Somerset
The Red Pill stuff - 'The Championship but not as we know it
By Grockle et al
April 3 2021
So we move towards the start of a second strange 4 day season with COVID still floating about the place, keeping supporters from the grounds and the first class counties operating in this regional 'Bob Willis Cup' version of a competition. It isn't the CC1 and we go into it with -8 points to our name but what can we expect to see at Lord's next week to take on Middlesex? Is the man on the front page ready? Are we stocked up to take another punt at getting some 4 day silver after coming so close again in the truncated 2020 'season'?
Somerset have shown their 'wares' over the last week or so giving everyone a look at the squad for the red ball version of the game for the 2021 campaign. It isn't the County Championship no matter how many media people call it that, it may be what the ECB would like it to become but we have to hope that once COVID is a dim memory and the crowds are back we will return to something we recognise as the true Championship in 2022. Cross all those digits people!
The county have spaces in the first eleven you would say are nailed on.
Opener - Tom Lammonby After his breakout season last year and with the confident messages coming from the backroom at Taunton there is little doubt that Tom L will open our season
Captain - Tom Abell (at 3) There was never any doubt who would be the club captain and it is pretty much certain he will be the first change in the batting order. There may be questions about his white ball role but there is not real doubt that he has made the number 3 slot his as long as we have opening options.
James Hildreth (at 4) totally nailed on. No doubt whatsoever.
Steve Davies (keeper at 6) The fact that Banton has not taken the gloves at all during the friendlies and the tweet from Steve on Friday about the reasoon he was not playing in the Glamorgan game suggests that the minor surgery aside he will be keeping at Lord's
Lewis Gregory (at 7) Our batting all rounder who has had a good winter, looks solid and ready after some re-modelling. The friendlies have got him back into some kind of nick because he did look rusty and a little more solid than usual at the end of March.
Craig Overton (at 8 and taking the new ball) The core of our seam attack and the reason we were in the Bob W Final last September. We will be there if he has a good season and we need him to stay fit for that reason.
Josh Davey (at 9 based on the phenomenal end of the first innings against Glamorgan. Craig's new ball partner) Another major reason for our success last season and the opening pair partner because of the 'newbie' tag still on Marchant de Lange as a Somerset man and the lack of confidence that Jack Brooks is ready for the first eleven yet.
Marchant de Lange (at 10 and first change bowler). MdL looked better in the Glamorgan game, less rusty and more the threat we want him to be than against Worcestershire. It will all be a bit new for him and he is probably a change bowler rather than a new ball man. To be fair, we don't need him with the new ball attack we already have. He needs to take the Jamie O option but with more experience and nounce perhaps.
That is a definite 8, the maiin questions are who will be the other 3 players?
Which other opener? This debate links to the second question Who bats at 5?
There are four early options for these two places based on last year's sides and it will probably only relate to these at the start. Will Smeed may become an option at a later date but at first we have to decide from Tom Banton, Eddie Byrom, George Bartlett and Ben Green who all had a shot at the front end during the 2020 season. Ben Green is not quite asking enough questions of the others yet to be the choice. His time will come and he gained considerable confidence in the second half of last season but I don't expect him to be in early I'm afraid.
Tom Banton is the first name that comes to mind. The young England prospect has put his money on the 4 day game rather than the white ball versions and all credit to him for that. Many will think he is a certain Somerset red ball batsman but he has little pedigree in it and his name is known for the shorter format heroics. However, he is a precocious talent with more shots than you would ever need and is presently looking very good in the opening slot against Glamorgan at Taunton.
For me he is still weaker against a good new ball bowler and therefore I think he will play but at number 5 where he can exploit the older ball and put a county attack to the sword if the base set themselves. At number 2 he is a gamble, if he clicks we could fly, if he doesn't Abell is in too early and we are liable to collapse.
Who to open then? I think they will go with Eddie Byrom based on performance in the early friendlies. If Lammonby is the replacement for Banger then Eddie would be a good partner. I would go a different way. George Bartlett for me has shown what he can do in positions where his county need him and for me he is the perfect partner for a dynamic Lammonby. He was unlucky to get a dodgy LBW decision in his one run out this week and I have no idea where the coaches stand but he is my other top 5 batsman though I do not expect to see him next week. He will come later. For me George is the longer term replacement for James Hildreth and we need all the solidity we can get as soon as possible.
Finally. Who is the other bowler? In early April you don't see a lot of sides going with spin. So do we have a fourth seamer? Well Ollie Sale is out for at least half a season and possibly longer. Kasey Aldridge was walking around with a boot on after toe surgery (I think) during this week. Jack Brooks? Well he isn't quite ready for me. He looked very rusty against Worcestershire, he looked better at the end of the week but still not quite 'match sharp'. Has he done enough to justify starting? I don't believe so and as promising as Sonny Baker and Ned Leonard were in the pre-season I think it is too early for them to be 'blooded'.
It's spin then. Lewis Goldsworthy also had a run out in the pre-season and will have a job to do with bat and ball this year. However, we have pure gold in this department as Jack Leach is back in the squad and I expect him to be the last man on the team sheet for next Thursday - more because he isn't a gamble rather than the Lord's track will give him anything particularly.
Middlesex opener squad?
Lammonby, Byrom (Bartlett for me), Abell(c), Hildreth, Banton, Davies(wk), Gregory, Overton C, Davey, de Lange, Leach
We will see I suppose but the side has to hit the ground running because of the 8 point deficit and the shorter competition format with lots of games in a short period of time. We don't do this very well and the batting MUST turn up this season. We can't continue to rely on our tail and bowling unit to keep us in games after poor first innings performances. So whoever plays MUST turn up and get down to the job in hand. At least we have replacements!!
Welcome to 2021 one and all.
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StumbleuponThe Red Pill stuff - Stage 1 Middlesex Lord's Thursday
Discussion started by Grockles.com , 03/04/2021 17:23
Grockles.com
03/04/2021 17:23
03/04/2021 17:23
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:13:11:37:58 by Grockle.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:13:11:37:58 by Grockle.
Tough call re selection for sure, especially who opens with Lammers.
On balance, I'd go for Tom Banton, with George at number three and the skipper at five:
1) Tom L.
2) Tom B.
3) George
4) Hildy
5) Tom A.
6) Steve
7) Lewis
8) Craig
9) MDL
10) Josh
11) Jack
Echo Grockle's thoughts re top order runs. Never easy at this time of the year anyway, but would be great to get off to a good start by putting plenty on the board.
Whatever happens, there's a fair bit of 'biffing' talent lower down the order !
Wonder what this years roller coaster will bring ?!
Grizzers
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:04:02:43:38 by Grizzers.
On balance, I'd go for Tom Banton, with George at number three and the skipper at five:
1) Tom L.
2) Tom B.
3) George
4) Hildy
5) Tom A.
6) Steve
7) Lewis
8) Craig
9) MDL
10) Josh
11) Jack
Echo Grockle's thoughts re top order runs. Never easy at this time of the year anyway, but would be great to get off to a good start by putting plenty on the board.
Whatever happens, there's a fair bit of 'biffing' talent lower down the order !
Wonder what this years roller coaster will bring ?!
Grizzers
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:04:02:43:38 by Grizzers.
Having made a ton on this ground, last time out, Eddie Byrom should surely be the choice for me.
I think Banton should be made to fight his way into the XI.
Tom L
Eddie
Tom A
Hildreth
Bartlett
Davies
Gregory
Cove
Josh
MDL
Leachy
IF, however, a combo of pitch conditions make it look like it's going to hoop around corners, then one could consider going in without MDL and adding Banton to try to lengthen the batting line-up further, in which case he would slot in at seven, for me.
(if you think it's going to hoop around, then you ought to be able to bowl MIddx out fairly quickly - within 65 overs or so) in which case 3 main seamers, plus the two Toms should be fine.
I think Banton should be made to fight his way into the XI.
Tom L
Eddie
Tom A
Hildreth
Bartlett
Davies
Gregory
Cove
Josh
MDL
Leachy
IF, however, a combo of pitch conditions make it look like it's going to hoop around corners, then one could consider going in without MDL and adding Banton to try to lengthen the batting line-up further, in which case he would slot in at seven, for me.
(if you think it's going to hoop around, then you ought to be able to bowl MIddx out fairly quickly - within 65 overs or so) in which case 3 main seamers, plus the two Toms should be fine.
Tom L
Eddie
Tom A
Hildreth
Bartlett
Davies
Cove
Gregory
Josh
MDL
Leachy
Agree Agod, especially as there are niggles in some of the bowlers, one has hardly run let alone bowled in over a month and Eddie has red ball experience with 100s to his name. sadly the 2nds will not though provide good opportunity to improve on technique in April.
