds is laudable and desirable long term but only the correct priority while the short term is going well.
Anyone been in management and familiar with Situational Leadership? It doesn't matter how senior, competent, experienced etc.you think your people are - you shouldn't leave them to their own devices when they're struggling and going under like MT appears to be.
With things unravelling there is only one place he should be 24/7.
If he set his own priorities then he's to blame. If they were set for him then someone else is to blame, and so is he for not getting them changed.
Just a reminder - we just needed to find out 'how to get over the line'. The seconds had little relevance to that this season.
I believe I would have accepted relegation if we had got over the line in T20 or YB40, because it would have laid demons to rest.
Now they are worse than ever.
I like the logic of if there were deep seated problems then the Durstons, de Bruyns, Blackwells etc.would have spilt it even if not intentionally.
So you have to come back to lack of DIRECTION this season.
DN's priority of looking to the future with the 2nds is laudable and desirable long term but only the correct priority while the short term is going well.
Anyone been in management and familiar with Situational Leadership? It doesn't matter how senior, competent, experienced etc.you think your people are - you shouldn't leave them to their own devices when they're struggling and going under like MT appears to be.
With things unravelling there is only one place he should be 24/7.
If he set his own priorities then he's to blame. If they were set for him then someone else is to blame, and so is he for not getting them changed.
Just a reminder - we just needed to find out 'how to get over the line'. The seconds had little relevance to that this season.
I believe I would have accepted relegation if we had got over the line in T20 or YB40, because it would have laid demons to rest.
Now they are worse than ever.
Roger Ivanhoe just like me to use the wrong word for what I was thinking, I did mean what ever agreement was made on their departure.
Quote:Frome ExileQuote:AGod
Trouble is, Cary Castle, that there are few effective sticks with which to hit anyone - they're all (players) under contract. All safe in a job for at least one more season.
Not necessarily true at all, AG. All contracts have performance criteria included, or have you forgotten the episode with Mr. Anderson's "naughty boy" letters? They worked well, didn't they?
Is that the sort of man management you'd prefer us to return to
What works with one group (or fails with one group) may or may not work with a different group.
I remember some fairly vocal criticism on here of the Yorkshire Chairman who lambasted several players after they went down. The view here seemed to be that this was a serious mistake on his part. If so, it's not shown in that club's subsequent results.
Regardless, it's still true that any threat to possibly terminate any contracts, whether on legally watertight "performance," grounds or not will still look pretty empty if the club has no real options in terms of recruitment from the outside.
I imagine that word quickly gets around the circuit (amongst players) as to which players at which clubs are out of contract and thus, potentially, available, for instance. If our guys know that nobody of quality is available anywhere else? Then our management have nothing to hang over our guys, should they wish to try the "get tough," approach.
I personally think that sometimes the rocket is called for and sometimes the carrot but I think the rocket without anything to back it up would be a serious error.
Quote:Roger ivanhoe
Ok Grockle if that is the case, must say I have been to all the home games, and have seen him around frequently.
Did BR not do the same, he certainly did not attend all away fixtures.
And BR said, when he announced his departure, Roger, that he felt that we needed a Director of Cricket who could really "get into," the first team and added that he had so many other responsibilities - including the youths and seconds that this was not possible.
When people leave employers when still in contract they will normally agree a compromise agreement with the employer. This will set out the terms and conditions of them leaving including the agreement on severance pay. If signed then it stops them making further claims on said employer. I suppose confidentiality clause could be included in such an agreement mike!!
And the words "Mutual Agreement" covers a wide spectrum. it doesn't always mean 
AG personally I think that the changes in Yorkshire's fortunes following their relegation at the end of the 2011 seaon had less to do with the very public lambasting of some of their players and more to do with the complete shake up of their coaching set up.
Although at the time Yorkshire chairman Colin Graves said relegation was a "disgrace" and "It's been down to the players on the park, nobody else" the playing staff including the capatin Andrew Gale survived and it was three or four of the coaching staff who paid the price. Martyn Moxon moved away from a day-to-day coaching role whilst Jason Gillespie was brought in.