Eddie
Tom A
Hildreth
Bartlett
Davies
Cove
Gregory
Josh
MDL
Leachy
Agree Agod, especially as there are niggles in some of the bowlers, one has hardly run let alone bowled in over a month and Eddie has red ball experience with 100s to his name. sadly the 2nds will not though provide good opportunity to improve on technique in April.
I hope this morning doesn't make any decisions and the choice is based on overall perFormance and pre season form.
There may be a consideration to lengthening the batting line up.and there are optons available to get all three B's into this side
The friendly selections haven't really considered George at 3 but I wouldn't have any problem with that personally
It will be interesting at the start of the season but whoever plays has to produce results
There may be a consideration to lengthening the batting line up.and there are optons available to get all three B's into this side
The friendly selections haven't really considered George at 3 but I wouldn't have any problem with that personally
It will be interesting at the start of the season but whoever plays has to produce results
Tom L
Eddie
Tom A
Hildreth
Bartlett
Banton
Davies
Cove
Gregory
Josh
MDL
Probably gone against the grain here but with freezing temperatures forecast for the weekend I cannot really see Jack getting much of a bowl, so 4 seamers plus the two Toms for me, and hopefully enough batting to put at least 350 on the board.
Eddie
Tom A
Hildreth
Bartlett
Banton
Davies
Cove
Gregory
Josh
MDL
Probably gone against the grain here but with freezing temperatures forecast for the weekend I cannot really see Jack getting much of a bowl, so 4 seamers plus the two Toms for me, and hopefully enough batting to put at least 350 on the board.
Ben Green,Jack Brookes and Lewis Goldsworthy in the seconds squad today.
One can probably assume that Roelof will make up the 13 in the squad at Middlesex.
One can probably assume that Roelof will make up the 13 in the squad at Middlesex.
Yes. As suggested Ben and Lewis may get their opportunity later in the season while Jack needs all the overs he can get presently.
If the weathet takes Leachy out if the equation then shoe horning RvdM in as a bowling/batting option would be a possible.
However one would assume getting the 3B's in might take priority. It probably should.
If the weathet takes Leachy out if the equation then shoe horning RvdM in as a bowling/batting option would be a possible.
However one would assume getting the 3B's in might take priority. It probably should.
BBC weather currently forecasting highs of 8-9C at the weekend !
The players supply of sweaters and long johns will need to be abundant.
Grizzers
The players supply of sweaters and long johns will need to be abundant.
Grizzers
Yep snowing in Durham and Shetlands closing down transport systems according to Bagpuss retweet.
According to the MCCC site the live stream is only available to their members.Let’s hope that this is not the case, as it wouldn’t be sending out the right signals during the current period.
This afternoon ‘s email seems to imply that it’s available from the Match Centre on our website.
Middlesex have named the following fourteen-man squad:
Stephen Eskinazi (captain)
Martin Andersson
Ethan Bamber
Blake Cullen
Jack Davies
Steven Finn
Nick Gubbins
Tom Helm
Max Holden
Tim Murtagh
Sam Robson
Toby Roland-Jones
John Simpson (wicket-keeper)
Robbie White
Stuart Law was indicating Robson and Gubbins would be their only spin options, and is expecting a seaming wicket so will be interesting to see if we go with the same option.
What are the toss rules this year. The same as last year?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:07:18:23:45 by nelliec.
Stephen Eskinazi (captain)
Martin Andersson
Ethan Bamber
Blake Cullen
Jack Davies
Steven Finn
Nick Gubbins
Tom Helm
Max Holden
Tim Murtagh
Sam Robson
Toby Roland-Jones
John Simpson (wicket-keeper)
Robbie White
Stuart Law was indicating Robson and Gubbins would be their only spin options, and is expecting a seaming wicket so will be interesting to see if we go with the same option.
What are the toss rules this year. The same as last year?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:07:18:23:45 by nelliec.
I’ve been supporting Somerset since 1970. An excellent squad for the opening match and I suspect the line up will be :
Tom L
Tom B
Tom A
Hildy
George
Steve
Lewis
Craig
Josh
MDL
Jack L
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:08:02:39:37 by Devonboy70.
Tom L
Tom B
Tom A
Hildy
George
Steve
Lewis
Craig
Josh
MDL
Jack L
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:08:02:39:37 by Devonboy70.
Yep. The only possible change would be the one discussed above and on the frontpage
Just want the batting to fire this year.
Just want the batting to fire this year.
Eddie and RvdM miss out.
Tom Banton goes in at 2. George at 5. Jack Leach plays
Tom A wins the toss and Middlesex will bat
Craig O opens with the number 7 on his back but goes for 13!!
Other new ball bowler is Josh Davey
We're Back!!!!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:08:11:15:52 by Grockle.
Tom Banton goes in at 2. George at 5. Jack Leach plays
Tom A wins the toss and Middlesex will bat
Craig O opens with the number 7 on his back but goes for 13!!
Other new ball bowler is Josh Davey
We're Back!!!!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:08:11:15:52 by Grockle.
Appalling miss from Hildreth. Track not looking that “sporty,” so I suspect that may cost us very dear.
and breath, things are returning to normal sooner than i expected but we are up and running.
Robson looking good so far.
Robson looking good so far.
We shall need their slip cordon to be as generous as ours, one imagines.
I think LG has bowled quite well.
I think LG has bowled quite well.
Icy fingers in April one hopes.... Bowlers have pulled it back a bit after a loose-ish start. Tied Robson down and kept Eskanazi honest as the 100 arrives.
2. It was for 2.
And, sadly, it’s still for 2.
We’re up against it thanks to those twin drops of Robson. Unless we can get a flurry of wickets soon then Middx will be very firmly in the box seat.
And, sadly, it’s still for 2.
We’re up against it thanks to those twin drops of Robson. Unless we can get a flurry of wickets soon then Middx will be very firmly in the box seat.
Hello Cricket. Is this the earliest day we've been back? Probably not the coldest, I remember a freezing opening match against Essex at Taunton a few seasons ago. What fortunes will this season bring, a golden ticket to the end of season Bob-ble hats at Lords? With spectators? And more immediately, are we a fielding first team now?
I don’t really see these as 150/3 conditions. Our bowlers have mustered 5 wicket taking balls and I think 150/5 is about what one would expect in these conditions. A lot of work still to do.
Me neither - bitterly disappointing.
Looks very much as though this is Middx’s game to lose already.
Looks very much as though this is Middx’s game to lose already.
Yep he's geting movement which is good but Middlesex finding runs more easily than we would have hoped. Already facing an important session sfter Tea.
Much more of a contest between bat and ball, as it should be. Too many dodgy wickets last year which favoured the bowlers, this seems more of a typical county game of the past.
Still alive and supporting gang and good to see some familiar posters also still around ! Not the weather for slip catches I fear !!
Less of a 'winter' and more of a 'hibernation' this year Rodders. Hope you are well and raring to go....
As the counter at the top of the page says, it's 4 days short of a year since we expected to turn up for a Championship game and it is probably the other side of 400 days until we do it properly in Taunton again.
While looking into this I did another bit of investigation.
Around about the 30th of August 2021, Grockles will have been online for 10,000 days taking an early April 1994 date as the first real frontline report. I have a bit more research to do when I get home and have a look at some of the old files but that is around the date.....
As the counter at the top of the page says, it's 4 days short of a year since we expected to turn up for a Championship game and it is probably the other side of 400 days until we do it properly in Taunton again.
While looking into this I did another bit of investigation.
Around about the 30th of August 2021, Grockles will have been online for 10,000 days taking an early April 1994 date as the first real frontline report. I have a bit more research to do when I get home and have a look at some of the old files but that is around the date.....
Yep they've let Robson get away from them today I'm afraid.
One of the commentators seems to think the 'Bob Willis Trophy' is;
a) The County Championship
b) Has been around for the 'last 5 years'
Not the BBC team I ought to add
Oh dear
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:08:17:20:29 by Grockle.
One of the commentators seems to think the 'Bob Willis Trophy' is;
a) The County Championship
b) Has been around for the 'last 5 years'
Not the BBC team I ought to add
Oh dear
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:08:17:20:29 by Grockle.
Right back in the game! Rap them up for under 300 and I would say honours even and over to the batters to tilt it our way.
I think they are likely to end up a good 50-75 runs above par (I think par is 240-250 or so)
If we'd taken our catches of Robson, we'd surely be ahead of the game, even though we've not really been at our best with the ball.
The weather forecast is very poor for Saturday.
IF SCCC manage to bat decently tomorrow, and then the forecast is slightly wrong on Saturday, so that it's just miserable and freezing cold but not actually raining, then that could be a day to climb back into the game with the ball in the MIddx 2nd innings.
If we'd taken our catches of Robson, we'd surely be ahead of the game, even though we've not really been at our best with the ball.