Although at the time Yorkshire chairman Colin Graves said relegation was a "disgrace" and "It's been down to the players on the park, nobody else" the playing staff including the capatin Andrew Gale survived and it was three or four of the coaching staff who paid the price. Martyn Moxon moved away from a day-to-day coaching role whilst Jason Gillespie was brought in.
Well I have also been to a number of consecutive home games during the middle of the season Roger when DN was not present because he was with the seconds at Taunton Vale for most of the day. He was also working with the seconds but was rarely working with the firsts who he left mostly to Andy and his team.
It was mentioned in the press box more than once during at least one of the CC1 games but it was assumed to be some kind of 'master plan'.
Sorry this seems to have come as a surprise Roger. It has been discussed on here in quite some detail during the earlier season. You are not the only one to see it as a little strange
It was mentioned in the press box more than once during at least one of the CC1 games but it was assumed to be some kind of 'master plan'.
Sorry this seems to have come as a surprise Roger. It has been discussed on here in quite some detail during the earlier season. You are not the only one to see it as a little strange
They can also agree to cancel the contract if both parties agree which is what happened to Blackwell I think!!!
Ronnie I don't think I will go there, don't get me going again on Blackwell departure. there were so many things said at the time of his leaving.
That being the case Grockle, it would be the responsibility of his superior to change things, if he felt that DN needed to devote more time with the first team squad.
Unless he was given a free hand.
But The buck stops at the top.
Unless he was given a free hand.
But The buck stops at the top.
DN should surely not have needed telling he needed to spend more time with 1st team given the speed of the unravelling?
Even if that was his original brief,(which I doubt given 'getting over the line') he as a senior manager should be capable of arguing for the change even if he didn't feel strong enough to make the change on his own.
With big bucks goes accountability.
Even if that was his original brief,(which I doubt given 'getting over the line') he as a senior manager should be capable of arguing for the change even if he didn't feel strong enough to make the change on his own.
With big bucks goes accountability.
"But The buck stops at the top."
But, who is the person or persons "at the top" Roger?
But, who is the person or persons "at the top" Roger?
Ah CP - now you have hit the nail on the head and asked the question at the very root of all of our problems !!
CP, take your pick, not sure myself to be honest. The only full time paid officer being GL I suppose.
Officers:
President Roy Kerslake
Chairman Andy Nash
Vice Chairman David Gabbitass
Honorary Treasurer Malcolm Derry
Chief Executive Guy Lavender
Cricket Chairman. Vic Marks
Officers:
President Roy Kerslake
Chairman Andy Nash
Vice Chairman David Gabbitass
Honorary Treasurer Malcolm Derry
Chief Executive Guy Lavender
Cricket Chairman. Vic Marks
Quote:Mike TA1
Roger Ivanhoe just like me to use the wrong word for what I was thinking, I did mean what ever agreement was made on their departure.
That was how I interpreted your post, Mike, but maybe didn't explain it any better.
Quote:Roger ivanhoe
CP, take your pick, not sure myself to be honest. The only full time paid officer being GL I suppose.
Officers:
President Roy Kerslake
Chairman Andy Nash
Vice Chairman David Gabbitass
Honorary Treasurer Malcolm Derry
Chief Executive Guy Lavender
Cricket Chairman. Vic Marks
Well, Roger, it won't be the President, Vice Chairman, Hon. Treasurer or Chief Executive will it?
I accept that sport these days is more and more 'corporate' but at the end of the day it was on the cricket field it was going wrong, not SCCC Plc.
Right back in DN's court in my book. 'Director of Cricket'.
Right back in DN's court in my book. 'Director of Cricket'.
Rodders: why wouldn't GL want what we all want?
If I interpret you correctly you are suggesting GL had enough power to stop DN to do what was blindingly obviously needed.
Is that what you are saying?
If I interpret you correctly you are suggesting GL had enough power to stop DN to do what was blindingly obviously needed.
Is that what you are saying?
The club gave the job to DN.not being privvy to what control he exactly had on first team matters but I would say if I was director of cricket and didnt have joint control along with the captain I'd be off.Me thinks the fitness "sarge" has more than him,....well he has to to justify his position. Having said that I do wonder if appointing a DoC with none or very little experience of English cricket was a mistake.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:19:40:16 by averageside.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:10:19:40:16 by averageside.
Guy is the only one with authority there. Roy pumps hands and gives counsel and that is it, Andy and David are figureheads, the treasurer keeps the books and during the season Vic has two other jobs that take up all his time. So.... Guy L is your man. It was always Richard G more than Giles and Andy and that is how it is now.
Quote:stevecav
DN should surely not have needed telling he needed to spend more time with 1st team given the speed of the unravelling?
Even if that was his original brief,(which I doubt given 'getting over the line') he as a senior manager should be capable of arguing for the change even if he didn't feel strong enough to make the change on his own.
With big bucks goes accountability.
For what it's worth, DN said on the official site (I think it was) and also on Facebook (I think) when he joined that he had a really "big," role and made it clear that he was talking about the breadth of the role and his responsibilities.
No Steve I am not saying that at all. I am just agreeing with Grockle ( rare I know ) that GL is the one with the real power.
What he does with it and why is another matter altogether !
What he does with it and why is another matter altogether !
I would firstly like to know if Mr Nosworthy will be in the northern hemisphere for the months of October to February?
Is he on a 12 month contract which dictates he works from Taunton or do we allow him to return home for 6 months over the winter?
Does anyone actually know? We can all speculate for days but does anyone know for a fact if he will be here?
Given the huge flack he will get should we get relegated I can quite see him relinquishing his position of his own accord.
He is a foreigner in our country, he has no loyalty as such to us yet. If he feels things are not working and feels he is very much unwanted he may feel that uprooting his family and having to rectify the mess we are in is too much for him?
I am just speculating as I do not know the man at all or what his mentality is, will he relish the challenge.
Rightly or wrongly he is certainly a very easy scapegoat for many giving how consistently strong we have been for the prior 4 or 5 years before his arrival.
Is he on a 12 month contract which dictates he works from Taunton or do we allow him to return home for 6 months over the winter?
Does anyone actually know? We can all speculate for days but does anyone know for a fact if he will be here?
Given the huge flack he will get should we get relegated I can quite see him relinquishing his position of his own accord.
He is a foreigner in our country, he has no loyalty as such to us yet. If he feels things are not working and feels he is very much unwanted he may feel that uprooting his family and having to rectify the mess we are in is too much for him?
I am just speculating as I do not know the man at all or what his mentality is, will he relish the challenge.
Rightly or wrongly he is certainly a very easy scapegoat for many giving how consistently strong we have been for the prior 4 or 5 years before his arrival.
I hope he stays, I hope he's given time to show what he can do....this was a side he inherited, there is no way the man can be blamed for this season's debacle.
I agree BJ, the responsibility lies elsewhere. And he has also inherited the coaching staff. Let's hope that the person who has the responsibility to sort this out is not one who is culpable. However the Club seems to have a byzantine management structure that needs simplifying, and which, as many posts here testify, appears to obscure where responsibility lies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:11:09:34:30 by North Berwick John.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:11:09:34:30 by North Berwick John.
Is the management structure really Byzantine? Isn't it broadly comparable to many similar organisations? Or am I missing something?
Well, I estimate that there about 5 levels down to head coach, Nash - Marks - Lavender - Nosworthy - Hurry. I don't understand the Kerslake President role, but I am assuming that he largely represents the supporters' interests on the Board. This seems to me to be overly complicated or extended from my own experiences in industry.
Yes, DN did inherit the current set-up.
But this isn't akin to a football manager being called in to clean-up after Alan Ball has "managed," a club.