The weather forecast is very poor for Saturday.
IF SCCC manage to bat decently tomorrow, and then the forecast is slightly wrong on Saturday, so that it's just miserable and freezing cold but not actually raining, then that could be a day to climb back into the game with the ball in the MIddx 2nd innings.
Winkling out a wagging tail at the end of Day 1 of a season? Been there done that.. eventually
Deja vu anyone?
Deja vu anyone?
Gregory's done well with the new ball but the tail is certainly hanging around.
A little behind where I'd hoped we'd be but good to see Covid has not affected the if's, but's and maybe's in any way.
Over to the batting tomorrow in an effort to not make this a Deja vu of the last few seasons.
Over to the batting tomorrow in an effort to not make this a Deja vu of the last few seasons.
We can but hope.
How many do people reckon for 5?
I'd like to go 3 figures and leave it as vague as that.
How many do people reckon for 5?
I'd like to go 3 figures and leave it as vague as that.
200 would be nice.
But, on the form of past seasons then I fear that something more like 135 might prove on the mark.
But, on the form of past seasons then I fear that something more like 135 might prove on the mark.
Well if we are evens at the halfway stage we may see that as the best we can hope for. Though we won't know until both sides bat as usual
Don’t think we’re a team others fear . Poor this morning what I saw really poor just an extension of the pre season we served up really
I'm fine for sides to not treat us with respect. Always better when we aren't favourites.
I can't see any logical reason to fear any current English County side, GGG.
Let's face it, when the history books write the list of great county/state/provinical sides, it is very, very unlikely that any side competing in the 2021 CC will be among their number!
I mean there's not exactly a team out there that reminds one of the Transvaal Mean Machine, with Jimmy Cook, Graeme Pollock, Clive Rice, Garth Le Roux and Vince Van Der Bijl!
Let's face it, when the history books write the list of great county/state/provinical sides, it is very, very unlikely that any side competing in the 2021 CC will be among their number!
I mean there's not exactly a team out there that reminds one of the Transvaal Mean Machine, with Jimmy Cook, Graeme Pollock, Clive Rice, Garth Le Roux and Vince Van Der Bijl!
Maybe so AG but no one will be scared of playing against this team . Esp now we aren’t able to orepare spinning wickets
If they aren't scared then let's see how they are after facing us.
As AG says, there are few sides in this competition to be worried sbout so we won't be scared either. Equal footing at the start. The object is to come out on top of the opposition.
If there is no fear then cultivate it
As AG says, there are few sides in this competition to be worried sbout so we won't be scared either. Equal footing at the start. The object is to come out on top of the opposition.
If there is no fear then cultivate it
But that would be a normal start to the summer with a 50 for Cove and 30 odd from Jack and Josh.
Don't you ever fancy something a little different?
Don't you ever fancy something a little different?
Here is the link to my First Day Report on this match:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
I was looking to set up a second front page for this game but given the events of the Day 2 first session there seems little point.
We shall see how the rest of Day 2 pans out. Ho hum
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:14:29:30 by Grockle.
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
I was looking to set up a second front page for this game but given the events of the Day 2 first session there seems little point.
We shall see how the rest of Day 2 pans out. Ho hum
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:14:29:30 by Grockle.
Well Lewis has a 5 fer so there's a ray of sun in the early morning and then Cove closes them down at 313 with Roland Jones LBW.
Surprise, surprise, as soon as we go out to bat, we make it look impossible.
Looking like a very heavy defeat here unless there’s a massive turnaround.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:12:15:24 by AGod.
Looking like a very heavy defeat here unless there’s a massive turnaround.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:12:15:24 by AGod.
A long debate about who should be at the front end.
Lammonby unlucky I think.but here we are again... New season same old story. 15 for 3
Lammonby unlucky I think.but here we are again... New season same old story. 15 for 3
It's nice to be back, but not to see the usual top order issues. Having said that, Lammonby looked very unlucky to me - I've replayed it many times and it looks like there was clear daylight between the inside edge of bat and ball and any noise, that convinced the umpire, was the ball flicking the top of the pad for me.
We might lose this match today at this rate.
Hildreth already owes us about 130 runs due to the dropped sitter of Robson. Without that (given the runs also scored at the other end whilst Robson was in) Middx wouldn’t be completely out of sight.
However, it also has to be said that Middx have comprehensively outbowled us so far, as well.
A very sobering start to the season with an overwhelming defeat apparently in the offing.
Hildreth already owes us about 130 runs due to the dropped sitter of Robson. Without that (given the runs also scored at the other end whilst Robson was in) Middx wouldn’t be completely out of sight.
However, it also has to be said that Middx have comprehensively outbowled us so far, as well.
A very sobering start to the season with an overwhelming defeat apparently in the offing.
Surrey doing as badly as us, with Jamie Overton and company being thrashed all over Bristol, at the present time.
Of note?
Surrey seem to have no more interest in giving Jamie Overton the new ball than Somerset had.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:13:00:30 by AGod.
Of note?
Surrey seem to have no more interest in giving Jamie Overton the new ball than Somerset had.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:13:00:30 by AGod.
We managed to start well last season... but the start was in July or August.
Somerset batsmen and early season batting conditions are a match made in hell.
Somerset batsmen and early season batting conditions are a match made in hell.
Is the follow on at -200 or -150?
Though as Gregory wafts and we go to 83 for 7 I'm not sure it makes any difference.
Before Tea on Day 2 and we are praying for rain!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:14:26:02 by Grockle.
Though as Gregory wafts and we go to 83 for 7 I'm not sure it makes any difference.
Before Tea on Day 2 and we are praying for rain!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:14:26:02 by Grockle.
We have no established opening batsmen at the club.
Lammonby had a very good month last August, but is so so young & his youth was in the middle order. It may work superbly but he needs time.
Byrom has had various chances over the years then we appeared to suggest his future was in the middle order.
We have tried Green but not sure he is a red ball long term opener.
Banton has a moderate red ball history & again appears best suited in the middle order.
We have tried Davies but its not feasible at 34 (or any age) to keep & open.
Abell was an opener moved to 5 but now as skipper appears settled at 3.
We have recognised our top 3 issues in recent years employing Rogers Renshaw Azhar Vijay Wade.
Yet this year we have for whatever reason not done so.
Overseas are everywhere in county cricket NOW. To say it's not possible to find one i dont think washs.
We either feel we dont need one 🤔🤔
Or cant afford one (which we would never say)
Or we really cant find one which has to ask questions of those doing the looking.
Lammonby had a very good month last August, but is so so young & his youth was in the middle order. It may work superbly but he needs time.
Byrom has had various chances over the years then we appeared to suggest his future was in the middle order.
We have tried Green but not sure he is a red ball long term opener.
Banton has a moderate red ball history & again appears best suited in the middle order.
We have tried Davies but its not feasible at 34 (or any age) to keep & open.
Abell was an opener moved to 5 but now as skipper appears settled at 3.
We have recognised our top 3 issues in recent years employing Rogers Renshaw Azhar Vijay Wade.
Yet this year we have for whatever reason not done so.
Overseas are everywhere in county cricket NOW. To say it's not possible to find one i dont think washs.
We either feel we dont need one 🤔🤔
Or cant afford one (which we would never say)
Or we really cant find one which has to ask questions of those doing the looking.
Correct, WSM. I suspect that we simply don’t have the money to hire anyone.
I don’t buy that we don’t believe we could acquire somebody who is a better bet at the top of the order than Tom Banton!
I don’t buy that we don’t believe we could acquire somebody who is a better bet at the top of the order than Tom Banton!
Does it wsm? Who would you have bought from the domestics available? Is there one kicking his heels?
They seem to have hoped for Babar but then not looked elsewhere. To be fair Lammonby is extremely promising and was definitely unlucky today.
Experience is not always a 'banker'. We persisted with Banger for a couple of seasons when we probably shouldn't have.
When do you blood the young? Do you queue them and hope they stay? We have a whole new top 5 waiting and maybe we ought to think about Davies up the order - we've tried it before.
1 batsman isn't going to solve this and I'm not sure what there svailable is that fits and solves this issue.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:14:39:49 by Grockle.
They seem to have hoped for Babar but then not looked elsewhere. To be fair Lammonby is extremely promising and was definitely unlucky today.
Experience is not always a 'banker'. We persisted with Banger for a couple of seasons when we probably shouldn't have.
When do you blood the young? Do you queue them and hope they stay? We have a whole new top 5 waiting and maybe we ought to think about Davies up the order - we've tried it before.
1 batsman isn't going to solve this and I'm not sure what there svailable is that fits and solves this issue.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:14:39:49 by Grockle.
Tom Banton is NOT a new ball opener. He should be coming in wuth the shine off. Lammonby should open with experience or with Bartlett or Byrom from the youngsters. What about Goldsworthy?