Club had been doing well in the CC since promotion.
So if everybody is drawing the inference that the non-Nosworthy coaches are not up to the job and/or the players simply not good enough and therefore it can't be DN's responsibility?
What that logically suggests is that Brian Rose must have been so amazingly brilliant (to have produced success in spite of the coaching staff/players) that we better beg him to come back, forthwith.
The above is a bit TIC but that's the logic of the idea that DN should escape any responsibility for this season's events.
But this isn't akin to a football manager being called in to clean-up after Alan Ball has "managed," a club.
Club had been doing well in the CC since promotion.
So if everybody is drawing the inference that the non-Nosworthy coaches are not up to the job and/or the players simply not good enough and therefore it can't be DN's responsibility?
What that logically suggests is that Brian Rose must have been so amazingly brilliant (to have produced success in spite of the coaching staff/players) that we better beg him to come back, forthwith.
The above is a bit TIC but that's the logic of the idea that DN should escape any responsibility for this season's events.
I doubt that Lavender reports directly to Marks. If I am right, I see nothing unusual about the structure. Surely, the head coach should report to the DoC and the DoC should report to the most senior executive officer?
I assume that, as Grockle has indicated earlier, the President is not part of the management structure. I doubt that his role is to represent supporters' interests, as such.
I assume that, as Grockle has indicated earlier, the President is not part of the management structure. I doubt that his role is to represent supporters' interests, as such.
I think that a reasonable question for any of the top management is what do they consider that they have achieved (not done, but achieved) this year. There is no implication in this that any or all would be found wanting. But I think this is the right question to ask in any context.
Quite so, Wickham. And it is, of course, much more difficult to answer.
I almost always know what I have done: it is often much more difficult to be certain of what, if anything, I have acheived!
I almost always know what I have done: it is often much more difficult to be certain of what, if anything, I have acheived!
I assume Marks and his committee have some input into cricketing decisions.
I suppose if we’re honest then the reality is that we had a good run with a particular group of players.
They were brought together, initially, by Brian Rose, and moulded and motivated by Justin Langer and then the baton was passed on to Tres.
This group produced a lot of good cricket and were a very good side in all forms of the game but certainly not a great one because great sides win things.
For a variety of reasons we have failed to adequately refresh this side, due to a combination of a lack of signings from outside and a failure to develop enough young players quickly enough to take on the roles of fading and/or departed older players.
The question now is whether we have the right man at the helm to produce a very good side, as Brian Rose did, and whether we need new impetus from outside the club in the Captain’s chair, such as that received from Langer?
They were brought together, initially, by Brian Rose, and moulded and motivated by Justin Langer and then the baton was passed on to Tres.
This group produced a lot of good cricket and were a very good side in all forms of the game but certainly not a great one because great sides win things.
For a variety of reasons we have failed to adequately refresh this side, due to a combination of a lack of signings from outside and a failure to develop enough young players quickly enough to take on the roles of fading and/or departed older players.
The question now is whether we have the right man at the helm to produce a very good side, as Brian Rose did, and whether we need new impetus from outside the club in the Captain’s chair, such as that received from Langer?
You would have to say that the club are being very successful, as a business, with increased membership figures, large crowds for 1 day matches and excellent catering sales. No idea about the hospitality side of things, but if all these aspects stay the same or better then season will be judged a success.
Should memberships decline, then there will be an issue, but I suspect T20 will still be a success.
The on-field stuff is fairly irrelevant, to this successful business.
Should memberships decline, then there will be an issue, but I suspect T20 will still be a success.
The on-field stuff is fairly irrelevant, to this successful business.
Quote:You're quite right, the only reason I travel 400 miles at considerable cost is to see a well run business, the quality of the cricket on view is totally irrelevant.Botham
You would have to say that the club are being very successful, as a business, with increased membership figures, large crowds for 1 day matches and excellent catering sales. No idea about the hospitality side of things, but if all these aspects stay the same or better then season will be judged a success.