Seems presently wasted batting for the seconds?
Seems presently wasted batting for the seconds?
Does it what?
An overseas batter yes "could" help a lot.
Lammonby opening with a Amla Rogers Azhar type would benefit him no end surely.
If it means Banton George Eddie etc have to fight over spots dont we want/need competition.
I have no idea what was or wasnt available over the winter.
Many on here & social media throw names around like confetti but have no idea on the internal available domestic market. Lots happens behind the scenes none of us ever see or hear.
We have an overseas spot NOW we arent utilising.
Davies is not a sensible option to open. Its not fair to feild for 80/100/120 overs then gave him 10mins to go out and open. Especially 7 weeks running back to back.
If you want to blood Young Smeed Goldsworthy fine but you/we then cant complain by the minute if we arent winning games.
An overseas batter yes "could" help a lot.
Lammonby opening with a Amla Rogers Azhar type would benefit him no end surely.
If it means Banton George Eddie etc have to fight over spots dont we want/need competition.
I have no idea what was or wasnt available over the winter.
Many on here & social media throw names around like confetti but have no idea on the internal available domestic market. Lots happens behind the scenes none of us ever see or hear.
We have an overseas spot NOW we arent utilising.
Davies is not a sensible option to open. Its not fair to feild for 80/100/120 overs then gave him 10mins to go out and open. Especially 7 weeks running back to back.
If you want to blood Young Smeed Goldsworthy fine but you/we then cant complain by the minute if we arent winning games.
A year with no relegation and where we are starting on a minus total anyway, might well be one where we end up blooding more youngsters, the moment that we consider ourselves out of contention for this championship.
With the way our batting is, limited pace bowling depth, and a heavy defeat in the first game seemingly imminent - I fear that it’s possible that we’ll find ourselves out of serious contention fairly early in the piece.
With the way our batting is, limited pace bowling depth, and a heavy defeat in the first game seemingly imminent - I fear that it’s possible that we’ll find ourselves out of serious contention fairly early in the piece.
Leachy and MDL showing that, if the top order had been even slightly less feeble, then the follow-on could probably have been avoided.
Your last sentence of the post WSM suggests the issue may cause us to ask questions of staff looking for options for opener.
I simply asked does it?
You don't know what was available. I certainly don't and we've been here before when people demanded changes without providing any feasible options for that change.
In a time when there are 2 international slots you might have hoped for a batsman. I don't know what the present situation is so criticism can only be speculative as far as the scout/hiring and firing situation is concerned. Andy Hurry avoided specifics last week. Hopefully that was for good reasons.
I'm not complaining 'by the minute'. I've been here many times before and in a season with no relegation I'm happy to see them sort out the top 6 taking into account Hildreth and Davies being at the back end of careers and a whole bunch of possibles being available.
Don't make Steve keep if you want him to open. We have other keepers and it would not be the first time he has given up the gloves for the bat. He is our best but its pretty pointless having him keeping if we have no score to defend.
Can you alternate keepers in a game? Then do it.
It's endless really. We possibly have more chance to sort it now for the medium and long term than at other times.
Unfortunately prospects don't make a batting order until we put faith in them and maybe this is the year for that faith.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:15:49:47 by Grockle.
I simply asked does it?
You don't know what was available. I certainly don't and we've been here before when people demanded changes without providing any feasible options for that change.
In a time when there are 2 international slots you might have hoped for a batsman. I don't know what the present situation is so criticism can only be speculative as far as the scout/hiring and firing situation is concerned. Andy Hurry avoided specifics last week. Hopefully that was for good reasons.
I'm not complaining 'by the minute'. I've been here many times before and in a season with no relegation I'm happy to see them sort out the top 6 taking into account Hildreth and Davies being at the back end of careers and a whole bunch of possibles being available.
Don't make Steve keep if you want him to open. We have other keepers and it would not be the first time he has given up the gloves for the bat. He is our best but its pretty pointless having him keeping if we have no score to defend.
Can you alternate keepers in a game? Then do it.
It's endless really. We possibly have more chance to sort it now for the medium and long term than at other times.
Unfortunately prospects don't make a batting order until we put faith in them and maybe this is the year for that faith.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:15:49:47 by Grockle.
You know that opening partnership?
MdL and Jack Leach for me!! Follow on sorted with 6 into stands
MdL and Jack Leach for me!! Follow on sorted with 6 into stands
Excellent 50 for the new boy...50 at more than a run a ball. And then its over.
Jack 28 not out. Well done guys
Jack 28 not out. Well done guys
Fun ended now.
Back to doing a rain dance unless we can suddenly bundle Middx out for 60 or something ! (Even then I wouldn’t put too much money on us!)
Back to doing a rain dance unless we can suddenly bundle Middx out for 60 or something ! (Even then I wouldn’t put too much money on us!)
In all honesty, Grockle - in a red ball game, I’d sooner have Leachy open than I would Tom Banton. I’m not even joking.
You have to have a stubborn, parient batsman in your pair. Jack has more going for him than either Tom in that aspect.
Get Bants in with the ball older. He's there to smoke it, not work the shine off it.
Get Bants in with the ball older. He's there to smoke it, not work the shine off it.
Looking at that batting scorecard doesn't make happy viewing.
Sincerely hope we don't revert to our pre 2020 habit of not waking up until mid June.
Grizzers
Sincerely hope we don't revert to our pre 2020 habit of not waking up until mid June.
Grizzers
Given the capitulation of our top order , not for the first time either . Are we simply not good enough as a red ball batting top order and is it time we started bringing in other talent from outside the county ?
Our batting has proven itself lacking over a number of seasons, Devonboy.
But I’m not sure that there are any better players out of contract elsewhere, nor am I sure we can afford to make any new signings either, after the Andrew Cornish debacle.
But I’m not sure that there are any better players out of contract elsewhere, nor am I sure we can afford to make any new signings either, after the Andrew Cornish debacle.
In a year of uncertainties, the one thing I would happily have put money on would have been that Somerset wouldn't wipe out their championship points penalty by the accumulation of early season batting points.
We've been here before, many, many times.
We've been here before, many, many times.
The ongoing problem with employing an overseas player is the length of availability during our seasons, seems pointless to me to go for an overseas unless they are available for the full season, or the whole of a given tournament.
Attracting a top player from another County also brings it problems with the unfounded opinions pushed by the media that they now need to play for a city based County to attract attention from the England selectors (Jack being the exception)
I do not have the answers, but that is what Andy Hurry and Jason Kerr are being paid good money for.
Attracting a top player from another County also brings it problems with the unfounded opinions pushed by the media that they now need to play for a city based County to attract attention from the England selectors (Jack being the exception)
I do not have the answers, but that is what Andy Hurry and Jason Kerr are being paid good money for.
'Talent' from where Devonboy?
And who do we release?
Which of Lammonby? Byrom? Bartlett? Green? Banton?
Do we then close the Academy and live off other people's cast offs for as long as they exist? Then what?
Somerset policy has been Develop locally, buy where necessary and kolpak if nothing else.
If you want to buy in then who are the TWO made to measure domestic batsmen plus international who are ready for us to drop in?
Do we tell Goldsworthy, Smeed and the two young keepers to start looking for 2022
We need one person to establish and we build on that. I'm all for that being an import but what is the point of developing talent if you don't have patience with it?
When has buying batting in worked? Compo is the only 1 I can think of other than single season internationals.
Before Nick... Zander? Before him? Harden?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:17:44:46 by Grockle.
And who do we release?
Which of Lammonby? Byrom? Bartlett? Green? Banton?
Do we then close the Academy and live off other people's cast offs for as long as they exist? Then what?
Somerset policy has been Develop locally, buy where necessary and kolpak if nothing else.
If you want to buy in then who are the TWO made to measure domestic batsmen plus international who are ready for us to drop in?
Do we tell Goldsworthy, Smeed and the two young keepers to start looking for 2022
We need one person to establish and we build on that. I'm all for that being an import but what is the point of developing talent if you don't have patience with it?
When has buying batting in worked? Compo is the only 1 I can think of other than single season internationals.
Before Nick... Zander? Before him? Harden?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:09:17:44:46 by Grockle.
In response to Grockle’s post . When was the last time we signed a home based batsman from another county, and therein lies the problem. Does the County even consider looking or is the academy now the sole focus . Of the 5 batsmen you have mentioned in my opinion only Tom B and Tom L are unquestionably the real deal . George and Eddie can do the business but perhaps only irregularly and as regards to Ben Green I can’t say I’m convinced .
I suspect Green is in the last chance saloon, in that either he has to make a decisive break into the first team this season, or he has to make way for new people coming from the Academy.
The question isn't 'when' (I think it must have been Nick Compton. Do we include Steve Davies?) but more 'who'.