Should memberships decline, then there will be an issue, but I suspect T20 will still be a success.
The on-field stuff is fairly irrelevant, to this successful business.
Supporters don't support a "business."
Not many would turn up to watch rubbish cricket (or not cricket at all if it's truly irrelevant) just to eat great cakes!
Not many would turn up to watch rubbish cricket (or not cricket at all if it's truly irrelevant) just to eat great cakes!
But equally, there is a small but significant danger that we would soon be watching "no cricket at all" if we were not run soundly as a business.
Balance people; balance.
Balance people; balance.
In your system NBR Neither Andy Nash or Vic Marks have anything but nominal 'power' to affect decisions. They may tell the world what they are, they may even not agree with them and say so but they have no real physical ability to change them.
Guy Lavender is the CEO if you like, Dave Nosworthy is the head of Division (in this case cricket) and Andy Hurry is the Departmental head (coaching), there will be section heads below him for fitness, batting, bowling and whatever.
Seems a pretty normal busines heirachical structure to me.
Guy Lavender is the CEO if you like, Dave Nosworthy is the head of Division (in this case cricket) and Andy Hurry is the Departmental head (coaching), there will be section heads below him for fitness, batting, bowling and whatever.
Seems a pretty normal busines heirachical structure to me.
Except, so far as we know, there are no specialist coaches for either batting or bowling.
But there are plans to extend into those areas and we do have heads of conditioning etc. So the point of this post was?
Are there plans?
I've not heard that we have plans to appoint such people?
If we have announced any such plans (or you have heard of them through reputable sources)?
GOOD.
(the point of the post was that maybe we have rather too many 'whatever,' section heads and not enough of certain other things that may be needed)?
I've not heard that we have plans to appoint such people?
If we have announced any such plans (or you have heard of them through reputable sources)?
GOOD.
(the point of the post was that maybe we have rather too many 'whatever,' section heads and not enough of certain other things that may be needed)?
Well according to you we don't have enough whatever section heads - bowling, batting eyc.
If you have heard no plans to appoiont new specialist coaches have you heard the names of other 'whatever' departments that the rest of us don't know about?
Or are you just assuming they exist because they would paint the organisation in a bad light while discussion of useful departments wouldn't and therefore must be discounted?
If you have heard no plans to appoiont new specialist coaches have you heard the names of other 'whatever' departments that the rest of us don't know about?
Or are you just assuming they exist because they would paint the organisation in a bad light while discussion of useful departments wouldn't and therefore must be discounted?
I happen to think that there is a strong case for specialist batting and bowling coaches. But this doesn't detract from Grockle's point, which I had made earlier, that the hierarchical structure seems pretty normal.
"But there are plans to extend into those areas ......"
That is news to me as well, so can we assume that it is simply hearsay on your part?
That is news to me as well, so can we assume that it is simply hearsay on your part?
Quote:Grockle
Well according to you we don't have enough whatever section heads - bowling, batting eyc.
If you have heard no plans to appoiont new specialist coaches have you heard the names of other 'whatever' departments that the rest of us don't know about?
Or are you just assuming they exist because they would paint the organisation in a bad light while discussion of useful departments wouldn't and therefore must be discounted?
No, the "whatever," was your term so I was assuming that you knew of other things that we did have or may have. I believe we do have a psychologist so that would be one department, but I do not know of others.
Quote:AGod
....the point of the post was that maybe we have rather too many 'whatever,' section heads and not enough of certain other things that may be needed)?
NO dear boy 'whatever' sections was your term not mine. I just used it instead of etc. YOU turned it into sections.
Oh dear we have been on the animal stomach diet today haven't we.
Quote:Grockle
It's 'hearsay' if you want it to be CP. Knock yourself out.
"Knock yourself out."
That's a new one - even coming from you, Grockle.
Nope, Grockle, but you've been on something today - apparently imagining "plans," to appoint specialist coaches, "advice," to leave Meschede out etc...