Where and who were these saviours looking for other counties?
Why do counties develop Academies? Because the market of domestic options and the 'always available' loan player simply don't exist in quantity.
I'd love to see an investigation into the list of in form experienced batsmen available to counties domestically in the last decade.
It would be interesting reading
Where and who were these saviours looking for other counties?
Why do counties develop Academies? Because the market of domestic options and the 'always available' loan player simply don't exist in quantity.
I'd love to see an investigation into the list of in form experienced batsmen available to counties domestically in the last decade.
It would be interesting reading
You are probably right about Ben AG. I'm still not sure Eddie will ever be anything but the occasional surprise in a line up. We are most definitely a Chris Rogers, Dean Elgar, Alviro Petersen, Azhar Ali, Babar Azham short but I don't see the rest as an issue.
More of an order problem. Who bats at 1, 3 and 5? Where do you use Steve Davies?
For me roughly Marcus = Lammonby, Hildreth = Bartlett, Davies = Banton and RvdM/Bess = Goldsworthy. Add Will Smeed and we have a promising batting line-up ..... IF....... But it isn't 'quick fix April' I'm afraid.
More of an order problem. Who bats at 1, 3 and 5? Where do you use Steve Davies?
For me roughly Marcus = Lammonby, Hildreth = Bartlett, Davies = Banton and RvdM/Bess = Goldsworthy. Add Will Smeed and we have a promising batting line-up ..... IF....... But it isn't 'quick fix April' I'm afraid.
Well, one innings isn't a good base on which to make decisions, but as has been highlighted by others on this thread, the top order batting has been an issue for years & I'm not really sure we have a clear strategy moving forwards.
Fwiw, I'd toy with trying the following top six:
1) Tom Lammonby
2) SD ? (Yes, it's asking an awful lot).
3) Bartlett - would like to see him given an opportunity to show he can pin down this position.
4) Hildreth (Smeed idc hopefully).
5) Tom Abell (simply to provide stability & bolster the middle order).
6) Tom Banton ? (Could bat in pretty well any position I guess).
Not sure an overseas player is a realistic option, on grounds of cost and likely (un)availability for any extended period anyway.
Ho-hum. As Bagpuss says, we have been here many times before.
Grizzers
Fwiw, I'd toy with trying the following top six:
1) Tom Lammonby
2) SD ? (Yes, it's asking an awful lot).
3) Bartlett - would like to see him given an opportunity to show he can pin down this position.
4) Hildreth (Smeed idc hopefully).
5) Tom Abell (simply to provide stability & bolster the middle order).
6) Tom Banton ? (Could bat in pretty well any position I guess).
Not sure an overseas player is a realistic option, on grounds of cost and likely (un)availability for any extended period anyway.
Ho-hum. As Bagpuss says, we have been here many times before.
Grizzers
Many many times... we debated the order in the days of Buttler and Keiswetter, Compton, de Bruyn, Langer and MT, Burns, Suppiah and Durston, Bowler, Lathwell...... and many others in between over the last decades.
You look back at the wealth of batting talent the county has generated and you wonder what caused the problems.
Nearly always it was inconsistent form and order
Can anyone point to a time when Somerset's top 6 picked itself and performed? I'm struggling from my near on 30 years.
You look back at the wealth of batting talent the county has generated and you wonder what caused the problems.
Nearly always it was inconsistent form and order
Can anyone point to a time when Somerset's top 6 picked itself and performed? I'm struggling from my near on 30 years.
The issues and solutions lie with DOC, he allows players to be abroad and miss pre season, he claims the batting is good enough and there is no need for an overseas. A lack of money has not been used as a reason to employ an overseas. There was no evidence that Tom Banton should open.
All questions should be directed at the management!
All questions should be directed at the management!
Well that IS where the buck stops.
A white ball opener is not necessarily a red ball opener but some struggle with that concept
A white ball opener is not necessarily a red ball opener but some struggle with that concept
Quote:Grockle
Can anyone point to a time when Somerset's top 6 picked itself and performed? I'm struggling from my near on 30 years.
Taking a look back, our top six from1995 was pretty strong:
1) Lathwell
2) Trescothick
3) Bowler
4) Harden
5) Hayhurst
6) Turner
But they didn't get as close to winning the Championship as our current players, so maybe nostalgia isn't everything !
Come on lads. Better effort 2nd innings please.
Grizzers
Mark didn't fire often enough and Marcus worked at becoming a bowler for a while.
Andy Hayhurst was ignominiously removed. Loved Richard Harden and 1 year Rob Turner was unstoppable before being ignored for a winter by the Stewarts while they gave him a joint captaincy of the A team with Mark Alleyne.
The same year Piran Holloway just couldn't stop scoring runs
There were so many of these over the years. Looked unstoppable but always were
Marcus, Graeme Smith, Jayasuriya, Hildreth, Blackwell, Trego of 2005
Getting them in the right order and in form at the same time just doesn't happen all that often.
Marcus, Justin, Compo (?) James, Craig K, Jos?
Andy Hayhurst was ignominiously removed. Loved Richard Harden and 1 year Rob Turner was unstoppable before being ignored for a winter by the Stewarts while they gave him a joint captaincy of the A team with Mark Alleyne.
The same year Piran Holloway just couldn't stop scoring runs
There were so many of these over the years. Looked unstoppable but always were
Marcus, Graeme Smith, Jayasuriya, Hildreth, Blackwell, Trego of 2005
Getting them in the right order and in form at the same time just doesn't happen all that often.
Marcus, Justin, Compo (?) James, Craig K, Jos?
Here is the link to my Second Day Report:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
And for ease of reference this is the link to my First Day Report:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
And for ease of reference this is the link to my First Day Report:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
Quote:Bagpuss
In a year of uncertainties, the one thing I would happily have put money on would have been that Somerset wouldn't wipe out their championship points penalty by the accumulation of early season batting points.
We've been here before, many, many times.
And that James hildreth would be out in the first over after a break . The guy is phenomenal at that . Easy money to be had there
Surprised not more comments. Superb out cricket this morning. Maybe my enthusiasm is coming back.
I don’t wish I was there in these temperatures however; made the performance even more praiseworthy.
Will obviously still need a really good performance with the bat
I don’t wish I was there in these temperatures however; made the performance even more praiseworthy.
Will obviously still need a really good performance with the bat
Jack and Jos give us a bit of a sniff. 6 for 16.
But in the words of Richard Sharpe "Can you stand?"
But in the words of Richard Sharpe "Can you stand?"
I didn’t see that coming. Excellent performance this morning - especially impressive from Jack Leach, given the conditions.
Over to the batsmen ...
Over to the batsmen ...
Des thats how this board woaks i'm afraid.
Doing well gives people nothing to complain about.
The correlation between posts in good sessions/days is in huge contrast to bad ones.
Doing well gives people nothing to complain about.
The correlation between posts in good sessions/days is in huge contrast to bad ones.
Been flicking between the 41 gun salute and the cricket.
A great performance this morning, well played.
An achievable target, but I fear we will rue the extra 100 or so runs that Robson got after he should have been dismissed in their first innings.
A great performance this morning, well played.
An achievable target, but I fear we will rue the extra 100 or so runs that Robson got after he should have been dismissed in their first innings.
Well, a good effort with the ball this morning, which is good to see.
However, I give us about a 0.0000001% chance of getting the runs in these conditions! (Heavily overcast, lights on etc)
Even scraping to 150 would feel like a small victory, with conditions so loaded in favour of the ball.
There’s no longer any doubt that the twin drops of Robson are the primary difference in this match.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:13:05:36 by AGod.
However, I give us about a 0.0000001% chance of getting the runs in these conditions! (Heavily overcast, lights on etc)
Even scraping to 150 would feel like a small victory, with conditions so loaded in favour of the ball.
There’s no longer any doubt that the twin drops of Robson are the primary difference in this match.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:13:05:36 by AGod.
At least Lunch is being taken - no tricky couple of overs to face beforehand.
That's how most media works wsm.... watch the evening news. Presently it won't be about healthy Royals and politicians with massive integrity.
Part of the longeivity of this site is that we DO talk about positives WHEN THEY ARISE especially about Championship cricket. (Our more negative members have hated it for years. Some don't post any more because of it)
The problem of the Somerset batting lineup however has been the bane for more than a decade and the probable reason why we are still without a County Championship
The collosal effort of our bowling unit is probably the main reason why we keep coming close which makes it all the more frustrating
Massive effort this morning from our English spinner in nothing like spin friendly conditions. "Only takes wickets in Taunton" my @#$%&!!
But also from one of the most under rated British seamers in Josh Davey who has been our diamond in the rough more thsn once in recent seasons and is a joy to watch with the ball in hand.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:13:15:15 by Grockle.
Part of the longeivity of this site is that we DO talk about positives WHEN THEY ARISE especially about Championship cricket. (Our more negative members have hated it for years. Some don't post any more because of it)
The problem of the Somerset batting lineup however has been the bane for more than a decade and the probable reason why we are still without a County Championship
The collosal effort of our bowling unit is probably the main reason why we keep coming close which makes it all the more frustrating
Massive effort this morning from our English spinner in nothing like spin friendly conditions. "Only takes wickets in Taunton" my @#$%&!!
But also from one of the most under rated British seamers in Josh Davey who has been our diamond in the rough more thsn once in recent seasons and is a joy to watch with the ball in hand.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:13:15:15 by Grockle.
How would you ask both openers to play .Gamble on their natural game particularly Tom B.
It tends to be 'Don't try and do something you don't usually'. The question possibly suggests that we do not have a presently 'natural' opening pair.
It's the old adage 'Treat every ball on its merits'
The first hour is absolutely crucial
It's the old adage 'Treat every ball on its merits'
The first hour is absolutely crucial
Good start.
Spitting with rain too (as it is here in West Sussex) - maybe the weather will come to our aid today until conditions are better for batting...
Spitting with rain too (as it is here in West Sussex) - maybe the weather will come to our aid today until conditions are better for batting...
Quote:wsm fan
Des thats how this board woaks i'm afraid.
Doing well gives people nothing to complain about.
The correlation between posts in good sessions/days is in huge contrast to bad ones.
I think cricket fans are pessimistic in general wsm fan.
Spellcheck just tried to turn you into Wasim!
It all looks ever so straightforward when you don't lose wickets, doesn't it?
By the way, I saw Leach's ma and pa out walking the spaniel this morning while he was skittling out Middx. They obviously weren't expecting that. (And just as obviously, neither was I!)
By the way, I saw Leach's ma and pa out walking the spaniel this morning while he was skittling out Middx. They obviously weren't expecting that. (And just as obviously, neither was I!)
Unlucky imho - looked to be going down leg from the feed and at full speed?
Disappointing all round Des with the poor drop of Robson - looks match defining still
Though Robson seems to be trying to make up for it with 2 2nd innings drops.
Well, hopefully that might be that for the day and then IF Tom can re-establish himself in the morning, then we might, possibly, dare to dream.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:15:34:06 by AGod.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:15:34:06 by AGod.
Off for light.
Can be a double edged sword - you don't want to be batting in poor light, but if set, then a break in play can break the concentration.
Taking Tea, which must have been due soon anyway.....
Can be a double edged sword - you don't want to be batting in poor light, but if set, then a break in play can break the concentration.
Taking Tea, which must have been due soon anyway.....
Three amateurish lbw decisions, Banton out going down, Hildreth not out which was plumb, Hildreth out going down.
Looking at it they may not be back though there are lights. A break until tomorrow at least is only one break rather than on and off on late afternoon early evening.
Impressive bowling by Leach, Overton & Josh (our future version of Darren Stevens perhaps ?!).
Tomorrow has the potential to become pretty interesting.
Grizzers
Tomorrow has the potential to become pretty interesting.
Grizzers
Yep Grockle - constantly on and off is very difficult for both sides, but mainly for the batters
Edit -4pm Raining now and covers coming on. Very grey so that is probably it for the day
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:16:01:08 by Rod1883.
Edit -4pm Raining now and covers coming on. Very grey so that is probably it for the day
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:16:01:08 by Rod1883.
Agree.Bright blue skys on a Sunday morning with a ball that’s 40 overs old is a lot more inviting,and would probably mean the game is only just in Middlesex’s favour.Would never have thought possible 24 hrs ago
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:16:40:09 by nelliec.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:16:40:09 by nelliec.
I was worried there for a moment that we might get a bit more play today. Luckily not.
Abell's innings seem like they'll be decisive. If he sticks around for the morning at least, we should be in a good spot to win.
Great bowling earlier today.
Great bowling earlier today.
Here is the link to my report on one of the more astonishing days of Somerset cricket we have wirnessed and that is saying something. Third Day Report:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
For ease of reference here are the links to my reports on the firat two days:
Day two:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Day one:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
For ease of reference here are the links to my reports on the firat two days:
Day two:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Day one:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
With 170 odd needed, one suspects we’ll need the skipper to make a big ton - 150 or so, to have a serious chance (that would imply 80 or so runs coming from the other end).
I really wish we had TG down the order, MDL’s madcap first-innings 50 notwithstanding..
I really wish we had TG down the order, MDL’s madcap first-innings 50 notwithstanding..
Well playef Tom Abell. 84. Would have been good to have seen him get 100 but he has done a skipper's job. Now bring it home please.
How can a commentator get Craig Overton and George Bartlett mixed up as he just has?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:12:37:42 by Des Platt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:12:37:42 by Des Platt.
Enthralling morning. Just wish there was so much more of this sort of cricket and played at proper times of the year
Middx have bowled well this morning and, if they’d had the good sense to post a third man, then we’d be a very long way from home.
As it is, we’re still 103 away and not finding scoring at all easy, so the hosts remain pretty big favourites.
At least our second half of the game has been considerably better than our first half. If we’d not dropped Robson twice? We’d have won this game by now!!
As it is, we’re still 103 away and not finding scoring at all easy, so the hosts remain pretty big favourites.
At least our second half of the game has been considerably better than our first half. If we’d not dropped Robson twice? We’d have won this game by now!!
Not sure we have enough left for a win here now at lunch.
One observation of comments when things are good for the side.
We are Somerset supporters. Commenting when things are going well could make things fall to bits so people tend to be loathed to chance the commentators curse
I remember times when nothing has been said when we can almost guarantee we've won a game until AFTER it has been done.
I think it has something to do with anyone who was at that specific KENT game when we won a game we were dead and buried in.
One observation of comments when things are good for the side.
We are Somerset supporters. Commenting when things are going well could make things fall to bits so people tend to be loathed to chance the commentators curse
I remember times when nothing has been said when we can almost guarantee we've won a game until AFTER it has been done.
I think it has something to do with anyone who was at that specific KENT game when we won a game we were dead and buried in.
Quote:nelliec
Craig not at all happy with that dismissal
There have been a few in this game though luckily spread across both sides.
Is it because we are now used to referrals or has the umpiring been particularly 💩?
Not been watching this morning - partly superstition, partly other chores to do.
Just watched the Craig dismissal back - he obviously didn't think he hit it and from the feed it's difficult to tell if there was a nick.
If he indeed didn't hit it then that's two poor caught behind decisions imho as I don't think Lammonby hit the ball in the first innings. Coupled with the at least one poor lbw (Banton and/or Hildreth) decision we could feel a bit hard done by.
Still a chance though with Lewis next, and if the tail can wag as it did in the first innings.....
Just watched the Craig dismissal back - he obviously didn't think he hit it and from the feed it's difficult to tell if there was a nick.
If he indeed didn't hit it then that's two poor caught behind decisions imho as I don't think Lammonby hit the ball in the first innings. Coupled with the at least one poor lbw (Banton and/or Hildreth) decision we could feel a bit hard done by.
Still a chance though with Lewis next, and if the tail can wag as it did in the first innings.....
Middlesex definitely favourites now. My rule of 250 is looking quite good. I’ve no stats to prove it but over 50 plus years of following cricket, I reckon nine times out of 10 the chasing team don’t get more than 250 to win. Very much want it to be wrong here and definitely plenty of hope still.
A win would be fabulous for GB confidence wise. Never really feel he has looked in but shown great fight.
A win would be fabulous for GB confidence wise. Never really feel he has looked in but shown great fight.
Momentum has shifted again - for good, it feels. Lewis definitely the best no. 8 in the country.
Marvellous win. Coming-of-age innings for GB. Huge confidence boost. Only negative the diabolical umpiring.
Great win, really positive cricket since lunch. Some things to work on as usual but great start.
here's to positive vibes
here's to positive vibes
My report will follow later, possibly tomorrow. For the moment I would like to claim the world record for holding my breath.
Farmer
Farmer
Terrific effort from LG to see it home. He likes this ground! Great determination from George too.
Magnificent win. This team is never beaten; they just have fantastic team spirit and you genuine Somerset men should be really proud of them.
Don’t look at Middlesex as a second division team either. Teams are new each season and they have very good cricketers. That was a brilliant win after an awful first innings performance.
Don’t look at Middlesex as a second division team either. Teams are new each season and they have very good cricketers. That was a brilliant win after an awful first innings performance.
Wow, never saw that coming after the first innings. Great performances in both the second innings.
Truly a game of two halves, and Somerset won the second one.
Great start and huge relief!
Truly a game of two halves, and Somerset won the second one.
Great start and huge relief!