Tripe just keeps on coming. You're on a roll today - put some of the tripe in it, make yourself a sandwich
Don't need them just have to log on and read the stuff you post on a semi regular basis if I want a surreal experience.
Your turn if you really want to keep this petty idiocy going.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:11:17:47:44 by Grockle.
Your turn if you really want to keep this petty idiocy going.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:11:17:47:44 by Grockle.
Anthony Gibson on BBC Radio Somerset's coverage of the match today, suggested that changes to the coaching set up are likely to occur over the winter - specifically specialist batting and bowling coaches to help younger players.
In reply to Grockle and Wickham's interesting comments on my earlier posts, as a long distance supporter I would genuinely like to know what are the actual responsibilities of the Cricket Committee, and what are the demarcation lines between those of the DOC and the Head Coach.
In reply to Grockle and Wickham's interesting comments on my earlier posts, as a long distance supporter I would genuinely like to know what are the actual responsibilities of the Cricket Committee, and what are the demarcation lines between those of the DOC and the Head Coach.
Well it's not a surprise to me NBR - seems to be to others some of whom seem to think that possibility is some kind of hallucination. (Maybe it was the tripe that was a little past its sell by date AG you certainly seem to be on something strange today).
I'd love to also know the same NBR - I always wonder how Vic can be on said committee when he seems to have two other semi full time jobs that take up the majority of his time. Certainly Roy K has only ever struck me as the sensible cricket brain who will discuss the club in general terms and add his considerable knowledge to the debate rather than determine policy and operate day to day activity.
I'd love to also know the same NBR - I always wonder how Vic can be on said committee when he seems to have two other semi full time jobs that take up the majority of his time. Certainly Roy K has only ever struck me as the sensible cricket brain who will discuss the club in general terms and add his considerable knowledge to the debate rather than determine policy and operate day to day activity.
Could reading this site have/will put them thinking in the right direction regarding specialised coaches?
I think what Anthony Gibson said on air was that he thought changes 'should occur.'
And he made the point that young players, in particular, could benefit from specialist coaching as they 'may have major technical issues that need addressing.'
And he made the point that young players, in particular, could benefit from specialist coaching as they 'may have major technical issues that need addressing.'
And we all know, of course, that young players having their techniques scrutinised, disassembled and re-built to fit some perceived model only ever has positive consequences.
That's right isn't it?
Shall we ask Jimmy Anderson?
That's right isn't it?
Shall we ask Jimmy Anderson?
Gibson was making the point that certain players - he was mentioning Gregory and Meschede - have not developed as quickly as (he thought) the club would have hoped.
I have no idea whether anyone at the club had given him reason to think that nor whether he's had indications from within the club that we WILL actually be changing the coaching set-up.
I got the impression that some of what he was saying had been taken from the opinions of former players - he mentioned Caddy - and I think Mark Davis has also made this point.
I think, FE, that the really good coaches know not to mess too much with a player who is enjoying great success. But when players are still trying to make their way in the game but haven't yet enjoyed great success things may be different?
But Gibson's point was that he thinks that the young group of players have a ton of raw potential that has not yet been adequately harnessed. Again, no idea whether that's just his personal view or if he's got that viewpoint from anyone within the club.
I have no idea whether anyone at the club had given him reason to think that nor whether he's had indications from within the club that we WILL actually be changing the coaching set-up.
I got the impression that some of what he was saying had been taken from the opinions of former players - he mentioned Caddy - and I think Mark Davis has also made this point.
I think, FE, that the really good coaches know not to mess too much with a player who is enjoying great success. But when players are still trying to make their way in the game but haven't yet enjoyed great success things may be different?
But Gibson's point was that he thinks that the young group of players have a ton of raw potential that has not yet been adequately harnessed. Again, no idea whether that's just his personal view or if he's got that viewpoint from anyone within the club.
Quote:I think, FE, that the really good coaches know not to mess too much with a player who is enjoying great success. But when players are still trying to make their way in the game but haven't yet enjoyed great success things may be different?