Two innings cricket the finest game in the world. Pity the people who run it in this country don’t know that.
Dare I suggest that a few teams might fear Somerset now🙂
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:15:11:31 by Des Platt.
Dare I suggest that a few teams might fear Somerset now🙂
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:15:11:31 by Des Platt.
Well well.
Just caught the last couple of overs as I had been following this morning's practice of not watching - and it seemed to work! It's a shame as I would have loved to have watched, but jobs in the garden.....
Well played Abell, Bartlett and Lewis today - and the whole team for not giving up when 224 behind with 9 down first innings!
Just caught the last couple of overs as I had been following this morning's practice of not watching - and it seemed to work! It's a shame as I would have loved to have watched, but jobs in the garden.....
Well played Abell, Bartlett and Lewis today - and the whole team for not giving up when 224 behind with 9 down first innings!
Quote:Farmer White
My report will follow later, possibly tomorrow. For the moment I would like to claim the world record for holding my breath.
Farmer
Look forward to reading it Farmer White. I have the other days to catch up on too.
Quote:Whome
How can you not love this team, it’s got to be about team spirit.
That’s how I feel about them Whome. Not my native county but I just love them!
At 89 for 9, I thought that Somerset were favourites ... said no-one, ever.
I can’t remember a better fight-back. As Des says, it bears testimony to the team spirit.
This innings should give GB great confidence. As for LG, it is only his ninth first-class half-century (he also has a couple of centuries). Has he ever batted better in a first-class match?
I can’t remember a better fight-back. As Des says, it bears testimony to the team spirit.
This innings should give GB great confidence. As for LG, it is only his ninth first-class half-century (he also has a couple of centuries). Has he ever batted better in a first-class match?
One of the great wins. And at Lord's too, against Fraser's whingers.
Bartlett's going to be a Somerset legend, isn't he? He must be so annoying to bowl against - all lanky and awkward and apparently scratchy, then you look up and he's on thirty, fifty, seventy ...
And here in the garden in Taunton the sun just keeps poking through, the leaves are budding on the apple trees, the dog is snoozing on the lawn, and I've got a great big silly grin in my face.
Thanks to everyone at the Club for making it happen.
Bartlett's going to be a Somerset legend, isn't he? He must be so annoying to bowl against - all lanky and awkward and apparently scratchy, then you look up and he's on thirty, fifty, seventy ...
And here in the garden in Taunton the sun just keeps poking through, the leaves are budding on the apple trees, the dog is snoozing on the lawn, and I've got a great big silly grin in my face.
Thanks to everyone at the Club for making it happen.
Watched that and thorougly enjoyed it. I believe this win is pivotal to our season, not only for the points but also player confidence. There were many fine individual performances and surely now Blackbird all the way down the M4. In the past, I often wrote about Somerset being a bat first type of team but now need a new script. Only one thing could make this win seem even sweeter, that's the views from our good friend Tom Seymour. The cricket was too good to miss, I want to be back at Taunton as soon as I can
Bagpuss - Middx already offered LG a contract. Remember a couple of years ago? He was either going to re-sign here, or head there.
Yes, Wickham - at the end the commentators claimed that LG has been “told he must kick on with his batting.” If so? That was a very good start!
Anyone else notice the scoreboard two or three overs before the end, and Middlesex's over rate clicking over to -3?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:15:53:38 by Bagpuss.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:15:53:38 by Bagpuss.
Quote:AGod
About to rain here in London, I think.
So we got it done just in time!
Extraordinary weather round the country. You may have seen those pictures from Old Trafford today which was similar to Headingley yesterday.I ‘’ve just posted this
“Not for the first time, Lancashire could’ve played the last two days in full at Aigburth . I live 10 miles from there and we’ve had sun all day here and sun yesterday until two with just five minutes of sleet at 1700. Of course it could be different again there but weather does tend to be similar to Aigburth here. Very occasionally, it does go the other way but far more often the weather is better here in L than M/Cr
Please Emirates plc, sell off Lancashire County Cricket club.”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:16:04:03 by Des Platt.
I agree with you about George Bartlett, That Bloke. With his mannerisms at the crease, he reminds me of Derek Randall.
And George Bartlett? You need someone to stand.. George Stands.
Excellent fight in the second.
Excellent fight in the second.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Not the first time that Bartlett has starred in a successful Somerset run chase.
The above linked game took a similar course to this one too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:16:51:55 by AGod.
Not the first time that Bartlett has starred in a successful Somerset run chase.
The above linked game took a similar course to this one too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:16:51:55 by AGod.
One of the best things about this win is that so many members of the team contributed something important to the cause at some stage of the match. Obviously one or two exceptions, but they will be back due as much as anything to the team spirit that so many have spoken of.
One of the truly memorable matches - except of course that 4-day matches are so boring!!
Hallo, Jim, by the way.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:16:41:29 by Bobstan.
One of the truly memorable matches - except of course that 4-day matches are so boring!!
Hallo, Jim, by the way.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:16:41:29 by Bobstan.
Wonderful result - well done everyone and hope yet for us oldies - where are CP and are you keeping safe ?
It looks as though execrable Surrey are going to be saved, by the rain, vs Gloucs.. off for rain when a Gloucs win seemed nailed on.
That Leachy/MDL stand really did make a huge difference in the course of the match, in the end.
We need Marchant to be much more effective with the ball, going forward, though.
We need Marchant to be much more effective with the ball, going forward, though.
Back on at 5.20, so Gloucs will end up at the top of the group with Hants, with us nestled in behind (thanks only to our stupid penalty).
I believe our group is the only one to have seen results, with all 3 games producing them, whereas none of the other groups had results.
I believe our group is the only one to have seen results, with all 3 games producing them, whereas none of the other groups had results.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
The BBC seems to think there is only one group in this season's CC, and it isn't our one.
The BBC seems to think there is only one group in this season's CC, and it isn't our one.
On his record with Glamorgan de Lange will have quite a few games where he doesn't do much with the ball. Gives away a few too many runs as well. But I think we signed him for the other days, where the pitch and conditions and match position all click, and he bulldozes through a team.
If he can still make himself useful by hoicking a fifty like he did in this match, with no regard for how things have fallen apart around him, then that'll do nicely.
If he can still make himself useful by hoicking a fifty like he did in this match, with no regard for how things have fallen apart around him, then that'll do nicely.
Even without the 8 point penalty Somerset would be in third place in the group, as both Hampshire and Gloucestershire secured first innings batting points.
Simply astonishing result, which must give us immense hope for the season.
I turned the tv on to youtube this morning to see the game was over & re-wound back to find us 170 odd for five, then 190 odd for six. What a terrific last partnership to see us home by Lewis, who clearly loves Lord's and - as Wickham says - our latter day version of Derek Randall, George Bartlett.
To have won that game from being 89/9 (wonder what our odds were at that stage ?) in our first innings and after our below par fielding helped Sam Robson to 165 really is an amazing achievement.
I guess we should have some confidence in our Management as well as our players as well !
Meantime, Middlesex must be absolutely gutted.
Grizzers
I turned the tv on to youtube this morning to see the game was over & re-wound back to find us 170 odd for five, then 190 odd for six. What a terrific last partnership to see us home by Lewis, who clearly loves Lord's and - as Wickham says - our latter day version of Derek Randall, George Bartlett.
To have won that game from being 89/9 (wonder what our odds were at that stage ?) in our first innings and after our below par fielding helped Sam Robson to 165 really is an amazing achievement.
I guess we should have some confidence in our Management as well as our players as well !
Meantime, Middlesex must be absolutely gutted.
Grizzers
Bloke with Dog - I hope that De Lange’s Glamorgan record was influenced by his home games having been played on the lowest and slowest pitches in the game, at Cardiff.
I think most of his better days for Glam came away from home.
I think most of his better days for Glam came away from home.
What's that sound I hear? Is it the munching of Humble Pie!?
What a wonderful fight back. This team just doesn't know when it is beaten 😀
What a wonderful fight back. This team just doesn't know when it is beaten 😀
Evening Bobs, and everyone else, hope all is well with you all. Great to have real sport back, isn't it? Getting a bit fed up with this winter malarkey.
Looking at a few of the posts from the first days, it’s always a good idea to wait for the result before damning everyone. Did I think we’d come back & won after the 9th wicket went down in the 1st innings? Not really no, but how many times have we seen this side fight back after looking out of it? The only difference perhaps this time was that Bartlett was at the forefront of this whereas we’ve often looked to Overtons & others when he & the rest of the top order have gone.
But what brilliant entertainment though, Middlesex will be gutted & our players will believe they can always win whatever the situation
But what brilliant entertainment though, Middlesex will be gutted & our players will believe they can always win whatever the situation
In fairness posters on the Middlesex site seem to have given due credit to Somerset. There certainly appears to be a real warmth on there towards Jack and not just in this match thread. Mind you that is probably reflective of a widespread feeling among cricket enthusiasts.
In truth Brt - it’s pretty rare to see us recover from a significant first-innings deficit. This match and the 2019 game at Edgbaston (which I linked above) are the only occasions that spring to mind over the past several seasons in which we’ve managed to do it.
(Note I’m not saying that other counties do it much either - in truth it’s rare in CC1 and I don’t pay much attention to CC2).
(Note I’m not saying that other counties do it much either - in truth it’s rare in CC1 and I don’t pay much attention to CC2).
NEWSFLASH: England and Wales Cricket Board disciplinary committee to meet in emergency session tomorrow to pass motion to deduct Somerset`s current 11 championship points (19 minus 8) for cynically allowing Lord`s to prepare an early season wicket on which left-arm spinner Jack Leach took four wickets.
As an aside, does anyone know how Middlesex managed to avoid a points deduction for a slow over rate ?
(They were -3 shortly before the end I think).
Grizzers
(They were -3 shortly before the end I think).
Grizzers
Exactly grizzers . How did they? Fraser in their ear and moaning again or something ? Stinks anyway if it’s below it’s below and they should be docked or whatever the punishment is . Sure as anything we would have been !!!!
What a great win, there is nothing better than four day cricket, the only thing that come close is test cricket with several Somerset players in the team.
I have learnt over many years you can't give up halfway through a match, especially with Somerset.
I have read the Middlesex site and they have been very gracious with their posts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:12:08:47:53 by Mike TA1.
I have learnt over many years you can't give up halfway through a match, especially with Somerset.
I have read the Middlesex site and they have been very gracious with their posts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:12:08:47:53 by Mike TA1.
Quote:AGod
In truth Brt - it’s pretty rare to see us recover from a significant first-innings deficit. This match and the 2019 game at Edgbaston (which I linked above) are the only occasions that spring to mind over the past several seasons in which we’ve managed to do it.
(Note I’m not saying that other counties do it much either - in truth it’s rare in CC1 and I don’t pay much attention to CC2).
Again, this is without stats; just 50 years of observance of cricket and its patterns.It’s pretty rare in four innings cricket in general AGod that the team batting second recover from a deficit. The team batting first has a much bigger chance of recovering from a deficit and the team batting second probably has as much chance following on as recovering in a fourth innings ; hence, one of the reasons so rarely enforced I guess. What I often see is quite a few early wickets in the third innings but it is rare that the bowling team that is so far behind keep that momentum. Heads tend to go down as happened in the example below, which is what was particularly praiseworthy about Somerset yesterday as that never happened.
The first ever test match I saw in Australia at Adelaide in 91 was a typical example of that. England conceded 170 odd first-innings lead but soon had the Aussies 40 odd for four. However, as always happened in those days, Matthews came in and ground out a boring 100 and they set England 470 odd to win at which we made an astonishingly good attempt and game was drawn ; as good as it ever got for this spectator in Australia!
Just catching up on here.
Oh all ye of little faith! When will we all learn...
Great team performance to claw that back, and especially pleased for George Bartlett - his fantastic match-winning innings coinciding with his Millfield mate Josh Barton scoring a fantastic match-winning try for Coventry RFC!
Oh all ye of little faith! When will we all learn...
Great team performance to claw that back, and especially pleased for George Bartlett - his fantastic match-winning innings coinciding with his Millfield mate Josh Barton scoring a fantastic match-winning try for Coventry RFC!
Re:,Middx and over-rates:
I imagine the rule applies only to completed innings - as in ones in which the opponent is bowled out?
If points deductions were applied to innings where the batting team declares, that would allow opportunistic declarations designed to get the oppo docked points.
If that’s not the explanation, then perhaps it’s that things are judged over the whole match, not in one innings? Also, I wonder if they have been adjusted for the Covid de-contamination breaks ?(or whatever they are called)
I imagine the rule applies only to completed innings - as in ones in which the opponent is bowled out?
If points deductions were applied to innings where the batting team declares, that would allow opportunistic declarations designed to get the oppo docked points.
If that’s not the explanation, then perhaps it’s that things are judged over the whole match, not in one innings? Also, I wonder if they have been adjusted for the Covid de-contamination breaks ?(or whatever they are called)
Here, finally, after repairing a little sleep deprivation, is the link to my Final Day Report:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
And, for ease of reference, here are the links to my reports on the first three days:
Day 3:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Day 2:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Day 1:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
And, for ease of reference, here are the links to my reports on the first three days:
Day 3:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Day 2:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Day 1:
[farmerwhite.co.uk]
Farmer
So many contributed to the end result and every good bit depended on someone else to help out. For me as big a point as any was Jack's contribution - it's not just the wickets he takes, but he gives the skipper control in situations where the reducing the run rate is so important.
Old Boy!
Old Boy!
Reading your perceptive and entertaining reports has got my day off to a very good start, FW. Thank you!
Thank you Wickham. It was an almighty four days of cricket and a joy to write about, even at two in the morning.
Spot on in my book, Old Boy! A real team effort. And there was one key point in the Middlesex second innings, I thought, involving Jack Leach. Here is how I desribed it in my third day report:
"White came forward in defence to Leach’s first ball. The ball turned, took the edge of the bat and Gregory took the catch at slip. 113 for 3 had become 113 for four. The shape and nature of the game changed from that point. As the Somerset fielders celebrated Middlesex suddenly looked vulnerable. An innings that had been progressing at nearly four an over slowed to two. Eskinazi who had been responsible for most of the scoring on the third morning scored only five more runs in the next seven and a half overs before he was caught at second slip by Overton off Davey who, with Leach, had been responsible for putting a tourniquet on the Middlesex scoring rate."
From there Middlesex, who had been all but out of sight in the match, were all out within 30 more runs, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Farmer
Spot on in my book, Old Boy! A real team effort. And there was one key point in the Middlesex second innings, I thought, involving Jack Leach. Here is how I desribed it in my third day report:
"White came forward in defence to Leach’s first ball. The ball turned, took the edge of the bat and Gregory took the catch at slip. 113 for 3 had become 113 for four. The shape and nature of the game changed from that point. As the Somerset fielders celebrated Middlesex suddenly looked vulnerable. An innings that had been progressing at nearly four an over slowed to two. Eskinazi who had been responsible for most of the scoring on the third morning scored only five more runs in the next seven and a half overs before he was caught at second slip by Overton off Davey who, with Leach, had been responsible for putting a tourniquet on the Middlesex scoring rate."
From there Middlesex, who had been all but out of sight in the match, were all out within 30 more runs, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Farmer
Over rates apply to both innings and do not require completed innings. The over rate displayed on the scoreboard is the match over rate for the team, not the rate for just that innings.
It is adjusted at intervals during a session of play and is calculated by the scorers based on a required over rate of 16 per hour, with an allowance for each wicket to fall (so long as the fall of wicket does not coincide with an interval in play eg tea, or a change of innings).
However there will be other interruptions to play, such as injuries, concussion checks and now sanitation breaks that are not calculated as play is in progress. Scorers and umpires will add these allowances after the innings is over and often this will bring a team back into the black.
Middlesex's scorer has, in jest, been called their 12th man over on MTWD in the past iirc, in honour of his contribution to over rate calculations.
It is adjusted at intervals during a session of play and is calculated by the scorers based on a required over rate of 16 per hour, with an allowance for each wicket to fall (so long as the fall of wicket does not coincide with an interval in play eg tea, or a change of innings).
However there will be other interruptions to play, such as injuries, concussion checks and now sanitation breaks that are not calculated as play is in progress. Scorers and umpires will add these allowances after the innings is over and often this will bring a team back into the black.
Middlesex's scorer has, in jest, been called their 12th man over on MTWD in the past iirc, in honour of his contribution to over rate calculations.
On MTWD they were nervous straight after the game and were asking an hour after game end whether that was long enough to not see a penalty. So they were aware it was possible.
Thanks for the explanation re bowling rates Bagpuss.
It seems the degree of opacity involved in the final calculations render the number displayed on the scoreboard pretty meaningless.
Grizzers
It seems the degree of opacity involved in the final calculations render the number displayed on the scoreboard pretty meaningless.
Grizzers
I still have the pleasure of Farmer White’s day four to read . Totally agree re-Jack Leach.
In fact , both Jack and Mason Crane showed the value of playing your best spinner even in the Arctic. Meanwhile, my own county Lancashire, true to form go with the negative choice of Tom Hartley against a far more likely wicket taker in Matt Parkinson.
In fact , both Jack and Mason Crane showed the value of playing your best spinner even in the Arctic. Meanwhile, my own county Lancashire, true to form go with the negative choice of Tom Hartley against a far more likely wicket taker in Matt Parkinson.
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