I wish (and this is almost certainly the first, and will probably be the last, time I have said, or will say this) I had your faith!!!
I might well be wrong but good coaching of proven players should presumably involve not much more than taking a 'snap-shot' (or series thereof) of what they are doing, technically, during periods of success and then monitoring them technically to ensure that they do not deviate too far from what works best for them?
I'd have thought a good coach would monitor these things and raise it with the player if obvious deviations creep in - BEFORE a spell of poor form descends on the player.
Obviously there will also be other elements such as psychological work and, perhaps, specific adjustments to deal with certain problematic opponents.
But wholesale re-organisations of the techniques of successful players strike me as lunacy.
Of course, we all know about the trying to change Jimmy's head position fiasco to which you allude. But I'd have thought that stories like that should be a salutary warning to other coaches. After all what could be worse for the reputation of a professional coach than the rep of having ruined the form of a successful player!?
I'd have thought a good coach would monitor these things and raise it with the player if obvious deviations creep in - BEFORE a spell of poor form descends on the player.
Obviously there will also be other elements such as psychological work and, perhaps, specific adjustments to deal with certain problematic opponents.
But wholesale re-organisations of the techniques of successful players strike me as lunacy.
Of course, we all know about the trying to change Jimmy's head position fiasco to which you allude. But I'd have thought that stories like that should be a salutary warning to other coaches. After all what could be worse for the reputation of a professional coach than the rep of having ruined the form of a successful player!?
Is it really the young players we should concentrate on educating to bat properly.
Or the older players who seem to have forgotten how to do so ?
Grizzzly
Or the older players who seem to have forgotten how to do so ?
Grizzzly
Gosh, when did a simple game of bat and ball become so over analysed and complcated
No - he'll fall on his sword before September is out, despite the fact we'll have stayed up. Then Micky Arthur will turn his back on Div. 2 Surrey and join us instead. Then after defeats in the first two CC games in 2014, he'll set "homework", which Tregs and three of the youngsters will fail to submit on time...........
Tee hee.......
Tee hee.......
Botham: SP was on holiday - just back and catching up - and keen to follow a victory today, from afar 
Sorry, but where's Average side when you really want him?
[williamblessing.blogspot.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:15:06:49:36 by WilliamBlessing.
[williamblessing.blogspot.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:15:06:49:36 by WilliamBlessing.
Quote:Frome Exile
And we all know, of course, that young players having their techniques scrutinised, disassembled and re-built to fit some perceived model only ever has positive consequences.
That's right isn't it?
Shall we ask Jimmy Anderson?
That was poor coaching. Personally I'd say it's far easier to dismantle a batting technique and revamp that successfully. It's similar to a golf swing and how that can be changed to either avert or prevent injuries or simply to adjust for the increasing age of the golfer. A bowling action is far more complex and it's nowhere near as easy to dismantle as a batting technique.
When I was at uni, I remember a Worcestershire bowler who had to change his action after major back problems. Muscle memory came up in discussion and it was put forward that he'd need to repeat the new action some 3,000 times for the muscles to commit it to memory and 20,000 times for the full complex action to be in there. 20,000 repetitions... you're talking over 3,000 overs. Even the basic retention to muscles of 3,000 repetitions means that new bowling action would have to be done 3,000 times, meaning 500 overs. Now doing that for a changed batting technique means a lot of hours against a bowling machine. For a bowler to change, it means a lot of seriously hard work over a huge period of time.
With Anderson, trying to change the whole technique was the wrong approach but coaching has undoubtedly helped him to become the attack leader. Allan Donald and Otis Gibson have much to be praised for as has David Saker.
Stumbled across this earlier
[">www.youtube.com]
What a great sight to remember a pitch invasion of the welcome variety, sad to think that will not happen again.
I remember that day well, only atmosphere to have beaten it was the home Semi v Surrey, Caddick getting Stewart lbw was the biggest noise you will ever hear at HQ.
Shame this years semi final crowds were not a patch on days like that.
[">www.youtube.com]
What a great sight to remember a pitch invasion of the welcome variety, sad to think that will not happen again.
I remember that day well, only atmosphere to have beaten it was the home Semi v Surrey, Caddick getting Stewart lbw was the biggest noise you will ever hear at HQ.
Shame this years semi final crowds were not a patch on days like that.
40 over competition really did not have a lot of cache. Not sure the 50 over will either.
Thanks wsm - that's the first time I've seen those last three wickets.
That was the day I made my most stupid decision ever, whilst awatching SCCC.
Kent were romping to victory at 330'ish for six, so I made a hasty exit to beat the traffic.
Great decision............!
Grizzzly
That was the day I made my most stupid decision ever, whilst awatching SCCC.
Kent were romping to victory at 330'ish for six, so I made a hasty exit to beat the traffic.
Great decision............!
Grizzzly
It was a quite phenomenal day. There was dancing in the Stragglers that afternoon!!!
Yep, cracking day indeed.
Simon Francis run out on his back was some effort.
Not sure next year 50 over competition will reach such heights, T20 has well and truly taken over as the premier one day tournament in the calendar, however much some more traditionalists may more enjoy the 50 over format.
I fear the 50 over crowds next year will be very poor, peoples attention span and busy lives does not lend itself to 10.30 - 6.00pm cricket watching anymore. We will see I guess...
Simon Francis run out on his back was some effort.
Not sure next year 50 over competition will reach such heights, T20 has well and truly taken over as the premier one day tournament in the calendar, however much some more traditionalists may more enjoy the 50 over format.
I fear the 50 over crowds next year will be very poor, peoples attention span and busy lives does not lend itself to 10.30 - 6.00pm cricket watching anymore. We will see I guess...
50 over group draw for next year to be made at todays final interval.
Still unsure of format, days?
Is it 3 groups of 6?
Is it not on Sundays anymore?
Presumably open draw so no guarantee of any local games?
Still unsure of format, days?
Is it 3 groups of 6?
Is it not on Sundays anymore?
Presumably open draw so no guarantee of any local games?
Tresco on Sky com's at the Lords final.
Getting stick from Nasser already for his form this year.
Getting stick from Nasser already for his form this year.
Well he isn't going to have much to argue about is he. maybe next time he scores a century he should point to the number on his back.
wsm - I think most CC games next season are meant to start on a Sunday so assume 50 over cricket will be mainly either Thur or Sat with T20 on Friday evenings - so probably Thur for 50 over stuff?
Not great spectating weather in London today.
Not great spectating weather in London today.
I think Sunday starts are only for half of the season? Not for all 16.
But yes I think there will be many midweek 50 over games which I fear will be lucky to get 4 figure crowds for the majority of counties, even us.
But yes I think there will be many midweek 50 over games which I fear will be lucky to get 4 figure crowds for the majority of counties, even us.
I reckon they'd rekindle interest in the one day competitions if the matches were aired on mainstream television, bring back that special, cup-final day sort of feeling.
S4C can do it BJ with Crofty doing the commentary in Welsh. Maybe CH5 would be interested.
I know it won't happen anytime soon, though things may get a little more interesting with BT entering the fray.
Crofty commentating?
No chance, he'll be too busy coaching the county.
Crofty commentating?
No chance, he'll be too busy coaching the county.
Then S4C are knackered. He was the only member of the Glamorgan side who could speak fluent Welsh.
One of the greatest finishes of all time. I was there but it wasn't me who took my shirt off.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Somebody obviously thought the crowd deserved a sight of my magnificent physique.
On a more uplifting note, what a joy it was to hear Don Shepherd on the radio yesterday. He's 86 and has all the wisdom and understanding of that age but he sounds about 50.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
On a more uplifting note, what a joy it was to hear Don Shepherd on the radio yesterday. He's 86 and has all the wisdom and understanding of that age but he sounds about 50.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
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